Lost in the Shadow of the Rockies – The 40-Year Mystery - Part 1 - Locations Unknown

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable and try to piece together what happened.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
You are listening to Locations Unknown.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
What's up everybody, and welcome back to another special part
one Halloween episode of Locations Unknown. I'm your co host
Joe Erato, and with me, as always, is a guy
who knows that Frankenstein is the name of the scientist
and not the monster, Mike vander Bogart.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Oh, thank you Joe, and thank you to everyone for
tuning in. My kids get that confused. I think Frankenstein's
adults get that confused.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
So we've just educated a lot of people and probably
upset many more.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
So welcome to a special two part episode. We will
be releasing the part two of it.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Oh, I love this music you chose for this.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
That's fantastic. It's different. Yes, Part two will be going
live on Halloween. So yeah, once again, thank you so
much for tuning in. Just a few updates before we
get going here, we have some new Patreon shout outs.
We got Christa Anderson, Tessa Simmons, Taylor Hutchinson, Josie Mollator

(01:40):
and Eileen Schumann. So thank you so much for thank
you very much supporting the show. If anyone listening wants
to hear part two right away, join Patreon because they'll
both be going up probably tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Oh, that is a great reason to join Patron. Yeah,
so go ahead into that's the one hundred dollars a
month subscription that gets both of them right away.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Is that? What's no? Just kidding as cheap as five
dollars and you get a bumper sticker. And what about
our phone number, Mike, Oh, you can call two eight
three nine one six three.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I feel like we should tell people on Halloween if
you're out partying and having a good time, Yes, call
the number. Call the number and maybe be whatever persona
your costume is. And then if enough people call, we
could do a Patron episode for all the callers, Like,
I don't know, very shortly afterwards.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I like that. That's that that'd be a fun idea. Yeah,
call the show, especially on a Halloween if you're out
and having a few drinks, we'd like to hear from you.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
So if you're over twenty one, over twenty one otherwise
after you've had a few juice boxes. Yeah, for the
younger viewers, some listeners, kitty cocktails.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I actually love kitty cocktails. I do so sugary.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah exactly, I'm like a hummingbird. Yeah all right, right, anyway,
you're really going off the rails. That's okay, it's it's
a Halloween episode.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Pre Halloween Halloween Eve. Yeah. We got some other cool
shows on our network. You can check out Off the Trails,
The Weird As We Know, Who runs the Spark, and
Crime Off the Grid. If you want to support Locations Unknown,
you can obviously join Patreon, YouTube membership memberships, premium subscriptions
on Apple. What else? We got some other stuff you

(03:18):
can join. Let's just get going. We do have a
store up and running where you can buy stuff from
Locations Unknown. Help support the show, and if you don't
have any money, things are tight. Always just like follow us,
share our posts and our episodes, and just talk to
people you know about Locations Unknown as many times as
you can until they get annoyed with you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Literally, everyone you see, yes, just tell them about it.
That's how you can pay for the show for free. Yes,
so all right, everybody, let's gear up and get out
to explore locations unknown. January nineteen eighty two, two women

(04:09):
disappeared hours apart while hitchhiking from Breckenridge, Colorado, during one
of the worst blizzards the Rockies had seen in decades.
As temperatures plunged below negative twenty degrees fahrenheit, friends and
rescuers searched the frozen corridors of Pike National Forest, only
adding to the mystery. Join us this week for part

(04:30):
one of the mysterious disappearances of Bobby, Joe Oberholtzer and
Annette Schnee. All Right, this case takes place in the

(05:00):
central Colorado's High Country, spanning Summit County, Park County in
Clear Creek County, so some of the key areas Who's
Your Past Summit sits directly on the boundary between Pike
National Forest and the south and the White River National
Force in the north. Since we can't cover all the
various locations in the profile, we're gonna talk about Pike

(05:21):
National Forest its geographics as its geographic center of the case,
and many of the case's events either fall on its
border or inside the forest, So that's gonna be the focus.
As we said, this is in Colorado, it was established
February eleventh and nineteen or eighteen ninety two. Excuse me, Oh,
we'd get some I know right about that. So we're
gonna just do some interesting facts about Halloween.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah. So early jack.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
O lanterns were carved from turnips, not pumpkins, to scare
away evil spirits. In Irish folklore, turnips aren't that big,
They're not. I feel like it'd be creepier because you'd
have a lot more of them. Yeah, and they'd look
like weird faces, like shrunkenheads.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Costumes, which sometimes included animal heads, were originally warned to
disguise people from spirits on the Semahine and ancient Celtic
festival that is the origin of Halloween. Is it sam
hein sam Haine i bet sam Haine an ancient Celtic
festival that is the origin of Halloween. Sure trick or
treating evolved from the medieval practice of souling, where people

(06:24):
would beg for soul cakes in exchange for praying for
the souls of the dead. The mask worn by the
killer in the nineteen seventy eight film Halloween was a
two dollar William Shatner or Captain Kirk mask that was
spray painted white.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
If you know that, I didn't know that either.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Candy corn, the worst candy in the world, was originally
called chicken feed when it was first market in late
eighteen hundreds to appeal to rural communities. And did you
know that the original chicken feed is still what's in
circulation today because no one in the right mind would
actually eat it.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't understand why people like canny. I think it
tastes disgusting, like it's it tastes like you're chewing on
candle wax. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
I think every five years, I like give it a shot. Yeah,
I'm just like, maybe I'm missing something like nope. Still, yeah,
it hits my mouth. I'm like, oh, I didn't know
I was eating oil. Yeah, it's it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
And if you like candy corn, maybe I don't know,
but people every year, it's in every like you go
to work and people bring in Halloween candy. Yeah, full
of candy corn.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
There's a comedian that talks about how he believes there
is a secret society of people that go out and
they just collect all the candy corn that nobody eats,
and that it's just recirculated back into the economy, and
that no new candy corn has actually been made in.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
The last fifty years. I could believe that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
So anyway, my brother in law, Matt, loves candy corn,
and well there's something wrong with Matt. A full moon
Halloween is a rare event, happening only about three or
four times a century.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Did not know that either.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, the famous magician Harry Houdini died on Halloween night
in nineteen twenty six. In medieval times, black cats were
associated with witches and were thought to have supernatural powers.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
I think they still do.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
The word witch comes from the Old English word wicca,
which means wise woman.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Did you know that?

Speaker 1 (08:12):
So if you are called if you're a woman and
you're called a witch, it's actually someone calling you a
wise woman. So you can thank them and say this
did not do what you thought it did.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
All right. So we're gonna get back to the climb
into the area. That was fun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Some of the climate Pike's National Forest stretches from six
thousand feet to the foothills two over fourteen thousand feet
on the peaks. Winters up here aren't just cold, they're punishing.
It's a cold, dry, continental mounted climate thanks to our
friends over at the cop and Climate Classification System blah
blah blah, long harsh winters and short cool summers. Primary

(08:44):
weather influences are continental typical January weather, polar air masses
orographic lift from the Mosquito and Front ranges, and frequent
winter blizzard driven by Pacific systems. So you would expect
to see daytime highs often hover in the team or
low twenties, night drops well below zero, sometimes negative ten

(09:04):
to negative twenty degrees fahrenheit. Winds whipped through the passes
at thirty to fifty miles per hour, turning blowing snow
into blinding whiteouts. Hoosier Pass and the surrounding ridge lines
can pile up to two hundred inches of snow per year.
During storms, visibility can vanish completely, just a wall of
white where a road and sky become one. I've been

(09:26):
in a blizzard in the Rockies. It's pretty terrifying. Actually,
you just kind of have to sit down and wait. Yeah,
you don't want to like walk off a ledge, because
you totally could. During the week of January sixth, nineteen
eighty two, an arctic front swept through central Colorado, so
temperatures plunged to negative twenty five degrees fahrenheit overnight, and
wind chills were near negative forty degrees. Snow drifts grew

(09:47):
several feet deep, and even main roads were nearly impassable.
Search teams later fought through sub zero windshills and near
zero visibility. So a little bit about the terrain. Pike's
National Forest over one million acres across central Colorado, climbing
from the dry foothills west of Denver to the high
alpine ridges of Mosquito and Front Ranges. The landscape around

(10:09):
Hoosier Pass and Fairplay is carved by glaciers and rivers
into narrow valleys and sharp ridge lines. Roads cling to
the mountain sides and drop offs vanish into timbered ravines
that'd be terrifying to drive through in a white out.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Or just even in any kind of snow cover. On
the roads.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Absolutely with slippery low valleys sit around eight thousand feet
dotted with Panderosa pine pander ponder pander Yeah, pana Rosa
is up in Damn Dree Hills. The passes where the
disappearance has occurred rise above eleven five hundred feet right
at the tree line. Where only twisted Crumbholtz trees and

(10:45):
rockfields remain.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I've done something at home that really irritates my wife.
When we have tacos, you say the word Crumholts too much. No,
I've gotten the girls to say Tortilla's. So said, are
we having Tortilla's tonight.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
I'm sure she loves that because it's all three of you, Yeah,
just ganging up on it.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Tortilla's. After a long.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Day at the hospital, he's got to come home to Tortilla's.
All right, The air is then dry. I'm on her
side by the way, because you said, Panderosa pan Rosa
call them Tortilla's. Yeah, pan Rosa to gets some tortillas,
and Tortilla's So the air is thin, dry, and brutally
explosed to the wind. Hazards for anyone hiking the area
include steep switchback to narrow passes that ice over in minutes,

(11:31):
hidden mine shafts and old timber cuts relics of the
Colorado's mining era avalanche shoots on the southern approach to
Hoo's your past slabs can break loose after even a
few inches of snow. Sparse cell signal, which at that
time there was no cell signal signal, So those are
just some of the dangers. And then to add to
that any animals.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Which is a joke.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
So winter in the high Rockies doesn't buzz with life,
it goes very quiet. Most wildlife has migrated downslope are
gone to ground, leaving the forests still and eerie. Large
mammals that remain active alcan mule deer herded in the
lower valleys around Fairplay and Blue River. Their tracks are
some of the few signs of movement in the deep
snow mountain Lions year round residents that shadow deer herds

(12:18):
rarely seen but perfectly adapted to the timberline slopes, coyote
and red foxes. They are common scavengers, their yips and
track cuts through the silence of the snowfields, and black
bear they're in hibernation this time of year, unlikely to
be encountered. So other hazard jude face, hypothermim frostbhite obviously
and negative twentyre spaar in height with wind, exposed skin

(12:38):
can freeze in minutes. Numbness comes long before pain, white
outs and disorientation. A blizzard can erase every landmark, headlights,
flashlight beams bounce back off the walls of white so
even short walks off the road become mazes. And if
that's not enough, avalanches and snow slab breaks, So south
facing slopes of Hoosier Pass and Mosquito Range build unstable layers.

(13:01):
A passing truck, a skier, even a gust can trigger
a slide. And then, as we said, old mind shafts
thin air isolation and delayed rescue, so when storms come
close the passes, it can take hours even days before
search teams reach remote sites. Radios fail, batteries dive fast
in the cold nighttime conditions. In January, darkness falls before

(13:23):
five pm, temperatures plummet another twenty degrees after sunset, and
the sound carries for miles, wind moaning through the timberlines,
distant cracking ice, and nothing else.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Pretty eerie. Yeah, it's like, just don't be out there.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, and January sounds unless you're filming a TV show
about surviving out there.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yes, don't need to be a air grills. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Well he even goes to hotels ye in between takes
from what I hear, Yes, so that will make more
people man. So some tips respect the altitude and the cold.
Even season hikers underestimate eleven thousand foot winter terrain.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
The air's thin.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Dehydration comes fast and hyperthermia comes faster. Move slowly, hydrate
often take deliberate rest stops. You burn calories and water
far quicker than you realize. Layer like your life depends
on it, because it does. Base layer. You want moisture
waking wool or synthetic mid layer, fleece or down for insulation,
and an outer shell that is waterproof and wind proof.

(14:17):
Cotton kills once wet. It drains heat from your body
ten times faster. Do not wear cotton no mind your extremities.
Bring insulated gloves and mitch shells. Frostbite often starts in
the fingers chemical hand until warmers can buy you hours
of safety. Keep spare dry socks in a waterproof bag.
Changing them can prevent frostbite and trench foot.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I would say packing extra dry socks on any backcountry
hiking trip is like the biggest thing you could do
for comfort.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
I was gonna say, besides safety, just comfort, Yeah, like
the little bit of cut Like what if you can
keep your feet happy longer? Yes, you don't realize how
important that is till you do.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Say, after hiking all day, even if it's not that
cold out and you go through water, your feet are
gonna sweat and your socks are gonna be wet and damp.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, and I know I get made fun of this.
I love my crocs. Not for winter, no, but like
they weigh nothing. I clip them the outside of my bag.
And when you get to camp, yeah, you can just
put your bear feet in there. It gets wind on them,
you walk around, it's just lovely. Joe puts his crocks on,
gets somewhere. My crocks right now, it's frappacinos. These are

(15:24):
the ones I bring hiking too. It was a late
night and I was like, you know, I'm just wearing
my cross.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
If they're listening, we're open to sponsorships. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
They're the perfect camp shoe. Yeah, you can't hike in them, No,
they would be. But if you're at you set up
camp and you're just bumming around, you can hang your
socks up, just have your bare feet in there, their protection.
Put them in sport mode. Yeah, and then you're all
good to go. And they weigh nothing. You clip them
the outside of the bag. There's there's no, wait, all right,
I'm getting off the crocs. Now gear for survival, not comfort.

(15:51):
Trucking poles double as probes for hidden drifts or holes.
Always carry a map, compass and GPS if you can
foam batteries die and subs your attempt, so just be
prepared to not rely.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
On that pack.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
An emergency bivvy space blanket and high calorie snacks nott
chocolate and jerky. So that's where you want to get,
like the prepackaged stuff that's just loaded with calories. Yeah,
have a headlamp and extra batteries. Again, darkness comes before five.
Know the snow avoids slopes steeper than thirty degrees after
fresh snowfall, that is avalanche country. Stay to ridgelines or

(16:24):
timbered terrain where snowpack is more stable. Carry and know
how to use an avalanche beacon, probe and shovel if
venturing off established trails. So navigation hazards. As we said
in a white out, even experienced hikers lose orientation within
minutes because you're just walking in a sea of white.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
You can't see anything.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
If you can see, you want to use trees or
rocks as visual anchors mark waypoints. On GPS frequently, if
you lose the trail, stop moving and reorient before continuing.
So there's been several times I've been up in the
rockies where i just tucked down behind a big boulder
to shield for the wind, and I've sat for an
eye and you just wait and then it clears up.

(17:02):
You get a clear sky and you can see again.
It's like not worth losing your course.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, We've said many, many times, the worst thing you
do once you realize you lost is to continue wandering around.
The best thing to do is stop wherever you're moving.
If you can figure out where you are, if you
have a map, topographic map, any kind of navigation device,
and can reorient to yourself, you know that's better. But
continuing to just wander around once you lost just makes

(17:26):
it harder for searchers to find you.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
You know what a great way to think about it
is the quicker you stop, the closer you were to
being on track.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
So if you do what we always tell you to,
which is someone knows your itinerary and your plan, Yeah,
the less you wander off.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Course and more likely you'll be found. That's the whole
point of stopping. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
So it's not oh, try and get to this area.
It's no, They're going to be looking on your route first,
So you want to be as close to that route
as possible.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
I mean, if you are near like a flowing river
that has clearings on each side of the bank, it
might make sense to walk down to the river and
then stay put.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, because you're like within Eyeshow so you're not liking
the trees. Yeah, so that you would.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Be spotted from drones and helicopters. But yeah, wandering around
is the worst thing. You're continuing to move, move, move,
move if you don't know where you are and you're gonna,
you know, if you're gonna be out there extended, like
a few days, you just burning calories. Absolutely, if you
just hunger down and don't move, you're actually conserving shelter,
shelter and conserve. Yeah. All right, So Mike tell us

(18:25):
about Bobby Joe. We have two subjects in this episode.
So the first one is Bobby Joe Oberholtzer. She was
approximately born in nineteen fifty two, date missing January sixth
of nineteen eighty two. She was a female, age twenty nine.
Body description Caucasian female. She was physically fit, described as

(18:49):
outgoing and friendly. She was five foot three, one hundred pounds.
She had blonde strawberry hair, blue eyes, no tattoos or
distinguishing marks publicly noted often wore long hair, typically bundled
under winter hats during the season, and this is some
of the reported clothing gears. She was last seen in

(19:10):
so blue ski jacket, wool sweater and jeans, brown boots,
blue backpack, wool gloves, brass key hook slash ring and
this was crafted by her husband, Jeff for self defense purposes.
Personality wise, she was described by friends as independent, warm,
and adventurous. She was known for outdoorsy lifestyle and strong

(19:31):
social circle. In Breckinridge and Alma. She was considered a
very responsible and reliable. She rarely missed check ins with Jeff.
She loved the mountain life and embraced the small town
community spirit. And I've got the description kind of what
we're looking at in the name of the pictures. So, yeah,
this is Jeff and Bobby. Yeah, so Joe Is and

(19:55):
Joe listeners have actually said they appreciate when I described
the pictures the ones that are listening. Oh, so I
didn't say that I didn't appreciate it. No, you made
fun of me one time for describing what was on
the screen.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Not describing what was on the screen, describing what I
was doing.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh okay, Well, on the screen we have pictures of
Bobby and a nut and other interesting things about part
one of the case. So medical issues. None publicly reported
occupation hobby. So she was a receptionist at a real
estate office in Breckenridge. She enjoyed skiing, hiking, mount and

(20:34):
mountain living. She was engaged in the local bar and
community scene common among Breckinridge residents at the time her
experience in wilderness. She was described as highly experienced with
the local terrain, regularly commuted over Who's Your Pass, and
she was familiar with snow travel and winter driving and
hitch hiking conditions experienced in this location. So she lived

(20:57):
in Almah for several years, frequently crossed the pass for
work and social outings in Breckenridge, and she was very
comfortable and familiar with the risks of high country weather
and remote travel routes. I'm sure most residents of these
mountain towns would have a similar profile as her. You
live there, you're dealing with you know the area and
you know how it all works. Yeah. So the other

(21:19):
subject of our case is a net. She was approximately
born in nineteen sixty went missing on January sixth of
nineteen eighty two. She was a female, age twenty one.
Body description Caucasian female, petite athletic build, described as pretty
and quiet with a shy demeanor. She was five' three
one hundred and two, pounds brown, hair brown. Eyes other

(21:41):
distinguishing characteristics nothing really. Noted she was described as having a,
calm kind presence and a soft. Voice reported clothing at
the time of her disappearance were dark, pants jeans or work,
trousers heavy, wintercoat woolf, sweater winter, boots orange booty, socks,
purse and prescription medication from a recent doctor. Visit and,

(22:05):
personality she was known to friends as, kind, gentle and hard.
Working she was an independent young woman who Loved colorado's
mountain life in snow. Country she was shy but, friendly
often trusted people too, easily accordingly according to, family and
she was described by coworkers as a type of person
who had never turned down helping someone medical. Issues we

(22:27):
don't know why she visited the, doctor but she might
have had a possible minor illness or maybe some type
of prescription. Renewal nothing chronic was reported her. Occupation she
was a housekeeper at The Holiday inn And frisco by.
Day she was a cocktail waitress At breckinridge by. Night
she had moved To breckinridge From Sioux, City, iowa in

(22:48):
nineteen eighty, one just seeking independence and. Adventure she enjoyed, photography, hiking,
skiing experience in the. Wilderness she it was reportedly very
limited experience in deep back, country but familiar with mountain
town travel and snow conditions from living In Summit, county
and she was likely accustomed to a short distance hitchhiking

(23:09):
between work and.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Home, okay SO i mean she's lived in the. Area
she understands what it's like in the.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Winters one of the things that amazed me about, this
and maybe people that live in some of these mountain
towns are at in this that, time but hitchhiking was so.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
PREVALENT i think it was more prevalent back. Then BUT
i could totally see that BECAUSE i think about even
when we go out to national, Parks, yeah we see
hitchhikers and people like just looking for a ride like
up a road or. Whatever SO i don't feel like
that'd be that uncommon out. THERE i think it's uncommon
to us because we're kind of city.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Slickers, yeah AND i MEAN i just went trust picking
anyone up these. Days, yeah but, yeah it just kind
of surprised. Me like hitchhike to and from, work and
pretty much it is like their uher back, then it was.
Hitchhiking it's.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Wild there's no cabs, PROBABLY i, mean, YEAH i don't, know,
well and you have people who understand how to drive
in that. Area, yeah so you're just if someone's going
one way and you air between two, towns they're going that.
Way they're not going to stop anywhere. Else it's, like,
hey CAN i hop in with? You, YEAH i don't.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Know it just kind of surprised me Because i'm in
this day and. AGE i feel like it would be
pretty dangerous to hitchhike or pick pick hitchhikers, up depending
on where you.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Live you, Know uber is kind of like hitchhiking kind.
Of it's not hard to become An uber, driver.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
No but you still have to have like some kind
of account in.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Identification but think about it really think about. It what
do you need to become An uber? Driver a driver's? License,
yeah and like no prior criminal. History, yeah so right,
now what do you need to be a guy giving
someone to ride in the?

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Car you have a driver's? License, YEAH i mean, YES
i mean the bar is a little. LOWER i don't
know where we're going with.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
This, Yeah i'm just saying it's it's kind of we're
just digitally hitch hiking down and calling it something.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Different you have and pain for.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
It, yeah obviously you're tied to the person they know
who did it like, that but you're still.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Hopping in the car with a complete. Stranger, yeah it's.
True so, anyway go. On sometimes they are weird more than. Sometimes.
Yeah SO i actually Did. UBER i Drove uber for
a little. While. Really, yeah, yeah, yeah you're the. Guy
he really creeps me. Out, NO i picked UP i
will after some Episode patron episode to talk about some

(25:23):
of the PEOPLE i interacted. With, oh we.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
DRIVING i might want to start doing that when my
kids move, out just for. Fun, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
All, right all right to the. Timeline here we. Go sorry,
Everybody sorry, Everyone we'll cut all that. Out, no we.
Won't so it is nineteen seventy, Seven Bobby joe Married
jeff and moved To, Alma, colorado Near. Breckenridge she worked
as a, receptionist LIKE i, said at a real estate
company and often hitchhiked to. Work november nineteen eighty, One,

(25:54):
jeff husband Of Bobby, joe gave a net a ride
while she was hitchhike In breckrage and provided her with
his appliance repair business. Cards so small. World, Oh i'm
sure there was not a lot of people in those.
Towns But, jeff who is the husband Of, bobby also
gave a net a, ride which and then they both

(26:14):
end up going. Missing, hmmm, okay all, right so stop
alluding to. Things i'm not alluding to, anything all. Right
IT'S i, mean this was so this was a huge.
Case it's gonna zoom in On jeffins some people. Listening
i'm not gonna give away, anything So, JOE i don't
need to hear. It but some people listening have probably

(26:37):
heard of this case because it was a very big
case for, many many. Years that's ALL i will, say all,
right and we will all get into that here in
the next part. Two So january, sixth nineteen eighty. Two it's,
morning possibly around seven to fifteen. Am Bobby, joe LIKE i,
said who is a twenty nine year old free spirited

(26:58):
woman who lived In, almond Color out with her Husband,
jeff left home and hitchhiked to her job as a
receptionist In. Breckinridge she carried a large brass clip with
a hook and ring That jeff had handmade for her
as a self defense. Tool that, day she actually received
a promotion at work and planned to celebrate with friends
after her. Shift it's Now january sixth of nineteen eighty.

(27:22):
Two it's around noon or it's around four thirty to
four forty five. Pm, annett who is a twenty one
year old From Sioux, City iowa who had recently moved To,
colorado worked as a housekeeper at The Holiday an In,
frisco and then she would head on over To, breckenridge
where she worked as a cocktail. Waitress so she finished

(27:43):
her housekeeping shift at The Holiday, inn and then she
visited a doctor's office and then hitchhiked to a drug
store In breckinridge to pick up the. Medication so she
was last seen about four thirty four forty five talking
to an unidentified dark hair woman inside the drug. Store
this was actually during a pretty bad blizzard That joe

(28:05):
even mentioned in the summery where the temperatures got down
to minus twenty and this is when she began a
hitchhiking home towards her house In Frisco Blue. River so
it Is january sixth of nineteen eighty. Two it's around
six twenty to six twenty one. Pm Bobby joe calls

(28:26):
her Husband jeff from The Village pub In, breckenridge saying
she was having drinks with friends to celebrate her promotion
and would be home soon as she had arranged a.
Ride it's Now january sixth of nineteen eighty, two same,
day but it's around seven thirty to seven fifty. Pm
Bobby joe left the pub with friends and began hitchhiking

(28:47):
home Towards alma via The Hoosia. Pass this would be
the last confirmed, sighting so it's now midnight on the same.
Day jeff wakes up at home home In almah after
falling asleep WATCHING, tv realizing his wife had in, return
so he drives To breckenridge to check with her, friends

(29:08):
who confirmed she had left. Earlier he then tried to
report her missing to The Breckinridge Police, department but officers
told him it was too. Early, obviously you can't report
someone under twenty four, hours and they advised him to,
wait so he returned home. Alone it's Now january seventh
of nineteen eighty.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Two that's got to be nerve. Wracking, yeah like, what
especially in a small town like?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Where what? Happened? Exactly so it's early, morning around seven
forty five. AM a local rancher roughly thirty miles From
breckinridge Found Bobby joe's driver's license and wallet contents scattered
in his, driveway likely blown there by the wind from
the previous night's. Blizzard the rancher Contacts, jeff who immediately

(29:52):
drives towards the. Ranch en, Route jeff Spots Bobby joe's
distinctive blue backpack on the roadside Near hoo's your, pat
along with her right glove and a bloody. Tissue these
discoveries heightened his alarm and prompted immediate. Actions so not
a good. Situation something happened there's the?

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Backpack, YEAH i just had the ranch pulled up AND
i was also playing with the, map so.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah what are we looking at here where she was
last seeing in the?

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Village, yeah, pub and then it just shows the. Corridor,
okay all, right going all, right so it's Now. January
oh there's the. Ranch, yeah that's.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Lit, yeah you can just get an idea of there's nothing. There.
Yeah so It's january, seventh nineteen eighty. Two it's the.
Morning jeff and his friends organize a search, party including
cross country. Skiers Colorado bureau Of investigation agents. Joined they
recovered the brass key, ring WHICH i said was handmade
By jeff for self, defense in a parking lot near your,

(30:52):
pass and found an orange one of the orange socks
which did not belong To Bobby, joe and that was
about one hundred yards. Away january, seventh, still nineteen eighty.
Two there was so we're talking About bobby's. Disappearance annette
also disappeared that same, night but there was kind of
a lack of action for her. Disappearance it wasn't immediately

(31:16):
reported because she lived alone and she had no immediate
family in the area to notice her absence that. Night
so her failure to appear for work at the holiday
In frisco On january seventh raised initial concern among, coworkers
but no formal action was taken until the following. Day
so On january eighth of nineteen eighty, two a coworker

(31:37):
formally reported in that missing to The Frisco Police department
after she failed to show up for her housekeeping shifts
at the holiday in for two consecutive, days which was
very unlikely or unusual for. Her she was very always
good at making her. Shifts and for.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Those that are, listening that's like half a block, away
yeah from the both of them were last. Scene, yeah
SO i know they haven't, confirmed and that's last appearance.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Because a couple of days, late but that's that's. Wild.
Yeah and LIKE i, said when was the net's last?
Contact last scene at four forty five on The oh,
yes she was last seen at the drug.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Store, yeah, yeah approximately at four to forty. Five, yeah
And Bobby joe was at seven point fifty pm on
the same.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Night, yeah so very. LIKELY i WON'T i won't get into. It,
well and if you zoom, Out Bobby joe would have
been going To alma so down here down there In
South south and A net would have been hitchhiking To,
Frisco so going. North the interesting thing is everything seems

(32:41):
to be culminating around the. Pass even though one was
supposed to be going one, way one was supposed to
be going the other. Way so it's. Interesting just keep
that in. Mind, Okay so got it, Registered got it,
registered all. Right so obviously on the, seventh LIKE i, Said,
Bobby joe was off alarm. Bells with her, disappearance they

(33:02):
were starting to find things of hers out on the
roads near the. Pass there's the key chain thing that
her husband made that was also like a self defense. Tool,
yeah and then this sock and then, yeah that was
one of the socks that was. Found and THEN i
THINK i have a picture of the glove in. There, yeah,

(33:22):
yeah there it, is, Okay, yeah but, yeah, interesting. We'refining
we're starting to find pieces of clothing and stuff from
these people that were there missing and finally on the
eighth but that is formally reported as. Missing this prompted
police to begin tracing her last known, movements focusing on
her visit to The brockenridge drug store around four thirty

(33:44):
to four forty five pm On january, sixth where a
witness later recalled that she was last seen speaking with
an unidentified dark haired. Woman the police Contacted annette's, family
including her Sisters Cindy french And, karen via phone call
that provided no specific details about her. Disappearance hearin began

(34:06):
organizing relatives to travel To colorado to assist with the.
Search it's Now january ninth of nineteen eighty. Two authorities
noted potential similarities while probing the case and learned Of annett's,
disappearance and Then jeff was the husband Of, bobby was
actually questioned about both of their. Disappearances, unfortunately so now

(34:28):
It's january ninth To july third of nineteen eighty. Two
unlike the rapid discovery Of Bobby joe's, Belongings annett's case
saw no immediate. Breakthrough search efforts were limited by the
harsh winter, conditions including deep snow and subzero, temperatures which
made it difficult to comb remote. Areas police in volunteers

(34:50):
conducted periodic searches in The, Breckenridge frisco, area focusing on
roads and trails and that might have taken while, hitchhiking
but no significant clues like personal belongings were found during this.
Period her family including her Sister sinny And. Karen karen
remained In colorado for some, time assisting with inquiries and

(35:11):
distributing missing persons, flyers but the trail grew cold as
the weeks turned to, months and the lack of physical
evidence and rural expansive terrain posts significant. Obstacles so we'll
get into theories from the time period of what people thought.
Happened And i'm going to Ask joe his thoughts on,

(35:34):
this all, right because he does not know this.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Case, YEAH i was gonna say it before BECAUSE i asked.
QUESTIONS i wonder if people don't understand that a lot of,
times most of the, time almost every TIME i come
into this thing, raw SO i can ask questions like
the listeners would. Ask So i'm hearing the story also with.
You So joe doesn't know the. CASE i didn't know
the case BEFORE i researched, it which is kind of.
Shocking so we'll get into. Theories so the first theory

(36:00):
that people were talking about at the, Time hold, on,
here did you lose?

Speaker 2 (36:05):
It my mouse stopped? Working, okay so it was accidental
accidental exposure. Theory so this theory goes when both women
went missing during one of the harshest storms of the.
Winter some locals and even some of the early investigators
suspected they had simply been caught in the blizzard and
died of exposure or or. Disorientation boom. Boom why this

(36:27):
theory Worked at the, time so temperatures were, Freezing it
was minus twenty windshills were minus, forty blowing blinding. Snow
the pass is frequently closed during the winter because of
drifting snow can even trap experienced. Locals both women were
known to hitchhike and could have been dropped off short
of their, destinations and without any immediate evidence of foul.

(36:50):
Play authorities treated exposures the most likely explanation for at
least the first twenty four hours of their. Disappearance i'll be,
honest that's not a crazy way to Lean, yeah in
a small, town, like the odds of a terrible crime
happening is probably rare or is rare compared to, That
SO i wouldn't fault them for potentially thinking that right. Away,

(37:11):
yeah spent first twenty four hours with that kind of bad, Weather,
yes not out of the realm of. Possibility, yeah why
this theory kind of falls, apart and why it did
fall apart pretty quickly during the investigation and search was
the amount of personal belongings found scattered near the. Pass driver's, license, backpack,
glove tissue with, blood And Bobby joe was familiar with

(37:34):
the pass and unlikely to have misjudged the route that,
badly so that's one. Theory second theory that was getting
thrown around was hitchhiker abduction or local driver. Theory so
as soon as both women were confirmed to have been
last seen hitchhiking south Of breckenridge within hours of each,
other investigators began suspecting a single driver or serial predator

(37:55):
would pick them. Up so why does this theory potentially?
So hitch hiking was routine In breck The breckenridge ski,
community so predatory driver could have easily offered rides without.
Suspicion witnesses Placed Bobby joe and A nett at similar
locations the main street, area heading Toward alma And. Frisco
joe hit that up on the. Map they put the

(38:17):
less than a week or less than a block away
from each.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Other, yeah that that's the wild thing Is WHEN i saw,
that my initial thought was like, okay one person picked
both them. Up, yeah and use the storm as, hey
get in, Here i'll get you where you need to. Go,
yeah and they would BE i would, imagine very willing
if the wind chills that bad to jump in with
someone who's, like, yeah i'll give you a.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Ride and if you hitchhike every, day you hitchhike every. Day,
yeah you're just it's their normal mode of transportation and
nothing bad has. Happened you're very you, know like whoever says,
Yeah i'll take, you like, sweet let's, go.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Especially in those conditions if you're out and it's freezing
and someone's like getting this warm.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Car. Yeah it's not saying it was the right. Decision
i'm just SAYING i understand. It it makes. Sense. Yeah another
reason and why this theory held some weight was there
were no reports of mechanical failure distress that would suggest
they left vehicles. Voluntarily and LIKE i, said the close
timing in proximity led to talk of A South Park
highway killer through that, turn though that term was never

(39:16):
official suspects at the, time So, jeff the husband Of Bobby,
joe was considered initially because he was last to See
Bobby joe alive and he was one of the few
people that discovered her belongings out in the. Woods but
then they unidentified local drivers known for offering rides to,
Hitchhikers so they were questioning people in the community that

(39:37):
were very frequently picking people. Up, yeah they're just uncovering every.
Rock it's small.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Towns i'm sure they know all the usual suspects Of,
Yeah i'm not saying like the bad, people but just,
oh these people are known for giving hitchhikers.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Rides, yeah and even early tips included truckers passing through
ON us two eighty five And colorado, nine so they
were even trying to track down any biggerg that were
going through the. Areas there's another theory that people called
the two separate incidents. Theories so this is pretty much
what it. Sounds it's each woman vanished under similar circumstances

(40:10):
but from slightly different Towns breckinridge Versus, frisco and there
was no evidence linking them at the. Time so another
theory was a serial offender or a transient killer. Theory
some detectives floated the idea of a passing serial, offender
possibly a truck driver drifter targeting women Along mountain highday.
Highways colorado in the nineteen seventies and early eighties had

(40:33):
seen multiple unsolved hitchhiker Murders Clear, Creek, jefferson And Larimer. Counties,
okay maybe it was more common THAN i, thought not
outside the realm of, possibilities so the case's proximated At
interstate seventy made traveling offender. Plausible locals also made a
lot of sightings of out of state plates at the
time and unfamiliar trucks in. Town but you, know there

(40:55):
was no physical evidence tied to any transient or trucker
to the, scene and weather conditions made it unlikely anyone
unrelated to the region was even on those back roads
at that.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
TIME i was wondering THAT i was going back and
forth in my head about if someone who's gonna abduct
people would look at that as an, opportunity or if
it was bad enough where even people like, that it's,
Like i'm not from, Here i'm not going.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Anywhere, YEAH i mean that's a good. Point, well which
one do you, think?

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Like BECAUSE i feel like that wouldn't be opportunistic because
you risk being caught in snow drifts or, like, yeah
like you risk not being able to get away if
you're gonna get in the mind as someone who's gonna
do something.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
HEINOUS i think the weather probably more strongly rules out
someone from out of town if we're going the foul
player out of doing, it just, because like you, said
someone that's not experienced in driving in those conditions could
easily get, stuck, yeah and then get caught like or die.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Themselves that's Where i'm, leaning, so BUT i could be
convinced the other way if someone who knew what they
were talking about told me.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Otherwise, okay well keep, Listening, JOE i will will wrap
up the. Theories you're pretty. Quick another one was domestic or
familiar connection. Theories Because jeff discovered many of the items,
himself he obviously became a prime focus early, on which
is a standard procedure when a spouse reports and finds.
Evidence this initially worked because he had last known the
contact and had opportunity early blood testing couldn't yet exclude,

(42:20):
him and investigators hadn't established a clear alternate, suspect though
eventually over time this theory faded Because jeff passed some
polygraph testing blood on the gloved, unreliable unreliable blood on
the glove didn't match him ONCE dna testing became available
and witnesses Confirmed Bobby joe's upbeat behavior that evening and

(42:44):
no marital. Strife so probably not a family related incident
based on early. Evidence, okay the final couple final theory
here really is lost in the wilderness or voluntary disappearance.
Theories so a few locals speculated and that might have voluntarily,
disappeared perhaps overwhelmed their planning a fresh, start this Very

(43:08):
oh you're, gonna you're. Gonna i'm looking for. Images oh you're.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Gonna you're gonna reck it for, yourself even just by
looking at images Of.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
JEFF i. Wouldn't, okay, okay all, Right, okay that's the one.
Time this is the one, time or makes sense for
you to say What i'm. Doing this is the one.
Time calm down, There.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
JOE i wasn't showing the screen, Yet, NO i WOULD i, okay,
okay all, right all, right final theory almost just just
so you, KNOW i was zooming in on him BEFORE
i even searched.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Anything, OH i mean That's, JEFF i, Know, OKAY i
Was that's, fine all, Right i'll get into it AND
i put him in part. One all, Right, Okay, finally last,
theory lost in the wilderness or voluntary. Disappearance LIKE i,
said a few locals might just suggested. This maybe one
reason why it might have worked was she was. Young
she was twenty, one knew the state had recently told

(43:58):
co workers she wanted a. Chain hitchhiking gave her freedom of,
movement so leaving town without notice seemed. Plausible whyatt doesn't
really work and most people didn't think this was the
correct theory, was you, know a net left personal, belongings,
medication and money. Behind she failed to contact any, family
which was uncharacteristic according to her, sisters and the extreme

(44:19):
cold made voluntary travel on foot really. Improbable so those
are all the. Theories, Joe i'm curious to hear what you.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Think, Well i'm going to go right to MY i
won't even call it off the deep, end but My hollywood.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Hunch.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Okay and Like i'm, following like what would be a
plot line that would be a. MOVIE i have a
feeling That jeff had something for a. Net, Okay And
i'm going to go down this road of he was
married To. Bobby joe gave a ride to a net ended.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Up there's some sort of like he fell for.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Her, yeah wanted to have his wife out of the,
picture and a net isn't necessarily on board with. That,
yeah like he makes a, move you, know unalives his. Wife,
yes a net finds out and then he has to
deal with. Her, Okay i'm jumping right to THE i
think it's some like.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
This like a love. Triangle, yes, Yes, Okay, Well i'm
not going to give a theory BECAUSE i researched the
case and know what. Happened but maybe that is what.
Happened MAYBE i just ruined the whole. Show i'd nail. It,
WELL i can't tell. You, okay for everyone, listening there
will be a part two where we explain everything that

(45:38):
happened and we will learn If joe's theory is right or.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
WRONG i, mean they were abducted and. Murdered that's that's
WHAT i. Know that's what that's my theory. Is i'm
going to say that's WHAT i. KNOW i don't actually know,
THIS i Promise i've never heard this case, before But
i'm just going off of there right next to each.
Other there definitely is connected. Somehow the odds of them
bold being randomly picked up going the same DIRECTION i

(46:02):
think is. Low so that's Where i'm, like naturally going
towards there is a connection between all three of, them
and then that's how this.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Happened, Okay, well LIKE i, said we are recording part.
Two it will be released On. Halloween unless you subscribe
to Our patreon, channel it will Be both episodes will
be available probably.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Tomorrow find out how right or WRONG i. Am, Yes
so thanks again for tuning into our. Show we appreciate
you all for listening and sharing locations unknown with your
friends and. Family be sure to like and follow us On, Facebook, Instagram,
Twitter YouTube and. LinkedIn yeah to LinkedIn page still, works
or you can find the videos of each episode down
on LinkedIn on. YouTube, also if you'd like to support

(46:47):
the show, monetarily visit our, website Our facebook store and
buy Some Sweet sweet swag gus. Hat, additionally you can
subscribe to our patron account On YouTube And, apple where
you'll have access to the special events and additional, shows
or get the shows early for paid customers. Only and,
lastly when enjoying the beauty of, nature whether, backpacking, camping
or simply taking a. Walk always remember to leave no.

(47:10):
Trace thanks and we will see you all next. Time.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Yeah

All Episodes

Lost in the Shadow of the Rockies – The 40-Year Mystery - Part 1

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Lost in the Shadow of the Rockies – The 40-Year Mystery - Part 1