Lost in Yosemite - The Disappearance of Joel Thomazin - Locations Unknown

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable and try to piece together what happened. And you
are listening to Locations Unknown. Oh what's up everybody? And

(00:55):
welcome back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm your
co host Joe Erodling with me is always as a
guy who is a polar bear rug on his floor,
but it's not dead, it's just too afraid to move.
Mike vander Bogart.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you, Joe, and thank you once again to all
of our loyal listeners for tuning in. My voice is
finally almost back. It's almost bad, almost back. We're almost there.
You sounded good going on four weeks now it's wild.
So just before we get going, here a couple of announcements,
so new Patreon shoutouts. Thank you to Lauren Johnson and

(01:28):
Philip Van Doren for supporting the show. Quick note for
any Patroon supporters that are do a hat, we are
out of our old hats and we're currently they.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Stop making them, or at least for the supplier like
that brand, because he represented a bunch of different styles yeah,
and that one he said just never came back after.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I'm I'm currently working on getting new hats sourced
and we will get those out to all of you
that are owed one soon.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
As soon as we get which also means the original
hat are gonna be going up in value every single day.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yes, so we will be launching a new store.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
We got We've got an unworn pink one.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's faded though, it's more like tan.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
All right, you know, I'll take it out of the
window now and this could be like auctioned off for
charity or something there. You know, we're really famous, yeah right,
all right.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
So yeah, we're gonna have a new We're launching a
new store soon, real quickly, so a lot of cool
new merchandise will go up there. And if you're a
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Speaker 1 (02:36):
We'll cost plus shipping. Yes, we're not paying shipping.

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No.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
If you want to call the show, leave a voicemail
or text us. I promise this time, Joe, I'll show
you all those pictures from that guy who's texting me.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Right today, oh today, Well for two episodes. Now I've
said I'll show you after the show, because let's do
it on patren Okay, I don't think we can. Let's
not show. We won't.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
We'll talk about it.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
We'll show it at the live show. Yeah maybe I
don't know. I five permission. Oh really?

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah? All right, So well we'll figure this all out later,
and if you're a Patron listener, you'll hear it later.
And if not, go run and sign up.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
But uh yeah call two eight three nine one six
nine one three. We've already been getting a lot of
voicemails and texts for our live show.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Awesome, so I'm so excited. Do not tell me about
any of them.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
I haven't looked at it. I mean the text I
unfortunately see him, but the voicemails I don't.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
So.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, we're doing a big live show on the twenty
third because we are getting booted out of our studio
because they're turning our building into apartments. So we are
in the process of locating our next studio yep. But
to celebrate all the fun we've had here, we're going
to be doing a live stream for hours on the
twenty third of April.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Twenty third of April. It's gonna be awesome.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
We'll probably start at like five or six o'clock our time.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
And he's going to be there.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, we still have to let Evan know he's going
to be there.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yep. So he's in. Yeah, he's one hundred percent in.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
And we've got a lot of other surprises and fun
stuff for that. So stay tuned for more details. If
you want to support any of the shows on our network,
go listen to Peanut Butter Mountain Podcast, Off the Trails,
The Weirdos, We Know Who runs this park and Crime
Off the Grid.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
More to come soon.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
And finally, if you want to support our show, you
can support us through Patreon, YouTube memberships, premium subscriptions on
Apple or Speaker.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Or go to our website. We've got a peel box
you can just send envelopes of cash.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, thanks, burlap sacks of money.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes. Other than that, any updates from you, Joe, no, sir?
All right, all.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to explore
locations unknown. September twenty one, an experienced outdoorsman planned a

(05:02):
solo hike in Yosemite's rugged hetch Hetchy Wilderness. He planned
a hike above O'Shaughnessy Dam, where he intended to fish
at the remote Lake Eleanor. After he never returned, a
massive search began. Did he drown or get lost in
the dense wilderness. Join us this week as we investigate

(05:23):
the disappearance of Joel thomasin So Joe.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
So, Mike, this is the sixth case we've covered now
in Yosemite.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh, just pretty crazy to think that is pretty crazy thing.
So it's a very visited park, so I get it.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, and also kind of it seems like a hotbed
for disappearances. It's one of the most popular parks in
the country, so not surprising that a lot of the
cases are from here.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
But I mean there's that other one of the hetch
Hetchy Reservoir. Yeah, it was in the reservoir right for
hedchhatch Hetchy. Yeah, it was that area.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Though.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
I actually towards the end, I'm going to go into
the other cases a little bit, and I actually have
the mileage from where this guy went missing to the
other disappearances.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
All right, I'm excited. Yes, So, as we said, it's
at the Yosemite National Park hetch Hetchy Wilderness area along
the trail near the O'shannessee Dam O'Shaughnessy dam. It's in California.
It was established in October one of eighteen ninety and
sees around a four million visitors per year. A little
habitation history of the area. Around three thousand to four

(06:49):
thousand years ago, Indigenous peoples first settled in and around
the Yosemite Valley, living in the Yosemite Valley during the
warm months and migrating to lower elevations during the winter.
They were primarily hunter gatherers. They fished, hunted deer, harvested acorns,
and gathered native plants. They utilized controlled burning practices to
manage forest and meadows, promoting ecological health and easier hunting.

(07:13):
The first documented European American to entry into Yosemite Valley
occurred in eighteen fifty one during the Mariposa Battalion Expedition,
leading to significant disruption and displacement of the native populations.
So here's some interesting facts about Yosemite National Park. Yosemite
is one of the few places where you can regularly
see a moonbow, a rainbow that forms at night in

(07:36):
the midst of waterfalls under a bright moon. I feel
like I've we talked about Moonbos before.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah, I mean we've covered this park.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Now this is the six times, sixth time we've probably
talked about Moonbos.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
But there's a lot of people who are now listeners
who didn't know there were moonbows, yeah, or forgot about
Moonbos or forgot about it, and now you're remembered, So
you're welcome. Yosemite Valley was shaped largely by glaciers during
the Ice Age. Massive glaciers carved out iconic features such
as Al Captain half Dome and the valley itself in
El Capitan. El Capitan each February, horsetail fall famously appears

(08:12):
as a glowing firefall when conditions align perfectly, illuminating the
waterfall at sunset and brilliant orange in red. Yosemite Valley
is considered the birthplace of modern rock climbing, attracting climbers worldwide.
El Capitan is a premier climbing location, with routes like
the Nose, one of the most famous climbing routes globally.

(08:35):
During the cold spring mornings, Yosemite Creek and other streams
experience frazzle ice. It's a slushy, flowing ice that creates
unique surreal ice formations in the park. Yosemite's network of
high Sierra camps allow hikers to traverse the backcountry carrying
minimal gear, staying overnight in remote locations with comfortable amenities,

(08:56):
a unique experience not common in many wilderness areas. That
is called glampang. In the early nineteen hundreds, Yosemite was
protected by African American buffalo soldiers from the US Army.
They were some of the park's earliest stewards, constructing trails
and protecting the region before the National Park Service was founded.
That's awesome. I didn't know about that. We should do

(09:18):
an episode on that. In depth description of the features,
we're going to go into. The climate. Yosemite experiences a
diverse range of climates due to its varying elevations, ranging
from about two thousand feet to over thirteen thousand feet.
The climate significantly varies by elevation in season, so the
lower of elevations, or Yosemite Valley at four thousand feet,

(09:39):
will see a Mediterranean climate. It's hot, dry, average heise
around eighty five to ninety degrees fahrenheit, and that's in
the summer. The winter are more mild days, cold nights,
occasional snow, and sees about thirty six inches of rainfall
year at mid elevation, so we're talking about hetch hatching
now at thirty eight hundred feet. Hot summer's moderate winters

(10:01):
with occasional snow. Higher elevations above seven thousand feet are
cooler summers harsh winters with substantial snowfall up to ten
to twenty feet annually. In winter December to February, snowfalls
common at elevations above five thousand feet. Yosemite Valley sees
occasional snowstorms. It's usually from December through March. Spring is

(10:23):
April through May, so snow melt leads to peak water
fall flow. Wildflowers bloom at lower elevations in April through
May as well. In summer June to August, we'd see
warm to hot temperatures with occasional afternoon thunderstorms. Seeing a
thunderstorm from Yosemite Valley must be the most beautiful thing ever. Yeah,

(10:43):
like a good thunderstorm. Oh, that'd be amazing, peak visitation
and high risk for wildfathers. Wildfires happens, of course, it does.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
In summer. You just don't want to be in the chains.
No going up half to home. Yeah, with a storm
coming in, No, no point granite slab. Yes, it's very slippery.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
And you're attached to metal chains. Yeah, just no good.
Autumn September and November, you see mild days, cooler nights,
vibrant fall colors appear around October, and snow may begin
at higher elevations by October as well. So a little
bit about the terrain. Yosemite National Park, spanning approximately twelve

(11:22):
hundred square miles, encompasses a diverse landscape shaped largely by
ancient glaciers, dramatic geological events, and erosion. The park is
renowned for its spectacular granite cliffs, towering waterfalls, dense forest,
lush meadows, deep valleys in high alpine wilderness. The elevation
we said it was at four thousand feet. Let's see here,

(11:46):
we'll talk about the hetch Hetchy area, So that's between
thirty eight hundred and forty five hundred feet. It's very rugged.
It's remote wilderness with steep grant slopes, deep canyons, thick
forest cover and the Hetcheatchy Reservoir. Trails are less trapped
and terrain can be difficult to navigate with rocky or
uneven ground. So this is a place where not a
lot of people are usually going.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, it's less traffic than you know, the Yosemite Valley
and some of those trails.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Was the last guy that we talked about, was he
doing the PCT in this section of it? Because doesn't
a section go right through Hetchetchy like a small bit?
Am I remembering this right? He was kind of an outcast,
old man hermit, remember, and he went missing.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah, I kind of remember that. I thought it was
farther south.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
It might be. I don't know. My memory can be
good or bad. It depends, and if I'm right or
wrong depends on the day. So the High Sierra, it's
the elevation's eighty six hundred to over ten thousand feet.
It's a high alpine region characterized by rolling granite domes,
exposed granite slabs, open alpine metals, scattered forests, and trails

(12:50):
of this elevation are rocky, steep, and exposed. Weather can
change quickly. So some of the other dangers besides what
we just talked about animals are black bears, mule mountain lions, bobcats, coyotes,
not grizzlies, nut grizzlies, red and gray fox. There's two
hundred and sixty species of bird, western rattlesnake, and some

(13:11):
of the other things that are threats. Obviously the steep
training cliffs. You said it yourself. If you're on a
granite slab it starts to rain. Yeah, no, boy, no no,
So you can fall from the granite cliffs, loose or
slippery rock. There's tons of water hazards, swift rivers, creaks
and waterfalls, drowning risks at streams, lakes and reservoirs, wildlife encounters,

(13:31):
so the big ones would be the black bear, mountain lions, coyotes.
They're rarely dangerous, but it is possible. And then just
the weather, rapidly changing conditions, especially at the high elevation,
severe thunderstorms, lightning, snowstorms, hypothermia risks, heat stroking the summer months.
So there's just you know, it's a huge park, a
lot of people go there. It has some of the

(13:52):
normal dangers you'd expect at a national park, but I
think with the granite slabs that's unique. I mean, we
hear every year or every other year somebody slides off
half dome. Yeah, just yeah, slips and dies unfortunately.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, it's unfortunate.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Your your plan with that is to probably try to
get to the start of that as early as possible
in the day. Yeah, and try to get up by
half you know, like midday, and then get back down
because you know, storms are usually going to roll in
in the afternoon and as the day goes on, it's
going to get more crowded. So yeah, we you know,

(14:31):
remember when we did Angels landing in Zion up Walter's Wiggles. Yeah,
we started that before the sun even came up. Yeah,
we heard that it got really crowded.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
It did get really crowded too. So alright, Google Earth
has not been working. I'm gonna try and figure this out. Okay,
so but it's been like actually failing miserably.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, well you're figuring that out. I will get into
the character profile, please do so. The subject of Tonight's
case is Joel Curtis Thomisin. He was born August eighth
of nineteen ninety. He went missing on nine September sixth
of twenty twenty one. This would be the date he

(15:16):
was last seen. You'll see some reports state September ninth,
That was the day that he was supposed to come
back out of the wilderness, so his remains have not
been found. He was a male aged thirty one at
the time of his disappearance. He was five foot ten,
one hundred and seventy five pounds. He had blonde hair
hazel eyes. Outside of that, he had no other distinctive scars, marks,

(15:41):
or tattoos.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Clothing and gear he was.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Last seen and so he was pretty well equipped for
this hike. He was equipped with extensive camping gear he had,
so these are some of the items that his family
and officials noted that.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Were with him.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
He had this floppy cloth hats, large yellowish tan kelly backpack,
dark blue green hammock. He had a red and black
camelback style day pack. He had a black and yellow
collapsible camp sync, a bright red inflatable kayak with a paddle.
He had a small collapsible stove.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
He had headlamp.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
He also had a bear resistant food canister, which is
always important when you're hiking in bear country. He had
a bright green mummy style sleeping bag and a fishing
pole with a tackle. So this that's a lot of gear.
So he was you know, well prepared and going out

(16:47):
in September is a you know, not a bad month
to hike Yosemite. It's right after the busy season in
the summer. The weather still isn't you know, be hiking
in like super heat either. Yeah, it's not like I mean,
you could probably experience snow at the higher elevations, but
most likely you're going to be hiking in decent conditions
a little drier that time of year. Yeah, So, you know,

(17:09):
personality wise, Joel was described by everyone that knew him
as an avid outdoorsman who loved nature and adventure. Friends
and family knew him he was. He was also devoted
family man, so he had been married for seven years
and had a two year old son at the time
of his disappearance. His enthusiasm for backpacking and fishing was

(17:32):
well known, and.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
So he knew what he was doing.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, and he was responsible and prepared for, you know,
all of his outdoor pursuits.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
So I would assume he just had a new kid,
He's not going to be doing anything too crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
He seemed like he was, you know, very well prepared.
And he was actually in the military too, So there
were no reports of any medical issues at the time
of his disappearance, and you know, he's a young, healthy,
thirty one year old person, so none of the official
reports listed any you know, medical issues. Professionally, he served

(18:10):
as a civil affairs specialist in the United States Army
Reserve and worked for Sandy Brose Royalty Restoration, which was
a restoration services company in Modesto, California. He was educated locally,
a Sonora Union High School graduate and a Stanislaus State
University alumni alumnus. Outside of work, like I said, his

(18:34):
passions were family and the outdoors. He was an avid
hiker an angler. He would always plan multi day solo
hikes with fishing gear in tow because he liked to
fish along with hikings. So by all accounts, Joel was
experienced in the wilderness and his decision to undertake a

(18:57):
solo trek in Yosemite only indicates his his confidence in
his hiking ability, but is not out of the unusual
for him.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
He's done this.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
In addition, he does have some military background too, so
obviously you know he's physically fit and had some level
of training in navigation.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
No, not only was he in the outdoors, he probably
had like survival experience stuff they teach you in the military,
so like he also has that background as well.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
So and like I said, he he packed you know,
an extensive amount of gear for this hike, so you know,
well prepared. We're not sure if he was familiar with
this specific location in Yosemite, but he was familiar with
the Sierra Nevada region just you know, from growing up there.

(19:49):
So yeah, you know, the trips route to hatch Hatchie
and Lake Eleanor is somewhat off the main tourist path,
but Joel specifically planned to fish in a remote lake,
indicating likely researched it prior to going out on the hike.
So I think it's safe to say he was experienced,

(20:12):
maybe not specifically in this location, but in general, you know,
more experienced than a lot of the subjects we've covered
on the show before. So jumping right into the timeline.
Before he even left for his hike, Joel did inform
his family of his intended route so Hatchatchie to Lake

(20:34):
Elenar and back and his estimated returned eight, which was
September ninth. Unfortunately, he did not file an official itinerary
with the NPS. But at least he let his family
know where he was going. So that's a big deal
for search and rescue, Like they know what he intended
to do. Yeah, Versus we've covered some cases where they
have no clue that someone say I'm gonna go hiking

(20:57):
in Yosemite and then they go missing. Ye are like, well, yo,
sementis twelve hundred square miles, Like where do we start? Yeah,
So at least with this case, he let his family.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Know where he was going. So I'm going to see
if all trails because there is a trail here, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Going from the dam. That's O'shawnessee Dam.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
And where's Lake Eleanor right over here over there?

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, So I mean that's that's no small distance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
So we're going to go right to September sixth of
twenty twenty one. Like I said, this was the last
known sighting of Joel so he this is when he
began his solo backpacking trip in Yosemite. He departed from
the hatch Hatchy Reservoir trailhead, and he planned a hike
about nine miles to Lake Eleanor. He was going to

(21:43):
fish there and then return by September ninth, so just
a couple of days. At approximately five pm on the sixth,
a park ranger spotted Joel on the trail above the
O'shaughnessee Dam as he was completing a steep traverse, and
this would turn out to be the last confirmed sighting
of him. So we have we have a sighting from

(22:04):
a park ranger that he was in the park, so
we know at a minimum he made it into the park,
because we've covered cases where we're not even sure if
they made it into the park, which makes it even
harder to search. So think you don't know the itinerary,
you don't even know if they went to where they
were going. At least this we know that he was

(22:26):
seen on this trail around that dam at five o'clock,
so that is hopeful for the searchers. And like I said,
he was equipped with ample gear, so he was prepared.
It's now September ninth of twenty twenty one. This is
when he was supposed to return. So when Joel did

(22:47):
not return on the ninth as planned, his family grew
increasingly worried. Attempts to contact him were likely unsuccessful due
to limited cell service in the back country. By the tenth,
with no word from Joel, his family contacted Yosemite National
Park authorities to report of missing, prompting initial checks by
rangers before the formal search began on the eleventh, which

(23:11):
is what all the A lot of the sources I
said I've found said that the official search actually started
on the eleventh. It was initially considered that Joel might
have chosen to extend his trip, as he had the
supplies to possibly venture towards nearby wilderness destinations like Cherry
Lake or even the Grand Canyon of the Tulami River,

(23:35):
but this was only speculation. So, like I said, September
eleventh of twenty twenty one was when the kind of
official missing person's alert went out and the search launched.
So this was Saturday, and Yosemiti National Park officially declared
Joel missing. Park officials issued a public alert via news

(23:56):
outlets and social media, urging anyone who had been in
the Miguel Meadow like eleanor or Hetchy areas since September
sixth to contact Yosemite Search and Rescue with any information.
And in these announcements they just reported, you know, basic
statistics about them that I covered in the character profile
like age, heightweight, things like that. At the time, the

(24:20):
plea was widely shared and media outlets like the Associated
Press picked up the story within days, spreading awareness among
the general public. So it's now mid September of twenty
twenty one. Intensive search operations to kind of went into
high gear. At this point, the search evolved over one

(24:43):
hundred personnel, including Yosemite Search and Rescue YOSAR, California Highway Patrol, helicopters,
US Forest Service teams, and local volunteers. This is another
difficult search. Joe kind of went over the terrain of
the hatch Hatchy area very rugged.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, I won't even let me do, uh like make
my own route on existing routes. Yeah, it looks like
it could be like it's like ten miles.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Yeah, it was about nine.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
It's a lot of swetchbacks.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
His it was about nine miles from the trail had
to Lake Eleanor Okay, so they had a pretty good guess. Yeah.
So yeah, like I said, search and rescue teams faced
challenging terrain. So steep, steep cliffs, dense forests.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Very all over this. Yeah, right through here.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Remote water bodies, these are all along Jewels intended route
and beyond, and by late September, you know, mid late September,
the weather, you know, it's gonna start getting cold at night,
occasional rain. This added to the search difficulties and at
this time no evidence of Joel or his gear had
been found yet. So ground crews hiked trails and scanned

(25:56):
off trail areas, while helicopters conducted aerial sweep of the
remote terrain and thermal imaging flights at night. The park
even deployed boats to search along the shoreline of Lake
Eleanor and the Hetchatchy Reservoir in case Joel or his
bright red kayaker in the water. They used specialized resources
like search dogs and drones, following standard search protocols for

(26:20):
missing hikers. Sadly, despite these exhaustive efforts, which included grid
searches of the forest, scanning from the air, and checking
along rivers and lakes, no trace of Joel or his
equipment was found during the initial search, which.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Is kind of puzzling to me.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, I'll go into this in more depth during the theory part.
But he had a lot of gear with them, Unlike
the case we covered last week. Where he kind of
the guy we covered last week went out into the woods.
This guy had a lot of stuff with him, and
the fact that was found in the initial search is

(27:02):
kind of odd. So it's now late September twenty twenty one,
so the search is still expanding, and obviously no clues
have been found yet. So as the days turned into
weeks with no leads, officials brought in the search areas,
so they started considering the possibility that Joel might have

(27:23):
wandered off route or extended his truck. Search teams expanded
into adjacent areas north and east of Lake Eleanor, including
Cherry Lake and as far as the remote Grand Canyon
of the Tuami region, so they're thinking that maybe he
decided to keep hiking to different lakes. By late September

(27:47):
YO seventieth, authorities released detailed maps illustrating the search coverage.
Green lines traced across vast areas to show where individual searchers,
dog teams, and helicopter flights had scoured the wilderness. The
operation by this point involved numerous agencies and volunteers, making
it one of the most extensive search efforts in recent

(28:11):
Yosemite history. However, once again, no clues were found about Joel.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
None of his gear.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Oh there's a picture of I'm assuming his inflatable red kayak.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Now you would think, well I always do this, Well
wait till theories you did it. I know I did.
I'm learning teach the sould dog new tricks.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
So notably, Like I said, none of Joel's gear turned up,
including his bright red inflatable kayak, an item that would
be hard to miss from the air. So this lack
of any physical evidence left searchers baffled and deeply concerned.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, I'm looking at the missing comment from facebook page.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
You want to read some of it?

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, I'll read. I was getting to his possessions. Believed
his Keelty brand yellow and gray backpack, green sleeping bag,
bright red inflatable kayak pictured above. So that was the
correct kayak. Yeah, blue green hammock and tan or blue
zip off pants.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Wow. Tempswere near one hundred yeah wow.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, but you know they he trained in some of
the stuff that was pretty intense. Not saying it can't
you can't succumb to it. But yeah, I'm not getting
into theories. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Now you're doing it, ye, I am okay. So it's
October of twenty twenty one. Oh, so, as the search
entered its second month, the Sierra weather began the shift.
So obviously October hits the weather is going to start
getting pretty narly in the Sierras. And so the first

(29:53):
autumn storm swept through Yosemiti's high country, dusting higher elevations
with snow. Over temperatures dropped, and intermittent rain and snow
made conditions more challenging for both search teams and any
chance of a stranded hiker surviving in the back country.
By this time, with no results, after weeks of difficult searching,

(30:16):
officials made the hard decision to scale back the active search.
So at this time the full se full scale search
missions were tapered off as resources were diverted to other
needs and heavy weather was coming into the region. So
it just makes it even less successful. Like Joe mentioned

(30:37):
during the location profile, this area receives ten to twenty
feet of snow in the winter.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
You never know once you're getting into October November when
one of those big storms is gonna hit.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
So this is actually not as thick as I thought
it might be. This is kind of like halfway yeah through,
zoom out just so you can see where I got
this from.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
So that's yeah, it's pretty sparse up there.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Actually it's not that dense.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, I mean you look, it looks like granite, a
lot of granite rock.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, but I'm saying for like search and rescue because yeah, yours. Yeah,
he went from here to here, and that was one
of the thicker parts of forest.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Interesting, this is I guess I'm surprised because I thought
it might be a little bit thicker. Now now we
only have that one photosphere from this spot.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Can you look at the map from different years to
see if vegetation has changed over.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
The Okay, yeah, what you hears this again?

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Good call.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
So this was twenty he went missing twenty twenty one,
because I mean when we were there, there was a
forest fire going through the area, so I wouldn't be
shocked if some areas were, you know, thick one year.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
And then.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Alright, so here's the dam, here's the lake. So there
was one trail like kind of here. Yeah, so let's
go to twenty those is twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Okay, it's still pretty sparse.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Nineteen.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
It doesn't look like it changes much.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah. Yeah, even going back to two thousand and nine.
Now that looks a little a little thicker too, but
I mean that's so far and that could be resolution
issues too. Yeah, it still seems kind of sparse. A
lot of those are shadows, but so pixelated. You have
any from ninety eight, Wow, it's black and white.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
So yeah, I mean, I guess over the years, it
really the vegetation thickness of the area hasn't changed all
that much. Yeah, and in recent times it doesn't look
like it's changed much here to year, So it's definitely
not the thickest area we've seen for a search.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
No, that's what I was. I'm very surprised by this.
I wish there'd be more photosphere images from in there.
It's literally, that's quite literally the thickest part is where
it's from. And now let's go back there after we
looked at all that, so you can get an idea
of how much less dense it is everywhere else. So
for those listening, we're looking through I mean, major trees

(33:12):
have five to six feet between them. You can see
really far in the distance. I mean there's some brush. Yeah,
trails are a lot better than I thought they would be. Yeah,
for anyone listening, it's definitely not like a if you've
ever been through a pine, is it pines they do
in the rows? Yeah, they do when they plant a
road pine forest and everything's like lined up. It doesn't

(33:34):
look exactly like that, but that's kind of how far
you can see between the trees, just to get an
idea for those just listing, how far you can see
and like fifty to one hundred feet in all directions.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, pretty, And even the vegetation is and this was
in May. Yeah, the vegetation's only coming up about what
four feet? Yeah, so it's not super thick obviously, still.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
For CIRT, we've seen a lot thicker for search and rescue. Yeah, yeah, okay,
all right, let's move on. I've belabored this topic.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
So rangers continued periodic check ins of the area and
remained alert for any new information, and backcountry travelers were
still asked report any sightings of Joel or abandoned gear. Unfortunately,
through the rest of October no new evidence emerged. The
case transitioned from an active search and rescue to a
continuous but limited investigation investigative status, essentially a recovery effort.

(34:29):
Given the elapsed time, so early November twenty twenty one,
two months after Joel's disappearance, like we said, by now,
the formal search was called off no clues, They found
nothing by early November, after the exhaustive search of roughly

(34:53):
at an estimated one thousand square miles of wilderness. Now,
obviously that's a huge amount of area. A lot of
that that is probably just aerial searching, that's not all
on foot. But yeah, you know, so many officials had
eleanor on the sign here.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's even well labeled.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
So you know, so many officials had to acknowledge that
for further large scale search operations were unlikely to yield results.
Joel's family was informed that despite all efforts so we
had ground teams, helicopters, canines, drones and divers, the search
had turned up no signs of Joel or any of
his belongings. Park authorities kept Joel on the act of

(35:33):
missing person's list, meaning rangers would still investigate any new tips,
and giving the length of time with no contactor sightings,
Joel was presumed deceased by the authorities, likely the victim
of an accident or misfortune on.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Excuse me.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
On December fourth of twenty twenty one, the family actually
had a memorial service for Joel. So it was at
this time, with heavy hearts, that Joel's family and community
accepted the.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Reality that Joel probably died.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
From because of something in the Yosemite Wilderness, and a
memorial service was held at a church in Joel's hometown.
Honors life, family, friends, even those who only knew him
through the news, gathered to celebrate the avid outdoorsman, husband
and father. Like I said, Joel left behind his wife

(36:34):
of seven years, Amanda, and their young son, Titus, who
was just two years old at the time. The public
responded with an amazing outpourium support. Joel's sister in law
started to go fund me campaign titled help a Man
in Titus Bridge the Gap to assist the family financially,
and this is largely in part due to a California law.

(37:00):
This law states that a missing person must be unaccounted
for for at least five years before a death certificate
can be issued without a body, and this means that
Amanda still cannot get the death certificate until the earliest
of September twenty twenty six, and jeez, without.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
What I'm assuming like all the military benefits potentially and
all the other.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, without the death certificate, she can't access life insurance
or other benefits. So that's why the GoFundMe was started
just because.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
That sucks. And like I can see why.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, because people would give yous that if well, and
I'm sure there's situations where someone like went missing intentionally
h but still like it sucks.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, I get why why that law is probably in place,
but I also feel bad for it.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
I feel like after that period of time, they should
get like five years worth of if they were paying
every year as like a lump sum, say you're getting
just for a round numbers like one hundred dollars a year.
Obviously it's more than that, but like then after the
five year like get all five hundred at once or
something like maybe.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
They can collect a portion of it every year and
then get like maybe like the I'm just like the
money they're owed goes into some kind of like account
that's you know, still monitored and controlled, and you know
maybe like the family can recover some of that. We

(38:37):
got some window people yelling, what can you see what
they're doing.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I don't know, they're yelling something.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Are they in a car, yes, Describe to the audience
what you see.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
They're they're giving me her hands, I'm giving it back,
and they're saying we love you.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
I think, Ah, a bunch of guys.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I think so, it's all dudes. I try to
get on video, but it wasn't happening so anyway. No,
So yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
I'm just you know, off the top of my head,
like it would be nice if like the family could
get some of that money every year and then say,
like the guy turned out to be committing fraud, you know,
you could like you owe this money back.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, just a percentage to help you and support your
family and like getting around money or something.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
It really stinks.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
There's probably a better way to do it, and they're not. Yeah,
I don't know, but I feel it's not good on
this road. I'll just upset.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I feel I feel really bad for the wife and
as someone who has young kids, like, yeah, you know
children are expensive.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
And uh yeah, it's such an accountant, not anything emotional.
Well nice, I feel it's someone who has kids they're expensive,
or how about someone has kids.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
You feel terrible I already said that.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, we're talking about how she can't get the money. Yeah,
obviously all that other stuff too. Yeah, you make me say,
but I'm cold hearted accountants.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Now you're thinking of logistically why she needs to access
that stuff potentially, you know, and dealing with that on
top of the loss. It's just like insult to injury. Yeah,
it's just really.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
The last thing you want to be dealing with is
money when something like this happens.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yeah, so they need to give her more in a rear.
Good on the community for makeup for the five years
or whatever it is. I mean, good on the community
for supporting her through the GoF on me. I don't
I didn't actually look it up to see what they
were raised. You could actually probably.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I'll do it while you're talking.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Called The Help a Man and Titus Bridge the Gap.
I'm gonna guess they raised one hundred thousand. What's your guess?

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Fifty? Yeah, I hope it's more. Keep going because it
might it might take me a while to find.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
This, Okay.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
So moving into the next year June of twenty twenty two,
so we still had some volunteer search efforts going on.
So in the summer of twenty twenty two, Joel's case
obviously had not been forgotten. In a group of experienced
hikers and members of the High Sierra outdoor community organize

(41:18):
a volunteer search to renew the effort to find any
sign of Joel in a lot of the Just to
mind you, a lot of this information came from forum
posts and Reddit posts from people involved in the search,
so just take that with a grain of salt. But

(41:38):
in one forum post, organizers outlined a plan to retrace
Joel's route from hetch Hetchee to Lake Eleanor and search
additional areas like Laurel Lake, Frog Creek, and the shores
of Lake Eleanor. They timed the search for June twenty
twenty two, hoping that spring snowmelt might reveal clues. For instance,

(42:00):
melting snow or rising creek levels could dislodge equipment or
remains have been hidden. Joel's family was kept in the
loop and even joined on some of the efforts. They
had actively participated in the initial search and rescue operations
and continued to see closure. Over several days, volunteers pains
takingly scoured the backcountry, checking remote corners and water inlets

(42:24):
that official teams might have missed. Sadly, no evidence was
found even after this renewed search by skilled hikers, and
the case remained a mystery. So to the present day,
from his disappearance to now, his case is still listed
as a missing person in the Yosemite National Park and

(42:48):
his disappearance remains unsolved.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
No trace of him.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
None of his gear or clothing has ever been recovered
despite the extensive search. Joel's disappearance has been sited in
broader discussions of missing persons in national parks, including David
Politis his Missing Form one series, which highlights cases of
experienced hikers vanishing your water graned areas. Not going to

(43:15):
go into his books, but you can probably guess what
he thinks. God's his disappearance. I mean you've read his books.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Park officials maintain and open file on Joel, and any
new tip or discovery will be investigated. But more than
three years later, there have been no significant developments.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
So I wanted to get.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Into just briefly before we get into theories. We've covered
what I say, one, two, three, four, We've covered five
different cases before Joel in Yosemite so that was we
covered Stacy she went missing in nineteen eighty one, and

(44:00):
we covered David Morrison nineteen ninety eight, Walter Reinhard two
thousand and two, Michael Allen Fissery two thousand and five,
and George Penza in twenty eleven. So Stacey went missing
twenty two miles from where Joel went missing. Oh wow,
David Morrison went missing nineteen point five miles away from

(44:23):
where Joel went missing. So Stacey went missing in Sunrise
High Sierra Camp. David went missing in Yosemite Valley. Walter
Reinhard went missing in White Wolf, which was only nine
point three miles away. Oh, I forgot to put where

(44:45):
the miles. Michael Allen went missing, but he went missing
in Tiltoll Valley, which you know.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
We else We've forgotten. It just hit me, but made
that one one listener from Australia that asked us to
put kilometers and stuff in. Oh yeah, so next time,
next time.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
And George went missing in the Upper yo Sementy Falls area,
which is about sixteen point eight miles away. So, and
these are just cracking the surface of the cases that
are in Yosemite. The ones that we covered Yeah, there's
more that I plan on covering at some point. This
is just what we've gotten to at Michael Allen, we
actually talked with his sister, So that's an interesting case.

(45:23):
If you haven't listened to that one yet, I urge
you to go back and do our back catalog and
find it.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yep, and then just re listen everything else.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Yeah, while you're at it. I played over and over
and even the background.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, you can actually just put it on. Oh this
little trick to help us grow when you go to
bed at night, just play all of our catalog and
turn the volume down. You don't have to listen to it.
Just let it run. Let it run. There become huge
because we get our just current listeners. Just let our
shows run on repeat.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
All right, let's do this. Our secrets out though, seeming
to get a couple of different cell phones and create accounts.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Cell phone bot farm. Yes, all right, we'll call that out. Nope,
excuse me.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
So getting into theories, I'll go through kind of what
the main theories are, and then I'll I'll toss the
the hot potato to Joe and he can tell us
what he's thinking. So the number one theory that park
authorities believed to happen was a wilderness accident, so park
authorities and search teams officially classified Joel's disappearance as a

(46:31):
likely tragic wilderness accident.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
So so, uh, keep going, okay, keep going? You get
so distracted you as you are incapable of keeping going
into are in the window.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yes, we gots.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
That is the best. Oh, here we go, a fantastic
You've had some pretty rowdy outside people today. Awesome March.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
I know it's because it's warm out. Yeah, when heat
hits the city, people are like outside.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
I mean warm, it's forty. It's warm.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
I was wearing shorts walking my dog in the sun.
You know, people are just saying hi. More often people
are happy. Yeah, well you know what. I always get
this feeling. Me and my wife are talking about this.
We on a walk and it said, like, you you
get this feeling where you get so much joy that
you realize that you forgot what warm weather joy was like.
And it's the most depressing really, like you feel good,

(47:43):
but you're like, why do I live here? Right? One
of those like, oh, I've just been depressed for four months,
Like I haven't seen the sun's Yeah, it's so crumpy.
So yeah, everyone's just twerking in the windows. Yeah, like
I had some why.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
This is some wild outdoor activity or march. Oh, it's fantastic,
more like summerfest activity.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Okay, let's get yes, let's get back at it.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
What park authorities were talking about? Yah?

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah, So they classified Joel's disappearance as a likely tragic
wilderness accident, so fall, drowning, or exposure. Official speculate Joel
might have altered his original route, making search efforts challenging.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
Extends.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
The search has produced no evidence reinforcing the idea of
a sudden accidental scenario.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
But I don't think he would have changed his route
because there's like no other trails.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, I mean, I mean he could have just there's.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
A lot of different trails.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
It.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Well, there's a yeah, but even then we looked at
you saw it's not much.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yeah, like why Yeah, but if he's.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Trying to get to a specific late, especially carrying that
a kayak and carrying out of the gear, you're not
going to take a hard route if you don't need to.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Yeah, no, I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Another very possible theory was accidental drowning. So this was
strongly favored among experts and look speculation due to Joel's
planned fishing trip with an inflatable kayak. Joel's gear, obviously,
we said, included a bright red inflatable kayak. But the
problem with this theory is no one ever found the

(49:14):
kayak if you fell overboard and drowned.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
That's one thing I don't ever remember hearing in his.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
I have a I have a theory on this already.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
I didn't hear anything about him having a life jacket or.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Anything with him, So.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
You know, he could have fallen over and drowned, but
you would think the kayak would then be floating, yeah,
on the surface of the lake, and searchers got out
there pretty quickly. So, and I don't believe those lakes
are emptied by via river. It must be like snowmelt,
you know, keeps those lakes filled. Yep, what was your

(49:54):
theory on the drowning thing?

Speaker 1 (49:55):
I was just wondering. I would agree with there's a
being an inflatable kayak. They're tough, they usually have multiple chambers,
so like if you were to puncture or sink in it,
I'm like, would it still float? And that's kind of
where I'm wondering, if like it got deflated enough, will
it sink And if not, though, is it gonna drift

(50:15):
down into some river or something and then like get
stuck somewhere where you wouldn't find it maybe because if
it was like a normal kayak like that, you're gonna
find that. It's gonna be caught in rocks or something
like that. But I'm thinking like if his got punctured
and deflated, and if he's in the middle of the lake,
like worst case sner, it gets deflated, water starts coming in,

(50:39):
he's got to swim, gets hypothermia, drowns if he's not
wearing like a lifevest or something, and then the kayak
does float somewhere. But because it's inflatable, it gets punctured,
and red is not a very stand out color against
all that stuff, you know, I mean, it's not if
it's deflated and crumpled up. But that's what I'm getting.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
How about this, assuming he is out on one of
those lakes fishing. You know, it sounded like, you know,
he had a portable stove, he had collapsible sink, he
had a lot of gear with him, heavy gear.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Oh, like, he's not going to go out at dayak
with all that cure.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
So you would think logically like or maybe he did.
I mean he sounded experienced, he's done this before. Yeah,
wouldn't you're in a remote area, like I'm not. If
I was at Lake Eleanor and I had some camping
gear with me, I'd probably leave it on shore if
I went out fishing.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
Outside of Lake Eleanor is not that remote. It has
an actual campground, Okay, because it's close to this dam,
which is there's road access, so there's people that can
hike from Cherry Lake and it looks like only a
couple miles to Lake Eleanor.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
So but he would have come in on this on
the that's the east side, Yeah, the east side of
the lake, which would be definitely less crowded. But still,
you know, you have people can hike through this and
you know you got a damn here people, I'm sure
look at it. Actually there's buildings right here. Yeah, so
he would be on this side of the lake.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Even Still, I don't think he would have probably gone
fishing in an inflatable kayak with all of his gear.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Now you have a good point like he would have
set up a base camp in the time.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah, just you would think that if he had drowned
in the lake, and even if his kayak floated away deflated,
some of his gear would have been left on shore somewhere.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
And so that's just I.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Was thinking of that when they were talking about his
gear not being found. Yeah, another efurious that he got
lost and got off trail. So uh, speculation that he
extended or altered his route, becoming disoriented in dense in
the dense, remote train, poorly mark trails around like Eleanor

(52:52):
and nearby wilderness could easily lead to disorientation. You know,
this could account for why why none of his gear
is found. He just wandered out of the search area.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
I would say maybe if he didn't have a map
for a compass, but I doubt he didn't have those
things or a GPS. Yeah, that's all assumption, just for
the internet trolls.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
And I'll have to check. I was reading something I
believe he did have.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
He did. Have you talk for a second.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Let yeah, I was gonna say, I wonder if the
one thing I would know if you're a solo hiker
and you do this all the time, and you know
the area, which it seems like he did. There's this
tiny little lake that's a little south between Lake Eleanor
and Hatchetchee. That again, if you're soloing all the time,
you probably want to do things solo. Yeah, maybe not

(53:42):
be around people, Like I would totally detour to this
thing and like set up camp and maybe try and
go out and fish this lake because no one's going
to be there. Yeah, and it's not that far out
of the way. That is again completely just making up
a scenario of something that I might do. Now. To

(54:03):
be fair, though, I would say in my pre planning, like, hey,
there's a possibility i'd go here, because I usually when
I look at maps or I think of where I'm going,
I also look at all the places I might want
to consider.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Yeah, so I I did leave this little fact out
of the gear. So some reports noted that he might
have had a GPS watch with him.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Confirmed, but okay, so theoretically he might have had GPS
navigation on him. Okay, that doesn't guarantee that if you're lost,
it's going to get you out of there, but so yeah,
I mean I think getting lost is a that would
explain why none of his stuff was found, is that

(54:48):
he just he got really really lost and hiked out
of the search area.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
I'm just kinda I'm kind of driving with you on
that one.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I'm still stuck on how none of that stuff was found.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
That's that's where when you keep saying that, I think
it like hit home and final. Well, no, you're right,
because I was like, oh, maybe he lost it, and
you're you're right when you said, like, why would he
go out and with all the stuff? And oh if
he doesn't need to unless he wants to camp on
the other side.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Of the lake.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, and he's portaging and maybe like there was some
rough weather that blew in quick and.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Yeah, got a little rough and that's a big lake.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Yeah. And you know the inflatable kayak.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I saw it.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I mean it looks pretty sturdy, but in rough waters
that would be yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I was sitting pretty low.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
So do you have any can you look at the see
if anybody has, say pictures from the shore of the lake.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, I know they will.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Let's see here. Oh, there we go. Well, there's one
out on the water. Perfect.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
It looks like it's right in the middle it's hopefully
that's correct. Sometimes it's awful a little bit. Let's see.
Oh yeah, it's from the dam. It's that's pretty.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
That's not a big lake.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
That's not it looked bigger from the Yeah. Yeah, that
doesn't look like you could get some It doesn't look
big enough to get waves that would rock out somebody
out of a kayak.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah growing up near a bigger lake and living near
Lake Michigan.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, like think about Lake Geneva. Yeah, that's rough sometimes
and that you could still manage a kayak probably in
a rough day. It'd be tough. Yeah, but this definitely
isn't getting like that.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
No, And I.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Mean that's that's small enough that if you fell in
in the middle and it wasn't like freezing, you could swim.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
The shore, especially if you had a light vest.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah, which we don't know.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
If you did it wasn't you would I would think
that would be something that would be listed as his gear.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Aren't a lot of fishing vest also life vest they
have like somewhat floating capacity. Okay, it might be right, And.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
That's a fisherman that's listening or woman, let us know,
fisherman or fisher lady. Yeah, fisher lady. All right, let's
get through the rest of these theories. So another one
was wildlife encounter, but this is pretty unlikely.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
You know, mountain lion.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Attacks are very rare, especially a grown male is probably
not going to be attacked by Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Yeah, it's just not a very big lake.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
I mean that's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Yeah, it's really cool. It looks so calm, like for
the listeners.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
It is a big lake, but not big enough to
generate like one or two foot waves that would like rocks. Yeah,
like that would rock a kayak. And potentially it.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Looks like a great lake to take a kayak out
in the fish.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Oh, you could paddle board across this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Yeah, So yeah, I'm gonna rule out wildlife encounter. I
just don't think that's very likely.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
And he had he had bear canisters for his food,
so like he was prepared and he probably you know,
he wasn't attracting bear if he had a bear canister,
he knew enough to keep his food tied up.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
And yeah, they said he was experienced, right.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Yeah, now that view makes it look a little a
little bigger. Now look at that. This is like the
thickest part of lake. Yeah, I mean that's a decent size.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
That's why I said it's decent. But it's not getting
huge waves, that's for sure. This pengshe I. Actually while
you were talking, I went to their photography page. We're
gonna have to get some of these prints and hang
him in the office. Ye oh yeah, yeah like that.
It's the most of the pictures for this episode I
pulled up in photosphere were his he is awesome, like
self promoting his photography. Yeah, that's cool, Like, keep talking,

(58:29):
I'll pull it up. I like, I saved it because
so cool.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I just the final theory that people talked about was
obviously foul play, but there is no evidence or signs
supporting criminal involvement and considered it was considered highly unlikely
due to the remoteness and lack of any indication of
human interference.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
So oh, those pictures are amazing.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I think this is the lake because that's why he
was he was These are his sementy pictures that yeah,
we've been following.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Kind of looks like I mean, it looks like parts
version of it. So, uh yeah, what what's your theory?

Speaker 1 (59:07):
I'm I mean, how many.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
We know it was in the park because the park
ranger saw him at five o'clock. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
How many shows in a row have I been agreeing
with you? We haven't had a disagreement in a long time.
I'm kinda I'm with you on getting lost, And I'd
say that's my top choice, as he just chose a
different route or went off course and then somehow didn't
get back on and succumbed to the elements over time. Yeah,
I still think that's highly unlikely. I would say my

(59:34):
next one would be some sort of water accident. Yeah,
and he did have his stuff in there, and it's
potentially okay if it deflates, the weight of the stuff
would bring it to underwater, so you wouldn't find it,
because again.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
They had divers in the lakes, so that but of.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
An inflatable raft crumpled up red at the bottom of
a lake a body and.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Like a big bag full of year it's a big
to search.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
For a body.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Do you ever watch that show where they have those
divers they find cars with people. You always laugh at
really gruesome stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
No, I mean, I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Just messing with you. But they always find a car
like right off the road and it's been missing for
twelve years. Well, think about no one's ever seen it there?

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
The is it Lake Mead?

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
The water level dropped enough that like submerged cars that
they didn't know or yeah, like there like we're showing up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Yes, and that's like a heavily trafficked area.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
I think it was Lake Mead. That's the one that
the big dam is attached to by Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah, so like I get the divers went there, but
still like that's unless you're dragging the entire thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
I think I'm kind of leaning towards like you said,
I think he wandered.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
He either wandered.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Off, I said, but I'll take yeah, okay, I say it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
I think he either unintented wanded out of the search
area or intentionally was going to fish somewhere else. Maybe
he fished at Lake Ellmer and it wasn't catching anything,
and he's like, you know what, I'm going to try
this lake. And I'm thinking he you know, you know,
seventy's twelve hundred square miles.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I'm thinking he wandered out it. Like he's not in
this area that you have on the map.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Oh you think that he's not there?

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
At all, only he's there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
I think he hiked somewhere else, and the searchers obviously
focused a lot of their energy on this area because
that's where he said he was going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah, but you know, he was a fit guy, outdoorsman.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
He probably could have covered that sound like a lot
of gear with him, but he could have covered you know,
decent terrain in another day. You know, he was supposed
to be out the ninth, he was went in on
the sixth. How many miles could you know you're hiking
by yourself, you're fit, you can you know you're good
at altitude. How many miles do you think you could
cover in two days?

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
I from what it seems like on just the pictures
I've been following from this side to the other, that
photographer did it on one day. Yeah, went from one
end to the other.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
That was nine miles.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
So say he went to Lake eleanor he got there
by like lunch fished, kind of stunk. So maybe he
was like, I mean, I'll go Cherry Lake or zoom out.
Are there any other lakes like to the north?

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Not really, I think it's those those three and really
these two. If he started from that end, was heading
this way and these are kind of heavily populated.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
He yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of puzzled.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
I mean, this is a weird one.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
What about to the south, we have nothing really, it's
really those three lakes yep.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Now what about the Hatchatchy Reservoir. It looks like is
that a river that goes out of there? Well, here's
the Hatchatchy dam yep, so go the other way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Oh are you saying north?

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, kind of like it's like a do
they call it a confluence? Remember we had someone that
like went missing on this river because it goes for
a long time. But I don't know, I don't know,
I I would I mean, my off the deep end

(01:03:21):
would be somebody like assaulted him. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Outside of that, it's a it's a wild one. I mean,
drowning is likely, but I'm thinking he got he went
like got lost.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, I'm thinking that. I would think if he drowned,
his gear would have been found some of it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Yeah, I don't know. This one's a head scratcher.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Yeah, well, definitely let us know your theories online. This
is every time I feel like, oh, this one, this
one will make sense. Research like this is a pretty
straight and then it's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
It never is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
But thanks again for tuning into our show. We appreciate
all of you for listening and sharing locations unknown with
your friends and family. Be sure to like us and
follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube, where you
can find videos of each episode. You can also catch
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the show monetarily, please visit our website or Facebook store
to buy some awesome merch and as Mike said, we'll

(01:04:20):
have an actual store from popping up where we're looking
at some of the stuff. I mean, blankets, hockey pucks,
golf ball, golf balls. We won't post all that stuff underwear, underwear.
I will be getting some locations on underwear. Yeah. Absolutely. Additionally,
you can subscribe and pay for additional episodes and access

(01:04:42):
to other swag that will send you through our patron
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when enjoying the beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping, or
simply taking a walk, always remember to leave no trace.

(01:05:02):
Thanks and we will see you all next time, Bye,

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Lost in Yosemite - The Disappearance of Joel Thomazin

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Lost in Yosemite - The Disappearance of Joel Thomazin