September 27, 2025 • 33 mins
Ernest Lee Davis, a native of Los Angeles, California, spent most of his life there before earning an athletic scholarship to the University of Idaho, where he graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Communications. He earned his MBA from Western Governors University and will finish his Doctorate in Philosophy of Leadership with an emphasis on Servant-Leadership from Gonzaga University this year. Ernest has worked as a finish manager/leader in the aerospace industry for over 15 years at Skills Inc., a nonprofit organization that partners with The Boeing Company. He has dedicated his career to creating meaningful opportunities for persons with disabilities and other marginalized groups, encouraging an inclusive and diverse workforce.
A devoted follower of Jesus Christ, Ernest joined the Church in 2005 and is committed to living the Savior’s teachings and sharing his personal story of resilience. He is the author of the best-selling book Leading in the Lord’s Way: A Journey of Servant Leadership, and I Am Aye Child of God. At church, he has served as a member of his stake high council and currently as stake Young Men first counselor. Ernest and his wife, Ruth, have three children and live in Puyallup, Washington.
Links
Leading in the Lord's Way: A Journey of Servant Leadership
I am Aye Child of God
Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community
Summary
Ernest explores servant leadership principles and shares insights from his personal journey, emphasizing the importance of empathy, stewardship, and building a beloved community.
Key Insights
Servant Leadership: Ernest emphasizes the concept of leading through service, drawing on his experiences and the teachings of the gospel. He intertwines personal stories with leadership principles to illustrate how effective leadership is rooted in empathy and understanding.
Empathy: Understanding others' perspectives is crucial for effective leadership. Ernest shares examples of how empathy can help leaders connect with individuals from diverse backgrounds and support them in overcoming their challenges.
Stewardship: Leaders are responsible for nurturing the talents and potential of those they serve. Ernest encourages leaders to recognize their stewardship over individuals in their communities and to cultivate their growth.
Beloved Community: The idea of Zion as a beloved community is central to Ernest's message. He advocates for inclusivity and acceptance, stressing the importance of making everyone feel welcome and valued within the church.
Diversity in Leadership: Ernest highlights the need for diverse representation in leadership roles to better serve marginalized communities and to foster a more inclusive environment within the church.
Leadership Applications
Fostering Empathy: Latter-day Saint leaders can practice empathy by actively listening to the experiences of those they serve, which can help build trust and understanding within their communities.
Cultivating Talents: Leaders should focus on identifying and nurturing the unique talents of individuals in their wards, creating opportunities for them to contribute and grow.
Building Inclusive Communities: By promoting a sense of belonging and acceptance, leaders can create a welcoming environment that encourages participation from all members, regardless of their background or circumstances.
Highlights
00:03:17 - Inspiration for Writing the Book
Ernest shares what inspired him to write "Leading in the Lord's Way."
00:04:03 - Early Life and Challenges
Ernest discusses his upbringing, homelessness, and the journey to college football.
00:05:07 - Meeting the Missionaries
How Ernest first encountered the missionaries and his initial experience with the Book of Mormon.
00:06:32 - Knee Injury and Finding the Covenant Path
The impact of Ernest's knee injury on his life and how it led him to baptism.
00:06:43 - Leadership Aspirations
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
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(01:06):
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Welcome back to the leading saints podcast. Today,
(01:47):
we chat with Ernest Davis, who is a
success story in the church of Jesus Christ
of latter day saints. A phenomenal story, a
black Latter day Saint from Los Angeles, California
who was led to the church in a
really unique way at University of Idaho playing
after a, playing football up there and after
a a knee injury,
that thrust him onto the covenant path in
(02:08):
a very unique way. So he tells a
little bit bit of that story, and he's
also a leadership guy. He earned a doctorate
in philosophy of leadership from Gonzaga University.
So this guy knows his stuff, and he
wrote a book called Leading in the Lord's
Way, but he goes over 10 principles
talking about these and instructing about these in
the LDS context that you definitely need to
check out in this book. And we, talked
(02:30):
about them in this episode as well. So
you're gonna love his story. You're gonna love
his book. And I should mention that we
Leading Saints Zion Lab, which is our online
community where all the things are happening in
the world of Leading Saints. And so there's
a live studio audience that he and I
refer to from time to time. And if
you wanna
join in on some of these live recordings,
definitely go over to to, leadingsaints.org/zion
(02:53):
and participate in the Zion Land. It's awesome.
So here's my interview with Ernest Davis.
Alright, Ernest. You wrote the book, Leading in
the Lord's Way, and maybe tell us what
(03:14):
led up to this point where you thought
I'm gonna write a book about this stuff.
Well,
when I was kinda reading, the Joseph Smith
history,
it had there was a certain chapter that
said that the, prophets and apostles had learned
to lead in the Lord's way. And so
I was inspired at that time to
write a book that talked about leadership in
that aspect. And then at the same time,
(03:35):
I was starting a doctoral program in studying
servant leadership. And so I decided to kinda
intertwine what I had learned
with my testimony
as well as some of the teachings from
the gospel and then different aspects of leadership.
Awesome. Love it. Now your journey,
maybe I mean, there's probably a point in
your life you didn't expect to be at
the position you're at, and you joined the
(03:56):
church in your early twenties, if I remember
right. Maybe where does that story reach you,
and what should we understand about your early
upbringing?
Well, when I was in, late high school
and junior college, me and my twin brother,
Eric, he's actually on this call as well.
Oh, nice. We had found ourselves homeless, and
so we were attending LA Southwest Community College.
We were staying at different hotels from week
(04:18):
to week. And so then we we were
playing sports, playing football, and then we strive
to get a scholarship and then to improve
our life situation.
And so I talk a lot about that
in the book about how we had people
who helped us overcome our barriers and then
different aspects of our lives. He was leading,
and then I was serving or he was
serving me, and then I was following.
(04:40):
We were kinda switching the road between neuter
and follower and then helping each other, you
know, just survive the streets of Los Angeles,
spending a lot of time together. It was
just he and I and our mom.
We went, and then we finally got a
athletic scholarship to University of Idaho. And then
from there is where I was able to,
be baptized once I had a career ending
knee surgery. Oh, wow. And so what was
(05:03):
the story? Like, how did you come in
contact with the missionaries, or how did they
introduce you, or who Well, actually, I had
actually it's kind of funny. I had met
missionaries before in Los Angeles.
I had got suspended from school once in
the tenth grade, and I had got met
some missionaries at the park. My mom had
told me to go to the park for
the entire day until school is over. And
so, when I was leaving the park that
(05:24):
day, they had gave me a book of
Mormon, and I had read it. And then
I just kinda thought that I didn't realize
that there was another testament of Jesus Christ.
And so I read that and kinda didn't
think that another. I actually got halfway through
and then stopped. I had prayed to know
if the book of Mormon was true, but
I didn't get a immediate answer at that
time. Right? And I think, a couple of
years after that is when we had end
(05:45):
up being homeless, not having a place over
our head. And so after that, I met
missionaries in college when I had knee
surgery. They would come visit me.
My wife now, she had, read the scriptures
with me. She's a member of the church.
She was born and raised.
So once I had injured my knee, she
was, the one that kinda took me through
the steps of how I could get baptized
(06:07):
and kinda showing me the love that I
didn't feel at that time. When I blew
up my knee, I was very depressed
because I was you know, my only identity
was that of an athlete. And then coming
from Los Angeles, football had been my only
means of, like, separating myself from my struggles.
And so when it happened to me, it
was a very dark place for me, but
she helped me find a way out. And
then that's when I found the covenant path
(06:29):
and got baptized and starting to strengthen my
testimony.
That's awesome. And so when you were at
University of Idaho, was this was the leadership
path the plan then, or or was it
all, like, maybe the NFL? Did you have
a backup plan?
I think it was,
so to speak. You know, you think that
I mean, every inner city
(06:50):
athlete aspires to go to the NFL. And
I think for me, I was learning leadership
without knowing it. I think Eric and I
both became leaders. We had to lead ourselves
first, and we learned leader different leadership characteristics
like I talk about in my book, whether
it be listening, empathy,
or being able to solve problems. Right? I
think leadership is learned from the struggles that
you overcome. And so for me, it wasn't
(07:11):
really about leadership at that time until I
realized
at this point in my life that I
was practicing leadership characteristics.
And we had people in our lives that
help us, overcome those things like our coach
Henry Washington
at LA Southwest. He had helped us overcome
a lot of barriers.
And so for me, it was really leadership
is about removing barriers barriers from people so
(07:32):
that they can grow us to their fullest
potential.
Yeah. What was it about that coach? I
mean, was there a certain approach he took
to help you through those things? Or Well,
he had, so Eric was on the phone
one day, and he was, talking to a
hotel manager,
asking or pleading for one more night stay
in the hotel.
And he had said that he had heard
(07:53):
us overtalking,
and then it really rocked him to the
core where he wanted to offer us plan
to improve our situation.
So he sat Eric and I down. He
gave us a plan, a process of how
we can improve ourselves, taking
as many classes
a semester,
maximizing
our, opportunity, like taking
many classes as we could each semester,
(08:14):
going to football practice. He provided us with
jobs,
and then he also provided us with financial
aid, all the different resources that we needed
to be successful. And then from that point,
we just followed his process and we, graduated
within a year and a half. And then
we were able to, you know, leave Los
Angeles to go to University of Idaho. One
cool thing about coach Washington, I don't I
(08:34):
I still talk to him to this day.
And one of the things he had he
had told me about the story of how
he had got a master's
before,
a master's degree before he became the athletic
director at LA Southwest. And he said that
the BYU had offered
a master's program,
and they would send professors out to inner
(08:55):
city Los Angeles and teach them at the
local chapels
every two weeks. And that was in eighteen
eighties or late seventies. And so you kinda
think of that aspect where BYU was able
to offer him a path. Right? So he
was able to get education. After that, he
became a coach.
And then from there, he ended up touching
Eric and Eric and I's lives in ways
(09:16):
that we didn't expect. Wow. That's the whole
servant leadership aspect where, you know, the church
went out of their way not to be
acclaimed for it or to be notarized for
it. But they offer it, like, education opportunities
from people in inner city Los Angeles.
And then, you know, what did the coach
Washington do with that opportunity? It helped other
disadvantaged
young black men in his community. Man, that
(09:38):
influence just, it's like that domino effect. Right?
And so where where he was just happened
to be standing in the hotel and heard
that conversation? That's how you no. Actually, we
were staying outside of his office.
He had a window that was open to
the outside, and so we were standing there.
It was, I think, either after practice or
before practice,
and, he heard us overtalking. And he still
(09:59):
remembers that day to up until now and
how he felt so, bad for us and,
you know, he wanted to help us. Yeah.
And then that led that began your journey
to Idaho to play football there? Yeah. We,
we just continued to process. I mean, our
nose was in the books or on the
field. We we were on the grind, so
to speak. We didn't let anything stop us.
(10:21):
We had to maintain a certain lifestyle even
just because we didn't have the resources to,
you know, go out and do all the
different things that maybe some youth may do.
So we just stuck to the discipline of
it all and,
just strive to improve our our life situation.
Yeah. And then is there anything else about
your upbringing or early life that we should
put into contact?
(10:41):
My I had a older brother who played
professional football for a time. He was a
big influence for Eric and I. He taught
us how to play football, how to do
use different techniques, and just being able to
develop that resilience.
A chapter in my book, I call it
the touted tenth,
where, you know, you provide certain individuals those
opportunities, and that is enough for us to
(11:02):
uplift entire communities
where you provide a path for others to
follow, whether it's me and Eric or someone
else. When you
see someone from your community or from your
struggles that you may encounter achieve success,
you're able to visualize it for yourself. So
that's kind of one of the biggest things
for us when we were growing up is
we had Chris as a model of how
(11:23):
we could learn the different techniques of football.
We had coach Washington who provided us a
path, and that's the whole idea of servant
leadership is to provide that path for others.
Yeah. I love it. I'm just curious with
the the focus with servant leadership with marginalized
communities. Is that your focus in your studies
or just in general with your life experience?
I think it's in general my life experiences.
(11:45):
I work at Skills Inc, so it's a
nonprofit organization in Auburn, Washington. And so we
employ persons with disabilities.
And then just trying to uplift people who
don't traditionally get those
opportunities, like underrepresented groups, trying to inspire change
in those communities. Because it's hard for someone
to learn the gospel,
learn leadership, or learn how to follow someone
(12:06):
towards a righteous path when their ribs are
touching or when they, like all the necessary
resources to be successful. Right? I mean, think
about it. If you if you have a
choice between going to church or going out
to the streets and hustling or doing whatever
it is to survive,
you're gonna worry about surviving first. And so
it's really about what can we do as
(12:27):
leaders within the church or outside of the
church to help people
look past their barriers or overcome their barriers
so that they can find whether it's the
teachings of Jesus Christ or education opportunities,
leadership opportunities.
Because those opportunities help represent not only just
one particular group, but the diversity of the
beloved community that I talk about. Like, you
(12:48):
know, heavenly father loves all of us as
his children, and it should look diverse, and
we should support one another as if it
is that. Yeah. And I'm just curious, like,
from a church leadership standpoint,
any advice on how we can focus on
the least of these, you know, these marginalized
groups or help facilitate that so they actually
have you know, they actually can start the
(13:08):
journey in the gospel or continue in the
gospel. Yeah. I think it's representation is really
important. Like, obviously,
if you have more diversity in leadership, you're
able to reach out to those individuals,
And not just diversity in regards to race.
I think a lot of times we racialize
things.
I think diversity in our upbringing,
our way of thinking, and then trying to
(13:30):
reach out to those and look at different
ways that you can help someone. Right? And
I think, the church as a whole is
doing a lot of different programs that help
marginalized communities. That's why you see a lot
of the church growth outside The US in
places like Africa or
Latin America,
all these different places outside of our country
where, you know, you have programs like succeed
(13:52):
in school, the BYU pathway program,
all these different programs that the church offers,
not only do they share the gospel, but
they remove the barriers that prevent someone from
hearing the message. And that's the key aspect
of leadership is what message can I share
with this individual, whether as a leader or
as a follower of Christ? What message can
I share with the individual
that will help them overcome their barriers
(14:15):
and show them that god loves them?
Yeah. And I'm just curious if I'd love
to focus on, you know, diversity. And, again,
not just racial diversity, but just maybe economic
diversity or someone with a similar background
that maybe understands those resources. If they're, you
know, if they're struggling to maybe find that
diversity,
is it a matter of, like, reaching out
to some of these programs in the community,
(14:37):
or are there is that maybe the a
good place to start? Yeah. I think it's
a good place to start. When you reach
out to those different programs within the community,
you'll see that the leadership
within the church changes. It's more diverse.
Like, if you were to go and look
at missionary presidents or managers for, you know,
different areas in the Africa, they're gonna be
(14:57):
a representation of that community. And I think,
you know, as we continue to not just
look within our wards, our stakes, we'll see
that the leadership in the church is diverse.
And then we shouldn't look at it from
what we think diversity is. It's like you
said, the socioeconomic
aspect, you know, from state to state, you
know, like the culture, the Latter Day Saint
culture in Washington may be a little different
(15:19):
from the Latter Day Saint culture in Utah.
Yeah. That's for sure. And, you know, just
trying to navigate those different communities
and understand that the gospel of Jesus Christ
is the same no matter where you go
in the world. And then trying to not
trying to look past the cultural barriers are,
you know, what I would call prejudices
that we have towards different aspects. So, you
(15:39):
know, different groups are, you know, upgrades.
Yeah. Anybody else, in your story that stands
out like, coach Washington or your wife or
anybody else? I have so many people. I
mean, we all have our coach Washingtons. Right?
I mean, those people who've believed in us.
Man. So I wouldn't say that there's a
certain person. I think there's an idea of
what I look to. Like, I have people
(16:00):
at work, my boss or my,
chief operating director at my, job. He's a
very good mentor of mine. His name is
Charlie Frampton.
I have Ruth. I have all of Ruth's
family. You know, I didn't have, very many
male role models in my life. So for
me to have her family to kinda show
me what the priesthood looks like, her father.
(16:20):
I mean, there's so many different examples
of people who helped me see the potential
within myself
and then allow me the opportunity to do,
to reach it. Yeah. And it sounds like,
you know, great influences in lives, you know,
is crucial, especially maybe for troubled teens or
those, you know, in tough spots of life.
Any other advice you give to wards or
(16:41):
parents who are worried about their teenagers or
their YSA
members?
I think if you're a parent or a
coach,
anyone in a leadership position I mean, leadership
is very diverse. I think it's when you're
leading and you're a parent or you're a
coach, I think you would wanna meet that
person where they're at. So you identify where
(17:01):
they're at and not to judge them, but
to just try to see
what they need in their lives to help
them reach their potential.
And to help them understand that they already
have potential
is not for them to feel like they
need to earn it or to have someone
give it to them. It's just providing them
the right opportunity that's unique to them. I
mean, with so many times, we expect people
(17:23):
to get somewhere and we don't meet them
where they're at. Coach Washington
met us where we're at, where we're at.
Ruth met us where we're at, you know,
my,
brother and I. And, like, we continue to
overcome those barriers when someone can come to
our position, to our perspective, and see what
they look like. And then say, hey. I
know that's a struggle for you. What can
(17:44):
I do to help you? How can I
help? Right? From a place of empathy, not
from a place of judgment or to get
anything out of it. Yeah. Is there any
other examples as far as, like, servant leadership
that we should consider as as church leaders,
either, you know, principles or parts of your
story?
So the different principles is 10 characteristics
that we can develop to be more
(18:06):
servant leading. It's listening, awareness,
foresight, persuasion,
and then, stewardship,
trying to help with the growth of people,
empathy,
healing, and then conceptualization,
and then establishing
a beloved community.
And it all begins with a place of
love. Right? I think, we understand
that we love
(18:27):
all children of God and then understand that
there's no difference when that message is the
same. For me, you know, like, if I'm
looking at certain leadership, I look at historical
leaders. Many of the things that really resonated
with me is
doctor King or, Frederick Douglass, Booker t Washington,
some of the historical servant leaders. They had
the same message as some of our church
(18:48):
leaders, our prophets and apostles. And it was
the same message of love, right, and to
not just be a leader from
a title, from a dictatorship, but leading in
a way where we follow the teachings of
Christ.
And we lead
as Christ did, not from a place of
authority, but from a place of action and
a place of
(19:08):
love. Yeah. I love that. And, you know,
there's so many opportunities. Some of those characters,
there were so many opportunities for them to
go to war, right, and to fight back
or, you know, push back. But in reality,
they responded with love, and that really furthered
their mission
farther than any war or, you know, violence
could have done. Yep. And I, you know,
I talk about the prophet Joseph Smith and
his experience with Zion's camp in the book
(19:29):
as well. You know, they were being persecuted,
and they they were traveling. And they one
of the things that Joseph Smith did
is he ministered to those who were in
pain or who were injured along the trip.
Right? So instead of trying to tell people
what to do
or focusing on the trials that they were
facing, he chose to serve. And that's where
that whole concept is. You know, the account
(19:51):
says that they had learned to lead in
the Lord's way when he was ministering to
them, offering them precept blessings,
helping them not be,
kinda add, you know,
oppositional towards one another when things got hard
because they, face a lot of adversity.
And so for them him to focus on
those Christ like characteristics
to lead in a way where he was
(20:12):
ministering,
grabbing anyone who who was willing to follow
and to lead them on the covenant path
was pretty cool. Yeah. You mentioned those 10
principles as far as, like, servant leadership. Do
you go over each one of those in
in the book?
Yes. I go over it and I kind
of interweave it with the life experience.
So I kind of jump around with my
(20:32):
life story, and I apply different things that
I, encountered growing up or some of the
experiences that I had to each characteristic.
Awesome. And are there or a handful, two
or three that you'd wanna focus on just
to give us a taste of, you know,
in a church leadership context? I would say
stewardship,
the beloved community,
(20:53):
and,
empathy.
Love it. Where would we start with stewardship?
Stewardship is, you know, we have,
talent, and then we have people within our
ward or our stakes that we are stewards
over. And so, you know, making sure that
we grow our talent in a certain way.
I was at a leadership,
or a or a priesthood,
(21:14):
meeting yesterday.
You know, some people, maybe they invite more
people to church or they may hand out
the book of Mormon. And then maybe me,
I write a book or, you know, some
people are really good at speaking.
And you're, you know, blessed with these opportunities
based off the talents that you have to
share a message. And it doesn't matter if
it's a prominent position where you make a
(21:35):
lot of money or if it's a humble
position,
just being able to utilize your talents and
growing them. Kinda like me being on this
podcast or me continuing to write, what can
I do with my talents to
develop them in a way where I can
share a message or share Christ's message?
So for me, it could be that or,
you know, if we're over a ward or
a stake, how we cultivate in the talents
(21:57):
within our the different offices, whether it be
the youth or the relief society,
within the presale, how can we cultivate
those individuals
that we stew over? Yeah. And I love
that because you could have written all sorts
of leadership books, especially in your journey with
graduate work and leadership, but you wrote a
book for the church or for Latter day
Saints. Right? And that's not that, you know,
(22:18):
you can write all sorts of books in
the future as well, but it's a great
way to give back and to recognize your
stewardship. Yeah. In my book, I share a
message from my,
Ruth's
grandfather where he was, from the island of
Samoa,
Western Samoa, and he was a stake president.
And he would, travel from, stake award award
when he gave his, speeches,
(22:40):
you know, because, he would have to talk
at different awards.
And so what he would do is he
would walk to each village to give a
talk. And before he would leave or before
he would, give his presentation or his talk,
he would meticulously
fold his clothes and put them into
his bag so that they wouldn't get, you
know, overly sweaty. Right? And then being able
(23:00):
to travel to each village and share a
message
and then teaching that to
to his children. Or he had a a
store where he would invite some of the
youth
from the surrounding villages,
invite them to his home, treat them as
if they were his children. So for me,
that was like a good, example of stewardship
(23:20):
where you're really taking into account your calling.
Right? Or, you know, the responsibility to go
teach or speak where, you know, he took
the time to walk to each village at
that time and to really want to represent
the lord in a certain way. And then
also inviting everyone in his, you know, in
the surrounding villages who may need food or
(23:41):
needed a place to stay into his home.
Yeah. Love that. Anything else with, stewardship that
needs to be mentioned? I think just continue
to understand the gifts that we have and
not to bury them in the ground, but
to continue to cultivate them in a way
that brings, light to someone else. Yep. So
So tell me about beloved community.
If you were to think about Zion, that's
(24:01):
the beloved community. Right? Like, if we were
to look at it from a church context
where everyone is invited, where there's a sense
of belonging, where
you want everyone to be part of the
of this community,
and we accept all people as they are.
We accept differences.
We acknowledge that they go through struggles, but
then we help them overcome their struggles by
(24:23):
inviting them into our community, where we strive
to make them feel welcome. So if we
were to invite someone into, you know, the
ward or, you know, to invite them into
our home, making sure that that there's a
sense of belonging. And we only can do
that when we know that, when we acknowledge
that we're all children of God and, we
wanna establish
Zion here on Earth by being peacemakers.
(24:44):
Right? And so we don't, you know, you
don't look at people just because of their,
different affiliations. Maybe they may remember the church,
maybe they're not, but you still make them
feel welcome.
Yeah. I love that. Just the community part
that we're not so much a church as
we are a community or or a Zion
community. Yeah. I agree. Hopefully, everybody feels that
as they engage with with the church. Yeah.
(25:05):
When I first began going to church, I
didn't have all the church clothes and stuff.
I had met Ruth in, so I didn't
have a a suitor, you know, or anything
like that. But when I would go, I
would have just a t shirt on. It
was my best dressed at the time. You
know? So Yeah. But, you know, for me
to go into a place and feel welcome
is, really important. Right? And so it helped
(25:25):
me keep going
to church. Right? Or even for Ruth, she
would,
tie
a tie for me because I didn't know
how to tie a tie. So she would
tie it around her neck and then give
it to me. Right? So it kinda making
me feel like, I belong when I did
get the get the opportunity to have that
tie or the shirt that I needed to,
you know, feel more comfortable in church.
(25:47):
Yeah. Love that. Alright. Tell me about empathy.
Empathy. That's one of my favorites because you
want to understand people's perspective.
I share my book about when I was
in LA Southwest, I had met a young
man. He was in one of my math
classes and he was, from the local Crip
game. And he had came in there, he
was all beat up, and, you know, he
(26:09):
had so much potential because he actually knew
all the answers to a lot of the
questions, but because he had certain barriers,
but he didn't obviously make it as far
as I did. But when you kinda take
a step back and put yourself in the
shoes of others, you know, you begin to
understand their story. Instead of judging,
you know, maybe you can take the time
to walk in their shoes. Right?
(26:30):
Walk in his blue Chuck Taylor, so to
speak. And if you were to walk in
his blue Chuck Taylors and understand some of
the barriers that he encountered, would you still
judge him the same way?
What would be the answers to some of
the problems that he had? Like, what would
be your choice if you had that kind
of scenario?
You know, like, if we're in leadership positions,
(26:50):
whether it's in the church or outside of
the church, having the empathy to
understand someone's struggles and look at it from
a perspective
of what are they going through and how
can I help them?
How can I feel that same emotion that
they feel? Similar to Jesus Christ. Right? He
helped the least of these throughout his ministry.
(27:10):
He would meet them where they're at, and
he would offer a place of, he would
always,
be empathetic
towards the one. Right?
Yeah. And definitely in this effort as we
reach out to minority communities or minority you
know, the atypical person in our community,
we're gonna need a lot of empathy because
most likely we won't relate specifically to their
(27:30):
story. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the only
way we can relate to someone's story is
through empathy. It's kinda like the adulteress woman.
Everyone
was,
judging her. And then Christ came, and he
came from a place of empathy. And he
placed a crown on her, on her head
before she knew it was, on top of
it and allowed her to grow into it,
right, by showing her the empathy and the
(27:52):
forgiveness that she needed. And what if we
were to do the same? Like, despite someone's
past history or despite the struggle that they
endured,
what if we were to come from a
place of empathy and place a crown on
their head by the way we treat them,
by the way we lead and the way
that we interact with them? Then they would
eventually find the covenant path. You know, whether
it's now or in the future time, it's
(28:14):
important for us to just be able to
be empathetic. Right? I mean, and listen and
to
just help someone,
love someone, like, similar to how Christ did.
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, Ernest, any other
point principle concept that we need to make
sure we include?
No. I think,
diversity and, you know, sharing our testimonies. You
(28:35):
know, this book was a opportunity for me
to share my testimony that's obviously very unique,
but then different from your typical, you know,
church or a Latter day Saint book. And
so I hope that, you know, people take
the time to read it or take the
time to understand what it means to
lead as an action and not be a
leader, you know, as a noun. Right? Like,
trying to lead as a verb and, you
(28:57):
know, put people in positions for success
and then understanding what you can do to
be more like Jesus Christ. Love it. And
if people wanna check out the book, obviously,
Amazon is the place, but or any other
place you would send them if they wanna
learn about more about you, your work, or
the book?
Yeah. You can go to,
Amazon. It's just fine or Cedar Fort Publishing
(29:17):
and Media. You can also find the book
or Deseret Books.
Yeah. You can find it at any of
those locations.
Love it. Very good. So what's the next
book, Ernest?
I'm actually thinking about writing a book on
the ironic priesthood,
and then it's called tap in the Lord's
work. So tap in tap is, teaching ironic
priesthood principles.
So it's something I was kinda inspired to
(29:39):
do when I went to, Elimin and Camp
Moroni this past summer. So of a unique
opportunity.
Me and my boys were able to walk,
you know, Zion's Camp. So for me being
of African American descent, obviously, that's not, something
that's always been offered to us. So it
was a very unique opportunity
for us to walk, you know, for me
to do to do it for the first
(29:59):
time and to do with my sons was
pretty cool. And so I was really prompted,
you know, to write something like that for
them and to kinda share my testimony and
that whole experience.
I love that. I think that'll be a
great book, and we'll have to do another
conversation when it comes to that.
So really good. Well, definitely hopefully, people check
out the book. Again, it's Leading in the
Lord's Way, a Journey of Servant Leadership.
(30:22):
Last question I have for you, Ernest, is
as you reflect on your life and how
you've led, how has being a leader helped
you become a better follower of Jesus Christ?
Well, I look to Christ as my example
or I learned that leading is always continuously
evolving. Right? And for me to kind of
learn from my experiences
at the time when I was going through
everything that I went through, I would have
(30:43):
not thought it was to my at I
didn't think it was advantageous. Right? I didn't
think it was gonna be for my benefit.
But when I look back on it now,
I understand that it developed me in a
way where I can lead more effectively, where
I can lead with empathy, or I can
understand the perspective of someone who does not
have certain things.
And so for me, I think it's just
understanding that whatever we go through in life,
(31:04):
whether it be difficult
or somewhat with ease, I know, and I
think Eric can testify to it as well,
that it developed us to be better men
and which helped us be better leaders within
the home. And then we all looked at
our struggles that way, knowing that God was
preparing us for a great work, that he
was preparing us to lead in his way,
which is not from a organization,
(31:25):
it's not from place of authority.
It's from a place of humble position where
we learn from our experiences and take those
experiences to help out other people, to share
a message, and to help others
find the covenant path.
(31:45):
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints
podcast. We'd love to hear from you about
your questions or thoughts or comments. You can
either leave a comment on the, post related
to this episode at leadingsaints.org,
or go to leadingsaints.org/contact
and send us your perspective or questions. If
there's other episodes or topics you'd like to
hear on the Leading Saints podcast, go to
leadingsaints.org/contact
(32:06):
and share with us the information there. And
we would love for you to share this
with any individual you think this would apply
to, especially maybe individuals in your ward council
or other leaders that you may know who
would really appreciate the perspectives that we discussed.
(32:29):
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
When the declaration
was made concerning the only
true and living Church upon the face of
the earth,
(32:50):
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness, the loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.
Alright. Here's our goal, folks. Leading Saints is
no longer a podcast. Well, obviously, we are
a podcast. We will continue to podcast, but
we're really shifting our focus over to Zion
Lab, which is an online community
put on and developed by leading saints.
And this is where we want to go
and gather the masses
and share ideas about leadership, share ideas about
(00:23):
different callings, share ideas about building Zion.
And this is the place that we want
to make online, where all things are discussed,
great ideas are shared, and that we can
help one another in whatever calling we're in
or what calling we're not in to feel
like, you know, I've got purpose here. I
can really make a difference in shifting culture
in a better way or developing Zion in
my own corner of the kingdom. So join
(00:44):
us over at Zion Lab at leadingsaints.org/zion,
and there you can just jump in. It's
free to join and create a profile and
jump in and and look around and answer
some questions. Leave a comment. Pose a question.
And I think you'll benefit from the things
we're doing over at Zion Lab. So join
us. Hey. Welcome to the Leading Saints podcast.
(01:06):
Now for many of you that are brand
new, to Leading Saints, it's important that you
know that Leading Saints is a nonprofit organization,
five zero one c three, dedicated to helping
Latter day Saints be better prepared to lead,
and we do that through
content creation. We get so much positive feedback
on the podcast, our virtual conferences, the articles
on our website.
(01:26):
You definitely gotta check it out at leadingsaints.org.
And on on their homepage at leadingsaints.org,
you can actually find the top six most
downloaded episodes to the podcast. So if you're
new, like the content, want to jump into
some of our most popular episodes, head there
after you listen to this.
Welcome back to the leading saints podcast. Today,
(01:47):
we chat with Ernest Davis, who is a
success story in the church of Jesus Christ
of latter day saints. A phenomenal story, a
black Latter day Saint from Los Angeles, California
who was led to the church in a
really unique way at University of Idaho playing
after a, playing football up there and after
a a knee injury,
that thrust him onto the covenant path in
(02:08):
a very unique way. So he tells a
little bit bit of that story, and he's
also a leadership guy. He earned a doctorate
in philosophy of leadership from Gonzaga University.
So this guy knows his stuff, and he
wrote a book called Leading in the Lord's
Way, but he goes over 10 principles
talking about these and instructing about these in
the LDS context that you definitely need to
check out in this book. And we, talked
(02:30):
about them in this episode as well. So
you're gonna love his story. You're gonna love
his book. And I should mention that we
Leading Saints Zion Lab, which is our online
community where all the things are happening in
the world of Leading Saints. And so there's
a live studio audience that he and I
refer to from time to time. And if
you wanna
join in on some of these live recordings,
definitely go over to to, leadingsaints.org/zion
(02:53):
and participate in the Zion Land. It's awesome.
So here's my interview with Ernest Davis.
Alright, Ernest. You wrote the book, Leading in
the Lord's Way, and maybe tell us what
(03:14):
led up to this point where you thought
I'm gonna write a book about this stuff.
Well,
when I was kinda reading, the Joseph Smith
history,
it had there was a certain chapter that
said that the, prophets and apostles had learned
to lead in the Lord's way. And so
I was inspired at that time to
write a book that talked about leadership in
that aspect. And then at the same time,
(03:35):
I was starting a doctoral program in studying
servant leadership. And so I decided to kinda
intertwine what I had learned
with my testimony
as well as some of the teachings from
the gospel and then different aspects of leadership.
Awesome. Love it. Now your journey,
maybe I mean, there's probably a point in
your life you didn't expect to be at
the position you're at, and you joined the
(03:56):
church in your early twenties, if I remember
right. Maybe where does that story reach you,
and what should we understand about your early
upbringing?
Well, when I was in, late high school
and junior college, me and my twin brother,
Eric, he's actually on this call as well.
Oh, nice. We had found ourselves homeless, and
so we were attending LA Southwest Community College.
We were staying at different hotels from week
(04:18):
to week. And so then we we were
playing sports, playing football, and then we strive
to get a scholarship and then to improve
our life situation.
And so I talk a lot about that
in the book about how we had people
who helped us overcome our barriers and then
different aspects of our lives. He was leading,
and then I was serving or he was
serving me, and then I was following.
(04:40):
We were kinda switching the road between neuter
and follower and then helping each other, you
know, just survive the streets of Los Angeles,
spending a lot of time together. It was
just he and I and our mom.
We went, and then we finally got a
athletic scholarship to University of Idaho. And then
from there is where I was able to,
be baptized once I had a career ending
knee surgery. Oh, wow. And so what was
(05:03):
the story? Like, how did you come in
contact with the missionaries, or how did they
introduce you, or who Well, actually, I had
actually it's kind of funny. I had met
missionaries before in Los Angeles.
I had got suspended from school once in
the tenth grade, and I had got met
some missionaries at the park. My mom had
told me to go to the park for
the entire day until school is over. And
so, when I was leaving the park that
(05:24):
day, they had gave me a book of
Mormon, and I had read it. And then
I just kinda thought that I didn't realize
that there was another testament of Jesus Christ.
And so I read that and kinda didn't
think that another. I actually got halfway through
and then stopped. I had prayed to know
if the book of Mormon was true, but
I didn't get a immediate answer at that
time. Right? And I think, a couple of
years after that is when we had end
(05:45):
up being homeless, not having a place over
our head. And so after that, I met
missionaries in college when I had knee
surgery. They would come visit me.
My wife now, she had, read the scriptures
with me. She's a member of the church.
She was born and raised.
So once I had injured my knee, she
was, the one that kinda took me through
the steps of how I could get baptized
(06:07):
and kinda showing me the love that I
didn't feel at that time. When I blew
up my knee, I was very depressed
because I was you know, my only identity
was that of an athlete. And then coming
from Los Angeles, football had been my only
means of, like, separating myself from my struggles.
And so when it happened to me, it
was a very dark place for me, but
she helped me find a way out. And
then that's when I found the covenant path
(06:29):
and got baptized and starting to strengthen my
testimony.
That's awesome. And so when you were at
University of Idaho, was this was the leadership
path the plan then, or or was it
all, like, maybe the NFL? Did you have
a backup plan?
I think it was,
so to speak. You know, you think that
I mean, every inner city
(06:50):
athlete aspires to go to the NFL. And
I think for me, I was learning leadership
without knowing it. I think Eric and I
both became leaders. We had to lead ourselves
first, and we learned leader different leadership characteristics
like I talk about in my book, whether
it be listening, empathy,
or being able to solve problems. Right? I
think leadership is learned from the struggles that
you overcome. And so for me, it wasn't
(07:11):
really about leadership at that time until I
realized
at this point in my life that I
was practicing leadership characteristics.
And we had people in our lives that
help us, overcome those things like our coach
Henry Washington
at LA Southwest. He had helped us overcome
a lot of barriers.
And so for me, it was really leadership
is about removing barriers barriers from people so
(07:32):
that they can grow us to their fullest
potential.
Yeah. What was it about that coach? I
mean, was there a certain approach he took
to help you through those things? Or Well,
he had, so Eric was on the phone
one day, and he was, talking to a
hotel manager,
asking or pleading for one more night stay
in the hotel.
And he had said that he had heard
(07:53):
us overtalking,
and then it really rocked him to the
core where he wanted to offer us plan
to improve our situation.
So he sat Eric and I down. He
gave us a plan, a process of how
we can improve ourselves, taking
as many classes
a semester,
maximizing
our, opportunity, like taking
many classes as we could each semester,
(08:14):
going to football practice. He provided us with
jobs,
and then he also provided us with financial
aid, all the different resources that we needed
to be successful. And then from that point,
we just followed his process and we, graduated
within a year and a half. And then
we were able to, you know, leave Los
Angeles to go to University of Idaho. One
cool thing about coach Washington, I don't I
(08:34):
I still talk to him to this day.
And one of the things he had he
had told me about the story of how
he had got a master's
before,
a master's degree before he became the athletic
director at LA Southwest. And he said that
the BYU had offered
a master's program,
and they would send professors out to inner
(08:55):
city Los Angeles and teach them at the
local chapels
every two weeks. And that was in eighteen
eighties or late seventies. And so you kinda
think of that aspect where BYU was able
to offer him a path. Right? So he
was able to get education. After that, he
became a coach.
And then from there, he ended up touching
Eric and Eric and I's lives in ways
(09:16):
that we didn't expect. Wow. That's the whole
servant leadership aspect where, you know, the church
went out of their way not to be
acclaimed for it or to be notarized for
it. But they offer it, like, education opportunities
from people in inner city Los Angeles.
And then, you know, what did the coach
Washington do with that opportunity? It helped other
disadvantaged
young black men in his community. Man, that
(09:38):
influence just, it's like that domino effect. Right?
And so where where he was just happened
to be standing in the hotel and heard
that conversation? That's how you no. Actually, we
were staying outside of his office.
He had a window that was open to
the outside, and so we were standing there.
It was, I think, either after practice or
before practice,
and, he heard us overtalking. And he still
(09:59):
remembers that day to up until now and
how he felt so, bad for us and,
you know, he wanted to help us. Yeah.
And then that led that began your journey
to Idaho to play football there? Yeah. We,
we just continued to process. I mean, our
nose was in the books or on the
field. We we were on the grind, so
to speak. We didn't let anything stop us.
(10:21):
We had to maintain a certain lifestyle even
just because we didn't have the resources to,
you know, go out and do all the
different things that maybe some youth may do.
So we just stuck to the discipline of
it all and,
just strive to improve our our life situation.
Yeah. And then is there anything else about
your upbringing or early life that we should
put into contact?
(10:41):
My I had a older brother who played
professional football for a time. He was a
big influence for Eric and I. He taught
us how to play football, how to do
use different techniques, and just being able to
develop that resilience.
A chapter in my book, I call it
the touted tenth,
where, you know, you provide certain individuals those
opportunities, and that is enough for us to
(11:02):
uplift entire communities
where you provide a path for others to
follow, whether it's me and Eric or someone
else. When you
see someone from your community or from your
struggles that you may encounter achieve success,
you're able to visualize it for yourself. So
that's kind of one of the biggest things
for us when we were growing up is
we had Chris as a model of how
(11:23):
we could learn the different techniques of football.
We had coach Washington who provided us a
path, and that's the whole idea of servant
leadership is to provide that path for others.
Yeah. I love it. I'm just curious with
the the focus with servant leadership with marginalized
communities. Is that your focus in your studies
or just in general with your life experience?
I think it's in general my life experiences.
(11:45):
I work at Skills Inc, so it's a
nonprofit organization in Auburn, Washington. And so we
employ persons with disabilities.
And then just trying to uplift people who
don't traditionally get those
opportunities, like underrepresented groups, trying to inspire change
in those communities. Because it's hard for someone
to learn the gospel,
learn leadership, or learn how to follow someone
(12:06):
towards a righteous path when their ribs are
touching or when they, like all the necessary
resources to be successful. Right? I mean, think
about it. If you if you have a
choice between going to church or going out
to the streets and hustling or doing whatever
it is to survive,
you're gonna worry about surviving first. And so
it's really about what can we do as
(12:27):
leaders within the church or outside of the
church to help people
look past their barriers or overcome their barriers
so that they can find whether it's the
teachings of Jesus Christ or education opportunities,
leadership opportunities.
Because those opportunities help represent not only just
one particular group, but the diversity of the
beloved community that I talk about. Like, you
(12:48):
know, heavenly father loves all of us as
his children, and it should look diverse, and
we should support one another as if it
is that. Yeah. And I'm just curious, like,
from a church leadership standpoint,
any advice on how we can focus on
the least of these, you know, these marginalized
groups or help facilitate that so they actually
have you know, they actually can start the
(13:08):
journey in the gospel or continue in the
gospel. Yeah. I think it's representation is really
important. Like, obviously,
if you have more diversity in leadership, you're
able to reach out to those individuals,
And not just diversity in regards to race.
I think a lot of times we racialize
things.
I think diversity in our upbringing,
our way of thinking, and then trying to
(13:30):
reach out to those and look at different
ways that you can help someone. Right? And
I think, the church as a whole is
doing a lot of different programs that help
marginalized communities. That's why you see a lot
of the church growth outside The US in
places like Africa or
Latin America,
all these different places outside of our country
where, you know, you have programs like succeed
(13:52):
in school, the BYU pathway program,
all these different programs that the church offers,
not only do they share the gospel, but
they remove the barriers that prevent someone from
hearing the message. And that's the key aspect
of leadership is what message can I share
with this individual, whether as a leader or
as a follower of Christ? What message can
I share with the individual
that will help them overcome their barriers
(14:15):
and show them that god loves them?
Yeah. And I'm just curious if I'd love
to focus on, you know, diversity. And, again,
not just racial diversity, but just maybe economic
diversity or someone with a similar background
that maybe understands those resources. If they're, you
know, if they're struggling to maybe find that
diversity,
is it a matter of, like, reaching out
to some of these programs in the community,
(14:37):
or are there is that maybe the a
good place to start? Yeah. I think it's
a good place to start. When you reach
out to those different programs within the community,
you'll see that the leadership
within the church changes. It's more diverse.
Like, if you were to go and look
at missionary presidents or managers for, you know,
different areas in the Africa, they're gonna be
(14:57):
a representation of that community. And I think,
you know, as we continue to not just
look within our wards, our stakes, we'll see
that the leadership in the church is diverse.
And then we shouldn't look at it from
what we think diversity is. It's like you
said, the socioeconomic
aspect, you know, from state to state, you
know, like the culture, the Latter Day Saint
culture in Washington may be a little different
(15:19):
from the Latter Day Saint culture in Utah.
Yeah. That's for sure. And, you know, just
trying to navigate those different communities
and understand that the gospel of Jesus Christ
is the same no matter where you go
in the world. And then trying to not
trying to look past the cultural barriers are,
you know, what I would call prejudices
that we have towards different aspects. So, you
(15:39):
know, different groups are, you know, upgrades.
Yeah. Anybody else, in your story that stands
out like, coach Washington or your wife or
anybody else? I have so many people. I
mean, we all have our coach Washingtons. Right?
I mean, those people who've believed in us.
Man. So I wouldn't say that there's a
certain person. I think there's an idea of
what I look to. Like, I have people
(16:00):
at work, my boss or my,
chief operating director at my, job. He's a
very good mentor of mine. His name is
Charlie Frampton.
I have Ruth. I have all of Ruth's
family. You know, I didn't have, very many
male role models in my life. So for
me to have her family to kinda show
me what the priesthood looks like, her father.
(16:20):
I mean, there's so many different examples
of people who helped me see the potential
within myself
and then allow me the opportunity to do,
to reach it. Yeah. And it sounds like,
you know, great influences in lives, you know,
is crucial, especially maybe for troubled teens or
those, you know, in tough spots of life.
Any other advice you give to wards or
(16:41):
parents who are worried about their teenagers or
their YSA
members?
I think if you're a parent or a
coach,
anyone in a leadership position I mean, leadership
is very diverse. I think it's when you're
leading and you're a parent or you're a
coach, I think you would wanna meet that
person where they're at. So you identify where
(17:01):
they're at and not to judge them, but
to just try to see
what they need in their lives to help
them reach their potential.
And to help them understand that they already
have potential
is not for them to feel like they
need to earn it or to have someone
give it to them. It's just providing them
the right opportunity that's unique to them. I
mean, with so many times, we expect people
(17:23):
to get somewhere and we don't meet them
where they're at. Coach Washington
met us where we're at, where we're at.
Ruth met us where we're at, you know,
my,
brother and I. And, like, we continue to
overcome those barriers when someone can come to
our position, to our perspective, and see what
they look like. And then say, hey. I
know that's a struggle for you. What can
(17:44):
I do to help you? How can I
help? Right? From a place of empathy, not
from a place of judgment or to get
anything out of it. Yeah. Is there any
other examples as far as, like, servant leadership
that we should consider as as church leaders,
either, you know, principles or parts of your
story?
So the different principles is 10 characteristics
that we can develop to be more
(18:06):
servant leading. It's listening, awareness,
foresight, persuasion,
and then, stewardship,
trying to help with the growth of people,
empathy,
healing, and then conceptualization,
and then establishing
a beloved community.
And it all begins with a place of
love. Right? I think, we understand
that we love
(18:27):
all children of God and then understand that
there's no difference when that message is the
same. For me, you know, like, if I'm
looking at certain leadership, I look at historical
leaders. Many of the things that really resonated
with me is
doctor King or, Frederick Douglass, Booker t Washington,
some of the historical servant leaders. They had
the same message as some of our church
(18:48):
leaders, our prophets and apostles. And it was
the same message of love, right, and to
not just be a leader from
a title, from a dictatorship, but leading in
a way where we follow the teachings of
Christ.
And we lead
as Christ did, not from a place of
authority, but from a place of action and
a place of
(19:08):
love. Yeah. I love that. And, you know,
there's so many opportunities. Some of those characters,
there were so many opportunities for them to
go to war, right, and to fight back
or, you know, push back. But in reality,
they responded with love, and that really furthered
their mission
farther than any war or, you know, violence
could have done. Yep. And I, you know,
I talk about the prophet Joseph Smith and
his experience with Zion's camp in the book
(19:29):
as well. You know, they were being persecuted,
and they they were traveling. And they one
of the things that Joseph Smith did
is he ministered to those who were in
pain or who were injured along the trip.
Right? So instead of trying to tell people
what to do
or focusing on the trials that they were
facing, he chose to serve. And that's where
that whole concept is. You know, the account
(19:51):
says that they had learned to lead in
the Lord's way when he was ministering to
them, offering them precept blessings,
helping them not be,
kinda add, you know,
oppositional towards one another when things got hard
because they, face a lot of adversity.
And so for them him to focus on
those Christ like characteristics
to lead in a way where he was
(20:12):
ministering,
grabbing anyone who who was willing to follow
and to lead them on the covenant path
was pretty cool. Yeah. You mentioned those 10
principles as far as, like, servant leadership. Do
you go over each one of those in
in the book?
Yes. I go over it and I kind
of interweave it with the life experience.
So I kind of jump around with my
(20:32):
life story, and I apply different things that
I, encountered growing up or some of the
experiences that I had to each characteristic.
Awesome. And are there or a handful, two
or three that you'd wanna focus on just
to give us a taste of, you know,
in a church leadership context? I would say
stewardship,
the beloved community,
(20:53):
and,
empathy.
Love it. Where would we start with stewardship?
Stewardship is, you know, we have,
talent, and then we have people within our
ward or our stakes that we are stewards
over. And so, you know, making sure that
we grow our talent in a certain way.
I was at a leadership,
or a or a priesthood,
(21:14):
meeting yesterday.
You know, some people, maybe they invite more
people to church or they may hand out
the book of Mormon. And then maybe me,
I write a book or, you know, some
people are really good at speaking.
And you're, you know, blessed with these opportunities
based off the talents that you have to
share a message. And it doesn't matter if
it's a prominent position where you make a
(21:35):
lot of money or if it's a humble
position,
just being able to utilize your talents and
growing them. Kinda like me being on this
podcast or me continuing to write, what can
I do with my talents to
develop them in a way where I can
share a message or share Christ's message?
So for me, it could be that or,
you know, if we're over a ward or
a stake, how we cultivate in the talents
(21:57):
within our the different offices, whether it be
the youth or the relief society,
within the presale, how can we cultivate
those individuals
that we stew over? Yeah. And I love
that because you could have written all sorts
of leadership books, especially in your journey with
graduate work and leadership, but you wrote a
book for the church or for Latter day
Saints. Right? And that's not that, you know,
(22:18):
you can write all sorts of books in
the future as well, but it's a great
way to give back and to recognize your
stewardship. Yeah. In my book, I share a
message from my,
Ruth's
grandfather where he was, from the island of
Samoa,
Western Samoa, and he was a stake president.
And he would, travel from, stake award award
when he gave his, speeches,
(22:40):
you know, because, he would have to talk
at different awards.
And so what he would do is he
would walk to each village to give a
talk. And before he would leave or before
he would, give his presentation or his talk,
he would meticulously
fold his clothes and put them into
his bag so that they wouldn't get, you
know, overly sweaty. Right? And then being able
(23:00):
to travel to each village and share a
message
and then teaching that to
to his children. Or he had a a
store where he would invite some of the
youth
from the surrounding villages,
invite them to his home, treat them as
if they were his children. So for me,
that was like a good, example of stewardship
(23:20):
where you're really taking into account your calling.
Right? Or, you know, the responsibility to go
teach or speak where, you know, he took
the time to walk to each village at
that time and to really want to represent
the lord in a certain way. And then
also inviting everyone in his, you know, in
the surrounding villages who may need food or
(23:41):
needed a place to stay into his home.
Yeah. Love that. Anything else with, stewardship that
needs to be mentioned? I think just continue
to understand the gifts that we have and
not to bury them in the ground, but
to continue to cultivate them in a way
that brings, light to someone else. Yep. So
So tell me about beloved community.
If you were to think about Zion, that's
(24:01):
the beloved community. Right? Like, if we were
to look at it from a church context
where everyone is invited, where there's a sense
of belonging, where
you want everyone to be part of the
of this community,
and we accept all people as they are.
We accept differences.
We acknowledge that they go through struggles, but
then we help them overcome their struggles by
(24:23):
inviting them into our community, where we strive
to make them feel welcome. So if we
were to invite someone into, you know, the
ward or, you know, to invite them into
our home, making sure that that there's a
sense of belonging. And we only can do
that when we know that, when we acknowledge
that we're all children of God and, we
wanna establish
Zion here on Earth by being peacemakers.
(24:44):
Right? And so we don't, you know, you
don't look at people just because of their,
different affiliations. Maybe they may remember the church,
maybe they're not, but you still make them
feel welcome.
Yeah. I love that. Just the community part
that we're not so much a church as
we are a community or or a Zion
community. Yeah. I agree. Hopefully, everybody feels that
as they engage with with the church. Yeah.
(25:05):
When I first began going to church, I
didn't have all the church clothes and stuff.
I had met Ruth in, so I didn't
have a a suitor, you know, or anything
like that. But when I would go, I
would have just a t shirt on. It
was my best dressed at the time. You
know? So Yeah. But, you know, for me
to go into a place and feel welcome
is, really important. Right? And so it helped
(25:25):
me keep going
to church. Right? Or even for Ruth, she
would,
tie
a tie for me because I didn't know
how to tie a tie. So she would
tie it around her neck and then give
it to me. Right? So it kinda making
me feel like, I belong when I did
get the get the opportunity to have that
tie or the shirt that I needed to,
you know, feel more comfortable in church.
(25:47):
Yeah. Love that. Alright. Tell me about empathy.
Empathy. That's one of my favorites because you
want to understand people's perspective.
I share my book about when I was
in LA Southwest, I had met a young
man. He was in one of my math
classes and he was, from the local Crip
game. And he had came in there, he
was all beat up, and, you know, he
(26:09):
had so much potential because he actually knew
all the answers to a lot of the
questions, but because he had certain barriers,
but he didn't obviously make it as far
as I did. But when you kinda take
a step back and put yourself in the
shoes of others, you know, you begin to
understand their story. Instead of judging,
you know, maybe you can take the time
to walk in their shoes. Right?
(26:30):
Walk in his blue Chuck Taylor, so to
speak. And if you were to walk in
his blue Chuck Taylors and understand some of
the barriers that he encountered, would you still
judge him the same way?
What would be the answers to some of
the problems that he had? Like, what would
be your choice if you had that kind
of scenario?
You know, like, if we're in leadership positions,
(26:50):
whether it's in the church or outside of
the church, having the empathy to
understand someone's struggles and look at it from
a perspective
of what are they going through and how
can I help them?
How can I feel that same emotion that
they feel? Similar to Jesus Christ. Right? He
helped the least of these throughout his ministry.
(27:10):
He would meet them where they're at, and
he would offer a place of, he would
always,
be empathetic
towards the one. Right?
Yeah. And definitely in this effort as we
reach out to minority communities or minority you
know, the atypical person in our community,
we're gonna need a lot of empathy because
most likely we won't relate specifically to their
(27:30):
story. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the only
way we can relate to someone's story is
through empathy. It's kinda like the adulteress woman.
Everyone
was,
judging her. And then Christ came, and he
came from a place of empathy. And he
placed a crown on her, on her head
before she knew it was, on top of
it and allowed her to grow into it,
right, by showing her the empathy and the
(27:52):
forgiveness that she needed. And what if we
were to do the same? Like, despite someone's
past history or despite the struggle that they
endured,
what if we were to come from a
place of empathy and place a crown on
their head by the way we treat them,
by the way we lead and the way
that we interact with them? Then they would
eventually find the covenant path. You know, whether
it's now or in the future time, it's
(28:14):
important for us to just be able to
be empathetic. Right? I mean, and listen and
to
just help someone,
love someone, like, similar to how Christ did.
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, Ernest, any other
point principle concept that we need to make
sure we include?
No. I think,
diversity and, you know, sharing our testimonies. You
(28:35):
know, this book was a opportunity for me
to share my testimony that's obviously very unique,
but then different from your typical, you know,
church or a Latter day Saint book. And
so I hope that, you know, people take
the time to read it or take the
time to understand what it means to
lead as an action and not be a
leader, you know, as a noun. Right? Like,
trying to lead as a verb and, you
(28:57):
know, put people in positions for success
and then understanding what you can do to
be more like Jesus Christ. Love it. And
if people wanna check out the book, obviously,
Amazon is the place, but or any other
place you would send them if they wanna
learn about more about you, your work, or
the book?
Yeah. You can go to,
Amazon. It's just fine or Cedar Fort Publishing
(29:17):
and Media. You can also find the book
or Deseret Books.
Yeah. You can find it at any of
those locations.
Love it. Very good. So what's the next
book, Ernest?
I'm actually thinking about writing a book on
the ironic priesthood,
and then it's called tap in the Lord's
work. So tap in tap is, teaching ironic
priesthood principles.
So it's something I was kinda inspired to
(29:39):
do when I went to, Elimin and Camp
Moroni this past summer. So of a unique
opportunity.
Me and my boys were able to walk,
you know, Zion's Camp. So for me being
of African American descent, obviously, that's not, something
that's always been offered to us. So it
was a very unique opportunity
for us to walk, you know, for me
to do to do it for the first
(29:59):
time and to do with my sons was
pretty cool. And so I was really prompted,
you know, to write something like that for
them and to kinda share my testimony and
that whole experience.
I love that. I think that'll be a
great book, and we'll have to do another
conversation when it comes to that.
So really good. Well, definitely hopefully, people check
out the book. Again, it's Leading in the
Lord's Way, a Journey of Servant Leadership.
(30:22):
Last question I have for you, Ernest, is
as you reflect on your life and how
you've led, how has being a leader helped
you become a better follower of Jesus Christ?
Well, I look to Christ as my example
or I learned that leading is always continuously
evolving. Right? And for me to kind of
learn from my experiences
at the time when I was going through
everything that I went through, I would have
(30:43):
not thought it was to my at I
didn't think it was advantageous. Right? I didn't
think it was gonna be for my benefit.
But when I look back on it now,
I understand that it developed me in a
way where I can lead more effectively, where
I can lead with empathy, or I can
understand the perspective of someone who does not
have certain things.
And so for me, I think it's just
understanding that whatever we go through in life,
(31:04):
whether it be difficult
or somewhat with ease, I know, and I
think Eric can testify to it as well,
that it developed us to be better men
and which helped us be better leaders within
the home. And then we all looked at
our struggles that way, knowing that God was
preparing us for a great work, that he
was preparing us to lead in his way,
which is not from a organization,
(31:25):
it's not from place of authority.
It's from a place of humble position where
we learn from our experiences and take those
experiences to help out other people, to share
a message, and to help others
find the covenant path.
(31:45):
That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints
podcast. We'd love to hear from you about
your questions or thoughts or comments. You can
either leave a comment on the, post related
to this episode at leadingsaints.org,
or go to leadingsaints.org/contact
and send us your perspective or questions. If
there's other episodes or topics you'd like to
hear on the Leading Saints podcast, go to
leadingsaints.org/contact
(32:06):
and share with us the information there. And
we would love for you to share this
with any individual you think this would apply
to, especially maybe individuals in your ward council
or other leaders that you may know who
would really appreciate the perspectives that we discussed.
(32:29):
It came as a result of the position
of leadership which was imposed upon us
by the God of heaven who brought forth
a restoration
of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
When the declaration
was made concerning the only
true and living Church upon the face of
the earth,
(32:50):
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness, the loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.
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