July 21, 2024 • 35 mins
Claire Holt joins the show to talk about how she became a queer fashion influencer with 350k+ followers on TikTok. She also shares her own coming out story!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out aftertwenty years of marriage and I have three
kids. I'm Melissa and I havetwo kids, and I came out at
thirty seven after an eleven year marriage. This podcast is about coming out later
and the struggles and victories that comewith it when coming out feels like the
end of the world, but it'sreally just the beginning. This is the
(00:26):
Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the LesbianChronicles. Hello, Hello, how are
you. I'm good. I'm feelingpretty good lately. I know me too.
We kind of had a little depressingepisode no right, but I'm kind
(00:49):
of bouncing back. I'm trying tolike work out more, and we had
a good weekend, a good nighton Friday night together. I feel the
same way. Like I wouldn't say, I mean, I'm not back to
baseline, but I'm definitely seeing somegood Like I'm starting to feel far more
hopeful. Yeah. So, Ithink it's one of those things where it's
just like it really takes time yea, and like as much as it sucks
(01:12):
to sit through that time, God, because this Friday will be ninety days
since my official breakup. Okay,and it's like I think that's just like
the turning point. Man. Ohwow, Okay, so I got a
little time. I was watching Sexin the City last night and Charlotte says
that you have to you have togrieve half the time you were in the
(01:34):
relationship, and I mean it secksin the City. But I literally was
like, holy shit, I'm goingto be at this for like three years.
What I can't do this for threeyears? I know, right,
Like yeah, but I have hitthe fastboard button. I'm not healing.
I think that the more that Iunpack and like, the more that my
life is set up, I'm feelingbetter. Like with every part of the
(01:56):
house that feels more settled, Ifeel more settled. Yeah, for sure.
And then I had the great newsof the Indigo girls living in my
neighborhood. I'm talking, I'm talkingfour doors down, dude, this is
our inn. This is our inn. I mean I literally am like,
how did I not know this?That's incredible, right, I mean I'm
(02:19):
waiting for her to like show upwith muffins at the front door and be
like, welcome to the neighborhood.I literally am, I'm like, where
is she? Clearly I'm here.I'm so curious to see how this develops.
I know, I'm like one ofour next guests. Oh what's happening.
I literally I'm walking the dog twicea day right by. I'm like
jogging over there. I'm like,what do I have to do? What
(02:40):
do I have to do? Ifanyone knows her, please, I just
moved in I mean close vicinity there. I think if anyone's going to meet
her, it's going to be you. I'm gonna definitely try. But as
I've like asked the neighbors, They'relike, yeah, we don't see her
that often. I'm like, whattelling out doing concerts and stuff? They
still really do a lot of shows. Yeah, well they had two cars
(03:01):
in the driveway today, so okay, I'm kidding. I'm posting up hard.
Oh my god. And this remindsme of the time that I thought
that Paul Rudd moved in across thesame thing, and I bolted down the
driveway to like talk to this manas if I lived in my mother house.
And then I got closer and Iwas like, that's not Paul Rud's.
(03:23):
I know, watch it, watchit all be wrong, I know
right right. Anyway, Well,I'm excited about our guest today, mostly
because our guest is into fashion andyou're like, you're normally dressed and ready,
and today you're today, I willnot get dressed. And I'm like,
oh god, because I have takena lot of fashion tips from you.
(03:44):
That's very cool. Yeah, Iintroduced Claire. Yes, and Claire
Holds is joining us today. Ifyou are a lesbian on TikTok, I
assure you've seen her video. Shehas some really cool fashion tip tips and
shows her outfits and everything. AndClarie used to be based in Denver,
That's where I met you. Butyou said you just moved to San Diego.
Yep, just moved to San Diegoafter two years in Denver. And
(04:09):
yeah, fashion content on TikTok andInstagram, trying to be on YouTube too.
Thanks so much for having me.I'm really happy to be here.
Very cool. I'm dying to knowhow this even starts, Like tell me,
like what happens like your clearehole justnormal clerehole and then now you're a
fashion influencer, Like what happened?Yes, Yeah, it all started.
I started posting on TikTok in collegefrom my dorm room. Where was college?
(04:33):
I went to college at the Universityof Richmond. It's in Virginia.
Okay, yep, I was therebecause I played college basketball and there.
Oh wow, yeah how gay andyeah fine, I had I first got
started with fashion. At first,I was just posting all different types of
things. I had a breakup atone point in college that was like kind
(04:57):
of bad, and it got methinking like, ooh, I want to
do something. I need I needsomething to do. So it was kind
of like a hobby. And thenI started getting like some feedback from people.
I was sharing like my personal experiences. I was sharing fashion tips and
advice and stuff. Started to getthe feedback that people thought it was really
helpful. It was kind of likean underserved little corner of the Internet,
(05:20):
and so that was really motivating tome. So after that it just kind
of stuck and got some traction.And I also just loved doing it.
So that's kind of how it gotstarted. And then is the vibe the
same, Like is it like backthen you're kicking this thing off and you're
just like shopping or you're buying youknow whatever, like you like, And
then is it like morphed into somethingelse or is it like You're still the
(05:41):
same, the methodology is the same, you still shop at the same places.
You're still very much like how doesit look? Uh? It morphed,
yeah, but it was more ofa refining into something I was the
whole time. Okay, but Ishop at some of the same places.
Yeah, the actual content I makehas changed some. I used to do
(06:04):
styling videos where I'm I'm taking screenshotsof other people's outfits and explaining why about
them, and now sometimes I'm doingmore of styling myself with the clothes I
actually have. So it's morphed alittle bit and changed over the years just
because I get bored and like differentformats seem fun. But yeah, my
(06:27):
personal style started out kind of morelike I've grown up. I'm like in
the adult world and all of thatstuff. So I wanted to feel more
adult, and so it got alittle bit nicer, probably, and a
little bit more dressy for certain events. I used to be heavy on the
graphic T shirt vibe, and nowI have more range, So it's evolved
(06:50):
in a positive direction. But nowthe more I get into the fashion space,
the more I'm thinking about it andgetting ideas and like wanting to be
different instead of just wanting to looknice, which was kind of like my
original goal. That's interesting, likedo you go to thrift stores? Yeah,
yeah, yeah, oh big thrifter, thrift, vintage, secondhand,
(07:10):
Like, oh that's my that's mystuff. I feel like your generation really
embraces that they do that, likeour generation never did no, and it's
so impressive. Like that's one ofthe reasons why I really like your videos.
It's you are taking stuff that's likepeople will probably pass over at a
thrift store, but talk a littlebit about how you kind of like find
something because you do a lot ofthe crops shirts and stuff like that,
(07:33):
and now I'm seeing them like thosecrap shirts like all over like Abercrombie and
Hollister and American Eagle, like allthose people are now making the same kind
of shirts. Yeah, it's funnybecause that I made a video about crapping
a shirt and basically how to hamthe shirt without us without using a selling
machine, you can get like hemmingtape. It's called an iron the seam
(07:56):
so that it uh is not rawlike a raw hem That was like one
of my most viral videos. Thatwas something I'd been doing for a while,
but it was just like this vibeof I'm shopping in the men's section
and I don't know why, butevery single button down or like shirt you
get there is so long, likelong tourso and it was just like swallowing
me up and it wasn't looking right. So I started figuring out how crapping
(08:18):
helped, like the silhouette of howmy outfit looked. So that was the
beginning of it. And I've workedwith Abercrombie before. I've done several like
deals with them, and it's prettysoon after I started working with them,
they started releasing those crop shirts andI'm like, this coincidence, Yeah,
(08:41):
I don't know. I think ingeneral, people are liking more of like
an untucked button up look instead ofthe same really long ones. Even it's
not just women wearing Mints wear,but even men are buying and wearing those
kind of shirts just because it's it'sa little more flattering visually. It seems
like that's what's bigguring out. Butyeah, it started with that. And
(09:03):
the hard thing about thrifting is likebeing able to see something and envision it
on your body, right, especiallywhen it's in the mix of all of
these clothes that wouldn't look flattering right, So you kind of have to like
overtime like develop an eye for whatfalls right, what lays right, what
types of cuts, what types ofnecklines, like what looks good on your
(09:26):
body, and then you're able togo out in a pile of ugly shirts
you find the one shirt that actuallylooks right. So that's kind of like
what I've been trying to distill intosome of my videos. Like some of
the videos I'm talking more descriptively aboutthe cut and fit instead of just here's
product ABC. A lot of timespeople want the exact name of the product
(09:48):
because they want to buy the exactsee right, And it's impossible, right,
Like that's great and I've done thattoo, but really, like the
more powerful tool is like to beable to sh for yourself and find what
would work on you, to likeknow how to style yourself. So I'm
trying to like mix that into that'slike my new goal. Yeah, and
I guess different body types, it'sdifferent, Like it's like some people won't
(10:11):
be able to do the crop theway you would do the crop or Yeah,
so kind of learning what looks goodon you, yes, body type.
No, that's so important, especiallylike for me, like I wear
a lot of men's clothes, likeshopping in the men's section all the time.
There's so much like my body isdifferent than a man's body would be,
(10:31):
So people have hips, people havechest like we're different. So that's
huge. And even within like thequeer community of people who follow me,
like there's a huge diversity of bodysizes in that. So it's been interesting,
especially when I went from styling likefrom screenshots of other people's outfits to
myself, right, get on mybody, but everyone doesn't look like me.
(10:54):
No, So it's kind of likeyou start with the inspo and you
have to make little tweaks to accommodatefor like what your body's like, right,
and like learning the link, learningwhat where to cut the jeene so
that it's perfect and not. Thatmakes total sense to me. Yeah,
and I you know, I thinkyou're one of the reasons why I kind
of started to embrace more of likea little bit more of like a masculine
(11:18):
style, Like I kind of dolike a mix of like mask them and
like I used to be kind ofafraid to go and like buy some men's
shirt, but I also I shopin the little boys department all the time.
Now. Yeah, Like my daughterfull on judged me a couple of
weeks ago because I walked into OldNavy, went straight to the little boy's
department and put on like a buttondown and she's like, what are you
(11:39):
doing? And yeah, you seethis fits? It fits me, and
she was like shocked. But likeyou're saying, though, some of these
men's clothes and the boy's clothes arenot meant for women's bodies. And I've
noticed that with pants, like withbuying, like I bought some boys shorts
and I ended up going with thehusky size because it allowed my hips to
(12:01):
fit in the shorts. So itis kind of it's interesting the cuts and
like you're saying, like how theyare different. Yeah, yeah at a
certain level, like we're not shoppingby men's women's boys and we're just shopping
by the feet of the clothes,right, It's kind of how you look
at it after some time. Butyeah, it's interesting to realize there are
differences between different sections and how likefit I shop in the boys section?
(12:26):
Two sometimes are there mainstream stores thatyou would go to, Like my kids
don't go to any My twenty somethinggoes to no stores, like it's all
thrifting. She doesn't buy any Theonly thing she buys at the store is
underwear. The rest of it islike all from thrift stores. And I'm
always like, how do you compile? But she does have a wardrobe.
She sells her clothes even like afterthe fact, which is like, it's
(12:48):
just shocking to me. But it'slike, do you go to any normal
like a big box store or isit all thrift? No, it's not
all thrifts. Okay, it amix. But let's see some of my
favorites I love. I love Abercrombiemen's section recently and I heard Abercrombie.
I just heard this today on thenews. They're making like a comeback,
(13:11):
like they went away. Something hashappened and they're like back in it big
time. Yeah, because you know, Abercrombie used to be like like six
pack men, all the bags atthe mall when I was in high school.
That's what it is, everybody.Yeah, it was like Abercrombie plastered
on every sure and then it kindof went out of fashion. Then it
(13:31):
went away. Yeah, but Idon't know what they did. I don't
know if they hired a new CEOor they did hire Okay, did they
hire a new CEO? I thinkthey did okay because they did a whole
rebrand. Yeah, if you goon their website now, it doesn't even
look anything like even their stores inperson, Like you know how they used
to be like really dark and theysmelled like heavy clowne. Yeah, they
(13:54):
don't do that anymore. Well,like it's been airy, like they changed
a lot, and they do.They do pride campaigns now they have like
more sized diversity with their model,so they had a big turnound. So
I love Abercron. We also workwith the team and they're they're really good
at like social media. And Ialso love Unique lows like we don't have
(14:20):
one. Actually I just heard we'regetting one in San Diego, so I'm
really excited. But I love shoppingat Unique. Love for like basics like
T shirts, like slack, likedress pants, cargo pants, button downs.
Uh, and then I go toZara sometimes. No, honestly,
someone you said old Navy before OldNavy is not bad either. But yeah,
(14:43):
those are my top three probably ABERCROMIin terms of like big box.
Uh, I've seen in New York. It's right near where she lives.
I'll have to tell her that ifit's good enough for Claire, Hole,
that's good enough for you. Goin there and check it out, because
it's huge. It's if you can'tjust yeah, one in New York is
huge. I just wi it's agiant and that's what. That's the one.
(15:05):
It's right by her apartment, it'sright there. I'm like, why
don't you go in here? It'smassive. Go get a white T shirt.
Yeah, I'm am upstairs. Ilove But what's she says though,
Like when she comes home to Atlanta. Atlanta has like real, like old
school thrift where it's like you're reallygoing through some stuff to get to the
good stuff. In New York thethrifting is like pretty upscale. So I
(15:28):
feel like when she comes home,she'll be like, oh my god,
Jackpot, Like it's like a trashback full of stuff versus New York.
It's not like super cheap picked over. It's like probably, yeah, Well,
in New York it's like refined.I guess that's the only word I
could say. You know, Ihave a friend that goes to a lot
of the state sales right, okay, Yeah, and she is always finding
(15:48):
like vintage like mainly like Atlanta Olympicsgear. Okay, and like I've noticed
that aberfilm is selling like Atlanta Olympicsnineteen ninety. Oh that's really cool.
Actually, now, well you haveto now be in San Diego kind of
start over to find your spots.Yeah, that's got to be a little
(16:11):
hard. I don't even know,like I don't even know where to begin.
So yeah, just kind of gettingup the different places and then some
people give me recommendations, but somepeople don't know what they're talking about.
So I just got to get outthere and get to trying all the stuff.
I hope it's a good drift scene, but I'm not sure. There's
a lot of like surfer beach vibeshere which is kind of like a different
(16:32):
aesthetic than how it was in Denver, so I might. I don't know.
It's interesting because like that was onething I noticed in Denver, like
because I've been to Colorado a milliontimes, and I usually just I don't
really hang out in Denver that muchand just go out to like go skiing
or something. But we were alllike in Atlanta, like for the pride
events and stuff, you get dressedup, and the parties that we went
(16:53):
to were like, everybody's just kindof like chill, like they just went
hiking today. It's just hiking.They probably did, yeah, but I'm
I'm kind of wondering, like you'resaying, like, what the vibe is
going to be like in San Diegoif it's gonna be kind of the same
chill, laid back thing. Yeah, Colorado and Denver's like notoriously casual like
(17:17):
concerts you're wearing flip flops, you'rewearing beanies, like no matter the occasion.
So yeah, which is nice dependingon what you like. But I
like dressing up, So I know, I kind of miss having a bigger
fashion scene. But it seems likeSan Diego is a little bit cooler,
like more hipster. It's a biggercity, there's a lot of Yeah,
(17:37):
there's a lot of cool, fashionablepeople here, but it's still laid back,
like it's a beach town. Soit is such a cool spot.
One of my best friends from college, she's lived out there for a few
years now, and well, Iguess technically she lives in La Joya,
but it's just such a cool vibethere, like so fun. Just it's
like a vacation every day all thetime. Are you a beach person?
(17:59):
Like are you then? Will youutilize that? I already bought a surfboard
marketplace, like I got a wetsuit. Amazing. It was crazy because
I got the surfboard and the girlwas like, oh, I'm leaving San
Diego who I bought it from.And I was like, where are you
moving to? And she said,Denver, I moved here two days ago
from their Wow, you just swapyeah, exactly. That's hilarious. Claire.
(18:23):
Would you mind sharing, like youryour kind of story. You're coming
out stories to a podcast where peoplecoming out later. You didn't technically come
out later, but you know,yeah, no for sure. So my
coming out story started. I'm fromBirmingham, Alabama, so I we're in
deep South, So yeah, itwasn't the easiest place to come out,
(18:45):
and it was. It was difficult. A lot of like religious influence and
stuff in the South and my familyand so I came out to my inner
circle when I was in high school. So this was like my parents,
my brother, like my couple ofmy best friends, and I was kind
(19:10):
of private and unofficial. Some ofit was accidental, like I kind of
had this girl that had a crushon I was kind of seeing her.
It was kind of becoming clear tolike my parents that we were hanging out
all the time, like more thanfriends type energy. So yeah, long
story short, I came out tothose people during high school privately, but
(19:33):
to the to most people, theywouldn't happen to known any different. But
when I went to college, Imoved ten hours away to Richmond, and
that was where I was like,I really want to I want this to
be gay. I want to comeout like officially publicly to everyone all the
time. And it was nice becauseeveryone I was meeting in Richmond, I
(19:57):
was meeting for the first time,so I did to be whoever you want.
Yeah, so I was like ifI and I was. I remember
I came out to I told youI played basketball. I came out to
my teammates. She asked me,and I always give her credit for this
because it made me feel so safe. She said like, oh, like,
do you have a boyfriend or girlfriend? And I was like, oh
(20:19):
my god. And at the timeI did have a girlfriend, so I
was like, yeah, I dohave a girlfriend. And I was so
chill about it, Yeah, becauseit was you no idea that that was
my first time, Like public wasawesome. Yeah, that gives me the
chills, Like it was just easy. Yeah, So I give credit a
lot of credit to her, AndI had a few teammates there who were
out and made me feel really supported. What about your mom and dad?
(20:41):
Yeah, my parents they were likeslow, a little slow to come around,
but never like overtly uh harsh,but kind of in subtle ways.
And when I look back on itnow, I kind of understand that they're
trying to figure it out too.Sure they didn't have I mean, I'm
(21:03):
telling you, I grew up withno queer people in my life. They
grew up without knowing any queer people, like and the people they didn't know
were not that close to them andkind of far off, and they didn't
have like close relationships to those kindof people. I remember I had like
a basketball coach in middle school whowas like so obviously a lesbian, and
she never addressed that she had kids, she had a wife, and like
(21:29):
never was never brought it up ornever mentioned that the wife never came around.
So I don't know, I kindof got this vibe of like better
keep it, keep it under wraps. Yeah, like this is people like
be quiet like no, right,yeah, so I kind of got to
this point of like I can't fightthis anymore, as as like much as
I really was like I do notwant to like no one is like I'm
(21:52):
dying to be a lesbian. Yeahright right? Like what so I was,
Yeah, I kind of had agirl I was kind of seeing at
this time, and I was likeI cannot avoid this, Like this is
driving me crazy, Like I'm atthis point I'm being mean to her,
like I'm laughing out at other people, Like I got to get this under
control. So it was kind ofjust like this boiling over right, And
(22:15):
like I remember I told my dad. He was like, I was asking
if I go see this girl.He was like no, like you need
to stay home, do homework whatever. And I was like, you just
don't want me to see her becauseyou know we're together. Oh wow,
isn't that crazy? Yes, Okay, so what did he say back to
that? Oh? It was.It was the worst part is is that
I did that over text. Ohoh my god. So then you got
(22:38):
to wait for the reaction. Ican't. And then he just goes like
this is probably a conversation to havein person, and I was like right,
And I remember I was out,like driving home from school or something,
and I just like drove around thecity for like two more hours,
like buy some time where what aboutyour about your mom? And then also
(23:00):
do you have siblings that were chimingin? Yeah, my brother is funny,
so uh but my brother was like, oh, I knew the whole
time. He low key like thegirl I was seeing was kind of like
my best friend, but she wasat my house a lot, and he
was kind of he kind of gota crush on her. Oh jeez,
okay. It was like a lovetriangle. I'm like no, you like,
(23:22):
I'm like, no, you don'tget it, Like you can't.
I'm already in this back off likeI can't tell you why, but like
she does not like you. Shelike yeah. So eventually when I came
out to him, he was justlaughed and he thought it was funny and
he was like, well, thatmakes all of that makes sense, Like
(23:44):
duh, that's really funny. Yeah, and my mom and my mom are
really close, so we had itwas kind of a slow, warm up
for her, but I knew thatultimately it would be okay, Like she
is like kind of progressive mind didn'tstuff. But I just have never seen
her have to react to a situationlike that, Like I I assumed it
(24:07):
would be okay. Are they fromAlabama? Yes, okay, so this
is their whole upbringing? Yeah,life and like the only one who have
left this day day my brother stillwants it. So yeah, it was
just like a culture It was alot of culture cultural thing, right,
and then there was the sad partabout it, which I'm sure you guys
like I've heard other people talk aboutthis or have dealt with this too.
(24:30):
Is like I was doing a lotof like lying like about where I was,
who I was saying, who Iwas texting, like what they were
to me, Like so that mademe feel like guilty, more guilty,
shamed. Yeah. So not onlywas I gay, So that's bad enough,
but now I'm a liar. Yeah, and you later and I'm like
(24:51):
hiding purposefully from people close to me, like that made it worse. Yeah,
it just creates walls. That's reallyinteresting because you have mentioned how you
were kind of like angry, likeeasy to they set off and I'm like,
god, like that it just causessuch a trickle down, does when
you're keeping something like that inside,Like, oh, yeah, that's for
(25:12):
sure true. I think they musthave done though, even I mean,
I don't know how old your parentsare, but I'm assuming what forties,
early fifties, mid fifties. Theythey obviously did a great job. I
mean you left, you felt enoughconfidence to go ten hours away to college
(25:33):
and do your thing and tell peopleyou're gay, Like I give them credit,
like they they they met, Youmet them where they were and they
came around, Like I don't knowthat we can ask for more than that.
Yeah, no, when I it'sso crazy because now I have some
perspective, yeah, out of that. At the time though, I was
(25:55):
like so pissed. I wait toleave out, yeah, out if you're
as far as I can, Likeyou're like, you went ten hours away
and I would have went twenty likeI was, yeah, yeah, and
not even teen inks combined with likeI camping myself here, I need to
go somewhere that's more queer friendly.Like all of that was like added together,
and I was in it, andI thought, once I get out
(26:18):
of here, it'll feel much betterand I wasn't wrong, like it better
yeah, and like I could handleit, and like it did make me
happier and I was and I didn'tI didn't miss it at the time.
But yeah, it's funny how Iwas like, Oh, my parents are
holding me back. They're so strict, Like this town sucks, like I
can live anywhere else. But nowwhen I think back on it, I'm
(26:41):
like that experience like shaped me intobeing like so out and proud, like
yeah, it's starting on social mediaand like with wanting to be representation,
like for the people following me,like it like lit a fire because it
it like touched something deep on me. Like to me, it feels like
so satisfying and like healing too,Like I'll post online all day. I
(27:03):
don't care, Like you could saysomething mean and I don't care because I've
gotten so many like DMS comments frompeople being like you know what, I
haven't seen someone like doing this,Like you're living life. I want to
live, Like let me know it'sokay. Like you helped to guide me
to find my style, Like youhelped me want to have the confidence to
cut my hair short. Like allof those things are like ooh, like
(27:27):
no bullying can hold me back anye, yeah, it build me into
into this, to being strong s. But at the time I was like,
bro, like this I got theworst bird like that is a tough,
tough place, not gonna lie.I'm like, here, we are
complaining about living in Atlanta, andI grew up in Atlanta, and I'm
(27:49):
like, I at least had somesort of queer representation in my life.
But it was very like hush hush, But I can't imagine what Birmingham was
like been even in current times.Yeah, you know, it's definitely a
step I think behind Atlanta for sure. Maybe a few steps absolutely, yeah,
but a great city. Like Idon't hate Birmingham, no shade,
(28:11):
Like it's beautiful there. I havefriends that live in a neighborhood. I
think it's called Mountain Brook. Yes, it's really beautiful, the hills,
Like I get it, like it'sa it's not a There are places that
are terrible in Alabama. Birmingham's notone of those places. It's a great
city. Yeah. People think it'slike farmland when I say Alabama, and
I'm like, no, no,no, there's no let me say there's
(28:33):
an up and coming underground gay scenein Birmingham. I believe it the I
got the vibe from that. WhenI visit home, I'm seeing more gay
people. I'm seeing it's just likehaving a renaissance, Like the downtown is
like kind of growing and expanding.And so if you go home, do
you feel good or do you regress? Like sometimes when I go back home,
I feel this sense of like I'mnot I don't know. I don't
(28:56):
want to say I'm not happy,but I get a little bit like back
in my hometown, do you haveany of that? Yeah, yeah,
okay, like it just kind ofcomes over you. Yeah, I mean
because the culture shock of like Ifeel completely comfortable like here, like in
Denver, I got the short hair, I'm dressed in men's clothing, like
(29:18):
people will accidentally call me sir sometimes, like I don't know, like that
just that's okay. I'm like totallyI feel totally safe, and there's other
gay people, like I'm not theonly gay person around, so I feel
totally chill. And then I justremember how different it is other places,
like when I go home, butat the same time, I haven't experienced
(29:41):
people being me and people like ignoringme. So I'm like, you know
how much of this People are nicewhen you give them a chance. That's
so true, Melissa. We justtalked about that. Melissa and I were
in Alabama together not that long ago, and Melissa was talking about going into
a gas station and getting like feelingnervous, and I'm was telling her that,
like, when you give people achance, they're they really are.
(30:04):
They're nice. Yeah yeah, yeah, but I think it's like it's there
to your point, like they Ithink they just aren't used to it,
but they're not. They're curious,which to me, I I I like
that about people, Like I wantyou to be curious about me, Be
(30:25):
curious about my partner, be curiousof what we're showing up here together with
the kids doing. Yeah, becurious, but kind, kind and curious.
And that's what I've experienced in Alabamaand Atlanta. But I know that's
not always the case. M hm. So anyway, but I think that's
really cool. Thank you for comingon. This has been great. Yeah,
(30:45):
yeah, no, I'm having somuch fun, Like, yeah,
thanks for having me. Yeah.So are you are you single in San
Diego or did you go out therewith a woman in mind? A funny
story. I have a girlfriend andwe met in Okay. We both were
living in Denver, and she hadplans to move to La Okay, and
(31:07):
I was like, oh, that'scrazy because I had plans to move to
San Diego. Like, you know, I don't know if this will work
out. I don't know. Yewho's got a budget on their city?
She tried to move to La,was visiting neighborhoods there, didn't like this
one, didn't like this one,didn't like this one. I don't she
realized I don't like La. I'mlike, oh my god, Like if
(31:29):
only there was another city that waslike yearby but like more chill, Like
yeah, huh, let me think. And the mutual friend that introduced us
moved to San Diego, so weboth had kind of had some connections.
And anyway, long story story,she lives in San Diego now. She
moved here like two or three monthsbefore I did, and now we're both
(31:53):
now we're both in San Diego together. But I think, yeah, it's
also like no pressure on you.Melissa and I also were talking about that
earlier today, like when a lotof times lesbians will relow for somebody and
it's like it feels like it's pressure. It's just even if it's like unspoken
and it's like she had her ownplan, You had your own plan and
the star stars aligned. Yeah,we get U haul lesbian accusations all the
(32:17):
time, but you don't live together. We don't live together. Okay,
that's very smart. Yeah, lookat you, I know. Yeah,
yeah, Claire, and she wasthat's amazing. But she was already there.
She beat you there. Yeah,she's been here for a while.
Okay, So even though you hadthe plan to move there, if anything,
(32:38):
you're the one who's looking like youreload for her, which is kind
of the shitty position to be in. You got to set the story straight.
Let's get it out right now.Claire was already going, guys,
Claire was already going yeah, no, I try to tell people. But
I'm sure though too. It's likeyou probably knew a little bit if you're
familiar with La, Like she's gonnago to l A. I am realized,
(33:00):
like it's not all it's cracked upto be, Like San Diego is
a million times better vibe for sure. Oh yeah, and I was.
I was telling her that at thetime. She's like visiting La. I'm
like, I'm like writing her apro con list for San Diego, Like
I have my influence. I wasworking, I was working what I could.
(33:22):
Well, where all can we findyou? Clear? Yeah, you're
on TikTok, but it sounds you'realso on Instagram and YouTube yep, across
all the platforms. It's at ClaireUnderscore Hold twelve. That's TikTok Instagram,
that's my YouTube handle. I alsohave a Pinterest account that has all of
these mood boards. Oh sweet,Oh okay, I never pluged that,
(33:45):
but yeah, it's it's a goodresource for people looking for alpha insbo I
have like different occasions on there.It's also Claire Underscore Hold twelve. Okay
Claire and Claire's with an e yesc l A. I are e underscore
h O L T twelve amazing.That's specially my user name since before I
(34:06):
was on social media, so Iassume twelve is the B ball number.
Yeah, yeah, you nice,very cool. Yeah, well, Claire,
this is amazing. Yeah, Iappreciate you coming on. It was
it was awesome to meet you.You're so sweet, So for sure,
keep doing what you're doing. Welove it. Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me. Itwas really nice meeting you, and you
guys are doing really important work,so it's really nice to see. Thank
(34:30):
you all right you Claire, Takecare, guys. I want to support
the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate usand write a review on Apple podcast or
Spotify. We love listener feedback.If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali atgmail dot com. That's Melissa M.
(34:53):
E. L I s A andAli A L l I at gmail dot
com. Or follow us on Instagramat Lesbian Chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out aftertwenty years of marriage and I have three
kids. I'm Melissa and I havetwo kids, and I came out at
thirty seven after an eleven year marriage. This podcast is about coming out later
and the struggles and victories that comewith it when coming out feels like the
end of the world, but it'sreally just the beginning. This is the
(00:26):
Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the LesbianChronicles. Hello, Hello, how are
you. I'm good. I'm feelingpretty good lately. I know me too.
We kind of had a little depressingepisode no right, but I'm kind
(00:49):
of bouncing back. I'm trying tolike work out more, and we had
a good weekend, a good nighton Friday night together. I feel the
same way. Like I wouldn't say, I mean, I'm not back to
baseline, but I'm definitely seeing somegood Like I'm starting to feel far more
hopeful. Yeah. So, Ithink it's one of those things where it's
just like it really takes time yea, and like as much as it sucks
(01:12):
to sit through that time, God, because this Friday will be ninety days
since my official breakup. Okay,and it's like I think that's just like
the turning point. Man. Ohwow, Okay, so I got a
little time. I was watching Sexin the City last night and Charlotte says
that you have to you have togrieve half the time you were in the
(01:34):
relationship, and I mean it secksin the City. But I literally was
like, holy shit, I'm goingto be at this for like three years.
What I can't do this for threeyears? I know, right,
Like yeah, but I have hitthe fastboard button. I'm not healing.
I think that the more that Iunpack and like, the more that my
life is set up, I'm feelingbetter. Like with every part of the
(01:56):
house that feels more settled, Ifeel more settled. Yeah, for sure.
And then I had the great newsof the Indigo girls living in my
neighborhood. I'm talking, I'm talkingfour doors down, dude, this is
our inn. This is our inn. I mean I literally am like,
how did I not know this?That's incredible, right, I mean I'm
(02:19):
waiting for her to like show upwith muffins at the front door and be
like, welcome to the neighborhood.I literally am, I'm like, where
is she? Clearly I'm here.I'm so curious to see how this develops.
I know, I'm like one ofour next guests. Oh what's happening.
I literally I'm walking the dog twicea day right by. I'm like
jogging over there. I'm like,what do I have to do? What
(02:40):
do I have to do? Ifanyone knows her, please, I just
moved in I mean close vicinity there. I think if anyone's going to meet
her, it's going to be you. I'm gonna definitely try. But as
I've like asked the neighbors, They'relike, yeah, we don't see her
that often. I'm like, whattelling out doing concerts and stuff? They
still really do a lot of shows. Yeah, well they had two cars
(03:01):
in the driveway today, so okay, I'm kidding. I'm posting up hard.
Oh my god. And this remindsme of the time that I thought
that Paul Rudd moved in across thesame thing, and I bolted down the
driveway to like talk to this manas if I lived in my mother house.
And then I got closer and Iwas like, that's not Paul Rud's.
(03:23):
I know, watch it, watchit all be wrong, I know
right right. Anyway, Well,I'm excited about our guest today, mostly
because our guest is into fashion andyou're like, you're normally dressed and ready,
and today you're today, I willnot get dressed. And I'm like,
oh god, because I have takena lot of fashion tips from you.
(03:44):
That's very cool. Yeah, Iintroduced Claire. Yes, and Claire
Holds is joining us today. Ifyou are a lesbian on TikTok, I
assure you've seen her video. Shehas some really cool fashion tip tips and
shows her outfits and everything. AndClarie used to be based in Denver,
That's where I met you. Butyou said you just moved to San Diego.
Yep, just moved to San Diegoafter two years in Denver. And
(04:09):
yeah, fashion content on TikTok andInstagram, trying to be on YouTube too.
Thanks so much for having me.I'm really happy to be here.
Very cool. I'm dying to knowhow this even starts, Like tell me,
like what happens like your clearehole justnormal clerehole and then now you're a
fashion influencer, Like what happened?Yes, Yeah, it all started.
I started posting on TikTok in collegefrom my dorm room. Where was college?
(04:33):
I went to college at the Universityof Richmond. It's in Virginia.
Okay, yep, I was therebecause I played college basketball and there.
Oh wow, yeah how gay andyeah fine, I had I first got
started with fashion. At first,I was just posting all different types of
things. I had a breakup atone point in college that was like kind
(04:57):
of bad, and it got methinking like, ooh, I want to
do something. I need I needsomething to do. So it was kind
of like a hobby. And thenI started getting like some feedback from people.
I was sharing like my personal experiences. I was sharing fashion tips and
advice and stuff. Started to getthe feedback that people thought it was really
helpful. It was kind of likean underserved little corner of the Internet,
(05:20):
and so that was really motivating tome. So after that it just kind
of stuck and got some traction.And I also just loved doing it.
So that's kind of how it gotstarted. And then is the vibe the
same, Like is it like backthen you're kicking this thing off and you're
just like shopping or you're buying youknow whatever, like you like, And
then is it like morphed into somethingelse or is it like You're still the
(05:41):
same, the methodology is the same, you still shop at the same places.
You're still very much like how doesit look? Uh? It morphed,
yeah, but it was more ofa refining into something I was the
whole time. Okay, but Ishop at some of the same places.
Yeah, the actual content I makehas changed some. I used to do
(06:04):
styling videos where I'm I'm taking screenshotsof other people's outfits and explaining why about
them, and now sometimes I'm doingmore of styling myself with the clothes I
actually have. So it's morphed alittle bit and changed over the years just
because I get bored and like differentformats seem fun. But yeah, my
(06:27):
personal style started out kind of morelike I've grown up. I'm like in
the adult world and all of thatstuff. So I wanted to feel more
adult, and so it got alittle bit nicer, probably, and a
little bit more dressy for certain events. I used to be heavy on the
graphic T shirt vibe, and nowI have more range, So it's evolved
(06:50):
in a positive direction. But nowthe more I get into the fashion space,
the more I'm thinking about it andgetting ideas and like wanting to be
different instead of just wanting to looknice, which was kind of like my
original goal. That's interesting, likedo you go to thrift stores? Yeah,
yeah, yeah, oh big thrifter, thrift, vintage, secondhand,
(07:10):
Like, oh that's my that's mystuff. I feel like your generation really
embraces that they do that, likeour generation never did no, and it's
so impressive. Like that's one ofthe reasons why I really like your videos.
It's you are taking stuff that's likepeople will probably pass over at a
thrift store, but talk a littlebit about how you kind of like find
something because you do a lot ofthe crops shirts and stuff like that,
(07:33):
and now I'm seeing them like thosecrap shirts like all over like Abercrombie and
Hollister and American Eagle, like allthose people are now making the same kind
of shirts. Yeah, it's funnybecause that I made a video about crapping
a shirt and basically how to hamthe shirt without us without using a selling
machine, you can get like hemmingtape. It's called an iron the seam
(07:56):
so that it uh is not rawlike a raw hem That was like one
of my most viral videos. Thatwas something I'd been doing for a while,
but it was just like this vibeof I'm shopping in the men's section
and I don't know why, butevery single button down or like shirt you
get there is so long, likelong tourso and it was just like swallowing
me up and it wasn't looking right. So I started figuring out how crapping
(08:18):
helped, like the silhouette of howmy outfit looked. So that was the
beginning of it. And I've workedwith Abercrombie before. I've done several like
deals with them, and it's prettysoon after I started working with them,
they started releasing those crop shirts andI'm like, this coincidence, Yeah,
(08:41):
I don't know. I think ingeneral, people are liking more of like
an untucked button up look instead ofthe same really long ones. Even it's
not just women wearing Mints wear,but even men are buying and wearing those
kind of shirts just because it's it'sa little more flattering visually. It seems
like that's what's bigguring out. Butyeah, it started with that. And
(09:03):
the hard thing about thrifting is likebeing able to see something and envision it
on your body, right, especiallywhen it's in the mix of all of
these clothes that wouldn't look flattering right, So you kind of have to like
overtime like develop an eye for whatfalls right, what lays right, what
types of cuts, what types ofnecklines, like what looks good on your
(09:26):
body, and then you're able togo out in a pile of ugly shirts
you find the one shirt that actuallylooks right. So that's kind of like
what I've been trying to distill intosome of my videos. Like some of
the videos I'm talking more descriptively aboutthe cut and fit instead of just here's
product ABC. A lot of timespeople want the exact name of the product
(09:48):
because they want to buy the exactsee right, And it's impossible, right,
Like that's great and I've done thattoo, but really, like the
more powerful tool is like to beable to sh for yourself and find what
would work on you, to likeknow how to style yourself. So I'm
trying to like mix that into that'slike my new goal. Yeah, and
I guess different body types, it'sdifferent, Like it's like some people won't
(10:11):
be able to do the crop theway you would do the crop or Yeah,
so kind of learning what looks goodon you, yes, body type.
No, that's so important, especiallylike for me, like I wear
a lot of men's clothes, likeshopping in the men's section all the time.
There's so much like my body isdifferent than a man's body would be,
(10:31):
So people have hips, people havechest like we're different. So that's
huge. And even within like thequeer community of people who follow me,
like there's a huge diversity of bodysizes in that. So it's been interesting,
especially when I went from styling likefrom screenshots of other people's outfits to
myself, right, get on mybody, but everyone doesn't look like me.
(10:54):
No, So it's kind of likeyou start with the inspo and you
have to make little tweaks to accommodatefor like what your body's like, right,
and like learning the link, learningwhat where to cut the jeene so
that it's perfect and not. Thatmakes total sense to me. Yeah,
and I you know, I thinkyou're one of the reasons why I kind
of started to embrace more of likea little bit more of like a masculine
(11:18):
style, Like I kind of dolike a mix of like mask them and
like I used to be kind ofafraid to go and like buy some men's
shirt, but I also I shopin the little boys department all the time.
Now. Yeah, Like my daughterfull on judged me a couple of
weeks ago because I walked into OldNavy, went straight to the little boy's
department and put on like a buttondown and she's like, what are you
(11:39):
doing? And yeah, you seethis fits? It fits me, and
she was like shocked. But likeyou're saying, though, some of these
men's clothes and the boy's clothes arenot meant for women's bodies. And I've
noticed that with pants, like withbuying, like I bought some boys shorts
and I ended up going with thehusky size because it allowed my hips to
(12:01):
fit in the shorts. So itis kind of it's interesting the cuts and
like you're saying, like how theyare different. Yeah, yeah at a
certain level, like we're not shoppingby men's women's boys and we're just shopping
by the feet of the clothes,right, It's kind of how you look
at it after some time. Butyeah, it's interesting to realize there are
differences between different sections and how likefit I shop in the boys section?
(12:26):
Two sometimes are there mainstream stores thatyou would go to, Like my kids
don't go to any My twenty somethinggoes to no stores, like it's all
thrifting. She doesn't buy any Theonly thing she buys at the store is
underwear. The rest of it islike all from thrift stores. And I'm
always like, how do you compile? But she does have a wardrobe.
She sells her clothes even like afterthe fact, which is like, it's
(12:48):
just shocking to me. But it'slike, do you go to any normal
like a big box store or isit all thrift? No, it's not
all thrifts. Okay, it amix. But let's see some of my
favorites I love. I love Abercrombiemen's section recently and I heard Abercrombie.
I just heard this today on thenews. They're making like a comeback,
(13:11):
like they went away. Something hashappened and they're like back in it big
time. Yeah, because you know, Abercrombie used to be like like six
pack men, all the bags atthe mall when I was in high school.
That's what it is, everybody.Yeah, it was like Abercrombie plastered
on every sure and then it kindof went out of fashion. Then it
(13:31):
went away. Yeah, but Idon't know what they did. I don't
know if they hired a new CEOor they did hire Okay, did they
hire a new CEO? I thinkthey did okay because they did a whole
rebrand. Yeah, if you goon their website now, it doesn't even
look anything like even their stores inperson, Like you know how they used
to be like really dark and theysmelled like heavy clowne. Yeah, they
(13:54):
don't do that anymore. Well,like it's been airy, like they changed
a lot, and they do.They do pride campaigns now they have like
more sized diversity with their model,so they had a big turnound. So
I love Abercron. We also workwith the team and they're they're really good
at like social media. And Ialso love Unique lows like we don't have
(14:20):
one. Actually I just heard we'regetting one in San Diego, so I'm
really excited. But I love shoppingat Unique. Love for like basics like
T shirts, like slack, likedress pants, cargo pants, button downs.
Uh, and then I go toZara sometimes. No, honestly,
someone you said old Navy before OldNavy is not bad either. But yeah,
(14:43):
those are my top three probably ABERCROMIin terms of like big box.
Uh, I've seen in New York. It's right near where she lives.
I'll have to tell her that ifit's good enough for Claire, Hole,
that's good enough for you. Goin there and check it out, because
it's huge. It's if you can'tjust yeah, one in New York is
huge. I just wi it's agiant and that's what. That's the one.
(15:05):
It's right by her apartment, it'sright there. I'm like, why
don't you go in here? It'smassive. Go get a white T shirt.
Yeah, I'm am upstairs. Ilove But what's she says though,
Like when she comes home to Atlanta. Atlanta has like real, like old
school thrift where it's like you're reallygoing through some stuff to get to the
good stuff. In New York thethrifting is like pretty upscale. So I
(15:28):
feel like when she comes home,she'll be like, oh my god,
Jackpot, Like it's like a trashback full of stuff versus New York.
It's not like super cheap picked over. It's like probably, yeah, Well,
in New York it's like refined.I guess that's the only word I
could say. You know, Ihave a friend that goes to a lot
of the state sales right, okay, Yeah, and she is always finding
(15:48):
like vintage like mainly like Atlanta Olympicsgear. Okay, and like I've noticed
that aberfilm is selling like Atlanta Olympicsnineteen ninety. Oh that's really cool.
Actually, now, well you haveto now be in San Diego kind of
start over to find your spots.Yeah, that's got to be a little
(16:11):
hard. I don't even know,like I don't even know where to begin.
So yeah, just kind of gettingup the different places and then some
people give me recommendations, but somepeople don't know what they're talking about.
So I just got to get outthere and get to trying all the stuff.
I hope it's a good drift scene, but I'm not sure. There's
a lot of like surfer beach vibeshere which is kind of like a different
(16:32):
aesthetic than how it was in Denver, so I might. I don't know.
It's interesting because like that was onething I noticed in Denver, like
because I've been to Colorado a milliontimes, and I usually just I don't
really hang out in Denver that muchand just go out to like go skiing
or something. But we were alllike in Atlanta, like for the pride
events and stuff, you get dressedup, and the parties that we went
(16:53):
to were like, everybody's just kindof like chill, like they just went
hiking today. It's just hiking.They probably did, yeah, but I'm
I'm kind of wondering, like you'resaying, like, what the vibe is
going to be like in San Diegoif it's gonna be kind of the same
chill, laid back thing. Yeah, Colorado and Denver's like notoriously casual like
(17:17):
concerts you're wearing flip flops, you'rewearing beanies, like no matter the occasion.
So yeah, which is nice dependingon what you like. But I
like dressing up, So I know, I kind of miss having a bigger
fashion scene. But it seems likeSan Diego is a little bit cooler,
like more hipster. It's a biggercity, there's a lot of Yeah,
(17:37):
there's a lot of cool, fashionablepeople here, but it's still laid back,
like it's a beach town. Soit is such a cool spot.
One of my best friends from college, she's lived out there for a few
years now, and well, Iguess technically she lives in La Joya,
but it's just such a cool vibethere, like so fun. Just it's
like a vacation every day all thetime. Are you a beach person?
(17:59):
Like are you then? Will youutilize that? I already bought a surfboard
marketplace, like I got a wetsuit. Amazing. It was crazy because
I got the surfboard and the girlwas like, oh, I'm leaving San
Diego who I bought it from.And I was like, where are you
moving to? And she said,Denver, I moved here two days ago
from their Wow, you just swapyeah, exactly. That's hilarious. Claire.
(18:23):
Would you mind sharing, like youryour kind of story. You're coming
out stories to a podcast where peoplecoming out later. You didn't technically come
out later, but you know,yeah, no for sure. So my
coming out story started. I'm fromBirmingham, Alabama, so I we're in
deep South, So yeah, itwasn't the easiest place to come out,
(18:45):
and it was. It was difficult. A lot of like religious influence and
stuff in the South and my familyand so I came out to my inner
circle when I was in high school. So this was like my parents,
my brother, like my couple ofmy best friends, and I was kind
(19:10):
of private and unofficial. Some ofit was accidental, like I kind of
had this girl that had a crushon I was kind of seeing her.
It was kind of becoming clear tolike my parents that we were hanging out
all the time, like more thanfriends type energy. So yeah, long
story short, I came out tothose people during high school privately, but
(19:33):
to the to most people, theywouldn't happen to known any different. But
when I went to college, Imoved ten hours away to Richmond, and
that was where I was like,I really want to I want this to
be gay. I want to comeout like officially publicly to everyone all the
time. And it was nice becauseeveryone I was meeting in Richmond, I
(19:57):
was meeting for the first time,so I did to be whoever you want.
Yeah, so I was like ifI and I was. I remember
I came out to I told youI played basketball. I came out to
my teammates. She asked me,and I always give her credit for this
because it made me feel so safe. She said like, oh, like,
do you have a boyfriend or girlfriend? And I was like, oh
(20:19):
my god. And at the timeI did have a girlfriend, so I
was like, yeah, I dohave a girlfriend. And I was so
chill about it, Yeah, becauseit was you no idea that that was
my first time, Like public wasawesome. Yeah, that gives me the
chills, Like it was just easy. Yeah, So I give credit a
lot of credit to her, AndI had a few teammates there who were
out and made me feel really supported. What about your mom and dad?
(20:41):
Yeah, my parents they were likeslow, a little slow to come around,
but never like overtly uh harsh,but kind of in subtle ways.
And when I look back on itnow, I kind of understand that they're
trying to figure it out too.Sure they didn't have I mean, I'm
(21:03):
telling you, I grew up withno queer people in my life. They
grew up without knowing any queer people, like and the people they didn't know
were not that close to them andkind of far off, and they didn't
have like close relationships to those kindof people. I remember I had like
a basketball coach in middle school whowas like so obviously a lesbian, and
she never addressed that she had kids, she had a wife, and like
(21:29):
never was never brought it up ornever mentioned that the wife never came around.
So I don't know, I kindof got this vibe of like better
keep it, keep it under wraps. Yeah, like this is people like
be quiet like no, right,yeah, so I kind of got to
this point of like I can't fightthis anymore, as as like much as
I really was like I do notwant to like no one is like I'm
(21:52):
dying to be a lesbian. Yeahright right? Like what so I was,
Yeah, I kind of had agirl I was kind of seeing at
this time, and I was likeI cannot avoid this, Like this is
driving me crazy, Like I'm atthis point I'm being mean to her,
like I'm laughing out at other people, Like I got to get this under
control. So it was kind ofjust like this boiling over right, And
(22:15):
like I remember I told my dad. He was like, I was asking
if I go see this girl.He was like no, like you need
to stay home, do homework whatever. And I was like, you just
don't want me to see her becauseyou know we're together. Oh wow,
isn't that crazy? Yes, Okay, so what did he say back to
that? Oh? It was.It was the worst part is is that
I did that over text. Ohoh my god. So then you got
(22:38):
to wait for the reaction. Ican't. And then he just goes like
this is probably a conversation to havein person, and I was like right,
And I remember I was out,like driving home from school or something,
and I just like drove around thecity for like two more hours,
like buy some time where what aboutyour about your mom? And then also
(23:00):
do you have siblings that were chimingin? Yeah, my brother is funny,
so uh but my brother was like, oh, I knew the whole
time. He low key like thegirl I was seeing was kind of like
my best friend, but she wasat my house a lot, and he
was kind of he kind of gota crush on her. Oh jeez,
okay. It was like a lovetriangle. I'm like no, you like,
(23:22):
I'm like, no, you don'tget it, Like you can't.
I'm already in this back off likeI can't tell you why, but like
she does not like you. Shelike yeah. So eventually when I came
out to him, he was justlaughed and he thought it was funny and
he was like, well, thatmakes all of that makes sense, Like
(23:44):
duh, that's really funny. Yeah, and my mom and my mom are
really close, so we had itwas kind of a slow, warm up
for her, but I knew thatultimately it would be okay, Like she
is like kind of progressive mind didn'tstuff. But I just have never seen
her have to react to a situationlike that, Like I I assumed it
(24:07):
would be okay. Are they fromAlabama? Yes, okay, so this
is their whole upbringing? Yeah,life and like the only one who have
left this day day my brother stillwants it. So yeah, it was
just like a culture It was alot of culture cultural thing, right,
and then there was the sad partabout it, which I'm sure you guys
like I've heard other people talk aboutthis or have dealt with this too.
(24:30):
Is like I was doing a lotof like lying like about where I was,
who I was saying, who Iwas texting, like what they were
to me, Like so that mademe feel like guilty, more guilty,
shamed. Yeah. So not onlywas I gay, So that's bad enough,
but now I'm a liar. Yeah, and you later and I'm like
(24:51):
hiding purposefully from people close to me, like that made it worse. Yeah,
it just creates walls. That's reallyinteresting because you have mentioned how you
were kind of like angry, likeeasy to they set off and I'm like,
god, like that it just causessuch a trickle down, does when
you're keeping something like that inside,Like, oh, yeah, that's for
(25:12):
sure true. I think they musthave done though, even I mean,
I don't know how old your parentsare, but I'm assuming what forties,
early fifties, mid fifties. Theythey obviously did a great job. I
mean you left, you felt enoughconfidence to go ten hours away to college
(25:33):
and do your thing and tell peopleyou're gay, Like I give them credit,
like they they they met, Youmet them where they were and they
came around, Like I don't knowthat we can ask for more than that.
Yeah, no, when I it'sso crazy because now I have some
perspective, yeah, out of that. At the time though, I was
(25:55):
like so pissed. I wait toleave out, yeah, out if you're
as far as I can, Likeyou're like, you went ten hours away
and I would have went twenty likeI was, yeah, yeah, and
not even teen inks combined with likeI camping myself here, I need to
go somewhere that's more queer friendly.Like all of that was like added together,
and I was in it, andI thought, once I get out
(26:18):
of here, it'll feel much betterand I wasn't wrong, like it better
yeah, and like I could handleit, and like it did make me
happier and I was and I didn'tI didn't miss it at the time.
But yeah, it's funny how Iwas like, Oh, my parents are
holding me back. They're so strict, Like this town sucks, like I
can live anywhere else. But nowwhen I think back on it, I'm
(26:41):
like that experience like shaped me intobeing like so out and proud, like
yeah, it's starting on social mediaand like with wanting to be representation,
like for the people following me,like it like lit a fire because it
it like touched something deep on me. Like to me, it feels like
so satisfying and like healing too,Like I'll post online all day. I
(27:03):
don't care, Like you could saysomething mean and I don't care because I've
gotten so many like DMS comments frompeople being like you know what, I
haven't seen someone like doing this,Like you're living life. I want to
live, Like let me know it'sokay. Like you helped to guide me
to find my style, Like youhelped me want to have the confidence to
cut my hair short. Like allof those things are like ooh, like
(27:27):
no bullying can hold me back anye, yeah, it build me into
into this, to being strong s. But at the time I was like,
bro, like this I got theworst bird like that is a tough,
tough place, not gonna lie.I'm like, here, we are
complaining about living in Atlanta, andI grew up in Atlanta, and I'm
(27:49):
like, I at least had somesort of queer representation in my life.
But it was very like hush hush, But I can't imagine what Birmingham was
like been even in current times.Yeah, you know, it's definitely a
step I think behind Atlanta for sure. Maybe a few steps absolutely, yeah,
but a great city. Like Idon't hate Birmingham, no shade,
(28:11):
Like it's beautiful there. I havefriends that live in a neighborhood. I
think it's called Mountain Brook. Yes, it's really beautiful, the hills,
Like I get it, like it'sa it's not a There are places that
are terrible in Alabama. Birmingham's notone of those places. It's a great
city. Yeah. People think it'slike farmland when I say Alabama, and
I'm like, no, no,no, there's no let me say there's
(28:33):
an up and coming underground gay scenein Birmingham. I believe it the I
got the vibe from that. WhenI visit home, I'm seeing more gay
people. I'm seeing it's just likehaving a renaissance, Like the downtown is
like kind of growing and expanding.And so if you go home, do
you feel good or do you regress? Like sometimes when I go back home,
I feel this sense of like I'mnot I don't know. I don't
(28:56):
want to say I'm not happy,but I get a little bit like back
in my hometown, do you haveany of that? Yeah, yeah,
okay, like it just kind ofcomes over you. Yeah, I mean
because the culture shock of like Ifeel completely comfortable like here, like in
Denver, I got the short hair, I'm dressed in men's clothing, like
(29:18):
people will accidentally call me sir sometimes, like I don't know, like that
just that's okay. I'm like totallyI feel totally safe, and there's other
gay people, like I'm not theonly gay person around, so I feel
totally chill. And then I justremember how different it is other places,
like when I go home, butat the same time, I haven't experienced
(29:41):
people being me and people like ignoringme. So I'm like, you know
how much of this People are nicewhen you give them a chance. That's
so true, Melissa. We justtalked about that. Melissa and I were
in Alabama together not that long ago, and Melissa was talking about going into
a gas station and getting like feelingnervous, and I'm was telling her that,
like, when you give people achance, they're they really are.
(30:04):
They're nice. Yeah yeah, yeah, but I think it's like it's there
to your point, like they Ithink they just aren't used to it,
but they're not. They're curious,which to me, I I I like
that about people, Like I wantyou to be curious about me, Be
(30:25):
curious about my partner, be curiousof what we're showing up here together with
the kids doing. Yeah, becurious, but kind, kind and curious.
And that's what I've experienced in Alabamaand Atlanta. But I know that's
not always the case. M hm. So anyway, but I think that's
really cool. Thank you for comingon. This has been great. Yeah,
(30:45):
yeah, no, I'm having somuch fun, Like, yeah,
thanks for having me. Yeah.So are you are you single in San
Diego or did you go out therewith a woman in mind? A funny
story. I have a girlfriend andwe met in Okay. We both were
living in Denver, and she hadplans to move to La Okay, and
(31:07):
I was like, oh, that'scrazy because I had plans to move to
San Diego. Like, you know, I don't know if this will work
out. I don't know. Yewho's got a budget on their city?
She tried to move to La,was visiting neighborhoods there, didn't like this
one, didn't like this one,didn't like this one. I don't she
realized I don't like La. I'mlike, oh my god, Like if
(31:29):
only there was another city that waslike yearby but like more chill, Like
yeah, huh, let me think. And the mutual friend that introduced us
moved to San Diego, so weboth had kind of had some connections.
And anyway, long story story,she lives in San Diego now. She
moved here like two or three monthsbefore I did, and now we're both
(31:53):
now we're both in San Diego together. But I think, yeah, it's
also like no pressure on you.Melissa and I also were talking about that
earlier today, like when a lotof times lesbians will relow for somebody and
it's like it feels like it's pressure. It's just even if it's like unspoken
and it's like she had her ownplan, You had your own plan and
the star stars aligned. Yeah,we get U haul lesbian accusations all the
(32:17):
time, but you don't live together. We don't live together. Okay,
that's very smart. Yeah, lookat you, I know. Yeah,
yeah, Claire, and she wasthat's amazing. But she was already there.
She beat you there. Yeah,she's been here for a while.
Okay, So even though you hadthe plan to move there, if anything,
(32:38):
you're the one who's looking like youreload for her, which is kind
of the shitty position to be in. You got to set the story straight.
Let's get it out right now.Claire was already going, guys,
Claire was already going yeah, no, I try to tell people. But
I'm sure though too. It's likeyou probably knew a little bit if you're
familiar with La, Like she's gonnago to l A. I am realized,
(33:00):
like it's not all it's cracked upto be, Like San Diego is
a million times better vibe for sure. Oh yeah, and I was.
I was telling her that at thetime. She's like visiting La. I'm
like, I'm like writing her apro con list for San Diego, Like
I have my influence. I wasworking, I was working what I could.
(33:22):
Well, where all can we findyou? Clear? Yeah, you're
on TikTok, but it sounds you'realso on Instagram and YouTube yep, across
all the platforms. It's at ClaireUnderscore Hold twelve. That's TikTok Instagram,
that's my YouTube handle. I alsohave a Pinterest account that has all of
these mood boards. Oh sweet,Oh okay, I never pluged that,
(33:45):
but yeah, it's it's a goodresource for people looking for alpha insbo I
have like different occasions on there.It's also Claire Underscore Hold twelve. Okay
Claire and Claire's with an e yesc l A. I are e underscore
h O L T twelve amazing.That's specially my user name since before I
(34:06):
was on social media, so Iassume twelve is the B ball number.
Yeah, yeah, you nice,very cool. Yeah, well, Claire,
this is amazing. Yeah, Iappreciate you coming on. It was
it was awesome to meet you.You're so sweet, So for sure,
keep doing what you're doing. Welove it. Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me. Itwas really nice meeting you, and you
guys are doing really important work,so it's really nice to see. Thank
(34:30):
you all right you Claire, Takecare, guys. I want to support
the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate usand write a review on Apple podcast or
Spotify. We love listener feedback.If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali atgmail dot com. That's Melissa M.
(34:53):
E. L I s A andAli A L l I at gmail dot
com. Or follow us on Instagramat Lesbian Chronicles
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