April 13, 2025 • 47 mins
Our friend Robin shares her take on kissing techniques -- her story of coming into her own as a mother of three, and her life now co-parenting/"nesting" with her ex-husband.
Check out Lesbian Chronicles Merch!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
Check out Lesbian Chronicles Merch!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. How welcome to the Lesbian Chronicle.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Awesome?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
How are you, my friends? I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm happy to be here. It was a long journey.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I know. I can't believe that you came in town.
I was like weekend with the kids.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I know, well, I saw this event with the low happening,
and I don't get to go to those that often.
I don't have the kids tonight, and I was like,
I'll make the drive. And I was planning on bringing
my dog and just going back home.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Anytime Melissa tells me she's bringing the dog, I start
to really come on.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
My dog can't help who she is.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yes, so she has serious social.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Is terrible, and he doesn't realize that she too is
a dog, and so she gets mad at dogs.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And she doesn't want you to put her with the dog.
She's like, what am I doing with She's like, I
am a human being.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Put me on the couch, so and then I have
to carry her and that gives her more of a
power thing.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Howard dynamic, she's up high.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So but my mom caught win that I was coming
to Atlanta, and she panicked and said, Dad's coming to
get the dog.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So good.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Charlie's with the grandparents for the.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Right so thankful.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Ask how many times my kids stay with the grandparents
for the night.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, they only want the dog.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Never do.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
If they can't handle your kids, they would die. I know,
I know, Oh, I mean it would be obscene.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Come on, you know mine are wild.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Reed is a little he is white, rambunctious, he is wild.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So well. So happy birthday to Mandy.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, man, you just celebrated a birthday and.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We had a total blast at her happy hour. That
was a lot of fun. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
It was such a fun little like dynamic and totally
I'd never been to what was it called Hawkers Yep,
before I didn't even know that existed on the belt Line.
That was a really cool spot.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It was super duper fun. And obviously the first best
part was that it's her birthday. But the second best part, oh, Laura,
would you rather which For those of you who don't
know this game, I learned this game from my friend Sam.
If you're listening, Sam, this is like one of the
best things you ever taught me, which is when you're bored,
you come up with insane, insane scenarios, sexual scenarios, men, women,
(02:43):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I mean, we can't even I don't feel comfortable what
was posed to me last weekend.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So she and I would get disgusting, I mean, and
it was like if it became like if you answer
me too quickly of what you'd rather do in the
sexual situation, then I sweet in the pot with like,
well now you got to add this to it. So
but how fun is that game?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was fun, but it was also a little terrifying
because I was like, if God is real, I could
really be hit by lightning right now.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Do you also ever wonder like is this normal behavior?
Like sometimes I'm like God, Like, do other people of
our age like act like this? You know?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Just like? Did I never? Fully?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I think it depends on the crowd because me and
my ex husband had kind of a similar mindset.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, and we went to.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Someone's house one night to play like games and it
was telestrations and we were drawing dicks by the end.
We were never invited back.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It makes it so much more fun.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It does now in the same vein. I'd like to
pose a question that I heard today. This is a
much more PG version of a question. But if you
had to choose between saving your dog from drowning or
a stranger, who would you pick?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Oh shit, I mean I'm not the right person to
ask because my dog has become like a damn dude,
don't don't do that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Man.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
See, instantly, I was like, I'm saving my dog.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I know, I'm in our love affair with her.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I am too, I'm in love with this dog love.
So I would have to choose the dog. I'm sorry
to the human I know.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
But then I think about if I try afterwards. But
if somebody else was choosing between like my child and
their dog. Oh, and I'm like, is karma Like I
gotta pick the person because I need someone to save
my child.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I know that's true.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Damn, Okay, let's moll that over.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I know it's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It is a tough one, like, yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Just a dog, right, but it's also my family member,
I know, well.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Especially your dog, my baby, right, It's true. Well, I
think the would you rather kind of has me thinking
about my our guest that's here today. Yes, And we're
gonna start with because the other day she and I
were talking, and first of all, I should say we've
asked her a on the show now every week for
probably twelve years, since she came out, we've been asking
(05:08):
her to come on the show. But she brought something.
She's like, do you ever like think about like kissing compatibility?
And I actually do think a lot about kissing compatibility.
So welcome to the show, Robin. Thank you. I'm happy
to be here. Are you happy to be here?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
She's like, you twisted my arm?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
And I'm willing I've ever been to be Really what
changed your what finally changed your mind? I think just
like where I am, like where my mindset and where
I am like in my life, And I don't know just.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You finally were like fuck it, I better just do it.
I guess.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I feel like I have to say from what you
were just talking about about is it just like my
age and I haven't matured that. I'm still playing these
like rawn cheese games. No, it's the people because I
do the same ship with my friends you do. Okay,
So it's universal, yes, but I think it's personalities and
maybe that's why, like we are all drawn to each
other as friends. I don't think all women are doing
(06:04):
this stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Not all women are doing this stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think it's one of those things that kind of
relates to that curiosity standpoint, and we're talking about it.
It's like, rather, go there are.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
What people are going to present you with. It's true?
Or are you not it's really true. I remember at
the lake I looked at you. Nothing was said, but
like something funny happened that no one else noticed. We
just made it and I didn't even know Robin that
well at this point. I looked at her, she looked
at me, and we both like nodded an acknowledgment that
that was funny as hell was funny. No one else
is noticing, but moving on, and I knew right there
(06:42):
my mom, she was my person and I literally later said,
you are funny as hell, like I need Yeah, totally,
But kissing compatibility give us your take and then we'll
tell you ours.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And just some experiences that I've had no name. I
like starting with the good experiences. If you are on
the same like energy level with somebody, or you have
the same style of kissing, because it can.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
There's a wide range, you know, there is a wide range.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
But if you have the like the same kind of
I don't know, for lack of a better word, like
energy with kissing compatibility, it can just be really hot
and like lead to other things. Right, It's it's incredible
for a play. And on the flip side of that,
if you don't have that with somebody, or you feel
like they're not reciprocating what you're getting out bringing the energy,
(07:38):
it's a turnoff and it's like where is this gonna? How?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
How can this end?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
But what about also if they're too slow or too fast,
too fast, too fast, too fast.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Or like yeah, or too slow honestly, because I'm not
a super slow kisser, but I'm also not a super
fast one.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm like in between, you gotta have a mixture. Yeah,
why don't you show.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Us nor make out with your hand? Like in middle school?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Have you ever noticed this came to me the other
day and I said it out loud, which is somebody's
mouth is always the outside mouth, and someone's mouth is
usually the inside mouth. Wait what Yeah, And like what
I've noticed is that the person in power of the kiss,
like the person.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I've envisioned that far differently than what you were explaining.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Is okay, yeah, yeah, Like the lips are on.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Someone's lips on the outside. Okay, wait, kissing.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Don't tell it, don't don't mention this. But just like
in your future kisses, maybe to night ladies, in your
future kisses, notice who has the bigger It's almost like
when you come in, you know, when you come in
for a handshake and you come over the top. It's
like a power move. Dude, So it's kissing outside, like
(08:54):
if you're the bigger kisser, it's a.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Power would murder me if I shook hands like that.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Somebody has to be on top.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Somebody kind of does this and says I'm in charge.
The man does Well, you're the man. You want to
be the man or you want to be Okay, So
kissing compatibility is real. Yeah for me it is. Yeah,
So have you had a really bad kiss that you
are like, this is going no further. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I have multiple No, I wouldn't say multiple, but a handful,
(09:24):
let's say a handful.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I don't know, but it was like, okay, I don't
I'm not interested in taking this any further. WHOA like
if it's not this somebody I kissed out a bar
or something, and I was like, yeah, we're not going
home together.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
P s A.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You guys, if you kiss Robin, you better get it right.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
You better get it right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You better get it right. Guys. All right, So how
comfortable are you like telling us about your coming out story.
I'm pretty comfortable. Okay, let's hear it. Told it enough times.
Let's know.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Right, It's hard to know, like where to start because
it's a long it can be like drawn out, but
I'll start with saying I was clueless completely. I'm definitely
not somebody who knew I was gay and just didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Do anything about it. I was completely clueless.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And of course, in hindsight now there's signs or crushes
or whatever that I just didn't know didn't recognize at
the time for what they were. But I mean I
had an experience with someone, Okay, that was the first
time that I was questioning.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I guess got curious, got curious.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
But even just leading up to that, there was definitely
something in my brain that was like drawing me to
this person, right, or.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Other people too, but like there was there had.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
To have been something there that I just wasn't able
to I wasn't self aware enough to identify, right, Yes,
But I became really curious when like a few a
couple of people I knew came out as bisexual, for instance,
and that was like the first time I was like whoa, Okay, like,
tell me more about that quick, how did this happen
and what did it feel like? And like, you know,
(11:09):
what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And then I had an experience with a friend and
at the time, like nothing really came of it. It
was like right before COVID, and I tried telling my
ex husband about it. At the time didn't go over
very well because were.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You telling him because you had a guilty conscient I
was guilty. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
I came home from a trip and felt guilty and
was also like, holy shit, I'm attracted to women. But
even saying that was hard, but I said it like
in the same sentence basically, and he didn't take it
very well because in his mind it was like I
cheated on him, so nothing else mattered, nothing else, nothing
else that I had matter anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Can I butt in for a second and ask a question,
did you in your eyes did you think this is
less so cheating because it was a woman?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yes? I did, same.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, I don't know what it is about that I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
He even initially like that. Let's say the morning after.
I didn't feel guilty about it right away, and then
she was like, I feel guilty about this because.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
She she was with the man, and she like knew
knew him to an extent, so she felt guilty, and
I was like, oh shit, like I should probably feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I feel guilty.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
My like my like all the fireworks and confusion and
stuff was like was all I could think about. And
then when I got home, not no, not necessarily that,
it was more just like I was so confused and like,
what is happening in my life right now? Like all
of a sudden, so many other things that I'd kind
(12:48):
of kept under wraps, as far as like not being
happy in my marriage and just not feeling feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Like fulfilled by those like life.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Milestones that I was checking and I just I hadn't
felt that like fulfillment happiness that I expected from Like
I mean, I've heard both of you guys talk about
that before, like you're.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Checking off the baby, the house actly, and then.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's like, what can we do with the house. Maybe
that'll change, right.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
And we had done those things and so yeah, it
didn't go over very well in the conversation that I
had with him about it, and then basically just like
didn't bring it up again for at least a couple
more years.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Wow, and I became it.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
This was like then during COVID, So we went through COVID,
had another baby.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Kind of easy to hide. It was easy to.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Hide because COVID was such a small world and I
wasn't seeing people other than my family and my neighbors.
And it was actually like a great and you're in
the throes of the babies with the babies, and so
it was like it was fine.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I was.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Continuing to or like exploring, like watching queer content for instance,
like a show that stands out to me that I
watched by myself during COVID was feel good.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
With me and Martin.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Oh yeah, it's a good one.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, it was a really good show, and I like
recommended it to a bunch of friends, but at the
time wasn't like, yeah, and I'm gay. It just was like, wow,
I'm really like resonating with.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Were you fearful when you were recommending it to people, like,
oh God, are they going to be like, oh, she's
watching gay shit?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
No, not really because the people that I was sending
it to are like longtime friends who are all very I.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Was so scared to tell anyone I watched the L word.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I didn't even know about the L word until another
like year later probably, and the like.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
In your face gay of course versus Wentworth. Oh, that's
another one.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I watched Black Wentworth Feel Good. There was a show
on HBO that was like Gentleman Jack or something.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Only on first season or two.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But these were all shows with very prominent like the
whole storyline was like lesbian relationships. And I watched all
of these shows in like twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Twenty, and your husband was not watching them, and he.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Wasn't watching them with me, did he know? No, I
was hiding it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, So it was like my way of kind of
getting to know I don't know, like trying to get
an understanding of like lesbians without still admitting to myself
that like maybe I was one.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah maybe I was. Like I feel like I did
that too, Like I have so many memories of like
watching Wentworth and being like extreme and.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Being like into it. We did watch There's the Christmas
Movie with.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Christ and Stewart Happy a season.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
He and I watched it together when it came out,
and like both really liked it. But while we were
watching it, I was like like side eyeing him, being.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Like, how's he reacting watching me? Or does he know?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Because because I had already like had his experience with
the friend of the time, So watching content together that
involved like lesbians hooking up was like I was like,
oh my god, I need to be like.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Don't react, don't get sport me. It's like watching it
with your mom at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So then like fast forward a couple of years, we
moved moved way out to the suburbs for a job
for him, and I hated living there, but I'm so
glad we did it because that was what I needed
to just like sit in.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
My loneliness honestly, Like it was.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Rough, and he and I went through like a really
rough period, but it was like what we needed to
wake me up. Mainly I started going to therapy. We
went to therapy a little bit together. It was like
the first time that I out loud said to like
my therapist and a couple of friends that I was
like unhappy, yeah, in my marriage and just with this
(16:37):
like new revelation that I was like really struggling with.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So hard to say that. It's so hard.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Even just to say like I'm attracted to women was
so hard out loud to people that had known me forever,
and the like one of the funny parts is that
these two friends in particular that I talked to about
it initially were like, yeah, we know, because we'd had conversations.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Over the years. But it was like they these games.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
They know, they knew I was unhappy and that I
was attracted to women. They're like, it's about time, but
you needed to be able to like say this for yourself,
and we're so happy that you're saying it now, and like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I do remember being in therapy a long time before
I said the words, and I kept thinking like, God,
I'm going to do it this time. I'm going to
tell her because I knew I was okay. Yeah, but
it's like I just couldn't bring myself and I was
like coming out to my therapist as I was coming
out to myself.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Honestly, I was like not okay with it. Not that
I was I felt like I was homophobic or anything
like that. I just was like, how can this possibly be?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I already made a married.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Man, I was gonna say, wrestling with me, Like what
now like being a failure in certain ways to the
outside of Like I'm married and people think I have
this great life with you know, ex kids, and like
I was checking on the box well, and it's it's
interesting to relate feeling like a failure because people do
(18:08):
act like being married as an accomplishment, you know, Like
I'll look at them, they were married for fifty years
and it's like, okay, but they were they happy? Did
they really enjoy each other for those entire fifty years?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Was it hard?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Like why did they get married to begin with?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Was it because they were so in love? Or was
it because like she was pregnant. She was pregnant and
it was time to get married?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
You know? Yeah, Like I think so too, and.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's also like how hard is it to accomplish that.
It's not like you go out and get a PhD. Congratulations,
can get married, you know, and can get married.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Divorce feels like a failure.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I mean, it just carried I think it's less so now,
but it used to carry such a stigma, like still
for me. Like I grew up in the nineties and
it was like, first of all, not that many people
were divorced in my community, but if they were, it
was because dad was an alcoholic or like maybe mom
or dad died and it was a really sad situation.
But it wasn't just like because it wasn't the right
(19:01):
thing and you mutually decided that you weren'ting to be
because the kids would be better off.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
The only divorces that I heard of when I was
a kid, it was like a fair situ Yeah, it
was always the.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Dad and the poor children. I always talk about sweet
Emily Taylor in my grade school. Then her parents got divorced.
I still remember my mom was like, everyone needs to
be so sweet to her. Her mom and dad got divorced.
This is horrible, poor Emily, this is terrible.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
One of my friends, Emily Taylor, his parents got divorced.
In his dad bottom and Nintendo and like a power
pad and a power glove, and I was like.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Fuck yeah, divorced. And I even remember after my divorce
when my rings, like I didn't have my rings, and
I remember and going to a store and being embarrassed
in front of these dipshit women that worked care that
I didn't have wedding rings.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
What did you do with your wedding rings?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I still have them.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I do too. Yeah, I don't know that I can.
I don't know I'm going to give I'll never give.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It a yeah. And then I like came out to
my ex round two. Uh, let's see. So remember that affair, Yeah,
I need we need to talk again, but this time
it was like, let's sit down and have a conversation.
And of course to start with that was like I'm
(20:22):
not straight and I know this now and I can't
unknow it. So we need to talk about the fact
that something.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Is going to have to change.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And it was still another year after that that we
finally moved in town where I live now.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
You moved to what I call the gay transition neighborhood
where people when they realized they're gay. I mean, thank god.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, I moved here because my life is vastly different
now than how long were you living there when I
met you at Jean's for a durak, only a couple
of months, Okay, you had just gotten Yeah, like I
think you messaged me. I posted on my Instagram something
about being in Kirkwood and you messaged me like day
that I posted, and we're like, welcome to Kirkwood. Yeah,
we had met one other time. We met and you know,
(21:06):
let's get dinner. And it took a couple of months
before we actually did it. But yeah, it was like
two months. Maybe it was like the end of summer
when we got dinner. Yeah, and ever since then, basically
I see you every other weekend.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Every day. I see almost every day. We do a
lot of dog walking, but walking dogs. Robin cruises by
this window and make faces at me, flex me.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
One time I scared the ship out of your front
of me.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
That was that was a highlight for me. That was
a real highlight or not for me? Amazing, Yeah, No,
it's so, it's so, I'm so glad you moved here. Well,
the reason that I wanted you to come on is
because I think this is so interesting how people come
out and right when they come out, they're almost like
(21:53):
I don't want it's not weak, but it's like there's
a baby ness to them that's like almost.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
There's not and we're not talking baby birden'y.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That the other day what a baby bird was, but
we're not talking insecurity. It's an insecurity. It's like you're
not in your power yet, you're not in your authenticity yet.
So you're still kind of how we were with our catalysts.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, and with my catalyst, I was so I was
so like insecure.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I was like she's ordering food, she's picking.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
The it's hanging out with an adult.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You're hanging out with a you don't know what you're doing.
You're just along for this ride. They're the ones setting
all the dates. You're you're waiting for the thing. Yeah,
and so it's like you do that for a minute,
and then you have more experiences and you everything kind
of we've said this, the job starts to get a
little better, you get more powerful or like we started
(22:44):
the podcast or you started doing comedy, like you come
into your own more and more and more in that
authenticity of like being true to yourself. And so I
think Robin is such a great example of that because
it's just like, little by little every time I'm i mean,
every couple of months, it's like I meet this new
Robin that is different than the original Robin. Yeah, so same,
(23:08):
Tell me how you see that?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, I mean there's not necessarily like one pinpoint thing,
but just a culmination of time therapy for sure, community
people around me who bring me.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Joy and fulfillment in my life.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Experiences with women, like a variety of experiences like closeness
and emotions or physical relationships like further validation every time
I feel some kind of like connection with women.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And yeah, just it's kind of like.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I think, generally speaking, women feel best about themselves when
they're in like let's say their forties or their fifties,
or like I know who I am, I'm confident in myself,
I know where I am in my life. And I
was like floundering in my early thirties, was like holy shit,
where am I?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
What am I doing? And now I'm like fast tracked
to just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I just feel good in my skin now, Yeah, And
I never did before. I just always felt a little
bit out of place, a little insecure. I mean the
friends that have known me a really long time, even
on phone calls or especially in person, they're like, you
carry yourself differently now. I think I can hear from
your voice and like the way your body language that
(24:19):
you're happy, right you just seem at peace, and I am.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Like, it's just does your ex husband ever say anything
like you're different now? Or no? No, no, that was
probably painful to say. I feel. Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe some I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I have hopes for some day us being able to
be in more of a place like that where we
can I don't know, have those kinds of conversations.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
But right now it's not like that. What about like
your work life, like how do you see have you
felt it in other areas? Not just like being out
in the gay community. Yeah, I mean with my work.
I mean, people know me know that.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
It's it's just not what defines me, like I've never
My work is fine and I'm happy with it, but
I'm just I don't care to be at the top
of anything. I'm just very content being like a highly
valued person who's really good at my job. And that's
really it. Like that's what's making me happy. But but
just in the last few months is the first time
(25:17):
in a long time that I have actually felt ready
to be like, I'm god, I need to I want
to ask for more.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, like I want more of this, I want more
of that. I want you know. And it's and it's
I mean.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It's definitely all related to just like my own I
don't know self confident confidence.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And I saw it too when you were moving into
your place.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That was that was definitely a big transition because I
felt very in limbo for months after we had moved here,
before we actually started living separately. And then once we
were living separately, I had that freedom to just, i mean,
either be alone completely in the place and quiet in
(25:57):
my thoughts, or.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Be with people who I like being around, like.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You you are, like you know, and you guys are
doing the nesting thing right, Yes, can you talk more
about that, because I feel like some people haven't heard
too much success from it.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
So, yeah, we have a house that we share where
our kids stay, and then we have an apartment really
close by that's just a small place that we rotate
in and out of, so the kids are always at
the house one of us is always there with them
and we take turns basically being there or at the apartment,
and it's the apartment right now is it.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Feels like a hotel a little bit, and I just
like that. It's like such a calm, easy place. Yeah,
it's temporary.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I don't want it that forever, but right now, just
like in this season, for lack of a non cliche word,
it just is a great in between place when I'm
not with the kids, to just be able to like
fully work on you unlined and work on me, or
like have the freedom to do things if I want
to do things, or when you.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Were that's the place, I mean when you were moving
in there, like I remember like Robin's like carrying heavy
ass shit like up to the apartment. But also like
such a testament to the community because she would put
out like a text like dude, I have a really
heavy thing. Who can meet me, And there'd be like
immediately like people like we're coming, let's come help you
get the shit inside.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Definitely, those were moments for me on top of walking
Mandy Yeppy birthday Mandy like hours and hours of walking
with her or I mean she helped me a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
You helped me.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Christine helped me, Lindsay helped me, like so many different
people stepped up physically when I needed shit help getting
things out there, And I mean it was a testament
to the people that I'm surrounding myself with that like
they're going to be there for me.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, And that.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Is such a huge part of how I was able,
I think, to get through a really hard time, like
it can be alone.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
That but I never really felt lonely. I always felt
like at peace with it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It's also really hard to during that time to even
spend time any time alone.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, you know, it was.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It's much easier now we're like six months in. It's
so much easier now than it was the first month.
I remember texting like probably Mandy and Ally and Lindsay
one Saturday when like I didn't have any plans and
none of they all had plans, and I.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Was like, God, what am I going to do all day?
It was not easy. It really wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
But now I can do that, and it's like I
have I want to have nights when I'm there during
the week, especially with no plans, like I just want
to be chill, reading or watching a show and like
going bed, like getting sleep, and just like recovering and resting.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I do recall that feeling of like not having plans,
and I remember being nesting. I was in downtown Decatur
at an apartment just like yours, and I was alone
for like what felt like one of the first times,
like and I remember being tear of like I have
this whole night. This is a weekend night, I'm alone,
and I ended up like walking to random Ted's Montana
girl picking up a salad. I came home and I
(29:10):
sat on the floor in front of the TV, and
I realized, like I'm fucking happy, like if something hit
me that, I'm like, I'm internally I feel so good
right now. I'm about to eat this delicious meal. I'm
like going to get a great night's sleep. I'm through
the hard part of like the actual separation. And I
remember feeling like, wow, this is like a milestone. Yeah
(29:31):
you know, yeah, and I'd say you're definitely there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
And I mean in other ways too, like we've talked
about just feeling I don't know, like just more authentic
to myself and like more powerful in my ability to
like take charge of a situation.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Like ordering drinks or you know, there's just times when.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I like you guys both said with your catalyst, like
for sure, also with mine, Like in the earlier days
of like any kind of relationship that we have, it
was like, Okay, she's controlling every interaction, and I'm just
like I didn't feel like I could be that person
for a lot of reasons. But now, you know, it's
such a different table and like so many different and
(30:18):
so many different, like I don't know relationships, whether it's
friendships or like romantic things or physical things. It's like
it's just very different now. Just I feel good about
myself now, so I can speak up for the things
that I want.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, you know, talk about I don't if you don't
want to or you don't have to. But like dating,
like you've gone on some dates, like you're out there,
like talk about that a little bit, like what is
that like? And then also like you're showing up, you know,
newly kind of in this new role. Sometimes you're dating
women that have been out a long time. Sometimes other
are new, Like what talk about that? Like dynamic when
(30:54):
you show up at like a dinner.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, I mean I my experience is kind of limited
as far as like actually dating people, But I have
been on dates and have had, like like I said,
various like connections with people, and I definitely can tell
a difference between if I go on a date with
someone and I just don't feel anything like they can
be a perfectly cool person, attractive, we can have a
(31:18):
good conversation, but if I don't feel like a draw.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
To them, the kiss tests, yeah we have to go
I don't even have to go there.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, then it's like it's a that's okay. Right now,
I feel no pressure on myself to be dating somebody
like a zero. I'm very content with where I am
right now, and I feel like hopefully that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
But yeah, I mean in other ways, like I've definitely
felt drawn to people, and I mean I'm single, so
nothing has you know, gone super well.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
No, I don't think I think you should be.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Saying, yeah, I'm just I'm thankful for the experiences that
I have had as far as like I know that
I know that I can feel that like really good
emotional connection to something, even if it doesn't go the
way that I wanted to, I'm still grateful for that feeling.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Like I'm happy to be to be able to feel
that for someone for sure. I mean, I've known some
weekends where you've had like two things happening. So I
don't can I tell the story? There was like a
funny story. You we can cut this out if you
don't want. But the date Robin had this, she'd like
(32:33):
had talked to this woman and then she's like, Robin's
like barely replying, like days are going by, she's not
replying to this woman. And finally the woman's like, you
know what, like you are bringing zero in. It was
very funny. But then you did and you guys had
a great time. Yeah, then I did.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I was like, you know what, You're right, and I'm
sorry about that, but like but I was like, I
didn't know that that's what you wanted.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
You're interested. I hadn't.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Well, to be fair, I hadn't even met this person yet.
So for me, it was like maybe if we meet
and there's a connection, then yes, like I know myself
to be bringing the energy. But I was like, okay, fair,
like thank you for letting me know, and I did.
I changed it and then we had a date and
then it went really well, like we had a great time,
(33:25):
but there were some there were some drawbacks for me
that made it so that I was not feeling it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And we were supposed to have a second date and
then again she was like, I can tell you're not
that into this, so we probably.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Shouldn't have we get her.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I was like, you're or so right, and I was,
and I that is how I'm feeling. I'm like, I
wasn't in a headspace at the time to be interested
in anyone.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I didn't think.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
So I told her that and she was like, yeah,
I mean, I appreciate you saying that, Like it was
really great to meet you and it was good terms.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, that's It's such a nice, nice thing to do
for someone, like from both parties that I feel like
doesn't happen enough. And I've been watching Love on the
Spectrum on Netflix and one of the things I love
that these people are so purest honest.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
They're just not help How do you go with that though,
when you're hearing all these messages of like also, like
some people talk about like immediately I should feel something,
but then there's a lot of other people who are
like it takes while.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
To like, yeah, I don't know in TBD for me,
but I feel like, just based on some of the
experiences that I've had, I need I do need a
little bit of a build up and like an emotional
connection with someone for other things to like work out
that and but yeah, going back to like the point
of having honesty and like open communication, I was incapable
(34:46):
of that eight months ago because I was so insecure
and I was like, well, but I want this person
to like me, so I'm not going to say the
thing because I'm worried of how they'll react to it.
And now I'm like, I'm going to say it because
it's how I feel and it's hot and if they
act badly, then that's on them. That's not only Yeah, yeah,
and better to know and better to know and like
(35:06):
and it typically just has gone over well, like I'm
so glad you said that, and I'm on the same
page or whatever, like whatever the outcome, it is just
generally appreciated.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
When you have the ability to just speak up for
what you feel and what you want. I agree totally, yeah,
And I think you're right like about like you do
have to have some kind of emotional connection and sometimes
it does happen very quickly. Melissa and I both had
experiences that have happened right away where it's like I
want to be with this person within fifteen seconds, and
then we've had other experiences where it's like takes a
(35:39):
minute to kind of feel the way you're supposed to feel.
Part we aren't baby birds anymore, and.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Now I'm so skeptical.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I'm like, nah, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I feel like we all want and appreciate that like
instantaneous yeah, ry fun And is that realistic for like
longer term. I don't know, like yeah, because you're not
always going to have that instant like I want to
be on this person right now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, or just I want to talk to them all
about I can't stop thinking about them.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I can't stop talking to them. I don't know everything
about them. I mean, of course you want all of
those things to be true, but it's just, yeah, it
doesn't always happen immediately, no.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
So I think it's like figuring out what how long
do you give it until you're like, okay, this is
like we're friends, yeah, you know, And I don't know
the answer of that. Yeah. I think it's a hard
like you have to meet a lot of women and
like go on dates like you're doing to kind of
feel the feelings. Yeah, Like there's been plenty of times
Melissa would go on dates and then report back like
(36:41):
I don't know, like you try.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
And maybe I'd hang out a second time. Yeah, you know,
but it's kind of like if it's not there the
second time, yeah, like you need to.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Just I've had a couple of those two and again
it's like people who I I you know, they're cute
and they're ye oh, I enjoyed spending time with them,
But then I I haven't really had the feeling of
like I really want to know what they're doing right now.
I think about them when I wake up. I feel
like that's an indicator for me. Is like I'm thinking
about you when I wake up. So true is like
(37:13):
I'm into you?
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, I totally agree. How do you though, do the
thing where you're like not immediately like two women, it's
easy just to be friends. We've spent our whole life
cultivating friendships with women. I have women mom groups, I
have friends at the kids' school. It's like it's your
friends with women. Yeah, So then it's like now I'm
changing to Okay, I've got to show up and kind
of make you think I'm interested in you, which is
(37:35):
like a complete different thing than what I've done my
whole life. What does that look like? Like? How do
you show up at the date and like we're not
here to be friends? I mean it's.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Little things like eye contact, long eye contact, maybe like
you know, touching their knee under the whoah, or I
don't know, like really focusing in on what they're saying.
I mean it's just like attentive I think for me
at least, Yeah, yeah, remembering what they said and asking
them about it, like just paying attention to them.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And you would do that with you in the eye
contact is more yeah, more friendly? How about you? How
do you do it? Melissa?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
I have no idea because Melissa, you you could be
like you could.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Be sitting on Melissa's lap and She's like there was
nowhere to sit Like I don't get it. I don't
get it. Do you think she likes me? Do you
think she likes you? Do we do? It's true, Let's
be honest. I have a lot to learn.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I mean I'm not I'm no expert, but just again,
those are kind of like instinctual things.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, do you feel like though it's harder with women,
Like it's more there's more at stake, Like if they
don't like me and I make a play for it.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
It's yeah, there's more at stake, just because it's the
people you actually are meant to be with, not that person,
but just women, whereas with men, like I was never pursuing. No,
I was definitely being pursued.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I was never flex I mean, yeah, she's not even
backing down. I yes, I was.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I have one more question before we wrap. How has
your ex husband handled everything? I mean, from going from
like you know, having to admit to him that you
would cheated to where you guys are today.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I mean, honestly, really well. It took time for him
to kind of get past like the hurt of you know,
the cheating thing, but or just we just didn't.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Talk about it for a long time.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
But he's always been since coming out to him like
for real, for real, as like I'm not straight, and
then eventually like I'm a lesbian.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know, we can't be married anymore.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
He's been very supportive of me in that way. It
was really hard for him to accept the fact that,
like we need to get divorced, mostly because we have
three kids and the logistics of that are really hard.
And I mean there's no sugarcoating the fact that it's
hard to be like by yourself with.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Kids, so parenting.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Uh. It was just kind of something you know, he
had to accept and come to terms with.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And I mean now, definitely, with.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Six months or so under under our belt of being
being separated, he's getting a better handle on it, I
would say, But I mean it's it's I'm having an
easier time of it.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I would say, just yeah, there's was there anything specific
that you said to him that like clicked a little
bit with kind of him understanding like why you don't
need to be married anymore? Because I think so many
men are like they bargain, you know, they do like
what can we how can we can.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Make this work?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, and you believe that at the beginning, Yeah, absolutely
did I did.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yeah, not necessarily one thing. I definitely the whole process,
like every step of kind of undoing our family dynamics
and things like that was like me leading the way
and me, you know, trying to have these conversations with him.
At one point, I said if we were getting divorced
for any other reason, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
You would ask me to like stay together.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Yeah, but like we're not right for each other and
you deserve to be happy just as much as I do,
and to have that from a partner. And even that
he had a hard time hearing.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
But I think that.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Was kind of an like he was like, yeah, I
mean I understand, yeah, right. One thing he said was
like I don't want to be the person who holds
you back.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Oh wow, damn. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And also I think for both people it's like it's
it's hard to start over. And I think with them
they're like, well, I found the woman I want to be.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
They made their lives.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Now I got to do this all over again, and
like I really loved you and we have.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
These kids, and I'm not used to doing it by myself.
It's heartbreaking obviously for so many reasons. And it's exciting, excited, wonderful, and.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, there's definitely the guilt that I carry or I
don't not really anymore because I know with certainty it
was the right thing to do, but just that exact thing,
like I know that on the other side of this,
I have this whole new part of my life that
I'm going to be unfolding and exploring and being excited about.
(42:23):
And it's just different for the ex husband. So I've
tried totally different.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, but they do grow into I think you eventually
get a little excited.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, you get excited. They realize that's that they have
a whole new exciting chapter.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, you know, I think it is. I think it
is harder for them to see that though, too. Yeah,
I mean we've had we also have had more time
to process.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
I feel like that's next thought.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I was so far ahead in my processing than he was,
so I've always kind of tried to give him time
to process. That's very knowing that I've had so much
more time ahead of him to come to terms with
everything and then get to the point where I was like, Okay,
here's this thing, here's the next step in this that
(43:10):
I'm ready to take, and I'm ready for it now
or you know, very soon, And for him it was
always kind of like a shock, which at some point
you're like, Okay, this shouldn't be in a shock anymore,
Like come on, dude, I mean yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
But you guys are in a good place now you
had your your kid's birthday party last week. I'm assuming
he was there.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, his whole family was there. I mean it's it's
i think, as good as it could.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Be right now.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah that's good.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah that's amazing. Yeah, well, thank you so much for
coming on. We're so glad that you're like in our squad,
like you had crazy value. Yes, I mean you know,
I mean that you're funny as hell, You're smart, You're
fun to talk to.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Like, I've she's got killer dance moves.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
He's got that. Literally, I've got it on video. I've
got it on video. I'm like, look at this girl,
not the only one who has it.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Really, let me know that.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
At the lake, she's like I was alone in the
bathroom dancing.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
I like to dance, and this is something my friends
also know about me. I get drunk especially, and I
will get up on a stage by myself and just
feel it.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I like to dance on some small stage. I don't
have great moves.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
I'm not like doing specific things.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I'm just I'm just vibing, you know. I felt I
saw some vibes with Robin. What car is that that
we were dancing at the basement. Yeah, that was very fun.
That was so much fun. Yeah, so thank you a
million times for coming on. I'm glad. I'm just trying
to think of a really gross would you rather but
(44:45):
that I knew Melissa would edit it out because it
would be.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
We will be canceled.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
We will be canceled.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
What we're gonna say is, listen, guys, we have merch
on the website. We were hoping everyone will take a
look for spring. Get a hat, get a T shirt,
kill her stuff that we handpicked.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yes, and I'm going to spring something on you right now.
I want our listeners to respond to. Okay, shit if
last summer I went to June or to Pride in
Denver in June, and I wore a shirt that said
feed me to the Lesbian.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And when I tell you that, people stopped me constantly
and said where did you get that?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Ship?
Speaker 2 (45:25):
So I have wanted to sell a feed me to
the Lesbian shirt, And so I want to know what
do people think?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
She wants a shirt, guys, just to keep this on
the to keep it real. She also wants to wear
a scissoring shirt.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
It's your son's field day shirt.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
It's like a gang sign that looks like scissoring. It
looks like it does look like scissoring, and we might
be selling those. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
It's a little subtle, you know, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So but yeah, we've.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Got really great stuff on there too. Yeah, it's style stuff.
It's not like you're ordering some crummy, shitty.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Oh it's a cool hat. And if you wear it
and take a picture of yourself, post it and tag us,
we will repost it. Please please please order merch. Yes,
all right, guys, bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate us
and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali
A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles.
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. How welcome to the Lesbian Chronicle.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Awesome?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
How are you, my friends? I'm good.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm happy to be here. It was a long journey.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I know. I can't believe that you came in town.
I was like weekend with the kids.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I know, well, I saw this event with the low happening,
and I don't get to go to those that often.
I don't have the kids tonight, and I was like,
I'll make the drive. And I was planning on bringing
my dog and just going back home.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Anytime Melissa tells me she's bringing the dog, I start
to really come on.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
My dog can't help who she is.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yes, so she has serious social.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Is terrible, and he doesn't realize that she too is
a dog, and so she gets mad at dogs.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
And she doesn't want you to put her with the dog.
She's like, what am I doing with She's like, I
am a human being.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Put me on the couch, so and then I have
to carry her and that gives her more of a
power thing.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Howard dynamic, she's up high.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So but my mom caught win that I was coming
to Atlanta, and she panicked and said, Dad's coming to
get the dog.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So good.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Charlie's with the grandparents for the.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Right so thankful.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Ask how many times my kids stay with the grandparents
for the night.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, they only want the dog.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Never do.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
If they can't handle your kids, they would die. I know,
I know, Oh, I mean it would be obscene.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Come on, you know mine are wild.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Reed is a little he is white, rambunctious, he is wild.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So well. So happy birthday to Mandy.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, man, you just celebrated a birthday and.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
We had a total blast at her happy hour. That
was a lot of fun. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
It was such a fun little like dynamic and totally
I'd never been to what was it called Hawkers Yep,
before I didn't even know that existed on the belt Line.
That was a really cool spot.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It was super duper fun. And obviously the first best
part was that it's her birthday. But the second best part, oh, Laura,
would you rather which For those of you who don't
know this game, I learned this game from my friend Sam.
If you're listening, Sam, this is like one of the
best things you ever taught me, which is when you're bored,
you come up with insane, insane scenarios, sexual scenarios, men, women,
(02:43):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I mean, we can't even I don't feel comfortable what
was posed to me last weekend.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So she and I would get disgusting, I mean, and
it was like if it became like if you answer
me too quickly of what you'd rather do in the
sexual situation, then I sweet in the pot with like,
well now you got to add this to it. So
but how fun is that game?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
It was fun, but it was also a little terrifying
because I was like, if God is real, I could
really be hit by lightning right now.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Do you also ever wonder like is this normal behavior?
Like sometimes I'm like God, Like, do other people of
our age like act like this? You know?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Just like? Did I never? Fully?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I think it depends on the crowd because me and
my ex husband had kind of a similar mindset.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, and we went to.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Someone's house one night to play like games and it
was telestrations and we were drawing dicks by the end.
We were never invited back.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It makes it so much more fun.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It does now in the same vein. I'd like to
pose a question that I heard today. This is a
much more PG version of a question. But if you
had to choose between saving your dog from drowning or
a stranger, who would you pick?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Oh shit, I mean I'm not the right person to
ask because my dog has become like a damn dude,
don't don't do that.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Man.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
See, instantly, I was like, I'm saving my dog.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I know, I'm in our love affair with her.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I am too, I'm in love with this dog love.
So I would have to choose the dog. I'm sorry
to the human I know.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
But then I think about if I try afterwards. But
if somebody else was choosing between like my child and
their dog. Oh, and I'm like, is karma Like I
gotta pick the person because I need someone to save
my child.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I know that's true.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Damn, Okay, let's moll that over.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I know it's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
It is a tough one, like, yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Just a dog, right, but it's also my family member,
I know, well.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Especially your dog, my baby, right, It's true. Well, I
think the would you rather kind of has me thinking
about my our guest that's here today. Yes, And we're
gonna start with because the other day she and I
were talking, and first of all, I should say we've
asked her a on the show now every week for
probably twelve years, since she came out, we've been asking
(05:08):
her to come on the show. But she brought something.
She's like, do you ever like think about like kissing compatibility?
And I actually do think a lot about kissing compatibility.
So welcome to the show, Robin. Thank you. I'm happy
to be here. Are you happy to be here?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
She's like, you twisted my arm?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
And I'm willing I've ever been to be Really what
changed your what finally changed your mind? I think just
like where I am, like where my mindset and where
I am like in my life, And I don't know just.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You finally were like fuck it, I better just do it.
I guess.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I feel like I have to say from what you
were just talking about about is it just like my
age and I haven't matured that. I'm still playing these
like rawn cheese games. No, it's the people because I
do the same ship with my friends you do. Okay,
So it's universal, yes, but I think it's personalities and
maybe that's why, like we are all drawn to each
other as friends. I don't think all women are doing
(06:04):
this stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Not all women are doing this stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think it's one of those things that kind of
relates to that curiosity standpoint, and we're talking about it.
It's like, rather, go there are.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
What people are going to present you with. It's true?
Or are you not it's really true. I remember at
the lake I looked at you. Nothing was said, but
like something funny happened that no one else noticed. We
just made it and I didn't even know Robin that
well at this point. I looked at her, she looked
at me, and we both like nodded an acknowledgment that
that was funny as hell was funny. No one else
is noticing, but moving on, and I knew right there
(06:42):
my mom, she was my person and I literally later said,
you are funny as hell, like I need Yeah, totally,
But kissing compatibility give us your take and then we'll
tell you ours.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
And just some experiences that I've had no name. I
like starting with the good experiences. If you are on
the same like energy level with somebody, or you have
the same style of kissing, because it can.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
There's a wide range, you know, there is a wide range.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
But if you have the like the same kind of
I don't know, for lack of a better word, like
energy with kissing compatibility, it can just be really hot
and like lead to other things. Right, It's it's incredible
for a play. And on the flip side of that,
if you don't have that with somebody, or you feel
like they're not reciprocating what you're getting out bringing the energy,
(07:38):
it's a turnoff and it's like where is this gonna? How?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
How can this end?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
But what about also if they're too slow or too fast,
too fast, too fast, too fast.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Or like yeah, or too slow honestly, because I'm not
a super slow kisser, but I'm also not a super
fast one.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm like in between, you gotta have a mixture. Yeah,
why don't you show.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Us nor make out with your hand? Like in middle school?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Have you ever noticed this came to me the other
day and I said it out loud, which is somebody's
mouth is always the outside mouth, and someone's mouth is
usually the inside mouth. Wait what Yeah, And like what
I've noticed is that the person in power of the kiss,
like the person.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I've envisioned that far differently than what you were explaining.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Is okay, yeah, yeah, Like the lips are on.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Someone's lips on the outside. Okay, wait, kissing.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Don't tell it, don't don't mention this. But just like
in your future kisses, maybe to night ladies, in your
future kisses, notice who has the bigger It's almost like
when you come in, you know, when you come in
for a handshake and you come over the top. It's
like a power move. Dude, So it's kissing outside, like
(08:54):
if you're the bigger kisser, it's a.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Power would murder me if I shook hands like that.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Somebody has to be on top.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Somebody kind of does this and says I'm in charge.
The man does Well, you're the man. You want to
be the man or you want to be Okay, So
kissing compatibility is real. Yeah for me it is. Yeah,
So have you had a really bad kiss that you
are like, this is going no further. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I have multiple No, I wouldn't say multiple, but a handful,
(09:24):
let's say a handful.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I don't know, but it was like, okay, I don't
I'm not interested in taking this any further. WHOA like
if it's not this somebody I kissed out a bar
or something, and I was like, yeah, we're not going
home together.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
P s A.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You guys, if you kiss Robin, you better get it right.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
You better get it right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You better get it right. Guys. All right, So how
comfortable are you like telling us about your coming out story.
I'm pretty comfortable. Okay, let's hear it. Told it enough times.
Let's know.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Right, It's hard to know, like where to start because
it's a long it can be like drawn out, but
I'll start with saying I was clueless completely. I'm definitely
not somebody who knew I was gay and just didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Do anything about it. I was completely clueless.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And of course, in hindsight now there's signs or crushes
or whatever that I just didn't know didn't recognize at
the time for what they were. But I mean I
had an experience with someone, Okay, that was the first
time that I was questioning.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
I guess got curious, got curious.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
But even just leading up to that, there was definitely
something in my brain that was like drawing me to
this person, right, or.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Other people too, but like there was there had.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
To have been something there that I just wasn't able
to I wasn't self aware enough to identify, right, Yes,
But I became really curious when like a few a
couple of people I knew came out as bisexual, for instance,
and that was like the first time I was like whoa, Okay, like,
tell me more about that quick, how did this happen
and what did it feel like? And like, you know,
(11:09):
what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And then I had an experience with a friend and
at the time, like nothing really came of it. It
was like right before COVID, and I tried telling my
ex husband about it. At the time didn't go over
very well because were.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
You telling him because you had a guilty conscient I
was guilty. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
I came home from a trip and felt guilty and
was also like, holy shit, I'm attracted to women. But
even saying that was hard, but I said it like
in the same sentence basically, and he didn't take it
very well because in his mind it was like I
cheated on him, so nothing else mattered, nothing else, nothing
else that I had matter anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Can I butt in for a second and ask a question,
did you in your eyes did you think this is
less so cheating because it was a woman?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yes? I did, same.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, I don't know what it is about that I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
He even initially like that. Let's say the morning after.
I didn't feel guilty about it right away, and then
she was like, I feel guilty about this because.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
She she was with the man, and she like knew
knew him to an extent, so she felt guilty, and
I was like, oh shit, like I should probably feel guilty.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
I feel guilty.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
My like my like all the fireworks and confusion and
stuff was like was all I could think about. And
then when I got home, not no, not necessarily that,
it was more just like I was so confused and like,
what is happening in my life right now? Like all
of a sudden, so many other things that I'd kind
(12:48):
of kept under wraps, as far as like not being
happy in my marriage and just not feeling feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Like fulfilled by those like life.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Milestones that I was checking and I just I hadn't
felt that like fulfillment happiness that I expected from Like
I mean, I've heard both of you guys talk about
that before, like you're.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Checking off the baby, the house actly, and then.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It's like, what can we do with the house. Maybe
that'll change, right.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
And we had done those things and so yeah, it
didn't go over very well in the conversation that I
had with him about it, and then basically just like
didn't bring it up again for at least a couple
more years.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Wow, and I became it.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
This was like then during COVID, So we went through COVID,
had another baby.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Kind of easy to hide. It was easy to.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Hide because COVID was such a small world and I
wasn't seeing people other than my family and my neighbors.
And it was actually like a great and you're in
the throes of the babies with the babies, and so
it was like it was fine.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
I was.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Continuing to or like exploring, like watching queer content for instance,
like a show that stands out to me that I
watched by myself during COVID was feel good.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
With me and Martin.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Oh yeah, it's a good one.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, it was a really good show, and I like
recommended it to a bunch of friends, but at the
time wasn't like, yeah, and I'm gay. It just was like, wow,
I'm really like resonating with.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Were you fearful when you were recommending it to people, like,
oh God, are they going to be like, oh, she's
watching gay shit?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
No, not really because the people that I was sending
it to are like longtime friends who are all very I.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Was so scared to tell anyone I watched the L word.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
I didn't even know about the L word until another
like year later probably, and the like.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
In your face gay of course versus Wentworth. Oh, that's
another one.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
I watched Black Wentworth Feel Good. There was a show
on HBO that was like Gentleman Jack or something.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Only on first season or two.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But these were all shows with very prominent like the
whole storyline was like lesbian relationships. And I watched all
of these shows in like twenty.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Twenty, and your husband was not watching them, and he.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Wasn't watching them with me, did he know? No, I
was hiding it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Yeah, So it was like my way of kind of
getting to know I don't know, like trying to get
an understanding of like lesbians without still admitting to myself
that like maybe I was one.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah maybe I was. Like I feel like I did
that too, Like I have so many memories of like
watching Wentworth and being like extreme and.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Being like into it. We did watch There's the Christmas
Movie with.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Christ and Stewart Happy a season.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
He and I watched it together when it came out,
and like both really liked it. But while we were
watching it, I was like like side eyeing him, being.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Like, how's he reacting watching me? Or does he know?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Because because I had already like had his experience with
the friend of the time, So watching content together that
involved like lesbians hooking up was like I was like,
oh my god, I need to be like.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Don't react, don't get sport me. It's like watching it
with your mom at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So then like fast forward a couple of years, we
moved moved way out to the suburbs for a job
for him, and I hated living there, but I'm so
glad we did it because that was what I needed
to just like sit in.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
My loneliness honestly, Like it was.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Rough, and he and I went through like a really
rough period, but it was like what we needed to
wake me up. Mainly I started going to therapy. We
went to therapy a little bit together. It was like
the first time that I out loud said to like
my therapist and a couple of friends that I was
like unhappy, yeah, in my marriage and just with this
(16:37):
like new revelation that I was like really struggling with.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So hard to say that. It's so hard.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Even just to say like I'm attracted to women was
so hard out loud to people that had known me forever,
and the like one of the funny parts is that
these two friends in particular that I talked to about
it initially were like, yeah, we know, because we'd had conversations.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Over the years. But it was like they these games.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
They know, they knew I was unhappy and that I
was attracted to women. They're like, it's about time, but
you needed to be able to like say this for yourself,
and we're so happy that you're saying it now, and like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I do remember being in therapy a long time before
I said the words, and I kept thinking like, God,
I'm going to do it this time. I'm going to
tell her because I knew I was okay. Yeah, but
it's like I just couldn't bring myself and I was
like coming out to my therapist as I was coming
out to myself.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Honestly, I was like not okay with it. Not that
I was I felt like I was homophobic or anything
like that. I just was like, how can this possibly be?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I already made a married.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Man, I was gonna say, wrestling with me, Like what
now like being a failure in certain ways to the
outside of Like I'm married and people think I have
this great life with you know, ex kids, and like
I was checking on the box well, and it's it's
interesting to relate feeling like a failure because people do
(18:08):
act like being married as an accomplishment, you know, Like
I'll look at them, they were married for fifty years
and it's like, okay, but they were they happy? Did
they really enjoy each other for those entire fifty years?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Was it hard?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Like why did they get married to begin with?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Was it because they were so in love? Or was
it because like she was pregnant. She was pregnant and
it was time to get married?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
You know? Yeah, Like I think so too, and.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's also like how hard is it to accomplish that.
It's not like you go out and get a PhD. Congratulations,
can get married, you know, and can get married.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Divorce feels like a failure.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I mean, it just carried I think it's less so now,
but it used to carry such a stigma, like still
for me. Like I grew up in the nineties and
it was like, first of all, not that many people
were divorced in my community, but if they were, it
was because dad was an alcoholic or like maybe mom
or dad died and it was a really sad situation.
But it wasn't just like because it wasn't the right
(19:01):
thing and you mutually decided that you weren'ting to be
because the kids would be better off.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
The only divorces that I heard of when I was
a kid, it was like a fair situ Yeah, it
was always the.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Dad and the poor children. I always talk about sweet
Emily Taylor in my grade school. Then her parents got divorced.
I still remember my mom was like, everyone needs to
be so sweet to her. Her mom and dad got divorced.
This is horrible, poor Emily, this is terrible.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
One of my friends, Emily Taylor, his parents got divorced.
In his dad bottom and Nintendo and like a power
pad and a power glove, and I was like.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Fuck yeah, divorced. And I even remember after my divorce
when my rings, like I didn't have my rings, and
I remember and going to a store and being embarrassed
in front of these dipshit women that worked care that
I didn't have wedding rings.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
What did you do with your wedding rings?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I still have them.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I do too. Yeah, I don't know that I can.
I don't know I'm going to give I'll never give.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It a yeah. And then I like came out to
my ex round two. Uh, let's see. So remember that affair, Yeah,
I need we need to talk again, but this time
it was like, let's sit down and have a conversation.
And of course to start with that was like I'm
(20:22):
not straight and I know this now and I can't
unknow it. So we need to talk about the fact
that something.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Is going to have to change.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And it was still another year after that that we
finally moved in town where I live now.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
You moved to what I call the gay transition neighborhood
where people when they realized they're gay. I mean, thank god.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yeah, I moved here because my life is vastly different
now than how long were you living there when I
met you at Jean's for a durak, only a couple
of months, Okay, you had just gotten Yeah, like I
think you messaged me. I posted on my Instagram something
about being in Kirkwood and you messaged me like day
that I posted, and we're like, welcome to Kirkwood. Yeah,
we had met one other time. We met and you know,
(21:06):
let's get dinner. And it took a couple of months
before we actually did it. But yeah, it was like
two months. Maybe it was like the end of summer
when we got dinner. Yeah, and ever since then, basically
I see you every other weekend.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Every day. I see almost every day. We do a
lot of dog walking, but walking dogs. Robin cruises by
this window and make faces at me, flex me.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
One time I scared the ship out of your front
of me.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
That was that was a highlight for me. That was
a real highlight or not for me? Amazing, Yeah, No,
it's so, it's so, I'm so glad you moved here. Well,
the reason that I wanted you to come on is
because I think this is so interesting how people come
out and right when they come out, they're almost like
(21:53):
I don't want it's not weak, but it's like there's
a baby ness to them that's like almost.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
There's not and we're not talking baby birden'y.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That the other day what a baby bird was, but
we're not talking insecurity. It's an insecurity. It's like you're
not in your power yet, you're not in your authenticity yet.
So you're still kind of how we were with our catalysts.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, and with my catalyst, I was so I was
so like insecure.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
I was like she's ordering food, she's picking.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
The it's hanging out with an adult.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You're hanging out with a you don't know what you're doing.
You're just along for this ride. They're the ones setting
all the dates. You're you're waiting for the thing. Yeah,
and so it's like you do that for a minute,
and then you have more experiences and you everything kind
of we've said this, the job starts to get a
little better, you get more powerful or like we started
(22:44):
the podcast or you started doing comedy, like you come
into your own more and more and more in that
authenticity of like being true to yourself. And so I
think Robin is such a great example of that because
it's just like, little by little every time I'm i mean,
every couple of months, it's like I meet this new
Robin that is different than the original Robin. Yeah, so same,
(23:08):
Tell me how you see that?
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, I mean there's not necessarily like one pinpoint thing,
but just a culmination of time therapy for sure, community
people around me who bring me.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Joy and fulfillment in my life.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Experiences with women, like a variety of experiences like closeness
and emotions or physical relationships like further validation every time
I feel some kind of like connection with women.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And yeah, just it's kind of like.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I think, generally speaking, women feel best about themselves when
they're in like let's say their forties or their fifties,
or like I know who I am, I'm confident in myself,
I know where I am in my life. And I
was like floundering in my early thirties, was like holy shit,
where am I?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
What am I doing? And now I'm like fast tracked
to just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I just feel good in my skin now, Yeah, And
I never did before. I just always felt a little
bit out of place, a little insecure. I mean the
friends that have known me a really long time, even
on phone calls or especially in person, they're like, you
carry yourself differently now. I think I can hear from
your voice and like the way your body language that
(24:19):
you're happy, right you just seem at peace, and I am.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Like, it's just does your ex husband ever say anything
like you're different now? Or no? No, no, that was
probably painful to say. I feel. Yeah, I don't know.
Maybe some I don't know.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
I have hopes for some day us being able to
be in more of a place like that where we
can I don't know, have those kinds of conversations.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
But right now it's not like that. What about like
your work life, like how do you see have you
felt it in other areas? Not just like being out
in the gay community. Yeah, I mean with my work.
I mean, people know me know that.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
It's it's just not what defines me, like I've never
My work is fine and I'm happy with it, but
I'm just I don't care to be at the top
of anything. I'm just very content being like a highly
valued person who's really good at my job. And that's
really it. Like that's what's making me happy. But but
just in the last few months is the first time
(25:17):
in a long time that I have actually felt ready
to be like, I'm god, I need to I want
to ask for more.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Yeah, like I want more of this, I want more
of that. I want you know. And it's and it's
I mean.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It's definitely all related to just like my own I
don't know self confident confidence.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And I saw it too when you were moving into
your place.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
That was that was definitely a big transition because I
felt very in limbo for months after we had moved here,
before we actually started living separately. And then once we
were living separately, I had that freedom to just, i mean,
either be alone completely in the place and quiet in
(25:57):
my thoughts, or.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Be with people who I like being around, like.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You you are, like you know, and you guys are
doing the nesting thing right, Yes, can you talk more
about that, because I feel like some people haven't heard
too much success from it.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
So, yeah, we have a house that we share where
our kids stay, and then we have an apartment really
close by that's just a small place that we rotate
in and out of, so the kids are always at
the house one of us is always there with them
and we take turns basically being there or at the apartment,
and it's the apartment right now is it.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Feels like a hotel a little bit, and I just
like that. It's like such a calm, easy place. Yeah,
it's temporary.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
I don't want it that forever, but right now, just
like in this season, for lack of a non cliche word,
it just is a great in between place when I'm
not with the kids, to just be able to like
fully work on you unlined and work on me, or
like have the freedom to do things if I want
to do things, or when you.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Were that's the place, I mean when you were moving
in there, like I remember like Robin's like carrying heavy
ass shit like up to the apartment. But also like
such a testament to the community because she would put
out like a text like dude, I have a really
heavy thing. Who can meet me, And there'd be like
immediately like people like we're coming, let's come help you
get the shit inside.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Definitely, those were moments for me on top of walking
Mandy Yeppy birthday Mandy like hours and hours of walking
with her or I mean she helped me a lot.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
You helped me.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Christine helped me, Lindsay helped me, like so many different
people stepped up physically when I needed shit help getting
things out there, And I mean it was a testament
to the people that I'm surrounding myself with that like
they're going to be there for me.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, And that.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Is such a huge part of how I was able,
I think, to get through a really hard time, like
it can be alone.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
That but I never really felt lonely. I always felt
like at peace with it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
It's also really hard to during that time to even
spend time any time alone.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, you know, it was.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It's much easier now we're like six months in. It's
so much easier now than it was the first month.
I remember texting like probably Mandy and Ally and Lindsay
one Saturday when like I didn't have any plans and
none of they all had plans, and I.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Was like, God, what am I going to do all day?
It was not easy. It really wasn't easy.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
But now I can do that, and it's like I
have I want to have nights when I'm there during
the week, especially with no plans, like I just want
to be chill, reading or watching a show and like
going bed, like getting sleep, and just like recovering and resting.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I do recall that feeling of like not having plans,
and I remember being nesting. I was in downtown Decatur
at an apartment just like yours, and I was alone
for like what felt like one of the first times,
like and I remember being tear of like I have
this whole night. This is a weekend night, I'm alone,
and I ended up like walking to random Ted's Montana
girl picking up a salad. I came home and I
(29:10):
sat on the floor in front of the TV, and
I realized, like I'm fucking happy, like if something hit
me that, I'm like, I'm internally I feel so good
right now. I'm about to eat this delicious meal. I'm
like going to get a great night's sleep. I'm through
the hard part of like the actual separation. And I
remember feeling like, wow, this is like a milestone. Yeah
(29:31):
you know, yeah, and I'd say you're definitely there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
And I mean in other ways too, like we've talked
about just feeling I don't know, like just more authentic
to myself and like more powerful in my ability to
like take charge of a situation.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Like ordering drinks or you know, there's just times when.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I like you guys both said with your catalyst, like
for sure, also with mine, Like in the earlier days
of like any kind of relationship that we have, it
was like, Okay, she's controlling every interaction, and I'm just
like I didn't feel like I could be that person
for a lot of reasons. But now, you know, it's
such a different table and like so many different and
(30:18):
so many different, like I don't know relationships, whether it's
friendships or like romantic things or physical things. It's like
it's just very different now. Just I feel good about
myself now, so I can speak up for the things
that I want.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Right, you know, talk about I don't if you don't
want to or you don't have to. But like dating,
like you've gone on some dates, like you're out there,
like talk about that a little bit, like what is
that like? And then also like you're showing up, you know,
newly kind of in this new role. Sometimes you're dating
women that have been out a long time. Sometimes other
are new, Like what talk about that? Like dynamic when
(30:54):
you show up at like a dinner.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah, I mean I my experience is kind of limited
as far as like actually dating people, But I have
been on dates and have had, like like I said,
various like connections with people, and I definitely can tell
a difference between if I go on a date with
someone and I just don't feel anything like they can
be a perfectly cool person, attractive, we can have a
(31:18):
good conversation, but if I don't feel like a draw.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
To them, the kiss tests, yeah we have to go
I don't even have to go there.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, then it's like it's a that's okay. Right now,
I feel no pressure on myself to be dating somebody
like a zero. I'm very content with where I am
right now, and I feel like hopefully that's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
But yeah, I mean in other ways, like I've definitely
felt drawn to people, and I mean I'm single, so
nothing has you know, gone super well.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
No, I don't think I think you should be.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Saying, yeah, I'm just I'm thankful for the experiences that
I have had as far as like I know that
I know that I can feel that like really good
emotional connection to something, even if it doesn't go the
way that I wanted to, I'm still grateful for that feeling.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Like I'm happy to be to be able to feel
that for someone for sure. I mean, I've known some
weekends where you've had like two things happening. So I
don't can I tell the story? There was like a
funny story. You we can cut this out if you
don't want. But the date Robin had this, she'd like
(32:33):
had talked to this woman and then she's like, Robin's
like barely replying, like days are going by, she's not
replying to this woman. And finally the woman's like, you
know what, like you are bringing zero in. It was
very funny. But then you did and you guys had
a great time. Yeah, then I did.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
I was like, you know what, You're right, and I'm
sorry about that, but like but I was like, I
didn't know that that's what you wanted.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
You're interested. I hadn't.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Well, to be fair, I hadn't even met this person yet.
So for me, it was like maybe if we meet
and there's a connection, then yes, like I know myself
to be bringing the energy. But I was like, okay, fair,
like thank you for letting me know, and I did.
I changed it and then we had a date and
then it went really well, like we had a great time,
(33:25):
but there were some there were some drawbacks for me
that made it so that I was not feeling it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And we were supposed to have a second date and
then again she was like, I can tell you're not
that into this, so we probably.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Shouldn't have we get her.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I was like, you're or so right, and I was,
and I that is how I'm feeling. I'm like, I
wasn't in a headspace at the time to be interested
in anyone.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I didn't think.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
So I told her that and she was like, yeah,
I mean, I appreciate you saying that, Like it was
really great to meet you and it was good terms.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, that's It's such a nice, nice thing to do
for someone, like from both parties that I feel like
doesn't happen enough. And I've been watching Love on the
Spectrum on Netflix and one of the things I love
that these people are so purest honest.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
They're just not help How do you go with that though,
when you're hearing all these messages of like also, like
some people talk about like immediately I should feel something,
but then there's a lot of other people who are
like it takes while.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
To like, yeah, I don't know in TBD for me,
but I feel like, just based on some of the
experiences that I've had, I need I do need a
little bit of a build up and like an emotional
connection with someone for other things to like work out
that and but yeah, going back to like the point
of having honesty and like open communication, I was incapable
(34:46):
of that eight months ago because I was so insecure
and I was like, well, but I want this person
to like me, so I'm not going to say the
thing because I'm worried of how they'll react to it.
And now I'm like, I'm going to say it because
it's how I feel and it's hot and if they
act badly, then that's on them. That's not only Yeah, yeah,
and better to know and better to know and like
(35:06):
and it typically just has gone over well, like I'm
so glad you said that, and I'm on the same
page or whatever, like whatever the outcome, it is just
generally appreciated.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
When you have the ability to just speak up for
what you feel and what you want. I agree totally, yeah,
And I think you're right like about like you do
have to have some kind of emotional connection and sometimes
it does happen very quickly. Melissa and I both had
experiences that have happened right away where it's like I
want to be with this person within fifteen seconds, and
then we've had other experiences where it's like takes a
(35:39):
minute to kind of feel the way you're supposed to feel.
Part we aren't baby birds anymore, and.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Now I'm so skeptical.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I'm like, nah, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I feel like we all want and appreciate that like
instantaneous yeah, ry fun And is that realistic for like
longer term. I don't know, like yeah, because you're not
always going to have that instant like I want to
be on this person right now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, or just I want to talk to them all
about I can't stop thinking about them.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I can't stop talking to them. I don't know everything
about them. I mean, of course you want all of
those things to be true, but it's just, yeah, it
doesn't always happen immediately, no.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
So I think it's like figuring out what how long
do you give it until you're like, okay, this is
like we're friends, yeah, you know, And I don't know
the answer of that. Yeah. I think it's a hard
like you have to meet a lot of women and
like go on dates like you're doing to kind of
feel the feelings. Yeah, Like there's been plenty of times
Melissa would go on dates and then report back like
(36:41):
I don't know, like you try.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
And maybe I'd hang out a second time. Yeah, you know,
but it's kind of like if it's not there the
second time, yeah, like you need to.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Just I've had a couple of those two and again
it's like people who I I you know, they're cute
and they're ye oh, I enjoyed spending time with them,
But then I I haven't really had the feeling of
like I really want to know what they're doing right now.
I think about them when I wake up. I feel
like that's an indicator for me. Is like I'm thinking
about you when I wake up. So true is like
(37:13):
I'm into you?
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, I totally agree. How do you though, do the
thing where you're like not immediately like two women, it's
easy just to be friends. We've spent our whole life
cultivating friendships with women. I have women mom groups, I
have friends at the kids' school. It's like it's your
friends with women. Yeah, So then it's like now I'm
changing to Okay, I've got to show up and kind
of make you think I'm interested in you, which is
(37:35):
like a complete different thing than what I've done my
whole life. What does that look like? Like? How do
you show up at the date and like we're not
here to be friends? I mean it's.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Little things like eye contact, long eye contact, maybe like
you know, touching their knee under the whoah, or I
don't know, like really focusing in on what they're saying.
I mean it's just like attentive I think for me
at least, Yeah, yeah, remembering what they said and asking
them about it, like just paying attention to them.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And you would do that with you in the eye
contact is more yeah, more friendly? How about you? How
do you do it? Melissa?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
I have no idea because Melissa, you you could be
like you could.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Be sitting on Melissa's lap and She's like there was
nowhere to sit Like I don't get it. I don't
get it. Do you think she likes me? Do you
think she likes you? Do we do? It's true, Let's
be honest. I have a lot to learn.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I mean I'm not I'm no expert, but just again,
those are kind of like instinctual things.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, do you feel like though it's harder with women,
Like it's more there's more at stake, Like if they
don't like me and I make a play for it.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
It's yeah, there's more at stake, just because it's the
people you actually are meant to be with, not that person,
but just women, whereas with men, like I was never pursuing. No,
I was definitely being pursued.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
I was never flex I mean, yeah, she's not even
backing down. I yes, I was.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I have one more question before we wrap. How has
your ex husband handled everything? I mean, from going from
like you know, having to admit to him that you
would cheated to where you guys are today.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I mean, honestly, really well. It took time for him
to kind of get past like the hurt of you know,
the cheating thing, but or just we just didn't.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Talk about it for a long time.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
But he's always been since coming out to him like
for real, for real, as like I'm not straight, and
then eventually like I'm a lesbian.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know, we can't be married anymore.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
He's been very supportive of me in that way. It
was really hard for him to accept the fact that,
like we need to get divorced, mostly because we have
three kids and the logistics of that are really hard.
And I mean there's no sugarcoating the fact that it's
hard to be like by yourself with.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Kids, so parenting.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Uh. It was just kind of something you know, he
had to accept and come to terms with.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And I mean now, definitely, with.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Six months or so under under our belt of being
being separated, he's getting a better handle on it, I
would say, But I mean it's it's I'm having an
easier time of it.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I would say, just yeah, there's was there anything specific
that you said to him that like clicked a little
bit with kind of him understanding like why you don't
need to be married anymore? Because I think so many
men are like they bargain, you know, they do like
what can we how can we can.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Make this work?
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, and you believe that at the beginning, Yeah, absolutely
did I did.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yeah, not necessarily one thing. I definitely the whole process,
like every step of kind of undoing our family dynamics
and things like that was like me leading the way
and me, you know, trying to have these conversations with him.
At one point, I said if we were getting divorced
for any other reason, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
You would ask me to like stay together.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Yeah, but like we're not right for each other and
you deserve to be happy just as much as I do,
and to have that from a partner. And even that
he had a hard time hearing.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
But I think that.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
Was kind of an like he was like, yeah, I
mean I understand, yeah, right. One thing he said was
like I don't want to be the person who holds
you back.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Oh wow, damn. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
And also I think for both people it's like it's
it's hard to start over. And I think with them
they're like, well, I found the woman I want to be.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
They made their lives.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Now I got to do this all over again, and
like I really loved you and we have.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
These kids, and I'm not used to doing it by myself.
It's heartbreaking obviously for so many reasons. And it's exciting, excited, wonderful, and.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Yeah, there's definitely the guilt that I carry or I
don't not really anymore because I know with certainty it
was the right thing to do, but just that exact thing,
like I know that on the other side of this,
I have this whole new part of my life that
I'm going to be unfolding and exploring and being excited about.
(42:23):
And it's just different for the ex husband. So I've
tried totally different.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, but they do grow into I think you eventually
get a little excited.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, you get excited. They realize that's that they have
a whole new exciting chapter.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, you know, I think it is. I think it
is harder for them to see that though, too. Yeah,
I mean we've had we also have had more time
to process.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
I feel like that's next thought.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I was so far ahead in my processing than he was,
so I've always kind of tried to give him time
to process. That's very knowing that I've had so much
more time ahead of him to come to terms with
everything and then get to the point where I was like, Okay,
here's this thing, here's the next step in this that
(43:10):
I'm ready to take, and I'm ready for it now
or you know, very soon, And for him it was
always kind of like a shock, which at some point
you're like, Okay, this shouldn't be in a shock anymore,
Like come on, dude, I mean yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
But you guys are in a good place now you
had your your kid's birthday party last week. I'm assuming
he was there.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yeah, his whole family was there. I mean it's it's
i think, as good as it could.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Be right now.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah that's good.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah that's amazing. Yeah, well, thank you so much for
coming on. We're so glad that you're like in our squad,
like you had crazy value. Yes, I mean you know,
I mean that you're funny as hell, You're smart, You're
fun to talk to.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Like, I've she's got killer dance moves.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
He's got that. Literally, I've got it on video. I've
got it on video. I'm like, look at this girl,
not the only one who has it.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Really, let me know that.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
At the lake, she's like I was alone in the
bathroom dancing.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
I like to dance, and this is something my friends
also know about me. I get drunk especially, and I
will get up on a stage by myself and just
feel it.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I like to dance on some small stage. I don't
have great moves.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
I'm not like doing specific things.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I'm just I'm just vibing, you know. I felt I
saw some vibes with Robin. What car is that that
we were dancing at the basement. Yeah, that was very fun.
That was so much fun. Yeah, so thank you a
million times for coming on. I'm glad. I'm just trying
to think of a really gross would you rather but
(44:45):
that I knew Melissa would edit it out because it
would be.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
We will be canceled.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
We will be canceled.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
What we're gonna say is, listen, guys, we have merch
on the website. We were hoping everyone will take a
look for spring. Get a hat, get a T shirt,
kill her stuff that we handpicked.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yes, and I'm going to spring something on you right now.
I want our listeners to respond to. Okay, shit if
last summer I went to June or to Pride in
Denver in June, and I wore a shirt that said
feed me to the Lesbian.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And when I tell you that, people stopped me constantly
and said where did you get that?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Ship?
Speaker 2 (45:25):
So I have wanted to sell a feed me to
the Lesbian shirt, And so I want to know what
do people think?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
She wants a shirt, guys, just to keep this on
the to keep it real. She also wants to wear
a scissoring shirt.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
It's your son's field day shirt.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
It's like a gang sign that looks like scissoring. It
looks like it does look like scissoring, and we might
be selling those. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
It's a little subtle, you know, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So but yeah, we've.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Got really great stuff on there too. Yeah, it's style stuff.
It's not like you're ordering some crummy, shitty.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Oh it's a cool hat. And if you wear it
and take a picture of yourself, post it and tag us,
we will repost it. Please please please order merch. Yes,
all right, guys, bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate us
and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali
A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.