May 20, 2021 • 44 mins
Comedian, actress and “The Circle” host Michelle Buteau gets real about what led her to surrogacy and how she and her husband are navigating their different parenting styles as they raise their twin toddlers.
Michelle also shares with Katie her thoughts on work-life “balance” as a parent, future school plans for her children, and diaper duty.
Plus, are you a mom who is struggling to conceive and need tips on what steps you can take? Tune in to hear what advice Michelle has to offer on the topic.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. Dear kids, think you're funny,
I don't know. I think so because they laugh at
me when I'm trying to be strict with them. You know,
I don't know what it's like having someone else like
a lion, just like yell at you. Hi, everybody, and
(00:30):
welcome back to Katie's Crib. This week's guest is ha Hilary. Yes,
if you don't know where you should. Her name is
Michelle Buteau and she is a mom of twins. She
had an incredibly wild, five year long journey to parenthood
that she shares all on this podcast, as well as
(00:52):
all of her amazing stories about parenthood in a pandemic
with a Dutch husband. We talk a lot about our
foul mouths. You're gonna enjoy it, but let me tell
you first about Michelle. She's a stand up comedian, she's
an actress, she's a podcast host. She's one of the
stars of the TV remake First Wives Club on b
ET Plus, and the host Slashed the voice of the
(01:13):
popular Netflix competition series The Circle. Michelle can also be
seen stealing scenes in some of your favorite shows in
films like Happiest Season, Always Be My, Maybe, Russian Doll,
Someone Great, and the upcoming Marry Me with Jennifer Lopez.
She also recently published her first book called Survival of
the Thickest. It's hilarious. Get it now. She also has
(01:33):
a one hour comedy special, Welcome to Beutopia. I Love
It so much and streaming on Netflix now, and the
special recently won the Critics Choice Television Award for Best
Comedy Special. We are so lucky to have Michelle on
Katie's Crib. This interview is going to make guys laugh. Michelle,
(01:54):
thank you for coming on to Katie's Crib today. I
mean wow, I am a huge fan of yours, like
you have no idea. That is so nice. Thank you
for those words. I am also a huge fan. Okay,
you have two year old twins, Hazel and Otis. Yeah,
did you know you always wanted to be a mom? Like,
(02:15):
were you a kid that wanted to do this? Yeah?
I oh, I knew that. I always wanted to be
a mom and work before I even knew I wanted
to get married. I never even thought about getting married.
I couldn't picture who that person would be because I
never liked people past three weeks and I'm like, I
don't know what that is, but I know what motherhood
is and I'm down for that. My uncle's the archbishop
(02:37):
of Jamaican and he does more baptisms than weddings. So
people are just out here having babies, but like not together.
So I was like, yeah, that's what I want. But
you know, wow, it's been a zay because the twins
just started daycare a couple of weeks ago, haven't been
sick for a year because they've been home, got another sick,
(03:01):
then they have to be home with me this week.
But I also come into my husband to take a
boy's trip to Tijuana this week because he needs to
get the funk out of the house because I'm like,
I need to miss you. You need to go, Like,
you know, it's bad when you can't even stand the
way your husband breathes and I'm like, I'm glad he's
got breath in his body. I don't need to hear it.
I know, let's talk how has having your twins in
(03:24):
a pandemic? How old are they there too? And just
a couple few January so too yeah, I don't know.
I know they're not paying taxes. They don't need to know.
How was pandemic twindom for you? Yeah, We've had an
amazing nanny who specializes in twins, so she basically taught
(03:47):
us how to be parents, which is amazing. Um. But
with the pandemic, she had to go on quarantine. We
had to go on quarantine. There's always been people in
the house, friends or family to help us, so I
was like, how are we going to do this? It
was scary at first because it was like snorkeling, you
know where it's like it's beautiful, but I can't read.
(04:09):
But then we just like it was all scheduled, so
I was like, husband has in this hour. I have
in this hour. We tag team to take a ship.
Depending on what the day is, we go to this
corner of the house. At eleven twelve o'clock, we go upstairs,
you know, so we try to like make it fun
for all of us. UM edibles help definitely after four o'clock.
I timed it out with their bathtime and by the
time they go to bed, no big deal. I don't
(04:30):
do them all the time. I just did the whole
bedtime routine, like on a really nice buzz and I
was like, oh, this is so much more fucking fun,
Like what have I been doing? Like why have I
not been doing this? Um? Yeah, but it's true. It's true.
So there are so many aspects of your memoir, survival
of the thickest that did you read it? It's so
(04:51):
fucking I've told you I'm a huge fan. What are
you talking about? Damn it. I'm honored to get you.
I think you're amazing. You know not everyone is very
open um about their fertility experience, about their motherhood experience,
And when someone is, I'm like, very very excited for
me and for our Katie's Cript community, because I think
(05:15):
a lot of women are. We suffer in silence. We suffer.
We're supposed to be perfect and it's fucking not. We
have really heavy periods, put on a tight dress, go
to work, try to keep up with everybody else better
than everybody else, making less money, doing all the things,
have to apologize for being the smartest person in the room.
So yeah, we suffer in silence. It's how we've been
taught in almost in every country for thousands of thousands
(05:37):
of years, and now I'm just like fun yeah, funck
the noise, Fuck the noise. You were on a very
long fertility journey, which is a part of your act too.
I've seen you talk about like it was five years,
five years, um, four miscarriages, countless needles. The way I
(05:57):
look back on it is the way people look back
on corn teen, where people are like, God, I didn't know.
I was so busy, like running away from my family,
like always doing this, always doing that, And so for
me looking back on those five years, I'm just like God,
I can't believe I'm still you know, I just had
a d n C and then like hosted for Rosie
O'Donnell like three days later, just because I needed some
(06:18):
sense of normalcy. But also, like Base, you could barely walk.
So your miscarriages were they far along? No, they were
all between six and nine weeks. And I'm sure a
lot of your listeners know with IVF it's like you're
prepping your body for so many months to think it's pregnant.
So all four of them were IVF. Also, yeah, every yeah,
(06:41):
I've been a project that is also so expensive. It
was beyond and out of pocket, because God forbid, you
want to try to have a family going down an
alternative route because just old white man, please stop. No,
it's really bad our insurance, our health care system. It
is a fleet disaster. Or the only country in the
(07:02):
world that has no paid maternity leave. Great, isn't that
so great? And my husband from Holland, these women get
a whole year and when they come back to work,
they can come back to work three days a week
and still get paid for five because they appreciate parenthood
motherhood so much. And that's why these motherfuckers live longer,
(07:23):
all riding bikes, eating fish oil. They're riding so many bikes.
It's too much. It's too much. It's unbelievable. So okay
for miscarriages, And then how did you finally come to
the decision that a surrogate was going to be your road?
And then tell me about I think there was surrogacy
loss situation because you were doing this in New York
(07:45):
and there was probably a ton of barriers. I mean,
I say, wasn't legal in New York unless you're related
to the person, And I'm like, that is And it
only became legal I think last year. Yeah, June was
last year. So when I sort of went through this
n and started talking about it. I was on Wendy
Williams talking about it, and Andy Cohen saw the interview
(08:06):
and he reached out to me and he's like, I
have been trying to lobby for surrogacy in New York.
It's in the budget. I need people on board. They're
trying to make it like a rich thing, a gay things,
just like so ridiculous. And so I went to all
of me with him and a bunch of other fears,
asked people just the stories. You know. It wasn't exhausting
(08:29):
being out for eight hours just talking to people. It
was exhausting, like living through people's grief all over again.
And we've all been on this other side of it
where we're like, Okay, now we can look back and
talk about it. And now you have like this elevator
pitch for your your trauma, which is what you need
to go into these rooms to make sure happen. And
it was like just fucking bananas, because I was like, yeah,
(08:50):
I've narrowed it down to six sentences or less to
try and keep people's attention. So I was like, I
see all of you, and it was really bananas. And
I even you know so hard not to cry every
damn and but I was like, God, where were you
people when I was going through this because there was
no one to talk to, which was so crazy for
me because I know way too many people. How do
(09:10):
I have not one person I could talk to about this,
not even my therapist. Why it's really, it's so ridiculous
and it and it happens more than we know. Oh yeah,
and and honestly, it's why I'm so appreciative of you
being so open. Gabrielle Union was on last year and
she had a surrogate, but she has U dinometriosis and
(09:33):
she got the help that she needed because Lena Dunham
has the same thing and posted something about it. So
Gabrielle reached out to Lena and was like, please help,
and Lena like and so it's like you keep paying
it forward, you know what I mean. Now that you've
made this step, it's like, now you influence other people.
So oh of course, oh my gosh, of course you do.
(09:56):
Um Okay, So how did you find your surrogate? How
was the pregnancy experience? Was it insane? Like Ted, tell
tell me about that, Tell me about the whole journey.
Of like actually getting her pregnant. All of this, um well,
(10:16):
um well, when you do I V f right. You
have to go to the clinic at least three days
a week for sonogram's blood tests, pay for your medicine
out of pocket. You just feel like you're Carmela Soprano
and you're like Tony any money, you know, and it's
just like ridiculous. And so after the last miscarriage, my doctors,
(10:41):
who are amazing, We're like, we want you to walk
out of this office pregnant far along and they were
so great, but my body was just so tired that
I was like I can't do this anymore and I
don't know what to do. And then they sit you
down and give you the pamphlet with surrogacy and you're
like what is this? And my doctor worked with a
(11:04):
couple of surgacy agencies that he really trusted, and so
I just I was like the girl who just got
the license at the car dealership. I'm like, tell me
where to go and tell me what to do. I
can't make any more decisions for myself, and so I
just called up this agency and it was really hard
to just even get an appointment. I was like, oh
my god, how long is this gonna take. It's still
a whole step. And as things started to happen and
(11:28):
we were meeting and they were like, do you have
any more questions? It's sort of like going back to
work with COVID. I can't think of questions for something
that's never happened before. So it's really just as we
go along, and then there's some questions. It's so personal
you're like, am I even allowed to ask? As you know,
(11:50):
it is a very weird, wild emotional experience um going
through surrogacy without even knowing anyone that's done it. It
feels like you're on a roller coaster ride in the dark,
but people keep telling you it's gonna be beautiful, don't worry,
(12:10):
keep holding on, but you don't know when the next
thing happens. It's a it's a huge miracle of fact
that anyone is born. Remember that when you have grown rage.
The fact that anyone if born is crazy, you know
what I mean. It's just like, oh damn, mo, I'm
went through something I know and I'm so I'm sitting
here just thinking, like my god, like this is a
(12:33):
fucking journey. It was weird and everyone I know who's
had IVF or even just egg freezing, the hormonal ship
of Yeah, like getting your drugs and then having your
partner or yourself or whoever putting them into your body
and then feeling sick and bloated and all this, and
you did that so many times, and then to go
(12:54):
through a surrogacy um agency, I mean unbelievab Well, so
how did you check in with your surrogate? We spoke
every day. I would check in with her every day
to see how she was feeling. Because at this point
when the babies were born, I felt like I had
already met them. When I was like going through IBM,
(13:15):
between the miscarriages and everything, I was like, I need
to meet these souls. You know, did you everything twins
was a possibility? How did that information come your way?
I did not know what was in store. I knew
that we had um some embryos bank. I knew that.
(13:37):
In terms of being safe about it and being sure
about it, it's like, let's put it, yes, exactly, let's
put in a few because the chances and the odds,
and you know, one takes, one might not take ex exactly.
It's kind of gross how people think we just wake
up and we're just like, I don't want to ruin
(13:59):
my body and I have money to spend. It's either
kids or a boat, So let's get a kid with
curly hair and make sure it's like that's not what
we're out here doing. This is like a last ditch
effort of I really hope I get to make this
family happen and meet these souls that we've worked so
hard to have, right, and so yeah, I mean it
(14:20):
was just so crazy, like proper educated people asking me
was like plaques on the wall making important decisions, asking
me stuff like that, you know, like you know, it's
just so crazy. Yeah, people are people just don't understand
what it is or how it works because we're people
(14:42):
are so selfish and never think outside of their like
five mile radius in their head to say, oh, I
don't want that, but you do, so it's still worthy
and it's like, what the fuck? So when did you
(15:08):
get the call that it was twins? Was it around
the twelve week mark or something? Yeah, I think it
was a couple of weeks, but it was because there
was some bleeding. You We're like, oh no, in my mind,
I'm like, here we go again. But when we did
an ultrasound, there was two heartbeats and I was like what.
But like, even up until the second they were born,
I was like, I don't want the other shoe to
(15:30):
fucking drop right right, because you've had you been through
such trauma that you were like, there's no way this
is going to work out. There's no way. It hasn't
worked out up until now. So like at some point
some ship is going to hit the fan that is
unexpected or whatever. I have felt that so many I mean,
I had miscarriages and stuff like that before. Um does
(15:50):
it ever leieve you though? I mean you, yes, yes,
for sure. I mean and even going through this year.
I pregnant during the pandemic and it was just hard
being pregnant and isolated and even my labor, I was like,
something's going to go horribly wrong, right, Like, something's gonna
go horribly wrong. There's no way that like you know, um, hello,
(16:16):
here's my child. Hey, Albi, I'm busy talking to my
friend Michelle. Okay, okay, we love you. Have a good
day at school. All be just started school too, Oh
my goodness, two weeks ago. I'll be this is my
friend Michelle. Hi, ok are you what did he say? Hi?
(16:38):
Poopy Michelle, You're welcome. We're big at the body talk
right now. I had a good poopy too, Thanks for asking.
She had a good poopy too, Thanks for asking, she said, yeah,
I'll come tune. You can't. Started school also, and in
two days was sick. Two days, I hold, my husband
(17:01):
got a cold, my baby got a cold. I was like,
is this a joke? This is what we're and also
is it COVID? And are we freaking out? And what
are we doing? And everyone told me, your kid's gonna
get sick in the first two weeks. Oh my goodness.
So it's for as far as school is concerned, Like,
how did your kids adjust to being in school with
other kids being around? It was so hard And this
(17:21):
is the personal decision for me. But I was trying
to find a daycare where they weren't required to wear
masks because they're two years old. I'm in the same
boat his his doesn't require masks either. Yeah, So the
fact that I found one, I'm like dope. And then
it was a whole kitten caboodle of just like they
better be nice to my children. Are there are there
cameras But they weren't cameras, but they sent you updates
(17:42):
and there's an I'm like, send me updates all the time.
So I was like that bitch, and I was like,
oh they like it. Look at them porn stuff and
listening and doing yoga and um yeah. They were the
only two in the class, and I was like, where
the rest of the kids. They're like, oh, this is it.
The whole point was for them to be socialized. No way,
there are no kids in the class. There's no kids
(18:04):
in the class. And like, why am I saying there
with no peanut butter if there's no kids in the class.
So finally there's another kid, but he's only there, he's
there part time. Where are the children? Where are they are?
They all sick with the same cold that you gave
your kids and they'll be back next week. No, there's
you know, it's so fun. There's like a twenty four
(18:26):
month cut off and then like a two year old thing,
so all the kids, I have a fun twenty four
months under That's why I'm like, this month is bullshit,
that's not true. I I mean, I'm really whatever my school.
I'm not trying to be like my school's better, but
it's not. But I'm just saying probably it's mixed age
and I and I fucking love it because my child
(18:48):
is such like needs um. Although God like you have twins,
they had each other during the pandemic. My child became
a nightmare. But it was alone the entire pandemic, and
the sun moon stars sets on this fucking kid and
it's like he is needs to go to school, like
he got bit yesterday, and I was thrilled about it.
(19:08):
I was like for a little boy. They were fighting
over a toy and a little boy like used his
teeth not he didn't even break this like it wasn't
a bad one. But I was like, yes, like my
child needs to get out there and learn this ship
like you can't hit your friends, you gotta fight over toys.
You gotta learn to use your words, like I can't
teach you that by yourself. That's you know what. I'm
(19:29):
the only child, and I was I was just like,
I hope to have siblings because it was so much
I had to figure out by myself on that playground. Okay,
you find out it's twins even on their birth you
were like this ship is not going to work out.
Something's gonna go something. I hope this ship works out,
is what I was saying. But like baby girl came
(19:49):
right out, Baby boy was reached. You know. Even then
after like you don't sleep in the in the hospital,
You're just looking at them and then like you fall
asleep standing up like a horse. Started getting like all
these like ailments. My ankles hurt, my knees hurt. You know,
I had sciatica, and my husband's like, we have to
put them in their room and you need to fucking sleep.
(20:11):
I just was so paranoid. I had to like look
in the crib every noise they made to make sure
they're gonna be okay. Of course, of course, did you
do the first bunch of weeks alone? Did you have
a night nurse? Did you have any help? We were
alone and I was doing like the adult NG podcast,
and I did like a Drew Barrymore movie, and weren't
you doing? Um? I think you were doing Always Be
(20:33):
My Maybe, which I've also seen, and you were amazing
and your character was fully pregnant. It was literally that
week that the surrogate was getting transferred with the embryos, right, yeah,
it was the week where I shot the scene where
I had given birth where she was getting her transfer,
and I was like, wow, this is crazy. I was
(20:56):
like just so wild and thank god weed's legal and
bank over and not like I bought it, but I
was like, it's good to have options. I just got
a seafood tower and cried it's here. So how did
you feel when you first laid eyes on them? Was
it an immediate love at first sight? Did it feel real?
Did you feel outside of yourself? It still doesn't feel real.
(21:18):
It's such a weird combination of like, I love you,
your mind, I don't know you, who are you? You
picture them when you like are in the cute phase
with your partner, and then you see them, You're like,
what the funk? That's not what I thought. But it's
still so much better, But also what the So it's
still I still feel like no one can do it
better than me, and I still feel like I have
(21:38):
no idea what I'm doing, Like all at the same time,
and I don't know how to describe it any other
way was pretty perfect. I know you, but I don't
know you at all. And I know what I'm doing,
but I don't know what I'm doing at all, Like
it's really that is it? It's really what it is? Now?
How um, how was it taking care of wins? You know, twins,
(22:02):
no matter how old they are, you never really feel
like you're giving them enough attention because um one, like
baby girls definitely more outgoing than baby boy, but because
we're always like clapping for her because she's doing a dance,
like I want to make sure that baby boy knows
that he's also you know, just yes, and so it's
(22:25):
a lot of that. And also you know, she was
sick first and then she gave it to him like
child fleet. But she likes to be held more than him,
but he needs to be held now that but he's
the heavier one. So they have very different temperaments. They
have very different temperaments. Do they play differently? Like do
they are they? You know, I don't know. But what
(22:49):
I is there like a big difference between girl boy
stuff right now? Is she like super into girl like
a doll and that sort of thing, and he's more
into trucks? Do you is that existing in her household?
For sure? I mean she's into all this stuff, she's
also into anything he's into. I don't know, there's a
whole god damn room of plastic for her to play with.
(23:11):
She is very aware that are there are people around
and likes to entertain, which is wild like rolling her
eyes and can't say sentences, but has whole less opinions.
Did she come out first or second? She came out first.
So even in daycare, he'll cry when we drop him off,
but she's like, let's go, motherfucker, these people like us
and we'll like take his hand and like be like shush, shush. Yeah.
(23:35):
So she's a really good old sister, even though even
by sixteen minutes. But um and and he's just like
a thoughtful, quiet, definitely only child. Is that like you
and your husband? Well, she has the outgoing parts of
both of us. Chis was very outgoing when he was little.
Um and then sort of become he became like this quiet,
(23:58):
I want to be behind the camera and a photographer. Dude. Um.
You know has had the same friends for thirty years,
and I'm just like, you know, all right, like I
just freaks and Gates man, come on over. You know.
I'm obsessed with twins. I mean we my husband like
always wanted twins and I know you don't know. Yeah,
(24:19):
I was like, no, you're gonna understand that, Like how
fucking hard that is. I mean, it's a lot of
I think for twins to No one told me that, Um,
I would feel like I'm in a factory. Like sometimes
I feel like that Lucy o ball like chocolate factory,
just like you're just constantly putting out meals, You're constantly
(24:39):
cleaning up meals, You're constantly cleaning this mess up, putting
that out. Like it's just because that's how my life feels.
And I have one three and a half and a baby,
but I can't imagine two at the same age. Um,
do you ever talk about the future? Like are they
going to be in the same school? Are they going
to be in separate schools? Like, how do you feel
about that twins stuff? You? For me, I would love
(25:00):
for them to be in the same room and the
same school and have each other's back and ship like
that and always have a witness and you can on
this person your whole fucking life. But I know that's
not reality. I mean, I feel like they're gonna be
definitely in different schools, although I would love for them
to be in this Oh, gosh, um, okay, did you
go back to work right away when they were born?
(25:23):
Kind of? I don't know why. I thought, I'm gonna
bring twins home. I won't be doing the road, so
I'll have time to write a book. The fun was
I thinking, Oh my god, I don't know why I
said that. I don't know why. And then I would
beat myself up for taking a nap and not writing
the book. And I'm just like, do I need to
take the shower right now? And everyone's like, yes, we
can spell you. And so it was such a weird
(25:45):
come to Jesus of like, am I selfish? If I
go off in a room and do this thing? And
then I would hear them cry and I'm like, but
this is how you hold her, and they're like, go away.
I don't even remember what your question was. My question
is how has it been like going back to work
work life balance? Do you have that? I don't know
anyone that does, so, No, it's fine. I'm wondering that
(26:09):
you have the secret to that. No, I don't know
what that is. I try to like make hardlines for myself,
but you know what I would really love to do,
and it's hard, right to pandemic. I would love to
take a girl's trip word trip on myself, just to
feel like I got this. But there's still so much
stuff you have to do before you leave. Oh my god,
he just prepping the family for you to be gone
(26:31):
is almost not worth it sometimes, like it's like no,
it's like just to set up your fucking household to
run when you're not there because you do so much
ship so to fill in other people on what you do,
Like just this morning, to be able to record this
podcast at eight am. Our morning routine is different than
what it normally is, and it is a fucking ship
(26:52):
show out there, like and I'm like, everybody just fucking survived.
And that's one hour. But normally do the mornings, you know.
So my son's screaming, he's so upset. The dad's waking
him up and it's not me. And I did all
the things. I packed the lunch last night, I put
out his breakfast for this morning, fucking last night, SHU,
that wouldn't go bad, Like everything set up ridiculous and
(27:16):
still ridiculous, ridiculous. And that's like imagine a trip. It's
like I don't even I want one too. I would
like to sleep in. All I want to do is
sleep in. That's all I want. Even till seven, even
till seven thirty would be an absolute miracle. Can you
tell me, um, what's something you've discovered about guys as
(27:37):
a father? Do you match each other's strengths and weaknesses?
She's giving me a face you guys can see, she's
giving me a face like face like, what the who? No,
I mean, we're working on it. I think we didn't
realize how opposite we were. Well, you come from such
(28:01):
different backgrounds to like, Okay, so he's Dutch, he's Dutch,
I'm American. Dutch people are way more laid back and
lenient with their kids to sort of wasn't in the
New York Times about how you're a hell you're more helicopter.
He's much more laid back, which, okay, tell me or
(28:24):
is that a huge source of tension between you guys.
I mean he was right there with me too, but
it wasn't his body that we had a prep to go,
you know, through this surgery or through this thing or
through that you know procedure. Yes, and so you know,
we definitely compliment each other where I'm just like he's
gonna hit her head with that rock. Just watch and
(28:45):
he's like, no, it's no. And then sure enough, I'm like,
see how you stone rocks? And then he's like, let
them run. They'll stop at the edge of the sea wall.
You'll see. And I'm like will I He's like sand
us soft. I'm like is it? So it also get
caught in your eye for all of time? So um,
we do complement each other in that way. But you know,
(29:07):
I didn't realize that I would become like this, like
Everyone Loves Raymond episode where I'm getting the kids ready
for daycare and I'm making two breakfasts and two lunches
at the same time, and I finally get to sit
on the couch while I'm doing something. Of course, I'm
giving them kisses and I'm just like, I love you.
And then he'll bust out with the well, where is
(29:30):
my breakfast? Don't you love me? And I'm like, where
the funk is my breakfast? Where the funk are my waffles?
So you know what I mean. So I feel like,
you know, I think we thought we had it all
figured out, especially looking at all our friends who are
fun ups have babies. We're like we're cool, We're not
gonna do it like that. But here we are deep
(29:51):
in quarantine, you know, trying to figure out who we
are as parents together our relationship with them. Also didn't
even think of all the relationships that spawn in the family.
The kids are not the same with me as they
are with him, as they are with the both of us.
That's definitely true, and so you know, we have definitely
taken tons of moments to be like, how do we
(30:12):
fix this? There's always a partner who feels like they're
being forgotten, and they're not just that other person isn't
even taking care of themselves. They're just like trying to
get through it. I feel like you and I are
very in the similar boats in our relationships. Oh my god.
Like I'm far more of a helicopter parent and my
(30:37):
husband is far more like laid back and relax But
my husband's also better at discipline than I am. Who
is that in your relationship? I think both. I think
both because he speaks touch to them and I speak
English to them. So you know, so he only speaks
touch to them. That's fucking amazing, Like it's good. So
(31:00):
that's why there's speech is a bit delayed, But I'm
cool with that. No, it's fine. I have like so
many families who are doing similar things, who have three
and a half year olds, and there it's great. It's
like their speech might be a little bit delayed and
then they're all of a sudden speaking two languages and
you're like, ha ha, yeah, fuck you. I know. I know.
(31:21):
Seth Meyers the other night was just like, do you
ever feel like they're gonna be talking behind your back?
I'm like, do it. Thank god, I don't need to
be a part of everyday of conversation. Figure it out.
(31:43):
What have you found to be your strengths as a mom? Um?
Oh god, to say something nice about myself, yes, come on, Michelle,
you deserve it. I mean, I'm I'm a hustler. I
guess it done, and I make people feel good at
(32:04):
you know that that's my gift in life. And so
I feel like if my kids are talking about me
on a podcast forty years from now, you know, I know,
definitely the're gonna be like my mom loves this ship
out of me, maybe too much? Are you a fun,
playful parent? Like I'm not. I'm like terrible at that.
My husband like like I love I'm a produced oreal mom, right,
(32:27):
So I love you know, making sure everyone's safe and
needs are met and like all of that. But when
my son is like, let's play hide and see it,
I'm like I want to blow my brains out. Or
or if he's like I want to make a craft
or something, I'm like, oh fucking fuck. Like I know
that paint is so especially when it's not for me,
but some mothers love it, like they really do. I mean,
(32:51):
where are you at on that? I'm a little bit
of both. I definitely like to produce, Like I love Pinterest,
I love toddler meals. I love figuring out what they
like to eat, and like seeking in the vegetables. I
got that ship down that it is. Then I also like,
you know, trying to figure out how to make them
(33:11):
do big girl and big boy stuff, like isn't that fun?
Look at that hamper? That hamper. So yes, you know
a little bit of both. But um, I also like
when people take over and play with them and they
have like a moment and experience with them. But um,
I've been told by my mom, who was not that person.
My mom like will teach me how to she taught
(33:33):
me how to balance a checkbook and went my butt.
She was not trying to be out here singing Patty
Cake with me, you know, or even her lover. But
you know what I mean. But um, she has told me,
and a few of my friends have told me, they're
just like, you're just hard to follow, you know you.
I could watch you do the alphabit all goddamn day.
I can't do this with you, and I'm like, just
(33:55):
puttal effort into it, make it your own. So I
am fun, but not all the fun time. Dear kids
think you're funny. I don't know. I think so because
they laugh at me when I'm trying to be strict
with them. You know, I don't know what it's like
having someone looks like a lion just like yell at you. Yeah,
(34:16):
I'm oh my god, I can't. I can't imagine you
being like really good at being strict. But I'm but
I'm trying, because I'm out here horrible at it. I
am trying. Yeah, I have to do it with Hazel
more than anyone else because I give her the count
of three. I do the count of three to which
is a great tool. And I never ever thought i'd
(34:40):
be account to three. Mom. Ever, I'm such a fucking hippie.
I was like, no, I don't believe in this stuff,
like absolutely, like we're all just free loving and out here,
you know, forest here for flute here. And then my
son is such a challenger and tester and boundary breaker
and hates authority and rules and I have had to
(35:04):
learn real quick, like he has a stick and he's
about to smash someone in the face with it, and
I'm like, I'm about I'm giving you to the count
of three, or I'm taking that stick away, where I'm
taking television away or whatever, like I've become the consequences.
Time ends. It's really just just time fucking out. But
I'm trying. Wow, I never thought i'd be the corner mom.
(35:27):
I'm like, we're going to the corner. It's great. She'll
take her milk and pour it out while looking at me.
I'm like, are you a psychopath? Oh no, but that's
my hutest psychopath I've ever seen. Yeah, that's my son.
Like sitting on the pool steps and me being like,
if you drink pool water one more time, and he
literally stares down the barrel like into my soul and
takes a huge pail of water while he drinks it.
(35:50):
It's so crazy, that's their job. Like Hazel will put
in bathtime, She'll pour water all over Otis and he's
just out here trying to play with the red car
Ah and then he starts crying and like, I really
want to take water important on her and be like
did you like it? But I haven't done that yet.
I might because I'm just like I can't keep pulling
(36:11):
her out of the bathtub because it's so hard. We
just had someone on the podcast who's like, teach them
how it makes someone else feel. I mean, that's what's
so great about her having a twin. I've been trying
this new thing. I'll let you know if it works.
Where when my son is a dick to my four
month old, not a twin, and she starts to make upset,
(36:33):
I'm like, look at her face. She looks really upset,
Like do you see that? You know, we don't want
to have our friend or our family look upset. But
it's really fucking hard because they just want attention and
they don't care if it's good or bad. It's all
the same to them. So the fact that she dumps
water on Otis's head and then the whole world like
(36:54):
gets shooken up in her face like she's like, yes,
this is fucking awesome. I I know, I mean there's
not enough rose, Like just give me an ivy, you know,
I completely agree. Can you can you tell me about
like diaper duty with twins, how do you split up
(37:14):
the responsibilities any other thing I'm curious about, how do
you split it up? You don't. I mean again, he's
more laid back, so he'll wait till like a diaper's
falling off. Practically, Oh god, that would fucking kill me.
It it um. You know, stress makes me sick. So
(37:35):
I'm really trying to pick my motherfucking battles because you know,
if he's loading the dishwasher, and I know he's a
good person, then I have to hold onto that he does.
He takes a trash out like I'm trying, you know,
and he is hard, like he hates hoop diapers. He'll
do it, He's done it, he will do it, but
he can't breathe. He starts a gag, and I'm just like,
(37:57):
get me in there, you know, like because for me, again,
I want to give the kids a good experience. I
don't want them to be like, you know, I don't
like this because they don't like it. You know, I'm
just like, look at you, you had a good as
let's see. Yeah, I'm like those are those veggie muffins
and trying to make it a good experience. You don't
want them to have your such a great mom, Like
(38:20):
I can really tell I love that you've even given
thought to like the diapering situation, where it's like, if
I've got good vibes about the ship and pe, then
they're going to have good vibes. Look, it's a big
thing because my mom trying to teach me how to
put a tamp on in and she it was like
she had to walk like a tight rope. It was
(38:41):
like she was that scene of like, um, what is
it called Indiana Indiana Jones where she was like which
cup did Jesus have? I Huh? She's like, God, what
are we gonna do for when that happens? Can you
tell me what are we gonna do? Well? Probably tamplus
will be obsolete anyway, You're already even like a cup
(39:02):
in your lunch box. Don't lose them, but um do
you have any tips from your own journey for moms
out there who are struggling to concede can see Oh yeah,
yeah I do. UM. Research is your best tool. You know,
(39:25):
if you can't get it done in your state or
even your neighborhood, it doesn't mean that you can't get
it done elsewhere. You have options basically. And one thing
my friend Jordan's wife, well, Jordan's wife told me when
I was down and out a lot, She's like, you're
a crazy bitch and you will get what you want.
That helped a lot. I held on to that and
Jordan told me, you've had bad days, but sometimes it
(39:50):
could be a happy ending. Don't forget that, And so
I remember that always as well. Um. But yeah, I mean,
I'm not a big research person, you know what I mean.
I'm not a Aaron Brockovitch. I'm not like, how dare
you say that, Sarah. I'm gonna go prove you wrong.
I'm not that bitch, you know. You tell me. I'm like, oh,
(40:12):
I'm sad. You mean I can't have kids, you know
what I mean? Like I A lot of us don't
know how to advocate for ourselves right, especially as women
and especially in the healthcare industry. It's like it's really
a lot of work, and it's a lot of being
talked at, and it's a lot of um people not
(40:35):
having the information and being exhausted and overwhelmed and not
even knowing where to go. And so, yes, you have
to have a little bit of Aaron Brockovich in there
to sort of not not let it stop you. Keep going,
keep seeing other specialists, keep asking friends about it, keep
if you And that's the thing, if you talk about it,
someone will have information that might yes, who and there
(41:00):
this way, who talked to this specialist, who talked to
this doctor, And it's like this is the ultimate recipe
exchange that needs to happen. You know what I mean?
Fucking cast roles, that's what That's what it is. That's
like what it is. Um. Okay, do you have any
general advice for our parent listeners about parenting right now? Yeah,
(41:25):
don't listen to people who don't know what the funk
they're talking about. You know who loves to tell you
what advice people who don't know what the funk they're
talking about. People are like, if you work less, if
you lost weight, if you it was always somehow my fault.
And I'm like, do you have a degree on your wall?
You know? No you don't. So that ship, you know,
(41:47):
it's like, yes, we have to talk to people, but
when you talk to people, they feel like they want
to give you some jankie acid advice or some ship
and uh that part. Don't listen to people. It's all
like grain of salt, you know, yea love that. Um
finish this sentence. Parenthood is so are as crazy as fun?
(42:19):
That's the Michelle Bouto quote I wanted is crazy as fun.
Put it on a T shirt, Put it on a magnet,
put it on a fucking magnet. Oh my, I hear
baby boy crying at my phone, like what is going on?
And um okay, so we'll have you on again, and
(42:40):
you're gonna tell me about when Otis and Hazel start
speaking like you and they are like they seek and
Dutch and then they're like, this is just fucking me
right right right here. They are actually, oh I thought
they were. See what are they doing? Hi? Hi you guys?
(43:03):
Hi you see it is hi? Oh my gosh, they
are Oh my gun Is. Look at that blue thing.
That's beautiful. Hi? Hi friends, Hi, Hazel hid at me. Um,
it's lunch shime. You're the best. You're the best. Thank
(43:26):
you so much for this. I hope you guys loved
that episode. I sure did. I want to hang out
with Michelle all the time and her amazing twins, and
I want to hear from you what topics you want
to discuss this season? What guests should we have on
(43:48):
You can always reach me at Katie's Crib at Shonda
land dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda
Land Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more
podcasts from Shonda Lanadi, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(44:16):
You never know never until you try me right,
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. Dear kids, think you're funny,
I don't know. I think so because they laugh at
me when I'm trying to be strict with them. You know,
I don't know what it's like having someone else like
a lion, just like yell at you. Hi, everybody, and
(00:30):
welcome back to Katie's Crib. This week's guest is ha Hilary. Yes,
if you don't know where you should. Her name is
Michelle Buteau and she is a mom of twins. She
had an incredibly wild, five year long journey to parenthood
that she shares all on this podcast, as well as
(00:52):
all of her amazing stories about parenthood in a pandemic
with a Dutch husband. We talk a lot about our
foul mouths. You're gonna enjoy it, but let me tell
you first about Michelle. She's a stand up comedian, she's
an actress, she's a podcast host. She's one of the
stars of the TV remake First Wives Club on b
ET Plus, and the host Slashed the voice of the
(01:13):
popular Netflix competition series The Circle. Michelle can also be
seen stealing scenes in some of your favorite shows in
films like Happiest Season, Always Be My, Maybe, Russian Doll,
Someone Great, and the upcoming Marry Me with Jennifer Lopez.
She also recently published her first book called Survival of
the Thickest. It's hilarious. Get it now. She also has
(01:33):
a one hour comedy special, Welcome to Beutopia. I Love
It so much and streaming on Netflix now, and the
special recently won the Critics Choice Television Award for Best
Comedy Special. We are so lucky to have Michelle on
Katie's Crib. This interview is going to make guys laugh. Michelle,
(01:54):
thank you for coming on to Katie's Crib today. I
mean wow, I am a huge fan of yours, like
you have no idea. That is so nice. Thank you
for those words. I am also a huge fan. Okay,
you have two year old twins, Hazel and Otis. Yeah,
did you know you always wanted to be a mom? Like,
(02:15):
were you a kid that wanted to do this? Yeah?
I oh, I knew that. I always wanted to be
a mom and work before I even knew I wanted
to get married. I never even thought about getting married.
I couldn't picture who that person would be because I
never liked people past three weeks and I'm like, I
don't know what that is, but I know what motherhood
is and I'm down for that. My uncle's the archbishop
(02:37):
of Jamaican and he does more baptisms than weddings. So
people are just out here having babies, but like not together.
So I was like, yeah, that's what I want. But
you know, wow, it's been a zay because the twins
just started daycare a couple of weeks ago, haven't been
sick for a year because they've been home, got another sick,
(03:01):
then they have to be home with me this week.
But I also come into my husband to take a
boy's trip to Tijuana this week because he needs to
get the funk out of the house because I'm like,
I need to miss you. You need to go, Like,
you know, it's bad when you can't even stand the
way your husband breathes and I'm like, I'm glad he's
got breath in his body. I don't need to hear it.
I know, let's talk how has having your twins in
(03:24):
a pandemic? How old are they there too? And just
a couple few January so too yeah, I don't know.
I know they're not paying taxes. They don't need to know.
How was pandemic twindom for you? Yeah, We've had an
amazing nanny who specializes in twins, so she basically taught
(03:47):
us how to be parents, which is amazing. Um. But
with the pandemic, she had to go on quarantine. We
had to go on quarantine. There's always been people in
the house, friends or family to help us, so I
was like, how are we going to do this? It
was scary at first because it was like snorkeling, you
know where it's like it's beautiful, but I can't read.
(04:09):
But then we just like it was all scheduled, so
I was like, husband has in this hour. I have
in this hour. We tag team to take a ship.
Depending on what the day is, we go to this
corner of the house. At eleven twelve o'clock, we go upstairs,
you know, so we try to like make it fun
for all of us. UM edibles help definitely after four o'clock.
I timed it out with their bathtime and by the
time they go to bed, no big deal. I don't
(04:30):
do them all the time. I just did the whole
bedtime routine, like on a really nice buzz and I
was like, oh, this is so much more fucking fun,
Like what have I been doing? Like why have I
not been doing this? Um? Yeah, but it's true. It's true.
So there are so many aspects of your memoir, survival
of the thickest that did you read it? It's so
(04:51):
fucking I've told you I'm a huge fan. What are
you talking about? Damn it. I'm honored to get you.
I think you're amazing. You know not everyone is very
open um about their fertility experience, about their motherhood experience,
And when someone is, I'm like, very very excited for
me and for our Katie's Cript community, because I think
(05:15):
a lot of women are. We suffer in silence. We suffer.
We're supposed to be perfect and it's fucking not. We
have really heavy periods, put on a tight dress, go
to work, try to keep up with everybody else better
than everybody else, making less money, doing all the things,
have to apologize for being the smartest person in the room.
So yeah, we suffer in silence. It's how we've been
taught in almost in every country for thousands of thousands
(05:37):
of years, and now I'm just like fun yeah, funck
the noise, Fuck the noise. You were on a very
long fertility journey, which is a part of your act too.
I've seen you talk about like it was five years,
five years, um, four miscarriages, countless needles. The way I
(05:57):
look back on it is the way people look back
on corn teen, where people are like, God, I didn't know.
I was so busy, like running away from my family,
like always doing this, always doing that, And so for
me looking back on those five years, I'm just like God,
I can't believe I'm still you know, I just had
a d n C and then like hosted for Rosie
O'Donnell like three days later, just because I needed some
(06:18):
sense of normalcy. But also, like Base, you could barely walk.
So your miscarriages were they far along? No, they were
all between six and nine weeks. And I'm sure a
lot of your listeners know with IVF it's like you're
prepping your body for so many months to think it's pregnant.
So all four of them were IVF. Also, yeah, every yeah,
(06:41):
I've been a project that is also so expensive. It
was beyond and out of pocket, because God forbid, you
want to try to have a family going down an
alternative route because just old white man, please stop. No,
it's really bad our insurance, our health care system. It
is a fleet disaster. Or the only country in the
(07:02):
world that has no paid maternity leave. Great, isn't that
so great? And my husband from Holland, these women get
a whole year and when they come back to work,
they can come back to work three days a week
and still get paid for five because they appreciate parenthood
motherhood so much. And that's why these motherfuckers live longer,
(07:23):
all riding bikes, eating fish oil. They're riding so many bikes.
It's too much. It's too much. It's unbelievable. So okay
for miscarriages, And then how did you finally come to
the decision that a surrogate was going to be your road?
And then tell me about I think there was surrogacy
loss situation because you were doing this in New York
(07:45):
and there was probably a ton of barriers. I mean,
I say, wasn't legal in New York unless you're related
to the person, And I'm like, that is And it
only became legal I think last year. Yeah, June was
last year. So when I sort of went through this
n and started talking about it. I was on Wendy
Williams talking about it, and Andy Cohen saw the interview
(08:06):
and he reached out to me and he's like, I
have been trying to lobby for surrogacy in New York.
It's in the budget. I need people on board. They're
trying to make it like a rich thing, a gay things,
just like so ridiculous. And so I went to all
of me with him and a bunch of other fears,
asked people just the stories. You know. It wasn't exhausting
(08:29):
being out for eight hours just talking to people. It
was exhausting, like living through people's grief all over again.
And we've all been on this other side of it
where we're like, Okay, now we can look back and
talk about it. And now you have like this elevator
pitch for your your trauma, which is what you need
to go into these rooms to make sure happen. And
it was like just fucking bananas, because I was like, yeah,
(08:50):
I've narrowed it down to six sentences or less to
try and keep people's attention. So I was like, I
see all of you, and it was really bananas. And
I even you know so hard not to cry every
damn and but I was like, God, where were you
people when I was going through this because there was
no one to talk to, which was so crazy for
me because I know way too many people. How do
(09:10):
I have not one person I could talk to about this,
not even my therapist. Why it's really, it's so ridiculous
and it and it happens more than we know. Oh yeah,
and and honestly, it's why I'm so appreciative of you
being so open. Gabrielle Union was on last year and
she had a surrogate, but she has U dinometriosis and
(09:33):
she got the help that she needed because Lena Dunham
has the same thing and posted something about it. So
Gabrielle reached out to Lena and was like, please help,
and Lena like and so it's like you keep paying
it forward, you know what I mean. Now that you've
made this step, it's like, now you influence other people.
So oh of course, oh my gosh, of course you do.
(09:56):
Um Okay, So how did you find your surrogate? How
was the pregnancy experience? Was it insane? Like Ted, tell
tell me about that, Tell me about the whole journey.
Of like actually getting her pregnant. All of this, um well,
(10:16):
um well, when you do I V f right. You
have to go to the clinic at least three days
a week for sonogram's blood tests, pay for your medicine
out of pocket. You just feel like you're Carmela Soprano
and you're like Tony any money, you know, and it's
just like ridiculous. And so after the last miscarriage, my doctors,
(10:41):
who are amazing, We're like, we want you to walk
out of this office pregnant far along and they were
so great, but my body was just so tired that
I was like I can't do this anymore and I
don't know what to do. And then they sit you
down and give you the pamphlet with surrogacy and you're
like what is this? And my doctor worked with a
(11:04):
couple of surgacy agencies that he really trusted, and so
I just I was like the girl who just got
the license at the car dealership. I'm like, tell me
where to go and tell me what to do. I
can't make any more decisions for myself, and so I
just called up this agency and it was really hard
to just even get an appointment. I was like, oh
my god, how long is this gonna take. It's still
a whole step. And as things started to happen and
(11:28):
we were meeting and they were like, do you have
any more questions? It's sort of like going back to
work with COVID. I can't think of questions for something
that's never happened before. So it's really just as we
go along, and then there's some questions. It's so personal
you're like, am I even allowed to ask? As you know,
(11:50):
it is a very weird, wild emotional experience um going
through surrogacy without even knowing anyone that's done it. It
feels like you're on a roller coaster ride in the dark,
but people keep telling you it's gonna be beautiful, don't worry,
(12:10):
keep holding on, but you don't know when the next
thing happens. It's a it's a huge miracle of fact
that anyone is born. Remember that when you have grown rage.
The fact that anyone if born is crazy, you know
what I mean. It's just like, oh damn, mo, I'm
went through something I know and I'm so I'm sitting
here just thinking, like my god, like this is a
(12:33):
fucking journey. It was weird and everyone I know who's
had IVF or even just egg freezing, the hormonal ship
of Yeah, like getting your drugs and then having your
partner or yourself or whoever putting them into your body
and then feeling sick and bloated and all this, and
you did that so many times, and then to go
(12:54):
through a surrogacy um agency, I mean unbelievab Well, so
how did you check in with your surrogate? We spoke
every day. I would check in with her every day
to see how she was feeling. Because at this point
when the babies were born, I felt like I had
already met them. When I was like going through IBM,
(13:15):
between the miscarriages and everything, I was like, I need
to meet these souls. You know, did you everything twins
was a possibility? How did that information come your way?
I did not know what was in store. I knew
that we had um some embryos bank. I knew that.
(13:37):
In terms of being safe about it and being sure
about it, it's like, let's put it, yes, exactly, let's
put in a few because the chances and the odds,
and you know, one takes, one might not take ex exactly.
It's kind of gross how people think we just wake
up and we're just like, I don't want to ruin
(13:59):
my body and I have money to spend. It's either
kids or a boat, So let's get a kid with
curly hair and make sure it's like that's not what
we're out here doing. This is like a last ditch
effort of I really hope I get to make this
family happen and meet these souls that we've worked so
hard to have, right, and so yeah, I mean it
(14:20):
was just so crazy, like proper educated people asking me
was like plaques on the wall making important decisions, asking
me stuff like that, you know, like you know, it's
just so crazy. Yeah, people are people just don't understand
what it is or how it works because we're people
(14:42):
are so selfish and never think outside of their like
five mile radius in their head to say, oh, I
don't want that, but you do, so it's still worthy
and it's like, what the fuck? So when did you
(15:08):
get the call that it was twins? Was it around
the twelve week mark or something? Yeah, I think it
was a couple of weeks, but it was because there
was some bleeding. You We're like, oh no, in my mind,
I'm like, here we go again. But when we did
an ultrasound, there was two heartbeats and I was like what.
But like, even up until the second they were born,
I was like, I don't want the other shoe to
(15:30):
fucking drop right right, because you've had you been through
such trauma that you were like, there's no way this
is going to work out. There's no way. It hasn't
worked out up until now. So like at some point
some ship is going to hit the fan that is
unexpected or whatever. I have felt that so many I mean,
I had miscarriages and stuff like that before. Um does
(15:50):
it ever leieve you though? I mean you, yes, yes,
for sure. I mean and even going through this year.
I pregnant during the pandemic and it was just hard
being pregnant and isolated and even my labor, I was like,
something's going to go horribly wrong, right, Like, something's gonna
go horribly wrong. There's no way that like you know, um, hello,
(16:16):
here's my child. Hey, Albi, I'm busy talking to my
friend Michelle. Okay, okay, we love you. Have a good
day at school. All be just started school too, Oh
my goodness, two weeks ago. I'll be this is my
friend Michelle. Hi, ok are you what did he say? Hi?
(16:38):
Poopy Michelle, You're welcome. We're big at the body talk
right now. I had a good poopy too, Thanks for asking.
She had a good poopy too, Thanks for asking, she said, yeah,
I'll come tune. You can't. Started school also, and in
two days was sick. Two days, I hold, my husband
(17:01):
got a cold, my baby got a cold. I was like,
is this a joke? This is what we're and also
is it COVID? And are we freaking out? And what
are we doing? And everyone told me, your kid's gonna
get sick in the first two weeks. Oh my goodness.
So it's for as far as school is concerned, Like,
how did your kids adjust to being in school with
other kids being around? It was so hard And this
(17:21):
is the personal decision for me. But I was trying
to find a daycare where they weren't required to wear
masks because they're two years old. I'm in the same
boat his his doesn't require masks either. Yeah, So the
fact that I found one, I'm like dope. And then
it was a whole kitten caboodle of just like they
better be nice to my children. Are there are there
cameras But they weren't cameras, but they sent you updates
(17:42):
and there's an I'm like, send me updates all the time.
So I was like that bitch, and I was like,
oh they like it. Look at them porn stuff and
listening and doing yoga and um yeah. They were the
only two in the class, and I was like, where
the rest of the kids. They're like, oh, this is it.
The whole point was for them to be socialized. No way,
there are no kids in the class. There's no kids
(18:04):
in the class. And like, why am I saying there
with no peanut butter if there's no kids in the class.
So finally there's another kid, but he's only there, he's
there part time. Where are the children? Where are they are?
They all sick with the same cold that you gave
your kids and they'll be back next week. No, there's
you know, it's so fun. There's like a twenty four
(18:26):
month cut off and then like a two year old thing,
so all the kids, I have a fun twenty four
months under That's why I'm like, this month is bullshit,
that's not true. I I mean, I'm really whatever my school.
I'm not trying to be like my school's better, but
it's not. But I'm just saying probably it's mixed age
and I and I fucking love it because my child
(18:48):
is such like needs um. Although God like you have twins,
they had each other during the pandemic. My child became
a nightmare. But it was alone the entire pandemic, and
the sun moon stars sets on this fucking kid and
it's like he is needs to go to school, like
he got bit yesterday, and I was thrilled about it.
(19:08):
I was like for a little boy. They were fighting
over a toy and a little boy like used his
teeth not he didn't even break this like it wasn't
a bad one. But I was like, yes, like my
child needs to get out there and learn this ship
like you can't hit your friends, you gotta fight over toys.
You gotta learn to use your words, like I can't
teach you that by yourself. That's you know what. I'm
(19:29):
the only child, and I was I was just like,
I hope to have siblings because it was so much
I had to figure out by myself on that playground. Okay,
you find out it's twins even on their birth you
were like this ship is not going to work out.
Something's gonna go something. I hope this ship works out,
is what I was saying. But like baby girl came
(19:49):
right out, Baby boy was reached. You know. Even then
after like you don't sleep in the in the hospital,
You're just looking at them and then like you fall
asleep standing up like a horse. Started getting like all
these like ailments. My ankles hurt, my knees hurt. You know,
I had sciatica, and my husband's like, we have to
put them in their room and you need to fucking sleep.
(20:11):
I just was so paranoid. I had to like look
in the crib every noise they made to make sure
they're gonna be okay. Of course, of course, did you
do the first bunch of weeks alone? Did you have
a night nurse? Did you have any help? We were
alone and I was doing like the adult NG podcast,
and I did like a Drew Barrymore movie, and weren't
you doing? Um? I think you were doing Always Be
(20:33):
My Maybe, which I've also seen, and you were amazing
and your character was fully pregnant. It was literally that
week that the surrogate was getting transferred with the embryos, right, yeah,
it was the week where I shot the scene where
I had given birth where she was getting her transfer,
and I was like, wow, this is crazy. I was
(20:56):
like just so wild and thank god weed's legal and
bank over and not like I bought it, but I
was like, it's good to have options. I just got
a seafood tower and cried it's here. So how did
you feel when you first laid eyes on them? Was
it an immediate love at first sight? Did it feel real?
Did you feel outside of yourself? It still doesn't feel real.
(21:18):
It's such a weird combination of like, I love you,
your mind, I don't know you, who are you? You
picture them when you like are in the cute phase
with your partner, and then you see them, You're like,
what the funk? That's not what I thought. But it's
still so much better, But also what the So it's
still I still feel like no one can do it
better than me, and I still feel like I have
(21:38):
no idea what I'm doing, Like all at the same time,
and I don't know how to describe it any other
way was pretty perfect. I know you, but I don't
know you at all. And I know what I'm doing,
but I don't know what I'm doing at all, Like
it's really that is it? It's really what it is? Now?
How um, how was it taking care of wins? You know, twins,
(22:02):
no matter how old they are, you never really feel
like you're giving them enough attention because um one, like
baby girls definitely more outgoing than baby boy, but because
we're always like clapping for her because she's doing a dance,
like I want to make sure that baby boy knows
that he's also you know, just yes, and so it's
(22:25):
a lot of that. And also you know, she was
sick first and then she gave it to him like
child fleet. But she likes to be held more than him,
but he needs to be held now that but he's
the heavier one. So they have very different temperaments. They
have very different temperaments. Do they play differently? Like do
they are they? You know, I don't know. But what
(22:49):
I is there like a big difference between girl boy
stuff right now? Is she like super into girl like
a doll and that sort of thing, and he's more
into trucks? Do you is that existing in her household?
For sure? I mean she's into all this stuff, she's
also into anything he's into. I don't know, there's a
whole god damn room of plastic for her to play with.
(23:11):
She is very aware that are there are people around
and likes to entertain, which is wild like rolling her
eyes and can't say sentences, but has whole less opinions.
Did she come out first or second? She came out first.
So even in daycare, he'll cry when we drop him off,
but she's like, let's go, motherfucker, these people like us
and we'll like take his hand and like be like shush, shush. Yeah.
(23:35):
So she's a really good old sister, even though even
by sixteen minutes. But um and and he's just like
a thoughtful, quiet, definitely only child. Is that like you
and your husband? Well, she has the outgoing parts of
both of us. Chis was very outgoing when he was little.
Um and then sort of become he became like this quiet,
(23:58):
I want to be behind the camera and a photographer. Dude. Um.
You know has had the same friends for thirty years,
and I'm just like, you know, all right, like I
just freaks and Gates man, come on over. You know.
I'm obsessed with twins. I mean we my husband like
always wanted twins and I know you don't know. Yeah,
(24:19):
I was like, no, you're gonna understand that, Like how
fucking hard that is. I mean, it's a lot of
I think for twins to No one told me that, Um,
I would feel like I'm in a factory. Like sometimes
I feel like that Lucy o ball like chocolate factory,
just like you're just constantly putting out meals, You're constantly
(24:39):
cleaning up meals, You're constantly cleaning this mess up, putting
that out. Like it's just because that's how my life feels.
And I have one three and a half and a baby,
but I can't imagine two at the same age. Um,
do you ever talk about the future? Like are they
going to be in the same school? Are they going
to be in separate schools? Like, how do you feel
about that twins stuff? You? For me, I would love
(25:00):
for them to be in the same room and the
same school and have each other's back and ship like
that and always have a witness and you can on
this person your whole fucking life. But I know that's
not reality. I mean, I feel like they're gonna be
definitely in different schools, although I would love for them
to be in this Oh, gosh, um, okay, did you
go back to work right away when they were born?
(25:23):
Kind of? I don't know why. I thought, I'm gonna
bring twins home. I won't be doing the road, so
I'll have time to write a book. The fun was
I thinking, Oh my god, I don't know why I
said that. I don't know why. And then I would
beat myself up for taking a nap and not writing
the book. And I'm just like, do I need to
take the shower right now? And everyone's like, yes, we
can spell you. And so it was such a weird
(25:45):
come to Jesus of like, am I selfish? If I
go off in a room and do this thing? And
then I would hear them cry and I'm like, but
this is how you hold her, and they're like, go away.
I don't even remember what your question was. My question
is how has it been like going back to work
work life balance? Do you have that? I don't know
anyone that does, so, No, it's fine. I'm wondering that
(26:09):
you have the secret to that. No, I don't know
what that is. I try to like make hardlines for myself,
but you know what I would really love to do,
and it's hard, right to pandemic. I would love to
take a girl's trip word trip on myself, just to
feel like I got this. But there's still so much
stuff you have to do before you leave. Oh my god,
he just prepping the family for you to be gone
(26:31):
is almost not worth it sometimes, like it's like no,
it's like just to set up your fucking household to
run when you're not there because you do so much
ship so to fill in other people on what you do,
Like just this morning, to be able to record this
podcast at eight am. Our morning routine is different than
what it normally is, and it is a fucking ship
(26:52):
show out there, like and I'm like, everybody just fucking survived.
And that's one hour. But normally do the mornings, you know.
So my son's screaming, he's so upset. The dad's waking
him up and it's not me. And I did all
the things. I packed the lunch last night, I put
out his breakfast for this morning, fucking last night, SHU,
that wouldn't go bad, Like everything set up ridiculous and
(27:16):
still ridiculous, ridiculous. And that's like imagine a trip. It's
like I don't even I want one too. I would
like to sleep in. All I want to do is
sleep in. That's all I want. Even till seven, even
till seven thirty would be an absolute miracle. Can you
tell me, um, what's something you've discovered about guys as
(27:37):
a father? Do you match each other's strengths and weaknesses?
She's giving me a face you guys can see, she's
giving me a face like face like, what the who? No,
I mean, we're working on it. I think we didn't
realize how opposite we were. Well, you come from such
(28:01):
different backgrounds to like, Okay, so he's Dutch, he's Dutch,
I'm American. Dutch people are way more laid back and
lenient with their kids to sort of wasn't in the
New York Times about how you're a hell you're more helicopter.
He's much more laid back, which, okay, tell me or
(28:24):
is that a huge source of tension between you guys.
I mean he was right there with me too, but
it wasn't his body that we had a prep to go,
you know, through this surgery or through this thing or
through that you know procedure. Yes, and so you know,
we definitely compliment each other where I'm just like he's
gonna hit her head with that rock. Just watch and
(28:45):
he's like, no, it's no. And then sure enough, I'm like,
see how you stone rocks? And then he's like, let
them run. They'll stop at the edge of the sea wall.
You'll see. And I'm like will I He's like sand
us soft. I'm like is it? So it also get
caught in your eye for all of time? So um,
we do complement each other in that way. But you know,
(29:07):
I didn't realize that I would become like this, like
Everyone Loves Raymond episode where I'm getting the kids ready
for daycare and I'm making two breakfasts and two lunches
at the same time, and I finally get to sit
on the couch while I'm doing something. Of course, I'm
giving them kisses and I'm just like, I love you.
And then he'll bust out with the well, where is
(29:30):
my breakfast? Don't you love me? And I'm like, where
the funk is my breakfast? Where the funk are my waffles?
So you know what I mean. So I feel like,
you know, I think we thought we had it all
figured out, especially looking at all our friends who are
fun ups have babies. We're like we're cool, We're not
gonna do it like that. But here we are deep
(29:51):
in quarantine, you know, trying to figure out who we
are as parents together our relationship with them. Also didn't
even think of all the relationships that spawn in the family.
The kids are not the same with me as they
are with him, as they are with the both of us.
That's definitely true, and so you know, we have definitely
taken tons of moments to be like, how do we
(30:12):
fix this? There's always a partner who feels like they're
being forgotten, and they're not just that other person isn't
even taking care of themselves. They're just like trying to
get through it. I feel like you and I are
very in the similar boats in our relationships. Oh my god.
Like I'm far more of a helicopter parent and my
(30:37):
husband is far more like laid back and relax But
my husband's also better at discipline than I am. Who
is that in your relationship? I think both. I think
both because he speaks touch to them and I speak
English to them. So you know, so he only speaks
touch to them. That's fucking amazing, Like it's good. So
(31:00):
that's why there's speech is a bit delayed, But I'm
cool with that. No, it's fine. I have like so
many families who are doing similar things, who have three
and a half year olds, and there it's great. It's
like their speech might be a little bit delayed and
then they're all of a sudden speaking two languages and
you're like, ha ha, yeah, fuck you. I know. I know.
(31:21):
Seth Meyers the other night was just like, do you
ever feel like they're gonna be talking behind your back?
I'm like, do it. Thank god, I don't need to
be a part of everyday of conversation. Figure it out.
(31:43):
What have you found to be your strengths as a mom? Um?
Oh god, to say something nice about myself, yes, come on, Michelle,
you deserve it. I mean, I'm I'm a hustler. I
guess it done, and I make people feel good at
(32:04):
you know that that's my gift in life. And so
I feel like if my kids are talking about me
on a podcast forty years from now, you know, I know,
definitely the're gonna be like my mom loves this ship
out of me, maybe too much? Are you a fun,
playful parent? Like I'm not. I'm like terrible at that.
My husband like like I love I'm a produced oreal mom, right,
(32:27):
So I love you know, making sure everyone's safe and
needs are met and like all of that. But when
my son is like, let's play hide and see it,
I'm like I want to blow my brains out. Or
or if he's like I want to make a craft
or something, I'm like, oh fucking fuck. Like I know
that paint is so especially when it's not for me,
but some mothers love it, like they really do. I mean,
(32:51):
where are you at on that? I'm a little bit
of both. I definitely like to produce, Like I love Pinterest,
I love toddler meals. I love figuring out what they
like to eat, and like seeking in the vegetables. I
got that ship down that it is. Then I also like,
you know, trying to figure out how to make them
(33:11):
do big girl and big boy stuff, like isn't that fun?
Look at that hamper? That hamper. So yes, you know
a little bit of both. But um, I also like
when people take over and play with them and they
have like a moment and experience with them. But um,
I've been told by my mom, who was not that person.
My mom like will teach me how to she taught
(33:33):
me how to balance a checkbook and went my butt.
She was not trying to be out here singing Patty
Cake with me, you know, or even her lover. But
you know what I mean. But um, she has told me,
and a few of my friends have told me, they're
just like, you're just hard to follow, you know you.
I could watch you do the alphabit all goddamn day.
I can't do this with you, and I'm like, just
(33:55):
puttal effort into it, make it your own. So I
am fun, but not all the fun time. Dear kids
think you're funny. I don't know. I think so because
they laugh at me when I'm trying to be strict
with them. You know, I don't know what it's like
having someone looks like a lion just like yell at you. Yeah,
(34:16):
I'm oh my god, I can't. I can't imagine you
being like really good at being strict. But I'm but
I'm trying, because I'm out here horrible at it. I
am trying. Yeah, I have to do it with Hazel
more than anyone else because I give her the count
of three. I do the count of three to which
is a great tool. And I never ever thought i'd
(34:40):
be account to three. Mom. Ever, I'm such a fucking hippie.
I was like, no, I don't believe in this stuff,
like absolutely, like we're all just free loving and out here,
you know, forest here for flute here. And then my
son is such a challenger and tester and boundary breaker
and hates authority and rules and I have had to
(35:04):
learn real quick, like he has a stick and he's
about to smash someone in the face with it, and
I'm like, I'm about I'm giving you to the count
of three, or I'm taking that stick away, where I'm
taking television away or whatever, like I've become the consequences.
Time ends. It's really just just time fucking out. But
I'm trying. Wow, I never thought i'd be the corner mom.
(35:27):
I'm like, we're going to the corner. It's great. She'll
take her milk and pour it out while looking at me.
I'm like, are you a psychopath? Oh no, but that's
my hutest psychopath I've ever seen. Yeah, that's my son.
Like sitting on the pool steps and me being like,
if you drink pool water one more time, and he
literally stares down the barrel like into my soul and
takes a huge pail of water while he drinks it.
(35:50):
It's so crazy, that's their job. Like Hazel will put
in bathtime, She'll pour water all over Otis and he's
just out here trying to play with the red car
Ah and then he starts crying and like, I really
want to take water important on her and be like
did you like it? But I haven't done that yet.
I might because I'm just like I can't keep pulling
(36:11):
her out of the bathtub because it's so hard. We
just had someone on the podcast who's like, teach them
how it makes someone else feel. I mean, that's what's
so great about her having a twin. I've been trying
this new thing. I'll let you know if it works.
Where when my son is a dick to my four
month old, not a twin, and she starts to make upset,
(36:33):
I'm like, look at her face. She looks really upset,
Like do you see that? You know, we don't want
to have our friend or our family look upset. But
it's really fucking hard because they just want attention and
they don't care if it's good or bad. It's all
the same to them. So the fact that she dumps
water on Otis's head and then the whole world like
(36:54):
gets shooken up in her face like she's like, yes,
this is fucking awesome. I I know, I mean there's
not enough rose, Like just give me an ivy, you know,
I completely agree. Can you can you tell me about
like diaper duty with twins, how do you split up
(37:14):
the responsibilities any other thing I'm curious about, how do
you split it up? You don't. I mean again, he's
more laid back, so he'll wait till like a diaper's
falling off. Practically, Oh god, that would fucking kill me.
It it um. You know, stress makes me sick. So
(37:35):
I'm really trying to pick my motherfucking battles because you know,
if he's loading the dishwasher, and I know he's a
good person, then I have to hold onto that he does.
He takes a trash out like I'm trying, you know,
and he is hard, like he hates hoop diapers. He'll
do it, He's done it, he will do it, but
he can't breathe. He starts a gag, and I'm just like,
(37:57):
get me in there, you know, like because for me, again,
I want to give the kids a good experience. I
don't want them to be like, you know, I don't
like this because they don't like it. You know, I'm
just like, look at you, you had a good as
let's see. Yeah, I'm like those are those veggie muffins
and trying to make it a good experience. You don't
want them to have your such a great mom, Like
(38:20):
I can really tell I love that you've even given
thought to like the diapering situation, where it's like, if
I've got good vibes about the ship and pe, then
they're going to have good vibes. Look, it's a big
thing because my mom trying to teach me how to
put a tamp on in and she it was like
she had to walk like a tight rope. It was
(38:41):
like she was that scene of like, um, what is
it called Indiana Indiana Jones where she was like which
cup did Jesus have? I Huh? She's like, God, what
are we gonna do for when that happens? Can you
tell me what are we gonna do? Well? Probably tamplus
will be obsolete anyway, You're already even like a cup
(39:02):
in your lunch box. Don't lose them, but um do
you have any tips from your own journey for moms
out there who are struggling to concede can see Oh yeah,
yeah I do. UM. Research is your best tool. You know,
(39:25):
if you can't get it done in your state or
even your neighborhood, it doesn't mean that you can't get
it done elsewhere. You have options basically. And one thing
my friend Jordan's wife, well, Jordan's wife told me when
I was down and out a lot, She's like, you're
a crazy bitch and you will get what you want.
That helped a lot. I held on to that and
Jordan told me, you've had bad days, but sometimes it
(39:50):
could be a happy ending. Don't forget that, And so
I remember that always as well. Um. But yeah, I mean,
I'm not a big research person, you know what I mean.
I'm not a Aaron Brockovitch. I'm not like, how dare
you say that, Sarah. I'm gonna go prove you wrong.
I'm not that bitch, you know. You tell me. I'm like, oh,
(40:12):
I'm sad. You mean I can't have kids, you know
what I mean? Like I A lot of us don't
know how to advocate for ourselves right, especially as women
and especially in the healthcare industry. It's like it's really
a lot of work, and it's a lot of being
talked at, and it's a lot of um people not
(40:35):
having the information and being exhausted and overwhelmed and not
even knowing where to go. And so, yes, you have
to have a little bit of Aaron Brockovich in there
to sort of not not let it stop you. Keep going,
keep seeing other specialists, keep asking friends about it, keep
if you And that's the thing, if you talk about it,
someone will have information that might yes, who and there
(41:00):
this way, who talked to this specialist, who talked to
this doctor, And it's like this is the ultimate recipe
exchange that needs to happen. You know what I mean?
Fucking cast roles, that's what That's what it is. That's
like what it is. Um. Okay, do you have any
general advice for our parent listeners about parenting right now? Yeah,
(41:25):
don't listen to people who don't know what the funk
they're talking about. You know who loves to tell you
what advice people who don't know what the funk they're
talking about. People are like, if you work less, if
you lost weight, if you it was always somehow my fault.
And I'm like, do you have a degree on your wall?
You know? No you don't. So that ship, you know,
(41:47):
it's like, yes, we have to talk to people, but
when you talk to people, they feel like they want
to give you some jankie acid advice or some ship
and uh that part. Don't listen to people. It's all
like grain of salt, you know, yea love that. Um
finish this sentence. Parenthood is so are as crazy as fun?
(42:19):
That's the Michelle Bouto quote I wanted is crazy as fun.
Put it on a T shirt, Put it on a magnet,
put it on a fucking magnet. Oh my, I hear
baby boy crying at my phone, like what is going on?
And um okay, so we'll have you on again, and
(42:40):
you're gonna tell me about when Otis and Hazel start
speaking like you and they are like they seek and
Dutch and then they're like, this is just fucking me
right right right here. They are actually, oh I thought
they were. See what are they doing? Hi? Hi you guys?
(43:03):
Hi you see it is hi? Oh my gosh, they
are Oh my gun Is. Look at that blue thing.
That's beautiful. Hi? Hi friends, Hi, Hazel hid at me. Um,
it's lunch shime. You're the best. You're the best. Thank
(43:26):
you so much for this. I hope you guys loved
that episode. I sure did. I want to hang out
with Michelle all the time and her amazing twins, and
I want to hear from you what topics you want
to discuss this season? What guests should we have on
(43:48):
You can always reach me at Katie's Crib at Shonda
land dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda
Land Audio in partnership with I heart Radio. For more
podcasts from Shonda Lanadi, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(44:16):
You never know never until you try me right,
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