June 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Is JoJo Siwa done with the wlw life? Alli and Melisa chat about sexual fluidity and how sexuality can shift and evole over time
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh my gosh, that's pretty good, my friends. Yeah, a
long time had you just made that up on the fly?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh my god, totally on the fly.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What can I say? I'm I'm an improviser.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
You know they are? You really are? We shot on
one of our episodes. You just made me think about it.
Not do improv but do like sometimes with my kids,
I do we role play, like out a scenario, Like
we'll do role playing sometimes in these like topics, we
should roll play out some stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh my god, that would be hilarious.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Be hilarious. All right, Well, let's get after it. Let's
get after because I know my friend's in a hurry.
But actually, before we get after it, can I tell
everybody check out our website Lesbian Chronicles podcast dot com.
We have so much great merch on there. People are
buying hats right and left, they're buying t shirts right
and left. Please check it out, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And also want to plug Second Friday coming up on
June thirteenth. We're doing an open mic. It's the Pride
party Pride month June. Now Atlanta does Pride in October,
but Second Friday we'll still do like a little Pride party,
and so we're doing a comedy show beforehand open mic,
(01:53):
So that's before the actual Second Friday party, and your
ticket to Second Friday gets you into the show too.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So which Ali's Ali's going to be performing.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Alli's going to be performing. We've got some really good
people signed up already. So I think it's going to
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Actually, it's gonna be a whole lot of fun. Was
you and I was Pride party in June last year?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Or October? Was October?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay? Got it? It just felt so warm outside, it
was warm that night.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Okay, But that's that's kind of like the great part
about Atlanta Pride being in October is that it's so nice.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, it's corgeous.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So I yeah, I think one year it rained though,
that's kind of sucked, But yeah, I do appreciate that
their Pride is in October because Denver Pride last year
in June was so hot.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And now can you imagine, I mean, Atlanta June July
is pretty brutal.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Ter Yeah, although not lately, dude, this weather is wild.
I'm like, this is the first week that the kids
are out of school and it's rained every day. We
had another goddamn tornade warning the other day, Like, I
can't this is probably the tenth one I've had since
I moved in this house.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I know, do you know it does? I? Well, you
guys know that I do a sound machine, a tsunami
level volume, tsunami level thunder. My sound machine sounds like
we're in the middle of a torrential problem, like take
take cover, But that's the sound machine. But the other
night it was pouring so hard that it was like trumping.
My sound machine really sounds.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So are you ever worried that you're gonna like, yeah, no,
totally worried.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But I just there's something about just horrific rain that
like really puts me to sleep and puts my mind.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
No, it's fantastic I mean really like on a when
it's normal rain, you know, there's no threat of tornadoes.
Me and my kids are just like this is magical.
Like I love the sound of it. I want to
fall into to it. I also will like open my
the blinds so that I can like have a nice view. Yeah,
like I love to watch the storm roll in. It's
(04:03):
so it's just such a cool like thing.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I agree. So I love it too, And yeah, we're
getting a lot of it lately.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
What's not a cool thing is that our little friend
Jojo Seawall is rolled back on her lesbianism.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I know, what did you don't have to roll it back,
I can't. She just be by and now she's okay.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So let me give the rundown for those of you
who are not actively on tap you.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, because you know I'm not following any of the shows.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
No, So, Jojo came out as a lesbian, although I've
heard some people say that she said she was pan,
so I don't know if she fully declared lesbian, but
she was very much in the woman loving wed apartments,
had a few relationships with women. They all seemed kind
of tumultuous, not gonna lie, kind of toxic. But she
(04:49):
goes on Big Brother, which I've never watched in my
entire life. I really don't understand the premise outside of like,
you don't have contact with the outside world and you're
in this house with other like low key celebrities.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, I would die in that environment.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Same, And so all they have to do is like
hang out with each other.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And during the show, she starts connecting with this guy.
I think his name's we'll call him Chris. I can't
even remember his name right now, but I think it's Chris.
He's like some celebrity in the UK. I don't know,
really know how he's famous outside of like maybe a
reality show. But they start like connecting. Meanwhile, Jojo has
a girlfriend who's watching all this play out because this
(05:33):
show like is live and.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wait, doesn't she know the girlfriend's watching? Yeah, this is
weirdo world. That's what I call weirdo where I.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Mean, so she's not like hooking up with him, but
they are getting very close. It's very obvious that something's
at play, and so the show ends, Jojo immediately breaks
up with the girl and then like days later is
now dating this man.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, there's a big age.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Not big, but it's is how big. Listen, JoJo's like
twenty twenty one years she's twenty one years old. This
guy's thirty two.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Okay to me, that's when they're younger, Like yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure, when.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
You're younger, it's different. So anyway, they're dating now and
now Jojo, everybody's kind of like, what the fuck, dude, like,
which you're okay, yeah. And then there's another creator on TikTok,
I won't. I don't really know her story outside of that,
she has now said that she's no longer a lesbian
because she's discovered her Christianity and she's loyal to God. Whatever.
(06:42):
So my whole thing with these two cases.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Cases cases is cases of like it sounds like a
sickness or something.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I know, I know, but I feel like I can
see how it's confusing to people in the gay community
who have felt some pressure at some point, especially those
of us that are late in life to be in
a heteronormative relationship right right, And also the fear that
(07:13):
we hear from a lot of people that email us
all the time and say, what if, like this is
a phase, what if I want to go back to men.
And I understand that fear because it's like, Okay, it's
something that I like. The way that I see it
is it's something I desired prior to having the knowledge
of who I truly was right.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
But do you ever think, like I remember saying to
doctor Jamie, what if I decide that I'm not gay?
And like, now here I am and i'm And she
she said, what if?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
What if?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And but but what I said back was what if
I will have just sold my house, blew up my life,
left my husband, my kids now have a divorce mom
and dad. Like the stakes felt so high to be
wrong that I get it. Like to me, it's like
I get the price of admission is hard, but I
don't understand why if we're all buying into and I am,
(08:07):
I'm one of those people buying into sexual fluidity and
that it can shift and change and that maybe you're
by or maybe I'm a lesbian, but maybe I meet
this great guy who brings out something in me that
makes me attracted to him, Like are we not allowing
people that? Does that feel too threatening?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Exactly? And that's that's the other side of the argument here, Okay,
and the other side that I see too, is JoJo's
twenty one. That's really young.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh my god, that's Tatum, that's a child.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah. And the thing is, I don't think I could
have solidly declared my sexuality in my teens or twenties, like,
because there's so many other factors at play. You really
don't know yourself yet. You know, there's there's societal pressures
at play, and I think that's a lot of like
what she's dealing with. I think a lot of people
(09:01):
her age are You're trying to find your place in
the world. And I think for Jojo that was true
for her during that time, and I think this is
true for her now.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It isn't that. What we're all fighting for is feminists
to say you get to choose, you can choose whatever
you want to do, Like why, to me, that is
what we're fighting for.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, And as a twenty one year old, maybe prior
to this, she had not met a man that was
compelling to her right, and now she has and so
now she can be bisexual and that's totally fine. And
I think, you know, fast forward to our demographic of
people who are coming out later and that are worried
about things shifting back. My whole thing is I feel
(09:47):
like solid in my decision in that I know myself
far better than I did when I was twenty one
years old. I know what I want, I know what
I like. I also have the past experience of being
with men, yeah, and having that to compare to what
I have now.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I think that's so true. Like if you are somebody
who's listening to the show and you haven't come out
yet and you haven't left your marriage because you're scared
of what if I changed my mind. I'm not going
to leave this man and these children, or I'm not
gonna get divorced because what if I changed my mind.
I think it's such a fair thing. Like you said too,
if you haven't, you know, you've only had vanilla ice cream.
(10:28):
It's it's really hard to know what you like better
until you've had chocolate ice cream, and then you can
like have both, have a mix, have lots of things,
and then come up with Wow, you know what, I
really do feel like I'm more satisfied with this other
thing or not, or maybe you're not down ten years
down the road. I'm like you though, Like once I
(10:50):
had the experience of both. I'm becoming more and more
queer every year, like I'm more gay now. Somebody even
said to me the other day, They're like, you look
so mask right now. No, nobody would have said that
to me two years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And how did you feel when you heard that?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Awesome? Yeah, and a few years ago would have felt
kind of offensive.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, but now I'd be like, oh great.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, thanks, Yeah, it's working. But I wasn't even trying to, like,
I'm sure I just wore what I wore that day
that felt comfortable, which is typical. But I think, like, yeah,
I think you just you evolve into yourself. At this
stage in my life, I have no attraction whatsoever to
men on that level ever, And I think about I
(11:32):
spent time recently with a woman from our group who
were both still very good friends with. She ended up
marrying a man, and she would say she still has
attraction to women, but she loves this man and she's
very satisfied physically, emotionally, all the things with this man.
(11:52):
And she has had both. So it's you know, to me,
it's like, I don't know, like knowledge is power, and
if you're in a marriage thinking you're gay and thinking
I can't leave because what if I think my advice
would be that you need to explore all these sides
of yourself so that you don't end up in a
situation where you're like why didn't I, or like I
never tried this thing to me? That would be the tragedy, right.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And that's another thing that I think about, is what
if I had just been like, you know what, Yes,
I think I'm interested in women, but it's it's I
don't want to move forward. I need to stay where
I am. I need to raise these kids and not
and not hurt my husband and just kind of like
take one for the team, you know, and play team.
(12:38):
But I think about myself in that situation, and I
can feel how weighed down I would feel. I know
that I would be carrying this sadness around in me
of this life that's unlived.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Same do you ever think, though, like Melissa, like when
we were coming out, there were like things like I
might like have a ranking of like things that are
very important to me, Ali vccaro, And like in my
marriage when I was leaving, I might have ranked you know,
my children. You know I don't there well being first,
maybe my sexuality at that you know, early on when
(13:14):
my kids were little, maybe fifth or sixth, like, it
just wasn't that big of a priority, my fan. You know,
you rank all the money, finances, all these things get ranked.
But as you like get older, and every year, like
my rankings would kind of shift. My kids were getting bigger,
they became more self sufficient, like things shifted, and I
would say it wasn't until after read was preschool, my
(13:37):
littlest that I sort of was like, this is getting
fucking louder and louder, Like this ranking is moving and
moving up and up and up, and now it's like
number one, and it's all I fucking think about. It's
like the volume is turned up all the time on
this sexuality piece of my life that got so loud
when it was quieter before. And so it's like that
(13:58):
became the priority for me in a way that it wasn't,
you know, when I was thirty two. It became loud
at thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine, getting louder, like
it just kind of kept getting louder. And I wonder too,
if sometimes you're just not ready to do the thing
because you've got other priorities that are bigger. I mean,
there was women in group that said, I don't want
(14:20):
to have a life that my husband is not there
every night helping these kids with their homework. I mean,
do you remember that woman where she's like, I need
him in the house. Yeah, Like, I know I do.
I'm working too much. I've got all the shit going on.
It's not worth it to me, right, And that's fucking
fair as hell, it is.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
One hundred percent. Yeah, And I think that that space
needs to be honored because really it is something that, like,
you know, maybe at that time in her life, that
was the thing that needed to be prioritized. I mean
it's kind of like what I'm still experiencing today of
like I don't want to live in this suburb. Yeah,
(14:58):
I want to live in the city my friends, right,
you know, I want to go live my life twenty
four to seven the way that I want to. But
I have two kids and their needs matter more.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Than mine today today, yep, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I know that that's not going to always be the case.
They're growing by the day, and I was telling them
the other day, I'm like, you know, my daughter, Kaitlin,
I was like, in six years, you're out of here
and she's like, no, that's a long time, and I'm like,
it's a long time from your perspective. I've been around
(15:36):
for forty four years. Those six years are going to
blow so fast. And to me, as much as it
sucks to live down here where, you know, Okay, I
love my house. Well, I'll give it that. I love
the community, that it's quiet, and my kids go to
grade schools, all those things, But I also know the
life that I want to live and it's still not
(15:58):
even quite there yet because of the priorities that I
have to put forth right now right. And it's different
for others.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
It's different for every single first for everyone, it has
a lot. I mean, there's so many factors at play.
It's how much help do you have? It's your money,
it's your time, it's your does your mom live close
and can help you? It's there's so many things at play.
Like I just group was so good for me in
that and that it opened my mind because I was
such a douche at the beginning where I'm like, you
(16:27):
got to be authentic, you got to come out. No
you don't, you don't.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I think that's a good point too, is like
if you want to explore this side of yourself. And
I know I understand that oftentimes it's really difficult if
you're married and you know he's not willing to like
kind of open that door for you. That's a tough spot.
But you, even if you get the divorce, you don't
have to come out and publicly declare your queerness. No.
(16:55):
I never did, and you never did. I did it
because of how alone I felt in that time, and
I was like I need to put this out there,
that this is a thing, you know, like there was
so few and far between of what stories I could find.
I was just like I knew I had a way
to talk outlet for it. Yep. So but you don't
(17:16):
have to do that, and you don't have to be
like I. You know, a queer is such a great
term for people because I feel like it covers all
the bases, right. You could be by, you can be pan,
you can be a lesbian, whatever. And so if someone
asks you, that's what you say.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
We have two people in our friend group that are
queer who are dating men.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, So I just I, yeah, I think there's so
many shades of gay.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
It's okay. Oh my gosh, my dog got excited because
I breathed.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But there's so many shades of gay that I think, like,
you can show up any way, And I do think
that the group represented people at all, all different stages
of gay. That woman would come every week to group.
She was never leaving her husband ever, Like maybe she
has by now seven years later, but I kind of
doubt it, And she was very clear about it, like I,
(18:13):
you know, maybe I'll get a girlfriend at some point,
but right now I am with this man and that's
going to be my life.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Sometimes too, It just takes time to get the hope,
for the hope of getting excited about a woman to
overcome the fear of leaving.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And I think, you know, someone who's twenty one is
operating in a very different place than someone who's forty one. True,
and you're free to change your mind. I tell my
kids that all the time. You know, you can. You
can like your ice cream thing. You can like vanilla
ice cream today. You might decide you only like chocolate tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah. I think I've said this before. My sister. I
remember when we were we both had kids who played sports,
and she would like let her kids quit stuff like
all the time, Like they might play half a season
and quit, and I would might. Parents would always be like,
you can't make him finish. She's got to finish, and
my sister would be like no, like and I remember
it being like I sort of thought my parents were right,
(19:08):
like he should finish, and then later I was like,
it is she taught them such a valuable lesson of
like I'm not enjoying this. I'm quitting, like I've given
it a chance, I don't want to do it. It
was almost like the ultimate pivot, like I'm gonna leave.
And I mean that same kid is now graduating from
medical school, is very successful, is finished obviously something amazing,
(19:31):
and didn't suffer at all. Like in some ways, she's
pretty fucking powerful. I mean, she does what she wants
on her terms. She didn't waste time doing a whole
season of something she hated. And I remember, like, I
don't know. That was a lesson too that I learned
watching my older sister raise kids, is like these kids
have agency and I'm not here to make them do
(19:51):
things that they've signed up for. They've got to sleep
in their bed because they made the bed. It's like
if you don't like it, like, you can change. You
don't have to eat vanilla forever.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Although I don't know, this is reminding me of when
I my first job out of college. I was a reporter.
I went into that job not knowing what in the
fuck I was doing, and I hated it. I fucking
hated it. Every day. I woke up with anxiety. I
was terrified. I didn't I worked with people who I
(20:22):
didn't like. Oh, and I wanted to quit at a
fucking day, but I was under contract. I could not.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So then you can't. Yeah, sometimes you can't quit.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
But the thing is, had I quit and just run
back home to my mom and dad, I wouldn't have
the career that I ended up having, right, you know.
So there are times where it's like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
If you're just stick it out for a higher purpose,
I think, yeah, But I think, like so many times,
women are taught to just suffer through, suffer through, well, yeah,
don't change, changing your major. They make people feel feel
so bad. It's like, if you're in London, it's like
these are children.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, it's just like they have to learn the pivot
is the ultimate life's happiness. Yeah, it's like, if you
can't do that, you're going to be stuck in a
lot of rooms you don't want to be in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I agree, and I that kind of Yeah. I had
a friend in college who did the entire course load
degree in journalism and she didn't do an intern and
then just didn't get her diploma. Oh shit, and pivoted
entirely and went to a different career.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Okay, cool, So she did pivot.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
She did pivot, and she had to go back to school.
But I think she just realized this job, this career
is not for me.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That's it, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And I think she made the right choice. I think
what she went into she's far better suited for. And
I would have been terrified to have done a move
like that. My dad would have murdered me. Oh.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
My parents were like every time my sister would let
these kids quit stuff, it would just be like, I
can't believe your sister's letting them quit again, And I'm like, dude,
But now, like the proof is kind of in the pudding, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think sometimes it's warranted. Yeah, and sometimes your gut
is telling you I don't belong in this space.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, how often does that happen. Is this happens to
me some and I'm pretty like you can put me
almost anywhere, but there are some times that I am
in rooms where I'm like, I do not belong here. Yeah,
Like I can feel there's like almost like a darkness
that I'm feeling in this space. These people probably feel
like a million bucks, but these aren't my people. Does
(22:31):
that happen to you as a grown adult?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I would say I feel it sometimes, like at events
mainly around here in the suburbs, or like that I
just I know I'm the odd one in the room,
or like that I'm standing out because I'm not dressed
in the Lily Pulitzer dress.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You know, I've got the hat on that kind of thing.
But also just like you know that it's one of
those gut feelings that I started to have towards the
end of my marriage, when I was trying to decide
do we stick this out? You know, what path do
we take? Do we separate? And I remember in my
gut just feeling like this doesn't feel right to me.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Anymore, It's not congruent with my life.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah. Yeah, and like I know that, like I know
that the stage sucks, and I know that we're having
to make some really sad and hard decisions. Yeah, but
I know that there's this person inside of me that
is not living. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It's the ultimate pivot, right, Yeah, like it's it's the
ultimate pivot.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I don't remember ever being worried though, that I was
going to go back.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I don't really either. The only time I do actually
early on, I don't remember if it was right before
our divorce or right after our divorce, when we were
both like so emotionally sad. I remember thinking like, ugh,
this is isn't too late. And at that point, I
think my catalyst was being super scary and I was
feeling all kinds of like volatility there and he felt
(23:54):
like the safe, sweet option and she felt like the
dark side. It was like you have an angel and
a devil and your shoulder. Yeah, And I remember thinking like,
I can't believe I sold out the angel with the
safe anger and the port in the storm for what
I'm seeing on this other side terrified me.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
But I think at the same time, your gut knows
what direction needed to go.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, and neither is true, Like how often do you
do that where it's like two choices. I've got to
choose between this and this, And the truth is there's
a thousand choices. Like I think when we were leaving,
it was like our catalyst or our marriage. Yeah, and
it's like that's not really even the choice. That's not
what you're choosing between.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, And I think for so many of us, the
catalyst just is the safe space in that moment, their
gay space.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I wouldn't even say save, I would say space.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
But it's kind of like you're, you know, the life
the lifeboat, the.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You're trying to break into this world.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, it's like a little bridge that you need to have, yep,
to kind of feel safe in that moment. But I think, yeah,
deep down I knew this was not my forever.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah do you think you did? Like I don't know
whether I did eventually obviously, but like at the beginning,
I feel like I was pretty invested in that. I was.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I was for a while, But then the more that
I uncovered and was like, I've been in in a
marriage for or a relationship for fourteen years, and we
never argued like this, this kind of shit never came up.
Like I knew it was unhealthy. Yeah, I knew it
wasn't a forever thing. Yeah, so, but I wanted it
(25:36):
to be initially. Yeah. Now who doesn't And.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's like they have all this their reasons for the
arguing are like, well you're still married or like I'm like,
they have these reasons that are valid for being upset,
but it's just like, ah, like it was just That's
another reason why I think it's so much better if
you can to wait to date until your divorce is
over one hundred percent. Yeah, it just eats so many issues,
(26:02):
it really does. But nobody waits, like I get it.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I mean some people do, do they? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
People we know? Yeah Meredith did, Yeah, I guess she did.
So Molena did, Melena did. She's always my one that
I'm like Melena and she's still with her partner, like
I know. Yeah, there's a healthiness to that.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah. Well she did have a little bumpy road at
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, I guess we all. You almost have to.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Everybody has to cry at the bar at some point.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah. Yeah, damn, am I gonna have to cry at
the bar? Try to even envision that, dude, I can't
even imagine.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And if you did, I would be like whisking you.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Out of there? Oh no, because you know I would
kill you if you did.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
You know when they take people out of the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And like cover them up with the hood, did it?
If I ended up crying at a bar and a
lot of people saw me, I would hold you wholly
responsible because, first of all, I would never be in
that situation. If you're not there, It's very rare if
I'm in that kind of social scenario. This last weekend
was one of the first times that happened. Yeah, where
I was in a social scenario with you not there.
(27:13):
But yeah, if I didn't get out before the tears started,
I would look to you the next day not happy.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
No, trust me your body guard in that situation.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Oh boy. Anyway, Well, I know we're running out of time.
You've got somewhere you've got to be. But I loved it.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, totally. Shades are gay shades.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
A gay shades of gay. Yep, all right, later, my friend.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Bye, bye bye. I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast,
Rate us and write a review on Apple podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
We love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail. Dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I, s A and Ali A.
L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow us
on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh my gosh, that's pretty good, my friends. Yeah, a
long time had you just made that up on the fly?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh my god, totally on the fly.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What can I say? I'm I'm an improviser.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
You know they are? You really are? We shot on
one of our episodes. You just made me think about it.
Not do improv but do like sometimes with my kids,
I do we role play, like out a scenario, Like
we'll do role playing sometimes in these like topics, we
should roll play out some stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Oh my god, that would be hilarious.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Be hilarious. All right, Well, let's get after it. Let's
get after because I know my friend's in a hurry.
But actually, before we get after it, can I tell
everybody check out our website Lesbian Chronicles podcast dot com.
We have so much great merch on there. People are
buying hats right and left, they're buying t shirts right
and left. Please check it out, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And also want to plug Second Friday coming up on
June thirteenth. We're doing an open mic. It's the Pride
party Pride month June. Now Atlanta does Pride in October,
but Second Friday we'll still do like a little Pride party,
and so we're doing a comedy show beforehand open mic,
(01:53):
So that's before the actual Second Friday party, and your
ticket to Second Friday gets you into the show too.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So which Ali's Ali's going to be performing.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Alli's going to be performing. We've got some really good
people signed up already. So I think it's going to
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Actually, it's gonna be a whole lot of fun. Was
you and I was Pride party in June last year?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Or October? Was October?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay? Got it? It just felt so warm outside, it
was warm that night.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Okay, But that's that's kind of like the great part
about Atlanta Pride being in October is that it's so nice.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, it's corgeous.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
So I yeah, I think one year it rained though,
that's kind of sucked, But yeah, I do appreciate that
their Pride is in October because Denver Pride last year
in June was so hot.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And now can you imagine, I mean, Atlanta June July
is pretty brutal.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Ter Yeah, although not lately, dude, this weather is wild.
I'm like, this is the first week that the kids
are out of school and it's rained every day. We
had another goddamn tornade warning the other day, Like, I
can't this is probably the tenth one I've had since
I moved in this house.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I know, do you know it does? I? Well, you
guys know that I do a sound machine, a tsunami
level volume, tsunami level thunder. My sound machine sounds like
we're in the middle of a torrential problem, like take
take cover, But that's the sound machine. But the other
night it was pouring so hard that it was like trumping.
My sound machine really sounds.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So are you ever worried that you're gonna like, yeah, no,
totally worried.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But I just there's something about just horrific rain that
like really puts me to sleep and puts my mind.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
No, it's fantastic I mean really like on a when
it's normal rain, you know, there's no threat of tornadoes.
Me and my kids are just like this is magical.
Like I love the sound of it. I want to
fall into to it. I also will like open my
the blinds so that I can like have a nice view. Yeah,
like I love to watch the storm roll in. It's
(04:03):
so it's just such a cool like thing.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I agree. So I love it too, And yeah, we're
getting a lot of it lately.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
What's not a cool thing is that our little friend
Jojo Seawall is rolled back on her lesbianism.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I know, what did you don't have to roll it back,
I can't. She just be by and now she's okay.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So let me give the rundown for those of you
who are not actively on tap you.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, because you know I'm not following any of the shows.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
No, So, Jojo came out as a lesbian, although I've
heard some people say that she said she was pan,
so I don't know if she fully declared lesbian, but
she was very much in the woman loving wed apartments,
had a few relationships with women. They all seemed kind
of tumultuous, not gonna lie, kind of toxic. But she
(04:49):
goes on Big Brother, which I've never watched in my
entire life. I really don't understand the premise outside of like,
you don't have contact with the outside world and you're
in this house with other like low key celebrities.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, I would die in that environment.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Same, And so all they have to do is like
hang out with each other.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And during the show, she starts connecting with this guy.
I think his name's we'll call him Chris. I can't
even remember his name right now, but I think it's Chris.
He's like some celebrity in the UK. I don't know,
really know how he's famous outside of like maybe a
reality show. But they start like connecting. Meanwhile, Jojo has
a girlfriend who's watching all this play out because this
(05:33):
show like is live and.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Wait, doesn't she know the girlfriend's watching? Yeah, this is
weirdo world. That's what I call weirdo where I.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Mean, so she's not like hooking up with him, but
they are getting very close. It's very obvious that something's
at play, and so the show ends, Jojo immediately breaks
up with the girl and then like days later is
now dating this man.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Okay, there's a big age.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Not big, but it's is how big. Listen, JoJo's like
twenty twenty one years she's twenty one years old. This
guy's thirty two.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Okay to me, that's when they're younger, Like yeah, yeah, yeah,
for sure, when.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
You're younger, it's different. So anyway, they're dating now and
now Jojo, everybody's kind of like, what the fuck, dude, like,
which you're okay, yeah. And then there's another creator on TikTok,
I won't. I don't really know her story outside of that,
she has now said that she's no longer a lesbian
because she's discovered her Christianity and she's loyal to God. Whatever.
(06:42):
So my whole thing with these two cases.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Cases cases is cases of like it sounds like a
sickness or something.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I know, I know, but I feel like I can
see how it's confusing to people in the gay community
who have felt some pressure at some point, especially those
of us that are late in life to be in
a heteronormative relationship right right, And also the fear that
(07:13):
we hear from a lot of people that email us
all the time and say, what if, like this is
a phase, what if I want to go back to men.
And I understand that fear because it's like, Okay, it's
something that I like. The way that I see it
is it's something I desired prior to having the knowledge
of who I truly was right.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
But do you ever think, like I remember saying to
doctor Jamie, what if I decide that I'm not gay?
And like, now here I am and i'm And she
she said, what if?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
What if?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And but but what I said back was what if
I will have just sold my house, blew up my life,
left my husband, my kids now have a divorce mom
and dad. Like the stakes felt so high to be
wrong that I get it. Like to me, it's like
I get the price of admission is hard, but I
don't understand why if we're all buying into and I am,
(08:07):
I'm one of those people buying into sexual fluidity and
that it can shift and change and that maybe you're
by or maybe I'm a lesbian, but maybe I meet
this great guy who brings out something in me that
makes me attracted to him, Like are we not allowing
people that? Does that feel too threatening?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Exactly? And that's that's the other side of the argument here, Okay,
and the other side that I see too, is JoJo's
twenty one. That's really young.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Oh my god, that's Tatum, that's a child.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah. And the thing is, I don't think I could
have solidly declared my sexuality in my teens or twenties, like,
because there's so many other factors at play. You really
don't know yourself yet. You know, there's there's societal pressures
at play, and I think that's a lot of like
what she's dealing with. I think a lot of people
(09:01):
her age are You're trying to find your place in
the world. And I think for Jojo that was true
for her during that time, and I think this is
true for her now.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It isn't that. What we're all fighting for is feminists
to say you get to choose, you can choose whatever
you want to do, Like why, to me, that is
what we're fighting for.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, And as a twenty one year old, maybe prior
to this, she had not met a man that was
compelling to her right, and now she has and so
now she can be bisexual and that's totally fine. And
I think, you know, fast forward to our demographic of
people who are coming out later and that are worried
about things shifting back. My whole thing is I feel
(09:47):
like solid in my decision in that I know myself
far better than I did when I was twenty one
years old. I know what I want, I know what
I like. I also have the past experience of being
with men, yeah, and having that to compare to what
I have now.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I think that's so true. Like if you are somebody
who's listening to the show and you haven't come out
yet and you haven't left your marriage because you're scared
of what if I changed my mind. I'm not going
to leave this man and these children, or I'm not
gonna get divorced because what if I changed my mind.
I think it's such a fair thing. Like you said too,
if you haven't, you know, you've only had vanilla ice cream.
(10:28):
It's it's really hard to know what you like better
until you've had chocolate ice cream, and then you can
like have both, have a mix, have lots of things,
and then come up with Wow, you know what, I
really do feel like I'm more satisfied with this other
thing or not, or maybe you're not down ten years
down the road. I'm like you though, Like once I
(10:50):
had the experience of both. I'm becoming more and more
queer every year, like I'm more gay now. Somebody even
said to me the other day, They're like, you look
so mask right now. No, nobody would have said that
to me two years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
And how did you feel when you heard that?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Awesome? Yeah, and a few years ago would have felt
kind of offensive.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, but now I'd be like, oh great.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, thanks, Yeah, it's working. But I wasn't even trying to, like,
I'm sure I just wore what I wore that day
that felt comfortable, which is typical. But I think, like, yeah,
I think you just you evolve into yourself. At this
stage in my life, I have no attraction whatsoever to
men on that level ever, And I think about I
(11:32):
spent time recently with a woman from our group who
were both still very good friends with. She ended up
marrying a man, and she would say she still has
attraction to women, but she loves this man and she's
very satisfied physically, emotionally, all the things with this man.
(11:52):
And she has had both. So it's you know, to me,
it's like, I don't know, like knowledge is power, and
if you're in a marriage thinking you're gay and thinking
I can't leave because what if I think my advice
would be that you need to explore all these sides
of yourself so that you don't end up in a
situation where you're like why didn't I, or like I
never tried this thing to me? That would be the tragedy, right.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And that's another thing that I think about, is what
if I had just been like, you know what, Yes,
I think I'm interested in women, but it's it's I
don't want to move forward. I need to stay where
I am. I need to raise these kids and not
and not hurt my husband and just kind of like
take one for the team, you know, and play team.
(12:38):
But I think about myself in that situation, and I
can feel how weighed down I would feel. I know
that I would be carrying this sadness around in me
of this life that's unlived.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Same do you ever think, though, like Melissa, like when
we were coming out, there were like things like I
might like have a ranking of like things that are
very important to me, Ali vccaro, And like in my
marriage when I was leaving, I might have ranked you know,
my children. You know I don't there well being first,
maybe my sexuality at that you know, early on when
(13:14):
my kids were little, maybe fifth or sixth, like, it
just wasn't that big of a priority, my fan. You know,
you rank all the money, finances, all these things get ranked.
But as you like get older, and every year, like
my rankings would kind of shift. My kids were getting bigger,
they became more self sufficient, like things shifted, and I
would say it wasn't until after read was preschool, my
(13:37):
littlest that I sort of was like, this is getting
fucking louder and louder, Like this ranking is moving and
moving up and up and up, and now it's like
number one, and it's all I fucking think about. It's
like the volume is turned up all the time on
this sexuality piece of my life that got so loud
when it was quieter before. And so it's like that
(13:58):
became the priority for me in a way that it wasn't,
you know, when I was thirty two. It became loud
at thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine, getting louder, like
it just kind of kept getting louder. And I wonder too,
if sometimes you're just not ready to do the thing
because you've got other priorities that are bigger. I mean,
there was women in group that said, I don't want
(14:20):
to have a life that my husband is not there
every night helping these kids with their homework. I mean,
do you remember that woman where she's like, I need
him in the house. Yeah, Like, I know I do.
I'm working too much. I've got all the shit going on.
It's not worth it to me, right, And that's fucking
fair as hell, it is.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
One hundred percent. Yeah, And I think that that space
needs to be honored because really it is something that, like,
you know, maybe at that time in her life, that
was the thing that needed to be prioritized. I mean
it's kind of like what I'm still experiencing today of
like I don't want to live in this suburb. Yeah,
(14:58):
I want to live in the city my friends, right,
you know, I want to go live my life twenty
four to seven the way that I want to. But
I have two kids and their needs matter more.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Than mine today today, yep, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I know that that's not going to always be the case.
They're growing by the day, and I was telling them
the other day, I'm like, you know, my daughter, Kaitlin,
I was like, in six years, you're out of here
and she's like, no, that's a long time, and I'm like,
it's a long time from your perspective. I've been around
(15:36):
for forty four years. Those six years are going to
blow so fast. And to me, as much as it
sucks to live down here where, you know, Okay, I
love my house. Well, I'll give it that. I love
the community, that it's quiet, and my kids go to
grade schools, all those things, But I also know the
life that I want to live and it's still not
(15:58):
even quite there yet because of the priorities that I
have to put forth right now right. And it's different
for others.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
It's different for every single first for everyone, it has
a lot. I mean, there's so many factors at play.
It's how much help do you have? It's your money,
it's your time, it's your does your mom live close
and can help you? It's there's so many things at play.
Like I just group was so good for me in
that and that it opened my mind because I was
such a douche at the beginning where I'm like, you
(16:27):
got to be authentic, you got to come out. No
you don't, you don't.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I think that's a good point too, is like
if you want to explore this side of yourself. And
I know I understand that oftentimes it's really difficult if
you're married and you know he's not willing to like
kind of open that door for you. That's a tough spot.
But you, even if you get the divorce, you don't
have to come out and publicly declare your queerness. No.
(16:55):
I never did, and you never did. I did it
because of how alone I felt in that time, and
I was like I need to put this out there,
that this is a thing, you know, like there was
so few and far between of what stories I could find.
I was just like I knew I had a way
to talk outlet for it. Yep. So but you don't
(17:16):
have to do that, and you don't have to be
like I. You know, a queer is such a great
term for people because I feel like it covers all
the bases, right. You could be by, you can be pan,
you can be a lesbian, whatever. And so if someone
asks you, that's what you say.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
We have two people in our friend group that are
queer who are dating men.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, So I just I, yeah, I think there's so
many shades of gay.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
It's okay. Oh my gosh, my dog got excited because
I breathed.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But there's so many shades of gay that I think, like,
you can show up any way, And I do think
that the group represented people at all, all different stages
of gay. That woman would come every week to group.
She was never leaving her husband ever, Like maybe she
has by now seven years later, but I kind of
doubt it, And she was very clear about it, like I,
(18:13):
you know, maybe I'll get a girlfriend at some point,
but right now I am with this man and that's
going to be my life.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Sometimes too, It just takes time to get the hope,
for the hope of getting excited about a woman to
overcome the fear of leaving.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And I think, you know, someone who's twenty one is
operating in a very different place than someone who's forty one. True,
and you're free to change your mind. I tell my
kids that all the time. You know, you can. You
can like your ice cream thing. You can like vanilla
ice cream today. You might decide you only like chocolate tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah. I think I've said this before. My sister. I
remember when we were we both had kids who played sports,
and she would like let her kids quit stuff like
all the time, Like they might play half a season
and quit, and I would might. Parents would always be like,
you can't make him finish. She's got to finish, and
my sister would be like no, like and I remember
it being like I sort of thought my parents were right,
(19:08):
like he should finish, and then later I was like,
it is she taught them such a valuable lesson of
like I'm not enjoying this. I'm quitting, like I've given
it a chance, I don't want to do it. It
was almost like the ultimate pivot, like I'm gonna leave.
And I mean that same kid is now graduating from
medical school, is very successful, is finished obviously something amazing,
(19:31):
and didn't suffer at all. Like in some ways, she's
pretty fucking powerful. I mean, she does what she wants
on her terms. She didn't waste time doing a whole
season of something she hated. And I remember, like, I
don't know. That was a lesson too that I learned
watching my older sister raise kids, is like these kids
have agency and I'm not here to make them do
(19:51):
things that they've signed up for. They've got to sleep
in their bed because they made the bed. It's like
if you don't like it, like, you can change. You
don't have to eat vanilla forever.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Although I don't know, this is reminding me of when
I my first job out of college. I was a reporter.
I went into that job not knowing what in the
fuck I was doing, and I hated it. I fucking
hated it. Every day. I woke up with anxiety. I
was terrified. I didn't I worked with people who I
(20:22):
didn't like. Oh, and I wanted to quit at a
fucking day, but I was under contract. I could not.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So then you can't. Yeah, sometimes you can't quit.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
But the thing is, had I quit and just run
back home to my mom and dad, I wouldn't have
the career that I ended up having, right, you know.
So there are times where it's like, Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
If you're just stick it out for a higher purpose,
I think, yeah, But I think, like so many times,
women are taught to just suffer through, suffer through, well, yeah,
don't change, changing your major. They make people feel feel
so bad. It's like, if you're in London, it's like
these are children.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, it's just like they have to learn the pivot
is the ultimate life's happiness. Yeah, it's like, if you
can't do that, you're going to be stuck in a
lot of rooms you don't want to be in.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I agree, and I that kind of Yeah. I had
a friend in college who did the entire course load
degree in journalism and she didn't do an intern and
then just didn't get her diploma. Oh shit, and pivoted
entirely and went to a different career.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Okay, cool, So she did pivot.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
She did pivot, and she had to go back to school.
But I think she just realized this job, this career
is not for me.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That's it, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And I think she made the right choice. I think
what she went into she's far better suited for. And
I would have been terrified to have done a move
like that. My dad would have murdered me. Oh.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
My parents were like every time my sister would let
these kids quit stuff, it would just be like, I
can't believe your sister's letting them quit again, And I'm like, dude,
But now, like the proof is kind of in the pudding, Like.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think sometimes it's warranted. Yeah, and sometimes your gut
is telling you I don't belong in this space.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, how often does that happen. Is this happens to
me some and I'm pretty like you can put me
almost anywhere, but there are some times that I am
in rooms where I'm like, I do not belong here. Yeah,
Like I can feel there's like almost like a darkness
that I'm feeling in this space. These people probably feel
like a million bucks, but these aren't my people. Does
(22:31):
that happen to you as a grown adult?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I would say I feel it sometimes, like at events
mainly around here in the suburbs, or like that I
just I know I'm the odd one in the room,
or like that I'm standing out because I'm not dressed
in the Lily Pulitzer dress.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You know, I've got the hat on that kind of thing.
But also just like you know that it's one of
those gut feelings that I started to have towards the
end of my marriage, when I was trying to decide
do we stick this out? You know, what path do
we take? Do we separate? And I remember in my
gut just feeling like this doesn't feel right to me.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Anymore, It's not congruent with my life.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah. Yeah, and like I know that, like I know
that the stage sucks, and I know that we're having
to make some really sad and hard decisions. Yeah, but
I know that there's this person inside of me that
is not living. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
It's the ultimate pivot, right, Yeah, like it's it's the
ultimate pivot.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
I don't remember ever being worried though, that I was
going to go back.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
I don't really either. The only time I do actually
early on, I don't remember if it was right before
our divorce or right after our divorce, when we were
both like so emotionally sad. I remember thinking like, ugh,
this is isn't too late. And at that point, I
think my catalyst was being super scary and I was
feeling all kinds of like volatility there and he felt
(23:54):
like the safe, sweet option and she felt like the
dark side. It was like you have an angel and
a devil and your shoulder. Yeah, And I remember thinking like,
I can't believe I sold out the angel with the
safe anger and the port in the storm for what
I'm seeing on this other side terrified me.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
But I think at the same time, your gut knows
what direction needed to go.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, and neither is true, Like how often do you
do that where it's like two choices. I've got to
choose between this and this, And the truth is there's
a thousand choices. Like I think when we were leaving,
it was like our catalyst or our marriage. Yeah, and
it's like that's not really even the choice. That's not
what you're choosing between.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, And I think for so many of us, the
catalyst just is the safe space in that moment, their
gay space.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I wouldn't even say save, I would say space.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
But it's kind of like you're, you know, the life
the lifeboat, the.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You're trying to break into this world.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, it's like a little bridge that you need to have, yep,
to kind of feel safe in that moment. But I think, yeah,
deep down I knew this was not my forever.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah do you think you did? Like I don't know
whether I did eventually obviously, but like at the beginning,
I feel like I was pretty invested in that. I was.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I was for a while, But then the more that
I uncovered and was like, I've been in in a
marriage for or a relationship for fourteen years, and we
never argued like this, this kind of shit never came up.
Like I knew it was unhealthy. Yeah, I knew it
wasn't a forever thing. Yeah, so, but I wanted it
(25:36):
to be initially. Yeah. Now who doesn't And.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's like they have all this their reasons for the
arguing are like, well you're still married or like I'm like,
they have these reasons that are valid for being upset,
but it's just like, ah, like it was just That's
another reason why I think it's so much better if
you can to wait to date until your divorce is
over one hundred percent. Yeah, it just eats so many issues,
(26:02):
it really does. But nobody waits, like I get it.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I mean some people do, do they? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
People we know? Yeah Meredith did, Yeah, I guess she did.
So Molena did, Melena did. She's always my one that
I'm like Melena and she's still with her partner, like
I know. Yeah, there's a healthiness to that.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah. Well she did have a little bumpy road at
the beginning.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, I guess we all. You almost have to.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Everybody has to cry at the bar at some point.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah. Yeah, damn, am I gonna have to cry at
the bar? Try to even envision that, dude, I can't
even imagine.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
And if you did, I would be like whisking you.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Out of there? Oh no, because you know I would
kill you if you did.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
You know when they take people out of the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And like cover them up with the hood, did it?
If I ended up crying at a bar and a
lot of people saw me, I would hold you wholly
responsible because, first of all, I would never be in
that situation. If you're not there, It's very rare if
I'm in that kind of social scenario. This last weekend
was one of the first times that happened. Yeah, where
I was in a social scenario with you not there.
(27:13):
But yeah, if I didn't get out before the tears started,
I would look to you the next day not happy.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
No, trust me your body guard in that situation.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Oh boy. Anyway, Well, I know we're running out of time.
You've got somewhere you've got to be. But I loved it.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah, totally. Shades are gay shades.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
A gay shades of gay. Yep, all right, later, my friend.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Bye, bye bye. I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast,
Rate us and write a review on Apple podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
We love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail. Dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I, s A and Ali A.
L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow us
on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.