February 10, 2020 • 34 mins
Jack talks with Chad Peterman, who explains how he and his managers go about getting the right people, building the culture, and then growing people within the culture. Peterman explains is organization’s employee focus, saying that the speed at which your company grows is in the hands of your people. “When you grow them,” he says, “they grow your company.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Jack tester, welcome to another episode of leadership
lounge.
Here we are.
It's a brisk morning.
It's November.
It's unseasonably cold outside,15 degrees on the way to work.
But it's great here because it'ssitting across the table from me
is Chad Peterman.
How you doing?
Chat?
Good.
Thanks for having me.
I'm glad you're here and you'rein town.
For what reason?
Uh, we are here at the, uh, atNexstars business planning
(00:32):
workshop, right?
Building a plan for next year.
Yeah.
Good works exciting.
And I, and I knew, I, I lookedat her attendee list and I
looked at it and said, ah, Chad,I know you guys got a good story
and, um, I've heard some goodthings about you from some of
our coaches and of course I bumpinto you at meetings and, and
uh, you've done a lot ofinteresting things here
recently, so I figured out that,Hey, let's talk.
(00:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sounds great.
So let's do that.
So here's what I'd like peopleto, uh, to kind of set, it's
kind of a, give us a sense of,of, of the business today.
Then when we go back a few yearsand kind of fill in the journey,
is that okay?
Absolutely.
Tell us about Peterman rightnow.
Yeah.
Peterman right now is in a, in avery good place.
Um, and, and I say we're in avery good place because of the
(01:15):
people that we have on our team,a huge emphasis.
And I think the catalyst to ourgrowth over the past really
three to four years, uh, hasbeen one getting the right
people, um, building the cultureand then growing those people
within that culture.
Cool.
We're going to talk about someof that journey, but give us an
(01:35):
idea just for a sense of place.
Where's your business?
How big is it, et cetera.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, uh, we are, uh, we shouldfinish this year right around 21
million.
Um, we've got 122 people, um,between, um, our primary
location is in Indianapolis andwe serve pretty much all the
surrounding area.
(01:56):
Okay.
Um, we have a satellite locationin Columbus, Indiana, which is
about 45 minutes to an hourSouth of Indy.
Um, and then we have a freestanding location in Lafayette,
Indiana.
Um, which is about an hour, Ithink it's an hour, actually, a
different sort of satellite andfreestanding.
So the satellite, a freestanding is, they have a general
(02:16):
manager up there.
They have their own installers,got it.
Own sales guy, all thatColumbus.
Um, with being situated on theSouth side of Indy, we're able
to really service Columbuspretty easily due to the, the
highway system.
All right.
So it's just kind of employeesfloat.
Yup, exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, very cool.
So, and you work as plumbing andHVC.
Yes, we do a plumbing HPAC.
(02:38):
Um, and then also along with theplumbing, the drains and
excavation.
Right.
And, and you have a, a part ofyour business that's, you know,
Nexstar is, uh, is about servicereplacement, but you have a
little piece of, not a little, Idon't want to minimize it, but
part of your businesses is, wasa commercial rehab work.
Yup, exactly.
So, um, my dad, uh, that's kindof a part of how he got started
back in 80 was making someconnections with some of these,
(03:02):
uh, general contractors anddevelopers where, uh, they buy
apartment complexes go in, fixthem up.
Um, and so our part on theheating side is we would go in
and replace, got all thesystems.
So we still do that a little bittoday.
Of the 21 million roughly howmuch would that do for the 21
million this year?
I don't want to shortchange dad.
That's his department.
Uh, he'll finish a little over 3million this year.
(03:23):
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Very cool.
So 21 minute million dollarbusiness, 3 million of which is
kind of outside the servicereplacement model.
Got it.
All right.
And when did you start in thebusiness because people don't
know you, but you're young guy.
I mean for me, you look young,right?
When did you start in thebusiness?
So I graduated college in 2009,uh, and after, after that, after
(03:44):
that I went out and, uh, Iworked completely out of the
industry, um, completely out ofthe state.
Uh, I moved to Charlotte.
I lived there for a couple ofyears.
Um, and then in 2011 I came backhome, um, and started in the
business.
Let me ask a question before weget there.
Why'd you leave?
Why'd you first sales?
Why you left and didn't comeright into Peter and right away?
(04:04):
Yeah.
So, um, with this being atechnical industry, uh, I am the
furthest thing from technicallysound.
Um, and I think I was a bitintimidated.
Uh, dad was good at that stuff.
My brother's good at that stuff.
And you never gravitated,gravitated toward it as a young
person?
Absolutely not.
Yeah.
I was, by the way, I knowexactly how that feels.
Yeah.
I was, I was more of the a, Iwas more of the read a book, uh,
(04:27):
type guy, uh, as opposed to, uh,going out and building a table
or something like that.
So, uh, that, uh, yeah, man, Irelate.
Uh, so that, uh, that got memoving kind of wanting to
establish my own thing.
I think that's been a, um, sothe, the technical work of
Peterman really had no appeal.
Absolutely not.
(04:47):
I mean the respected, I know youdid, but as far as getting in
there and certain fittings andall that, Jesus didn't do any of
that stuff.
Right.
So, so what'd you do inCharlotte?
So I worked for a, a company,uh, that gave me a start.
I actually connected with my,with my first boss, the, uh, the
other day I'm on LinkedIn, but,um, and said hi to her.
But, uh, it was a company basedout of Pennsylvania.
(05:08):
Uh, they manufactured adhesive.
Um, and I worked primarily, theyhad a bunch of different
divisions.
I worked primarily in the paperand packaging industry, so I was
going into big paper mills, um,and big packaging places and
really working to make sure thattheir needs were met when it
came to big splicing tapes anddifferent things like that.
This guy, account rep.
yeah.
More so account rep than salesguy.
(05:30):
Yeah, I would say I got it.
Yeah.
All right.
Very good.
So he did that for a couple ofyears and, and uh, kind of went
out on your own and left thefamily, left the nest so to
speak.
Absolutely.
And then, but you came back.
Yup.
W what, what happened?
Yeah, so I think, uh, I think Igot the, uh, somewhat of the
itch to come back because I'dalways kind of identified going
(05:52):
and getting more schooling.
Uh, as I said, you know, kind ofthe, uh, read a book, uh, that
was always appealing.
Um, and so that was kind ofinteresting.
And then I started as I kind ofgot that itch and kind of
understood more about the realworld, if you will, and business
and stuff.
Then I started to take more ofan interest in, well, what is
dad doing?
Um, and when I tell you I had nolike knowledge of the industry.
(06:14):
Like I couldn't tell you thedifference between air
conditioner and a heat pump.
Even growing up in it, my dadhad done this, that you started
the company three months beforeI was born.
So literally my entire life.
Um, and not knowing any of that.
Um, I'd started to really takean interest in it.
Like, what's he doing?
Why are we doing this?
And I can tell you that thefirst part, uh, probably the
(06:36):
summer, uh, I left in August ofOh nine and came back in August
of 2011.
I would say that summer of 2011was really when I kind of, uh,
you know, got online and said,Hey, where's dad's, where's
dad's company?
You know, can we find this?
Um, and started to look, okay,search engine.
Yeah, it'd be nice to be seenhere.
I don't see him.
(06:57):
Well, what, how do you, how doyou raise the ranking?
How do you bring, so I startedreading a book on ad words and
how to boost the website up andall of this stuff, and really
just started to kind ofpiecemeal it.
Um, when I first came back, Ikind of rebuilt the website.
Uh, what'd you come back to do?
Well, that was the big questionaround the office was, you know,
(07:18):
with an office of 20 some oddpeople, it's like, Oh, the owner
son's coming back was what's hegoing to do?
Kill the fat and calf.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I'm not a, you know, it waskind of like, well what's he
gonna do?
And my dad's kind of answer was,well, I mean, there's plenty to
do around here.
He'll just find, you know, findsomething to do and kind of get
into it and see if, you know,see if that works.
(07:41):
Um, so when I first came back, Iwas kind of in the marketing
side.
Um, we had a guy who did some ofthat said, just figure it out,
son.
Yeah.
You know, here's an opportunity.
His business, I love you, trustyou, you know, I know you're a
talented young man.
Yeah.
Find, find your place in here.
He didn't say fixing ourwebsite.
No, no.
So I started out doing that.
I just said, Hey, I think wecan, I think this will help us.
(08:02):
He said, okay, sounds good.
So I kinda did that.
And then, um, I would go out oncalls with him and kind of see
what he was doing and I'd go outwith this sales guy and see what
he was doing.
Um, I eventually kind ofgravitated from just the
marketing too.
We had one sales guy at thetime, residential replacement
was not huge, so he was kind ofplaying comfort advisor slash
(08:23):
service manager slash operationsmanager.
And we really weren't big enoughto be kind of departmentalized
to have your total replacementrevenues, about 2 million bucks
at this time, probably betweenservice.
And we were just doing heatingat the same time.
Um, so yeah, we were, we were,uh, we were putting in some
systems and, and we would takecare of customers, but it wasn't
(08:43):
anything like that.
So, um, so yeah.
So then I started to gravitatetowards sales, did a little bit
of sales.
Um, about a year and a half inour sales guy quit, uh, the
weekend before Memorial day, I'min Indiana.
That's the start.
500.
Yeah, 500.
That's the start of, uh, the airconditioning season, the busy
(09:04):
season.
So he quits the Friday beforethat, uh, we're standing in the
hallway and, uh, well we onlyhave one sales guy now and he
doesn't know a whole ton.
So I became the sales guy as heused to do referencing herself
right now.
Yeah, exactly.
So I became the sales guy, um,very early on, uh, and just as
luck would have it, I think thatwas one of the hottest summers
(09:26):
on record in Indiana.
Uh, I still remember coming intomy desk and having like, just 10
to 15 quotes just all over mydesk.
Like I'm not even really surewhat we're doing here.
Um, but, uh, just trying to makeit and make it work and, uh, and
figure things out along the way.
So it's kind of funny to thinkback on, on that time like, Oh,
(09:46):
we didn't, we didn't, uh, we'vesure have learned a lot, that's
for sure.
That's cool.
Youthful energy is a good thing.
Yeah.
Just, yeah.
Well, we may screw this up, butit'll be all right.
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So, so, so you started to get involved in the
business.
It started marketing, it kindagot sales.
Um, did am I hearing you likethat you, you like the customer
part of this business too?
Is that what I'm, or just thecause that's a service
replacement
Speaker 1 (10:10):
side, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so we started to, uh,started to take a little bit
more of a focus there, uh, as,as I got more in depth in the
business and kind of learn newas long warm weather, family
video.
Brother Tyler is absolutely mybrother's three years younger
than I.
He came, uh, I believe it was2013 graduated from university
(10:31):
of Indianapolis and he cameright in the business.
I think he graduated in Decemberand he started right away right
away.
January.
You were there a couple of yearsand he sh they need any roles in
, um, and uh, I would say, uh,you asked me about kind of what
I did at first.
Um, he, uh, we kind of threw himin.
We were doing a, a, at that timewe were doing a lot of new
construction.
We were doing a 400 unitapartment complex in downtown
(10:54):
Indianapolis and dad sent himout there to run that.
Uh, so kind of threw himprobably more into the fire than
I.
um, but I'm a little easy tobuild a website then.
Yeah.
Then run a project.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
He probably maybe doesn't haveall that much potential.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah.
Let's leave it where it is.
Alright.
So, so, so this is, so I'm justkind of getting a feel for
things, you know,$2 millionbusiness in 11 year, 21 today.
Um, a lot happened between nowand then.
And also when you came in thebusiness, your father and mother
were a hundred percent owners ofthe business.
Absolutely.
With the owner operators andsince 11 when you came in and
(11:34):
your brother in 13, that'stransition to transitioned
relatively recently.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's just, let's just talkabout kind of your maturation,
um, the things that, that, thatfrom when you started after that
hot summer, you know, where werethe inflection points in this
business where you reallystarted to some accelerated
growth
Speaker 1 (11:54):
in professionalism?
Where did that happen?
Yeah.
So I would say I'm kind ofworking backwards from when we
joined Nexstar.
Obviously that's been kind ofour launching pad.
But before that, that was 2015,uh, when we were in 15, we did a
15 was a big year, newconstruction.
I think we hit 10 million in 15.
(12:15):
Uh, and then we fell back as wekind of pulled new construction
off back to about seven and ahalf million in 16.
Um, but a couple of years beforethat.
Um, and uh, I have to reallythink some of really our next,
our members now because, um, afew years before that they
started to plant those seeds of,Hey, you ought to check this
out.
And I think they, um, so they,uh, the first one was, uh, Joe
(12:40):
Huck, uh, with, uh, withWilliams.
Um, I had a, I had talked to himand he said, you know, that may
be, uh, you may want to checkthat out.
I think at the whatever year.
Uh, the super meeting was inIndianapolis was, uh, we had a,
we had chatted and he said, youmay want to check that out, or
they're in town.
And as with any new idea, whenyou're in the midst of
(13:00):
everything, it's like in one earout the other, like, okay.
And then, uh, we had a suppliertake us over to, uh, Cincinnati.
Um, and, uh, this was probablyin April of 15.
Took us over to Apollo home.
Uh, Jamie Gertz and over therewas, was kind enough to show us
around and I can honestly say Ileft there and my mind, uh, I
(13:23):
was excited.
Um, and also anxious.
I said, I want, uh, I wantsomething that looks like that.
Um, and as we traveled back toCincinnati, uh, or from
Cincinnati, uh, with dad, Icould see his apprehension to
like, well, that looks like, uh,you know, that's, that's a lot
of people.
That's a lot of of stuff.
And, uh, it was the next day,uh, he, myself and my brother
(13:48):
sat in his office and we kind ofhad the talk of, you know,
Nexstars and investment.
Um, right after that, next day,next door is a big investment.
Um, it's going to take a lot of,you know, us doing a lot of work
that changing things, makingthings better.
But if we want to grow aresidential business, I think
it's the thing that we need todo.
(14:09):
And I'm so grateful that, youknow, that conversation could
have went a bunch of differentways.
Hey, we're not invest in thatmoney.
This is the way of the company.
Um, and he was gracious enoughto say, if you guys want to take
it that direction, I'll be hereto support you.
Um, and I still think back onthat, um, a lot, uh, because
that meant the world to me,knowing that he put the
(14:31):
confidence in us to take this,uh, to new Heights.
So it's been a fun ride.
It's been fun to see him, uh,you know, knowing that he
started the company in the backof his garage.
Um, and now, you know, uh, weserve 122 employees is pretty
cool.
It is from one gratitude for,yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
A lot of pride.
No doubt.
No doubt in that.
So, so that was in 2015?
Yeah.
So, okay.
Um, so tell us, you know, um,yeah, as you've, you know, a
business isn't growing unlessleader grows.
Absolutely.
Right.
So, and I know your father was agood leader and I, but I got the
sense that in fact I just did apodcast and I'm not sure if
it'll come up before or afterthis one, but in the, the, the
(15:15):
young man on the podcast saidthere was a time where he felt
he was in growth mode and hisfather rightfully so, was kind
of more toward the end of hiscareer.
And as it relates to his, hisbusiness, he was more in protect
mode.
I mean, he didn't want to losewhat he had.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
And there's a, and there's amindset that comes in when
(15:36):
you're trying to protect whatyou have, which is, you know,
kind of being cautious, beingconservative, not, not stepping
out, not making big investments,you know, all this stuff.
Because, you know, when you'remid sixties, you don't have a
lot of time to make up for a bigloss versus when you're a little
thirties, you know, 30 year oldguys and lucky, you know, I got
a lot of runway here.
(15:57):
Yeah.
I'm excited.
Yeah.
Is that kind of how it would,how it felt at that point in
2015 in your business?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, so, um, as we started in the next star dad's
advice, um, it's, it's, uh, kindof subsided a little bit, um, as
we, as we continue to grow, buthis advice was never grow too
fast, don't grow too fast.
Um, you know, that's where youget in trouble.
And, and he, you know, that washis motto for, you know, so
(16:23):
naturally you went from two to$21 million.
Exactly.
So we followed his advice, uh,now, um, and so that was always
his advice.
And I think the thing that weunlocked in our business, um,
you know, you mentioned there,uh, you know, the leader's got
to grow.
Um, and I think I realized thatvery early on as we take on this
next door.
Um, challenge, um, I'm going tohave to become a better leader.
(16:43):
And I think if I'm honest withmyself in 15 and, and probably
some of the people that werewith us then, you know, I don't
know that I was the leader ofthe company.
I think I was just the son ofthe owner.
And yeah, you've got a lot ofresponsibility because of your
last name and that's perfectlyfine.
And I think I took the challengeupon myself that, you know,
whether it's reading, whetherit's working on different
(17:04):
things, whether it's getting toa conference, a seminar, or just
really taking personal inventoryof my leadership abilities.
Um, and when I started to dothat, I think the one thing that
I, that I learned or came tolearn was that I need to spread
that knowledge.
I need to begin to grow ourpeople.
Um, because if this company'sgoing to grow, we're going to
(17:26):
need people that can not lead aservice department of five.
They need to be able to lead oneof 30.
And as we grew people, um,
Speaker 2 (17:36):
we,
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I figured out that dad's advice of don't grow too
fast.
Was ultimately the speed that atwith which your company grows is
in the hands of your people, God.
And when you grow faster thanyour people grow, is that what
I'm hearing?
Well, I think what, what happensis when you grow them, they grow
(17:59):
your company.
Got it.
And you know, dad and my brotherand I were having a, uh, um, uh,
sit down after work one day andwe were just talking and you
know, this was about maybe abouta year ago or so.
Um, and um, you know, he saidthe same thing and I had been
putting these pieces togetherand he said, you know, we just,
(18:20):
we just don't want to grow toofast.
We just want to, you know, becareful.
And this was after years of, Ithink we grew 30% than 50%.
Um, and then we're on pace againfor, uh, over 30% growth.
But, um, he said, he said thatin my response was just kind of
a, uh, immediate reaction.
I just said, dad, I can't stopit.
I cannot stop the growth.
(18:42):
And since you told him, yeah.
And it just kinda came out of meand then I started to kind of
put it and he just kind oflooked at me kind of weird.
Like what the heck?
Tint of anger or was it just aor is it, no, just more
aggressive when you send it,right.
Yeah.
More, more so frustration.
Like I can't stop it.
And as I went on to explainmyself, the can't stop piece of
(19:04):
it was if we continue to pourinto our people and grow them, I
can't put a stop to thetechnician that wants to do 30%
better than he did last year.
Yeah.
I can't put a stop to the, youknow, to the customer service
rep that wants to book morecalls and wants to take care of
more customers and theinstallers who want to perfect
(19:26):
their install.
I can't stop that.
And so long as they want to keepgrowing that they're going to
grow our company, it's our jobto support them however it is
that they need support it.
Right, right.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And that's it.
I like what you're saying.
I'm almost like you'reapologizing and something I just
can't help it.
(19:47):
Yeah.
Right.
This is a result of what we'redoing here.
Yeah, exactly.
Not coercion on my part and I'mnot cracking the whip and you
know, you know, we, and we hearda nice message and I think
that's a really, reallyimportant lesson that you just
reinforced there.
You know, we just had JimCollins in[inaudible] and uh,
he, you know, he talked aboutthese attributes to these
(20:07):
internally great companies andone of the attributes was this
20 mile March idea.
This idea that, that eventhrough bad times you endeavor
to grow.
You do grow.
Yeah.
And there's times during goodtimes, what do you do?
You do throttle it back a littlebit, but I liked the, the, the
qualifier you put on there isthat when the gross emanating
from the desires of of talentedpeople to do builders, a
(20:29):
technician to understand that,Hey boss, I got capacity to
manage.
I know there's four, three orfour people, you know, take on
new responsibilities.
Um, it's kind of a naturaloffshoot of that.
And it's not dangerous then.
No, right.
I mean, it's not dangerous froma operational side.
You still had a funded,absolutely.
No, there's a, that's
Speaker 2 (20:47):
a whole different deal, right?
You gotta be profitable and yougotta have cash and you know,
but, but as far as, you know,the wheels coming off the
business as far as, you know, itbeing unwieldy and, and out of
control and people feeling thatdo not support it because you've
got too many people in themanagers are spread too thin and
you know, then you don't havethose problems of growth, if
that makes any sense.
(21:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's cool.
Yeah, that's really, that's aninteresting story.
So when you say grow people,that's, you know, that's a broad
term.
Absolutely.
You know, it's a, it's a, and,and I would say that if I asked
virtually any owner, are yougrowing your people, every owner
could somehow think back andsay, yeah, I am.
(21:28):
But it's not that, but they'renot.
So what are some of the specificthings you did that, that would
help us understand how to definethat in your, in your ideas?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Absolutely.
So, um, I, I think it is athing.
We are not perfect.
Um, and we have areas wherewe're working on an issue right
now where we did not have enoughsupport for our technicians.
And so really building out thatinfrastructure, I think that's
the one thing, um, as peoplegrow, um, having that, where do
you want to go?
(21:57):
Um, and then you may have tobuild those layers of support
before you need them so that youdon't run into something where
you're not supporting people.
Um, a couple of the things thatwe do that I, I'm really excited
about and, uh, we've actually,we just hit a year of it.
Um, I teach a bimonthly, um, uh,once at the beginning of the
(22:18):
month, once at the end, aleadership class.
So, um, in the morning for aboutan hour, uh, we've kind of
paired it down to about an hour.
Um, I teach everything that Ilearn.
Uh, I've read a ton of books andlistened to a bunch of podcasts
and all kinds of stuff.
Um, and I take that knowledgeand I give it to our managers,
(22:38):
give it to our people field andwhoever wants to attend.
So that 10 enrollment, yeah.
You just come, uh, open micnight.
Absolutely.
Seven in the morning.
Absolutely.
Um, and uh, so we do that andthen we take that information
because two thirds of our peopleare out on the road.
We turn that into and we putthat information out on our
podcast so that they can listento it while they're in the truck
(22:59):
and drive into a customer'shome.
And, and what, what have you.
Um, and I think that that isjust one example.
Um, I think the one on onemeetings are a huge deal.
Um, with the ones we, weprovide.
So you do a one was standingweekly, one on one.
Every employee gets that.
Uh, not weekly.
(23:20):
That's the one we're working on.
Um, so actually we have one onones.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, no, you're good.
Sorry.
Um, the, um, the one on ones area critical piece.
I'm a firm believer that if wewant to grow people, you grow
them in a one on one setting.
We don't grow them in a service,meaning we don't grow them in an
all company meeting.
We grow them one-to-one.
Um, and, and that's where we'regoing to uncover what people are
(23:41):
struggling with and then helpthem with what they need.
Um, the, uh, for 20, 20, our bigmanagement goal is we're
committing to a number ofone-on-one goals.
So that will be our 20 mileMarch.
So somebody will say, if I'm anemployee and it's a 52 week
(24:03):
year, every employee is going togive 35 weekly one on ones is LJ
, that what I'm hearing?
Uh, I don't know about 35.
Uh, that made a number of, yeah,yeah.
Yeah.
So very similar.
So we're going to set a biggoal.
Um, we're still working throughthe numbers.
Um, but what is that goal asmanagement that we're going to
agree to?
We're going to have this mini.
Um, and really I think thebiggest thing of that is keeping
(24:24):
it top of mind.
Um, I, I was reading the otherday, I believe it was Simon
Sinek that said, you know, as amanager, you're not going to
grow the company.
You're going to grow the peoplewho then go out and do the work
that grow the company.
And to me that one on one isthat conduit between a manager
and a frontline employee, thatthat's where we're going to grow
(24:45):
that employee to go continue togrow out there.
So I can't agree with you more.
Yeah, I just can't, but youknow, here's the, here's the,
the, the secret sauce to that.
A part of it is, is that you asa manager have to have something
off or two absolutely.
In that one on one.
So the fact that you'relistening to a podcast and
consuming leadership materialand reflecting on your journey
(25:06):
and, and, and you know, you're abetter person, a deeper thinker,
a more thoughtful person todaythan you were two months ago.
Now those one-on-ones become nota routine.
It's not a, it's not what Ialways said with these
one-on-ones that we provide.
It's not a management activity.
It's a leadership developmenteffort.
(25:26):
Absolutely.
Go into it.
That mindset, not how do Imanage your activity versus how
do I grow your thinking?
That's then it's a wholedifferent meeting.
Yep.
Right.
It's a whole different thing.
Absolutely.
I'm a, I'm a firm believer in,just to piggyback off what you
said, I I a common message that,uh, a lot of my managers here,
they don't, I don't know thatthey necessarily like to hear
it, but a, a common message isif you do more leading, I'm
(25:51):
going to guarantee you can doless managing.
Um, and uh, yeah.
Uh, you know, if we lead ourpeople, they, they will follow
the processes they will followbecause they're not at that
point in time.
If they view you as a leaderthat I can follow into anywhere
and I'm going to be safe.
They start to follow you and notfollow the process.
(26:15):
Yeah.
No one wants to follow aprocess.
I was just talking to a managerthis morning about that.
I said, you're doing a great jobof leading because they don't
want to follow the process.
We need them to follow you.
And that one-on-one to me iswhere like you said, we're
connecting, we're growing.
People were, and they'reunderstanding that we care about
them.
It's a safe place.
It's all right to make amistake.
(26:36):
We understand you're growing.
What help can I give you?
What support can I give you?
And then all of a sudden, thoselittle that he's not clocking
in, right?
He's not doing his options ride.
He's not, you know, he's notfollowing the greet step.
He's not doing all these things.
All of those things start totake care of themselves because
he wants to make you proud.
(26:56):
He wants to make sure he knowsthat you have a vested interest
in him and he wants to make surethat it's reciprocated.
Um, and so we've seen a lot ofthat.
It's just a tough transitionbecause you as a manager have to
put yourself out there a littlebit.
You've gotta be willing to takea risk that this 15 minute
conversation, while it may notmake an impact today, we're
(27:17):
playing the long game.
Leadership is a long game.
Um, and growing a company is along game, right?
If you're looking to get richtomorrow, you're going to
struggle and you're not going toimpact a whole lot of people.
That's really cool.
That's really cool.
They say that the most importantthings, you know, so many things
in business.
Um, we want the immediate, uh,hit absolutely want the buzz.
(27:39):
We want the, the rush, you know,that we do something.
And while there's a differencetomorrow and, and th and often
in times in our business we cando things like that.
Yeah.
All of a sudden you start cameraguy and every, every main line,
Oh my gosh, what happened?
You know, it's like immediate,right?
But you know, developing peopleis, it's one of those things
that, that it's, it all of asudden it come, it compounds.
(28:01):
Yeah.
Like, you know, you look backall of a sudden it's like, wait
a minute, look where we are.
And it feels like it's acompounded effect.
Delayed six months.
Yup.
If that makes any sense.
Absolutely.
You got to have the, you got tohave the fortitude to continue
it, right?
Yeah.
Could we have to have goodpeople to, to start?
I mean, there's a lot of thingsyou've got to have, but you know
(28:22):
, clearly, you know, I just wantto emphasize against yet that,
you know, your one-on-ones willbe awesome, are awesome because
of the work you're doing outsideof the one-on-ones to grow
yourself.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that that's kind ofthe challenge that we give to,
to all our managers is, uh,another thing I say to them that
they probably have a whole listof these things that I say to
(28:43):
them.
They're like, okay, here he goesagain.
Um, but it's, you know, yougotta lead yourself before you
can lead others.
And part of leadership and, um,your own personal development.
That's leadership.
Eat yourself.
Absolutely.
Give me a, and um, right now I,um, if you're a minister, I'm
signing up on your church.
Just don't do it right now.
(29:04):
I'm a parishioner of the ChadPeterman school leadership.
What does that mean to you?
Uh, so leadership of yourself is, um, I, I read this somewhere
is, uh, you know, be the person,uh, start being the person today
that you want to be tomorrow.
Um, and so there's a, um, youknow, I talk a lot about in our
leadership class, whether it's,it's journaling in the morning,
(29:26):
whether it's, you know, gettingyour, getting your mindset right
, uh, having a routine, all ofthese things start to add up.
But you know, just because youjournal doesn't make you a
better leader.
Um, it's a compounding effect ofwhen you start to instill these
habits within yourself, youbecome a leader because people
start watching people startunderstanding that, Hey, that
(29:48):
guy's really, you know, he's,he's, he's investing in himself.
He's, he's moving along thatpath.
And that's what I tried to telltoo.
You know, some of our frontlineguys who, you know, may not
consider themselves a leader.
You are a leader every day byyour actions and how you help
others.
And if you keep that front andcenter, you're always a leader
(30:09):
because people are alwayswatching.
Um, and so leadership personallyto me is the foundation of any
leadership.
You're going to do a, you know,you don't see many great leaders
waking up at 10:00 AM they'regetting up early or getting the
day started there.
You know, they have that, theremay be some, but you know, who
(30:29):
knows.
Uh, but, uh,
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh, jimmied though.
Yeah, but you're leading here.
Here's the thing.
In the service business, andI'll talk about our business and
you know, maybe there's somemodels in other industries that,
but you know, to have a greatservice business, there's gotta
be a consistency and executionabsolutely right across the
board that, that, that whathappens at eight in the morning
(30:53):
happens at eight in the morningevery day in a good way, right?
It's, it's not erratic.
And so therefore, if we expectthat out of the behavior of our
employees, our behavior can't beerratic, even though we're not
doing the things that arerequired to be consistent.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
So I think that that controllingself, that modeling, you know,
the expectation, um, throughyour own behavior and
(31:15):
controlling yourself, um, sets atone in the business.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah.
Right.
I think it has to, and minestems from, um, I, I you think
back on your past and like,okay, how did I get here?
How did I, why did I, why do Ithink the way I do?
And I think that comes from asense of, you know, when you're
a second generation and you comein, especially as I came into a
group of 20, you got, you know,outside of my dad, there's 18
(31:39):
other people looking at yougoing, what are you going to do?
And so I think I learned veryearly on that my best path in
was to lead myself and show themthat I was, uh, earn their
respect.
And it was always defer to them.
You're the expert.
Just tell me how I can help you.
Yeah.
Um, and I, at the time I didn'trealize that I was doing it.
(32:02):
Um, looking back I realized thatI was indirectly doing that and
it's, it's all of a sudden kindof built on that.
Um, but you know, leadershipwhen it boils down is, is
service to others.
Um, and sometimes the, you know,the greatness, uh, service to
others you can do is be a goodexample of leadership.
Um, and sometimes we forget thatit's all, you know, try to make
(32:26):
them do what we need them to doand we forget about, well, maybe
being an example would be a goodstart.
That's so cool.
Oh man, I have really enjoyedthis.
Absolutely.
You got
Speaker 2 (32:40):
it going on there, man.
Yeah.
I appreciate it.
Thoughtful young guy that, uh, Ican tell you're a consumer of a
lot of leadership informationbecause there's a lot of things
I've heard here that, thatbetter leaders and myself have
uttered.
And so you can get yours wideopen.
Yeah, for sure.
Absolutely.
Well, well done.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with us.
Man.
I, your journey is fascinatingand we'll do this again.
(33:02):
Is that okay?
Absolutely.
Happy to share.
We had a business planningworkshop coming up that we need
to get you in there and uh, butI wanted just to sh people to
hear a little bit from you.
Absolutely appreciate it.
I loved it and I loved the, uh,the leadership examples and I'm
going to kind of summarize a fewthings that I took out of this
that I thought was great.
You know, obviously to grow abusiness you got to grow your
people, right?
(33:22):
Yeah.
And that was the, what you'vecommitted to do is, is really
investing in them.
You do what twice a monthleadership class that's open to
anybody.
Yup.
You're, you're modelingleadership development through
your one-on-ones of your, ofyour good folks, right?
Yeah.
And then you're, you're leadingyourself right through
(33:43):
discipline, through process,through, um, modeling the
consistency that you want inyour folks through your own
behavior.
Absolutely.
Well done man.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
This is a lot of lessons hereand I sure appreciate it and
thank you all for listening tothis very interesting episode.
Leadership lounges.
Jack tested with Chad Peterman,and we'll catch you next.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Thanks so much.
Jack tester, welcome to another episode of leadership
lounge.
Here we are.
It's a brisk morning.
It's November.
It's unseasonably cold outside,15 degrees on the way to work.
But it's great here because it'ssitting across the table from me
is Chad Peterman.
How you doing?
Chat?
Good.
Thanks for having me.
I'm glad you're here and you'rein town.
For what reason?
Uh, we are here at the, uh, atNexstars business planning
(00:32):
workshop, right?
Building a plan for next year.
Yeah.
Good works exciting.
And I, and I knew, I, I lookedat her attendee list and I
looked at it and said, ah, Chad,I know you guys got a good story
and, um, I've heard some goodthings about you from some of
our coaches and of course I bumpinto you at meetings and, and
uh, you've done a lot ofinteresting things here
recently, so I figured out that,Hey, let's talk.
(00:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sounds great.
So let's do that.
So here's what I'd like peopleto, uh, to kind of set, it's
kind of a, give us a sense of,of, of the business today.
Then when we go back a few yearsand kind of fill in the journey,
is that okay?
Absolutely.
Tell us about Peterman rightnow.
Yeah.
Peterman right now is in a, in avery good place.
Um, and, and I say we're in avery good place because of the
(01:15):
people that we have on our team,a huge emphasis.
And I think the catalyst to ourgrowth over the past really
three to four years, uh, hasbeen one getting the right
people, um, building the cultureand then growing those people
within that culture.
Cool.
We're going to talk about someof that journey, but give us an
(01:35):
idea just for a sense of place.
Where's your business?
How big is it, et cetera.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, uh, we are, uh, we shouldfinish this year right around 21
million.
Um, we've got 122 people, um,between, um, our primary
location is in Indianapolis andwe serve pretty much all the
surrounding area.
(01:56):
Okay.
Um, we have a satellite locationin Columbus, Indiana, which is
about 45 minutes to an hourSouth of Indy.
Um, and then we have a freestanding location in Lafayette,
Indiana.
Um, which is about an hour, Ithink it's an hour, actually, a
different sort of satellite andfreestanding.
So the satellite, a freestanding is, they have a general
(02:16):
manager up there.
They have their own installers,got it.
Own sales guy, all thatColumbus.
Um, with being situated on theSouth side of Indy, we're able
to really service Columbuspretty easily due to the, the
highway system.
All right.
So it's just kind of employeesfloat.
Yup, exactly.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, very cool.
So, and you work as plumbing andHVC.
Yes, we do a plumbing HPAC.
(02:38):
Um, and then also along with theplumbing, the drains and
excavation.
Right.
And, and you have a, a part ofyour business that's, you know,
Nexstar is, uh, is about servicereplacement, but you have a
little piece of, not a little, Idon't want to minimize it, but
part of your businesses is, wasa commercial rehab work.
Yup, exactly.
So, um, my dad, uh, that's kindof a part of how he got started
back in 80 was making someconnections with some of these,
(03:02):
uh, general contractors anddevelopers where, uh, they buy
apartment complexes go in, fixthem up.
Um, and so our part on theheating side is we would go in
and replace, got all thesystems.
So we still do that a little bittoday.
Of the 21 million roughly howmuch would that do for the 21
million this year?
I don't want to shortchange dad.
That's his department.
Uh, he'll finish a little over 3million this year.
(03:23):
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Very cool.
So 21 minute million dollarbusiness, 3 million of which is
kind of outside the servicereplacement model.
Got it.
All right.
And when did you start in thebusiness because people don't
know you, but you're young guy.
I mean for me, you look young,right?
When did you start in thebusiness?
So I graduated college in 2009,uh, and after, after that, after
(03:44):
that I went out and, uh, Iworked completely out of the
industry, um, completely out ofthe state.
Uh, I moved to Charlotte.
I lived there for a couple ofyears.
Um, and then in 2011 I came backhome, um, and started in the
business.
Let me ask a question before weget there.
Why'd you leave?
Why'd you first sales?
Why you left and didn't comeright into Peter and right away?
(04:04):
Yeah.
So, um, with this being atechnical industry, uh, I am the
furthest thing from technicallysound.
Um, and I think I was a bitintimidated.
Uh, dad was good at that stuff.
My brother's good at that stuff.
And you never gravitated,gravitated toward it as a young
person?
Absolutely not.
Yeah.
I was, by the way, I knowexactly how that feels.
Yeah.
I was, I was more of the a, Iwas more of the read a book, uh,
(04:27):
type guy, uh, as opposed to, uh,going out and building a table
or something like that.
So, uh, that, uh, yeah, man, Irelate.
Uh, so that, uh, that got memoving kind of wanting to
establish my own thing.
I think that's been a, um, sothe, the technical work of
Peterman really had no appeal.
Absolutely not.
(04:47):
I mean the respected, I know youdid, but as far as getting in
there and certain fittings andall that, Jesus didn't do any of
that stuff.
Right.
So, so what'd you do inCharlotte?
So I worked for a, a company,uh, that gave me a start.
I actually connected with my,with my first boss, the, uh, the
other day I'm on LinkedIn, but,um, and said hi to her.
But, uh, it was a company basedout of Pennsylvania.
(05:08):
Uh, they manufactured adhesive.
Um, and I worked primarily, theyhad a bunch of different
divisions.
I worked primarily in the paperand packaging industry, so I was
going into big paper mills, um,and big packaging places and
really working to make sure thattheir needs were met when it
came to big splicing tapes anddifferent things like that.
This guy, account rep.
yeah.
More so account rep than salesguy.
(05:30):
Yeah, I would say I got it.
Yeah.
All right.
Very good.
So he did that for a couple ofyears and, and uh, kind of went
out on your own and left thefamily, left the nest so to
speak.
Absolutely.
And then, but you came back.
Yup.
W what, what happened?
Yeah, so I think, uh, I think Igot the, uh, somewhat of the
itch to come back because I'dalways kind of identified going
(05:52):
and getting more schooling.
Uh, as I said, you know, kind ofthe, uh, read a book, uh, that
was always appealing.
Um, and so that was kind ofinteresting.
And then I started as I kind ofgot that itch and kind of
understood more about the realworld, if you will, and business
and stuff.
Then I started to take more ofan interest in, well, what is
dad doing?
Um, and when I tell you I had nolike knowledge of the industry.
(06:14):
Like I couldn't tell you thedifference between air
conditioner and a heat pump.
Even growing up in it, my dadhad done this, that you started
the company three months beforeI was born.
So literally my entire life.
Um, and not knowing any of that.
Um, I'd started to really takean interest in it.
Like, what's he doing?
Why are we doing this?
And I can tell you that thefirst part, uh, probably the
(06:36):
summer, uh, I left in August ofOh nine and came back in August
of 2011.
I would say that summer of 2011was really when I kind of, uh,
you know, got online and said,Hey, where's dad's, where's
dad's company?
You know, can we find this?
Um, and started to look, okay,search engine.
Yeah, it'd be nice to be seenhere.
I don't see him.
(06:57):
Well, what, how do you, how doyou raise the ranking?
How do you bring, so I startedreading a book on ad words and
how to boost the website up andall of this stuff, and really
just started to kind ofpiecemeal it.
Um, when I first came back, Ikind of rebuilt the website.
Uh, what'd you come back to do?
Well, that was the big questionaround the office was, you know,
(07:18):
with an office of 20 some oddpeople, it's like, Oh, the owner
son's coming back was what's hegoing to do?
Kill the fat and calf.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So I'm not a, you know, it waskind of like, well what's he
gonna do?
And my dad's kind of answer was,well, I mean, there's plenty to
do around here.
He'll just find, you know, findsomething to do and kind of get
into it and see if, you know,see if that works.
(07:41):
Um, so when I first came back, Iwas kind of in the marketing
side.
Um, we had a guy who did some ofthat said, just figure it out,
son.
Yeah.
You know, here's an opportunity.
His business, I love you, trustyou, you know, I know you're a
talented young man.
Yeah.
Find, find your place in here.
He didn't say fixing ourwebsite.
No, no.
So I started out doing that.
I just said, Hey, I think wecan, I think this will help us.
(08:02):
He said, okay, sounds good.
So I kinda did that.
And then, um, I would go out oncalls with him and kind of see
what he was doing and I'd go outwith this sales guy and see what
he was doing.
Um, I eventually kind ofgravitated from just the
marketing too.
We had one sales guy at thetime, residential replacement
was not huge, so he was kind ofplaying comfort advisor slash
(08:23):
service manager slash operationsmanager.
And we really weren't big enoughto be kind of departmentalized
to have your total replacementrevenues, about 2 million bucks
at this time, probably betweenservice.
And we were just doing heatingat the same time.
Um, so yeah, we were, we were,uh, we were putting in some
systems and, and we would takecare of customers, but it wasn't
(08:43):
anything like that.
So, um, so yeah.
So then I started to gravitatetowards sales, did a little bit
of sales.
Um, about a year and a half inour sales guy quit, uh, the
weekend before Memorial day, I'min Indiana.
That's the start.
500.
Yeah, 500.
That's the start of, uh, the airconditioning season, the busy
(09:04):
season.
So he quits the Friday beforethat, uh, we're standing in the
hallway and, uh, well we onlyhave one sales guy now and he
doesn't know a whole ton.
So I became the sales guy as heused to do referencing herself
right now.
Yeah, exactly.
So I became the sales guy, um,very early on, uh, and just as
luck would have it, I think thatwas one of the hottest summers
(09:26):
on record in Indiana.
Uh, I still remember coming intomy desk and having like, just 10
to 15 quotes just all over mydesk.
Like I'm not even really surewhat we're doing here.
Um, but, uh, just trying to makeit and make it work and, uh, and
figure things out along the way.
So it's kind of funny to thinkback on, on that time like, Oh,
(09:46):
we didn't, we didn't, uh, we'vesure have learned a lot, that's
for sure.
That's cool.
Youthful energy is a good thing.
Yeah.
Just, yeah.
Well, we may screw this up, butit'll be all right.
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
So, so, so you started to get involved in the
business.
It started marketing, it kindagot sales.
Um, did am I hearing you likethat you, you like the customer
part of this business too?
Is that what I'm, or just thecause that's a service
replacement
Speaker 1 (10:10):
side, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so we started to, uh,started to take a little bit
more of a focus there, uh, as,as I got more in depth in the
business and kind of learn newas long warm weather, family
video.
Brother Tyler is absolutely mybrother's three years younger
than I.
He came, uh, I believe it was2013 graduated from university
(10:31):
of Indianapolis and he cameright in the business.
I think he graduated in Decemberand he started right away right
away.
January.
You were there a couple of yearsand he sh they need any roles in
, um, and uh, I would say, uh,you asked me about kind of what
I did at first.
Um, he, uh, we kind of threw himin.
We were doing a, a, at that timewe were doing a lot of new
construction.
We were doing a 400 unitapartment complex in downtown
(10:54):
Indianapolis and dad sent himout there to run that.
Uh, so kind of threw himprobably more into the fire than
I.
um, but I'm a little easy tobuild a website then.
Yeah.
Then run a project.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
He probably maybe doesn't haveall that much potential.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah.
Let's leave it where it is.
Alright.
So, so, so this is, so I'm justkind of getting a feel for
things, you know,$2 millionbusiness in 11 year, 21 today.
Um, a lot happened between nowand then.
And also when you came in thebusiness, your father and mother
were a hundred percent owners ofthe business.
Absolutely.
With the owner operators andsince 11 when you came in and
(11:34):
your brother in 13, that'stransition to transitioned
relatively recently.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's just, let's just talkabout kind of your maturation,
um, the things that, that, thatfrom when you started after that
hot summer, you know, where werethe inflection points in this
business where you reallystarted to some accelerated
growth
Speaker 1 (11:54):
in professionalism?
Where did that happen?
Yeah.
So I would say I'm kind ofworking backwards from when we
joined Nexstar.
Obviously that's been kind ofour launching pad.
But before that, that was 2015,uh, when we were in 15, we did a
15 was a big year, newconstruction.
I think we hit 10 million in 15.
(12:15):
Uh, and then we fell back as wekind of pulled new construction
off back to about seven and ahalf million in 16.
Um, but a couple of years beforethat.
Um, and uh, I have to reallythink some of really our next,
our members now because, um, afew years before that they
started to plant those seeds of,Hey, you ought to check this
out.
And I think they, um, so they,uh, the first one was, uh, Joe
(12:40):
Huck, uh, with, uh, withWilliams.
Um, I had a, I had talked to himand he said, you know, that may
be, uh, you may want to checkthat out.
I think at the whatever year.
Uh, the super meeting was inIndianapolis was, uh, we had a,
we had chatted and he said, youmay want to check that out, or
they're in town.
And as with any new idea, whenyou're in the midst of
(13:00):
everything, it's like in one earout the other, like, okay.
And then, uh, we had a suppliertake us over to, uh, Cincinnati.
Um, and, uh, this was probablyin April of 15.
Took us over to Apollo home.
Uh, Jamie Gertz and over therewas, was kind enough to show us
around and I can honestly say Ileft there and my mind, uh, I
(13:23):
was excited.
Um, and also anxious.
I said, I want, uh, I wantsomething that looks like that.
Um, and as we traveled back toCincinnati, uh, or from
Cincinnati, uh, with dad, Icould see his apprehension to
like, well, that looks like, uh,you know, that's, that's a lot
of people.
That's a lot of of stuff.
And, uh, it was the next day,uh, he, myself and my brother
(13:48):
sat in his office and we kind ofhad the talk of, you know,
Nexstars and investment.
Um, right after that, next day,next door is a big investment.
Um, it's going to take a lot of,you know, us doing a lot of work
that changing things, makingthings better.
But if we want to grow aresidential business, I think
it's the thing that we need todo.
(14:09):
And I'm so grateful that, youknow, that conversation could
have went a bunch of differentways.
Hey, we're not invest in thatmoney.
This is the way of the company.
Um, and he was gracious enoughto say, if you guys want to take
it that direction, I'll be hereto support you.
Um, and I still think back onthat, um, a lot, uh, because
that meant the world to me,knowing that he put the
(14:31):
confidence in us to take this,uh, to new Heights.
So it's been a fun ride.
It's been fun to see him, uh,you know, knowing that he
started the company in the backof his garage.
Um, and now, you know, uh, weserve 122 employees is pretty
cool.
It is from one gratitude for,yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
A lot of pride.
No doubt.
No doubt in that.
So, so that was in 2015?
Yeah.
So, okay.
Um, so tell us, you know, um,yeah, as you've, you know, a
business isn't growing unlessleader grows.
Absolutely.
Right.
So, and I know your father was agood leader and I, but I got the
sense that in fact I just did apodcast and I'm not sure if
it'll come up before or afterthis one, but in the, the, the
(15:15):
young man on the podcast saidthere was a time where he felt
he was in growth mode and hisfather rightfully so, was kind
of more toward the end of hiscareer.
And as it relates to his, hisbusiness, he was more in protect
mode.
I mean, he didn't want to losewhat he had.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
And there's a, and there's amindset that comes in when
(15:36):
you're trying to protect whatyou have, which is, you know,
kind of being cautious, beingconservative, not, not stepping
out, not making big investments,you know, all this stuff.
Because, you know, when you'remid sixties, you don't have a
lot of time to make up for a bigloss versus when you're a little
thirties, you know, 30 year oldguys and lucky, you know, I got
a lot of runway here.
(15:57):
Yeah.
I'm excited.
Yeah.
Is that kind of how it would,how it felt at that point in
2015 in your business?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, so, um, as we started in the next star dad's
advice, um, it's, it's, uh, kindof subsided a little bit, um, as
we, as we continue to grow, buthis advice was never grow too
fast, don't grow too fast.
Um, you know, that's where youget in trouble.
And, and he, you know, that washis motto for, you know, so
(16:23):
naturally you went from two to$21 million.
Exactly.
So we followed his advice, uh,now, um, and so that was always
his advice.
And I think the thing that weunlocked in our business, um,
you know, you mentioned there,uh, you know, the leader's got
to grow.
Um, and I think I realized thatvery early on as we take on this
next door.
Um, challenge, um, I'm going tohave to become a better leader.
(16:43):
And I think if I'm honest withmyself in 15 and, and probably
some of the people that werewith us then, you know, I don't
know that I was the leader ofthe company.
I think I was just the son ofthe owner.
And yeah, you've got a lot ofresponsibility because of your
last name and that's perfectlyfine.
And I think I took the challengeupon myself that, you know,
whether it's reading, whetherit's working on different
(17:04):
things, whether it's getting toa conference, a seminar, or just
really taking personal inventoryof my leadership abilities.
Um, and when I started to dothat, I think the one thing that
I, that I learned or came tolearn was that I need to spread
that knowledge.
I need to begin to grow ourpeople.
Um, because if this company'sgoing to grow, we're going to
(17:26):
need people that can not lead aservice department of five.
They need to be able to lead oneof 30.
And as we grew people, um,
Speaker 2 (17:36):
we,
Speaker 1 (17:37):
I figured out that dad's advice of don't grow too
fast.
Was ultimately the speed that atwith which your company grows is
in the hands of your people, God.
And when you grow faster thanyour people grow, is that what
I'm hearing?
Well, I think what, what happensis when you grow them, they grow
(17:59):
your company.
Got it.
And you know, dad and my brotherand I were having a, uh, um, uh,
sit down after work one day andwe were just talking and you
know, this was about maybe abouta year ago or so.
Um, and um, you know, he saidthe same thing and I had been
putting these pieces togetherand he said, you know, we just,
(18:20):
we just don't want to grow toofast.
We just want to, you know, becareful.
And this was after years of, Ithink we grew 30% than 50%.
Um, and then we're on pace againfor, uh, over 30% growth.
But, um, he said, he said thatin my response was just kind of
a, uh, immediate reaction.
I just said, dad, I can't stopit.
I cannot stop the growth.
(18:42):
And since you told him, yeah.
And it just kinda came out of meand then I started to kind of
put it and he just kind oflooked at me kind of weird.
Like what the heck?
Tint of anger or was it just aor is it, no, just more
aggressive when you send it,right.
Yeah.
More, more so frustration.
Like I can't stop it.
And as I went on to explainmyself, the can't stop piece of
(19:04):
it was if we continue to pourinto our people and grow them, I
can't put a stop to thetechnician that wants to do 30%
better than he did last year.
Yeah.
I can't put a stop to the, youknow, to the customer service
rep that wants to book morecalls and wants to take care of
more customers and theinstallers who want to perfect
(19:26):
their install.
I can't stop that.
And so long as they want to keepgrowing that they're going to
grow our company, it's our jobto support them however it is
that they need support it.
Right, right.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And that's it.
I like what you're saying.
I'm almost like you'reapologizing and something I just
can't help it.
(19:47):
Yeah.
Right.
This is a result of what we'redoing here.
Yeah, exactly.
Not coercion on my part and I'mnot cracking the whip and you
know, you know, we, and we hearda nice message and I think
that's a really, reallyimportant lesson that you just
reinforced there.
You know, we just had JimCollins in[inaudible] and uh,
he, you know, he talked aboutthese attributes to these
(20:07):
internally great companies andone of the attributes was this
20 mile March idea.
This idea that, that eventhrough bad times you endeavor
to grow.
You do grow.
Yeah.
And there's times during goodtimes, what do you do?
You do throttle it back a littlebit, but I liked the, the, the
qualifier you put on there isthat when the gross emanating
from the desires of of talentedpeople to do builders, a
(20:29):
technician to understand that,Hey boss, I got capacity to
manage.
I know there's four, three orfour people, you know, take on
new responsibilities.
Um, it's kind of a naturaloffshoot of that.
And it's not dangerous then.
No, right.
I mean, it's not dangerous froma operational side.
You still had a funded,absolutely.
No, there's a, that's
Speaker 2 (20:47):
a whole different deal, right?
You gotta be profitable and yougotta have cash and you know,
but, but as far as, you know,the wheels coming off the
business as far as, you know, itbeing unwieldy and, and out of
control and people feeling thatdo not support it because you've
got too many people in themanagers are spread too thin and
you know, then you don't havethose problems of growth, if
that makes any sense.
(21:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's cool.
Yeah, that's really, that's aninteresting story.
So when you say grow people,that's, you know, that's a broad
term.
Absolutely.
You know, it's a, it's a, and,and I would say that if I asked
virtually any owner, are yougrowing your people, every owner
could somehow think back andsay, yeah, I am.
(21:28):
But it's not that, but they'renot.
So what are some of the specificthings you did that, that would
help us understand how to definethat in your, in your ideas?
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Absolutely.
So, um, I, I think it is athing.
We are not perfect.
Um, and we have areas wherewe're working on an issue right
now where we did not have enoughsupport for our technicians.
And so really building out thatinfrastructure, I think that's
the one thing, um, as peoplegrow, um, having that, where do
you want to go?
(21:57):
Um, and then you may have tobuild those layers of support
before you need them so that youdon't run into something where
you're not supporting people.
Um, a couple of the things thatwe do that I, I'm really excited
about and, uh, we've actually,we just hit a year of it.
Um, I teach a bimonthly, um, uh,once at the beginning of the
(22:18):
month, once at the end, aleadership class.
So, um, in the morning for aboutan hour, uh, we've kind of
paired it down to about an hour.
Um, I teach everything that Ilearn.
Uh, I've read a ton of books andlistened to a bunch of podcasts
and all kinds of stuff.
Um, and I take that knowledgeand I give it to our managers,
(22:38):
give it to our people field andwhoever wants to attend.
So that 10 enrollment, yeah.
You just come, uh, open micnight.
Absolutely.
Seven in the morning.
Absolutely.
Um, and uh, so we do that andthen we take that information
because two thirds of our peopleare out on the road.
We turn that into and we putthat information out on our
podcast so that they can listento it while they're in the truck
(22:59):
and drive into a customer'shome.
And, and what, what have you.
Um, and I think that that isjust one example.
Um, I think the one on onemeetings are a huge deal.
Um, with the ones we, weprovide.
So you do a one was standingweekly, one on one.
Every employee gets that.
Uh, not weekly.
(23:20):
That's the one we're working on.
Um, so actually we have one onones.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, no, you're good.
Sorry.
Um, the, um, the one on ones area critical piece.
I'm a firm believer that if wewant to grow people, you grow
them in a one on one setting.
We don't grow them in a service,meaning we don't grow them in an
all company meeting.
We grow them one-to-one.
Um, and, and that's where we'regoing to uncover what people are
(23:41):
struggling with and then helpthem with what they need.
Um, the, uh, for 20, 20, our bigmanagement goal is we're
committing to a number ofone-on-one goals.
So that will be our 20 mileMarch.
So somebody will say, if I'm anemployee and it's a 52 week
(24:03):
year, every employee is going togive 35 weekly one on ones is LJ
, that what I'm hearing?
Uh, I don't know about 35.
Uh, that made a number of, yeah,yeah.
Yeah.
So very similar.
So we're going to set a biggoal.
Um, we're still working throughthe numbers.
Um, but what is that goal asmanagement that we're going to
agree to?
We're going to have this mini.
Um, and really I think thebiggest thing of that is keeping
(24:24):
it top of mind.
Um, I, I was reading the otherday, I believe it was Simon
Sinek that said, you know, as amanager, you're not going to
grow the company.
You're going to grow the peoplewho then go out and do the work
that grow the company.
And to me that one on one isthat conduit between a manager
and a frontline employee, thatthat's where we're going to grow
(24:45):
that employee to go continue togrow out there.
So I can't agree with you more.
Yeah, I just can't, but youknow, here's the, here's the,
the, the secret sauce to that.
A part of it is, is that you asa manager have to have something
off or two absolutely.
In that one on one.
So the fact that you'relistening to a podcast and
consuming leadership materialand reflecting on your journey
(25:06):
and, and, and you know, you're abetter person, a deeper thinker,
a more thoughtful person todaythan you were two months ago.
Now those one-on-ones become nota routine.
It's not a, it's not what Ialways said with these
one-on-ones that we provide.
It's not a management activity.
It's a leadership developmenteffort.
(25:26):
Absolutely.
Go into it.
That mindset, not how do Imanage your activity versus how
do I grow your thinking?
That's then it's a wholedifferent meeting.
Yep.
Right.
It's a whole different thing.
Absolutely.
I'm a, I'm a firm believer in,just to piggyback off what you
said, I I a common message that,uh, a lot of my managers here,
they don't, I don't know thatthey necessarily like to hear
it, but a, a common message isif you do more leading, I'm
(25:51):
going to guarantee you can doless managing.
Um, and uh, yeah.
Uh, you know, if we lead ourpeople, they, they will follow
the processes they will followbecause they're not at that
point in time.
If they view you as a leaderthat I can follow into anywhere
and I'm going to be safe.
They start to follow you and notfollow the process.
(26:15):
Yeah.
No one wants to follow aprocess.
I was just talking to a managerthis morning about that.
I said, you're doing a great jobof leading because they don't
want to follow the process.
We need them to follow you.
And that one-on-one to me iswhere like you said, we're
connecting, we're growing.
People were, and they'reunderstanding that we care about
them.
It's a safe place.
It's all right to make amistake.
(26:36):
We understand you're growing.
What help can I give you?
What support can I give you?
And then all of a sudden, thoselittle that he's not clocking
in, right?
He's not doing his options ride.
He's not, you know, he's notfollowing the greet step.
He's not doing all these things.
All of those things start totake care of themselves because
he wants to make you proud.
(26:56):
He wants to make sure he knowsthat you have a vested interest
in him and he wants to make surethat it's reciprocated.
Um, and so we've seen a lot ofthat.
It's just a tough transitionbecause you as a manager have to
put yourself out there a littlebit.
You've gotta be willing to takea risk that this 15 minute
conversation, while it may notmake an impact today, we're
(27:17):
playing the long game.
Leadership is a long game.
Um, and growing a company is along game, right?
If you're looking to get richtomorrow, you're going to
struggle and you're not going toimpact a whole lot of people.
That's really cool.
That's really cool.
They say that the most importantthings, you know, so many things
in business.
Um, we want the immediate, uh,hit absolutely want the buzz.
(27:39):
We want the, the rush, you know,that we do something.
And while there's a differencetomorrow and, and th and often
in times in our business we cando things like that.
Yeah.
All of a sudden you start cameraguy and every, every main line,
Oh my gosh, what happened?
You know, it's like immediate,right?
But you know, developing peopleis, it's one of those things
that, that it's, it all of asudden it come, it compounds.
(28:01):
Yeah.
Like, you know, you look backall of a sudden it's like, wait
a minute, look where we are.
And it feels like it's acompounded effect.
Delayed six months.
Yup.
If that makes any sense.
Absolutely.
You got to have the, you got tohave the fortitude to continue
it, right?
Yeah.
Could we have to have goodpeople to, to start?
I mean, there's a lot of thingsyou've got to have, but you know
(28:22):
, clearly, you know, I just wantto emphasize against yet that,
you know, your one-on-ones willbe awesome, are awesome because
of the work you're doing outsideof the one-on-ones to grow
yourself.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that that's kind ofthe challenge that we give to,
to all our managers is, uh,another thing I say to them that
they probably have a whole listof these things that I say to
(28:43):
them.
They're like, okay, here he goesagain.
Um, but it's, you know, yougotta lead yourself before you
can lead others.
And part of leadership and, um,your own personal development.
That's leadership.
Eat yourself.
Absolutely.
Give me a, and um, right now I,um, if you're a minister, I'm
signing up on your church.
Just don't do it right now.
(29:04):
I'm a parishioner of the ChadPeterman school leadership.
What does that mean to you?
Uh, so leadership of yourself is, um, I, I read this somewhere
is, uh, you know, be the person,uh, start being the person today
that you want to be tomorrow.
Um, and so there's a, um, youknow, I talk a lot about in our
leadership class, whether it's,it's journaling in the morning,
(29:26):
whether it's, you know, gettingyour, getting your mindset right
, uh, having a routine, all ofthese things start to add up.
But you know, just because youjournal doesn't make you a
better leader.
Um, it's a compounding effect ofwhen you start to instill these
habits within yourself, youbecome a leader because people
start watching people startunderstanding that, Hey, that
(29:48):
guy's really, you know, he's,he's, he's investing in himself.
He's, he's moving along thatpath.
And that's what I tried to telltoo.
You know, some of our frontlineguys who, you know, may not
consider themselves a leader.
You are a leader every day byyour actions and how you help
others.
And if you keep that front andcenter, you're always a leader
(30:09):
because people are alwayswatching.
Um, and so leadership personallyto me is the foundation of any
leadership.
You're going to do a, you know,you don't see many great leaders
waking up at 10:00 AM they'regetting up early or getting the
day started there.
You know, they have that, theremay be some, but you know, who
(30:29):
knows.
Uh, but, uh,
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh, jimmied though.
Yeah, but you're leading here.
Here's the thing.
In the service business, andI'll talk about our business and
you know, maybe there's somemodels in other industries that,
but you know, to have a greatservice business, there's gotta
be a consistency and executionabsolutely right across the
board that, that, that whathappens at eight in the morning
(30:53):
happens at eight in the morningevery day in a good way, right?
It's, it's not erratic.
And so therefore, if we expectthat out of the behavior of our
employees, our behavior can't beerratic, even though we're not
doing the things that arerequired to be consistent.
Does that make sense?
Yep.
So I think that that controllingself, that modeling, you know,
the expectation, um, throughyour own behavior and
(31:15):
controlling yourself, um, sets atone in the business.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah.
Right.
I think it has to, and minestems from, um, I, I you think
back on your past and like,okay, how did I get here?
How did I, why did I, why do Ithink the way I do?
And I think that comes from asense of, you know, when you're
a second generation and you comein, especially as I came into a
group of 20, you got, you know,outside of my dad, there's 18
(31:39):
other people looking at yougoing, what are you going to do?
And so I think I learned veryearly on that my best path in
was to lead myself and show themthat I was, uh, earn their
respect.
And it was always defer to them.
You're the expert.
Just tell me how I can help you.
Yeah.
Um, and I, at the time I didn'trealize that I was doing it.
(32:02):
Um, looking back I realized thatI was indirectly doing that and
it's, it's all of a sudden kindof built on that.
Um, but you know, leadershipwhen it boils down is, is
service to others.
Um, and sometimes the, you know,the greatness, uh, service to
others you can do is be a goodexample of leadership.
Um, and sometimes we forget thatit's all, you know, try to make
(32:26):
them do what we need them to doand we forget about, well, maybe
being an example would be a goodstart.
That's so cool.
Oh man, I have really enjoyedthis.
Absolutely.
You got
Speaker 2 (32:40):
it going on there, man.
Yeah.
I appreciate it.
Thoughtful young guy that, uh, Ican tell you're a consumer of a
lot of leadership informationbecause there's a lot of things
I've heard here that, thatbetter leaders and myself have
uttered.
And so you can get yours wideopen.
Yeah, for sure.
Absolutely.
Well, well done.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with us.
Man.
I, your journey is fascinatingand we'll do this again.
(33:02):
Is that okay?
Absolutely.
Happy to share.
We had a business planningworkshop coming up that we need
to get you in there and uh, butI wanted just to sh people to
hear a little bit from you.
Absolutely appreciate it.
I loved it and I loved the, uh,the leadership examples and I'm
going to kind of summarize a fewthings that I took out of this
that I thought was great.
You know, obviously to grow abusiness you got to grow your
people, right?
(33:22):
Yeah.
And that was the, what you'vecommitted to do is, is really
investing in them.
You do what twice a monthleadership class that's open to
anybody.
Yup.
You're, you're modelingleadership development through
your one-on-ones of your, ofyour good folks, right?
Yeah.
And then you're, you're leadingyourself right through
(33:43):
discipline, through process,through, um, modeling the
consistency that you want inyour folks through your own
behavior.
Absolutely.
Well done man.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
This is a lot of lessons hereand I sure appreciate it and
thank you all for listening tothis very interesting episode.
Leadership lounges.
Jack tested with Chad Peterman,and we'll catch you next.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Thanks so much.
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