January 17, 2025 • 60 mins
Guest: Jordan Moore, User Experience Librarian at the Georgia Tech Library.
First broadcast January 17 2025. Transcript at https://hdl.handle.net/1853/77029
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(00:00):
AARON SCHMIDT [clip] (00:02):
So again, thanks for being here
and let's get started.
So I have titled thispresentation Useful, Usable,
and Desirable.
This is a bit of a Holy Trinitywith user experience design.
And I think it's anunparalleled framework
for thinking about our librariesand assessing them and improving
them.
We have a lot of thingsgoing on in our buildings,
(00:23):
whether it's a public libraryor academic library or school
library.
Libraries arecomplicated things.
Even simple tasks havea lot of moving parts.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:56):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in theStacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett inthe studio with-- well,
it's everybody.
We've been gone so long.
I'm so glad to see you all.
Alex, Marlee, Fred, Cody,a guest to be named later.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
(01:19):
Whichever you're herefor, we hope you dig it.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:21):
Our show today is called "Improve the Situation,"
which sounds likea pretty good plan.
It is an introduceyourself show,
in which we give ourlisteners a chance
to meet someone who has recentlybecome part of the Georgia Tech
Library faculty.
ALEX MCGEE (01:35):
Today we're talking with our new user experience
librarian.
That's a positionthat's only been
held by two other librariansat Georgia Tech library,
one of whom used tobe part of the show.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:45):
Hey, Ameet.
ALEX MCGEE (01:46):
There are many ways to define user experience,
and I'm not going to slow downthe show with any dictionary
definitions orWikipedia summaries.
I'll just say that whenyou use the library,
you have to interactwith something,
an object, an interface,a person, a web page,
and who knows what else.
And that experienceis pretty important,
part of how the library works.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:04):
And the user experience librarian
is very interested in howthat interaction goes for you.
FRED RASCOE (02:09):
And our songs today are
about finding the bestway to do something,
improving a situation, andlearning things in a new place.
Figuring out a new workenvironment is tricky.
And when you're alsotrying to figure out
the needs of a usercommunity at the same time,
that's just a puzzle.
So let's start with"Puzzles Like You"
by the Mojave Three righthere on Lost in the Stacks.
(02:32):
[MOJAVE THREE, "PUZZLES LIKEYOU"]
ALEX MCGEE (02:41):
That was "Puzzles Like You" by the Mojave Three.
Our show today is calledimprove the situation,
introducing a new member of theGeorgia Tech Library faculty.
FRED RASCOE (02:50):
Jordan Moore is our new user experience librarian,
and she is here with us.
Jordan, welcome to the show.
JORDAN MOORE Thank youso much for having me
on the auspicious firstepisode of the year.
CHARLIE BENNETT: That's right, it is. (03:01):
undefined
You lucked out, didn't you?
MARLEE GIVENS (03:04):
I'm so pleased.
FRED RASCOE (03:05):
We were supposed to have an episode on January 3
and on January 10and circumstances--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Out of our control. (03:10):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (03:12):
Out of our control.
JORDAN MOORE (03:13):
I can only take responsibility
for one of those weeks.
I was on weather duty that day.
FRED RASCOE (03:17):
Yeah, as was the entire city of Atlanta, I think.
So welcome to the show, Jordan.
And so we want to askyou about your position
and what you do hereat Georgia Tech.
And to put thatinto context, let's
find out how you gotinto librarianship
in the first place.
JORDAN MOORE (03:33):
When I started in undergrad,
I was looking for astudent work position.
I called up thelibrary, which seems
baffling to me at the time.
If I got that call fromsomeone coming here and saying,
I need money, help,that would probably
be a really awkward call.
But they said,OK, here's how you
apply for a student position.
(03:54):
Got accepted.
Did student worker workfor the first two years.
And then, since librarianslike to make other librarians,
they tapped me for astudent manager role
because I saw that Iwas really into it.
So I got to learn more aboutthe functioning of the library.
Graduated at the heightof the recession in 2009.
(04:15):
So the responsible thing to dowas to go to library school.
Got an internshipwhile in library school
where I actuallylearned the job and have
been an academic librarianfor a decade and a half.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:29):
So when you call the library to give you
the job, you had todecide between, I'm sure,
some other stuff.
Were you kind of intolibraries at the time,
or was it some kind of reversealphabetical order or what?
JORDAN MOORE (04:40):
This sounds so cringe looking back,
but I think I said, thisis the only place where
I can spend eight hours a day.
Now, I know that that'sthe vocational awe talking.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:54):
Oh, nice.
Nicely done.
MARLEE GIVENS (04:56):
Yeah, but it also sets you up
for traditional user experience,which is being in the space,
so why not love thespace to begin with.
JORDAN MOORE (05:05):
And the space of the first library,
even though it was, likeI said, early 2000s,
it was right out of the 1970s.
All the furniture, thecolor scheme, everything.
It would be fun to takea trip to that library
now and see if they'veat least gotten to 1990.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:24):
And library school, was that a hard decision
or were you just raring to go?
JORDAN MOORE (05:29):
It was a pretty easy decision.
My dad, God bless, heeven heard in his sphere
there was talking aboutthe great retirement
wave of librarians that--
I don't know, has thathappened yet maybe?
But he said, oh yeah,library science.
You're going tohave all the jobs.
(05:49):
[LAUGHTER]
I mean I got--
to his point, I got a jobright out of library school.
I was of my kind of cohortof friends, the first one
to start doing what I gota degree in right away.
That wasn't thecase for everyone.
FRED RASCOE (06:08):
When I was in library school, 2002 to 2004,
I definitely heard that thegreat retirement wave that
was going to happen.
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:19):
We should give folks a little bit
of context about that.
If you're not inlibraries, you haven't
heard that agelibrarian would retire.
I think the waythat librarianship
had become a profession was suchthat there were these big chunks
of people at various ages.
I don't think it happened.
None of us have any evidencethat everybody retired.
MARLEE GIVENS (06:40):
But we did get that wonderful phrase,
the graying of the profession.
JORDAN MOORE (06:44):
Oh, right.
CHARLIE BENNETT: At least it wasn't (06:46):
undefined
the balding of the profession.
I would have feltpersonally attacked.
What was your first jobout of library school?
JORDAN MOORE (06:54):
I went into the institution
that I worked before thisas a reference librarian.
And came in, I believe, with,let's say, two subjects.
And by the end of the yearit was four to six subjects.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:12):
A tale as old as time.
JORDAN MOORE (07:14):
Yeah.
And then, after that becamethe instruction coordinator
because I foundthat was something
that I was pretty goodat and still enthusiastic
and energetic enoughthat I think it's kind
of like when they let the dog--
they're like, OK, puther in a classroom.
(07:37):
Let her get her sillies out.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Professional zoomies? (07:38):
undefined
Is that what?
JORDAN MOORE (07:40):
Yes, very much so before zooming
was somethingcompletely different.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:44):
So you weren't a user experience branch
librarian.
What drew you to that position?
JORDAN MOORE (07:51):
As an instruction coordinator,
I was tasked with several thingslooking at how people interacted
with services.
The first thingthat comes to mind
is when we changed catalogs.
We thought we knew howpeople would interact.
We definitely knew how we wouldlike people to interact with.
(08:15):
And I was tapped at findingout how people actually used it
and making recommendationsto not just the library,
but also, the vendorbecause there was still some
porousness to how it couldbe set up, some flexibility.
(08:35):
And I found that Ireally, really liked that.
So any time where I couldfuss and make things
go just a little bit better,a little bit smoother,
make life a little lessdifficult for everyone,
that was really satisfying.
CHARLIE BENNETT (08:52):
And that feels like the core of user experience
librarianship.
JORDAN MOORE (08:56):
Yeah.
CHARLIE BENNETT: What do you think (08:57):
undefined
of tech now that you're here?
JORDAN MOORE (09:00):
I'm having a great time.
I am trying to Pac-Man my waythrough all the different campus
dining options.
[LAUGHTER]
It's become what I referto as my dumb little treats
and how many dumb little treatsI can give myself in a week.
And yeah, I'm usually hittingat least one dumb little treat
(09:22):
a week.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:22):
You were the first person I've heard
who has gamified online--
on campus dining,so that's awesome.
FRED RASCOE (09:28):
Treats and zoomies, this
is like putting GeorgiaTech in a dog park.
JORDAN MOORE (09:34):
And you're going to be shocked
to hear that I'm a cat person.
Loves cats?
[LAUGHTER]
FRED RASCOE (09:42):
Next you'll tell me you
have a humanitiesundergraduate degree.
JORDAN MOORE (09:45):
Oh yeah, in two languages.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh, so much irony (09:48):
undefined
in this part of the segment.
So, food.
OK, what elseabout Georgia Tech?
[LAUGHTER]
I'm sorry, I don't wantto dismiss the food
part because that's awesome.
But yeah, so maybe the library,although I know there's
places to eat in there, too.
So maybe you can--
JORDAN MOORE (10:08):
Yeah, something that I quickly learned
and something that setstech apart, I think, is I
was told right away, oh,students are in the building.
That's not our big concern.
And for a lot of places,that's concern number one,
just getting people to rememberthat, hey, you have a library.
(10:29):
So that's reallybolstering to see whenever
I walk outside myoffice like, oh yeah,
people are definitely in here.
So that become-- thejob then becomes,
is that experiencein the building?
Great.
And how could weimprove that experience?
MARLEE GIVENS (10:53):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and we will be back withJordan Moore user experience
librarian after a music set.
File this set underZ674.75.W67S43.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:07):
So long.
[CHVRCHES, "GET OUT"]
AMY RAY (11:14):
You guys are great.
FRED RASCOE (11:17):
That was great.
Those guys were great.
That was "Put It Out For Good"by Amy Ray and, before that,
"Get Out" by Chvrches,although spelled Chvrches.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:29):
You got to say it with a little more gravitas.
Churches.
FRED RASCOE (11:32):
Churches.
I'm going to write him a letterand get him to pronounce the V.
Songs about finding the bestway to go about doing something.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:46):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And our show today is calledimprove the situation.
We're speaking with JordanMoore, the user experience
librarian at theGeorgia Tech Library.
So in the last segment,you mentioned your eye
for seeing howsomething works and then
finding a way tomake it better, which
I think is the core of userexperience as librarianship.
(12:07):
But what do youactually do all day?
JORDAN MOORE (12:10):
So far, because I'm still
in that introductory period,is ask a lot of questions.
I don't want to startfussing until I understand
the whys and the how.
So even if it meanssitting on my hands,
I'm not going to fusstill I understand.
And then, asking thequestions that just--
(12:33):
as someone who wasn'tthere when something
was formed, seeing why differentthings work the way they work.
And I found thata lot of reasons
some services, some policies,or the way that something looks,
people will say, oh, we starteddoing that a few years ago
(12:54):
either because this situationmade sense or we did it
and we always thought wewere going to come back to it
and see what wereally wanted to do.
There were some stopgaps, therewere some temporary things
that kind of got crystallized.
And so asking the questionslets us Marie Kondo it and say,
(13:16):
does this spark joy anymore?
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:19):
Do you have a systematic way
that you're kind ofdoing your questions
and reviewing the library,or is it what comes to you?
JORDAN MOORE (13:29):
I think just rule number one,
shut up and listen first.
That's what I holdon to the most
because I have afixer fusser tendency.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:45):
You used the word fuss a lot.
JORDAN MOORE (13:47):
Oh yeah.
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:47):
What does that mean to you
in a professional context?
JORDAN MOORE (13:51):
Fussing would be with a goal in mind
to make something better,just trying something.
Or even if you don't have a goalin mind, just think the what if.
In order to get intothat mind space,
you kind of have to have asense of ownership or power
(14:12):
and understandingabout something
that I don't want to rush into.
I think it's valuable to comein as someone who is learning
about a system first.
CHARLIE BENNETT (14:28):
So the job has within it the charge to go
and mess with things thataren't, quote unquote, "yours."
Is that right?
JORDAN MOORE (14:42):
Thankfully, people have come to me with things
that they know canbe improved and they
know can benefit fromsome time and attention.
So I'm not stalkingthe halls yet saying,
let's optimize this thing.
(15:02):
It is more, we know thatthis could work better.
Everyone is so, and I meanso, busy with everything
that they're doing and theconstant addressing needs--
immediate needs thatanother person whose job it
(15:24):
is to pay attention to littledetails, big and small,
is really, reallyvaluable, and that's
a really rewarding job for me.
CHARLIE BENNETT: You were talking-- (15:38):
undefined
when we were doing prepfor the show, which
was a little while ago, we weretalking about digital stuff
versus physical stuff.
Because there's maybe a spaceaudit going on in some way.
And I looked at your jobdescription on the website,
like what they charge you with,and it was digital objects.
(15:59):
And I was like, OK, so there'sa lot more to it than what's
on this quick description.
Are you primarily the virtuallibrary and digital stuff?
Or is it just kindof anything that--
I want to get someactual examples of things
that you will fusswith in the future.
JORDAN MOORE (16:15):
So far, and I think
this is the way that the jobdescription lines it out, it
has been digital.
It's digital learning objects.
So those are itemsthat are pretty
easy to find on the library'swebsite, the resource
guides, the tutorials, thingsthat aren't too many clicks
(16:40):
away, hopefully.
They might be able tohave fewer clicks in them.
CHARLIE BENNETT (16:44):
And there's the job right there.
JORDAN MOORE (16:45):
Yes.
And so seeing if we are reducingpeople's cognitive load when
they are interacting withsomething, even if it's
a matter of, are their eyeshaving to adjust from one page
(17:07):
to another?
Is there a way that can-- whenthey're reading something, is it
written in a way that makessense when writing for the web?
Chunking information.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:22):
Are we supposed to keep saying that,
or are we supposed to--
JORDAN MOORE (17:25):
Oh, it was a person
that we talked used thephrase microlearning.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:30):
That's right.
JORDAN MOORE (17:31):
So I don't know if, then, the person who does it
is microteaching someone.
Maybe we are microteachingor we are microhelping.
I may have found a newsubtitle for my job.
I am a microhelper.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:46):
And does that granularity--
is that pleasing to you?
Because when I think aboutit, I feel like, oh, I'm
clearly a bigger pictureperson because thinking
about the number of clicks makesme feel a little bit like, oh,
doesn't someone know moreabout this than I do?
JORDAN MOORE (18:05):
I find it really, really satisfying.
As much as I hatedeath of a salesman,
attention must be paid.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:12):
Oh, Wow.
JORDAN MOORE (18:13):
So maybe a better thing
is I was readingan article recently
about the value of maintenance.
That innovation and thenewest, shiniest thing
gets a lot of attention.
I don't think tech isimmune to that at all,
and libraries aren'timmune to that at all.
(18:33):
The maintenance workis incredibly valuable.
That is going to have longerimpact as far as patrons are
concerned becausethey may interact
with the newest, shiniestthing a time or two.
(18:53):
But hopefully, theyare using our services,
speaking with library staff,on a much more regular basis.
FRED RASCOE (19:04):
Well, you're listening to Lost in the Stacks,
and we'll hear more aboutimproving the situation
and maybe microlearning afew more things from Jordan
on the left side of the hour.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
IAN MACKAYE (19:25):
Hello, good people.
You are Lost in theStacks with Ian MacKaye
here on WREK in Atlanta.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT: Today we're talking (19:42):
undefined
with Jordan Moore, theuser experience librarian
at the Georgia Tech Library.
I'd like to take the mid-showbreak to dip into the library's
history with this position.
In September 2007,Brian Mathews became
the Georgia Tech Library'sfirst user experience librarian.
The day after, he publisheda blog post titled
(20:03):
Shifting My Focus, theUser Experience, which
read, in part, asof yesterday, I
have a new title, userexperience librarian.
This seems to be anatural evolution for me,
with an emphasis onassessment and communications
in the widest terms imaginable.
Essentially, my jobnow is to study users
(20:24):
and to make recommendations tolibrary admin and department
heads.
I'll also work with others todevelop targeted communication
strategies and do alittle brand work.
The biggest challenge willbe getting all departments
and units to trust me.
You say the word assessmentand people freak out.
While reading that, Ithought, times have changed.
(20:45):
You have to say audit nowto make people freak out.
File this set under BF698.A37.
[HAIM, "NOW I'M IN IT"] Lookingin the mirror again and again
Wishing the reflectionwould tell me
[PAUL SIMON, "ONCE UPON A TIMETHERE WAS AN OCEAN"] Nothing is
different, buteverything's changed
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:11):
That was "Once Upon a Time There Was an Ocean"
by Paul Simon and, beforethat, "Now I'm In It" by HAIM,
songs about assessing asituation and improving it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
This is Lost in the Stacks,on our show today is called
"Improve the Situation,"introducing the Georgia Tech
(21:32):
Library's user experiencelibrarian Jordan Moore.
And, Marlee, I'm goingto toss it to you.
MARLEE GIVENS (21:37):
All right, so before the music set,
Charlie read a quotethat was basically
an 18-year-old's definitionof user experience.
Is there something thatstood out to you, Jordan,
in that litany ofresponsibilities?
JORDAN MOORE (21:57):
I was thinking like, oh, if I had read that job
description, if what I appliedfor last year read like that,
what would be my reaction?
What do I think I couldbring to the table?
And man, it would have been--
I would be having differentconversations with myself.
(22:19):
What gets me excitedabout user experience
is the work that goesbefore someone's impression
of the library brand changes.
I think it changes not becauseof we tweaked this font
(22:41):
or we used thisdifferent color, it
changes because each timethey come to the library,
they have a good experienceand that reputation is formed.
So yeah, it would have been itwould have been a lot different.
FRED RASCOE (23:02):
It does seem like this job
description-- or thisquote, I should say,
this wasn't a job description.
It was a quote about the job.
It does focus a loton the branding,
and it doesn't mention a lot--
focus on the brandingof the library
and how the libraryfeels to the user.
And it doesn'tfocus a lot on maybe
(23:22):
how the user, which in ourcase is primarily students,
how successful thelibrary is in helping them
learn what they'resupposed to learn or gain
the knowledge thatthey're supposed to,
which seems like it's more ofwhat-- you're focusing more
on that as well asother things, but that's
part of what you're doing.
JORDAN MOORE (23:42):
Yeah, most of my conversations about UX
have been reallytied to instruction.
And that may be because,at previous institution,
I was instruction coordinatorand spent a lot of time
thinking about that and tryingto make that the venue where
I could improve people'sexperience and help out a little
(24:05):
and make life easier.
So I think I'm coming instarting from something where
I have a solidgrounding and going
to eventually widen thatscope as I learn more
about tech users.
And I think as the librarylearns more about me.
(24:28):
Right now, I'm coming in asa user experience librarian.
And hopefully soon,it will be, oh, we're
going to invite Jordanto this because we
know this is somethingthat she does well,
not just a user experiencelibrarian does well.
CHARLIE BENNETT (24:47):
What are some of those things that you
feel confident aboutthat you do well?
JORDAN MOORE (24:52):
I do instruction well.
That's where I become thehigh school theater kid
that I was in a previous life.
[LAUGHTER]
Like I said, I like payingattention to detail.
That doesn't get on my nerves.
(25:14):
I find that reallyrewarding even if it's
a matter of all the linkslook the same on this site,
or if you flip fromone page to the other,
again, there'sconsistency throughout.
So I know that I dothose things well.
And hopefully, I'm askinggood questions, too.
(25:37):
I'm happy anytime the responseto one of my questions is,
huh, I don't thinkI've thought of that
or we haven't thought ofthat in a couple years maybe.
So that that's rewarding.
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:51):
That's like a real subtle fussing.
[LAUGHTER]
To ask a question that youwant to direct attention.
[LAUGHS] It feels likethe description, the idea
that Brian Mathews hadcoming into user experience,
kind of comes from thatcrisis of confidence
that the library had post 2000.
(26:13):
Sort of well, what are we?
What do we do?
What's this internetthing going to do to us.
And your descriptionof the job really
sounds like, allright, we got it.
We're going to dothis a lot better.
We're on a good path.
Let's make it better, which is aweird position for me to be in.
Because I think the whole timeI've been at the Georgia Tech
(26:35):
Library someone's beensaying, what are we doing?
How are we going to do this?
This needs to be different.
MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah, what are we-- (26:39):
undefined
what's the new thing we're goingto do more than [? thing ?]
pretty well, let'smake it better.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:45):
Yeah.
FRED RASCOE (26:46):
Georgia Tech Library is not alone in that.
[LAUGHTER]
JORDAN MOORE (26:50):
No.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:51):
But I really appreciated you
bringing up maintenance,being a maintainer,
being someone who takessomething that exists and is
essential and supporting it,making it incrementally better
so that it can keep going asopposed to I say, I guess,
a more dramaticand crisis driven
(27:14):
change that sometimes happens.
JORDAN MOORE (27:17):
And I really appreciate the idea
that stance can come froma place of confidence.
That's really, really useful.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:26):
I'm so glad you said confidence because now I
can bring up something.
So what's this Ihear about Jeopardy!?
JORDAN MOORE (27:34):
Oh, my thrilling one episode run of Jeopardy!
in 2018.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:42):
Yeah, we've got a minute and a half.
Tell us everything.
FRED RASCOE (27:45):
Wow.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:46):
[LAUGHS]
FRED RASCOE (27:47):
I didn't know about this.
JORDAN MOORE (27:48):
A really fun thing is on camera,
all the contestantslook the same height.
That's because there areplatforms that they adjust
and have you step on and off.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:03):
A web of lies.
JORDAN MOORE (28:04):
I'm really appreciative, otherwise,
I would be just peekingover the podium.
And during commercial breaks,they remind you over and over,
remember, you're on a platform.
Yeah.
So that's very,very conscientious.
Also, they remind you, do anyof your calculations beforehand.
(28:30):
You will forget to do math whenthat little pen is in your hand
to write your final bet.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:35):
So was it nerve wracking at all?
The only thing I couldpossibly compare it to
would be like being on apanel where you don't really
know what peopleare going to ask,
but you kind ofthink you're trained.
What was that sensation like?
JORDAN MOORE (28:51):
I was really, really hoping
that there wouldn't beany geography questions.
That's what I prepped for.
I learned some capitals.
And one of the first categoriesthat popped up was podcasts.
[LAUGHTER]
And I was thrilled.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:08):
Fred, do you have a last thought before we--
FRED RASCOE (29:11):
So this was 2018.
So you got to meetTrebek, the OG.
JORDAN MOORE (29:15):
I did, and he sassed me to my face
and I was so happy.
FRED RASCOE (29:19):
He did.
Oh, did you fuss at him?
JORDAN MOORE (29:22):
No, no, I--
FRED RASCOE (29:24):
Can't fuss at Trebek.
JORDAN MOORE (29:24):
During my little story that I'm sure
everyone that had a DVR fastforwarded, I had my little thing
and he gave a littlecomeback and I just
felt like the luckiest person.
FRED RASCOE (29:37):
So you're about to do zoomies
all over again, right?
OK, this is Lost in theStacks, and our guest today
has been Jordan Moore, theuser experience librarian
here at the GeorgiaTech Library.
Jordan, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
JORDAN MOORE (29:50):
Thank all of you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:51):
File this set under GV14.
[MEN AT WORK, "CATCH A STAR"]
[THE MOUNTAIN GOATS, "COLOR INYOUR CHEEKS"]
ALEX MCGEE (30:19):
That was "Color in Your Cheeks"
by the Mountain Goats and,before that, "Catch a Star"
by Men At Work, songs aboutrealizing who you are,
where you are, andthat you do fit in.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:37):
Today's show was called "Improve
the Situation," and wespoke with the Georgia Tech
Library's user experiencelibrarian, Jordan Moore.
And one of thethings that you said
was about things youwant to fuss with
and fussing with stuff.
So I think thequestion we should
ask as we head intothe credits, what's
something out in the world?
No need to shame our library.
What's somethingout in the world
(30:58):
that you want to fuss with?
For me, it's every week I writea script for Lost in the Stacks,
and I to type the same thingsand then I have to do a playlist
and then I have to do athing and then this and that,
and I really needto figure out how
to make this an easier process.
I have no idea how to.
Fred.
FRED RASCOE (31:15):
I'm going to say--
well, I think anytimeI talk about fussing
or I want to fuss about, Ithink I sound really old.
Because the firstthing that came to mind
was the fact that I havekids ages 14, 17, and 20.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:30):
Oh my gosh.
FRED RASCOE (31:31):
And I don't understand most of the slang
that they use.
And they ridiculeme for it daily.
Like my son said--
I'm thinking aboutthis because this
happened at dinner last night.
My son said somethinglike, "that is based".
(31:53):
And I thought it wassomething like, if you say--
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:55):
I should point out,
Cody is laughingover here off mic.
FRED RASCOE (31:59):
And I thought it sounded like if you would say
like, oh, "I'm looking" andyou didn't finish the sentence.
And he said somethingI can't-- it's based.
And I said, based on what?
And the look thatI got killed me.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:14):
So you want to fuss with your children.
FRED RASCOE (32:16):
Yeah, I'm old.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:17):
You're middle age is glorious, Fred.
FRED RASCOE (32:20):
Anyway, enough about that.
Jordan, You have amuch better answer.
JORDAN MOORE (32:26):
Women's clothes sizes.
They mean nothing.
[LAUGHTER]
Words mean things.
Numbers should mean things.
Women's time is valuable andit needs to be addressed.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:44):
So this is our downside moment.
This has got to stop.
Oh.
MARLEE GIVENS (32:50):
PDFs.
So I was thinkingabout how when I
am reading ane-book on my device,
I can change the font so it'smore comfortable for me to read.
And I can't dothat with the PDF.
And I really wish--
yeah, you can only Zoom.
I can only Zoom in.
Yeah.
(33:10):
Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (33:11):
So I had two, and I really struggled to pick one.
I think I'm going to gowith passport renewals.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:18):
Oh my gosh.
ALEX MCGEE (33:19):
I don't know.
It sucks.
Make it better.
Why is it a form that I haveto print out and mail in?
And why is it nowyou can do it online,
but you can only doit online if you're
within a certainwindow of renewal,
and they sometimesjust take it offline.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:34):
This is the saddest I've ever seen you.
ALEX MCGEE (33:36):
I like to travel.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:39):
Cody.
CODY (33:40):
For me, I think it's splitting checks
at a restaurant.
Like, just let us do it.
I hate this.
They bring you the receiptsand then they take the cards.
I went to a dinner onWednesday, and they're like,
here, just scan thisQR code and you guys
can split it however you want.
And I was like, thank you.
Thank you so much.
MARLEE GIVENS (33:57):
Oh my gosh.
My shoulders just relaxed.
[LAUGHTER]
CODY (34:01):
And let me do it instead of the server.
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:03):
I got to tell you all,
I had no idea how thispart was going to go
and I am very satisfied.
Fred, roll the credits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MARLEE GIVENS: Lost In the Stacks (34:18):
undefined
is a collaboration between WREKAtlanta and the Georgia Tech
Library, written and producedby Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
Legal counsel and asmidge of microlearning
were provided by the BurrusIntellectual Property Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:34):
Special thanks to Jordan for being on the show,
to her predecessors,Ameet and Brian.
To anyone who's asked, howcan we make this better.
And Thanks, as always, toeach and every one of you
for listening.
ALEX MCGEE (34:47):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
MARLEE GIVENS: Next week, we will (34:56):
undefined
learn more about the library'srole in educational technology
at Georgia Tech and vice versa.
FRED RASCOE (35:03):
It's time for our last song today.
The user experiencelibrarian tries
to make the patron have abetter experience every time
they use the libraryresources or interact
with anything thelibrary has to offer.
And so, to close, a song aboutalways striving to improve.
And the song isfrom musical theater
(35:23):
because Jordan is a fan, aformer musical theater kid.
This is "Maybe This Time" byLiza Minnelli from Cabaret.
Have a great weekend, everybody.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LIZA MINNELLI, "MAYBE THISTIME"]
(35:55):
(SINGING) Maybethis time I'll be
AARON SCHMIDT [clip] (00:02):
So again, thanks for being here
and let's get started.
So I have titled thispresentation Useful, Usable,
and Desirable.
This is a bit of a Holy Trinitywith user experience design.
And I think it's anunparalleled framework
for thinking about our librariesand assessing them and improving
them.
We have a lot of thingsgoing on in our buildings,
(00:23):
whether it's a public libraryor academic library or school
library.
Libraries arecomplicated things.
Even simple tasks havea lot of moving parts.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:56):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in theStacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett inthe studio with-- well,
it's everybody.
We've been gone so long.
I'm so glad to see you all.
Alex, Marlee, Fred, Cody,a guest to be named later.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
(01:19):
Whichever you're herefor, we hope you dig it.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:21):
Our show today is called "Improve the Situation,"
which sounds likea pretty good plan.
It is an introduceyourself show,
in which we give ourlisteners a chance
to meet someone who has recentlybecome part of the Georgia Tech
Library faculty.
ALEX MCGEE (01:35):
Today we're talking with our new user experience
librarian.
That's a positionthat's only been
held by two other librariansat Georgia Tech library,
one of whom used tobe part of the show.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:45):
Hey, Ameet.
ALEX MCGEE (01:46):
There are many ways to define user experience,
and I'm not going to slow downthe show with any dictionary
definitions orWikipedia summaries.
I'll just say that whenyou use the library,
you have to interactwith something,
an object, an interface,a person, a web page,
and who knows what else.
And that experienceis pretty important,
part of how the library works.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:04):
And the user experience librarian
is very interested in howthat interaction goes for you.
FRED RASCOE (02:09):
And our songs today are
about finding the bestway to do something,
improving a situation, andlearning things in a new place.
Figuring out a new workenvironment is tricky.
And when you're alsotrying to figure out
the needs of a usercommunity at the same time,
that's just a puzzle.
So let's start with"Puzzles Like You"
by the Mojave Three righthere on Lost in the Stacks.
(02:32):
[MOJAVE THREE, "PUZZLES LIKEYOU"]
ALEX MCGEE (02:41):
That was "Puzzles Like You" by the Mojave Three.
Our show today is calledimprove the situation,
introducing a new member of theGeorgia Tech Library faculty.
FRED RASCOE (02:50):
Jordan Moore is our new user experience librarian,
and she is here with us.
Jordan, welcome to the show.
JORDAN MOORE Thank youso much for having me
on the auspicious firstepisode of the year.
CHARLIE BENNETT: That's right, it is. (03:01):
undefined
You lucked out, didn't you?
MARLEE GIVENS (03:04):
I'm so pleased.
FRED RASCOE (03:05):
We were supposed to have an episode on January 3
and on January 10and circumstances--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Out of our control. (03:10):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (03:12):
Out of our control.
JORDAN MOORE (03:13):
I can only take responsibility
for one of those weeks.
I was on weather duty that day.
FRED RASCOE (03:17):
Yeah, as was the entire city of Atlanta, I think.
So welcome to the show, Jordan.
And so we want to askyou about your position
and what you do hereat Georgia Tech.
And to put thatinto context, let's
find out how you gotinto librarianship
in the first place.
JORDAN MOORE (03:33):
When I started in undergrad,
I was looking for astudent work position.
I called up thelibrary, which seems
baffling to me at the time.
If I got that call fromsomeone coming here and saying,
I need money, help,that would probably
be a really awkward call.
But they said,OK, here's how you
apply for a student position.
(03:54):
Got accepted.
Did student worker workfor the first two years.
And then, since librarianslike to make other librarians,
they tapped me for astudent manager role
because I saw that Iwas really into it.
So I got to learn more aboutthe functioning of the library.
Graduated at the heightof the recession in 2009.
(04:15):
So the responsible thing to dowas to go to library school.
Got an internshipwhile in library school
where I actuallylearned the job and have
been an academic librarianfor a decade and a half.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:29):
So when you call the library to give you
the job, you had todecide between, I'm sure,
some other stuff.
Were you kind of intolibraries at the time,
or was it some kind of reversealphabetical order or what?
JORDAN MOORE (04:40):
This sounds so cringe looking back,
but I think I said, thisis the only place where
I can spend eight hours a day.
Now, I know that that'sthe vocational awe talking.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:54):
Oh, nice.
Nicely done.
MARLEE GIVENS (04:56):
Yeah, but it also sets you up
for traditional user experience,which is being in the space,
so why not love thespace to begin with.
JORDAN MOORE (05:05):
And the space of the first library,
even though it was, likeI said, early 2000s,
it was right out of the 1970s.
All the furniture, thecolor scheme, everything.
It would be fun to takea trip to that library
now and see if they'veat least gotten to 1990.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:24):
And library school, was that a hard decision
or were you just raring to go?
JORDAN MOORE (05:29):
It was a pretty easy decision.
My dad, God bless, heeven heard in his sphere
there was talking aboutthe great retirement
wave of librarians that--
I don't know, has thathappened yet maybe?
But he said, oh yeah,library science.
You're going tohave all the jobs.
(05:49):
[LAUGHTER]
I mean I got--
to his point, I got a jobright out of library school.
I was of my kind of cohortof friends, the first one
to start doing what I gota degree in right away.
That wasn't thecase for everyone.
FRED RASCOE (06:08):
When I was in library school, 2002 to 2004,
I definitely heard that thegreat retirement wave that
was going to happen.
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:19):
We should give folks a little bit
of context about that.
If you're not inlibraries, you haven't
heard that agelibrarian would retire.
I think the waythat librarianship
had become a profession was suchthat there were these big chunks
of people at various ages.
I don't think it happened.
None of us have any evidencethat everybody retired.
MARLEE GIVENS (06:40):
But we did get that wonderful phrase,
the graying of the profession.
JORDAN MOORE (06:44):
Oh, right.
CHARLIE BENNETT: At least it wasn't (06:46):
undefined
the balding of the profession.
I would have feltpersonally attacked.
What was your first jobout of library school?
JORDAN MOORE (06:54):
I went into the institution
that I worked before thisas a reference librarian.
And came in, I believe, with,let's say, two subjects.
And by the end of the yearit was four to six subjects.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:12):
A tale as old as time.
JORDAN MOORE (07:14):
Yeah.
And then, after that becamethe instruction coordinator
because I foundthat was something
that I was pretty goodat and still enthusiastic
and energetic enoughthat I think it's kind
of like when they let the dog--
they're like, OK, puther in a classroom.
(07:37):
Let her get her sillies out.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Professional zoomies? (07:38):
undefined
Is that what?
JORDAN MOORE (07:40):
Yes, very much so before zooming
was somethingcompletely different.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:44):
So you weren't a user experience branch
librarian.
What drew you to that position?
JORDAN MOORE (07:51):
As an instruction coordinator,
I was tasked with several thingslooking at how people interacted
with services.
The first thingthat comes to mind
is when we changed catalogs.
We thought we knew howpeople would interact.
We definitely knew how we wouldlike people to interact with.
(08:15):
And I was tapped at findingout how people actually used it
and making recommendationsto not just the library,
but also, the vendorbecause there was still some
porousness to how it couldbe set up, some flexibility.
(08:35):
And I found that Ireally, really liked that.
So any time where I couldfuss and make things
go just a little bit better,a little bit smoother,
make life a little lessdifficult for everyone,
that was really satisfying.
CHARLIE BENNETT (08:52):
And that feels like the core of user experience
librarianship.
JORDAN MOORE (08:56):
Yeah.
CHARLIE BENNETT: What do you think (08:57):
undefined
of tech now that you're here?
JORDAN MOORE (09:00):
I'm having a great time.
I am trying to Pac-Man my waythrough all the different campus
dining options.
[LAUGHTER]
It's become what I referto as my dumb little treats
and how many dumb little treatsI can give myself in a week.
And yeah, I'm usually hittingat least one dumb little treat
(09:22):
a week.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:22):
You were the first person I've heard
who has gamified online--
on campus dining,so that's awesome.
FRED RASCOE (09:28):
Treats and zoomies, this
is like putting GeorgiaTech in a dog park.
JORDAN MOORE (09:34):
And you're going to be shocked
to hear that I'm a cat person.
Loves cats?
[LAUGHTER]
FRED RASCOE (09:42):
Next you'll tell me you
have a humanitiesundergraduate degree.
JORDAN MOORE (09:45):
Oh yeah, in two languages.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh, so much irony (09:48):
undefined
in this part of the segment.
So, food.
OK, what elseabout Georgia Tech?
[LAUGHTER]
I'm sorry, I don't wantto dismiss the food
part because that's awesome.
But yeah, so maybe the library,although I know there's
places to eat in there, too.
So maybe you can--
JORDAN MOORE (10:08):
Yeah, something that I quickly learned
and something that setstech apart, I think, is I
was told right away, oh,students are in the building.
That's not our big concern.
And for a lot of places,that's concern number one,
just getting people to rememberthat, hey, you have a library.
(10:29):
So that's reallybolstering to see whenever
I walk outside myoffice like, oh yeah,
people are definitely in here.
So that become-- thejob then becomes,
is that experiencein the building?
Great.
And how could weimprove that experience?
MARLEE GIVENS (10:53):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and we will be back withJordan Moore user experience
librarian after a music set.
File this set underZ674.75.W67S43.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:07):
So long.
[CHVRCHES, "GET OUT"]
AMY RAY (11:14):
You guys are great.
FRED RASCOE (11:17):
That was great.
Those guys were great.
That was "Put It Out For Good"by Amy Ray and, before that,
"Get Out" by Chvrches,although spelled Chvrches.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:29):
You got to say it with a little more gravitas.
Churches.
FRED RASCOE (11:32):
Churches.
I'm going to write him a letterand get him to pronounce the V.
Songs about finding the bestway to go about doing something.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:46):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And our show today is calledimprove the situation.
We're speaking with JordanMoore, the user experience
librarian at theGeorgia Tech Library.
So in the last segment,you mentioned your eye
for seeing howsomething works and then
finding a way tomake it better, which
I think is the core of userexperience as librarianship.
(12:07):
But what do youactually do all day?
JORDAN MOORE (12:10):
So far, because I'm still
in that introductory period,is ask a lot of questions.
I don't want to startfussing until I understand
the whys and the how.
So even if it meanssitting on my hands,
I'm not going to fusstill I understand.
And then, asking thequestions that just--
(12:33):
as someone who wasn'tthere when something
was formed, seeing why differentthings work the way they work.
And I found thata lot of reasons
some services, some policies,or the way that something looks,
people will say, oh, we starteddoing that a few years ago
(12:54):
either because this situationmade sense or we did it
and we always thought wewere going to come back to it
and see what wereally wanted to do.
There were some stopgaps, therewere some temporary things
that kind of got crystallized.
And so asking the questionslets us Marie Kondo it and say,
(13:16):
does this spark joy anymore?
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:19):
Do you have a systematic way
that you're kind ofdoing your questions
and reviewing the library,or is it what comes to you?
JORDAN MOORE (13:29):
I think just rule number one,
shut up and listen first.
That's what I holdon to the most
because I have afixer fusser tendency.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:45):
You used the word fuss a lot.
JORDAN MOORE (13:47):
Oh yeah.
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:47):
What does that mean to you
in a professional context?
JORDAN MOORE (13:51):
Fussing would be with a goal in mind
to make something better,just trying something.
Or even if you don't have a goalin mind, just think the what if.
In order to get intothat mind space,
you kind of have to have asense of ownership or power
(14:12):
and understandingabout something
that I don't want to rush into.
I think it's valuable to comein as someone who is learning
about a system first.
CHARLIE BENNETT (14:28):
So the job has within it the charge to go
and mess with things thataren't, quote unquote, "yours."
Is that right?
JORDAN MOORE (14:42):
Thankfully, people have come to me with things
that they know canbe improved and they
know can benefit fromsome time and attention.
So I'm not stalkingthe halls yet saying,
let's optimize this thing.
(15:02):
It is more, we know thatthis could work better.
Everyone is so, and I meanso, busy with everything
that they're doing and theconstant addressing needs--
immediate needs thatanother person whose job it
(15:24):
is to pay attention to littledetails, big and small,
is really, reallyvaluable, and that's
a really rewarding job for me.
CHARLIE BENNETT: You were talking-- (15:38):
undefined
when we were doing prepfor the show, which
was a little while ago, we weretalking about digital stuff
versus physical stuff.
Because there's maybe a spaceaudit going on in some way.
And I looked at your jobdescription on the website,
like what they charge you with,and it was digital objects.
(15:59):
And I was like, OK, so there'sa lot more to it than what's
on this quick description.
Are you primarily the virtuallibrary and digital stuff?
Or is it just kindof anything that--
I want to get someactual examples of things
that you will fusswith in the future.
JORDAN MOORE (16:15):
So far, and I think
this is the way that the jobdescription lines it out, it
has been digital.
It's digital learning objects.
So those are itemsthat are pretty
easy to find on the library'swebsite, the resource
guides, the tutorials, thingsthat aren't too many clicks
(16:40):
away, hopefully.
They might be able tohave fewer clicks in them.
CHARLIE BENNETT (16:44):
And there's the job right there.
JORDAN MOORE (16:45):
Yes.
And so seeing if we are reducingpeople's cognitive load when
they are interacting withsomething, even if it's
a matter of, are their eyeshaving to adjust from one page
(17:07):
to another?
Is there a way that can-- whenthey're reading something, is it
written in a way that makessense when writing for the web?
Chunking information.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:22):
Are we supposed to keep saying that,
or are we supposed to--
JORDAN MOORE (17:25):
Oh, it was a person
that we talked used thephrase microlearning.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:30):
That's right.
JORDAN MOORE (17:31):
So I don't know if, then, the person who does it
is microteaching someone.
Maybe we are microteachingor we are microhelping.
I may have found a newsubtitle for my job.
I am a microhelper.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:46):
And does that granularity--
is that pleasing to you?
Because when I think aboutit, I feel like, oh, I'm
clearly a bigger pictureperson because thinking
about the number of clicks makesme feel a little bit like, oh,
doesn't someone know moreabout this than I do?
JORDAN MOORE (18:05):
I find it really, really satisfying.
As much as I hatedeath of a salesman,
attention must be paid.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:12):
Oh, Wow.
JORDAN MOORE (18:13):
So maybe a better thing
is I was readingan article recently
about the value of maintenance.
That innovation and thenewest, shiniest thing
gets a lot of attention.
I don't think tech isimmune to that at all,
and libraries aren'timmune to that at all.
(18:33):
The maintenance workis incredibly valuable.
That is going to have longerimpact as far as patrons are
concerned becausethey may interact
with the newest, shiniestthing a time or two.
(18:53):
But hopefully, theyare using our services,
speaking with library staff,on a much more regular basis.
FRED RASCOE (19:04):
Well, you're listening to Lost in the Stacks,
and we'll hear more aboutimproving the situation
and maybe microlearning afew more things from Jordan
on the left side of the hour.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
IAN MACKAYE (19:25):
Hello, good people.
You are Lost in theStacks with Ian MacKaye
here on WREK in Atlanta.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT: Today we're talking (19:42):
undefined
with Jordan Moore, theuser experience librarian
at the Georgia Tech Library.
I'd like to take the mid-showbreak to dip into the library's
history with this position.
In September 2007,Brian Mathews became
the Georgia Tech Library'sfirst user experience librarian.
The day after, he publisheda blog post titled
(20:03):
Shifting My Focus, theUser Experience, which
read, in part, asof yesterday, I
have a new title, userexperience librarian.
This seems to be anatural evolution for me,
with an emphasis onassessment and communications
in the widest terms imaginable.
Essentially, my jobnow is to study users
(20:24):
and to make recommendations tolibrary admin and department
heads.
I'll also work with others todevelop targeted communication
strategies and do alittle brand work.
The biggest challenge willbe getting all departments
and units to trust me.
You say the word assessmentand people freak out.
While reading that, Ithought, times have changed.
(20:45):
You have to say audit nowto make people freak out.
File this set under BF698.A37.
[HAIM, "NOW I'M IN IT"] Lookingin the mirror again and again
Wishing the reflectionwould tell me
[PAUL SIMON, "ONCE UPON A TIMETHERE WAS AN OCEAN"] Nothing is
different, buteverything's changed
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:11):
That was "Once Upon a Time There Was an Ocean"
by Paul Simon and, beforethat, "Now I'm In It" by HAIM,
songs about assessing asituation and improving it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
This is Lost in the Stacks,on our show today is called
"Improve the Situation,"introducing the Georgia Tech
(21:32):
Library's user experiencelibrarian Jordan Moore.
And, Marlee, I'm goingto toss it to you.
MARLEE GIVENS (21:37):
All right, so before the music set,
Charlie read a quotethat was basically
an 18-year-old's definitionof user experience.
Is there something thatstood out to you, Jordan,
in that litany ofresponsibilities?
JORDAN MOORE (21:57):
I was thinking like, oh, if I had read that job
description, if what I appliedfor last year read like that,
what would be my reaction?
What do I think I couldbring to the table?
And man, it would have been--
I would be having differentconversations with myself.
(22:19):
What gets me excitedabout user experience
is the work that goesbefore someone's impression
of the library brand changes.
I think it changes not becauseof we tweaked this font
(22:41):
or we used thisdifferent color, it
changes because each timethey come to the library,
they have a good experienceand that reputation is formed.
So yeah, it would have been itwould have been a lot different.
FRED RASCOE (23:02):
It does seem like this job
description-- or thisquote, I should say,
this wasn't a job description.
It was a quote about the job.
It does focus a loton the branding,
and it doesn't mention a lot--
focus on the brandingof the library
and how the libraryfeels to the user.
And it doesn'tfocus a lot on maybe
(23:22):
how the user, which in ourcase is primarily students,
how successful thelibrary is in helping them
learn what they'resupposed to learn or gain
the knowledge thatthey're supposed to,
which seems like it's more ofwhat-- you're focusing more
on that as well asother things, but that's
part of what you're doing.
JORDAN MOORE (23:42):
Yeah, most of my conversations about UX
have been reallytied to instruction.
And that may be because,at previous institution,
I was instruction coordinatorand spent a lot of time
thinking about that and tryingto make that the venue where
I could improve people'sexperience and help out a little
(24:05):
and make life easier.
So I think I'm coming instarting from something where
I have a solidgrounding and going
to eventually widen thatscope as I learn more
about tech users.
And I think as the librarylearns more about me.
(24:28):
Right now, I'm coming in asa user experience librarian.
And hopefully soon,it will be, oh, we're
going to invite Jordanto this because we
know this is somethingthat she does well,
not just a user experiencelibrarian does well.
CHARLIE BENNETT (24:47):
What are some of those things that you
feel confident aboutthat you do well?
JORDAN MOORE (24:52):
I do instruction well.
That's where I become thehigh school theater kid
that I was in a previous life.
[LAUGHTER]
Like I said, I like payingattention to detail.
That doesn't get on my nerves.
(25:14):
I find that reallyrewarding even if it's
a matter of all the linkslook the same on this site,
or if you flip fromone page to the other,
again, there'sconsistency throughout.
So I know that I dothose things well.
And hopefully, I'm askinggood questions, too.
(25:37):
I'm happy anytime the responseto one of my questions is,
huh, I don't thinkI've thought of that
or we haven't thought ofthat in a couple years maybe.
So that that's rewarding.
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:51):
That's like a real subtle fussing.
[LAUGHTER]
To ask a question that youwant to direct attention.
[LAUGHS] It feels likethe description, the idea
that Brian Mathews hadcoming into user experience,
kind of comes from thatcrisis of confidence
that the library had post 2000.
(26:13):
Sort of well, what are we?
What do we do?
What's this internetthing going to do to us.
And your descriptionof the job really
sounds like, allright, we got it.
We're going to dothis a lot better.
We're on a good path.
Let's make it better, which is aweird position for me to be in.
Because I think the whole timeI've been at the Georgia Tech
(26:35):
Library someone's beensaying, what are we doing?
How are we going to do this?
This needs to be different.
MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah, what are we-- (26:39):
undefined
what's the new thing we're goingto do more than [? thing ?]
pretty well, let'smake it better.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:45):
Yeah.
FRED RASCOE (26:46):
Georgia Tech Library is not alone in that.
[LAUGHTER]
JORDAN MOORE (26:50):
No.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:51):
But I really appreciated you
bringing up maintenance,being a maintainer,
being someone who takessomething that exists and is
essential and supporting it,making it incrementally better
so that it can keep going asopposed to I say, I guess,
a more dramaticand crisis driven
(27:14):
change that sometimes happens.
JORDAN MOORE (27:17):
And I really appreciate the idea
that stance can come froma place of confidence.
That's really, really useful.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:26):
I'm so glad you said confidence because now I
can bring up something.
So what's this Ihear about Jeopardy!?
JORDAN MOORE (27:34):
Oh, my thrilling one episode run of Jeopardy!
in 2018.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:42):
Yeah, we've got a minute and a half.
Tell us everything.
FRED RASCOE (27:45):
Wow.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:46):
[LAUGHS]
FRED RASCOE (27:47):
I didn't know about this.
JORDAN MOORE (27:48):
A really fun thing is on camera,
all the contestantslook the same height.
That's because there areplatforms that they adjust
and have you step on and off.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:03):
A web of lies.
JORDAN MOORE (28:04):
I'm really appreciative, otherwise,
I would be just peekingover the podium.
And during commercial breaks,they remind you over and over,
remember, you're on a platform.
Yeah.
So that's very,very conscientious.
Also, they remind you, do anyof your calculations beforehand.
(28:30):
You will forget to do math whenthat little pen is in your hand
to write your final bet.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:35):
So was it nerve wracking at all?
The only thing I couldpossibly compare it to
would be like being on apanel where you don't really
know what peopleare going to ask,
but you kind ofthink you're trained.
What was that sensation like?
JORDAN MOORE (28:51):
I was really, really hoping
that there wouldn't beany geography questions.
That's what I prepped for.
I learned some capitals.
And one of the first categoriesthat popped up was podcasts.
[LAUGHTER]
And I was thrilled.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:08):
Fred, do you have a last thought before we--
FRED RASCOE (29:11):
So this was 2018.
So you got to meetTrebek, the OG.
JORDAN MOORE (29:15):
I did, and he sassed me to my face
and I was so happy.
FRED RASCOE (29:19):
He did.
Oh, did you fuss at him?
JORDAN MOORE (29:22):
No, no, I--
FRED RASCOE (29:24):
Can't fuss at Trebek.
JORDAN MOORE (29:24):
During my little story that I'm sure
everyone that had a DVR fastforwarded, I had my little thing
and he gave a littlecomeback and I just
felt like the luckiest person.
FRED RASCOE (29:37):
So you're about to do zoomies
all over again, right?
OK, this is Lost in theStacks, and our guest today
has been Jordan Moore, theuser experience librarian
here at the GeorgiaTech Library.
Jordan, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
JORDAN MOORE (29:50):
Thank all of you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:51):
File this set under GV14.
[MEN AT WORK, "CATCH A STAR"]
[THE MOUNTAIN GOATS, "COLOR INYOUR CHEEKS"]
ALEX MCGEE (30:19):
That was "Color in Your Cheeks"
by the Mountain Goats and,before that, "Catch a Star"
by Men At Work, songs aboutrealizing who you are,
where you are, andthat you do fit in.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:37):
Today's show was called "Improve
the Situation," and wespoke with the Georgia Tech
Library's user experiencelibrarian, Jordan Moore.
And one of thethings that you said
was about things youwant to fuss with
and fussing with stuff.
So I think thequestion we should
ask as we head intothe credits, what's
something out in the world?
No need to shame our library.
What's somethingout in the world
(30:58):
that you want to fuss with?
For me, it's every week I writea script for Lost in the Stacks,
and I to type the same thingsand then I have to do a playlist
and then I have to do athing and then this and that,
and I really needto figure out how
to make this an easier process.
I have no idea how to.
Fred.
FRED RASCOE (31:15):
I'm going to say--
well, I think anytimeI talk about fussing
or I want to fuss about, Ithink I sound really old.
Because the firstthing that came to mind
was the fact that I havekids ages 14, 17, and 20.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:30):
Oh my gosh.
FRED RASCOE (31:31):
And I don't understand most of the slang
that they use.
And they ridiculeme for it daily.
Like my son said--
I'm thinking aboutthis because this
happened at dinner last night.
My son said somethinglike, "that is based".
(31:53):
And I thought it wassomething like, if you say--
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:55):
I should point out,
Cody is laughingover here off mic.
FRED RASCOE (31:59):
And I thought it sounded like if you would say
like, oh, "I'm looking" andyou didn't finish the sentence.
And he said somethingI can't-- it's based.
And I said, based on what?
And the look thatI got killed me.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:14):
So you want to fuss with your children.
FRED RASCOE (32:16):
Yeah, I'm old.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:17):
You're middle age is glorious, Fred.
FRED RASCOE (32:20):
Anyway, enough about that.
Jordan, You have amuch better answer.
JORDAN MOORE (32:26):
Women's clothes sizes.
They mean nothing.
[LAUGHTER]
Words mean things.
Numbers should mean things.
Women's time is valuable andit needs to be addressed.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:44):
So this is our downside moment.
This has got to stop.
Oh.
MARLEE GIVENS (32:50):
PDFs.
So I was thinkingabout how when I
am reading ane-book on my device,
I can change the font so it'smore comfortable for me to read.
And I can't dothat with the PDF.
And I really wish--
yeah, you can only Zoom.
I can only Zoom in.
Yeah.
(33:10):
Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (33:11):
So I had two, and I really struggled to pick one.
I think I'm going to gowith passport renewals.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:18):
Oh my gosh.
ALEX MCGEE (33:19):
I don't know.
It sucks.
Make it better.
Why is it a form that I haveto print out and mail in?
And why is it nowyou can do it online,
but you can only doit online if you're
within a certainwindow of renewal,
and they sometimesjust take it offline.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:34):
This is the saddest I've ever seen you.
ALEX MCGEE (33:36):
I like to travel.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:39):
Cody.
CODY (33:40):
For me, I think it's splitting checks
at a restaurant.
Like, just let us do it.
I hate this.
They bring you the receiptsand then they take the cards.
I went to a dinner onWednesday, and they're like,
here, just scan thisQR code and you guys
can split it however you want.
And I was like, thank you.
Thank you so much.
MARLEE GIVENS (33:57):
Oh my gosh.
My shoulders just relaxed.
[LAUGHTER]
CODY (34:01):
And let me do it instead of the server.
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:03):
I got to tell you all,
I had no idea how thispart was going to go
and I am very satisfied.
Fred, roll the credits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MARLEE GIVENS: Lost In the Stacks (34:18):
undefined
is a collaboration between WREKAtlanta and the Georgia Tech
Library, written and producedby Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
Legal counsel and asmidge of microlearning
were provided by the BurrusIntellectual Property Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:34):
Special thanks to Jordan for being on the show,
to her predecessors,Ameet and Brian.
To anyone who's asked, howcan we make this better.
And Thanks, as always, toeach and every one of you
for listening.
ALEX MCGEE (34:47):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
MARLEE GIVENS: Next week, we will (34:56):
undefined
learn more about the library'srole in educational technology
at Georgia Tech and vice versa.
FRED RASCOE (35:03):
It's time for our last song today.
The user experiencelibrarian tries
to make the patron have abetter experience every time
they use the libraryresources or interact
with anything thelibrary has to offer.
And so, to close, a song aboutalways striving to improve.
And the song isfrom musical theater
(35:23):
because Jordan is a fan, aformer musical theater kid.
This is "Maybe This Time" byLiza Minnelli from Cabaret.
Have a great weekend, everybody.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LIZA MINNELLI, "MAYBE THISTIME"]
(35:55):
(SINGING) Maybethis time I'll be
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