July 11, 2023 • 24 mins
Success and growth can be a double-edged sword, leading to a cultural drift. Witnessing our team misaligning with values, formation of silos, and witnessing a rise in turnover can leave us blindsided and disheartened.
In this week's episode, Jenni discusses the intricate dynamics of managing cultural shifts in evolving organizations, shares insights into how to lead a team when it feels like your thriving culture has slipped away overnight, how to monitor team health as your organization grows, and how to shift from a culture that's merely absorbed to one that's intentionally imparted.
Resource
Culture Conference
Culture Conference is back and registration is now open. Mark your calendar for August 10th and register you, your team, and every leader you know to join us.
Culture Conference is a free digital conference designed to help you build thriving teams, cultivate inspiring workplaces, and achieve your mission. We have an amazing speaker line up, including Pat Gelsinger, CEO of Intel; Valorie Burton, Life Strategist and Bestselling Author, Josh Howerton, Senior Pastor of Lakepointe Church and New York Times bestselling author Author Jon Acuff - just to name a few!
Connect with Jenni
Have questions for us? Send us an email at podcast@get4sight.com and someone from the team will reach out and help you walk through your culture questions and talk through some of the dynamics that you're navigating, because this work matters. Connect with us on Facebook and Instagram @Get4Sight on LinkedIn at The4SightGroup, or on Threads at JenniCatron.
Your Next Step
Looking for even more leadership resources to help you and your team thrive this year? Sign up for Jenni’s free Insights newsletter at get4sight.com!
We need your help to get the LeadCulture podcasts in front of more leaders! There are three simple things you can do that truly help us:
- Review us on Apple podcasts
- Subscribe - we’re available wherever you listen to podcasts.
- Share - let your friends know about the podcast by sharing your favorite episode on social media!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenni Catron (00:01):
The Art of Leadership Network.
Well, hello friends, I'm yourJenni Catron , and this is the
Lead Culture Podcast, where Icoach you to lead yourself well
so you can lead others better.
(00:21):
My team and I at the 4SightGroup are committed to building
confident leaders, extraordinaryteams and thriving cultures.
Each week, we'll take a deepdive into a leadership or
culture topic that will give youthe tools you need to lead with
clarity and confidence andbuild a thriving team.
(00:42):
Before we get into today'sepisode, I want to make sure
that you are registered forCulture Conference.
Culture Conference is back andregistration is open.
Mark your calendar for August10th and register yourself,
register your team, registerevery leader you know.
Just say, hey, i just wentahead and signed you up because
(01:03):
I know you're going toappreciate this event.
Culture Conference is a freedigital conference designed to
help you build thriving teams,cultivate inspiring workplaces
and achieve your mission.
You guys, you know how powerfulit is when you have a team that
is aligned and workingeffectively together.
At least, i hope you know whatthat feels like.
(01:25):
It's always in a bit of a flux,right.
That's the nature of culture,but we want to help you keep
building that team that you areincredibly proud of and that
allows you to achieve yourmission.
So we have an amazing lineup ofspeakers Pat Gelsinger from
Intel, valerie Burton, who is abestselling author, josh
(01:45):
Howerton, who is senior pastorof Lake Point Church, new York
Times bestselling author, johnAcuff, my great friend Annie
Downs, and many more.
So mark your calendar, august10th, and go to
cultureconferenceorg to register.
And remember it is free to youbecause we have some amazing
(02:06):
sponsors, including our friendsat Clever.
So, busy leaders, you need tomeet Clever, a game-changing
agency for all your marketing,creative and communication needs
.
Their fractional workforceoffers expertise as well as
on-demand and ongoing projectsupport for all of your graphic
(02:26):
design, marketing, website andproduction needs.
We trust Clever with ourwebsite and they have exceeded
our expectations and feel like atrue extension of our team here
at Foresight.
So, with flexible 30-daycontracts and exceptional
results, clever delivers successwithout the high cost of
(02:48):
full-time hires.
You guys, we have used Cleverfor several years.
They actually help produce theculture conference and they're
also sponsoring it this year.
So if you need support inmarketing, creative
communication on website, etcetera, reach out to Clever at
weareclevercom, weareclevercom,or call or text 404-585-1953.
(03:14):
You can either reach out ontheir website at weareclevercom,
or text, or call at404-585-1953.
And be sure to thank them forsponsoring Culture Conference
this year.
Okay, so today I want to talkabout the conversation that I
have with a lot of leaders, whyyour culture is good until it's
(03:39):
not.
I talked to so many leaders whoare like gosh.
I felt like my culture wasgreat, like our team was
thriving, everything seemed likeit was going really well, and
then all of a sudden, i feellike overnight, things changed.
I wonder if you've had thatexperience too.
Right, it's like gosh, ithought everything was good And
then all of a sudden, likesomething happened and it feels
(04:01):
like we are just, you know, likeeverything kind of blew up, and
I hear that story a lot fromleaders.
Depending on the circumstances,there are always different
things that are contributing to,maybe, a culture that isn't as
healthy as we thought it is.
Sometimes it is some blindspots for us as leaders, which
is why we have our culture blindspot assessment on the website.
You've probably had a chance tocheck that out, but if not, go
(04:24):
to getforsightcom and right onthe top of the homepage is our
culture blind spot assessment,which is free for you to kind of
just do a quick check on wheremight we have some blind spots
in our organizational culture,and you know so.
The bigger and more complex ourorganizations get, the harder
it is for us, as senior leaders,to have a good pulse on the
(04:49):
health of our team.
And you guys, i have been there.
I have led teams from reallyjust myself when Foresight
started and now, where our teamis nearly a dozen, i led when I
was back at Crosspoint inNashville.
There were five of us when Icame on staff and then that team
grew to over 75 staff over thecourse of nine years, and so
(05:09):
there were many, many shifts andchanges.
When I was out at Menlo Park,we had over, i think, 125 on
staff.
And then, of course, we'veworked with teams from, you know
, just a couple of people onstaff, over 6,000, and one of
the big companies that we'vepartnered with on culture work,
and so I've seen it at alldifferent sizes and I've seen
(05:30):
the impact on culture in alldifferent ways.
But what I often find is thatthis dynamic of culture really
sneaks up on growingorganizations, and so what
typically happens is you startwith a small team of people that
you really like and you enjoyand you just want to be with.
That's how we start new things,right?
Whether you're an entrepreneurand you've started a business or
(05:53):
a nonprofit, maybe you're achurch planter, maybe you joined
a like I have in the past,maybe you joined a relatively
small team and you know we'reone of the early people on the
ground helping get thatorganization going, and you know
you hire people that you knowand are connected with.
(06:13):
A lot of times people will sayto me Jenny, how did you select
your coaches on the foresightteam?
And I was like, well, so farthat's been easy, because the
coaches that have joined me arepeople that I know trust, like
respect, i know they share thesame values that I hold, and so
I was able to recruit this firsthandful of coaches because of,
(06:37):
like, deep relationship andgreat connection.
That just made them a naturaland very obvious fit.
And so that's how most of ourorganizations start, like that
first little small batch ofpeople that are surrounding you
are people that you really know,enjoy, trust.
Maybe it's a friend of a friend, but who you're bringing to the
team is very chemistry driven,right, and so culture in this
(07:01):
stage is really a product ofchemistry, right, like it's the
people we enjoy being with whoend up making the team.
Now we're looking forcompetency, we're looking for
character, and so that chemistrypiece is there.
But for the initial stages oforganizational growth we often
consider culture and chemistryto be the same thing, and when
(07:24):
we do that, it ultimately getsus in trouble, and I'll explain
why more in a minute.
But what you intuitively valueis who you recruit to partner
with you, so all of yourdecision making, especially in
the early stages of growth, orwith a small team.
So you could even be a 20 yearold organization.
But if you just have a handfulof employees, because you're
(07:45):
kind of slow, steady, wins therace kind of approach to growth,
which is absolutely fine Whenyou have, like that small team
that's kind of how culture isformed Is that?
it's a product of just kind ofthose connections and chemistry,
and what you intuitively valueis who you recruit to partner
(08:07):
with you, so you're not overlythinking like the deep
convictions and values you hold,because you're intuitively
picking up on that, becauseyou're partnering with people
that you have a good bit ofrelationship with, and so this
is why for so many of yourorganizations, culture feels
great, right, like.
I know everybody.
I know how they think, i knowwhat they value, i know how they
(08:28):
work, i know that we're alignedon these things, and so Culture
really feels pretty good atthat stage.
Because what's happening inthose early stages is culture is
being formed.
Culture exists, whether weacknowledge it or not.
It's there, who we are and howwe work together.
That's happening.
We are shaping a culture, evenif there's a handful of us
(08:52):
around the table, but it'sformed without a lot of
conscious acknowledgment.
Now, some of you may be,because the topic of culture has
been much more mainstream andthe popular thing to do, and in
some ways, almost to itsdetriment.
But most of us are so focusedon the mission What are we
trying to achieve together thatwe're not giving as much
(09:14):
conscious acknowledgment toculture building.
Now, values also are beinginstilled, unintentionally.
You have them.
There are values that guide howyou work, whether they're
values that you really want tolive into or not.
Let me give you an example.
I have a high value ofself-leadership.
You've heard me say it beforelead yourself well to lead
(09:36):
others better.
I have a high value ofself-leadership, so I naturally
look for and gravitate to andconnect with people who share
that same value, people who arelearners, people who are growing
, people who are intentionalabout making themselves better.
I also, unintentionally, have avalue of scarcity.
Now, this is not a value that Iwant to hold to, so I have a
(10:01):
more conscious aspirationalvalue of generosity.
But when we're in these earlydays and we're not consciously
thinking about our culture orwhat we really want to instill,
those unintended values or thoseunconscious values will sneak
up and creep in.
So if I'm not conscious of mytendency towards scarcity, i
(10:25):
will nickel and dime everything.
I will play it way too safelybecause I don't want to fail,
and so I can unintentionally beinstilling those values into my
team.
I notice this sometimes for uswhen my team will be working on
a project and they might say butwe're going to have to invest a
(10:47):
little in this, and theirassumption will be that I don't
want to spend money on it, andI'm like, ah, there's where that
unintentional value of scarcitycreeps in, because if I am
operating out of that withoutthoughtfulness, i am instilling
that into our culture.
So there are values that arebeing instilled unintentionally,
(11:08):
and some of those are good andsome of them not so good, and so
this is one of those reasonswhy I think it's really
important that in these earlystages, we get more conscious
about how we're shaping culture.
What's also happening in theseearly stages is that we're
setting the expectations for howyou work, how you spend money.
So I kind of already hit onthat We're setting those
(11:28):
expectations for how you work,how you spend money and how you
treat one another, your team,whether it's two or 10, in this
early stage growth, they arepicking up their clues from you
on.
Here's how we work together toachieve our mission.
So you're setting thoseexpectations, whether you're
aware of it or not.
(11:49):
And what's also happening isthe legends of your culture are
being written, like some ofthose crazy audacious stories of
things you pulled off or youknow, just the outrageous ideas
or things that kind of get youmoving.
The legends of your culture arebeing written, and that's that
can be pretty fun.
But all of this stuff ishappening in this or these early
(12:11):
stages of growth, and what Iwant you to notice is how
critical it is that we becomemore conscious of shaping
culture, because we think it'snot a problem, because at this
stage, in these early stages,culture feels pretty great Again
because we've gathered peoplearound us who just get us right.
We've recruited and ralliedfriends and people we connect
(12:34):
with.
Well, not bad, but without moreconscious awareness can
actually create some fractureslater.
But what's going on here is itfeels great, culture feels great
.
It's not very formal, like youknow.
We don't have values written onthe wall or we don't have big
handbooks of how we worktogether, like none of that
(12:55):
stuff exists.
It's not formalized becauseit's just a handful of us and
we're figuring it out as we go.
The team really enjoys oneanother, everyone's involved in
everything in these early stagesAnd so culture is really caught
right.
Like it's just caught, like whowe are and how we work together
.
That's just caught.
It's just in the water, it'sjust what we do, and people
(13:16):
often join the team because ofthe culture.
They love the field, they lovethe camaraderie, they love the
community and connection.
That's happening right, likeall the good pie products of
good culture, and culture atthis stage also is a very much a
direct reflection of thefounder or visionary leader,
like the key leader in theorganization.
Culture is really a reflectionof that leader, so that all
(13:40):
feels awesome, right.
And remember we're talkingabout in this episode why
culture is great until it's notWell, as soon as your team kind
of eclipses.
About 12 staff members isusually where I see this start
to unravel.
Sometimes we hold it together alittle longer than that, But
about the time that we can't allsit around the table doing
everything together, you knowthat term, flock ball.
(14:00):
You know when a bunch of fiveyear olds are trying to play
soccer and they all just flockaround the ball and like there's
no strategy.
It's just like they all kind ofhover around the ball and you
know kind of get the ballsomewhere, but there's no.
No, they're not overlyintentional, They're not very
strategic, they're just kind ofall moving together as a group.
Well, that's how a lot of oursmall organizations operate.
(14:22):
And so as the organization grows, as the team expands, we start
to hit what we would callimpredictable success language.
We say it's, we've hit whitewater right, like we've hit the
rapids, like things are changing.
The business or theorganization is growing And all
of a sudden it doesn't feelgreat anymore And we're
scratching our head as leadersbecause we're like we've still
(14:44):
got all the same people, likeall the people that we used to,
you know, love and be connectedto and, you know, rallied with
us in those early days.
Most of them are still here.
However, we're starting to seesignificant turnover.
Right, all of a sudden, peopleare dropping off and leaving and
it's pretty unexpected to you,the leader, like you're like.
(15:05):
This is why it feels likeovernight right, like it felt
like things were good, and thenit feels like all of a sudden
overnight.
Now, the reality is this wasn'thappening overnight, that your
team were feeling it, and it wasone of those things that we as
leaders can be a little blind tobecause we're not, as like,
directly connected to it andfeeling the pain of it in the
(15:27):
same way.
And so we start to see thatsignificant turnover Staff are
doing things that feel a littlemisaligned with who we are and
what we value, and you know thethings that just you used to
intuitively do.
You're seeing misalignment withthat and it's super confusing,
right, like it just is superfrustrating for us as leaders
(15:50):
that staff do things that feelmisaligned And we're starting to
ask the questions of what inthe world is going on here.
We start to hear staffquestioning culture, right, like
, all of a sudden, their kind ofpoint and fingers are poking
holes into the thing that wethought was actually pretty good
, and that becomes reallydiscouraging.
(16:11):
We start to see silos emerging,right Like where teams are kind
of operating a little bitagainst each other, right Like
everybody used to be for eachother, and all of a sudden,
these little silos are emergingand everybody's kind of doing
their own thing, and what we'rerealizing at this point is that
culture is no longer beingcaught the way it was when there
(16:31):
were just a handful of us, andthat's when we have to really
move to culture being taught.
Now I get some pushback on thatthat leaders are like gosh, that
feels wrong.
You're like culture should beorganic and culture is just a
reflection of who we are.
And so how can you teachculture?
You can't really teach culture.
Culture just has to be caught.
Well, it's both and, and whathappens at this stage is that we
(16:57):
have to get more intentionaland really more conscious about
our culture, like who are we andhow do we work together to
achieve our mission?
And so, friends, that is whywe've got to give some
intentionality to our, to ourculture and to our, to a
(17:18):
definition of who we are and howwe work together to achieve
that mission, and so that's whatI want you to be thinking about
.
If you are one of those leaderswho's like gosh, my culture was
great until it wasn't Like whatdo I do with that?
Well, this is where I would sayto you it's time to do some
assessment of where your cultureis, and so this is part of the
(17:38):
process.
My team and I all of theforesight coaches have been
certified in our lead cultureframework, which is designed to
help you walk through thisprocess of moving from culture
just being caught to culturebeing taught, and you know what
happens This is the this is thekey ingredient here is that when
, once we get more purposefulabout our culture, then it does
(17:59):
get caught again, right, so thenit becomes both caught and
taught, and so what you want todo at this stage, if you're one
of those leaders who's like gosh, it was so good And now it's
not, and I don't know whatchanged, and I'm really
frustrated by that.
First of all, i get it, it'snot uncommon, and so you're
going through some of thosegrowing pains of a team
(18:19):
expanding, team, getting larger,and now you've got to put some
intentional effort into definingyour culture and living into a
culture plan.
There's some really fascinatingresearch about how all of us
believe that culture is good but, like, less than 10% of us have
a plan for our culture Right,like, if we think something is
(18:42):
worth working on, we usuallybuild a plan for it.
And so that's how we helpleaders is come alongside them
to build that culture plan.
So what we do when we're workingwith you is saying hey, we want
to assess what's your currentculture.
Now, we do that via surveys anddiscussions and different tools
and things.
Let's assess your currentculture.
What's your reality, both thosegood and not so good values
(19:05):
that you're kind ofunconsciously been instilling
into your culture, into yourteam.
So we assess our reality, likewhat's true, where are we?
Then we define what you want toaspire to like.
Who are we at our best?
That's one of the big questionswe ask.
And so defining what do wereally aspire to, and then we
help you build a plan to closethe gap between that actual
(19:28):
culture and the aspirationalculture.
Now, there's always a bit of anaspiration to culture, because
we're a bunch of messy humanstrying to do all of this work
together, and so we're.
We never perfect it, but theclearer we can be about what we
aspire to like.
What do we look like at ourbest?
And then we help you build aplan to live into that
(19:50):
aspiration, looking at differentways that we can help you
inspire that culture with thosevalues that are so critical, and
then looking for the differentrhythms and systems throughout
your organization and throughoutyour team that will help you do
that well.
And so I want to give you aquote from my friend, tim
(20:13):
Stevens.
Tim is the one of the executivepastors at Willow Creek
Community Church And I want toread for you what Tim had to say
about helping when Forsytehelped him with their
organizational culture.
He says in late 2020, our staffwas in a tough place.
(20:34):
Our team had carried the weightof a significant leadership
failure, the isolation of aprolonged pandemic shutdown and
demoralizing budget cuts whichled to layoffs.
We were in a tough place andour culture could only be
described as toxic.
Over the next year, wepartnered with the Forsyte Group
to help us assess our culture,discover shared values and begin
(20:57):
to plan the rhythms andbehaviors to help rebuild toward
a place of health.
Jenny Catrin and her team guidedme and my culture team each
step of the way.
We didn't need a quick fix, andtheir team offered us something
we couldn't find elsewhere Apartner to walk with us over a
prolonged period of time.
It's not perfect, but ourculture has completely turned
(21:19):
around and is beginning tothrive.
And so, friends, that is whatwe hope for as we partner with
you in culture, whether it's youlisten to our podcast, you
download our free resources oryou have us come and support you
and work directly with you.
My goal is to help you buildthat thriving and healthy
culture, because your missionmatters.
(21:41):
What you're doing matters sosignificantly, but it's hard to
do without a healthy team, andso that is why we want to
encourage you to keep leaninginto the health of your culture.
It matters, it's significantand it's really good and
important work.
So if you resonated today withthis idea that your culture was
(22:05):
good until, all of a sudden, itwasn't, i hope this got you
thinking.
Feel free to email me somequestions.
You can email me at podcast.
I get foresightcom and I wouldlove to answer your questions or
get someone from my team toreach out and help you walk
through, talk through some ofthe dynamics that you're
navigating, because this workmatters.
(22:26):
You guys, we're also in a timeand a space where employees
realize how critical it is.
They wanna be a part ofcultures that are compelling and
engaging and exciting and areon mission.
They wanna do purposeful workwith great teams, and that's
what great culture helps you do.
So I hope it got you thinkingtoday.
(22:48):
Let me know what you thought.
What are some of your questions?
Email me atpodcastgetforsightcom or find us
on Instagram at getforsight, oryou can find me at Jenny Catrin
on all the social channels,including the brand new threads.
I just signed up there so we'llsee how that goes.
And friends, i would love it Ifthis was helpful, if maybe this
(23:10):
got you thinking about anotherorganization that maybe your
friend works at or that youvolunteer for, or you're
connected within some way andyou're like gosh, this is what
they're experiencing.
Send it their way and tell themto check it out And then, if
you haven't done it yet, wouldyou leave that five star review?
I would so appreciate it.
It is a great help to us toknow how we're doing.
(23:30):
That's one of those littlemeasurements that helps us know
how are we doing in serving you.
So stay connected.
Let us know how we can serveyou.
Email me atpodcastgetforsightcom and I will
see you next week.
Thanks for listening and keepleading well.
The Art of Leadership Network.
Well, hello friends, I'm yourJenni Catron , and this is the
Lead Culture Podcast, where Icoach you to lead yourself well
so you can lead others better.
(00:21):
My team and I at the 4SightGroup are committed to building
confident leaders, extraordinaryteams and thriving cultures.
Each week, we'll take a deepdive into a leadership or
culture topic that will give youthe tools you need to lead with
clarity and confidence andbuild a thriving team.
(00:42):
Before we get into today'sepisode, I want to make sure
that you are registered forCulture Conference.
Culture Conference is back andregistration is open.
Mark your calendar for August10th and register yourself,
register your team, registerevery leader you know.
Just say, hey, i just wentahead and signed you up because
(01:03):
I know you're going toappreciate this event.
Culture Conference is a freedigital conference designed to
help you build thriving teams,cultivate inspiring workplaces
and achieve your mission.
You guys, you know how powerfulit is when you have a team that
is aligned and workingeffectively together.
At least, i hope you know whatthat feels like.
(01:25):
It's always in a bit of a flux,right.
That's the nature of culture,but we want to help you keep
building that team that you areincredibly proud of and that
allows you to achieve yourmission.
So we have an amazing lineup ofspeakers Pat Gelsinger from
Intel, valerie Burton, who is abestselling author, josh
(01:45):
Howerton, who is senior pastorof Lake Point Church, new York
Times bestselling author, johnAcuff, my great friend Annie
Downs, and many more.
So mark your calendar, august10th, and go to
cultureconferenceorg to register.
And remember it is free to youbecause we have some amazing
(02:06):
sponsors, including our friendsat Clever.
So, busy leaders, you need tomeet Clever, a game-changing
agency for all your marketing,creative and communication needs
.
Their fractional workforceoffers expertise as well as
on-demand and ongoing projectsupport for all of your graphic
(02:26):
design, marketing, website andproduction needs.
We trust Clever with ourwebsite and they have exceeded
our expectations and feel like atrue extension of our team here
at Foresight.
So, with flexible 30-daycontracts and exceptional
results, clever delivers successwithout the high cost of
(02:48):
full-time hires.
You guys, we have used Cleverfor several years.
They actually help produce theculture conference and they're
also sponsoring it this year.
So if you need support inmarketing, creative
communication on website, etcetera, reach out to Clever at
weareclevercom, weareclevercom,or call or text 404-585-1953.
(03:14):
You can either reach out ontheir website at weareclevercom,
or text, or call at404-585-1953.
And be sure to thank them forsponsoring Culture Conference
this year.
Okay, so today I want to talkabout the conversation that I
have with a lot of leaders, whyyour culture is good until it's
(03:39):
not.
I talked to so many leaders whoare like gosh.
I felt like my culture wasgreat, like our team was
thriving, everything seemed likeit was going really well, and
then all of a sudden, i feellike overnight, things changed.
I wonder if you've had thatexperience too.
Right, it's like gosh, ithought everything was good And
then all of a sudden, likesomething happened and it feels
(04:01):
like we are just, you know, likeeverything kind of blew up, and
I hear that story a lot fromleaders.
Depending on the circumstances,there are always different
things that are contributing to,maybe, a culture that isn't as
healthy as we thought it is.
Sometimes it is some blindspots for us as leaders, which
is why we have our culture blindspot assessment on the website.
You've probably had a chance tocheck that out, but if not, go
(04:24):
to getforsightcom and right onthe top of the homepage is our
culture blind spot assessment,which is free for you to kind of
just do a quick check on wheremight we have some blind spots
in our organizational culture,and you know so.
The bigger and more complex ourorganizations get, the harder
it is for us, as senior leaders,to have a good pulse on the
(04:49):
health of our team.
And you guys, i have been there.
I have led teams from reallyjust myself when Foresight
started and now, where our teamis nearly a dozen, i led when I
was back at Crosspoint inNashville.
There were five of us when Icame on staff and then that team
grew to over 75 staff over thecourse of nine years, and so
(05:09):
there were many, many shifts andchanges.
When I was out at Menlo Park,we had over, i think, 125 on
staff.
And then, of course, we'veworked with teams from, you know
, just a couple of people onstaff, over 6,000, and one of
the big companies that we'vepartnered with on culture work,
and so I've seen it at alldifferent sizes and I've seen
(05:30):
the impact on culture in alldifferent ways.
But what I often find is thatthis dynamic of culture really
sneaks up on growingorganizations, and so what
typically happens is you startwith a small team of people that
you really like and you enjoyand you just want to be with.
That's how we start new things,right?
Whether you're an entrepreneurand you've started a business or
(05:53):
a nonprofit, maybe you're achurch planter, maybe you joined
a like I have in the past,maybe you joined a relatively
small team and you know we'reone of the early people on the
ground helping get thatorganization going, and you know
you hire people that you knowand are connected with.
(06:13):
A lot of times people will sayto me Jenny, how did you select
your coaches on the foresightteam?
And I was like, well, so farthat's been easy, because the
coaches that have joined me arepeople that I know trust, like
respect, i know they share thesame values that I hold, and so
I was able to recruit this firsthandful of coaches because of,
(06:37):
like, deep relationship andgreat connection.
That just made them a naturaland very obvious fit.
And so that's how most of ourorganizations start, like that
first little small batch ofpeople that are surrounding you
are people that you really know,enjoy, trust.
Maybe it's a friend of a friend, but who you're bringing to the
team is very chemistry driven,right, and so culture in this
(07:01):
stage is really a product ofchemistry, right, like it's the
people we enjoy being with whoend up making the team.
Now we're looking forcompetency, we're looking for
character, and so that chemistrypiece is there.
But for the initial stages oforganizational growth we often
consider culture and chemistryto be the same thing, and when
(07:24):
we do that, it ultimately getsus in trouble, and I'll explain
why more in a minute.
But what you intuitively valueis who you recruit to partner
with you, so all of yourdecision making, especially in
the early stages of growth, orwith a small team.
So you could even be a 20 yearold organization.
But if you just have a handfulof employees, because you're
(07:45):
kind of slow, steady, wins therace kind of approach to growth,
which is absolutely fine Whenyou have, like that small team
that's kind of how culture isformed Is that?
it's a product of just kind ofthose connections and chemistry,
and what you intuitively valueis who you recruit to partner
(08:07):
with you, so you're not overlythinking like the deep
convictions and values you hold,because you're intuitively
picking up on that, becauseyou're partnering with people
that you have a good bit ofrelationship with, and so this
is why for so many of yourorganizations, culture feels
great, right, like.
I know everybody.
I know how they think, i knowwhat they value, i know how they
(08:28):
work, i know that we're alignedon these things, and so Culture
really feels pretty good atthat stage.
Because what's happening inthose early stages is culture is
being formed.
Culture exists, whether weacknowledge it or not.
It's there, who we are and howwe work together.
That's happening.
We are shaping a culture, evenif there's a handful of us
(08:52):
around the table, but it'sformed without a lot of
conscious acknowledgment.
Now, some of you may be,because the topic of culture has
been much more mainstream andthe popular thing to do, and in
some ways, almost to itsdetriment.
But most of us are so focusedon the mission What are we
trying to achieve together thatwe're not giving as much
(09:14):
conscious acknowledgment toculture building.
Now, values also are beinginstilled, unintentionally.
You have them.
There are values that guide howyou work, whether they're
values that you really want tolive into or not.
Let me give you an example.
I have a high value ofself-leadership.
You've heard me say it beforelead yourself well to lead
(09:36):
others better.
I have a high value ofself-leadership, so I naturally
look for and gravitate to andconnect with people who share
that same value, people who arelearners, people who are growing
, people who are intentionalabout making themselves better.
I also, unintentionally, have avalue of scarcity.
Now, this is not a value that Iwant to hold to, so I have a
(10:01):
more conscious aspirationalvalue of generosity.
But when we're in these earlydays and we're not consciously
thinking about our culture orwhat we really want to instill,
those unintended values or thoseunconscious values will sneak
up and creep in.
So if I'm not conscious of mytendency towards scarcity, i
(10:25):
will nickel and dime everything.
I will play it way too safelybecause I don't want to fail,
and so I can unintentionally beinstilling those values into my
team.
I notice this sometimes for uswhen my team will be working on
a project and they might say butwe're going to have to invest a
(10:47):
little in this, and theirassumption will be that I don't
want to spend money on it, andI'm like, ah, there's where that
unintentional value of scarcitycreeps in, because if I am
operating out of that withoutthoughtfulness, i am instilling
that into our culture.
So there are values that arebeing instilled unintentionally,
(11:08):
and some of those are good andsome of them not so good, and so
this is one of those reasonswhy I think it's really
important that in these earlystages, we get more conscious
about how we're shaping culture.
What's also happening in theseearly stages is that we're
setting the expectations for howyou work, how you spend money.
So I kind of already hit onthat We're setting those
(11:28):
expectations for how you work,how you spend money and how you
treat one another, your team,whether it's two or 10, in this
early stage growth, they arepicking up their clues from you
on.
Here's how we work together toachieve our mission.
So you're setting thoseexpectations, whether you're
aware of it or not.
(11:49):
And what's also happening isthe legends of your culture are
being written, like some ofthose crazy audacious stories of
things you pulled off or youknow, just the outrageous ideas
or things that kind of get youmoving.
The legends of your culture arebeing written, and that's that
can be pretty fun.
But all of this stuff ishappening in this or these early
(12:11):
stages of growth, and what Iwant you to notice is how
critical it is that we becomemore conscious of shaping
culture, because we think it'snot a problem, because at this
stage, in these early stages,culture feels pretty great Again
because we've gathered peoplearound us who just get us right.
We've recruited and ralliedfriends and people we connect
(12:34):
with.
Well, not bad, but without moreconscious awareness can
actually create some fractureslater.
But what's going on here is itfeels great, culture feels great
.
It's not very formal, like youknow.
We don't have values written onthe wall or we don't have big
handbooks of how we worktogether, like none of that
(12:55):
stuff exists.
It's not formalized becauseit's just a handful of us and
we're figuring it out as we go.
The team really enjoys oneanother, everyone's involved in
everything in these early stagesAnd so culture is really caught
right.
Like it's just caught, like whowe are and how we work together
.
That's just caught.
It's just in the water, it'sjust what we do, and people
(13:16):
often join the team because ofthe culture.
They love the field, they lovethe camaraderie, they love the
community and connection.
That's happening right, likeall the good pie products of
good culture, and culture atthis stage also is a very much a
direct reflection of thefounder or visionary leader,
like the key leader in theorganization.
Culture is really a reflectionof that leader, so that all
(13:40):
feels awesome, right.
And remember we're talkingabout in this episode why
culture is great until it's notWell, as soon as your team kind
of eclipses.
About 12 staff members isusually where I see this start
to unravel.
Sometimes we hold it together alittle longer than that, But
about the time that we can't allsit around the table doing
everything together, you knowthat term, flock ball.
(14:00):
You know when a bunch of fiveyear olds are trying to play
soccer and they all just flockaround the ball and like there's
no strategy.
It's just like they all kind ofhover around the ball and you
know kind of get the ballsomewhere, but there's no.
No, they're not overlyintentional, They're not very
strategic, they're just kind ofall moving together as a group.
Well, that's how a lot of oursmall organizations operate.
(14:22):
And so as the organization grows, as the team expands, we start
to hit what we would callimpredictable success language.
We say it's, we've hit whitewater right, like we've hit the
rapids, like things are changing.
The business or theorganization is growing And all
of a sudden it doesn't feelgreat anymore And we're
scratching our head as leadersbecause we're like we've still
(14:44):
got all the same people, likeall the people that we used to,
you know, love and be connectedto and, you know, rallied with
us in those early days.
Most of them are still here.
However, we're starting to seesignificant turnover.
Right, all of a sudden, peopleare dropping off and leaving and
it's pretty unexpected to you,the leader, like you're like.
(15:05):
This is why it feels likeovernight right, like it felt
like things were good, and thenit feels like all of a sudden
overnight.
Now, the reality is this wasn'thappening overnight, that your
team were feeling it, and it wasone of those things that we as
leaders can be a little blind tobecause we're not, as like,
directly connected to it andfeeling the pain of it in the
(15:27):
same way.
And so we start to see thatsignificant turnover Staff are
doing things that feel a littlemisaligned with who we are and
what we value, and you know thethings that just you used to
intuitively do.
You're seeing misalignment withthat and it's super confusing,
right, like it just is superfrustrating for us as leaders
(15:50):
that staff do things that feelmisaligned And we're starting to
ask the questions of what inthe world is going on here.
We start to hear staffquestioning culture, right, like
, all of a sudden, their kind ofpoint and fingers are poking
holes into the thing that wethought was actually pretty good
, and that becomes reallydiscouraging.
(16:11):
We start to see silos emerging,right Like where teams are kind
of operating a little bitagainst each other, right Like
everybody used to be for eachother, and all of a sudden,
these little silos are emergingand everybody's kind of doing
their own thing, and what we'rerealizing at this point is that
culture is no longer beingcaught the way it was when there
(16:31):
were just a handful of us, andthat's when we have to really
move to culture being taught.
Now I get some pushback on thatthat leaders are like gosh, that
feels wrong.
You're like culture should beorganic and culture is just a
reflection of who we are.
And so how can you teachculture?
You can't really teach culture.
Culture just has to be caught.
Well, it's both and, and whathappens at this stage is that we
(16:57):
have to get more intentionaland really more conscious about
our culture, like who are we andhow do we work together to
achieve our mission?
And so, friends, that is whywe've got to give some
intentionality to our, to ourculture and to our, to a
(17:18):
definition of who we are and howwe work together to achieve
that mission, and so that's whatI want you to be thinking about
.
If you are one of those leaderswho's like gosh, my culture was
great until it wasn't Like whatdo I do with that?
Well, this is where I would sayto you it's time to do some
assessment of where your cultureis, and so this is part of the
(17:38):
process.
My team and I all of theforesight coaches have been
certified in our lead cultureframework, which is designed to
help you walk through thisprocess of moving from culture
just being caught to culturebeing taught, and you know what
happens This is the this is thekey ingredient here is that when
, once we get more purposefulabout our culture, then it does
(17:59):
get caught again, right, so thenit becomes both caught and
taught, and so what you want todo at this stage, if you're one
of those leaders who's like gosh, it was so good And now it's
not, and I don't know whatchanged, and I'm really
frustrated by that.
First of all, i get it, it'snot uncommon, and so you're
going through some of thosegrowing pains of a team
(18:19):
expanding, team, getting larger,and now you've got to put some
intentional effort into definingyour culture and living into a
culture plan.
There's some really fascinatingresearch about how all of us
believe that culture is good but, like, less than 10% of us have
a plan for our culture Right,like, if we think something is
(18:42):
worth working on, we usuallybuild a plan for it.
And so that's how we helpleaders is come alongside them
to build that culture plan.
So what we do when we're workingwith you is saying hey, we want
to assess what's your currentculture.
Now, we do that via surveys anddiscussions and different tools
and things.
Let's assess your currentculture.
What's your reality, both thosegood and not so good values
(19:05):
that you're kind ofunconsciously been instilling
into your culture, into yourteam.
So we assess our reality, likewhat's true, where are we?
Then we define what you want toaspire to like.
Who are we at our best?
That's one of the big questionswe ask.
And so defining what do wereally aspire to, and then we
help you build a plan to closethe gap between that actual
(19:28):
culture and the aspirationalculture.
Now, there's always a bit of anaspiration to culture, because
we're a bunch of messy humanstrying to do all of this work
together, and so we're.
We never perfect it, but theclearer we can be about what we
aspire to like.
What do we look like at ourbest?
And then we help you build aplan to live into that
(19:50):
aspiration, looking at differentways that we can help you
inspire that culture with thosevalues that are so critical, and
then looking for the differentrhythms and systems throughout
your organization and throughoutyour team that will help you do
that well.
And so I want to give you aquote from my friend, tim
(20:13):
Stevens.
Tim is the one of the executivepastors at Willow Creek
Community Church And I want toread for you what Tim had to say
about helping when Forsytehelped him with their
organizational culture.
He says in late 2020, our staffwas in a tough place.
(20:34):
Our team had carried the weightof a significant leadership
failure, the isolation of aprolonged pandemic shutdown and
demoralizing budget cuts whichled to layoffs.
We were in a tough place andour culture could only be
described as toxic.
Over the next year, wepartnered with the Forsyte Group
to help us assess our culture,discover shared values and begin
(20:57):
to plan the rhythms andbehaviors to help rebuild toward
a place of health.
Jenny Catrin and her team guidedme and my culture team each
step of the way.
We didn't need a quick fix, andtheir team offered us something
we couldn't find elsewhere Apartner to walk with us over a
prolonged period of time.
It's not perfect, but ourculture has completely turned
(21:19):
around and is beginning tothrive.
And so, friends, that is whatwe hope for as we partner with
you in culture, whether it's youlisten to our podcast, you
download our free resources oryou have us come and support you
and work directly with you.
My goal is to help you buildthat thriving and healthy
culture, because your missionmatters.
(21:41):
What you're doing matters sosignificantly, but it's hard to
do without a healthy team, andso that is why we want to
encourage you to keep leaninginto the health of your culture.
It matters, it's significantand it's really good and
important work.
So if you resonated today withthis idea that your culture was
(22:05):
good until, all of a sudden, itwasn't, i hope this got you
thinking.
Feel free to email me somequestions.
You can email me at podcast.
I get foresightcom and I wouldlove to answer your questions or
get someone from my team toreach out and help you walk
through, talk through some ofthe dynamics that you're
navigating, because this workmatters.
(22:26):
You guys, we're also in a timeand a space where employees
realize how critical it is.
They wanna be a part ofcultures that are compelling and
engaging and exciting and areon mission.
They wanna do purposeful workwith great teams, and that's
what great culture helps you do.
So I hope it got you thinkingtoday.
(22:48):
Let me know what you thought.
What are some of your questions?
Email me atpodcastgetforsightcom or find us
on Instagram at getforsight, oryou can find me at Jenny Catrin
on all the social channels,including the brand new threads.
I just signed up there so we'llsee how that goes.
And friends, i would love it Ifthis was helpful, if maybe this
(23:10):
got you thinking about anotherorganization that maybe your
friend works at or that youvolunteer for, or you're
connected within some way andyou're like gosh, this is what
they're experiencing.
Send it their way and tell themto check it out And then, if
you haven't done it yet, wouldyou leave that five star review?
I would so appreciate it.
It is a great help to us toknow how we're doing.
(23:30):
That's one of those littlemeasurements that helps us know
how are we doing in serving you.
So stay connected.
Let us know how we can serveyou.
Email me atpodcastgetforsightcom and I will
see you next week.
Thanks for listening and keepleading well.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!