August 15, 2019 • 55 mins
Welcome Back to Locatora Radio! This week, we interview author, Kali Fajardo-Anstine, and discuss her recent publication Sabrina & Corina, the #MeToo movement in the literary world, and fictionalizing your family's stories. This convo gets real as we connect storytelling and ancestral trauma.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Radio Radio Radio's a Myth and Bullshit, a radiophonic novella
Local Radio hosted by Malamla Loca Morris. Welcome back to
(00:24):
local radio. Welcome back, Welcome back. This is Mala and
this is the Sam look I thought. A Radio is
a radiophonic novella archiving the brilliance and legacies of women
and fems of color. We are last Mommies of myth
and Bullshit Las Radio radiophonic novela, which is just a
(00:44):
really extra way of saying a podcast. Thank you so
much for tuning in to We're so excited to be
recording again. We're always excited to record. Wait, Saturday is
just always a beautiful day. You know we're gonna record
where the outfits are cute, cut guests. We have a
cute guest today. Very cute guests are really cute guests.
(01:07):
Is very cute. We record out of Oil Heights. Is
super cute. Don't come gentrify it, but shout out b H, yes,
shout up b H. Admire it from a distance, do
not move in exactly. And you know, as folks who
we ourselves are not from Oil Heights, we like to
be respectful Yeah, we come, we record, we love the community.
(01:28):
We do what we can, try to put our money
here when we're here, by like, you know, patron ng
the local businesses. Yes, patriots stronizing whatever. We like to
throw our money in the streets of Oil High, Yes,
and then go home exactly, exactly to our own community.
What is What are languages today? I'm so confused. Language
(01:51):
is a social construct. It really is. Just like sometimes
my brain wants to speak in Spanish, but I'm speaking English,
and then vice versa, and I get very confused and
stressed out. Sometimes that's for all. Sometimes my brain wants
to speak Spanish, but I can. You can? You actually can?
Is a thing? The thing is my Spanish is really
(02:11):
pretty good. Like it's not, it's pretty good, Mama, Like
this bacha thing is a front. Okay, this is a
fake persona she call hes a. But then I see
her have a full on conversation with my dad and
I'm like, okay, I can communicate, but everybody can tell
you know what I mean. It's fine, it's all good.
Let me you're actually a poach and it's okay. I'm
(02:32):
not going to take that identity from you, but I
do want to say that your Spanish is really good. Yeah,
and I know that like folks that like, you know, um,
maybe Spanish wasn't their first language, or maybe they feel
a little insecure, self conscious speaking it, and like that's
that's like it's almost like the self fulfilling part because
then you don't speak it, so then it doesn't get
(02:53):
better because it really is a muscle memory like practice.
But then you're nervous, so then you don't practice, and
then it's just a cycle endings I call yeah, so
yeah who anyway and tee who. So we're back. We're
recording um and as always, we want to remind you
all of our lovely, beautiful collaborations that we have with
the number of Latina owned businesses. Yes, we have some
(03:13):
really great brand partnerships, sponsorships. As always, we continue to
have our sponsored our collaboration with blew me. You can
use our cold look ten to get ten percent off
of your sexual health and wellness products. They have been
sending us some really great items the past couple of
months and we just continue to rape about them, continue
(03:34):
to love them. Oh yeah, I'm just living for the
fact that I've just like I'm starting to have like
a vibrator collection, and I love it because I've never
been a collector of things, but I'm down to have
a collection of vibrators, you know. I just feel like
I've really leveled up because I've had a couple of
dildos in my life, like back in the day, and
now i have a rose Cords dildo, and I'm just like,
(03:58):
can I get any better than this? It's very Latin honestly,
I mean Latina Latin looks aesthetics. It's so funny. I love.
Twenty years from now, there's going to be some kind
of a mood board or something, the holographic pinterest of
the future, and this is going to be like Latin
(04:21):
x looks. Yes, cat rings, podcast, attire, Fashionova, highways to jeans,
all of it. Yes, love it, love it. Okay, So
you can check out and get your own Rose Course
dildo at the Blue Me or your own vibrator and
other products that they have such as um intimate care products,
(04:44):
the condoms, lubricants, tampons, pads, all of the goodies that
you want to use. They sent me this really great,
like very gentle like oil, the Lady Sweet Oils. I
love that one. Because and especially so for those of
you who, um, maybe if you wax or you get sugared,
(05:06):
or even if you shave down there. I have found
that for any whatever the hair removal process, like using
the oils down there, has just been really great, you know,
very gentle because you can buy like oils, like if
you at your waxing place, you know, to like prevent ingrowns.
I feel like this does the same the same job. Yes,
(05:27):
I love it. That's a really good oil. It feels
really great. It feels great. Our next Latina owned business
that we have a beautiful collaboration collaboration with is Viva Cosmetics.
You know they make all the bessel proof lippies I'm
currently weren't beautiful. It's one of their mate lipsticks. Yes,
it looks beautiful. So Locomotives get your Viva Cosmetic products
(05:52):
at fifteen percent off your order. The code is locomotives.
So once again, check out Viva Cosmetics with the code
locomotives for fifteen percent off your order. Yes, and remember
to donate to us if you have any extra funds
in your account. Um, get your man to donate to us. Yes,
actually I would pro for it if you find a
(06:13):
man to donate to it. I agree, Um, that would
actually be a really great way to finess someone at
a bar. I love that. Should probably just go out
and do that. Now, that should be a social experiment
that we do. How many men at the bar can
we get to donate to our podcast? That's actually really great.
It's a different kind of crowdfunding. I think that we
should do that, and I'm here for it. Yeah, all right,
(06:34):
so you can vendo us a look at that a
dash radio. If you recall our last coupy deal, we
shared a hot mess of a store we were in Chicago. Um,
and you know what, I'm not gonna like that may
happen again. It will probably happen again in the future.
I hope we're never that broke again. But let's be honest,
we probably will be that broke an. But maybe let's
put it out there that it won't happen again. But
(06:54):
life happens. Life happens, and no matter what that this is.
The thing is like, when you're resourceful, you can finesse
whatever zero dollars in my bank account. Bet we're still
going to have a great day. Right. You know, Sometimes
when I'm really broke. I like to think like you
know what, and I'm stressed about it. I like to
think like, you know what, I've done a lot more
with a lot less, you know, and that kind of
(07:15):
just keeps me grounded, like, Okay, I'm going to get
through this. I have, I'm good, it's gonna be fine. Fine.
And the funny thing too, is like with all the
different apps, so like you could have like your Venmo
and a little bit of a balance there, right, or
if you have different savings apps and maybe a little
bit of a balance there. I just feel like there's
these little money apps and then or if you have
(07:36):
a PayPal, you forget you have little pockets of money.
And that's happened with me. Yeah, It's like finding twenty
bucks in your literally in your literal genes, only it's digital.
It's digital, like, oh I did I have twenty dollars?
I could do anything? Yeah, you know. Mom and I
have been talking about how like when it comes to money,
it's almost like you don't you can't see it. So
I don't have like a well, I do have a
(07:56):
savings account, but I have I also use an application
that will take money and just save it for me
and I don't have to look at it. Um, and
that is one thing that I have used and been
able to save. It's not such it No, it's helpful.
It's hard to save money yea. Um. But yeah, anyways,
so hit the venmo look at dash radio. Thank you
to those who did donate after hearing that story. Um,
(08:18):
it might be a little loud in here because there's
a book reading going on. Um, we're really happy about
this book reading going on. But just f y I
and just a little reminder to like, subscribe and comment
on Apple podcast, listen on Spotify and audio boom, visit
our website, look at the radio dot com, and follow
us on Twitter. And I g at look at Underscore Radio. Yes,
(08:39):
love us out loud, y'all because the algorithm is working
with us. I was shadow band bitches and like listener
dm me to tell me that same DM that same
listener dammed me too. Um. I checked my d ms
later that day and I saw that it was very interesting. Well,
we're going to get into that right now. Right, so
we're going to get into our segment of Oya. Lookas
and y'all know that this is one of our favorite
(09:00):
segments Honestly, it's always a good time listen y'all, like
we want. I posted a little rant about this on
my story recently. We are a fem centered podcast, Survivor centered.
We really only have fems, queer folks, women on this
podcast as far as interviews go, like, we really don't
step outside of that. We have never had assist het
(09:22):
man on this podcast. We have never neither as a guest. Um, no,
we just haven't. Like they're just not our demographic, you
know what I mean. Outside of the project though, like
you know, men are people to like we recognize that,
Like I would like to be able to support and
pick up Latinos and men of color who are doing
(09:44):
cool things in the world. But we try, we'll try
and put our support behind someone and you know, the
internet is quick, and then right away someone lets us know, oh,
actually this Latino has allegations of sexual assault, rape of miners,
that that that that that, so we have to pull back.
So these are the questions we have to ask ourselves.
(10:07):
It's like, you know, the the the investment, it's a
risky investment, right, like the r o I s you know,
pretty low because it turns out that these men have
some type of skeleton in their closets, right, they're actually abusers,
they're perpetrators, they're you know, it's just it's a mess.
(10:27):
It's a mess. And it's just like why we don't
necessarily align ourselves with any men publicly, because then what
happens or even just you know, behind closed doors or
behind closed doors even in our private lives. We do
not align with men. No, I'm like, I don't even
align with my father loom Like, No, it's so true.
It's honestly safer and wiser, and I think a better
(10:50):
business and community cultivation practice to align ourselves with women, folks.
It's the only it's the only way, yeah, I mean,
and that isn't to say that like you know, blah
lah lah. Yes, women can be abusive to we know that.
I'm same, the same with queer folks, Like definitely. However,
the biggest perpetrators tend to be sis hetero men of
(11:12):
any type of abuse, any type of predatorial behavior, violence, violence,
rates of homicide. Yeah. So before anyone is like, well,
I don't know, don't even don't even you know that,
we recognize that, don't start don't do it. Don't start
with us. So yeah, and anyways, they also don't need
our little platform. Like like we've talked about, uh, women
(11:35):
of color we have a hard time getting written about,
We have a hard time getting pressed. Men do not
have the same difficulties. Yeah, there are plenty of Latino
X journal Latino journalists. Have they ever hit us up
or emailed us? Absolutely not, absolutely not. So if that's
you listening, fucking send us an email, send us an email,
send us an email. Once again, we will we will
(11:56):
discuss the fact that only women of color have written
about us, only women of colorjournalists have written about us
our interview guys, who's coming up next has more to
talk about with that regard with press and journalism and
women of color getting um right ups or not. And
so this is another reason why we focus on women
of color is because men just have far more access
(12:16):
in the journalism space, in media coverage. They don't need
our little fucking platform to get their project off the ground.
So that's also to say, if you are a straight
man and you've been deming us your work, don't because
we're not going to look at it. We're not going
to bring you on the podcast. This is not for you. Know,
like you know, there's plenty of other podcasts and you know,
collective spaces for y'all to be featured in, and this
(12:38):
is just not the one. This is it, you know,
go literally anywhere else? Yeah literally yeah, yeah, Okay. Anyway,
So going back to AYR Loca. Oh yes, the question right,
So the question is, UM, what books are you currently reading? Yes,
so UM, thank you for this question. So right now,
(12:58):
I've been reading UM by Amandel Cantata. And Amandeal Cantata
is a journalist, one of the women of color journalists
right who's out here doing the damn thing. And Amanda
Um writes and reports for UM Media with Maria you know, Josa.
(13:23):
And Amanda Um published this book, Chula, and she sent
us a couple of copies. So I read it and
I loved it. And what I really loved about Amanda's
book Tula is the way that she weaves in her
Dominican Spanish into all of the poetry and the pros
and the memoir and it really gives it UM just
a really different energy when you're reading it, when you're
(13:45):
walking through it UM. The way that she lays out
visuals and she describes things. It really is very beautiful.
So I really enjoyed reading it. Yeah, I've picked it
up and I haven't finished it, but I do like
how she also incorporates like music to it, and like
if you can definitely feel it even though you're reading it.
It's like you can only I don't know, you can
definitely just feel like the presence of the music and
(14:07):
the culture within the store, within the poems. Yeah, it's beautiful.
And I also like the way, similarly, how she jumps
between English and Spanish and English and Dominican Spanish specifically.
She also her upbringing, which she details in the book,
is one of jumping between the United States and d
R Right, So like having this experience having lived in
(14:31):
both places um and back and forth, back and forth,
and her mother being back and forth. And I think
that's interesting as far as like identity development and culture
and making friends and community. She talks a lot about
like um, first love and first lust and her first
time and things like that. Uh, this is a survivor
centered podcast, and Amanda in Chula also talks about like
(14:54):
some stocking that she's experienced, right and going into detail
about that and how that affected her. So I was
just really appreciated the body of work. Um. I thought
it was really beautifully done. And we want to thank
Amanda for sending us to read. Yes, thank you so much,
Amanda for sending those copies over. We love to support
women of color, artists, poets, all of the swords, you know. Um,
(15:17):
and yeah, it's just really amazing to see all of
the work that women are out here doing. Um. And
you know, especially I really like to see work by latina's. Well,
I like to see all work by latina's obviously, but
I you know, I can enjoy as like a Latina
living in l A, like reading the work of latinas
on the East coast of the of Caribbean descent. You know,
(15:39):
I just think it's it's also such an important narrative
to have within the conversations that we may not have
direct access to. Not that Caribbeans aren't out here, but
just thinking about the communities that I'm in, like on
my Provian side and maybe on the Mexican Chicano side,
you know what I mean. So being able to see
read a different type of narrative. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, und percent.
(16:00):
And I think also to like, you know, um, Dominicans
in the United States have just been really making their
presence known and their impact, and whether it's Dominicans who
are on the East Coast or Dominicans out here in
l A. Like you know, Dominicans and Dominicanos are really
like pushing culture and pushing things for it. I mean
I think of like, obviously there's uh the kid Marrow
(16:24):
just suck killing the game. We got Julisa, Julisa Danco
da Polanco. There's plenty more. There's plenty more. I mean, Amanda, Amanda,
you know, of course Dominican side of Kelly um Milania, Yes,
Luisa who is a poet as well, who's um uh
(16:46):
poet and friends with Yes, And I don't know, there's
just so many d nasty I was going to say
CLOUDI off, she runs the Mammy Chola Social Club in
New York. Very cool, very like, just so many like
dope dominica us in the game really like, as you're saying,
creating culture, just making moves and yeah, it's just super
cool to see, very cool to see. So keep it up.
(17:08):
We love it, we support we support um and all
that to say, if you are an artist or a
creator and you're a woman of color, you're a fem
of color and you're interested in maybe having your work
discussed the review'm you know d MS emails radio dot com. Yeah,
email us ola at look, I thought our radio dot
(17:28):
com and we'll see what's up. But we'll see what
we can do. Yeah, definitely. Um, one of the books
that I just finished reading is you know, Sabrina and Cordina.
So I'm really excited that we actually get to interview
the author today the second half of the interview. UM,
this book kind of just fell into my lap via
social media because I was just looking for something to
read and I had just ordered Poet X by Elizabeth
(17:52):
Another Dominicana, and I was just looking for something I
wanted to read something fiction. Short fiction is actually one
of like my first loves when it comes to literature,
and I wanted to read something by a Latina author.
And I just saw a couple of people I think, yes,
he guy for example, shared this book and that's just
really how I came across it and just completely was
enamored by her work. So definitely recommend that book. I've
(18:15):
shared it on my Instagram a couple of times, and
I mean, we're going to get to interview the author
right now. Super exciting, Yeah, super exciting. So it just
so happens, um that the author of you Know Sabrin
is here ambol Heights doing a book reading and assigning
at a spa. She's actually like doing it right now
(18:35):
as a record as a record, So we're gonna bring
her on to talk about her process and her work
and her origins and all that good stuff. Yeah, yeah, alright,
So I think we have one final question, and it's
about Instagram and what do we think about the recent
changes in Instagram? What is being shadow band mean? And
(18:57):
how are we dealing with the algorithm? So we've noticed,
and I think other of our friends who have run accounts,
small businesses, projects, who are creatives have also noticed like
really low engagement across platforms, but especially on Instagram, really
low engagement. And I think there's multiple things happening. So
I think, on the one hand, like I think every
(19:18):
platform has its heyday and then a decline, and I
think Instagram has now been around for long enough and
has been impactful enough that we could maybe be just
seeing that decline in the platform itself. A Facebook effect
and MySpace effect. It happens, that's one thing, the other pieces.
(19:38):
They are constantly making changes, like to the algorithm and
what pushes the content onto someone's timeline or discover page.
It's changing, it's changing, changing, um and I think it's
just I think we're going to step into an era
of Instagram and Facebook because they're owned by the same
Facebook owned Instagram, right. I think what we're going to
(19:59):
see is just a lot more paid content. So it's
going to be more difficult for indie creators to really
put their stuff out there because they're going to have
to to get a lot of traction with their posts,
because they're going to have to start paying for ads,
which is not feasible for indie creators. You know, we
just did our first actual in the three years we've
never done a paid ad. We did our paid a
(20:19):
paid ad for the brunch that we're hosting, just to
kind of test it out and be like, does this
even work? Is this an investment? I didn't actually see
any significant difference in traction it did. I did see
from the analytics that it did reach a lot of
people that were necessarily following us, but that doesn't necessarily
translate the ticket sales, you know, because I mean I
(20:41):
don't know about y'all, but like, I don't know if
I'm going to go to a brunch for folks that
I don't know, you know what I mean. Like the
community that comes out are y'all our listeners, and y'all
bring your people that become new listeners, you know what
I mean. So I don't know if that necessarily works
for us, but we tested it out just to see it,
and I don't think GET really made a difference. Neither
(21:01):
do I UM. I think that part of the reason
why the project has worked is because, like we've talked about,
but our base, our demographic is mostly Latina as women
of color in general, and the way that we find
out about things is by word of mouth and by
telling each other. So somebody told somebody check out, check
this out, brought them in, invited them into the space,
(21:23):
and now we're community. So the ads has just never
been really part of our business model. It really hasn't
getting strategy at all. No, no, So I just yeah,
it's I don't know if sad is the right word.
It's more disappointing to see that it's going to become
even more It is already becoming more difficult for indie
creators to get their stuff out there. But I think
(21:45):
it's also a really important reminder that we can't use
just one platform that we don't actually even own to
like get our followers, to get our community. Like it's
just I think just shows us that we really need
to own whatever it is that we're creating and where
we're putting it. You know so, I think like our
website isn't really fully um it's not fully complete. Like
(22:10):
our website is just it's up and running. You can
get like the basics of like where to catch our
next event, where to listen to our latest, but it's
definitely not done, you know. So I just think it's
an important reminder that, like, wherever you're going to have
your content live, like make sure that it's somewhere that
you own it, if that's a website, a newsletter, whatever
that may be. Because at the end of the day,
(22:31):
like we don't own Instagram. No. Digital real estate is
a real thing. Digital real estate is a real thing.
And it's like right now we're like renting or borrowing
our space on i g um, and you know it
was only going to be free for so long because
nothing is truly free. No, And then I think it's
like they saw like the impact Instagram and Facebook like
(22:52):
saw the impact and like, oh, we can actually be
making money off of this free account because yeah, sure
it's free to have an account, but now to actually
get traction with your with your post, with your feed, like, well,
you're gonna have to pay an ad yeah, And I, um,
you know, so on the topic of shadow banning, right,
So I got a d M. Um, so we each
got d m s and from a follower listener who's
(23:16):
been supporting us for a few years now and who's
just kind of been around, and uh, he said, you know,
I haven't been seeing your post on my feed. I
think you've been shadow banned. So I screen shot that
d M and I sent it to the l side
and we're like, what the fund is shadow banning? So
the aside doesn't search for like a definition what a
(23:37):
shadow banning? Let me pull that up. Um. Well, also,
you know, it became kind of apparent what was going
on because yesterday as well, I saw Joanna from the
Unapologetically Brown Girl or unapologically Street series. She um shared
(23:57):
something about that, and it says creatives don't let algorithms
discourage you from creating and sharing your purpose, your work.
Your reach is bigger than Instagram. It's in the folks
you've touched and the incredible gift within you that continues
to grow and deserves to be made. Absolutely and and
then the caption is Instagram is playing everybody's shadow, banning accounts,
(24:18):
deleting accounts, specifically POC centered accounts. Right. So this is
a thing, right because multiple people are noticing um listener
like d m s s to tell us about it.
I've had other friends tell me I didn't even know
this event was going on. I haven't seen your stuff
in my timeline at all. So it says Instagram shadow
band is a band that renders your hashtags undiscoverable by
(24:40):
the vibrant users. Only your followers will be able to
see your feed, and not the entire Instagram community. It's
easy to know if you've been shadow band. Search your
post under the tags and see if they appear. So
I did that. I went and I searched hashtag. Look
at our radio our hashtag? So I go to search
it and I see that the top posts, but the
(25:02):
top post under the hashtag we're not from the look
at the account, like the first three interesting our post
that like Julisa's when she posted our flyer, hers was
the first one that came wow, and she has a
big account and that yeah, and even though like that
flyer was posted a while ago. Now this week when
I checked, hers was the first and I had a
(25:24):
recent post. My most recent post is from Cat Dahlia's
interview and I had hashtag look at the radio. So
I checked the hashtag look at our radio. My post
is not up there. Interesting, So I'm like, yeah, a
bitch has been shadow bands and like, I don't know
how it happens or what how do you get swept
up in it? Into it? All this to say, if
you're creating, if you're using Instagram, don't keep all your
(25:47):
ship on there by yourself a website started Google slides like,
start to archive your stuff elsewhere and let people know
where else they can find you. We're really lucky because
we do have like we have Apple podcasts. We have
to you a boom like our content. The actual podcast
is not located on Instagram. It's just where we share
about the podcast and we've cultivated community there. So you know,
(26:10):
just thinking about your own work like, how can you
decentralize it from I definitely necessary? Alrighty, So we're going
to move into a quick shout out from our sponsors.
If you can hear getting a little loud, that's is
talking in the background. He's introduing Gali because she does
have a book signing right now. So we're going to
(26:30):
move on to a word from our sponsors. You scroll down,
it should be there, it's not there. Therapy Yeah, okay,
so we wanted to shout out one of our sponsors,
Therapy for latin X. She is a online database making
(26:51):
it easy to find a latin X therapist, mental health advocate,
or counselor in your area. And you know, we're all
about the mental a glow up globe in every way,
and we really think it's really a valuable resource to
have a Latino Center directory for mental health. So make
sure you check out the registry, yes, and find a
(27:12):
therapist near you. Yeah, definitely. You know, having a therapist
that you can culturally relate with and understand is really important,
So definitely check out Therapy for latin X. Yes, So
we are going to move into a song break. We
want to introduce our guest, our interview guys before we
get into our song break, because we do have a
(27:32):
really exciting author with us today. Yes, so we have
the author Callie Fajardo and Steen, and she is from Denver, Colorado.
Her fiction has appeared in the American Scholar, Boston Review,
Bellevue Literary Review, the Idaho Review, Southwestern American Literature, and elsewhere.
She is going to be talking about her new book,
(27:53):
Sabrina and Corina. So Callie's magnetic story collection breathes life
into her indigenous Latina characters and the land they inhabit,
set against the remarkable backdrop of Denver, Colorado, a place
that is as fierce as it is exquisite. These women
navigate the land the way they navigate their lives, with caution, grace,
(28:14):
and quiet force. So we're gonna bring Kali on or
Casa bell Ros and and and and and and and
and and and and and um um um um um
(28:54):
um um um of it and all right, and we
are back. We are so excited to be welcoming Gali
into the studio today. Hi hi, hi, thank you for
joining us. Can you please just give our listeners a
(29:16):
quick intro For those of our listeners who maybe are
new to your work. Awesome, Yeah, I'd love to. Um. So,
my name is Collie Fajardo Anstein and I'm from Denver, Colorado.
I am the author of the debut short story collection
Sabrina and Corina, that was just published in April from
One World Penguin Random House. UM. I have been writing
(29:37):
stories since I was a child. I've always wanted to
be a writer, and um yeah, I'm just so excited
to have my first book in the world. And I
also have a novel that will be published student from
One World, Um probably the next year or two. That
is amazing. I am a big fan of your work.
Recently finished Sabrina and Corina and just immediately fell in love.
(29:58):
And you're actually here today for a book side naing
correct and a reading. Yeah, I'm so excited. So it's
kind of funny. Um. Back in like I don't know,
I was like fifteen or sixteen years old, I had
a friend on my Space that now is my friend
on Instagram that's like followed me throughout my my social
media life. But he was like, you have to get
into this place called Espasio. So I started like looking
(30:18):
into Espasio a long time ago. So it's just sort
of like coincidental and blissful that I get to be
here and give a reading today. I'm really excited. I
love that, and I love how full circle that is
because we talk about our social media usage all the
time and like meeting each other on Instagram and meeting
other creatives online and how like it just brings great
(30:39):
minds together. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, And Yosima is
actually the one that organized all of this, correct, is
that your friend or is that just no? I used
my friend now the internet of course, So so two
people really like kind of orchestrated, yes in a way, right. Yeah.
And a lot of what I've seen Sabrina and Karna
(31:00):
being posted online and things, it's just a lot of
the push behind this book has come from the bottom
up instead of like coming from huge media outlets telling
people what to like. I'm seeing it on social media
and I think that's where that's where it lives, and
that's where I'm happy to live to. I mean, we
can definitely relate to that to like the community really
(31:20):
pushing you and pushing your work forward, and um, a
lot of stuff for a lot of our art, a
lot of our work is shared via word of mouth,
So even the post is somewhat like a digital word
of mouth, right, people sharing it, posting it, and then
other people looking into it, following it, loving it, sharing
it again. That Yeah, Yeah, I'm really interested in hearing
(31:40):
more from you about like the role that that sort
of model you described, pushing from the bottom, how that
role in mash with social media and the internet has
gotten you to where you are today in the process. Yeah,
so it's kind of interesting. So in the literary world,
I haven't had like the big publications like The New
York or The Atlantic. I've had really good publications, but
(32:03):
I haven't had like the giant magazines. And a lot
of the time the hype will come from New York
City as the center and then trickled down from there um.
And there were times when I was like super depressed
over this, like I have to quit writing. I can't
get into these magazines, I can't get into this space.
But what's ended up happening is I was able to
get into on Random House, which is, you know, obviously
(32:24):
like one of the biggest publishers in the world. I
think it is the biggest publisher in the world. Thank you,
and that was like this huge moment in my life,
and I think that distribution and having all those eyes
on my book really helped. But then I needed to
still have that grassroots push because I still wasn't getting
in these big, big magazines and these big outlets. So
(32:46):
there were times when I was like, the book had
just come out, I wasn't seeing a lot of I
wasn't seeing any national coverage. But what ended up happening
are you know, big social media influencers like the Locals
podcast us, and they started pushing my book and posting
out on stories. And then from that, you know, Latina
(33:06):
actresses were starting to push my book and post it
and from there I was just seeing sort of spontaneous
wildfire of like, we love this book, We're going to
take this book under our wings, and no one told
us to like it. We like it ourselves. Before we
started recording, UM, we kind of started having a conversation
about journalists and newsrooms and if there are no people
(33:30):
of color in the newsroom, no women of color in particular,
are projects by women of color going to be covered.
So it just seems like what you just shared, how
many Latinas are at the New Yorker writing stories about
Latina authors. Yeah, we we don't know. I don't I
don't know. I don't think it's very many. But I
will tell you something that's interesting that happened. So I
(33:50):
was profiled on Bustle and that was my biggest at
the time that happened. That was like my biggest coverage.
It was a Latina editor who found it and pushed it.
And what about for the New York Times because I
know you were featured? Was that also a Latina writer?
She was a woman of color. Yeah, she was a
woman of color. And one thing I did know about
the review, which I'm very happy with it. Um, it's
(34:11):
one percent of books ever published again in New York Times,
So I am very stoked in that one. But she
did not mention that my characters are Latina's and I
thought that was very interesting. Um. So I'm in these pages,
but I'm still like, we don't know what this is,
you know, interesting. So basically our hypothesis is just proven correct,
(34:34):
yeah continuously. Um. So you know, you have your debut novel,
your I mean your debut short stories, um, and I
like am so enamored with the book, with all of
the short stories because you really just you're writing about women,
and you're writing about their stories and what, of course
what they go through, and there's almost this underlying tone
(34:55):
of violence against women, but how it's just so normalized
and you know, be because we're a survivor podcast, we
are a fem centered podcast. I wanted to discuss that
and what that process was like for you writing about
these women, writing about these stories, but also, um, still
having some sense of power and being empowered through it. Yeah, definitely.
(35:17):
So that's one of the questions I get a lot,
And you know, the truthful answer is I had to
write about what I knew, and I grew up watching
a lot of violence. I grew up steeped in generations
of violence, hearing stories that I didn't really understand why
I was being told those stories, And later I thought, Okay,
maybe this is some instructions for my own life or
a warning or that kind of thing. Um. But being
(35:40):
around violence makes you feel very isolated and lonely because
you're not able to always go and share with somebody,
especially when you're taught don't tell anybody what's happening, don't
talk about this. UM. So I think in some ways,
writing Sabrina and Karina in a story like Sabrina and Krena,
for example. You know, there was a woman in my
my community who had been killed when she was fifteen
(36:02):
years old, and I remember being a little girl going
to her funeral and just not having anywhere to put
that pain like what. I couldn't talk to my family
about it. It was just something I had to accept.
So I think in some ways, writing this book and
talking about a lot of the violence that I have
witnessed in my own life and that people have told
me that they have they have come from it, healed
(36:23):
me in some ways, and I'm hoping by being able
to share these stories, it's creating healing out in the world,
um larger than just me. And some of the you know,
some of the comments I've gotten is this book is
too sad, or why are you focusing on all this violence?
And you know, the basic answer that I can give
is that I have to make what I have the
(36:44):
compulsion and the obsession to make, and it comes out
of a deep place, and it comes from generations of pain,
and this is all I you know, Hopefully my work
will start to take on different tones as I grow
as an artist. But this is the first one, and
this is what I have to share with the world.
Love it. I mean, I wonder too, um because it
sounds like the writing is so personal and it's come
(37:06):
from like sourced over the years. If there were any
family or community members who like had difficulties with these
stories being shared on such a large scale. Yeah, So
I think it's kind of interesting. Because I write fiction,
I'm able to have this mask over what's happening. And
I actually like one of my cute little stories of
growing up is I I kept a diary for years
(37:28):
and years and my mom found it and I was
talking about like wanting to kill myself because the boy
didn't like me, and just like emotions to me that
were normal, and she was so upset, like she was like,
we're gonna have to put you in therapy all these things.
And I thought, Oh, if I'm going to get in
trouble for talking about these real emotions, I'm going to
start lying. And that's when I started writing fiction. Um. So,
(37:50):
I think in some ways people aren't able to see
where I'm pulling from. So a lot of my work
their composites of my own life organized in a way
that serves the plot of the story. UM. So the
story Sisters that set in the nineteen fifties, um where
a character is brutally attacked, that is based on one
of my ancestors. That was based on my antidote. She
(38:12):
died before I was born. I never met her, but
I felt hurt. I could feel her spirit, I could
feel her talking through me. But I moved the story around.
I moved the plot around, and in that way, I
think I'm honoring her by sharing this violent act that
happened to her. But I'm also, you know, not revealing
things that I don't even know about. You know, I
have to be able to create art um from all
(38:34):
these different, these different facets in a way. Yeah, you know.
And I think hearing you talk, what I'm hearing is
healing the ancestral trauma through the artwork, which I think
is kind of the mood of all artists right now,
at least artists of color. Right That's definitely I feel
a conversation that's being had is how can we collectively
(38:55):
heal all of this ancestral trauma through our art, through
our poetry, through whatever means. You know. Yeah, It's something
I didn't even know I had, you know, like it
wasn't like I was like eight years old and I
was like, oh, here's the story about anti Toti being
blinded again, that concestral trauma. I did not know what
that was. It was just some sort of story my
auntie would launch into every once in a while. And
(39:17):
my mom has these, you know, these stories of violence
as she went through that she would just launch into.
And I didn't know what PTSD was, you know, I
didn't have the vocabulary for it. Yeah, And I think
that that's like similar, Um, like in our families, where
are the women? And our families will tell these really
share these really intense stories and then move on to
something else, as if it's not intense, you said, if
you weren't just like going through something hearing that story. Um,
(39:40):
And yeah, I mean there's definitely something there. There's something
too at to that. Yeah. I think. Um. I consider
like the violence against women that especially women of color
experience generationally, that we almost um come to look at
it as very normal and like, well, these are just
the social dynamics that we live with. And I think
(40:01):
it takes a lot to actually stand in it and
say not actually this is sucked up, Like, let's talk
about it in specific terms. Let's call it violence, let's
call it aggression, and let's call it abuse, like, let's
name it for what it is, right, Like, my grandmother
will just be passing under her breath, Like there's a
story that she'll share randomly, and it's not when she
(40:21):
tells it, it doesn't seem traumatizing to her, but it's
about how she ended up having to pistol whips some guy.
You know, well, what was he doing? I don't know
what happened. I don't know, but it must have been bad, right,
But it's very just in passing just under her breath.
And so to take things like that and then build
the picture around it, right, And it sounds like that's
sort of what you've done with your book. Yeah, And
(40:43):
I love that you both were like, you know what,
I'm talking about these stories like this, and I am
also I'm fascinated with storytelling. So storytelling comes up in
every single story, the way that story moves between families,
the way that tales are distorted. Um In Sabrina and Karna,
the grandmother a character. You know, she's a pillar of strength,
but she's also pushing this um this violence in a
(41:05):
way by just you know, we're going to tell a
story about it. Now. You know, she they say in
that family, Sabrina didn't love herself enough and she loved
men too much. I mean, these are actual phrases I
heard people in my family say. And then they just
move on. They're like, oh, yeah, well, this is what's
on TV right now. That that's definitely like the victim
blaming narrative, right It's like, oh, she, you know, she
(41:26):
was a you know what else? What else did really
really see coming? You know? So, Um, I'm wondering if
you have any anything you want to share about the
journey from beginning to writing to getting it published. Because
there's a lot of Latina creatives who listened to our podcast. Um,
you know, we're an indie project. A lot of the
women in our community have like their small businesses, their poets,
(41:48):
they're writing, their actresses, they're performing. What would you like
to share with with folks like that who are trying
to get their work off the ground. My biggest advice
is not to give up. And the reason I say
this is because there were so many times I was
on the brink of just like, I can't do this.
I'm running out of money, nobody will publish me, I'm
(42:08):
being told that my my work is not good enough
for these certain kinds of magazines. And there were just
so many times that I felt like I have to
stop UM and just you know, try to find strengthen
yourself and during those times, and take solace in the
stories of those whom you admire, those artists and creatives
who have succeeded, because very few of us get there
(42:30):
from zero to one hundred, like we have so many
stops along the way, and then it seems like you've
gone really far um in a short amount of time,
but you can't see the trail leading up to that
and how jagged it was. UM. So one of the
stories that I've shared is that there was a time
in my life where I had dropped out of my
(42:51):
first m f A program, my first creative writing program.
And I'm a high school dropout, so I already had
the stigma in my family and you know, this dropout
that quits things over and over again. But the reason
why I had I had dropped out. And this is
something that I just started sharing recently because a former
student of mine said, why don't you tell the truth.
I had been attacked by a male student in my program.
I went to the administration. They said they would not
(43:13):
remove him from my classes. And I was like, I'm
gonna I'm gonna end my writing career here like this
is there's no space for me. I can't get any
in anywhere else. Um, So I dropped out. I went
back home to Colorado and Sandra Cisneros was reading at
my college campus. And I had been so depressed over
that decision to leave, and she was. She was up
(43:34):
there giving a reading, and then she stopped and she
talked about how she had been so depressed at times
in her career that she had even considered suicide. And
I thought, if she would have done that, I wouldn't
have had one of my major guiding lights. So think
about yourself is like you are a guiding light. You
just don't know it yet, and you are like revealing
the path for so many people coming behind you. Thank
(43:56):
you for sharing that. That's beautiful. Yeah, thank you so
much for sharing that. That's that's important because I you know,
often we see so much of the successes, we see
the amazing press coverage, the amazing reviews, like I know
sans she's on the back of your book, she like
left a review, I gave you a review. So, but
also to hold space for the really difficult times in
(44:18):
the creative process and throughout the careers. Right, Yeah, it's not.
I mean it's so up and down from day to day,
and then once your work is in the world, you
have to be prepared for how the public is going
to respond, which causes a whole new set of insecurities
and emotions that you didn't even know you could deal with.
So I think the path prepares you for what you're
(44:42):
facing when you actually make it to where you think
you need to be, and the I mean the path
is ongoing. You never truly make it. You always have
made it, but you never truly make it. Yeah. Absolutely,
that's I felt that. I'm like the whole last like
two or three minutes, I'm like, okay, I need I
need a drink. It's good though, No, yes, it's exciting,
(45:03):
Like there's always more work to be done, there's new
obstacles to overcome. Um, I'm curious about like things like
respectability politics, when you go from being independent and then
now like you're saying the work is out there, it
is being covered, it is being picked up people responding
to it. How have you have you failed to shift
in how you carry yourself or how you talk or
(45:25):
I'm really interested in that that process. This is funny.
Like an old friend of mine, he he runs a
boxing gym in Denver. He like DM me and he's like,
you always look so fine now, And I was like, okay,
I was like yeah, I was like but he I
was like, I have to go and be a public
person now, Like it's like I have to go and
dress myself up and you know, present myself. So just
(45:47):
like you know, that shift and knowing that I am public,
that when I give a reading there's going to be
I hope, like ten cell phones at least, like recording me,
taking photos and just having that awareness, but also being
more mindful of what I say, um and making sure
that I don't say harmful things, that I don't say
things that show some of the ignorance that I grew
up with that I have had to work hard to
(46:07):
get rid of, and owning a lot of my shortcomings
and just being honest about who I am and that
way I don't come across as somebody who thinks are
better than they are or arrogant anything like that. I
just I am here to help other people with my
work and knowing that and using that as my guide,
that is what That's what I'm trying to do and
(46:29):
put that work into the world and put that energy
into the world. That's beautiful. You have such a beautiful spirit,
just like sitting across from you, like you're just so
beautiful inside and out. Since we're talking about the d
M S, I wonder, I wonder, um, do you feel
that people from you already eve one example, like the
(46:50):
men from either your hometown or you grew up are
now in the d M slash our fans in the
d M S, and like, how do you navigate that?
So I this is like a new thing for me.
So for a long time on Instagram, rested like at
a thousand followers, and now it's like increasing exponentially, and
I'm like, well, what's going on? There's so many eyes, um,
(47:12):
But I try to respond. I literally try to respond
to every nice note, to every picture at least with
like a heart or tap or something, just to let
them know I see you, I see you engaging with
my work. Because like I said, this is coming from
the bottom up. It's not coming from everybody was like, oh,
this is a New York time supposed tollar. I have
to get that book. So just making sure that my
readers and my my fans know that I support them
(47:33):
and I care about them. Um. But again, I think
that social media it has become a job for me
in a lot of ways. So I need to be
writing a novel. You guys like I have another book
coming out, and so there have been times where I'm like,
I can't go in line today. It's going to be
too much of a time sec. It's going to take
away from my creative energy. And so holding sort of
like office hours like when I was a professor or
(47:56):
a lecturer. I wasn't not a professor. When I was
a lecturer, I would have my office hours, and I
kind of think of the same way, like d ms
are open right now, this is when I'll respond to
this window. And I did my first ask me anything
on Instagram the other day and I just set aside
time that day and this is what we're going to
engage with and this is how you know it's going
to be very cool. I love that I think we
(48:19):
should borrow that idea of the office hours, that's when
we respond to the messages and the d M. That's
a great idea. Yeah, we'll give credit. UM. I had
another question and just left my mind. Well, okay, I'm
kind of jumping back again. But you know, you share
the story about experiencing basically gender based violence in your
(48:40):
program and how that affected your education the trajectory, and
you know, I think this is a survivor centered podcast.
We do talk about sexual assault violence against women quite
often when it's relevant, right, And I think it's um
really interesting to discuss like the me too movement in
all these different industries and fields. So we had a
musician here the other day. We talked about the me
(49:00):
too movement in the music industry. So I'm wondering if
on your end, if this is something that are people
talking about this, is there a shift in behavior or
men behaving better? Are people afraid? Like what is going on?
Tell us? Yeah? So there definitely has been a me
too movement in UM literature. There's been some major figures
(49:22):
who were taken down UM like Juno Dias, Sherman Alexei.
And it's kind of interesting because the Sherman Alexei thing.
It's like you still see his books everywhere, and I
think it's kind of similar with the dias situation. Um.
What it's done, I think on a personal level is
my network now is mostly women of color, and we're
(49:43):
able to support each other without having to outsource two men.
And my editor is a woman of color. Yeah, my
editor is a woman of color, my agents a Jewish woman,
and I just I feel like it's very rare. If
you look at the blurbs on my book, I have
one man. There's one man who blurbed me, and so
(50:03):
it kind of feels like, I don't I don't need
to interact with you as much as I thought I
had to in order to get to where I need
to be. Nobody's asking me who I slept with to
get this book published, because because they can look and
see like, oh, she just loved with a bunch of women,
I guess to get this book published. Um. So yeah,
I think it's just it's created a space where there
can be a lot more women supporting women, and we
(50:26):
don't have to defer to positions of power that were
traditionally held by men. Um. There was a very there's
a very famous literary journal, to Paris Review. For years
and years a lot of people had heard stories of
the former editor. He was taken out by the Me
Too movement. He was somebody who rejected my stories in
the past. So maybe maybe I have I can try again.
(50:47):
You should definitely try again. So just seeing women take
on positions of power in the literary world, that's been
super exciting. I don't think a book like mine would
have the traction it has um prior to Me Too,
and that I'm just I'm really excited about that. I'm
sorry that women are being able to have, you know,
bigger say in literature. Yeah, it's really exciting because it's
(51:10):
kind of like plot twist. We don't actually need men
to make our projects or business is successful. There are millions,
billions of women in the world who have jobs, who
are consumers, who read. I can imagine that's a podcast
to invest on their own. We don't need really men
investing in that way. No, And I was, you know,
(51:30):
I was reading this statistic recently about just let the power,
the buying power that Latinas have just in general, and
how when a Latina finds a product or something that
she likes, she will literally share it with every single
you know. So going back to the word of mouth,
it's like Latina's really truly like our culture shifters, influencers
(51:51):
and their own right without having like the big Instagram,
blue check or you know what I mean, Like really
are moving the markets. Whether white people want to see
it or not, but I think that they are paying
attention now to the to the power and the influence
that we have. Yeah, one of the coolest things I
have seen. So a lot of my readings have been
in non traditional spaces because I don't have a budget
for a tour from the publisher, like I fund my
(52:13):
own tour. So it's out of the question for me
to fly to Houston and just do a reading at
a bookstore. It has to be a purposeful choice. Um,
but something that's been really interesting. So I've done um
community theater for Latina's where I've had a book club meeting,
and I did a recent book club meeting and this
this young Latina she brought she bought five books. It's
(52:34):
a lot of money, Okay, it's a lot, and she
was like signed signed into all my friends, like all
my home girls get a book. And I'm like what,
And I've had like little old men come and buy
one for all their daughters. I'm like, you can read
it too. But that's adorable. Yeah, that's amazing. Damn, we're
really out here. It's so exciting. It's so freaking exciting.
(52:57):
And I'm wondering, Um, so you did mention you have
a novel that you're working on. Is there any teasers
that you would like to share about your upcoming work? Yeah?
So my So, my upcoming novel is basically, I took
the family migration story from northern New Mexico southern Colorado
to Denver and I fictionalized it. And I knew I
wanted to tell the story since I was a little girl,
(53:19):
because again, this was one of the stories that the
elders just told over and over again, the big walk,
like when we left the country where we were the
majority and we came up to the city and it
was a completely different landscape. Um. So it is a
story that starts in eighteen ninety and it looks at
this sort of genesis generation, their wild West performers, their
(53:40):
native Mexican and then they start mixing with Europeans and
then because of racial violence. They're sort of a fall
with that generation, and then it takes a look at
the next generation living in Denver in the nineteen thirties
during the depression. UM, and I'm really excited because there's
so many people. It doesn't happen very often. But a
big reason I'm creating the work I'm creating is because
(54:02):
I felt invisible my whole life. I felt like people
didn't know we existed. People from northern New Mexico, southern
Colorado that you know, have this complicated ancestry. And I'm
just really excited that I get to have this national,
international platform to talk about my ancestors and my heritage
and when I come from beautiful that's amazing. So thank
(54:23):
you so much for chatting with us today. For folks
that want to support your book, UM, that want to
purchase one, that want to follow you, where can they
do that? So the best way to purchase my book
is to ask your independent bookstore to carry it. If
they don't already carry it. Most independent bookstores will do
special orders. UM. You can also get it online through
the traditional places, but I'd like to suggest bookstores. UM.
(54:46):
I'm really active on Instagram and it's CALLI maha um
k A l I m A j A and you
can kind of follow me on Twitter, but like I
don't really like the GRAMA is where it's at. Definitely
all right, Well this has in another cup. You look
at thought. Our radio is always you know where to
find us on Apple, on Spotify, on audio Boom, check
(55:06):
us out on Instagram at look at Underscore radio, hit
our Venmo, look at the dash radio. Check out the
website radio dot com. You know what to do. You
know what to do already, look at what as. We
will catch you next times
Radio Radio Radio's a Myth and Bullshit, a radiophonic novella
Local Radio hosted by Malamla Loca Morris. Welcome back to
(00:24):
local radio. Welcome back, Welcome back. This is Mala and
this is the Sam look I thought. A Radio is
a radiophonic novella archiving the brilliance and legacies of women
and fems of color. We are last Mommies of myth
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much for tuning in to We're so excited to be
recording again. We're always excited to record. Wait, Saturday is
just always a beautiful day. You know we're gonna record
where the outfits are cute, cut guests. We have a
cute guest today. Very cute guests are really cute guests.
(01:07):
Is very cute. We record out of Oil Heights. Is
super cute. Don't come gentrify it, but shout out b H, yes,
shout up b H. Admire it from a distance, do
not move in exactly. And you know, as folks who
we ourselves are not from Oil Heights, we like to
be respectful Yeah, we come, we record, we love the community.
(01:28):
We do what we can, try to put our money
here when we're here, by like, you know, patron ng
the local businesses. Yes, patriots stronizing whatever. We like to
throw our money in the streets of Oil High, Yes,
and then go home exactly, exactly to our own community.
What is What are languages today? I'm so confused. Language
(01:51):
is a social construct. It really is. Just like sometimes
my brain wants to speak in Spanish, but I'm speaking English,
and then vice versa, and I get very confused and
stressed out. Sometimes that's for all. Sometimes my brain wants
to speak Spanish, but I can. You can? You actually can?
Is a thing? The thing is my Spanish is really
(02:11):
pretty good. Like it's not, it's pretty good, Mama, Like
this bacha thing is a front. Okay, this is a
fake persona she call hes a. But then I see
her have a full on conversation with my dad and
I'm like, okay, I can communicate, but everybody can tell
you know what I mean. It's fine, it's all good.
Let me you're actually a poach and it's okay. I'm
(02:32):
not going to take that identity from you, but I
do want to say that your Spanish is really good. Yeah,
and I know that like folks that like, you know, um,
maybe Spanish wasn't their first language, or maybe they feel
a little insecure, self conscious speaking it, and like that's
that's like it's almost like the self fulfilling part because
then you don't speak it, so then it doesn't get
(02:53):
better because it really is a muscle memory like practice.
But then you're nervous, so then you don't practice, and
then it's just a cycle endings I call yeah, so
yeah who anyway and tee who. So we're back. We're
recording um and as always, we want to remind you
all of our lovely, beautiful collaborations that we have with
the number of Latina owned businesses. Yes, we have some
(03:13):
really great brand partnerships, sponsorships. As always, we continue to
have our sponsored our collaboration with blew me. You can
use our cold look ten to get ten percent off
of your sexual health and wellness products. They have been
sending us some really great items the past couple of
months and we just continue to rape about them, continue
(03:34):
to love them. Oh yeah, I'm just living for the
fact that I've just like I'm starting to have like
a vibrator collection, and I love it because I've never
been a collector of things, but I'm down to have
a collection of vibrators, you know. I just feel like
I've really leveled up because I've had a couple of
dildos in my life, like back in the day, and
now i have a rose Cords dildo, and I'm just like,
(03:58):
can I get any better than this? It's very Latin honestly,
I mean Latina Latin looks aesthetics. It's so funny. I love.
Twenty years from now, there's going to be some kind
of a mood board or something, the holographic pinterest of
the future, and this is going to be like Latin
(04:21):
x looks. Yes, cat rings, podcast, attire, Fashionova, highways to jeans,
all of it. Yes, love it, love it. Okay, So
you can check out and get your own Rose Course
dildo at the Blue Me or your own vibrator and
other products that they have such as um intimate care products,
(04:44):
the condoms, lubricants, tampons, pads, all of the goodies that
you want to use. They sent me this really great,
like very gentle like oil, the Lady Sweet Oils. I
love that one. Because and especially so for those of
you who, um, maybe if you wax or you get sugared,
(05:06):
or even if you shave down there. I have found
that for any whatever the hair removal process, like using
the oils down there, has just been really great, you know,
very gentle because you can buy like oils, like if
you at your waxing place, you know, to like prevent ingrowns.
I feel like this does the same the same job. Yes,
(05:27):
I love it. That's a really good oil. It feels
really great. It feels great. Our next Latina owned business
that we have a beautiful collaboration collaboration with is Viva Cosmetics.
You know they make all the bessel proof lippies I'm
currently weren't beautiful. It's one of their mate lipsticks. Yes,
it looks beautiful. So Locomotives get your Viva Cosmetic products
(05:52):
at fifteen percent off your order. The code is locomotives.
So once again, check out Viva Cosmetics with the code
locomotives for fifteen percent off your order. Yes, and remember
to donate to us if you have any extra funds
in your account. Um, get your man to donate to us. Yes,
actually I would pro for it if you find a
(06:13):
man to donate to it. I agree, Um, that would
actually be a really great way to finess someone at
a bar. I love that. Should probably just go out
and do that. Now, that should be a social experiment
that we do. How many men at the bar can
we get to donate to our podcast? That's actually really great.
It's a different kind of crowdfunding. I think that we
should do that, and I'm here for it. Yeah, all right,
(06:34):
so you can vendo us a look at that a
dash radio. If you recall our last coupy deal, we
shared a hot mess of a store we were in Chicago. Um,
and you know what, I'm not gonna like that may
happen again. It will probably happen again in the future.
I hope we're never that broke again. But let's be honest,
we probably will be that broke an. But maybe let's
put it out there that it won't happen again. But
(06:54):
life happens. Life happens, and no matter what that this is.
The thing is like, when you're resourceful, you can finesse
whatever zero dollars in my bank account. Bet we're still
going to have a great day. Right. You know, Sometimes
when I'm really broke. I like to think like you
know what, and I'm stressed about it. I like to
think like, you know what, I've done a lot more
with a lot less, you know, and that kind of
(07:15):
just keeps me grounded, like, Okay, I'm going to get
through this. I have, I'm good, it's gonna be fine. Fine.
And the funny thing too, is like with all the
different apps, so like you could have like your Venmo
and a little bit of a balance there, right, or
if you have different savings apps and maybe a little
bit of a balance there. I just feel like there's
these little money apps and then or if you have
(07:36):
a PayPal, you forget you have little pockets of money.
And that's happened with me. Yeah, It's like finding twenty
bucks in your literally in your literal genes, only it's digital.
It's digital, like, oh I did I have twenty dollars?
I could do anything? Yeah, you know. Mom and I
have been talking about how like when it comes to money,
it's almost like you don't you can't see it. So
I don't have like a well, I do have a
(07:56):
savings account, but I have I also use an application
that will take money and just save it for me
and I don't have to look at it. Um, and
that is one thing that I have used and been
able to save. It's not such it No, it's helpful.
It's hard to save money yea. Um. But yeah, anyways,
so hit the venmo look at dash radio. Thank you
to those who did donate after hearing that story. Um,
(08:18):
it might be a little loud in here because there's
a book reading going on. Um, we're really happy about
this book reading going on. But just f y I
and just a little reminder to like, subscribe and comment
on Apple podcast, listen on Spotify and audio boom, visit
our website, look at the radio dot com, and follow
us on Twitter. And I g at look at Underscore Radio. Yes,
(08:39):
love us out loud, y'all because the algorithm is working
with us. I was shadow band bitches and like listener
dm me to tell me that same DM that same
listener dammed me too. Um. I checked my d ms
later that day and I saw that it was very interesting. Well,
we're going to get into that right now. Right, so
we're going to get into our segment of Oya. Lookas
and y'all know that this is one of our favorite
(09:00):
segments Honestly, it's always a good time listen y'all, like
we want. I posted a little rant about this on
my story recently. We are a fem centered podcast, Survivor centered.
We really only have fems, queer folks, women on this
podcast as far as interviews go, like, we really don't
step outside of that. We have never had assist het
(09:22):
man on this podcast. We have never neither as a guest. Um, no,
we just haven't. Like they're just not our demographic, you
know what I mean. Outside of the project though, like
you know, men are people to like we recognize that,
Like I would like to be able to support and
pick up Latinos and men of color who are doing
(09:44):
cool things in the world. But we try, we'll try
and put our support behind someone and you know, the
internet is quick, and then right away someone lets us know, oh,
actually this Latino has allegations of sexual assault, rape of miners,
that that that that that, so we have to pull back.
So these are the questions we have to ask ourselves.
(10:07):
It's like, you know, the the the investment, it's a
risky investment, right, like the r o I s you know,
pretty low because it turns out that these men have
some type of skeleton in their closets, right, they're actually abusers,
they're perpetrators, they're you know, it's just it's a mess.
(10:27):
It's a mess. And it's just like why we don't
necessarily align ourselves with any men publicly, because then what
happens or even just you know, behind closed doors or
behind closed doors even in our private lives. We do
not align with men. No, I'm like, I don't even
align with my father loom Like, No, it's so true.
It's honestly safer and wiser, and I think a better
(10:50):
business and community cultivation practice to align ourselves with women, folks.
It's the only it's the only way, yeah, I mean,
and that isn't to say that like you know, blah
lah lah. Yes, women can be abusive to we know that.
I'm same, the same with queer folks, Like definitely. However,
the biggest perpetrators tend to be sis hetero men of
(11:12):
any type of abuse, any type of predatorial behavior, violence, violence,
rates of homicide. Yeah. So before anyone is like, well,
I don't know, don't even don't even you know that,
we recognize that, don't start don't do it. Don't start
with us. So yeah, and anyways, they also don't need
our little platform. Like like we've talked about, uh, women
(11:35):
of color we have a hard time getting written about,
We have a hard time getting pressed. Men do not
have the same difficulties. Yeah, there are plenty of Latino
X journal Latino journalists. Have they ever hit us up
or emailed us? Absolutely not, absolutely not. So if that's
you listening, fucking send us an email, send us an email,
send us an email. Once again, we will we will
(11:56):
discuss the fact that only women of color have written
about us, only women of colorjournalists have written about us
our interview guys, who's coming up next has more to
talk about with that regard with press and journalism and
women of color getting um right ups or not. And
so this is another reason why we focus on women
of color is because men just have far more access
(12:16):
in the journalism space, in media coverage. They don't need
our little fucking platform to get their project off the ground.
So that's also to say, if you are a straight
man and you've been deming us your work, don't because
we're not going to look at it. We're not going
to bring you on the podcast. This is not for you. Know,
like you know, there's plenty of other podcasts and you know,
collective spaces for y'all to be featured in, and this
(12:38):
is just not the one. This is it, you know,
go literally anywhere else? Yeah literally yeah, yeah, Okay. Anyway,
So going back to AYR Loca. Oh yes, the question right,
So the question is, UM, what books are you currently reading? Yes,
so UM, thank you for this question. So right now,
(12:58):
I've been reading UM by Amandel Cantata. And Amandeal Cantata
is a journalist, one of the women of color journalists
right who's out here doing the damn thing. And Amanda
Um writes and reports for UM Media with Maria you know, Josa.
(13:23):
And Amanda Um published this book, Chula, and she sent
us a couple of copies. So I read it and
I loved it. And what I really loved about Amanda's
book Tula is the way that she weaves in her
Dominican Spanish into all of the poetry and the pros
and the memoir and it really gives it UM just
a really different energy when you're reading it, when you're
(13:45):
walking through it UM. The way that she lays out
visuals and she describes things. It really is very beautiful.
So I really enjoyed reading it. Yeah, I've picked it
up and I haven't finished it, but I do like
how she also incorporates like music to it, and like
if you can definitely feel it even though you're reading it.
It's like you can only I don't know, you can
definitely just feel like the presence of the music and
(14:07):
the culture within the store, within the poems. Yeah, it's beautiful.
And I also like the way, similarly, how she jumps
between English and Spanish and English and Dominican Spanish specifically.
She also her upbringing, which she details in the book,
is one of jumping between the United States and d
R Right, So like having this experience having lived in
(14:31):
both places um and back and forth, back and forth,
and her mother being back and forth. And I think
that's interesting as far as like identity development and culture
and making friends and community. She talks a lot about
like um, first love and first lust and her first
time and things like that. Uh, this is a survivor
centered podcast, and Amanda in Chula also talks about like
(14:54):
some stocking that she's experienced, right and going into detail
about that and how that affected her. So I was
just really appreciated the body of work. Um. I thought
it was really beautifully done. And we want to thank
Amanda for sending us to read. Yes, thank you so much,
Amanda for sending those copies over. We love to support
women of color, artists, poets, all of the swords, you know. Um,
(15:17):
and yeah, it's just really amazing to see all of
the work that women are out here doing. Um. And
you know, especially I really like to see work by latina's. Well,
I like to see all work by latina's obviously, but
I you know, I can enjoy as like a Latina
living in l A, like reading the work of latinas
on the East coast of the of Caribbean descent. You know,
(15:39):
I just think it's it's also such an important narrative
to have within the conversations that we may not have
direct access to. Not that Caribbeans aren't out here, but
just thinking about the communities that I'm in, like on
my Provian side and maybe on the Mexican Chicano side,
you know what I mean. So being able to see
read a different type of narrative. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, und percent.
(16:00):
And I think also to like, you know, um, Dominicans
in the United States have just been really making their
presence known and their impact, and whether it's Dominicans who
are on the East Coast or Dominicans out here in
l A. Like you know, Dominicans and Dominicanos are really
like pushing culture and pushing things for it. I mean
I think of like, obviously there's uh the kid Marrow
(16:24):
just suck killing the game. We got Julisa, Julisa Danco
da Polanco. There's plenty more. There's plenty more. I mean, Amanda, Amanda,
you know, of course Dominican side of Kelly um Milania, Yes,
Luisa who is a poet as well, who's um uh
(16:46):
poet and friends with Yes, And I don't know, there's
just so many d nasty I was going to say
CLOUDI off, she runs the Mammy Chola Social Club in
New York. Very cool, very like, just so many like
dope dominica us in the game really like, as you're saying,
creating culture, just making moves and yeah, it's just super
cool to see, very cool to see. So keep it up.
(17:08):
We love it, we support we support um and all
that to say, if you are an artist or a
creator and you're a woman of color, you're a fem
of color and you're interested in maybe having your work
discussed the review'm you know d MS emails radio dot com. Yeah,
email us ola at look, I thought our radio dot
(17:28):
com and we'll see what's up. But we'll see what
we can do. Yeah, definitely. Um, one of the books
that I just finished reading is you know, Sabrina and Cordina.
So I'm really excited that we actually get to interview
the author today the second half of the interview. UM,
this book kind of just fell into my lap via
social media because I was just looking for something to
read and I had just ordered Poet X by Elizabeth
(17:52):
Another Dominicana, and I was just looking for something I
wanted to read something fiction. Short fiction is actually one
of like my first loves when it comes to literature,
and I wanted to read something by a Latina author.
And I just saw a couple of people I think, yes,
he guy for example, shared this book and that's just
really how I came across it and just completely was
enamored by her work. So definitely recommend that book. I've
(18:15):
shared it on my Instagram a couple of times, and
I mean, we're going to get to interview the author
right now. Super exciting, Yeah, super exciting. So it just
so happens, um that the author of you Know Sabrin
is here ambol Heights doing a book reading and assigning
at a spa. She's actually like doing it right now
(18:35):
as a record as a record, So we're gonna bring
her on to talk about her process and her work
and her origins and all that good stuff. Yeah, yeah, alright,
So I think we have one final question, and it's
about Instagram and what do we think about the recent
changes in Instagram? What is being shadow band mean? And
(18:57):
how are we dealing with the algorithm? So we've noticed,
and I think other of our friends who have run accounts,
small businesses, projects, who are creatives have also noticed like
really low engagement across platforms, but especially on Instagram, really
low engagement. And I think there's multiple things happening. So
I think, on the one hand, like I think every
(19:18):
platform has its heyday and then a decline, and I
think Instagram has now been around for long enough and
has been impactful enough that we could maybe be just
seeing that decline in the platform itself. A Facebook effect
and MySpace effect. It happens, that's one thing, the other pieces.
(19:38):
They are constantly making changes, like to the algorithm and
what pushes the content onto someone's timeline or discover page.
It's changing, it's changing, changing, um and I think it's
just I think we're going to step into an era
of Instagram and Facebook because they're owned by the same
Facebook owned Instagram, right. I think what we're going to
(19:59):
see is just a lot more paid content. So it's
going to be more difficult for indie creators to really
put their stuff out there because they're going to have
to to get a lot of traction with their posts,
because they're going to have to start paying for ads,
which is not feasible for indie creators. You know, we
just did our first actual in the three years we've
never done a paid ad. We did our paid a
(20:19):
paid ad for the brunch that we're hosting, just to
kind of test it out and be like, does this
even work? Is this an investment? I didn't actually see
any significant difference in traction it did. I did see
from the analytics that it did reach a lot of
people that were necessarily following us, but that doesn't necessarily
translate the ticket sales, you know, because I mean I
(20:41):
don't know about y'all, but like, I don't know if
I'm going to go to a brunch for folks that
I don't know, you know what I mean. Like the
community that comes out are y'all our listeners, and y'all
bring your people that become new listeners, you know what
I mean. So I don't know if that necessarily works
for us, but we tested it out just to see it,
and I don't think GET really made a difference. Neither
(21:01):
do I UM. I think that part of the reason
why the project has worked is because, like we've talked about,
but our base, our demographic is mostly Latina as women
of color in general, and the way that we find
out about things is by word of mouth and by
telling each other. So somebody told somebody check out, check
this out, brought them in, invited them into the space,
(21:23):
and now we're community. So the ads has just never
been really part of our business model. It really hasn't
getting strategy at all. No, no, So I just yeah,
it's I don't know if sad is the right word.
It's more disappointing to see that it's going to become
even more It is already becoming more difficult for indie
creators to get their stuff out there. But I think
(21:45):
it's also a really important reminder that we can't use
just one platform that we don't actually even own to
like get our followers, to get our community. Like it's
just I think just shows us that we really need
to own whatever it is that we're creating and where
we're putting it. You know so, I think like our
website isn't really fully um it's not fully complete. Like
(22:10):
our website is just it's up and running. You can
get like the basics of like where to catch our
next event, where to listen to our latest, but it's
definitely not done, you know. So I just think it's
an important reminder that, like, wherever you're going to have
your content live, like make sure that it's somewhere that
you own it, if that's a website, a newsletter, whatever
that may be. Because at the end of the day,
(22:31):
like we don't own Instagram. No. Digital real estate is
a real thing. Digital real estate is a real thing.
And it's like right now we're like renting or borrowing
our space on i g um, and you know it
was only going to be free for so long because
nothing is truly free. No, And then I think it's
like they saw like the impact Instagram and Facebook like
(22:52):
saw the impact and like, oh, we can actually be
making money off of this free account because yeah, sure
it's free to have an account, but now to actually
get traction with your with your post, with your feed, like, well,
you're gonna have to pay an ad yeah, And I, um,
you know, so on the topic of shadow banning, right,
So I got a d M. Um, so we each
got d m s and from a follower listener who's
(23:16):
been supporting us for a few years now and who's
just kind of been around, and uh, he said, you know,
I haven't been seeing your post on my feed. I
think you've been shadow banned. So I screen shot that
d M and I sent it to the l side
and we're like, what the fund is shadow banning? So
the aside doesn't search for like a definition what a
(23:37):
shadow banning? Let me pull that up. Um. Well, also,
you know, it became kind of apparent what was going
on because yesterday as well, I saw Joanna from the
Unapologetically Brown Girl or unapologically Street series. She um shared
(23:57):
something about that, and it says creatives don't let algorithms
discourage you from creating and sharing your purpose, your work.
Your reach is bigger than Instagram. It's in the folks
you've touched and the incredible gift within you that continues
to grow and deserves to be made. Absolutely and and
then the caption is Instagram is playing everybody's shadow, banning accounts,
(24:18):
deleting accounts, specifically POC centered accounts. Right. So this is
a thing, right because multiple people are noticing um listener
like d m s s to tell us about it.
I've had other friends tell me I didn't even know
this event was going on. I haven't seen your stuff
in my timeline at all. So it says Instagram shadow
band is a band that renders your hashtags undiscoverable by
(24:40):
the vibrant users. Only your followers will be able to
see your feed, and not the entire Instagram community. It's
easy to know if you've been shadow band. Search your
post under the tags and see if they appear. So
I did that. I went and I searched hashtag. Look
at our radio our hashtag? So I go to search
it and I see that the top posts, but the
(25:02):
top post under the hashtag we're not from the look
at the account, like the first three interesting our post
that like Julisa's when she posted our flyer, hers was
the first one that came wow, and she has a
big account and that yeah, and even though like that
flyer was posted a while ago. Now this week when
I checked, hers was the first and I had a
(25:24):
recent post. My most recent post is from Cat Dahlia's
interview and I had hashtag look at the radio. So
I checked the hashtag look at our radio. My post
is not up there. Interesting, So I'm like, yeah, a
bitch has been shadow bands and like, I don't know
how it happens or what how do you get swept
up in it? Into it? All this to say, if
you're creating, if you're using Instagram, don't keep all your
(25:47):
ship on there by yourself a website started Google slides like,
start to archive your stuff elsewhere and let people know
where else they can find you. We're really lucky because
we do have like we have Apple podcasts. We have
to you a boom like our content. The actual podcast
is not located on Instagram. It's just where we share
about the podcast and we've cultivated community there. So you know,
(26:10):
just thinking about your own work like, how can you
decentralize it from I definitely necessary? Alrighty, So we're going
to move into a quick shout out from our sponsors.
If you can hear getting a little loud, that's is
talking in the background. He's introduing Gali because she does
have a book signing right now. So we're going to
(26:30):
move on to a word from our sponsors. You scroll down,
it should be there, it's not there. Therapy Yeah, okay,
so we wanted to shout out one of our sponsors,
Therapy for latin X. She is a online database making
(26:51):
it easy to find a latin X therapist, mental health advocate,
or counselor in your area. And you know, we're all
about the mental a glow up globe in every way,
and we really think it's really a valuable resource to
have a Latino Center directory for mental health. So make
sure you check out the registry, yes, and find a
(27:12):
therapist near you. Yeah, definitely. You know, having a therapist
that you can culturally relate with and understand is really important,
So definitely check out Therapy for latin X. Yes, So
we are going to move into a song break. We
want to introduce our guest, our interview guys before we
get into our song break, because we do have a
(27:32):
really exciting author with us today. Yes, so we have
the author Callie Fajardo and Steen, and she is from Denver, Colorado.
Her fiction has appeared in the American Scholar, Boston Review,
Bellevue Literary Review, the Idaho Review, Southwestern American Literature, and elsewhere.
She is going to be talking about her new book,
(27:53):
Sabrina and Corina. So Callie's magnetic story collection breathes life
into her indigenous Latina characters and the land they inhabit,
set against the remarkable backdrop of Denver, Colorado, a place
that is as fierce as it is exquisite. These women
navigate the land the way they navigate their lives, with caution, grace,
(28:14):
and quiet force. So we're gonna bring Kali on or
Casa bell Ros and and and and and and and
and and and and and um um um um um
(28:54):
um um um of it and all right, and we
are back. We are so excited to be welcoming Gali
into the studio today. Hi hi, hi, thank you for
joining us. Can you please just give our listeners a
(29:16):
quick intro For those of our listeners who maybe are
new to your work. Awesome, Yeah, I'd love to. Um. So,
my name is Collie Fajardo Anstein and I'm from Denver, Colorado.
I am the author of the debut short story collection
Sabrina and Corina, that was just published in April from
One World Penguin Random House. UM. I have been writing
(29:37):
stories since I was a child. I've always wanted to
be a writer, and um yeah, I'm just so excited
to have my first book in the world. And I
also have a novel that will be published student from
One World, Um probably the next year or two. That
is amazing. I am a big fan of your work.
Recently finished Sabrina and Corina and just immediately fell in love.
(29:58):
And you're actually here today for a book side naing
correct and a reading. Yeah, I'm so excited. So it's
kind of funny. Um. Back in like I don't know,
I was like fifteen or sixteen years old, I had
a friend on my Space that now is my friend
on Instagram that's like followed me throughout my my social
media life. But he was like, you have to get
into this place called Espasio. So I started like looking
(30:18):
into Espasio a long time ago. So it's just sort
of like coincidental and blissful that I get to be
here and give a reading today. I'm really excited. I
love that, and I love how full circle that is
because we talk about our social media usage all the
time and like meeting each other on Instagram and meeting
other creatives online and how like it just brings great
(30:39):
minds together. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, And Yosima is
actually the one that organized all of this, correct, is
that your friend or is that just no? I used
my friend now the internet of course, So so two
people really like kind of orchestrated, yes in a way, right. Yeah.
And a lot of what I've seen Sabrina and Karna
(31:00):
being posted online and things, it's just a lot of
the push behind this book has come from the bottom
up instead of like coming from huge media outlets telling
people what to like. I'm seeing it on social media
and I think that's where that's where it lives, and
that's where I'm happy to live to. I mean, we
can definitely relate to that to like the community really
(31:20):
pushing you and pushing your work forward, and um, a
lot of stuff for a lot of our art, a
lot of our work is shared via word of mouth,
So even the post is somewhat like a digital word
of mouth, right, people sharing it, posting it, and then
other people looking into it, following it, loving it, sharing
it again. That Yeah, Yeah, I'm really interested in hearing
(31:40):
more from you about like the role that that sort
of model you described, pushing from the bottom, how that
role in mash with social media and the internet has
gotten you to where you are today in the process. Yeah,
so it's kind of interesting. So in the literary world,
I haven't had like the big publications like The New
York or The Atlantic. I've had really good publications, but
(32:03):
I haven't had like the giant magazines. And a lot
of the time the hype will come from New York
City as the center and then trickled down from there um.
And there were times when I was like super depressed
over this, like I have to quit writing. I can't
get into these magazines, I can't get into this space.
But what's ended up happening is I was able to
get into on Random House, which is, you know, obviously
(32:24):
like one of the biggest publishers in the world. I
think it is the biggest publisher in the world. Thank you,
and that was like this huge moment in my life,
and I think that distribution and having all those eyes
on my book really helped. But then I needed to
still have that grassroots push because I still wasn't getting
in these big, big magazines and these big outlets. So
(32:46):
there were times when I was like, the book had
just come out, I wasn't seeing a lot of I
wasn't seeing any national coverage. But what ended up happening
are you know, big social media influencers like the Locals
podcast us, and they started pushing my book and posting
out on stories. And then from that, you know, Latina
(33:06):
actresses were starting to push my book and post it
and from there I was just seeing sort of spontaneous
wildfire of like, we love this book, We're going to
take this book under our wings, and no one told
us to like it. We like it ourselves. Before we
started recording, UM, we kind of started having a conversation
about journalists and newsrooms and if there are no people
(33:30):
of color in the newsroom, no women of color in particular,
are projects by women of color going to be covered.
So it just seems like what you just shared, how
many Latinas are at the New Yorker writing stories about
Latina authors. Yeah, we we don't know. I don't I
don't know. I don't think it's very many. But I
will tell you something that's interesting that happened. So I
(33:50):
was profiled on Bustle and that was my biggest at
the time that happened. That was like my biggest coverage.
It was a Latina editor who found it and pushed it.
And what about for the New York Times because I
know you were featured? Was that also a Latina writer?
She was a woman of color. Yeah, she was a
woman of color. And one thing I did know about
the review, which I'm very happy with it. Um, it's
(34:11):
one percent of books ever published again in New York Times,
So I am very stoked in that one. But she
did not mention that my characters are Latina's and I
thought that was very interesting. Um. So I'm in these pages,
but I'm still like, we don't know what this is,
you know, interesting. So basically our hypothesis is just proven correct,
(34:34):
yeah continuously. Um. So you know, you have your debut novel,
your I mean your debut short stories, um, and I
like am so enamored with the book, with all of
the short stories because you really just you're writing about women,
and you're writing about their stories and what, of course
what they go through, and there's almost this underlying tone
(34:55):
of violence against women, but how it's just so normalized
and you know, be because we're a survivor podcast, we
are a fem centered podcast. I wanted to discuss that
and what that process was like for you writing about
these women, writing about these stories, but also, um, still
having some sense of power and being empowered through it. Yeah, definitely.
(35:17):
So that's one of the questions I get a lot,
And you know, the truthful answer is I had to
write about what I knew, and I grew up watching
a lot of violence. I grew up steeped in generations
of violence, hearing stories that I didn't really understand why
I was being told those stories, And later I thought, Okay,
maybe this is some instructions for my own life or
a warning or that kind of thing. Um. But being
(35:40):
around violence makes you feel very isolated and lonely because
you're not able to always go and share with somebody,
especially when you're taught don't tell anybody what's happening, don't
talk about this. UM. So I think in some ways,
writing Sabrina and Karina in a story like Sabrina and Krena,
for example. You know, there was a woman in my
my community who had been killed when she was fifteen
(36:02):
years old, and I remember being a little girl going
to her funeral and just not having anywhere to put
that pain like what. I couldn't talk to my family
about it. It was just something I had to accept.
So I think in some ways, writing this book and
talking about a lot of the violence that I have
witnessed in my own life and that people have told
me that they have they have come from it, healed
(36:23):
me in some ways, and I'm hoping by being able
to share these stories, it's creating healing out in the world,
um larger than just me. And some of the you know,
some of the comments I've gotten is this book is
too sad, or why are you focusing on all this violence?
And you know, the basic answer that I can give
is that I have to make what I have the
(36:44):
compulsion and the obsession to make, and it comes out
of a deep place, and it comes from generations of pain,
and this is all I you know, Hopefully my work
will start to take on different tones as I grow
as an artist. But this is the first one, and
this is what I have to share with the world.
Love it. I mean, I wonder too, um because it
sounds like the writing is so personal and it's come
(37:06):
from like sourced over the years. If there were any
family or community members who like had difficulties with these
stories being shared on such a large scale. Yeah, So
I think it's kind of interesting. Because I write fiction,
I'm able to have this mask over what's happening. And
I actually like one of my cute little stories of
growing up is I I kept a diary for years
(37:28):
and years and my mom found it and I was
talking about like wanting to kill myself because the boy
didn't like me, and just like emotions to me that
were normal, and she was so upset, like she was like,
we're gonna have to put you in therapy all these things.
And I thought, Oh, if I'm going to get in
trouble for talking about these real emotions, I'm going to
start lying. And that's when I started writing fiction. Um. So,
(37:50):
I think in some ways people aren't able to see
where I'm pulling from. So a lot of my work
their composites of my own life organized in a way
that serves the plot of the story. UM. So the
story Sisters that set in the nineteen fifties, um where
a character is brutally attacked, that is based on one
of my ancestors. That was based on my antidote. She
(38:12):
died before I was born. I never met her, but
I felt hurt. I could feel her spirit, I could
feel her talking through me. But I moved the story around.
I moved the plot around, and in that way, I
think I'm honoring her by sharing this violent act that
happened to her. But I'm also, you know, not revealing
things that I don't even know about. You know, I
have to be able to create art um from all
(38:34):
these different, these different facets in a way. Yeah, you know.
And I think hearing you talk, what I'm hearing is
healing the ancestral trauma through the artwork, which I think
is kind of the mood of all artists right now,
at least artists of color. Right That's definitely I feel
a conversation that's being had is how can we collectively
(38:55):
heal all of this ancestral trauma through our art, through
our poetry, through whatever means. You know. Yeah, It's something
I didn't even know I had, you know, like it
wasn't like I was like eight years old and I
was like, oh, here's the story about anti Toti being
blinded again, that concestral trauma. I did not know what
that was. It was just some sort of story my
auntie would launch into every once in a while. And
(39:17):
my mom has these, you know, these stories of violence
as she went through that she would just launch into.
And I didn't know what PTSD was, you know, I
didn't have the vocabulary for it. Yeah, And I think
that that's like similar, Um, like in our families, where
are the women? And our families will tell these really
share these really intense stories and then move on to
something else, as if it's not intense, you said, if
you weren't just like going through something hearing that story. Um,
(39:40):
And yeah, I mean there's definitely something there. There's something
too at to that. Yeah. I think. Um. I consider
like the violence against women that especially women of color
experience generationally, that we almost um come to look at
it as very normal and like, well, these are just
the social dynamics that we live with. And I think
(40:01):
it takes a lot to actually stand in it and
say not actually this is sucked up, Like, let's talk
about it in specific terms. Let's call it violence, let's
call it aggression, and let's call it abuse, like, let's
name it for what it is, right, Like, my grandmother
will just be passing under her breath, Like there's a
story that she'll share randomly, and it's not when she
(40:21):
tells it, it doesn't seem traumatizing to her, but it's
about how she ended up having to pistol whips some guy.
You know, well, what was he doing? I don't know
what happened. I don't know, but it must have been bad, right,
But it's very just in passing just under her breath.
And so to take things like that and then build
the picture around it, right, And it sounds like that's
sort of what you've done with your book. Yeah, And
(40:43):
I love that you both were like, you know what,
I'm talking about these stories like this, and I am
also I'm fascinated with storytelling. So storytelling comes up in
every single story, the way that story moves between families,
the way that tales are distorted. Um In Sabrina and Karna,
the grandmother a character. You know, she's a pillar of strength,
but she's also pushing this um this violence in a
(41:05):
way by just you know, we're going to tell a
story about it. Now. You know, she they say in
that family, Sabrina didn't love herself enough and she loved
men too much. I mean, these are actual phrases I
heard people in my family say. And then they just
move on. They're like, oh, yeah, well, this is what's
on TV right now. That that's definitely like the victim
blaming narrative, right It's like, oh, she, you know, she
(41:26):
was a you know what else? What else did really
really see coming? You know? So, Um, I'm wondering if
you have any anything you want to share about the
journey from beginning to writing to getting it published. Because
there's a lot of Latina creatives who listened to our podcast. Um,
you know, we're an indie project. A lot of the
women in our community have like their small businesses, their poets,
(41:48):
they're writing, their actresses, they're performing. What would you like
to share with with folks like that who are trying
to get their work off the ground. My biggest advice
is not to give up. And the reason I say
this is because there were so many times I was
on the brink of just like, I can't do this.
I'm running out of money, nobody will publish me, I'm
(42:08):
being told that my my work is not good enough
for these certain kinds of magazines. And there were just
so many times that I felt like I have to
stop UM and just you know, try to find strengthen
yourself and during those times, and take solace in the
stories of those whom you admire, those artists and creatives
who have succeeded, because very few of us get there
(42:30):
from zero to one hundred, like we have so many
stops along the way, and then it seems like you've
gone really far um in a short amount of time,
but you can't see the trail leading up to that
and how jagged it was. UM. So one of the
stories that I've shared is that there was a time
in my life where I had dropped out of my
(42:51):
first m f A program, my first creative writing program.
And I'm a high school dropout, so I already had
the stigma in my family and you know, this dropout
that quits things over and over again. But the reason
why I had I had dropped out. And this is
something that I just started sharing recently because a former
student of mine said, why don't you tell the truth.
I had been attacked by a male student in my program.
I went to the administration. They said they would not
(43:13):
remove him from my classes. And I was like, I'm
gonna I'm gonna end my writing career here like this
is there's no space for me. I can't get any
in anywhere else. Um, So I dropped out. I went
back home to Colorado and Sandra Cisneros was reading at
my college campus. And I had been so depressed over
that decision to leave, and she was. She was up
(43:34):
there giving a reading, and then she stopped and she
talked about how she had been so depressed at times
in her career that she had even considered suicide. And
I thought, if she would have done that, I wouldn't
have had one of my major guiding lights. So think
about yourself is like you are a guiding light. You
just don't know it yet, and you are like revealing
the path for so many people coming behind you. Thank
(43:56):
you for sharing that. That's beautiful. Yeah, thank you so
much for sharing that. That's that's important because I you know,
often we see so much of the successes, we see
the amazing press coverage, the amazing reviews, like I know
sans she's on the back of your book, she like
left a review, I gave you a review. So, but
also to hold space for the really difficult times in
(44:18):
the creative process and throughout the careers. Right, Yeah, it's not.
I mean it's so up and down from day to day,
and then once your work is in the world, you
have to be prepared for how the public is going
to respond, which causes a whole new set of insecurities
and emotions that you didn't even know you could deal with.
So I think the path prepares you for what you're
(44:42):
facing when you actually make it to where you think
you need to be, and the I mean the path
is ongoing. You never truly make it. You always have
made it, but you never truly make it. Yeah. Absolutely,
that's I felt that. I'm like the whole last like
two or three minutes, I'm like, okay, I need I
need a drink. It's good though, No, yes, it's exciting,
(45:03):
Like there's always more work to be done, there's new
obstacles to overcome. Um, I'm curious about like things like
respectability politics, when you go from being independent and then
now like you're saying the work is out there, it
is being covered, it is being picked up people responding
to it. How have you have you failed to shift
in how you carry yourself or how you talk or
(45:25):
I'm really interested in that that process. This is funny.
Like an old friend of mine, he he runs a
boxing gym in Denver. He like DM me and he's like,
you always look so fine now, And I was like, okay,
I was like yeah, I was like but he I
was like, I have to go and be a public
person now, Like it's like I have to go and
dress myself up and you know, present myself. So just
(45:47):
like you know, that shift and knowing that I am public,
that when I give a reading there's going to be
I hope, like ten cell phones at least, like recording me,
taking photos and just having that awareness, but also being
more mindful of what I say, um and making sure
that I don't say harmful things, that I don't say
things that show some of the ignorance that I grew
up with that I have had to work hard to
(46:07):
get rid of, and owning a lot of my shortcomings
and just being honest about who I am and that
way I don't come across as somebody who thinks are
better than they are or arrogant anything like that. I
just I am here to help other people with my
work and knowing that and using that as my guide,
that is what That's what I'm trying to do and
(46:29):
put that work into the world and put that energy
into the world. That's beautiful. You have such a beautiful spirit,
just like sitting across from you, like you're just so
beautiful inside and out. Since we're talking about the d
M S, I wonder, I wonder, um, do you feel
that people from you already eve one example, like the
(46:50):
men from either your hometown or you grew up are
now in the d M slash our fans in the
d M S, and like, how do you navigate that?
So I this is like a new thing for me.
So for a long time on Instagram, rested like at
a thousand followers, and now it's like increasing exponentially, and
I'm like, well, what's going on? There's so many eyes, um,
(47:12):
But I try to respond. I literally try to respond
to every nice note, to every picture at least with
like a heart or tap or something, just to let
them know I see you, I see you engaging with
my work. Because like I said, this is coming from
the bottom up. It's not coming from everybody was like, oh,
this is a New York time supposed tollar. I have
to get that book. So just making sure that my
readers and my my fans know that I support them
(47:33):
and I care about them. Um. But again, I think
that social media it has become a job for me
in a lot of ways. So I need to be
writing a novel. You guys like I have another book
coming out, and so there have been times where I'm like,
I can't go in line today. It's going to be
too much of a time sec. It's going to take
away from my creative energy. And so holding sort of
like office hours like when I was a professor or
(47:56):
a lecturer. I wasn't not a professor. When I was
a lecturer, I would have my office hours, and I
kind of think of the same way, like d ms
are open right now, this is when I'll respond to
this window. And I did my first ask me anything
on Instagram the other day and I just set aside
time that day and this is what we're going to
engage with and this is how you know it's going
to be very cool. I love that I think we
(48:19):
should borrow that idea of the office hours, that's when
we respond to the messages and the d M. That's
a great idea. Yeah, we'll give credit. UM. I had
another question and just left my mind. Well, okay, I'm
kind of jumping back again. But you know, you share
the story about experiencing basically gender based violence in your
(48:40):
program and how that affected your education the trajectory, and
you know, I think this is a survivor centered podcast.
We do talk about sexual assault violence against women quite
often when it's relevant, right, And I think it's um
really interesting to discuss like the me too movement in
all these different industries and fields. So we had a
musician here the other day. We talked about the me
(49:00):
too movement in the music industry. So I'm wondering if
on your end, if this is something that are people
talking about this, is there a shift in behavior or
men behaving better? Are people afraid? Like what is going on?
Tell us? Yeah? So there definitely has been a me
too movement in UM literature. There's been some major figures
(49:22):
who were taken down UM like Juno Dias, Sherman Alexei.
And it's kind of interesting because the Sherman Alexei thing.
It's like you still see his books everywhere, and I
think it's kind of similar with the dias situation. Um.
What it's done, I think on a personal level is
my network now is mostly women of color, and we're
(49:43):
able to support each other without having to outsource two men.
And my editor is a woman of color. Yeah, my
editor is a woman of color, my agents a Jewish woman,
and I just I feel like it's very rare. If
you look at the blurbs on my book, I have
one man. There's one man who blurbed me, and so
(50:03):
it kind of feels like, I don't I don't need
to interact with you as much as I thought I
had to in order to get to where I need
to be. Nobody's asking me who I slept with to
get this book published, because because they can look and
see like, oh, she just loved with a bunch of women,
I guess to get this book published. Um. So yeah,
I think it's just it's created a space where there
can be a lot more women supporting women, and we
(50:26):
don't have to defer to positions of power that were
traditionally held by men. Um. There was a very there's
a very famous literary journal, to Paris Review. For years
and years a lot of people had heard stories of
the former editor. He was taken out by the Me
Too movement. He was somebody who rejected my stories in
the past. So maybe maybe I have I can try again.
(50:47):
You should definitely try again. So just seeing women take
on positions of power in the literary world, that's been
super exciting. I don't think a book like mine would
have the traction it has um prior to Me Too,
and that I'm just I'm really excited about that. I'm
sorry that women are being able to have, you know,
bigger say in literature. Yeah, it's really exciting because it's
(51:10):
kind of like plot twist. We don't actually need men
to make our projects or business is successful. There are millions,
billions of women in the world who have jobs, who
are consumers, who read. I can imagine that's a podcast
to invest on their own. We don't need really men
investing in that way. No, And I was, you know,
(51:30):
I was reading this statistic recently about just let the power,
the buying power that Latinas have just in general, and
how when a Latina finds a product or something that
she likes, she will literally share it with every single
you know. So going back to the word of mouth,
it's like Latina's really truly like our culture shifters, influencers
(51:51):
and their own right without having like the big Instagram,
blue check or you know what I mean, Like really
are moving the markets. Whether white people want to see
it or not, but I think that they are paying
attention now to the to the power and the influence
that we have. Yeah, one of the coolest things I
have seen. So a lot of my readings have been
in non traditional spaces because I don't have a budget
for a tour from the publisher, like I fund my
(52:13):
own tour. So it's out of the question for me
to fly to Houston and just do a reading at
a bookstore. It has to be a purposeful choice. Um,
but something that's been really interesting. So I've done um
community theater for Latina's where I've had a book club meeting,
and I did a recent book club meeting and this
this young Latina she brought she bought five books. It's
(52:34):
a lot of money, Okay, it's a lot, and she
was like signed signed into all my friends, like all
my home girls get a book. And I'm like what,
And I've had like little old men come and buy
one for all their daughters. I'm like, you can read
it too. But that's adorable. Yeah, that's amazing. Damn, we're
really out here. It's so exciting. It's so freaking exciting.
(52:57):
And I'm wondering, Um, so you did mention you have
a novel that you're working on. Is there any teasers
that you would like to share about your upcoming work? Yeah?
So my So, my upcoming novel is basically, I took
the family migration story from northern New Mexico southern Colorado
to Denver and I fictionalized it. And I knew I
wanted to tell the story since I was a little girl,
(53:19):
because again, this was one of the stories that the
elders just told over and over again, the big walk,
like when we left the country where we were the
majority and we came up to the city and it
was a completely different landscape. Um. So it is a
story that starts in eighteen ninety and it looks at
this sort of genesis generation, their wild West performers, their
(53:40):
native Mexican and then they start mixing with Europeans and
then because of racial violence. They're sort of a fall
with that generation, and then it takes a look at
the next generation living in Denver in the nineteen thirties
during the depression. UM, and I'm really excited because there's
so many people. It doesn't happen very often. But a
big reason I'm creating the work I'm creating is because
(54:02):
I felt invisible my whole life. I felt like people
didn't know we existed. People from northern New Mexico, southern
Colorado that you know, have this complicated ancestry. And I'm
just really excited that I get to have this national,
international platform to talk about my ancestors and my heritage
and when I come from beautiful that's amazing. So thank
(54:23):
you so much for chatting with us today. For folks
that want to support your book, UM, that want to
purchase one, that want to follow you, where can they
do that? So the best way to purchase my book
is to ask your independent bookstore to carry it. If
they don't already carry it. Most independent bookstores will do
special orders. UM. You can also get it online through
the traditional places, but I'd like to suggest bookstores. UM.
(54:46):
I'm really active on Instagram and it's CALLI maha um
k A l I m A j A and you
can kind of follow me on Twitter, but like I
don't really like the GRAMA is where it's at. Definitely
all right, Well this has in another cup. You look
at thought. Our radio is always you know where to
find us on Apple, on Spotify, on audio Boom, check
(55:06):
us out on Instagram at look at Underscore radio, hit
our Venmo, look at the dash radio. Check out the
website radio dot com. You know what to do. You
know what to do already, look at what as. We
will catch you next times
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