637: Chris' Smart Home Disaster

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You know, I realized, you know, those cigars you got for the van success,
we should have smoked those with Drew, just saying.
Now we've got to go back to Denver.
We keep putting off the success cigars. I think the key thing I was waiting
for is, what really makes them special is you smoke them while you're going
down the road, and you crack the windows, and you get like a half a day of cigar smell going.

(00:24):
Oh. Oh, so you and I need to be on the same road trip and Wes can be there too
in the backseat. And then I got another empty seat.
We should play on something. Just smoke that place out.
I mean, it'd probably make it smell better. It smells like the 90s in here.
Hey, I like the 90s.

(00:52):
Hello, friends, and welcome back to our weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris.
My name is Wes.
And my name is Brent.
Hello, gentlemen. It's really everyone's weekly talk show. It's kind of an open
source weekly talk show.
And today, I'm going to confess to my biggest smart home failure in probably seven years.
And it happened the night right before our Texas trip.

(01:13):
I'll tell you what broke, how I kind of pulled it all back together,
how Wes would probably fix it right, and then my future build plans.
They'll round out the show with some great picks, some boosts,
some shout-outs, and more.
So before we go any further, got to say time-appropriate greetings to that virtual lug.
Hello, Mumble Room. There's one of you in the audience.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, hello, hello. I'll say it for everyone. Hello.

(01:34):
Oh, I see Minimax up there staging. We have Autobrain inbound and a bunch of
people up in quiet listening, too.
Everybody's sneaking in right under the deadline, right as the intro music's going.
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(02:44):
Now, we have just, I wanted to say thanks again. Not a lot in the housekeeping,
but thank you again to everybody who made, I think, one of the best trips we've
done in a while. I think it was my favorite trip of the year.
What made it your favorite?
Well, the race was a good part of it. That was a lot of fun, racing down.
Only because you won.
No, I think it would have been fun either way. I think that would have,
because it was just a good challenge.
Yeah, I mean, we got to see a bunch of the country. We ran into listeners and,

(03:07):
like, various interesting things along the way.
and right then the destination we got to see you and
your cats and see the van again and see everybody at
texas linux fest and visit austin which is always a good time plus we were able
to swing by system 76 and drew which we hadn't planned for at all when we set
out on the voyage so yeah i think in terms of like both achieving what we set

(03:30):
out for and like you know the uh
randomness of the road rolled in our favor.
Yeah it was it was nice to have the flexibility and have
the creative license that the audience trusted us with to go
out there and do it and then having an event in october and it'll be november
next year it's it's just it was the right amount of time after just event after

(03:51):
event after event and we sort of had a breather so it was we were recharged
and ready to go again um so i thought it was the best trip i guess you probably
partied pretty hard at pretty hardy in nix vegas.
That's true yeah that was a that was It was also a spectacular trip,
but I didn't have you guys with me. So, you know, I can only hit so high.
We also have some good news. After a lot of hard work by Mr.

(04:14):
Westpain, our Matrix server is back online.
Yeah, sorry about that, everyone. Thanks for your patience. Several billion
state groups, state rows later, here we are.
Many, yeah, multiple numbers of billions. Yeah, it was a lot.
Yeah, and more than a terabyte of data gone.
Yeah.
In a good way.
Yeah. So there's been some account cleanups.

(04:36):
Yeah, main thing here is mostly just, well, let us know if you see stuff that's
broken. And in particular, we suspended a bunch of stale accounts.
But if we suspended anyone by mistake, do reach out.
Let us know. Thank you.
Okay, so, I mean, I've been doing the smart home thing for a while,
tinkered with various different platforms, you know, the Amazon platform,

(04:58):
the Google platform, the Apple platform, but inevitably would burn out on them
or would have some sort of issue.
about seven years ago I think I discovered Home Assistant,
and it really started, kicked off the I'd say smart home lifestyle and it's been now,
I only buy things that will integrate with Home Assistant and they integrate

(05:23):
out of the box so I don't do the thing where I buy a smart product and see later
on maybe I can make it work with Home Assistant It's.
Kind of like the dance Linux users are used to, right? Yes You buy hardware
with your software in mind. Although I think in both cases, right, it's gotten better.
Yes, very much so. But just to underscore it, when the device goes in,
whether it be a fan or a heater or a bug controller or lights for a barbecue

(05:47):
area or a heater in a bathroom or whatever,
it's integrated into Home Assistant first. And that's how it's always used initially.
It's never used in the way it comes out of the box. So to say it's integrated
into my home, my home is essentially a robot. I mean, it really is.
And it has made our quality of life better because we live in a small space

(06:07):
and having just climate control that is smart is really good.
But also what I learned later on into my home assistant journey is something
I don't think newbies out there that haven't gone down this path yet realize
is it's very useful to have data.
So if you have not deployed home assistant or you're a smart home skeptic,

(06:27):
please listen to this next point.
Having various bits of data about power usage in your home, water usage,
if you have solar, your solar production, water leaks, motion and presence logs, even long-term things.
Like I have sensors in my fridge and my freezer.
And I can see if it's not performing as well over time. And so I can start to

(06:51):
budget for a new fridge before my refrigerator fails.
These are really powerful tools that I don't think people realize are available
to them before they've gone down this journey.
So it's extremely useful. Like I could just never go back, at least not while living in Jubes.
But recently, I had one of the worst failures ever.
And it was the worst kind of timing. I was telling the boys about it.

(07:14):
It happened within a 24-hour window before we left for Austin.
And I realized it literally the night I was packing because I went to hit a
button and nothing happened. Oh, that's odd.
Oh, I can imagine. I can almost feel the sinking feeling, right?
At first, you're writing it off. Your brain's trying to explain it all away.

(07:34):
Oh, it's probably a temporary failure.
And then the evidence starts piling up.
How bad, Wes? How bad could it be? The other thing I noticed is in my office
slash the bathroom, because JOOPS is a small space after all.
the automatic lighting and heating wasn't working.
And so like when you enter the room, presence is detected and a WLED light strip

(07:58):
that's in a diffuser that spans the length of the wall turns on and in the night,
it's a real soft ambient glow.
And during the day, it's a little brighter and it just wasn't triggering at all.
And I noticed the heat wasn't triggering. So I start doing the math and I'm like, oh,
These are all Zigbee devices. These are all Zigbee devices that are not working.

(08:20):
So I sat down at Old Home Assistant, and the first thing I noticed is I had
never seen this before, but there was an update pending for my Zigbee radio.
And then just as a refresher here, you have smart devices of all kinds, right?
Like Wi-Fi connected, Zigbee connected, and Z-Wave connected.

(08:41):
And this is particularly a Zigbee issue.
Yes. So not everything was broken. So it wasn't obvious at first because a lot
of things are Z-Wave or Wi-Fi.
But it's the really low power cheap stuff because Zigbee is 2.4 gigahertz based.
You don't have to get it licensed.
And so it brings the cost down. It's like a lot of little plugs and buttons and stuff are Zigbee.

(09:03):
I won't be buying those anymore. But so I saw this firmware update,
which I'd never seen before for my Home Assistant Yellow's built in Zigbee radio
adapter. And I didn't apply it because I kind of wanted to figure out why things weren't working.
I did later install it as a troubleshoot. And I was like, you know,
when you're at the YOLO stage, you're like, all right, I'll try the firmware update.
Right, at this point. Is it going to break worse?
I don't know. Right, exactly. I did get to that point, but I wasn't there yet.

(09:26):
So I popped into the Zigbee integration, and I noticed that it was in a failed-to-initialized
state. And I noticed something was off.
Home Assistant now listed two identical Zigbee radios that had the same duplicate
devices. One was labeled like the Home Assistant Yellow Zigbee and one was labeled
Hub Z Zigbee Comport Controller.

(09:48):
did i maybe did i connect a second one right that's strange.
You like we're halfway through a switch.
Or playing.
With something forgot about it never went back the thing rebooted now it sees it.
Weren't you planning on buying an upgrade.
Yeah i thought well maybe i wanted to right i was like maybe i was gonna set
up an upgrade or something like that so you know i'm looking ls usb then i physically

(10:09):
look at the device i'm like no i only have one radio on this thing what's going on here,
Maybe there was something I had done wrong, but as far as I could tell,
a second ghost adapter had just shown up.
And I didn't really know what to do. I turned on the debug logs.
They told me that the Zigbee service couldn't start.
All of the online stuff says, well, maybe you have another integration that's conflicting. I did not.

(10:30):
So I YOLO'd in and I decided I'm going to delete one of these adapters,
but I don't know which one to delete.
Do I delete the one that's named correctly or this new ghost one that shows up?
I don't know, Brent, which one, in this case, which adapter rolling the dice would you delete?
Well, and I feel like you didn't necessarily look, you haven't looked at this

(10:52):
in the past because it's just like a thing you don't need to worry about.
So you don't actually have a memory of what it's named.
You didn't put a custom name on this adapter or anything. It's just like a 50-50?
Yeah.
Oh, gosh. I guess...
I guess I would want to delete the one that didn't sound like Linux had named it.

(11:14):
Okay, but in theory, Home Assistant was configured to work with the correctly named one.
Yes.
But was not working.
Correct. That was my thinking.
Yeah, okay. I can see the argument.
So I went ahead and I deleted the one labeled Home Assistant yellow Zigbee adapter.
Wow. That's risky. Wow.
No, I didn't know. And I'm like, and it's like, do I just lose all my devices? and my oh right.

(11:39):
Is this like a cascade delete that'll just.
Right okay and I have to repair everything or something and then also I'm doing
the math on like the cost could I could I just,
replace them with Zigbee versions but it's like 30 ish devices so maybe even
more it might be 60 I don't know it's a lot of devices it's between 60 and 30 this.

(12:01):
Is an unbudgeted.
Cost here exactly this.
Is how you know you have a problem.
Oh well you know there's a lot of sensors There's a lot of sensors and motion
and open and close sensors.
So I delete the one that's properly labeled, and I just hope that the generic
Hub Z Zigbee Comport controller one is the correct one.
I delete it, and I reboot the box because there isn't a built-in way to just restart Zigbee.

(12:27):
You just got to restart Home Assistant and reboot the whole box.
So I did that, and it came back up, and my Zigbee devices were just working.
and the Zigbee integration started and apparently I randomly picked the right
one to delete and everything resumed.
So I've been trying to track down what kind of happened here.

(12:49):
And my best guess is a firmware update, maybe I did apply it and I don't remember
or it was partially applied automatically.
It somehow changed the state of the radio and the Linux system underneath ended
up exposing multiple serial endpoints or something. when this happened. And then...
There was a conflict, the firmware update couldn't continue,

(13:13):
and things ended in this sort of hung state.
The Zigbee integration saw both endpoints trying to connect to it.
And by deleting the non-functional entry, I forced the Zigbee integration to
rebind to the working controller, even though maybe both were working,
I don't know, and then restored the network.
But I'm not sure. And the thing that sucks is the entire time I was in Texas,

(13:34):
none of the Zigbee devices were working. So a lot of the presence detection stuff was just broken.
And you couldn't do anything. You were on the road.
Couldn't do anything. And I have no idea what caused it, really.
And you hadn't, like, done some big update. Obviously, you hadn't done the firmware
update. That would maybe make sense if the name changed post-firmware.
I agree.
I have a theory.
Uh-huh. Please.

(13:54):
Your dear, lovely wife has been listening to you gripe about that,
you know, you need a new controller.
so she got some advice from you know close friends and got a new one and tried to like in the night,
plug it in and see if it just kind of worked and uh then all of a sudden everything
went wrong and she just quietly hid it and returned it to amazon.

(14:16):
I like this theory but wouldn't you be implicated in this story most likely i'm.
Just trying to save her at this point.
I did think it
was funny the day after i solved all of this not related but the day after i
solved all of this the home assistant team posted on x that they're ending production
of the home assistant yellow they're going to continue to support it so it's

(14:37):
still going to get patches and updates but that's no longer in production is.
It possible like home assistant did some sort of auto updates that happen.
I have to go in and turn them on it could have been it could have happened after
the last os update and i didn't notice at first because so many things were still working,
Um, because like Brent said, it's one of these things that you don't really

(14:58):
think about. It has been so consistent and so reliable.
And thankfully this turned out to be a pretty minor thing to correct.
The implications and the risk were high, but it was pretty minor thing.
Uh, but I, it has got me thinking about like what to do in the future.
Right. Cause this was stuff that was just shipped on the device,

(15:18):
right? You kind of just bought this one box to run home assistant with Zigbee built in.
And now it's out of production.
So you can't just hot swap into a new one.
Can't just hot swap i mean it'll be supportive for a while but and
also i think i'm outgrowing this even you know
i noticed this especially when we built brent's new home assistant
i just don't quite have enough horsepower but i also i kind of been rethinking

(15:38):
the way to do my mobile home lab and change up the hardware in general and it
seems like maybe this this home assistant yellow going out of you know going
end of life and my I need to kind of rework my home lab hardware in my RV for my mobile home lab.
The two things are kind of coming together, and I'm kind of starting to form a plan.

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Now, Chris, you and I care quite a lot about power usage. And,
well, you mentioned how stats is a game changer for you.

(21:50):
So I would imagine that's top of mind for you in designing this potential new situation.
The next-gen build. Can I call it that? I don't know. Is that too corny?
But it feels really... I feel like it's going to be my next-gen build.
Yeah, obviously Raspberry Pis could be one route. You get like a max of 10 watts there.
Yeah, did you jump off at the 4? When did you make it? Okay.

(22:10):
So there is at least a generation to change.
Of course, the N100 or N150 Intel platform, pretty competitive, 8 to 12 watts when idle.
Not bad.
Not too bad. And then there's the optimized TMM mini PC chips, 7 to 12 watts when idle.
And then, of course, a desktop PC is going to be like, what,

(22:31):
45 watts, something like that when idle? That's not really an option.
If you're running off of a lithium battery bank and solar, every little watt
counts because it's always going, right?
It's a cumulative thing. so I think oh.
That's why you didn't include Xeon on the.
Right I think my ideal would be like an N100 N150 low power x86 PC that runs

(22:54):
everything so right now I have a pie hole and I have a,
raspberry pi that does camera feeds when I turn it on and then I have an oDroid that runs my,
entire self hosting home stack basically all the applications we talk about
on this show it's You know, got to be damn near 30 apps running on that thing.
And, you know, on the top of the list, Jellyfin and Nextcloud and ersatz TV

(23:16):
and, you know, like really important stuff that I use every single day.
So it's like a pretty critical box.
And why not replace that? Oh, and then I have the Home Assistant Yellow.
Why not replace all of those with one mini PC if possible?
That would be the ideal, right? But Home Assistant, Jellyfin and all the R tools
and Image and Nextcloud and ersatz, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

(23:37):
put that all on one system using VMs,
But I think I'm worried, and I would really like the audience's feedback here,
because I'm kind of hoping to do this early 2026.
I don't know if I can find a box powerful enough to host all that.
Because I want a significant upgrade for Home Assistant, but then I want the

(23:58):
headroom to run all of this stuff, and things like Image and ersatz TV that
need hardware acceleration.
And you're not really willing to cut things, at least to start, right? So, yeah.
You want more, but your power budget isn't more. Right.
But Chris, I remember your argument when you were orchestrating this current
build was you wanted Home Assistant on its own device so that if the machine

(24:22):
you keep adding more VMs to decides to, you know,
not go so hot, then your home stays consistent and stays constant and you're
never tinkering with that particular application.
So why the move away from that philosophy?
I think it's a great philosophy. I blame Wes.
What did I do?

(24:43):
Well, we were talking about it last night, and we'll get into it more.
And it just sort of like it... When you're switching to the Intel platform and
you're using more power...
I can't have multiple boxes. Like that's where my power savings has to come
from is I eliminate some of the boxes.
Because it's not just, it's like I'm going to put as much storage into these
things as possible. They're going to have external devices plugged into them. That draws power.

(25:07):
So as a matter of compromise, I think I'm going to go to VM isolation for like
things like Home Assistant or something and just do one box.
It's not really my preference, but because I want to get more out of Home Assistant,
I would like to increase the performance of Home Assistant.
I think I'm at the limits of what I'm going to get from the ARM platforms right now. I could be wrong.
But something that's like, I don't know if it's out there, an N150 that takes

(25:28):
32 gigs of RAM and you could put up to 8 terabytes of storage in.
Is such a thing out there?
I'm not so sure. I was also looking at maybe some of the quote-unquote enterprise
hardware, like a ThinkCenter M720Q or an Optiplex 3070. Have you looked at these?
Yeah, only a little bit.
They're really impressive little boxes for the size and the price.

(25:50):
So even if, so I think for some people, they're probably exactly what you would need right now.
Like the ThinkCenter M7020Q is $205.
It has an i5-8400T, which means it's the lower power variant.
And it has eight gigs of RAM, but I'm pretty sure it goes up to 32.
Yeah, that's the key detail right there.

(26:12):
And the Optiplex.
They really are a great.
Lean, mean, again, an i5-9500T. 256 gigabyte SSD in there but you can pop it
up again I believe yeah it says right here up to 32 gigabytes of 266 megahertz DDR4,
Now, if this could take the storage, I don't know. So these little enterprise,

(26:32):
this one's, although, $550. So I don't know about that.
What about heat management? Because I know your current boxes are sort of solid state, right?
They don't have moving fans or anything like that, and you have them in a little cupboard.
So have you thought about this aspect?
Yeah, that's a good question. It does get hot in there. The Odroid H3 has survived, though.

(26:57):
The H4 might be enough for all of this.
Over in matrix uh swami comes in with a uh minis forum ms01 workstation uh what they're using.
Okay to me it feels like.
Up to 24 terabytes of ssd storage.
Like there's like this trifecta problem you know you can have speed you can

(27:19):
have power efficiency or you can have all the storage and gadgets and i'm trying
to like have all three and maybe i'm not over asking but just my initial look
here. Oh, this is really nice though.
So this is $480 US greenbacks.
And it has a 13th generation i9, 24 terabytes of SSD storage up to, PCI4.

(27:44):
My question would be is what is its idle draw?
Yeah, that was going to be my question.
See, an i9-2900H. I don't know what the power draw is on that.
It's really hard. I know this.
I've really enjoyed the yellow. It's really been a nice sweet spot here on the
power to performance ratio.
Do they have any other first-party hardware that interests you?

(28:05):
Not really. No, just the power isn't really there. They have a blue and I want
something more robust. It's fine.
But when you think about it, what I'm trying to get is I want the webpages to render faster.
I want the dashboard to render faster because when you're trying to do something
really quick, you want the best performance possible.
So now I'm trying to get to like, okay, how do I get this? And I think I'm at

(28:27):
the limits of what a CM4 can deliver me there.
But also, okay, so I have not figured out the hardware, but that's sort of the
direction I'm trending, if possible, is an N150 or a T-series chip that gets
me the performance I want.
I have no idea if there's anything in the Ryzen world that would do this.
I would love to hear about that, if anybody could boost in or send us an email with that.

(28:50):
or my other option is run multiple boxes get really crappy cheap N100s and run
a couple of those but yeah do you.
Have the budget for two?
If the price is right.
You know, just one home assistant and maybe a couple other related services that fit the domain.
If the price was right and the power draw worked out, I really can't afford to spend any more power.

(29:15):
That's the most expensive thing for me right now because the current system
is drawing a little bit more than I'd like.
I think the other thing I'm going to do is I'm going to phase out Zigbee.
I'm just going to start replacing those devices.
My next build is going to use that new fancy home assistant connect ZWA2 Z-Wave
that is really, really good. So that'll be my future plan.
I'm going to phase out Zigbee. I liked the idea behind it, but it just hasn't worked for me.

(29:36):
But I have a sense, Wes, that me kind of YOLOing and deleting adapters and then
replicating Home Assistant OS in a VM on a new box, I don't know.
I just have a feeling maybe not how you would do it.
So how would you fix it right, Dr. Wes?
Oh, I don't know if you could really call it fixing it right,
but have you ever considered your old pal NixOS?

(29:59):
Oh, why am I not surprised? Brent, are you surprised?
I saw this coming from a mile away.
You know, actually, I might have a better time on the sales pitch too,
Brent, because he started out new.
Yeah.
And I think probably the main difficulty for you is you just have a lot of functionality
that you don't want to give up and you would need to port.
A lot of add-ons.

(30:20):
Right.
Little silly things like UI tweaks and new cards and new ways to graph things
that come into the add-on store and whatnot.
Although maybe it's possible to add the add-on store through Nix. I have no idea.
No, I don't think so. They don't explicitly support it, at least with the module.
I mean, you could do it on your own, because I think the add-ons are mostly talker containers.
Yes, exactly.
So you could run those. Or, like, what I'm doing is a lot of them just have

(30:44):
NixOS modules for what you're running, right?
So, like, music assistant, instead of an add-on, it's just another service that I run at the NixOS.
And it's just in a different tab, yeah.
Yeah.
So there are some changes that you have to get used to. We started looking into
this a little bit because I am currently running it this way.
And I thought it'd be interesting to kind of look and see some of the things
like that, you know, does it have enough of the stuff that you might need?

(31:07):
It is kind of great because they do support, I mean, I think they say they have
something like, they support like 90 plus percent of like the built-in stuff. A lot of it's Python.
So anything that has, you know, if they have the dependency package for that,
it makes it very easy to get that added to your setup.
And so you can add any of the sort of extra components that you might want,

(31:28):
but also you can do custom components and they support the custom Lovelace modules as well.
And so you just sort of add all of the ones that you want into your config,
right? There's services.homeassistant.
So like I added, checking out stuff, you were using Mushroom,
ClockWeatherCard, MiniGraphCard, LG WebOS Remote Control.
I mean, I'm not going to use like, because I don't have a WebOS TV at the moment,

(31:49):
but just to see, you know.
and then you rebuild and that's it i mean you still got to go in and you know
customize it i think there's ways to do even more stuff declaratively but for
the most part i've just used it to get like all the dependencies and the core
stuff set up and running and then i can go from there.
Have you gone through an update cycle or so with home assistant.
Yeah it's been going for more than a couple of months yeah

(32:12):
i think at one point with esp home i disabled it for one update
cycle i wasn't doing anything with it at the moment anyway so
it was it was pretty easy and i could have pinned it if i if i'd
cared to but that hasn't been a problem since it is
um the way i have it set up i am building like home
assistant most of the updates so that does take you know 10
minutes or so depending on the power of the box you're using this is not an

(32:33):
especially powerful box but that has not had any issues at all so and i don't
really mind that because this is another box that i kind of run things i don't
need to update a ton and are more of the infrastructure layer it's also my router
more occasional updates yeah i love that you run it on your router you maniac.
Also, his router is an Xbox. Yes.
Yeah.
Which also doesn't need to do very much. And so I update it like,

(32:54):
you know, once or twice a month, basically, unless there's like a serious security thing or something.
So yeah, so in that domain, it's worked quite nicely.
So the thing, what you're saying that I do like is I like the idea of a implicitly
defined home assistant setup, because that feels a little more appliance-like,
especially at the level of dependency that I have.

(33:14):
Because what I have now is a bunch of Docker containers that are being orchestrated
by the home assistant supervisor container. And while it's been fine,
it's always been sort of like it seems like a potential area of issues.
But they actually do a great job in practice. But I like the idea of a defined
home assistant setup that's easy to replicate.
Then, you know, that would be really nice for, and I wish I would,

(33:36):
now thinking about this, I wish I would have done this years ago because I need
to redo home assistant at the studio probably next year.
I have home assistant that I'm going to redo for Hadiyah's office.
I'm going to do a second implementation there.
It'd be really nice to have all of that actually set and easy to replicate.
You know, really this came up because you were detailing to us privately some
of your struggles, right?
and I mean at first I was just laughing because you wanted robust stuff and

(33:59):
you mentioned Z-Wave JS but more realistically you mentioned that you had to
install an SSH add-on to troubleshoot that's so true because.
Everything's containers I.
Was just laughing in Nixos but no realistically there's a lot of trade-offs
and I don't know that this would really be right for you but I'd be curious
you could try it incrementally that's what I'd be curious to see I think for

(34:20):
me for minimal setups things where you can kind of adapt how you build it to
the limitations and the strengths,
that's a different domain than porting an existing maxed out,
supes tech van lifestyle.
Hundreds of devices. Yeah, totally.
Chris, do you worry about moving away from the officially supported OS way of

(34:42):
running Home Assistant and doing a build your own?
Do you worry about this I don't know, stability or supportedness of that?
No, I mean if you run it if you run Home Assistant OS in a VM,
that would be a supported configuration.
If you go out in the crazy way, the crazy, scary way that Wes is talking about,
that wouldn't necessarily be supported.

(35:04):
But that doesn't concern me either, I suppose.
Yeah, right. That's another part of the trade-off is I'm kind of giving up that
for the ability to do it the Nix way, the benefits that may or may not have for you.
And it's easier for me to hack on it a little bit that way just because now I'm a Nix guy.
All right.
But to your point, just really quick, is, right, you can also definitely,
you know, if you did want, if you already were trying to deploy it on NixOS

(35:26):
infrastructure, you could definitely run it in a VM or a container.
Yeah, right.
Just as you could on any base OS.
Before we get off this, How do you say your name in the moment?
Was it Dydriel? Dydriel? How do I say it?
Dydriel.
So you have the yellow, but you've popped a CM5 in your yellow. How's that working?
I've been running it for over a year. It's been solid. The only issue I have

(35:48):
is some smart plugs I have.
The integration is glitchy and known to have to restart it, but that's just
the integration itself. Nothing to do with the yellow itself.
Do you want to out the vendor?
Some Chinese knockoff.
Oh, okay. All right, so you're telling me, you're telling me I pop off the top,
I pop the top on the yellow, and I can just take the CM4 out,

(36:12):
and I can in a new CM5, and I'm going to get a better, faster...
Oh, but isn't the EMMC built into the...
Yeah, you back up your Home Assistant first, and then swap it out,
and then you reinstall Home Assistant, reload your config, and boom,
you're back up and running.
Have you had any problems with your Zigbee radio?

(36:34):
I'm just getting into it. My wife doesn't let me buy fun toys like that.
Go Z-Wave. That's my advice. Go Z-Wave.
Okay, well, okay. So that also could be a time buyer. And did you notice a performance
differential when you went CM5?
Because that's my other concern is I go through the effort, I pay the money,
I pop it in there, I reload the OS, and it's like a 10%, 20% improvement, which would be okay.

(37:00):
I was actually running it out of a Docker container before on a quite powerful
host that shouldn't have had any issues running it.
And by going to a standalone box, I did notice a performance improvement just
by going to standalone, letting it be dedicated.
And not.
Running my r stack next to it granted that stack is idle most of the time but still.

(37:21):
Right when it does run it's stealing from home assistant yeah okay see i got
too many choices here guys i really i think this is an area where i could really
appreciate some experience and input they're like that's a great option if that
cm5 buys me some time i think maybe what the what i should do there is uh,
regardless of what I do, put a CM5 in that thing and deploy it somewhere else, you know?

(37:45):
It sounds fun to try.
Yeah, it's still got some good life in it, I think. Huh, all right.
Well, please do boost in or go
to linuxunplugged.com slash contact and let me know how you would do it.
You know, maybe we get a poll going and the audience decides your hardware.
Oh, God.
I don't just say it.
I want to nail it right. Ideally, it's something that lasts me another seven
years, five years, you know, something I can put in that is a nice long-term. and.

(38:08):
You didn't have something to recommend to other folks.
The one really nice thing about going the prescribed home assistant
os path vm or be it on physical hardware
is the backup and restore is really top notch
and if you have a nebikasa account they also store
a version of the backup encrypted in cloud
storage so you can now you can just restore from

(38:29):
the cloud like it's a freaking iphone or android or something and restore it
right onto the hardware and get right back to where you're at so the going from
failure i got to switch to a new box to fully recovered scenario is really strong
if you go the blessed route if you'll call it that which is one thing to consider,

(38:49):
I think if you went the Nix route, like Wes is suggesting, by its very nature,
it's so replicable that if you could just restore the data, you're probably going to be fine.
Yeah, you know, copy over varlib NixWes, or Home Assistant, I mean.
You know, I mean, is it crazy to run it on the router? Because I could also, I, yes.
That was just super convenient for me when I was rebuilding my home lab.

(39:12):
I'm not trying to recommend that per se.
The router just wasn't doing anything else, so it was dedicated hardware I could use.
Well, I could see some advantages. It is one less piece of hardware.
And by router, it's mostly some NF tables rules, really.
And something about, I just love the ludicrous idea of your critical home assistant
system being on a box connected to the public internet. Like,
it's just so dumb. I love it.

(39:34):
I also, you know, there's so many meshes these days. Like, I don't have to have
any ported ports and stuff.
That's exactly how you would do it.
Uh-huh.
Unraid.net slash unplugged. Unleash your hardware with Unraid,
a powerful, easy-to-use NAS operating system for those of you that want control,
flexibility, efficiency, and you want to just take advantage of some of the

(39:56):
apps we talk about with what you have in the closet right now.
Build your ultimate rig or take advantage of that laptop sitting in the corner.
You can really unleash the hardware that you have right now.
And Unraid is cooking, my friends.
The new RC is out for version 7.20. 5,000 different Unraid members help test the RC.

(40:17):
That's awesome. They have lots of nice fixes, polish across storage,
VMs, the web GUI, and the stable is just around the corner.
Unraid goes from win to win. And
recently, they have been laser-focused on making that web UI even better.
Their community app store is bonkers. You get access to support, to the community,

(40:37):
to all of those apps, and the continuous improvements of Unraid built on top
of a modern Linux kernel, which means you get the best in virtualization,
the best in containers, and the best in file systems.
So check out Unraid and support the show. You get a 30-day free trial,
which lets you test out Unraid, no credit card required, when you go to unraid.net slash unplugged.

(40:58):
It's pretty powerful, and it just keeps getting better.
And they just recently crossed the 20-year mark. And it feels like they've got
all the steam and energy from, like, a startup.
It's really pretty impressive. Check it out. Support the show.
Unraid.net slash unplugged.
Well, we'd like to do a shout-out to new member Giovanni, who joined as a core

(41:18):
contributor. Thank you, Giovanni.
Thank you. Hope you're enjoying. I will say, last week's bootleg had some extra
road trip clips and stuff like that.
Great bootleg if you are just signing up or you haven't grabbed them yet.
Go do it. And thank you for becoming a core contributor.
Appreciate that very much. And gentlemen, we do have some boosts.

(41:42):
And Derevishan Dingus is our baller booster this week with 72,222 sets.
Oh, that's a nice one. Thank you, derivation. So sorry I missed sending my config.
I've been behind on shows, but I had to boost in my vote for more of this content.
I really enjoyed this episode and would love to participate in a second round.

(42:05):
That said, guys, for the love of God, please give Home Manager a try.
I've replaced the vast majority of my individual .files with Nix modules because of Home Manager.
It's so nice to have everything in one spot and in one format. Highly recommend.
We knew this day would come.
We've been resisting this for almost as long as we resisted Nix.
almost but uh i i just you know my my hesitation is i just feel like i'm really

(42:31):
going all in at that point but i think i already have all right we got to try
it we got to try it i need to know is there like recommended well especially.
Because we can clean up your config.
My goodness i know every time i'm
working and i'm vibing on hypervibe well not
every time but very frequently it's like okay now I
can do this with an activation script but if we

(42:52):
used home manager let's tell it to tell me
that all the time I'm sure it is uh he goes on I've been using hyperland and
nix os for years at this point and in my opinion it is a match made in heaven
hyperland has really come a long way since the early days and it has first class
nix os support the whole time I've been using it it really is cool to see some
people appreciating all the work being done over there it really does deserve the attention.

(43:15):
I feel like it made my computer fun and exciting again.
I'll plus one then. It's just enough desktop. It really has been pretty great and the combination of,
just the way I can configure it simply and the instant reloads and the way it does tile.
It just tiles very intelligently plus you can do support for some floating windows

(43:37):
if you want. I really like it.
That's all I have to say about that. And I do think it is a match made in heaven
i agree and thank you for that boost appreciate it.
Show mascot the golden dragon boosts in with a row of ducks,
Boosting in 636, love the episode, great road talk, and interview with John.

(43:58):
Oh, thank you. We had a lot of fun. And it was really great of John to be able
to join us live like that. We were really down to the wire.
And we pushed through some technical difficulties.
Pabby boosted in a row of ducks. Plus one for the config confessions.
Have to get around to cleaning up my next config sometime.
All right. I think that's a plus two so far for this.
I don't know. Three or four at least.

(44:19):
I think we're getting in the green light category, boys. that's
exciting that's really cool i wasn't sure at first it was sort of a slow start
but now we're hearing it we're hearing it um if you disagree now's the time
you can let us know but uh things are cooking things are cooking all right kiwi
bitcoin guide comes in with 5 432 sats,

(44:42):
time traveler boost i'm going back over episodes about file systems who knew
that you could customize the file system in your os wow i know things we take for granted now no.
Kidding right If you're just coming from more traditional devices.
Yeah, especially Windows and macOS. Like, not a lot of options there.
No, that does mean you kind of, you know, sometimes have to choose and debate
why to choose and which, but that's part of the fun.

(45:05):
That's true. Could you explain the difference between corporate distros like
Ubuntu and Pop! OS and community distros? Pros, cons, trade-offs, that kind of thing.
Almost an episode topic there.
Oh, yeah. It's a big thread to pull.
Well, the corporate distros generally have paid staff to maintain and develop
them and work on certain pain points, but they also have an overall corporate

(45:26):
mission that they're trying to deliver via that desktop.
Now, if you agree with that and align with that, that's probably just fine.
Community distributions can be a little bit more chaotic in their structure
and their organization, but don't necessarily have any particular enterprise
end goal or KPI that they must meet,
or a certain thing of value that they must return to the organization making it.

(45:48):
So they can be useful in that way. And I think my experience has been over the
years, just have naturally gravitated towards the community maintained distributions
overall, not for any particular criticism against Ubuntu or PopOS.
I think they're both really fantastic.
And I think the people in charge of them really have their best interest in
mind. But it just seems to be where I've naturally gravitated to over the years.

(46:09):
Yeah, and you know, kind of depends on what you're doing if you if you do
align well with what you know the corporate distros in
particular are trying to do if you could be a potential customer even
or you want support eventually things like that then you know this
can be really nice yeah and right they do have an ability to sort of set the
bar or you know pay people to work on certain things in certain areas so if
those are areas that are important to you that might be something that you appreciate

(46:30):
but the downside can be that you you know if you diverge from that they don't
always necessarily bend over backwards to support.
I mean, it's still open source often, right? And so there is a lot of community
involvement around corporate distros as well.
But you just kind of get a different experience in, you know,
the support use cases and the diversity of what people are doing with some of the community ones.

(46:52):
Maybe the best place to see this in action is the delta between Debian and Ubuntu
and Fedora and CentOS Stream and RHEL, right, where you can really see the community side.
Even though you could argue that Red Hat still is somewhat involved in Fedora,
it's very much community-led.
And you see, like, the differences is they have ButterFS on Workstation now

(47:13):
for multiple releases. That's still not in RHEL.
And so they can experiment a bit more in some cases as well.
Great question. i feel like i could talk about that for an hour love it if you
have any other questions like that kiwi please do send them in.
Chris b boosted with 5 000 cents if you're reading this my very first crypto

(47:33):
transaction was successful sent using self-hosted bitcoin lnt and boost cli
keep up the great work what that's awesome very very impressive oh that is a lot as.
A first uh.
Wow, that is crazy as a first.
That's zero to like 300.

(47:55):
Crispy, very, very impressive. And even Boost CLI. It's been ages since we've had a Boost CLI boost.
You'll find as you get into Bitcoin, some really don't like the association
of crypto and Bitcoin. There's Bitcoin and then there's everything else.
But we're here, we're much more friendly folk. And we really,
I'm impressed. Well done. Well freaking done.

(48:16):
That's eagle for you, sir. Eagle for you.
Well Kaspilin boosted in three boosts for a total of 6,300 sats,
now this is on episode 329 flat
network truthers funny nowadays kernel 5.5 pi's on 32-bit mangero bivaldi 12

(48:38):
cores all amazing i miss those times those deep dives i was looking for info
about nebula so thanks for the work Thank you.
I think, right?
Yeah.
Thank you for the support. And he's saying we should do more deep dives. And I agree on that.
Just a wee bit.
A wee bit of a deep dive. You know, or an in-depth look could be that too. A wee bit of a deep dive.

(49:02):
Yeah.
If you have deep dive, I don't know, curiosities, you send them right along
and we'll see what we can do.
I love nerding out on kernel releases.
I do kind of like, you know, the callbacks. there have been various different
eras too right if you've just been following the desktop linux world and yeah
from kernel five five yeah yeah the different versions of the pi the browser

(49:23):
war there's just been a lot there's a lot.
And there still is wes there still is and some.
Some of us haven't processed that sometimes.
It's too much wes sometimes there's too much ed broughton's here with 12 345
sets that's one two three four five,
Oh, another request for a wee bit of a deep dive.

(49:48):
I'd like to see a deep dive on AlbiHub, a peek under the hood and some explanations
of what the user-friendly UI is actually hiding from a node operator.
Maybe include some discussion on ongoing channels and the why behind the limited
number of LSPs offered through AlbiHub UI.
How does AlbiHub impact decentralization of the network? And discussions of
cloud versus self-hosted AlbiHub instances.
Great.
Ed, that's a pretty solid suggestion.

(50:09):
True, yeah.
You and I should do a Twib special or something on that.
That sounds fun.
Because I think that's probably where that would, This Week in Bitcoin is probably the place for that.
And that is a great series of questions. And there's a lot of great answers there.
Very, very, very excited about the LB Hub project.
But there is good questions. Like, why is there only so many LSPs in there?
Why don't they have more?

(50:30):
Those are great questions, Ed. And Wes and I will have a conversation about
maybe doing a special on This Week in Bitcoin for that.
Thank you for the boost. Thank you, everybody, who boosted in.
We had a good amount of you stream them sats as you listen to the show.
That's always just super cool. We'd love to see that.
Collectively, you stacked 40,807 sats. Hey, not bad.
Thank you very much, sat streamers. When you combine that with our boosters,

(50:52):
it's a humble amount. But after last week, that's kind of to be expected.
We stacked a collective 147,250 sats.
Thank you everyone who supports the show with a boost. When you boost this show,
it's split amongst the hosts and our editor Drew, as well as the podcast app
creator and the podcast index.
It's all right there in the RSS feed for anyone to see.

(51:16):
The contract itself is open source. That's really powerful.
Plus, it gives the app creator a way to monetize that doesn't require creepy
ads and tracking and stuff like that.
It's really a powerful system. So you can start with Fountain FM.
They make it really easy. You hear us talk about AlbiHub. That's a self-hosted
system that you can load up yourself and then connect to lots of different applications.

(51:36):
It's all really fun, too. It's a very educational experience.
And when you get on the boost, it really feels like you're at the next level
of interaction. You know, we're responding to you.
You're responding to us. It's really great.
And, of course, thank you to our members who said it and forget it.
We better watch. Appreciate the members as well. All right, we got two picks

(52:01):
for you before we get out of here.
And the first one is a launcher that lets you launch your apps by casting spells.
Yeah, I know how you like launchers. You're a big launcher guy.
Big launch guy.
Have you ever thought about using gestures to launch things?
You know, I've played with this for a hot moment in like Firefox, I think, and stuff.

(52:22):
like every now and then and it is really useful it sounds cheesy but if you
already have your hand on the mouse why not just do a squiggly to launch something
like your terminal really quick i don't think it takes away from having a keyboard-based
launching system like keybinds or a launcher.
No have them both.
Have them both.
No okay so then you might like hexacute uh

(52:45):
it's a go app it's a gesture based launcher for
wayland and um yeah you run on the commit you can run the command line uh ask
it to learn then you draw your gesture three times and then after that um you're
good to go so they kind of recommend you bind it to a key binding maybe or something
to when you want to trigger it then you can draw whatever gesture you want.

(53:05):
You're missing the best part,
It has a magic wand sort of almost comp is style.
Oh, yeah, right. So it turns your cursor into like a sparkly trailing magic wand.
Yeah. So that's there. But I don't know. It also does like a lighting effect.
It's pretty solid, actually.
Yeah, the UI makes it seem quite charming. And so I kind of want to start using it just for that.

(53:30):
Yeah. All right. We'll put a link to.
This might actually especially work well if you were using on something like
a touchscreen. I don't know.
Oh, of course. hexacute gpl3 okay
then let's talk about lenspect this got some
attention this week because no one's really made a
malware vulnerability scanner for linux in a while and lenspect is a modern

(53:51):
gtk based application that does just that if this is something you're concerned
about it is a lightweight security threat scanner powered by virus total virus
total is a free service for individuals. They have a paid program for businesses.
They kind of aggregate a bunch of different virus database information and then
give applications one place to sort of look at aggregate information.

(54:14):
This ties in. You go over there, create an account, get an API key.
This ties in with that. And now you can scan individual files and folders on
your system for all known malware.
And because it's using the virus total backend, it's all currently up to date,
which is nice, right? You don't even have to go like update your database.
So Lenspect. And it's interesting to see this project right this is something

(54:34):
that's been in the works for a little bit not a topic we cover a lot on the show,
But the group decided to release this as GPO-3 and use the most modern GTK elements and designs they could.
Yeah, you kind of like to see that. I mean, whether or not you are a particular
in need or a user of this kind of thing, want to get the API key and all that.

(54:56):
Some people do, and they want to do it on Linux. So if this enables that kind
of workflow to happen, great.
And they're distributing it as a flat pack, so it's pretty easy to get going.
That scanning file logo kind of looks like the Bitwarden logo,
but it's okay. Maybe it's not.
And it looks like a really nice clean app and it gives you great information
and then you can export that scan summary.

(55:18):
Could be a way to, you know, maybe say you're doing compliance.
I don't know. Or if you download something weird.
This actually- Maybe we use it every time like after Brent's at the studio and
then he's left the studio.
That's big brain. That's big brain.
Gotta get rid of the bug field, right?
You know where this would be useful is if your kids are downloading like Minecraft
mods or whatever crap it is, you could check this first, make sure there's nothing

(55:40):
weird in there and it is GPL 3 at least for the front end stuff so it's not too risky to get into it.
Yeah set up a gesture to launch it.
Set up a gesture, sure. Then you'd use Hexacute to start Lenspect.
Uh-huh.
Mm-hmm.
You're welcome.
Now, can you give them a pro tip on, you know, maybe some advanced features
that we have here in this here podcast that they might not know about?

(56:01):
Oh, yes, we do. Well, first up is the magic of cloud chapters. Yeah. Dynamic.
You just pull them down from the cloud, and suddenly you can jump around in
the episode. Jump right to the content you want, skip the stuff you don't.
We do have baked-in chapters if you don't have a podcasting 2.0 client.
Yeah, that's right.
But the nice thing about the cloud chapters is we can make corrections after the fact and stuff.

(56:23):
And then your client automatically gets the update. There's that. So that's the chapters.
But if you want more detail.
I might, Wes.
You might. We have transcripts.
Oh, really?
And a lot of clients these days, you can even play it in sync,
follow along, look at transcript as you're listening to OSIAC in your ears.
That's right. And for the clients that support it, we even have diarization

(56:43):
because we are just that fancy. And some of those, like the new podcasting apps,
they also support live streams.
So you can join us every Sunday at our regular bat time.
Yeah, join us on a Tuesday that's actually a Sunday. Sunday at 10 a.m.
Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern over at jblive.tv.
Or if you've got an IceCast streamer, plug it into jblive.fm.

(57:05):
And we're generally sending out video streams to things like YouTube and whatnot
for the live stream as well.
Links to everything we talked about today are at linuxunplugged.com.
unpludged.com, sorry, slash 637. And of course, you can send us a contact or
a boost to support the show, and our membership link is over there as well.
Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program.

(57:28):
We'll see you back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday!

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