August 26, 2025 • 26 mins
Stop being invisible in meetings. Stop decreasing your value in the company. Have a take! Offer an opinion. Give some insight.
In this episode Lone Rock Leadership co-founder Russ Hill takes a position! He claims the most valuable people in any organization aren't those who simply show up. They're the ones who listen carefully, then boldly state: "I think we should sell this division" or "We need to delay this product launch by six months." These clear positions immediately engage others, creating momentum where before there was only stagnation.
This episode explores why decisiveness matters so deeply in leadership and how it separates forgettable team members from indispensable ones. We dive into the neuroscience behind why our brains naturally search for opinions to react to, and why concise, position-based communication outperforms rambling explanations every time.
You'll learn the powerful "Listen, Position, Listen" framework that transforms how others perceive your leadership. Plus, discover why the shortest comments often carry the most weight, and why preparation before meetings dramatically increases your impact. Most importantly, you'll understand the critical balance between having strong opinions and remaining flexible enough to change course when new information emerges.
For leaders evaluating team performance, this episode provides clear signals to identify who's truly adding value versus who's merely occupying space. Whether you're leading a small team or an entire organization, mastering the art of taking positions will fundamentally transform your effectiveness and influence.
Ready to stop being forgettable and start driving real progress? Listen now, then share this episode with someone whose leadership journey matters to you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Absolutely nobody follows a maybe, Silence or
shrugs.
They aren't memorable ornotable.
If you want to lead, you've gotto pick up the flag.
Let's talk about yourindecision, your lack of a
position in this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill you
cannot be serious.
Strengthen your ability to leadin less than 30 minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Lead through change.
Choose to be powerful, makedecisions faster and with.
Buy in.
Check out the new 30 dayleadership courses now available
from Lone Rock Leadership.
You can watch the previewvideos right now at lonerockio.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
They are the four areas that every single
organization struggles with.
How do we know that?
Well, because it's not ourfirst rodeo, like when you've
been on thousands of flights andover.
You know, just between thefounders of our firm, the three
of us that co-founded Lone RockLeadership, we've counted more
than 9,000 meetings oh my gosh,that is so painful to say More
(01:13):
than 9,000 meetings that we'vebeen in with clients all over
the globe, all over Europe, allover Asia, north America, and
obviously, these last few years,virtually.
And when you interact withorganizations whether it's a
restaurant chain or amanufacturing client, or it's a
health care company, a hospitalsystem, insurance, whatever it
(01:36):
is when you interact with them,that often you see the pain
points that are universal, andthat's what we built those four
courses around.
Welcome in to the Lead in 30podcast pain points that are
universal and that's what webuilt those four courses around.
Welcome into the lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, a best
practice, something to implementin the way that you lead others
.
If you upgrade, if you upgradeyour ability to lead, it impacts
(02:00):
every aspect of your life.
There's no finish line and, bythe way, the market is
constantly changing, right, thecustomers are changing, our
employees are changing, thecompetitors are changing, and so
we've got to constantly beadjusting the way that we lead
others.
Otherwise we're going to beleft behind, right, and so
(02:21):
that's what we talk about inthis podcast.
My name is Russ Hill.
I coach, consult seniorexecutive teams at some of the
world's biggest companies, andit's such a privilege to do it.
I'm one member of the team atLone Rock Leadership.
You can find out more about ourfirm and these four areas that
we built courses around.
There's lead in 30, thefoundational course.
Adapt in 30,.
(02:42):
Leading people through changebecause you think you work in a
lake when the reality is.
Adapt in 30,.
Leading people through changebecause you think you work in a
lake when the reality is youwork in an ocean.
There are a constant.
It's so funny.
You see these members of teamsand they're like oh my gosh, we
just got pounded by this wavecalled a restructuring, or
pounded.
We got hit broadside by thiswave called a tariff.
We got broadsided by this wavecalled a hybrid work, or people
(03:06):
changing the way that they wantto work.
Oh, how are we going to handleit?
This is a massive wave andeverybody on the team like we're
all waiting for that water tocalm down again, like it's a
shock that a wave actually hitus.
Well, guess what happens in theocean.
Guess what happens in the ocean.
Guess what's coming Anotherwave.
(03:26):
Because you don't work in acalm lake this is not your
favorite lake.
At 5 am, still calm, glassywater.
What you work in, theenvironment you work in, is the
ocean, wave after wave afterwave of constant change.
That is the mortal condition.
That is the mortal condition,that is the human condition.
(03:47):
And so leading through change.
Can you tell I'm kind ofpassionate about it.
It's uh, by the way, it's oneof the courses that we offer off
the shelf adapt in 30.
That's just generating a ton ofnoise because it's so relevant.
The other courses are decide in30 and um and power in 30.
You ever felt powerless?
Yeah, it leads to peoplesurrendering because you don't
(04:10):
think you have any control, whenreality is that's a decision
that you make.
Okay, I'm not gonna.
I got a lot of passion aroundthese.
We've we've spent a lot of timebuilding these out.
The frameworks and modelsaren't new.
We've been using them withexecutive teams forever, but.
But we started with clarity,alignment, movement and a lead
in 30.
We hit the market with that forthe last four years, and now
we're ready to give you some ofthe other frameworks and models
(04:33):
that we've been using withexecutive teams that generate
significant movement.
Lonerockio is where you canfind out more about it.
Okay, so I want to share withyou an unlock, a best practice,
a tip that will have profoundimpact, and many of you already
are good at this and a lot ofyou suck at it, okay, and so I
(04:57):
want to just bring yourattention to it.
You cannot be indecisive.
You could not be indecisive asa leader.
Now, what I'm not advocating isthat you're unmovable, that
you're stubborn, that you'rearrogant, that you have all the
answers.
No, that's not it either.
(05:18):
But what I am saying is thereis tremendous value in you
taking a position whenconstantly like that is the job
of a leader to have a position,to have a take to, to, to, to um
, offer insight.
So here's the sequence for this.
(05:39):
Well, let me tell you why thisis on my mind.
As we're growing our firm,we're constantly looking for new
people or new spots to hire,and we're really big.
If you listen to this podcast ona regular basis.
You know I am a big believer inthe who more than the what.
Every time that you startdigging in as an executive, as
an owner, as a leader, as amanager, into figuring out the
(06:01):
what, you're going down a rabbithole that is going to waste an
insane amount of time.
As soon as you find and let meexplain for those of you that
are like what in the crud areyou talking about, russ?
Um, what I'm, what I'm what I'm.
What I mean by this is when youdiscover that there is an
additional skill, task, a needinside your organization or your
(06:24):
department and you go and youthink, okay, well, I'm gonna go
explore, I'm gonna go searchyoutube videos, I'm gonna go
look for whatever it is.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna gospend a week, a month, a weekend
, whatever, digging into how todo this.
You, you, a lot of times.
Now there are instances wherethat's needed, but if that
(06:45):
requires more than a few minutes, more than a few hours, then
you're wasting time.
Go find the who.
Who knows how to do this?
Who can bring this competency,this expertise, to our executive
team?
Who can bring this to ourdepartment?
Who can bring this to our firmor our practice or our plant or
whatever the who is criticallyimportant department.
Who can bring this to our firmor our practice or our plant or
(07:05):
whatever?
The who is critically importantand, by the way, not part of
this episode, but I'll throw itout, since it's related is you
getting good on what you are on?
Your expertise is whatsignificantly impacts your value
in the marketplace.
When you don't know what you'regood at, you can't articulate
it, you haven't thought throughthat.
(07:26):
Then you've got limited value.
You're a generalist in themarket that pays for specialists
to some degree.
There there's um, there arelimits to that.
But you there's definitelyareas where you want to have
expertise in, because that makesyou extremely marketable.
You are the best in doing thisparticular area.
(07:49):
For instance, in the area ofexecutive consultants and I say
this with humility because wehave a lot to learn but there's
nobody better than our firm.
There's nobody better.
Nobody's done it more.
Now, if you're looking forstrategic consultants or you
know you want to go, you wantsomeone to give you binders of
information on whether or notyou should close that plant or
(08:12):
you should restructure whatever.
That is not our area ofexpertise.
That's McKinsey, that's BostonConsulting Group.
There are big dogs out thereand smaller players that offer
that up.
That's not what we do.
We're not the data scientists,we're not the people that are
going to analyze all that.
That just hurts my brain.
But there are companies thatare really good at that.
But what they are not good atis what we do, which is go in
(08:35):
and work with the team andexecutive team and get them.
Get them to be way moreeffective, get them to be high
performing and, by the way, youcan't do that with just limited
interaction.
You've got to dig in.
And so when we haveorganizations, clients, that
allow us to dig in, and we'vegot frequent cadence and they're
movable, we can bring enormousvalue.
(08:55):
I know our value in themarketplace.
There's nobody better atidentifying the core
deficiencies in mid-levelmanagers than we are.
Why?
Because we've done it a ton.
Let me give you an example ofthis real quick, and then I'm
going to get back to decision.
I had a, and maybe I've sharedthis recently in a podcast.
(09:15):
I can't keep up with all thecontent we put out, so forgive
me if you've heard this recently, but so we've got a neighbor
and Kelly came.
Kelly came over, uh, when I washaving issues with the boat.
I'm not as sure this I know.
I've told this story recently,I just don't know if it was in a
podcast episode or not.
Um, and and so the boat washaving issues and Kelly came
(09:35):
over and I I fired up the boat.
I think I did tell this in apodcast episode, so I'll make it
brief.
Um, I fire up the boat engineand Kelly listens to it for like
10 seconds and says you neednew spark plugs.
I'm like, how do you know that?
Because he's worked onthousands of engines, he owns
auto repair shops.
That's his area of expertise.
(09:56):
If he can articulate to themarket like, his value goes up
tremendously in that space.
Same is true for you.
Okay, so let me let me get intohow this applies to decision
making, okay.
So, um, when, when we'rebuilding the firm this is why
it's on my one of the reasonswhy it's on my mind and we're
(10:16):
looking for people withexpertise in particular areas,
and because we have a need, andso we'll contact somebody we'll
say, hey, we'll do this or dothat, or help us with this, or
what do you have, and so oftenthey will just view themselves
as data collectors or they showup on a zoom call or in person
or whatever else, and theylisten and they're like, oh,
(10:40):
okay, well, it could be this, oryou know, you know what do you
want?
Or okay, whatever, I'm like no,I want you to listen to me and
then offer a position.
Hey Russ, what you need in thisarea is that whoa, okay, let me
think about that.
I think you're right, or Ithink you're crazy.
And and and and.
But you take a position whichbrings efficiency to the
(11:04):
conversation.
It makes you notable.
The people I don't remember, thepeople I'm not interested in
bringing onto the team, thepeople who don't really have an
impact, are the people that arejust kind of present.
They're in the meeting, they'rein the conversation.
This was me when I first gotinto management.
(11:24):
I thought my job was, you know,I was to execute and there's
value to that, but it's notnearly as high as the people who
have opinions.
Again, I'll put the disclaimerthat I'm not looking for you to
have like a radical opinion oneverything and you can't
actually execute.
That's not what I'm talkingabout, because those people are
annoying and they don't bringvalue.
(11:45):
You know people that are justsuper opinionated on everything
and there's no data to back itup, or their opinion is it's
just, it doesn't make sense.
And so let me give you kind of aframework to how this is how
this works.
We teach it is listen, position, listen right of a framework to
how this is how this works.
We teach it is listen, position, listen right.
(12:05):
And I want to expound, expoundon that.
But here, here's what I wantyou to do.
Here's where you bring value Umand and where I want to get to
the core of what I'm, what I'mtrying to teach or or highlight
here.
When you go to a meeting, I wantyou listening to the
conversation, I want youobserving what's going on, and
typically there are multiplepoints of view that start to
(12:29):
present themselves.
We should sell no, we shouldbuy.
We should go faster no, weshould go slower.
We should hire him no, weshould get rid of him or not
bring him on board.
We should expand that productoffering no, we need to wait to
do it.
There You'll you'll hear somepositions, some different um
(12:53):
points of view presentingthemselves, and, as you're
listening to this, I want you tothink through your own position
, and the way I do this is Iwrite it down.
I've got a notebook likeold-fashioned, like sheets of
paper you ever seen those things?
And I'm writing it down.
(13:15):
By the way, stop using yourlaptop in meetings.
You look like you're answeringemails.
If you're taking notes onwhat's happening in the meeting,
I can't tell, and if everybodyelse is using their laptops, I
don't care.
Be the outlier.
Put it down.
A sheet of paper or an iPad ifyou want it to be digital, or
some kind of digital note takerwhere you've got a physical pen
(13:38):
like a writing object that makesyou look like you're engaged.
Everyone in the meeting, objectthat makes you look like you're
engaged.
Everyone in the meeting.
On laptops, you look likeyou're not listening and the
reality is most of you aren'tand it's why this meeting is a
waste of time, because I've gotnobody's attention Be present,
and if everyone feels the needto be on a laptop in a meeting,
(13:59):
then your meetings way too longand it's not concentrated, and
that's a belief that you need totackle.
I can't stand it.
These meetings we go to withclients sometimes if it's our
first meeting with someone, wedon't take too harsh of a stand
on it, but by the second orthird meeting there's nobody on
a laptop.
Why?
Because you won't survive themeeting At the pace we're going
(14:19):
to, to go, at the level ofengagement we demand at, at how
often we're asking for youropinion.
It's these meetings where wepresent, like, what a waste of
time.
We'll now hear from marketingfor an hour and a half and
everyone will lose their mind.
Or now it's time for thisfunction to report out and
(14:41):
they're going to take the nexttwo hours.
Please remove all sharp objectsfrom the room.
Like, are you kidding me?
Send me the deck.
This is how Amazon does it.
Right, send that out in advance.
And then, when we get to themeeting, ask for my question,
ask for questions.
And if nobody read it, thenthey're not interested.
We're wasting time anyway.
(15:05):
Um, can you tell I've got someenergy on this?
So you're listening, not usinga laptop.
You're writing down somethoughts.
This is what Mike said thatstood out to me.
This is what Linda said thatstood out to me.
I think that and, and, and.
You're trying to.
You're trying to put it into alist of one, two or three things
.
So you're formulating someopinions when we and then, at a
(15:27):
certain point not three hours,in, maybe 20 minutes, in maybe
10 minutes into the meeting,you're going to offer an opinion
.
You're not going to say, oh, Ithink that's interesting for an
opinion.
You're not going to say, oh, Ithink that's interesting.
Oh, yeah, I really think thisis important.
No, you're going to take aposition.
Hey you all, this is a I I'vereally, I think this is the
(15:51):
right conversation, that this iswhat it might sound like.
Hey you all.
I think this is a really goodconversation.
I, I, I, um.
I've been listening to whatwe're talking about here and I I
really appreciate the differentperspectives.
I think that we should sell thisdivision of the company.
I think that we need to delaylaunching this product six
(16:12):
months.
I think we aren't acting withenough urgency in this area.
I think that we are headed thewrong direction.
Take a position.
When you do that, your value inthe organization, on the team
(16:32):
in the room, goes up enormously.
If your position is wellthought out, if you've got some
sound reasoning and I do notwant you to take four minutes to
say one sentence diarrhea ofthe mouth diminishes your value.
(16:58):
I'm sorry, I don't know what Iwas to say that you all um, um,
being, uh, like being wordy, uh,what?
What's a better, more um,professional way for me to say
that don't, don't, don't spewnonsense.
That's why you've got thenotebook.
You're writing it out asentence.
I think we should sell thisplant.
(17:18):
I believe we should move slowerand so be ready with a concise
statement and you can add somecolor, some commentary, some
context or narrative around it,but be limited in it.
What I am not advocating hereis you taking a position and
(17:40):
taking 10 minutes to saysomething.
No one has any idea what youjust said.
If you're going to tell a story, keep it to a minute throughout
all the other details.
Get to the meat of it.
The shorter your comments, thestronger your comment.
Okay, then do what I'm doingright here Hesitate, pause,
(18:10):
emphasize certain words, givetime for the brain to process,
make a statement, then let itsink in.
When you speak this way, it'sso much more powerful than when
(18:33):
you speak like this and you'reconstantly talking about it.
And then I want to tell you astory about where Mike was doing
whatever, and we went to thatwhatever.
You lost me.
So you speak in that kind of away you all, this has been a
really good conversation way.
You all, this has been a reallygood conversation.
(18:53):
I, um, I, I think that, um, thatthere's been some great data
presented, and I just wanted tooffer my perspective.
Listening to the debate, I'vespent some time thinking about
this.
I think we should delay anyaction in this area for six
months, and the reason that I,um, I say that I know that's
controversial and I know I'mlaughing on purpose.
(19:15):
I'm highlighting because it'skind of heavy.
I I know that to some of you,you're thinking what that's
insane, but here's why I'madvocating that we delay any
action on this for six months.
The reason is, I think we don'thave enough data, and so what
(19:41):
strikes me is that we need to.
You see how this is going.
That's powerful.
Do you know how many people thatwe talk to just in our firm I'm
just making this personal, like, just really close to home that
I am initially impressed by,and then we meet with them, or
(20:02):
we talk with them, or we getthem in a meeting and they don't
take positions.
I don't want you to take aposition just to take a position
.
Okay, um, I want you to, I wantyou to think through it and I
want you to weigh in, because itmakes you more valuable.
You have insight.
That is what people follow.
(20:25):
Clarity we react our brains, theway our brains work.
The science behind this is,when you just say a lot of
dribble it, my brain doesn'treally do anything.
But the way that the brainworks is, as you're speaking, my
brain is searching, my ears arefiltering everything you're
(20:47):
saying, looking for opinions.
Watch this, try it out.
It's totally true.
And I'm looking for an opinion.
I'm looking desperately.
I do it subconsciously, you doit all the time.
I'm searching for somethingthat I agree with.
I'm searching for something Idisagree with and I'm anxious to
(21:09):
react to it.
That's, that's how you engagebrains.
What causes us all to check outis really a lack of a position,
lack of an interestingperspective, lack of a concise
narrative that my brain canfollow.
(21:30):
So the takeaway, what I want youthinking about, is how often
are you taking positions?
Are you just the silentobserver in a meeting?
Are you showing up and just youknow, kind of observing your
present?
You're there in yourorganization, you offering ideas
?
Are you offering solutions?
(21:51):
Are you saying, hey, I thinkthere's a different way we could
be doing this.
Oh really, what is it?
Well, you know, I've beenthinking about this wow, that's
what we need.
What we need is somebody who'sthinking about this, who's been
studying it, who's beencontemplating it, who's been
pondering about it, who's beenasking our customers about it,
(22:13):
who's been thinking about it andhaving conversations on the
side, who's gathered some data,who thinks we ought to do it
this way instead of that way,who's got a position.
I want you on my team.
If you take positions and youstate them in a concise,
effective way and you're movable, that is the recipe for success
(22:41):
, for value add.
What you have in mostorganizations and most teams is
people who are just present.
They just really don't have anyideas.
They don't have a um, anopinion on these things.
They haven't thought through it, they don't really know where
(23:06):
they stand.
They're just kind of here or onthe other end of the extreme,
the the other extreme is peoplewho take a position, have an
opinion on everything andthey're not movable.
Like get, get those people outof here.
Like I've got no interest inthem, right, I'd rather them
than the milk toast.
People that are just kind ofdude.
Do you have a pulse?
(23:26):
Like hello, like anything goingon in there?
Like, do you even care aboutthis?
Do you have any passion aroundit, are you?
Because yeah, so I want you to.
I want you to first considerwhat I'm saying as it applies to
you and how you're showing upand then, secondarily, I want
(23:48):
you to analyze your team and thepeople you have on the team who
are just present.
Get rid of them, move on.
They're like, unless they're insome position where you need
them, like that, you just needneed a body, you just need
(24:08):
something, a pulse, like just goexecute and do this, whatever.
Otherwise, upgrade, upgradewith someone that's got a
position, somebody that that,that that's movable, somebody
who's got passion around what itis we're doing, somebody who's
got expertise, somebody whothinks about this, who cares
about it, somebody who's driven,somebody who's got expertise,
somebody who thinks about this,who cares about it, somebody
(24:29):
who's driven, somebody who'swants, wants to to make things
happen in this area, somebodywho's ideating on it and
thinking about it and, and youknow, just in innovating, like
my gosh, what could weaccomplish with more of them?
What I don't want is just themilk toast, like I.
I'm so embarrassed at the waythat I showed up in those early
(24:51):
days of me being in management.
What was I thinking?
I think it was a lack ofconfidence, quite honestly.
I think it was a lack ofknowing this, all of this stuff
that I'm talking about and um,and realizing that when you take
a position, you're advancingthe conversation Doesn't mean
you think you're right.
Do you know how many times Ioffer a position, an opinion?
(25:13):
I don't even know if I agreewith it, I'm just stating it.
I was on a call.
Just to end with this.
I was on a call a few minutesago with somebody that that we
brought on board to do somestuff for us, and I went into
the call.
I spent some time last nightbefore I went to bed taking a
position.
(25:34):
So I opened up a document andthis, whatever I took, I, I.
It took me 20 minutes to 15maybe, and I took like five or
six positions.
I think we should do this, Ithink we should do that, I think
we should do this, we should dothat.
So when the call began, I said,hey, do you mind if I share my
screen?
Here are some ideas.
And then this person justreacted to that.
Do you know how much moreefficient that is, how strong
(25:57):
that is compared to?
Hey, welcome to the call.
Yeah, I just wanted to have adiscussion with you and I really
don't have any idea.
What, whatever.
Do you have any ideas?
Or whatever like, oh my gosh,that's so slow and so wasteful.
Take a position, I show up withthe position.
Anyway, you get the point allright, something for you to
(26:18):
think about as it pertains toyou and as it pertains to the
people on your team.
That's what's on my mind,that's my position, that's my
opinion, that I want you toreact to and think about in this
episode of the Lead in 30podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Share this episode with a colleague, your team or a
friend.
Tap on the share button andtext the link.
Thanks for listening to theLead in 30 podcast with Russ
Hill.
Absolutely nobody follows a maybe, Silence or
shrugs.
They aren't memorable ornotable.
If you want to lead, you've gotto pick up the flag.
Let's talk about yourindecision, your lack of a
position in this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill you
cannot be serious.
Strengthen your ability to leadin less than 30 minutes.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Lead through change.
Choose to be powerful, makedecisions faster and with.
Buy in.
Check out the new 30 dayleadership courses now available
from Lone Rock Leadership.
You can watch the previewvideos right now at lonerockio.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
They are the four areas that every single
organization struggles with.
How do we know that?
Well, because it's not ourfirst rodeo, like when you've
been on thousands of flights andover.
You know, just between thefounders of our firm, the three
of us that co-founded Lone RockLeadership, we've counted more
than 9,000 meetings oh my gosh,that is so painful to say More
(01:13):
than 9,000 meetings that we'vebeen in with clients all over
the globe, all over Europe, allover Asia, north America, and
obviously, these last few years,virtually.
And when you interact withorganizations whether it's a
restaurant chain or amanufacturing client, or it's a
health care company, a hospitalsystem, insurance, whatever it
(01:36):
is when you interact with them,that often you see the pain
points that are universal, andthat's what we built those four
courses around.
Welcome in to the Lead in 30podcast pain points that are
universal and that's what webuilt those four courses around.
Welcome into the lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, a best
practice, something to implementin the way that you lead others
.
If you upgrade, if you upgradeyour ability to lead, it impacts
(02:00):
every aspect of your life.
There's no finish line and, bythe way, the market is
constantly changing, right, thecustomers are changing, our
employees are changing, thecompetitors are changing, and so
we've got to constantly beadjusting the way that we lead
others.
Otherwise we're going to beleft behind, right, and so
(02:21):
that's what we talk about inthis podcast.
My name is Russ Hill.
I coach, consult seniorexecutive teams at some of the
world's biggest companies, andit's such a privilege to do it.
I'm one member of the team atLone Rock Leadership.
You can find out more about ourfirm and these four areas that
we built courses around.
There's lead in 30, thefoundational course.
Adapt in 30,.
(02:42):
Leading people through changebecause you think you work in a
lake when the reality is.
Adapt in 30,.
Leading people through changebecause you think you work in a
lake when the reality is youwork in an ocean.
There are a constant.
It's so funny.
You see these members of teamsand they're like oh my gosh, we
just got pounded by this wavecalled a restructuring, or
pounded.
We got hit broadside by thiswave called a tariff.
We got broadsided by this wavecalled a hybrid work, or people
(03:06):
changing the way that they wantto work.
Oh, how are we going to handleit?
This is a massive wave andeverybody on the team like we're
all waiting for that water tocalm down again, like it's a
shock that a wave actually hitus.
Well, guess what happens in theocean.
Guess what happens in the ocean.
Guess what's coming Anotherwave.
(03:26):
Because you don't work in acalm lake this is not your
favorite lake.
At 5 am, still calm, glassywater.
What you work in, theenvironment you work in, is the
ocean, wave after wave afterwave of constant change.
That is the mortal condition.
That is the mortal condition,that is the human condition.
(03:47):
And so leading through change.
Can you tell I'm kind ofpassionate about it.
It's uh, by the way, it's oneof the courses that we offer off
the shelf adapt in 30.
That's just generating a ton ofnoise because it's so relevant.
The other courses are decide in30 and um and power in 30.
You ever felt powerless?
Yeah, it leads to peoplesurrendering because you don't
(04:10):
think you have any control, whenreality is that's a decision
that you make.
Okay, I'm not gonna.
I got a lot of passion aroundthese.
We've we've spent a lot of timebuilding these out.
The frameworks and modelsaren't new.
We've been using them withexecutive teams forever, but.
But we started with clarity,alignment, movement and a lead
in 30.
We hit the market with that forthe last four years, and now
we're ready to give you some ofthe other frameworks and models
(04:33):
that we've been using withexecutive teams that generate
significant movement.
Lonerockio is where you canfind out more about it.
Okay, so I want to share withyou an unlock, a best practice,
a tip that will have profoundimpact, and many of you already
are good at this and a lot ofyou suck at it, okay, and so I
(04:57):
want to just bring yourattention to it.
You cannot be indecisive.
You could not be indecisive asa leader.
Now, what I'm not advocating isthat you're unmovable, that
you're stubborn, that you'rearrogant, that you have all the
answers.
No, that's not it either.
(05:18):
But what I am saying is thereis tremendous value in you
taking a position whenconstantly like that is the job
of a leader to have a position,to have a take to, to, to, to um
, offer insight.
So here's the sequence for this.
(05:39):
Well, let me tell you why thisis on my mind.
As we're growing our firm,we're constantly looking for new
people or new spots to hire,and we're really big.
If you listen to this podcast ona regular basis.
You know I am a big believer inthe who more than the what.
Every time that you startdigging in as an executive, as
an owner, as a leader, as amanager, into figuring out the
(06:01):
what, you're going down a rabbithole that is going to waste an
insane amount of time.
As soon as you find and let meexplain for those of you that
are like what in the crud areyou talking about, russ?
Um, what I'm, what I'm what I'm.
What I mean by this is when youdiscover that there is an
additional skill, task, a needinside your organization or your
(06:24):
department and you go and youthink, okay, well, I'm gonna go
explore, I'm gonna go searchyoutube videos, I'm gonna go
look for whatever it is.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna gospend a week, a month, a weekend
, whatever, digging into how todo this.
You, you, a lot of times.
Now there are instances wherethat's needed, but if that
(06:45):
requires more than a few minutes, more than a few hours, then
you're wasting time.
Go find the who.
Who knows how to do this?
Who can bring this competency,this expertise, to our executive
team?
Who can bring this to ourdepartment?
Who can bring this to our firmor our practice or our plant or
whatever the who is criticallyimportant department.
Who can bring this to our firmor our practice or our plant or
(07:05):
whatever?
The who is critically importantand, by the way, not part of
this episode, but I'll throw itout, since it's related is you
getting good on what you are on?
Your expertise is whatsignificantly impacts your value
in the marketplace.
When you don't know what you'regood at, you can't articulate
it, you haven't thought throughthat.
(07:26):
Then you've got limited value.
You're a generalist in themarket that pays for specialists
to some degree.
There there's um, there arelimits to that.
But you there's definitelyareas where you want to have
expertise in, because that makesyou extremely marketable.
You are the best in doing thisparticular area.
(07:49):
For instance, in the area ofexecutive consultants and I say
this with humility because wehave a lot to learn but there's
nobody better than our firm.
There's nobody better.
Nobody's done it more.
Now, if you're looking forstrategic consultants or you
know you want to go, you wantsomeone to give you binders of
information on whether or notyou should close that plant or
(08:12):
you should restructure whatever.
That is not our area ofexpertise.
That's McKinsey, that's BostonConsulting Group.
There are big dogs out thereand smaller players that offer
that up.
That's not what we do.
We're not the data scientists,we're not the people that are
going to analyze all that.
That just hurts my brain.
But there are companies thatare really good at that.
But what they are not good atis what we do, which is go in
(08:35):
and work with the team andexecutive team and get them.
Get them to be way moreeffective, get them to be high
performing and, by the way, youcan't do that with just limited
interaction.
You've got to dig in.
And so when we haveorganizations, clients, that
allow us to dig in, and we'vegot frequent cadence and they're
movable, we can bring enormousvalue.
(08:55):
I know our value in themarketplace.
There's nobody better atidentifying the core
deficiencies in mid-levelmanagers than we are.
Why?
Because we've done it a ton.
Let me give you an example ofthis real quick, and then I'm
going to get back to decision.
I had a, and maybe I've sharedthis recently in a podcast.
(09:15):
I can't keep up with all thecontent we put out, so forgive
me if you've heard this recently, but so we've got a neighbor
and Kelly came.
Kelly came over, uh, when I washaving issues with the boat.
I'm not as sure this I know.
I've told this story recently,I just don't know if it was in a
podcast episode or not.
Um, and and so the boat washaving issues and Kelly came
(09:35):
over and I I fired up the boat.
I think I did tell this in apodcast episode, so I'll make it
brief.
Um, I fire up the boat engineand Kelly listens to it for like
10 seconds and says you neednew spark plugs.
I'm like, how do you know that?
Because he's worked onthousands of engines, he owns
auto repair shops.
That's his area of expertise.
(09:56):
If he can articulate to themarket like, his value goes up
tremendously in that space.
Same is true for you.
Okay, so let me let me get intohow this applies to decision
making, okay.
So, um, when, when we'rebuilding the firm this is why
it's on my one of the reasonswhy it's on my mind and we're
(10:16):
looking for people withexpertise in particular areas,
and because we have a need, andso we'll contact somebody we'll
say, hey, we'll do this or dothat, or help us with this, or
what do you have, and so oftenthey will just view themselves
as data collectors or they showup on a zoom call or in person
or whatever else, and theylisten and they're like, oh,
(10:40):
okay, well, it could be this, oryou know, you know what do you
want?
Or okay, whatever, I'm like no,I want you to listen to me and
then offer a position.
Hey Russ, what you need in thisarea is that whoa, okay, let me
think about that.
I think you're right, or Ithink you're crazy.
And and and and.
But you take a position whichbrings efficiency to the
(11:04):
conversation.
It makes you notable.
The people I don't remember, thepeople I'm not interested in
bringing onto the team, thepeople who don't really have an
impact, are the people that arejust kind of present.
They're in the meeting, they'rein the conversation.
This was me when I first gotinto management.
(11:24):
I thought my job was, you know,I was to execute and there's
value to that, but it's notnearly as high as the people who
have opinions.
Again, I'll put the disclaimerthat I'm not looking for you to
have like a radical opinion oneverything and you can't
actually execute.
That's not what I'm talkingabout, because those people are
annoying and they don't bringvalue.
(11:45):
You know people that are justsuper opinionated on everything
and there's no data to back itup, or their opinion is it's
just, it doesn't make sense.
And so let me give you kind of aframework to how this is how
this works.
We teach it is listen, position, listen right of a framework to
how this is how this works.
We teach it is listen, position, listen right.
(12:05):
And I want to expound, expoundon that.
But here, here's what I wantyou to do.
Here's where you bring value Umand and where I want to get to
the core of what I'm, what I'mtrying to teach or or highlight
here.
When you go to a meeting, I wantyou listening to the
conversation, I want youobserving what's going on, and
typically there are multiplepoints of view that start to
(12:29):
present themselves.
We should sell no, we shouldbuy.
We should go faster no, weshould go slower.
We should hire him no, weshould get rid of him or not
bring him on board.
We should expand that productoffering no, we need to wait to
do it.
There You'll you'll hear somepositions, some different um
(12:53):
points of view presentingthemselves, and, as you're
listening to this, I want you tothink through your own position
, and the way I do this is Iwrite it down.
I've got a notebook likeold-fashioned, like sheets of
paper you ever seen those things?
And I'm writing it down.
(13:15):
By the way, stop using yourlaptop in meetings.
You look like you're answeringemails.
If you're taking notes onwhat's happening in the meeting,
I can't tell, and if everybodyelse is using their laptops, I
don't care.
Be the outlier.
Put it down.
A sheet of paper or an iPad ifyou want it to be digital, or
some kind of digital note takerwhere you've got a physical pen
(13:38):
like a writing object that makesyou look like you're engaged.
Everyone in the meeting, objectthat makes you look like you're
engaged.
Everyone in the meeting.
On laptops, you look likeyou're not listening and the
reality is most of you aren'tand it's why this meeting is a
waste of time, because I've gotnobody's attention Be present,
and if everyone feels the needto be on a laptop in a meeting,
(13:59):
then your meetings way too longand it's not concentrated, and
that's a belief that you need totackle.
I can't stand it.
These meetings we go to withclients sometimes if it's our
first meeting with someone, wedon't take too harsh of a stand
on it, but by the second orthird meeting there's nobody on
a laptop.
Why?
Because you won't survive themeeting At the pace we're going
(14:19):
to, to go, at the level ofengagement we demand at, at how
often we're asking for youropinion.
It's these meetings where wepresent, like, what a waste of
time.
We'll now hear from marketingfor an hour and a half and
everyone will lose their mind.
Or now it's time for thisfunction to report out and
(14:41):
they're going to take the nexttwo hours.
Please remove all sharp objectsfrom the room.
Like, are you kidding me?
Send me the deck.
This is how Amazon does it.
Right, send that out in advance.
And then, when we get to themeeting, ask for my question,
ask for questions.
And if nobody read it, thenthey're not interested.
We're wasting time anyway.
(15:05):
Um, can you tell I've got someenergy on this?
So you're listening, not usinga laptop.
You're writing down somethoughts.
This is what Mike said thatstood out to me.
This is what Linda said thatstood out to me.
I think that and, and, and.
You're trying to.
You're trying to put it into alist of one, two or three things
.
So you're formulating someopinions when we and then, at a
(15:27):
certain point not three hours,in, maybe 20 minutes, in maybe
10 minutes into the meeting,you're going to offer an opinion
.
You're not going to say, oh, Ithink that's interesting for an
opinion.
You're not going to say, oh, Ithink that's interesting.
Oh, yeah, I really think thisis important.
No, you're going to take aposition.
Hey you all, this is a I I'vereally, I think this is the
(15:51):
right conversation, that this iswhat it might sound like.
Hey you all.
I think this is a really goodconversation.
I, I, I, um.
I've been listening to whatwe're talking about here and I I
really appreciate the differentperspectives.
I think that we should sell thisdivision of the company.
I think that we need to delaylaunching this product six
(16:12):
months.
I think we aren't acting withenough urgency in this area.
I think that we are headed thewrong direction.
Take a position.
When you do that, your value inthe organization, on the team
(16:32):
in the room, goes up enormously.
If your position is wellthought out, if you've got some
sound reasoning and I do notwant you to take four minutes to
say one sentence diarrhea ofthe mouth diminishes your value.
(16:58):
I'm sorry, I don't know what Iwas to say that you all um, um,
being, uh, like being wordy, uh,what?
What's a better, more um,professional way for me to say
that don't, don't, don't spewnonsense.
That's why you've got thenotebook.
You're writing it out asentence.
I think we should sell thisplant.
(17:18):
I believe we should move slowerand so be ready with a concise
statement and you can add somecolor, some commentary, some
context or narrative around it,but be limited in it.
What I am not advocating hereis you taking a position and
(17:40):
taking 10 minutes to saysomething.
No one has any idea what youjust said.
If you're going to tell a story, keep it to a minute throughout
all the other details.
Get to the meat of it.
The shorter your comments, thestronger your comment.
Okay, then do what I'm doingright here Hesitate, pause,
(18:10):
emphasize certain words, givetime for the brain to process,
make a statement, then let itsink in.
When you speak this way, it'sso much more powerful than when
(18:33):
you speak like this and you'reconstantly talking about it.
And then I want to tell you astory about where Mike was doing
whatever, and we went to thatwhatever.
You lost me.
So you speak in that kind of away you all, this has been a
really good conversation way.
You all, this has been a reallygood conversation.
(18:53):
I, um, I, I think that, um, thatthere's been some great data
presented, and I just wanted tooffer my perspective.
Listening to the debate, I'vespent some time thinking about
this.
I think we should delay anyaction in this area for six
months, and the reason that I,um, I say that I know that's
controversial and I know I'mlaughing on purpose.
(19:15):
I'm highlighting because it'skind of heavy.
I I know that to some of you,you're thinking what that's
insane, but here's why I'madvocating that we delay any
action on this for six months.
The reason is, I think we don'thave enough data, and so what
(19:41):
strikes me is that we need to.
You see how this is going.
That's powerful.
Do you know how many people thatwe talk to just in our firm I'm
just making this personal, like, just really close to home that
I am initially impressed by,and then we meet with them, or
(20:02):
we talk with them, or we getthem in a meeting and they don't
take positions.
I don't want you to take aposition just to take a position
.
Okay, um, I want you to, I wantyou to think through it and I
want you to weigh in, because itmakes you more valuable.
You have insight.
That is what people follow.
(20:25):
Clarity we react our brains, theway our brains work.
The science behind this is,when you just say a lot of
dribble it, my brain doesn'treally do anything.
But the way that the brainworks is, as you're speaking, my
brain is searching, my ears arefiltering everything you're
(20:47):
saying, looking for opinions.
Watch this, try it out.
It's totally true.
And I'm looking for an opinion.
I'm looking desperately.
I do it subconsciously, you doit all the time.
I'm searching for somethingthat I agree with.
I'm searching for something Idisagree with and I'm anxious to
(21:09):
react to it.
That's, that's how you engagebrains.
What causes us all to check outis really a lack of a position,
lack of an interestingperspective, lack of a concise
narrative that my brain canfollow.
(21:30):
So the takeaway, what I want youthinking about, is how often
are you taking positions?
Are you just the silentobserver in a meeting?
Are you showing up and just youknow, kind of observing your
present?
You're there in yourorganization, you offering ideas
?
Are you offering solutions?
(21:51):
Are you saying, hey, I thinkthere's a different way we could
be doing this.
Oh really, what is it?
Well, you know, I've beenthinking about this wow, that's
what we need.
What we need is somebody who'sthinking about this, who's been
studying it, who's beencontemplating it, who's been
pondering about it, who's beenasking our customers about it,
(22:13):
who's been thinking about it andhaving conversations on the
side, who's gathered some data,who thinks we ought to do it
this way instead of that way,who's got a position.
I want you on my team.
If you take positions and youstate them in a concise,
effective way and you're movable, that is the recipe for success
(22:41):
, for value add.
What you have in mostorganizations and most teams is
people who are just present.
They just really don't have anyideas.
They don't have a um, anopinion on these things.
They haven't thought through it, they don't really know where
(23:06):
they stand.
They're just kind of here or onthe other end of the extreme,
the the other extreme is peoplewho take a position, have an
opinion on everything andthey're not movable.
Like get, get those people outof here.
Like I've got no interest inthem, right, I'd rather them
than the milk toast.
People that are just kind ofdude.
Do you have a pulse?
(23:26):
Like hello, like anything goingon in there?
Like, do you even care aboutthis?
Do you have any passion aroundit, are you?
Because yeah, so I want you to.
I want you to first considerwhat I'm saying as it applies to
you and how you're showing upand then, secondarily, I want
(23:48):
you to analyze your team and thepeople you have on the team who
are just present.
Get rid of them, move on.
They're like, unless they're insome position where you need
them, like that, you just needneed a body, you just need
(24:08):
something, a pulse, like just goexecute and do this, whatever.
Otherwise, upgrade, upgradewith someone that's got a
position, somebody that that,that that's movable, somebody
who's got passion around what itis we're doing, somebody who's
got expertise, somebody whothinks about this, who cares
about it, somebody who's driven,somebody who's got expertise,
somebody who thinks about this,who cares about it, somebody
(24:29):
who's driven, somebody who'swants, wants to to make things
happen in this area, somebodywho's ideating on it and
thinking about it and, and youknow, just in innovating, like
my gosh, what could weaccomplish with more of them?
What I don't want is just themilk toast, like I.
I'm so embarrassed at the waythat I showed up in those early
(24:51):
days of me being in management.
What was I thinking?
I think it was a lack ofconfidence, quite honestly.
I think it was a lack ofknowing this, all of this stuff
that I'm talking about and um,and realizing that when you take
a position, you're advancingthe conversation Doesn't mean
you think you're right.
Do you know how many times Ioffer a position, an opinion?
(25:13):
I don't even know if I agreewith it, I'm just stating it.
I was on a call.
Just to end with this.
I was on a call a few minutesago with somebody that that we
brought on board to do somestuff for us, and I went into
the call.
I spent some time last nightbefore I went to bed taking a
position.
(25:34):
So I opened up a document andthis, whatever I took, I, I.
It took me 20 minutes to 15maybe, and I took like five or
six positions.
I think we should do this, Ithink we should do that, I think
we should do this, we should dothat.
So when the call began, I said,hey, do you mind if I share my
screen?
Here are some ideas.
And then this person justreacted to that.
Do you know how much moreefficient that is, how strong
(25:57):
that is compared to?
Hey, welcome to the call.
Yeah, I just wanted to have adiscussion with you and I really
don't have any idea.
What, whatever.
Do you have any ideas?
Or whatever like, oh my gosh,that's so slow and so wasteful.
Take a position, I show up withthe position.
Anyway, you get the point allright, something for you to
(26:18):
think about as it pertains toyou and as it pertains to the
people on your team.
That's what's on my mind,that's my position, that's my
opinion, that I want you toreact to and think about in this
episode of the Lead in 30podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Share this episode with a colleague, your team or a
friend.
Tap on the share button andtext the link.
Thanks for listening to theLead in 30 podcast with Russ
Hill.
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