From the Vault - Grand Canyon Cold Cases - Locations Unknown

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
M thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness.
Join us as we dive into the deep end of
the unexplainable word and try to piece together what happened.
And you are listening to Locations Unknown.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
What's up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of
Locations Unknown. I'm your co host Joey, and with me
is always as a guy who, if he owned a store,
would never charge too much for eggs.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Mike vander Bogart, Thank you, Joe, and thank you once
again to all of our loyal listeners for tuning in.
Just a couple of quick announcements here. First, you'd like
to thank a couple new Patreon supporters, Sarah Hemorrhrich and
Carl Parker. Kind of sad there's only two. If you're
listening and want to help the show out, it's probably
Sarah Helmrick Helmrick. There we go, got already starting off

(01:26):
on a good FOOTA that's a good one, Yeah, Hemorrhage.
So if also we've got a phone number you can
call the show.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, Sarah, call that number and let Mike know how
you feel about him saying your name.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hemery. If you like us, hate us have episode suggestions. Anything,
you've had a long day at the bar and just
want to talk, call two eight three nine three. Just
remember anything you say on the voicemail could and probably
will be used on a future show.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
So I think the only thing we've ever bleeped out
was like personal information.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
So I can address your phone number exactly. Yeah, everything
else is fair game. Everything else this fair game. You
can also support us on many different platforms if you
like the show and want to help us out. Obviously,
on Patreon, we have YouTube memberships, we have premium subscriptions,
on Apple, We've got a store on our website and
on Facebook where you can buy some swag. And you
know what, if you're a short on cash but you

(02:17):
still really like the show, just tell everyone you know
about the show and go to the different platforms and
like the videos and share videos with friends, and that
helps us work our way up the algorithms. Oh yeah,
that's just as valuable. Yeah, and finally, this is a
new little mini series that we're going to try out
in the future. It won't be every episode in a row,
but there's a lot of cases out there that are

(02:39):
too short to really do a full episode on but
they're still important to get the cases out there. So
from time to time we're going to do a cold
case episode on a different park. So today we're covering
a couple cases from Grand Canyon National Park, which we've
actually never done a case from you.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
You're just spoiling the beans.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yes, sorry, spilling the bean spoiling the beans. So yeah,
so from time to time we'll be doing and I
think we're calling it National Park Gold cases.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, you're just spilling all the beats, spilling.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
All the beams. We'll cut, we'll edit all that out.
We won't know, we won't. So other than that, I
don't have any other updates usual.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
No, all right, everybody, let's gear up and get out
to explore locations unknown. With over fifty two million acres,

(03:39):
the US National Park System is home to some of
the most breathtaking natural features.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
On the planet.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Tens of millions enjoy the parks every year. While most
visits end with the amazing memories, many have not. The
official NPS cold case count stands at twenty nine. However,
independent researchers estimate between eleven and sixteen hundred unsolved disappearances
originate in our parks. Join us this week as we

(04:06):
begin the mini series National Park Cold Cases. So we're

(04:30):
going to start this first series off with the Grand
Canyon National Park, which I spoiled.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yep, you spoiled that time.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
I'm just giving you a crap. I've never been here,
of you. I've flown over it.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
I have. I've seen it from the parking lot, like
near one of the highways as we were driving through.
So you like made a chance, like we got to
pull over and at least stop and look at it. Yeah.
So I've been out of a car and have stared
at it. It's really cool. So you've kind of been there.
I've been there. I've never hiked it. It looks really cool.

(05:01):
You can. I think you can do it on horseback. Yeah.
Sounds really fun and sounds terrifying.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, if you're going, if you're going up and down
the walls, yeah, no thanks, but I'm doing it.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Those horses know what they're doing there.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I bet no horses have ever fallen off, no ever.
So yeah, it's looked pretty from an airplane. Yeah, that's
I've seen it mostly when flying to Vegas. Grand Canyon
National Park is nineteen hundred and two square miles, so
it's larger than the state.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Of Rhode Island. It's big.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
It's big.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
It is in Arizona. It was established on February twenty sixth,
nineteen nineteen. This park sees roughly four point five million
visitors per year. That's the thirteenth in the country and
those are as of twenty twenty one. Habitation history in
the area people have been a part of the Grand
Canyon's history and culture. From ten thousand years ago through today.

(05:53):
Eleven contemporary tribes have cultivated links in the area. Cultural
cultural I said, no, I want to say cultivated, and
their oral histories are rich with references to the creation
of the Great Chasm and Torrential River. Some of the
tribes are the Hopi, the Navajo Nation, the Pueblo of Zuni,
and the Yavapi Apache Nation. From the sixteenth century on,

(06:14):
tribes familiar with the region were guides and informants for
the Spanish and later Euro American explorers. Let's talk about
some interesting facts. The Hopi tribe considers the Grand Canyon
a gateway to the afterlife. The tribe has always placed
great spiritual significance on the site. They believe that upon
death a person passes westward through a place of emergence

(06:36):
located upstream from the confluence of the Colorado and Little
Colorado rivers in the canyon on his or her journey
to the afterlife. Temperatures vary greatly within the canyon. From
the rim of the canyon to its lowest point, the
temperature can change from more than twenty five degrees. The
depths of the gorge are notoriously hot during the summer,
while the north rim is often below freezing in winter.

(06:57):
In nineteen oh nine, the canyon was the site of
a giant hoax. The Arizona Gazette reported that archaeologists had
discovered traces of ancient Tibetan and Egyptian civilization in an
underground tunnel into the canyon. The Smithsonian denied the entire story,
claiming that they had no knowledge of the archaeologists. To
this day, conspiracy theorists still believe this may have been

(07:19):
a government cover up.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
I had never heard of that.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
So even if there were ancient traces of people there, yeah,
they can't be Tibetan or Egyptian because they're not in
Tibet or Egypt, So they'd be Native Americans. Yeah, so
interesting little unless they're claiming like Egyptians came to the
canyon and settled. I don't know, but then they would

(07:42):
be I don't know, Egyptian Americans.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Will have to cover that on a ah.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
You know what I believe with those theorists, I think
it's a government cover up.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah all right.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Despite being the most famous, the Grand Canyon is not
actually the world's deepest canyon. Depending on how the depth
of the gorge is measured. The Arizona Landmark actually comes
behind the Coodhusi Canyon in Peru and the Kalige Ghent
Gandaki Gorge in Nepal. Ah the Kali Gandaki Gorge in Nepal.
The most dangerous animal in the canyon is actually the

(08:12):
rock squirrel. This is like, h what's that movie with
the rabbit Manty Python search with.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Hilly Grail the rabbit that I haven't seen that movie
so long When they're trying to get into the cave
and it's darted by a little white rabbit but like
lunges through the air and bites your head off. I
don't Even though the Gila monster and big horn sheep
also live there, visitors are most often bitten by the
humble squirrel. So, yes, it's by like sheer attack volume. Yeah,

(08:40):
it's by like the most bites of an animal. Okay,
they're obviously not dangerous.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, they're like, it's not killing people less. Maybe one
of them had like rabies or something just causing the
most injuries.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
No, one is completely sure about the age of the
Grand Canyon. It was long believed that the Colorado River
started carving out the candid six million years ago, but
recent studies have shown the process may have actually started
seventy million years ago.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Quite the difference.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
And I know a couple guys that think it happened
much more rapidly at the offset of the ice age.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah. I think that's interesting. I think it's out for debate. Well,
I'm sure they'll eventually settle that.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
I'm sure they won't, but I love speculating about it.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
The canyon is full of fossils, though none of them
are from dinosaurs, since the cannon layers were formed long
before dinosaurs walk the earth. It is, however, home to
fossils of ancient marine animals that date back one point
two billion years. It's home to a huge mystery, the
Grand Canyon displays a geological phenomenon known as the Great Unconformity.

(09:42):
This phenomenon refers to the fact that two hundred and
fifty million year old rock layers lied directly against one
point two billion year old rock layers.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Did you know this?

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Mic Fewer people have successfully completed a continuous length wise
hike through the Grand Canyon than have walked on the Moon.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Didn't know this before researching this case. You're supposed to
play along. And then that's assuming that we actually walked
on the Moon. Oh boy, that one. I'm not going
with that one.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I definitely believe we've been there because you can see
the landing site with telescopes.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
The air at the.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Grand Canyon is among the cleanest air in the United States.
That one is crazy to me. Yeah, because it's such
a desert arid area. I wonder why that is. I
wonder if it's like when you go in the gorge,
particulate doesn't get down there or something that, or maybe
it's just in like an area where it gets it's
so far away from people.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
It's just far away from everything. Yeah, I don't know,
I really don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
The Federal Aviation Administration or FAA exists because of the
Grand Canyon.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
This I didn't know.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
In the nineteen fifties, commercial airplanes often took detours over
the park to give passengers a look at the marvel.
In nineteen fifty six, however, two of these planes tragically collided.
The crash had no survivors. Sorry for the little giggle there,
but that makes sense, leading to the federal government creating
the FAA. Oh so they had an accident of two
people trying to check it out and crashing into each other.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
And that is you know, it's kind of interesting you
think about and going a little tangent here. Flying commercially
is so incredibly safe. Yeah, And when you go to
an airport and you go flying, you realize, like all
the procedures that you see in place and everything that's
going where six sigma quality came from, right, Yeah, But
to think before nineteen fifty six fifty six, there wasn't

(11:25):
even a body that managed it. It just it was
low planes wherever they want it. Just yeah. So I
mean it's hey, we're going there. It's at over here
first cuz Yeah, it's relatively new, and it's I always
just marvel at just how safe it is, and how
if you think about how many planes and commercial jets
are in the air at any given point, Yeah, I

(11:46):
mean tens of thousands.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Well, drinking and driving was not illegal up until the
last forty years, did you know that.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah? You could used to be able to drink with
like beer open in your car.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, like you could be actively drinking and then just
be like hey, stop it, which I mean is legal
on a boat.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
You can't be in the driver's seat, but you can
obviously have open beer in a boat least. Yeah, the
drivers could be drinking back in the day. They're just like, hey,
you're too drunk, go home.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah right, definitely not advocating for that, but it's just
crazy how quick things change and how things used to
be acceptable that are not, like randomly flying planes. Yeah,
all right, So we're gonna get into the description of
features of the Grand Cayman. Our friends over at the
COPE and Climate Classification System say that the Grand Canne
actually is five climate zones cold, semi arid, humid, continental dry, cool,

(12:32):
summer humid, continental dry, warm, summer, warm summer Mediterranean, and
hot summer Mediterranean hot.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
Was that a few summers hot? Girl, summer, Hot girl summer.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
I think you and I are going to have a
hot girl summer with some of the cool news that's
coming up there, we're gonna tease a little bit.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Hot girl Summer.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
It starts in April. That's kind of like kicking it off.
Not sure what a hot girl summer is. I don't
know either, but it sounds like it's a fun thing,
and we're gonna have a fun summer. So we're gonna
have a hot girl summer. Yeah, we're gonna have people
call people. We'll call the number and tell us if
we're using it inappropriately and if we shouldn't be.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, well I know we shouldn't be. But if it's bad.
We sound like two old guys talking. We are told
high girls, I'm almost forty.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I'm thirty seven, so I am almost a completely old guy.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
You're like ten at heart.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
I'm just we've just alienated so much of our audience
by saying hot girl summer then calling almost forty old.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
We're done for it. We're done. This is the last one.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
You're not going to hear the announcement because everyone's leaving.
So summer temperatures in the South rim at seven thousand
feet are relatively pleasant, with high temperatures generally in the
eighties and temperatures typically warming to over one hundred degrees
at the river near Phantom Ranch at twenty four hundred feet.
I'm guessing that's like that's the beginning of lowest point
in the park.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
The North Rim summer high temperatures are typically cooler than
the South Rim due to increased elevation at eight thousand feet,
with highs typically ranging in the seventies. That sounds nice.
Overnight lows can still drop near to below freezing occasionally
in the North Rim, although typically low temperatures range from
the forties and fifties at the South Rim two sixties
and seventies at Phantom Ranch. Summer thunderstorms frequently occurred during

(14:09):
July and August and early September, with the potential for
torrential rains. That would be really and frequent lightning and
sudden flash floodgs. That'd be cool to be in a
storm at the Grand Canyon, Yeah, but that's just stunning
to and not be like down in Yeah, not in
a flash flood zone, but like maybe on the Rim
camping watching it come in in your car. Yeah, or
that winter conditions on the South Room can be extreme.

(14:32):
Be prepared for snowy, icy roads and trails, and possible
road closures. Winter weather typically begins by November and becomes
well entrenched by December and January, with frequent to light
to moderate snows and increasingly cold weather. Low temperatures are
genuinely in the teens among the Rim. However, afternoon high
temperatures still average in the forties due to the amount

(14:53):
of sunshine the area receives.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
They'll get like snowstorms, then it will all melt, and
then it will happen again. The terrain the land is
semi arid and consists of raised plateaus and structural basins
typical of the southwestern United States. If anyone's flown anywhere
over there, it all looks the same.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Drainage systems have cut deeply through the rock, forming numerous
steep walled canyons. Forests are found at higher elevations, while
the lower elevations are made up of a series of
desert basins. The highest point in the park is Point
Imperial on the North Rim at eight eight hundred and
three feet. The lowest point in the park is Phantom
Ranch on the bottom of the canyon floor at twenty

(15:34):
four hundred feet. So what are the types of dangers
we see here? Besides the rock squirrel, we have big
horn sheep black bears, which are very rare. According to
National Park Service, some black bears can be found in
the conifer forests around the North Rim. Odds are you
will not see them? Yes, very rare and they're definitely
not grizzlies, No mountain lions, mule deer, Grand Canyon bats.

(15:57):
There are bison on the North Rim. There are elk,
California condors, bald eagles, six species of rattlesnake, scorpions, gila monsters,
and the treacherous rock squirrel. Tips for safely hiking the
Grand Cannon. So go ahead, oh real quickly.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
So these are tips tailored for a Grand Canyon National Park,
but these would be good tips for really hiking, hiking
in general anywhere in pro the Southwest. So jo, I
just wanted to make that point point, little posting note.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, know your abilities and choose an appropriate hike.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
This goes everywhere.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, you will be hiking at high elevation in hot,
dried desert conditions with a steep climb out at the
end of the day. Everyone who hikes in the canyon
for first time reports that it was more difficult than
they expected. Be conservative and planning your hike, yeah, especially
if your beginning is downhill. Yeah, like, oh right, this
is great. Uphill is terrible. Yeah, it's like ten times
longer than going downhill.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Yep. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think when we went to Colorado, we did a mountain.
It took us two and a half days to get
up it and four hours to get down it.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
You know what, because you're going it was so steep
in some areas, you're moving at four to six times
the pace.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
It probably took me a good four or five hiking
trips before I started getting better about how long I
thought something would take me. Yeah, by looking at a
map and like elevation gain, and because your first time,
if you're new it new to hiking, and you get
out there, you'd be like, oh, I could do five
miles and yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Think of five miles in a city on flat roads, Yeah,
versus five five miles of terrain at Alta with.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Three thousand feet of elevation gain. You got forty pounds
in your back and it's one hundred degrees out.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, well you shouldn't have forty pounds because number two
tip is be lightweight, travel as light as possible. I
always end up bringing camera equipment, which weighs the most.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, I always packed too much. I'm guilty of this one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Usually though, what we overpack is like safety related things.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, it's stuff that like the chances of happening are
super low, which I could probably not bring it, but
the one time I don't bring it, it would happen.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
And because we do this show on the Little Paranoid.
So I'm like, I guess I'll bring an extra two
pounds of this stuff that I've never used.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
I bring like more paracord than you would ever need.
I don't think I've ever actually used it. Yeah, at
least we integrate it in our stuff though. Yeah, like
I replace handles with pair of cord, YEP and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
But yeah, extra food, then i'd need an extra all
it's mostly for me.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's camera. If I bring my drone, that's a pain. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So the heaviest item in your backpack should be food
and water should be use hiking sticks.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
To take stress off your legs.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
The jury's out on that, And that's funny. That's a
contention on whether hiking poles are better or worse. I
think they're better.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
I think you're looking.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, they get in the way, but they help keep
you stable and they do keep allow your arms to
take some of the brunt instead of your knees.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I do like if I know I'm going to be
hiking on a real like ledge with a steep drop off,
I do like having one on the drop put on
the ledge slide, Yeah, to just be the extra little
guard against start losing your band. Yeah, that's just my
personal preference.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Now, I one hundred percent agree with you. Also, when
I'm hiking downhill, that's when you lose your toenails. Whenever
I hike downhill with the poles and I allow them
to take a lot of the brunt, I don't lose toenails. Yeah,
I've noticed that every time I hike downhill without a pole,
I'll lose at least a time.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
I always lose toenails whenever I do with the.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Poles, because I push them in as I go and
take to absorb the shock.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
It helps.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
So that's just one non scientific study of just me
saying when I use yeah, when I use hiking poles,
I keep my toenails. When I don't, I lose my toenails.
Wear well fitting and broken in hiking boots. That's a
huge one. If your shoes are brand new, like wear
them to work for a couple of weeks before you

(19:41):
get on a hiking trip.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Make sure you remember broken in Shay our first hiking
trip in Utah, he brought his army boots that he
had never worn before. Yeah, the biggest mistake of his life.
He had a blister the size of his foot on
the bottom of his foot from it.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
And that will ruin your trip. Ruin your trip for him.
Bring a small lightweight flashlight and the chain of batteries
and a bulb. Wear sunscreen, sunglasses and a hat. Bring
a map, compass, signal, mirror or whistle, first aid kit
and water purification tablets in case.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
You run out of water.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Keep in mind that all trash, including biodegradable needs to be.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Carried out of the canyon. Leave no trace. That means
human waste, yes, so yep.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
They usually have bags for you to deficate in that
also smell like lemons, like bags through like a dog.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah, you're walking up, they're a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Remember the ones we got when we did the top
down in Zion.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, those were those. It made it was everything smelled
like lemon when you're done. And honestly, not to get
into too much detail.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
But get into the detail I usually.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Don't when you're up at elevation. You're working that hard
and you don't usually have to go to the bathroom
that much. Yeah, like number two, at least not getting
enough calories. Yeah, your body's just using it all. Yep.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
If you can talk while you're walking, you're going the
right speed. When you huff and puff, your body is
not getting enough oxygen. Walking at a pace it allows
you to be able to walk in talk means that
your legs and body are getting the oxygen needed for
to function efficiently.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
That's an important point because you can a lot of
times the urges when you start hiking to like power
walk through the hike, but you really need to just
go at a steady pace. It's think of it as
a marathon, not a sprint. If you plan right, you
should have enough time to get in and out. Yeah,
and not rush it. Take a break and avoid hiking
between ten am and four pm. That's a big window.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Even if you are eating and draining correctly, you still
need to avoid hiking in direct sunlight during the hottest
part of the day. Sun temperatures are fifteen to twenty
degrees hotter than posted shade temperatures. And keep in mind
the farther into the canyon to.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Go, the hotter it gets.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Watch out for the four hs heat exhaustion, heat stroke,
water intoxication, hypo.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Hot, tremia, high no tremia. So I'm gonna look that up.
I don't have the Oh, I don't have a voice
mailed up. I may have spelled it wrong. I think,
as it's gotta be some hyponatremia. I missed the pay
like you just look it up and see, because otherwise
I'm gonna see if the computer can say this one,
because that'll be really funny. I bet it is hypo,

(22:07):
but essentially what that's saying hYP Yeah, it even corrected
it when I put it in wrong. It's not something
I've typically worried about. But you can in a desert
environment think like, all right, I'm gonna over drink water
to prepare for this, and you can actually hurt yourself
by drinking too much water. You know, a given point.
It's like that the whe the hold your whee to

(22:29):
win a wee. Lady who died. Oh yeah, she from
trying to win a Nintendo Wi.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, drink as much water as you can and don't
pee for a while. And she actually diluted her body
so much of nutrients that it ended up killing her.
It dilutes like the salt in your body. So you
actually bringing along those packets are good hydration packets they
put in your water. Those are very good Gatorade powder
mix Yeah, any of the powder mixes.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
That have what are those called electrolytes.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Electrolytes, That's what I'm looking for.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Hey, watch your time.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Plan on taking twice as long to hike up as
it took to hike down. And I would even say
even more than that. If you're newer, it's longer than
twice as long. If you know what you're doing and
your pretty fit, it can be twice as long and
a little less. Allow a third of your time to
descend and two thirds of your time to us send
as a courtesy, give uphill hikers the right of way.
Bring a small lightweight flashlight in case you end up

(23:19):
hiking in the dark. Mules have the right of way. Yeah,
so if there's a mule, get out of the way,
and they might make you go cliff side. Yeah, because
they don't want their mules to go cliff side because
they freak out and jump off the cliff.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
So that's gotta be careful.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Overall difficulty according to all Trails, Grand can Nation Park
has suitable skill levels for everybody, with thirty seven trails listed.
Thirty listed is, thirty seven trails listed as easy, thirty
listed is moderate, and sixty six listed as hard, so
there is a trail for all types of people. The
easiest trail is the Point one mile, while Halla Overlook

(23:55):
a trail that is kid friendly and wheelchair Accessible's probably
right off the parking lot.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
The heart trail is the Nancoweep Trail. This is how
the NPS describes the most difficult named trail in the park.
With eleven miles of exposure and a trail that comes
within inches of hundreds of feet plunges, Nancoweep tests the
metal and skills of backcountry hikers. It has the highest

(24:19):
drop of all the rim to rim trails at five
six and forty vertical feet and is suicidal to attempt.
In the searing summer months, Nancoweep is unmarked, and route
finding skills often come into play. It's rare to see
anyone else on the trail. Cell phones don't work, GPS
units are often blocked by the canny walls, and help

(24:40):
isn't available.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
So that's how the National Park Service describes the trail.
So do not it's to go on the Nancoweep trail.
If it's just say that first time hiking.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
And baby, just don't do it at all. There's lots
of other rim to rim hikes that won't kill you.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, that's a pretty good description of Grand Canyon National Park.
I'm going to jump right into our three cases here,
and I wanted to because two of these cases discuss suicide.
We know we haven't really done this before, but I
just want to make just a note here for anyone
because a lot of people do listen to the show now,
so if anyone, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Say right before the one that you're gonna do, that
covers it so they can skip if they want.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, the next well, the first one doesn't have to
deal with suicide, but this last two potentially could We
don't know. Okay, So if you or anyone you know
is in a suicidal crisis or emotional distress, you can
dial nine to eight eight on your phone. That calls
the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, or visit nine eight
eight lifeline dot org. They staff it with people twenty

(25:44):
four hours a day, seven days a week in the US.
They're not a sponsor of the show. We're just putting
that up there just because you put in the notes. Yeah,
a lot of these cases we talk about theories, and
mental health comes up a lot. I don't know that
it's necessarily a fury and the cause for a lot
of these, but it comes up. And there's definitely a

(26:04):
mental health crisis across the country. So if anyone listening
needs help, you call that number on your phone, free
of charge. So with that said, we are going to
jump right into our first case, and this case it's
a gentleman. Well is a child named Justin Richardson. Date
of birth was June sixth, nineteen eighty eight. He went
missing July tewod two thousand and one in it's technically

(26:29):
not the Grand Canyon. He went missing in the National Forest,
which is just south, but I included it in the
Grand Canyon case. He has never been found nor remains found.
He was male, aged thirteen, height was four feet ten inches,
weighed one hundred pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, and he
was last seen in a red Chicago Bulls basketball jersey

(26:50):
and Denham shorts. His nickname was Little Man and at
the time of his disappearance his hair was shaved on
the sides and long and the top. So this is
an interesting case. It starts out June twenty ninth of
two thousand and one. Justin was last seen in the
area of the National Forest with three friends who were

(27:11):
between the ages of eighteen and twenty one. The group
of four had gone to the area to allegedly party
in the woods, where they were to attain methamphetamine and
get high. Other sources indicate that they had already been
partying when they went to the woods, but it is
widely he's thirteen, thirteen and like they're looking for meth Yeah, jeez,

(27:32):
so that's insane. Yeah, that's so young. So it's not sure.
They're not sure if they went into the woods party
or already been partying, but it's widely agreed that they
were under the influence of meth and most likely alcohol.
At the time. Justin lived with his father in I'm
gonna butcher. This town name Tucsion. I don't know if

(27:52):
you Tucson. No, it's t Usa y An. It's a
small town located just two miles from the south end
sentrance to Grand Canyon National Park. So justin and let's see,
Joe's going to look it up here if you're watching
on YouTube, that's what Joe is doing on Arizona to Sion,
not Tucson to Sion. So it's very close to the park.

(28:18):
There's Kebab National Forest.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, yeah, so that's the forest there. See there's the
National park sign.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah, I love that's on Google. So that's like right
at the entrance to the park. It seems like, yeah, okay,
I mean that's that's why I included. It's technically not
this one's not link. The airport is bigger than the
entire town. Look at that.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
This is the town. Yeah, the runway is four times
larger than the town.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah. They said the town had a population like five
hundred people, so small.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
It seems like it's that must be a range outside
of what I'm seeing here, because yeah, unless it's a commune.
Oh yeah, there's like, yeah, thirty buildings. Not much there,
Holy cow. So I guess that's why they're doing drugs.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
I don't know. But so Justin and his three friends
became separated while they were in the woods, and two
of the friends got lost. Justin and another friend went
back to the town therefrom and asked another friend to
help look for the missing pair. In the meantime, the
two missing friends were located by Grand Canyon Railway employees
just south of town, but Justin was not aware of this.

(29:20):
Justin and another of his friends returned to the National
forest at a spot five miles from town and fifteen
miles from where the previously lost friends had been found earlier.
There's really no indication of the timeline of these events,
but his friend, I guess, fell asleep at nine am
and he woke up at around five pm, and Justin

(29:42):
was gone. When his friend awoke and could not find Justin,
he hiked out of the area to a dirt road
and hitched a ride back to town. None of the
men with Justin reported Justin missing. Justin was reported missing
by his father on July first of two thousand and
one and has not been from since. Justin did have

(30:03):
a history of running away from home before, and at
the time, investigators believed it was possible he had hitched
a ride out of the woods to try to run
away again, and he supposedly he supposedly knew the woods
very well. So by the time he had been missing
two weeks, an extensive search party at that was about

(30:24):
one hundred and fifty strong began sweeping the area of
the forest where Justin was last seen. They had helicopters
search dogs both on foot and vehicles. After interviewing the
men with Justin the day he disappeared, authorities at the
time ruled out foul play, although they continued to track
the persons of interest in the case for more than
fifteen years, which is interesting. So now fast forward to

(30:46):
twenty fourteen. There is like nothing around this town.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
It's desolate, Like this is it and there's nothing. Yeah,
this is the next major road.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah it's a freeway. How far away that is? Yeah, desolate,
like I said. Fast forwarding to twenty fourteen. Now, investigators
stated that there was new evidence that Justin May had
returned to the area of the now closed Moikwi Lodge,
In probably said all that wrong. In an interview with

(31:19):
Joe Summer, a volunteer for the county Sheriff's office also
a retired criminal investigator for the National Park Service, he
said he did not want to share too many details
due to the case still being open. Summer stated, there's
been no sightings, no calls, nothing to indicate he's living
somewhere else right now, there's no evidence he's still alive,
and he's not considered a runaway at this time.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
What Google says, So, I think we got it right, Yeah,
all right.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Investigators do believe now that foul play is possible in
Justin's case, and feories he could have been killed in
the forest shortly after his disappearance. When asked if he
thinks somebody knows where Justin is, Summer said, I think so.
Some people, assumably the older friends Justin, have been reinterviewed
in the case. An initial suspect in the case, one
of those partaking in meth with meth use with Justin,

(32:10):
is now dead beaten the death in what appeared to
be a case of mistake and identity, Captain Terry Lawson
who worked the case at the time, pointed out that
it would have been very difficult for Justin to become
lost for very long. He had been in the area
several times before and had knowledge of the terrain. Helicopters
constantly crisscross the skies above the area, Lawson said at

(32:31):
the time. Lawson said at the time, and Justin would
have known he could follow them back to Tuccion. Lawson
also said there were numerous landmarks in the area, and
a local resident like Justin would have known where fences,
power lines, dirt roads would have been, as well as
railroad tracks. So law enforcement things few passed out from

(32:52):
drug use and then woke up, he would have been
able to find his way back.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
So I've never done meth, but is it possible even
if you know what you're doing normally on meth, he
could have just well, all the videos and people I
see on that drug like completely out of the room.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
I have a list of short term and long term
effects of metheus. I'll get into that and then we'll
go into theories. Oh right, then, just a couple other
notes on this case. A couple sources stated that Justin
had a girlfriend in Chicago, and they theorized that maybe
he left on his own accord that's very shady, and
went to Chicago. Someone from Chicago. Yeah, not to be trusted.

(33:27):
And he's thirteen. That's what makes us all just weird.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
So he's thirteen, had a girlfriend in Chicago, and he's
from a town of five hundred people. Yeah, And they
said that maybe he was catfished, or I'm thinking he
was cat but we don't. This is just speculation.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
And then they said other theories on top of the
effects of drugs midsommer and that part of Arizona can
be extremely hellish. The train around there is especially rugged.
It definitely is still possible that he fell victim to
the elements and his body is hidden away somewhere or
his friends were a part of it. So for we
get into theories, here's because obviously I've never done meth.
You've never done meth. Yep, I don't know anyone that's

(34:02):
done meths, So I've never really spent a lot of
time thinking about it. I don't think I know anyone
that's no. But it's a pretty pretty hard drug. Based
on the based on the videos of s. Yeah, based
on the short term and long term effects. So these
are the short term effects that can happen just from
using meth a few times. Hyper excitability, dilated pupils, bizarre behavior,

(34:25):
increased body temperature, erratic heartbeat, extreme irribility, sustain periods without sleep,
loss of appetite, weight loss, nausea, vomiting, panic, psychosis, and
violent behavior. Sounds like a baby on sugar, Yeah kind of,
I guess. And these are the long term effects for
people that have used meth for a long period of time.

(34:45):
Extreme weight loss, serious stental problems also known as meth mouth,
decreased motor skills, impaired brain function, easily distracted memory loss,
skin sores, violent neurotic behavior, dramatic mood swings, hallucinations, paranoias, psychosis,
cardiovascular damage, and structural changes to the brain. Jumping right
into theories, if he's hanging out with older guys that

(35:08):
have been using math for many years, I could easily
see one of them just going crazy and killing him. Yeah,
and then they hide the body. Yeah. I think either
that or he had a medical emergency and oh like overdose,
and then they got rid of the body that or
overdosed in an area that they just weren't able to
find him. Yeah. I took a nap and I woke

(35:30):
up and he was gone.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, it's very convenient, and it's a small town where
maybe they're all troublemakers.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
They're just like, well, you could see a medical emergency
if it's that hot and he's dehydrated from doing drugs
for a whole day. Yeah, like your heart would just
give out. Yeah, and maybe the dehydration caused him to,
like we always say, didn't think clearly, yep, wandering around.
Maybe he injured himself. And I think we don't know
the character of the other people he was with, but

(35:57):
I think law enforcement are using so there's one indicator
of the character that he pleads with. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
So a little kid doing drugs at thirteen, Yeah, that's
the character that people were talking about.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
That's a good point. Yeah, they're zero character, zero negative character.
If that's possible, it is possible.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
It's if you're an adult or an older kid and
you are giving meth to a new teenager.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
You're a piece of trash and you've zero negative character.
It's bad enough if you're doing meth with other people,
but if you're giving it to a child, Yeah, that's
a new kind of scumbag. Yep, just pure garbage. I
think in this one, I agree with law enforcement that
probably foul play had something to do with it, because
psychosis that means you went crazy. Yeah, so he could

(36:43):
someone could have hallucinated and saw like a creature coming
at him and threw a rock at his head and
then came to and like, oh crap, what do we do? Yeah,
and you're still not going to be thinking cluey. So
I think sadly foul play came into this one. No,
I'm gonna agree with you on that, and I think
it sounds like faul play, all right. Moving on to
our next case. The gentleman of this case is Drake Kramer.

(37:07):
He was born in September thirtieth of nineteen ninety three.
He went missing on January thirty first of twenty fifteen.
He has not been found. His remains have not been found.
He was male, age twenty one. He was five foot
six to five foot eight, one hundred and thirty five
to one hundred and forty five pounds, brown hair, blue eyes.

(37:28):
He was last seen in a gray green sweatshirt, blue jeans,
a dark colored bandana or a dark colored baseball cap
with a pattern and a black Adidas shoes. His father
described him as a frugal, hard worker and a good
student who loved nature medical issues. It was noted in
all the case research I did that he may have

(37:49):
been suicidal at the time of his disappearance. Did they
explain why? They did not? Okay, and the family was, well,
we'll get into that. But family didn't see it coming.
So he he's from He was from San Antonio, Texas.
He was enrolled at the University of Texas studying geology,
and at the time of his disappearance he worked at
a local lows According to family, he was very experienced

(38:12):
in the outdoors. According to his father, I obviously experiencing
the outdoors I think is like wisdom, it comes with time. Yeah,
I don't know how experienced a twenty one year old
could be at it, I think, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
I mean I had been seriously hiking and camping for
five years and I was not experienced at twenty.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
One, So I mean whatever, I was just thinking of
that experience. I think experience comes from doing and how
much hiking are you able to do? Making little mistakes
and learning? Yeah, getting lost right out of water, stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
All the things we tell you not to do is
because we've probably done that, yeah, experience in this location.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
We're unsure on the specific location he was at, but
he had visited the parks several times in the past,
so he knew Grand Canyon National Park. I mean it's huge,
So who knows to what extent. So story starts January
thirty first, twenty fifteen for range here to Sunday, February
first of twenty fifteen. After a one night stay at

(39:13):
the National Parks Bright Angel Lodge, Kreamer checked out February
first and was reported missing the next day by a
family member. According to a statement from National Park Service,
the family was surprised he had driven to California first
and then onto the Canyon. The last they saw him
was on January twenty ninth, when they went to see

(39:33):
the film American a Sniper. And his family reported that
he was in good spirits, and they also said it
was very unlike him to travel to places like the
Grand Canyon alone, but he had been to the area
two or three times before. However, like we said earlier,
they claimed he was a very experienced outdoorsman. So you're
looking at Bright Angel Lodge.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, it's right on the rim. That's probably beautiful. I'm
gonna look up some pictures.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
It's the South Room, right, I believe, So I believe
it's the South Room.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
It's on the south both side, so yeah, yeah, there
you go. Yeah, north is that way, so assume it is.
It's now February second of twenty fifteen, a Monday.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Some pictures out there. This is the day he was
reported missing. So on Monday, a series of concerning text
messages were sent to the family, which included one where
Kramer wrote loved everybody and said he had to give
his body to Mother Earth. This is what his father said.
The family was surprised by the text. He wrote that

(40:30):
on a note or a tech text message. Oh jeez,
I can't imagine getting that text as a parent. Yeah. So,
the missing missing person's report sparked a hasty search in
the park's heavily traveled South Room tourist area, where a
thirties found Kramer's car at the lodge where he had
stayed since that time. Sadlowski, which is a spokesperson for

(40:51):
the park, said park personnel have scoured dozens of miles
along the rim and wooded areas, repelled over the edge
and enlisted a helicopter for aerial supervision. He goes on
as she goes on to say, as of late yesterday
afternoon and early evening, after six days of very intensive
searching along the South Rim, the decision was made to
move from what we call a very active search to

(41:13):
a very limited continuous search. She goes on to say,
we no longer have teams out on the Rim working
in a methodical system cruise. When they're on the area
will continue to search, but it will not be the
same search effort that was that previously occurred for the
past six days. And this is if this is the
first episode you've listened to our show, This is very
common in searches. At some point they have to cut

(41:35):
it back. Yeah, but they will continue to do training
exercises in areas where people have gone missing.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, they know where all the people did go, so
they always know how to keep a lookout for that
type of stuff.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
That looks like a really cool lodge. Yeah, I would
totally go to this. Yeah, that's really awesome. That's cool.
So this spokesperson continues to say, while the weather with
daytime temperatures in the sixties has been good. The terrain
being searched, she adds, the train being searched flat on
top of the rim, but rocking, unstable, just stuff. The
ridge can be challenging. There's trees down there, there's shrubs,

(42:09):
there's rocks. The canyon walls are often shaded depending on
the time of day. It's just a real mix of
train which does not which does make it difficult to
work in. It's unknown what Kramer was wearing when last scene.
I know we had a description, but they're not sure
on what he was wearing. Asked if there's any report
he might have left the park. The park officials had

(42:31):
no additional information on what if he was in the park.
All they know is his car was found there. The
biggest question on this case is was the text foreshadowing
suicide or did he just text a lot of times
when we go hike and be like I can't wait
to get off the grid for a week.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, but reread the text again and that is like confirmed,
That's exactly what the text was, word for word.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Yeah, his father confirmed it. He said he loved everybody
and wanted to give his body back to Mother Earth.
That sounds like what we think it might be.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
And yeah, I could I could imagine if I got
that text as a parent, I would probably freak out
and think of every other thing it probably could be.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
It's got to be in context if you're if the
that person talks like that all the time, like that
wouldn't be surprising if they're into the I don't know
what I'm trying to say here, but and I know.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
We've talked about this in other episodes of suicide, but
the big thing that we always say, and it's from
what I've heard and just even working in the fire
department and the ambulance is the people who actually do
it never show signs of it. Yeah, and that's not
all the time, but it's like most of the time.
That's like a common theme is if there's someone actively
showing signs that's a cry for help.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
And the people who go and commit almost I always
hear it's like we had no idea, we didn't know,
we didn't know, But they end up they follow a
pattern where they'll give away personal belongings or they'll leave
a note like they always like.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
That text that me because the family was like we
just saw American sniper. He was in good spirits. They
had no idea like he was potentially suicidal. Yeah, oh
that's terrible. Obviously, I think the theory in this one,
and this is what everyone everything I read was, even
the Park Services basically thinks it was a suicide. I

(44:20):
I as soon as you said the text that, I'm like, okay, yeah,
that to me is the note. That's his note. Another
that's very sad, sad story. Hopefully, even though it was
a suicide, hopefully someday the family will get closure and
his remains will be found. Yeah, we always hope for that.
In these cases. It's not the great outcome, but it's
better than better than just just not knowing not knowing,
because at least if the remains are found, they know

(44:41):
it's done. Yep. If no remains are found, you're back
your head. You're always kind of wondering. As a parent alive. Yeah,
it's I've been irrational about my kids. So it's very
easy for us. Not related to the GOL.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
It's clearly this, but it's like a father or mother
that's dealing with it, you like you'd almost always have
to keep the hope out.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
That it's not that and you might find sadly, if
the rains are found, they might be able to do
some kind of forensic analysis and determine maybe it wasn't
a suicide, which it sounds terrible to say, but at
the end of the day, you just want to closure. Sure,
I don't want to dig myself into a whole year.
Don't do that. Moving on to our final case.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
People who want us to get to the point on
cases are gonna love the series, I know, all right,
Like you did three of them in like twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
But then the people that say we spend too much
time talking about location aren't gonna hate it because it
was like thirty minutes.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, well that was the same length, but we nailed.
We did a location one time for three case.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Three cases. Are they're eating more efficient yep? Or extending
a olive branch? Yeah, to the it's too long, but
I keep listening. Yeah, it's for the tiktac generation.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Now we're gonna get in trouble for taking time to
talk about it.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
I know, all right. Third case, So this gentleman's name
is Morgenheimer, twenty two years old. He went missing on
June second of twenty fifteen, so same year, no remains
have been found. He was male. He was six feet tall,
one hundred and seventy five pounds. He had blonde hair,
blue eyes. He was last seen wearing a maroon Nike hat,

(46:09):
blue plaid long sleeve shirt, bright colored shorts, and a
dark colored astro PFD which, for those of you are
not boaters, that's a personal floatation device otherwise known as
a life jacket. All right. He was a professionally trained
river guide working for the Tour West Rafting Company. He
was from Cody, Wyoming, and he was enrolled in the

(46:31):
University of Wyoming studying English. He was an very experienced
outdoorsman and river guide and was an excellent swimmer and
experienced in this location extensive because he was professionally trained
river guide for this area. So this case starts off
on Tuesday, June second, at twenty fifteen four pm. Morgan

(46:55):
was last seen at approximately four pm around river mile
two thirteen near Pumpkins Springs in Grand Canyon National Park.
Morgan said something to the lead guide about taking some
time off that afternoon. The lead guide walked away from
the cliff to talk to a client, and when you
look back Morgan was gone. So it's another one of those.

(47:16):
We've covered several cases now where allegedly the last person
to see him was right next to the person, looked
away for a second and then they're gone. Yeah that's crazy.
So lost my spot here. Apologize looking at the screen,
that's why.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
Yeah, I'm just pulling up Pumpkin Springs because I'm trying
to get an idea of where it is.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
So Pumpkin Springs is right there. Yeah, and can you
look up river mile two thirteen? I tried, that's not yeah,
So do you see like a cliff or anything like overlooking?

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Well, it says it's near Pumpkin Springs, Grand Canon?

Speaker 3 (47:52):
What is what river is? That? Is that a river?
It's got to be ado. This is not not a
river Rio Grand Rio Grand? Are there any other rivers
nearby there? I mean, yeah, well I was just trying
to figure out which river they were on. Yeah, I'll
keep looking. I'll let you know if I find it.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Okay, it went pretty far because Grand Can National Park
is there, so I might be in the rom Pumpkin Springs.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Yeah, it's in Grand Canyon National Park? Are you?

Speaker 2 (48:22):
This is Apache National Force That's why because Grand Can
National Parks up here, so there might be like a
that's a hot spring in Arizona.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
So I don't I don't know. Well, I'll look it up.
Either way, you keep going, I'll figure it out. The
guide one of the other guides was standing on the
cliff right next to Morgan and went to go talk
to a customer and when he came back, was gone
and never seen again. Another friend, a friend recalled that

(48:50):
now this contradicts the official statement from MPs, So I
don't know how much stock we're going to put in this.
But this was a friend of Morgan's who said this.
A member of the group remembers him stand next to
the party during a campfire. In the next minute he
was gone. So the group was on a sixth was
on day six of an eight day trip, so Tuesday,

(49:10):
June second, now twenty fifteen. He was a party missing
at seven twenty six pm on the same day by
a member of the river trip, following a swim in
the river by the group after he failed to turn
up for dinner. Searchers said at the time he definitely
has the skills and ability to form the job and
be a person. We have a high likelihood to find

(49:31):
Oh you found.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Well, is this what was his guide company? Because I
just pulled for West Okay, so this is not the
same one. But this is mile two thirteen. They said
it's a great place for cliff diving.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Okay, yes, swimming. Some of the comments online talked about
the spot that Morgan was last seen is a popular
spot for people to cliff dive. Yes, it's spring water. Okay,
I'll keep trying to find it here. Okay. So searchers
at the time thought they had a high likelihood of
finding him just because of his skill. So it is

(50:02):
now June fifth of twenty fifteen, and the search mission
from by the MPs was ongoing. Park rangers and search
and rescue teams extensively searched the river between miles two
eleven and two twenty five and on land, stretching from
river mile two eleven to fifteen around Pumpkin Springs. They

(50:22):
then extended the search area to Diamond Creek, twelve miles
west of Pumpkin Springs. Fellow employees of the Tour West
Guide Service, clients on the river, and other river outfitters
and their clients were interviewed. Now it's June eighth of
twenty fifteen, we have a statement from the MPs. They wrote,
with no additional clues to guide search efforts on land

(50:45):
or water. The search will be scaled back to a
continuous but limited mode in which rangers and pilots will
continue to search for clues when in the area. In addition,
flyers with Morgan's picture and description remained posted at various
South Rim location and all launching river trips will be
briefed on searching for him. Just some additional notes. The

(51:06):
FBI and Park Service interviewed his family, friends, and acquaintances
for any information about his disappearance and well being. He
checked out as a mentally healthy individual in the opinion
of the investigators. So interesting.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
All right, So I haven't found Dimon Creek, but here's
Diamond or Pumpkins Springs.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
But here's Diamond Creek.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
It says twelve miles west, so that's right here. Okay,
So that was a different Pumpkin Springs because that was
like down here.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Yeah, so it's around this area. Yeah, it's gotta be
a near a river somewhere. Yeah. Right, this is right here.
This is the river, Okay, this is in the canyon. Yeah.
So yeah, that other place is a different punk. So
so basically, this guy was standing they stopped for the day.
It's in the afternoon. He was standing on a cliff

(51:55):
overlooking the river, talking to one of the other guides,
and there was no indication that he was in any
kind of mental distress. The FBI and Park Service investigators
interview to everyone from his family and life and came
to conclusion. Obviously this isn't ironclad, but came to the
conclusion that he was mentally sound and not someone who

(52:18):
would be suspected of suicide. What happened to Morgan? Despite
the extensive six day search, he was never seen again
and no evidence was ever found. And he's saying it
was the Colorado River that he was on.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, here's Colorado River, so you find it was, yeah,
right this area of Diamond Creek Beach, so yeah, it's
like right around here.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Did he accidentally fall into the river? Was he drowned
and caught? But a strainer point. Did he commit suicide?
Did he was wearing the life jacket? Yeah, when he
was last seen he had the life jacket on. Interesting,
which and someone online and said, the Colorado River at
this section doesn't move very fast, So if someone fell in,
it's not like a you would be like just swept away.

(53:01):
You would like slowly float down the river. Okay, based
on this comment, I have not been there in person,
so I can't verify that, but I'm assuming if it's
an area where people cliff dive, it's probably a pretty
slow moving current. Yeah, you're not gonna be jumping into rapids. Yeah.
Did he suffer a sudden medical emergency and fall off
the cliff? He've been working all day? It's hot. Did

(53:23):
he have a heat stroke? Was he dehydrated? Possibility? Did
he have an accident? Was he taken a pee to
be blunt? Yeah, and slipped and fell or fell in,
had a head injury yeah, and then fell into the water. Yeah,
like that knocked him out. So I think what makes
this last case so strange is it's another one of

(53:44):
those where someone was right next to him, looked away
for a few minutes, and then he was gone. I
think what is less mysterious is that he was on
a cliff overlooking a river.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
So so did I talk about what happened when we
were up in Aposto Islands on the show? I had
an experience where that kind of happened. Oh really, Yeah,
I was with my family. We were up in the
Apostle Islands area Post Island State Park and we were
oh no, in Wisconsin.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Wisconsin.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, remember we went camping with jack Did you come
with us?

Speaker 3 (54:22):
When we all got there?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Okay, it's a long drive. But we went to the
state park and there's this area called the Eagles Nest.
It's a big rock out cropping where you can go
jump off into the lake. So we had planned on
all me and my kids. We had life jackets go
Pastoor County.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Oh yeah, it's the top. Okay, I've been up there,
but not camping.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, we were there and we were coming up and
the water was crazy treacherous, so we're like, okay, we
can't swim in this. There was a dad and a
son that were swimming in it, okay, and right as
we walked up, the dad had just climbed out. And
then we didn't notice at first because we're just you know,
when you go into rock out croppings, it's wave it's
just cool to look at the water and stuff. And

(55:02):
you know, we spent half time keeping our kids away
from the edge for obvious reasons, and I saw the
guy jump off, and then we were just walking around
and then some lady who was there too came up
and was like, he hasn't come up yet, and he
jumped just.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Like he jumped off ready to go swimming.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Oh, and then he climbed up and he was jumping
off again and he didn't come up. He did not
come up, and so I got my kids like away, yeah,
and he had a son who was older, like fifteen sixteen,
was there in like a thousand yards stair like not
processing it. But we ended up getting the fire department.
Everything never found him. That took three days to find

(55:38):
his body.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Oh wow, and like it was right there.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
So what I was doing is I got my kids
out of there, had my son run to the front
to alert the authorities because we didn't sell signal, and
I was just looking around to see like we knew
exactly where he went and it was super wavy, could
not find the fire department came in, no up and
down the shore. Everything just in in instant yeah, and
like I'd watch him jump in and was walking around

(56:03):
and this other lady saw it. So it totally can
happen that quick, and it like it is almost jarring.
How it's just like, oh wow, he was just there
and you can't process it. So it could have been
I theorized on that one because the waves were hitting
the rock so hard. If he jumped in and hit
his head and got knocked out yep, and the waves
are so tumultuous, it like could keep you under from

(56:23):
the force. So if he hit his head and went
under and got like you said, caught a strainer point
and anything like, it.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Could just be that. But he had a life jacket on.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Yeah, I mean, if you floated downstream, maybe it's slow,
no one sees you, you're gone, then you hit white water,
you could get trapped underneath.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
I mean he was more Texas or something like. He
wasn't reported So say he fell into the river at
four roughly four, he wasn't reported missing until eight. So
four hours of floating down the river. Yeah, going to
areas that are rapid, the question is there, you know,
how quick is the current? Like how many miles would
you float down the river in four hours? And you

(57:03):
would think that search and rescue would know that, So
I'm I would assume when they said they searched a
mild marker two twenty five on the river. They know
how fast the current is. Yeah, they're not just randomly,
They're not just picking a mile marker. They probably all, right,
this amount of time has passed, let's search this far
down the river. But maybe he took his life jacket

(57:27):
off before it jumped. Maybe, yeah, like they like mell
with it. And then the life jacket floated away from
him down the road. If it wasn't maybe yeah, maybe
had unbuckled, or maybe he had just taken it off,
like I'm done for the day, I'm taking it off.
And then he went to go to the bathroom and
slipped and fell in him and the life jacket fall in.
But then he's not wearing it. Yeah, and then he gets.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
So this is I mean, it doesn't show much. That
is not whitewater. No, this is where people jump off
and swim.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
Yeah. So that kind of right where he would have
been standing.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, so that's like not a swift current at all.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
Now.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Granted, if it's raining or whatever, can I'm sure it can.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Change speeds, but like you.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Said, if it's a place where people jump off and
go swimming, yeah, it's probably usually.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Not a strong current in that location. My guess is
I'm gonna rule out suicide only because his the investigators
didn't think obviously it's still a possibility. But I think
what maybe happened is he was tired, he went up
to the ledge to maybe go to the bathroom, and
slipped hit his head. His life jacket maybe was and

(58:33):
we don't know if it was buckled or not, or
maybe he had taken it off because he's done for
the day, and then fell in and then he got stuck,
went down the river and a bit and then got
stuck in one of those strainer points and I just
didn't find him.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I'm with you, and I'm gonna say, freak accident. Yeah,
freak accident, and just unfortunately that's how it ended.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
Yeah. That or that's the three cases that I had
not you know, sorry for anyone listening. Not very cheerful
cases this week. I mean, are they ever really cheerful?
The one where the husband or the guy and the
girlfriend were found was a positive. U.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
So the one the one one of like seventy or whatever,
we're on seventy eight eight, So seventy seven of the
seventy eight are not let us know in the comments,
we want to hear your theories, your theories, and if
you like these cases that we cover a couple cases
with a little less information.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
I think we sprinkle them in. There will be Yeah,
we'll sprinkle them in. We'll always sprinkle them in. Oh,
recording a very fun and interesting Patreon episode. Next on
the Strange stuff that's been in the sky lately.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Oh yeah, so it's gonna be a fun It's gonna
be a fun Conspiracy Field episode.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Only for paid subscribers. So I want to hear that
you have to go to our alute channel. Who little,
Probably I'll probably have to mute that because it's kind.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
I'll be copyright it'll be it'll be like, do you
think they'll pick up like the one second whistle.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Maybe we'll They're pretty good at well getting copyrights tricks.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
All right, thanks again for tuning into our show. We
appreciate all of you for listening and sharing locations unknown
with your friends and family. Be sure to like and
follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, all the places
where you find can find our videos and each episode
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to buy some cool swag. Additionally, you can subscribe to

(01:00:25):
our Patren account on YouTube and also on YouTube and
also now on Apple where you can do the extra
and you can get that episode that we're talking about.
I keep wanting to call Patren episodes. It's paid subscriber.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Episode, subscriber episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, if you want to hear crazy conspiracy theories and
other theories that were conspiracy theories that became true because
they're unclassified, you are going to want to get a
Patreon or subscriber subscription and listen to that show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
And lastly, when enjoying the beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping,
or simply taking a walk, always remember to leave no trace.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Thanks and we will see you all next time.

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From the Vault - Grand Canyon Cold Cases

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From the Vault - Grand Canyon Cold Cases