628: Don't Call it a Christro

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
My name is Wes.
And my name is Brent.
Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, we have some big news stories to dig into.
Then I'm going to tell you how my hyper-tuned play toy has turned into something
that's maybe the real deal.

(00:31):
And then we'll round out the show with some great boosts, a whole rack of picks,
too many picks, and a lot more. So before we go any further,
let me say a time-appropriate greeting to our mumble room. Hello, VirtualLug.
Hello, Chris. How are you? And hello, Brent. Hello. Hello, Dave.
Nice to see you. Everybody camping out there in the quiet listening.

(00:52):
And shout out to our live matrix as we go along, too.
And, of course, Define.net slash unplugged. Go meet Managed Nebula from Define Networking.
It is a decentralized VPN built on the open-source Nebula platform that we love.
And I'll get more into that in just a moment. But Nebula is really something special.
It's super fast. It's simple. And it has industry-leading security.

(01:15):
Nebula's decentralized design means that your network is resilient in a way
that the other providers just cannot offer or manage.
And you can go from just a home lab all the way up to a global enterprise.
It was originally developed back in 2017 to securely connect Slack's global
infrastructure, which is all over the place.
And they've got, like, the world's trade secrets in their system.

(01:37):
So they had to have it secure.
Nebula was engineered to scale, perform, and be secure from day one.
And this, okay, what I love is that it's truly top to bottom an open source platform.
Right? So if you're building your whole network infrastructure on this,
you could do all of it yourself, open source.
But it also means that you can watch development and see where things are going.

(01:58):
And there's an issue that has been in the works since October of 2022.
And it's a nice little win for the Nebula community because they've begun testing this upstream now.
And it allows Nebula to support multiple UDP source ports, i.e. multiport support.
And this is no small feat. Like this has been challenging for WireGuard in general.
And this week the work was finished upstream. Now it's not shipping.

(02:21):
They're still looking at it.
But what it means is this new multiport support means that you can tunnel a
whole range of UDP source ports instead of just one.
And that spreads the traffic across multiple flows.
So if you've got like a cloud provider that's limiting you, or maybe you're
on a connection like Starlink that's throttling you, you can kind of spread that out now.

(02:41):
They're running through the test. It's not shipping, but oh man,
does it look good. And the payoff is better reliability on these connections too.
And in the thread of the PR, there's some massive gains noted.
They write, I suspect that Verizon was throttling individual UDP streams.
So this proved that to be true. I went from 50 megabits to one gigabit by using

(03:03):
a 4X multiport configuration.
Whoa.
Yeah. So it's one of those things where as somebody who's planning their infrastructure,
it's really nice to see this stuff coming.
You can watch this from 2022 all the way to today where they're working it out.
They're testing it. They're documenting the results.
They're discussing if they should ship it. It's all right there for the world to see.

(03:27):
And you can trust it when you build on top of that because it's open source
and that's all just out there in the open.
And they make it completely hassle-free with their managed product.
Nothing else has the resilience, speed, or scalability.
Get started with up to 100 hosts, absolutely free, no credit card required.
Go to defined.net slash unplugged.
That's defined.net slash unplugged.

(03:49):
Okay, so we are planning our Texas road trip. We're still looking for anybody
who would like to help us go there and do our coverage.
So reach out to me, Chris at JupyterBroadcasting.com if you'd like to work together.
And we have been considering a just after the fest meetup.
And I want to know if there's interest because it's specifically for people that are road tripping.

(04:10):
We haven't really figured this out, but we figure towards the end of Texas Linux
Fest or the day that we're leaving, as we're going out of town or something
like that, We set up for a breakfast and we have one last goodbye.
We usually do these things like before the events or during the event,
but I thought, wouldn't it be kind of fun?
So if you want to join us, reach out, boost in or send us an email and say you'd
be interested in doing like a after the festival meetup kind of thing.

(04:34):
And if we get a few bites, we'll put something together like Brent over there.
He's putting something together right now.
Sure am i've been thinking the last couple weeks that
i might consider crashing the september 20th
meetup of the jb crew in toronto but i
want to know would people show up if i end up in that neck of the woods maybe
i can convince i don't know other jb friends to show up too so uh let us know

(04:59):
if you'd be interested in a brent crashing september 20th in toronto and uh if so,
please go to our jb colony events website there's a little posting there of
the location and uh if if you don't mind register your attendance and let us
know if that would be interesting to you.
I guess we got to get some tickets huh chris.

(05:21):
Yeah we better i mean i don't think actually we were technically invited yet west so true.
Let us know if you'd like us to invite chris and maybe.
Don't uh but yeah colony events.com and we will have a link in those show notes,
All right, so let's do a news update. It's been a minute, and there is a story

(05:43):
that we sort of have a midway update on, and it's BcacheFS's inclusion in the Linux kernel.
And while things are still very much in development and the situation is fluid,
as things stand right now, it is possible that Linux may lose out on the next
big file system, not because of code issues, but over a clash of personalities.

(06:05):
And Linux 6.17 is out, but without the BcacheFS updates.
Yeah, just to be clear, it's not that 17's out totally, but we're in the RC phase now.
So that merge window has closed and no poll for BcacheFS.
And it's all kind of unfortunate timing because BcacheFS core developer Kent

(06:26):
Overstreet passed guest on this program.
Well, he mentioned that he'd planned for BcacheFS to actually shed that experimental
label in 6.18, the next kernel.
But, unfortunately, disagreements over his criticisms on the LKML about the
ButterFS file system, well, that ended up turning into a rather heated exchange

(06:49):
on the mailing list this past week.
Meta's Yosef Bacik has done a ton of great work on ButterFS,
called Kent's behavior unacceptable, and the ext4 maintainer Ted So went further,
saying, many developers see him as, quote, toxic, and want his code removed.
And Ted was clear, not for technical reasons. It seems like actually most of

(07:11):
the folks in this thread respect Kent's technical chops and BcacheFS,
you know, just as a code base.
But for Kent's style of communication and his conduct, and in particular here,
criticizing other file systems in the kernel.
Now, Kent has promised to stop criticizing ButterFS, but the fallout makes it

(07:31):
even more likely that BcacheFS won't be seeing any advances or maybe even not
continued acceptance in the kernel.
You know, it kind of seems like this dispute is highlighting a long-running
issue we've seen for years in the development of Linux, which is sometimes,
you know, it's not just about the technical decisions.

(07:51):
That can actually be overshadowed by personality clashes, politics,
and just people having to try to work together in the open across the world,
maybe without really even knowing each other.
And that can actually leave users in a lurch. You know, you might not get the
tool you want, not to technical reasons, but because of people.

(08:11):
Now, we thought Liam over at the register put it pretty well.
It looks likely that Overstreet has upset too many important,
influential people and hurt too many feelings.
And as a result, Linux is not going to get a new next-gen copy-on-write file system.
It's a significant technological loss, and it's all down to people not getting

(08:33):
along, rather than the shared desire to create a better OS.
I think that is well put. I'm on the record of thinking this is an extremely
important file system for Linux.
And my takeaway is, and I say this, I don't like saying this at all because
I have so much respect for the individuals involved. They're really titans.
We stand on their shoulders and, you know, they're smarter than me.

(08:55):
They've accomplished more than me.
They're great individuals. And yet,
as happens to anyone who is in a position of power and maybe some comfort for
a while, they lose touch with the people on the ground and they become more
and more out of touch over time.
And I think we're seeing the signs of that right here. And I get no joy in saying

(09:17):
this, but they don't have the hunger to make Linux competitive anymore.
And they don't understand the situation out here on the ground or facing because
they don't deal with these things anymore.
I would bet you if you polled them, most of them are probably using Extended 4.
So the people that are probably perfectly comfortable with the way things are
right now are put in a position to make a decision over personality conflict.

(09:41):
And it makes the operating system less competitive. There will be ways to run
BcacheFS, and no doubt we will cover those ways and we will use those ways.
But when you don't include it in the kernel, you are going to always exclude
a certain niche of users, maybe embedded systems or something like that.
And it doesn't provide the level of guarantee that a file system built into

(10:04):
the kernel does when you do upgrades and, you know, update your bootloaders
and your kernels and your whatnots.
So it's a downgrade in functionality for what is a very competitive and impressive file system.
And this was going to be one of the answers to not having ZFS in the kernel.
This is another issue that the kernel developers have been ignorant,

(10:25):
arrogant, and out of touch on.
And so Bcash FS was a solution to this that took the pressure off of the ZFS issue.
But they're too blind by their own egos to appreciate the stakes here.
We literally are making decisions based on feels now. And my last point on this.
The tone is set from the top. You set the tone from the top.

(10:49):
And Kent is being persecuted for things that are no worse than have been said
by Ted or Linus themselves.
Just two weeks ago Linus told an individual that their code made the world a
worse place you set the tone from the top so how do you persecute Kent who hasn't
even said anything that hostile,
when the leadership acts like that all the time and if we zoom out over the

(11:13):
30 years of which Kent is familiar with,
the dialogue was even more let's say robust,
so we have 30 years of the tone being set from the top.
And then all of a sudden, we just shut the door on that. And as a result,
everyone listening to this podcast loses out.

(11:36):
Everyone running Linux. And there's not even a good technical reason.
This is where we're at now.
It's pretty embarrassing. That's my take, at least. Hopefully this gets worked out.
It's still, you know, it's an in-fluid situation.
It's a dynamic situation.

(11:56):
So there was some talk in it. I guess to hear Kent talk, it almost happened
that for 6.17, he was able to find an intermediary, you know,
to sort of be the person interacting with the mailing list that wasn't Kent.
But of course, that's a tough job between being acceptable to Kent and knowing
and being able to work well with the upstream Linux community.
So that might be something we see in a future somewhere. And I saw over on the

(12:19):
BcacheFS subreddit, a ZFS dev coming over and chatting with folks there and
offering a lot of really constructive,
concrete advice about, you know, if DKMS or similar is going to be the main
way to run this file system for a while. There are advantages to that.
There are some tips were shared, which is great. It's not like this is pure
antagonism between all of these file system developers. I don't want that to

(12:41):
be the picture people get here.
And Kent has committed, it sounds like, to being, you know, pretty aggressive.
Of so there won't be a ton of lag issues so you know 6.17.0 or whatever you
know one of the first kernels that you might actually run should have good support.
Yeah so we can now have a long distance relationship with bcachefs i will.

(13:01):
Say too i just want to be clear like i don't think we're trying to say kent
hasn't done you know hasn't had issues here i'm not trying to defend all of
the statements by kent or say that there couldn't be a lot of improvements on that side too.
I agree but.
The end result is is definitely disappointing.
Yeah there's some frustration too that Kent couldn't have adapted his approach
and communication style much earlier in all of this there has been several off-ramps

(13:23):
along the way that he could have taken here and that I think is on Kent and
that's just my opinion so it's not all the kernel developers but there is just this,
I don't I'm gonna I'll punt it to the audience to tell me if you think I'm off on this but
I just think there is this extreme irony
in individuals who have been called toxic and are
now calling someone else toxic and it's just they're doing to someone what has

(13:47):
been attempted to be done to them and it's i don't like it i don't know boost
in you know my thoughts on bcashfs have been clear how do you feel about this
entire situation let us know because uh it's got me fired up.
I am hopeful that there will be either some sort of, like Wes said,
intermediary or a pretty straightforward approach.
Kent is all over the kernel development cycle, so I have no doubt,

(14:10):
like, the day that the kernel ships stable, he'd probably have an update. It's a solution.
It's one I shouldn't have to use, but it's a solution. Let's talk about something
kind of fun. This is interesting.
Ubuntu has committed to developing a new dangerous desktop image.
Yeah, they're calling it the Dangerous Edition. It's daily builds,

(14:33):
and all the applications are snaps pulled from the edge channel for the snap.
So it's the absolute newest, raw, most experimental snap versions.
And the idea here is to make it easier for devs to seed snaps during what they
call their spike development, kind of like their sprints, which can last for like six weeks.

(14:54):
And then they can focus deeply on one thing and this could be a time to get that stuff involved
recently that was done with tpm full disk encryption work and the next spike
is the desktop prompting client i suppose i think this is really interesting
obviously it's not meant for end users to run on the daily but,
I like that they're calling it the dangerous version, the Ubuntu Dangerous Desktop.

(15:17):
I think that's a great name.
And it really conveys like, hey, don't run this as your daily driver.
But if you need access or if you're working on something developing, this is where to go.
I think it's neat, too, because previously, right, this was all kind of work
that I'm sure many developers, people hacking on this stuff,
were doing already in various different ways.
So the more you do it faster and make it available upstream so that you have

(15:40):
a common shared base to start development from that's refreshed often,
I mean, that's just less work for more people, which is great.
We did get some more details here. Canonical engineer Tim Anderson of the Ubuntu
release management team had a nice summary of these new dangerous desktop images,
saying, quote, we're currently working on building what we're calling dangerous images.

(16:01):
They'll be the same as daily desktop images for the Devel series,
but all of the snaps will be on their respective edge channels.
This work is ongoing, and there's going to be some more news soon.
These images are intended to help developers who work on our seeded snaps.
During the TPM full disk encryption spike earlier this year,

(16:21):
all the snaps for daily builds were switched to edge to help those developers.
And these dangerous images will remove the need to do this in future spikes,
one of which starts on Monday.
For those who are unaware, within Canonical, we've started doing spikes this cycle.
Spikes are segments of the whole cycle, six weeks long, where members of varying

(16:42):
teams join together to focus on one topic, partially or entirely,
leaving behind their regular daily duties.
There was a spike just after the Frankfurt sprint, working on TPM-based full
disk encryption, and the next spike, which starts this week,
focuses on the desktop prompting client.
You know, imagine that for a moment. You know, you're going about your daily

(17:04):
job and then there's this six week period where you sort of leave behind the
daily grind and just focus on one thing.
It kind of sounds incredible, actually. I think I would love that.
Yeah, you know, you get some diversity in your workload. Plus,
I mean, it seems to make a lot of sense where normally these sort of cross-cutting
concerns, you know, you have to have new emails or, you know,

(17:27):
DM messages or team channels to try to pull people out of their daily work.
So this is some blessed time where everyone across the stack can focus on one
thing, which I mean, that seems pretty useful. Right.
You would presume everybody's on board with the idea so you could actually pull
it off, which is, that's probably the secret trick.
But we have a little bit more Ubuntu news, Brantley.
Indeed, from Pharaonics this time, we get a few extra details.

(17:49):
Knuckle is sticking to the promise of always shipping the latest upstream kernel.
That means Ubuntu 25.10 will launch with Linux 6.17, even if it is still an unstable RC release.
Now, this timing is tight. Ubuntu's kernel freeze is September 25th,

(18:09):
while Linux 6.17's stable release is expected September 28th.
So just a few days later, the kernel team says it'll likely ship the near final RC,
which should still be, they say, very close to stable and highlights in 6.17
include Intel's XC3 graphics by default on Panther Lake and other major hardware improvements.

(18:33):
So once 6.17 goes stable, Ubuntu will push it out as quickly as a stable update.
And we got a bit more from Brett Grombois on behalf of the Canonical Kernel team,
saying, With the recent release of Linux 6.16, we now have a much clearer idea
of when 6.17 is likely to be released, as of this writing being tentatively September 28th, 2025.

(19:01):
The current 25.10 release schedule has kernel freeze set at September 25th,
which means that there is a strong possibility that linux 617 will still be
in a final rc state at the time the kernel needs to be frozen for the 2510 final release they're.
Sticking to it.
Yeah it's impressive especially because you know i i feel like five years ago

(19:22):
you wouldn't imagine this would really even be possible.
This does feel quite bold from Ubuntu, which I like. I like this new flavor.
I think they're pushing the envelope a little bit compared to what's been done
in the last several years. And I'm looking forward to what's coming out of this.
I also think it speaks well for the kernel development process, right?

(19:44):
This is canonical saying we trust the kernel team enough to ship these RCs,
knowing that we can ship a stable and there's not going to be big regressions.
Yeah, that's true. Good point. And they're also, though, committing to shipping
that stable release basically as fast as they can, which does mean you're going
to get a new system installed, and then a few days later, you'll get an update.
So you might just wait a week or two and then upgrade. But I like that they're

(20:08):
doing this, and it is combined with a series of data points we're seeing come
out of Canonical, where there definitely seems to be a bit more focus behind the desktop now.
And pushing, like, we see this dangerous release, and now we see them committing to, okay,
you know, we're not going to hit the stable, so we're going to ship the RC,
but that means, you know, if you're using Intel Z83 graphics or whatever on

(20:31):
Panther Lake, you're going to be good to go here.
And when these are midterm releases between LTSs, I think that's a really smart strategy.
So props to see them follow through with it.
You know what? Promise made, promise kept. Now, one of my favorite tools that
I've been using for almost a decade, I think, just finally hit 2.0.

(20:51):
And that project is SyncThing. Yes, that's right, the thing secretly running
pretty much all of Chris's infrastructure.
It's finally hit version 2.0, the first release in a new series.
And, well, like any first release in a new series, users should probably expect
a few rough edges, because there are big changes under the hood.

(21:12):
For one, the database backend now uses SQLite instead of LevelDB,
and that means a one-time migration at first launch of this new release and
that might take a while if you've got a big database.
Uh-oh.
Logging has also been overhauled, structured entries per package log levels,
and a new warning level between info and error.

(21:32):
So that's going to be nice. But if you have filters or alerts based on the existing
logging format, those are going to need to be updated.
You know, what's funny is it seems like all these tools too are,
they're reinvesting in the command line interface again just after the two-week challenge?
Yeah, what's the deal with that? The command line interface has been modernized in SyncThing 2.0.

(21:53):
Long options now require double dashes. Some are renamed. Others got moved to subcommands.
Here's a nice change, too. Deleted files are no longer stored forever.
By default, they're forgotten after six months, though you can change that in a setting.
There's also no more default folder on First Startup, and SyncThing now uses

(22:14):
three parallel connections by default between devices. I mean,
that sounds like a good thing.
That's the way to do it. That is the way to do it. I have heard some reports.
I have not verified because I don't do this, but I've heard some reports that
SyncThing 2.0 might not be compatible with SyncThing on Android right now.
So verify that before you upgrade. I've heard some people report that.

(22:37):
I have not verified that.
Something else that might not
be so great, some older platforms are losing official pre-built binaries.
I don't know if this is like totally dropping support, they're just no longer
going to build these, but that includes Dragonfly BSD, Illumos,
Solaris, NetBSD, OpenBSD on 32-bit in ARM and Windows on ARM.

(22:57):
So maybe if you're on one of those, do your homework before trying to switch to 2.0.
There's also some new features here, including ED25519 keys for secure connections,
bandwidth limits for your LAN, and quick UDP port mapping support.
That's nice.
And of course, like any release, you've got dozens of bug fixes,

(23:19):
you've got other performance improvements, you've got all of that database work,
improvements to file syncing, improvements to the GUI and the TUI as we talked
about so maybe don't commit your whole infra to switching to it right away but
do go start playing with it and check it out.
Yeah I think I need to look at I think I need to look at it because I do run
it on a lot of systems one of the things I've done if I have also I've deployed

(23:42):
it I don't sync everything to it but I've deployed one on a VPS that I kind
of use as a go-between and then do multiple connections off of that because
the VPS as a super fast connection.
I really, really appreciate the Sync Thing project, and there really isn't a
lot of opportunity to talk about it because they don't have a lot of major releases,
which is sort of what generates the news cycle.
So it's nice to take a moment here and just appreciate something that's worked for me for over a decade.

(24:07):
I found it in the wake of BitTorrent Sync, and it's just been fantastic ever since.
It really has. And I think as, you know, folks who listen to the member stream
can attest, the fact that we haven't really heard you complaining about it in
the past five years says a lot about the project.
That's a good point. Well, boys, my week was really made when the Open Home

(24:30):
Foundation and Home Assistant made some big, big news.
So a little backstory here. I love Z-Wave. It's a wireless communications protocol,
and one of the reasons I really like it is it operates at the 800 to 900 megahertz range.
Here in the U.S. and Canada, it's 908.42 megahertz specifically.
And a lot of the alternatives, which are better in some ways,

(24:52):
like licensing, are worse in other ways that really matter.
Like they use the 2.4 gigahertz frequency, as we all know, a very busy frequency.
Even just turning on your microwave kind of blasts it out. It also doesn't travel
through walls as well as 900 megahertz does and doesn't quite reach the same distance.
But it really hasn't gotten much attention lately. They kind of made the QT

(25:14):
mistake where they had sort of a aggressive license and certification process at first.
And then they've rectified that over the years. But it left a window of opportunity
for competitors like Matter and Zigbee and others to emerge.
And I thought, OK, we're not hearing about it much lately.
These other things are out. They're open source. I really should start to adopt
them. And I started getting more and more gear there on these other protocols.

(25:37):
Started slowly accepting that my beloved Z-Wave was fading away.
But it turns out the truth is actually quite the opposite.
There was a big old Z-Wave Alliance member meeting in Austin,
Texas. And the news out of there is good, boys.
Home Assistant has a blog that shares a lot about the event.
But I pulled some highlights that I thought were interesting.

(25:58):
10% of all Home Assistant users use Z-Wave. which is more than 1.7 million active devices.
And that's just a small percentage that actually submit their stats.
Of course.
And I think the key takeaway from the Z-Wave event is it isn't going anywhere.
In fact, it's seemingly thriving.
But the Home Assistant team in Polis, they really encourage them to open up further,

(26:21):
just really participate more in the community and they
put their money where their mouth is and they have released an
incredible piece of hardware for z-wave users and
if you're looking at home automation tap the brakes and
look at the home assistant connect zwa2 it is
their z-wave antenna and it is brilliant
first of all it's big but they have engineered the

(26:43):
absolute snot out of this thing the results are
incredible so it's 69 us 59 euros
it's designed to really give you the absolute optimal range
possible they've had some incredible incredible experiments now of course there's
two to tango so your device you're communicating to us to have a decent antenna
and this also supports the z-wave long range protocol which is extremely fast

(27:09):
and it's built on the new Z-Wave 800 chip.
Which is, it's like a whole new SoC, essentially. It's not quite the same thing, but it's way faster.
And the nice thing is, is because it's made by Home Assistant, it's a seamless setup.
You plug it in, Home Assistant detects it, it knows your region automatically,
it guides you through a setup, it'll guide you through migrating to the new one.

(27:30):
It's open, it's hackable, it's absolutely all offline, privacy first.
Open firmware files, you'll get over-the-air updates to it, no cloud reliance at all.
You buy it once, and then you own it, and it looks great.
The base looks a lot like their voice preview box, and then it goes up into
this antenna where they've built this really powerful antenna inside,

(27:51):
and then on the top it has a little LED light that tells you the status,
which you can also turn off.
It really, I think, is going to up the reliability of a Z-Wave network,
and this is going to slow my role on all the other protocols so much.
I was starting to really start going to Zigbee and Z-Wave, and I could not make
Zigbee as reliable as Z-Wave.
It's just not the same level. And then I started putting more devices on Wi-Fi,

(28:13):
which isn't great either.
So to be able to rely on Z-Wave again, to see their investment in this,
to see this hardware, I pulled the trigger immediately.
It may arrive today, actually, during the show. And I was recently talking on
the podcast here about wanting to redo my Home Assistant setup.
And I was concerned about the Z-Wave migration. Well, problem solved.
I'm going to plug this into my Home Assistant.

(28:34):
I'm going to migrate to this thing. And then I'll unplug it and plug into the new Home Assistant.
And it's a gorgeous piece of engineering. And they have some YouTube videos,
which I'll link in the show notes. The range demonstrations are absolutely bonkers.
So if you have a large garden or even a farm, you could actually put sensors
and devices way out there and they'll still communicate with this thing,

(28:54):
especially in long range mode.
They were seen in testing up to 1.5 kilometers.
Really incredible. And to see the whole combination, they support the open source
community, the open development.
They're paying for one of the developers to continue to contribute to that.
And now they've released this piece of hardware that is open and hackable, all offline.

(29:16):
Love to see this kind of stuff. This is it.
And the Home Assistant platform is going from fantastic win to fantastic win,
both in software features and hardware devices.
They're selective about the hardware they release.
They're super laser targeted. And every time it makes a ton of sense.
And every time it's just validating to be in this ecosystem when I see this kind of stuff.

(29:38):
And they've gotten to the point now where it's like they release a piece of hardware.
I know it's going to be great. I know it's going to work with Home Assistant
super easy. And it's not like they're using their own private,
you know, a la AirPod style way to connect it.
Like the technology they use to make this work tremendously seamlessly with
Home Assistant is available to any vendor in any hardware device.
And it's all open standards.

(30:00):
I don't know if you can tell, but I'm kind of excited.
Whatever happened to Matter, can I ask? Because I thought for a minute you were
checking that out too. And I haven't heard much after kind of some initial excitement.
You know, it's still, it's, you know, it's still, you know, it's out there. It's been slow to adopt.
And most of the implementations, although not required, most implementations just use 2.4 gigahertz.

(30:22):
So it's kind of like just a new version of Zigbee. And it has a lot of the core
problems that 2.4 gigahertz has.
And so at the end of the day, like there's other ways to do it.
There's a thread pro. There's other ways they can implement it with Matter.
The spec allows for that. But you can even use Bluetooth.
But it's up to manufacturers to actually choose to go that route.
And with Z-Wave, you kind of get that by default. Okay.

(30:44):
Yeah. And, you know, this whole stack, right? It's all open source.
It's a lot of it's Python based. And then it's running on top of Linux.
And then the hardware you connect is open.
And it's backed by the Open Home Foundation, who has the super long-term view of this.
So it's the exact 180 from buying some cloud-connected smart device off of Amazon
or from Costco that lasts for three years, and then you've got to throw it away,

(31:06):
and you have to sign up with their app and their cloud service.
It's the 180 of all of that, and it's exactly the kind of thing you want to put in your home.
You want to put something in your home that's going to last a decade, right?
If you put that in the wall or you put that somewhere where it automates that
thing, you want it to last as long as the house lasts.
That's my goal. Everything I'm building that I put into Joops,
I don't ever want to tear out again. I want it to last forever.

(31:28):
So everything has over-the-air updates now.
Nothing requires a cloud account. Nothing requires an internet connection to function.
All of it works offline. All of it works without me having to open up any other
apps other than Home Assistant. No other apps on my phone.
And it's not that hard to get there anymore with these hardware devices they're
releasing. It's powerful stuff, boys. It's a good time to get into Home Assistant.

(31:52):
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(32:14):
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(33:22):
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Now, Chris, last week you featured your brand new desktop, all riced up and looking delicious.

(34:31):
And I feel like you weren't quite done with that.
Based on our private chats this week, it sounds like most of your free time
went towards continuing that project.
What is going on over there?
Yeah, remember how I said I was not going to mess with it anymore and I was
done and I was just, you know, I got it out of my system and I was just going to move on.

(34:52):
That wasn't true. No, no, no, that was not true at all. In fact, it's getting serious.
I'm ready to take this thing home to mom and dad for dinner.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah. What is that? Okay, so when we were at Red Hat Summit,
you kind of bailed ship. You went whole hog on a U-Blue lifestyle.

(35:12):
What does that mean?
I think it means the grand experiment, which was a lot of fun.
The days on Bluefin are over.
I liked it but i think when you hear where i ended up everyone will understand
i kind of you know i i want to take a moment and i want to blame two people

(35:34):
specifically if i could for this i'm.
Not taking the blame on this one.
Because i was happy i was living in this blissful world where i didn't need
to tweak my system much i didn't need to worry about performance that much yeah.
That's because soltros os did all the work for you.
Right soltros os comes along and does the work and I'm like oh man you can move
the needle on some of this stuff you know you can make a few adjustments here

(35:56):
and make a noticeable improvement in like the application launch time like oh
of course that makes me start wanting to tweak it a little bit more and then
DHH comes along with his Alma Archie,
and finally shows me a Hyperland that I can appreciate,
And I just, I think I just slipped into this, I'm going to build a Hyperland
desktop that works for me.
And it also coincided with after a summer of travel, I finally set up my home

(36:19):
desktop PC again, which still runs an XOS because it's just been packed away.
And if you caught last week's episode, you know I ended up vibe-ricing my way
into a pretty, pretty sweet Hyperland desktop.
And since last week, I went from like a silly, couldn't I even do this MVP self-challenge
to like, now it's my dream distribution.

(36:40):
And I think it's actually worth wider testing and other people should try it.
I've been using it and refining it for over a week. And I actually think there's
even a market fit for a distribution like this.
And I know I'm going crazy here, but I have been seeing post after post recently
on the Mastos and the Xs about how people wish somebody would come along and
do an opinionated Oma Archie style Hyperland setup on NixOS.

(37:03):
And I'm seeing a couple of people take a stab at it, But I think I might have the best one.
Humbly I say, because it's not only the best-in-class open-source desktop applications
that are through just years and years of us looking at all the different apps
and using all the different things and reviewing all the different desktop environments,
all the thousands of hours that I've done all that, that have gone into just

(37:24):
the decisions on the apps that I'm picking with this Hypervibe,
but I have done just bonkers out-of-the-box
performance that I've been slowly building on for the
last year um like for example i'm using
the zen kernel which just as a quick aside is
a great desktop kernel that i don't understand why more
desktop distributions don't ship it's optimized with low latency patches to

(37:48):
reduce input output processing delays which improve the overall feel of your
desktop and gaming experience it makes it feel like your desktop more responsive
it's using the bfq the budget fair queuing scheduler which gives you smoother
multitasking in a desktop environment Also.
Disk I.O. is better optimized for a desktop environment.
And it's tweaked to have a more responsive CPU process scheduler that benefits

(38:10):
multitasking workloads.
It has preemption and real-time support if you need that.
And there's a lot of little kernel parameters that have been tuned in there
that just favor multimedia playback and desktop performance out of the box that
you just get by using the Zen kernel.
It also supports ZRAM, which I'll get to in a moment.
I'm so glad you're finally here because we did, I don't remember exactly when,

(38:30):
sometime in the last year, we did some dabbling. We were trying the licorice
kernel and a few other, you know, tweaks, especially looking at getting low
latency audio because, you know, we do a lot of audio work here.
So since then, I've been just using the Zen kernel. I've seen no reason to switch off.
And like you're talking about with the IO stuff, I mean, I've used desktop Linux

(38:51):
long enough to know like you're doing some big transfers or other stuff with
a lot of file operations and your desktop can get kind of laggy.
And OK, it's not a huge deal, but that is just almost totally gone with Zen.
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's just the kernel, right?
And then in there, I've also utilized BPF to do auto-tuning, which is really nice.

(39:11):
And then there's just some housekeeping items that automatically happen.
The Nick store auto-optimizes and garbage collects every week.
I have out of memory for certain things ready to go.
Butter FS with FS trim and auto-scrub is set up even on root.
And the governor is set to performance mode at a default, but you can change
it. It's a Wayland-based system, and it comes completely loaded with Steam.

(39:32):
All wired up with game scope, which if you know what that is,
you realize why that's a big deal.
What? Oh, I missed this in our notes. Oh, okay.
Oh, yeah. Yep. Oh, yeah. I got the Lutris in there.
I got all the wine stuff you need to play 64-bit and 32-bit wine games,
and it has Vulkan support for all that stuff.
Has UDEV rules for the controllers you might want to use with it.

(39:53):
Steam with hardware support out of the box, ready to go, all optimized.
Now, right now, the way it's built, it's,
It's tilted towards AMD, but it really wouldn't be much work to make it work with NVIDIA or Intel.
Got LibVert, Invert Manager out of the box. Docker's there with weekly auto
prune ready to go. And then it's a Hyperland desktop that I have customized the hell out of.

(40:13):
And so you have to build the entire thing. Everything from the toolbar to the
file manager to the launcher, everything.
So in here, Thunder's available, but I went with Dolphin.
And to make Dolphin really, truly functional, you don't need just Dolphin.
You need the KIO extras. You need the Fuse support.
You need the arc package or extractor and you need u-disc so that way you can

(40:34):
mount network shares all of that works so when you get dolphin it's a fully
functional dolphin clipboard support you know i had to add the right clipboard
manager right and a screenshot manager so you have all of that.
You're doing a lot of work just to get back to what plasma gets you out of the gate but.
It gives you a really.
Nice you know look at like what pieces do you want you can swap those out in
a lot easier way and you know since you got the vibe help you kind of can get

(40:56):
a nice set out of the gate and then tweak it from there right.
And it's a smaller subset right it's just you know a handful of the plasma packages
which is a lot smaller of a moving target this entire thing even after all this
work is so much leaner and meaner than a full genome cinnamon or plasma desktop
and so because of that there's a lot less that breaks and so,

(41:19):
less to break and the fact that we have rollbacks i have
gone all the way to the edge with this system it is
on nix os unstable and it is pulling straight
from hyperland's github yeah they have a flake so
they make that nice and easy and so this thing is
the absolute freshest packages and desktop
environment possible something goes wrong you roll back but so far two weeks

(41:43):
nothing's gone wrong and the terminal environment is an actual chef's kiss now
i know wes thinks it's a little weird but i have combined fish shell with a
tuin which i picked up from bluefin and it is.
A command line history tool that syncs across
your systems so you can have the same command history

(42:04):
if you want with support for multiple systems and all of that and
it displays in a really nice list anyways that is
combined with fish shell to have just a fantastic tool
set on the command line i've designed it so your secrets
like your github token they exist outside the github repo they exist outside
the config and i've put a lot of polish into waybar to put media controls in

(42:27):
their bluetooth integration brightness control network mount information gpu cpu load,
All that kind of stuff is laid out in there.
A playback, you can play and pause media controls and get a list of what's playing.
You get open window notifications. And there's a system tray.
I even have a system tray. So if you've got a chat app or something like that

(42:48):
that has a system tray icon, it actually shows up in there.
And it's so fast. It's between the optimizations I've done at the core and Hyperland,
which was built from day one to just be as smooth as possible on Wayland.
And then you combine it with a high refresh rate monitor it's and then fully
vulcan accelerated desktop i mean it's it is the nicest setup i've ever had

(43:11):
and it's on like a 300 b-link it's ridiculous i cannot imagine how great this
would be on a brand new high-end system.
Okay so i'm just going to ask about that you've kind of been developing this
on one system have you made any attempts or do you have any plans to use this
like you know on your office workstation or on a studio machine or,
you know, some of your other setups.
Absolutely. And I'm trying to build it to be machine agnostic.

(43:33):
So there is a per machine configuration support in this.
So you'd like, right, I have my machine at home. I call it RVB because it's a B-link in the RV.
And that's just dropped inside a host folder. And you can put your different
hosts in there. And then you just on that machine, your configuration gets pointed to that.
But I would love ideas because I'm seriously think other people should try this.
Because this is probably the opposite of Bluefin. It is everything turned up to 11.

(43:59):
It is the absolute latest packages. It's using all the latest technology to
put all this together. You've got rollbacks in here.
You've got massive performance optimations that squeeze every bit of performance
out of your system that it can possibly provide, optimized for a desktop session.
And last but not least, built on top of Hyperland and the way Waybar works,
I've been able to recreate a lot of the functionality of GNOME extensions without GNOME extensions.

(44:24):
They're really just like Bash or Python on the back end, and they're really
simple, and they just put out plain text that gets inserted into the Waybar,
and there's essentially a CSS-style layout that you tell where to go in the Waybar.
And why I bring that up is because it's nearly unbreakable, at least compared to GNOME extensions.
Clearly, the Waybar developers could mess it up.

(44:47):
But it's just so simple that it's likely to persist through upgrade after upgrade
because we're just executing bash on the back end and then just getting text output.
You might not be able to do technically as much with whatever the deep hooks
into GNOME that you could do with extensions, but for all the stuff,
you just kind of want to display stuff in a bar.
Yeah, right? You don't have to deal with all the interface changes that can
happen between GNOME releases anymore.

(45:09):
You know, like an example is I like having just a small little icon in my bar
that is a screen sleep inhibitor.
So I can hit that if I know my system is going to be going for a while and my
system won't go to sleep.
And then I can come back and hit it again. And now regular, you know,
screen and sleep modes are back enabled.
And to do that, you need to get an extension in Gnome.
But that's actually, it's just commands. There's just commands getting executed.

(45:32):
And if you could just, you can just do that with a bash script and then put
an icon in the way bar for it with an emoji.
That is a great example. Yeah. You just need a thing that you can click and
then it runs a command. I mean, exactly.
Yeah, like player CTL is another great example. Like player CTL is a command
line tool to control any of the playback on your system.
And player CTL can pull metadata from applications like Firefox and,

(45:54):
you know, other applications of what's now playing and whatnot.
So if you just ran player CTL, and I think it's like dash dash metadata or whatever
you can get the, you know, commands, it'll tell you what's actively playing
on your system and what it knows about it.
And you can just capture that information and display it. You know,
it doesn't have to be a big complicated JavaScript mess that's tying in with

(46:15):
all this different stuff.
It can just be using player CTL on the command line. And so it's just a lot
more robust in the sense that it's going to survive upgrade after upgrade after upgrade.
So it's a system that's designed to just continue to run, regardless if you
update it every day or if you update it every month.
And I really think it's at a point where I just need more people looking at

(46:37):
it and finding the things that make it unique to my system.
Or finding the things that make it hard to distribute because it's about probably
two hours away from making it easily to distribute, maybe three or four hours
at most, and it could be universally distributable,
ideally like with an ISO image and an installer.
But there are things like I have my username and a couple of paths,

(47:00):
and there's a few other things that I have in my home.
There's a couple of things in there that are specific to my system that would
need variables and replaced or whatever on individual systems.
Yeah, I think if we combine like some refactoring on your upstream stuff,
and then I started taking a little look at how the NixOS ISO stuff is put together.
And I think we could get something where you could just, you know,

(47:22):
have the same graphical install experience, but at the end of the day, get HyperFive.
I love it. And it has also been a process of learning to use Hyperland and leaning
into the Hyperland workflow.
And then finally using a desktop environment that feels like my computers from 2025 and not 1998.
It's so smooth. And it really, because it's, I think, like everything that you

(47:47):
just think should work, works. Like, say you've got a game playing full screen in one desktop session.
You know, if I swap over to the other virtual desktop, nothing gets messed up.
I don't have weird stuff getting moved around or the game doesn't weird out.
Like, the mouse doesn't get stuck. Like, everything just...
Works like it should on a computer and it totally is irrelevant that i'm using
wayland is a benefit in this case because it's so performant i really am happy

(48:11):
with this and there's just no way i could use anything else and i want to move
it to my other systems i do have a couple of odd bugs that i also could use
help tracking down i created really basic prs for both of them is.
There like a term because these are vibe bug like is it a bug is there.
Yeah yeah i think so
so well i've kind of gone more manually editing now too now that i'm getting

(48:32):
more serious about it i've been making more manual tweaks oh you're taking over
maintenance huh a little bit some of them yeah so yeah yeah more and more yeah
it's funny because if you look at my github activity you can see when i'm really
jamming there's like there's periods where i'm just like commit after commit
after commit because i'm like oh this is great this is great i'm done now one more thing.
Wes can we take a moment here and just congratulate chris on like some ups on

(48:54):
sophistication here like he just said he's committing all of his versions to github this is.
The first time yes.
You've done this with your.
Next os i'm.
Seeing this like it's a flake with multi-host support this is fancy it's like
this whole week you've just like skipped a ton of steps towards uh getting way

(49:18):
more sophisticated i applaud you.
Before you know it he'll be a nix packages committer.
Necessity is also quite frequently the
mother of invention like like well if i'm gonna make this
usable by the audience i need to make this multi-host and
if i'm gonna be making these kinds of changes and i want other people to try
it i need to do version control and i need to have this up on a spot where other

(49:40):
people can see it and review it and then i was like i need to have a serious
readme too so then i went and redid to put a bunch of information in the readme
put a screenshot in there so people know how freaking rad it looks and.
You even have like a table here of key bindings.
This is really sweet.
You should do most of your like testing with the audience in mind. This is really great.
But I have a couple of bugs I need help tracking down. So I'm trying to do the

(50:02):
Hyperland desktop in a declarative way.
So you make your changes in one spot, which is in my home directory,
and then you build it and it deploys it to the proper locations where Hyperland
config and your Waybar config is supposed to be.
And the idea is, you know, you can centrally manage that.
And then next time you build, it just gets a new version.
It doesn't work. You just roll back. However, every now and then,
especially after I do a build and then reboot,

(50:25):
I come in and my key bindings have reverted to like one of the very early iterations,
that's almost more Ama Archie inspired.
I haven't like extensively tested this, but then if I build again,
I don't do like an upgrade, but I just do another build and boot and reboot
again and come back in, my config is back. It's the weirdest thing.

(50:47):
And I tried and tried to track it down. I'm not sure where it's at.
And the other issue that I could use some help tracking down is if I leave the machine for a while.
Like say I leave it on overnight.
Screen goes to sleep. Doesn't really matter if the screen goes to sleep or not.
But say the screen goes to sleep. I come back in the morning. I wake it up.
There's like a console output on the top. You can't highlight this text.
But there's just a series of errors on the top that seemingly are very helpful.

(51:12):
This is config error. And it says the path to my config file on line 69.
And it says config option declarative drop shadow does not exist.
And then same on line 70. However, I go in there, I fix it, or I look at it, I don't see an error.
And I check the logs, there's no error in any of the logs.

(51:32):
So I'm not sure where this error is actually coming from. It's very bizarre.
So these are the two issues. Other than that, I'm using it for work during the
day, and then my son is literally gaming on it all night long.
And we are I know this is not a huge deal because it's just Geometry Dash but
he's getting 300 he's maxing the game out at 360 frames per second at a 200

(51:53):
hertz refresh rate on a little B-Link and we're playing,
I'm playing Star Trek Resurgence or whatever it's called,
Star Trek Online on this thing we're playing multiple games on this tiny little
thing and it is absolutely keeping up with this Thaleo right now it's wild and
it did not start that way It did not start that way.

(52:16):
The frame rate was low. The screen was a little jerky, even though I had the
new monitor. It was having stuttering issues.
There was all kinds of little performance, like legs, that would happen,
and then it would speed back up again. And it was frustrating, the boy.
So, you know, while he was AFK, I set off on a mission to see if I could really
optimize the hell out of this thing.

(52:36):
And now it's, I mean, it's flawless in the gaming performance.
You know, within reason. It's a tiny little AMD chip in there.
But it's incredible what I'm getting out of this thing.
And so he's massively pounding on it. I'm pounding on it during the day, all day long.
And these are the two things that I've come up with that are issues so far.
Plus, it needs help with portability. And ultimately, it needs an ISO image.

(52:57):
But that is a few hours of work. And this is something really special.
While a little wild, is a hell of a Linux experience and only something you can do on Linux.
And it's going to be my distro now for my desktops. So it's not a server distro, it's a desktop distro.
And my next move is like, I got to get it working with multi monitors.

(53:18):
I suspect that's going to be pretty easy in Hyperland, but I got to get that working.
And I got to figure out a way to expand it to multiple machines that works reliably.
And then eventually I want to deploy it here in the studio too.
I have a couple of questions.
First one, last week you leaned heavily on some, let's say, AI help to design

(53:41):
this whole thing, but you just sort of teased that you slowed down on that and
you're making some manual changes.
Do you see yourself using more vibing to modify this thing, or think you're
slowing way down just permanently and doing just manual changes from now forward?
I may be at the limits. Well, two things, you know, so I was on a free,

(54:01):
like, try it out. And there, you know, no API limits.
That's over now. So, yeah.
Our paper vibe is back.
Yeah. So I'm not going to do a lot of paper vibing.
But looking up little things, you know, like maybe the syntax to do a hyperlink
config file on multi-monitor, I might use an LLM for that.
But I think I'm at the point now where I need humans to look at it with multiple

(54:25):
different systems and sort of beyond
what the tool can do, which is fine because I got pretty far with it.
And now it's really iterative stuff. So I'm totally happy with that.
But for just probably technical lookups, you know, that kind of stuff,
I could see it. Or like if I were to try to get it working on a video system.
Are you going to do official versions with fun, you know, Linux kernel style version names?

(54:49):
Well the whole thing's really all rolling so that's tricky you know the whole
thing is i mean but i kind of do.
It whenever you want right you just say yeah.
Right that's true yeah and it would really be like an update to the configs
you know major new things to the configs yeah you could see it.
Yeah you change a theme out i don't know.
I've never done the release thing on github but that could be kind of fun right
like the main repo is all the current stuff and then every now and then i just

(55:10):
carve a release when something major has been accomplished or like i've you
know Or maybe we re-based on a new version of Hyperland or something. I don't know.
Chris is going to learn about branches, everybody.
Yeah. Woo. Here we go. It has been a lot.
Like any good distribution, you need a good name. Have you come up with a name for this thing?
I'm kind of embracing the Hypervibe.
You know, because it's Hyperland and it's a vibe. You know, I'm just going with

(55:33):
Hypervibe. You know, I don't know.
Are you locking it in?
I could lock it. Do you think it's okay? I mean, what do you boys think?
Well, I think it's quick and snappy and memorable.
Yeah? Wes? Could you live with Hypervibe?
Heck yeah. It's good vibes to me.
Locked in, then. Locked in. So we'll have a link to the GitHub repo,
chrislass slash Hypervibe, if you want to check it out. if you have any suggestions

(55:56):
on making it more portable or if you try it and run into any bugs.
Right now, I'd say it's probably for the more advanced Nix user,
but I'd like to take it to somebody that just wants to, you know,
try a nice image and run with it. I'm not sure how well it would run in a VM.
It probably comes down to how well Hyperland works in a VM, which is probably
doable, but you'd want to have some 3D acceleration.

(56:16):
It's been a lot of fun. I never thought I would actually really do this either.
But I'm going for it, boys.
Go Unleash your hardware and celebrate 20 years of Unraid OS. What a milestone.
What a milestone. And to really kind of mark it, now is your opportunity to

(56:38):
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Also, if you're ready for an upgrade, you get some off that.
And if you want to grab some of the new merch to show off your HomeLab pride,
you can get 20% off that too.
Every day, they have giveaways, free licenses, merch bundles,
and they're even giving away a link station, which looks like a sweet rig.

(56:59):
So if you've got a great Unraid setup, submit it to them.
They have a Show Us Your System competition for a chance to win prizes.
You get bragging rights and, of course, get featured in that birthday bash stream
that I mentioned last week, which will be on August 31st.
That's the thing to do, really. Go mark your calendars for that big event.
Unraid's founder and guest will be joining to celebrate 20 years of Unraid and

(57:19):
to reveal the show your system winners.
So you'll want to put August 30th on your calendar.
You'll learn more by going to unraid.net slash unplugged. But giveaways,
merch, special guests, which I have a hint who a couple of them are,
and of course celebrating 20 years of Unraid, which is what I love.
I love that they have been with this for so long. and having spoken to them,

(57:41):
you know, I would have had the sense they're just a few years into this with the energy they have.
I mean, incredible energy and direction for Unraid as well.
So check it out. If you've got storage sitting around, maybe a machine you could
throw this on or you've been thinking about building one and you want to try
out all the applications we talk about all the time on this show,
Unraid will get you going in like a Saturday, right? That's the thing.

(58:03):
Like you could build all this from scratch and have like this crazy bespoke
system or you could let Unraid do the heavy lift with the Linux curation,
the VM curation, all the applications, of course, the container management,
and you supply the hardware.
And then you get up and running right away. And then they're already 20 years
in and they're still going strong.
So that's something that's going to last for a long time. Go check it out.

(58:24):
Find more about the celebration and support the show.
Go to unraid.net slash unplugged. That's unraid.net slash unplugged.
Well, this has been a great week for shout outs. And we want to welcome aboard
all sorts of new members.
We've got Zach, Anders, Trevor, Nicholas, Hanji, Alejandros, Adam, and Timothy.

(58:49):
So a huge thank you to these new members.
Woo!
And Chris, do we have any of those discount slots left?
Four left. There are four slots left for the bootleg promo code that takes 15%
off your jupiter.party membership, which is a great deal, or your core contributor membership.
Either plan gets you the bootleg or

(59:10):
the nice and tight version fully produced version of
the show and the party membership supports all the shows and the whole network
and the core contributor goes right here to this show and gets you all them
features thank you everybody that got on board this week hi yeah whoo whoo four
left use the promo code bootleg linuxunplugged.com membership or jupyter.party.

(59:34):
Now we have a little ask here from Fergus, who asks about the safety of BitChat.
He says, I heard you discussing Dorsey's new messaging app that is based on Bluetooth.
Has anyone considered the implications of creating a, quote,
secure peer-to-peer Bluetooth network in contrast with the Bluetooth surveillance
networks that are currently deployed by, say,

(59:55):
Apple with AirTags, Google, Tile, and the Amazon Sidewalk stuff?
I doubt that the target audience are Graphene OS users with an eSIM purchased in Monero.
My concern is that this opens another channel for tracking that would otherwise be inactive.
I would be interested in hearing your guys' thoughts.

(01:00:17):
I think the threat is not in so much the use of Bluetooth, it is in having Bluetooth enabled.
Like, if you have Bluetooth on, you're going to get tracked.
Right.
Right. So I don't think BitChat increases that risk.
Yeah, it will. It is pretty good. Like when you, I have my Bluetooth set to
just auto go off if I'm not using it.
And BitChat's good if when you open the app, it'll prompt you to turn it back on.

(01:00:40):
And it's a pretty slick, it doesn't, it's not super much of a fuss because I
was doing that at DEF CON constantly checking.
I didn't get many hits or anything, but you know, it was easy enough that it
wasn't a big pain to keep opening it,
turning it on just while I was using Bluetooth and then turn it all off.
I, just as an aside, have been getting three or four or maybe even more messages
a day on my Mesh-tastic TDEC out at the farm I'm staying at.

(01:01:03):
Oh.
The Mesh-tastic traffic is increasing. That's been pretty neat to see.
I need to get mine set up again. I'm slacking.
Yeah, I'd love to see if we could eventually connect. Quinn wrote in and shared his Nix setup with us.
He says, hey, Unplugged team, loving the new bootleg, and I just wanted to drop
my Nix OS configs. They're not finished, at least by my standards,

(01:01:24):
but right now it is multi-host and sets a host name based on a folder name.
It's split across four repos, and I love the name of these repos,
and I'll put the links in the show notes.
Repo 1, the formatter. Repo 2, the home.
Repo 3, the shared. And then the last repo, Repo 4, the host.

(01:01:44):
They're just great names.
And I'm going to have to take a look at it. I love it when people share their
configs. And maybe there's something we could steal in there for Hypervibe.
I like the idea of setting the host name based on a folder. That makes a lot
of sense. Thank you, Quinn.
That was good to see. now i want more i can look at configs like as a pastime
you know if we just had like something that just filtered them as they came

(01:02:06):
in and i just went to like some sort of offline reader and i could just read
through people's configs as like a short pastime before bed like.
The configs chronicles.
Oh yeah you spin the spin the dice and one up config pops up.
With a credit.
Oh that'd be Great.
Yeah, it is. And we got some great boosts this week.

(01:02:29):
In fact, Anonymous came in during the live show and is our baller booster with 71,000 sets.
That is great.
Coming on Podversus. Hi there, I finally caught up with the last episode today.
So I'll be hopefully live with you tonight. after hearing about

(01:02:49):
your summer bis dip what is
that what's a boost boost boost oh the boost dip yeah
we had the summer yeah the summer lull i thought i'd send some love and some
sets so chris i wanted to know about setting up hyperland on nyx why are so
many revisions why so many revisions and they all need a full rebuild how did
you get this done without spending so much time waiting for builds this is one

(01:03:11):
of the i'm glad you asked this,
This is actually one of the things that drew me away from Bluefin to Nix OS.
And it was the time for iteration. Not that it is super arduous to iterate on a uBlue base,
but it is a longer process, and the images are large, and they take a long time

(01:03:32):
to pull down, and then it actually does assemble them pretty quickly.
Whereas with Nix, I make a line config change, and I can do a rebuild,
and if you have a fast SSD and a fast CPU, and you're not changing very much,
it can take literal seconds.
And so you can build and build and build really quickly, deploy that,
and with Nix, you can also choose to switch to the system or you can choose to boot.

(01:03:54):
And so depending on the level of change, sometimes I would do a switch and sometimes I would do a boot.
And every time I would do a build, I'm also deploying a new version of my Hyperland
config, my Waybar config, and some of the ancillary tools that make all of that
work. That's all included and managed by Nix.
Right, and Nix is pretty good about, you know, You still have to do the full
evaluation step on your config every time, but after that, it's able to do a

(01:04:17):
diff to see what actually needs to get rebuilt and what actually needs to get restarted.
So if you're doing it, especially as you work kind of incrementally,
each time there's not that many components that are changing.
And I like that sanity check. For me, it's a nice thing to have in there,
to make sure everything's looking right and whatnot.
And then after I would do several and I would test them, I would then do a push to GitHub.

(01:04:42):
But usually for like one push to GitHub, there was probably five or 10 little
smaller things. And then, all right, this is enough. I'm going to push it now.
And you can kind of just see that going and going and going for a bit. Thank you, Anonymous.
Appreciate that boost. And if you want to boost in and let us know who you are,
we'd always love that too.
Adversaries 17 boosts in with 57,344 sats across three boosts.

(01:05:05):
Woo!
Haven't boosted in a while since I switched to Fountain. Unfortunately,
it doesn't look like Fountain supports boosting the member feeds.
And, uh, re your extreme makeover home assistant edition.
When are y'all coming to my place?

(01:05:28):
We would love to do that.
Keep boosting.
Okay, and then, uh, one last boost here. Responding to Chris's KYC society in the outro.
Definitely agree with you on how that's going to go down.
Unfortunately, that's how all governments eventually go. Just look at history.
People say, they won't take away my freedom.

(01:05:49):
Well, they already have. You just haven't gotten caught in the crosshairs yet.
Once you're in the crosshairs, the agenda pushers will stop at nothing to rid
you of everything you ever knew.
Woo! Adversary is keeping it real. Keeping it real.
Yeah, I'm sorry about the, uh, it's so ironic that the members can't boost and
the members want to boost. That's so amazing.
But it's probably not going to really get resolved until we can swap out memberful.

(01:06:16):
That might be what it takes. I'm not quite sure there, but well,
the real problem is that it's a private feed actually.
And a fountain looks up the value splits via the podcast index API.
And so if the podcast isn't published on the index, which it's not for a private
member feed, there is nothing to look up via the API.
It is something that really bugs us too though. So we can solve it.

(01:06:38):
But we will definitely do so.
Thank you for the boost. It's nice to hear from you. Missed you.
Well, Mick ZP came in with two boosts for a total of 40,000 sets.
Mick says, I just hate hearing that damn lowered expectation soundbite.

(01:07:00):
I'm not going to play it.
It's only when we don't meet expectations.
Well, I think we're meeting expectations a little more this week,
thanks to Mick ZP's boost.
Yeah, we need a meeting expectations boost.
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what all the other sounds are, are meeting expectations.
Okay, we'll pick one of those.
Do you have a special meeting expectations boost there?

(01:07:27):
How's that there you go there you go oh is that it okay that's it huh thank
you it's nice to hear from you mixip and uh i love that boost hey there's hybrid
sarcasm coming in right now,
25 000 sats i hear boosts are on sale so get them while they're hot by the way

(01:07:49):
how are the 2025 boosties looking oh i don't know if we want to talk about that right now yeah.
I'm way behind but maybe maybe sometime in the next couple of weeks i can uh
get caught up and um do a preliminary take take a look at uh that doesn't see
at least who's in the front running.
It's you know it's one of those things where i

(01:08:11):
actually think the overall total number of sats will be probably significantly
down from last year because like last year we did uh i think it was last year
we did the uh you know scale trip i think maybe i don't know but my point being
i think the total amount of sats boosted in may be down but the value may be up.
Yeah yeah true.
Not sure we'll find out thank you for checking and it's it's nice to hear from

(01:08:34):
your hybrid appreciate you retro.
Gear boosts in with 20 000 sats,
I've been playing with Libre NMS for a work project to monitor radio repeater
sites via a microwave network.
The monitoring also includes the radio repeater devices and DC power equipment.

(01:08:55):
Alert notifications are excellent with many platforms to choose from.
I wonder what your thoughts are, or have you used it? I did have a quick look
at Zabbix, but the UI seemed clunky.
Keep up the great work, team. I wouldn't be doing what I am now without LUP and self-hosted. P.S.
Don't forget about those ham radio licenses.

(01:09:16):
Good reminder.
Don't worry we haven't I was just chatting with a family member this week about
ham radio came up and I was like yeah I'm definitely gonna get it eventually
the audience wouldn't wouldn't forgive us if we didn't.
I took a quick look at Libre NMS and it looks pretty good better than I expected
I don't know what I expected but for some reason it looked better than I expected
I am down to get some decent monitoring going,

(01:09:38):
I don't think there's a lot of content in that. Other than once you have it
all set up, I guess we can have some takeaways.
But I would very much be interested to know what people are using these days.
Back in my day, Libre NMS did not exist. But I wonder if it might be based on
a project that I'm familiar with. Because it does look vaguely familiar.
Yeah, it looks like good stuff. I had the same. I didn't ever get to quite use
it. I think maybe it had just started when I last took a peek at these kinds of things.

(01:10:02):
But hey, we need more Libre options in this space. So glad to see it. I'm curious.
Thank you for the boost.
Well, Otterbrain boosted in 15,000 sets.
Sorry for the late boost. I'm listening live. Just got back from the wilderness
and gearing up for that academic year.

(01:10:22):
Hey! Thank you, Otterbrain. Nice to hear from you. Thanks for the check-in and thanks for the update.
The academic year is nigh, isn't it? That's the thing in my household, too.
Good luck. Once you get started, let us know how it's going.
Well, PJ's here with 6,666 sets.

(01:10:44):
He says, Darn near every boosted-in app and JB app pick has piqued my interest
this episode. Thanks for opening a few more permanent tabs on my phone browser.
Also, I've recently tried FFShare, and I've tried it a number of times,
and it typically makes my files even bigger.
That one time I sent a WebM was from my laptop. Oh, because we called him out.

(01:11:05):
And now he's got to defend himself on a web.
That one time I sent a WebM from my laptop. It was using a quick cut editor. You recommend it.
So it's our fault?
Telegram rented a fine on the desktop, just not on mobile. I do love a good
roast, though. Put some mac and cheese on there for me if you would, too. You got it, PJ.

(01:11:26):
Yeah, I wonder, I'll have to play more with FFShare just because I wonder if
you can change like your Q values or other things.
That's what I always do on the command line. It's just kind of turn the quality
down somewhere reasonable, at least for things you don't really,
you know, need precise quality on. I don't know what it defaults to in its settings.
But thank you for the experience report, PJ.
Yeah.
I'm thinking PJ doesn't understand what FFShare is for. It takes what you've

(01:11:49):
got and it boosts up the quality, doesn't it?
Yeah, make it, you know, make it better. And you can always add bits, you know.
They might be you hands you ai enhance boom get.
Into the modern world there pj.
It might be ai that imagines the bits that it adds but you can always add bits.
Galactic starfish boosts in with 7777 sets

(01:12:11):
i am not quite a
completionist but i'm not that far from it occasionally i take breaks from podcasts
all together but when the big when the breaks become too lengthy i compromise
and skip all but the most interesting one to five in the gap per podcast that
said i'm never late to twib hey.

(01:12:32):
There we go.
Up 616 sre rip 148 launch 29 keep up the good work and thanks for all you do.
Nice check-in oh.
You got the deets on that one.
Appreciate that thanks galactic good to hear from you.
Well tomatoes here with three boosts for a Total of 9,999 sets.

(01:12:57):
Well, I jumped ahead to listen to 626 and 627 while catching up,
throwing in some support.
I agree, we need a good modern in-kernel file system.
I'm also still frustrated at the BZF attitude of the kernel devs with regard to ZFS.
If they'd embrace it as an external project with a special status,

(01:13:21):
this, the file system story would have been so much better.
I think you and I are on the same page there, Tomato. Like,
I'm not expecting them to make allowances for something that's not licensed
properly, but also not really understanding the user's perspective and never
coming to a middle at all on it has been frustrating for those of us that want
to run these things in production.

(01:13:42):
Thank you for the boost. Nice to hear from you, Tomats.
I think this is a new one.
Doornail7887, I think, maybe new, comes in with a row of ducks.
You guys mentioned a boost barn previously. Does that exist?
Is there a place where you post the messages to?
That was a self-hosted thing because we didn't put all of the boosts above 2,000 sats on the show.

(01:14:04):
However, you have Podverse, so it's a little tricky. But if you go to,
I think you can get on the Fountain FM website, either in the Fountain app or
in the Fountain FM website. You can read all the boosts.
To Brent's help and call out in episode 627, I'm not a Knicks user,
but it got me wondering if there wasn't some sort of interesting combination of Pixie Boot and Knick.
That might make deploying these machines a lot easier to manage.

(01:14:26):
Yes.
Yeah, he said, I'm going to grow that. I'm going to add that to my growing half-baked
ideas stash. I actually think it's not half-baked at all, actually.
That's a good idea.
Pixie and Nix are a match made in Linux distro heaven.
And Pixie is so nice, and you have less things to fail in the machine.
This is also exactly the reason we ask for your ideas, is that you come up with
something that we had never even considered that's probably an even better idea. So thank you.

(01:14:50):
Yeah, that's a good one. i'd like i actually would like to do that for the machines
in the studio why you know except for the recording machine why do they need
local hard drives totally right one day one day distro.
Stew boosts in with 11 100 and 11 sets,

(01:15:12):
Yes, to Flatpak. It's not the best, but it's really getting there.
I generally try to install as much as I can through Flatpak.
Then if it doesn't work there, I fall back to the native package manager.
This really speeds up my Nix updates too.
True. That is true.
But what about terminal or server apps? Snap is the closest thing I can think

(01:15:34):
of in that direction, but I've not really dabbled what do y'all think.
I think this is the realm of containers that's why flat pack doesn't really
bother with it and while it is handy to have snap packages on server i mean
i like that i think outside of that ecosystem wouldn't you say it's people use
containers for that type of job.
Yeah probably so i mean obviously for the server side stuff containers are pretty

(01:15:56):
much king and more and more you do see i mean you know you can just run a terminal app from, you know,
a Podman run or Docker run command, or you could use something like Toolbox or Distrobox too.
So there are a lot more options there now.
Yeah, when we were doing the TUI challenge, there was a couple of times where
it's like a Podman runs essentially a one-liner, and then I've got the application up and going.

(01:16:17):
That's how I was running my web browser with the whole TUI challenge,
actually. So it worked for me that way.
And actually, you know, it's not quite contained in the same way,
but Nix can work well for TUI apps too, if you're willing to have that on your system.
Well, Marcel sends in a row of ducks. i
particularly liked this past episode i'm not
sure why it didn't get the usual support though i don't boost often because

(01:16:39):
i put my support on autopilot as you like to say with the that jupiter.party
membership but since you mentioned the low boost numbers i wanted to write in
and vote for more content like this keep up the good work.
Well thank you marcel message received i I appreciate that signal.
We can count on it right there.
Just like kangaroo paradox, who's it's been a minute. I'll be dead boys.

(01:17:04):
He's back. And he came in with 12,345 sats.
Well, I've built behind on the shows these past weeks, slowly catching up as
time rolls on, and I wanted to give a shout-out to the bootleg version of Unplugged,
where you can hear Chris, uh-oh, admitting that Vim's superiority to Nano.

(01:17:27):
It's in episode 618, The Tooey Challenge.
And Wes enjoying the situation just all too much.
Confirmed.
He says, I teased the time, but it's well worth the dime. Oh,
he says, I teased, but it's well worth the dime. Thank you.
Oh, you're so sweet.
I kind of vaguely recall that conversation.
Oh, I very much recall that conversation.

(01:17:48):
What you don't see in the audio version of the podcast is the pipe that Wes
brought to the studio that day. It seems to have worked in this case.
Oh, man. Thanks, kangaroo. You outed my secret.
Turd Ferguson boosts in with 13,000 sets.

(01:18:08):
I'm curious if Brent was going to make his own distribution,
Brunch OS, obviously, what would the focus be and what would it be based.
On oh yeah oh goodness good question
oh turd i have never
considered doing this i guess now i should start thanks so
much for that burden and i think brunch

(01:18:30):
os would clearly have some like deep privacy implications so that would be one
of its main focuses you know we would try to be bug free but that's you know
always a hard thing but it would clearly and obviously be based on Gentoo.
Oh, there you go. I would love to try that, actually. I would love to try that.

(01:18:55):
Thank you, turd. Appreciate the boost.
Leclament comes in with 15,000 sets.
My AI companion is OpenCode, which allows me to keep NeoVim as my main editor.
I migrated a significant part of my home lab from floating Docker Compose to a monorepo Nix OS.

(01:19:20):
This is a perfect setup for AI.
Cool.
How about that? So you can still use NeoVim. That's nice. That's really nice.
I love hearing about these setups.
Also, look at that, boys. They boosted from their own self-hosted AlbiHub.
Boom. Oh, how can they? Well, there, you don't get the claps then.
No, this was from Fountain, but it sounds like there's interest,

(01:19:41):
which we should applaud, I think.
Yes, that's true. Okay, all right, okay, that's fine.
Step one is go listen to This Week in Bitcoin episode 68. I have the co-founder
of Albie on there just so you get some broader context.
And then, you know, getalbie.com to get started.
I think it's even easier if you have a system that allows you to deploy,

(01:20:01):
like, application containers because it's packaged up for a lot of those,
like Start9 and Umbral and Unraid and all kinds of stuff.
So if you have a system like that already in place, it's just a one-click away
to get going. But you can also just run it as a container image too.
It's really amazing how straightforward they've made it.
And I bet if you, just going by what you've got going for your home lab,

(01:20:22):
I think you'd probably get it running pretty quickly.
And then from there you want the Albi extension, right?
And then you could use an app like Podverse that can call out to that to then talk to your node?
Or Podcast Index.
Right.
Or Cast-O-Matic if you're on iOS is really good. So there's a few options there.
You get kind of like this universal backend. Good question and good luck.

(01:20:43):
Let us know. Let us know.
Chlorophor comes in with a row of ducks.
Started AlbiHub instance 14 days ago and learned quite a lot.
I even did an open direct channel to Chris's node to decrease fees and to help us with liquidity.
More to come. But no channels for Brent or Drew.
Zero zero zero zero is not a good routable ip address for a node.

(01:21:05):
Yeah i think this is a bug in a particular version of lb it might might be fixed
now but i noticed that early on too is that the the public address they were
reporting was that but uh props that you're doing direct connects i mean that's
awesome thanks for the boost you.
Know thank you thank you for that and these really because brent and drew are

(01:21:26):
taking advantage of the subwall feature they're not their actual own node so
that's why that bug crops up nice spot good job.
The one the only the gene bean comes in with 2048 sets,
The challenge with everything being Flatpaks, though solvable,
is that things like 1Password's Firefox extension don't properly work with the

(01:21:49):
desktop app. This has been painful.
That's good to know. Right, like anytime you do containerization,
you got to get all the right holes poked through and plumbing put in,
and sometimes, you know, those aren't all ready in all the places.
We need another portal. That's what we need. Another portal.
The password portal.
Yeah, or something. The browser extension portal? I don't know.
Something. Yeah, that's painful.

(01:22:11):
And then Gene goes on replying to LUP625 regarding who could filter or test
Flatpaks, talking about like the future of Flatpaks and Fedora.
Get the package maintainers from distros to help with that, which you are saying as I type this.
I love it. This was a live boost, you know, to local to Gene being as Gene was

(01:22:32):
listening, which is rad.
Gene, that's one of the things I love about the boost is that button's right
there on the player, right? So as you're listening, you can hit the button and
send us the feedback while it's fresh in your mind. You don't lose it.
And that's exactly what Gene does. And I really appreciate that.
Thank you, everybody who boosted in. And thank you to you sat streamers who
set that sat stream while you listen.
We had 27,189 sats come in.

(01:22:54):
And that is not too bad right there. It's a decent little boost all in itself.
When you combine that with everybody who sent a message, including the folks
below the 2000sat cutoff, We stacked a grand total of 340,145 sats.

(01:23:14):
This is a value for value podcast and what that means is we put the show out
there for free and if you enjoy it you send some value back that could be your
time participating in our community could be talent maybe you'd like to help
us make some texas linux festival swag or it can be in treasure with a boost
or a membership this is an
independent podcast that is focused on making the best product for its audience.

(01:23:36):
And we always want our audience to be our number one partner,
not an advertiser, not dynamic ads, but the people consuming the content.
It's a radical idea, but I think it's the best way to have genuine good content on the internet.
There's not a lot of people doing it. And so we appreciate everybody who's helping make it possible.
You can do a boost with Fountain FM. They make it real easy or self-host with AlbiHub.

(01:24:09):
All right, we've got to let everybody know that I think we're going to be going
into a wee bit of overtime here because we got too many picks.
And this one I'm putting out there to get feedback from the audience. I'll start with this.
It's called Papera, and it's a minimal document archiving platform.
This is something I struggle with. I'm sure a lot of people do.

(01:24:31):
You want to archive your documents in a digital way that makes them easy to
tag and retrieve later on. This is a project under active development,
but the core functionality is stable and ready for use.
And it has lots of features and more coming.
It organizes your documents. You know, you can categorize family, friend, business.
You can share certain categories with colleagues. It makes it super easy to

(01:24:51):
quickly share the documents with full text search.
It has user authentication. It has a responsive design so you can use it on mobile.
Yes, it is open source. It's AGPL 3.0. You can self-host it.
You can tag your documents.
It has email integration. It has content extraction. It can automatically extract
the text from images or scan documents, making it available for search.

(01:25:12):
Ooh.
Huge.
This looks nice.
It has a command line interface, if you want. It has an API. It has webhooks.
I mean, it's got a lot of the stuff, Wes. I know there's PaperlessNG,
and there's other ones out there.
This is something I'd be very interested in adopting, and I'm really curious
if anybody has input. and paper a p-a-p-r-a which i'll have linked in the show

(01:25:33):
notes as well as the demo looks like a real contender here boys i.
Like how they call out self-hosting right like they've got a.
Yeah under.
200 meg docker image compatible with x86 arm 64 and arm v7.
You know you should be thanking me brent you should be thanking me for this
pick i'm doing the lift here for you because you're living the hashtag van life now.

(01:25:53):
Ah and you want me to live kind of efficient and keep all those documents stored somewhere safe.
Are you gonna bring are you gonna bring all of your records all of your cat's
vet records all their stuff with you everywhere you go forever as you just collect
more and more as you become an old man and then god forbid what happens if something
happens to the rig and you lose your documents you know i.

(01:26:13):
Appreciate how you're slowly trickling in the problems to solve with this van
life uh new lifestyle that you've somehow yeah.
Where he didn't say this back in california did he.
I might have left that bit out yeah but you know through the pick segment i
can help you along you know i appreciate.
It i also think maybe if you consider uh like perhaps this project might be canadian it's paper a.

(01:26:36):
Paper a maybe paper a paper a it.
Is a gpl.
Paper a i i don't have the natural positive canadian up talk with the a yeah
i really have to work on that i'm not big on the up talk thing so that's fine.
We'll get happy.
Well, Canadians. From the category of where was this during the TUI challenge,

(01:26:58):
we have Lou, which is a terminal e-book reader with text-to-speech.
And isn't it pretty? I mean, look at that interface.
It's beautiful. I really do actually wish I knew about this sooner because I
could see even if you're just reading a manual that's in an e-book format or
something or, you know, some book related to what you're working on.
It supports EPUBs, PDF, text, docx.

(01:27:21):
Obviously, doc files, HTML, RTF, markdown.
All just automatically detected. The text-to-speech system is modular.
You don't have to have it. It can run locally if you do want it.
It saves your place. It switches between reading and speaking,
and it saves your place. It's GPL3.
It's got nice intuitive keyboard shortcuts.

(01:27:42):
Including Vim-like shortcuts, if you'd like.
Oh, good. Good. And I guess surprisingly smooth scrolling and transitions for
a terminal app, which I think is just a funny thing to actually call out.
But there it is hey that looks so good and.
Of course it uses our beloved ffmpeg.
Under the hood yeah yeah and then if you're going to try out hypervibe and you

(01:28:03):
want to take it to the absolute max i guess i do have my limits i didn't do
this out of the box i have my limits it's called wlg block wayland gameboy locker.
Yeah this project replaces the usual password screen with a gameboy emulator
running a patched pokemon game so to unlock your session you have to solve a

(01:28:25):
little challenge kind of like a mini escape room built into your os.
Yeah a pokemon puzzle kind of thing and then you unlock the screen uh you got
a lot of time on your hands if you're using this and.
You can tell um something this crazy clearly came from a nix user and yes there
is a flake in there and there's a nix os logo in the little demo video so we're

(01:28:47):
we're just that type aren't we.
My goal is to get you to try out the Hypervibe setup on your ancient laptop
and see if you notice a performance difference. And then I think you should get this going.
Oh yeah, that sounds like a good homework item from this show.
I mean, I'd love to see it. Not a temporary K exec. I'm on to you.

(01:29:08):
I'm on to you. I think you should try to convert your base to Nick system.
Full swap, okay.
Go all in. Go all in and see if you can make Hyperland work.
See if you notice the performance improvement. see if your fans run more give
me feedback on it you know in fact i extend that to everybody
go try it out and give me feedback and let me know also i
want you to boost in and tell me if you think i'm off guard on the bcash fs

(01:29:29):
situation and what your resolution could be i
mean if you had a magic wand for one day and could solve this how would you
solve it it's not necessarily an easy problem people problems well they matter
right it's right now we're in a situation where it's feels over features but
it's a project of people so boost in maybe i'm off i'd love to hear your take
on it, even if you disagree with me.

(01:29:49):
And of course, we will be live at the same time on the same bat channel next week.
It's on a Sunday, so you can make it a Tuesday on a Sunday when you come and
join us. We start at 10 a.m. Pacific, usually a little earlier than that even.
1 p.m. Eastern, local time at jblive.tv.
Now, Wes, there's something really important we need to remind the audience

(01:30:11):
about an extra set of features they have.
It's that they can watch us live in their podcasting app, right?
That's one of them. And we got transcripts, too. We got chapters.
Yeah, we do. Cloud chapters, magic JSON, floating in the clouds, ready for you.
That's right.
For you.
Not just crammed in there, but JSON chapters. It's beautiful.

(01:30:32):
Links to what we talked about today at linuxunplugged.com slash 628.
Thanks for joining us. See you next Sunday.

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