Bryce Dallas Howard: Dads Are Caregivers Too

Katie catches up with her longtime friend, Bryce Dallas Howard (actress, director, filmmaker). Just in time for Father’s Day, Katie and Bryce chat about all things dads. They also discuss postpartum depression and the challenges of letting go and allowing your partner to share an equal role in child raising.

 

Crib Notes:

Dads – Documentary by Bryce Dallas Howard. Available on June 19th on Apple TV+ 

Down Came the Rain: My Journey Through Postpartum Depression - By Brooke Shields

The Mandalorian - Chapter 3: The Sin – Directed by Bryce Dallas Howard. Available on Disney+

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of My Heart Radio
and Shonda land Audio. Hi, guys, it's Katie Lows and
welcome back to Katie's Crib, the podcast for real conversations
about all things parenting. Okay, on this episode, in honor

(00:21):
of Father's Day, I am so incredibly happy to have
my friend Bryce Dallice Howard joining us to talk about
a lot of things, but in particular to celebrate extraordinary Dad's. Now,
you guys know Bryce as a massively talented actress. She
started in Rocketman, Jurassic World, Falling Kingdom, Pete Dragon, The Help,
and that amazingly incredibly terrifying Black Mirror episode that messed

(00:44):
us all up a lot, just to name a few.
She's also been super busy in the director seat. She
has a documentary called Dad's It offers a firsthand glimpse
into what fatherhood looks like today all across the globe,
and in addition to bringing me to tears like a
hoursand times while I watched it, the film is just
a very heartening picture that we don't get to see enough. Okay,

(01:06):
so we're gonna get into all that, but first I
want to take a moment to check in with all
of you. How are you guys doing? Hi, Mama's how
are you? Especially during this time, I want to hear
from you and what questions you have about what's going
on and ways that Katie's Crib can help all of
these huge, huge things that we are dealing with right now.

(01:26):
I plan to have episodes coming up where we talk
about coronavirus in pregnancy, coronavirus in toddler's We're gonna have
a pediatrician come on and talk to us as well
as a O B who specializing in coronavirus right now.
I also would love to do a whole um episode
on how to raise an anti racist kid? So what

(01:47):
do you guys think? I would love to hear your opinions.
You can email me your questions at Katie's Crib at
Shohnda land dot com. Okay, without further ado, here's my
dear friend, Bryce dallas Howard. Guys, Bryce Dallas Howard is
here for Bryce. I can't express Oh. First of all,
we have to say congratulations on graduating. Right Oh my gosh, oh.

(02:11):
Bryce dallas Hower and I went to school the arts
together at n y U. Some of the greatest memories
I have of how I formed into being a person artistically, personally, professionally, whatever,
all those things. Bryce and I got to do a
show together in college, and you are just the most
exceptional actress. Like then, now, oh my god, I used

(02:35):
to I was a small part in the play. Bryce
was the lead obviously, duh. And I just remember, like,
not small. I just remember sitting back there and just
being like, she is the most Like I just I'm
such a fan of your work. I'm so glad I
got to work with you on stage in college. I'm

(02:55):
so I'm just so glad to know you on so
many levels. And every time I get to see you,
which isn't enough, but when I do get to see
you at Hollywood functions or whatever, you just really feel
like like a safe haven of home to me. I
don't know if it's because we grew up together or
like those were such formative years. Um. Also, your then
boyfriend now husband, Seth Gable, uh was roommates with a

(03:19):
guy I was dating in college. So who just had
a baby, No way, Oh my god, congratulations, Jason Low
of course he had a girl naming He's wonderful. Jason
he's a dear friend. I love him to death. He
I dated him in college. He was best friends with Seth.
They lived together, so like Bryce and I were really

(03:41):
finding ourselves on stage in their apartment in Brooklyn, you
know all these things. Yes, we were the girlfriends, um
and you were just the first person I knew who
like got married and had kits like you were right away,
like it was you were nowhere that we were nowhere

(04:04):
near that. But like you fell in love with our
college boyfriends in a way where you were going to
be with him forever. That was not the story with
me and Jason lou Although I love you Jason Luke.
Congrats on your baby. Um Tell, did you always know
you wanted to be a mom? Yes, yes, definitely. Well,
first of all, thank you, Katie. I feel the same
as you about you, and you were just always a

(04:27):
light and always someone that I felt like I could
always just be myself with. And like I'm a little
like I mean, I'm sure I'm sure you'll you'll understand this,
Like it was like the early auts and like the
hipster movement was just like being born and like you know,
in Brooklyn and stuff and um and and I'm like,

(04:47):
was a dork now dork will always be a dork.
But it was like there were those like hipster vibes
going on, and so there was a little bit of
like everyone was like ironic and very cool and maybe
a tiny bit aloof and I just always felt with you.
I was like a kindred spirit, like someone who I

(05:10):
admire and I love and I feel just safe with
just totally safe because we were like, what are we
doing in this hip This Brooklyn apartment was so disgusting.
There was like three boys living there that you had
to get walk through each of their bedrooms to get
to a bathroom. Like it was so gross and it
was not cool Green Point Williamsburg like what it is now.

(05:33):
I mean this was twenty years ago and it was
not right. The hipster thing was just starting. But you
and Seth were the real deal. Like yeah, it worked out.
And then luckily enough, Dane who was the third It
was Dane Jason and Seth. Dane is now my brother
in law. They just had married my sister. They just

(05:55):
had their third baby. They just had a girl. Oh
my god. So the only pair that didn't get in
on getting to call Bryce a sister in law. While
that wouldn't have worked because you don't have related but
now Dane is your brother in law, which is crazy, yes,
and so fun and all of the other memory I

(06:17):
have is when we were doing the play. I remember,
first of all, I didn't even know Ron Howard was
your dad, Like I had no idea. And then I
remember we were doing the play for Saints in Mexico,
which again to go along with the whole like hipster college,
like New York twenty years ago, you know, us coming

(06:37):
off the train and like living in New York City
being you know, we were these lost It was devised theater, yes,
and we were like we thought we were making the
greatest art that has ever been created. I thought, I mean,
I'm speaking for you, but I thought we were. I
still feel to this day that's yeah. Maybe it was.

(06:57):
Maybe it was. We were. We were making very experimental
theater and it was like opening night and you were
running off somewhere and you're like, oh, just let me
know if if my family gets here, And I was like, okay,
we're sharing, are we? All the girls were one dressing
room and I was like, how well, I know it's
your family because I didn't know who's your dad's one heard,
and You're like, it's a like pack of redheads because
like your entire fan you have twin sisters who are redhead,

(07:20):
your brother's redhead, your mom and dad are redhead. And
then I was like, oh my god, I think her
dad is run Howard. Like it dawned on me at
that point. And then you got yes, and then you
got flowers delivered to the dressing room from your godfather,
Henry Winkler, And I was like, this is the most
famous person I have ever known in my entire life.

(07:41):
And she's this beautiful and she's this talent, and this
is so dumb. Ok, those are my bright style. It's
like I mean, but honestly, I have to stay just like,
given the fact that we're talking about dads and stuff,
I feel I've been so lucky in the dad department,
Like Seth is an incredible dad as my husband, but

(08:03):
even back then, like we're like eighteen and eighteen twenty
years old, like my dad my godfather, Like now like
Josh Gad is the godfather of my children. Like it's
just like, you know, just men showing up for the
women in their lives and I just always felt that
that's what I should expect. Absolutely. Did you know that

(08:25):
Seth was going to be Okay, Seth is a very
involved father. You always knew you wanted to be a mom.
It was a shock to you that you did get pregnant.
Very elite and it wasn't an easy road for you,
right to get pregnant, like you, well, I I had.
I was like, I definitely wanted to be a parent,

(08:48):
but um, Seth and I weren't married yet, and uh,
and we and I was like young, and that was like, Okay,
we're gonna do it in the future or whatever. And
simultaneously there were like some like not to go too far.
But I think like your audience convibe with this. There
was some kind of coological like complications. And there was
a moment when I thought like, oh my gosh, like
this might not be possible. Um, and so I was

(09:10):
really proactively working on kind of balancing everything and but
with no intention of getting pregnant at all. And UM
and Seth and I got married. I was doing Spider
Man three at the time, and UM had been doing
like all of these stunts and like dying, like bleaching
my hair and just all this stuff and then um,

(09:33):
and we finished shooting two days before my wedding, and
so I was just like go go go go, go, go,
go go go. And then I got married. And I
remember the morning after I got married, I woke up
and I was like, oh, I feel so nauseous. But
I didn't kind of connect the dots. And I went
on a trip with my family, um instead of like

(09:54):
a honeymoon proper honeymoon thing, and but it was super
fun and we were all on a boat, and so
I thought I was sea sick the whole time. And
then finally yep, nope, not at all. Finally got got
a test, found out I was pregnant. Um. And then
when I came home and went to the ganne coologists,
I was like eleven weeks pregnant. So I had had

(10:16):
no idea and um, And in retrospect, I'm sort of like, Okay,
that's great, because like it would have maybe like getting
married and then also being like, oh my gosh, I'm
gonna be a mom. Like it was great to be like, Okay,
that chapter is done, We're married, the wedding is out
of the way, and now now the focus is starting
a family. Together, and I was instantly ecstatic Seth when

(10:38):
I was like, I'm pregnant. He literally it was like
in a movie. He was like standing um in front
of a chair and he did the like slow sit
down and then he like went and put his hands
like up to his head and was just like in
this like like position of like defeat it. Well, he was,
so where are you twenty five four? I mean, come on,

(11:00):
a man at twenty four, that's a huge just got
married his wife's Spider Man three. Like he now he's pregnant,
Like that just seems like I mean, it's a lot. Yeah,
it's a lot. And I was like, I'm going to
be such a natural mom, Like I'm the oldest of four,
I'm the oldest of all my cousins, like a rod
a daycare, a little like years and years and years.
Wasn't any of all that kind of stuff. And and

(11:20):
then when I when I gave birth, for a myriad
of reasons, I suffered really hardcore with postpartum depression exact.
On the other hand, I had this distinct memory where
I gave birth and you know, you're like it's like
a fever dream, you know, and you're like oh maybe

(11:42):
it all this kind of stuff and then and then
they're sort of like dealing with me in the placenta.
I mean, I'm really going there right now. We talked
about a lot of vaginas. I mean, we've had sex therapist,
pelvic floor specialist, vaginas ripping. It doesn't matter like any beautiful.
It's very gorgeous, gorgeous, so like in that like period

(12:04):
of time after bird like yeah, after birth, when you're
like the placenta is happening. They gave THEO to Seth
and Seth took off his shirts so skin to skin,
and I just saw him holding cradling THEO and whispering
in his ear. Anything is possible, just again and again,
anything is possible. Anything is possible. And that wasn't something
that we like strategized together, Like this was just Seth

(12:28):
stepping into this new realm of his life. But what's
really into well, what's interesting is that I what I
realized in making Dads is that there's no right of
passage for men when they become fathers. Zero. Like as
far as my research, I mean, I couldn't find one

(12:50):
really certainly not a mainstream right of passage like say
a baby shower is for women. And so this this
lack of acknowledgment that your life is going to completely change,
I think, kind of leave men out to dry a little.
And the fact that Seth had those instincts was was

(13:10):
a gift. It's very normal, but it's not that we
always need to expect that. And the same goes for women.
And I didn't have the instincts that Seth was happening.
And I didn't. I was kind of in this existential crisis, right, yeah,
oh my god, I had you had, really bet So
how your postpartumentpression. I've read an articles out there and stuff.
It was really you had really long dark Mine was

(13:34):
only like six weeks and it started to lift and shift.
But I can remember that's when I realized I always
knew and I'm sure you did too, because we've known
Seth since he was like, this is who Seth and
Adam are. But like I always knew Adam was going
to be a very very hands on, very involved. If
it's not, then God knows, there's a lot of seventy
thirty and it's him, to be honest, like to be

(13:57):
completely frank about that, I know, Like same with Seth,
and I feel like when I came home and I
didn't connect to albeit all right away, and I was
dreaming of moving to Europe and changing my name and
I wanted a fake identity and why did I do this?
And similarly, you had said an article you called THEO
it because you didn't have any connection. I had the
same And Adam was taking the night nurse was over,

(14:19):
and Adam was like, holy funk, I got to write
down everything this person is saying, because I don't I
think I'm going to be alone in this, like I
don't think Katie is available, Like I better figure out
how to do this. Did you know when you would
postpartum depression? Did Seth really have to step up? So
here's what's super messed up, and this is why, and
this is and I did it differently the second time.
For this reason. Seth had a job that he had

(14:43):
to go to five days after THEO was born. And
we also in this sort of like we were like
in this sort of hippie dippy phase of our life.
We were like, maybe we'll have a postpartum due lah,
we can really do it all on our own. And
then the postpartum dula actually wasn't available because I went
so over and then she had another family she needed

(15:04):
to go with, and so it was just me and
and UM and THEO because Seth was gone. And it
was like that for a while and um and and
that was something that really especially at night. We eventually
because I actually had to two weeks after he was born,

(15:25):
I needed to go do press for a Spider Man
and I was like, oh my gosh, I myself, how
did I can't? It wasn't. It wasn't pretty. It wasn't
pretty at all. Um and uh, like not a good
move in general, but um, but because we hadn't kind
of like anticipated what this post like birth period of

(15:48):
time was going to be like, Seth just wasn't. He
literally wasn't physically there for quite a while. And then um,
and then I went into doing a movie when THEO
was just a few months old, and so he was
with me, and there was a caregiver with me, which
obviously made a huge difference, but I was without, I
was separate from Seth. And so it wasn't until THEO

(16:09):
was like really like six seven months old that they
were um that he was able to like fully fully
fully engaged just because they were in the same place,
and that just like having the parenting kind of everything
on me when I was going through this like total

(16:30):
just falling into a bottomless pit. It felt like was
was really confusing, and then also doing press at the
same time, I was trying to put words to the experience.
I'm like, they're like, you guys, be so happy. I'm
like I'm so happy, and I'm like I'm enthusiastic about everything.
So it just felt so the whole thing was just
really really I mean defining it was. It was a

(16:52):
defining moment for me. And when I had Beatrice, Seth
was working and he was working in Vancouver her and
so I decided to take CEO and go there and
give birth in Vancouver, which was a really great experience.
And actually, because I had a history of postpartum depression

(17:13):
UM even though I only went there when I was
like I was like thirty something weeks, it was like
really kind of near the end, and so I had
to meet a doctor like just like yeah, exactly. But
they have systems there in Canada where they have um
uh mental health reproductive units in every hospital, and so

(17:34):
they actually put me with both a psychiatrist and a
psychologist prior to giving birth, so that they would have
a basically, it's amazing, it was. It changed my life.
So I had a basine, and then after I gave
birth with Beatrice, they would have they had an understanding
of where I was at before. Did you have any
of that with Beatrice? Did you have postpartum depression with Beatrice? I?

(17:56):
With Beatrice, I had so much. Okay, So here's what happens.
So Seth was working and the day she was born
two weeks late as well, the day of my do date,
I fell and I fell in a restaurant. I was
walking into a restaurant and there was like water and
I who yeah, and I and I like, um, my

(18:21):
pelvis came apart and and so I was in excruciating pain.
They brought me to the hospital. They're like, we need
to monitor you for twenty four hours and see like
if the baby isn't distressed. The baby was fine. My
pelvis was wrecked. They couldn't give me painkillers because I'm
still pregnant. I um called a few doctors and got
some second opinions. You're not this this part is going

(18:42):
to blow your mind. They were like, Okay, your pelvis
is wildly compromised. So if you have a C section,
your abdominal wall was compromised, you might not be able
to walk for up to six months, like in a
way that you actually feel like cool and it's fine. Um,
so you're going for a vaginal birth. And I was

(19:02):
like okay. And the first the THEO I didn't have
any It was totally unmedicated and like two contractions, and
I was like, I've made a terrible mistake. But it
was meant to be a home birth, and so it's
like that just all like it was. It was unmedicated.
Um was Beatrice. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm
gonna get anupper girl. But then as I was getting
closer to it, I was like, oh, maybe I could

(19:23):
just do it. When my pelvits went out, they were like,
just so you know, the only way you will be
able to push is if we give you an uppergirl.
And I was like, oh, got it. Copy that totally.
So I was just at home for two weeks, had
a wheelchair, had a walker to go to bathroom. Like
it was wild. I'm so quite right now because my
jaw is on the ground, like I it was so insane,

(19:45):
I know. And I was like and my whole my
whole family was super freaked because they were like all
we wanted to do is for Bryce to not have
depression again. And now there's this and like what and
her and her husband is working on a show and
she's in Canada and like, you know, like family wasn't
there at the time, so what's going to happen? So
I had in advanced um scheduled a baby nurse and

(20:08):
she was like this like twenty seven year old like
baby nurse, like super like young, and like yeah, yeah,
go get her. Awesome, awesome, awesome, and she I called
her and I was like, here's what happened. This is
going on, Like I don't know when the baby's going
to be born, but it's going to be kind of
a different situation than we anticipated. And she was like,

(20:29):
we're gonna don't worry. This is going to be totally okay.
And UM and I I eventually when I gave birth,
it was I was two weeks later. I got like
wheeled into the hospital. They gave me an epidural before
inducing me, and these were all things that like in
my hippie deppie life. I was like, no, you know,
and I'm not saying that it's like making the option

(20:50):
to not participate in that is at all a bad thing.
I was. I was just very binary my thinking. I
was like, I was your birth plan, Like you were
like right right, you were very much like this is
the birth plan that I've always said for my self.
And like, I also know your mom was your mom's
labors all unmedicated. Yeah, I think so, I think so, Um, yeah, yeah,

(21:13):
I think with my sisters, because twins, she had vaginal
births with my sisters. Um, and she I think she
might have gotten an aperturel near the end. And she
said that she pushed, she pushed my first sister out
and then they said, okay, here it comes a second.
And she looked at them and she said, do I
have to feel that's amazing? The only reason I asked

(21:35):
is because I feel like a lot of times I
feel like your mom was featured in the dad's um
in the show you directed, and and because I feel
like I got this vibe from your mom, like she
videotaped all your birds and she was like super into it,
Like I just got this vibe like maybe that's just
what you grew up thinking, like, oh, I'm going to

(21:55):
have an unmedicated birth, and it's like so natural and
so like a part of mother hood and all this
kind of ship where I grew up with the mom
who was like I didn't know what the fuss was happening.
I was on so many drugs. I didn't even know
which way was up. So I was like, oh, great,
I'm gonna get a lot of drugs, like as many
drugs as possible, because I do not want to feel this.
But that's like the story I had been told my
whole life, you know what I mean. My mom I'm

(22:16):
remembering now. So my mom, she did get an epidural
with the twins. She didn't with my brother. She didn't
with me until the very like it was like twenty
hours in or something crazy. She called it the breath
of God. And I remember her saying with the first bird,

(22:37):
She's like, please stay open, just stay open. And so
you know, I think I was just much more prepared
the second time for to be supported, and even though
all the crazy stuff that happened happened, I was still
supported and um and so while I did definitely. And

(22:58):
and the baby nurse. Actually she she mentioned to me
like she started to see some signs and stuff, and
she was like, you know, I would love for you
to to, you know, mention these things with the therapist
you're working with. But I was because I had be
interested in Canada. I was I had access to the
services for a year. Oh, I mean, come on, and

(23:19):
can we talk a lot about on Katie's where we
talk a lot about Like here in America, they give
you like after you have your baby and you go
to your six week check up, which is the one
thing that's covered by insurance, that's fifteen minutes, you get
a stupid fucking piece of paper that has five questions
on it with different levels of smiley faces. Right, there's
the sad face, the face that has a smile that's

(23:40):
a line, or the smile, and you go through all
the five and you're just supposed to say, do you
think you're do you want to kill yourself? Do you
want to I mean, and this is how they assess
whether or not you have postpartum depression. First of all,
it's coming way too late. Six weeks is too late.
You've already lost your mind and like it's just not
it's it's just not good enough. Like it's just not

(24:02):
a good enough system at all. And I just encourage
new moms. I'm like, I had a long conversation with
Adam before I had Albie where I was like, listen
to me, if two weeks go by after I have
this kid and you don't recognize me as the person
you've been in love with for thirteen years, you have
to make a lot of sucking phone calls. And here
are the phone calls I need you to make, Like,
here's my therapist. Let's get a psychologist on speed dial.
Let's just make sure that I have the group around

(24:26):
in case I need them, you know, Like, um, and
I just think women are just super unprepared, and I
think we do a terrible job in America taking care
of our women post part of It's ridiculous. Absolutely. What's

(24:47):
interesting is actually one of the reasons why I wanted
to make this movie actually had to do with paternity leave. Yes,
that's just what I'm talking about. Get into this. Yes,
it was. It was shocking. The statistics shocking. Um, I'm
not going to give exact numbers because it's it's changing
and it's a little bit different, but it's like so
so forgive some generalizations, but um what I learned is

(25:12):
that for the majority of men all over the globe
who receive paid paternity leave, they don't take it. So
what's going on? What's going on if fathers who are
receiving paid paternity leave are not taking advantage of it?

(25:33):
And when we actually, like when you look into it.
And I worked with um an organization called the Promundo
Institute in Brazil and they're really they're right at the
forefront of this of trying to kind of solve what
like what is going on and what changes can we
make to support our fathers and to shift this and
and basically what what is happening globally is there is

(25:57):
a stigma around fathers being caregivers that if fathers are caregivers,
then they are therefore not providers. And if they're not providers,
then they're lazy. Then they're not showing up for the
men not men that they're they're not men, they're not masculine,
they're not better And this idea, this notion of you

(26:19):
get the paid paternity leave, but your boss is like
come back when you're when you're ready, it's like, no,
come back in six weeks. You know, there's a set
period of time. It's not like that they get to
pick or choose when they come back, or even worse,
it's like, oh yeah, they're taking their paternity leave. Like clearly,
you know, I don't know if this guy is really

(26:40):
committed to his job because you know, he took he
took his paternity leave. He leaves early from work sometimes
to go to a game, Like I don't I don't
know about this guy. If we want to be you know,
focusing on on leveraging someone like this, and so that's
just it's asked backwards. It's I remember it in the
in it in the move in Dad's it was like

(27:02):
it hit me, like I was like, oh yeah, Like
if the dad or the partner like can't take maternity leave,
who's supposed to take care of the mom? Like Adam
was so key in my caretaking um because I couldn't walk,
and because I was sitting on donuts, and because I
was struggling with emotional breakdowns every hour, crying for no reason,
and because breastfeeding was such a struggle and was so scary,

(27:24):
and all of these things but like he Adam was
serious about it. He took a three month paternity leave
on his own, not paid, Like he just just told
his agent and managers, I don't want a single audition.
I'm not working. Call me after January. Like I'm only
going to get this a couple of times in my life.
If I'm lucky and I there's no acting job or

(27:44):
opportunity that's worth it to me. I just don't care
which how I mean, listen, Adam sapirow Is, you know
I married the guy. But anyway, Um, why is I
love him? But why? I mean, I'm hoping this film
and can change this, But like how I really feel
like you're shifting the narrative. So you guys know, like

(28:05):
in this um documentary that Bryce directed so beautifully, we're
looking at dad's in the caretaking role. Some of the
dad's featured in it are like stay at home dads.
Some of the dads are working and caretaking like a
huge load with the mom um. Some and it's just

(28:28):
and it's all over the world. There's dads of Japan,
there's dad in Brazil, there's a dad in Maryland, There's
a dad. I mean, it's showing stuff. All over. But
I do think it's such there's such stigmas attached to
like dad's not being the providers. It's really sucks, Like
it's just the worst. Like what was your reason for
making the film? Was that part of it was that

(28:49):
the paternity leave thing? Like what what inspired it that
we become what we see what we see modeled for
us either in our own households or we see modeled
for us, you know, out in our culture on our TV,
on our phones, et cetera. And for such a long
time now it's been so obvious to me that I'm

(29:11):
just not seeing the dads that I know in my
life depicted on television. Like the dads on television are
often like they're they're like sort of like loser dads,
Like that's that's what seems to be more entertaining or something.
Or they're like over the top superstar dads, you know,

(29:32):
and and that's that's a great thing to celebrate. But
the reality is is that most fathers, a vast majority
of fathers are engaged, are totally committed to being remarkable
parents are constantly trying and growing, and they're not being
acknowledged like they are left off like, for instance, I

(29:54):
I was making this movie and there was at my
kids school. They were the texting chain that was started
for moms, And I asked, could that's beyond it? But
it was for moms? And I was like, what are
you telling my husband? First of all, I'm not going

(30:15):
to be able to respond to things because I'm I'm
I'm working or whatever. I'm really directing Mandalorian right this
second until my phone is off today, you know when
was off today, tomorrow, the next day. And so therefore
the person who I trust, the person whose responsibility it is,
the person who deserves to be included and acknowledged, is
not And that's not like I mean that what the

(30:38):
way that I just said that seems like super duper
damning and and it's I don't mean it to be
because um, because it's like, you know, there's like this,
having a supportive group of mothers is crucial, absolutely crucial,
but we leave no room for fathers. And living across
the street from us UM for many many years was

(31:02):
a family where the mom worked and the dad was
a stay at home dad, and they had a son
and a daughter who are the same exact ages as
our kids, and he homeschooled them, and so our kids
would constantly come home from school and just run over
there and they would just be with Ja and Jay
would be like watching all four kids. I was like,
how are you doing this? Man? And uh THEO was
seven at the time. And after about a month or

(31:25):
two of this kind of consistent routine, he said to us,
he said, I know what I want to be when
I grew up. And we were like what And he said,
to stay at home dad. And I realized that if
he had never seen Jay, he never would have known
that that was something that he could aspire to, that
that was a part of his purpose on this planet.

(31:47):
And yet with little girls, it's like they're literally eighteen
months old. You're like, here's a baby that you have
a little bit. You have a toy baby doll that
you can burp and give babas and like all this crappy.
It's like they're like doing us. And again, it's not
not to vilify that, but why why are we leaving
our our boys out? You know, why why are we

(32:09):
saying that they are not a value in this area?
Because it's so wrongheaded and it's it's not what boys
want and it's not what men want. And so, um,
we are living in a time when we are publicly
able to for the first time safely say what we
what we hope are our boys and men will aspire to.

(32:31):
We can safely say these things now because of the
Me too movement. We can say what we don't want
them to do, and we must say what we want
them to do. We must leave that space. And so
it's not fair for um, you know, like it's essential
that my son understands consent. It's it's essential that my

(32:53):
son understands white privilege. It's essential that my son understands
about what it is to be a human being in
the world. But it's equally essential that that my son
understands that he has as much opportunities as my daughter does,
especially when it comes to how he wants to create
his family and the role that he wants to play
in his family. And that is something that has just

(33:14):
been just generation after generation undermined, just always to the
point where I realized when when we were making the
movie and I was pulling footage in from Andy Griffith Show,
which was a show that I think was a really
good example of what a father, son relationship can be
like and you know the kind of like how kind

(33:36):
of how to raise a young man in a way
where you're involved your president. You know, there's integrity all
of that. His mom's mom was dead right, there couldn't
even be a mother a part of it in order
for that relationship to that to be like that, like
completely out of the picture. Otherwise it was maybe weird

(33:59):
that the dad would be that engaged, involved, etcetera. So
like what are we teaching our boys? And and and
the truth is like so much better than what has
been depicted on television, Like you know, the truth is
Adam is, Seth is Josh is and also you're I
feel like Seth, you know your son has such a
good shot because you do a beautiful job in Dad's

(34:23):
like showing how how we have a lovely line in
the film between your granddad and then your dad and
then your brother who also becomes a new new father
in the film, which is beautiful to see. And each
of those four no, well you hear from three generations
soon to before, but like you hear from the three men,

(34:45):
how each of those fathers modeled being so present, Like yes,
your dad was obviously on eight thousand sets and doing
eight thousand hours when you guys were kids. But there
were pictures of like him balancing like three of the
four of you on his knee while he's calling action
like and and I related to that. My dad was gone.
And my dad's fashion photographer and he's shot on location,

(35:09):
you know, two hundred days a year. And I feel
like my dad was so fucking present, Like he was
at every play I was in in high school. He
was at every little recital. He was at every little
you know what I mean. Like he and even when
he was away, we talked on the phone ever, like
it wasn't like he was absent at all. So um,

(35:29):
I just think THEO is really if everything is true
about modeling, he has to look to Seth, he gets
to look to your dad, he gets to look to
your granddad. Um and his uncle read of what it
really can look like. I mean, I would be I
would not survive with Adam Sapiro. There is no way
on this. I'm serious. Like he he's so um. He

(35:54):
gets really angry. Like when our when I went back
to work when Alby was little, our nanny, Um, we
high to nanny to come and Adam all of a
sudden started to feel pushed out, Like he was like,
I feel like I need to be on the text
chain with you and the nanny. Like he was like,
I don't care if she's here. If I'm I'm taking him,
I'm taking him, you know what I mean. Like it

(36:14):
was just like trying to figure out that he still
wants to be uh involved, like in everything, He's involved
in everything, Like no questions asked, what do you want
people to take away from the film. I think that
for for Dad's especially, I would want them to feel

(36:40):
or to know that they're not alone, you know, to
feel part of a community. And I think for me
when after after having my first kid, and I just
felt I felt so alone, you know because like you said,
like we were like you were the only people that
were having babies. The rest of us were still gallivanting
around Brooklyn like trying to like smoke cigarettes and be cool,

(37:04):
and like you know, we were just like still making
like really avant garde art in like church basements like
that we're disgusting on like the Lower Reside, Like that's
what we were doing, and you were busy like making
a family, which was insane Oh my gosh, but you
were alone. You were alone, you were I felt alone.
I felt alone, and I felt especially with postpartument all
of that. And when I finally started to feel like, oh,

(37:27):
I can put a name to some of this was
when I read like Brookshield's book, and uh and so
I think for dad's you know, it's like they don't
necessarily or at least what what they the dads that
I interviewed communicated with me, they don't necessarily see these examples, um,
again and again and again in a way that it

(37:49):
affirmed their own role and the work that they're doing
in their family. And so um, and there's not kind
of a language to the experience of father's caregiving, so
that they are given that space and those boundaries and
the respect so that it's like, Okay, it's not just
assumed that the dads don't want to be on the
mom's texting chain like they want to. They want to

(38:10):
know everything that that the mom would know. Um. So
it's yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, okay, so yeah, so
um Brookshield's book, Yes, down came the rain My Journey
through Postpartum Depression. Okay, amazing, We're going to link to
that I did a visual. If you remember, I said
rain and I went down. Yeah she did. She did
rain and she made like a rain drops with her fingers,

(38:33):
like the spider like type of thing. Now, Bryce, what
did you How is it directing? How is it directing?
Your dad was seth watching the kids while you were directing, Like,
tell me about that experience. Yeah. So, UM, I love
to have the kids on set as much as allows,

(38:56):
because that's what my experience was like growing up. And
I think that was really really helpful, really really really helpful, um.
And for for me to understand what my dad was
doing all day, and also for me to be involved
and for me to have a sense of the adult
world and all of that. Um. And so it was
really fun. It was really fun to do this documentary. UM.

(39:18):
But that being said, it was what was interesting was that, Um,
I was actually shooting Mandalorian, prepping shooting, and then in
post for Mandalorian during the week and then on the
weekends I was um doing all the interviews, and then
ultimately when I went into post for Dad's it worked
out with them and the interviews are hilarious. The interviews,

(39:39):
you guys are like it's like Kimmel Fallon Conan, it's
like the greatest, most hilarious, Like it's oh yeah, oh yeah,
yeah yeah, it's like the greatest oh yeah, Will Smith,
Oh my god, They're just hilarious, the most brilliant, hilarious.
Dad's talking about God. You know what, It's not coincidental.

(40:04):
I felt like the majority of them, and this is
why this movie is so important now that I'm thinking
about it, the majority of them also had wonderful dads.
I feel like, right, that's what was really really really,
I mean, it really stood out to me that that
they that. So there's there's like two sets of dads

(40:24):
who are who are focused on in this movie, and
and we called them the hero dads and the comedian
dads UM and the comedian dads are specifically fathers who
are currently or have a history of being stand up comics.
And because stand up comics are really are modern day
philosophers and UM and I wanted this kind of Greek

(40:47):
chorus of dads who could the universal the universality of it.
But I also wanted it to be even though even
though it's it's an emotional movie for a lot of folks.
I started out wanting to make comedy. So you did,
but you did both. I was sucking. I was dying.
The dad in Maryland who as a full on stay

(41:10):
at home dad belief, I mean you are San Diego.
Actually he's, oh, sorry, sorry, San Diego belief. His kid
like one kids on the potty, and he runs downstairs
after he brought in groceries and then another kid while
the other kids. He's down there with the one kid
potty training, the one kids going through the groceries, takes
out the carton of eggs, takes the whole carton of

(41:31):
eggs to the kid's crib, cracks all the eggs all
over the crib. I mean, I was had tears streaming
down my face. You can't and he's like, you can't
make this ship up. And then my wife comes home
and asked me about my day. It's like, I can't
tell you about my day. I don't know what the
fun was going on, Like he was, it's hilarious and
heartfelt and tears but sorry. And all the dads, all

(41:52):
the dads that we profiled, were so we're so real.
And then all the dads who are our comedian dads
were also so incredibly genuine And what I learned was
while um the comedian dads that I was interviewing, when
they would talk about their own fathers, you know, fathers
largely of another generation, and their dads were trying, you know,

(42:13):
like their dads were like cared about their family, and
even the fathers who they felt a strange from or
or restrict or you know, even if there were you know,
things that were problematic, there was always a huge amount
of compassion because I think they saw that that their

(42:33):
fathers were dedicated. And it again speaks to that the
vast majority of fathers are showing up and have been
for generations, but we still haven't made that space necessarily
for them. I mean best depicted with Showichi, who's in Japan.
When he could no longer provide for his wife, he

(42:53):
thought of committing suicide when she was like just be
just just be uh you know they called she referred
to it as a how husband, just be a house husband,
and he thought, like, you know that I'm no longer
of value because of that, and then he turned out
to be the most amazing house He's incredible. He ends
up being diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that so he
can no longer work, and yeah, he contemplates suicide. It's like,

(43:16):
if I can't work, then I am no longer of value.
And then he finds this amazing value in just raising
a human being, which come on, like that is such
beautiful stories. I was like completely blown away, And you're right,
I don't I've never seen anything like it, Like, I mean,
we do a lot of work here on Katie's Crib,

(43:38):
really debunking the myths surrounding motherhood and making sure people
know what really looks like and guess what, You're not
going to get your body back in fifteen days or
whatever the funk Hollywood says, you know what I mean
like and and and you might not like your baby
at first. Oh, so dumb. It's so dumb. I can't
even I don't even have time. I'm like, that is

(43:59):
so a bit what what what are we doing? It's
so dumb? But I really, oh, I remember that. Sorry,
I just got another image when you were doing press
for Spider Man and you were dealing with postpartum and

(44:22):
also the weight gain from THEO that was not fun
for you and why would it be? It was awful, awful,
And I remember I mean, this is the thing that's
so beautiful. I was like, I was like, I was
over two pounds when when I had THEO and I
remember when I was by the way, I don't care

(44:43):
about weight at all anymore and prom for quite a
while in my life is so much better for it. Um.
When I when I went to have Beatrice, I was like,
I found out I was pregnant, and I like went
on this like hiking retreat and I was like, I
hiked like forty miles and in a week, and I
was like, I'm gonna be so fit. I'm gonna be
such a fit mom. I'm gonna like so so so fit.
Months after Beatrice was born, months I was two hundred

(45:08):
and forty three pounds. There, you haven't, folks, you can't
control your body yours, you know. And also like, so
was Beyonce, Like guys watching her documentary, Like Beyonce was
like I was over two hundred whenever pounds pregnant, like
it's just it's got a stuff and and ps, I
was super cute. It's so cute. And also you were

(45:32):
making handle this. Um. But I was thinking in the film,
like I on the documentary, I haven't seen, Like I
feel kind of bad right now because I feel like
we do a lot of work on Katie's cribon Moms
and like, look that shi it all needs to happen.
I'm all about it, But like I have really taken

(45:55):
for granted. I think that Adams just like the best,
and like sometimes I'm like a yoga class and people
one's like thank your partners, like have you thanked your partner?
I'm like, shit, I gotta thank my partner, like dang,
Like I have not really been doing that. And look
at you. You made a whole film, like Seth, you
you're good for a while, Like Seth and your dad
and your granddad and your brother, like you don't have
to buy them a gift for like a very long time.

(46:18):
You are just singing fatherhood praises and really taking a
look at why culturally it's not okay to like be
a house husband or a stay at home dad or
funk that even a dad that works but is super
involved and showing up and trying and failing but trying
again and keeping on trying, keeping on trying. Like I

(46:38):
don't know why we haven't seen that, why it was
so surprising Honestly, Katie, it was so surprising to me,
like when it when it all started, and and the
way that I got this was that UM, a company
Unilever who owns dub and doub men care uh, wanted
to make a feature film documentary about modern fop ring

(47:00):
and that was it. That was like the only requirement.
And they were the ones who were working with the
Permundo Institute and had all the information about paternity leave
and all of that, and so it wasn't something that
came to me on my own. But the moment I
was involved in it, I was like, why does this
feel fresh? This should not feel fresh? This is very
basic stuff. Why why? And And I mean it was

(47:25):
I was I was kind of overcoming my own sort
of like like tunnel vision about mothering because I mean,
at first, I mean I said in the room, I
was like, I mean, yeah, paternity leave, but like, shouldn't
I be like fighting for maternity leave. And then the
more that I learned about it, it was like, oh
my gosh, if we're fighting for maternity leap but we're

(47:47):
not fighting for paternity leave, it is yet again putting
all of the responsibility on the women and undermining the
fathers and preventing them from being able to form a bond, competency, involvement,
all of that. Learned how to do it. I mean
Adam's biggest advice for new dad's they whenever he talks
to a friend who's about to have a baby, and
they asked, like what do they think. He's like, listen
to me, get super involved from the start, because if

(48:10):
you're not learning diapers and all this stuff, it it
just means you're never going to do it. And then
there's just more stuff that's gonna come along that you're
never going to do, and she's going to do it all,
and you're just going to be less and less and
less and less involved. And um so he's just like,
do it all and don't be afraid you're going to
suck it up a lot. Like it's fine, Like it's
you're going to get to try again because they shipped

(48:31):
like six times a day and they're diaper or like
they take a bath like every night, so if you
sucked one night, you can try it again, you know.
Or it's just like Stath changed every diaper, unless he
wasn't there every diaper because I was nursing, so you
were in charge of input. He was in charge of output.

(48:52):
I want to just make sure that we know that
Dad's is coming out June on Apple TV. I loved it.
I watched it alone. I'm going to watch it again
with Adam when it comes out. He's gonna love it.
It's so important, like, and you just did such a
great job. Um, thank you, like you really, I mean

(49:15):
just blew my mind. I laughed, I cried, I felt,
and I felt like what I was watching was important
and fresh. As you said, Um, is there anything else
you want to add about Dad's or what you learned
or what you hope audiences take away. Oh my goodness,
Well you know what what I'll just share. And this
is such a weird thing to just sort of like volunteer,

(49:36):
but um, it was really interesting because because, like I mentioned,
when I was shooting, when I was shooting Dad's, it
was mostly on the weekends because I was doing Mandalorian
during the week and so much of the heart of
that show is the relationship between Mando and Baby and
Baby Yoda, and it's it's the journey of really someone

(50:01):
who like literally has a shell around them, is like
fully disconnected from from everyone around them, Um learns how
to connect with this little vulnerable being and becomes their caregiver.
And it was this really, I mean, John Favreau himself
is just he's just he's the puddle of dad love.

(50:24):
Like he's just like the sweetest dad. Like. The reason
he created the show in part um was so he
wanted he wanted to make something so that he could
stay at home, um, with his kids. He's got three
kids because his wife is a doctor at Cedar Sinai
and UM, and he's like, if I leave then like
you know, she can't leave her practice, and then I'm
not seeing my kids and and he just refused to

(50:46):
do that, UM, like ever and um. And so that's
why he created this production and the conceit of it
and all that sort of stuff that allowed facilitated shooting
in in Los Angeles. But at that you know, he's
the writer of the show. It was just so apparent.
Rent just seeing after seeing it was like, oh my gosh,
this is kind of a love story two new fathers

(51:07):
in a way, you know, fathers like learning, like having
their hearts opened and accepting this into their life, you know,
and and then and then discovering what the adventure is
from there, and I think that some of the best
scenes of that show are the shows that exist between
Baby and Mando and it's like basically out of like

(51:27):
Creamer versus Creamer and and it's it's a dad figuring
it out. So you know, I I don't in retrospect,
I don't think it was an accident. You were doing
both at the same time. Yeah, yeah, Like it was like, okay,
this is the theme of this year. In terms of
Father's Day, I did totally totally Beatrice asked me on
Mother's Day this year, she was like, what what are

(51:49):
we going to get Daddy for Father's Day? What are
you going to get Daddy? And I was like, it's okay.
I made Daddy a documentary this year. Yeah, you're good.
I wasn't featured that my so I do. There's there's
gonna be there's gonna be cards, yes, okay. And the
last question, what is any advice for moms with new

(52:11):
babies um going through it? Gosh? I would say that
that is a given and to take that on as
a given, and that it's just it's out of your
control for a while, and it's out of your control

(52:31):
because your hormones take a while to get back online.
It's out of your control because it takes a while
to practice competency with raising children and and and that
it's probably the best thing that you could ever do
for your child, for yourself and for your partner is
to involve your partner in absolutely everything and too to

(52:54):
expect it and then to allow it. Because what happens
a lot is it's like, oh, the diaper doesn't get
changed that way. Oh no, I don't like it when oh,
but you're doing you're gonna hurt her. You know it's bad,
and it's do it differently than moms. And so to
allow that, let it go process, Yes, let it go.

(53:14):
Would you know, would you know better than to have
anyone right, Katie, The minute I let I stopped trying
to control that, I did it better. Like Adam just
does it differently. And what that is is a break
for me, do you know what I mean? Like we're
talking about potty training right now, Like he really likes
to poop with me because he feels safe. But you
know what, right now, in quarantine, I get afternoons off

(53:37):
and I do morning sessions. So in the afternoon is
Whinnie poops, and I have to let go that that's
going to be Adam's situation, and like I can't control that,
and like I want to. I want to be there
so bad, but I also have my work to do,
and so it's gonna I have to just let the
poop lie where the poop is gonna lie, you know
what I mean. And I feel so lucky that I
learned to just let it go, let him be super involved,

(53:59):
even he's going to do it differently, even if it's
going to go bad or wrong, which really isn't true. Um,
it's just different. And then it just gives me a break.
So I love that a nice I think it's spot on.
Thank you so much, Bryce, thank these memories the memory Lane.

(54:20):
Thank you for coming on Katie's Crib. I couldn't be
happy for you guys. Happy Father's Day. Watch Dad's on
Apple TV. It's brilliant and a wonderful thing to watch
with your families, with your with your partners, with the
dad's in your life, the father figures in your life.
UM to celebrate them and Bryce, you did a beautiful job.
Thank you so much for coming on Katie's Crib. Thank you, Katie,

(54:43):
I'm wanting to do this forever. I'm so so lucky.
Thank you guys so much listening to the episode of
Puge massive shout out to all the dad's out there, happy, happy,
happy Father's Day, sending you all my love, and if
you love the episode and want to hear more, you
subscribe and tell your friends, share rate, do all the

(55:05):
things so we can keep making Katie's Grip. Thanks guys,
Happy Father's Day. Katie's Crib is a production of iHeart
Radio and Shonda land Audio. For more podcasts from I
heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm coming

(55:26):
for I Want You Want, You Want