August 13, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of Let’s Talk Pricing, PPS President Kevin Mitchell sits down with Ebrahim ElEbiary, CPP, and PPS Director of MarCom & Key Accounts Angie Jackson for a candid conversation about women in leadership—both in pricing and beyond.
Inspired by a discussion at our Dallas event, the conversation explores leadership styles, the importance of “owning your narrative,” and how women leaders navigate male-dominated industries while maintaining balance and fulfillment. Ebrahim also offers his perspective as a male ally and reflects on the unique strengths women bring to pricing and commercial strategy.
Before wrapping up, we circle back to the pricing world, connecting these leadership insights to the skills pricing professionals need to grow, lead, and influence in their organizations.
🎯 Want to go deeper?
Ebrahim will lead Pricing & Sales Leadership – Bridging the Gap as a live virtual workshop on September 12, 2025. Attendees will earn 1 CPP Credit and receive a savings code for a 2025 in-person PPS event.
Register now: https://resources.pricingsociety.com/play?pid=03e7a6d2-9a11-4be9-a2c7-c338a49225f8
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to Let's Talk Pricing, your connection to the
voices, stories, and strategies shaping the pricing world.
Each episode, we go beyond theory into the practical,
timely conversations that help you lead with confidence and
drive results. Let's start the show.
(00:22):
Very good day, everyone. My name is Kevin Mitchell.
I'm from Professional Pricing Society, and I want to offer a
hearty welcome to the Let's TalkPricing podcast.
Today, we're going to step into a slightly different, but very,
very important conversation. We're going to be talking today
about women in leadership. And this episode was inspired by
(00:45):
a conversation between our guest, Mr. Ibrahim Lbiari and
PPS, his own Angie Jackson, Director of Marketing and
Communications during our Dallasconference in the spring of
2025. We felt that this topic was
worthy of a much broader conversation.
And so joining us today are Mr. Ibrahim El Biari.
(01:08):
He is a long time PPS member, heis ACPP.
He has spent 15 years working across geographies and
industries in pricing and revenue management.
A lot of us know him as the revenue management leader for
Goodyear Commercial in Europe. And now Ibrahim is pursuing A
doctorate degree. He is going to focus his
(01:31):
research on the interaction between pricing and sales, which
is very near and dear to all of our hearts.
And he's also the founder of a coaching company that supports
professional development. So Ibrahim, welcome and thank
you so much for being here with us today.
And also we all know Angie Jackson, we are also joined
today. Angie Jackson is PPS Director of
(01:53):
marketing and communications andkey accounts.
She is also a certified pricing professional and of course, a
member of the PPS team that we all know.
And if you've been around PPS events, of course you have met
Angie and have dealt with her and our teams as well.
So Angie and Ibrahim, thank you so much for joining us today.
(02:15):
Thanks for having me. All right, we will go ahead and
get started. Ibrahim, first of all, from your
perspective, Sir, what you see as the current state of
leadership in the corporate world and even more
specifically, if we look at, if we look at pricing and revenue
management organizations and departments, how do you see the
(02:36):
current state of leadership in organizations worldwide right
now? Well, the the landscape overall
landscape of leadership is, it'schanging quite a bit at the
moment because the rules of the game are changing.
You have technology that is changing.
It's like when the Internet was introduced.
Now with AI taking full-fledged capabilities that we are seeing,
(03:01):
it's posing different questions and introducing different
capabilities. There's also the sustainability
demands both from the society and from the individuals, from
the customers as well. So that is another element which
is changing the leadership landscape.
And 3rd element is the generational change awareness.
(03:26):
So there's the whole change of approach internal from the
companies, from the employees, from the associates, which is
asking questions of the leadership that were not asked
20 years ago, 15 years ago and the external side represented by
the customers and represented bythe regulatory side.
(03:48):
So bring all those together and the landscape is not what it
used to be. And that demands the leadership
to be more aware and reacting different, act actually not only
reacting, but proactively on their toes in a very different
manner and engaging, very different skill set.
(04:08):
If we look at pricing specifically, there are two
elements that come on top of that.
One, which is the change from technical to strategy.
It's no longer the nitty gritty.It's more how does it translate
into a strategic input into the company and beyond goals.
(04:30):
The second thing is balancing the science and the influence.
There is always an aura around pricing where it's a black box,
you know, like especially as it came more into algorithms, it
became a true magic almost the dark arts.
And that science is important. But what is more important is
(04:52):
that shift to the influence, to the cross functional work,
embedding it into other functions, into the
storytelling, into the boardrooms and senior management
and also as a thought leadershippowerhouse.
Pricing has that shift where it's connecting all the dots and
(05:14):
it has the luxury to be a thought leader in saying watch
out, we're about to hit the bumpor watch out, there's a ditch
and we can make that ditch a huge opportunity for us and our
customers. And so that is a big change
versus a couple of decades ago for pricing.
(05:36):
Yes, absolutely. And we have, as you mentioned,
quite a few changes there. And I think what's interesting
is some of those are technological changes, some of
those are people changes. You mentioned the generational
differences and the changes there and some are kind of
externalities. When we look at sustainability,
when we look at the way that we have to combine the science
(06:00):
along with the influence there. This comes from several
different dimensions as you mentioned.
And that just makes it one of the fun things about our part of
the business world is all of thedifferent areas that we have to
connect with and that we have todeal with as well.
So let me ask you this. In what ways have you seen
pricing and the pricing functionevolve in terms of who has
(06:24):
leadership roles and how leadership is expressed?
First, there there's the elementof having pricing as its own
function. So there has been new positions
created being Chief value officer or VP for pricing or
revenue management as VP and so on.
(06:46):
So to start with that that has brought a seat on the table and
a leadership presence that is different than revenue
management or pricing, just reporting into sales or
reporting into finance, which amplifies a bit the the voice
and the resources available for pricing.
(07:08):
The second element on the changeis how much of the technical
ability and the technological ability can be employed.
So whenever pricing needed some aid in terms of computing power,
in terms of resources, it was always an uphill battle to prove
that value. That uphill battle is still
(07:31):
there, don't get me wrong, but it kind of eased a bit because
the proven value of having revenue management in place and
functional is already proven through and through across
industries, across geographies. The third element of that
leadership is the cross functional element and I
(07:54):
emphasize that because the more pricing leaders cover of other
functions, the more effective they are in connecting and
collecting and implementing. So if you have a pricing leader
who did a stint in sales, who did the stint in finance, who
(08:17):
served in supply chain and then moved into revenue management,
they know how to talk to different people.
They can decipher the the the signals equally, they can read
the market in a more comfortablemanner.
Also hand in hand, they know howto rely on the long serving
(08:37):
expertise that is developed in pricing because it's all
developed overnight. So it's the depth and breadth
and that's the new the genre of leaders that we are seeing in
pricing now given all the experience and all the
opportunities in all fairness that have been made available
(08:57):
over the past X number of years.Excellent.
Very interesting and thank you for the insights there.
Some very exciting changes coming about South.
It's great to hear about Chief Value officers, Chief revenue
Officers, revenue management, VPS and positions like that
along with the other changes that you mentioned there.
Angie, I think you had a couple questions for Ibrahim as well.
(09:19):
Yes, so so let's dive into narratives around women in in
pricing roles and in leadership specifically.
I'd love to hear more about youryour you're coaching many women
executives. You're encouraging them to own
their narratives. That's language that you used in
our conversation. What does that mean to you and
(09:40):
and why is that so important in male dominated disciplines like
pricing? Sure.
Well, first of all, I'm speakinghere not only to women, because
women can speak to women. I'm speaking also to men opening
and holding that space. So just call it a disclaimer, if
(10:01):
you will. But with with the clients that I
work with, owning their narrative is more about actively
writing their own stories, consulting others and searching
within to come up with their own, their own reality.
So it's not something that someone else told them that they
(10:23):
have to do. It's something that they want to
do. And so a lot of time it's
defining your own story on your own terms.
That is your narrative. So for example, I want to be
perceived as a kind leader, but I'm afraid of what people would
would think. I've been told growing up in the
(10:45):
organization, I have to be aggressive, but I don't want to
be aggressive. I want to be assertive.
And there's a big difference. So we work together around that
narrative. What do you want?
What is the story that you are writing about yourself, not what
your father or what your cousin or what your manager who is a
man who is not you told you you have to act like.
(11:09):
So that is a big shift of what do I want and how do I express
it so that I show up as I want to show up, not as I'm expected
or someone else wants me to showup.
And that and that goes a long way in terms of leadership.
It's it's a small change that goes a long, long way for the
(11:34):
person, for the leader herself and those around her.
I think so too, you know, as someone who is on the better
side of mid career, right? I have worked, seen a lot of
leaders, especially women in particular, that are success
cases that I want to emulate andones that are less so perhaps.
(11:58):
And, and something that as I think about my own leadership,
what I learned is the importanceof authenticity.
So I think that we're we're on the same level there.
One of my favorite women that I've worked for.
She is a very graceful and poised human being.
I am neither of those things. And that's absolutely OK.
(12:20):
There are there are things abouther that I can emulate, but
those aren't two of them. So how do how do I be able to
take what it is that I found success and then be able to also
add office authenticity to my own story in order to kind of
mold into the the leader that that's best best serves me and
the people I partner with. So thank you for that.
(12:43):
OK, so let's let's jump in. Communicating across genders can
sometimes present subtle but impactful challenges.
What patterns have you noticed in women leaders when they
navigate these dynamics, especially in pricing or in the
commercial space? It's different from one person
to the other, but if I'm to generalize a little bit, women
(13:03):
tend to be more aware and balanced when it comes to risk
taking. Men in general tend to jump head
first. They're too aggressive on risk
and and research shows that women are more perceptive of
let's say more thought through risk taking versus jumping in
(13:27):
and hoping for the best. So that already brings in a nice
balanced view into pricing and and also into leadership.
The second element around it, which is quite big is the
element of emotional intelligence.
When that communication happens,there is a higher element of
(13:51):
collaboration versus competition.
Competition is not bad per SE. I'm saying it's the healthy side
of collaboration and competitionthat women bring through that
higher sense of EQ. So EQ has many many elements.
Women score higher on empathy, on emotional awareness and on
(14:15):
interpersonal skills. Men score higher on
self-confidence and assertiveness.
They also score higher on stresstolerance, albeit in specific
fields so not to be taken in absolute.
And both are are relatively similar on the emotionally
(14:38):
detached decision making and menhave a slight advantage
numerically on this one. So if I look at empathy,
emotional awareness and interpersonal skills where women
score higher across cultures than men, then when that
communication happens, women bring a lot.
So there is a huge, huge benefitin that cross gender dialogue
(15:04):
happening more effectively whereboth parties win a lot.
So women get more of that self-confidence and
assertiveness that men stand outwith a bit on the stress
tolerance. And men learn a lot about
empathy, about balancing risk orthinking through risk taking and
(15:27):
having that more of the sensitivity around the emotional
awareness. I appreciate the discussion of
empathy. Something that has been in the
forefront of my mind is that if you want to go fast, you go
alone, and if you want to go far, you go together.
And that sense of empathy is a key component of collaboration.
(15:49):
So let me ask a follow up question.
Some of the women leaders you work with, I understand, raise a
flag about striking balance between confidence, capability,
and maintaining a sense of joy and fulfillment in their work.
Why is this balance so critical and increasingly so post
pandemic? Well, leadership without joy and
(16:10):
belief risks burnout. So that comfort, that
authenticity, that well-being isquite closely linked with
longevity. It's not just about performance
in the short term, it's about thriving, which is more long
(16:32):
term oriented. So having that confidence in
building, committing, learning from mistakes or or setbacks,
that generates that long term view.
And you can only do that if there's a sense of joy and
belief in, in what you're doing and how you're showing up.
(16:53):
If the 2 are not aligned, there is a problem because then you
cannot sustain it for a long time or you sustain it at a
great cost. And sometimes I don't want to
take that cost. So that, that that is where the
balance is important. And just to revert back to the
point of empathy in in the research that I was running on
(17:17):
on pricing, sales interaction, one of the key elements that was
brought up to improve the interaction between sales and
pricing was empathy. And 60% of the respondents were
were male. So if 60% of men are saying we
need more empathy, OK, that is acall out for something that
(17:41):
women do naturally better and stand out.
So there is more to learn from each other and improve how we
can get collectively more empathetic in in the workplace.
All right, Angie Ibrahim, thank you so much.
This has been a great conversation so far.
We are going to take a quick break for our sponsors, but
(18:04):
everyone please stay with us, the Let's Talk Pricing podcast.
We'll be right. Back we're heading to Las Vegas
this October 21st through 24th for PPS Profitable Pricing's
preeminent conference. Four days of bold strategies,
practical tools, and real world solutions to help you boost
margins, lead with confidence, and accelerate your career.
(18:26):
Connect with pricing leaders, sharpen your skills, and leave
ready to make an immediate impact.
Early bird pricing ends September 19th, so don't miss
your chance to save. And if you're bringing your
team, be sure to check out our Bundle Group rates for even more
value. Secure.yourspottoday@pricingsociety.com/P
PS (18:45):
LV25. Welcome back, everyone.
Thank you for staying with us and welcome back to the Let's
Talk Pricing podcast. We're going to jump back in and
continue our conversation with Ibrahim Elbiari and Angie
Jackson. Angie, I think you had another
question. Please, ma'am.
Yeah. To pick back up where we were,
(19:06):
you talked about the sales team and and them saying they would
like to build their empathy skills.
You've observed that when women amplify their voices, not only
does their personal happiness grow, but the people around them
are lifted as well. What do you think about that
dynamic? Well, currently we're operating
below our full capacity as a society and as company.
(19:30):
So if we engage more of our capability, we can operate at a
higher level and a better level.So when when women get this
space and men also listen and provide that space, there is
more flow of fresh ideas, there is easier collaboration and
(19:52):
effectiveness and how work is done.
So all that leads to more functionality and effectiveness.
So I truly believe that. Bringing the women the space
they deserve would improve the overall social and professional
(20:14):
well-being just out of your engaging more of your power,
which is not today fully engaged.
So just to give you some numbersaround it, if if I look at the
top 500 companies from a market cap perspective, it's 11% of the
CE OS are women, which is a hugecelebration that now it hit the
(20:36):
the double digit, but it's 11%. If I look at the top 25 market
cap, sorry, top 20 market cap companies, there is zero.
That is not a well balanced picture.
Given that the population is 5050, given that in pricing the
leadership position represented by women is 20% and then the top
(20:59):
CE OS or the CE OS of the top 20is 0.
That is not balanced. Balance is not necessarily 5050.
It might not. It might be that some men don't
want to participate, some women don't want participate.
That's their own choice. But the difference is too big.
So I don't believe that if we are a car, I don't believe we're
(21:22):
using all our cylinders at the moment.
Yes, agreed. Something to think about is as
we talk about pricing and building teams and and
collaboration between thinkers that bring different cultural
backgrounds, different generational contexts, just
different gifts to the table. Where can communication and
(21:45):
cross functional collaboration be amplified in order to be a
jumping a springboard for leadership so that we can help
bridge the gap between pricing teams and the rest of the
business at large? Well, there is we we spoke about
empathy earlier and building empathy, reducing that blind
(22:07):
spots, improving also the the other or the collective success.
That is a key element that can help move us forward on not only
on leadership, but also on generating more ideas and
generating creative ways of approaching the market.
So and, and here is where women stand out.
(22:31):
That element of empathy, that element of connection with other
functions. Not that men cannot do it, women
are just more effective at it. So there is an element of cross
learning that that can happen. The other element is how can we
win together. So if if I look at sales and
(22:52):
pricing, it's not that I need towin as pricing only when sales
lose on the country, it's it's it needs to be a win win
element. And I know it's easy to say it's
much harder to do because it generates or it needs to
generate a step of understandingwhat counts for my counterpart,
(23:16):
be it sales, be it supply chain,be it the customer.
And then how can that meet with what I'm looking for?
And the answer could be that we disengage versus bleeding each
other out. And and that is that is one of
the changes that the landscape of leadership is more and more
(23:36):
seeing nowadays, not only in pricing but overall.
I'm glad you brought up blind spots because but now more than
ever, I hear conversations around that.
And if I think about the historical perspective of of my
career, what are some ways that we can identify or seek out a
space to identify our blind spots?
(23:58):
Well, Angie, that that is not aneasy one, but it's one that it's
one that is paired with hidden strengths as well.
So it's hidden strengths and blind spots combined.
And the the more the more we expand our questions and open
ourselves for input, the easier it becomes.
(24:20):
So looking, well, we're looking at mentorships, looking at
coaching, looking at also directfeedback and how to ask for that
feedback. Not that we become feedback
junkies, it's more directed feedback.
So related to this specific skill, how am I doing?
(24:43):
What am I doing well? Where am I falling short and
developing that? That helps.
The second element is being opento receive all the communication
that is coming towards us. We get a lot of, I would call it
communication. Some of it is pure noise, but
also some of it is very, very valuable input.
(25:07):
And some of that input is the direct, some of it is indirect.
So the more we can open ourselves to all right, is this
a valid point beat criticism even What is one thing that I
can take away from that and workwith it That already helps.
So the hidden strengths is important because it becomes
(25:29):
our, our lever or our, you know,stick that we get like almost
our walking stick that we can step into those blind spots or
weaknesses that we want to improve on.
So it's those two imbalance. The more we can, or the more
diversity we can bring in views,in people we ask, in situations
(25:53):
we experience, the easier it is to to flash out some of those
blind spots and also bring out some of those hidden strengths
that we sometimes overlook. And they can be precious.
Excellent. Thank you, Angie.
Thank you, Ibrahim. Ibrahim, I have one question for
you. What makes a man keen on women
(26:17):
finding their confidence and feeling empowered?
I'd love to hear your perspective on how you became so
interested in this topic and whyyou think it's important for men
also to engage in these conversations.
Well, it's always been a, a passion of mine because women
have such a critical role all through, all through history,
(26:42):
but the most influential people in, in, in my life have been
women. And I just, it's, it's
surprising for me. Like for instance, when I look
at some of the numbers we we spoke about, it makes me wonder
how so or how we can change thatand bring more element of
fairness into the equation. So that, that is just a
(27:06):
background part. But it's not about capability.
It's more about the approach like women are capable, they
don't get sufficient space to express themselves at times.
And in other times, there are double standards that get in the
way of that expression and that double standards, regardless
what the, the reason is. So what can we do?
(27:29):
And by we here, I mean as a society, but also I mean as men.
So raising that awareness of menof holding that space, letting
that expression come across, because as we touched earlier,
when women move, the whole society benefits.
But at the end of the day, it's,it's I see women getting their
(27:53):
fair share, complementary and necessary for me as as a human
being and as a professional. And that's why I'm hoping that
more voices, more women voices as well would speak of of the
topic and well as well as men holding that space.
(28:14):
Not that women need someone to hold it for them.
It's a facilitation and collaboration more than anything
else. Yes, of course.
And as you mentioned, since men are about 89% of Fortune 500 CE
OS and 100% of the top 20 or 25 in market cap cap there, why do
(28:36):
you believe men in leadership, particularly if they're in more
technical or analytical spaces as ours is a lot of the time,
why should they play a more active role in advancing women's
leadership? Well, first of all, they would
get a good checkpoint of the risk profile that they're
(28:56):
taking. If nothing else, the risk
appetite for men is much higher,which can be more dangerous.
And we saw it in in 2008, we sawit in other cases of history.
But also adding to to the risk profile, there is more the
relationship based on the higherEQ performance, be it empathy,
(29:22):
be it the interpersonal skills that women bring to the table.
If you want the smartness aroundthat interaction and knowing
that we as pricing, but also as companies need to work more and
enrich that connective being around.
(29:44):
And then finally, but it's that harmonious and fresh ideas that
keep on coming across. So there's a lot to gain from
from women participating and being allowed to express
themselves. Not only participation, it's
active participation and being heard and listened to.
(30:05):
Excellent. Thank you so much for the answer
there and go ahead, Angie. Yeah, I appreciate you making
some generalities and, and comparing and contrasting
leadership styles that you typically see between different
genders and positions of leadership and talking about
some of the strengths in styles and some of the challenges.
When you when you juxtapose those items, are there any
(30:28):
aspects of leadership you've seen women bring to pricing
teams or commercial strategy that deserves more attention or
visibility or anything that might surprise our listeners
about a capability or a strengththat you've seen women bring to
the table? I've seen women taking a bit
more time to understand and digest, and once they they have
(30:51):
that done, they move much fasterinto the storytelling and the
action part. And that was thinking back to
one of my earlier managers in pricing.
She was mistaken to be slow, butthat was not true.
She was slow on the first part understanding, but she got the
(31:13):
story right once she got into the all right, now that the
facts are clear, let's get going.
She was super fast and extremely, extremely accurate
and effective in the storytelling in in the
engagement on the board level. So there was a misconception on
(31:34):
the speeds of of that. So it can it can be mistaken
that a lot is is happening earlyon means that it's being
effective where where it's not the case.
Again, generalizing a bit, but my experience and what I've
observed is that women take thatextra bit of time to understand,
(31:58):
to even criticize what's happening within the pricing
kitchen before moving forward. Once that move forward happens,
it happens with more, with more positive force, with more also
finesse, and with better story to tell because the story is
complete. Yeah, it's reminding me of women
(32:19):
just tend to have the propensityto ready aim fire instead of
fire ready aim, which can which can sometimes be the the
sequence for different folks. So making sure we createspace
for that readying period. And and just because you you
have you want to weigh all the options and and think through
(32:41):
process towards outcomes, doesn't mean that you're a
slower mover or thinker, but perhaps just want to examine the
landscape of possibilities before you jump in.
I like that. Excellent.
Ibrahim El Biari and Angie Jackson, thank you so much.
We are having a wonderful, powerful discussion so far.
(33:02):
We're going to take one more short break and when we come
back, we're going to bring our conversation back to the pricing
world and we're going to explorehow some of the themes that
Ibrahim has mentioned are going to reflect and show up in our
part of the business world. So we'll be right back with more
of the Let's Talk Pricing podcast.
(33:23):
This October 21st through 24th, PPS Profitable in Las Vegas is
all about you, the pricing professional ready to navigate
today's challenges and lead withconfidence.
In just four days, you'll gain the strategies, tools, and
connections to drive margin growth, strengthen your
influence, and future proof yourcareer.
Early bird pricing ends September 19th and our group
(33:45):
rates make it easy to bring yourwhole team so you can cover more
ground and return with a shared plan.
Make the investment in yourself.Visit pricingsociety.com/P PS:
LV25 to register. Thanks, everyone, and welcome
back to Let's Talk Pricing. We're going to pick up where we
(34:08):
left off with one of our favorite topics.
Of course, Ibrahim, We're going to bring it back to pricing.
You have a great new course fromProfessional Pricing Society.
We're happy to partner with you on that.
You can find information about it on our website.
Your course is entitled Pricing and Sales Leadership, Bridging
the Gap. And of course, you talk about
(34:30):
translation skills for pricing professionals, the ability that
we have to bridge technical insight along with storytelling
and business execution and otherrelated items there where we
have to kind of worry about the Venn diagram between the art and
the science of pricing. Do you see any overlap between
(34:51):
these translation skills, as youcall it, and the type of
communication that women leadersoften excel at doing?
The short answer is yes. The more detailed answer is when
looking at the elements that facilitate that gap bridging,
(35:14):
you look at things like trust, you look at things like
understanding, look at things like transparency, all, all
those are elements that research, well including my
doctorate research has shown that it increases the
interaction and builds that collaboration significantly.
(35:37):
So if we link it to what we weretalking about earlier with with
different gender and and diverselayers of communication, you
need the technical part, you need the emotional part.
And the richer you have that representation in your pricing
team, the easier it is to extendit and receive it from other
(36:01):
teams, be it sales or others, including also external teams.
So when you look at trust, you need empathy.
When you look at understanding, you need, you need emotional
intelligence or sorry, emotionalawareness of what the other
(36:22):
person's state of mind is when they're saying something and not
stopping at the word, but ratherlistening to the full meaning,
which women, for instance, excelat or show higher aptitude
versus versus men. At the same time, you need also
that self-confidence and assertiveness when communicating
(36:44):
certain messages and certain positions.
And that's where that diversity within your pricing team and
approach of linking with other functions becomes valuable.
Yes, very true. We have to have a whole Armada
of skills and different languages to talk with different
(37:06):
people. Of course, we in pricing know
that you cannot talk with a 25 year veteran salesperson the
same way that you would talk to a new finance MBA.
Those are maybe both in the samelanguage, but those are very,
very different conversations that might as well be in
completely different languages as well.
So that's very important. So thanks for your insights
(37:27):
there. We're going to wrap up with one
more question for you here, Ibrahim, and that is a lot of
our members are of course, pricing people who are advancing
their careers and will eventually become pricing
leaders and leaders within the organizations.
So for those of us who are with us today who are in pricing
(37:49):
roles but unsure about how they take those next steps, whether
they are men or women, what would you encourage future
pricing leaders to focus on 1st?Well to answer that question,
you can think of it as a processwith the first step being being
(38:09):
very clear on what skills and knowledge you have today.
So knowing what grounds are you standing upon, The second
element is So what does the market need or where do you want
to go? Therefore, what skills are
needed and matching A&B, it tells you what gap you need to
(38:31):
work on. The tricky part is the more time
goes on, the more skills are required of the magician that is
also known as a pricing leader because they need to be
technically savvy, they need to be very well connected, they
need to be excellent communicators, they need to be
(38:53):
amazing storytellers and the list goes on it just which which
makes it a fascinating area. Regardless what the gap that you
are working towards is, there are three elements that that you
can employ and that you can engage with.
First of all, formal education that could come in in the form
(39:17):
of courses like offered by PPS could be by a university.
Further education like a master's or a PhD could be so
many things. Then there's the other second
element, which is the network. And network is not only drawing
from people you know, it's also adding to the people you know.
(39:40):
So I can help you on this. Can you help me on that?
It's that give and take and the more you invest in that network
by giving, the more you will take from it when you need it.
But it starts by, you know, likewatering the plant so that the
plant can grow becomes a tree and then you it would bear
(40:00):
fruit. The third element is mentoring
and coaching. So that is using like mentoring
would be using the experience and the expertise of someone who
did it. Someone from a different company
even who's a pricing leader you aspire to be.
And one thing within the pricingdomain that I've observed is
(40:23):
that pricing folks are so generous with their time and
they're happy to give. So all they need to do is just
ask. So that is mentoring.
Coaching is also another great way to help work on on that next
skill. But take it one step at a time.
You know, like applying that self compassion of not trying to
(40:47):
take it all at one go, but saying for instance, for the
next 6 months I'm going to improve my knowledge and
capability on conjoint analysis.After that I'm going to take
care of how I ask questions. After that, I'll do six months
of AI prompting and so on. But take it one step at a time
(41:12):
so that you you move from strength to strength versus
overwhelm yourself. Wonderful, and thank you for the
game plan there. Appreciate your insights.
And Ibrahim and Angie, this has been a wonderful conversation.
So I thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing your
perspectives and your experiences with us also here on
(41:33):
the Let's Talk Pricing podcast. And Ibrahim, before we sign off,
is there anything else you'd like to leave our listeners
with? Do you have a final take away
for professionals, pricing professionals and other
professionals who are working onfinding their voice or
supporting others as they do find their own voices?
(41:55):
Most of prices, if not all, havesomething to say and share.
Please share it because then you're benefiting everyone, not
only yourself, but it's, it's for everyone and be the change
you want to see. So listen, absorb, share.
It just makes life a bit more fun.
(42:17):
Terrific, and thank you so much.And Ibrahim, if listeners want
to learn more about you or more about your work and your very
interesting PhD work and your other work with talking about
pricing and sales coming up, what's the best place that they
can find more information about you and about your offerings?
They could reach out to me on EBIARY at coach-ee.com or go to
(42:47):
the website on coach-ee.com. Excellent.
We will make sure to do that. Or LinkedIn or reach out to
Angie and yourself and they you know where to find me.
OK, absolutely. And we will make sure to do
that. So for Ibrahim Lbra, for Angie
Jackson, thank you so much for our discussion today.
(43:07):
And thank you for your insights and giving us a lot to think
about as well. Make sure to subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes of our podcast.
And as always, to our members across the globe, thank you so
much for being a part of the Professional Pricing Society
community. We will talk again soon and we
look forward to seeing you againsoon.
(43:28):
Ibrahim and Angie, thank you so much.
Thanks for having me. Thanks, Kevin.
Thanks Angie people. To be here.
You're listening to Let's Talk Pricing, your connection to the
voices, stories, and strategies shaping the pricing world.
Each episode, we go beyond theory into the practical,
timely conversations that help you lead with confidence and
drive results. Let's start the show.
(00:22):
Very good day, everyone. My name is Kevin Mitchell.
I'm from Professional Pricing Society, and I want to offer a
hearty welcome to the Let's TalkPricing podcast.
Today, we're going to step into a slightly different, but very,
very important conversation. We're going to be talking today
about women in leadership. And this episode was inspired by
(00:45):
a conversation between our guest, Mr. Ibrahim Lbiari and
PPS, his own Angie Jackson, Director of Marketing and
Communications during our Dallasconference in the spring of
2025. We felt that this topic was
worthy of a much broader conversation.
And so joining us today are Mr. Ibrahim El Biari.
(01:08):
He is a long time PPS member, heis ACPP.
He has spent 15 years working across geographies and
industries in pricing and revenue management.
A lot of us know him as the revenue management leader for
Goodyear Commercial in Europe. And now Ibrahim is pursuing A
doctorate degree. He is going to focus his
(01:31):
research on the interaction between pricing and sales, which
is very near and dear to all of our hearts.
And he's also the founder of a coaching company that supports
professional development. So Ibrahim, welcome and thank
you so much for being here with us today.
And also we all know Angie Jackson, we are also joined
today. Angie Jackson is PPS Director of
(01:53):
marketing and communications andkey accounts.
She is also a certified pricing professional and of course, a
member of the PPS team that we all know.
And if you've been around PPS events, of course you have met
Angie and have dealt with her and our teams as well.
So Angie and Ibrahim, thank you so much for joining us today.
(02:15):
Thanks for having me. All right, we will go ahead and
get started. Ibrahim, first of all, from your
perspective, Sir, what you see as the current state of
leadership in the corporate world and even more
specifically, if we look at, if we look at pricing and revenue
management organizations and departments, how do you see the
(02:36):
current state of leadership in organizations worldwide right
now? Well, the the landscape overall
landscape of leadership is, it'schanging quite a bit at the
moment because the rules of the game are changing.
You have technology that is changing.
It's like when the Internet was introduced.
Now with AI taking full-fledged capabilities that we are seeing,
(03:01):
it's posing different questions and introducing different
capabilities. There's also the sustainability
demands both from the society and from the individuals, from
the customers as well. So that is another element which
is changing the leadership landscape.
And 3rd element is the generational change awareness.
(03:26):
So there's the whole change of approach internal from the
companies, from the employees, from the associates, which is
asking questions of the leadership that were not asked
20 years ago, 15 years ago and the external side represented by
the customers and represented bythe regulatory side.
(03:48):
So bring all those together and the landscape is not what it
used to be. And that demands the leadership
to be more aware and reacting different, act actually not only
reacting, but proactively on their toes in a very different
manner and engaging, very different skill set.
(04:08):
If we look at pricing specifically, there are two
elements that come on top of that.
One, which is the change from technical to strategy.
It's no longer the nitty gritty.It's more how does it translate
into a strategic input into the company and beyond goals.
(04:30):
The second thing is balancing the science and the influence.
There is always an aura around pricing where it's a black box,
you know, like especially as it came more into algorithms, it
became a true magic almost the dark arts.
And that science is important. But what is more important is
(04:52):
that shift to the influence, to the cross functional work,
embedding it into other functions, into the
storytelling, into the boardrooms and senior management
and also as a thought leadershippowerhouse.
Pricing has that shift where it's connecting all the dots and
(05:14):
it has the luxury to be a thought leader in saying watch
out, we're about to hit the bumpor watch out, there's a ditch
and we can make that ditch a huge opportunity for us and our
customers. And so that is a big change
versus a couple of decades ago for pricing.
(05:36):
Yes, absolutely. And we have, as you mentioned,
quite a few changes there. And I think what's interesting
is some of those are technological changes, some of
those are people changes. You mentioned the generational
differences and the changes there and some are kind of
externalities. When we look at sustainability,
when we look at the way that we have to combine the science
(06:00):
along with the influence there. This comes from several
different dimensions as you mentioned.
And that just makes it one of the fun things about our part of
the business world is all of thedifferent areas that we have to
connect with and that we have todeal with as well.
So let me ask you this. In what ways have you seen
pricing and the pricing functionevolve in terms of who has
(06:24):
leadership roles and how leadership is expressed?
First, there there's the elementof having pricing as its own
function. So there has been new positions
created being Chief value officer or VP for pricing or
revenue management as VP and so on.
(06:46):
So to start with that that has brought a seat on the table and
a leadership presence that is different than revenue
management or pricing, just reporting into sales or
reporting into finance, which amplifies a bit the the voice
and the resources available for pricing.
(07:08):
The second element on the changeis how much of the technical
ability and the technological ability can be employed.
So whenever pricing needed some aid in terms of computing power,
in terms of resources, it was always an uphill battle to prove
that value. That uphill battle is still
(07:31):
there, don't get me wrong, but it kind of eased a bit because
the proven value of having revenue management in place and
functional is already proven through and through across
industries, across geographies. The third element of that
leadership is the cross functional element and I
(07:54):
emphasize that because the more pricing leaders cover of other
functions, the more effective they are in connecting and
collecting and implementing. So if you have a pricing leader
who did a stint in sales, who did the stint in finance, who
(08:17):
served in supply chain and then moved into revenue management,
they know how to talk to different people.
They can decipher the the the signals equally, they can read
the market in a more comfortablemanner.
Also hand in hand, they know howto rely on the long serving
(08:37):
expertise that is developed in pricing because it's all
developed overnight. So it's the depth and breadth
and that's the new the genre of leaders that we are seeing in
pricing now given all the experience and all the
opportunities in all fairness that have been made available
(08:57):
over the past X number of years.Excellent.
Very interesting and thank you for the insights there.
Some very exciting changes coming about South.
It's great to hear about Chief Value officers, Chief revenue
Officers, revenue management, VPS and positions like that
along with the other changes that you mentioned there.
Angie, I think you had a couple questions for Ibrahim as well.
(09:19):
Yes, so so let's dive into narratives around women in in
pricing roles and in leadership specifically.
I'd love to hear more about youryour you're coaching many women
executives. You're encouraging them to own
their narratives. That's language that you used in
our conversation. What does that mean to you and
(09:40):
and why is that so important in male dominated disciplines like
pricing? Sure.
Well, first of all, I'm speakinghere not only to women, because
women can speak to women. I'm speaking also to men opening
and holding that space. So just call it a disclaimer, if
(10:01):
you will. But with with the clients that I
work with, owning their narrative is more about actively
writing their own stories, consulting others and searching
within to come up with their own, their own reality.
So it's not something that someone else told them that they
(10:23):
have to do. It's something that they want to
do. And so a lot of time it's
defining your own story on your own terms.
That is your narrative. So for example, I want to be
perceived as a kind leader, but I'm afraid of what people would
would think. I've been told growing up in the
(10:45):
organization, I have to be aggressive, but I don't want to
be aggressive. I want to be assertive.
And there's a big difference. So we work together around that
narrative. What do you want?
What is the story that you are writing about yourself, not what
your father or what your cousin or what your manager who is a
man who is not you told you you have to act like.
(11:09):
So that is a big shift of what do I want and how do I express
it so that I show up as I want to show up, not as I'm expected
or someone else wants me to showup.
And that and that goes a long way in terms of leadership.
It's it's a small change that goes a long, long way for the
(11:34):
person, for the leader herself and those around her.
I think so too, you know, as someone who is on the better
side of mid career, right? I have worked, seen a lot of
leaders, especially women in particular, that are success
cases that I want to emulate andones that are less so perhaps.
(11:58):
And, and something that as I think about my own leadership,
what I learned is the importanceof authenticity.
So I think that we're we're on the same level there.
One of my favorite women that I've worked for.
She is a very graceful and poised human being.
I am neither of those things. And that's absolutely OK.
(12:20):
There are there are things abouther that I can emulate, but
those aren't two of them. So how do how do I be able to
take what it is that I found success and then be able to also
add office authenticity to my own story in order to kind of
mold into the the leader that that's best best serves me and
the people I partner with. So thank you for that.
(12:43):
OK, so let's let's jump in. Communicating across genders can
sometimes present subtle but impactful challenges.
What patterns have you noticed in women leaders when they
navigate these dynamics, especially in pricing or in the
commercial space? It's different from one person
to the other, but if I'm to generalize a little bit, women
(13:03):
tend to be more aware and balanced when it comes to risk
taking. Men in general tend to jump head
first. They're too aggressive on risk
and and research shows that women are more perceptive of
let's say more thought through risk taking versus jumping in
(13:27):
and hoping for the best. So that already brings in a nice
balanced view into pricing and and also into leadership.
The second element around it, which is quite big is the
element of emotional intelligence.
When that communication happens,there is a higher element of
(13:51):
collaboration versus competition.
Competition is not bad per SE. I'm saying it's the healthy side
of collaboration and competitionthat women bring through that
higher sense of EQ. So EQ has many many elements.
Women score higher on empathy, on emotional awareness and on
(14:15):
interpersonal skills. Men score higher on
self-confidence and assertiveness.
They also score higher on stresstolerance, albeit in specific
fields so not to be taken in absolute.
And both are are relatively similar on the emotionally
(14:38):
detached decision making and menhave a slight advantage
numerically on this one. So if I look at empathy,
emotional awareness and interpersonal skills where women
score higher across cultures than men, then when that
communication happens, women bring a lot.
So there is a huge, huge benefitin that cross gender dialogue
(15:04):
happening more effectively whereboth parties win a lot.
So women get more of that self-confidence and
assertiveness that men stand outwith a bit on the stress
tolerance. And men learn a lot about
empathy, about balancing risk orthinking through risk taking and
(15:27):
having that more of the sensitivity around the emotional
awareness. I appreciate the discussion of
empathy. Something that has been in the
forefront of my mind is that if you want to go fast, you go
alone, and if you want to go far, you go together.
And that sense of empathy is a key component of collaboration.
(15:49):
So let me ask a follow up question.
Some of the women leaders you work with, I understand, raise a
flag about striking balance between confidence, capability,
and maintaining a sense of joy and fulfillment in their work.
Why is this balance so critical and increasingly so post
pandemic? Well, leadership without joy and
(16:10):
belief risks burnout. So that comfort, that
authenticity, that well-being isquite closely linked with
longevity. It's not just about performance
in the short term, it's about thriving, which is more long
(16:32):
term oriented. So having that confidence in
building, committing, learning from mistakes or or setbacks,
that generates that long term view.
And you can only do that if there's a sense of joy and
belief in, in what you're doing and how you're showing up.
(16:53):
If the 2 are not aligned, there is a problem because then you
cannot sustain it for a long time or you sustain it at a
great cost. And sometimes I don't want to
take that cost. So that, that that is where the
balance is important. And just to revert back to the
point of empathy in in the research that I was running on
(17:17):
on pricing, sales interaction, one of the key elements that was
brought up to improve the interaction between sales and
pricing was empathy. And 60% of the respondents were
were male. So if 60% of men are saying we
need more empathy, OK, that is acall out for something that
(17:41):
women do naturally better and stand out.
So there is more to learn from each other and improve how we
can get collectively more empathetic in in the workplace.
All right, Angie Ibrahim, thank you so much.
This has been a great conversation so far.
We are going to take a quick break for our sponsors, but
(18:04):
everyone please stay with us, the Let's Talk Pricing podcast.
We'll be right. Back we're heading to Las Vegas
this October 21st through 24th for PPS Profitable Pricing's
preeminent conference. Four days of bold strategies,
practical tools, and real world solutions to help you boost
margins, lead with confidence, and accelerate your career.
(18:26):
Connect with pricing leaders, sharpen your skills, and leave
ready to make an immediate impact.
Early bird pricing ends September 19th, so don't miss
your chance to save. And if you're bringing your
team, be sure to check out our Bundle Group rates for even more
value. Secure.yourspottoday@pricingsociety.com/P
PS (18:45):
LV25. Welcome back, everyone.
Thank you for staying with us and welcome back to the Let's
Talk Pricing podcast. We're going to jump back in and
continue our conversation with Ibrahim Elbiari and Angie
Jackson. Angie, I think you had another
question. Please, ma'am.
Yeah. To pick back up where we were,
(19:06):
you talked about the sales team and and them saying they would
like to build their empathy skills.
You've observed that when women amplify their voices, not only
does their personal happiness grow, but the people around them
are lifted as well. What do you think about that
dynamic? Well, currently we're operating
below our full capacity as a society and as company.
(19:30):
So if we engage more of our capability, we can operate at a
higher level and a better level.So when when women get this
space and men also listen and provide that space, there is
more flow of fresh ideas, there is easier collaboration and
(19:52):
effectiveness and how work is done.
So all that leads to more functionality and effectiveness.
So I truly believe that. Bringing the women the space
they deserve would improve the overall social and professional
(20:14):
well-being just out of your engaging more of your power,
which is not today fully engaged.
So just to give you some numbersaround it, if if I look at the
top 500 companies from a market cap perspective, it's 11% of the
CE OS are women, which is a hugecelebration that now it hit the
(20:36):
the double digit, but it's 11%. If I look at the top 25 market
cap, sorry, top 20 market cap companies, there is zero.
That is not a well balanced picture.
Given that the population is 5050, given that in pricing the
leadership position represented by women is 20% and then the top
(20:59):
CE OS or the CE OS of the top 20is 0.
That is not balanced. Balance is not necessarily 5050.
It might not. It might be that some men don't
want to participate, some women don't want participate.
That's their own choice. But the difference is too big.
So I don't believe that if we are a car, I don't believe we're
(21:22):
using all our cylinders at the moment.
Yes, agreed. Something to think about is as
we talk about pricing and building teams and and
collaboration between thinkers that bring different cultural
backgrounds, different generational contexts, just
different gifts to the table. Where can communication and
(21:45):
cross functional collaboration be amplified in order to be a
jumping a springboard for leadership so that we can help
bridge the gap between pricing teams and the rest of the
business at large? Well, there is we we spoke about
empathy earlier and building empathy, reducing that blind
(22:07):
spots, improving also the the other or the collective success.
That is a key element that can help move us forward on not only
on leadership, but also on generating more ideas and
generating creative ways of approaching the market.
So and, and here is where women stand out.
(22:31):
That element of empathy, that element of connection with other
functions. Not that men cannot do it, women
are just more effective at it. So there is an element of cross
learning that that can happen. The other element is how can we
win together. So if if I look at sales and
(22:52):
pricing, it's not that I need towin as pricing only when sales
lose on the country, it's it's it needs to be a win win
element. And I know it's easy to say it's
much harder to do because it generates or it needs to
generate a step of understandingwhat counts for my counterpart,
(23:16):
be it sales, be it supply chain,be it the customer.
And then how can that meet with what I'm looking for?
And the answer could be that we disengage versus bleeding each
other out. And and that is that is one of
the changes that the landscape of leadership is more and more
(23:36):
seeing nowadays, not only in pricing but overall.
I'm glad you brought up blind spots because but now more than
ever, I hear conversations around that.
And if I think about the historical perspective of of my
career, what are some ways that we can identify or seek out a
space to identify our blind spots?
(23:58):
Well, Angie, that that is not aneasy one, but it's one that it's
one that is paired with hidden strengths as well.
So it's hidden strengths and blind spots combined.
And the the more the more we expand our questions and open
ourselves for input, the easier it becomes.
(24:20):
So looking, well, we're looking at mentorships, looking at
coaching, looking at also directfeedback and how to ask for that
feedback. Not that we become feedback
junkies, it's more directed feedback.
So related to this specific skill, how am I doing?
(24:43):
What am I doing well? Where am I falling short and
developing that? That helps.
The second element is being opento receive all the communication
that is coming towards us. We get a lot of, I would call it
communication. Some of it is pure noise, but
also some of it is very, very valuable input.
(25:07):
And some of that input is the direct, some of it is indirect.
So the more we can open ourselves to all right, is this
a valid point beat criticism even What is one thing that I
can take away from that and workwith it That already helps.
So the hidden strengths is important because it becomes
(25:29):
our, our lever or our, you know,stick that we get like almost
our walking stick that we can step into those blind spots or
weaknesses that we want to improve on.
So it's those two imbalance. The more we can, or the more
diversity we can bring in views,in people we ask, in situations
(25:53):
we experience, the easier it is to to flash out some of those
blind spots and also bring out some of those hidden strengths
that we sometimes overlook. And they can be precious.
Excellent. Thank you, Angie.
Thank you, Ibrahim. Ibrahim, I have one question for
you. What makes a man keen on women
(26:17):
finding their confidence and feeling empowered?
I'd love to hear your perspective on how you became so
interested in this topic and whyyou think it's important for men
also to engage in these conversations.
Well, it's always been a, a passion of mine because women
have such a critical role all through, all through history,
(26:42):
but the most influential people in, in, in my life have been
women. And I just, it's, it's
surprising for me. Like for instance, when I look
at some of the numbers we we spoke about, it makes me wonder
how so or how we can change thatand bring more element of
fairness into the equation. So that, that is just a
(27:06):
background part. But it's not about capability.
It's more about the approach like women are capable, they
don't get sufficient space to express themselves at times.
And in other times, there are double standards that get in the
way of that expression and that double standards, regardless
what the, the reason is. So what can we do?
(27:29):
And by we here, I mean as a society, but also I mean as men.
So raising that awareness of menof holding that space, letting
that expression come across, because as we touched earlier,
when women move, the whole society benefits.
But at the end of the day, it's,it's I see women getting their
(27:53):
fair share, complementary and necessary for me as as a human
being and as a professional. And that's why I'm hoping that
more voices, more women voices as well would speak of of the
topic and well as well as men holding that space.
(28:14):
Not that women need someone to hold it for them.
It's a facilitation and collaboration more than anything
else. Yes, of course.
And as you mentioned, since men are about 89% of Fortune 500 CE
OS and 100% of the top 20 or 25 in market cap cap there, why do
(28:36):
you believe men in leadership, particularly if they're in more
technical or analytical spaces as ours is a lot of the time,
why should they play a more active role in advancing women's
leadership? Well, first of all, they would
get a good checkpoint of the risk profile that they're
(28:56):
taking. If nothing else, the risk
appetite for men is much higher,which can be more dangerous.
And we saw it in in 2008, we sawit in other cases of history.
But also adding to to the risk profile, there is more the
relationship based on the higherEQ performance, be it empathy,
(29:22):
be it the interpersonal skills that women bring to the table.
If you want the smartness aroundthat interaction and knowing
that we as pricing, but also as companies need to work more and
enrich that connective being around.
(29:44):
And then finally, but it's that harmonious and fresh ideas that
keep on coming across. So there's a lot to gain from
from women participating and being allowed to express
themselves. Not only participation, it's
active participation and being heard and listened to.
(30:05):
Excellent. Thank you so much for the answer
there and go ahead, Angie. Yeah, I appreciate you making
some generalities and, and comparing and contrasting
leadership styles that you typically see between different
genders and positions of leadership and talking about
some of the strengths in styles and some of the challenges.
When you when you juxtapose those items, are there any
(30:28):
aspects of leadership you've seen women bring to pricing
teams or commercial strategy that deserves more attention or
visibility or anything that might surprise our listeners
about a capability or a strengththat you've seen women bring to
the table? I've seen women taking a bit
more time to understand and digest, and once they they have
(30:51):
that done, they move much fasterinto the storytelling and the
action part. And that was thinking back to
one of my earlier managers in pricing.
She was mistaken to be slow, butthat was not true.
She was slow on the first part understanding, but she got the
(31:13):
story right once she got into the all right, now that the
facts are clear, let's get going.
She was super fast and extremely, extremely accurate
and effective in the storytelling in in the
engagement on the board level. So there was a misconception on
(31:34):
the speeds of of that. So it can it can be mistaken
that a lot is is happening earlyon means that it's being
effective where where it's not the case.
Again, generalizing a bit, but my experience and what I've
observed is that women take thatextra bit of time to understand,
(31:58):
to even criticize what's happening within the pricing
kitchen before moving forward. Once that move forward happens,
it happens with more, with more positive force, with more also
finesse, and with better story to tell because the story is
complete. Yeah, it's reminding me of women
(32:19):
just tend to have the propensityto ready aim fire instead of
fire ready aim, which can which can sometimes be the the
sequence for different folks. So making sure we createspace
for that readying period. And and just because you you
have you want to weigh all the options and and think through
(32:41):
process towards outcomes, doesn't mean that you're a
slower mover or thinker, but perhaps just want to examine the
landscape of possibilities before you jump in.
I like that. Excellent.
Ibrahim El Biari and Angie Jackson, thank you so much.
We are having a wonderful, powerful discussion so far.
(33:02):
We're going to take one more short break and when we come
back, we're going to bring our conversation back to the pricing
world and we're going to explorehow some of the themes that
Ibrahim has mentioned are going to reflect and show up in our
part of the business world. So we'll be right back with more
of the Let's Talk Pricing podcast.
(33:23):
This October 21st through 24th, PPS Profitable in Las Vegas is
all about you, the pricing professional ready to navigate
today's challenges and lead withconfidence.
In just four days, you'll gain the strategies, tools, and
connections to drive margin growth, strengthen your
influence, and future proof yourcareer.
Early bird pricing ends September 19th and our group
(33:45):
rates make it easy to bring yourwhole team so you can cover more
ground and return with a shared plan.
Make the investment in yourself.Visit pricingsociety.com/P PS:
LV25 to register. Thanks, everyone, and welcome
back to Let's Talk Pricing. We're going to pick up where we
(34:08):
left off with one of our favorite topics.
Of course, Ibrahim, We're going to bring it back to pricing.
You have a great new course fromProfessional Pricing Society.
We're happy to partner with you on that.
You can find information about it on our website.
Your course is entitled Pricing and Sales Leadership, Bridging
the Gap. And of course, you talk about
(34:30):
translation skills for pricing professionals, the ability that
we have to bridge technical insight along with storytelling
and business execution and otherrelated items there where we
have to kind of worry about the Venn diagram between the art and
the science of pricing. Do you see any overlap between
(34:51):
these translation skills, as youcall it, and the type of
communication that women leadersoften excel at doing?
The short answer is yes. The more detailed answer is when
looking at the elements that facilitate that gap bridging,
(35:14):
you look at things like trust, you look at things like
understanding, look at things like transparency, all, all
those are elements that research, well including my
doctorate research has shown that it increases the
interaction and builds that collaboration significantly.
(35:37):
So if we link it to what we weretalking about earlier with with
different gender and and diverselayers of communication, you
need the technical part, you need the emotional part.
And the richer you have that representation in your pricing
team, the easier it is to extendit and receive it from other
(36:01):
teams, be it sales or others, including also external teams.
So when you look at trust, you need empathy.
When you look at understanding, you need, you need emotional
intelligence or sorry, emotionalawareness of what the other
(36:22):
person's state of mind is when they're saying something and not
stopping at the word, but ratherlistening to the full meaning,
which women, for instance, excelat or show higher aptitude
versus versus men. At the same time, you need also
that self-confidence and assertiveness when communicating
(36:44):
certain messages and certain positions.
And that's where that diversity within your pricing team and
approach of linking with other functions becomes valuable.
Yes, very true. We have to have a whole Armada
of skills and different languages to talk with different
(37:06):
people. Of course, we in pricing know
that you cannot talk with a 25 year veteran salesperson the
same way that you would talk to a new finance MBA.
Those are maybe both in the samelanguage, but those are very,
very different conversations that might as well be in
completely different languages as well.
So that's very important. So thanks for your insights
(37:27):
there. We're going to wrap up with one
more question for you here, Ibrahim, and that is a lot of
our members are of course, pricing people who are advancing
their careers and will eventually become pricing
leaders and leaders within the organizations.
So for those of us who are with us today who are in pricing
(37:49):
roles but unsure about how they take those next steps, whether
they are men or women, what would you encourage future
pricing leaders to focus on 1st?Well to answer that question,
you can think of it as a processwith the first step being being
(38:09):
very clear on what skills and knowledge you have today.
So knowing what grounds are you standing upon, The second
element is So what does the market need or where do you want
to go? Therefore, what skills are
needed and matching A&B, it tells you what gap you need to
(38:31):
work on. The tricky part is the more time
goes on, the more skills are required of the magician that is
also known as a pricing leader because they need to be
technically savvy, they need to be very well connected, they
need to be excellent communicators, they need to be
(38:53):
amazing storytellers and the list goes on it just which which
makes it a fascinating area. Regardless what the gap that you
are working towards is, there are three elements that that you
can employ and that you can engage with.
First of all, formal education that could come in in the form
(39:17):
of courses like offered by PPS could be by a university.
Further education like a master's or a PhD could be so
many things. Then there's the other second
element, which is the network. And network is not only drawing
from people you know, it's also adding to the people you know.
(39:40):
So I can help you on this. Can you help me on that?
It's that give and take and the more you invest in that network
by giving, the more you will take from it when you need it.
But it starts by, you know, likewatering the plant so that the
plant can grow becomes a tree and then you it would bear
(40:00):
fruit. The third element is mentoring
and coaching. So that is using like mentoring
would be using the experience and the expertise of someone who
did it. Someone from a different company
even who's a pricing leader you aspire to be.
And one thing within the pricingdomain that I've observed is
(40:23):
that pricing folks are so generous with their time and
they're happy to give. So all they need to do is just
ask. So that is mentoring.
Coaching is also another great way to help work on on that next
skill. But take it one step at a time.
You know, like applying that self compassion of not trying to
(40:47):
take it all at one go, but saying for instance, for the
next 6 months I'm going to improve my knowledge and
capability on conjoint analysis.After that I'm going to take
care of how I ask questions. After that, I'll do six months
of AI prompting and so on. But take it one step at a time
(41:12):
so that you you move from strength to strength versus
overwhelm yourself. Wonderful, and thank you for the
game plan there. Appreciate your insights.
And Ibrahim and Angie, this has been a wonderful conversation.
So I thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing your
perspectives and your experiences with us also here on
(41:33):
the Let's Talk Pricing podcast. And Ibrahim, before we sign off,
is there anything else you'd like to leave our listeners
with? Do you have a final take away
for professionals, pricing professionals and other
professionals who are working onfinding their voice or
supporting others as they do find their own voices?
(41:55):
Most of prices, if not all, havesomething to say and share.
Please share it because then you're benefiting everyone, not
only yourself, but it's, it's for everyone and be the change
you want to see. So listen, absorb, share.
It just makes life a bit more fun.
(42:17):
Terrific, and thank you so much.And Ibrahim, if listeners want
to learn more about you or more about your work and your very
interesting PhD work and your other work with talking about
pricing and sales coming up, what's the best place that they
can find more information about you and about your offerings?
They could reach out to me on EBIARY at coach-ee.com or go to
(42:47):
the website on coach-ee.com. Excellent.
We will make sure to do that. Or LinkedIn or reach out to
Angie and yourself and they you know where to find me.
OK, absolutely. And we will make sure to do
that. So for Ibrahim Lbra, for Angie
Jackson, thank you so much for our discussion today.
(43:07):
And thank you for your insights and giving us a lot to think
about as well. Make sure to subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes of our podcast.
And as always, to our members across the globe, thank you so
much for being a part of the Professional Pricing Society
community. We will talk again soon and we
look forward to seeing you againsoon.
(43:28):
Ibrahim and Angie, thank you so much.
Thanks for having me. Thanks, Kevin.
Thanks Angie people. To be here.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!