Leadership Lounge with guest John McQuillan

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, this is Jack tester and welcome to another
edition of leadership loungesitting across the desk.
Crummy is a person that's veryfamiliar with in next door.
Mr John McQuillan.
How are you doing, John?
Joe?
Well, what's up Jack?
How's it going?
I'm glad you're here.
I'm glad to be here.
That's cool.
Definitely.
Well, you're local and you justrolled in for this.
I didn't have to catch you on atrip thing coming by.

(00:31):
Oh my gosh.
Anytime brother.
I'm all in.
I know you are.
Let me tell you, this guy's abundle of energy.
He is fired up for this and he'sgot an interesting story.
I don't want to, I don't want togive it away, but uh, he's got a
lot.
So first tell us the name ofyour business that you're one of
the owners of today.
So it's McQuillan brothersplumbing, heating and cooling.
We're in st Paul at WeillMaplewood, so about 15 minutes

(00:52):
North of Nexstar headquarters.
You have got a distinction.
McQuillan is the oldest plumbingand heating company in
Minnesota.
Is that accurate?
Yes.
So my great, great grandfatherstarted it in 1883.
That's incredible.
No pressure, no pressure.
Don't say they usually say thethird generation screws it up.
I don't know what the fifththough.

(01:12):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Well actually there's a storywithin McQuillan.
I don't know if a cover allthat, but uh, so
congratulations.
You're running a storiedbusiness, you know, um, you know
a lot of these old buildings inst Paul, which is an old town,
you're some family memberprobably put the steam heating
system in those things.
It's actually crazy.
We did the, uh, the entire cityof Duluth.

(01:34):
We laid out all the, all thesteam work.
I mean, so we have a lot of richheritage here.
It's funny, our shop, originallyit was downtown off Jackson and
then they moved to the country,which was up by the cathedral,
which is right in the middle ofthe city now.
Right.
Well let me tell you just realquick, do you ever walk into a,
an old building and see thehandiwork?

(01:55):
Either see up, I don't know whatsome, some indication that one
of your forgone, we have a lotof, um, if you go like even in
James J.
Hill also a lot of the olderhomes, uh, they've got a, they
used to put these little brasstags on all the valves so you'll
see old McQuillan brothers tagsfrom, you know, 19 hundreds.
So that's gotta be amazing.
Like you're seeing like ahistory of your family.

(02:17):
Yeah.
I actually, my cousin justdropped off a picture that he
found in my great, greatgrandfather and it's our first
service van and it's him onLaurel and nine are right up the
road in a horse drawn carriagewith a roll of led pipe in the
back.
Really?
Like just, it's incredible.
Wow.
That is cool.
Yeah.
I mean your, the, the, thehistory of your family in this

(02:38):
business and um, and but, butthe reality is, um, you getting
into a position of ownership ofMcQuillan wasn't a straight
line.
Right?
You didn't go from high schoolto, to an apprenticeship
program.
Then I went to business schoolright on the business.
Summa cum laude.
eBay and it was just easy ever

Speaker 2 (03:00):
didn't happen, right?
No.
So let's this, cause I thinkthis is part of the fun journey
here and we're gonna we're goingto go back there, but first just
so people get a sense of, uh,kind of where we are today.
Just describe McQuillan as itsits today.
So McQuillan brothers right now,um, we finished a year just shy
of$10 million in revenue.
Um, we do plumbing, heating andair conditioning.

(03:21):
Uh, we do drains but don't dosewers.
Uh, we did sewers a couple ofyears ago, but got out of it.
We just got to get our bearings.
So, uh, total people on payrollis 38.
Um, yeah, it's cool.
It's a wonderful place you'redoing.
I know you, you had somestruggles recently, but you've,
you're, you're doing well rightnow and definitely as part of

(03:42):
this story.
But I want to go back because,uh, you told me some things as
you sat at my desk before Iturned the mic on about where
you were and what you weredoing.
And it's like, okay, that'sdefinitely not a straight line.
So when did you get into thetrade?
Let's go back into the trade.
Um, you know, I went on my firstservice call with my dad when I
was, yeah, I mean, I was 10, 11years old and I'm down in these

(04:04):
buildings downtown st Paul.
Um, we used to do a lot ofcommercial work.
Um, I remember like he'd get mea pipe wrench cause we'd go into
these old abandoned buildingsand he was like, if someone
jumps out, I'm like, Oh my gosh.
Like, what are we doing?
Right, right.
Um, but then, uh, you know, mydad never pushed me into the
industry ever.
Uh, really.
I was, I kinda did my own thingfor awhile.

(04:26):
But, uh, high school, I'd be asummer helper.
I'd help out, you know, cleaningfittings, uh, just keeping the
shop clean, running servicecalls.
Um, then I went to college for alittle bit.
Uh, it didn't last, well, notlike academic learner at all.
Like, I mean, I think I stillhold the record at st Thomas.
I got like a 0.7 GPA.

(04:48):
Like it was horrible.
Um, but when I went to tradeschool, um, I graduated top of
my class.
I'm a very kinesthetic learner,so yeah, like a lot.
I can tear apart a boiler, likeshow me how to do it and I got
it.
Give me a book to read.
Oh my gosh.
Like yeah, like I'm going tofind someone to teach me out of

(05:08):
high school.
Like, like a lot of people youput into your, you went to
college.
Yup, exactly.
A Sterling student there.
Right.
This semester in college failedmiserably and I ended up moving.
I moved to Arizona shortly afterthat.
Did you go to trade schoolfirst?
I went to trade school inArizona, so I went to Arizona.
I started working at anotherNexstar shop.
Christian brothers.

(05:29):
Okay.
Um, so I was down there.
I worked there for a couple ofyears before they're a part of
next door, by the way.
Yeah.
Well they were w I don't evenknow, long time ago, whatever it
was.
Cause you're buying, what areyou about 40 years old clothes
and clause 37.
Wow.
Sorry about that.
Oh my gosh.
You look older.
Silver Fox jacket know what'sup, when you see where this is

(05:51):
going.
So I'm sorry to interrupt.
So go ahead.
Um, so yeah, went on to Arizona,uh, was going to be a real
estate mogul.
Um, so I told my dad, I'm done.
I'm never doing the trades.
I'm going to be a real estategazillionaire, um, now less than
about six months.
And I called my dad and came up,got some tools, um, and got a
job at a plumbing shop inArizona.

(06:13):
Yup.
Started working at Christianbrothers and just saw the
opportunity to get into heatingand air conditioning.
Um, so I put myself through aschool down in Phoenix called
refrigeration school.
Um, was down there for a coupleof years and then ended up
coming home and then got intothe local union, um, and went
through the pipe fitterapprenticeship, uh, and worked
for my dad's shop.

(06:34):
Uh, that whole time as a Germanpipe fitter.
Got through the apprenticeprogram there and then, uh, I
ended up leaving, uh, the shopagain.
I went and I worked in the, atMinneapolis, uh, they have a
steam crew that works in thevaults and does feel that steam
works.
So I worked there for a coupleof years, um, and then decided
again, we're not doing thetrades.

(06:55):
Um, so my wife and I, we hadchildren at the time.
Uh, we ended up moving back downto Arizona.
Um, and I got into farming.
Actually I, I was the, I prettymuch ran the, uh, Schnapp farm
for anyone that's familiar inthe Phoenix area.
So it's the largest organicpeach farm.
Uh, did a bunch of peachfarming.

(07:16):
Um, it was fun until peachseason ended.
And then, Oh my gosh, Jack, nowI'm like going through memories
of yeah, know, then got donefarming and uh, they had, uh,
they had a cemetery as well, soI was a grave Digger for awhile.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Okay.
And did that just, I'm a prettyemotional guy and when they,
they like they didn't watchanybody else's enrollment.
I had to be present at thefunerals.
No, you, this is terrible.
I like called my wife.
I'm like sitting on the backhole, like crying to my wife.
I'm like, I can't do this.
Like back.
You start your underground work.
Yeah.

(07:52):
Wow.
Um, but at the time I had areally good friend who owned a
bamboo nursery in NorthernCalifornia, bamboo nursery.
Yep.
So, um,

Speaker 2 (08:00):
so we ended up selling all of our belongings
and bought a 10 by 12 Kodiakcanvas tent and moved to the
mountains of California.
Um, my youngest was three and mytwin daughters were four and we
moved to the mountains and livedoff the land for just about a
year.

(08:20):
Um, pumping water out of theCreek.
Uh, we had a tankless propanewater heater hung on the side of
a tree.
I've got pictures of my kidslike taking baths and
Tupperware, but, uh, I dug anouthouse, like just a, a big
hole in the ground and made abamboo wall.
And, uh, we lived off the landforaged chickens family of five

(08:41):
70 bucks a week.
It was legit.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
No way.
So what I did know, I knewyou're away from the family
business.
Well, I didn't know you were ahippie.
It'd be in the mountains, man.
Wait, so what brought

Speaker 2 (08:56):
you back?
Um, so my wife's indoorplumbing.
Well, so I had started, I had ashop out there, it was called
mountainside plumbing.
Um, so, uh, you know, I would doabout a job a week.
I built a couple houses or didyou know, I did a fair amount of
solar work and pumps.
Um, I roughed in a couple ofhouses, but, uh, we ended up
coming back.

(09:16):
My, my wife's mom got sick andthe kids were starting school.
I mean, yeah, like it just hadto happen.
Um, and winter was coming.
I mean, Northern California isnot Minnesota, but you know, you
can only do so much in a canvastent.
Um, so ended up packing up anduh, and coming home.
And I had told my dad I wouldnever work for him again.

(09:39):
Um, why is that?
Just, I don't know.
It just, it's, it's a lot of PR.
I mean, family business, anyonethat's in a family business can
speak to it.
Like working for your father canbe hard for sure.
And my dad's a wonderful person,but it just can be hard cause
like the expectations of me werehigher than everyone else.
And where do they, Oh, and, andyou feel, uh, it was just, it

(10:02):
was a tough tell me.
It's just tough.
It's, um, you know, I used toget criticized, Oh, you worked
for your dad all.
And I, in my mind, I'd be like,you know, what could work for
your dad?
Like, it's not like I juststroll in as the boss's kid and
like do whatever I want.
Like, uh, the first boiler ever.
Did you know, my dad took meout, he disassembled the boiler

(10:23):
and then he said, well, see youlater.
And he walked, we walked intohis truck and left.
And it's like, okay, I'm puttingup, if we ever get on a
Lochinvar our better idea.
I got it.
I know exactly what to do.
Uh, just, it was just adifferent, that wouldn't have
happened to another employee.
You don't know.
Um, so, um, but my, my dad's, Iknow he's a good guy.

(10:44):
Oh my gosh.
I think this is illustrative.
I'd like to, you know, so thankyou for sharing.
Oh my gosh.
So you didn't want to do thatanymore?
No pressure was too much foryou.
Yeah, and work was intense.
You know, my, my dad had gottenembezzled from, um, early 2000
and, you know, lost everything.
I mean, it was actually, itreally sucked.

(11:04):
Um, so now the businesses in, ina firefight, Oh my gosh, it was
so intense.
Like gotta go sell stuff so thatpayroll checks don't bounce.
And just that pressure, like Ididn't own the business and it
was really hard.
You were owning a lot of thoughthat responsibility.
Yeah.
And so it was very hard and Igets, you know, I got sick too.

(11:25):
Um, I got Lyme disease about adecade ago, 11 years now, living
in a tent.
I actually had gotten Lymedisease prior to the tents.
I was, I was really sick.
Um, no, no, you're good.
Yeah, I was sick.
So, um, so struggled with thattoo.
It just wasn't, it wasn't theright recipe at the time.

(11:46):
How old were you then?
I got sick when I was 20.
How long did you, when did youleave the business home?
Oh, I guess I was,

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I had to have been 2022 when I first moved down
there.
And he came back at what age?
24 and when did you startworking for your dad again?
When you finally start workingfor your, you go back to I was
like, when I truly came back andwas fully committed was when I
came back from California aboutsix years ago.
Six years ago.
Yup.
Okay.

(12:14):
So your 31 year old man at thatpoint.
Yup.
Um, family defeat.
It was go time.
Um, so did things, so, so youcame back in and you had all
this, this memory of thechallenges, the memories of the
challenges of, of, you know, thestruggling business with a low
cash flow.
Cause your dad got embezzled andhe's, and, and before you said

(12:35):
this, your, your father didn'tgo bankrupt.
He paid back everything.
So like the ultimate man ofcharacter, like dug himself out
of a couple million dollars indebt and it took him 12, 14
years to do it.
But did it, didn't filebankruptcy and really saved our
family name, uh, in ourcommunity, cause vendors all
talk.
So super proud of my dad andblessed, blessed to work for him

(12:58):
, for them.
And it's, uh, it's funny causewhen my dad, you know, family
businesses can be tough.
So my dad lost a lot of hisfamily through the transition in
business.
And, um, I think going throughthat, it's created this, this
bond between us that's like, youknow, the last thing I want is
to see family fallout frombusiness transition.

(13:19):
So as we've gone from, you know,the fourth to the fifth
generation now it's been veryopen and transparent with my
family, my brothers and sistersand my dad is one of my closest
friends.
Sure.
Awesome.
So it's just been a blessing tobe able to go through that
together and not have falloutso.
Well, yeah.
And I'm going to share somethinghere because you know, there was

(13:41):
a time when I first, uh, when Ifirst met your father, it was
years ago when before I was withthis organization and he was one
of the principals of McQuillan.
And then they had a split and hestarted his own business and
some other family member wasrunning McQuillan and then
McQuillan went out of business.
Yeah.
Shut its doors.
The business you now run.
Yeah.
And your business was calledforemost, that one John sr was

(14:03):
running.
Yeah.
And you guys bought the nameback or got the name back
somehow and now you're, soyou're back running the business
that you didn't run, went out ofbusiness.
You re you took it back againunder the, your name with
McQuillan run by a McQuillan.
Yeah.
Which is cool.
It's been very neat.
It's, you know, it's, and it's,yeah, it's just been a fast, a

(14:23):
lot of family there.
And I knew, and I don't want togo there cause there's a whole
bunch of it.
We can do like six morepodcasts.
But what I'd be interested inthough, I think is, is there was
the experience you had as ayoung person that caused you to
go to Arizona and then causedyou to go back to California,
cause you to, to, to go work forthose city Minneapolis, but then

(14:45):
you came back, right.
And now you were in the businessand you are working somebody

Speaker 2 (14:52):
who had, you know, there was issues with, and I'm
not 100%.
Yeah.
What changed you?
Him, what?
So I, um, so my dad's changed.
I think, you know, just life,you grow up, you change.
Um, you know, what changed forme really was, uh, I've always
been like on a mission to tryand find more, be more, do more.

(15:13):
Um, and when I came back fromCalifornia, I think I'd been
back two months and my dad waslike, we gotta, you know, um, I
joined this organization, nextstar, you gotta come check it
out.
Um, and we came to a regionalevent and actually Josh Savage
from hero was hosting it.
And I just watched Josh and theother guys that were there.

(15:36):
And I was like, you know what,if these guys can do it, I can
do it.
Um, it was just, I mean, it waslike he's my age.
I just, I instantly saw likethis refined man that had like,
same thing, generationalbusiness.
He had bought it from his fatherand created something amazing.
Um, so my dad actually left togo to the restroom when they

(15:58):
asked who would host the nextone.
And I volunteered and I didn'tknow anything.
Like Jack, I was two monthsback.
Oh my gosh, you're stillsleeping in a tent, sleeping in
a tent, bro.
Yeah.
Um, but then we jumped in all inwith, uh, with Nexstar.
Um, and it wasn't all easy, likethe last, you know, even, you
know, I was joking with you lasttime I was in, um, you know, if

(16:20):
you'd asked me two years agowhat an income statement was or
a P andL like, I didn't, Ilegitimately didn't know.
I didn't, I knew nothing aboutbusiness.
I knew that I was very top linefocused.
Um, like I had this, this$10million, Oh, I gotta get to$10
million cause Josh was there andI, I just had this like idea

(16:44):
that that was where I had toget.
Um, so the idea of what does itcost to put a truck on the road?
Um, accountability.
I'm horrible at accountability,like holding people accountable.
I'm like 98% yellow on thatcolor code.
That's fun.
Oh my gosh.
But my weaknesses are followthrough.
I'm naive.

(17:05):
Like I sh I struggle beingdisciplined and consistent and
um, and I legitimately strugglewith those things.
You know, I just did the stufffor leadership, a spotlight.
I went through it again, it'slike strengths and weaknesses
and this just like, man, I gottaI gotta work on my weaknesses
cause they're, I, I feel like Idropped the ball off and, um,

(17:26):
but I came back and I justwanted to build, I just wanted
to build.
So my attitude was, the more yousell, the more you make.
While we put 10 trucks on theroad one year and I hired people
and just, they were doing a goodjob at another shop.
So I just assumed that thatwould just transfer right over

(17:46):
to McQuillan and they would bedoing a great job here.
Well, that's not the case atall.
I'm like, you have to holdpeople accountable and you have
to have standards and you haveto have like goals and
benchmarks.
And really, not until this lastyear did we even have
benchmarks.
It was just like, what are we,yeah, we just got to go sell
more.

(18:07):
Um, so it created a really toughfinancial position.
I mean, we've been, we struggledfinancially.
There was, you know, in townlocally, people were saying, Oh,
McQuillans going to go out ofbusiness.
Like, it was tough.
And I, I dug us into a lot ofdebt.
Um, just trying, just trying tobuild, yeah.
Just trying to build stuff.
And even, even lately, like, um,you know, I was, I told you

(18:29):
right before this podcast, likebefore it was like March of last
year, I was down over$800,000.
Um, and it was, it was, I waswith Melanie and Alicia and
[inaudible], Darren Gilmore, twoof our marketing yeses and one
of our members.
And we're, we're talking and I'mlike, Oh yeah, I'm going to

(18:49):
spend a bunch of money on socialmedia.
I'm going to Gary V this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And like, while you should seemy energy was like through the
roof.
And then I got a text from mycontroller saying we lost
$480,000 this month.
And it's hard to do.
Oh my gosh, Jack.
Wow.
Insane.
And so, you know, I go from likehyped up, like the nonverbals

(19:13):
had to have just been incredibleto go from like, Oh yeah, I'm
going to be Facebook maniac.
And then like you are likewalking back to his room like,
um,

Speaker 1 (19:25):
well let's talk about that because you mentioned that
a year ago at this time you hadfigured out you'd finally got us
an accurate financial picture.
And when you caught up for some,uh, bookkeeping errors from the
prior year, and then theperformance in a prior period,
you find yourself$800,000 andhundred thousand dollar loss
through March.
It was brutal.
But by, by the end of the year,you, you'd made it all back.

(19:46):
Yeah.
So you had a really goodrecovery gash.
It's been incredible.
And that was in the firstquarter.
So we, you know, we joke nowit's like, Oh my gosh, we lost
so much money in the firstquarter

Speaker 2 (19:54):
if we just break even this quarter, uh, and continue
our performance like we have.
Um, cause really after that, andI've got to give a lot of credit
, um,[inaudible]

Speaker 1 (20:04):
our director of finance, Theresa is, yeah, she's
changed our world.
Um, so do you numbers now, youknow, you've hired somebody
around you that it's good atwhat you're not particularly
good at.
Incredible.
Is that right?
And it's changed.
It's changed our world.
I mean, she's, it's gone fromlike trying to look through milk
to crystal clear water.
It's a good analogy.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
So, so now the ability to, you know, like we
can add plumbing trucks and Iknow that confidently now
because our plumbing systems areworking.
Yeah, we have a profitableplumbing team.
And so adding a truck, we canlook at what is it going to cost
and what is it going to take.
And, uh, it's, it's a differentbusiness today.
I talk different, like I, Ispeak about the business in a

(20:46):
way that I couldn't, you know,it's actually, I was at Digitos
with my dad for lunch today andwe were talking about

Speaker 1 (20:52):
by their old school, same place.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Um, but I must've been three years ago I sat down
with Josh Savage and, um, hetold me, he called me out on it.
He said, you know, John, youidentify as a pipe fitter, why
don't you just be a pipe fitter?
And at the time I did, Ilegitimately did.
I, I didn't identify as abusiness owner.
I had the stigma that like, youknow, who am I?

(21:21):
Like I'm no, and I, I still feelthe same way.
I'm, I'm no better than anyone.
I'm, you know, my skill set isnot my skill set is people like
when I think of like, what do Ido well, I do people really
well.
I connect with people.
I've done a great job assemblinga team, but I have weaknesses
too.

(21:41):
Um, and my weaknesses, I have tohire people whose strengths are
my weaknesses.
Um, but you said that he said,why don't you just be a pipe
fitter and did that cause you toset up and say what?
I, I was it like it like RA?
I was like, Oh my gosh.
Like I do like, um, that waswhen I started to shift that
that moment it was at the greenmill in other States.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, yeah, you don't want a restaurant.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Well, and uh, it was like a light bulb went out that
was like, Oh my gosh, I, I doidentify as a tradesman.
I don't look at the businesslike a business.
I look at it like, like, Oh,well, I mean, in my mind I would
say stuff like, Oh, well Mattand I, my brother Matt and I
just put a boiler in today.
It costs like two grand inmaterial and two guys, eight

(22:29):
hours.
Aw man, my dad just made a bunchof money today.
Well, what about like the sixdays that we didn't do anything
right, but we got paid like, um,I get it.
So just not even having thatlens on.
Um, it was that conversationwith Josh that really shit shook
me up and was like, wow, I gottaI have to start learning the
business side.

(22:49):
Um, and have struggled, youknow, we struggled a lot with
the financial leader.
Um, I think part of it was thatwe grew so fast.
Yeah.
Um, but the other part of itwas, you know, I didn't hire
well.
Um, and I'll be the first toadmit it.
Um, when, when we went and got,um, worked with a company to
find Theresa, it was like, Iliterally said to the owner, I

(23:09):
was like, I've had a controller,I've had a staff accountant,
I've had a bookkeeper.
Like I need a financialgangster, like someone that can
come in and like school me,

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I literally actual gangster, gangster.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Um, and, um, and we ended up getting Teresa to come
on board.
And, um, she's really, she's,you know, she's taught me so
much about business and youknow, I, you know, I, uh, super
grateful for Teresa, but theother thing that happened at the
same time was we'd went all in.
We truly went all in withNexstar from service systems to
marketing to like every, everyclass that I could attend, we

(23:50):
attended.
Everyone at our shop has beenthrough service systems, all of
our CSRs events, throughcustomer service.
Yeah.
All of our managers have beenthrough the manager classes.
I've been through almost everyclass.
Like it just the, the platformthat you guys put together for
tradesmen[inaudible] to learnthe business side is unmatched.

(24:12):
I mean, it's unmatched and it's,it's given me the tools to, to
execute a successful business.
Let's do this.
Thank you for that.
That's great to hear.
And you know, that's not thepurpose of this.
But what I'd like to do is ifyou were to go back, you know,
16 months in a day in the lifewe can, the life of John
McQuillan, we can a life todayof a successful business owner,

(24:33):
you know, coming out of the holeand making money now, you know,
you're doing well in the toughquarter here, doing really good
as you described to me.
What's the difference in, inbehavior or activity that, that
you do today that, that youweren't doing or weren't doing
well?
Um, a little over a year ago, soI, I'm consistently involved

(24:59):
with my business coach.
Okay.
So what, but what do you do withthat information then?
I put it to action like I, um, ayear and a half ago I couldn't
have told you our ticketaverage, our closing rate.
I couldn't have told you any ofthe key metrics that you have to
watch.
You could just told me theemotion of your men.
Everyone's happy, right?
And there's no jerks here andwe're all while I'm in my office

(25:21):
crying, like trying to like puta happy face on because no,
we're, we're good.
Hey, it's, it's good.
You know, what, can I saysomething?
Yeah.
You can see through aninauthentic leader like that
because the leader has to givegood news and bad news.
Right?
And you can't be just mr happyface when things suck you, you
can't know.
Right.
It's, you think it's your job tonever show your emotion or never

(25:46):
show a negative or a weakness.
That's not true, man.
No, and I think part of thestrength of our team is being
transparent with everyone.
Like, okay.
Um, I mean I told everyonestraight up, I'm like, you know
what, you guys, I've made somemistakes.
I, I grew this business too fastand it's hurt us.
It's hurt us.
And I haven't had the guidanceand done, yeah.
Done the things that I need todo to run a successful business.

(26:10):
Um, so the team we have today,uh, our guys that and gals that
have stuck with us, um, throughreally trying times, um, and
have really, alright.
Yeah.
Cool.
But I want to go back to myquestion cause I didn't get an
answer yet.
Okay.
Which is what, what's differentcause this, cause here's the
thing, you know, when a businessimproves, it only improves

(26:31):
because behaviors change.
Yup.
There's nothing else that causesit to move.
It isn't a good intention.
Business coaches going toNexstar training, none of that
stuff matters until you go homeand do something different.
So something different happenedat McQuillan and I'm trying to
figure out what the differentthing was from 16 months ago
that caused such a dramatic, youknow, I get that you were right.

(26:51):
Let me see a few things thatfirst you were thinking like a
pipe fitter.
Yup.
You didn't know your metrics.
Is that right?
Yup.
Is there anything else?
I didn't do anything with them.
Okay.
Um, so now what do you do withyour daily huddle?
All right, now we're gettingsimilar.
Um, you know, we have an El 10every week, uh, where we get
together[inaudible] what'sworking, what's not.

(27:13):
Um, I meet with our customerservice manager probably three
times a day, you know, how's theboard look?
Okay.
Focused on, we're focused on our, our call board, making sure
we've got the opportunities ouroperations managers focused on,
on the guys performing the waythey need to and holding people
accountable when, when thingsare going awry.
That wasn't happening before.

(27:34):
Oh my gosh.
Not at all.
Like now we got someplace.
That's good.
Yeah, I like it.
We're operating as a businessnow.
You know what I mean?
You were operating as abusiness, just not a good one to
say well plays, right.
Cause you had a business, youknow, and yet, you know, and I,
and I know it was probably, myguess is that you probably did a
good job by the customersanyway.
Yeah.
You know, and, and people lovelike, like people loved coming

(27:58):
to work.
It was just, there was no, therewas no accountability.
There was absolutely zeroaccountability.
And it's still a weakness.
We still have a lot of work todo.
Sure.
Like, um, we're not where wewant to be, but we're, we're
twice as good as we were andhalf as good as we want to be.
Um, Oh, so that's good.
Yeah.
I took that from Theresa.

(28:18):
So there you go.
I like it twice as good as wewere and half as good as we want
to be.
Yes.
Yup.
I like it.
Yup.
So there's a lot of work yet todo, but uh, but we're running as
a successful, profitablebusiness with tons of
opportunity ahead of us.
Good question here.
Yeah.
Now I think about this is that,you know, many of the things

(28:39):
you're doing today, Johnwouldn't have wanted to do four
years ago.
Right.
Cause you're a fun guy.
You're a people person.
You're not a numbers guy.
I guess men in many respects,you hid from that before or you
ran from it and not physical ornot.
No, I hid behind my smile.
I haven't done that forever.
It's legitimately what I do.

(29:00):
Because you didn't think it'd befun.
Yeah.
And you didn't think you'd begood at it?
Yeah.
And I thought, I thought, who amI?
How am I to tell a plumber howthey should do?
I'm not a plumber.
I mean, I'm not a, these guysare way I would have people join
our organization and I would belike, John is, you know, we had
a plumber join that.

(29:21):
His name was John.
And I thought to myself, John isso much better at his job than I
am.
Who am I to tell him how to readan invoice out?
Who am I to tell him how to,there was no system, there was
no plastic on him.
So it was just, John did greatat a different shop, so he'll do
great here.
Kevin did great at differentshop, so he'll do great here.

(29:41):
Yeah.
And I relied on, it was like, Ihad this idea that other people
would bring this information inand help us develop what needed
to be developed because I to doa hundred percent, hundred
percent.
Okay.
Um, whereas now, uh, I want tolearn as much as I can to bring
to the organization.

(30:01):
So what's changed in me is goingfrom, you know, feeling like
truly a year ago, I was sittingon the lunar floor of my house
crying to my wife about how Ihad built a failing business.
Sure.
Like all I had done great.
We did$7 million in revenue, butall I did was rack up debt and

(30:22):
give an empty promise toeveryone that works there.
They all think that we're goingto be here forever and I'm just
like breaking down.
Um, so now today I can look atthe business and say I've built
something really incredible andI've done it with the team.
Like I joke with everyone atMcQuillan brothers to say, if,

(30:44):
if everyone left, I would goback to fixing boilers.
I would go back to, you know,doing that stuff.
Cause that's what I'm reallygood at.
I've, I feel blessed to be inthe position I am, but without
the squad and the people thatcome to work every day and suit
up and show up and bring thethunder.
Um, we don't have, we don't havethat.
Right.
Um, so it's so amazing.

(31:04):
So to have a team and you gothrough the same thing here.
I mean you just have anincredible team that comes in
and, and suits up, shows up, butyou set the standard and you
have an expectation and we canhave fun and we can joke and
play, but we have to hit, wehave to do our job, we have to

(31:25):
do our job.
Um, and that's what was missing.
We can come and have fun andplay, but we have to do our job.
Part was, I was, I think I wasscared, um, to have to be the
bad guy.
I felt a lot of, I felt a lot ofloss when I went from the field
to a manager role.

(31:45):
Um, cause I went from part ofthe crew to now all of a sudden
I'm not hearing stuff.
Oh, I heard it from someone elsethat he's met.
Like I was like, why?
Nobody's telling me stuffanymore.
Um, so I felt very alone, evenwith all my friends.
Like it was just, uh,emotionally I was in a different

(32:05):
spot.
Um, whereas today I found andlearned that people want to have
goals and people want to haveexpectations and people want to
live up to them because everyonewants to contribute and know
that they're a part of somethingawesome.
And helping to build that.
Well, if nobody knows thatpeople are just going to do and

(32:26):
there's until it goes away, youknow, that's so good.
You know, cause I was gonna askyou that.
I was[inaudible] I think youkind of covered it.
Is that the very thing that youthought you didn't want, think
he ran away from theaccountability, the structure of
the, you know, the, the numbers,all the things that, you know,
you weren't good at school.

(32:46):
I mean the, the story I tell you[inaudible] it's all in your
head, you know, that, that, butnow that you actually did it,
question for you.
Yeah.
Is life more fulfilling now thanit wasn't a tent?
Oh, much so that, that's adouble edged sword.
Well because you had, I will saythat, um, it's a fun, I said

(33:07):
fulfilling.
Fulfilling.
Yes and no.
Cool.
Cause there were, there wassome, some beautiful things of,
of living in the tent and um,you know, being, you know, I've
heard people say I'm nothomeless, I'm home free.
Uh, we were free.
Um, we didn't have life was verysimple.
So it's a very, I mean it'sliterally a different world I

(33:29):
live in right now.
Um, cause it was, I would wakeup with my children every
morning and we'd go pick berriesand swim in the Creek and I'd
leave one day a week to go, youknow, put us some pump in or put
a well pump in.
Um, so as far as like engagementwith my family, I get that it

(33:50):
will, I was so much more engagedwith my family.
Um, running a business is, it isa lot of work.
I mean, so one of my strugglesnow is that I have a hard time
being genuinely present with myfamily.
I get so I get so excited aboutwork now like, um, but my, my

(34:12):
kids see it.
Like even yesterday, my middledaughter Lily, she was like, I
want everyone wants to come towork with me.
Cause I always talking aboutwork like, so my middle daughter
came to work with me.
Um, it didn't go to school andshe thought it was the greatest
thing in the world.
And she hung out on the couch inmy office and then went and hung
out with dispatch.
And, um, so, so pros and cons toboth.

(34:34):
Um, but I am as a provider formy family, as someone that is
building something that I'mcontinuing on a family legacy, I
feel very fulfilled.
Um, the opportunities that Ihave for my family now are very
different.
And I really do think that partof being so detached from my

(34:57):
family over the last few yearsis I, I got us into a lot of
debt.
I made a lot of tough decisionsthat I couldn't just step away
from.
I couldn't just at mad McQuillanyou mean the business?
Yeah, I'm McQuillan brothers.
I mean I had like my dad and Ijust became partners like my
dad.
Right?
So I couldn't, my dad gave methe opportunity to run with this

(35:21):
business and do whatever Iwanted and he never thumbed me.
Or, um, so I made thesedecisions and I made these
mistakes and I had gotten thisdebt so I had to see it through
cause I couldn't burn my father.
Um, so the pressure was justimmense that I can't stop.

(35:41):
Um, so now as things havestarted to settle and we have
structure and we haveaccountability and, and we're
moving forward, I am able to bemore present with my family.
Um, and I think that over thenext year I'm going to see a lot
more of that because we're notin turnaround.
Um, we were legitimately, thistime last year, we were turning

(36:03):
around.
It was, it was make moves or,yeah.
Or it's over.
Um, or it's back to the tent.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right.
I get it.
So that's a good answer.
Cause I, you know, in somerespects, you know, to me it
doesn't sound appealing to livein a tent.
Yeah.
But I understand the peel thatyou described there.
Yeah.
Right.
And my guess is, is that with aperson like yourself who is, uh,
you know, I sound like you're afamily guy first, um, that
you're never going to be, thatyou'll always have time for

(36:34):
family to make time.
And I know you do, but

Speaker 2 (36:37):
doubt I'm working in a turnaround situation versus
running a successful business.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Ours, so different.
So, so let me ask a question nowthat you know what it feels like
to be in a turnaround.
Oh my goodness.
You'll do everything you can.
Everything in my power to not dothat again.
Make good decisions to helpanyone that's going to go down
those best and not have to gothrough.
Cause it is, it's brutal.
So let's talk about that list.

(37:05):
Cause we're getting 36 minutesin this.
Fascinating.
But tell me what, so there'ssomebody that's young in the
business.
If you could go back, I'd likethis question.
Go back to uh, a 28 year old, 30year old John McQuillan and say
don't, Oh, what, what would yousay?

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I would say, do not worry about revenue.
Worry about, worry about goodgross margins, worry about
quality of earnings, focus onnot ego.
Ego like ego is all we have tobe the biggest.
We need more trucks.
We got a bit bigger thaneveryone else.

(37:45):
It is such a lie.
It is such a lie because you canhave an incredibly successful
small business.
You don't need to be 150 trucks.
Um, very cool.
I mean I have members in my Pbod, my, my group that have
smaller organizations that aredoing incredible profits and

(38:07):
then there are people on theother hand that have these
massive organizations thataren't making anything that's
like, okay, you did, you did$5million in revenue this month to
make$20,000 and as a business,not personally as a business.
Like, um, and then half of thatgoes to taxes.
Like, all right, how are yougoing to grow and invest in

(38:28):
training or do anything withthat kind of money?
You mean while you've got guysthat are doing$2 million a year
and their businesses areprofiting$420,000, like the
amount of work that has to bedone for either.
So I would, I would just saymore than anything focused on
quality of earnings and don'tlook at, don't get caught in

(38:50):
ego, have more trucks and moremoney and bigger, bigger, bigger
because that's not what matters.
Um, and I made that mistake init.
It almost cost me the familybusiness.
Wow.
That's great advice.
I don't know if I need to askanything else cause that was
good.
That's, that's no questionsasked.
So now when the revenue comes inand the month ends, you're going

(39:11):
to make sure that uh, it'squality of earnings.
Like what are we looking for?
And bottom number doesn't havewings around it.
And even if you go backwards inrevenue, um, like I told you
right before this last year,during the month of January, we
did like$920,000 in revenue.
This year we did 740, like, sowe made, we did less work.

(39:34):
Now granted the weather's beenmassive this time.
Last year it was freezing andit's like 40 degrees outside.
Um, but we made more money likeso.
So again, it's the quality ofearnings and that quality of
earnings comes from having goalsand sharing them with the team
and having accountability andhaving benchmarks.

(39:56):
And what do we have to do, youknow, what is, what is the
ticket to the show?
Like not, not do you want butteror do you want cheese or do you
want Skittles?
Like what is the ticket to theshow?
The ticket to the show is youhave to do this kind of revenue.
You have to make sure thatyou're representing the
McQuillan brothers family andbusiness in a good way.
We have to put our customersfirst.

(40:17):
We say sell, not or serve, notsell.
Um, so the more you go in toserve a homeowner, the higher
your average ticket is when yougo in to just sell, sell, sell,
you burn customers.
So, um, so it's clearly definedlike what are, what is the
ticket to show?
And once you get your ticket tothe show, then we can talk
about, Hey, do you want you onTwizzlers?

(40:39):
Are you on Skittles?
Um, but what gets us in thedoor?
So having that defined creates abetter working environment.
You get, you get higher caliberpeople that want to be a part of
the organization because peoplewant to do a good job.
Good people do.
Oh my gosh, people want to, theywant to know what the goal is

(40:59):
and they want to crush it.
Um, and that is, that's what'schanged.
The organization is reallybringing that type of, that type
of structure in that type ofdrive into the business.
And it starts with me like, um,it really does.
Uh, they say it starts at thetop.
I used to be like, no, no, themasses.
It's the masses.

(41:21):
Um, it does start at the top.
If I show up late every day anddon't care, uh, what does that
say to everyone else?
If I don't follow through?
And this is, this is my biggestweakness, Jack, legitimately,
um, uh, follow throughaccountability.
Uh, you know, not beingforgetful.

(41:42):
Like those are the things that Istruggle with.
I, yeah, I just, yesterday I, Ilet my customer service manager
down, I told her I was gonna dosomething and I didn't write it
down and I didn't do it.
And she got a call from afrustrated customer.
So this morning I had to eat asandwich and say, Hey, you know,
I'm sorry, like I made amistake.

(42:02):
I didn't follow through.
Um, I took care of Sharon, Italked to her, but I apologize
that you had to take that call.
So I owned it, I ate it, I sawit through.
Um, but getting that warmfeeling in my body that I let
someone down is the stuff thatpushes me to, to do a better job

(42:23):
and be a better person.
Um, cause at the end of the day,we're just, we're just people
helping people.
Like all of us, whether you're ateammate, a customer, like I, I
worked for everyone at McQuillanbrothers and I just don't want
to fail anyone.
I want to do a good job becauseAndy, our operations manager,
Joe, depends on us and Brooke,our customer service and Theresa

(42:43):
and my brother and my dad andall the people in the field that
, um, we work for them.
Um, so how do we, how do we makesure that we do everything we
can to bring that every day?
Um,

Speaker 1 (42:58):
it's interesting if I can jump in here is you know,
you are a people guy first, youknow, side that's very evident.
You know, you're, you enjoypeople, you enjoy fun.
And so what's important for youis the structure and the
processes and consistency.
And these are the things youstruggle with, but you had to
put people around you to dothat.

(43:20):
Now the converse is this, if youare great at process and
structure and numbers and maybea little harder, they'll
tougher.
You might have to have somebodylike you around you.
Right?
Isn't that so funny?
Cause.
So, so this is not like, so ifyou're a numbers guy or woman
and really a little more stern,you're saying, ha ha, I'm going
to be more like, but John neededto do, don't, don't do that more

(43:43):
of this.
Like you are sometimes I thinkwhen you're in, when you're
struggling and you don't knowwhat to do, you do more of the
very thing that's causing thestruggle.
Right.
100%.
So you say this place is introuble.
I better be more fun.
I better be more, I better gohug some more people.
He was like, no, don't hug anymore people.
John.
I don't know.

(44:03):
They don't need a double hug man.
It's

Speaker 2 (44:05):
so, it is, uh, so our operations manager, Andy is, he
is all red.
Like, I mean, he looks like apack man about to eat the other
colors.
Like I'm so not emotional.
It's that, that, that, that a toZ.
I mean we joke when I come inhis office and start talking,

(44:28):
you can tell he'll just[inaudible] huh?
Yeah.
Ah.
I'm like, okay, I get it.
I'll leave.
Like, um, but you need that.
But so it takes all of us.
And I had a lot of insecuritiesabout who I was actually the
first one, we went to leadershipspotlight last year and we did
the color code.
Yeah.
And I was yellow.

(44:49):
I was, I started reading it andI just got super insecure cause
I'm like, Oh my gosh.
Like I pictured every businessowner as a red dominant, like
just a personality, just adriver.
Um, and that was not me.
I mean, I think the only personthere that had more yellow in
him was that magician that wasdoing like the presentation.

(45:10):
And I saw that and I was like,Oh my gosh.
But then you had everyoneseparate

Speaker 1 (45:15):
and there were so many yellow letters.
I was like, Oh, it like changedmy world because it was like, Oh
my gosh, I don't want you hatedyourself.
Cool.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Um, so my perception of what a business owner was,
was structured like done on, uh,everything laid out, no
questions asked.
This is what you do.
You know what Jack, Hey, you'renot wearing the uniform.
I need you to go home and comeback when you have the uniform
on.
Check in with me.
Thanks.
Bye.
Yeah.
Like that.
Um, let's just what I thoughtwas the only way to be a

(45:45):
successful business and it'snot, you need a team of people.
We need, we need allpersonalities to come together,
um, with a common goal.
And then you get to buildsomething amazing and you get to
do it with people whosestrengths are your weaknesses.
And, and we joke about it nowand, uh, very cool.
Yeah, it's um, it's a lot of funand we're just getting started.

(46:05):
That's the part that's soexciting cause we're just
entering this new year.
We're only one month in and I'mjust, I'm thrilled to see what
this year is gonna shake out.
I'm happy for you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Your family.
I'm happy for the good peoplethat work in McQuillan well done
man.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Really appreciate it.
Well done.
So this is a, this has been afascinating story.

(46:26):
So if you see a guy, he's got arather long beard,

Speaker 1 (46:30):
little duck dynasty, it's a little bit, all right.
If you see him, he's got thatlaugh.
You can't miss that laugh.
Hey, what's up?
He's great guy and you learn alot.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Uh, you know, you add a lot to the next door.
And thank you for the story,man.
Well, super grateful.
Appreciate everything Jack anduh, anything I can do, I'm all
in with you guys, so appreciateit.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Thank you all for listening to this very special
episode of leadership lounge isJack tester with John McQuillan
and we'll catch you next time.
Thanks so much.