January 21, 2025 • 58 mins
This episode highlights the central theme of transforming the church’s approach to mission work by prioritizing outreach and collaboration. Dr. David Maier discusses the rebranding of the Mission Partners Platform into ‘The Center’ and focuses on unity, humility, and effective community engagement within church leadership.
• Importance of making Jesus the center of ministry
• Rebranding Mission Partners Platform to The Center for collaborative outreach
• Challenges at Synod Conventions and need for a shift in culture
• Emphasis on humility and open communication among church leaders
• Encouragement for pastors to strengthen family relationships
• Need for unique strategies tailored to diverse church circumstances
• Mobilizing all church members to embrace their missionary identity
If you want to connect and explore more about our initiatives, reach out to David at david@thecenter.info
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Lead Time.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to Lead Time, tim Allman here.
Jack Calberg has the day off.
I pray the joy of Jesus is withyou today as I get to hang out
with one of my favorite leaderson planet Earth, reverend Dr
David Meyer.
And let me tell you a littlebit about David.
David has served in a number ofdifferent roles.
As a right out of school backin 82 to 84, he was a mission
(00:23):
pastor.
I'm going to put a little pinin that.
Guess what pastor?
Every pastor is a missionpastor, but there may have been
a title back in the day of amission pastor.
He was also a youth pastor for awhile at St Peter's Lutheran
Church in Arlington Heights.
That's quite a church.
In the Lutheran Church,missouri ascended from 84 to 89.
He was a lead pastor then at StPeter's for a little bit of
(00:45):
time and then he took a call.
Actually was 20 years as asenior pastor at Our Savior
Lutheran Church in Lansing,michigan, and then was the
district president for 13 years,with one extra year thrown in
for extra measure during COVID.
Thank you very much.
And after leaving the districtoffice there in Michigan, he's
now serving as executivedirector of Mission Partners
(01:07):
Platform, which a newannouncement is taking place
right now.
David, before we get to thatannouncement, how are you doing,
brother?
Thank you for hanging with metoday.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I appreciate it, tim, very complimentary of you, and
I'm honored to be on thispodcast.
You are a highly respectedindividual podcast.
You are a highly respectedindividual and the times that
I've been able to listen to youspeak and the time that I
worship with you at church havebeen blessings for myself.
I know my wife would say theexact same thing, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Hey, well, the honor and joy is mine.
This is so much fun.
I love doing these podcastsbecause you get to hang out with
friends and then make newfriends as well.
So give us the update onMission Partners Platform.
There's a change that's takingplace.
I'll let you do the honorsthere, David Sure.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Tim, if you don't mind, just a little history.
Mission Partners Platformreally was put together back in
I'm going to say 2016-ish, andthat was when people were just,
you know, coming off of aconvention and there was some
discouragement and it didn'tmatter really which side of the
aisle and they're probably oursides, that's no secret is that
(02:14):
there was no real emphasisplaced on any type of missional
outreach, missional outcomes,knowing that God loved the world
, that Jesus was sent for theworld, and so, you know, mission
Partners Platform then becameover the years, as these lay
people gathered and pastors andsome district presidents became
(02:39):
more formalized.
First it was Spiritual,theological, constitutional STC,
then it became Mission PartnersPlatform and it's growing.
And, you know, really in thelast two, three weeks after we
had our first collaboration,which is kind of our convocation
or even convention, we havebecome the center, the center
(03:02):
that is, you know, jesus is thecenter, should be the center of
our life, our theology, ourhomes, our congregations and his
missional heart.
He came to seek and to save thelost in the world, for God so
loved the world that now he,that missional effort, theology,
(03:23):
concentration, purpose isreally the center of why we are
here, and so we just lovechanging our name to the Center,
keeping justification by grace,through faith, as its doctrinal
center, but also purposing thatwith reaching out to the lost
in the world.
Oh, I love it.
(03:43):
Yeah.
So that love it, yeah.
So that's why it's becoming thecenter and it's the centerinfo
T-H-E-C-E-N-T-E-Rinfo, and thankyou so much for asking.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's good.
So how is the Concordia Marketnow?
Because you had another kind ofventure.
How is that interacting withthe center?
Does someone just go tothecenterinfo to hear more about
Concordia Market?
How's that work?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
David Sure, concordia Market was a major part of why
the platform now the centerreally came into being, and that
is that so many missionalministries have started over the
last 15 years.
And, quite frankly, as I gotaround the country, it was
interesting to see how manyministries were started in
(04:26):
different places, differentregions of the United States
that had no idea that somethingsimilar had started somewhere
else in the United States, andthey might have even been
serving in the same way in theircommunities or even overseas.
So putting people together,that's the collaboration
emphasis of the center, or MPP.
(04:46):
Pooling resources, that is notjust finances, but also, or
probably especially, what haveyou done to reach the loss where
you are at?
That could be shared.
Or maybe you had a missionalBible class or a sermon series
or a woman's Bible class orsmall group that you use once,
(05:08):
you write it up and then it'snever used again.
Well, why not share it or whynot sell it?
That's up to you and you canmake that determination for how
you want Concordia Market towork for you.
So tons of resources there, tim.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
How is Concordia Market and now kind of the
centerinfo?
How is this connected to bestpractices?
A lot of people, and I wouldsay across the spectrum of Synod
, have looked at best practices.
It's a great gathering place.
There's obviously a lot ofwonderful speakers.
It's a great opportunity toconnect with friends.
It feels like to me that yourintention is Concordia Market is
what best practices is betweenFebruary, between our gatherings
(05:45):
, so that we can hear all thedifferent stories of God at work
in the world.
I don't know if you've thoughtabout it that way, but that's
kind of how I kind of positionConcordia Market.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I honestly have to say I have not thought about it
that way.
First of all, best practicesand ministry and Pastor Jeff
Schrank and Christ ChurchLutheran there in Phoenix just
amazing, you know started theway it did.
People have come together.
It's what I would picture, thatI would desire a synodical
convention to look like Peoplesharing, listening, telling
(06:16):
stories, encouraging, sometimescrying together, but always
gathered around that word.
I think what's been done thereis amazing.
So you're probably right, thecenter carries on.
I think it's more missionfocused than just ministry
mission focused.
But I would love to become thatbetween February gathering
(06:38):
place for people that want toencourage one another, sharing
of resources and collaborating,working together for the honor
of the Lord, as we to carry onhis ministry, his heart's desire
just to seek and to save thelost.
The gospel still works.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Hey, yeah, you mentioned Synod Convention and
I'm curious your thoughts.
I don't know that it couldentirely become like what best
practice is because we have todo what the work of the church
through you know resolutions andelections and things of that
nature.
So you can't have entirely thatvibe, but I would love for
(07:19):
there to be, and I've been tothe last three.
I think there are pockets wherewe're trying to tell stories at
Synod Convention of God at workin the world.
But I don't know that thespirit probably because of the
political nature of all theresolutions and different
candidates running for differentpositions the spirit is just
different.
There's more competition andsides there rather than maybe a
(07:43):
listening and learning postureor any kind of any kind of,
because you've been to many ofthem as well.
If you could pick two or threekind of things that could change
the culture of the SynodConvention, maybe toward more
openness and joy, any kind ofthings right off the top of your
head.
I hadn't given you thatquestion, but you brought up
convention.
I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, that's a fascinating question, Tim, and
I'm fine with anything.
You know what could change theculture of conventions?
I, I, that's a.
That's a tough question becauseI think so much of what we've
become, certainly in the lastmaybe decades, or last decade
especially it seems to be veryinsular, very centralized, very
(08:27):
let's look at ourselves very andI hope I can say this
appropriately very authoritative, very power-minded.
And if you look back here I'lljust say this if you look back
at resolutions where, if thegospel is powerful, powerful and
if the gospel still works, andif we have been blessed by
(08:51):
ourselves and we are to reachnow Jesus first sermon is salt
in the world and light in theworld.
Where have our resolutionsconcentrated on?
That's not been it.
It's insular, it's.
It's seemingly power orientated.
That's not been it.
It's insular, it's seeminglypower-orientated.
It's looking inside.
It's not focused, as God wouldlift up our eyes, as Jesus said,
(09:14):
to see the harvest that is ripe.
It's ripe.
And he is looking for workers,and that's not just PCWs,
professional church workers, itis all of our members.
You know, if you look at Exodus19, I mean, this is part of the
Old Testament too.
God had a very special nationthat he had chosen to be a
(09:38):
nation of priests.
All of them were all of them,not just the Levites.
And as priests you know youintercede for you, you are the
go-between in many regardsbetween the people and God.
And they were priests for thenations.
You know, when you go get toSolomon's building of the temple
and that incredible prayerthere, he wants it blessed as a
(10:01):
house of prayer for all nations,Something that Jesus even
quoted, you know, in thecleansing of the temple and in
the Passion Week.
So if more focus there, I thinka true repentance on our part on
how we again seemingly justjudge other people or what
(10:22):
they're doing and don't try andhave the glasses of a missional
God that loves all people andrecognize that they're with this
great gifts of the Holy Spiritand great wisdom that God gives
to people.
There are many and unique andincredible ways that the gospel
is being used, demonstrated,administered to reach people
(10:45):
that don't know the Lord and,quite frankly, if people would
get more involved with that, Ithink we'd see, I would hope we
would see political powerdiminishing, that there would
honestly be a search for thebest of the best, those that are
mission-minded, a heart likeunto God's, like it was said, of
(11:05):
King David, and someone thatwould just have as a
concentration and a foundationthat God so loved the world that
he gave Jesus.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Have you seen, because you're, you're, I'm not
trying to date you here.
Have you seen, because you're,I'm not trying to date you here,
david, but you remember thetime when we had the Great
Commission convocations for aseason in the 80s.
My dad remembers thosegatherings too and, man, he
would come back so fired up, notjust about I mean, yes, about
the mission, but about being apart of a church body.
That was about the mission.
(11:41):
There's been a shift over theyears and it's never this is not
again against PresidentHarrison et cetera there's been
a cultural shift that's occurred.
My take and I've had manyconversations right my take is
that as the culture has gone asecular you know, we were pagan,
et cetera that the reactiveresponse collectively in our
(12:04):
synod has been fear andprotection rather than mission
and execution toward thatmission with arms wide open.
And you just go back to thefirst century.
Jesus has entered into a culturethat's very, very anxious and
fearful about losing theirtraditions, losing their ability
(12:25):
to practice their worshipbecause they don't curry enough
favor with the Romans.
We're right on the series rightnow with Herod.
Herod, the great Herod is likeright in the middle We'll take
whatever you can give to us,herod, if you protect our
traditions.
Hey, thanks for the awesometemple, by the way.
And because of that fear, thatfear is what propelled them to
obviously crucify the son of God.
(12:46):
Praise be to God, it was all apart of his plan, but I feel
like we're living with that sortof fear today.
That's shaping the way weaddress, maybe, creative ideas,
those of us that may be on themissional fringe and I don't shy
away from saying that I want tobe whatever.
It is short of sin to reachpeople with the gospel.
That's what we need to be aboutand our theology propels us
(13:08):
toward that end.
But I think there's been ashift over the last maybe three
to four decades and I'd love toget your take on how that has
happened, david.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Wow, how is looking at the hearts of people?
And I certainly can't do that.
I think fear, however, is a bigpart of it, and you can sense
that.
Is culture changing?
Has culture become more open tosin and thinking it's right and
speaking well of sin?
Well, I think the Bibleactually tells us that.
(13:36):
Read Romans 1, 18 and following.
I believe, and you just know,this is going to happen, but the
church never shied away.
I'm almost wondering that,under the guise of you know pure
theology, and I say, guys, Idon't want that to be judgmental
because I don't know what themotivations are, but the Bible
(13:58):
has never needed defense.
God has never needed to bedefended, as if he couldn't
handle it.
But he does raise us up to belights to the world, to be a
witness to the world.
And when you just startconcentrating inside and are not
(14:19):
looking at the power of thegospel to take outside of the
church walls to reach the world,it's interesting what happens.
Tim, I heard a story once and Ican't remember the author.
It was about springtime, it wasa spring snowstorm.
They had gone, he and hisfather and his other uncle and
(14:40):
his son.
The two boys were the same age,went to I think it was Northern
Texas spring snowstorm came andthey couldn't get out to fish.
The first day that was fine,they stayed in the camper,
played cards all day.
But you know, after a whilethat gets a little rough.
And the next day went outsnowing worse and icing water
had even iced over a little bit.
(15:01):
They went back inside and hesaid it was interesting what
happened.
They just started picking ateach other and it was getting
really uncomfortable and by thenext day they just packed up and
he said here's the moral of thestory for me, when you don't
fish, you fight.
When we're not out fishing,that is for the lost.
(15:23):
You can think of the greatharvest of fish a couple of
times in the Bible.
They're really at the beginningof Jesus' ministry and at the
end, what do you do?
You fight.
And I honestly think thatcarrying out the mission of God,
the missio Dei, has asanctifying and purifying effect
on the church, where itactually would help us and bless
(15:46):
us as we take out the word.
Tim, if I could say one morestory, because I can hear and
I've had those questions aboutwell, then, you're just going to
compromise everything and I,like what you said earlier, do
everything short of sin.
I get it.
Amen.
And it's really from our firstpresident of the Missouri Synod.
(16:07):
Cfw Walther and he is one thatyou know addressed the first
synodical conference andapparently there were
difficulties going on there too.
Or you know people picking onone another or whatever it might
have been, and he says brothers, pure doctrine, pure doctrine,
(16:28):
pure doctrine.
People always ask me aboutwhat's so important about pure
doctrine.
And then he said that's likesaying to the farmer good seed,
good seed, good seed, what goodis good seed?
Well, it's a very reasonablething to understand that.
What he was saying was ofcourse you want the best seed,
it brings the best harvest.
(16:48):
Of course you want to maintainpure doctrine.
No one has ever asked us tocompromise that.
But let's take it, know it sowell, be motivated and led by
the Spirit that we can share it,proclaim it, be the lights in
the world that God wants us tobe and let the Holy Spirit have
the harvest.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Amen.
So you bring up a question.
You know that God doesn't needdefense, that the scripture
doesn't necessarily bringdefense, and I can hear people
saying well, what about 1 Peter,3, verse 15 and 16?
But in your hearts, honorChrist, the Lord as holy, always
being prepared to make adefense to anyone he asks for
the reason, for the hope that isin you.
Yeah, do a gentlest respectinto the good conscience so that
(17:29):
when those that malign you, uh,or slander you, those who
revile your good behavior inchrist, maybe put to put to
shame, what would you say to abrother says obviously the
gospel needs defense.
Peter peter says so plainly inscripture.
What do you say there, david?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Always be ready to make a defense, that is, know
why you believe what you believe.
Hold the word out there and Ithink you're defending yourself
by what you are saying or bywhat you have done.
And please note that this isout there, the way it looks in
the world.
It's not just the let's gatherin a church.
I'm going to defend myselfMaybe rarely, that would be
(18:06):
needed but you're out theresharing why you're defending
that, why you're proclaiming thegospel, defending that against
the world, so that if they comeafter us and, by the way, this
leads to fear, I'm going to getto that If they come after us,
we have a good conscience.
The church sees us, our Lordsees us.
We need fear nothing becauseGod's got us.
(18:29):
We are in his hand.
And here's what I think we fear,tim, tim Ferriss.
We have enjoyed comfort.
We have enjoyed a very, at onetime, a pretty receptive culture
to Christianity.
This dramatically changed.
We still think we live in thatera at times, but we fear what
(18:54):
happens if we share the truthand we're persecuted.
What happens if we share thetruth and people condemn us or
put us down or so forth?
Fine, our name is written inheaven.
What if we're martyred.
Oh, my goodness, look atprevious centuries and brothers
and sisters in Christ in thiscentury that have given their
life for the word of God.
Let us not fear men, let usfear the Lord, god, and let us
(19:19):
be about his mission, for whichwe will be held accountable.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, amen.
And have you seen the movieBonhoeffer, by the way?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I have not, and actually it's on our winter
snowed in list, so maybe it's atonight watch.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's really really well done.
We had about 150 people thatpacked a feeder in our
congregation this past Sunday totake it in and yeah, it was
really really well done.
And I just think of the courageof Bonhoeffer standing for the
gospel of Jesus, notcompromising.
(19:53):
You could make a case likedefending the truth of scripture
, defending the centrality ofChrist crucified, but doing so
against the powers that be,namely the church.
So where the church is in error, like we need voices from
within, inside, like kindadjutants, kind friends, those
(20:16):
that come along and say, hey,maybe our eyes are off.
The main thing, and the mainthing has always been to make
disciples, who make disciples.
So the multiplication of themessage of the word of Christ,
that when we gather for word andsacrament, why are we gathering
?
Yes, to be comforted by theword of God.
Yes, to be reminded our sinsare forgiven and we eat and
drink and taste that the Lord isgood, he's for me.
(20:38):
But we're there and I say thisway more often we are there to
mobilize missionaries in all oftheir respective vocations to
share the message of thecrucified and risen Jesus.
That's why we gather tomobilize the baptized for love
and good deeds, if anythingother than that, your holy
huddle like that's not the.
That's never been the primaryfocus of the divine service.
(20:59):
The divine service is meant tomobilize us, to remind us who we
are in our baptism and to sendus with the presence of God in
the blessing.
This goes back to Numbers,chapter six.
This is a presence of God whichgoes before you and leads.
You're sent, you're sent, itleads.
So, yeah, we've just been andI've said this publicly we've
just, over time, becomeimbalanced.
We need the office of holyministry, but we're there to
(21:22):
mobilize, to equip.
Obviously, the apostle Paul isvery eager to do this in
Ephesians, chapter four, toequip the saints for love and
good deeds.
We got all these differenttitles and things.
All well and good, but don'tforget your primary focus, which
is mobilizing the saints to intheir various vocations from
their home.
Yes, yes, let's focus ontraining up the next generation
in our home.
(21:43):
There's a big movement havemore kids.
It's great, let's have morekids and train up the next
generation in the way theyshould go.
But don't, don't make the endresult, just like here for us,
protective.
No, no, no.
The end result is the missionof God to send and propel the
saints for love and good deedsto be light and salt in a dark
and dying world, to carry thelight and love of Christ.
(22:03):
This is to go back to thedefense.
To go back to the defense,brother, always be prepared to
make a defense for anyone whoasks out in the world, the
Gentile, the pagan, the lost,for a reason, for the hope that
you have.
Every time the apostle Paultalks about hope, it's centered
in the hope of the resurrection.
So this is his call.
The defense is not protective.
The defense is actually open,open to the world, open to those
(22:24):
who don't know the gospel ofJesus.
So I pray for that day to getback to that place, as and I
think there's a lot of room, alot of room here you may have a
different approach as it relatesto the liturgy.
God bless you, you know but,don't forget the main, and
that's, that's contextual,that's cultural for you, it
works for you.
But don't forget the main thing, which is mobilizing the saints
(22:45):
for love and good deeds.
I'm off my little rant there,david.
Anything to land that planethere, brother.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
No, I would tell.
I just say this to you, tim,thank you, I would say amen.
And if can you imagine if wecould regain that, that
forethought, if we could regainthat target of reaching the lost
, how I believe, how it wouldpull us together.
Yes, you need good seed, yes,you need good doctrine, but what
does your context require?
(23:10):
I am in culture.
I am thinking of when I wasdistrict president, tim, and
getting to know Detroit a bitand I love those congregations
and those men that are there.
I was blown away.
I was a mission pastor in a veryrural area, marlette, michigan.
Then I became a youth pastor.
So it's kind of you just servethe kids in your school, kids in
(23:31):
the public school.
We had seven different highschools so I got in the world a
bit.
There.
You know being at their gamesand their events and getting to
know them or cafeteria time orwhatever.
And then know being at theirgames and their events and
getting to know them orcafeteria time or whatever, and
then becoming the senior pastorat Our Savior.
You're kind of you get a little.
You can see I'm almost becomingmore church focused as you go
along.
But you also have to make adetermined decision that I have
(23:56):
to talk about and I have toshare that we are here, as you
said, to reach the lost.
That's really what we're about,and how are we doing?
How can we accomplish that?
And I am thankful that Ialready always had leaders
around me that would emphasizethat.
So we have left that Landingthe plane is.
(24:16):
Let's get back to thatcentrality, that focus.
Let's encourage one another inthat regard and that is what the
center is all about.
Let's keep Jesus, his word, histeachings, his gospel seed and
reaching the lost as the center,and let God do the rest.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
So so, listener, if you're wondering what would be a
tangible next step for me in inworship, I've done it a couple,
three times recently, andsometimes people get
uncomfortable when you havepeople stand up in church, but
this last Sunday there wereprobably we had I don't know how
many, 800, something like thatin worship and probably about
(24:53):
200 adults in various vocationsstood up during the close of my
message and and I commissionedthem as missionaries in the
marketplace.
Wow, and and they there wasthis like wow, this standing up,
like I know who.
I go out carrying the gospel ofJesus and not just in how I
(25:14):
live, how I treat people.
To be sure, we're going totreat people.
We have a different characterthe way we engage the
marketplace.
But, as the Lord givesopportunity, I want to tell
people about the hope that Ihave, Do so with gentleness and
respect, but I want to talkabout Jesus.
I'm going to pray foropportunities to talk about
Jesus and I think there's many,many women and male leaders in
our church out in themarketplace that are waiting to
(25:37):
receive that permission fromtheir pastor.
Go, go, go.
I am sending you Any thoughtsthere, David?
I hope I didn't.
I mean, it was just acommissioning and I'll do it
every single day.
Actually, every day when youwake up, you're commissioned,
through your baptism, to carrythe message of Christ out into
the world.
But sometimes we need leadersto just kind of stand up and
give that sort of permission.
Pastor says I can go talk aboutJesus.
Yes, please do so.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Go ahead, david.
I would say amen again.
Tim, thank you for doing that,and that's a very visible thing
to do.
That reminds the people thatwere present and, I believe, our
listeners now too, that throughour baptisms we were joined to
Christ.
Christ lives in us.
It's no longer I who live, butnow Christ who lives in me.
Or you go to Roman sixbaptismal theology in Christo
(26:20):
and Christo, we are in Christ.
Christ is in us and he came toseek and to save the lost.
He's given that, that, thatcommissioning to us and to all
of our members, and for them tohear that, know that, be
reminded of that, encouraged inthat, what a blessing.
And to make that visible inthat, what a blessing.
And to make that visible.
(26:41):
So, getting back to your youknow the Peter passage always be
ready to give a reason for thehope.
So would people know thatyou're hopeful, yeah, or are you
just hiding?
Are you scared?
Are you fearful?
Do you stand out?
Why do you stand out?
It's only when you stand outthat you might actually have to
give a defense, criticize forsomething you say.
(27:02):
Do believe how you act, andit's also what people will see
if you're living hope and if youare living hope because you
have living hope, as Peter says,first chapter, there, man, that
looks different.
And how excited people will beto ask you, because that is not
what the world has to give, boom.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Let's go All right.
Let's do the proverbial pivot.
You were a district presidentfor 13, 13 years plus one.
What was the best and worst,the hardest part of being a
district president?
Get us behind the curtain therea little bit, David hardest
part of being a districtpresident.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Get us behind the curtain there a little bit,
david.
First of all, I would sayworking at the parish level
truly is.
My father would say that iswhere the rubber hits the road.
That is it.
That is the best of the best.
And if you do anything else inthe church he became a professor
at one of our seminaries and hewas a vice president and Senate
and the like If you do anythingdifferent, it has to be because
(28:04):
you believe that you can helpthat message of the gospel and
the office that the word isgetting out there.
So, having said that, I wouldsay I found working at the
district office with the qualityof people that were there or
the team I was allowed to puttogether of looking for the very
(28:25):
best that had a similar visionlike that.
We want to support gospeloutreach.
That was absolutely the best.
In Michigan we have a MichiganChurch Extension Fund and they
are an amazing group of peoplethat support gospel outreach and
that's how they really blessall of our congregations and we
(28:45):
were certainly blessed by that.
I had incredible vicepresidents for all 13 years.
These were not yes-men guys.
They were elected by theregions and then nominated by
the regions and then elected bythe conventions, and then
nominated by the regions andthen elected by the conventions.
And these were men thatchallenged what I would say.
I was very open with them, Ishared how I was doing ministry
(29:06):
and why and what our goals werefor that six months or a year or
two years or five years.
And they would say what's goingon here?
Or I would bring something elsein and say are you leaving some
of your goals here?
But they would challengechallenge else in and say are
you leaving, like some of yourgoals here, but they would
challenge challenge.
And once they understood theywould not, they would certainly
(29:29):
change me or I could help formthem.
And then we went together insomething that was mutually
agreed upon.
Benefit they're great men,circuit visitors, unbelievable
men, I would say.
Getting to know the leaders atConcordia University and Arbor
what an absolute blessing theykicked out was.
They were stunning.
You know we had a growinguniversity with President Ferry
(29:49):
and CFO Al Prochnow.
Of course, now it's being soldor reimagined.
That's just hard, I would say.
Getting to know other districtpresidents Tim on the council
was amazing and there's acamaraderie that's there because
there are 34 other men therethat know what you're going
(30:11):
through, and that's a good thing.
So I would say that was all ofthose things were the best.
Did you say worse too?
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, yeah, there are .
There are hard things.
I mean the fires you have toput out, the, the discipline or
removal, I would imagine, ofvarious leaders.
I mean, how hard are thosethings?
And my take in just kind ofwatching, observing the way
district presidents function,just kind of watching observing
the way district presidentsfunction.
You've got to be intentionalabout vision and shaping the
(30:48):
culture of your district towardmission, because you could
easily just like a pastor, could, you could easily become just
reactive toward the squeakywheel or toward this or that.
How did you kind of set up, Iguess, a team of people to
support you in the putting outof fires?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Tell that story a little bit, david so you're
right, things can become adistraction, and so having vice
presidents that I said that werecentered in the word these
regions nominated great men Idid use them to help me with
fires.
Sometimes there was aninvestigation or I would say,
(31:22):
just kind of seeking of thetruth.
What is going on?
And I think for all of us, acontinual emphasis on prayer
that we do not know at all.
We do not know at all.
And we, why did God encourageus to pray and why?
Why did he give us the Lord'sprayer?
It was so that we would ifJesus bowed before the Father as
(31:45):
the God-man.
Maybe we should think aboutdoing that more often too, and
seeking God and not only askinghim to bless what we are doing,
but asking him to lead us to dowhat he wants to bless.
And so, you know, having vicepresidents that knew that focus
but had to deal with some ofthese issues, sometimes circuit
(32:07):
visitors also what an justincredible blessing that allowed
us to maintain some type offocus of holding up the gospel.
And I would also say and I'mgoing to mention the name here
of holding up the gospel, and Iwould also say and I'm going to
mention the name here, I got toknow Bill Woolsey through some
(32:27):
of the events that he wouldsponsor and I just found a man
of God that I could respect andlove and appreciated the
speakers that he would bring in,and so I just asked him if he
would come and spend some timewith us as a district.
I just asked him if he wouldcome and spend some time with us
as a district and we went tokind of a three year plan more
(33:05):
or less and looked at what hecould do to help all of our
congregations think about takingthe gospel that does not change
and having it go out so that itcan change forever lives.
And I'm just grateful foreveryone that God has surrounded
me with and helped me to get toknow that I can work within
ministry, and all the peopleI've mentioned are those people.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Amen.
Well, bill Woolsey, good friend, a decent golfer.
A decent golfer, bill, I loveyou.
And no, an amazing, amazingministry heart.
He's very competitive.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It is competitive nature.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Oh, my goodness, to the next, to the next level.
But love you, bill, and proudof all that the Lord has done
through 5-2 to be sure.
So, back in 2018 into 19,.
David, you were put forward bya number of folks to potentially
be Synod president.
What did you learn during thatjourney, David?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Oh, man, brother, a lot I would have to say a lot,
lot, and I'm going to borrowmaybe from some of the things
that I said, even about thedistrict, the people I got to
meet, the, the congregations,all of which are the bride of
christ, all different, allbeautiful to the lord, but man,
they are all.
They're different, differentsizes, and and not just the
(34:16):
buildings, I'm the people.
I mean it's just amazing.
Uh, they're all precious ingod's sight.
And so getting to meet people Inever thought I and not just
the buildings, the people, Imean it's just amazing, they're
all precious in God's sight.
And so getting to meet people Inever thought I would meet was
absolutely an incredibleblessing.
Often I got to speak at districtconventions as an essay so I
could share some thoughts and, Ithink, missional understanding
(34:36):
and I appreciate comments thereGetting to know the pastors, if
I was given time, I was amazedhow often they would say hey,
can we talk to you?
There's a group of us, sure,and they would ask questions and
I could ask them hey, what areyour dreams, what are your
doubts and what are you lookingfor in a president?
All of that was humbling.
We have such good people, timthat serve in the office and I
(35:00):
was blown away by that.
So I would say those were thereally positive things about
running for or letting my Idon't like running, letting my
name stand for a synodicalpresident.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Well, grateful, grateful you did, and I'm just
as I look at you and many, manyleaders like you.
Thank you for staying engagedin the mission, thank you for
staying engaged in the life ofthe church.
Things have changed, though inthe local church.
In the last gosh it's been 14,15 years or so since you were
(35:35):
kind of in the parish, since youleft, and you still have a good
kind of macro view because ofyour time as a district
president and now withthecenterinfo, the center shout
out.
Since you left the parish, whatdo you think has changed the
most in just local parishministry in the last 15 years?
David?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So first, you're right, I've been out of it for
13 years, been grateful to servelocally here at Our Savior in
Benzonia, sometimes at Trinityin Arcadia and that's still a
blessing.
So I'm doing that actually moreoften than when I was beginning
to learn in the parish before Iwas elected district president
(36:22):
was how much context for ourcongregations is changing a
culture and I'm not just talking, the world is changing and look
how dark it's getting, whateverit is, but then the gospel
shines brighter.
But that each individualcongregation is different.
My mission church and we're allmissionaries, tim, yes, my
(36:46):
mission church, as it wasdesignated, in Marlette,
completely different than when Iwent to I think at that time it
was the second or third largestchurch in the Synod, st Peter,
ernington Heights, and served asyouth pastor and what a shock.
It had more than one stoplight,that whole area.
It's a northern suburb ofChicago.
But then just to see whattensions and pressures the kids
(37:09):
were facing and their parentsand the congregation was
fascinating.
And then as district president,to know each congregation is
different, so that even thoughthere's a congregation at the
very tip of Northern Michiganthat is serving 200 people and
there's a church in SoutheastMichigan, detroit or Southwest
(37:31):
Michigan, benton Harbor, maybe200 also.
All three of them are servingin such diverse circumstances.
Their ministries not only lookdifferent, I almost want to say
they had to be different.
If they're in tune with theLord and listening to their
people and praying to the HolySpirit, god leads his people.
This is Jesus.
(37:52):
My sheep hear my voice and theyfollow me and I give unto them
eternal life and no one cansnatch them out of my hand.
But we're listening, we discernthe voice of the good shepherd,
the Savior Jesus, and follow.
And every church is different.
So that's what I saw, that'swhat I brought to people's
(38:13):
understanding.
I pray, I hope that there was amassive encouragement and not
judgment from the brothers foreveryone else in the district
and I think we had a phenomenalspirit of encouragement and, in
that regard, unity, goingforward and just respecting what
other people were doing in thecontext in which they were,
(38:37):
context in which they were.
I would also say, you know,just having people draw close to
the Lord and he says and I willdraw close to you, he will hear
our prayers and answer them andwe just have to be, we have to
follow that voice.
I think the LCMS, in manyregards, has been educated way
(39:03):
beyond the level of ourobedience to the word and we
really need to get back to thatyou know, if I can say something
to Tim in that regard.
Yes, you can.
That's kind of why I like the S, that's why I do like and love
the SMP program and I wishsomehow that it could expand,
because men are raised up incontext and they know what
(39:27):
ministry is like from ministryone, from minute one.
They're not just trained for aideal church of 200 where
there's no financial problems,everybody loves the pastor and
can't wait to volunteer, and soyou know, I don't know that that
church exists, I think incontext in context.
(39:48):
They're raised up, so they knowwhat they're getting into.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
People have recognized their spiritual chops
, so to speak, and that's why Ithink that program is really,
quite frankly, invaluable, Iagree, and I think it can get
better and I think our SMPpastors can get a degree and I
think raising up contextualleaders.
I'm resisting the urge to godown that path right now.
David, that's not this podcast,but I think, maybe another time
(40:15):
, a lot of time.
But yeah, I think we can elevatethe need for robust,
theologically trained we don'tcompromise on the truths of who
we are and how we've beentrained and we can do it
virtually for the sake ofraising up contextual leaders
very, very well.
And I believe if we do that,residential only increases
(40:37):
Residential only increases Ifthe brand of seminary education
is more open.
Seminary residential educationincreases.
I've said it publicly many,many times and I every time.
So, let me, let me bring ithome toward this.
I said I wasn't going to dothis.
Now I'm doing it, but everytime and any kind of seminary
(40:58):
leader you need to uh, I'minviting you and not not you
need to, I'm inviting you tolisten to a guy who's in the
trenches of local ministry.
Every single time, I say yes toa new venture to reach people
with the gospel.
Our local ministry grows.
(41:18):
Every single time we it's likeGod is a God of abundance rather
than scarcity, David everysingle time we open up to the
new possibility to reach peoplewith the gospel, what we do
locally improves, and the sameprinciple will take place for a
theological formationconversation.
Our God is not a God ofnarrowing narrow, he's widening.
He's widening.
He wants more and more.
Yes, the God is not a God ofnarrowing narrow, he's widening.
(41:39):
He's widening.
He wants more and more.
Yes, the way is narrow, but wewant to widen the approach to
reaching more people with thegospel, and leaders are
necessary toward that, towardthat end.
So, synod leader, synodpresidents and and seminary
presidents, I would love tocontinue to have the
conversation toward that end andI know, David, you share the
same, the same heartbeat today.
(42:01):
We need to raise up moreleaders, local, and this will
not hurt residential.
It will only improve what we doresidentially.
So, David, anything more to addthere to land that plane.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
I'll tell you what, tim.
No, I appreciate your attitude.
God is not a God of scarcity,but of abundance.
People in Michigan would knowthat one of my favorite verses
is from Ephesians, chapter three.
God is able to do.
God is far more abundantly,immeasurably more than all we
ask or imagine.
According to his power that isat work, catch this within us
(42:35):
and in the church, and I thinkour problem and maybe because
you know we I want to be carefulhow I say this, because I don't
mean it to be a cultural, youknow, sting at all.
You know we're so German.
It's maybe it's hard to imagineand maybe it's hard to pray,
but I know more and more peopleare praying and taking God up on
(42:55):
his word and promises and toimagine what God can do, which
is what you do so well, tim.
May that be blessed and may ourchurch be blessed in the future
in that regard as well.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Hey, this has been so fun, david, I want to talk.
This is a leadership podcast,and healthy leaders raise up
other healthy leaders and createhealthy churches that are
mobilized for mission.
So what are your top fourcharacteristics of a healthy
pastoral leader, david?
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Okay, well, I appreciate that and you gave me
some insight that that might beasked.
I'm going to say there'sprobably a couple of these that
could tie into each other prettywell.
Absolutely, a mandate is thatthe individual have a strong
personal relationship with theLord, that he knows his God,
(43:45):
that he knows his word, that hehears him speak, that he can
discern the voice time in theword prayer.
I have to admit that early onin ministry, until I met some
pastors that loved me enough tocome alongside me and just
constructively criticize oradvise or encourage, you know,
(44:05):
prayer was a last thing, gosh,if there's time, I have too much
else to do, too many people tosee, and then you know, you're
reminded of Luther.
If you have so much more to doin a day, what do you do?
Well, I get up two hoursearlier to pray.
Do in a day, what do you do?
Well, I get up two hoursearlier to pray.
Now, I didn't do that, but Itried to consistently,
(44:28):
concentratedly, spend time inprayer.
Look at the day start on Sunday, map out some things for that
week, even to know how I wasgoing to pray, and realize that
when emergencies came, god knewabout them and he wasn't
surprised wasn't surprised byCOVID, by the way and that we
entrust ourselves to him andpray and that he's going to help
us get it done.
And where we think we fallshort, isn't it wonderful Now we
(44:51):
do fall short that the blood ofJesus Christ, god's son,
cleanses us from all sin.
So have to have a deep personalrelationship with the Lord.
I would even encouragejournaling to see answered
prayer and how God is working inyour life, your family's life,
your congregation.
I would say you have to have aphenomenal relationship with
your wife.
Now, I know that for some it'seasier.
(45:13):
You've been blessed with agreat wife, tim.
I've been blessed with aphenomenal wife, pat, and she is
a godly, quiet woman that hasendured so much and I cannot say
how grateful I am with her.
But to have a spiritualconnection with her, a social
connection with her, keep datingyour wife, certainly physical,
(45:35):
and certainly enjoy that.
That's wonderful Mentalconnection.
All of those are important and,by the way, that should also
take place with your family andthat's why I think vacations are
important.
And if you ask my kids, theyknew I was busy as a pastor and
they knew I loved them and Iwould try and take time and get
to their games and I know youcoached him.
(45:57):
God bless you and do as muchwith them as I possibly could.
But they also knew thatvacation time that was
concentrated family time.
I would say if you have sons,have them take out mom.
If you have daughters, takethem out on dates, let them know
what a Christian man is like,let the wife know what a
(46:17):
Christian woman is like, and Ijust think that's so critically
important.
So those intimate relationships, and then I would say, man,
have a great relationship withyour staff.
If you have a school, with yourteachers and the leadership of
the school and then with allyour professors and, quite
(46:38):
frankly, with people in yourcommunity accident and please
hear that this is a confession.
I knew the principals in manyof the locations of my
congregations that I served.
I knew, in a couple of cases,detectives and heads of police
(46:58):
departments and fire departments, because they were members or
good friends or they came to anevent.
I think pastors now need to bemore deliberate in getting to
know community leaders so thatsomething does happen.
Community leaders know who theywant to turn to and why.
And there you go, tim always beready to give a reason for the
hope that you have and to sharethat and to be invited to do
(47:21):
that as well, and sometimesyou'll be criticized.
You have, and to share that andto be invited to do that as
well, and sometimes you'll becriticized, but be invited to do
so as well.
And I think we will also bedefended as we are coming to
bring hope, which everyone inthis world needs.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So, yeah, that's a great summary.
So, prayer, deep dependence onprayer, prayer without ceasing.
You got to be in rightrelationship with your spouse
and your kids If we miss on ourprimary vocations as a leader
man, we miss on absolutelyeverything.
And how does Satan seek to takedown many leaders?
It's when we don't have thatsolid relationship with those
(47:56):
who are closest to us and we'renot living in accountability.
I don't want to be another statof a pastor that fell off with
some sort of immoral breakdownbecause I didn't pursue my, my
wife Uh, that that would be theworst thing.
And she, I love, I love it.
She's a kind adversary to me,right?
She, she's like Tim, you're notyou're not that big a deal.
(48:18):
You're like.
You're like who cares about youLike just mind your, mind your
position.
Alexa is really great forletting me know.
She's an encourager, for sure,but I got plenty of
encouragement around me.
I need someone who keeps megrounded, and that's my wife.
She's amazing.
And then to have, I think, outof that relationship that's how
(48:39):
you kind of enter into thenrelationship with leaders in
your church and leaders in thecommunity, with a right
perspective.
I'm just one leader amonghundreds and thousands.
Then the Lord can work, with orwithout me.
I'm grateful he's working inthe small little corner of his
kingdom with me.
But mind your role and do notthink you're too big for
discipline, because disciplinecomes from the kind adversary
(49:03):
which is the Holy Spirit wholives in my wife and sounds a
lot like Alexa Allman.
Praise be to God, david, whatdo you?
Speaker 3 (49:09):
want to say there Amen.
I love that term, kind,adversary.
I would have to say that Pat iscertainly one of the kindest
women I know.
I love that you said adversary,because that's kind of that
check and balance deal and Pathas been that all my life.
Kind enough to say do you thinkthat went through?
I don't think so.
Or just find something elsethat she might just call me at
(49:33):
attention to, Like you say youlove your children, but I don't
think you've been around thelast month.
What do you think about this?
And it's like ooh, good call.
I know you've been sayingsomething and now you made it
really plain.
Thank you.
She was the one to be consultedIf I let my name stand to be
considered for districtpresident.
She was the one to be consultedto let your name stand for
(49:55):
synodical president.
And man, your wife is going tobe intimately involved in
whatever you do.
And the Lord makes it plainhave your household, you know,
make it an example and ademonstration of love and grace
and have a kind opponent there.
I like that A kind adversary.
(50:16):
God bless that.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah, it is.
This is kind of funny, to me atleast.
We have this video that justcame out and when this podcast
gets released, it's been out forsome time now, but it was
called the Church Office and itwas this little spoofy thing we
put together for a district allworkers conference and a lot of
people thought it was funny atthe district conference and so
(50:38):
we released it on YouTube andover the course of like four or
five days days it had like20,000 views or something like
that on on YouTube and I told,but yeah, whatever, I told my
wife that you know, hey, honey,this is kind of going viral and
she's like that's not even closeto viral.
Tim, I'm sorry, but it's a goodtry.
She's seen viral stuff.
That happens and I'm like okay,it's LCMS viral honey, I don't
(51:01):
know.
Anyway, so silly, we had somuch fun with you.
David, thank you for being afriend and a partner in the
gospel.
If you have one or a few wordsof prayer and it is a prayer
what are your biggest prayersfor the LCMS?
Where do you look at us and yousay we need to grow in this
(51:21):
Jesus direction?
We'll land this conversationthere, wow.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
The church is made up of sinners, congregations, the
church in general, ourdenomination, and if it weren't
so, we shouldn't be here.
Christ Jesus came to give uslife for and the gospel is meant
for all sinners.
So we've got to be thankful forthe gospel and hold that up.
What I'm really concerned about, and what I hear from my
(51:49):
children even, is that you know,when there's so many
distractions in the church, poppeople don't see Jesus.
They see churches on eachother's case or they're arguing
about this or fighting aboutthat.
Quite frankly, tim, they wouldchallenge me in high school and
bring friends over and I wouldlearn about them later, these
friends, just to see how wewould react and respond.
(52:11):
Or they would tell me ahead oftime they want to see how we'd
react and respond and I thinkthey always I know they always
appreciated a genuine living outof the gospel.
I was not perfect Maybe my wifeis, but I was not perfect by
any means and they'll remind meof that too.
But when I think about that,what was necessary in the family
?
I think what is necessary inthe church, and that's humility,
(52:34):
and I don't see a lot of it inour church denomination.
We need humility, we need toknow that we are all sinners,
that we stand before a righteousGod.
In whatever office that Godplaces us, we're going to be
held accountable, and that Godhas a desire to bless us, but he
also wants us to draw close tohim through humility.
I would say.
(52:54):
Repentance, tim.
A question I received once waslike what would you do as a
nautical president?
What would you do as asynodical president?
And then even there was a lotof bad diversity, judgmentalism,
arguments.
I said I would love for ourdistricts to hold a service of
(53:20):
repentance, that we could repentof whatever we have done to
contribute to chaos in thechurch, or power hungriness in
the church or judgmental.
We need to repent.
We need to learn how to relateto one another.
So I think speaking the truthand love is also a critical
component.
I'm not saying forget If yousee someone doing wrong.
If we love our brother, we dohave a responsibility.
(53:41):
I'll throw in here, not acrossdistrict lines, for God's sake,
just get to know your brothersand sisters in the area.
But if you see someone you knowwhat, draw attention to it and
speak to them first.
Always, in whatever you do,speak the truth of love.
I strove to do that when I wasa DP, even in the most severe
discipline issues.
(54:02):
And then finally, and I mightsay here, even most importantly,
we have to have a missionaltheology that is centered in
Christ, that is centered in themissio Dei, the mission of God
to seek and to save the lost.
That's why we're here, that'swhy Jesus came, that's why the
church continues, and that hasgot to be a priority.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
And I want to say, finally it is for the center.
Hey, there we go.
This has been awesome, david.
You're a gift to me and to thebody of Christ, and so, yeah,
this has been a joy If peoplewant to connect with you and
your ministry.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
How can they do so?
You know email david at thecenter T-H-E-C-E-N-T-E-R dot
info the center dot info.
You can go to the online site,which is the center dot info.
That's also the website.
Check out the resources thatare there.
You can go to Concordia Market,which is where we're collecting
(55:07):
the resources and having peopleencourage one another.
There's also God Works, whichis original content that we're
producing, and I know that theywould find something very
helpful there as well.
So let me give you my cellphone too, tim, and I'm fine
with you publishing that.
It's in the church directory aswell, or the synodical
directory, but 734-355-1973.
(55:28):
Finally, I would say we justfinished our first collaboration
at the end of October in AnnArbor, tim, I'd like to use this
opportunity to invite people toour next collaboration, which
is going to be at Risen Saviorin Chandler, arizona.
That's right next to PhoenixCommunity of and right before
(55:50):
Best Practices, and I would juststrongly encourage them to come
and to join us there.
We're going to be concentratingon again the mission of God and
the title.
This time is Now Knew More.
Now is the favorable time.
New sing to the Lord, a newsong, god saying behold, I'm
doing a new thing and more.
(56:10):
Of course.
We've already referred toEphesians 3.
God is able to do far moreabundantly.
Now Knew More.
Please come and join usFebruary 11 and 12.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
And people can get info of that at thecenterinfo.
Is that where they go to signup?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
Yes, a special site is going to be set up for that
collaboration.
They can find out moreinformation there and it's
called collaboration, so that wecan work together and encourage
one another.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Amen.
Come into Phoenix just a bitearly before BPM on February
13th through 15th.
Come to Now New More, february11 and 12 at Risen Savior in
Chandler, arizona.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
I'll be there and I like that.
You gave out your cell phone.
I actually gave out.
I was on a podcast called Onthe Line with Brian Stecker, a
(56:57):
young man who's leading up inthe Twin Cities area, and we had
a good time.
He asked me to give out my cell.
So I gave out my cell and I'mlike I don't know, can I reach
out or whatever.
I got like bump, I mean kind ofreasonably bombarded, like 10
different folks that listen tothe podcast this was just like
yesterday have actually text meand we're having interactions
(57:21):
and a couple of them were not.
You know they're not fans of meand what we do, but that's okay
, we're all.
We're all working it outtogether.
So I'll just say 303-887-0507,303-887-0507.
Text is appreciated and we canset up conversations toward the
Jesus end.
And, as always, if you want toget on this podcast, I would
prefer, because it takes a bitto schedule these.
(57:43):
I'd prefer if you sent me anemail If you've got a difference
of opinion and want to get onto share that opinion.
We'd love to have you, t Allman, at CGL Church, cglchurchorg.
So, david, you're a gift.
Thank you for this time.
This is Lead Time.
Sharon is Karen.
Like, subscribe, comment.
Wherever it is you take inthese podcasts, like us on
YouTube, if you've not done so.
(58:03):
That helps with the algorithmto get the message of love and
joy and peace and missionalinnovation for the sake of those
who do not know Jesus.
That's what we're to be aboutwhile it is day, for night is
approaching when no man or womanwill be able to work, and we
won't be about the master's workwhile it is day.
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day,wonderful, while it is day.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Wonderful.
Thanks, david.
God bless you.
Dear brother, thanks for allyou're doing.
You've been listening to LeadTime, a podcast of the Unite
Leadership Collective.
The ULC's mission is tocollaborate with the local
church to discover, develop anddeploy leaders through biblical
Lutheran doctrine and innovativemethods To partner with us in
this gospel message.
Subscribe to our channel, thengo to theuniteleadershiporg to
create your free login forexclusive material and resources
(58:47):
and then to explore ways inwhich you can sponsor an episode
.
Thanks for listening and staytuned for next week's episode.
This is Lead Time.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to Lead Time, tim Allman here.
Jack Calberg has the day off.
I pray the joy of Jesus is withyou today as I get to hang out
with one of my favorite leaderson planet Earth, reverend Dr
David Meyer.
And let me tell you a littlebit about David.
David has served in a number ofdifferent roles.
As a right out of school backin 82 to 84, he was a mission
(00:23):
pastor.
I'm going to put a little pinin that.
Guess what pastor?
Every pastor is a missionpastor, but there may have been
a title back in the day of amission pastor.
He was also a youth pastor for awhile at St Peter's Lutheran
Church in Arlington Heights.
That's quite a church.
In the Lutheran Church,missouri ascended from 84 to 89.
He was a lead pastor then at StPeter's for a little bit of
(00:45):
time and then he took a call.
Actually was 20 years as asenior pastor at Our Savior
Lutheran Church in Lansing,michigan, and then was the
district president for 13 years,with one extra year thrown in
for extra measure during COVID.
Thank you very much.
And after leaving the districtoffice there in Michigan, he's
now serving as executivedirector of Mission Partners
(01:07):
Platform, which a newannouncement is taking place
right now.
David, before we get to thatannouncement, how are you doing,
brother?
Thank you for hanging with metoday.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I appreciate it, tim, very complimentary of you, and
I'm honored to be on thispodcast.
You are a highly respectedindividual podcast.
You are a highly respectedindividual and the times that
I've been able to listen to youspeak and the time that I
worship with you at church havebeen blessings for myself.
I know my wife would say theexact same thing, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Hey, well, the honor and joy is mine.
This is so much fun.
I love doing these podcastsbecause you get to hang out with
friends and then make newfriends as well.
So give us the update onMission Partners Platform.
There's a change that's takingplace.
I'll let you do the honorsthere, David Sure.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Tim, if you don't mind, just a little history.
Mission Partners Platformreally was put together back in
I'm going to say 2016-ish, andthat was when people were just,
you know, coming off of aconvention and there was some
discouragement and it didn'tmatter really which side of the
aisle and they're probably oursides, that's no secret is that
(02:14):
there was no real emphasisplaced on any type of missional
outreach, missional outcomes,knowing that God loved the world
, that Jesus was sent for theworld, and so, you know, mission
Partners Platform then becameover the years, as these lay
people gathered and pastors andsome district presidents became
(02:39):
more formalized.
First it was Spiritual,theological, constitutional STC,
then it became Mission PartnersPlatform and it's growing.
And, you know, really in thelast two, three weeks after we
had our first collaboration,which is kind of our convocation
or even convention, we havebecome the center, the center
(03:02):
that is, you know, jesus is thecenter, should be the center of
our life, our theology, ourhomes, our congregations and his
missional heart.
He came to seek and to save thelost in the world, for God so
loved the world that now he,that missional effort, theology,
(03:23):
concentration, purpose isreally the center of why we are
here, and so we just lovechanging our name to the Center,
keeping justification by grace,through faith, as its doctrinal
center, but also purposing thatwith reaching out to the lost
in the world.
Oh, I love it.
(03:43):
Yeah.
So that love it, yeah.
So that's why it's becoming thecenter and it's the centerinfo
T-H-E-C-E-N-T-E-Rinfo, and thankyou so much for asking.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It's good.
So how is the Concordia Marketnow?
Because you had another kind ofventure.
How is that interacting withthe center?
Does someone just go tothecenterinfo to hear more about
Concordia Market?
How's that work?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
David Sure, concordia Market was a major part of why
the platform now the centerreally came into being, and that
is that so many missionalministries have started over the
last 15 years.
And, quite frankly, as I gotaround the country, it was
interesting to see how manyministries were started in
(04:26):
different places, differentregions of the United States
that had no idea that somethingsimilar had started somewhere
else in the United States, andthey might have even been
serving in the same way in theircommunities or even overseas.
So putting people together,that's the collaboration
emphasis of the center, or MPP.
(04:46):
Pooling resources, that is notjust finances, but also, or
probably especially, what haveyou done to reach the loss where
you are at?
That could be shared.
Or maybe you had a missionalBible class or a sermon series
or a woman's Bible class orsmall group that you use once,
(05:08):
you write it up and then it'snever used again.
Well, why not share it or whynot sell it?
That's up to you and you canmake that determination for how
you want Concordia Market towork for you.
So tons of resources there, tim.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
How is Concordia Market and now kind of the
centerinfo?
How is this connected to bestpractices?
A lot of people, and I wouldsay across the spectrum of Synod
, have looked at best practices.
It's a great gathering place.
There's obviously a lot ofwonderful speakers.
It's a great opportunity toconnect with friends.
It feels like to me that yourintention is Concordia Market is
what best practices is betweenFebruary, between our gatherings
(05:45):
, so that we can hear all thedifferent stories of God at work
in the world.
I don't know if you've thoughtabout it that way, but that's
kind of how I kind of positionConcordia Market.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
I honestly have to say I have not thought about it
that way.
First of all, best practicesand ministry and Pastor Jeff
Schrank and Christ ChurchLutheran there in Phoenix just
amazing, you know started theway it did.
People have come together.
It's what I would picture, thatI would desire a synodical
convention to look like Peoplesharing, listening, telling
(06:16):
stories, encouraging, sometimescrying together, but always
gathered around that word.
I think what's been done thereis amazing.
So you're probably right, thecenter carries on.
I think it's more missionfocused than just ministry
mission focused.
But I would love to become thatbetween February gathering
(06:38):
place for people that want toencourage one another, sharing
of resources and collaborating,working together for the honor
of the Lord, as we to carry onhis ministry, his heart's desire
just to seek and to save thelost.
The gospel still works.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Hey, yeah, you mentioned Synod Convention and
I'm curious your thoughts.
I don't know that it couldentirely become like what best
practice is because we have todo what the work of the church
through you know resolutions andelections and things of that
nature.
So you can't have entirely thatvibe, but I would love for
(07:19):
there to be, and I've been tothe last three.
I think there are pockets wherewe're trying to tell stories at
Synod Convention of God at workin the world.
But I don't know that thespirit probably because of the
political nature of all theresolutions and different
candidates running for differentpositions the spirit is just
different.
There's more competition andsides there rather than maybe a
(07:43):
listening and learning postureor any kind of any kind of,
because you've been to many ofthem as well.
If you could pick two or threekind of things that could change
the culture of the SynodConvention, maybe toward more
openness and joy, any kind ofthings right off the top of your
head.
I hadn't given you thatquestion, but you brought up
convention.
I'm just curious.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, that's a fascinating question, Tim, and
I'm fine with anything.
You know what could change theculture of conventions?
I, I, that's a.
That's a tough question becauseI think so much of what we've
become, certainly in the lastmaybe decades, or last decade
especially it seems to be veryinsular, very centralized, very
(08:27):
let's look at ourselves very andI hope I can say this
appropriately very authoritative, very power-minded.
And if you look back here I'lljust say this if you look back
at resolutions where, if thegospel is powerful, powerful and
if the gospel still works, andif we have been blessed by
(08:51):
ourselves and we are to reachnow Jesus first sermon is salt
in the world and light in theworld.
Where have our resolutionsconcentrated on?
That's not been it.
It's insular, it's.
It's seemingly power orientated.
That's not been it.
It's insular, it's seeminglypower-orientated.
It's looking inside.
It's not focused, as God wouldlift up our eyes, as Jesus said,
(09:14):
to see the harvest that is ripe.
It's ripe.
And he is looking for workers,and that's not just PCWs,
professional church workers, itis all of our members.
You know, if you look at Exodus19, I mean, this is part of the
Old Testament too.
God had a very special nationthat he had chosen to be a
(09:38):
nation of priests.
All of them were all of them,not just the Levites.
And as priests you know youintercede for you, you are the
go-between in many regardsbetween the people and God.
And they were priests for thenations.
You know, when you go get toSolomon's building of the temple
and that incredible prayerthere, he wants it blessed as a
(10:01):
house of prayer for all nations,Something that Jesus even
quoted, you know, in thecleansing of the temple and in
the Passion Week.
So if more focus there, I thinka true repentance on our part on
how we again seemingly justjudge other people or what
(10:22):
they're doing and don't try andhave the glasses of a missional
God that loves all people andrecognize that they're with this
great gifts of the Holy Spiritand great wisdom that God gives
to people.
There are many and unique andincredible ways that the gospel
is being used, demonstrated,administered to reach people
(10:45):
that don't know the Lord and,quite frankly, if people would
get more involved with that, Ithink we'd see, I would hope we
would see political powerdiminishing, that there would
honestly be a search for thebest of the best, those that are
mission-minded, a heart likeunto God's, like it was said, of
(11:05):
King David, and someone thatwould just have as a
concentration and a foundationthat God so loved the world that
he gave Jesus.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Have you seen, because you're, you're, I'm not
trying to date you here.
Have you seen, because you're,I'm not trying to date you here,
david, but you remember thetime when we had the Great
Commission convocations for aseason in the 80s.
My dad remembers thosegatherings too and, man, he
would come back so fired up, notjust about I mean, yes, about
the mission, but about being apart of a church body.
That was about the mission.
(11:41):
There's been a shift over theyears and it's never this is not
again against PresidentHarrison et cetera there's been
a cultural shift that's occurred.
My take and I've had manyconversations right my take is
that as the culture has gone asecular you know, we were pagan,
et cetera that the reactiveresponse collectively in our
(12:04):
synod has been fear andprotection rather than mission
and execution toward thatmission with arms wide open.
And you just go back to thefirst century.
Jesus has entered into a culturethat's very, very anxious and
fearful about losing theirtraditions, losing their ability
(12:25):
to practice their worshipbecause they don't curry enough
favor with the Romans.
We're right on the series rightnow with Herod.
Herod, the great Herod is likeright in the middle We'll take
whatever you can give to us,herod, if you protect our
traditions.
Hey, thanks for the awesometemple, by the way.
And because of that fear, thatfear is what propelled them to
obviously crucify the son of God.
(12:46):
Praise be to God, it was all apart of his plan, but I feel
like we're living with that sortof fear today.
That's shaping the way weaddress, maybe, creative ideas,
those of us that may be on themissional fringe and I don't shy
away from saying that I want tobe whatever.
It is short of sin to reachpeople with the gospel.
That's what we need to be aboutand our theology propels us
(13:08):
toward that end.
But I think there's been ashift over the last maybe three
to four decades and I'd love toget your take on how that has
happened, david.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Wow, how is looking at the hearts of people?
And I certainly can't do that.
I think fear, however, is a bigpart of it, and you can sense
that.
Is culture changing?
Has culture become more open tosin and thinking it's right and
speaking well of sin?
Well, I think the Bibleactually tells us that.
(13:36):
Read Romans 1, 18 and following.
I believe, and you just know,this is going to happen, but the
church never shied away.
I'm almost wondering that,under the guise of you know pure
theology, and I say, guys, Idon't want that to be judgmental
because I don't know what themotivations are, but the Bible
(13:58):
has never needed defense.
God has never needed to bedefended, as if he couldn't
handle it.
But he does raise us up to belights to the world, to be a
witness to the world.
And when you just startconcentrating inside and are not
(14:19):
looking at the power of thegospel to take outside of the
church walls to reach the world,it's interesting what happens.
Tim, I heard a story once and Ican't remember the author.
It was about springtime, it wasa spring snowstorm.
They had gone, he and hisfather and his other uncle and
(14:40):
his son.
The two boys were the same age,went to I think it was Northern
Texas spring snowstorm came andthey couldn't get out to fish.
The first day that was fine,they stayed in the camper,
played cards all day.
But you know, after a whilethat gets a little rough.
And the next day went outsnowing worse and icing water
had even iced over a little bit.
(15:01):
They went back inside and hesaid it was interesting what
happened.
They just started picking ateach other and it was getting
really uncomfortable and by thenext day they just packed up and
he said here's the moral of thestory for me, when you don't
fish, you fight.
When we're not out fishing,that is for the lost.
(15:23):
You can think of the greatharvest of fish a couple of
times in the Bible.
They're really at the beginningof Jesus' ministry and at the
end, what do you do?
You fight.
And I honestly think thatcarrying out the mission of God,
the missio Dei, has asanctifying and purifying effect
on the church, where itactually would help us and bless
(15:46):
us as we take out the word.
Tim, if I could say one morestory, because I can hear and
I've had those questions aboutwell, then, you're just going to
compromise everything and I,like what you said earlier, do
everything short of sin.
I get it.
Amen.
And it's really from our firstpresident of the Missouri Synod.
(16:07):
Cfw Walther and he is one thatyou know addressed the first
synodical conference andapparently there were
difficulties going on there too.
Or you know people picking onone another or whatever it might
have been, and he says brothers, pure doctrine, pure doctrine,
(16:28):
pure doctrine.
People always ask me aboutwhat's so important about pure
doctrine.
And then he said that's likesaying to the farmer good seed,
good seed, good seed, what goodis good seed?
Well, it's a very reasonablething to understand that.
What he was saying was ofcourse you want the best seed,
it brings the best harvest.
(16:48):
Of course you want to maintainpure doctrine.
No one has ever asked us tocompromise that.
But let's take it, know it sowell, be motivated and led by
the Spirit that we can share it,proclaim it, be the lights in
the world that God wants us tobe and let the Holy Spirit have
the harvest.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Amen.
So you bring up a question.
You know that God doesn't needdefense, that the scripture
doesn't necessarily bringdefense, and I can hear people
saying well, what about 1 Peter,3, verse 15 and 16?
But in your hearts, honorChrist, the Lord as holy, always
being prepared to make adefense to anyone he asks for
the reason, for the hope that isin you.
Yeah, do a gentlest respectinto the good conscience so that
(17:29):
when those that malign you, uh,or slander you, those who
revile your good behavior inchrist, maybe put to put to
shame, what would you say to abrother says obviously the
gospel needs defense.
Peter peter says so plainly inscripture.
What do you say there, david?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Always be ready to make a defense, that is, know
why you believe what you believe.
Hold the word out there and Ithink you're defending yourself
by what you are saying or bywhat you have done.
And please note that this isout there, the way it looks in
the world.
It's not just the let's gatherin a church.
I'm going to defend myselfMaybe rarely, that would be
(18:06):
needed but you're out theresharing why you're defending
that, why you're proclaiming thegospel, defending that against
the world, so that if they comeafter us and, by the way, this
leads to fear, I'm going to getto that If they come after us,
we have a good conscience.
The church sees us, our Lordsees us.
We need fear nothing becauseGod's got us.
(18:29):
We are in his hand.
And here's what I think we fear,tim, tim Ferriss.
We have enjoyed comfort.
We have enjoyed a very, at onetime, a pretty receptive culture
to Christianity.
This dramatically changed.
We still think we live in thatera at times, but we fear what
(18:54):
happens if we share the truthand we're persecuted.
What happens if we share thetruth and people condemn us or
put us down or so forth?
Fine, our name is written inheaven.
What if we're martyred.
Oh, my goodness, look atprevious centuries and brothers
and sisters in Christ in thiscentury that have given their
life for the word of God.
Let us not fear men, let usfear the Lord, god, and let us
(19:19):
be about his mission, for whichwe will be held accountable.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Yeah, amen.
And have you seen the movieBonhoeffer, by the way?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I have not, and actually it's on our winter
snowed in list, so maybe it's atonight watch.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's really really well done.
We had about 150 people thatpacked a feeder in our
congregation this past Sunday totake it in and yeah, it was
really really well done.
And I just think of the courageof Bonhoeffer standing for the
gospel of Jesus, notcompromising.
(19:53):
You could make a case likedefending the truth of scripture
, defending the centrality ofChrist crucified, but doing so
against the powers that be,namely the church.
So where the church is in error, like we need voices from
within, inside, like kindadjutants, kind friends, those
(20:16):
that come along and say, hey,maybe our eyes are off.
The main thing, and the mainthing has always been to make
disciples, who make disciples.
So the multiplication of themessage of the word of Christ,
that when we gather for word andsacrament, why are we gathering
?
Yes, to be comforted by theword of God.
Yes, to be reminded our sinsare forgiven and we eat and
drink and taste that the Lord isgood, he's for me.
(20:38):
But we're there and I say thisway more often we are there to
mobilize missionaries in all oftheir respective vocations to
share the message of thecrucified and risen Jesus.
That's why we gather tomobilize the baptized for love
and good deeds, if anythingother than that, your holy
huddle like that's not the.
That's never been the primaryfocus of the divine service.
(20:59):
The divine service is meant tomobilize us, to remind us who we
are in our baptism and to sendus with the presence of God in
the blessing.
This goes back to Numbers,chapter six.
This is a presence of God whichgoes before you and leads.
You're sent, you're sent, itleads.
So, yeah, we've just been andI've said this publicly we've
just, over time, becomeimbalanced.
We need the office of holyministry, but we're there to
(21:22):
mobilize, to equip.
Obviously, the apostle Paul isvery eager to do this in
Ephesians, chapter four, toequip the saints for love and
good deeds.
We got all these differenttitles and things.
All well and good, but don'tforget your primary focus, which
is mobilizing the saints to intheir various vocations from
their home.
Yes, yes, let's focus ontraining up the next generation
in our home.
(21:43):
There's a big movement havemore kids.
It's great, let's have morekids and train up the next
generation in the way theyshould go.
But don't, don't make the endresult, just like here for us,
protective.
No, no, no.
The end result is the missionof God to send and propel the
saints for love and good deedsto be light and salt in a dark
and dying world, to carry thelight and love of Christ.
(22:03):
This is to go back to thedefense.
To go back to the defense,brother, always be prepared to
make a defense for anyone whoasks out in the world, the
Gentile, the pagan, the lost,for a reason, for the hope that
you have.
Every time the apostle Paultalks about hope, it's centered
in the hope of the resurrection.
So this is his call.
The defense is not protective.
The defense is actually open,open to the world, open to those
(22:24):
who don't know the gospel ofJesus.
So I pray for that day to getback to that place, as and I
think there's a lot of room, alot of room here you may have a
different approach as it relatesto the liturgy.
God bless you, you know but,don't forget the main, and
that's, that's contextual,that's cultural for you, it
works for you.
But don't forget the main thing, which is mobilizing the saints
(22:45):
for love and good deeds.
I'm off my little rant there,david.
Anything to land that planethere, brother.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
No, I would tell.
I just say this to you, tim,thank you, I would say amen.
And if can you imagine if wecould regain that, that
forethought, if we could regainthat target of reaching the lost
, how I believe, how it wouldpull us together.
Yes, you need good seed, yes,you need good doctrine, but what
does your context require?
(23:10):
I am in culture.
I am thinking of when I wasdistrict president, tim, and
getting to know Detroit a bitand I love those congregations
and those men that are there.
I was blown away.
I was a mission pastor in a veryrural area, marlette, michigan.
Then I became a youth pastor.
So it's kind of you just servethe kids in your school, kids in
(23:31):
the public school.
We had seven different highschools so I got in the world a
bit.
There.
You know being at their gamesand their events and getting to
know them or cafeteria time orwhatever.
And then know being at theirgames and their events and
getting to know them orcafeteria time or whatever, and
then becoming the senior pastorat Our Savior.
You're kind of you get a little.
You can see I'm almost becomingmore church focused as you go
along.
But you also have to make adetermined decision that I have
(23:56):
to talk about and I have toshare that we are here, as you
said, to reach the lost.
That's really what we're about,and how are we doing?
How can we accomplish that?
And I am thankful that Ialready always had leaders
around me that would emphasizethat.
So we have left that Landingthe plane is.
(24:16):
Let's get back to thatcentrality, that focus.
Let's encourage one another inthat regard and that is what the
center is all about.
Let's keep Jesus, his word, histeachings, his gospel seed and
reaching the lost as the center,and let God do the rest.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
So so, listener, if you're wondering what would be a
tangible next step for me in inworship, I've done it a couple,
three times recently, andsometimes people get
uncomfortable when you havepeople stand up in church, but
this last Sunday there wereprobably we had I don't know how
many, 800, something like thatin worship and probably about
(24:53):
200 adults in various vocationsstood up during the close of my
message and and I commissionedthem as missionaries in the
marketplace.
Wow, and and they there wasthis like wow, this standing up,
like I know who.
I go out carrying the gospel ofJesus and not just in how I
(25:14):
live, how I treat people.
To be sure, we're going totreat people.
We have a different characterthe way we engage the
marketplace.
But, as the Lord givesopportunity, I want to tell
people about the hope that Ihave, Do so with gentleness and
respect, but I want to talkabout Jesus.
I'm going to pray foropportunities to talk about
Jesus and I think there's many,many women and male leaders in
our church out in themarketplace that are waiting to
(25:37):
receive that permission fromtheir pastor.
Go, go, go.
I am sending you Any thoughtsthere, David?
I hope I didn't.
I mean, it was just acommissioning and I'll do it
every single day.
Actually, every day when youwake up, you're commissioned,
through your baptism, to carrythe message of Christ out into
the world.
But sometimes we need leadersto just kind of stand up and
give that sort of permission.
Pastor says I can go talk aboutJesus.
Yes, please do so.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Go ahead, david.
I would say amen again.
Tim, thank you for doing that,and that's a very visible thing
to do.
That reminds the people thatwere present and, I believe, our
listeners now too, that throughour baptisms we were joined to
Christ.
Christ lives in us.
It's no longer I who live, butnow Christ who lives in me.
Or you go to Roman sixbaptismal theology in Christo
(26:20):
and Christo, we are in Christ.
Christ is in us and he came toseek and to save the lost.
He's given that, that, thatcommissioning to us and to all
of our members, and for them tohear that, know that, be
reminded of that, encouraged inthat, what a blessing.
And to make that visible inthat, what a blessing.
And to make that visible.
(26:41):
So, getting back to your youknow the Peter passage always be
ready to give a reason for thehope.
So would people know thatyou're hopeful, yeah, or are you
just hiding?
Are you scared?
Are you fearful?
Do you stand out?
Why do you stand out?
It's only when you stand outthat you might actually have to
give a defense, criticize forsomething you say.
(27:02):
Do believe how you act, andit's also what people will see
if you're living hope and if youare living hope because you
have living hope, as Peter says,first chapter, there, man, that
looks different.
And how excited people will beto ask you, because that is not
what the world has to give, boom.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Let's go All right.
Let's do the proverbial pivot.
You were a district presidentfor 13, 13 years plus one.
What was the best and worst,the hardest part of being a
district president?
Get us behind the curtain therea little bit, David hardest
part of being a districtpresident.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Get us behind the curtain there a little bit,
david.
First of all, I would sayworking at the parish level
truly is.
My father would say that iswhere the rubber hits the road.
That is it.
That is the best of the best.
And if you do anything else inthe church he became a professor
at one of our seminaries and hewas a vice president and Senate
and the like If you do anythingdifferent, it has to be because
(28:04):
you believe that you can helpthat message of the gospel and
the office that the word isgetting out there.
So, having said that, I wouldsay I found working at the
district office with the qualityof people that were there or
the team I was allowed to puttogether of looking for the very
(28:25):
best that had a similar visionlike that.
We want to support gospeloutreach.
That was absolutely the best.
In Michigan we have a MichiganChurch Extension Fund and they
are an amazing group of peoplethat support gospel outreach and
that's how they really blessall of our congregations and we
(28:45):
were certainly blessed by that.
I had incredible vicepresidents for all 13 years.
These were not yes-men guys.
They were elected by theregions and then nominated by
the regions and then elected bythe conventions, and then
nominated by the regions andthen elected by the conventions.
And these were men thatchallenged what I would say.
I was very open with them, Ishared how I was doing ministry
(29:06):
and why and what our goals werefor that six months or a year or
two years or five years.
And they would say what's goingon here?
Or I would bring something elsein and say are you leaving some
of your goals here?
But they would challengechallenge else in and say are
you leaving, like some of yourgoals here, but they would
challenge challenge.
And once they understood theywould not, they would certainly
(29:29):
change me or I could help formthem.
And then we went together insomething that was mutually
agreed upon.
Benefit they're great men,circuit visitors, unbelievable
men, I would say.
Getting to know the leaders atConcordia University and Arbor
what an absolute blessing theykicked out was.
They were stunning.
You know we had a growinguniversity with President Ferry
(29:49):
and CFO Al Prochnow.
Of course, now it's being soldor reimagined.
That's just hard, I would say.
Getting to know other districtpresidents Tim on the council
was amazing and there's acamaraderie that's there because
there are 34 other men therethat know what you're going
(30:11):
through, and that's a good thing.
So I would say that was all ofthose things were the best.
Did you say worse too?
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, yeah, there are .
There are hard things.
I mean the fires you have toput out, the, the discipline or
removal, I would imagine, ofvarious leaders.
I mean, how hard are thosethings?
And my take in just kind ofwatching, observing the way
district presidents function,just kind of watching observing
the way district presidentsfunction.
You've got to be intentionalabout vision and shaping the
(30:48):
culture of your district towardmission, because you could
easily just like a pastor, could, you could easily become just
reactive toward the squeakywheel or toward this or that.
How did you kind of set up, Iguess, a team of people to
support you in the putting outof fires?
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Tell that story a little bit, david so you're
right, things can become adistraction, and so having vice
presidents that I said that werecentered in the word these
regions nominated great men Idid use them to help me with
fires.
Sometimes there was aninvestigation or I would say,
(31:22):
just kind of seeking of thetruth.
What is going on?
And I think for all of us, acontinual emphasis on prayer
that we do not know at all.
We do not know at all.
And we, why did God encourageus to pray and why?
Why did he give us the Lord'sprayer?
It was so that we would ifJesus bowed before the Father as
(31:45):
the God-man.
Maybe we should think aboutdoing that more often too, and
seeking God and not only askinghim to bless what we are doing,
but asking him to lead us to dowhat he wants to bless.
And so, you know, having vicepresidents that knew that focus
but had to deal with some ofthese issues, sometimes circuit
(32:07):
visitors also what an justincredible blessing that allowed
us to maintain some type offocus of holding up the gospel.
And I would also say and I'mgoing to mention the name here
of holding up the gospel, and Iwould also say and I'm going to
mention the name here, I got toknow Bill Woolsey through some
(32:27):
of the events that he wouldsponsor and I just found a man
of God that I could respect andlove and appreciated the
speakers that he would bring in,and so I just asked him if he
would come and spend some timewith us as a district.
I just asked him if he wouldcome and spend some time with us
as a district and we went tokind of a three year plan more
(33:05):
or less and looked at what hecould do to help all of our
congregations think about takingthe gospel that does not change
and having it go out so that itcan change forever lives.
And I'm just grateful foreveryone that God has surrounded
me with and helped me to get toknow that I can work within
ministry, and all the peopleI've mentioned are those people.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Amen.
Well, bill Woolsey, good friend, a decent golfer.
A decent golfer, bill, I loveyou.
And no, an amazing, amazingministry heart.
He's very competitive.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
It is competitive nature.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Oh, my goodness, to the next, to the next level.
But love you, bill, and proudof all that the Lord has done
through 5-2 to be sure.
So, back in 2018 into 19,.
David, you were put forward bya number of folks to potentially
be Synod president.
What did you learn during thatjourney, David?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Oh, man, brother, a lot I would have to say a lot,
lot, and I'm going to borrowmaybe from some of the things
that I said, even about thedistrict, the people I got to
meet, the, the congregations,all of which are the bride of
christ, all different, allbeautiful to the lord, but man,
they are all.
They're different, differentsizes, and and not just the
(34:16):
buildings, I'm the people.
I mean it's just amazing.
Uh, they're all precious ingod's sight.
And so getting to meet people Inever thought I and not just
the buildings, the people, Imean it's just amazing, they're
all precious in God's sight.
And so getting to meet people Inever thought I would meet was
absolutely an incredibleblessing.
Often I got to speak at districtconventions as an essay so I
could share some thoughts and, Ithink, missional understanding
(34:36):
and I appreciate comments thereGetting to know the pastors, if
I was given time, I was amazedhow often they would say hey,
can we talk to you?
There's a group of us, sure,and they would ask questions and
I could ask them hey, what areyour dreams, what are your
doubts and what are you lookingfor in a president?
All of that was humbling.
We have such good people, timthat serve in the office and I
(35:00):
was blown away by that.
So I would say those were thereally positive things about
running for or letting my Idon't like running, letting my
name stand for a synodicalpresident.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Well, grateful, grateful you did, and I'm just
as I look at you and many, manyleaders like you.
Thank you for staying engagedin the mission, thank you for
staying engaged in the life ofthe church.
Things have changed, though inthe local church.
In the last gosh it's been 14,15 years or so since you were
(35:35):
kind of in the parish, since youleft, and you still have a good
kind of macro view because ofyour time as a district
president and now withthecenterinfo, the center shout
out.
Since you left the parish, whatdo you think has changed the
most in just local parishministry in the last 15 years?
David?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So first, you're right, I've been out of it for
13 years, been grateful to servelocally here at Our Savior in
Benzonia, sometimes at Trinityin Arcadia and that's still a
blessing.
So I'm doing that actually moreoften than when I was beginning
to learn in the parish before Iwas elected district president
(36:22):
was how much context for ourcongregations is changing a
culture and I'm not just talking, the world is changing and look
how dark it's getting, whateverit is, but then the gospel
shines brighter.
But that each individualcongregation is different.
My mission church and we're allmissionaries, tim, yes, my
(36:46):
mission church, as it wasdesignated, in Marlette,
completely different than when Iwent to I think at that time it
was the second or third largestchurch in the Synod, st Peter,
ernington Heights, and served asyouth pastor and what a shock.
It had more than one stoplight,that whole area.
It's a northern suburb ofChicago.
But then just to see whattensions and pressures the kids
(37:09):
were facing and their parentsand the congregation was
fascinating.
And then as district president,to know each congregation is
different, so that even thoughthere's a congregation at the
very tip of Northern Michiganthat is serving 200 people and
there's a church in SoutheastMichigan, detroit or Southwest
(37:31):
Michigan, benton Harbor, maybe200 also.
All three of them are servingin such diverse circumstances.
Their ministries not only lookdifferent, I almost want to say
they had to be different.
If they're in tune with theLord and listening to their
people and praying to the HolySpirit, god leads his people.
This is Jesus.
(37:52):
My sheep hear my voice and theyfollow me and I give unto them
eternal life and no one cansnatch them out of my hand.
But we're listening, we discernthe voice of the good shepherd,
the Savior Jesus, and follow.
And every church is different.
So that's what I saw, that'swhat I brought to people's
(38:13):
understanding.
I pray, I hope that there was amassive encouragement and not
judgment from the brothers foreveryone else in the district
and I think we had a phenomenalspirit of encouragement and, in
that regard, unity, goingforward and just respecting what
other people were doing in thecontext in which they were,
(38:37):
context in which they were.
I would also say, you know,just having people draw close to
the Lord and he says and I willdraw close to you, he will hear
our prayers and answer them andwe just have to be, we have to
follow that voice.
I think the LCMS, in manyregards, has been educated way
(39:03):
beyond the level of ourobedience to the word and we
really need to get back to thatyou know, if I can say something
to Tim in that regard.
Yes, you can.
That's kind of why I like the S, that's why I do like and love
the SMP program and I wishsomehow that it could expand,
because men are raised up incontext and they know what
(39:27):
ministry is like from ministryone, from minute one.
They're not just trained for aideal church of 200 where
there's no financial problems,everybody loves the pastor and
can't wait to volunteer, and soyou know, I don't know that that
church exists, I think incontext in context.
(39:48):
They're raised up, so they knowwhat they're getting into.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
People have recognized their spiritual chops
, so to speak, and that's why Ithink that program is really,
quite frankly, invaluable, Iagree, and I think it can get
better and I think our SMPpastors can get a degree and I
think raising up contextualleaders.
I'm resisting the urge to godown that path right now.
David, that's not this podcast,but I think, maybe another time
(40:15):
, a lot of time.
But yeah, I think we can elevatethe need for robust,
theologically trained we don'tcompromise on the truths of who
we are and how we've beentrained and we can do it
virtually for the sake ofraising up contextual leaders
very, very well.
And I believe if we do that,residential only increases
(40:37):
Residential only increases Ifthe brand of seminary education
is more open.
Seminary residential educationincreases.
I've said it publicly many,many times and I every time.
So, let me, let me bring ithome toward this.
I said I wasn't going to dothis.
Now I'm doing it, but everytime and any kind of seminary
(40:58):
leader you need to uh, I'minviting you and not not you
need to, I'm inviting you tolisten to a guy who's in the
trenches of local ministry.
Every single time, I say yes toa new venture to reach people
with the gospel.
Our local ministry grows.
(41:18):
Every single time we it's likeGod is a God of abundance rather
than scarcity, David everysingle time we open up to the
new possibility to reach peoplewith the gospel, what we do
locally improves, and the sameprinciple will take place for a
theological formationconversation.
Our God is not a God ofnarrowing narrow, he's widening.
He's widening.
He wants more and more.
Yes, the God is not a God ofnarrowing narrow, he's widening.
(41:39):
He's widening.
He wants more and more.
Yes, the way is narrow, but wewant to widen the approach to
reaching more people with thegospel, and leaders are
necessary toward that, towardthat end.
So, synod leader, synodpresidents and and seminary
presidents, I would love tocontinue to have the
conversation toward that end andI know, David, you share the
same, the same heartbeat today.
(42:01):
We need to raise up moreleaders, local, and this will
not hurt residential.
It will only improve what we doresidentially.
So, David, anything more to addthere to land that plane.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
I'll tell you what, tim.
No, I appreciate your attitude.
God is not a God of scarcity,but of abundance.
People in Michigan would knowthat one of my favorite verses
is from Ephesians, chapter three.
God is able to do.
God is far more abundantly,immeasurably more than all we
ask or imagine.
According to his power that isat work, catch this within us
(42:35):
and in the church, and I thinkour problem and maybe because
you know we I want to be carefulhow I say this, because I don't
mean it to be a cultural, youknow, sting at all.
You know we're so German.
It's maybe it's hard to imagineand maybe it's hard to pray,
but I know more and more peopleare praying and taking God up on
(42:55):
his word and promises and toimagine what God can do, which
is what you do so well, tim.
May that be blessed and may ourchurch be blessed in the future
in that regard as well.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Hey, this has been so fun, david, I want to talk.
This is a leadership podcast,and healthy leaders raise up
other healthy leaders and createhealthy churches that are
mobilized for mission.
So what are your top fourcharacteristics of a healthy
pastoral leader, david?
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Okay, well, I appreciate that and you gave me
some insight that that might beasked.
I'm going to say there'sprobably a couple of these that
could tie into each other prettywell.
Absolutely, a mandate is thatthe individual have a strong
personal relationship with theLord, that he knows his God,
(43:45):
that he knows his word, that hehears him speak, that he can
discern the voice time in theword prayer.
I have to admit that early onin ministry, until I met some
pastors that loved me enough tocome alongside me and just
constructively criticize oradvise or encourage, you know,
(44:05):
prayer was a last thing, gosh,if there's time, I have too much
else to do, too many people tosee, and then you know, you're
reminded of Luther.
If you have so much more to doin a day, what do you do?
Well, I get up two hoursearlier to pray.
Do in a day, what do you do?
Well, I get up two hoursearlier to pray.
Now, I didn't do that, but Itried to consistently,
(44:28):
concentratedly, spend time inprayer.
Look at the day start on Sunday, map out some things for that
week, even to know how I wasgoing to pray, and realize that
when emergencies came, god knewabout them and he wasn't
surprised wasn't surprised byCOVID, by the way and that we
entrust ourselves to him andpray and that he's going to help
us get it done.
And where we think we fallshort, isn't it wonderful Now we
(44:51):
do fall short that the blood ofJesus Christ, god's son,
cleanses us from all sin.
So have to have a deep personalrelationship with the Lord.
I would even encouragejournaling to see answered
prayer and how God is working inyour life, your family's life,
your congregation.
I would say you have to have aphenomenal relationship with
your wife.
Now, I know that for some it'seasier.
(45:13):
You've been blessed with agreat wife, tim.
I've been blessed with aphenomenal wife, pat, and she is
a godly, quiet woman that hasendured so much and I cannot say
how grateful I am with her.
But to have a spiritualconnection with her, a social
connection with her, keep datingyour wife, certainly physical,
(45:35):
and certainly enjoy that.
That's wonderful Mentalconnection.
All of those are important and,by the way, that should also
take place with your family andthat's why I think vacations are
important.
And if you ask my kids, theyknew I was busy as a pastor and
they knew I loved them and Iwould try and take time and get
to their games and I know youcoached him.
(45:57):
God bless you and do as muchwith them as I possibly could.
But they also knew thatvacation time that was
concentrated family time.
I would say if you have sons,have them take out mom.
If you have daughters, takethem out on dates, let them know
what a Christian man is like,let the wife know what a
(46:17):
Christian woman is like, and Ijust think that's so critically
important.
So those intimate relationships, and then I would say, man,
have a great relationship withyour staff.
If you have a school, with yourteachers and the leadership of
the school and then with allyour professors and, quite
(46:38):
frankly, with people in yourcommunity accident and please
hear that this is a confession.
I knew the principals in manyof the locations of my
congregations that I served.
I knew, in a couple of cases,detectives and heads of police
(46:58):
departments and fire departments, because they were members or
good friends or they came to anevent.
I think pastors now need to bemore deliberate in getting to
know community leaders so thatsomething does happen.
Community leaders know who theywant to turn to and why.
And there you go, tim always beready to give a reason for the
hope that you have and to sharethat and to be invited to do
(47:21):
that as well, and sometimesyou'll be criticized.
You have, and to share that andto be invited to do that as
well, and sometimes you'll becriticized, but be invited to do
so as well.
And I think we will also bedefended as we are coming to
bring hope, which everyone inthis world needs.
Amen.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So, yeah, that's a great summary.
So, prayer, deep dependence onprayer, prayer without ceasing.
You got to be in rightrelationship with your spouse
and your kids If we miss on ourprimary vocations as a leader
man, we miss on absolutelyeverything.
And how does Satan seek to takedown many leaders?
It's when we don't have thatsolid relationship with those
(47:56):
who are closest to us and we'renot living in accountability.
I don't want to be another statof a pastor that fell off with
some sort of immoral breakdownbecause I didn't pursue my, my
wife Uh, that that would be theworst thing.
And she, I love, I love it.
She's a kind adversary to me,right?
She, she's like Tim, you're notyou're not that big a deal.
(48:18):
You're like.
You're like who cares about youLike just mind your, mind your
position.
Alexa is really great forletting me know.
She's an encourager, for sure,but I got plenty of
encouragement around me.
I need someone who keeps megrounded, and that's my wife.
She's amazing.
And then to have, I think, outof that relationship that's how
(48:39):
you kind of enter into thenrelationship with leaders in
your church and leaders in thecommunity, with a right
perspective.
I'm just one leader amonghundreds and thousands.
Then the Lord can work, with orwithout me.
I'm grateful he's working inthe small little corner of his
kingdom with me.
But mind your role and do notthink you're too big for
discipline, because disciplinecomes from the kind adversary
(49:03):
which is the Holy Spirit wholives in my wife and sounds a
lot like Alexa Allman.
Praise be to God, david, whatdo you?
Speaker 3 (49:09):
want to say there Amen.
I love that term, kind,adversary.
I would have to say that Pat iscertainly one of the kindest
women I know.
I love that you said adversary,because that's kind of that
check and balance deal and Pathas been that all my life.
Kind enough to say do you thinkthat went through?
I don't think so.
Or just find something elsethat she might just call me at
(49:33):
attention to, Like you say youlove your children, but I don't
think you've been around thelast month.
What do you think about this?
And it's like ooh, good call.
I know you've been sayingsomething and now you made it
really plain.
Thank you.
She was the one to be consultedIf I let my name stand to be
considered for districtpresident.
She was the one to be consultedto let your name stand for
(49:55):
synodical president.
And man, your wife is going tobe intimately involved in
whatever you do.
And the Lord makes it plainhave your household, you know,
make it an example and ademonstration of love and grace
and have a kind opponent there.
I like that A kind adversary.
(50:16):
God bless that.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah, it is.
This is kind of funny, to me atleast.
We have this video that justcame out and when this podcast
gets released, it's been out forsome time now, but it was
called the Church Office and itwas this little spoofy thing we
put together for a district allworkers conference and a lot of
people thought it was funny atthe district conference and so
(50:38):
we released it on YouTube andover the course of like four or
five days days it had like20,000 views or something like
that on on YouTube and I told,but yeah, whatever, I told my
wife that you know, hey, honey,this is kind of going viral and
she's like that's not even closeto viral.
Tim, I'm sorry, but it's a goodtry.
She's seen viral stuff.
That happens and I'm like okay,it's LCMS viral honey, I don't
(51:01):
know.
Anyway, so silly, we had somuch fun with you.
David, thank you for being afriend and a partner in the
gospel.
If you have one or a few wordsof prayer and it is a prayer
what are your biggest prayersfor the LCMS?
Where do you look at us and yousay we need to grow in this
(51:21):
Jesus direction?
We'll land this conversationthere, wow.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
The church is made up of sinners, congregations, the
church in general, ourdenomination, and if it weren't
so, we shouldn't be here.
Christ Jesus came to give uslife for and the gospel is meant
for all sinners.
So we've got to be thankful forthe gospel and hold that up.
What I'm really concerned about, and what I hear from my
(51:49):
children even, is that you know,when there's so many
distractions in the church, poppeople don't see Jesus.
They see churches on eachother's case or they're arguing
about this or fighting aboutthat.
Quite frankly, tim, they wouldchallenge me in high school and
bring friends over and I wouldlearn about them later, these
friends, just to see how wewould react and respond.
(52:11):
Or they would tell me ahead oftime they want to see how we'd
react and respond and I thinkthey always I know they always
appreciated a genuine living outof the gospel.
I was not perfect Maybe my wifeis, but I was not perfect by
any means and they'll remind meof that too.
But when I think about that,what was necessary in the family
?
I think what is necessary inthe church, and that's humility,
(52:34):
and I don't see a lot of it inour church denomination.
We need humility, we need toknow that we are all sinners,
that we stand before a righteousGod.
In whatever office that Godplaces us, we're going to be
held accountable, and that Godhas a desire to bless us, but he
also wants us to draw close tohim through humility.
I would say.
(52:54):
Repentance, tim.
A question I received once waslike what would you do as a
nautical president?
What would you do as asynodical president?
And then even there was a lotof bad diversity, judgmentalism,
arguments.
I said I would love for ourdistricts to hold a service of
(53:20):
repentance, that we could repentof whatever we have done to
contribute to chaos in thechurch, or power hungriness in
the church or judgmental.
We need to repent.
We need to learn how to relateto one another.
So I think speaking the truthand love is also a critical
component.
I'm not saying forget If yousee someone doing wrong.
If we love our brother, we dohave a responsibility.
(53:41):
I'll throw in here, not acrossdistrict lines, for God's sake,
just get to know your brothersand sisters in the area.
But if you see someone you knowwhat, draw attention to it and
speak to them first.
Always, in whatever you do,speak the truth of love.
I strove to do that when I wasa DP, even in the most severe
discipline issues.
(54:02):
And then finally, and I mightsay here, even most importantly,
we have to have a missionaltheology that is centered in
Christ, that is centered in themissio Dei, the mission of God
to seek and to save the lost.
That's why we're here, that'swhy Jesus came, that's why the
church continues, and that hasgot to be a priority.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
And I want to say, finally it is for the center.
Hey, there we go.
This has been awesome, david.
You're a gift to me and to thebody of Christ, and so, yeah,
this has been a joy If peoplewant to connect with you and
your ministry.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
How can they do so?
You know email david at thecenter T-H-E-C-E-N-T-E-R dot
info the center dot info.
You can go to the online site,which is the center dot info.
That's also the website.
Check out the resources thatare there.
You can go to Concordia Market,which is where we're collecting
(55:07):
the resources and having peopleencourage one another.
There's also God Works, whichis original content that we're
producing, and I know that theywould find something very
helpful there as well.
So let me give you my cellphone too, tim, and I'm fine
with you publishing that.
It's in the church directory aswell, or the synodical
directory, but 734-355-1973.
(55:28):
Finally, I would say we justfinished our first collaboration
at the end of October in AnnArbor, tim, I'd like to use this
opportunity to invite people toour next collaboration, which
is going to be at Risen Saviorin Chandler, arizona.
That's right next to PhoenixCommunity of and right before
(55:50):
Best Practices, and I would juststrongly encourage them to come
and to join us there.
We're going to be concentratingon again the mission of God and
the title.
This time is Now Knew More.
Now is the favorable time.
New sing to the Lord, a newsong, god saying behold, I'm
doing a new thing and more.
(56:10):
Of course.
We've already referred toEphesians 3.
God is able to do far moreabundantly.
Now Knew More.
Please come and join usFebruary 11 and 12.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
And people can get info of that at thecenterinfo.
Is that where they go to signup?
Speaker 3 (56:25):
Yes, a special site is going to be set up for that
collaboration.
They can find out moreinformation there and it's
called collaboration, so that wecan work together and encourage
one another.
Speaker 2 (56:36):
Amen.
Come into Phoenix just a bitearly before BPM on February
13th through 15th.
Come to Now New More, february11 and 12 at Risen Savior in
Chandler, arizona.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
I'll be there and I like that.
You gave out your cell phone.
I actually gave out.
I was on a podcast called Onthe Line with Brian Stecker, a
(56:57):
young man who's leading up inthe Twin Cities area, and we had
a good time.
He asked me to give out my cell.
So I gave out my cell and I'mlike I don't know, can I reach
out or whatever.
I got like bump, I mean kind ofreasonably bombarded, like 10
different folks that listen tothe podcast this was just like
yesterday have actually text meand we're having interactions
(57:21):
and a couple of them were not.
You know they're not fans of meand what we do, but that's okay
, we're all.
We're all working it outtogether.
So I'll just say 303-887-0507,303-887-0507.
Text is appreciated and we canset up conversations toward the
Jesus end.
And, as always, if you want toget on this podcast, I would
prefer, because it takes a bitto schedule these.
(57:43):
I'd prefer if you sent me anemail If you've got a difference
of opinion and want to get onto share that opinion.
We'd love to have you, t Allman, at CGL Church, cglchurchorg.
So, david, you're a gift.
Thank you for this time.
This is Lead Time.
Sharon is Karen.
Like, subscribe, comment.
Wherever it is you take inthese podcasts, like us on
YouTube, if you've not done so.
(58:03):
That helps with the algorithmto get the message of love and
joy and peace and missionalinnovation for the sake of those
who do not know Jesus.
That's what we're to be aboutwhile it is day, for night is
approaching when no man or womanwill be able to work, and we
won't be about the master's workwhile it is day.
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day,wonderful, while it is day.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
It's a good day.
Go and make it a great day.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Wonderful.
Thanks, david.
God bless you.
Dear brother, thanks for allyou're doing.
You've been listening to LeadTime, a podcast of the Unite
Leadership Collective.
The ULC's mission is tocollaborate with the local
church to discover, develop anddeploy leaders through biblical
Lutheran doctrine and innovativemethods To partner with us in
this gospel message.
Subscribe to our channel, thengo to theuniteleadershiporg to
create your free login forexclusive material and resources
(58:47):
and then to explore ways inwhich you can sponsor an episode
.
Thanks for listening and staytuned for next week's episode.
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