King Arthur: In Search of the Lost King

It’s the 6th century, Britain’s a chaotic mess—Roman rule’s gone, Saxons are invading, and a warrior king fights his last battle. Then, poof—he’s gone, whisked away to a mysterious place called Avalon, never to be seen again.  Did this King really vanish into the wilderness, or is his whole story just a legend?”  Join us this week as we investigate the strange disappearance of King Arthur, Camelot, and the Holy Grail.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable and try to piece together what happened. And you
are listening to Locations Unknown.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
What's up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of
Locations Unknown. I'm your co host, Joe oh Erotow and
with me as always as a guy who can defeat
a hundred gorillas with one hand tied behind his back.
Mike vander Bogart.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Oh, thank you, Joe, and thank you once again to
all of our amazing listeners for tuning in. Just a
couple of announcements before we go in here. First, I'd
like to give it thank you to new Patreon members.
So thank you to Katie Silvus and Jacob bud Key.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Thank you so much for supporting the show, and we
really appreciate the support and hopefully we'll be doing another
Patreon only members call after the one we bungled during
the live stream.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
We tried our best, We tried our best, but we
screwed it up. Yeah, we had way too many things
running out once.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, that's that kind of show you need like an
actual crew to like man the board.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I will say, I'll give us credit for us doing
it on our own and having that much success. Yeah. No,
but they couldn't hear stuff. We couldn't hear them. By
the time I figured it out with the phone, it
was already too late.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, there was a lot of dead time while we
were trying to fix stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
But it was fun.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Joe and I are both exhausted from doing it, almost
five hours of talking.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah. Also, nobody wants that. No. If you want to call.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
The show or text show, you can call two away
three nine one six nine three. Check out some of
the other podcasts on our network, Peanut and Butter, Mountain, Peanut,
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You want to support the show, you can join our
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(02:29):
and Speaker, and someday I will get the new store
up and running. Stay tuned for.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
That Sunday you said on Sunday. I know, some someday, Oh, someday, Someday,
not Sunday, No, not Sunday, all right, all right, everybody,
let's gear up and get out to explore locations unknown.

(03:03):
It's the sixth century, Britain's a chaotic mess, Roman rules gone,
Saxon's are invading, and a warrior king fights his last battle.
Then poof, he's gone, whisked away to a mysterious place
called Avalon, never to be seen again. Did this king
really vanish into the wilderness or is this whole story

(03:24):
just a legend? Join us this week as we investigate
the strange disappearance of King Arthur. It's not every day

(03:52):
we have a king on the show. Not every day
we have a king of the show. And I didn't
know the backstory of King Arthur. All I knew was
what the move nineties movie, Yeah, a Kid in King
Arthur's Court, Yeah, that's pretty much the extent of it.
And the cartoon King Arthur.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
And then the Son of Anarchy King Arthur.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, I didn't even finish that one. Was a terrible movie.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
So, yeah, you're gonna get We're gonna we're gonna talk
about a lot of Yeah, it was an awful movie.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
I like couldn't finish it.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
It was all those movies where I kept falling asleep
and eventually was like, you know what, I'm not even
gonna watch it, right, I've watched some awful movies like
Nick Cage is the knowing excuse me.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Every Nick Cage movie ever made is amazing. I expect
you to take that back.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Nothing better than Connyere that was con here is an
amazing movie. Don't close second was face Off? Face Off
is a great movie.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
I want to take this face Off off the Rock? Okay,
the Rock. The Rock is a great movie.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
That's a that's a quiet banger of a movie.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Yeah, nobody
knows about it, no or remembers it. Yeah I do.
I do too. I'm a huge Nick Cage fan.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
And the guy Sean Connery, Sean Cony, Yeah, he was
kind of phoning it in it by that point.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, he made his money.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, he was just there for There's lots of other
great Nick Cage movies. I guess yeah, I mean, I'm
trying to fake of some, but I mean he's a
great actor. He just Hey, you gotta respect the man.
Just he's in everything. He's in it for the money.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yep, it's a job.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
You got a script and you got ten million dollars
or whatever it is to pay him.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
But he's in Boom So all right, So introduction to
the mystery of King Arthur. Now that we're off the
Nicholas Cage topic. Imagine a wounded king, fresh from brutal battle,
carried through misty marshes to a hidden island called Avalon,
a place no one can find. He vanishes, leaving only
a promise to return. Where did King Arthur go? And

(05:44):
what was the mysterious Avalon? Like in the sixth century
when a real king might have walked its wilds? So
who is King Arthur? King Arthur is a legendary British
leader central to the Arthurian legend, Portrayed as a heroic
king who united Britain against invaders into the Lake the
late fifth and early sixth century. He is depicted as

(06:04):
the ruler of Camelot, a mythical court leading the Knights
of the Roundtable, a group of noble warriors sworn to
justice and chivalry, born to the Uther Pendragon, King of Britain,
and Igrain, Duchess of Cornwall through a magical deception orchestrated
by the wizard Merlin. According to Geoffrey of momonth circa

(06:28):
eleven thirty six. All the words I know from sixth
century Britain. Yes, Conceived at Tintagel, Cornwall, a coastal stronghold,
and raised in secrecy by Sir Ector to protect him
from his enemies. Married to Queen Guenevere, whose affair with
Sir Lancelot, Arthur's greatest knight, leads to strife in Camelot's

(06:49):
downfall in later romances. This is from Crichton to TWI.
Let's have the book lancelot El circa eleven seventies, advised
by Merlin, a wizard who shapes his destiny until Merlin's
own mysterious disappearance. Well, he's a wizard.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, so if a wizard disappears, I don't really would
call it mysterious.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
There'd be more power for the course. Yeah, you're probably right. Yeah,
Betrayed by his nephew slash Son. I'm not going to
dive into that. Mordred, born of an incestuous union with
his sister Morgoz in some versions, who usurps the throne.
Mortally wounded at the Battle of Camlin, a circle of
five to thirty seven fighting Mordred instead of dying, he

(07:31):
is taken to the mystical island of Avalon to heel
with a prophecy of his return as the once in
future King. So Avalon is often linked to Gastonbury's marks,
his vanishing, blending history and myth so some key traits
and achievements. Renowned for uniting warring British tribes and defending
against the Saxon invaders, notably winning the Battle of Badon

(07:55):
in five hundred. A skilled fighter wielding the magical sword Excale,
given by the Lady the Lake, which enhances his prowess
and legitimacy as king. I am just thinking of all
of the Holy Grail quotes every time I'm reading all
these names from Monty Python. He leaves his knights and
seeking the Grail, a sacred relic, as described in the

(08:16):
Vulgate cycle thirteenth century. So who was Merlin Besides just
a wizard? Merlin is a legendary wizard and adviser to
King Arthur in Artherian legend, known for his magical powers, prophecy,
and wisdom. He first appears as merlanis half human, half
supernatural figure born of a mortal woman and incubus, granting

(08:37):
him mystical abilities, key roles. He orchestrates Arthur's birth by
magically aiding Uther Pendergon, guides Arthur's rises, king and shapes
events throughout his life. Depicted as a seer, shape shifter,
and enchanter, often living in forests or caves, blending Celtic,
Druidic and Christian mystic traits.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Totally sounds like a guy.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, it totally sounds like a whole real scenario. And
everything you did say it was gonna be difficult to
get through this. I did not know how difficult it
was gonna be to get through it.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
But and a little inside base, but barely did I
have the phonetic spelling in here? And I was joking
with Joe before we start. I said, even the phonetic
spelling is hard.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, like I'm trying.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, I'm actually actually trying. So what is the miss?
You know, what is the mystery of Arthur's disappearance? So
let's jump right into first the mystery of Avalon. So
in etherean legend, Avlon is the mystical place where Arthur
is taken after his final battle per writings from around
five point thirty seven, and this was to heal, not die.

(09:42):
It's described as an island, possibly led by enchantress Morgan
le Fay, where magic rains. So Glasstonberry this so there's
a Glassonbury connection. So since the twelfth century, Glassonbury in
Somerset has been the leading candidate for avalon. Medieval monks
claimed to find Arthur and Guenevere's grave at Glassonbury Abbey

(10:06):
in eleven ninety, cementing the link. So why Glassenbury. So
in the sixth century this place was surrounded by marshes
and wetlands, making it an island in the summrset levels.
The Glassonbury Tor, a prominent hill, stood like a beacon
in this watery wilderness. So the landscape of the area

(10:29):
it was vast, low lying wetland, often flooded with patches
of red reedbeds, alder swamps and shallow lakes. Glassenbury was
a near island, accessible by boat or narrow causeway through
the mire. The Glassonbury Tor It's a steep one hundred
and fifty eight meter hill rising from the flats, crowned

(10:51):
with scrub or sparse trees.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
I just lost my spot hold on this keeps happening
I know it was.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
A natural landmark, possibly with springs like the Chalice badding
mystical vibes. The surrounding area was dense forests, oak, ash,
and hazel. Paths were muddy tracks, easily swallowed by the
floods or fog. The environment, like I said, wild and remote.
It was soggy, untamed, frontier, thick mud, sudden mists that

(11:19):
could disorient travelers. Wolves and boar roamed nearby woods and
the weather sixth century. This time this area climate was
cool and wet, with frequent drizzle or fog, making the
levels feel like a place where the world ended, and
the storms could turn the marshes into death traps. Human
presence in this area so Glastonbury was a was a

(11:44):
small community, likely Roman, British or Early Christian, living on
raised ground or wooden platforms. The tour may have been
a ritual site, possibly with a pre Christian shrine or
early church. Locals in the area would have fished, hunted,
and trade. Pottery shards show Mediterranean imports. The area was

(12:05):
a crossroads, but its isolation made it feel otherworldly, so
excavations in the area show fifth and sixth century occupation.
There were timber structures, tools, and Christian artifacts, hinting at
a significant but small settlement. So the evolution of Avalon
over time through literature is pretty interesting. That starts with

(12:27):
Jeffrey of Monmouth. He wrote a book in eleven thirty
six where he said Arthur is carried to the Insula
Avalonis by unnamed figures. The text is silent on his death,
suggesting survival or supernatural escape, setting the stage for the mystery.
Then in eleven fifty Jeffrey's Vita Merlini expands Avalon as

(12:52):
a paradisical island ruled by Morgan le Fay, a sorceress,
where Arthur is tended by no magical sisters. It's described
as a land of eternal spring with no sickness or death,
hinting at a Celtic inspired other world. Then in the
eleven seventies we have Creton Detors. Early romances mention Avalon

(13:16):
indirectly as a mystical place tied to Arthur's legend, though
focus shifts to knights like Lancelot. In the thirteenth century
we have the Vulgate cycle. It portrays Avalon as a
hidden sanctuary where Arthur is taken by Morgan and other ladies.
The questel does Saint Grail suggest his survival with no

(13:40):
clear tomb, reinforcing the ambiguity in Joe, you've been looking
at some interesting stuff on the screen. Letting me know
what you've been looking at?

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Pictures of avalon obviously artists renditions, because we don't have
a lot of pictures going on, but just they have
maps and other things that are in here that show
essentially what the story had laid it out. Yeah, and
then paintings and drawings of King Arthur himself. Would they
have picked him in the ancient pictures? Let's see you

(14:08):
pull this up again. I had him pulled up, King Arthur.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
I'll get ready to have one so little curly hairs
on the side, kind of what you would imagine a
British king of that time would look like.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, Beard coming down. He was in the Sons of Anarchy.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Not Charlie Hunt.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Or whatever his name is, un whatever. Okay, he doesn't
look he doesn't look happy.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
That looks pretty intense. Yeah, I wouldn't want to cross him. Yeah,
I do know which one of his knights came up
with a round table? Which one circumference? All right, I'm sorry, Okay,
getting back into a little bit more of getting away

(14:51):
from moving on. So fourteen eighty five Thomas Mallory wrote
a book, and in that book he wrote that Arthur
is born away by Morgan le Fay and other women
to Avlon after Kamlan. A hermit later reports a tomb,
but Mallory notes some men say Arthur is not dead,
preserving the mystery of his fate. So these texts over

(15:14):
time vary. Some imply Arthur lives in Avalon, others hint
at his death. The vague location in island, shrouded and
mist and a lack of closure fuels the speculation. So
there's a lot of Celtic influences in the story of Avlon.
So it's depicted as an idyllic island with apple orchards,

(15:36):
healing waters, and magical inhabitants. It's often called Insula pomorum,
which means island of apples or fortunate island. This all
likely draws from Celtic other worlds like the Irish turna
og which means land of youth, or Welsh anun realms

(15:57):
where heroes dwell immortal, untouched by time. These parallels suggest
Avlon is a supernatural destination, not a geographical one.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Oh okay, Yeah, so like he could have died in battle.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, but a lot of the texts don't say that
he died in battle. They say that he lives on
and will becoming, you know, returning. There's a lot of
it's interesting this story seems to be mixing a lot
of obviously Celtic lore with kind of Christianity almost. There's
some similarities to the story of Jesus and all that.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
And from a mystical place.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, what's interesting how these stories sometimes merge different religions
and what was Morgan le Fay's rolling all of this?
So Morgan le Fay, like we said, was a sorceress
and Arthur's half sister, which was described in later texts,
and she's central to the Avalon mystery. In Vita Merlini,

(16:58):
she rules Avalon using magic to heat Arthur. In Mallory's books,
she leads the boat that carries them away. Early texts
portray Morgan as a benevolent a person, a healer with
Celtic goddess traits. Morgan's involvement raises questions was she preserving
Arthur for his return or did her magic bind him

(17:18):
to Avalon forever. Her presence ties Avalon to the supernatural.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Intrigue of this story.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
And there are possible alternate locations. I'm sorry, my microphone
is falling off.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, you are just like constantly adjusting that thing. We'll
cut all this out. No, I won't just stop touching it.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
Well no, it was like literally falling off. Oh really yeah,
it was like unscrewed.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Oh interesting. Probably could you touch it someone? Probably?

Speaker 3 (17:41):
So possible alternate locations. So one of the locations is
Bardsey Island in Wales. So this is a remote one
point eight square kilometer island off the Lynn Peninsula, known
as the Island of twenty thousand Saints in Wells tradition.
It's isolation in Celtic spiritual history make it a candidate

(18:01):
for Evlon, linked to Merlin in some folklore, but it
also lacks Thurian evidence. Its misty sea bound setting fits
the hidden island motif, though another place is El Deval
in Brittany. This is a small island off the Breton coast,
linguistically tied to Avlon. French Athurian traditions suggest a continental link,

(18:26):
but it's less prominent than Glastonbury. Another island is Mount
Etna in Sicily. There is an obscure reference in nineteenth
or ninth century writings that claims Arthur survived in a
Sicilian cave, likely a medieval conflation with other myths. It's
not widely accepted, but adds to the mystery, and some

(18:49):
say there's just no fixed location. So some scholars argue
Avlon is purely mythical, a literary construct with no railroad counterpart,
inspired by Celtic other worlds. This view emphasizes its role
as a narrative device to explain Arthur's absence. So very interesting.
We can't even settle on the location, and the rest

(19:11):
of the story of King Arthur is even more confusing.
The next big mystery is Camelot. So that was where
he held court. And I'm sure everyone's heard of Camelot. Yes,
that's more familiar.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
And I'm trying on second belt. Let's not go to Kamela.
It's a silly place. Here we go. I'm gonna go
home watch that movie. I'm gonna have to. Yeah, I'm
gonna fall asleep in the middle of it. But it's
gonna be a great one to fall asleep too.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Kamel It is the legendary court of King Arthur, first
name in Creighton de Torres Lancelot, eleven seventies. It's depicted
as a grand fortress or city where Arthur holds court
with the Knights of the Roundtable. Earlier texts from eleven
thirty six mentioned Arthur's court but don't name Camelot, suggesting
it's a later literary edition, possibly inspired by real or

(19:59):
mythical strongholds. Its location is unspecified. In medieval sources, It's
described vaguely as a fortified place in Britain, leading to
centuries of speculation about its whereabouts or even if it existed.
So the mystery of Camelot's absence from historical records makes
it a lost place. Was it a real fortress that

(20:22):
vanished from history, a composite of multiple sites, or purely fictional.
The lack of archaeological evidence directly tied to Arthur or
a place called Camelot fuels the debate, with some scholars
arguing it symbolizes an unattainable golden age rather than a
physical sight. Its disappearance also mirrors Arthur's own vanishing to Avalon.

(20:44):
Both are central in the legend, yet concrete evidence eludes everyone,
so it's kind of blending history and myth. So where
do they think Camelot was? They have some speculation on places,
So one of the leading locations is Cadbury Castle.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So Cadbury Castle.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Is an iron age hill fort in South Cadbury, Somerset,
covering eighteen acres with massive earthwork ramparts overlooking a rural
landscape of fields and woodlands. Are you looking at a
picture of it now?

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah? This is it right here? What's left of it
at least? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:20):
So I mean that kind of sounds like how Camelot
was described. Yeah, so the actual castle's not really there anymore.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, that's you always wonder too. Is it possible they
were all based on real places and they were renamed
things in storytelling? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:35):
I mean this is Camelot, but this it was actually
think of how stories were told back then. Not many
people read.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well almost, Okay, if we're gonna go, let's go on
the road that it's real. What a great counterintelligence thing
to do. Explained. So if your enemy hears that you're
in Camelot, Camelot doesn't exist, like they're.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Really like Cadbury Castle exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
They're gonna be looking for something that doesn't exist that
makes sense, and I mean not really, but well, could.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
You think of how information spread back then? Yeah, word
of mouth, word of mouth. People didn't most people couldn't read.
So and it's like the telephone game. It was the telephone,
especially over hundreds of years.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
I mean the story.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
Probably there are probably so many variations of King Arthur
lost to history that we'll never even know about. Just
people told so, like I said, Cadbury Castle is the
leading candidate for Camelot. Excavations in nineteen sixty six through
nineteen seventy uncovered fifth and sixth century occupation, including a

(22:40):
large timber haul, pottery from Mediterranean trade, and refortified ramparts,
suggesting a wealthy Dark Age stronghold. A stronghold so local
tradition dating back to at least the sixteenth century identifies
Cadbury as Camelot, possibly due to its strategic position and
imposing presence. In fifteen forty, John Leland noted villagers called

(23:06):
it Camelaatee or Arthur's Palace. The site's fifth and sixth
century activity aligns with Arthur's supposed era, with evidence of
a high status leader, imported goods, defensive upgrades. However, like
everything about the story, no direct proof inscriptions. Naming Arthur

(23:27):
confirms it as Camelot, and looking at the pictures, it
has kind of a haunting landscape. So Cadbury Castle sits
atop a one hundred and fifty three meters hill. It's
surrounded by steep slopes and dense woods of oak and ash,
with mist often pulling in from the valley below. The
ramparts overgrown with grass create a labyrinth kind of an

(23:49):
eerie atmosphere. In Arthur's time, the hill fort would have
been a bustling hub, timber halls, thatched roofs and watchtowers.
Even though it was isolated, there would have been forests
and marshes, limiting access at night. Flickering fires and howling
winds would enhance the mystique of the air area, and
visitors described the site as frozen in time, with its

(24:12):
silent earthworks evoking a lost kingdom. The surrounding countryside, dotted
with hedgerows and streams, feels untouched, amplifying the sense of
a vanished world.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
So is it fair to say that a hill is
frozen in time? Because I mean what I'm looking at
is just a hill. Yeah, but I mean the thing
used to be built on. Yeah, and I that.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Picture doesn't There might be things that.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
I'm gonna I'll find some more pictures because right now
I'm not I'm not feeling it.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, look up just ype in Cadbury Castle.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Oh really, I was seeing if there's a link to
the Cadbury Eggs, probably there's a well thing. So I
see where it was. Yeah, like maybe you should pulled up.
Were you not cheering any of that? No, I wasn't
originally see like, okay, all right, I wouldn't call that
frozen in time. I'd call it a ruin. Yeah, but

(25:07):
I'm splitting hairs. Okay.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
So there's a lot of paranormal lore with Camelot, so
we have local legends. So Somerset folklore claims Arthur and
his knights sleep beneath Cadbury Castle in a shallow hill,
ready to ride out in Britain's hour of need. This
Mirror's Celtic myth of sleeping heroes. There's spectral sightings in

(25:31):
the area. This sounds like a great place. Evan should
go do some ghost hunting. Yes, a twentieth century account
describes a farmer hearing clashing swords near the hill fort
at midnight with no visible source. Another tale from the
nineteen sixties claims a hiker saw a knight in silver
vanish into the mist on the hill summit. And then

(25:51):
there's you know, supernatural context. So the Hilford's isolation ancient
aura fuel stories like these, with some linking them to
pre Christian beliefs about sacred hills and gateways.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
To the other world.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Just quickly, before we get into our next mystery, there's
a couple other possible locations. So care Leone in Wales,
it's a Roman fortress with fifth and sixth century remains
mentioned in Welsh tradition. And if you outlook that up
it's c A R L e.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
O N carly Leon Castle. Oh and there we got. Yeah,
this is frozen in time. Yeah the castle is still yeah,
it's still standing.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
It's there Roman structures still standing.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
So, like I said, this is from the fifth sixth century,
it's mentioned in wealth Welsh tradition, and it's Amphitheaters speculated
to be the Roundtable, but evidence is thin of course.
Another location is Winchester Hampshire. So Mallory identifies Winchester as Camelot,

(26:54):
possibly due to its medieval significance and a fourteenth century
roundtable artifact. However, six century archaeology.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Here is sparse, So now we're talking. The debate rages on.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
So Cadbury Castle's Dark Age fortifications in folklore make it
the strongest candidate, but the mystery to this day still
persists on where Camlot was did it even exist? So
very interesting. The next mystery that we're going to get into,
and I think is the most interesting one, is the

(27:26):
Holy Grail. And this is been in lots of different
pop culture. Weren't they looking for it in one of
the Indiana Jones movies?

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, it was The Raiders, not Raiders Lost Ark? Is it?
I don't Maybe I don't remember, but I remember one
of them.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
They were looking for it, yes, because they like Nazis
had it or something.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
They did, like drink from it when you chose poorly. Oh,
that was Raiders the Lost Ark.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
I'll have to watch that too. I'd seen that and
that's a great one. So for those of you who
do not know what the Holy Grail is, the Grail
first peers in Creighton de Torres Perceville, or the Story
of the Grail circa eleven eighty. It's described as a mysterious,
radiant vessel carried in a procession, possibly a dish or

(28:14):
cup with spiritual significance. Later texts from around twelve hundred
identified as a cup used by Jesus at the Last Supper,
later catching his blood at the crucifixion. It was then
brought to Britain by Joseph of arrhythmia or rhythmia. Probably

(28:35):
got that wrong, like heart arrhythmia. No, it's our a.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
R I M a thchea. Yeah, I don't know, so
then later got it.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
I got it later in the thirteenth century. The Vulgate
Cycle and another book by Mallory in fourteen eighty five
cement the Grail as a sacred relic, a symbol of
divine grace only attainable by.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
The peer of knights.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
So the Grail is a vanished artifact because it eludes
all but a few. It's physical absence, no historical relic
matches it. It makes it a puzzle.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Wasn't real? Was it a metaphor? No one knows. It
wasn't raised. The Lost arc it was less Crusade.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Oh, okay, that makes that is who's the other actor
in that? That's that was his name from the Rocke Yeah, okay,
I remember they spoiler alert and I don't care because
it's like from the eighties when he uses the cup
to heal him.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Oh, I don't remember that part.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Oh it's been so long since I've seen that one.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, this scene right here, he has to pick the cup.
They have picked the one that they think Jesus drank from. Okay,
and then the one guy chooses poorly. Jesus, You've chosen poorly,
won trill the image.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
So the quest of Arthur's Knights to five the Holy
Grail scatters them across the British wilderness, with many of
them never returning. And so who were the knights that disappeared?
So in the Vulgate, Arthur's Knights undertake the Grail quest,

(30:17):
venturing into the forest, moors and remote castles. The quest
was perilous, with only Galahad perceval and Bores succeeding. So Galahad,
he was the purest knight. He finds the Grail in
the castle of Corbenic, but after a divine vision he

(30:37):
ascends to heaven, vanishing from the mortal world. His disappearance
is mystical, not tragic, but leaves no trace. Perceval seeks
the Grail but fails initially due to impurity, wandering for years.
Later texts have him achieve the Grail and retire as
a hermit, effectively disappearing from Camelot. Now, Lancelot was obviously

(31:00):
barred from the Grail due to his affair with Guenevere,
but so Lancelot roams in despair, lost in the wild landscapes,
and nearly dies. He survives, but is spiritually lost. So
some of the reason why people had such a hard
time finding the Grail was because there's a lot of

(31:21):
lore that they're supernatural protectors of the Gril. So you've
got the fisher King. So in Creighton's Vulgate cycle, the
Grail is guarded by the Fisher King, a wounded ancient
figure in a hidden castle. His eerie presence, sustained by
the grail but suffering, adds a haunting tone as he
tests the Knight's worthiness. So then you've got the Grail Maidens.

(31:45):
So the grail is carried by a mysterious woman described
in Creighton's Percival. She is described as radiant but otherworldly,
possibly angelic, their silent, ghostly processions, unnerved nights hinting at
divine or demonic origins. So then you have these spectral guardians.
So the Vulgate cycle describes knights encountering visions, flaming spears,

(32:09):
shadowy nights, or even demonic figures guarding the Grail's path.
These apparitions kill or drive mad unworthy seekers, and then
some say there's demonic forces guarding it. So Mallory describes
that the devils or fiends masquerading his guides learning knights

(32:30):
to death. A knight in the one of the books
sees a vision of Hell after touching a false graiale,
so that kind of goes back to the Indiana Jones
melt off.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, I know, ages, what is that as a spectral guardian.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh that's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
It's awesome. Goes that for Halloween. I'll go, is that
to electric force? There you go, I'll win. I'll win
electric force.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Walk around with the grail and yes, like the people
will get it. Yeah, it's an eclectic crowd. So later
medieval tales from the fourteenth century romances and add sinister
protectors like spectral warriors or cursed landscapes, forces that swallow
men tied to the Grail's sanctity. Some claim the Grail's

(33:18):
light burns impure eyes, which is a chilling, detri deterrent.
So there's a lot of terrifying things that allegedly guard
the Grail, So I don't know that i'd want to
go looking for it. Is there any historical context to
the Holy Grail, so I guess there's got to be
some well, the origins of the debate, so the Grail

(33:40):
may stem from Celtic mythology blended with Christian relics. No
physical Grail has been found supporting its mythical status. Glassenbury
linked to Grail Ore has six century Christian artifacts like crosses,
but no Grail evidence. The Chalice Wells red waters or
tied to Grail myth, but lack historical proof. Obviously, the

(34:04):
Grail has had huge cultural impact. The Grail's mystery reflects
medieval fascination with relics and quests, with its vanishing act
symbolizing unattainable purity. The knights disappearance echo real world losses
in Crusades, or pilgrimages. So before we get into some
of the really creepy stories surrounding King Arthur, I just

(34:28):
wanted to cover a little bit of the historical debate
about King Arthur. So this isn't just a crazy story,
mythical story. There is a lot of debate that's gone on.
Was he real, is he led a myth?

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Is it a mixture of historical figures.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
It could be anything, because there's a lot of writing
on it, but not a lot of evidence has been found.
To understand Avalon's role and everything surrounding Arthur, you need
to go into the world of this time period. So
Britain in fifth and sixth centuries, its post Roman pre Saxon,

(35:04):
was a dark age, very few written records, lots of warfare.
Arthur emerges in later texts as a leader who unites
Britain's against invaders, but evidence is very shaky. Here's some
pro Arthur theories that say he's real. The earliest mention
comes in about eight twenty nine, which lists Arthur as

(35:26):
a war leader, winning twelve battles, including Baden Hill, which
was around five hundred. It's not really a biography, but
it suggests a historical figure. Then you have Welsh short sources,
so the sixth century Welsh poems around six hundred mentioned
and Arthur like warrior, hinting at a real hero who deeds,
whose deeds were exaggerated. The Annales Cambria around nine to

(35:51):
seventy notes Arthur's victory at Baden which they list as
five sixteen and his death at Camelot at five point
thirty seven. And you do have some archaeological clues, so
sites at Tintagel in Cornwall and Cadbury Castle show fifth
and sixth century activity, wealthy settlements that could fit a

(36:12):
powerful leader's base. So some historians propose Arthur was a
Romano British leader, maybe a calvalry commander whose victories were
turned into mythology. So now here's the people who think
it's a complete myth. So there's no contemporary fifth or
sixth century sources that name Arthur. The Historia Britonium is

(36:38):
three hundred years later, and earlier writers like Guildis, which
was around five point forty, mentioned Baden, but not arthur exaggerations.
So Arthur's feats killing nine hundred and sixty Saxons single
handedly in the Historia Britonum sounded legendary but not factual.
Welsh tales blend him with Celtic gods and me, and

(37:01):
a lot of people say it was just a literary creations.
Jeffrey of Monmouth's History Resume Britannia around eleven thirty six
turns Arthur into a grandiose king with a magical court,
likely fictionalizing a kernel of truth or inventing him entirely. So,
you know, scholars like David Dumville argue Arthur is a

(37:23):
folkloric legend or folkloric figure like Robin Hood, with no
solid evidence tying him to a specific person.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Did they figure that out about Shakespeare, that he wasn't
like an individual person but a group of writers.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
I don't remember up.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I remember seeing something like that and it seemed well, okay,
if it's real at the time, and I heard about
it like that seems like pretty earth shattering news.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I think I remember reading that. That's a theory. I
don't know how.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, I don't know how they came to it. I
just saw have one, so don't take more word on it.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
There is a middle ground view of King Arthur. So
many experts like John Morris suggest Arthur could be a composite.
It based on multiple real leaders whose stories were merged
into a legendary hero. I would tend to think Arthur
is probably based on some real life people, but then

(38:15):
it was blended over time into this like mythology of
King Arthur through the telephone game over the years, and
every book that came out added a little more flavor
to the story, and over time we have who we
now know is King Arthur. So what do you finding

(38:35):
on Shakespeare?

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Google results that he was a person.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
I'm gonna well, Google's right, then it's always right.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Maybe maybe I haven't gone to the conspiracies yet.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
So before we end this episode on King Arthur, I'm
going to go into some of the crazy stories that
surround King Arthur and the years after. So the first
one is called the ghost Boat of Avalon in Somerset folklore,
particularly around the Misty Somerset Levels near Glastonbury. Locals since

(39:08):
the locals since the thirteenth century have reported seeing a
spectral boat gliding through the marshes at dusk or during
heavy fog. The boat, described as black with tattered sails,
carries a silent crown figure believed to be Arthur, escorted
by shadowy women, possibly Morgan le Fay and her enchantresses.
Witnesses claim the boat vanishes into the mist near Glastonbury Tour,

(39:31):
leaving an icy chill and whispers in the air some accounts.
Some accounts recorded in the nineteenth century oral traditions, describe
the boat as emitting a low, mournful wail, and those
who approach it feel paralyzed or lose time, waking hours
later with no memory. A seventeenth century tail claims a
fisherman who followed the boat was found dead, his face

(39:54):
frozen in terror. This is all tied to Arthur's disappearance
to Avalon because the boat reinforced the idea of a
supernatural journey to the hidden realm, with Glastonbury's marshes as
a liminal space where the living and dead intersect. So
that's a pretty terrifying story.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, I'm glad it's not real, or is it? It
could be.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
The next story I read about was called the Fairy
Hill of Glastonbury tor So Glastonbury Tour is linked to Avalon.
It's known in local folklore as a fairy hill housing
Arthur's sleeping spirit and his nights. Since medieval times, tales
describe travelers hearing ghostly hoof beats or clashing swords beneath

(40:38):
the tour at midnight. A fifteenth century legend tells of
a monk who entered a cave on the tour seeking Arthur,
only to emerge raving about shadow nights with glowing eyes,
who drove them out with unearthly screams. Modern accounts twentieth
century report seeing spectral figures and armor on the tour's

(40:58):
slopes during fog, vanishing when approached. Some claim the Torus
springs like challice well bubble with a red glow at night,
tied to Arthur's blood or a demonic presence guarding his rest.
A nineteen twenties story describes it hiker trapped in a
looping path on the tour, hearing whispers urging him to
join the king until dawn broke.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
So most people think he was one person Shakespeare.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Yes, okay, so there must be a fringe belief that
it was like a bunch of writers.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah. Yeah, it's called group theory or something like that. Interesting. Yeah,
I had never heard that, I guess I read it
in a headline probably from I don't know, some website
that's not a real news site.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
The next wild story from the King Arthur tail is
the Phantom Knights of Cadbury Castle. So Cadbury Castle, a
Somerset Hill fort and potential camelot, is steeped in folklore,
claiming Arthur and his knight's sleep in a hollow hill
ready to ride out. Since the sixteenth century, locals have
reported chilling encounter phantom hoof beats echoing on stormy nights,

(42:04):
or ghostly knights and silver armor galloping across the ramparts,
their faces skeletal or obscured, obscured by the mist. A
nineteenth century tail recounts a sheep herder who saw a
king in a golden crowd leading a spectral host, only
to vanish into the hill, leaving scorched marks on the grass.

(42:24):
Some stories describe an oppressive silence before sightings, with animals
refusing to approach the hill for it. A nineteen sixties
account claims a camper herd swords clashing inside the earth,
followed by a voice whispering not yet in his ear.
Another tale warns of entering Cadbury's hidden gate at midnight.
Traps you with Arthur's ghosts forever. So another terrifying story,

(42:50):
So don't go through the gate at midnight. Another story
around Arthur is the cursed seekers of the Holy Grail.
So the Holy Girl Quest, as depicted in the Vulgates
cycle and in Mallory's books, includes terrifying tales of knights
encountering supernatural protectors. One fourteenth century romance describes a knight
unnamed who entered a chapel perilous seeking the Grail, only

(43:16):
to face a demonic hand wielding a flaming spirit that
burned his companion to ash. Another tale from the Questel
Saint gral A Grail tells of a knight lured by
false grail vision a glowing cup held by a beautiful
maiden who transforms him into a serpent demon, dragging him

(43:36):
into the chasm.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
At the castle. Anthrax, guess that's in the movie Social
Holy Grail? Is it? My python? Oh, mighty python.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, they have the grail light on. He's like, I
saw the grail and like, oh, we must have left
the light on. It was like, I'll have to rewatch it.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
So folklore around Glassenbury linked to the Grail via. Some
of these old books includes stories of seekers vanishing in
the levels marshes after seeing blood red light. So a
seventeenth century legend claims a monk who sought the Grail
in the tor cave was found with his eyes burned out,
muttering about angels with claws. These protectors, demons, spectrul knights

(44:16):
or cursed maidens punished the unworthy with death or madness.
So you've got a lot of these crazy stories. There's
a few more I won't cover just to speed this along,
because we could talk all night about King Arthur's So.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
What was people getting killed by special.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
So yeah, there really was a lasting legacy of King Arthur's.
So his legend was codified in all of these medieval
texts that we talked about, and starting in the eleven hundreds,
going through to modern times, the Roundtable, Excalibur, and the

(44:56):
Grail Quest became archtypes for heroism, unity, spiritual pursuit, influencing
countless stories across genres. Arthur embodies ideals of justice, leadership, hope,
serving as a symbol of British identity and resistance, especially
during times of crisis medieval times, world Wars, His prophecy

(45:16):
as the once in future King fuels myths of returning savior,
resonating in folklore. Avalon, Camelot, the Grail have become shorthand
for lost Utopia's unattainable ideals and mystical quests, permeating art, poetry,
and philosophy. Arthur's story still thrives even into modern times.

(45:37):
You had the movie Excalibur in nineteen eighty one, King
Arthur Legend of the Sword in twenty seventeen, which terrible movie.
You had the TV show Merlin twenty eight to twenty twelve,
which actually was a pretty darn good TV show, and
even video games Assassin's Creed Valhalla, which I did play
a little bit of adapting.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
His legend is reading books in every single depiction that
I found. Smart guy. Yeah, he's just contemplating life and
learning spells. It's a crazy story.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
They still have festivals in Glastonbury that do re enactments
and tourism at sites.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
It's actually Merlin and King Arthur and they're just immortal.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Yeah, right now, I would like you know how they
did Alien Verse Predator? Yes, what if they did like
Merlin versus Gandalf?

Speaker 2 (46:24):
That'd be pretty good. Who would win?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, Gan off the gray or Grand off the white.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Oh I think the whitees no white powerfully, Yeah, I
think so.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I think if he was getting off the gray, be
an even fight.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
So what's your theory of Arthur before you wrap up?
You think it's real fake a mix.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
I think it is lore intended to win a psychological
battle with the enemy. Okay, there's too much. There's too much.
Maybe it was based off of an actual person. Yeah,
so it might not have even been a king. Maybe
there's you know there. It's kind of like telling fish stories.
It just gets a little bit bigger each time. So

(47:07):
people are regaling tales of a battle and there's a
guy there that just stood out in any type of way.
They're going to tell that story, and like who was he?

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Who?

Speaker 2 (47:16):
He must have been a king? I feel like it's
kind of like that. And oh, it's almost like he
was protected by a wizard. He didn't get with any
arrows and won every sword fight. Like in telephone, as
you said before, it's telephone in eight hundred eighty, yeah,
or fifth and sixth century word of mouth. Yeah, the
books were eight hundred eight, but yeah, like word of mouth,
Like I feel like it was probably an over exaggerated

(47:37):
fish story that lasted centuries.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah, I think if you got down to the base
underlying story, I bet it was based on a real
person or a mixture of real life figures. And I
would even go as far to say, as they're probably
not the names that we know of, but like Camelot
probably was a real place. Probably wasn't named Camelot, Yeah,
but I bet it was a real place, the Grail.

(48:01):
I could even see the knights of a round table,
of the round table being a real thing.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Maybe not round tables existed, Yeah, that's true, so we
assume the knights would sit at them occasionally.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
And I could even I can even go as far
as to say, I could imagine a king hearing about
something in this time period and hearing about like a
grail or something like that, and sending people out to
find it.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Oh yeah, quests. Quest quests were huge back then.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Like, I can imagine that happening. And maybe this story
is loosely.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
And as you're looking for your entire life, you'll die
in some weird way on the way, and it'll be like, oh,
everyone that goes to the Grail dies, it's like, well,
when you look forever.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Yeah, and like you said, I think these are probably
all based on real things at one point.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
So I think so. But then the lore and.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
You just over hundreds of years of people telling word
of mouth, and every time a writer writes a new
book about it, he adds something to it.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah. Never let a good story get in the way.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah, and I think that's how we got to today's
version of King Arthur probably was a real warrior from
that time period, not named King Arthur. Yeah, and the
Knights of the Roundtable probably were a real group of
knights not named that.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Especially circumference comforts. Can't forget about night'sir comference.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
But yeah, I think obviously most of it is just
a cool story. I agree, it's a great story. I
love the movie A Kid in King Arthur's Court, Yeah,
I always have. And yeah, I think I think it's
cool story. Maybe we'll be proven wrong someday and they'll
find the skeleton of Merlin and.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
It'll be floating EXCaliber, Yeah, doing something magical. I didn't
even really cover EXCaliber. Yeah, getting stuck in this not
in the stone. It was given to him by the
Lady the Lake yeah, yeah, So that's one of my
favorite scenes of almost any movie. When Arthur's explaining to
a peasant why is a king and the peasants that
they don't have a king where they're like an autonomous collective,

(49:58):
and he's explaining like the system of government that they're
ruled by. It's my favorite. Some what we talked through
a sword at you? Does it make you king? Thanks
again for tuning into our show. We appreciate all of
you for listening and sharing locations known with your friends
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(50:19):
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(50:44):
Thanks and we will see you all next time.