June 6, 2025 • 30 mins
The 10 things he wish he knew when he was younger. Lone Rock Leadership co-founder Russ Hill shares a list of things he regrets not knowing when he was a younger manager. See what you think of the list and which ones you've unlocked through experience in managing people.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My top 10 biggest regrets, leading other people.
What do I wish I knew way backthen, when I started managing
teams, that nobody told me andit took me forever to unpack
this, to gain this wisdom.
I'm giving it to you, dishingit out the top 10 regrets things
(00:22):
I wish I knew in this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
This is the Lead in 30 podcast with russ hill.
You cannot be serious.
Strengthen your ability to leadin less than 30 minutes okay, I
gotta be fully transparent andhonest.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Um, I'm using the title in this episode of Top 10
Regrets and, to be honest, Idon't have regrets Like not
really, because I think peoplewho walk around with regrets,
they live in the past, they'retrying to undo something that
can't be undone, and so, fromjust just allow me to get this
(01:05):
out before I get to the top 10list Plus, I got a couple of
bonus ones in here I thinkyou're going to really enjoy
this episode.
These are things that it tookme forever to learn.
My guess is, some of this listyou're going to go like yeah, I
know that I figured that out.
Others are going to go oh mygosh, I've never thought about
that, and I'm going to save youa lot of pain in sharing this
(01:27):
wisdom with you without youhaving to go through the
experience of gaining it.
But before I do that, like Isaid, I don't really live with
regrets.
I live with mistakes, thingsthat I didn't learn early enough
.
But I have this fundamentalview of life, of this existence,
and I think it's to learn, it'sto gain experience, it's that
(01:47):
that mistakes are baked in,they're part of the process,
they're not something you walkaround and go.
Oh my gosh, I made a mistake.
I can't believe I made a wrongchoice.
Yeah, we're trying to minimizethem and reduce the number, but
you're going to be curious,you're going to experiment,
you're going to say things thatare just stupid.
You're going to repeat thatprocess over and over again.
(02:07):
You're going to develop badhabits.
You're going to developwhatever.
All these now learn from it andthen get up and keep moving.
And the people that over indexon regrets, oh my gosh, when I
was 13 years old, I did thisthing.
And when I was 24 and in mywhatever well, you know what?
People who don't let that go,and and and or, who was
(02:30):
surrounded by people who won'tlet it go, they just I don't
think they're healthy mentally,emotionally, spiritually,
whatever.
So, anyway, that's my littlesoapbox.
Welcome in to the lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, an idea, a
top 10 list, like we are today,best practice, story examples,
something for you to considerimplementing in the way that you
(02:51):
lead others.
My name is Russ Hill.
I'm just one member of the teamat Lone Rock leadership.
We've got an executiveconsulting part of our firm and
a off the shelf training,manager training solutions that
we offer as well.
You can find out more at lonerockio, lone rock leadership.
(03:11):
We share a ton that we've gotfour basic courses.
Because these are.
There are companies out therethat offer hundreds.
We think that's foolish.
We think their business modelsnot going to grow dramatically,
because quantity is not the gamein an AI generation.
It's.
It's a, because a computer canspit all that out to you.
It's about four focused areasbeing able to deliver results,
(03:35):
being able to lead throughchange, being able to
effectively and efficiently andat scale and speed, make
decisions.
And then how to show uppowerfully in every aspect of
your life.
That's what we teach LoneRockio.
Okay, top 10.
I'm just going to go right intothis list.
I typed these out, I wrote themup and I've given some thought
to them.
Are there others that wouldmake this type?
(03:57):
I spent like another day or twoor three, or even like another
hour or two or three.
I would probably cross some ofthese out and put some other
things on the list, but I was.
I was getting ready for apodcast episode, brainstorming
different things I wanted totalk about, and I thought this
would be a fun idea, so Icreated a list, I deleted a
couple, I added a couple in, Ideleted a few more, I added a
(04:18):
few, and so this isn't, thisisn't, the final list.
I'm just capturing some thatare on my mind at this moment.
Okay, so here we go Top 10regrets or things that I wish
wisdom that I wish I hadunlocked earlier in my
leadership career, and thiscomes from my own experience.
(04:39):
Well, it just comes from my ownexperience, which is managing
teams, leading teams indifferent industries and in
different areas of my life, aswell as working as all of you
who listen on a regular basisknow working with executives and
leadership teams, and we'retalking about thousands and
thousands and thousands ofleaders over the last gobs of
(05:00):
years.
Okay, and so from all of that,that's where this comes.
Okay, number one I wish that Iwould have spoken up more.
I wish I would have spoken upmore frequently in meetings and
in my early leadership days.
I was too quiet, I didn't weighin, I wasn't present enough.
(05:25):
I was there mentally.
I'm not like one of thosepeople that comes to a meeting
and like veggies and justdaydreaming.
You're like hello, is he evenhere?
No, I was totally present byand large 99% of the time in
meetings, my whole career, but Iwas a silent observer.
I got this coaching early in myconsulting career from other
(05:48):
people on projects that I workedon.
Right, they would say, russ,like you're thinking in the back
of the room, you'recontemplating things, and when
you open your mouth you say somereally interesting things.
But you're, you don't open yourmouth enough and, um, the team
needs to hear from you.
And so what I coach our clientson is, if you're in a meeting
let's say you're in an offsiteand it's going, you know, four
(06:08):
hours, six hours, whatever Ifyou haven't spoken up in a half
hour, silence is diminishingyour value.
Right, I've done that episodein the three.
Let's see, this is episode 378.
This one you're listening to.
So I've recorded 377 episodesbefore this and one you're
listening to.
So I've recorded 377 episodesbefore this.
And in all of those I've doneepisodes on silence.
Silence diminishing your value,I don't know once a year, once
(06:31):
every two years, because I'vebeen doing this podcast for a
lot of years.
And so, anyway, speak up, weigh, weigh in, offer your
perspective.
It might be agreeing withwhat's being said.
It might be challenging what'sbeing said, it might be offering
a story or perspective or somedata, but don't be a silent
observer.
I, I.
(06:52):
It took me too long to learnthat Number two and this is tied
to number one.
Number two is I wish I hadlearned earlier to formulate two
to three bullet points, or twoor three takeaways, observations
, insights to respond to or torespond with in meetings and
(07:13):
conversations.
In other words, I wish that Iwas more prepared to weigh in
and have something of value tocontribute in conversations, of
value to contribute inconversations.
So, as others are speaking, I'mwriting down two or three
things.
What?
What are my generalobservations?
What are the things that I'mthinking?
(07:33):
What insights could I offer?
What opinions do I have?
Not in some bleh where you'rejust belching all over the
meeting, which is what some ofyou do, or you have colleagues
that do that You're like I haveno idea what she just said and
it took her four minutes to sayit and I couldn't describe it.
Or she said 23 different things.
(07:53):
That is not an effectivecommunicator.
So I wish that I had learned atan earlier age to not only
speak up more frequently andcontribute, but then to
formulate two or three bulletpoints, two or three thoughts or
insights to share, so that whensomebody came to me, hey Russ,
what are you thinking on this?
I don't go.
Well, I am going to just makesomething up and here we go and
(08:17):
I just said a lot of nothing.
No, that is not how I want toshow up.
So I wish I had learned toformulate two or three
observations, insights to share.
Number three I wish I hadlearned, I wish I had figured
out at an earlier age that Iwasn't the decision maker.
I was invited to theconversation to inform the
(08:44):
decision maker.
Oh my gosh, with that I wouldhave half as many gray hairs, I
would not have nearly thewrinkles I have, I would not
have the um.
I would have a much healthierheart if I and I, from all
indications would knock on wood.
I think it's pretty healthy,but it'd be even better if I had
(09:04):
figured that out.
I spent so much emotion wasted,so much emotion, frustrated,
just really bugged by thedirection of certain decisions,
thinking that I was a decisionmaker because I was invited to
the discussion.
(09:24):
I was in the room, I was.
I was on the agenda, I was onthe executive team I was on.
Whatever I had the title ofthis, that or the other, I
wasn't the decision maker.
I was invited to inform thedecision maker and once I
figured that out, it wasliberating.
(09:45):
Number four your.
I wish I had figured this out,that I was not my job and you're
not your job.
I wish I had realized that Ishouldn't define myself by the
employer definition I work foror the position or title or
(10:06):
department or part of thebusiness that I was a part of.
I had a lot of pride being apart of certain organizations.
I still do, but it is onesliver of my identity and I over
indexed on that too early in mycareer or for, like most, a big
(10:27):
chunk of my career.
And so what I noticed was whensomebody was laid off, when
somebody wasn't doing super wellperformance wise, when somebody
didn't get a promotion, whensomebody was fired, whatever it
was that I could tell youstories.
I have one friend that he gotfired from a position.
It just wiped him out likedevastated and it's.
(10:54):
It's like a relationships rightwhen you over index on the
validation coming from oneperson.
It's a thing right, and so thatperson breaks up with you or
they view you negatively or theysay something about.
And if you're over indexed onthat part of your identity
attached to that individual orthat group or this title or
(11:17):
whatever, and it's just it's 90percent of your identity, it's
80 percent, then you're, you'resurrendering so much control and
it's just not healthy.
It's not it.
And so often you'll hear peopleeven say you know, I am this
and whatever, and they'reactually not that.
That's part of who they are.
And so, um, yeah, you're notyour job, I'm not my job, I'm
(11:42):
not because there's so much moreto you.
You're bigger than this.
Don't, don't limit youridentity to that.
Lots of things that could be.
You know all I'm flat Like.
Each one of these could be anepisode.
There's so much to unpack ineach one of these items and
we're only on item number fourand I got a few more than 10 to
get to Okay, so hopefully lightbulbs are going off, hopefully.
(12:05):
To get to Okay, so hopefullylight bulbs are going off.
Hopefully, there I've gotten toone, at least so far that
you're like oh, I haven't reallyspent a time, a lot of time,
thinking about that, or I knewthat instinctively, or I've
heard that before, I've thoughtit before but I forgot about it.
And now I'm dealing with thisthing and it's because I'm, I'm,
I'm not, I, I'm leaning intothis too much.
Okay, number five this one'sinteresting.
(12:28):
It's more tactical Salary.
Your salary is only one aspectof the job negotiation.
I didn't realize that, I didn'tknow that you start, like with
a new position or a promotion ora change of job or whatever.
Yes, you start by negotiatingthe salary, but then you go
(12:51):
places where the other party hasroom to give.
It took me forever to figurethis out.
I put all of my eggs in thesalary bucket, I'd negotiate
that and they'd come down alittle bit and I'd want to go up
and then they'd land.
We'd land at a figure and Ithink, oh, what I didn't realize
till later was no, there areperformance incentives.
(13:11):
Some of you you know you'refurther in your careers, you're
more experienced.
This makes total sense and andand you've learned it but the
younger you, the 22 year old,you are the 28 year old, you
didn't know this.
Probably some of you are atthat stage now.
So there are performanceincentives and, by the way, make
them shorter term.
Oh, I'm not a believer in theseannual bonuses.
(13:34):
What does that do?
Like I don't.
I mean, yes, we have to havethem in some instances, but so
many organizations have, likethe, the biggest incentive, the
or the only incentive for themasses, is this annual thing.
And then we, we worked throughthe year, we worked through the
year and and then we, we getclose to it, we were like, ah,
(13:55):
didn't get it and, and thathappens two or three times, or
we do get it and the person goeswell, I actually don't think I
did much to contribute, but I'mnot going to say that out loud,
because I got an extra $300,$700, $10,000, whatever it is,
depending on your position,where you are and what the
incentive is.
So you make them shorter term.
(14:17):
I think that incentives oughtto be 90 days, because you
reward the behavior you want tosee Right, and so I, yeah, a
year is just way too far.
And I remember when I wasoffered a chief strategy officer
of an organization.
They're like, when we sell thisthing down the road, you're
going to get X percentage andyou're going to have these
options or whatever.
I'm like do you know how manythings in this organization are
(14:38):
outside my control?
Do you know how long it's goingto be before that day actually
comes.
No, I'm not interested in that.
I'm going to go make that muchmoney in the next two years.
Give me some incentives, orgive me higher commission, or
give me this, that or the other,whatever it might be, and I
want I want control over whetheror not I got the incentive.
(15:01):
I don't want to surrender it tofour other people 40 other
people, 400 other people, 4 000other people, 40 000 other
people.
You think that's an?
Nah, um, so make them shorterterm.
Um, there are other things toobesides the.
So you've got salary that I cannegotiate.
I can negotiate a performancebonuses.
(15:21):
By the way, if you're going toan, they're not willing to give
you incentives tied toperformance, like what you're,
you're, you're in anorganization that's like living
in 1987, right, like, let's go.
This is like that.
Why wouldn't I reward you formaking things happen or projects
(15:42):
, project-based pay If you'renot tied to revenue, you're not
directly tied to revenue is theway to go.
I'm not paying you to show up.
That's insane.
Are you kidding me?
The only way I do that is if Iwas in the middle of some small
town somewhere.
We had no one to choose from.
That I yeah, I need to pay tohave a body in the seat, a human
(16:03):
, here.
Otherwise, no, I'm going to.
Project-based pay is so good.
Complete these things, thenmake this amount of money.
The other thing you cannegotiate is time off.
I didn't realize that earlier.
Like, oh, the company policy istwo weeks, or when you get to
five years or you get to 10years, we'll give you another
week.
Oh, are you kidding me?
And so, yeah, at the beginningyou've got no street cred, or
(16:29):
all you've got is a resume witha couple of degrees or one
degree on it.
If that, you don't have a lotof negotiating power.
But after you perform for alittle while, then it's OK.
I know the company policy it'sanother three years before I get
another week.
But I actually want my vacationto double If you performed well
.
And remember compensationfollows contribution, not the
(16:50):
other way.
So we don't pay you before youshow up, except unless you've
got incredible credibility.
Then there's a signing bonus,but, but otherwise compensation
follows contribution.
And so you, you, you show up,lights out for a year or two,
and then you go in and you'vegot some negotiating power.
(17:11):
Be ready to walk, be ready to gosomewhere else.
I remember when I first wentinto my first management
position at a media company andI went in and I was fully
prepared to walk.
I had no idea where I would go,but I knew that I developed
skills that were marketable,that somebody would want me, and
that was.
It wasn't going to be superhard for me to go find something
(17:32):
.
I believed in that.
So I went in and I said, hey,this is the, this is the job I'm
applying for.
I think I'm qualified for it.
I know there are other peoplewho are super qualified for it
too.
I just want to let you know, ifthis does, if you guys end up
not choosing me for this whichis, you know, great, like that's
all right, then I'm going todepart, like I'm going to go
seek another opportunity.
So if it works and it makessense, and you want to give me
this job, this title, put meinto management Awesome, I'd
(17:55):
love to be here longer.
I'd love to contribute in moremeaningful ways.
If not, if it doesn't makesense, that's where I'm going.
Boom, they gave it to me.
Okay, you can negotiatecomputers.
You can negotiate equipment.
You can negotiate cars.
You can negotiate working fromhome, more you can like there's
all these things.
I wish I'd known that earlier.
Number six visibility iseverything.
(18:18):
I thought the job of anexecutive was to build the
strategy and to execute on thetactics.
I didn't realize thisvisibility thing was a thing and
so I've done episodes in thepast about, you know, management
by walking around and theexperience I had in Washington
DC as a young manager when JoelOxley, the leader of WTOP radio
in Washington D, I asked him forhis secret and why how he
(18:43):
created this you know, numberone highest revenue generating
radio property this is way backyou know, number one highest
revenue generating radioproperty this is way back, you
know in the day.
And Joel, what's your secret,man?
And they said, walking around.
And I was like seriously Ididn't say it out loud because I
was so embarrassed, so let down, so disappointed that Joel was
(19:04):
such a simple, unsophisticatedbasic leader who hadn't really
unlocked any real wisdom.
That's what I thought as ayoung punk leader when he said
that.
Then, after years and years anda lot of experience working with
a lot of executives, do youknow any hospitals that we've
gone into as a firm over theyears where the problem, the
(19:27):
biggest problem with employeemorale, is from a lack of
visibility of the, themanagement.
Do you have any factories I'vebeen in that make everything
from just all kinds of stufffood to stuff that's in your
home, to whatever, to stuffthat's flying in the air, stuff
that's driving on the highway?
(19:47):
How many factories I've been inand worked with leadership
teams and what you discover?
The real problem with retentionand engagement and performance
and quality and on time, and allthat is the fact that they
can't see the leaders.
The leaders aren't visible.
And so there's this us versusthem mentality.
Visibility is everything, and so, in this day and age we live in
(20:08):
today, it's not just making therounds, walking.
I wish I'd done that.
Oh my gosh, did I screw that up?
And as a young leader, I stayedin my office.
I was working on strategypapers, documents.
I was, you know, I was buildingthe blueprint of what we were
building, which is criticallyimportant, but I didn't.
(20:29):
It would have only taken 30minutes an hour a day.
Get out, walk around, russ, bevisible.
In today's day and age, it'scalling calling somebody, just
like and just call them randomly.
Don't.
Text them Like it's.
I know it's shocking, I knowsome of you are uncomfortable,
but call somebody out of theblue who haven't you spoken to
in the last?
And if they're on your team, ifthey're direct reports you
(20:51):
haven't spoken to him in threeor four days.
What call them?
Okay, visibility is not email.
Okay, visibility is not email.
Oh, no, okay, um, yeah, thatjust makes me want to do another
whole episode on reduce noise.
A phone call is not noise.
Noise is emails, like man.
(21:11):
Just reduce the number ofemails you send, so inefficient.
If you're sending emails backand forth, there's software,
slack, androsoft, teams and allthis stuff that's out there.
That's so much better.
It's searchable, and then it'sit.
Well, yeah, oh my gosh, ifyou're sending a ton of emails
and you're not sell like sales,that's the way you do it.
(21:32):
Right, you're reaching out toclients.
You have no other way tocommunicate.
But you need to call thoseclients to be visible.
But if you're an executive,you're a manager.
Get out of the inbox, people,please.
That's a whole episode.
Okay, you are again 1987, maybe1997.
Get out of it.
Number seven define your ownrole.
(21:52):
Define your own role.
Don't have them define it.
That limits your upwardpotential.
Yeah, they're going to tell youthe position is the director of
whatever, the VP of whatever.
Here are the basic things.
Okay, great, that's thestarting place.
That's not the finish line.
Go, define it, customize it,expand it in an appropriate way,
(22:16):
after you're nailing or, by andlarge, building competency in
the specific areas assigned toyou, and then think broader.
Specialists don't get promoted.
Generalists do.
Specialists don't expand theirincome.
Generalists do we could.
There's just so many, so muchwe could say about that.
(22:37):
We need specialists andorganizations and so, if you're
good, just kind of stand whereyou're at, stay the specialist.
But if you want to grow, if youwant to scale, if you want to
learn, if you want to unlockadditional wisdom, generalist,
expand the role.
Number eight they are whothey're showing you.
(22:58):
They are oh my gosh, I wish Ilearned that earlier.
So and so on the team.
You hired them and they'releaning into these projects and
they're talking about this andthey're doing that, and you
think, oh well, we'll talk tothem and we'll have a
conversation with them and we'llmove this around.
They are who they are showingyou.
They are.
I got to find a simpler way tosay that they are who they are,
(23:21):
whatever.
Who you, who they're showingyou.
It's important that they'reshowing it to you.
Not you think they're that way,but they've actually
demonstrated it.
They've created consistentexperiences around it.
We talk about this all the timein our firm.
I talk about it with executivesall the time that we're
coaching.
No, Linda is like.
I know you want to give her thebenefit of the doubt.
(23:44):
That's so generous of you, butit's been six months now.
She is.
She naturally leans away from X.
She naturally doesn't do Y.
Mike doesn't.
He's not good at that thing.
He doesn't want to do it.
He's going to show up the sameway.
Stop fooling yourself, okay.
(24:06):
Now, having said that, um, letme go to.
Uh, yeah, I was going to savethis for the end, but I'll go to
it Cause it's connected to that, cause this is on the flip side
of that point, and so some ofyou are going to see this as a
contradiction.
I don't think it's that way.
Um, and, and you'll just haveto understand I don't have time
in this episode cause I'mgetting short on time and I got
(24:27):
to wrap it up, but I've got afew more that I got to get to.
But, um, the next item.
I'd say so.
This is now um number nine.
Number nine is confirmation.
Bias is real.
What I mean by that is somepeople aren't movable, so, in
other words, they hold a beliefabout you.
(24:48):
They have defined you a certainway.
You created one experience, ormaybe a couple of them, but you
are movable.
You do have the ability, thedesire, the intent and the
discipline, the motivation thatyou are showing up differently
(25:09):
and they're not letting you,they're not giving you grace.
You need to have empathy forthose people, not resentment,
because they're screwingthemselves over.
They're that way not just atwork and not just with you.
They're that way about theirspouse.
They're that way about theirmother or father.
They're that way about theirchildren.
(25:30):
They're that way about theirneighbor.
They're that way abouteverywhere.
One person, they the personforgets to take the trash out
Once they've labeled them.
The person doesn't call them ontheir birthday.
They label them.
The person doesn't do that.
They label them.
They're just looking for labelsfor everybody, and it
simplifies their life.
They can put you in a box.
They don't ever have to thinkabout it again.
(25:50):
You are that way, man.
I could tell you a story.
There's so much pain that I'veexperienced in the certain
moments of my career becausesomebody wasn't movable and I
thought what are you talkingabout?
Like you've totally defined methe wrong way, or at least what
you're saying.
I am who you're saying I am.
I don't want to be that person,so I'm totally committed to
showing up differently than that.
(26:11):
Nope, and I stopped.
I learned to stop giving thosepeople power in my life.
Okay, we got to move to thenext one, even though I could do
a whole episode on that.
Number 10, buy-in matters a lot.
You can't row the boat byyourself.
(26:33):
What do I mean by that?
It seems fairly obvious.
Most of you are going yeah, Igot that.
Like I understand that.
Duh.
Well, yeah, but you just wanteveryone to get aligned right
away.
I sucked at this.
Oh my gosh, have I sucked atthis?
I created all kinds of badexperiences in my career by not
(26:55):
being patient enough with othersto get to where I already was.
I'd been thinking about thisthing, I'd been studying it.
I've been strategizing around.
I take it to the team and Iexpect them to be on board in a
half a second, and when theyhesitate, I'm getting all antsy
and been out of shape.
Okay, I could do more on that.
(27:15):
I only have a few more and Ineed to get to them.
Okay, buy-in matters a ton.
You need to allow people, youneed to put the effort in to get
them aligned.
Their or will matter a ton.
Let's see.
I already covered that one,actually, so I'm going to remove
one and we'll just go with onemore, and that is disrupt
yourself every two to threeyears.
(27:37):
It leads to the most growth.
I wish I'd figured that outearlier.
There were, there are, areas ofmy career, periods of my career,
where I waited too long.
I stood on the cliff and I sawthe fast moving river below that
(27:57):
could take me to a beautifulpart of the Canyon I hadn't yet
seen, and yet I stood there andI stood there and I stood there
and I wanted to jump and Iwondered about jumping and I
wondered what was around thecorner.
I thought I could float downthat river and I thought I could
swim in it and I thought itwould be an amazing journey.
(28:17):
But I just stood here foreverand then, finally, someone or
something did something.
But I just stood here foreverand then, finally, someone or
something did something or Ifinally got to the end, and I've
needed to be pushed too oftenand I've learned now disrupt.
Every time there's been adisruption.
It's been wonderful, not in themoment, no, not in the moment.
It's been scary, it's been, uh,intimidating, it's been
(28:41):
humbling, it's been embarrassingsometimes in the changes, um,
but then I get a little bit.
You know, you get that raftgoing, you start swimming,
whatever.
You get around the corner ofthe king, you're like, oh my
gosh, it's beautiful over here.
Why was I stuck?
Yeah, that was really prettytoo, but this is next level.
(29:03):
So disrupt yourself, and mybelief is that, for most of us,
about two to three years iswhere you're getting comfortable
.
You developed competence,you've got.
You got a system going for you.
I mean, you've already nowunpacked the wisdom that's
available to you in this place.
And you've already now unpackedthe wisdom that's available to
you in this place, and it's thatyour growth curve is slowing
(29:24):
down.
Don't wait for others todisrupt.
Jump, got it.
Those are some of my regrets,some of the wisdom that I've
unlocked that I wish I hadunlocked earlier in my career.
I hope that's helpful.
I hope I got you thinking aboutsome different things that are
going on in your life that youmight adjust or think about or
(29:44):
do differently, and that was afun episode to do so.
Anyway, appreciate youlistening to it.
Hope that I gave you some ideasto implement.
That's what's on my mind inthis episode of the Lead in 30
podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Share this episode with a colleague, your team or a
friend.
Tap on the share button andtext the link.
Thanks for listening to theLead in 30 podcast with Russ
Hill.
My top 10 biggest regrets, leading other people.
What do I wish I knew way backthen, when I started managing
teams, that nobody told me andit took me forever to unpack
this, to gain this wisdom.
I'm giving it to you, dishingit out the top 10 regrets things
(00:22):
I wish I knew in this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
This is the Lead in 30 podcast with russ hill.
You cannot be serious.
Strengthen your ability to leadin less than 30 minutes okay, I
gotta be fully transparent andhonest.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Um, I'm using the title in this episode of Top 10
Regrets and, to be honest, Idon't have regrets Like not
really, because I think peoplewho walk around with regrets,
they live in the past, they'retrying to undo something that
can't be undone, and so, fromjust just allow me to get this
(01:05):
out before I get to the top 10list Plus, I got a couple of
bonus ones in here I thinkyou're going to really enjoy
this episode.
These are things that it tookme forever to learn.
My guess is, some of this listyou're going to go like yeah, I
know that I figured that out.
Others are going to go oh mygosh, I've never thought about
that, and I'm going to save youa lot of pain in sharing this
(01:27):
wisdom with you without youhaving to go through the
experience of gaining it.
But before I do that, like Isaid, I don't really live with
regrets.
I live with mistakes, thingsthat I didn't learn early enough
.
But I have this fundamentalview of life, of this existence,
and I think it's to learn, it'sto gain experience, it's that
(01:47):
that mistakes are baked in,they're part of the process,
they're not something you walkaround and go.
Oh my gosh, I made a mistake.
I can't believe I made a wrongchoice.
Yeah, we're trying to minimizethem and reduce the number, but
you're going to be curious,you're going to experiment,
you're going to say things thatare just stupid.
You're going to repeat thatprocess over and over again.
(02:07):
You're going to develop badhabits.
You're going to developwhatever.
All these now learn from it andthen get up and keep moving.
And the people that over indexon regrets, oh my gosh, when I
was 13 years old, I did thisthing.
And when I was 24 and in mywhatever well, you know what?
People who don't let that go,and and and or, who was
(02:30):
surrounded by people who won'tlet it go, they just I don't
think they're healthy mentally,emotionally, spiritually,
whatever.
So, anyway, that's my littlesoapbox.
Welcome in to the lead in 30podcast.
In less than 30 minutes, we'llgive you a framework, an idea, a
top 10 list, like we are today,best practice, story examples,
something for you to considerimplementing in the way that you
(02:51):
lead others.
My name is Russ Hill.
I'm just one member of the teamat Lone Rock leadership.
We've got an executiveconsulting part of our firm and
a off the shelf training,manager training solutions that
we offer as well.
You can find out more at lonerockio, lone rock leadership.
(03:11):
We share a ton that we've gotfour basic courses.
Because these are.
There are companies out therethat offer hundreds.
We think that's foolish.
We think their business modelsnot going to grow dramatically,
because quantity is not the gamein an AI generation.
It's.
It's a, because a computer canspit all that out to you.
It's about four focused areasbeing able to deliver results,
(03:35):
being able to lead throughchange, being able to
effectively and efficiently andat scale and speed, make
decisions.
And then how to show uppowerfully in every aspect of
your life.
That's what we teach LoneRockio.
Okay, top 10.
I'm just going to go right intothis list.
I typed these out, I wrote themup and I've given some thought
to them.
Are there others that wouldmake this type?
(03:57):
I spent like another day or twoor three, or even like another
hour or two or three.
I would probably cross some ofthese out and put some other
things on the list, but I was.
I was getting ready for apodcast episode, brainstorming
different things I wanted totalk about, and I thought this
would be a fun idea, so Icreated a list, I deleted a
couple, I added a couple in, Ideleted a few more, I added a
(04:18):
few, and so this isn't, thisisn't, the final list.
I'm just capturing some thatare on my mind at this moment.
Okay, so here we go Top 10regrets or things that I wish
wisdom that I wish I hadunlocked earlier in my
leadership career, and thiscomes from my own experience.
(04:39):
Well, it just comes from my ownexperience, which is managing
teams, leading teams indifferent industries and in
different areas of my life, aswell as working as all of you
who listen on a regular basisknow working with executives and
leadership teams, and we'retalking about thousands and
thousands and thousands ofleaders over the last gobs of
(05:00):
years.
Okay, and so from all of that,that's where this comes.
Okay, number one I wish that Iwould have spoken up more.
I wish I would have spoken upmore frequently in meetings and
in my early leadership days.
I was too quiet, I didn't weighin, I wasn't present enough.
(05:25):
I was there mentally.
I'm not like one of thosepeople that comes to a meeting
and like veggies and justdaydreaming.
You're like hello, is he evenhere?
No, I was totally present byand large 99% of the time in
meetings, my whole career, but Iwas a silent observer.
I got this coaching early in myconsulting career from other
(05:48):
people on projects that I workedon.
Right, they would say, russ,like you're thinking in the back
of the room, you'recontemplating things, and when
you open your mouth you say somereally interesting things.
But you're, you don't open yourmouth enough and, um, the team
needs to hear from you.
And so what I coach our clientson is, if you're in a meeting
let's say you're in an offsiteand it's going, you know, four
(06:08):
hours, six hours, whatever Ifyou haven't spoken up in a half
hour, silence is diminishingyour value.
Right, I've done that episodein the three.
Let's see, this is episode 378.
This one you're listening to.
So I've recorded 377 episodesbefore this and one you're
listening to.
So I've recorded 377 episodesbefore this.
And in all of those I've doneepisodes on silence.
Silence diminishing your value,I don't know once a year, once
(06:31):
every two years, because I'vebeen doing this podcast for a
lot of years.
And so, anyway, speak up, weigh, weigh in, offer your
perspective.
It might be agreeing withwhat's being said.
It might be challenging what'sbeing said, it might be offering
a story or perspective or somedata, but don't be a silent
observer.
I, I.
(06:52):
It took me too long to learnthat Number two and this is tied
to number one.
Number two is I wish I hadlearned earlier to formulate two
to three bullet points, or twoor three takeaways, observations
, insights to respond to or torespond with in meetings and
(07:13):
conversations.
In other words, I wish that Iwas more prepared to weigh in
and have something of value tocontribute in conversations, of
value to contribute inconversations.
So, as others are speaking, I'mwriting down two or three
things.
What?
What are my generalobservations?
What are the things that I'mthinking?
(07:33):
What insights could I offer?
What opinions do I have?
Not in some bleh where you'rejust belching all over the
meeting, which is what some ofyou do, or you have colleagues
that do that You're like I haveno idea what she just said and
it took her four minutes to sayit and I couldn't describe it.
Or she said 23 different things.
(07:53):
That is not an effectivecommunicator.
So I wish that I had learned atan earlier age to not only
speak up more frequently andcontribute, but then to
formulate two or three bulletpoints, two or three thoughts or
insights to share, so that whensomebody came to me, hey Russ,
what are you thinking on this?
I don't go.
Well, I am going to just makesomething up and here we go and
(08:17):
I just said a lot of nothing.
No, that is not how I want toshow up.
So I wish I had learned toformulate two or three
observations, insights to share.
Number three I wish I hadlearned, I wish I had figured
out at an earlier age that Iwasn't the decision maker.
I was invited to theconversation to inform the
(08:44):
decision maker.
Oh my gosh, with that I wouldhave half as many gray hairs, I
would not have nearly thewrinkles I have, I would not
have the um.
I would have a much healthierheart if I and I, from all
indications would knock on wood.
I think it's pretty healthy,but it'd be even better if I had
(09:04):
figured that out.
I spent so much emotion wasted,so much emotion, frustrated,
just really bugged by thedirection of certain decisions,
thinking that I was a decisionmaker because I was invited to
the discussion.
(09:24):
I was in the room, I was.
I was on the agenda, I was onthe executive team I was on.
Whatever I had the title ofthis, that or the other, I
wasn't the decision maker.
I was invited to inform thedecision maker and once I
figured that out, it wasliberating.
(09:45):
Number four your.
I wish I had figured this out,that I was not my job and you're
not your job.
I wish I had realized that Ishouldn't define myself by the
employer definition I work foror the position or title or
(10:06):
department or part of thebusiness that I was a part of.
I had a lot of pride being apart of certain organizations.
I still do, but it is onesliver of my identity and I over
indexed on that too early in mycareer or for, like most, a big
(10:27):
chunk of my career.
And so what I noticed was whensomebody was laid off, when
somebody wasn't doing super wellperformance wise, when somebody
didn't get a promotion, whensomebody was fired, whatever it
was that I could tell youstories.
I have one friend that he gotfired from a position.
It just wiped him out likedevastated and it's.
(10:54):
It's like a relationships rightwhen you over index on the
validation coming from oneperson.
It's a thing right, and so thatperson breaks up with you or
they view you negatively or theysay something about.
And if you're over indexed onthat part of your identity
attached to that individual orthat group or this title or
(11:17):
whatever, and it's just it's 90percent of your identity, it's
80 percent, then you're, you'resurrendering so much control and
it's just not healthy.
It's not it.
And so often you'll hear peopleeven say you know, I am this
and whatever, and they'reactually not that.
That's part of who they are.
And so, um, yeah, you're notyour job, I'm not my job, I'm
(11:42):
not because there's so much moreto you.
You're bigger than this.
Don't, don't limit youridentity to that.
Lots of things that could be.
You know all I'm flat Like.
Each one of these could be anepisode.
There's so much to unpack ineach one of these items and
we're only on item number fourand I got a few more than 10 to
get to Okay, so hopefully lightbulbs are going off, hopefully.
(12:05):
To get to Okay, so hopefullylight bulbs are going off.
Hopefully, there I've gotten toone, at least so far that
you're like oh, I haven't reallyspent a time, a lot of time,
thinking about that, or I knewthat instinctively, or I've
heard that before, I've thoughtit before but I forgot about it.
And now I'm dealing with thisthing and it's because I'm, I'm,
I'm not, I, I'm leaning intothis too much.
Okay, number five this one'sinteresting.
(12:28):
It's more tactical Salary.
Your salary is only one aspectof the job negotiation.
I didn't realize that, I didn'tknow that you start, like with
a new position or a promotion ora change of job or whatever.
Yes, you start by negotiatingthe salary, but then you go
(12:51):
places where the other party hasroom to give.
It took me forever to figurethis out.
I put all of my eggs in thesalary bucket, I'd negotiate
that and they'd come down alittle bit and I'd want to go up
and then they'd land.
We'd land at a figure and Ithink, oh, what I didn't realize
till later was no, there areperformance incentives.
(13:11):
Some of you you know you'refurther in your careers, you're
more experienced.
This makes total sense and andand you've learned it but the
younger you, the 22 year old,you are the 28 year old, you
didn't know this.
Probably some of you are atthat stage now.
So there are performanceincentives and, by the way, make
them shorter term.
Oh, I'm not a believer in theseannual bonuses.
(13:34):
What does that do?
Like I don't.
I mean, yes, we have to havethem in some instances, but so
many organizations have, likethe, the biggest incentive, the
or the only incentive for themasses, is this annual thing.
And then we, we worked throughthe year, we worked through the
year and and then we, we getclose to it, we were like, ah,
(13:55):
didn't get it and, and thathappens two or three times, or
we do get it and the person goeswell, I actually don't think I
did much to contribute, but I'mnot going to say that out loud,
because I got an extra $300,$700, $10,000, whatever it is,
depending on your position,where you are and what the
incentive is.
So you make them shorter term.
(14:17):
I think that incentives oughtto be 90 days, because you
reward the behavior you want tosee Right, and so I, yeah, a
year is just way too far.
And I remember when I wasoffered a chief strategy officer
of an organization.
They're like, when we sell thisthing down the road, you're
going to get X percentage andyou're going to have these
options or whatever.
I'm like do you know how manythings in this organization are
(14:38):
outside my control?
Do you know how long it's goingto be before that day actually
comes.
No, I'm not interested in that.
I'm going to go make that muchmoney in the next two years.
Give me some incentives, orgive me higher commission, or
give me this, that or the other,whatever it might be, and I
want I want control over whetheror not I got the incentive.
(15:01):
I don't want to surrender it tofour other people 40 other
people, 400 other people, 4 000other people, 40 000 other
people.
You think that's an?
Nah, um, so make them shorterterm.
Um, there are other things toobesides the.
So you've got salary that I cannegotiate.
I can negotiate a performancebonuses.
(15:21):
By the way, if you're going toan, they're not willing to give
you incentives tied toperformance, like what you're,
you're, you're in anorganization that's like living
in 1987, right, like, let's go.
This is like that.
Why wouldn't I reward you formaking things happen or projects
(15:42):
, project-based pay If you'renot tied to revenue, you're not
directly tied to revenue is theway to go.
I'm not paying you to show up.
That's insane.
Are you kidding me?
The only way I do that is if Iwas in the middle of some small
town somewhere.
We had no one to choose from.
That I yeah, I need to pay tohave a body in the seat, a human
(16:03):
, here.
Otherwise, no, I'm going to.
Project-based pay is so good.
Complete these things, thenmake this amount of money.
The other thing you cannegotiate is time off.
I didn't realize that earlier.
Like, oh, the company policy istwo weeks, or when you get to
five years or you get to 10years, we'll give you another
week.
Oh, are you kidding me?
And so, yeah, at the beginningyou've got no street cred, or
(16:29):
all you've got is a resume witha couple of degrees or one
degree on it.
If that, you don't have a lotof negotiating power.
But after you perform for alittle while, then it's OK.
I know the company policy it'sanother three years before I get
another week.
But I actually want my vacationto double If you performed well
.
And remember compensationfollows contribution, not the
(16:50):
other way.
So we don't pay you before youshow up, except unless you've
got incredible credibility.
Then there's a signing bonus,but, but otherwise compensation
follows contribution.
And so you, you, you show up,lights out for a year or two,
and then you go in and you'vegot some negotiating power.
(17:11):
Be ready to walk, be ready to gosomewhere else.
I remember when I first wentinto my first management
position at a media company andI went in and I was fully
prepared to walk.
I had no idea where I would go,but I knew that I developed
skills that were marketable,that somebody would want me, and
that was.
It wasn't going to be superhard for me to go find something
(17:32):
.
I believed in that.
So I went in and I said, hey,this is the, this is the job I'm
applying for.
I think I'm qualified for it.
I know there are other peoplewho are super qualified for it
too.
I just want to let you know, ifthis does, if you guys end up
not choosing me for this whichis, you know, great, like that's
all right, then I'm going todepart, like I'm going to go
seek another opportunity.
So if it works and it makessense, and you want to give me
this job, this title, put meinto management Awesome, I'd
(17:55):
love to be here longer.
I'd love to contribute in moremeaningful ways.
If not, if it doesn't makesense, that's where I'm going.
Boom, they gave it to me.
Okay, you can negotiatecomputers.
You can negotiate equipment.
You can negotiate cars.
You can negotiate working fromhome, more you can like there's
all these things.
I wish I'd known that earlier.
Number six visibility iseverything.
(18:18):
I thought the job of anexecutive was to build the
strategy and to execute on thetactics.
I didn't realize thisvisibility thing was a thing and
so I've done episodes in thepast about, you know, management
by walking around and theexperience I had in Washington
DC as a young manager when JoelOxley, the leader of WTOP radio
in Washington D, I asked him forhis secret and why how he
(18:43):
created this you know, numberone highest revenue generating
radio property this is way backyou know, number one highest
revenue generating radioproperty this is way back, you
know in the day.
And Joel, what's your secret,man?
And they said, walking around.
And I was like seriously Ididn't say it out loud because I
was so embarrassed, so let down, so disappointed that Joel was
(19:04):
such a simple, unsophisticatedbasic leader who hadn't really
unlocked any real wisdom.
That's what I thought as ayoung punk leader when he said
that.
Then, after years and years anda lot of experience working with
a lot of executives, do youknow any hospitals that we've
gone into as a firm over theyears where the problem, the
(19:27):
biggest problem with employeemorale, is from a lack of
visibility of the, themanagement.
Do you have any factories I'vebeen in that make everything
from just all kinds of stufffood to stuff that's in your
home, to whatever, to stuffthat's flying in the air, stuff
that's driving on the highway?
(19:47):
How many factories I've been inand worked with leadership
teams and what you discover?
The real problem with retentionand engagement and performance
and quality and on time, and allthat is the fact that they
can't see the leaders.
The leaders aren't visible.
And so there's this us versusthem mentality.
Visibility is everything, and so, in this day and age we live in
(20:08):
today, it's not just making therounds, walking.
I wish I'd done that.
Oh my gosh, did I screw that up?
And as a young leader, I stayedin my office.
I was working on strategypapers, documents.
I was, you know, I was buildingthe blueprint of what we were
building, which is criticallyimportant, but I didn't.
(20:29):
It would have only taken 30minutes an hour a day.
Get out, walk around, russ, bevisible.
In today's day and age, it'scalling calling somebody, just
like and just call them randomly.
Don't.
Text them Like it's.
I know it's shocking, I knowsome of you are uncomfortable,
but call somebody out of theblue who haven't you spoken to
in the last?
And if they're on your team, ifthey're direct reports you
(20:51):
haven't spoken to him in threeor four days.
What call them?
Okay, visibility is not email.
Okay, visibility is not email.
Oh, no, okay, um, yeah, thatjust makes me want to do another
whole episode on reduce noise.
A phone call is not noise.
Noise is emails, like man.
(21:11):
Just reduce the number ofemails you send, so inefficient.
If you're sending emails backand forth, there's software,
slack, androsoft, teams and allthis stuff that's out there.
That's so much better.
It's searchable, and then it'sit.
Well, yeah, oh my gosh, ifyou're sending a ton of emails
and you're not sell like sales,that's the way you do it.
(21:32):
Right, you're reaching out toclients.
You have no other way tocommunicate.
But you need to call thoseclients to be visible.
But if you're an executive,you're a manager.
Get out of the inbox, people,please.
That's a whole episode.
Okay, you are again 1987, maybe1997.
Get out of it.
Number seven define your ownrole.
(21:52):
Define your own role.
Don't have them define it.
That limits your upwardpotential.
Yeah, they're going to tell youthe position is the director of
whatever, the VP of whatever.
Here are the basic things.
Okay, great, that's thestarting place.
That's not the finish line.
Go, define it, customize it,expand it in an appropriate way,
(22:16):
after you're nailing or, by andlarge, building competency in
the specific areas assigned toyou, and then think broader.
Specialists don't get promoted.
Generalists do.
Specialists don't expand theirincome.
Generalists do we could.
There's just so many, so muchwe could say about that.
(22:37):
We need specialists andorganizations and so, if you're
good, just kind of stand whereyou're at, stay the specialist.
But if you want to grow, if youwant to scale, if you want to
learn, if you want to unlockadditional wisdom, generalist,
expand the role.
Number eight they are whothey're showing you.
(22:58):
They are oh my gosh, I wish Ilearned that earlier.
So and so on the team.
You hired them and they'releaning into these projects and
they're talking about this andthey're doing that, and you
think, oh well, we'll talk tothem and we'll have a
conversation with them and we'llmove this around.
They are who they are showingyou.
They are.
I got to find a simpler way tosay that they are who they are,
(23:21):
whatever.
Who you, who they're showingyou.
It's important that they'reshowing it to you.
Not you think they're that way,but they've actually
demonstrated it.
They've created consistentexperiences around it.
We talk about this all the timein our firm.
I talk about it with executivesall the time that we're
coaching.
No, Linda is like.
I know you want to give her thebenefit of the doubt.
(23:44):
That's so generous of you, butit's been six months now.
She is.
She naturally leans away from X.
She naturally doesn't do Y.
Mike doesn't.
He's not good at that thing.
He doesn't want to do it.
He's going to show up the sameway.
Stop fooling yourself, okay.
(24:06):
Now, having said that, um, letme go to.
Uh, yeah, I was going to savethis for the end, but I'll go to
it Cause it's connected to that, cause this is on the flip side
of that point, and so some ofyou are going to see this as a
contradiction.
I don't think it's that way.
Um, and, and you'll just haveto understand I don't have time
in this episode cause I'mgetting short on time and I got
(24:27):
to wrap it up, but I've got afew more that I got to get to.
But, um, the next item.
I'd say so.
This is now um number nine.
Number nine is confirmation.
Bias is real.
What I mean by that is somepeople aren't movable, so, in
other words, they hold a beliefabout you.
(24:48):
They have defined you a certainway.
You created one experience, ormaybe a couple of them, but you
are movable.
You do have the ability, thedesire, the intent and the
discipline, the motivation thatyou are showing up differently
(25:09):
and they're not letting you,they're not giving you grace.
You need to have empathy forthose people, not resentment,
because they're screwingthemselves over.
They're that way not just atwork and not just with you.
They're that way about theirspouse.
They're that way about theirmother or father.
They're that way about theirchildren.
(25:30):
They're that way about theirneighbor.
They're that way abouteverywhere.
One person, they the personforgets to take the trash out
Once they've labeled them.
The person doesn't call them ontheir birthday.
They label them.
The person doesn't do that.
They label them.
They're just looking for labelsfor everybody, and it
simplifies their life.
They can put you in a box.
They don't ever have to thinkabout it again.
(25:50):
You are that way, man.
I could tell you a story.
There's so much pain that I'veexperienced in the certain
moments of my career becausesomebody wasn't movable and I
thought what are you talkingabout?
Like you've totally defined methe wrong way, or at least what
you're saying.
I am who you're saying I am.
I don't want to be that person,so I'm totally committed to
showing up differently than that.
(26:11):
Nope, and I stopped.
I learned to stop giving thosepeople power in my life.
Okay, we got to move to thenext one, even though I could do
a whole episode on that.
Number 10, buy-in matters a lot.
You can't row the boat byyourself.
(26:33):
What do I mean by that?
It seems fairly obvious.
Most of you are going yeah, Igot that.
Like I understand that.
Duh.
Well, yeah, but you just wanteveryone to get aligned right
away.
I sucked at this.
Oh my gosh, have I sucked atthis?
I created all kinds of badexperiences in my career by not
(26:55):
being patient enough with othersto get to where I already was.
I'd been thinking about thisthing, I'd been studying it.
I've been strategizing around.
I take it to the team and Iexpect them to be on board in a
half a second, and when theyhesitate, I'm getting all antsy
and been out of shape.
Okay, I could do more on that.
(27:15):
I only have a few more and Ineed to get to them.
Okay, buy-in matters a ton.
You need to allow people, youneed to put the effort in to get
them aligned.
Their or will matter a ton.
Let's see.
I already covered that one,actually, so I'm going to remove
one and we'll just go with onemore, and that is disrupt
yourself every two to threeyears.
(27:37):
It leads to the most growth.
I wish I'd figured that outearlier.
There were, there are, areas ofmy career, periods of my career,
where I waited too long.
I stood on the cliff and I sawthe fast moving river below that
(27:57):
could take me to a beautifulpart of the Canyon I hadn't yet
seen, and yet I stood there andI stood there and I stood there
and I wanted to jump and Iwondered about jumping and I
wondered what was around thecorner.
I thought I could float downthat river and I thought I could
swim in it and I thought itwould be an amazing journey.
(28:17):
But I just stood here foreverand then, finally, someone or
something did something.
But I just stood here foreverand then, finally, someone or
something did something or Ifinally got to the end, and I've
needed to be pushed too oftenand I've learned now disrupt.
Every time there's been adisruption.
It's been wonderful, not in themoment, no, not in the moment.
It's been scary, it's been, uh,intimidating, it's been
(28:41):
humbling, it's been embarrassingsometimes in the changes, um,
but then I get a little bit.
You know, you get that raftgoing, you start swimming,
whatever.
You get around the corner ofthe king, you're like, oh my
gosh, it's beautiful over here.
Why was I stuck?
Yeah, that was really prettytoo, but this is next level.
(29:03):
So disrupt yourself, and mybelief is that, for most of us,
about two to three years iswhere you're getting comfortable
.
You developed competence,you've got.
You got a system going for you.
I mean, you've already nowunpacked the wisdom that's
available to you in this place.
And you've already now unpackedthe wisdom that's available to
you in this place, and it's thatyour growth curve is slowing
(29:24):
down.
Don't wait for others todisrupt.
Jump, got it.
Those are some of my regrets,some of the wisdom that I've
unlocked that I wish I hadunlocked earlier in my career.
I hope that's helpful.
I hope I got you thinking aboutsome different things that are
going on in your life that youmight adjust or think about or
(29:44):
do differently, and that was afun episode to do so.
Anyway, appreciate youlistening to it.
Hope that I gave you some ideasto implement.
That's what's on my mind inthis episode of the Lead in 30
podcast.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Share this episode with a colleague, your team or a
friend.
Tap on the share button andtext the link.
Thanks for listening to theLead in 30 podcast with Russ
Hill.
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