April 29, 2025 • 20 mins
Tim Ahlman shares important commitments being made to increase unity in the LCMS regarding pastoral formation discussions, explaining his decision to step back from public commentary on this topic while pursuing appropriate denominational channels for dialogue.
• Tim commits to no longer discussing LCMS pastoral formation on his podcasts or promoting non-Synod-approved leadership training programs
• Christ Greenfield Lutheran has historically served as a mentoring congregation for pastoral students in various LCMS programs
• The congregation had been exploring alternative leadership development approaches while maintaining transparency about their methods
• Recent confusion arose over a commissioning ceremony that was misinterpreted as an ordination
• Tim will pursue the formal LCMS dissent process, organizing a private "fellowship of peers" for constructive dialogue
• Both Tim and Chris affirm their commitment to the LCMS while seeking to address the shortage of pastors (over 700 vacant pulpits)
• They emphasize creating "dialogue not discord" while honoring established ecclesiastical structures
• The goal remains supporting the work of LCMS seminaries while exploring how to meet the church's growing leadership needs
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Under your advice.
I am making these commitmentsto you in the hopes of
increasing unity in theadvancement of the gospel in the
LCMS One.
I am no longer going to bediscussing LCMS pastoral
formation on my weekly podcast,lead Time and the Tim Allman
podcast.
Now I have a lot of guests thatare lined up on this podcast
(00:20):
into the future.
Many of them care about thistopic.
What I am committing to is I'mnot going to add any of my
opinion.
I've shared what I need toshare into the future, as folks
are guests on my podcast, butthis will not be something that
I or Jack are actively talkingabout on a consistent basis.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
This is Lead Time.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to Lead Time, tim Allman here.
Jack is off today.
Pray, the joy of Jesus is yourstrength.
I get the privilege today ofhanging out with my partner in
the gospel here, congregationalPresident Chris Korb, here at
Christ Greenfield LutheranChurch and School in Gilbert and
East Mesa.
Chris, how you doing, buddy?
I am well.
Thanks for having me.
(01:05):
Yeah, man.
So let's just before we get intothe primary kind of meat of the
discussion today and this isgoing to be a discussion around
kind of the state of theconversation around pastoral
formation and kind of the rolethat the Unite Leadership
Collective and even ChristGreenfield has played in raising
(01:27):
up leaders, doing it verytransparently in a pathway
that's not approved by Synod,and we're going to be talking
about that We've been running atest, hopeful that many would
watch with curiosity, and we'rejust at a very unique time, kind
of crossroads right now, andwe're going to be reading a
little bit of letter that we puttogether in partnership with
our district president,president Mike Gibson.
(01:49):
But before we do that, I thinkpeople you know, there's a story
here at Christ Greenfield thatis and we don't talk about a
whole lot on lead time, becauseevery congregation is unique and
everybody's situation is kindof unique.
But this is a very uniquecongregation in that we really,
really want to, by the Spirit'spower, develop people.
(02:12):
We use language like discover,develop and deploy different
folks, both for church work aswell as for and this is all
church work as well as foradvancing the gospel in various
vocations and training towardthat end.
I mean that's one of the thingsthat makes us I wish we weren't
as unique but the systems andstructures that even accommodate
(02:33):
moving in that direction.
Chris, that's one of the thingsthat I think people that may
look in from the outside don'tunderstand how much that's in
our DNA.
Anything to say to that, chris.
And then other things that arekind of unique about Christ
Greenfield.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yeah, I think we've been here about eight years now
and it is a very unique place, Ithink, for various different
reasons.
One is we're in a very part ofthe country that's growing a lot
right here in the Phoenix area.
It's sprawling suburban areas.
I think the other thing thatmakes us in this area and the
(03:07):
congregation unique is thediversity that comes with that.
So you know, we live in a warmclimate here in the Phoenix area
we get a lot of snowbirds, sothe congregation is very diverse
in terms of like.
We have people that are herehalf the year and then we have a
very a good size school right,so we have a number of young
families that come to the school, also attend church, and so it
(03:32):
also presents opportunities forleaders kind of across the
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
With that school in mind and with also kind of the
diversity in the congregation,the types of different things
we're trying to do from a churchperspective, the types of
offerings that we look to have,and so we've been running the
test for some time now inraising up word workers, so
(03:59):
those that are carrying the wordin our congregation and beyond
our congregation, those thatlove Lutheran theology and want
to go deeper there.
And one part of my story isthat I've been privileged to be
a mentor pastor and ChristGreenfield even a mentor
congregation for student pastorsin just about every program
(04:23):
that the Synod has offered, andso that's also kind of a unique
thing with us is that we've hadthe residential coming third
year.
We had a four-year vicar inJake Besling through the CMC
program.
One of our rostered pastors hasbeen through the SMP program.
I've been a mentor pastor fortwo guys that have gone through
(04:43):
SMP and I also then have a lotof connections with some of the
other routes, like the EIITprogram.
So we have looked at and triedto care for, use, steward those
partnerships, those routes welland at the same time, because of
the vision to bring Word andSacrament to as many people as
(05:05):
possible, we've been running atest saying could there be a
model and we like the Kairosmodel because it is a model that
moves between character andcontent and craft, kind of the
head, heart and hands.
Was it a perfect partnershipwith Luther House over the years
?
Well, we would have loved tohave greater partners in the
LCMS, to be sure, butnonetheless, many of these
(05:28):
students have been trained very,very well.
Now, the reason we're bringingthis to the fore is there was a
completion of a degree from oneof our students and that student
had been in the program overfour years and he's at one of
our campuses and we wanted tocelebrate this brother and then
(05:49):
kind of commission him into notWord and Sacrament ministry.
It wasn't an ordination, it wascommissioning him to continue
on his leadership journey as acampus lead.
And the hard thing is the useof pastor.
You know a lot of otherdenominations in our area or
non-denom.
They use pastor whether you'reordained or not, right, and so
(06:13):
we're definitely not going touse the word pastor.
But, um, there are a number ofdifferent, different churches
where that people won't come inand who's doing some of the
shepherding here, and hedefinitely has a shepherding,
spiritual care kind of componentto his, to his work, and at the
same time he's not ordained, um, and and wanted to make that
(06:33):
clear ordained, and wanted tomake that clear, and one of the
pictures got out around a stole,one of our members,
well-intentioned, gave him astole.
A picture was taken with him ina stole and since then I've had
to tell President Gibson itwasn't an ordination he's not
actively pursuing.
He'd love to be on the rosterat some point down the line
whether it's going through oneof our programs, colloquy, et
(06:55):
cetera.
We know that's not apossibility right now with
colloquy, but he's just servingfaithfully under the covering of
those that have been ordainedhere at Christ Greenfield.
So, with all that being said,lots of conversation with my
district president and notwanting to do and say anything
that would bring, we want toelevate the conversation of
(07:16):
pastoral formation, but we wantto do it in a reasonable way
that brings unity.
And I've learned some newthings around how the LCMS
operates.
And so, chris, I'm just goingto read a letter.
This letter has been addressed.
And then our board also wrote aletter to President Gibson
(07:36):
after his visit a couple weeksago to us just talking about
kind of where we are right nowand to allow Christ Greenfield
to clarify our intentions.
And so I'm going to get intothat.
President Gibson and I havesome kind of niceties to him.
He's a dear brother in Christ.
So here's the commitments.
Under your advice, I'm makingthese commitments to you in the
(07:59):
hopes of increasing unity in theadvancement of the gospel in
the LCMS.
One I am no longer going to bediscussing LCMS pastoral
formation on my weekly podcast,lead Time and the Tim Allman
podcast.
Now I have a lot of guests thatare lined up on this podcast
into the future.
Many of them care about thistopic.
(08:20):
What I am committing to is I'mnot going to add any of my
opinion.
I've shared what I need toshare into the future, as folks
are guests on my podcast, butthis will not be something that
I or Jack are actively talkingabout on a consistent basis.
Point number two to the best ofour ability, we will remove
(08:43):
past podcasts that highlightedpastoral formation in the LCMS.
Point number three I will nolonger be discussing or publicly
promoting on my podcastnon-synod-approved lay
leadership development trainingprograms, especially including
Luther House of Study or theCenter for Missional and
Pastoral Formation.
Number four commitment on anupcoming lead time podcast.
I will read this letter, whichI'm doing right now, and
(09:04):
publicly ask to be forgiven forcausing any appearance of
division in the LCMS.
Now my letter goes on here.
I have seen the power ofpodcasts, especially long-form
podcasts, and building bridgesacross various contexts in the
LCMS.
I have sought to ask questionsand discuss LCMS plans for the
quantity of pastors needed nowand into the future.
Nonetheless, I am aware thatour desire to publicly discuss
(09:26):
controversial topics can createthe appearance of divisiveness.
This is not our intent.
We have simply wanted to sharediverse perspectives on topics
of adiaphora across the LCMS.
President Gibson, you haverecently made me aware of a
portion of the LCMS InternetUsage Policy Council of
President Manual so I wasn'taware of this which states in
(09:48):
the case of using the internetto express dissent, the
appropriate district presidentwill remind the worker of his or
her doctrinal commitments as amember of the Synod and of LCMS
bylaw.
So to remind them of LCMS bylaw1.8 on the topic of dissent, it
would also be helpful to sharethe CCM opinion, which I'm going
(10:10):
to read here in just a second,on the fellowship of peers Based
on this policy.
I say you state, presidentGibson, you state that some of
our content may be breaking theinternet usage policy and I was
unaware of this policy.
Also, you have made me aware ofthe formal dissent process
found on page 36 of the 2023LCMS handbook.
(10:32):
My congregation and I willprayerfully be considering how
the formal dissent process couldbe engaged in the coming days.
I believe a private gatheringand this is very important,
private, not public, not apodcast a private gathering of a
fellowship of peers as outlinedin the dissent process, with
diverse perspectives on thetopic of pastoral formation in
(10:53):
the LCMS, will produce the fruitof unity.
The Commission on ConstitutionalMatters, so CCM, of Synod has
produced a wonderful documenthighlighting the effectiveness
of the dissent process.
It highlights the CTCR reportwhich stated the Synod may be in
error on some point of doctrineor practice, but the dissenter
(11:15):
may also be in error.
The process seeks to protectnot only the conscience of the
dissenter, but also theconsciences of those who believe
that the position of the synodis not in error or who are still
deliberating the matter.
It upholds the necessary rightand responsibility of expressing
dissent, while also seeking toensure that our life together,
(11:37):
within the fellowship of thesynod, is preserved with as
great a degree of peace andunity as possible.
And then I write I fullysubscribe to this perspective
and I'm grateful for the CCM andCTCR for their work over the
years creating the space forbrotherly dissent.
I also agree, coming down thehomestretch here.
I also agree with the wordsquoted in the CCM opinion of our
(11:58):
LCMS founding father one of ourfounding fathers, cfw Walther,
who wrote in his 1879 essay tothe first Iowa district
convention two men this is toquote Walther now two men in a
synod or district may disagreeabout something, and that
disagreement can easily become afire that inflames the entire
synod or district, for both ofthem then often try to gather
(12:21):
support for their own position.
We cannot prevent bitterthoughts from arising.
Unfortunately our hearts aresuch touchy tender that such
sparks can immediately start afire.
But we should immediately getwater and put it out.
And then this is my close herethis letter is an attempt to use
the water of our sharedidentity in baptism and shared
(12:45):
subscribers to Scripture and theLutheran confessions to put the
fire out on the touchy andnuanced conversation of pastoral
formation in the LCMS.
This letter and this podcast isa prayer for a fellowship of
peers with diverse perspectivesto continue to work together on
solving our need for morepastors in vacant pulpits and
(13:06):
pulpits yet to be filled.
Finally, I have no intention ofleaving the Lutheran Church.
Missouri Synod.
Christ Greenfield LutheranChurch, I believe, feels the
same as you're going to hearfrom Chris here as a
third-generation LCMS pastor.
This church body is my familyand I'm praying that various
family members can forgive mefor causing division.
We are not enemies, we'rebrothers and sisters in Christ,
(13:27):
united on our shared mission ofconfessing Christ and making Him
known.
And then I end with Christ isrisen.
He is risen, indeed, hallelujah.
And so I guess, chris, before Iget your kind of response to
that, we're going to beexploring the formal dissent
process.
I don't, frankly, know if thereare others.
You could reach out to me attallman at cglchurchorg if
(13:49):
you've walked this path.
But I'll be working withPresident Gibson to set up a
fellowship, a private fellowshipof peers, to privately talk
about pastoral formation, andthat will be sometime in the
fall, and then we'll take ournext steps from there.
But I hope this letter and eventhis podcast, this conversation
(14:12):
, can allow us to just breatheand come together and care for
one another.
Because what we agree on, chris, is way, way more than what we
are divided on Our commonconfession of Christ crucified,
the way we talk about how Godspeaks through law and gospel
and the Word and Sacrament, andneeding more pastors for Word
(14:33):
and Sacrament work.
This has just been our heart'scry, not just for us but for the
wider church over 700 pulpitsthat are yet to be filled, and
not to mention the churches thatneed to be started.
So praying that theconversation can continue in a
healthy way.
As I've said many, many times,chris, I love our seminaries.
(14:54):
I am a graduate, I went throughour system.
I love our universities.
Praise be to God, you know.
And I um doing a visit toConcordia, nebraska, this fall
for my son to explore, uh,playing football, running track,
but also the pre-seminaryprogram there in the, in the
potential that he ended up maybein a pastor as well.
(15:16):
And uh, for our young people, I, I think for sure, go to the
seminaries.
They're both fantastic, led bywonderful, wonderful leaders.
This is not an either-orconversation.
We've been trying to put it asa both-and kind of conversation
to move the gospel forward.
So that's all I got to sayabout that, chris.
What's your response, bud?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I just also appreciate your passion for
raising up future leaders, tim.
I know as part of this churchwe've had a number of vicars
come in for seminary, like bothin my time here and in the time
leading up to it.
A number of guys that I canthink of that are pastors
elsewhere now have come throughand spent a year here and just
(15:58):
learned alongside a number ofpeople here and it's just been,
you know, kind of fun even toreflect back on the different
guys that you know have comehere and where they are now.
I think we we value like somuch being part of a wider
church body, right, that sharesbeliefs.
I think there's a lot of powerthat comes in that and a lot of
(16:20):
benefits to us as a church thatwe value so much and continue to
appreciate just being a memberof the LCMS and all that comes
with that.
I think the one word that we arefocused on a little bit is like
trying not to create discord,right, so we want to create
dialogue but not discord, and Ithink also clarifying just roles
(16:44):
of different leaders that wehave in the church, including
the gentleman you were talkingabout, like clarifying what his
role is is one of the thingsthat we're looking to do as part
of this.
We were obviously not ordaininganybody that's gone through not
appropriate training.
We value the training thatcomes with being a pastor in the
(17:07):
synod and so like we're not, asa church, ordaining anybody
that hasn't gone through thatthat training.
So look forward to continuingto have the dialogue about what
future leadership developmentlooks like, um and kind of again
appreciating you being willingto have such passion around that
(17:29):
and continuing to drive thatconversation in the appropriate
forums.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, no thanks, chris, it's a.
It's a lot of fun.
You know this is a not nobodyhere at our church or any any
church in the LCMS is doing itbecause it's a job.
You know this is uh, nobodyhere at our church or any any
church in the LCMS is doing itbecause it's a job.
You know this is a calling and,um, we take the call very, very
serious and a local church.
You know, this.
(17:53):
I'm a reading CFW author and Iwon't go off too much here to
close, but uh, what a unique,unique character he was in our,
in our church.
I don't know how much you knowabout the origin story we've had
.
We've had some folks on talkingabout Walther and the Stephan
struggles, the bishop who kindof led our group over here and
(18:15):
then had some kind of moneypower control struggles, and
then CFW Arthur being a leaderthat kind of held the church
together and his heart was thelocal congregation, right.
Whatever it takes to allow allof the priesthood to use all of
(18:35):
her gifts.
It sounds a lot like Luther,right?
This is one of Luther's mainproponents is you need pastors,
and I think on our best dayspastors are here, yes, to bring
word and sacrament, but toprotect and elevate the voice of
the laity, everyone else, allof the priesthood, to equip and
(18:56):
empower them.
Ephesians, chapter four.
But then also, this isn't anykind of healthy church body or
local congregation, right.
Then the honor comes back theother way.
The laity, the priesthood ofall believers, are there to give
honor and respect to the officeof holy ministry.
We walk that line.
(19:17):
They were kind of amazed overin Germany and in Europe, when a
guy by the name of Walter, butalso Winnikin, went over there
and they told this story of howare you guys growing so fast?
And that's basically what theysaid about the early LCMS.
Well, it's because we honor oneanother, pastor and people
working together to elevate thename of Jesus, so pretty special
(19:40):
.
I'm grateful for all of ourleaders and all of our different
roles in the LCMS and we commithere on Lead Time to continue
to have fruitful, provocative.
There's a lot that we can talkabout as it relates because I'm
going to keep talking abouthealthy culture and systems and
structures and obviously whatleadership looks like.
(20:00):
Pastoral leadership looks like.
None of that's off the table.
We're just not going to talkanymore about the pastoral
formation specifics in the LCMS.
This is a lead time.
Please like, subscribe, commentwherever it is you take in
these podcasts and we pray thatthe joy of Jesus is your
strength and Chris, you're adear brother in Christ and thank
(20:21):
you for your leadership here atChrist Greenfield.
It's a good day.
Go make it a great day.
Thanks, chris.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You've been listening to Lead Time, a podcast of the
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Subscribe to our channel, thengo to theuniteleadershiporg to
(20:47):
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Thanks for listening and staytuned for next week's episode.
Under your advice.
I am making these commitmentsto you in the hopes of
increasing unity in theadvancement of the gospel in the
LCMS One.
I am no longer going to bediscussing LCMS pastoral
formation on my weekly podcast,lead Time and the Tim Allman
podcast.
Now I have a lot of guests thatare lined up on this podcast
(00:20):
into the future.
Many of them care about thistopic.
What I am committing to is I'mnot going to add any of my
opinion.
I've shared what I need toshare into the future, as folks
are guests on my podcast, butthis will not be something that
I or Jack are actively talkingabout on a consistent basis.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
This is Lead Time.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Welcome to Lead Time, tim Allman here.
Jack is off today.
Pray, the joy of Jesus is yourstrength.
I get the privilege today ofhanging out with my partner in
the gospel here, congregationalPresident Chris Korb, here at
Christ Greenfield LutheranChurch and School in Gilbert and
East Mesa.
Chris, how you doing, buddy?
I am well.
Thanks for having me.
(01:05):
Yeah, man.
So let's just before we get intothe primary kind of meat of the
discussion today and this isgoing to be a discussion around
kind of the state of theconversation around pastoral
formation and kind of the rolethat the Unite Leadership
Collective and even ChristGreenfield has played in raising
(01:27):
up leaders, doing it verytransparently in a pathway
that's not approved by Synod,and we're going to be talking
about that We've been running atest, hopeful that many would
watch with curiosity, and we'rejust at a very unique time, kind
of crossroads right now, andwe're going to be reading a
little bit of letter that we puttogether in partnership with
our district president,president Mike Gibson.
(01:49):
But before we do that, I thinkpeople you know, there's a story
here at Christ Greenfield thatis and we don't talk about a
whole lot on lead time, becauseevery congregation is unique and
everybody's situation is kindof unique.
But this is a very uniquecongregation in that we really,
really want to, by the Spirit'spower, develop people.
(02:12):
We use language like discover,develop and deploy different
folks, both for church work aswell as for and this is all
church work as well as foradvancing the gospel in various
vocations and training towardthat end.
I mean that's one of the thingsthat makes us I wish we weren't
as unique but the systems andstructures that even accommodate
(02:33):
moving in that direction.
Chris, that's one of the thingsthat I think people that may
look in from the outside don'tunderstand how much that's in
our DNA.
Anything to say to that, chris.
And then other things that arekind of unique about Christ
Greenfield.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yeah, I think we've been here about eight years now
and it is a very unique place, Ithink, for various different
reasons.
One is we're in a very part ofthe country that's growing a lot
right here in the Phoenix area.
It's sprawling suburban areas.
I think the other thing thatmakes us in this area and the
(03:07):
congregation unique is thediversity that comes with that.
So you know, we live in a warmclimate here in the Phoenix area
we get a lot of snowbirds, sothe congregation is very diverse
in terms of like.
We have people that are herehalf the year and then we have a
very a good size school right,so we have a number of young
families that come to the school, also attend church, and so it
(03:32):
also presents opportunities forleaders kind of across the
spectrum.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
With that school in mind and with also kind of the
diversity in the congregation,the types of different things
we're trying to do from a churchperspective, the types of
offerings that we look to have,and so we've been running the
test for some time now inraising up word workers, so
(03:59):
those that are carrying the wordin our congregation and beyond
our congregation, those thatlove Lutheran theology and want
to go deeper there.
And one part of my story isthat I've been privileged to be
a mentor pastor and ChristGreenfield even a mentor
congregation for student pastorsin just about every program
(04:23):
that the Synod has offered, andso that's also kind of a unique
thing with us is that we've hadthe residential coming third
year.
We had a four-year vicar inJake Besling through the CMC
program.
One of our rostered pastors hasbeen through the SMP program.
I've been a mentor pastor fortwo guys that have gone through
(04:43):
SMP and I also then have a lotof connections with some of the
other routes, like the EIITprogram.
So we have looked at and triedto care for, use, steward those
partnerships, those routes welland at the same time, because of
the vision to bring Word andSacrament to as many people as
(05:05):
possible, we've been running atest saying could there be a
model and we like the Kairosmodel because it is a model that
moves between character andcontent and craft, kind of the
head, heart and hands.
Was it a perfect partnershipwith Luther House over the years
?
Well, we would have loved tohave greater partners in the
LCMS, to be sure, butnonetheless, many of these
(05:28):
students have been trained very,very well.
Now, the reason we're bringingthis to the fore is there was a
completion of a degree from oneof our students and that student
had been in the program overfour years and he's at one of
our campuses and we wanted tocelebrate this brother and then
(05:49):
kind of commission him into notWord and Sacrament ministry.
It wasn't an ordination, it wascommissioning him to continue
on his leadership journey as acampus lead.
And the hard thing is the useof pastor.
You know a lot of otherdenominations in our area or
non-denom.
They use pastor whether you'reordained or not, right, and so
(06:13):
we're definitely not going touse the word pastor.
But, um, there are a number ofdifferent, different churches
where that people won't come inand who's doing some of the
shepherding here, and hedefinitely has a shepherding,
spiritual care kind of componentto his, to his work, and at the
same time he's not ordained, um, and and wanted to make that
(06:33):
clear ordained, and wanted tomake that clear, and one of the
pictures got out around a stole,one of our members,
well-intentioned, gave him astole.
A picture was taken with him ina stole and since then I've had
to tell President Gibson itwasn't an ordination he's not
actively pursuing.
He'd love to be on the rosterat some point down the line
whether it's going through oneof our programs, colloquy, et
(06:55):
cetera.
We know that's not apossibility right now with
colloquy, but he's just servingfaithfully under the covering of
those that have been ordainedhere at Christ Greenfield.
So, with all that being said,lots of conversation with my
district president and notwanting to do and say anything
that would bring, we want toelevate the conversation of
(07:16):
pastoral formation, but we wantto do it in a reasonable way
that brings unity.
And I've learned some newthings around how the LCMS
operates.
And so, chris, I'm just goingto read a letter.
This letter has been addressed.
And then our board also wrote aletter to President Gibson
(07:36):
after his visit a couple weeksago to us just talking about
kind of where we are right nowand to allow Christ Greenfield
to clarify our intentions.
And so I'm going to get intothat.
President Gibson and I havesome kind of niceties to him.
He's a dear brother in Christ.
So here's the commitments.
Under your advice, I'm makingthese commitments to you in the
(07:59):
hopes of increasing unity in theadvancement of the gospel in
the LCMS.
One I am no longer going to bediscussing LCMS pastoral
formation on my weekly podcast,lead Time and the Tim Allman
podcast.
Now I have a lot of guests thatare lined up on this podcast
into the future.
Many of them care about thistopic.
(08:20):
What I am committing to is I'mnot going to add any of my
opinion.
I've shared what I need toshare into the future, as folks
are guests on my podcast, butthis will not be something that
I or Jack are actively talkingabout on a consistent basis.
Point number two to the best ofour ability, we will remove
(08:43):
past podcasts that highlightedpastoral formation in the LCMS.
Point number three I will nolonger be discussing or publicly
promoting on my podcastnon-synod-approved lay
leadership development trainingprograms, especially including
Luther House of Study or theCenter for Missional and
Pastoral Formation.
Number four commitment on anupcoming lead time podcast.
I will read this letter, whichI'm doing right now, and
(09:04):
publicly ask to be forgiven forcausing any appearance of
division in the LCMS.
Now my letter goes on here.
I have seen the power ofpodcasts, especially long-form
podcasts, and building bridgesacross various contexts in the
LCMS.
I have sought to ask questionsand discuss LCMS plans for the
quantity of pastors needed nowand into the future.
Nonetheless, I am aware thatour desire to publicly discuss
(09:26):
controversial topics can createthe appearance of divisiveness.
This is not our intent.
We have simply wanted to sharediverse perspectives on topics
of adiaphora across the LCMS.
President Gibson, you haverecently made me aware of a
portion of the LCMS InternetUsage Policy Council of
President Manual so I wasn'taware of this which states in
(09:48):
the case of using the internetto express dissent, the
appropriate district presidentwill remind the worker of his or
her doctrinal commitments as amember of the Synod and of LCMS
bylaw.
So to remind them of LCMS bylaw1.8 on the topic of dissent, it
would also be helpful to sharethe CCM opinion, which I'm going
(10:10):
to read here in just a second,on the fellowship of peers Based
on this policy.
I say you state, presidentGibson, you state that some of
our content may be breaking theinternet usage policy and I was
unaware of this policy.
Also, you have made me aware ofthe formal dissent process
found on page 36 of the 2023LCMS handbook.
(10:32):
My congregation and I willprayerfully be considering how
the formal dissent process couldbe engaged in the coming days.
I believe a private gatheringand this is very important,
private, not public, not apodcast a private gathering of a
fellowship of peers as outlinedin the dissent process, with
diverse perspectives on thetopic of pastoral formation in
(10:53):
the LCMS, will produce the fruitof unity.
The Commission on ConstitutionalMatters, so CCM, of Synod has
produced a wonderful documenthighlighting the effectiveness
of the dissent process.
It highlights the CTCR reportwhich stated the Synod may be in
error on some point of doctrineor practice, but the dissenter
(11:15):
may also be in error.
The process seeks to protectnot only the conscience of the
dissenter, but also theconsciences of those who believe
that the position of the synodis not in error or who are still
deliberating the matter.
It upholds the necessary rightand responsibility of expressing
dissent, while also seeking toensure that our life together,
(11:37):
within the fellowship of thesynod, is preserved with as
great a degree of peace andunity as possible.
And then I write I fullysubscribe to this perspective
and I'm grateful for the CCM andCTCR for their work over the
years creating the space forbrotherly dissent.
I also agree, coming down thehomestretch here.
I also agree with the wordsquoted in the CCM opinion of our
(11:58):
LCMS founding father one of ourfounding fathers, cfw Walther,
who wrote in his 1879 essay tothe first Iowa district
convention two men this is toquote Walther now two men in a
synod or district may disagreeabout something, and that
disagreement can easily become afire that inflames the entire
synod or district, for both ofthem then often try to gather
(12:21):
support for their own position.
We cannot prevent bitterthoughts from arising.
Unfortunately our hearts aresuch touchy tender that such
sparks can immediately start afire.
But we should immediately getwater and put it out.
And then this is my close herethis letter is an attempt to use
the water of our sharedidentity in baptism and shared
(12:45):
subscribers to Scripture and theLutheran confessions to put the
fire out on the touchy andnuanced conversation of pastoral
formation in the LCMS.
This letter and this podcast isa prayer for a fellowship of
peers with diverse perspectivesto continue to work together on
solving our need for morepastors in vacant pulpits and
(13:06):
pulpits yet to be filled.
Finally, I have no intention ofleaving the Lutheran Church.
Missouri Synod.
Christ Greenfield LutheranChurch, I believe, feels the
same as you're going to hearfrom Chris here as a
third-generation LCMS pastor.
This church body is my familyand I'm praying that various
family members can forgive mefor causing division.
We are not enemies, we'rebrothers and sisters in Christ,
(13:27):
united on our shared mission ofconfessing Christ and making Him
known.
And then I end with Christ isrisen.
He is risen, indeed, hallelujah.
And so I guess, chris, before Iget your kind of response to
that, we're going to beexploring the formal dissent
process.
I don't, frankly, know if thereare others.
You could reach out to me attallman at cglchurchorg if
(13:49):
you've walked this path.
But I'll be working withPresident Gibson to set up a
fellowship, a private fellowshipof peers, to privately talk
about pastoral formation, andthat will be sometime in the
fall, and then we'll take ournext steps from there.
But I hope this letter and eventhis podcast, this conversation
(14:12):
, can allow us to just breatheand come together and care for
one another.
Because what we agree on, chris, is way, way more than what we
are divided on Our commonconfession of Christ crucified,
the way we talk about how Godspeaks through law and gospel
and the Word and Sacrament, andneeding more pastors for Word
(14:33):
and Sacrament work.
This has just been our heart'scry, not just for us but for the
wider church over 700 pulpitsthat are yet to be filled, and
not to mention the churches thatneed to be started.
So praying that theconversation can continue in a
healthy way.
As I've said many, many times,chris, I love our seminaries.
(14:54):
I am a graduate, I went throughour system.
I love our universities.
Praise be to God, you know.
And I um doing a visit toConcordia, nebraska, this fall
for my son to explore, uh,playing football, running track,
but also the pre-seminaryprogram there in the, in the
potential that he ended up maybein a pastor as well.
(15:16):
And uh, for our young people, I, I think for sure, go to the
seminaries.
They're both fantastic, led bywonderful, wonderful leaders.
This is not an either-orconversation.
We've been trying to put it asa both-and kind of conversation
to move the gospel forward.
So that's all I got to sayabout that, chris.
What's your response, bud?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
I just also appreciate your passion for
raising up future leaders, tim.
I know as part of this churchwe've had a number of vicars
come in for seminary, like bothin my time here and in the time
leading up to it.
A number of guys that I canthink of that are pastors
elsewhere now have come throughand spent a year here and just
(15:58):
learned alongside a number ofpeople here and it's just been,
you know, kind of fun even toreflect back on the different
guys that you know have comehere and where they are now.
I think we we value like somuch being part of a wider
church body, right, that sharesbeliefs.
I think there's a lot of powerthat comes in that and a lot of
(16:20):
benefits to us as a church thatwe value so much and continue to
appreciate just being a memberof the LCMS and all that comes
with that.
I think the one word that we arefocused on a little bit is like
trying not to create discord,right, so we want to create
dialogue but not discord, and Ithink also clarifying just roles
(16:44):
of different leaders that wehave in the church, including
the gentleman you were talkingabout, like clarifying what his
role is is one of the thingsthat we're looking to do as part
of this.
We were obviously not ordaininganybody that's gone through not
appropriate training.
We value the training thatcomes with being a pastor in the
(17:07):
synod and so like we're not, asa church, ordaining anybody
that hasn't gone through thatthat training.
So look forward to continuingto have the dialogue about what
future leadership developmentlooks like, um and kind of again
appreciating you being willingto have such passion around that
(17:29):
and continuing to drive thatconversation in the appropriate
forums.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, no thanks, chris, it's a.
It's a lot of fun.
You know this is a not nobodyhere at our church or any any
church in the LCMS is doing itbecause it's a job.
You know this is uh, nobodyhere at our church or any any
church in the LCMS is doing itbecause it's a job.
You know this is a calling and,um, we take the call very, very
serious and a local church.
You know, this.
(17:53):
I'm a reading CFW author and Iwon't go off too much here to
close, but uh, what a unique,unique character he was in our,
in our church.
I don't know how much you knowabout the origin story we've had
.
We've had some folks on talkingabout Walther and the Stephan
struggles, the bishop who kindof led our group over here and
(18:15):
then had some kind of moneypower control struggles, and
then CFW Arthur being a leaderthat kind of held the church
together and his heart was thelocal congregation, right.
Whatever it takes to allow allof the priesthood to use all of
(18:35):
her gifts.
It sounds a lot like Luther,right?
This is one of Luther's mainproponents is you need pastors,
and I think on our best dayspastors are here, yes, to bring
word and sacrament, but toprotect and elevate the voice of
the laity, everyone else, allof the priesthood, to equip and
(18:56):
empower them.
Ephesians, chapter four.
But then also, this isn't anykind of healthy church body or
local congregation, right.
Then the honor comes back theother way.
The laity, the priesthood ofall believers, are there to give
honor and respect to the officeof holy ministry.
We walk that line.
(19:17):
They were kind of amazed overin Germany and in Europe, when a
guy by the name of Walter, butalso Winnikin, went over there
and they told this story of howare you guys growing so fast?
And that's basically what theysaid about the early LCMS.
Well, it's because we honor oneanother, pastor and people
working together to elevate thename of Jesus, so pretty special
(19:40):
.
I'm grateful for all of ourleaders and all of our different
roles in the LCMS and we commithere on Lead Time to continue
to have fruitful, provocative.
There's a lot that we can talkabout as it relates because I'm
going to keep talking abouthealthy culture and systems and
structures and obviously whatleadership looks like.
(20:00):
Pastoral leadership looks like.
None of that's off the table.
We're just not going to talkanymore about the pastoral
formation specifics in the LCMS.
This is a lead time.
Please like, subscribe, commentwherever it is you take in
these podcasts and we pray thatthe joy of Jesus is your
strength and Chris, you're adear brother in Christ and thank
(20:21):
you for your leadership here atChrist Greenfield.
It's a good day.
Go make it a great day.
Thanks, chris.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You've been listening to Lead Time, a podcast of the
Unite Leadership Collective.
The ULC's mission is tocollaborate with the local
church to discover, develop anddeploy leaders through biblical
Lutheran doctrine and innovativemethods Lutheran doctrine and
innovative methods To partnerwith us in this gospel message.
Subscribe to our channel, thengo to theuniteleadershiporg to
(20:47):
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.
Thanks for listening and staytuned for next week's episode.
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