December 6, 2024 • 57 mins
Reverend Dr. Jamison Hardy, the newly elected president of the Concordia University System, joins us to unveil the transformative shifts brewing within the Concordia universities. Discover the impact of the 2023 convention's resolution 704B, which pivots the system from managing bricks and mortar to robust ecclesiastical support. We celebrate the vitality coursing through these institutions, with promising developments such as the 802 church work students eager to shape the future of Lutheran ministry. This episode is your gateway to understanding how Lutheran Identity and Mission Outcome Standards are steering a new era for Concordia students and their communities.
The conversation takes a candid turn as we navigate the challenges Concordia universities face, including recent closures and the complex dynamics in Texas. Dr. Hardy bravely shares the tightrope walk of balancing mission-driven goals with unwavering theological integrity. As we explore diverse worship practices within the Missouri Synod, Dr. Hardy reveals insights from an upcoming chapel worship thesis designed to honor the wide-ranging liturgical styles. This engaging dialogue highlights the necessity for synodically approved materials that respect the tapestry of worship preferences across the university system.
Dive into the financial and emotional landscape of Concordia campuses, with a special focus on Mequon and Ann Arbor. Chancellor Erik Ankerberg and the CUWAA Board of Regents are at the helm, guiding their campuses through financial turbulence while striving for stability and growth. Feel the pulse of the university community as we discuss strategic decisions, the heartfelt impact on students, and the unwavering commitment to sustainability. Through candid reflections, we emphasize Concordia's dedication to its mission of spreading the gospel and fostering agents of change, united in hope and faith.
Find peace, clarity, and companionship for your spiritual journey.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Lead Time.
I hope the joy of Jesus is withyou today.
As I'm going to say before Iintroduce my guest, I am praying
.
I'm praying for peace, I'mpraying for joy, I'm praying for
unity, I'm praying for theright, now that this is the last
(00:23):
of the I don't know four orfive conversations I'm going to
have on the Concordia UniversityAnn Arbor conversation, and
it's an honor to have ReverendDr Jameson Hardy with me.
Before we get, though, intoeverything the beauty and the
struggle of the Concordia AnnArbor struggle, could you just
(00:44):
say, say, as a president of theConcordia University system,
tell us something good.
We want to know something goodabout our Concordia's because
there's a lot to share.
How are you doing, dr Hardy?
Thank you for being on leadtime with me, brother.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Great Tim.
Thanks for having me.
It's a privilege and it's a joyto be with you, and I thank God
for what you do.
My friend, I really doappreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, it's an honor and just praying for more unity
and transparency in our churchbody, and I think that's what
we're going to get today.
But what is the president ofthe CUS in your new role?
Now?
Tell us a little bit about thatand how you're interacting with
all of the Concordias that andhow you're interacting with all
(01:27):
of the Concordias.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, thanks.
So let me just start with theconvention of 2023 and the
change with 704B, the resolution704B, which changed CUS quite
drastically.
Actually, I chaired that floorcommittee on 704B and then
subsequently, that floorcommittee on 704B and then
(01:48):
subsequently completely notconnected was elected president
of CUS and took that call.
So CUS is more todayecclesiastical in nature than it
was previously.
Previously it had property.
It had encumbrance of property,loans, sale of property,
budgets, master plans.
That's all now on the LCMSboard of directors which, by the
(02:10):
way, they're going to bemeeting tomorrow, friday the
22nd, and they're going to beconsidering two different
Concordia University masterplans and the like.
That used to be CUS, that usedto be Dr Wenthy and CUS.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So, today.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Predominantly what I do is we support our
universities, their work.
We carry out Synod's LIMOsLutheran Identity and Mission
Outcome Standards.
And let me just say this aboutthe LIMOs the LIMOs are
absolutely not some kind ofLutheran purity standard.
My vice president, reverend DrDouglas Patel, likes to talk
(02:47):
about the Limos as kind of aroadmap or a guide to help our
universities navigate what isgoing on.
And here's some good news and Ireally want this to be clearly
heard we have five greatpresidents and we have five
great universities with sixcampuses that overall are doing
(03:08):
very well and I want that to beheard clearly.
I know a lot of people aregoing to.
We'll talk about the Ann Arborsituation, but I want you to
know we've just completed, as oflast week or two weeks ago,
sorry all the informal visits toall five of our universities,
and I'm sorry, all the informalvisits to all five of our
universities and I'm just goingto say this Every visit we had
(03:29):
was good.
There's a lot of wonderfulthings to celebrate in our
Concordia University system.
There's a lot of great thingsgoing on in our campuses.
You have Irvine just got acouple big grants.
You have St Paul was just namedthe second largest private
college in the state ofMinnesota.
They just expanded St Paul didinto Denver with the nursing
(03:53):
program.
They continue to carry onPortland's nursing program.
Nebraska has had some greatstuff going on there.
Russell Dawn in Chicago we justwere there last week with the
Council of Presidents and thatuniversity has got a lot of
great things going on.
They all have different greatthings going on, but they share
one thing in common and that isa clear, concise confession of
(04:15):
Jesus Christ, the Son of God,the Savior of the world.
And I just I tell you, everytime I'm on campus I marvel I've
had a chance to eat with andmeet with students and it's been
just outstanding.
It's been outstanding.
Give me a couple of numbers 802total church workers in the
system right now.
(04:36):
That's pre-seminary, that'steacher ed, that's all of it Now
.
I would love for that to belots more, but I take great joy
in being able to tell you wehave 802 church work students in
the entire system.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Is that growing?
This is great, I love that.
Is that growing?
Uh, I, I think it is, but atwhat kind of a rate?
Are we seeing growth in all ofthose church worker programs
that people really love to hearthat?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
St Paul.
St Paul is in its 12th yearoverall of growth as a
university and this is thehighest year that it's grown.
The largest church work programit's had Seward and Mequon.
They continue to fight withover 200.
Seward's got 240, over 240students, and so Seward and
(05:20):
Mequon are always in thisbeautiful.
I think it's a good competitionon this of the number of church
workers.
Concordia Irvine is doingfantastic, along with Concordia
Chicago, and so I think they allwant more church workers.
And one of the things we'redoing in CUS this year, Douglas
Patel, my VP, and I, or boardmembers of CUS, will be at every
(05:42):
district convention.
Board members of CUS will be atevery district convention and a
lot of the district presidentshave already given us 10 or 15
minutes to speak.
Because I want to address theconventions, I'm scheduled to be
at 20 of the 35 districtconventions myself.
We will also be speaking at theNational Youth Gathering and at
Higher Things gatherings andanybody else out there that
would like to have us come andtalk about the CUS and about our
(06:04):
schools.
I'd love to because we need togrow that program.
But I want to say this All ofthe universities are focused on
offering the highest qualitychurch work preparation they can
, and so I don't care whetheryou go to Irvine, Mequon, St
Paul, Nebraska or Chicago.
We got great programs, greatpresidents and great
(06:24):
universities.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Paul, nebraska or Chicago.
We got great programs, greatpresidents and great
universities.
Well, that's so good to hear,and I got three kids, who are
all prayerfully.
I got three high schoolers rightnow Jameson and my son.
He's a sophomore highlyconsidering Nebraska and St Paul
Not the other schools are there, but he's he's interested in
(06:47):
playing, playing football inthose programs.
So so we'll see what the Lorddoes.
I'd love for you to.
You know I I get, for whateverreason, because I talked to a
lot of people.
God made me like, he made methat like I just love hanging
out with people from alldifferent types of perspectives.
And so there are various rumorsthat you kind of hear and rumors
, you know, perception isreality for that person.
(07:11):
But our perception cansometimes be maybe misguided or
we can lean too far into arespective rumor.
And now one rumor I've heard isthat, again, just because I
hear, I'm not I'm not talkingabout this at all but is the
LCMS org and CUS narrowing down,narrowing down and this kind of
moves us into the Ann Arbor,like we'd like to get rid of
(07:33):
institutions so that we can kindof make sure we can purify
doctrine and all of thetheological content.
And maybe we're on a pathtoward narrowing all the way
down.
I'm just going to throw out auniversity all the way down to
Concordia, nebraska, and so wecan kind of have control of what
God is doing in theuniversities.
I've heard that narrative.
Please dismiss it, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, not only will I dismiss it, let me be very
clear.
That is absolutely positivelyin contradiction to what
President Harrison has asked meto do, and that is actually to
grow the Concordia Universitysystem.
I have a lot on my plate whenit comes to this and again,
(08:15):
thanks for previously having meon with my book on pastoral
leadership.
But, as you know, I have abusiness background and I have a
business of human and my desireis to grow the CUS, not shrink
it.
And let me be clear, I knowthere's a lot of rumors out
there on the web and Concordiamatters with the Ann Arbor
situation.
I've had some people I went tohigh school with even say this
(08:37):
that Jameson Hardy is, you know,matt Harrison's handpicked man
to shrink the system down to thepurified hole.
And that is a lie.
That is not only a lie, it isan egregious violation of the
Eighth Commandment.
I want to grow the ConcordiaUniversity system.
We've lost three universitiesand you know I'm thankful.
(08:59):
I can say to you with joy acouple.
Well, about a month ago I had aconversation with Don Christian
about Texas.
I've actually asked if I couldcome down and visit CTX, even
though the Synod remember CUS isnot a part of that lawsuit.
The Synod is in communicationand they're trying to work
things out with CTX.
(09:19):
But I want to get CTX back inthe fold.
I've had conversations withdistrict presidents and
university presidents aboutsatellite campuses.
One of them I can say we'relooking at possibly one in
Florida.
We're looking at possibly onein the Northeast, in the central
Northeast.
We realize that there arepockets in the United States
(09:39):
where there's a void of apresence, of a higher education
for Lutheran church and myintention God willing our
presidents have been receptiveof this is try to look at
satellite campuses where wemight just do church work,
preparation in one area ornursing, like St Paul is doing
in Denver.
But please understand, I wantto grow the system.
(10:03):
I want nothing to do withreducing it.
Number two as you well know, Iwas a finalist before Eric was
chosen to be president at CUWand I told people I have a very
strong emphasis on vocationaltraining.
My son, nathaniel, went toMequon for a short time but is
down in Indianapolis studying tobe a diesel mechanic for a
(10:24):
short time but is down inIndianapolis studying to be a
diesel mechanic.
We are missing about 40 to 60%of our students that go to
vocational training, that I'vetalked to the presidents about
considering making a Lutheranvo-tech a Lutheran vocational,
and if they attach it to one ofour universities, these young
people can have a universityexperience, play sports, have
the chapel, you know, and be ina partnership with a local votex
(10:46):
.
So, yeah, not only do I want todispel that rumor, I would hope
and appreciate you and youraudience would actively speak
against anyone who would saythat President Harrison,
specifically, or this guy, isseeking to do anything but grow
the university system.
We need more than less, and soI will not, frankly, be
(11:10):
satisfied until we do expand.
We've lost three of ouruniversities to closure, and
each one of them are different,and, of course, the current
situation with Texas, which isunfortunate.
But I do believe in my heartthat, and I mean this.
I believe in my heart that wewill be able to reconcile that,
and I pray God often that, and Imean this.
I believe in my heart that wewill be able to reconcile that,
and I pray God often that Texascan come back into the fold.
So, yeah, I am not aboutclosure, I'm not about shrinking
(11:33):
.
Our universities are Lutheran,they're faithful, and that's
what I'll say to anybody.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And I can say it, tim , firsthand yeah, I know, I know
, I know, hey one, I believe youand I am not that you need my
belief, but I, I endorse thegrowth trajectory of CUS A
hundred percent.
I mean those ideas that youjust threw out so good.
It makes me actually superjacked up.
I'm super excited about whatthe Lord could do because I see,
(12:04):
I see the next gen man.
I'm in the trenches right nowof ministry three high schoolers
myself.
It's like what are we doing inthat formative time?
It's so huge and our schools,nothing against Lutheran
classical college.
I was going to talk about thata bit too.
I think it takes all kinds toreach all kinds.
I think it's an open market andcompetition is good and we have
(12:26):
the same confession and it'swonderful.
But going to our Concordia isan entirely different experience
and they do have a missionorientation and we do welcome
people from outside.
But we will not compromise ourtheology.
It's just like our K-8 that wehave here, right?
I mean, we're going to teachyou the catechism, we're going
to give you great Lutherantheology, but we're going to
(12:46):
welcome Mormon to Muslim.
But we make no mistake that weare holding true to our Lutheran
core identities here and we cando both things at the same time
.
I think a lot of the narrativehas been like hey, you're either
going down the mission line,you're going to compromise
everything.
Going down the mission line,you're going to compromise
everything, or you've got toreally, really batten down the
hatches.
And we do.
We do both.
We welcome all people to our.
(13:08):
We can and we've struggled,maybe on one end of the spectrum
and so the church.
We're walking toward that.
It is a Lutheran middle wayright today.
So I'm so happy to hear you saywe want to grow those five and
we'd even like to add somecreative extensions of those
five universities.
Strong, strong supporter there.
Before I go into, before we getinto Ann Arbor, maybe one other
(13:33):
, the LEMOs that you bring up Idon't have all my acronyms the
Lutheran.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Lutheran Identity Mission Upcome Standards.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, very good.
So you know, the one that willget like the most like kind of
pull back, it's when we comeinto our chapel.
Situations that are beautifuland need to be.
We need to maintain, I wouldsay, a liturgy, but some of them
can be a little bit more open.
I'm going to be fully honest.
(14:02):
Like I grew up and I've beenvery public about this I grew up
with the early forms ofcontemporary worship, right, and
I'm a vocalist and a singer andall that kind of stuff.
So I've been in the worshipleadership conversation for some
time.
I also will say some of thesongs, not all of them.
Some of the songs were lessthan faithful and less than
(14:25):
helpful for discipleship and Ithink we want to do better with
that.
And so a shout out to theworship leadership into the
Wally group that's there doingsome wonderful things and we're
writing new songs, so manyreally great songs for those who
do have modern instrumentationin our space.
But where I'll land the plane,where we're going to get some
(14:45):
pushback, is if we come in andwe got heavy handed, unless
chapel looks exactly like this.
It's not, it's not Lutheran,would you?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
would you speak into that just a little bit Dr Hardy
yeah, first things first let mejust say this and I think, tim,
you specifically know this aboutme nine years as English
district president and bishop,which is the best nine years so
far of my life in ministry.
But we have in the Englishdistrict probably the absolute
spectrum ends of the MissouriSenate with, let's say, some of
(15:15):
our higher liturgical churches,and then, let's say, the largest
church in the Missouri Senate,hales Corner, is Lutheran and I
can just tell you that I existedin that realm, I think very
successfully, out of respect,knowing that I take the same
approach that President Harrisontakes.
If you've never heard PresidentHarrison talk about worship, he
(15:36):
makes it very clear.
You need to have the basictenets of a service an
invocation, a confession onabsolution, a singing of
appropriate hymns, songs, thereading of God's Word, the
proclamation of God's Word, acreed, the Lord's Prayer and
prayers and a benediction.
And I want you to know we'regoing to be having a committee
(16:00):
on chapel worship that willproduce what we call chapel
worship thesis.
That's headed up by Reverend DrDouglas Patel.
We will have a representativefrom every campus.
We will have three or fourboard members from CUS and then
constituents in the Synod.
And I promised him, doug and Iwere just together in St Louis.
This is going to be a projectthat might take a year and the
(16:23):
one thing we will not do, wewill not state that you have to
do this right.
You know we have hymn books, wehave synodically approved
worship materials that kind ofyou know, deal with the spectrum
.
I will say that I'm sure acomponent of what the thesis
will say is you need to usesynodically approved liturgical
(16:46):
things that have been kind ofvetted from a theological
perspective in terms of thecontent.
But I am yeah, I've heard thisone too that you know I'm going
to superimpose a specific andsole standard for every
university.
Let me just say, out of thefive universities, six campuses,
two of the universitiesspecifically already have kind
(17:09):
of a very liturgical vestedmatins, morning prayer type
stuff.
Three of the universities havea little bit more of just what I
described as a basic framework.
I think you know occasionallyyou're going to see things that
happen in chapel at ouruniversities that you might go.
Yeah, that's probably not thebest thing, but I do not believe
in my heart, I do not believewe have a worship problem on any
(17:32):
of our campuses, and that'swhere I'll leave it.
Have we had some issues on somecampuses, at some services.
Absolutely.
Have I been present physicallyat a chapel that went kind of
really off the rails?
Absolutely.
But do I think we have aproblem on our campuses in
(17:52):
chapel?
The answer is no, not at all.
I think our universitypresidents are very astute
theologians and when a problemarises they deal with it.
But yeah, so what we're goingto do is we're going to put
together a chapel thesis.
We're going to put those thesesout.
Do is we're going to puttogether a chapel thesis.
We're going to put those thesesout and we're going to let our
universities do what they dobest and that's witness to
Christ.
Let me just say Concordia StPaul has gotten a little bit of
(18:14):
heat recently because they hadan advertisement where they had
a woman with her hijab on whopeople are claiming that she's
Muslim.
She might be Muslim.
I can't say yes or no to that,but Concordia St Paul is in the
most diverse area really in thecountry, in a city that's a
sanctuary city, and they're themost diverse of all of our
(18:35):
Concordias in terms of thestudent population and they are
unabashedly Lutheran andunafraid to be Lutheran.
But that doesn't mean thatyou're not going to find issues
on campus.
We find a couple little things,but President Friedrichs is
outstanding and he is notashamed to stand up for what he
believes.
So no, look, please stop therumor mill on this one.
(18:58):
We're not going to have anedict or a dictate that you have
to do things this way or else.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, hey, on topics like this and this is just good
pastoral practice, I'd say froma leadership perspective, this
is an invitation.
So there's an invitation to usewhat we've agreed to use and to
be selective on songs that maynot have been written by folks
with our confession.
That's just wise.
Have you heard of the Song withour confession?
That's just wise.
Have you heard of theSongwriters Initiative?
That's kind of coming out ofCUI.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, look, this came up last week when we
were in Chicago with thepresidents, and I won't mention
which president.
Again, we got five great ones,but one of them made the point,
on the topic of chapel worshipthesis, that we have all these
great music departments.
I'll just speak to my highschool choir director, kurt Von
Kampen, who's at Nebraska.
(19:51):
One of the best musicians.
I know.
His son is the choir directorat St Paul and we have great
Lutheran musicians and theyshould be coming up with new
stuff.
And one of the presidentsbrought that to the attention of
the IAC, the Advisory Council,the presidents, and it's true we
(20:12):
want our universities to usetheir skill sets and to bring
that to the church.
But again, the only issue Iwould say there is that the
content of whatever the song isthat material and I think you'd
agree it ought to have passedthe theological muster.
And we leave that up to thepresidents and the process
that's in place for reviewingthat stuff with the campus
(20:35):
chaplains and the like.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, yeah, yeah for sure.
And we're singing some of thesesongwriter initiatives I'll
tell you what, brother, youprobably haven't heard them all
yet.
They are super cross-focused,super narrative of God's love,
baptismal identity really,really good for the church and
(20:57):
we, finally, if we're going tohave some churches that are
singing, I'd rather I'll justthrow it out right now.
I would be great.
Matt Preston picks songs andI'd rather I'll just throw it
out right now.
I would be great.
Matt Preston picks songs and Isee him.
He's one of our church workershere in our awesome congregation
.
I would be great if we didn'tever sing Bethel or Hillsong
again.
I'm just throwing it out there.
I think we're past that and wecan write a lot.
(21:19):
We can do better and we areworking to solve that problem.
So, all right, let's get to itFrom your perspective, what
happened at Ann Arbor, and soI'm just going to throw it over
to you.
You've got some data that a lotof people may not know and
another preface to this there'sso much emotion in this, and my
(21:45):
hope in this last conversationis that, as I've said many times
at funerals, we grieve.
We grieve with great hope forwhat the Lord wants to do and it
is a death.
It is a funeral type of a griefthat we're just kind of
processing and so sometimes theemotions and even the
accusations there may be sliversof kind of truth.
(22:06):
But you may not know all of thedata and we're just trying to
work it out and grief is messy,right, there's no like.
This is the way we do it and soI think as a church body we're
just grieving and hoping to movepast the grieving time with a
little more clarity today in ourconversation.
So, from your perspective, whathappened?
How could things have turnedout differently?
(22:27):
And give us a better take onthe financials, dr Hardy?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, well, thank you .
Let me just first say this, andI want to acknowledge
unequivocally that sinceFebruary of 2024, there has been
a lot of heartache, there hasbeen a lot of pain and I think,
Tim, one thing I just want toshare is the pain that we hear
about are the people connecteddirectly with Ann Arbor the
(22:55):
parents, the students, thefaculty and staff.
But I want you to knowsomething else.
There is pain also on the otherside of the coin.
There is pain in theadministration with Eric
Ankerberg.
There is pain at the ConcordiaUniversity of Wisconsin-Ann
Arbor Regents who have had tomake choices that cause people
to lose jobs, cause thedownsizing.
(23:16):
But I want to be very clearbecause the narrative that I
continue to hear drives mereally insane.
Concordia, ann Arbor, a campusof Wisconsin, is not closing and
and I want that, that I know assoon as I say that whenever you
put this out on the web.
But you know that there's gonnabe people on congregations
(23:37):
matters or Concordia matters,I'm sorry, and they're gonna
hammer me and they're gonna saythat it's effectively a closure
or what we've done iseffectively close it.
And yet I have been in everyregent meeting, less one over
the last seven years.
Okay, every regent meeting.
So I want, tim, I want you toknow this I have watched the
(23:57):
board turnover at the lastconvention cycle.
We have several new members onthe current board that have only
come on since the lastconvention cycle, and I've said
this in other forums.
I had the pleasure of speakingto the Michigan District Board
of Directors.
I thank Dave Davis.
I know he is trying really hardto be evangelical about this.
(24:18):
He's a brother of mine on thecouncil for many years and I
know he's in a very tough spot.
He let me speak to the MichiganDistrict Board of Directors and
I said this there as well verytough spot.
He let me speak to the MichiganDistrict Board of Directors and
I said this there as well.
These are good people on theCUWAA Board of Regents that want
what's best for the church andfor the gospel and yet they're
being maligned, they're beingraked over the coals.
Eric Ankerberg is being totallyand completely destroyed
(24:43):
publicly because of theemotional side.
I've been in the meetings, tim,and I can speak with authority
and say this never once, neveronce, have I heard anything at a
meeting that has anything to dowith what's best other than
what's best for the university,the campus in Ann Arbor and the
gospel witness.
And number two, what I would saytwice as many cuts were made
(25:09):
for last fiscal year ending June30th on the Wisconsin campus
than was made on the Ann Arborcampus.
And nobody wants to talk aboutthis.
Okay, everybody wants to focuson Ann Arbor, but the truth of
the matter is twice as manyemployees, faculty and staff
lost their job at Wisconsin inthe rifts that took place and
(25:31):
I'm not minimizing anything thathappened on the Ann Arbor
campus.
I'm simply sharing with youthat it's not an isolated
incident.
Eric Ankerberg and the regentshad to make very tough changes
and so let me go into somenumbers.
Let me share with you somenumbers and, by the way, for
(26:07):
anybody paying attention to yearactual $8,886,140 loss.
Now, tim, let me repeat that$8,886,140 loss in the
operations side of theuniversity, the big loss.
(26:29):
Let me give you the specificcampus numbers for 2023.
For Mequon campus $4,159,364loss operational loss.
The Ann Arbor campus last year$4,820,155 operational loss.
(26:51):
The Ann Arbor campus last year4,820,155 operational loss.
Okay, so last year, or this yearin February, when all this took
place, the Board of Regents metwith President Ankerberg, as
you well know, we had thisdirect process to look at how to
write this ship.
Many rifts were introduced onthe Mequon campus and on the Ann
(27:12):
Arbor campus.
Those all took place like May31st.
Those all kind of kicked in.
So, before the June 30th fiscalyear end for Mequon, I'm going
to give you the numbers for theactual year end consolidated
financials.
I'm going to give you thenumbers for the actual year end
consolidated financials and Iknow you pay attention.
A lot of people have been onConcordia Matters saying CUAA
(27:50):
was $50701 in the black.
That's corporation-wide.
Here's the black.
The Ann Arbor campus was$1,953,826 in the red.
(28:16):
That comes out under theoperational line with $44,701 in
the black.
So let's just take one quickdeep breath, try to set the
emotions aside.
After all the changes that wereannounced already this year and
that'll take place, the AnnArbor campus lost $2 million
(28:38):
last fiscal year.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So please, to everybody paying attention to
this.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
please stop saying there is not a financial reason
why this has occurred Now.
The good news, however, is thatthe Lord has been gracious.
You're going to get people outthere saying well, there's a
tremendous market gain in theendowment.
That is a true statement.
What's not true is the exactsame thing could have occurred
(29:05):
on the other end of investing,which is a co-equal loss in the
endowment.
And so, please understand, cuwaaBoard of Regents is paying
attention to the operation line,and I know you had my good
friend, my mentor and teacher,pat Farian, back in February.
He talked about the mix ofusing endowment monies and
that's all true, but the Boardof Regents at CUWAA, along with
(29:30):
President Ankerberg, have madethe decision to focus on making
the operations positive and notlosing money.
And so, when I just shared withyou those numbers, if CUW did
not have the Ann Arbor campus,it would have been roughly $2
million in the black.
But the good news is, as asingle university, the
(29:52):
university ended up $44,701 inthe black because the difficulty
in Ann Arbor was offset by thepositive response in Mequon and
because we are one universitywith two campuses.
That, tim, is good news.
That doesn't mitigate all thechanges that are going on in the
Ann Arbor campus.
That doesn't mitigate theyet-to-happen rifts.
(30:14):
That doesn't mitigate thesports going away.
I fully understand that.
That's heart-wrenching.
I have a family at my owncongregation whose child plays
sports at Ann Arbor who has tofind a new university.
Own congregation whose childplays sports at Ann Arbor who
has to find a new university.
That's a real issue.
Mom was in my office.
Emotions flew.
I understand this.
I'm a Michigan boy and I knowI've been criticized on
(30:39):
Concordia Matters.
How come Hardy's not doing moreabout this?
How come Harrison is not doingmore about this?
The truth is the Board ofRegents is carrying out their
fiduciary duty and I believethey're doing the best that they
can.
President Ankerberg has donenothing in my presence other
than speak well of and do hisbest to mitigate what's going on
.
Tomorrow he will go to theBoard of Directors of Synod with
(31:03):
a request for some action itemsthat the BOD of Synod can
approve that would affect theAnn Arbor campus.
Again, let me say this, tim,there is no desire to outrightly
close the Ann Arbor campus bythe Board of Regents.
On the last Thursday region,when we met last Thursday, there
was not a single word aboutclosing that campus.
(31:25):
There is a consolidationthey're looking at to the North
Building.
I think everybody knows thatthe health care programs are
going to be completely kept.
I have made it very clear toPresident Ankerberg.
We've had many, manyconversations.
He has talked about a one-yearhiatus for church work and then
come back and, believe me, I'mgoing to hold his feet to the
(31:46):
fire on that.
The CUS board is paying veryclose attention to this because
the centerpiece of our ConcordiaUniversity system is church
work preparation, and if wedon't have church work
preparation there, I have aconcern about that right.
So again I want to be clear.
They're taking a year off,starting next academic year, but
(32:06):
he has assured me that theintention is to bring church
work preparation back.
All right good.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So I mean, that's a lot of information.
It is Let me follow up and thankyou for that.
I think it's the specifics thatmany people may not quite be
aware of, aware of.
(32:32):
So, first off, the district,the Michigan district, tried to
respond to meet the short-termneed and you know, some people
feel like their gift and theireffort was kind of roundly
rebuffed, and I'm sure that'snot exactly true.
The way I kind of make sense ofit is like well, it's good for
now, but we've got a systemic,longer range operational problem
, that this is a very smallbandaid on a very large wound.
(32:58):
Is that a fair understanding ofwhy the district's attempt
wasn't maybe roundly considered?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah.
So let me clearly articulatethat situation, because I've
watched and listened to thefolks that you've had on about
that.
Number one in February, when CFOKali did their evaluation and
President Ankerberg presented itto the Board of Regents and
there was a red flag offinancials.
The Board of Directorsestablished four committees.
(33:24):
I was chair At that time.
I wasn't CUS president, I wasjust a member.
I was chair of the accred fourcommittees.
I was chair At that time.
I wasn't CUS president, I wasjust a member.
I was chair of theaccreditation piece.
There was a legal piece, therewas a finance piece and there
was properties or I forget thefourth one, but forgive me for
that.
But here's the deal.
The chairman of the board ofdirectors, john Berg, said to
Dave Davis go and get a Michiganplan, because Dave kept asking
(33:50):
well, is there an alternative?
So the board said to Dave Davisgo do a plan.
So he got a bunch of peopletogether some you've had on your
show and they produced aMichigan plan and presented it
to the Board of Regents.
The Board of Regents, its Junemeeting, had one decision to
make and that decision was canConcordia, ann Arbor, be
(34:13):
returned to its independence asa university and then the
Michigan plan would have beenable to quote unquote be put
into action.
Okay, so the Michigan plan hadto be set aside until the
university determined whether ornot Ann Arbor could be
independent.
And let me just give you mycommittee I chaired HLC Higher
(34:34):
Learning Commission.
There was no accreditation pathfor Concordia Ann Arbor to
receive accreditation on its own.
If we just cut it off and setit aside and I won't go into all
the specifics Somebody is goingto say, well, there would have
been a path.
The path would have been verylong and not allowed for
complete independence right offthe bat.
Okay, so the point is theycould have not have been severed
(34:57):
and been made independent andthen gotten accreditation.
So let's just start there.
I looked at the Michigan plan.
I think you know I have alittle bit of a background in
finance.
I have a doctorate in thisstuff.
They had, as a part of theirplan, annually raising $10
million in fund development.
That's a lot.
Now just follow with me for asecond.
(35:19):
They have not hit $10 millionon the Ann Arbor campus
separately and solely in termsof fund development.
You know I'm talking aboutgifts and bequests.
Yeah, since Mequon took it over, I applaud their desire to do
that.
So when they say their plan wasroundly and completely dismissed
(35:42):
, it had pieces within it thatsimply were great desires, great
hopes, great faith that itwould happen.
But I'm just here to tell youthat wasn't what the CUWA Board
of Regents was voting on.
They were voting on whether ornot it could be independent.
(36:03):
And so when they made theirdecision in June that they
couldn't be independent becauseof all these reasons
accreditation, legal, blah, blah, blah that was not a rejection
of the Michigan plan, it was arejection of that university's
campus could not be independent.
Thus it couldn't even institutethe Michigan's plan.
Now the other thing I would saythey raised what was it?
(36:25):
$3.75 million in pledges, yeah,and you know there was this
whole to-do and I think theregents at Mequon bear
responsibility a little bit inthis that that money was
rejected.
Let me be clear that money wasnever outrightly offered to
CUWAA and if anybody says to youit was, I assure you again I
(36:50):
was in the room, tim, I've beenin every meeting less one it
never was offered, as here's thegifts and bequests, here's the
pledges, save Ann Arbor.
Never was that offered.
In fact, what I need you toknow is it was absolutely
articulated and I won't make anynames, call anybody out but it
(37:10):
was absolutely articulated thatif any closures happen, any
reduction on the Ann Arborcampus happens, or if the plan
that the CUWAA regents came upwith wasn't satisfactory to the
Michigan District or its boardof directors, there would be no
money.
That was said, okay, and so I'mactually.
(37:31):
Look, I give Dave Davis and theMichigan District kudos for
raising 3.75 million in eightdays.
I can't tell you how happy andthrilled I am, but I'll tell you
this I think if they would havesimply outrightly given that
money right away, there couldhave possibly I'm not saying
will, but there could havepossibly been a little bit more
(37:51):
of an extension to not have todo what they've done this year.
We might have gotten a secondyear to try to make things work.
But hearing that they were$1.95 million in the hole in
operations in this last fiscalyear, that $3.75 could have
wiped that away in operations,you understand my point.
So this accusation that CUWAABoard of Regents rejected that
(38:14):
money, that is not a totallytrue statement.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
And so Let me just push into that a bit.
It's because and the lastquestion I sent you, brother, is
Satan's had a heyday insituations like this in dividing
us, and what does he want to do?
He wants to steal, kill,destroy trust in relationship.
(38:39):
And so the reason that's not,they don't, they didn't because
of the communication struggles.
This is again I'm 2,000 milesaway from this whole thing,
right, but it's justcommunication missteps at
various points where peopleneeded to be in the room to draw
together.
This is what I do in leadingthe local church, this is what
(39:00):
you have to do.
You, you're negotiating.
Here's reality, and how are wegoing to come together as one?
And I think geography, to adegree, kind of got the best of
us in this situation as well.
You know, absence does notalways make the heart grow
fonder, right Absence, you putthe worst construction on
absence, and so that's why therewas a little bit of reticence.
Well, we've raised this.
Are we going to get what weneed?
(39:21):
And at a very human level, youcan understand why that would be
their case.
It was a dampening of trust,and that is very unfortunate.
Any take there, though, drHardy.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, look, I hear you completely.
Let me just say Dave Davis andI had many conversations about
this.
Again, I applaud him for whathe did.
I understand the position he'sin.
I am not throwing stones when Isaid that.
Okay, I'm not.
Let me also be on the recordhere.
I spoke to the Council ofPresidents last week and the
presidents of the universitieswere there and I made this
(39:55):
statement and I'll make it herebecause I believe it, the CUWAA
Board of Regents understandsthat they could have done a
better job communicating.
President Ankerberg has made itclear that he could have done a
better job communicating.
President Ankerberg has made itclear that he could have done a
better job communicating.
I will tell you and if anybodytries to go on Concordia Matters
(40:16):
and twist my words here, I wantyou to hear me clearly I am not
happy that this has occurred.
I am not joyful that we are inthis position.
I wish we could have avoidedthis altogether.
I'm an athlete, I'm a footballplayer, I'm a wrestler.
(40:36):
I don't want to see sports goaway.
I mean you know, but I alsoknow from a corporate
perspective.
We can't keep losing millionsof dollars.
And again, all due respect toPat Ferry and his administration
today is not the sameenvironment that he had right.
(40:57):
And so he had a process, aprogram.
He had Al Prochnow as the CFO,who I have great respect for.
I mean, al, 20 years with Pat,did a wonderful job moving that
university forward.
But I also have talked to otherpeople and I was in the
meetings, tim you know, everytime we would get communicated
to, even when my friend Pat wasthere as the president.
(41:20):
We're going to add this program, we're going to add this
athletic program, we're going toadd this academic program and
there's going to be a tippingpoint at which those things
start to produce.
And I still believe the healthcare is going to get to that
point where it tips over andit's going to start producing.
I'm a believer, I'm a hopefulbeliever, that that likely will
happen.
But in the meantime we cannotcontinue to just look at
(41:44):
operations and accept the losses, and that's what I think
President Ankerberg has made hisstand.
Now.
Let's be clear If you talk tomy college classmate and friend,
dr Bull at Nebraska, he willtell you, as Pat told you on
your show, that they live off ofa different model than what
Eric is doing in Mequon.
That doesn't mean that eitherof those models are right or
(42:06):
wrong.
It's the model that thatleadership has decided to go for
.
I'll go on the record and saythis.
I've told this to thepresidents in our meetings, and
one of them in particular, myfriend Bernard.
He lovingly disagrees with me.
I am the business leader thatwill say I want positive
operations.
Now, I'm going to getcriticized for that and I'm
(42:28):
going to be told that that's nothow higher ed works.
But if you go on websites andjournals like the Chronicle of
Higher Education, you will seethat this battle between net
neutral operations, positiveoperations and then bottom line
numbers with foundation and allthat other stuff this argument
is not unique to the ConcordiaUniversity system.
(42:49):
Okay, so the fact that we havedifferent opinions, the fact
that my friend Pat Ferry wouldsay this is how we've always run
it and the fact that Eric saysthis is how I want to run it,
they're not in.
They're not in conflict witheach other.
They're simply different styles, and I want that to be
understood, because what'shappening is people are taking a
side of a equal coin with twodifferent viewpoints and they're
(43:12):
calling the other side wrong.
And I want to be clear I don'tview it that way.
I'm not saying they're wrong.
What I'm saying is this is howI view business right, because
here's the deal.
I teach portfolio management atCUW in the DBA school and the
bottom line is investments in afoundation are going to be up.
(43:33):
They're going to be down and agood investor is not going to
get emotional when they're up.
You don't get emotional.
When they're down, you don'tget emotional.
But the problem is you can'tcontrol market performance.
So what can you control?
The only thing you control isoperations.
You can't control bequests.
You can't control gifts.
You can work hard to get those,but you can't control them.
(43:54):
But you can control operationsand I know you're a theologian,
tim.
What does the Bible say aboutwhat you can do?
You worry and control about thethings you have been trusted
with God to control and that'sall you do.
And you work within theframework of that which you have
.
And remember the parable of thevineyard.
What does the master say to theworkers that worked all day and
(44:16):
they complained about the onewho worked one hour?
The master says is it not mineto give?
And so the parable of thetalons in Matthew 25, the Bible
says they were given what theywere able to manage.
So my whole point here is thisthose two different philosophies
I do not think are incombativeness to each other, and
(44:37):
Eric is the president right nowand this is how he views it.
And again, you don't have toagree with him.
In fact, I've said thispublicly.
I don't expect everyone toagree with him.
In fact, I've said thispublicly.
I don't expect everyone toagree with him.
But they do have to respect thefact that it's the way he wants
to do it, in the way that theregions have decided to do it,
and that's what they're doing,and they're doing it with godly
intentions and intentions to dowhat's best for the gospel.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Hey, I respect it.
This is an area of adiaphora,as I've said in a number of
podcasts.
Right, I mean there's no solidway you can use an endowment.
For me, I would feeluncomfortable if 50% or even
(45:22):
like 15% of our yearly $8million church and school budget
were taken care of by theperformance of an endowment like
that.
So I get that.
It's just a change ofphilosophy.
Dr Ferry had a different view ofthe endowment.
It was a different day.
I mean, everything's brand new.
This is an entrepreneurialventure.
(45:43):
We'd not seen two Concordiasmerge before.
So I understand how he wouldsay you know, we were making a
larger investment into ourendowment, we were taking on
some risk to see if we couldn'tsustain a Concordia Ann Arbor,
and God bless them, they, theydid, it worked and then and then
you have a new president andhe's got a different perspective
and the markets changed and andhe's not comfortable with that
(46:05):
sort of risk for two years.
So I get it from a leadershipperspective, from a business
perspective, I get it.
The hard thing was it justhurts people and at the end my
under overriding emotion in thewhole story.
I'm not angry.
This was tough, I think, asI've talked to a lot whole story
(46:25):
.
I'm not angry.
This was tough.
I think, as I've talked to alot of people.
We're just sad.
We're just sad that it got tothis point.
Right, that's it.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And I want to acknowledge that.
I mean I'm the president of theConcordia University System,
previously bishop of the Englishdistrict, so I have a very
significant outlook on thechurch from a district's
perspective and now from theConcordia University System's
perspective.
I am sad overall for the churchthat this campus of CUWAA is
(46:56):
dealing with what it's dealing,but I want to give you some good
news for the future.
Let's go thing that the Boardof Regents talked about on
Thursday in the plan that'sgoing to the Board of Directors
has with it a outlook forsustainability in the near term
and growth in the long term.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And again.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
I know that will not please many people on Concordia
Matters, I know that, but in myheart I can put my head on the
pillow and I can say thanks.
Be to God that Eric Ankerberg,john Berg, the chairman of the
board, and the entire board isfocused on trying to fortify
that campus.
Eric said, president Ankerbergsaid at the regents in open
(47:37):
session we need to maintain apresence in Ann Arbor.
You heard me say at thebeginning of this podcast we're
looking for deserts where we'renot at, where we can put
campuses or satellites.
I have not heard a single wordout work to that campus and
anybody that would say anythingelse about Hardy or Reverend
(48:09):
Harris and our president ofsynod that they don't want that
there.
Tim, you can correct them.
That's an outright lie.
Got it, got it.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
So is there.
You know, I think people wouldwant to know.
I think people would want toknow, Dr Hardy.
I mean, could athletics at somepoint if it made sense like
return in some way, shape orform to Concordia, Ann Arbor, I
don't know look, so I'm notpresident of CUW AA so.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I'll answer that with what I hope and I pray as a as
the first captain of the CUWwrestling team and in a hall of
fame member at CUW.
I hope that athletics can comeback there at some point.
Um, I I can't promise itbecause I don't know what the
future will hold.
I think the short-term plandoes have us fortifying the
(48:52):
university campus there.
I think the short-term plan hasa certain part of growth on the
North Campus, without a doubt.
I want to say this I am not asupporter or a desire that's not
my desire to see us liquidatethat South Campus, the main
campus.
So you know, I mean, is it outthere as a possibility?
(49:14):
Tim, there is a possibilitythat there's a scenario.
It's not something I want to do.
The Board of Directors ismeeting tomorrow with the
opportunity to have somedecision-making power into this.
Let me also say this PresidentAnkerberg was very clear in open
session.
He announced that the board ofregents has a desire to carve
(49:36):
out I believe it's 10 acreswhere the Michigan district's
office is and give that to theMichigan district so that that's
permanently their property.
That was talked about in opensession last Thursday.
So I mean, I again I guess whatI want to finalize this whole
kind of topic is I understandthe emotional side.
(49:57):
I have people I went to gradeschool with on the board of
directors of Michigan district.
I have people I went to highschool with who are on Concordia
Matters.
You know, making all thesegrandiose claims about how
horrible I am and how horriblePresident Harrison is, and I
understand, because their kidsare going to school there.
I try to be charitable and Itry not to defend myself or
(50:21):
Harrison publicly there becauseI know that the emotional side
of it is just going to continueto blow up.
But I want you to know I have apastor's heart.
President Harrison has apastor's heart.
I read President Harrison'sletter to the Board of Regents
in which he said I want you tokeep as much as you can.
That's sustainable.
That was his words.
You probably saw the letter.
It leaked out into Concordia.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Matters.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
I read that in June to the Board of Regents.
So I can tell you withcertainty that President
Harrison wants nothing butgrowth and a lot of positive
stuff, and I shared with you thenumbers of all the church
workers for the system to letyou know that the church is
going to prevail.
Look, I'm a competitor.
You know me a little bit, tim.
(51:04):
I don't like to lose, I don'tlike to be behind the eight ball
.
We are going to fight like theDickens to bring the CUS system
and our universities to the topof the heap, partly because I
believe that we belong there,because we have a great thing to
offer the world and the churchand because this is what we do
we educate, we teach and weprepare.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yes, Dr Hardy thank you for reaching out to me, and
I hope that this brings someclarity, and it's just because I
was misinformed.
Sometimes we're just trying todo our thing local and you hear
different things, and so here'sthe overall focus of this
podcast.
Man is where there is division,where there's confusion, where
Satan is having a heyday.
(51:59):
We need to look face to faceand we're using technology,
we're still face-to-face man.
We need to look face-to-face toone another and honestly say I
have heard this or I've heardyou say this or do this, or even
think or insinuate this.
Is that true?
And if it's not true, I confess.
If I have misspoken toward anindividual, I'll always say
(52:25):
being the president of Synod orthe president of CUS, this is a
hard thing.
Being a pastor at a local levelit's a hard thing.
It's pick up your cross andfollow after Jesus.
And so where I get excited andpassionate is when I don't see
the church operating in achurchly fashion, meaning
putting the best construction onsomething until you get other
(52:47):
information.
And the beauty of long-formpodcasts today, dr Hardy, is we
get to have longer-formconversations where tone matters
.
Tone matters for sure and theheart.
You actually know the personand we're seeking to build
bridges of understanding tohopefully rebuild trust where
(53:07):
trust has been damaged, so thatwe can unite in the mission man.
The world needs the theology ofthe Lutheran Church Missouri
Synod and the theologians, theacademics that are seeking to
give that into the hearts andears of teachers and DCEs and
administrators and pastors andworship leaders, et cetera, like
we.
We need to come together as achurch body and and may it not
(53:30):
be said that this ConcordiaUniversity, ann Arbor situation
just served as the next step inleading us toward whatever,
whatever could come in thefuture we I am not okay, now you
get me going I am not fordivision in any form in the
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.
Now, I am for having clarifyingconversations around what we're
(53:52):
united around.
But if anybody thinks the ULCis about, oh, it's just a next
step in some sort of a coup toget out of like that is the
furthest thing we want to be apart of man.
Okay, I am a Concordia guy, I'man LCMS guy, I'm a third
generation guy, I am you, we areus and we're doing this
together.
And it's unprecedented times ina post-Christian, secular day
(54:12):
and age in which we live.
Our contexts are remarkablydiverse.
We need to listen twice as muchas we speak and we need to put
the best construction oneverything.
So thanks for allowing me evento I don't think I've been that
that pointed in any podcast.
I have no ulterior motive, justlike you don't have any
ulterior motive to destroy theConcordia system right?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
No, no.
And please let me just sayfinally this for anybody who's
paying attention, especially forthose folks on Concordia
Matters where the emotions arejust raw and running wild my
phone is open.
My email is open.
I'll talk to anybody about this.
I'll listen to you.
I'm a pastor at heart.
If I've offended in any way inhow I've led, please accept my
(54:55):
apology.
I am like Tim.
I'm very passionate about whatmy church is doing.
We are not seeking to do harm.
We are seeking to be the beststewards of the resources God
has given to us, and I can saythat on behalf of President
Ankerberg, I can say that onbehalf of John Berg, the
president of the board, I cansay that on behalf of CUS and I
(55:16):
can say that on behalf ofPresident Harrison.
We are simply seeking to do thebest thing we can do for the
sake of the gospel and be goodstewards at it.
So where somebody has been hurtor offended, I'm sorry.
We are here to lift each otherup.
We're here to support eachother, we're not here to destroy
.
And so please, when you thinkabout starting to type some
(55:37):
vicious accusation, before youdo it, give me a call.
Talk to me first Give me anopportunity to actually tell you
what I think, before you go onConcordia Matters and tell
everybody what I think, becauseyou really don't know what I
think.
I want to grow the system.
I don't want to shut it down.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Let's go.
All right, let's go.
Concordia.
More of them, more kids on ourcampuses hearing the gospel of
Jesus Christ and being mobilizedin multiple vocations to be
salt and light in a dark anddying world.
This is lead time.
Sharing is caring, like,subscribe, comment wherever it
is you take in these podcastsand we promise to have more,
hopefully, joy-filled,truth-filled conversations, just
(56:18):
like the one we had withReverend Dr Jameson Hardy.
Thanks, brother, for your timeand for bringing a different
slant to this hard time thatwe've walked through.
But we're grieving with hope,moving forward, centered on
Jesus.
It's a good day.
Go make it a great day.
Thanks, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
All right.
Welcome to Lead Time.
I hope the joy of Jesus is withyou today.
As I'm going to say before Iintroduce my guest, I am praying
.
I'm praying for peace, I'mpraying for joy, I'm praying for
unity, I'm praying for theright, now that this is the last
(00:23):
of the I don't know four orfive conversations I'm going to
have on the Concordia UniversityAnn Arbor conversation, and
it's an honor to have ReverendDr Jameson Hardy with me.
Before we get, though, intoeverything the beauty and the
struggle of the Concordia AnnArbor struggle, could you just
(00:44):
say, say, as a president of theConcordia University system,
tell us something good.
We want to know something goodabout our Concordia's because
there's a lot to share.
How are you doing, dr Hardy?
Thank you for being on leadtime with me, brother.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Great Tim.
Thanks for having me.
It's a privilege and it's a joyto be with you, and I thank God
for what you do.
My friend, I really doappreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, it's an honor and just praying for more unity
and transparency in our churchbody, and I think that's what
we're going to get today.
But what is the president ofthe CUS in your new role?
Now?
Tell us a little bit about thatand how you're interacting with
all of the Concordias that andhow you're interacting with all
(01:27):
of the Concordias.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, thanks.
So let me just start with theconvention of 2023 and the
change with 704B, the resolution704B, which changed CUS quite
drastically.
Actually, I chaired that floorcommittee on 704B and then
subsequently, that floorcommittee on 704B and then
(01:48):
subsequently completely notconnected was elected president
of CUS and took that call.
So CUS is more todayecclesiastical in nature than it
was previously.
Previously it had property.
It had encumbrance of property,loans, sale of property,
budgets, master plans.
That's all now on the LCMSboard of directors which, by the
(02:10):
way, they're going to bemeeting tomorrow, friday the
22nd, and they're going to beconsidering two different
Concordia University masterplans and the like.
That used to be CUS, that usedto be Dr Wenthy and CUS.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So, today.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Predominantly what I do is we support our
universities, their work.
We carry out Synod's LIMOsLutheran Identity and Mission
Outcome Standards.
And let me just say this aboutthe LIMOs the LIMOs are
absolutely not some kind ofLutheran purity standard.
My vice president, reverend DrDouglas Patel, likes to talk
(02:47):
about the Limos as kind of aroadmap or a guide to help our
universities navigate what isgoing on.
And here's some good news and Ireally want this to be clearly
heard we have five greatpresidents and we have five
great universities with sixcampuses that overall are doing
(03:08):
very well and I want that to beheard clearly.
I know a lot of people aregoing to.
We'll talk about the Ann Arborsituation, but I want you to
know we've just completed, as oflast week or two weeks ago,
sorry all the informal visits toall five of our universities,
and I'm sorry, all the informalvisits to all five of our
universities and I'm just goingto say this Every visit we had
(03:29):
was good.
There's a lot of wonderfulthings to celebrate in our
Concordia University system.
There's a lot of great thingsgoing on in our campuses.
You have Irvine just got acouple big grants.
You have St Paul was just namedthe second largest private
college in the state ofMinnesota.
They just expanded St Paul didinto Denver with the nursing
(03:53):
program.
They continue to carry onPortland's nursing program.
Nebraska has had some greatstuff going on there.
Russell Dawn in Chicago we justwere there last week with the
Council of Presidents and thatuniversity has got a lot of
great things going on.
They all have different greatthings going on, but they share
one thing in common and that isa clear, concise confession of
(04:15):
Jesus Christ, the Son of God,the Savior of the world.
And I just I tell you, everytime I'm on campus I marvel I've
had a chance to eat with andmeet with students and it's been
just outstanding.
It's been outstanding.
Give me a couple of numbers 802total church workers in the
system right now.
(04:36):
That's pre-seminary, that'steacher ed, that's all of it Now
.
I would love for that to belots more, but I take great joy
in being able to tell you wehave 802 church work students in
the entire system.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Is that growing?
This is great, I love that.
Is that growing?
Uh, I, I think it is, but atwhat kind of a rate?
Are we seeing growth in all ofthose church worker programs
that people really love to hearthat?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
St Paul.
St Paul is in its 12th yearoverall of growth as a
university and this is thehighest year that it's grown.
The largest church work programit's had Seward and Mequon.
They continue to fight withover 200.
Seward's got 240, over 240students, and so Seward and
(05:20):
Mequon are always in thisbeautiful.
I think it's a good competitionon this of the number of church
workers.
Concordia Irvine is doingfantastic, along with Concordia
Chicago, and so I think they allwant more church workers.
And one of the things we'redoing in CUS this year, Douglas
Patel, my VP, and I, or boardmembers of CUS, will be at every
(05:42):
district convention.
Board members of CUS will be atevery district convention and a
lot of the district presidentshave already given us 10 or 15
minutes to speak.
Because I want to address theconventions, I'm scheduled to be
at 20 of the 35 districtconventions myself.
We will also be speaking at theNational Youth Gathering and at
Higher Things gatherings andanybody else out there that
would like to have us come andtalk about the CUS and about our
(06:04):
schools.
I'd love to because we need togrow that program.
But I want to say this All ofthe universities are focused on
offering the highest qualitychurch work preparation they can
, and so I don't care whetheryou go to Irvine, Mequon, St
Paul, Nebraska or Chicago.
We got great programs, greatpresidents and great
(06:24):
universities.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Paul, nebraska or Chicago.
We got great programs, greatpresidents and great
universities.
Well, that's so good to hear,and I got three kids, who are
all prayerfully.
I got three high schoolers rightnow Jameson and my son.
He's a sophomore highlyconsidering Nebraska and St Paul
Not the other schools are there, but he's he's interested in
(06:47):
playing, playing football inthose programs.
So so we'll see what the Lorddoes.
I'd love for you to.
You know I I get, for whateverreason, because I talked to a
lot of people.
God made me like, he made methat like I just love hanging
out with people from alldifferent types of perspectives.
And so there are various rumorsthat you kind of hear and rumors
, you know, perception isreality for that person.
(07:11):
But our perception cansometimes be maybe misguided or
we can lean too far into arespective rumor.
And now one rumor I've heard isthat, again, just because I
hear, I'm not I'm not talkingabout this at all but is the
LCMS org and CUS narrowing down,narrowing down and this kind of
moves us into the Ann Arbor,like we'd like to get rid of
(07:33):
institutions so that we can kindof make sure we can purify
doctrine and all of thetheological content.
And maybe we're on a pathtoward narrowing all the way
down.
I'm just going to throw out auniversity all the way down to
Concordia, nebraska, and so wecan kind of have control of what
God is doing in theuniversities.
I've heard that narrative.
Please dismiss it, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Well, not only will I dismiss it, let me be very
clear.
That is absolutely positivelyin contradiction to what
President Harrison has asked meto do, and that is actually to
grow the Concordia Universitysystem.
I have a lot on my plate whenit comes to this and again,
(08:15):
thanks for previously having meon with my book on pastoral
leadership.
But, as you know, I have abusiness background and I have a
business of human and my desireis to grow the CUS, not shrink
it.
And let me be clear, I knowthere's a lot of rumors out
there on the web and Concordiamatters with the Ann Arbor
situation.
I've had some people I went tohigh school with even say this
(08:37):
that Jameson Hardy is, you know,matt Harrison's handpicked man
to shrink the system down to thepurified hole.
And that is a lie.
That is not only a lie, it isan egregious violation of the
Eighth Commandment.
I want to grow the ConcordiaUniversity system.
We've lost three universitiesand you know I'm thankful.
(08:59):
I can say to you with joy acouple.
Well, about a month ago I had aconversation with Don Christian
about Texas.
I've actually asked if I couldcome down and visit CTX, even
though the Synod remember CUS isnot a part of that lawsuit.
The Synod is in communicationand they're trying to work
things out with CTX.
(09:19):
But I want to get CTX back inthe fold.
I've had conversations withdistrict presidents and
university presidents aboutsatellite campuses.
One of them I can say we'relooking at possibly one in
Florida.
We're looking at possibly onein the Northeast, in the central
Northeast.
We realize that there arepockets in the United States
(09:39):
where there's a void of apresence, of a higher education
for Lutheran church and myintention God willing our
presidents have been receptiveof this is try to look at
satellite campuses where wemight just do church work,
preparation in one area ornursing, like St Paul is doing
in Denver.
But please understand, I wantto grow the system.
(10:03):
I want nothing to do withreducing it.
Number two as you well know, Iwas a finalist before Eric was
chosen to be president at CUWand I told people I have a very
strong emphasis on vocationaltraining.
My son, nathaniel, went toMequon for a short time but is
down in Indianapolis studying tobe a diesel mechanic for a
(10:24):
short time but is down inIndianapolis studying to be a
diesel mechanic.
We are missing about 40 to 60%of our students that go to
vocational training, that I'vetalked to the presidents about
considering making a Lutheranvo-tech a Lutheran vocational,
and if they attach it to one ofour universities, these young
people can have a universityexperience, play sports, have
the chapel, you know, and be ina partnership with a local votex
(10:46):
.
So, yeah, not only do I want todispel that rumor, I would hope
and appreciate you and youraudience would actively speak
against anyone who would saythat President Harrison,
specifically, or this guy, isseeking to do anything but grow
the university system.
We need more than less, and soI will not, frankly, be
(11:10):
satisfied until we do expand.
We've lost three of ouruniversities to closure, and
each one of them are different,and, of course, the current
situation with Texas, which isunfortunate.
But I do believe in my heartthat, and I mean this.
I believe in my heart that wewill be able to reconcile that,
and I pray God often that, and Imean this.
I believe in my heart that wewill be able to reconcile that,
and I pray God often that Texascan come back into the fold.
So, yeah, I am not aboutclosure, I'm not about shrinking
(11:33):
.
Our universities are Lutheran,they're faithful, and that's
what I'll say to anybody.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And I can say it, tim , firsthand yeah, I know, I know
, I know, hey one, I believe youand I am not that you need my
belief, but I, I endorse thegrowth trajectory of CUS A
hundred percent.
I mean those ideas that youjust threw out so good.
It makes me actually superjacked up.
I'm super excited about whatthe Lord could do because I see,
(12:04):
I see the next gen man.
I'm in the trenches right nowof ministry three high schoolers
myself.
It's like what are we doing inthat formative time?
It's so huge and our schools,nothing against Lutheran
classical college.
I was going to talk about thata bit too.
I think it takes all kinds toreach all kinds.
I think it's an open market andcompetition is good and we have
(12:26):
the same confession and it'swonderful.
But going to our Concordia isan entirely different experience
and they do have a missionorientation and we do welcome
people from outside.
But we will not compromise ourtheology.
It's just like our K-8 that wehave here, right?
I mean, we're going to teachyou the catechism, we're going
to give you great Lutherantheology, but we're going to
(12:46):
welcome Mormon to Muslim.
But we make no mistake that weare holding true to our Lutheran
core identities here and we cando both things at the same time
.
I think a lot of the narrativehas been like hey, you're either
going down the mission line,you're going to compromise
everything.
Going down the mission line,you're going to compromise
everything, or you've got toreally, really batten down the
hatches.
And we do.
We do both.
We welcome all people to our.
(13:08):
We can and we've struggled,maybe on one end of the spectrum
and so the church.
We're walking toward that.
It is a Lutheran middle wayright today.
So I'm so happy to hear you saywe want to grow those five and
we'd even like to add somecreative extensions of those
five universities.
Strong, strong supporter there.
Before I go into, before we getinto Ann Arbor, maybe one other
(13:33):
, the LEMOs that you bring up Idon't have all my acronyms the
Lutheran.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Lutheran Identity Mission Upcome Standards.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, very good.
So you know, the one that willget like the most like kind of
pull back, it's when we comeinto our chapel.
Situations that are beautifuland need to be.
We need to maintain, I wouldsay, a liturgy, but some of them
can be a little bit more open.
I'm going to be fully honest.
(14:02):
Like I grew up and I've beenvery public about this I grew up
with the early forms ofcontemporary worship, right, and
I'm a vocalist and a singer andall that kind of stuff.
So I've been in the worshipleadership conversation for some
time.
I also will say some of thesongs, not all of them.
Some of the songs were lessthan faithful and less than
(14:25):
helpful for discipleship and Ithink we want to do better with
that.
And so a shout out to theworship leadership into the
Wally group that's there doingsome wonderful things and we're
writing new songs, so manyreally great songs for those who
do have modern instrumentationin our space.
But where I'll land the plane,where we're going to get some
(14:45):
pushback, is if we come in andwe got heavy handed, unless
chapel looks exactly like this.
It's not, it's not Lutheran,would you?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
would you speak into that just a little bit Dr Hardy
yeah, first things first let mejust say this and I think, tim,
you specifically know this aboutme nine years as English
district president and bishop,which is the best nine years so
far of my life in ministry.
But we have in the Englishdistrict probably the absolute
spectrum ends of the MissouriSenate with, let's say, some of
(15:15):
our higher liturgical churches,and then, let's say, the largest
church in the Missouri Senate,hales Corner, is Lutheran and I
can just tell you that I existedin that realm, I think very
successfully, out of respect,knowing that I take the same
approach that President Harrisontakes.
If you've never heard PresidentHarrison talk about worship, he
(15:36):
makes it very clear.
You need to have the basictenets of a service an
invocation, a confession onabsolution, a singing of
appropriate hymns, songs, thereading of God's Word, the
proclamation of God's Word, acreed, the Lord's Prayer and
prayers and a benediction.
And I want you to know we'regoing to be having a committee
(16:00):
on chapel worship that willproduce what we call chapel
worship thesis.
That's headed up by Reverend DrDouglas Patel.
We will have a representativefrom every campus.
We will have three or fourboard members from CUS and then
constituents in the Synod.
And I promised him, doug and Iwere just together in St Louis.
This is going to be a projectthat might take a year and the
(16:23):
one thing we will not do, wewill not state that you have to
do this right.
You know we have hymn books, wehave synodically approved
worship materials that kind ofyou know, deal with the spectrum
.
I will say that I'm sure acomponent of what the thesis
will say is you need to usesynodically approved liturgical
(16:46):
things that have been kind ofvetted from a theological
perspective in terms of thecontent.
But I am yeah, I've heard thisone too that you know I'm going
to superimpose a specific andsole standard for every
university.
Let me just say, out of thefive universities, six campuses,
two of the universitiesspecifically already have kind
(17:09):
of a very liturgical vestedmatins, morning prayer type
stuff.
Three of the universities havea little bit more of just what I
described as a basic framework.
I think you know occasionallyyou're going to see things that
happen in chapel at ouruniversities that you might go.
Yeah, that's probably not thebest thing, but I do not believe
in my heart, I do not believewe have a worship problem on any
(17:32):
of our campuses, and that'swhere I'll leave it.
Have we had some issues on somecampuses, at some services.
Absolutely.
Have I been present physicallyat a chapel that went kind of
really off the rails?
Absolutely.
But do I think we have aproblem on our campuses in
(17:52):
chapel?
The answer is no, not at all.
I think our universitypresidents are very astute
theologians and when a problemarises they deal with it.
But yeah, so what we're goingto do is we're going to put
together a chapel thesis.
We're going to put those thesesout.
Do is we're going to puttogether a chapel thesis.
We're going to put those thesesout and we're going to let our
universities do what they dobest and that's witness to
Christ.
Let me just say Concordia StPaul has gotten a little bit of
(18:14):
heat recently because they hadan advertisement where they had
a woman with her hijab on whopeople are claiming that she's
Muslim.
She might be Muslim.
I can't say yes or no to that,but Concordia St Paul is in the
most diverse area really in thecountry, in a city that's a
sanctuary city, and they're themost diverse of all of our
(18:35):
Concordias in terms of thestudent population and they are
unabashedly Lutheran andunafraid to be Lutheran.
But that doesn't mean thatyou're not going to find issues
on campus.
We find a couple little things,but President Friedrichs is
outstanding and he is notashamed to stand up for what he
believes.
So no, look, please stop therumor mill on this one.
(18:58):
We're not going to have anedict or a dictate that you have
to do things this way or else.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, hey, on topics like this and this is just good
pastoral practice, I'd say froma leadership perspective, this
is an invitation.
So there's an invitation to usewhat we've agreed to use and to
be selective on songs that maynot have been written by folks
with our confession.
That's just wise.
Have you heard of the Song withour confession?
That's just wise.
Have you heard of theSongwriters Initiative?
That's kind of coming out ofCUI.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, look, this came up last week when we
were in Chicago with thepresidents, and I won't mention
which president.
Again, we got five great ones,but one of them made the point,
on the topic of chapel worshipthesis, that we have all these
great music departments.
I'll just speak to my highschool choir director, kurt Von
Kampen, who's at Nebraska.
(19:51):
One of the best musicians.
I know.
His son is the choir directorat St Paul and we have great
Lutheran musicians and theyshould be coming up with new
stuff.
And one of the presidentsbrought that to the attention of
the IAC, the Advisory Council,the presidents, and it's true we
(20:12):
want our universities to usetheir skill sets and to bring
that to the church.
But again, the only issue Iwould say there is that the
content of whatever the song isthat material and I think you'd
agree it ought to have passedthe theological muster.
And we leave that up to thepresidents and the process
that's in place for reviewingthat stuff with the campus
(20:35):
chaplains and the like.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, yeah, yeah for sure.
And we're singing some of thesesongwriter initiatives I'll
tell you what, brother, youprobably haven't heard them all
yet.
They are super cross-focused,super narrative of God's love,
baptismal identity really,really good for the church and
(20:57):
we, finally, if we're going tohave some churches that are
singing, I'd rather I'll justthrow it out right now.
I would be great.
Matt Preston picks songs andI'd rather I'll just throw it
out right now.
I would be great.
Matt Preston picks songs and Isee him.
He's one of our church workershere in our awesome congregation
.
I would be great if we didn'tever sing Bethel or Hillsong
again.
I'm just throwing it out there.
I think we're past that and wecan write a lot.
(21:19):
We can do better and we areworking to solve that problem.
So, all right, let's get to itFrom your perspective, what
happened at Ann Arbor, and soI'm just going to throw it over
to you.
You've got some data that a lotof people may not know and
another preface to this there'sso much emotion in this, and my
(21:45):
hope in this last conversationis that, as I've said many times
at funerals, we grieve.
We grieve with great hope forwhat the Lord wants to do and it
is a death.
It is a funeral type of a griefthat we're just kind of
processing and so sometimes theemotions and even the
accusations there may be sliversof kind of truth.
(22:06):
But you may not know all of thedata and we're just trying to
work it out and grief is messy,right, there's no like.
This is the way we do it and soI think as a church body we're
just grieving and hoping to movepast the grieving time with a
little more clarity today in ourconversation.
So, from your perspective, whathappened?
How could things have turnedout differently?
(22:27):
And give us a better take onthe financials, dr Hardy?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, well, thank you .
Let me just first say this, andI want to acknowledge
unequivocally that sinceFebruary of 2024, there has been
a lot of heartache, there hasbeen a lot of pain and I think,
Tim, one thing I just want toshare is the pain that we hear
about are the people connecteddirectly with Ann Arbor the
(22:55):
parents, the students, thefaculty and staff.
But I want you to knowsomething else.
There is pain also on the otherside of the coin.
There is pain in theadministration with Eric
Ankerberg.
There is pain at the ConcordiaUniversity of Wisconsin-Ann
Arbor Regents who have had tomake choices that cause people
to lose jobs, cause thedownsizing.
(23:16):
But I want to be very clearbecause the narrative that I
continue to hear drives mereally insane.
Concordia, ann Arbor, a campusof Wisconsin, is not closing and
and I want that, that I know assoon as I say that whenever you
put this out on the web.
But you know that there's gonnabe people on congregations
(23:37):
matters or Concordia matters,I'm sorry, and they're gonna
hammer me and they're gonna saythat it's effectively a closure
or what we've done iseffectively close it.
And yet I have been in everyregent meeting, less one over
the last seven years.
Okay, every regent meeting.
So I want, tim, I want you toknow this I have watched the
(23:57):
board turnover at the lastconvention cycle.
We have several new members onthe current board that have only
come on since the lastconvention cycle, and I've said
this in other forums.
I had the pleasure of speakingto the Michigan District Board
of Directors.
I thank Dave Davis.
I know he is trying really hardto be evangelical about this.
(24:18):
He's a brother of mine on thecouncil for many years and I
know he's in a very tough spot.
He let me speak to the MichiganDistrict Board of Directors and
I said this there as well verytough spot.
He let me speak to the MichiganDistrict Board of Directors and
I said this there as well.
These are good people on theCUWAA Board of Regents that want
what's best for the church andfor the gospel and yet they're
being maligned, they're beingraked over the coals.
Eric Ankerberg is being totallyand completely destroyed
(24:43):
publicly because of theemotional side.
I've been in the meetings, tim,and I can speak with authority
and say this never once, neveronce, have I heard anything at a
meeting that has anything to dowith what's best other than
what's best for the university,the campus in Ann Arbor and the
gospel witness.
And number two, what I would saytwice as many cuts were made
(25:09):
for last fiscal year ending June30th on the Wisconsin campus
than was made on the Ann Arborcampus.
And nobody wants to talk aboutthis.
Okay, everybody wants to focuson Ann Arbor, but the truth of
the matter is twice as manyemployees, faculty and staff
lost their job at Wisconsin inthe rifts that took place and
(25:31):
I'm not minimizing anything thathappened on the Ann Arbor
campus.
I'm simply sharing with youthat it's not an isolated
incident.
Eric Ankerberg and the regentshad to make very tough changes
and so let me go into somenumbers.
Let me share with you somenumbers and, by the way, for
(26:07):
anybody paying attention to yearactual $8,886,140 loss.
Now, tim, let me repeat that$8,886,140 loss in the
operations side of theuniversity, the big loss.
(26:29):
Let me give you the specificcampus numbers for 2023.
For Mequon campus $4,159,364loss operational loss.
The Ann Arbor campus last year$4,820,155 operational loss.
(26:51):
The Ann Arbor campus last year4,820,155 operational loss.
Okay, so last year, or this yearin February, when all this took
place, the Board of Regents metwith President Ankerberg, as
you well know, we had thisdirect process to look at how to
write this ship.
Many rifts were introduced onthe Mequon campus and on the Ann
(27:12):
Arbor campus.
Those all took place like May31st.
Those all kind of kicked in.
So, before the June 30th fiscalyear end for Mequon, I'm going
to give you the numbers for theactual year end consolidated
financials.
I'm going to give you thenumbers for the actual year end
consolidated financials and Iknow you pay attention.
A lot of people have been onConcordia Matters saying CUAA
(27:50):
was $50701 in the black.
That's corporation-wide.
Here's the black.
The Ann Arbor campus was$1,953,826 in the red.
(28:16):
That comes out under theoperational line with $44,701 in
the black.
So let's just take one quickdeep breath, try to set the
emotions aside.
After all the changes that wereannounced already this year and
that'll take place, the AnnArbor campus lost $2 million
(28:38):
last fiscal year.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So please, to everybody paying attention to
this.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
please stop saying there is not a financial reason
why this has occurred Now.
The good news, however, is thatthe Lord has been gracious.
You're going to get people outthere saying well, there's a
tremendous market gain in theendowment.
That is a true statement.
What's not true is the exactsame thing could have occurred
(29:05):
on the other end of investing,which is a co-equal loss in the
endowment.
And so, please understand, cuwaaBoard of Regents is paying
attention to the operation line,and I know you had my good
friend, my mentor and teacher,pat Farian, back in February.
He talked about the mix ofusing endowment monies and
that's all true, but the Boardof Regents at CUWAA, along with
(29:30):
President Ankerberg, have madethe decision to focus on making
the operations positive and notlosing money.
And so, when I just shared withyou those numbers, if CUW did
not have the Ann Arbor campus,it would have been roughly $2
million in the black.
But the good news is, as asingle university, the
(29:52):
university ended up $44,701 inthe black because the difficulty
in Ann Arbor was offset by thepositive response in Mequon and
because we are one universitywith two campuses.
That, tim, is good news.
That doesn't mitigate all thechanges that are going on in the
Ann Arbor campus.
That doesn't mitigate theyet-to-happen rifts.
(30:14):
That doesn't mitigate thesports going away.
I fully understand that.
That's heart-wrenching.
I have a family at my owncongregation whose child plays
sports at Ann Arbor who has tofind a new university.
Own congregation whose childplays sports at Ann Arbor who
has to find a new university.
That's a real issue.
Mom was in my office.
Emotions flew.
I understand this.
I'm a Michigan boy and I knowI've been criticized on
(30:39):
Concordia Matters.
How come Hardy's not doing moreabout this?
How come Harrison is not doingmore about this?
The truth is the Board ofRegents is carrying out their
fiduciary duty and I believethey're doing the best that they
can.
President Ankerberg has donenothing in my presence other
than speak well of and do hisbest to mitigate what's going on
.
Tomorrow he will go to theBoard of Directors of Synod with
(31:03):
a request for some action itemsthat the BOD of Synod can
approve that would affect theAnn Arbor campus.
Again, let me say this, tim,there is no desire to outrightly
close the Ann Arbor campus bythe Board of Regents.
On the last Thursday region,when we met last Thursday, there
was not a single word aboutclosing that campus.
(31:25):
There is a consolidationthey're looking at to the North
Building.
I think everybody knows thatthe health care programs are
going to be completely kept.
I have made it very clear toPresident Ankerberg.
We've had many, manyconversations.
He has talked about a one-yearhiatus for church work and then
come back and, believe me, I'mgoing to hold his feet to the
(31:46):
fire on that.
The CUS board is paying veryclose attention to this because
the centerpiece of our ConcordiaUniversity system is church
work preparation, and if wedon't have church work
preparation there, I have aconcern about that right.
So again I want to be clear.
They're taking a year off,starting next academic year, but
(32:06):
he has assured me that theintention is to bring church
work preparation back.
All right good.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So I mean, that's a lot of information.
It is Let me follow up and thankyou for that.
I think it's the specifics thatmany people may not quite be
aware of, aware of.
(32:32):
So, first off, the district,the Michigan district, tried to
respond to meet the short-termneed and you know, some people
feel like their gift and theireffort was kind of roundly
rebuffed, and I'm sure that'snot exactly true.
The way I kind of make sense ofit is like well, it's good for
now, but we've got a systemic,longer range operational problem
, that this is a very smallbandaid on a very large wound.
(32:58):
Is that a fair understanding ofwhy the district's attempt
wasn't maybe roundly considered?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah.
So let me clearly articulatethat situation, because I've
watched and listened to thefolks that you've had on about
that.
Number one in February, when CFOKali did their evaluation and
President Ankerberg presented itto the Board of Regents and
there was a red flag offinancials.
The Board of Directorsestablished four committees.
(33:24):
I was chair At that time.
I wasn't CUS president, I wasjust a member.
I was chair of the accred fourcommittees.
I was chair At that time.
I wasn't CUS president, I wasjust a member.
I was chair of theaccreditation piece.
There was a legal piece, therewas a finance piece and there
was properties or I forget thefourth one, but forgive me for
that.
But here's the deal.
The chairman of the board ofdirectors, john Berg, said to
Dave Davis go and get a Michiganplan, because Dave kept asking
(33:50):
well, is there an alternative?
So the board said to Dave Davisgo do a plan.
So he got a bunch of peopletogether some you've had on your
show and they produced aMichigan plan and presented it
to the Board of Regents.
The Board of Regents, its Junemeeting, had one decision to
make and that decision was canConcordia, ann Arbor, be
(34:13):
returned to its independence asa university and then the
Michigan plan would have beenable to quote unquote be put
into action.
Okay, so the Michigan plan hadto be set aside until the
university determined whether ornot Ann Arbor could be
independent.
And let me just give you mycommittee I chaired HLC Higher
(34:34):
Learning Commission.
There was no accreditation pathfor Concordia Ann Arbor to
receive accreditation on its own.
If we just cut it off and setit aside and I won't go into all
the specifics Somebody is goingto say, well, there would have
been a path.
The path would have been verylong and not allowed for
complete independence right offthe bat.
Okay, so the point is theycould have not have been severed
(34:57):
and been made independent andthen gotten accreditation.
So let's just start there.
I looked at the Michigan plan.
I think you know I have alittle bit of a background in
finance.
I have a doctorate in thisstuff.
They had, as a part of theirplan, annually raising $10
million in fund development.
That's a lot.
Now just follow with me for asecond.
(35:19):
They have not hit $10 millionon the Ann Arbor campus
separately and solely in termsof fund development.
You know I'm talking aboutgifts and bequests.
Yeah, since Mequon took it over, I applaud their desire to do
that.
So when they say their plan wasroundly and completely dismissed
(35:42):
, it had pieces within it thatsimply were great desires, great
hopes, great faith that itwould happen.
But I'm just here to tell youthat wasn't what the CUWA Board
of Regents was voting on.
They were voting on whether ornot it could be independent.
(36:03):
And so when they made theirdecision in June that they
couldn't be independent becauseof all these reasons
accreditation, legal, blah, blah, blah that was not a rejection
of the Michigan plan, it was arejection of that university's
campus could not be independent.
Thus it couldn't even institutethe Michigan's plan.
Now the other thing I would saythey raised what was it?
(36:25):
$3.75 million in pledges, yeah,and you know there was this
whole to-do and I think theregents at Mequon bear
responsibility a little bit inthis that that money was
rejected.
Let me be clear that money wasnever outrightly offered to
CUWAA and if anybody says to youit was, I assure you again I
(36:50):
was in the room, tim, I've beenin every meeting less one it
never was offered, as here's thegifts and bequests, here's the
pledges, save Ann Arbor.
Never was that offered.
In fact, what I need you toknow is it was absolutely
articulated and I won't make anynames, call anybody out but it
(37:10):
was absolutely articulated thatif any closures happen, any
reduction on the Ann Arborcampus happens, or if the plan
that the CUWAA regents came upwith wasn't satisfactory to the
Michigan District or its boardof directors, there would be no
money.
That was said, okay, and so I'mactually.
(37:31):
Look, I give Dave Davis and theMichigan District kudos for
raising 3.75 million in eightdays.
I can't tell you how happy andthrilled I am, but I'll tell you
this I think if they would havesimply outrightly given that
money right away, there couldhave possibly I'm not saying
will, but there could havepossibly been a little bit more
(37:51):
of an extension to not have todo what they've done this year.
We might have gotten a secondyear to try to make things work.
But hearing that they were$1.95 million in the hole in
operations in this last fiscalyear, that $3.75 could have
wiped that away in operations,you understand my point.
So this accusation that CUWAABoard of Regents rejected that
(38:14):
money, that is not a totallytrue statement.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
And so Let me just push into that a bit.
It's because and the lastquestion I sent you, brother, is
Satan's had a heyday insituations like this in dividing
us, and what does he want to do?
He wants to steal, kill,destroy trust in relationship.
(38:39):
And so the reason that's not,they don't, they didn't because
of the communication struggles.
This is again I'm 2,000 milesaway from this whole thing,
right, but it's justcommunication missteps at
various points where peopleneeded to be in the room to draw
together.
This is what I do in leadingthe local church, this is what
(39:00):
you have to do.
You, you're negotiating.
Here's reality, and how are wegoing to come together as one?
And I think geography, to adegree, kind of got the best of
us in this situation as well.
You know, absence does notalways make the heart grow
fonder, right Absence, you putthe worst construction on
absence, and so that's why therewas a little bit of reticence.
Well, we've raised this.
Are we going to get what weneed?
(39:21):
And at a very human level, youcan understand why that would be
their case.
It was a dampening of trust,and that is very unfortunate.
Any take there, though, drHardy.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, look, I hear you completely.
Let me just say Dave Davis andI had many conversations about
this.
Again, I applaud him for whathe did.
I understand the position he'sin.
I am not throwing stones when Isaid that.
Okay, I'm not.
Let me also be on the recordhere.
I spoke to the Council ofPresidents last week and the
presidents of the universitieswere there and I made this
(39:55):
statement and I'll make it herebecause I believe it, the CUWAA
Board of Regents understandsthat they could have done a
better job communicating.
President Ankerberg has made itclear that he could have done a
better job communicating.
President Ankerberg has made itclear that he could have done a
better job communicating.
I will tell you and if anybodytries to go on Concordia Matters
(40:16):
and twist my words here, I wantyou to hear me clearly I am not
happy that this has occurred.
I am not joyful that we are inthis position.
I wish we could have avoidedthis altogether.
I'm an athlete, I'm a footballplayer, I'm a wrestler.
(40:36):
I don't want to see sports goaway.
I mean you know, but I alsoknow from a corporate
perspective.
We can't keep losing millionsof dollars.
And again, all due respect toPat Ferry and his administration
today is not the sameenvironment that he had right.
(40:57):
And so he had a process, aprogram.
He had Al Prochnow as the CFO,who I have great respect for.
I mean, al, 20 years with Pat,did a wonderful job moving that
university forward.
But I also have talked to otherpeople and I was in the
meetings, tim you know, everytime we would get communicated
to, even when my friend Pat wasthere as the president.
(41:20):
We're going to add this program, we're going to add this
athletic program, we're going toadd this academic program and
there's going to be a tippingpoint at which those things
start to produce.
And I still believe the healthcare is going to get to that
point where it tips over andit's going to start producing.
I'm a believer, I'm a hopefulbeliever, that that likely will
happen.
But in the meantime we cannotcontinue to just look at
(41:44):
operations and accept the losses, and that's what I think
President Ankerberg has made hisstand.
Now.
Let's be clear If you talk tomy college classmate and friend,
dr Bull at Nebraska, he willtell you, as Pat told you on
your show, that they live off ofa different model than what
Eric is doing in Mequon.
That doesn't mean that eitherof those models are right or
(42:06):
wrong.
It's the model that thatleadership has decided to go for
.
I'll go on the record and saythis.
I've told this to thepresidents in our meetings, and
one of them in particular, myfriend Bernard.
He lovingly disagrees with me.
I am the business leader thatwill say I want positive
operations.
Now, I'm going to getcriticized for that and I'm
(42:28):
going to be told that that's nothow higher ed works.
But if you go on websites andjournals like the Chronicle of
Higher Education, you will seethat this battle between net
neutral operations, positiveoperations and then bottom line
numbers with foundation and allthat other stuff this argument
is not unique to the ConcordiaUniversity system.
(42:49):
Okay, so the fact that we havedifferent opinions, the fact
that my friend Pat Ferry wouldsay this is how we've always run
it and the fact that Eric saysthis is how I want to run it,
they're not in.
They're not in conflict witheach other.
They're simply different styles, and I want that to be
understood, because what'shappening is people are taking a
side of a equal coin with twodifferent viewpoints and they're
(43:12):
calling the other side wrong.
And I want to be clear I don'tview it that way.
I'm not saying they're wrong.
What I'm saying is this is howI view business right, because
here's the deal.
I teach portfolio management atCUW in the DBA school and the
bottom line is investments in afoundation are going to be up.
(43:33):
They're going to be down and agood investor is not going to
get emotional when they're up.
You don't get emotional.
When they're down, you don'tget emotional.
But the problem is you can'tcontrol market performance.
So what can you control?
The only thing you control isoperations.
You can't control bequests.
You can't control gifts.
You can work hard to get those,but you can't control them.
(43:54):
But you can control operationsand I know you're a theologian,
tim.
What does the Bible say aboutwhat you can do?
You worry and control about thethings you have been trusted
with God to control and that'sall you do.
And you work within theframework of that which you have
.
And remember the parable of thevineyard.
What does the master say to theworkers that worked all day and
(44:16):
they complained about the onewho worked one hour?
The master says is it not mineto give?
And so the parable of thetalons in Matthew 25, the Bible
says they were given what theywere able to manage.
So my whole point here is thisthose two different philosophies
I do not think are incombativeness to each other, and
(44:37):
Eric is the president right nowand this is how he views it.
And again, you don't have toagree with him.
In fact, I've said thispublicly.
I don't expect everyone toagree with him.
In fact, I've said thispublicly.
I don't expect everyone toagree with him.
But they do have to respect thefact that it's the way he wants
to do it, in the way that theregions have decided to do it,
and that's what they're doing,and they're doing it with godly
intentions and intentions to dowhat's best for the gospel.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Hey, I respect it.
This is an area of adiaphora,as I've said in a number of
podcasts.
Right, I mean there's no solidway you can use an endowment.
For me, I would feeluncomfortable if 50% or even
(45:22):
like 15% of our yearly $8million church and school budget
were taken care of by theperformance of an endowment like
that.
So I get that.
It's just a change ofphilosophy.
Dr Ferry had a different view ofthe endowment.
It was a different day.
I mean, everything's brand new.
This is an entrepreneurialventure.
(45:43):
We'd not seen two Concordiasmerge before.
So I understand how he wouldsay you know, we were making a
larger investment into ourendowment, we were taking on
some risk to see if we couldn'tsustain a Concordia Ann Arbor,
and God bless them, they, theydid, it worked and then and then
you have a new president andhe's got a different perspective
and the markets changed and andhe's not comfortable with that
(46:05):
sort of risk for two years.
So I get it from a leadershipperspective, from a business
perspective, I get it.
The hard thing was it justhurts people and at the end my
under overriding emotion in thewhole story.
I'm not angry.
This was tough, I think, asI've talked to a lot whole story
(46:25):
.
I'm not angry.
This was tough.
I think, as I've talked to alot of people.
We're just sad.
We're just sad that it got tothis point.
Right, that's it.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And I want to acknowledge that.
I mean I'm the president of theConcordia University System,
previously bishop of the Englishdistrict, so I have a very
significant outlook on thechurch from a district's
perspective and now from theConcordia University System's
perspective.
I am sad overall for the churchthat this campus of CUWAA is
(46:56):
dealing with what it's dealing,but I want to give you some good
news for the future.
Let's go thing that the Boardof Regents talked about on
Thursday in the plan that'sgoing to the Board of Directors
has with it a outlook forsustainability in the near term
and growth in the long term.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
And again.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
I know that will not please many people on Concordia
Matters, I know that, but in myheart I can put my head on the
pillow and I can say thanks.
Be to God that Eric Ankerberg,john Berg, the chairman of the
board, and the entire board isfocused on trying to fortify
that campus.
Eric said, president Ankerbergsaid at the regents in open
(47:37):
session we need to maintain apresence in Ann Arbor.
You heard me say at thebeginning of this podcast we're
looking for deserts where we'renot at, where we can put
campuses or satellites.
I have not heard a single wordout work to that campus and
anybody that would say anythingelse about Hardy or Reverend
(48:09):
Harris and our president ofsynod that they don't want that
there.
Tim, you can correct them.
That's an outright lie.
Got it, got it.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
So is there.
You know, I think people wouldwant to know.
I think people would want toknow, Dr Hardy.
I mean, could athletics at somepoint if it made sense like
return in some way, shape orform to Concordia, Ann Arbor, I
don't know look, so I'm notpresident of CUW AA so.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I'll answer that with what I hope and I pray as a as
the first captain of the CUWwrestling team and in a hall of
fame member at CUW.
I hope that athletics can comeback there at some point.
Um, I I can't promise itbecause I don't know what the
future will hold.
I think the short-term plandoes have us fortifying the
(48:52):
university campus there.
I think the short-term plan hasa certain part of growth on the
North Campus, without a doubt.
I want to say this I am not asupporter or a desire that's not
my desire to see us liquidatethat South Campus, the main
campus.
So you know, I mean, is it outthere as a possibility?
(49:14):
Tim, there is a possibilitythat there's a scenario.
It's not something I want to do.
The Board of Directors ismeeting tomorrow with the
opportunity to have somedecision-making power into this.
Let me also say this PresidentAnkerberg was very clear in open
session.
He announced that the board ofregents has a desire to carve
(49:36):
out I believe it's 10 acreswhere the Michigan district's
office is and give that to theMichigan district so that that's
permanently their property.
That was talked about in opensession last Thursday.
So I mean, I again I guess whatI want to finalize this whole
kind of topic is I understandthe emotional side.
(49:57):
I have people I went to gradeschool with on the board of
directors of Michigan district.
I have people I went to highschool with who are on Concordia
Matters.
You know, making all thesegrandiose claims about how
horrible I am and how horriblePresident Harrison is, and I
understand, because their kidsare going to school there.
I try to be charitable and Itry not to defend myself or
(50:21):
Harrison publicly there becauseI know that the emotional side
of it is just going to continueto blow up.
But I want you to know I have apastor's heart.
President Harrison has apastor's heart.
I read President Harrison'sletter to the Board of Regents
in which he said I want you tokeep as much as you can.
That's sustainable.
That was his words.
You probably saw the letter.
It leaked out into Concordia.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Matters.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
I read that in June to the Board of Regents.
So I can tell you withcertainty that President
Harrison wants nothing butgrowth and a lot of positive
stuff, and I shared with you thenumbers of all the church
workers for the system to letyou know that the church is
going to prevail.
Look, I'm a competitor.
You know me a little bit, tim.
(51:04):
I don't like to lose, I don'tlike to be behind the eight ball
.
We are going to fight like theDickens to bring the CUS system
and our universities to the topof the heap, partly because I
believe that we belong there,because we have a great thing to
offer the world and the churchand because this is what we do
we educate, we teach and weprepare.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yes, Dr Hardy thank you for reaching out to me, and
I hope that this brings someclarity, and it's just because I
was misinformed.
Sometimes we're just trying todo our thing local and you hear
different things, and so here'sthe overall focus of this
podcast.
Man is where there is division,where there's confusion, where
Satan is having a heyday.
(51:59):
We need to look face to faceand we're using technology,
we're still face-to-face man.
We need to look face-to-face toone another and honestly say I
have heard this or I've heardyou say this or do this, or even
think or insinuate this.
Is that true?
And if it's not true, I confess.
If I have misspoken toward anindividual, I'll always say
(52:25):
being the president of Synod orthe president of CUS, this is a
hard thing.
Being a pastor at a local levelit's a hard thing.
It's pick up your cross andfollow after Jesus.
And so where I get excited andpassionate is when I don't see
the church operating in achurchly fashion, meaning
putting the best construction onsomething until you get other
(52:47):
information.
And the beauty of long-formpodcasts today, dr Hardy, is we
get to have longer-formconversations where tone matters
.
Tone matters for sure and theheart.
You actually know the personand we're seeking to build
bridges of understanding tohopefully rebuild trust where
(53:07):
trust has been damaged, so thatwe can unite in the mission man.
The world needs the theology ofthe Lutheran Church Missouri
Synod and the theologians, theacademics that are seeking to
give that into the hearts andears of teachers and DCEs and
administrators and pastors andworship leaders, et cetera, like
we.
We need to come together as achurch body and and may it not
(53:30):
be said that this ConcordiaUniversity, ann Arbor situation
just served as the next step inleading us toward whatever,
whatever could come in thefuture we I am not okay, now you
get me going I am not fordivision in any form in the
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.
Now, I am for having clarifyingconversations around what we're
(53:52):
united around.
But if anybody thinks the ULCis about, oh, it's just a next
step in some sort of a coup toget out of like that is the
furthest thing we want to be apart of man.
Okay, I am a Concordia guy, I'man LCMS guy, I'm a third
generation guy, I am you, we areus and we're doing this
together.
And it's unprecedented times ina post-Christian, secular day
(54:12):
and age in which we live.
Our contexts are remarkablydiverse.
We need to listen twice as muchas we speak and we need to put
the best construction oneverything.
So thanks for allowing me evento I don't think I've been that
that pointed in any podcast.
I have no ulterior motive, justlike you don't have any
ulterior motive to destroy theConcordia system right?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
No, no.
And please let me just sayfinally this for anybody who's
paying attention, especially forthose folks on Concordia
Matters where the emotions arejust raw and running wild my
phone is open.
My email is open.
I'll talk to anybody about this.
I'll listen to you.
I'm a pastor at heart.
If I've offended in any way inhow I've led, please accept my
(54:55):
apology.
I am like Tim.
I'm very passionate about whatmy church is doing.
We are not seeking to do harm.
We are seeking to be the beststewards of the resources God
has given to us, and I can saythat on behalf of President
Ankerberg, I can say that onbehalf of John Berg, the
president of the board, I cansay that on behalf of CUS and I
(55:16):
can say that on behalf ofPresident Harrison.
We are simply seeking to do thebest thing we can do for the
sake of the gospel and be goodstewards at it.
So where somebody has been hurtor offended, I'm sorry.
We are here to lift each otherup.
We're here to support eachother, we're not here to destroy
.
And so please, when you thinkabout starting to type some
(55:37):
vicious accusation, before youdo it, give me a call.
Talk to me first Give me anopportunity to actually tell you
what I think, before you go onConcordia Matters and tell
everybody what I think, becauseyou really don't know what I
think.
I want to grow the system.
I don't want to shut it down.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Let's go.
All right, let's go.
Concordia.
More of them, more kids on ourcampuses hearing the gospel of
Jesus Christ and being mobilizedin multiple vocations to be
salt and light in a dark anddying world.
This is lead time.
Sharing is caring, like,subscribe, comment wherever it
is you take in these podcastsand we promise to have more,
hopefully, joy-filled,truth-filled conversations, just
(56:18):
like the one we had withReverend Dr Jameson Hardy.
Thanks, brother, for your timeand for bringing a different
slant to this hard time thatwe've walked through.
But we're grieving with hope,moving forward, centered on
Jesus.
It's a good day.
Go make it a great day.
Thanks, dr Hardy.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
All right.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!