June 29, 2025 • 43 mins
In honor of 4th of July -- we talk the difference between relationships that start off as fireworks versus the slow burn.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
This is gold. This is gold.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
You guys need to hear this. So we're gonna start recording.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We always just so the so you guys know, like
we always do like a little preamble before we hit
record to just kind of like sess out like the
high points of the episode and so, but sometimes then
you start to like really get into a conversation and
then you're like, shit, we're gonna we're gonna get this.
Weren't recording. Well, we'll tell you what we what I said,
(01:04):
and then we'll tell you'll you'll understand more.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Why later, give a little teasers.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
A green lawn, a beautiful green lawn is loaded with
chemicals that will kill you. Okay, let that sink in.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I love it. I literally said, did you just where'd
you hear that?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Did you?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
With? Very smart?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's related to what we're going to talk about a
little bit. But first, let's talk about our weekend.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Let's talk about our weekend were you and I were
dancing on a kitchen counter together.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And we might have had some fake cigarette pretzels.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Again, we might have had cigarette pretzels. When I have
cigarette pretzels, you know, I'm having a good time, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And it was so funny, like I don't even know
where they came from. But all of a sudden, I'm like,
oh my god, someone.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Got the pretzels.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I was like, I have to embrace this.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm wondering if you guys are listening, like, who else
did that as a kid? The cigarette pretzels, the pretzel sticks,
the cigarettes? I did it my whole childhood.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, it reminds me of well, we had the candy cigarettes,
but we also would get the IBC root beer like
in the bottles.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh yeah, it looks like beer.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
It looked like beer, And me and my brother going
over to our neighbor's house and be like, yeah, our
parents bought us beer.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And right, well, we had the candy cigarettes, but it's
like that's not as accessible. That was like special occasion,
but like pretzel sticks are in my pantry every day. Okay,
so you can smoke anytime.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
But what was with us, Like why did we want
to do that? So about these two like really unhealthy habits.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And it's so weird, right, you just want to be grown.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So, you know, we did grow up in the days
of like watching Grease where they're like making smoking seem
like the coolest thing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
On the plane. Go to Manhattan. It's still the coolest.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Thing on the Oh my god, thank you. I know
this one. When I was in New York, I was unbelievable.
People smoke.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
They smoke a beautiful people smoke. It is wild, you know,
like here where I live, it's like no offense to smokers.
It's nothing, but it's it's a bit shameful. It's like
most of the time when you see people smoking, they're
they're unhealthy in other ways, Like there's other it's not
just the smoking. It's just like you associate smoking with
unhealthy in other ways, not always, not always. Don't freak
(03:08):
out that you're really healthy. But in the South, generally,
if I see a smoker. There's more to it than that.
But in New York City, it's like, here will be
this perfectly in shape, beautiful human and a cigarette hanging
out of their mouth.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
How do you think that is? Is it like like the.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
European kind is like everybody smokes. I mean she smokes pot,
not cigarettes, but she's like everybody here smokes.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's just so wild. I don't know, Like I guess, well,
like we've talked about before, dare that program? Did it
number on me? You know? And this is your.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Brain, this is your brain on drugs.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But also, I mean I had a very close friend
and was die from cancer related to smoking.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So I'm like, I'm good you guys.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I never wanted to I did it. I tried it
one time. We were on vacation with all my cousins.
I remember listening to guns and Roses, like when guns
and Roses were like the hot band. Yeah, listening to
guns and Roses. My cousin busts out a cigarette. I
took maybe two puffs. I was so nauseous. I never
smoked again. It was like the best thing that could
(04:19):
have happened to me. It made me dizzy, and I
never did it again. Not once.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I did it a little bit like in you know,
high school, but I didn't really like it.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And then it wasn't until I moved.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
To Florida when I was so stressed from my first
job and everybody down there smoked that. I was like, okay,
why not, Like it'll help ease my stress, and it did. Yeah,
but after like you know, a couple of years, I
was just like, I don't need to do this.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Then my friend got sick and I haven't had one
and thirteen.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Years, so yeah, yeah for you, but.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, it is. It is really well to me to
see that in New York.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
But I don't know, like I said to each of
their own, you know, maybe they're just still smoke pretzels.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Guys, moke pretzels.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's a healthy we have the whole lighter down, so.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Like literally it's so fun though, but.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
We I mean that Lake House was beautiful, Like thank
you to Kristen for hosting.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Thank you. I love that you got to climb to
get up on the counter. Melissa and I had to
climb up onto a bar stool and then climb from
the bar stool to the counter where we were dancing.
I was also djaying. I don't know if you knew this,
So I had under pultiple jobs. I was not only
coyote ugly on the bar, but I was also djaying
down below. But I remember saying to you, I'm like,
(05:34):
as long as I can get up and down, I
must still be pretty. I must not be too drunk.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It not too old, I'm too drunk.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Both.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, I did hit my head on the light.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Like, why do you know I have a video of
that someone sent me.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
There's a lot of videos that don't need to but
I would.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Have to like climb up on the counter and then
climb back down when the song was on the stunt.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Do you remember when the light bulb burnt out and
Kristin had to replace it, and I think there was
like three or four of us like surrounding her to
make sure she didn't fall off the stool, And I'm like,
how many lesbians does it.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Take to change a light bulb?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I do you remember that? I also remember your Meredith
picking a song that I was like, I'm gonna give
it like fifteen seconds, but if the crowd's not in it,
we're moving on. And so sure enough, the crowd was
not in it.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Did she picked Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
She picked some dumbe song.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh my god, I'm pretty sure Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But the crowd wasn't feeling it.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
So oh she was feeling it though, that's what matters.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, she was definitely feeling it. She got it for
about fifteen seconds and then I said sorry anyway.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Dj Alley says no.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Dj Ali says no. And I didn't do country. I
kept it dance.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I was so glad because when we were out of
the lake, that was what was playing. Was the day,
and I was having.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
To just be like, just because it's not your preference
doesn't mean you get to say anything.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So I try to I steck my mouth shutting. But yeah,
it was a total blast.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Good time.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
When I was tired for three days, I know, I
feel like, just what's today?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Wednesday is like the first day that I feel like
awake again.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, it's a lot, you know what it is. It's
not even the partying that's some of it, but it's
also just peopling. When you're staying in a house with
a group of people, you're really peopling like a ton. Yeah,
and so I get a lot worn out on that, Like,
I just don't want to make small talk anymore. Not
that it's a small talk, but it's just I get
to where I'm like, I do it and then I'm tired. Yeah,
(07:35):
for a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I agree. I think that was part of my thing.
I came home and I was just like, I want
to just be really quiet.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't think I talked for like two dayside of
talking to my kids.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
But it was a total blast.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So I feel like, now, you know, I brought up
to j C. Wall a few times on the podcast.
At this point, I've been I've been trying to be
a supporter of her since she came out. Why have
you been trying to be a supporter Because she's young
and she gets a lot of hate, and she grew
up on TV.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I know that there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
However, I retract all that support shit, okay, because you know,
as I've mentioned, she's gone back to dating men. Fine, cool, whatever,
But she recently said that the lesbian community LGBTQ community
pressured her into saying that she's a lesbian, and I
think that's a loabullshit.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
When you when you go.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
On TV and say that you invented gay pop, which
is something that yes, she actually said. I'm like, you
can't retract that part and act like you are pressured
to do so.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So yeah, I think they know who, like I know
who she is just from you, but I have no
It's not like this is a famous person, like I
have never seen her. I don't even know who she's She's.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Famous in like the reality TV world.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Okay, dance Moms kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Dance Moms and then being a singer and that kind
of thing. An influencer on TikTok that's kind of how
she's known and being on TV.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I don't know, but that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It's like there's so many people now that are like
quote fame, you know, like you'll see like YouTuber dies
at twenty nine never heard of me in the comments,
like I've never heard of them, and it's like, okay,
you've never heard of them, but then meanwhile they have
like three million followers.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, so I've never heard of her until you.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, she was like a different world with like social media.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I guess. Yeah, Well she can go off into the night.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
She can she can go have her boyfriend and be happy, whatever,
but don't blame us in the process.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Listen, guys, Listen, guys, here's the deal. She's going to
be back. If you this is I mean maybe ten
percent of the time it sticks. But if you mean
your lesbian and then you date men, I'm watching it.
The reason I have a pretty big sample pool because
we've been doing this podcast now for many years. My
sample pool is big. I'm watching ninety percent of the
(09:51):
time these people end up with women. So let her.
Let her she's young, let her how old is she
in her twenties.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
She's taking her early twenties.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
But I think it's a good point that you're making
because let's think about how many of our listeners that
are like, yeah, I dated women in my early twenties
and then I felt like I had to do this
other thing.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And marry the man. They're all back with women.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And I guess too, like somebody's going to say, yeah,
but your sample is lesbian, so of course they're back.
But I think that is the story time and time again,
is they dated women maybe in college. You know what
lugs are lesbian.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And different graduation, graduation and.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Marry men, and these are women too. Some of them
have very liberal families. It's not like they were in
repressed homes and they couldn't. They just didn't. And so
but come full circle there with women.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
We'll see you back Jojo in about oh, fifteen years, and.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The lesbians are they're mean. So they might be like, yeah,
no thanks. If you're saying that the lesbians pressured you.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I know, right, But that's interesting too about the whole
Like lesbians are mean. I wonder if that's of it
is that they've seen No, but I know you're kidding.
But like the lesbians that were gay in college that's
stuck with it.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And then watch their ex girlfriends run off and marry men.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, they're pissed.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
There's some resentment there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I'm sure valid. Yeah, so I can see that. I
know lots of like lesbians who've been out forever who
talk about yeah, like exes who one in my catalysts
she had an ex that went and went back to
a man and now is with women again. So it's
like a full circle just what I'm saying, Yeah, I
think I don't know, Like I would just wonder if,
(11:35):
like you, you hold out hope still, like even in
this day and age, that maybe you're not gay. Maybe
this thing. It's like when people go off their meds
or they think they can. I feel good, I don't
need it, and then they find out how sick they are.
Not that you get the analogy, but.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I mean it's also like fluidity, you know, Yeah, you
never know who you're gonna meet.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Now.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I did, Like I said, I feel very confident in
my decision and that I'm not going back.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
But I'm also old enough and have enough life experience
to speak that totally.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And I think like, also though, if you did, that
would be okay. I just don't blame That would be
like you then blaming our group therapy for making you
come out. It's like right, that's to me, is like
that's where it becomes a problem. Do whatever you want exactly.
Just don't blame other people. Take responsibility. You did it here,
you are no worries.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And I mean, come on, I'm the one that got
placed at the end of the mask. Oh my god,
during the party.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, do you know that was my idea? Of course
it was. It was. And then it turned I was
afraid it was going to turn controversial. It started to Yeah,
so we said, let's get in a line where you
think you belong in the lineup of them to butch right,
But it's hysterical where people think they belong and it's like,
(12:57):
like what you possibly see yourself that way?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I know, I just had to take my place at
the end towards. I tried to fight for myself to
not be all the way at the end.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I don't think of you as all the way at
the end.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I was challenging people to doing push up contests because
I knew I was going to.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Lose, and I was like, there you go, there's your answer.
You could do more push ups than me, but I could.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Probably do I could probably do more push ups than you,
and I'm definitely not on the end.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
True, true. This was just the only line of defense
at that point.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You're not at the end, so we'll just leave that there.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Like I was looking the part the other day because
I had on the backwards hat and all that stuff.
But what's funny, I don't know if you realized this,
and watching back the videos, we were wearing the same
exact outfit.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You and I were yeah that is oh wait, yeah
you me. And then there was one other person, right,
I think so. Actually, I know you told me that
night I looked like an outsider. Do you know the
movie The Outsiders?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
The book is one of my favorite books of all that.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Okay, well, yeah, they're like you were really giving Matt
Dillon and The Outsiders.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Hell yeah, I'll take At first, I at first I
was like offended, and then I'm like, all right.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Matt Dylan, I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And the Outsiders Hell yeah, I'm sure the cigarette helped it.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Did. I like to slick back hair too. I'm digging
the look.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Thank you. Yeah, I chopped my hair off.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
It's giving like a little bit of like ruby rose.
Not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Next tattoos.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Next, there's someone else who told me there's this band,
the Beaches, and they sent me a picture of the
somebody in that band, and I will say her hair
was like exactly what I was going for.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I do remember that. Yeah, someone showed me that the
other night, and yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So anyway, but I've got to work on it, like
I don't know how to do it yet, so I'm
just give me a minute to get it right.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And I know it's good. You're headed down the right path.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Had it down the right path. I gotta keep going.
It's all about the products, and I haven't perfected it yet.
That's a tough one, so we'll get there.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yes, And like I said, some neck tattoos.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Neck tattoos, I know, I'm so. I'm so still such
a chicken about the tattoos. It's really ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I mean, I saw this video the other day that
was basically making fun of people that have tattoos like mine,
where like they didn't take more than like thirty minutes.
They're like, the real deal is when you get like
a whole sleeve done and you're in there for like hours,
that's the true pain.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh okay, but what about if it's not even really
the pain's a tiny bit of it. It's more now
for me, the living with this thing. Like will I
feel any kind of way that I've gone so long
with no ink on my skin to having it? I'm
sure I won't if the tattoo is related to like
my children, because that's like forever my yeah, love. But
it's like, will I feel some kind of way about
(15:38):
that of like I didn't have any and now I
have a tattoo.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I don't think you will.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I think you would actually really like it, I think,
especially what it's associated with your kids.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like I love when people talk about the ones that
I have that represent my kids.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'm like so happy to like tell them.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Like, oh my daughter drew this, Like yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know, it's just like this cool thing.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's cool, And I don't have any that I feel
like I regret at all.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, I love that, I honestly, and I'm thinking about it.
I don't know anyone who said, like, don't do it.
Everybody's like, do it.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It's really not like everybody makes it up to be
so painful, and it is not in the least. The
most painful one that I've gotten was the one on
my sternum, and that's probably one of the most detailed
ones too, and the heart one of the hardest spots
on your body to get to.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Do so and I guess too, it can't be worse
than like botox.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, no kidding, which you know, I mean, come on,
I passed out from getting filler.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Ye, so filler does Jesus Well, what let's get into
our topic.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Let's you wanted to talk about the uh, the slow
burn versus the lightning bolt.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
What got me thinking about that is when you were
talking about Ross and Rachel on friends and how that
relationship just like unfolded over many, many years, and how
sometimes that's the case. It's it's a relationship that you
don't see right away. Maybe I think they even knew
each other as kids.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah, we want to talk friends, I can give.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
You some history. So it's like, but it develops over
the course of many, many years, versus the relationship that
you meet someone and it's like instant fireworks. I have
to be with this person crazy, And so those are
two different things. But also one thing Melissa and I
talked about is how sometimes when you meet someone, in
your mind, you've created this entire world that they live in,
(17:31):
and then when you get to know them and you
unpack that world, you realize that you had it all
Usually you had it all wrong. It might be better
than what you thought, but it also might be way
different or worse than what you thought. But I think
it's like, until you really get to know someone, anytime
there are instant fireworks, there's still so much more to
uncover because that's more physical at the beginning, you.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Know, right, Yeah, And I think we've experienced both.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yep, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
And yeah, often with.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That fireworks in the beginning and all that excitement, it
fizzles out and it also becomes very intense and toxic. Yeah,
you know that, like just you have that chemistry, but
you also have fights that match that chemistry.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, and it's like you don't have enough in what
I call the emotional bank to take withdraws versus like
when you have a relationship that's a slow burn over
many years or you know, whatever it is. You you know,
you're getting to know them, and there's so much in
that emotional bank with this person that when you have
the fight, it's easy to take a withdraw because there's
(18:37):
so much good there. The body of work is so
good versus like sometimes when you have immediate fireworks, it's
like every fight is like the end of the world
because there's no bank to pull from, Like we don't
have enough here together yet. It's just it's really true,
you know, And so it's just like you're it's devastating
because there's just nothing. It's like all or nothing, and you.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Know, it's it's difficult for me even like having any
kind of conflict. That's where my mind goes because it's
like that PTSD of being in those fights in past
relationships where it's like that's where it goes, and it's
like you're immediately left in this position where you feel
like you have to fight for your life to like,
you know, survive the relationship, like not let this happen.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, like I'm being left. I'm being left. Sirens going off,
you know.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I always talk about that time in my first
relationship where you know, we weren't even like together together, but
she basically was like, we need to call this, you know,
and we had this long conversation, long like breakup conversation,
and I go home, I'm devastated, and then she texts
me and it's basically like, why haven't you reached out
(19:47):
to me?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
This is like hours have.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Passed, and I was like, broke up with me?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, hello, you broke up with me. And it was
it was like I didn't have the rules for the game,
you know.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, the rules are you do that one hundred more
times until you've really damaged everything. Then and only then
then is it actually over.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Then when you no longer can be friends with this
person or be in.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
The same again, that's when it's over.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
When them on country. I know.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I always want to tell people like, if it's on again,
off again, just go, Like, I know you love them,
I know you think it's the best thing ever. I
know you think you have so much chemistry. I know,
I know, I know, I know all the things. But
if it's on again, off again, I would say more
than three times, I'm three is even really pushing it?
I think, just go, just go.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I can understand, like, you know, I'm saying this in
my own defense.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I guess, wait a minute, did you say three?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
No, but I can understand it happening a few times
if there's like or not conflict, but but like things
working against.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You, or like.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
What's the right way to put this? You know, like
you're it's more so you didn't need to break up.
It's just that you needed like a little bit of
processing time.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Did you ever read The Alchemist? No, Okay, there's a
part in that book about I hope it's The Alchemist
where they talk about like when you're on the right path,
the universe rises to meet you. And so it's like,
if there are these things you're describing, like there's things
working against you, there's your answer, you know, like it's
not time yet the universe like at the if you're
(21:32):
on the right path, the universe rises to meet you.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
But I think sometimes there's things working against you that
you can kind of put aside for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
But I could see how like the processing, like I
can see for me personally, I'll say that like I
was in a very I'm still in a healing phase
of my journey like I was. I feel like it's
taken me a long time to get right and like
emotionally open to new things, like I just wasn't emotionally open.
So I think like when you would start dating and
(22:03):
it's like you find yourself pulling back or like I
don't know if this is like going to work because
I'm not ready, Like I hear that, Like that to
me is like I get it, Like you're to your point,
Like it's almost like I need time to process what
would you know, my heartbreak? Yeah, and then I can
be more available for you.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Right because sometimes like you don't know when the next
relationship is going to happen, and sometimes it presents itself
and you're not quite there yet. You're not quite ready,
but you don't want to like let go of this thing.
That seems really amazing, that's right in front of you,
and that really could propel you forward in like healing
from this other person.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
But would it ever be like you're doing that at
their expense and maybe maybe better, Yeah, you're doing it
at their expense, and maybe it's better to say, I'm
going to you're worth it to me to get it
together and heal and get myself feeling open and when
i am, I'm going to call you and I'm going
to you're available, and if you still are, i'd love
(23:03):
to go out.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah. See, that's so hard for my brain to comprehend.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, because you're scared of losing the thing. Yeah yeah,
but it would almost be like I see this house
that I really want to buy. It's four million dollars.
I don't have four million dollars right now in the bank,
so I want it. I'm making this up. This is
like random, but like I have to save up and
like get to a place of buying the house. It's
not like I put myself out there and buy this
(23:28):
thing that I can't afford right now when I'm not ready, and.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
What if the house isn't there And.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It isn't but I wasn't ready. Yeah, so it wasn't
mine right, Like I don't I'm not saying I'm great
at this. I'm just saying like that to me would
be the healthy way to do it right.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And it is tough to like be in this space
of healing and know what it's like to be on
the other.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Side of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So it's like this thing where like you want this person,
but you find your brain going avoidance or like I'm
not quite there, and so it's in and out, Like
I feel myself sometimes I'll be like very in and
then I find myself kind of recoiling to quiet.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
That's it's so interesting to me because bringing up the
attachment styles of the avoidance, Like, like I said, I
don't think attachment styles matter in the right relationship, but
I do think that those things come up for us,
That avoidance comes up because it gets a little scary,
It gets a little bit like I'm putting myself out
there to this person. I'm still healing from the pain
(24:36):
from another person. Yeah, and it's kind of like that
that residual pain comes up and you're like, I better
protect myself so that avoidance.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, I better protect myself, and.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think it's a really hard thing to push through.
It's definitely hard to be on that side of the relationship.
And like I said, I've been on both sides and
it's hard for both parties. But I think it's one
of those things that you have to recognize it and
you have to speak it and say it, because if
you don't, then you're your other person's in the dark wondering,
like you said, like do they like me?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Like what's going on?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I think it's like identify the monster and call it
out by name. I mean, I think I have gotten
good at that part. Like I just think if you
do that, get ahead of it. It doesn't mean, like
I a slow burn to me is a beautiful thing,
Like it doesn't mean to be Yeah, Like you can
uncover things and start to find exciting things about people
(25:30):
over time that you're like, wow, that was just a
really great conversation that we probably wouldn't have had two
months ago. Like the relationship is developing slowly.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
The slow burn is like good for your nervous system.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
It's good for your nervous system, especially you and I
because we've been rattled a bit, like everyone has to
some extent, but I think ours are fresh and it
is good for your nervous system.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Like I don't need someone that's gonna confuse me right now.
I probably wouldn't even be in it if someone was
confusing to me, you.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Know, like no, And I think there's different kinds of
people too, Like I have one thing I'm realizing about
even just like in our friend group talking to people,
women are all different, like they're all they come to
it with such different ideas of what it looks like
to be in a relationship with someone. I've had friends
say to me that they really think, like likely they're
never going to be with the same person their whole life,
(26:26):
Like to them, that's not normal. Or they feel like
serial monogamy is a beautiful thing and you have stages
of your life that you're with certain people and then
a new season might bring a new love. I respect that.
I know for me, that's not what I want. And
like a lot of people are like, well, I'll stay
in this relationship if X, Y and Z happen, you know,
(26:47):
but it's conditional. And it got me thinking about like
my mom and dad and how my dad would have
never left my mom, my dad, my mom drank for years.
She gave it up and she's an amazing woman. But
it's like he could easily said, yeah, she was an alcoholic.
I had to leave. He didn't. He stayed with her,
and like he would tell you that was the single
(27:07):
best decision he ever made. She would say the same thing.
They are each other's people. And it's like my sister
wildly in love with her husband. She it would have
to be she'd have to be beaten to leave him.
Like there's but there's some people who would say that
that's silly. You're a woman and it's twenty twenty five.
If you're ready to grow in another direction, you just
(27:27):
do it like it's time to move on. And I
respect that too, Like you can leave for lots of
different reasons. I'll never leave my children. I mean that's
unconditional life. They are here forever. I want a partner
that I feel that way about. This is unconditional, Like
I am here for the duration, and so I don't
care what befalls you, like it doesn't matter, like we are.
(27:50):
And so to me, I'm kind of a rarity in
that way. I'm a little bit of a traditionalist. I'm
a little bit I know that that's not how everybody
sees the world. They might strive for that, but they're not,
you know, they're women of this general, this new in
this age, are very get my needs met. And if
I'm not, there's this was a beautiful season with a
(28:11):
loving goodbye, and that's brilliant. It's just not me.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
It's not me either, Honestly. It's like I want to
find that solid thing.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And I think you know, you you use the comparison
of your parents, and I think that can apply to
so many aspects of a relationship. You know, you're going
to hit highs and lows. You're going to have you're
going to lose a parent eventually, and it's going to
make you crash out. Like you could face a medical
issue that's really difficult to get through, and it's like
(28:42):
life is going to throw you obstacles and it's like
you have to decide whether or not you're going to
like stick together through that. And I mean, I can't
imagine being like, well, my partner's mom died and she's
having a really hard time, so I'm going to leave,
you know, And.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
It maybe that that's why what would happen is that
your partner's mom dies, your partner starts getting depressed. Now
your partner's in bed for multiple hours a day. She
just lost her job, Now she doesn't have any money.
Now you're fighting, and pretty soon your your friends are
telling you, Melissa, you have to take care of yourself.
You can't continue down this road, and you're enabling her.
(29:18):
You have to do what's best for you in this moment.
And that's beautiful, but that's just not how I see
the world. Like, you committed to her. Her mother died,
she's depressed, you're to me you need to be bedside
helping her.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, well and helping get out of the funk. Yeah,
finding a path forward together, not enabling it together together.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, it's like you'd realize we're dinosaurs, Like this is
not like we're not This isn't the norm. Like the
more people I have really deep.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I'm sorry, dinosaurs really threw me off because I'm like,
what do you mean.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
We're like we are the exception to the rule.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Okay, I thought you meant like we're like old ladies.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
No, we're not old ladies.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
We're all just dinosaurs.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
No, Like I know a thirty eight year old who
thinks like we do. But there's plenty of people who
would say that that is not the way the world
works anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, it is. If that's what you're going to find
other people like minded people.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
You are for sure, so, and especially the second time around,
because it's like there's no children involved now. So it's like,
I truly like if I pick to be with you,
I'm being with you strictly because you're bringing some wonderful
value to our existence that's already here. That's pretty wonderful now.
So it's just like it's not like we share this
(30:43):
thing that I have to stay mm hmmm, because you
know I don't. I just want that. I want thirty
forty years with somebody.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, absolutely, and that amount of time with a nice
calm nervous.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
System, with a calm nervous system.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Perfect. Let's circle back to the grass analogy.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, the grass analogy, I forget.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
So how does that all play in here?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So you can have a beautiful green lawn, but it's
loaded with chemicals that's going to kill you. So that
to me is about when you meet someone and it's
like instant fucking fireworks. You meet them at a party
and you're like, Wow, oh my god, I've got to
be with this person. I'm so attracted to them. They
are a beautiful quote unquote green lawn. But it's just
like when you start to unpack it, it's like, many times,
(31:31):
what's beneath all that is there's a lot of things
that aren't compatible, aren't and looks are going to fade,
Like that attraction is going to morph and change. It's
like the bigger things that are behind the curtain are
really important and sometimes they're wonderful, but sometimes they're not.
You know, I dated a woman who I met and
I was like, oh my god, she's so fucking amazing.
(31:53):
She had this amazing, really interesting job and I was
fascinated by her, completely dialed in. But it's like the
more I got to know her, the more I realized,
like she was a huge drinker, she was a huge partier.
She ate like horribly unhealthy. She you know, would stay
(32:14):
up really late and then sleep till like noon. That's
like not me, Like that would never be competitive. It
actually made me gave me the ick a little bit
because I'm like, I've got kids, like I'm working, like
I to me, it was like everything about her besides
that initial chemistry was bad for me. But it's just
like it takes a while to see all the chemicals
in the lawn that I'll kill you.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, exactly. You can see that green lawn. Yeah, that
looks really nice and I'd like, I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Go lay on the lawn.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, but really literally.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Real quick. Literally.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
But but not to say like she's perfect for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
That she has.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
She's like adventure and fun and Saturday Night will never
be boring like that. She's going to be perfect for somebody,
it's just not going to be me.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I think that's where you have to, like, don't get
too wrapped up in the story you've built about this
exciting firework that you just met, because there's a whole
lot behind that that you have no idea about yet.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, and fireworks are dangerous. Let's fourth of July.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's true, this metaphor just goes on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It does. Yeah, can't handle fireworks?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Tell me a time about you dating a firework?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Where it turned oh my first relationship.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, although I don't know that didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Necessarily start out as like a firework thing. I think
the fireworks started because of her like push pull.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, and why are we attracted? It's like that is
so true. It's like this intermittent reinforcement like the dog,
like Papa's dog. It's like if you you literally do
this intermittent reinforcement and it strengthens that pattern so much
where it's like you give me a little I'm back in,
then take a little away.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, because I remember initially I was like I don't
know if I'm not attracted, you know, But then it
was like that push pool dynamic came in and it
was like I fell for it so hard. Yeah, and
that created the chemistry.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
But that's like my childhood shit, you know, that's like
a pick me that it pick me.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It comes from coming from a family full of four
kids where you didn't get enough attention, you know, like
and you have to work for attention, right, like that
kind of thing. So luckily I can recognize that dynamic
now and I would never again go for that kind
of bs.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
But you know somewhere that like you see now where
you're like, oh there it is.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
When someone's not responsive, like I think to respond.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I think that is the biggest thing that I learned throughout,
like my time with like dating apps or just in
general being single is if someone's.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Not like matching my energy.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And I'm not even saying like you gotta text me
like every day or anything like that, but if I
text you and you don't respond for like a couple
of days.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
You're not in it.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
You're not interested.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You know, if we have plans and we've like tentatively.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Said like let's hang out on Saturday, and then you're
not texting me until like Saturday afternoon with maybe plans.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah you're not interested. You're not interested. But what about
even the threat of leaving me is like the pert
you know, you're dating someone and there's like this undercurrent
of like they might leave, and then maybe in a
fight they're like I'm done, and then it's like it
makes you like, yeah, like uh, you got to claw back,
like you can't lose this thing. But it's just like
(35:45):
that to me becomes like this addictive pattern of it
is to walk out the like a healthy person in
a relationship, you can take five minutes, you can go
maybe walk around the block, but I'm done and the
storm out is like really.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
And That's something I've had to like express in relationships
now is like don't like if we're in a fight,
I need to know that like this is just the thing, Everything's.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Fine, Yeah, we just nehing to see here.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Nothing to see here. I'm not leaving, like I need
that clearly established. But I'm also the one that needs
to take a walk sometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, do you think you're better at giving reassurance or
do you think you need Like I think of you
as somebody who needs reassurance and likely who gives it,
But do you like say more about that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I think I definitely need it and I can give it,
but sometimes I need like a little bit of time
to like.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Gather my thoughts on it.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I'm definitely one of those people that takes along a
bit longer to process than most people, especially because like
for me right now with dealing with like Pyraimio pause
kind of stuff, like my my emotions kind of shut
down to a point sometimes where I'm like, I don't
want to say anything right now because I'm like, I
I don't even know how I feel.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, do you have any thing too, like with your partner,
and like in dating in general, it's like sometimes too
I think about like my day and like how where
I'm pulled and it's like I've still I have three kids.
Two of them are yes, they're they're in college, but
they need me all the time. They call me. My
daughter calls me three times a day sometimes it just
(37:22):
needs me to hear something or needs me to know something,
or my son does the same thing. And then I
have a little one still here living here. So it's
like the polls at my attention are twenty four hours
a day, Like it's yeah, it's always. And then it's
sometimes like you date someone who maybe doesn't have kids
or as one kid, and it's like I think that
they're more open, like they have there's not as many
(37:44):
polls on there. We all have jobs. I get that.
Like I'm not saying you're not busy. I'm just saying, like,
when you have three kids, the poll at your your
emotional bandwidth, I call it emotional labor. It's like it's
it's a lot of mine is spent. And so then
it's like you're trying to have a relationship and it's
like I don't I'm I want to do this thing,
but I'm I'm pulled so much all the fucking time.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
And that makes your person feel like they're like yeah,
fourth and the priority.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Exactly, which is not true and isn't fair. So that's
sometimes when I have to say, like maybe I'm just
you know, not ready, or maybe I'm I don't know,
like it's harder, it's it's different.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
It is really hard and and I feel that too.
You know, my kids are pretty.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Independent in a lot of ways, but like sometimes at
work it's really busy, or I'm working on writing something
and I need to really be focused on that or
editing the podcast.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You know, a podcast take time. And even if that
like that stuff is work stuff, and they probably have
work stuff too. But even if your kids are independent,
there's still like an overriding responsibility I have for these
three people all the time. So it's like, even if
I'm not actively making your dinner, I'm thinking about the
fact that you need to eat tonight and get to soccer.
So it's just like this whole other thing that creates
(39:01):
Sometimes for me, at least, it might look like I'm
pulling away, but the truth is I'm just my emotional band.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, I mean, and it's summer, Like, God, my daughter's
in swim team. We've got two swim meets in the
next few days, like there's keeping them entertained, and you know,
my work just keeps going, It just keeps going.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Are they on their iPads? How long have they been
on there?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I have so much iPad guilt right now you wouldn't
even know, like.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I'm in it. I think that's another thing of like
sometimes you're you're also just at two different places with
people at what bandwidth you have to emotionally spend on
the relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
It's also hot as funk outside. I can't even send
them outside.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
No, I know, it's so tiring.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I'll have like deep facts called on me if they
come out.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
My little one is at my parents for he does
like a week of camp there. It's like a sailing camp,
and so he can't be on his iPad really, and
they're like entertaining him. And I'm so really eve that
he has a week of like fishing and beach and sailing,
like he's not sitting there and it's like, my I'm
like so thankful because I'm like, if he was here,
(40:10):
he would be on his iPad like video games anyway.
So I guess, yeah, slow burn versus fireworks, I think
both can be positive. We have a lot of friends
who have met in the firework realm, so I know
they're like, it works, it works, we're gonna be together forever,
and you probably will, but not always, like sometimes it
does take a while to unpack and like see somebody
(40:32):
in a new way.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
I'm scared of fireworks at this point.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I know, I think you and I have been burned.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I'm like, I'll take the slow burn, and I shouldn't
act like there wasn't like attraction or anything. There was
an instant attraction the moment I saw Meredith for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah. Oh yeah, it's always contractions there. It's calm.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
It's always been calm.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, And it's like, we don't know what that feels like.
So it's like your body is trying to your brain
is trying to identify what that is. But you're right, yeah,
like that's a beautiful fucking thing. If your nervousness isn't
on fire, you're not anxious.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You know. So I'll leave you guys on this note.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
At the lake house, I made a video of everybody
and I put it all together and I ask people
on TikTok to pick the straight woman in the group
and the people leading the charge of who is straight.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Yeah, Maryanna and my Meredith, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
God, yeah, that's tracks actually, so they would have been
at the far end.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yes, they were at the far end of the spectrum
when we set it up.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
So that is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
And my sister commented and she was like, listen, I
already know the answer to this, and yeah, you're definitely
not getting any.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Guesses, Melissa, what about me?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
How do I how gay? Did I look?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
You look pretty gay?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
But I feel like, you know, maybe you'll get a
few guesses in there.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
So will you tell me if I get a guess?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I will, But you know, it's funny and I'm only
going to say this to on the podcast for our
listeners at the moment.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
But no one in that group is straight, not totally straight, No,
not totally straight.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah, the lesbian gay agenda's gotten her exactly, unlike Jojo exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Okay, I'll not note then.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
All right, all right, talk soon, talk soon, all right bye.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Rate us and write a review on Apple podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I, s A and Ali A.
L l I at gmail dot com, or follow us
on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
This is gold. This is gold.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
You guys need to hear this. So we're gonna start recording.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We always just so the so you guys know, like
we always do like a little preamble before we hit
record to just kind of like sess out like the
high points of the episode and so, but sometimes then
you start to like really get into a conversation and
then you're like, shit, we're gonna we're gonna get this.
Weren't recording. Well, we'll tell you what we what I said,
(01:04):
and then we'll tell you'll you'll understand more.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Why later, give a little teasers.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
A green lawn, a beautiful green lawn is loaded with
chemicals that will kill you. Okay, let that sink in.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I love it. I literally said, did you just where'd
you hear that?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Did you?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
With? Very smart?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's related to what we're going to talk about a
little bit. But first, let's talk about our weekend.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Let's talk about our weekend were you and I were
dancing on a kitchen counter together.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
And we might have had some fake cigarette pretzels.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Again, we might have had cigarette pretzels. When I have
cigarette pretzels, you know, I'm having a good time, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
And it was so funny, like I don't even know
where they came from. But all of a sudden, I'm like,
oh my god, someone.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Got the pretzels.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And I was like, I have to embrace this.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm wondering if you guys are listening, like, who else
did that as a kid? The cigarette pretzels, the pretzel sticks,
the cigarettes? I did it my whole childhood.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, it reminds me of well, we had the candy cigarettes,
but we also would get the IBC root beer like
in the bottles.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh yeah, it looks like beer.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
It looked like beer, And me and my brother going
over to our neighbor's house and be like, yeah, our
parents bought us beer.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And right, well, we had the candy cigarettes, but it's
like that's not as accessible. That was like special occasion,
but like pretzel sticks are in my pantry every day. Okay,
so you can smoke anytime.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
But what was with us, Like why did we want
to do that? So about these two like really unhealthy habits.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
And it's so weird, right, you just want to be grown.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So, you know, we did grow up in the days
of like watching Grease where they're like making smoking seem
like the coolest thing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
On the plane. Go to Manhattan. It's still the coolest.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Thing on the Oh my god, thank you. I know
this one. When I was in New York, I was unbelievable.
People smoke.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
They smoke a beautiful people smoke. It is wild, you know,
like here where I live, it's like no offense to smokers.
It's nothing, but it's it's a bit shameful. It's like
most of the time when you see people smoking, they're
they're unhealthy in other ways, Like there's other it's not
just the smoking. It's just like you associate smoking with
unhealthy in other ways, not always, not always. Don't freak
(03:08):
out that you're really healthy. But in the South, generally,
if I see a smoker. There's more to it than that.
But in New York City, it's like, here will be
this perfectly in shape, beautiful human and a cigarette hanging
out of their mouth.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
How do you think that is? Is it like like the.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
European kind is like everybody smokes. I mean she smokes pot,
not cigarettes, but she's like everybody here smokes.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
That's just so wild. I don't know, Like I guess, well,
like we've talked about before, dare that program? Did it
number on me? You know? And this is your.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Brain, this is your brain on drugs.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
But also, I mean I had a very close friend
and was die from cancer related to smoking.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So I'm like, I'm good you guys.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I never wanted to I did it. I tried it
one time. We were on vacation with all my cousins.
I remember listening to guns and Roses, like when guns
and Roses were like the hot band. Yeah, listening to
guns and Roses. My cousin busts out a cigarette. I
took maybe two puffs. I was so nauseous. I never
smoked again. It was like the best thing that could
(04:19):
have happened to me. It made me dizzy, and I
never did it again. Not once.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I did it a little bit like in you know,
high school, but I didn't really like it.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And then it wasn't until I moved.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
To Florida when I was so stressed from my first
job and everybody down there smoked that. I was like, okay,
why not, Like it'll help ease my stress, and it did. Yeah,
but after like you know, a couple of years, I
was just like, I don't need to do this.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Then my friend got sick and I haven't had one
and thirteen.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Years, so yeah, yeah for you, but.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, it is. It is really well to me to
see that in New York.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
But I don't know, like I said to each of
their own, you know, maybe they're just still smoke pretzels.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Guys, moke pretzels.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It's a healthy we have the whole lighter down, so.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Like literally it's so fun though, but.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
We I mean that Lake House was beautiful, Like thank
you to Kristen for hosting.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Thank you. I love that you got to climb to
get up on the counter. Melissa and I had to
climb up onto a bar stool and then climb from
the bar stool to the counter where we were dancing.
I was also djaying. I don't know if you knew this,
So I had under pultiple jobs. I was not only
coyote ugly on the bar, but I was also djaying
down below. But I remember saying to you, I'm like,
(05:34):
as long as I can get up and down, I
must still be pretty. I must not be too drunk.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
It not too old, I'm too drunk.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Both.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, I did hit my head on the light.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Like, why do you know I have a video of
that someone sent me.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
There's a lot of videos that don't need to but
I would.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Have to like climb up on the counter and then
climb back down when the song was on the stunt.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Do you remember when the light bulb burnt out and
Kristin had to replace it, and I think there was
like three or four of us like surrounding her to
make sure she didn't fall off the stool, And I'm like,
how many lesbians does it.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Take to change a light bulb?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I do you remember that? I also remember your Meredith
picking a song that I was like, I'm gonna give
it like fifteen seconds, but if the crowd's not in it,
we're moving on. And so sure enough, the crowd was
not in it.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Did she picked Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
She picked some dumbe song.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh my god, I'm pretty sure Kendrick Lamar.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But the crowd wasn't feeling it.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
So oh she was feeling it though, that's what matters.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, she was definitely feeling it. She got it for
about fifteen seconds and then I said sorry anyway.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Dj Alley says no.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Dj Ali says no. And I didn't do country. I
kept it dance.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I was so glad because when we were out of
the lake, that was what was playing. Was the day,
and I was having.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
To just be like, just because it's not your preference
doesn't mean you get to say anything.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So I try to I steck my mouth shutting. But yeah,
it was a total blast.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Good time.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
When I was tired for three days, I know, I
feel like, just what's today?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Wednesday is like the first day that I feel like
awake again.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, it's a lot, you know what it is. It's
not even the partying that's some of it, but it's
also just peopling. When you're staying in a house with
a group of people, you're really peopling like a ton. Yeah,
and so I get a lot worn out on that, Like,
I just don't want to make small talk anymore. Not
that it's a small talk, but it's just I get
to where I'm like, I do it and then I'm tired. Yeah,
(07:35):
for a couple of days.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I agree. I think that was part of my thing.
I came home and I was just like, I want
to just be really quiet.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't think I talked for like two dayside of
talking to my kids.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
But it was a total blast.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So I feel like, now, you know, I brought up
to j C. Wall a few times on the podcast.
At this point, I've been I've been trying to be
a supporter of her since she came out. Why have
you been trying to be a supporter Because she's young
and she gets a lot of hate, and she grew
up on TV.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I know that there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
However, I retract all that support shit, okay, because you know,
as I've mentioned, she's gone back to dating men. Fine, cool, whatever,
But she recently said that the lesbian community LGBTQ community
pressured her into saying that she's a lesbian, and I
think that's a loabullshit.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
When you when you go.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
On TV and say that you invented gay pop, which
is something that yes, she actually said. I'm like, you
can't retract that part and act like you are pressured
to do so.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So yeah, I think they know who, like I know
who she is just from you, but I have no
It's not like this is a famous person, like I
have never seen her. I don't even know who she's She's.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Famous in like the reality TV world.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Okay, dance Moms kind of.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Dance Moms and then being a singer and that kind
of thing. An influencer on TikTok that's kind of how
she's known and being on TV.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
I don't know, but that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It's like there's so many people now that are like
quote fame, you know, like you'll see like YouTuber dies
at twenty nine never heard of me in the comments,
like I've never heard of them, and it's like, okay,
you've never heard of them, but then meanwhile they have
like three million followers.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, so I've never heard of her until you.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, she was like a different world with like social media.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I guess. Yeah, Well she can go off into the night.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
She can she can go have her boyfriend and be happy, whatever,
but don't blame us in the process.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Listen, guys, Listen, guys, here's the deal. She's going to
be back. If you this is I mean maybe ten
percent of the time it sticks. But if you mean
your lesbian and then you date men, I'm watching it.
The reason I have a pretty big sample pool because
we've been doing this podcast now for many years. My
sample pool is big. I'm watching ninety percent of the
(09:51):
time these people end up with women. So let her.
Let her she's young, let her how old is she
in her twenties.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
She's taking her early twenties.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
But I think it's a good point that you're making
because let's think about how many of our listeners that
are like, yeah, I dated women in my early twenties
and then I felt like I had to do this
other thing.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And marry the man. They're all back with women.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And I guess too, like somebody's going to say, yeah,
but your sample is lesbian, so of course they're back.
But I think that is the story time and time again,
is they dated women maybe in college. You know what
lugs are lesbian.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And different graduation, graduation and.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Marry men, and these are women too. Some of them
have very liberal families. It's not like they were in
repressed homes and they couldn't. They just didn't. And so
but come full circle there with women.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
We'll see you back Jojo in about oh, fifteen years, and.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
The lesbians are they're mean. So they might be like, yeah,
no thanks. If you're saying that the lesbians pressured you.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I know, right, But that's interesting too about the whole
Like lesbians are mean. I wonder if that's of it
is that they've seen No, but I know you're kidding.
But like the lesbians that were gay in college that's
stuck with it.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And then watch their ex girlfriends run off and marry men.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, they're pissed.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
There's some resentment there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I'm sure valid. Yeah, so I can see that. I
know lots of like lesbians who've been out forever who
talk about yeah, like exes who one in my catalysts
she had an ex that went and went back to
a man and now is with women again. So it's
like a full circle just what I'm saying, Yeah, I
think I don't know, Like I would just wonder if,
(11:35):
like you, you hold out hope still, like even in
this day and age, that maybe you're not gay. Maybe
this thing. It's like when people go off their meds
or they think they can. I feel good, I don't
need it, and then they find out how sick they are.
Not that you get the analogy, but.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I mean it's also like fluidity, you know, Yeah, you
never know who you're gonna meet.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Now.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I did, Like I said, I feel very confident in
my decision and that I'm not going back.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
But I'm also old enough and have enough life experience
to speak that totally.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And I think like, also though, if you did, that
would be okay. I just don't blame That would be
like you then blaming our group therapy for making you
come out. It's like right, that's to me, is like
that's where it becomes a problem. Do whatever you want exactly.
Just don't blame other people. Take responsibility. You did it here,
you are no worries.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And I mean, come on, I'm the one that got
placed at the end of the mask. Oh my god,
during the party.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, do you know that was my idea? Of course
it was. It was. And then it turned I was
afraid it was going to turn controversial. It started to Yeah,
so we said, let's get in a line where you
think you belong in the lineup of them to butch right,
But it's hysterical where people think they belong and it's like,
(12:57):
like what you possibly see yourself that way?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I know, I just had to take my place at
the end towards. I tried to fight for myself to
not be all the way at the end.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I don't think of you as all the way at
the end.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I was challenging people to doing push up contests because
I knew I was going to.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Lose, and I was like, there you go, there's your answer.
You could do more push ups than me, but I could.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Probably do I could probably do more push ups than you,
and I'm definitely not on the end.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
True, true. This was just the only line of defense
at that point.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You're not at the end, so we'll just leave that there.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Like I was looking the part the other day because
I had on the backwards hat and all that stuff.
But what's funny, I don't know if you realized this,
and watching back the videos, we were wearing the same
exact outfit.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
You and I were yeah that is oh wait, yeah
you me. And then there was one other person, right,
I think so. Actually, I know you told me that
night I looked like an outsider. Do you know the
movie The Outsiders?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
The book is one of my favorite books of all that.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Okay, well, yeah, they're like you were really giving Matt
Dillon and The Outsiders.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Hell yeah, I'll take At first, I at first I
was like offended, and then I'm like, all right.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Matt Dylan, I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And the Outsiders Hell yeah, I'm sure the cigarette helped it.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Did. I like to slick back hair too. I'm digging
the look.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Thank you. Yeah, I chopped my hair off.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
It's giving like a little bit of like ruby rose.
Not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Next tattoos.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Next, there's someone else who told me there's this band,
the Beaches, and they sent me a picture of the
somebody in that band, and I will say her hair
was like exactly what I was going for.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I do remember that. Yeah, someone showed me that the
other night, and yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
So anyway, but I've got to work on it, like
I don't know how to do it yet, so I'm
just give me a minute to get it right.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
And I know it's good. You're headed down the right path.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Had it down the right path. I gotta keep going.
It's all about the products, and I haven't perfected it yet.
That's a tough one, so we'll get there.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yes, And like I said, some neck tattoos.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Neck tattoos, I know, I'm so. I'm so still such
a chicken about the tattoos. It's really ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I mean, I saw this video the other day that
was basically making fun of people that have tattoos like mine,
where like they didn't take more than like thirty minutes.
They're like, the real deal is when you get like
a whole sleeve done and you're in there for like hours,
that's the true pain.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh okay, but what about if it's not even really
the pain's a tiny bit of it. It's more now
for me, the living with this thing. Like will I
feel any kind of way that I've gone so long
with no ink on my skin to having it? I'm
sure I won't if the tattoo is related to like
my children, because that's like forever my yeah, love. But
it's like, will I feel some kind of way about
(15:38):
that of like I didn't have any and now I
have a tattoo.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I don't think you will.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
I think you would actually really like it, I think,
especially what it's associated with your kids.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like I love when people talk about the ones that
I have that represent my kids.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I'm like so happy to like tell them.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Like, oh my daughter drew this, Like yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know, it's just like this cool thing.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's cool, And I don't have any that I feel
like I regret at all.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, I love that, I honestly, and I'm thinking about it.
I don't know anyone who said, like, don't do it.
Everybody's like, do it.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It's really not like everybody makes it up to be
so painful, and it is not in the least. The
most painful one that I've gotten was the one on
my sternum, and that's probably one of the most detailed
ones too, and the heart one of the hardest spots
on your body to get to.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Do so and I guess too, it can't be worse
than like botox.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, no kidding, which you know, I mean, come on,
I passed out from getting filler.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Ye, so filler does Jesus Well, what let's get into
our topic.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Let's you wanted to talk about the uh, the slow
burn versus the lightning bolt.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
What got me thinking about that is when you were
talking about Ross and Rachel on friends and how that
relationship just like unfolded over many, many years, and how
sometimes that's the case. It's it's a relationship that you
don't see right away. Maybe I think they even knew
each other as kids.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah, we want to talk friends, I can give.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
You some history. So it's like, but it develops over
the course of many, many years, versus the relationship that
you meet someone and it's like instant fireworks. I have
to be with this person crazy, And so those are
two different things. But also one thing Melissa and I
talked about is how sometimes when you meet someone, in
your mind, you've created this entire world that they live in,
(17:31):
and then when you get to know them and you
unpack that world, you realize that you had it all
Usually you had it all wrong. It might be better
than what you thought, but it also might be way
different or worse than what you thought. But I think
it's like, until you really get to know someone, anytime
there are instant fireworks, there's still so much more to
uncover because that's more physical at the beginning, you.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Know, right, Yeah, And I think we've experienced both.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yep, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
And yeah, often with.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
That fireworks in the beginning and all that excitement, it
fizzles out and it also becomes very intense and toxic. Yeah,
you know that, like just you have that chemistry, but
you also have fights that match that chemistry.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, and it's like you don't have enough in what
I call the emotional bank to take withdraws versus like
when you have a relationship that's a slow burn over
many years or you know, whatever it is. You you know,
you're getting to know them, and there's so much in
that emotional bank with this person that when you have
the fight, it's easy to take a withdraw because there's
(18:37):
so much good there. The body of work is so
good versus like sometimes when you have immediate fireworks, it's
like every fight is like the end of the world
because there's no bank to pull from, Like we don't
have enough here together yet. It's just it's really true,
you know, And so it's just like you're it's devastating
because there's just nothing. It's like all or nothing, and you.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Know, it's it's difficult for me even like having any
kind of conflict. That's where my mind goes because it's
like that PTSD of being in those fights in past
relationships where it's like that's where it goes, and it's
like you're immediately left in this position where you feel
like you have to fight for your life to like,
you know, survive the relationship, like not let this happen.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, like I'm being left. I'm being left. Sirens going off,
you know.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I always talk about that time in my first
relationship where you know, we weren't even like together together, but
she basically was like, we need to call this, you know,
and we had this long conversation, long like breakup conversation,
and I go home, I'm devastated, and then she texts
me and it's basically like, why haven't you reached out
(19:47):
to me?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
This is like hours have.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Passed, and I was like, broke up with me?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, hello, you broke up with me. And it was
it was like I didn't have the rules for the game,
you know.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, the rules are you do that one hundred more
times until you've really damaged everything. Then and only then
then is it actually over.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Then when you no longer can be friends with this
person or be in.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
The same again, that's when it's over.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
When them on country. I know.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I always want to tell people like, if it's on again,
off again, just go, Like, I know you love them,
I know you think it's the best thing ever. I
know you think you have so much chemistry. I know,
I know, I know, I know all the things. But
if it's on again, off again, I would say more
than three times, I'm three is even really pushing it?
I think, just go, just go.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I can understand, like, you know, I'm saying this in
my own defense.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
I guess, wait a minute, did you say three?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
No, but I can understand it happening a few times
if there's like or not conflict, but but like things
working against.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You, or like.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
What's the right way to put this? You know, like
you're it's more so you didn't need to break up.
It's just that you needed like a little bit of
processing time.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Did you ever read The Alchemist? No, Okay, there's a
part in that book about I hope it's The Alchemist
where they talk about like when you're on the right path,
the universe rises to meet you. And so it's like,
if there are these things you're describing, like there's things
working against you, there's your answer, you know, like it's
not time yet the universe like at the if you're
(21:32):
on the right path, the universe rises to meet you.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
But I think sometimes there's things working against you that
you can kind of put aside for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
But I could see how like the processing, like I
can see for me personally, I'll say that like I
was in a very I'm still in a healing phase
of my journey like I was. I feel like it's
taken me a long time to get right and like
emotionally open to new things, like I just wasn't emotionally open.
So I think like when you would start dating and
(22:03):
it's like you find yourself pulling back or like I
don't know if this is like going to work because
I'm not ready, Like I hear that, Like that to
me is like I get it, Like you're to your point,
Like it's almost like I need time to process what
would you know, my heartbreak? Yeah, and then I can
be more available for you.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Right because sometimes like you don't know when the next
relationship is going to happen, and sometimes it presents itself
and you're not quite there yet. You're not quite ready,
but you don't want to like let go of this thing.
That seems really amazing, that's right in front of you,
and that really could propel you forward in like healing
from this other person.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
But would it ever be like you're doing that at
their expense and maybe maybe better, Yeah, you're doing it
at their expense, and maybe it's better to say, I'm
going to you're worth it to me to get it
together and heal and get myself feeling open and when
i am, I'm going to call you and I'm going
to you're available, and if you still are, i'd love
(23:03):
to go out.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah. See, that's so hard for my brain to comprehend.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, because you're scared of losing the thing. Yeah yeah,
but it would almost be like I see this house
that I really want to buy. It's four million dollars.
I don't have four million dollars right now in the bank,
so I want it. I'm making this up. This is
like random, but like I have to save up and
like get to a place of buying the house. It's
not like I put myself out there and buy this
(23:28):
thing that I can't afford right now when I'm not ready, and.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
What if the house isn't there And.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It isn't but I wasn't ready. Yeah, so it wasn't
mine right, Like I don't I'm not saying I'm great
at this. I'm just saying like that to me would
be the healthy way to do it right.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
And it is tough to like be in this space
of healing and know what it's like to be on
the other.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Side of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So it's like this thing where like you want this person,
but you find your brain going avoidance or like I'm
not quite there, and so it's in and out, Like
I feel myself sometimes I'll be like very in and
then I find myself kind of recoiling to quiet.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
That's it's so interesting to me because bringing up the
attachment styles of the avoidance, Like, like I said, I
don't think attachment styles matter in the right relationship, but
I do think that those things come up for us,
That avoidance comes up because it gets a little scary,
It gets a little bit like I'm putting myself out
there to this person. I'm still healing from the pain
(24:36):
from another person. Yeah, and it's kind of like that
that residual pain comes up and you're like, I better
protect myself so that avoidance.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, I better protect myself, and.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think it's a really hard thing to push through.
It's definitely hard to be on that side of the relationship.
And like I said, I've been on both sides and
it's hard for both parties. But I think it's one
of those things that you have to recognize it and
you have to speak it and say it, because if
you don't, then you're your other person's in the dark wondering,
like you said, like do they like me?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Like what's going on?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I think it's like identify the monster and call it
out by name. I mean, I think I have gotten
good at that part. Like I just think if you
do that, get ahead of it. It doesn't mean, like
I a slow burn to me is a beautiful thing,
Like it doesn't mean to be Yeah, Like you can
uncover things and start to find exciting things about people
(25:30):
over time that you're like, wow, that was just a
really great conversation that we probably wouldn't have had two
months ago. Like the relationship is developing slowly.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
The slow burn is like good for your nervous system.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
It's good for your nervous system, especially you and I
because we've been rattled a bit, like everyone has to
some extent, but I think ours are fresh and it
is good for your nervous system.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Like I don't need someone that's gonna confuse me right now.
I probably wouldn't even be in it if someone was
confusing to me, you.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Know, like no, And I think there's different kinds of
people too, Like I have one thing I'm realizing about
even just like in our friend group talking to people,
women are all different, like they're all they come to
it with such different ideas of what it looks like
to be in a relationship with someone. I've had friends
say to me that they really think, like likely they're
never going to be with the same person their whole life,
(26:26):
Like to them, that's not normal. Or they feel like
serial monogamy is a beautiful thing and you have stages
of your life that you're with certain people and then
a new season might bring a new love. I respect that.
I know for me, that's not what I want. And
like a lot of people are like, well, I'll stay
in this relationship if X, Y and Z happen, you know,
(26:47):
but it's conditional. And it got me thinking about like
my mom and dad and how my dad would have
never left my mom, my dad, my mom drank for years.
She gave it up and she's an amazing woman. But
it's like he could easily said, yeah, she was an alcoholic.
I had to leave. He didn't. He stayed with her,
and like he would tell you that was the single
(27:07):
best decision he ever made. She would say the same thing.
They are each other's people. And it's like my sister
wildly in love with her husband. She it would have
to be she'd have to be beaten to leave him.
Like there's but there's some people who would say that
that's silly. You're a woman and it's twenty twenty five.
If you're ready to grow in another direction, you just
(27:27):
do it like it's time to move on. And I
respect that too, Like you can leave for lots of
different reasons. I'll never leave my children. I mean that's
unconditional life. They are here forever. I want a partner
that I feel that way about. This is unconditional, Like
I am here for the duration, and so I don't
care what befalls you, like it doesn't matter, like we are.
(27:50):
And so to me, I'm kind of a rarity in
that way. I'm a little bit of a traditionalist. I'm
a little bit I know that that's not how everybody
sees the world. They might strive for that, but they're not,
you know, they're women of this general, this new in
this age, are very get my needs met. And if
I'm not, there's this was a beautiful season with a
(28:11):
loving goodbye, and that's brilliant. It's just not me.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
It's not me either, Honestly. It's like I want to
find that solid thing.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And I think you know, you you use the comparison
of your parents, and I think that can apply to
so many aspects of a relationship. You know, you're going
to hit highs and lows. You're going to have you're
going to lose a parent eventually, and it's going to
make you crash out. Like you could face a medical
issue that's really difficult to get through, and it's like
(28:42):
life is going to throw you obstacles and it's like
you have to decide whether or not you're going to
like stick together through that. And I mean, I can't
imagine being like, well, my partner's mom died and she's
having a really hard time, so I'm going to leave,
you know, And.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
It maybe that that's why what would happen is that
your partner's mom dies, your partner starts getting depressed. Now
your partner's in bed for multiple hours a day. She
just lost her job, Now she doesn't have any money.
Now you're fighting, and pretty soon your your friends are
telling you, Melissa, you have to take care of yourself.
You can't continue down this road, and you're enabling her.
(29:18):
You have to do what's best for you in this moment.
And that's beautiful, but that's just not how I see
the world. Like, you committed to her. Her mother died,
she's depressed, you're to me you need to be bedside
helping her.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, well and helping get out of the funk. Yeah,
finding a path forward together, not enabling it together together.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, it's like you'd realize we're dinosaurs, Like this is
not like we're not This isn't the norm. Like the
more people I have really deep.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I'm sorry, dinosaurs really threw me off because I'm like,
what do you mean.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
We're like we are the exception to the rule.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Okay, I thought you meant like we're like old ladies.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
No, we're not old ladies.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
We're all just dinosaurs.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
No, Like I know a thirty eight year old who
thinks like we do. But there's plenty of people who
would say that that is not the way the world
works anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, it is. If that's what you're going to find
other people like minded people.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
You are for sure, so, and especially the second time around,
because it's like there's no children involved now. So it's like,
I truly like if I pick to be with you,
I'm being with you strictly because you're bringing some wonderful
value to our existence that's already here. That's pretty wonderful now.
So it's just like it's not like we share this
(30:43):
thing that I have to stay mm hmmm, because you
know I don't. I just want that. I want thirty
forty years with somebody.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, absolutely, and that amount of time with a nice
calm nervous.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
System, with a calm nervous system.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Perfect. Let's circle back to the grass analogy.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, the grass analogy, I forget.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
So how does that all play in here?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So you can have a beautiful green lawn, but it's
loaded with chemicals that's going to kill you. So that
to me is about when you meet someone and it's
like instant fucking fireworks. You meet them at a party
and you're like, Wow, oh my god, I've got to
be with this person. I'm so attracted to them. They
are a beautiful quote unquote green lawn. But it's just
like when you start to unpack it, it's like, many times,
(31:31):
what's beneath all that is there's a lot of things
that aren't compatible, aren't and looks are going to fade,
Like that attraction is going to morph and change. It's
like the bigger things that are behind the curtain are
really important and sometimes they're wonderful, but sometimes they're not.
You know, I dated a woman who I met and
I was like, oh my god, she's so fucking amazing.
(31:53):
She had this amazing, really interesting job and I was
fascinated by her, completely dialed in. But it's like the
more I got to know her, the more I realized,
like she was a huge drinker, she was a huge partier.
She ate like horribly unhealthy. She you know, would stay
(32:14):
up really late and then sleep till like noon. That's
like not me, Like that would never be competitive. It
actually made me gave me the ick a little bit
because I'm like, I've got kids, like I'm working, like
I to me, it was like everything about her besides
that initial chemistry was bad for me. But it's just
like it takes a while to see all the chemicals
in the lawn that I'll kill you.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, exactly. You can see that green lawn. Yeah, that
looks really nice and I'd like, I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Go lay on the lawn.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, but really literally.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
Real quick. Literally.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
But but not to say like she's perfect for somebody else.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
That she has.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
She's like adventure and fun and Saturday Night will never
be boring like that. She's going to be perfect for somebody,
it's just not going to be me.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I think that's where you have to, like, don't get
too wrapped up in the story you've built about this
exciting firework that you just met, because there's a whole
lot behind that that you have no idea about yet.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, and fireworks are dangerous. Let's fourth of July.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
It's true, this metaphor just goes on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
It does. Yeah, can't handle fireworks?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Tell me a time about you dating a firework?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Where it turned oh my first relationship.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, although I don't know that didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Necessarily start out as like a firework thing. I think
the fireworks started because of her like push pull.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, and why are we attracted? It's like that is
so true. It's like this intermittent reinforcement like the dog,
like Papa's dog. It's like if you you literally do
this intermittent reinforcement and it strengthens that pattern so much
where it's like you give me a little I'm back in,
then take a little away.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, because I remember initially I was like I don't
know if I'm not attracted, you know, But then it
was like that push pool dynamic came in and it
was like I fell for it so hard. Yeah, and
that created the chemistry.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
But that's like my childhood shit, you know, that's like
a pick me that it pick me.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It comes from coming from a family full of four
kids where you didn't get enough attention, you know, like
and you have to work for attention, right, like that
kind of thing. So luckily I can recognize that dynamic
now and I would never again go for that kind
of bs.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
But you know somewhere that like you see now where
you're like, oh there it is.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
When someone's not responsive, like I think to respond.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I think that is the biggest thing that I learned throughout,
like my time with like dating apps or just in
general being single is if someone's.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Not like matching my energy.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And I'm not even saying like you gotta text me
like every day or anything like that, but if I
text you and you don't respond for like a couple
of days.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
You're not in it.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
You're not interested.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You know, if we have plans and we've like tentatively.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Said like let's hang out on Saturday, and then you're
not texting me until like Saturday afternoon with maybe plans.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah you're not interested. You're not interested. But what about
even the threat of leaving me is like the pert
you know, you're dating someone and there's like this undercurrent
of like they might leave, and then maybe in a
fight they're like I'm done, and then it's like it
makes you like, yeah, like uh, you got to claw back,
like you can't lose this thing. But it's just like
(35:45):
that to me becomes like this addictive pattern of it
is to walk out the like a healthy person in
a relationship, you can take five minutes, you can go
maybe walk around the block, but I'm done and the
storm out is like really.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
And That's something I've had to like express in relationships
now is like don't like if we're in a fight,
I need to know that like this is just the thing, Everything's.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Fine, Yeah, we just nehing to see here.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Nothing to see here. I'm not leaving, like I need
that clearly established. But I'm also the one that needs
to take a walk sometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, do you think you're better at giving reassurance or
do you think you need Like I think of you
as somebody who needs reassurance and likely who gives it,
But do you like say more about that.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
I think I definitely need it and I can give it,
but sometimes I need like a little bit of time
to like.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Gather my thoughts on it.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I'm definitely one of those people that takes along a
bit longer to process than most people, especially because like
for me right now with dealing with like Pyraimio pause
kind of stuff, like my my emotions kind of shut
down to a point sometimes where I'm like, I don't
want to say anything right now because I'm like, I
I don't even know how I feel.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, do you have any thing too, like with your partner,
and like in dating in general, it's like sometimes too
I think about like my day and like how where
I'm pulled and it's like I've still I have three kids.
Two of them are yes, they're they're in college, but
they need me all the time. They call me. My
daughter calls me three times a day sometimes it just
(37:22):
needs me to hear something or needs me to know something,
or my son does the same thing. And then I
have a little one still here living here. So it's
like the polls at my attention are twenty four hours
a day, Like it's yeah, it's always. And then it's
sometimes like you date someone who maybe doesn't have kids
or as one kid, and it's like I think that
they're more open, like they have there's not as many
(37:44):
polls on there. We all have jobs. I get that.
Like I'm not saying you're not busy. I'm just saying, like,
when you have three kids, the poll at your your
emotional bandwidth, I call it emotional labor. It's like it's
it's a lot of mine is spent. And so then
it's like you're trying to have a relationship and it's
like I don't I'm I want to do this thing,
but I'm I'm pulled so much all the fucking time.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
And that makes your person feel like they're like yeah,
fourth and the priority.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Exactly, which is not true and isn't fair. So that's
sometimes when I have to say, like maybe I'm just
you know, not ready, or maybe I'm I don't know,
like it's harder, it's it's different.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
It is really hard and and I feel that too.
You know, my kids are pretty.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Independent in a lot of ways, but like sometimes at
work it's really busy, or I'm working on writing something
and I need to really be focused on that or
editing the podcast.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You know, a podcast take time. And even if that
like that stuff is work stuff, and they probably have
work stuff too. But even if your kids are independent,
there's still like an overriding responsibility I have for these
three people all the time. So it's like, even if
I'm not actively making your dinner, I'm thinking about the
fact that you need to eat tonight and get to soccer.
So it's just like this whole other thing that creates
(39:01):
Sometimes for me, at least, it might look like I'm
pulling away, but the truth is I'm just my emotional band.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, I mean, and it's summer, Like, God, my daughter's
in swim team. We've got two swim meets in the
next few days, like there's keeping them entertained, and you know,
my work just keeps going, It just keeps going.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Are they on their iPads? How long have they been
on there?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I have so much iPad guilt right now you wouldn't
even know, like.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I'm in it. I think that's another thing of like
sometimes you're you're also just at two different places with
people at what bandwidth you have to emotionally spend on
the relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
It's also hot as funk outside. I can't even send
them outside.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
No, I know, it's so tiring.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
I'll have like deep facts called on me if they
come out.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
My little one is at my parents for he does
like a week of camp there. It's like a sailing camp,
and so he can't be on his iPad really, and
they're like entertaining him. And I'm so really eve that
he has a week of like fishing and beach and sailing,
like he's not sitting there and it's like, my I'm
like so thankful because I'm like, if he was here,
(40:10):
he would be on his iPad like video games anyway.
So I guess, yeah, slow burn versus fireworks, I think
both can be positive. We have a lot of friends
who have met in the firework realm, so I know
they're like, it works, it works, we're gonna be together forever,
and you probably will, but not always, like sometimes it
does take a while to unpack and like see somebody
(40:32):
in a new way.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
I'm scared of fireworks at this point.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I know, I think you and I have been burned.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I'm like, I'll take the slow burn, and I shouldn't
act like there wasn't like attraction or anything. There was
an instant attraction the moment I saw Meredith for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah. Oh yeah, it's always contractions there. It's calm.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
It's always been calm.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, And it's like, we don't know what that feels like.
So it's like your body is trying to your brain
is trying to identify what that is. But you're right, yeah,
like that's a beautiful fucking thing. If your nervousness isn't
on fire, you're not anxious.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
You know. So I'll leave you guys on this note.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
At the lake house, I made a video of everybody
and I put it all together and I ask people
on TikTok to pick the straight woman in the group
and the people leading the charge of who is straight.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Yeah, Maryanna and my Meredith, Oh my.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
God, yeah, that's tracks actually, so they would have been
at the far end.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yes, they were at the far end of the spectrum
when we set it up.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
So that is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
And my sister commented and she was like, listen, I
already know the answer to this, and yeah, you're definitely
not getting any.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Guesses, Melissa, what about me?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
How do I how gay? Did I look?
Speaker 3 (41:40):
You look pretty gay?
Speaker 2 (41:41):
But I feel like, you know, maybe you'll get a
few guesses in there.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
So will you tell me if I get a guess?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I will, But you know, it's funny and I'm only
going to say this to on the podcast for our
listeners at the moment.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
But no one in that group is straight, not totally straight, No,
not totally straight.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah, the lesbian gay agenda's gotten her exactly, unlike Jojo exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Okay, I'll not note then.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
All right, all right, talk soon, talk soon, all right bye.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Rate us and write a review on Apple podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I, s A and Ali A.
L l I at gmail dot com, or follow us
on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
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