January 24, 2025 • 60 mins
Guest: Warren Goetzel, Director of Academic Technology and Engagement for Georgia Tech’s Office of Information Technology & Director of External and Faculty Engagement with the Center for 21st Century Universities.
First broadcast January 24 2025. Transcript at: https://hdl.handle.net/1853/77037
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"I have to admit I found myself more overwhelmed than curious."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
JOHN MULANEY (00:00):
People especially don't want to do their jobs.
(00:02):
I've found thatout recently, too.
I have a friend named Megan.
She's an elementaryschool teacher.
And I was out withher one night and she
was drinking like a monster.
[LAUGHTER]
And I said to her, don't youhave to do a shift at school
tomorrow?
And she went, ah, I'lljust show a video.
And I was like, that'swhy teachers show videos?
She said this.
She goes, yeah, Idon't want to work.
(00:23):
And I was like, you know, thekids don't want to work either.
And she was like, good.
[LAUGHTER]
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:51):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in theStacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett,in the studio
with Marlee Givensand Fred Rascoe,
and a guest to be named later.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
Whichever you're herefor, we hope you dig it.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:12):
Our show today is called "Steering the Edtech
Ship."
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:16):
OK, Marlee, normally I
would have no time for thenautical or pirate puns
that are about to comefrom a title like that.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:24):
Yarr.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:24):
But my son is super into pirates right now,
so I'm a full sail on this one.
FRED RASCOE (01:30):
Yarr.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:31):
There you go.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:31):
OK, well, before we let the sailing metaphor go
too far, I shouldexplain that we're
talking about an actualsteering committee.
I just added the ship for fun.
FRED RASCOE (01:40):
Yarr.
MARLEE GIVENS: [LAUGHS] Well, OK. (01:41):
undefined
Our Lost in the Stacks crewwill be all hands on deck,
as we learn the ropes ofeducational technology
and its relation to libraries.
By and large, we're not just twoships that pass in the night.
So let's get underway.
FRED RASCOE (01:57):
Yarr.
Damn the torpedoes,full steam ahead.
CHARLIE BENNETT: OK, Marlee, first (02:00):
undefined
rate usage of by andlarge as a nautical term,
but let's keep an evenkeel from now on, OK?
FRED RASCOE (02:07):
Oh, are you not a fan of the puns?
CHARLIE BENNETT: Don't pun me, Fred. (02:10):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (02:12):
Schooner or later, you'll come around.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:15):
I'm going to-- after--
just you wait.
FRED RASCOE (02:18):
[LAUGHS] [STAMMERS] Our songs today are all going
to be pulled from a list ofartists that our guest saw live
in concert in thelast 12 months,
so that's a pretty cool thing.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:29):
I love a theme, man.
MARLEE GIVENS (02:30):
Mhm.
FRED RASCOE (02:30):
So we'll have songs about teaching,
working together, andtransitions, all from that list.
And since we've got anautical theme going so far,
it sounds like, my firstthought was to start off
with a yacht rock song.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:42):
Maybe no?
FRED RASCOE (02:44):
Well, there's not a lot of yacht rockers
on this list that are--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:50):
I wouldn't think so.
FRED RASCOE (02:51):
But Neil Young is on the list.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:53):
Hey.
FRED RASCOE (02:54):
He has some yacht-rock-adjacent tracks,
maybe--
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:56):
How dare you?
FRED RASCOE (02:57):
--fair to say?
Yeah, I mean, we'll fudgethe definition a little bit.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:00):
OK.
FRED RASCOE (03:01):
So let's sail on to our music, with "Sail Away"--
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:04):
Fred.
FRED RASCOE (03:05):
--by Neil Young and Crazy Horse,
right here on Lostin the Stacks.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:09):
Well, it's Neil, so I'll allow it.
MARLEE GIVENS (03:11):
Yarr.
[NEIL YOUNG AND CRAZY HORSE,"SAIL AWAY"]
(SINGING) As longas we can sail away
CHARLIE BENNETT: That was "Sail Away" (03:31):
undefined
by Neil Young and CrazyHorse, right here on Lost
in the Stacks.
Our show today is called"Steering the Edtech Ship."
MARLEE GIVENS (03:40):
And we will unpack what that means with
the help of ourguest, Warren Goetzel,
who is Director of AcademicTechnology and Engagement
for Georgia Tech's Officeof Information Technology,
as well as Director of Externaland Faculty Engagement with
the Center for 21stCentury Universities.
Warren, welcome to the show.
WARREN GOETZEL (03:57):
Good morning.
Thank you for having me.
MARLEE GIVENS (03:58):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (03:59):
Or, good afternoon, sorry.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:00):
We just started the afternoon, yeah.
So you you're one of those, hey,do this job too, folks, here
at Tech.
They've grabbed youfor two big things.
WARREN GOETZEL (04:09):
Yeah, I started the appointment with the Center
for 21st University--sorry, C21U for short.
We'll just call itC21U moving forward.
I started that last year.
So I just finished myinaugural year in that role
and looking forwardfor what this year has
in store for that role.
It made a lot ofsense for me, based
(04:31):
on all the work I do inthe partnership ecosystem
that we've created here atGeorgia Tech surrounding
Academic Technology.
My title in OIT also hasthe word engagement in it--
Director of AcademicTechnology and Engagement.
And really, I tell folks,probably 90% of what I do
is in the engagement space,partnering with stakeholders
all across campus, primarilyin the academic units
(04:53):
such as the Library andour Center for Teaching
and Learning, and GeorgiaTech Professional Education,
and now the new Collegeof Lifetime Learning.
MARLEE GIVENS (05:01):
So you just said academic technology.
Is that the same aseducational technology?
WARREN GOETZEL (05:07):
It's interesting you asked that.
Part of my dissertation hada section about nomenclature.
In the instructional technology,or educational technology,
or digital learning space,there are subtle nuances
between all the terminology,but it's basically all the same.
It's the intersectionof technology,
(05:30):
tools to support and enhanceteaching and learning.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:33):
Do those subtle nuances--
do they come to play whenyou're in it with other experts,
or the subtle nuances are sortof just out there the way people
use it?
WARREN GOETZEL (05:44):
Yeah, they're pretty much just out there.
They're used fairlyinterchangeably
here at Georgia Tech.
So my team is known asthe Digital Learning team.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:53):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL: Everyone on my team (05:54):
undefined
has a digital learning title inthe digital learning job family
here at Georgia Tech, but mytitle is Academic Technology.
So they're used prettyinterchangeably.
MARLEE GIVENS (06:04):
Mm.
WARREN GOETZEL (06:05):
And there's also a Director of Digital Learning
Technologies--
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:10):
Oh, man.
WARREN GOETZEL (06:11):
--in the Center for 21st Century University
as well, Doctor Eric Sembrat.
And so he's one ofmy close partners
as well, in the work that Ido there and in Central IT.
MARLEE GIVENS (06:21):
Can you just define what--
[LAUGHTER]
No matter what youcall it, what is it?
For our audience who is a mixof library folks and people
who are just listeningto the radio,
how would you defineeducational technology?
WARREN GOETZEL (06:38):
Sure.
I think in thesimplest form, it's
using technology to supportand enhance teaching
and learning, in hopes ofimpacting student success
and making teachingand learning easier
for both faculty and students.
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:55):
And when we say technology,
are we basically sayingcomputers and the internet,
or is there a lot moreto it that I'm not
thinking of right now becauseI don't work in the field?
WARREN GOETZEL (07:06):
Yeah, that's a great question
because I kind of put computersin the hardware category.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:12):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (07:13):
And the work I do, my team and tangentially,
we don't really workwith hardware at all
except for in the XR space.
So we've really beendiving in, in partnership
with the library in particular,into XR at Georgia Tech.
So we've purchasedand played around
with a whole bunch of headsets.
(07:35):
And that's really thefirst time that we've
intersected with hardware.
So AV Services isanother group on campus
that supports theclassroom technologies.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:47):
Mhm.
WARREN GOETZEL (07:47):
And that is mostly hardware based.
Some software, obviously,behind operating that hardware
in the classroom.
So yeah, that's abig distinction.
We don't deal with classroomlearning technologies.
Our entire portfoliois cloud based.
So I would say what we do isreally on the software side.
Got it.
FRED RASCOE (08:04):
So the one educational technology
that comes to mind, that Ithink that I know that you deal
closely with is called Canvas.
And that is a platform whereinstructors and students
interact with each otherwhile not physically
in the same space.
Students turn in theirhomework via this platform
(08:25):
electronically to the professor.
They have discussion groups.
Is that, I guess, the mainthing of the main category
of educational technology?
Or are there lots of otherkinds of technologies
that our students hereuse, that is directly
(08:45):
in your office space?
WARREN GOETZEL (08:48):
Yes.
[LAUGHTER]
So my team was foundedin 2017 to support
the implementation of Canvasand the buildout of the larger
digital learning ecosystem.
So Canvas you canthink of as the hub
or the epicenter of thedigital learning ecosystem
at Georgia Tech.
And we have now upwardsof 50 other platforms
(09:09):
and tools, primarily allintegrated within Canvas.
So there's usually not aneed to go outside of Canvas
to access the other platformsand tools used for teaching
and learning, whether it'scommunication or student
engagement or a wide varietyof other technologies.
So yeah, we look at it as thehub and spoke kind of model.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:27):
Are you creating some of those?
Are those plugins?
Is it just a mix of stuff?
I feel overwhelmed,is why I'm asking
this sort of broad question.
What are all those 50 things?
WARREN GOETZEL (09:37):
Yeah.
I almost feel like I plantedyou with that question,
but I didn't.
So yeah, like Isaid, our portfolio
is entirely cloud based.
The vast majority is SaaS based,meaning we procure platforms
from third parties such asCanvas from Instructure.
FRED RASCOE (09:54):
Software as a service.
WARREN GOETZEL (09:56):
Software as a service, exactly.
Sorry for using acronyms.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:59):
There are a lot of them.
WARREN GOETZEL (10:01):
Yeah, there are.
We actually starteda OneNote notebook
for all the acronymsfor our new employees.
And we have about 250 ofthem that are commonly
used around Georgia Tech.
So we also do develop andmaintain our own applications
as well.
So since I started, wehave had a partnership
(10:23):
with C21U, where theirapplication developers support
custom developmentof applications
for teaching andlearning, learning tools
that we haveintegrated into Canvas,
as well as backend functionalityfor my team to help oversee
the administration of Canvas.
CHARLIE BENNETT (10:42):
I want to blow by our segment time
for one last question,which I think
is a good one for the show,which is, how does this
relate to libraries?
And you have 30 seconds toanswer that in its entirety.
WARREN GOETZEL (10:56):
Yeah.
Well, I see the workwe do as inextricably
linked with libraries.
I actually have a librarybackground myself.
I have a Library Sciencedegree from Georgia State.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:07):
Oh my gosh, you're one of us.
I had no idea.
MARLEE GIVENS: Oh, spoiler alert. (11:10):
undefined
More on that later.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:12):
Oh, sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL: And it was really (11:15):
undefined
through academic technologythat I became interested
in libraries.
I actually started my endeavorsin academic technology way
back in 1999.
And I think we canpick up there because I
think we're out of time.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:30):
Look at him.
He's running the show.
This is Lost in the Stacks.
We'll be back with more fromWarren after a music set.
MARLEE GIVENS (11:37):
And you can file this set under LB1028.3.I57.
[JESUS LIZARD, "BOILERMAKER"]
[BURNING SPEAR, "PEOPLE GETREADY"]
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:53):
That's "People Get Ready," by Burning Spear.
And we startedwith "Boilermaker,"
by the Jesus Lizard.
Who's back?
Those were songs about learningand the supplementary materials
that help us learn lessons.
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
MARLEE GIVENS (12:10):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and we are speakingwith Warren Goetzel,
from Georgia Tech's Officeof Information Technology
and the Center for 21--
21st Century Universities.
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:20):
That's why it's an acronym.
MARLEE GIVENS: Twenty-one-st. Yeah. (12:20):
undefined
WARREN GOETZEL (12:21):
C21U.
MARLEE GIVENS (12:22):
C21U.
FRED RASCOE (12:22):
C21U is a little easier.
MARLEE GIVENS (12:24):
Our show today is called "Steering the Edtech
Ship," and it is time toget to the steering part.
So I want to talk about thiseducational technology steering
committee.
What is that?
WARREN GOETZEL (12:36):
ETSC for short.
There's another one--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
--for you.
CHARLIE BENNETT: What is going on? (12:39):
undefined
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL: And the ETSC also (12:41):
undefined
feeds up into a higherlevel executive group
called the EIC, the EducationInnovation Commission,
here at Georgia Tech.
And so the ETSC is across-functional group
of stakeholders in the digitallearning, academic technology
space across campusthat was founded
(13:04):
by C21U before I got here.
So I got here in 2017and began partnering
with the past director ofDigital Learning Technologies
in C21U on that effort.
And it meets monthly.
And we discuss all thingsacademic technology
(13:26):
that are happening acrosscampus and how we can partner
and collaborate on initiativesand new and emerging
technologies and just cometo a broader understanding
of what's going on acrosscampus in all the various units.
So we have college IT directors.
We have librarians.
We have OIT staff.
(13:48):
We have A/V services.
We have our AdministrativeService Center, or ASC.
Maybe acronyms should beanother theme for the show.
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:55):
I don't want to write any of these acronyms
down.
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL (13:58):
And faculty and staff from across campus.
CHARLIE BENNETT (14:01):
So you've got director in, I think,
both your titles.
You're on a steering committee.
And this is going to soundlike a joke, but it's not.
So the kind of-- takingresponsibility for vision
and vision changes and thedirection of the larger
movements on the campus--
that's the kind of thing thatI don't want to be a part of.
I very much enjoy working onthe stuff that I'm good at now
(14:25):
and doing smallinnovations within those,
like this radio showor things like that.
How does it feel to beat that level of guidance
and talking about whatthe institute's going
to do in 5, 10 years?
You feel comfortable with that?
WARREN GOETZEL (14:41):
Yeah, I do.
I feel comfortable onboth sides of that fence.
So in OIT, I manage a team thatoversees the administration
of the technologies,the platforms
and tools, the administration,and provide support
for faculty and students.
And that kind of work isvery rewarding as well,
direct contact withcustomers, with stakeholders
(15:01):
across the institution,with students, especially.
But then zooming out,the strategic work
at the leadership levelis also very rewarding
because that reallytakes you out
of your comfort zone in a spacewhere you don't own or control
what you're working on.
What you're trying to dois engage with stakeholders
(15:24):
across campus and garner supportto build that vision and mission
and implement the technologiesthat support that.
CHARLIE BENNETT (15:31):
And getting the buy-in--
is that kind of like, hey, we'regoing to use this tool now,
so everybody geton board, or we're
going to use this toolfor these purposes?
What are the big guidancekind of things you have to do?
WARREN GOETZEL (15:45):
Yeah.
I would say thereis some of that.
So the technologiesin our portfolio
really have grown organicallyout of needs from faculty
and students acrosscampus, so we don't really
push top down any technologies.
Canvas was chosen froma cross-functional team
across campus offaculty, administrators.
(16:05):
And all the technologiesthat we have integrated
there were either oncampus already and my team
assumed ownership ofthose technologies
to be managed at atrue enterprise level.
And then therewere some that were
acquired along the wayas a result of needs
from others across campus.
FRED RASCOE (16:24):
So you mentioned that all
the different participantsfrom all over campus that
are involved in thiscommittee-- and you
did mention that librarianswere a part of that.
Marlee, I thinkthat's you, isn't it?
MARLEE GIVENS (16:38):
It's not just me.
CHARLIE BENNETT (16:40):
OK.
MARLEE GIVENS (16:41):
No, and I was not the first.
Someone that you commutewith or used to commute with
started it, right?
Well, all jokingaside, can you tell us
why the library ison this committee?
WARREN GOETZEL (16:53):
Sure.
Because like I startedtalking about before,
I see libraries and technologiesas inextricably linked,
especially as librarieshave transformed
over the past decade or two--
overseeing that transition inAtlanta Public Schools, where
I used to manage theschool library system,
really moving from the olddays of the card catalog
(17:16):
and really movingtowards a digital age.
And very often librariansare not only charged with
but are keenlyinterested in leveraging
those technologies to supportthe academics across campus.
MARLEE GIVENS (17:32):
And I was going to say in our first segment,
I think when a lot of peoplethink of educational technology
they're thinkingabout the K-12 space.
So is there anything differentin the college and university
setting?
WARREN GOETZEL: It's 110% different. (17:48):
undefined
[LAUGHTER]
I mean, there are some basicprinciples like data security
and privacy that are criticalno matter what space you're
working in.
But in universities, facultyhave a great amount of autonomy
(18:10):
that does not exist in K-12.
In K-12--
CHARLIE BENNETT: I think that's-- (18:15):
undefined
WARREN GOETZEL (18:16):
It's more prescribed.
CHARLIE BENNETT: --nice way of saying (18:17):
undefined
that you have to follow a muchmore rigid kind of learning
plan, right, in grade school.
WARREN GOETZEL (18:24):
Yeah, there's definitely
defined curriculum and definedresources that you're allowed
or not allowed to use.
FRED RASCOE (18:33):
But still, in academia, there's
the-- as you described it,the hub and the spokes,
Canvas as the huband the spokes.
And a faculty member can't justsay, well, I don't like that.
I'm going to use a newhub or different spokes.
MARLEE GIVENS (18:45):
Oh, Fred, this is Georgia Tech.
FRED RASCOE (18:47):
Uh, yeah.
OK.
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL (18:49):
So we try and encourage
faculty to use the technologiesthat are authorized
for use at Georgia Tech.
That way, we canensure that they've
been vetted appropriatelyfor security, for privacy,
to protect FERPA data, inparticular, being learning
technologies.
And we do find that facultyare using other technologies.
(19:14):
And that often is a good segueinto learning about and adopting
new technologies across campus.
So it's not 100% prescriptive.
We do provide a portfolioof platforms and tools,
but certainly, faculty are freeand do use other technologies
as well.
FRED RASCOE (19:31):
Well, you're listening to Lost in the Stacks,
and we'll be back with moreon educational technology,
instruction technology,academic technology--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Keep using them. (19:39):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (19:40):
Right, yeah.
There's probably more.
CHARLIE BENNETT (19:41):
Acronyms.
Come on.
FRED RASCOE (19:42):
And libraries on the left side of the hour.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MATTHEW FULLER (20:01):
Hi.
I'm Matthew Fullerfrom the Center
for Cultural Studies atGoldsmiths University of London.
And this is Lost in the Stacks,the one and only research
library rock androll radio show.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (20:21):
Today's show is called "Steering the Edtech
Ship," and we are examining therelationship between educational
technology and libraries.
MARLEE GIVENS (20:29):
In a 2014 post for ACRL, librarian Steven J.
Bell wrote about what hecalled the "edtech tech surge,"
a recent proliferation ofeducational technologies
in the K-16 sphere.
Bell admits that thesurge feels overwhelming,
and he offerscuriosity as the cure.
So among his recommendations--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Explore three to five (20:50):
undefined
new educationaltechnologies a week.
FRED RASCOE (20:54):
Ask forgiveness rather than permission,
except when introducinga new technology
to someone else's class.
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:00):
Keep up with the edtech community.
MARLEE GIVENS (21:03):
And for this, he recommends about a dozen
blogs and other sites.
So at this point inreading the post,
I have to admit I found myselfmore overwhelmed than curious.
I mean, three to fivetechnologies a week,
engaging with anotherprofessional community?
Because, of course, keeping upwith things is still something
we all do.
And the amount of things tokeep up with continues to grow.
(21:27):
But then I got to Bell'sfinal recommendation,
and it is still relevant.
He says, "Explorationis good, but ask why.
Before falling in love withany one edtech product,
make sure it serves asthe solution to a learning
or instructional gapinstead of hunting
for a problem for which itcould serve as a solution.
In any event, it's goodto know what's out there
(21:49):
and how it works.
And you never know when aparticular instructional product
could become thefavorite option."
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:55):
And while you're chewing on that,
file this set under BF-1261.B35.
[BIG SAM'S FUNKY NATION, "WHO'SGONNA HELP BROTHER GET FURTHER"]
[OSEES, "SCRAMBLE SUIT II"]
MARLEE GIVENS (22:14):
That was "Scramble Suit II"
by Three Oh Sees,and before that,
we heard "Who's GonnaHelp Brother Get Further"
by Big Sam's Funky Nation.
Songs about working togetherto learn more and see more.
FRED RASCOE (22:28):
Thee Oh Sees.
There's more thanthree, I think.
MARLEE GIVENS (22:31):
Oh.
FRED RASCOE (22:33):
So there you go.
WARREN GOETZEL (22:34):
There are more than three.
There's two drummersin the room itself.
[LAUGHTER]
FRED RASCOE (22:38):
Anyway.
MARLEE GIVENS (22:39):
You can tell I didn't put any of these
together.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:42):
I love being on the radio on Fridays.
MARLEE GIVENS (22:43):
Yeah.
Welcome back, everyone,to Lost in the Stacks.
And we are continuingour interview
with Warren Goetzel, who, likemany members of the academy,
has two job titles.
Now, prior to joining theacademy, you were in K-12,
and you had a media servicestitle at some point.
(23:06):
And you have a masters oflibrary and information science.
WARREN GOETZEL: Yeah, that's right. (23:08):
undefined
As I started to mention before,I started at Georgia State
in the late '90s in a scienceeducation prep program to teach
K-12, which really focusedon integrating technology.
And back then, that was,like, Netscape Navigator.
CHARLIE BENNETT (23:25):
Holy cow.
WARREN GOETZEL: Building websites (23:26):
undefined
and using very primordiallearning management systems.
I really got interestedin the technology side.
So I actually gotout of the classroom
and started working asan educational technology
specialist for thedistrict, floating around
to different schools, supportingteachers in their integration
(23:47):
of learning technologies.
And I quickly noticedthat intersection
of academic technologyand libraries
and decided I would pausemy instructional technology
education specialist degreeand dive into a library science
(24:08):
program.
So I worked on themconcurrently and finished them
both in about 2005and then was asked
to step in and help supportthe library services program
in Atlanta Public Schools,which had then just
merged with the learningtechnologies department.
So that is how I first cameto see how inextricably
(24:30):
linked they really are.
And as time went on, I cameto take over that department
and manage the professionallearning, the technologies,
the procurement of printresources for about
a hundred libraries, a hundredlibrarians around the district.
FRED RASCOE (24:50):
So you went into this, but what I wanted to ask
you was when you realizedthat moment of connection
that educational technologieshad with libraries,
was there a thingthat you were doing?
Was there, like, a test--like, you were doing something
or involved in a project?
And was there kind of alight bulb moment where
that kind of integration hit?
WARREN GOETZEL: Yes, but not along (25:12):
undefined
the lines thatyou're speaking of.
So for me, it wasmy career path.
And I was really interestedin learning technologies.
And at the time, therewas no certification
for educators in Georgiarelated to digital learning,
instructional technology,learning technologies at all.
(25:32):
The closest thingwas library science.
And at the time, there was DOErules that required librarians
in all the schools.
So it seemed like a veryappealing career path
to choose because therewas a degree available.
The positions were required.
They were funded.
There was funding for libraries.
(25:54):
And so I decided to go that pathbecause there weren't really
jobs that were specificallyfunded or required
in K-12 related todigital learning
or instructional technology.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:05):
So that's wild.
You were at the beginning oflearning technology as a career.
And you caught the endof libraries as a career.
MARLEE GIVENS (26:14):
I was going to say--
I mean, you'retalking about funding.
The difference in fundingbetween instructional technology
and libraries, I think,is astounding nowadays.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:26):
Yeah.
You're like a surferwho caught a wave,
and when it broke on theshore, you ended up in a Jeep
that then just went right off.
It's kind of amazing.
MARLEE GIVENS (26:34):
Yeah.
I think instructionaltechnology gives this illusion
that there's some product--
there's some technologythat can make education
more efficient and cheaper.
And there's nothing in thatwith libraries, I think.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:50):
Do you ever miss it?
WARREN GOETZEL (26:52):
I do miss it.
I primarily miss the people.
And for example, I was justtexting over the weekend
with the currentperson who serves
in that capacity at AtlantaPublic Schools and the person
that I brought on thatsucceeded me when I left,
who also has now left-- sheretired, fortunately for her.
(27:15):
And they are sponsoring thedistrict-wide reading ball
this weekend.
That's the HelenRuffin Reading Bowl.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:22):
Oh, yeah.
MARLEE GIVENS (27:22):
Oh, yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (27:23):
And so I brought that to Atlanta Public Schools.
We did not participate inthe statewide reading bowl
competition whenI started there.
And so I founded that effortat Atlanta Public Schools.
Started out with two orthree teams back in 2007.
And now it is a huge,district-wide event
with dozens of schools, hundredsand hundreds of students.
(27:45):
So I miss some of thatliteracy-focused programming
as well, for sure.
And the printmaterials, the books.
I miss that.
CHARLIE BENNETT: The Reading Bowl-- (27:53):
undefined
I'm going to blowpast this timing,
also, for this last question.
My daughter is in theReading Bowl tomorrow, so--
WARREN GOETZEL (28:00):
Excellent.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:01):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (28:02):
In Atlanta?
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:03):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (28:04):
No details.
[LAUGHS]
CHARLIE BENNETT: The Reading Bowl (28:06):
undefined
feels like the physical or thematerial version of the learning
technology stuff,like bringing together
something that createscollaboration, that
brings manystakeholders together,
and they passinformation around.
Is that where theconnections are for you,
(28:28):
or am I barking upthe wrong tree there?
WARREN GOETZEL: You're not barking up (28:30):
undefined
the wrong tree altogether.
But for me, it reallywas the love of reading.
So I also gravitatedtoward the library field
because I spent mychildhood in the library
and a lot of my college career.
But yeah, I was a latchkey kidand always go to the library
after school.
I was a voracious reader.
(28:52):
When I was a kid,there wasn't much to do
other than play outside orread or take things apart.
[LAUGHTER]
And hopefully, maybe,put them back together.
FRED RASCOE (29:00):
The 80s were a different time.
I was there, too.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:03):
Do we have our Gen X shirts around here?
WARREN GOETZEL (29:05):
I wasn't allowed to be bored.
If I ever dared to say I wasbored, I was told to get a book,
and I wouldn't be bored.
Yeah, I loved the book fair,loved everything about reading,
loved the librarians.
Like, I read every book inevery library I went to.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:19):
I love it.
MARLEE GIVENS (29:20):
That's such a great note to end on.
This is Lost in the Stacks.
Our guest today hasbeen Warren Goetzel,
Director of AcademicTechnology Engagement--
and Engagement for GeorgiaTech's Office of Information
Technology and Director ofExternal and Faculty Engagement
with the Center for 21stCentury Universities.
I got it out this time.
Warren, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
WARREN GOETZEL: Thank you so much. (29:41):
undefined
It was a pleasure.
FRED RASCOE (29:43):
File this set under HD-588.8.G55.
[BAG MEN, "BOIL AWAY"]
[KIM GORDON, "BYE BYE"]
(30:06):
That was "BYE BYE" by Kim Gordonfrom her recent solo album.
And before that, "BoilAway" by the Bag Men.
Those are songs abouthandling transitions.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MARLEE GIVENS (30:27):
Our show today was called "Steering the Edtech
Ship."
And rather than wrappingup with a question
about educationaltechnology or sailing--
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:35):
Oh, good.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:36):
--I wanted to point out
that today is the 15 yearanniversary to the day of Lost
in the Stacks.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:42):
Holy cow.
The first broadcast.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:44):
Yeah.
So, I-- we all know whatCharlie was doing that day.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:49):
Sweating.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:50):
I was preparing to leave my previous place
of work for a new job at theGeorgia Tech Library, which
I started in February of 2010.
Warren, do you rememberwhat you might have
been doing in January 2010?
WARREN GOETZEL (31:01):
I do.
I was celebrating myfirst wedding anniversary
and getting ready for thearrival of my youngest
son a few weeks later.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:10):
Wow.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:11):
Wow.
0 to 60 in the first year.
WARREN GOETZEL (31:12):
Yep.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:13):
Fred?
FRED RASCOE (31:14):
OK, so I don't exactly remember January 2010.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:18):
You and everybody else, man.
[LAUGHTER]
FRED RASCOE (31:21):
Yeah, man.
But I pulled-- I wentinto my old Gmail account.
And, of course, the firstepisode, Lost in the Stacks
was this date in 2010.
The second-- it wason a Sunday night.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:32):
Sunday.
Sunday special.
FRED RASCOE (31:34):
Yeah.
They did a coupleof Sunday night
shows before we got theregular Friday slot.
But the second show wasalmost a month later
on another Sunday evening.
I didn't catch the first one,but I caught the second one.
Now, I don't rememberthe second one,
but I did write to AmeetDoshi about it, the person who
started the show--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Co-founder with me. (31:55):
undefined
Yeah.
FRED RASCOE (31:56):
--with you, Charlie, because it was just you
and Ameet for a few years.
And I emailed Ameet.
Said, hey, I caught the show.
And the email thatI got back from him
reads, in part, "Thanksfor tuning in to the show.
We're a library showwith a music problem.
Yeah.
We're that geeky."
That was from Ameet.
[LAUGHTER]
He says-- he goes on--
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:16):
I do remember that, yeah.
FRED RASCOE (32:17):
He goes on to say, "It's a fun side project,
and I'm still a little rusty.
The content anddelivery will hopefully
get better as we do more shows.
Our third show is scheduledfor this Friday at noon.
It's going to be called'Maps and Legends.'
We'll be interviewing"--
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:33):
I remember that one.
FRED RASCOE (32:34):
--"the GIS librarian,
a student aboutlibrary geocache,
and some GIS researchers."
And then a few otherthings he says--
"I hope to see youall again soon."
So I didn't hearthe first episode,
but I went to college withAmeet, so we were friends,
and he told meabout the show, so I
did hear the second episode.
(32:55):
So that's what I wasdoing in February of 2010.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Fred, I'm so misty. (32:59):
undefined
Will you please justroll the credits?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lost in the Stacks is a 15-yearcollaboration between WREK
Atlanta and theGeorgia Tech Library,
currently written and producedby Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
MARLEE GIVENS (33:20):
Legal counsel and a tall ship
and a star to steerher by were provided
by the Burrus IntellectualProperty Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Thank you, Phillip, (33:28):
undefined
for being there all 15 years.
I think we got an email fromyou after the very first show.
Special thanks to Warrenfor being on the show,
to the rest of the educationaltechnology steering
committee at Georgia Tech,and thanks, as always,
for ever and ever, toall of you for listening.
MARLEE GIVENS (33:45):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Next week's show (33:55):
undefined
is a look into thefuture from 2001,
so looking back to the future.
Oh.
I think I know wherewe'll get the cold open.
Hmm.
FRED RASCOE (34:05):
Time for our last song today
from Warren's list of bandsseen in 2024, just like all
the other ones have been.
This song doesn't really haveto do with learning technology,
I don't think, ortransitions or sailing
or any of the other thingswe've mentioned today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:20):
When has that ever stopped you, Fred?
FRED RASCOE (34:22):
Exactly.
This one is all about themusic and how important music
is in our lives.
I know I'd give up a lotbefore I gave up rock and roll.
Speaking for me, personally.
So from 1972, this is theBrazilian band Os Mutantes
with the track--
OK, here we go.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah, you got it. (34:40):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (34:40):
"Posso Perder Minha Mulher,
Minha Mae Desde que EuTenha o Rock and Roll."
OK.
I am sure I mangledthat Portuguese title,
but it translates to, "I couldlose my wife and my mother
as long as I haverock and roll."
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:54):
How dare you?
FRED RASCOE (34:55):
Have a great weekend, everybody.
[OS MUTANTES, "POSSOPERDER MINHA MULHER,
MINHA MAE DESDE QUE EUTENHA O ROCK AND ROLL"]
[BIRDS CHIRPING, CHEERING,CLAPPING]
[SINGING IN PORTUGUESE]
People especially don't want to do their jobs.
(00:02):
I've found thatout recently, too.
I have a friend named Megan.
She's an elementaryschool teacher.
And I was out withher one night and she
was drinking like a monster.
[LAUGHTER]
And I said to her, don't youhave to do a shift at school
tomorrow?
And she went, ah, I'lljust show a video.
And I was like, that'swhy teachers show videos?
She said this.
She goes, yeah, Idon't want to work.
(00:23):
And I was like, you know, thekids don't want to work either.
And she was like, good.
[LAUGHTER]
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:51):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in theStacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett,in the studio
with Marlee Givensand Fred Rascoe,
and a guest to be named later.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
Whichever you're herefor, we hope you dig it.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:12):
Our show today is called "Steering the Edtech
Ship."
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:16):
OK, Marlee, normally I
would have no time for thenautical or pirate puns
that are about to comefrom a title like that.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:24):
Yarr.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:24):
But my son is super into pirates right now,
so I'm a full sail on this one.
FRED RASCOE (01:30):
Yarr.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:31):
There you go.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:31):
OK, well, before we let the sailing metaphor go
too far, I shouldexplain that we're
talking about an actualsteering committee.
I just added the ship for fun.
FRED RASCOE (01:40):
Yarr.
MARLEE GIVENS: [LAUGHS] Well, OK. (01:41):
undefined
Our Lost in the Stacks crewwill be all hands on deck,
as we learn the ropes ofeducational technology
and its relation to libraries.
By and large, we're not just twoships that pass in the night.
So let's get underway.
FRED RASCOE (01:57):
Yarr.
Damn the torpedoes,full steam ahead.
CHARLIE BENNETT: OK, Marlee, first (02:00):
undefined
rate usage of by andlarge as a nautical term,
but let's keep an evenkeel from now on, OK?
FRED RASCOE (02:07):
Oh, are you not a fan of the puns?
CHARLIE BENNETT: Don't pun me, Fred. (02:10):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (02:12):
Schooner or later, you'll come around.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:15):
I'm going to-- after--
just you wait.
FRED RASCOE (02:18):
[LAUGHS] [STAMMERS] Our songs today are all going
to be pulled from a list ofartists that our guest saw live
in concert in thelast 12 months,
so that's a pretty cool thing.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:29):
I love a theme, man.
MARLEE GIVENS (02:30):
Mhm.
FRED RASCOE (02:30):
So we'll have songs about teaching,
working together, andtransitions, all from that list.
And since we've got anautical theme going so far,
it sounds like, my firstthought was to start off
with a yacht rock song.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:42):
Maybe no?
FRED RASCOE (02:44):
Well, there's not a lot of yacht rockers
on this list that are--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:50):
I wouldn't think so.
FRED RASCOE (02:51):
But Neil Young is on the list.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:53):
Hey.
FRED RASCOE (02:54):
He has some yacht-rock-adjacent tracks,
maybe--
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:56):
How dare you?
FRED RASCOE (02:57):
--fair to say?
Yeah, I mean, we'll fudgethe definition a little bit.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:00):
OK.
FRED RASCOE (03:01):
So let's sail on to our music, with "Sail Away"--
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:04):
Fred.
FRED RASCOE (03:05):
--by Neil Young and Crazy Horse,
right here on Lostin the Stacks.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:09):
Well, it's Neil, so I'll allow it.
MARLEE GIVENS (03:11):
Yarr.
[NEIL YOUNG AND CRAZY HORSE,"SAIL AWAY"]
(SINGING) As longas we can sail away
CHARLIE BENNETT: That was "Sail Away" (03:31):
undefined
by Neil Young and CrazyHorse, right here on Lost
in the Stacks.
Our show today is called"Steering the Edtech Ship."
MARLEE GIVENS (03:40):
And we will unpack what that means with
the help of ourguest, Warren Goetzel,
who is Director of AcademicTechnology and Engagement
for Georgia Tech's Officeof Information Technology,
as well as Director of Externaland Faculty Engagement with
the Center for 21stCentury Universities.
Warren, welcome to the show.
WARREN GOETZEL (03:57):
Good morning.
Thank you for having me.
MARLEE GIVENS (03:58):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (03:59):
Or, good afternoon, sorry.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:00):
We just started the afternoon, yeah.
So you you're one of those, hey,do this job too, folks, here
at Tech.
They've grabbed youfor two big things.
WARREN GOETZEL (04:09):
Yeah, I started the appointment with the Center
for 21st University--sorry, C21U for short.
We'll just call itC21U moving forward.
I started that last year.
So I just finished myinaugural year in that role
and looking forwardfor what this year has
in store for that role.
It made a lot ofsense for me, based
(04:31):
on all the work I do inthe partnership ecosystem
that we've created here atGeorgia Tech surrounding
Academic Technology.
My title in OIT also hasthe word engagement in it--
Director of AcademicTechnology and Engagement.
And really, I tell folks,probably 90% of what I do
is in the engagement space,partnering with stakeholders
all across campus, primarilyin the academic units
(04:53):
such as the Library andour Center for Teaching
and Learning, and GeorgiaTech Professional Education,
and now the new Collegeof Lifetime Learning.
MARLEE GIVENS (05:01):
So you just said academic technology.
Is that the same aseducational technology?
WARREN GOETZEL (05:07):
It's interesting you asked that.
Part of my dissertation hada section about nomenclature.
In the instructional technology,or educational technology,
or digital learning space,there are subtle nuances
between all the terminology,but it's basically all the same.
It's the intersectionof technology,
(05:30):
tools to support and enhanceteaching and learning.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:33):
Do those subtle nuances--
do they come to play whenyou're in it with other experts,
or the subtle nuances are sortof just out there the way people
use it?
WARREN GOETZEL (05:44):
Yeah, they're pretty much just out there.
They're used fairlyinterchangeably
here at Georgia Tech.
So my team is known asthe Digital Learning team.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:53):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL: Everyone on my team (05:54):
undefined
has a digital learning title inthe digital learning job family
here at Georgia Tech, but mytitle is Academic Technology.
So they're used prettyinterchangeably.
MARLEE GIVENS (06:04):
Mm.
WARREN GOETZEL (06:05):
And there's also a Director of Digital Learning
Technologies--
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:10):
Oh, man.
WARREN GOETZEL (06:11):
--in the Center for 21st Century University
as well, Doctor Eric Sembrat.
And so he's one ofmy close partners
as well, in the work that Ido there and in Central IT.
MARLEE GIVENS (06:21):
Can you just define what--
[LAUGHTER]
No matter what youcall it, what is it?
For our audience who is a mixof library folks and people
who are just listeningto the radio,
how would you defineeducational technology?
WARREN GOETZEL (06:38):
Sure.
I think in thesimplest form, it's
using technology to supportand enhance teaching
and learning, in hopes ofimpacting student success
and making teachingand learning easier
for both faculty and students.
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:55):
And when we say technology,
are we basically sayingcomputers and the internet,
or is there a lot moreto it that I'm not
thinking of right now becauseI don't work in the field?
WARREN GOETZEL (07:06):
Yeah, that's a great question
because I kind of put computersin the hardware category.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:12):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (07:13):
And the work I do, my team and tangentially,
we don't really workwith hardware at all
except for in the XR space.
So we've really beendiving in, in partnership
with the library in particular,into XR at Georgia Tech.
So we've purchasedand played around
with a whole bunch of headsets.
(07:35):
And that's really thefirst time that we've
intersected with hardware.
So AV Services isanother group on campus
that supports theclassroom technologies.
CHARLIE BENNETT (07:47):
Mhm.
WARREN GOETZEL (07:47):
And that is mostly hardware based.
Some software, obviously,behind operating that hardware
in the classroom.
So yeah, that's abig distinction.
We don't deal with classroomlearning technologies.
Our entire portfoliois cloud based.
So I would say what we do isreally on the software side.
Got it.
FRED RASCOE (08:04):
So the one educational technology
that comes to mind, that Ithink that I know that you deal
closely with is called Canvas.
And that is a platform whereinstructors and students
interact with each otherwhile not physically
in the same space.
Students turn in theirhomework via this platform
(08:25):
electronically to the professor.
They have discussion groups.
Is that, I guess, the mainthing of the main category
of educational technology?
Or are there lots of otherkinds of technologies
that our students hereuse, that is directly
(08:45):
in your office space?
WARREN GOETZEL (08:48):
Yes.
[LAUGHTER]
So my team was foundedin 2017 to support
the implementation of Canvasand the buildout of the larger
digital learning ecosystem.
So Canvas you canthink of as the hub
or the epicenter of thedigital learning ecosystem
at Georgia Tech.
And we have now upwardsof 50 other platforms
(09:09):
and tools, primarily allintegrated within Canvas.
So there's usually not aneed to go outside of Canvas
to access the other platformsand tools used for teaching
and learning, whether it'scommunication or student
engagement or a wide varietyof other technologies.
So yeah, we look at it as thehub and spoke kind of model.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:27):
Are you creating some of those?
Are those plugins?
Is it just a mix of stuff?
I feel overwhelmed,is why I'm asking
this sort of broad question.
What are all those 50 things?
WARREN GOETZEL (09:37):
Yeah.
I almost feel like I plantedyou with that question,
but I didn't.
So yeah, like Isaid, our portfolio
is entirely cloud based.
The vast majority is SaaS based,meaning we procure platforms
from third parties such asCanvas from Instructure.
FRED RASCOE (09:54):
Software as a service.
WARREN GOETZEL (09:56):
Software as a service, exactly.
Sorry for using acronyms.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:59):
There are a lot of them.
WARREN GOETZEL (10:01):
Yeah, there are.
We actually starteda OneNote notebook
for all the acronymsfor our new employees.
And we have about 250 ofthem that are commonly
used around Georgia Tech.
So we also do develop andmaintain our own applications
as well.
So since I started, wehave had a partnership
(10:23):
with C21U, where theirapplication developers support
custom developmentof applications
for teaching andlearning, learning tools
that we haveintegrated into Canvas,
as well as backend functionalityfor my team to help oversee
the administration of Canvas.
CHARLIE BENNETT (10:42):
I want to blow by our segment time
for one last question,which I think
is a good one for the show,which is, how does this
relate to libraries?
And you have 30 seconds toanswer that in its entirety.
WARREN GOETZEL (10:56):
Yeah.
Well, I see the workwe do as inextricably
linked with libraries.
I actually have a librarybackground myself.
I have a Library Sciencedegree from Georgia State.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:07):
Oh my gosh, you're one of us.
I had no idea.
MARLEE GIVENS: Oh, spoiler alert. (11:10):
undefined
More on that later.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:12):
Oh, sorry.
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL: And it was really (11:15):
undefined
through academic technologythat I became interested
in libraries.
I actually started my endeavorsin academic technology way
back in 1999.
And I think we canpick up there because I
think we're out of time.
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:30):
Look at him.
He's running the show.
This is Lost in the Stacks.
We'll be back with more fromWarren after a music set.
MARLEE GIVENS (11:37):
And you can file this set under LB1028.3.I57.
[JESUS LIZARD, "BOILERMAKER"]
[BURNING SPEAR, "PEOPLE GETREADY"]
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:53):
That's "People Get Ready," by Burning Spear.
And we startedwith "Boilermaker,"
by the Jesus Lizard.
Who's back?
Those were songs about learningand the supplementary materials
that help us learn lessons.
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
MARLEE GIVENS (12:10):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and we are speakingwith Warren Goetzel,
from Georgia Tech's Officeof Information Technology
and the Center for 21--
21st Century Universities.
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:20):
That's why it's an acronym.
MARLEE GIVENS: Twenty-one-st. Yeah. (12:20):
undefined
WARREN GOETZEL (12:21):
C21U.
MARLEE GIVENS (12:22):
C21U.
FRED RASCOE (12:22):
C21U is a little easier.
MARLEE GIVENS (12:24):
Our show today is called "Steering the Edtech
Ship," and it is time toget to the steering part.
So I want to talk about thiseducational technology steering
committee.
What is that?
WARREN GOETZEL (12:36):
ETSC for short.
There's another one--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
--for you.
CHARLIE BENNETT: What is going on? (12:39):
undefined
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL: And the ETSC also (12:41):
undefined
feeds up into a higherlevel executive group
called the EIC, the EducationInnovation Commission,
here at Georgia Tech.
And so the ETSC is across-functional group
of stakeholders in the digitallearning, academic technology
space across campusthat was founded
(13:04):
by C21U before I got here.
So I got here in 2017and began partnering
with the past director ofDigital Learning Technologies
in C21U on that effort.
And it meets monthly.
And we discuss all thingsacademic technology
(13:26):
that are happening acrosscampus and how we can partner
and collaborate on initiativesand new and emerging
technologies and just cometo a broader understanding
of what's going on acrosscampus in all the various units.
So we have college IT directors.
We have librarians.
We have OIT staff.
(13:48):
We have A/V services.
We have our AdministrativeService Center, or ASC.
Maybe acronyms should beanother theme for the show.
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:55):
I don't want to write any of these acronyms
down.
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL (13:58):
And faculty and staff from across campus.
CHARLIE BENNETT (14:01):
So you've got director in, I think,
both your titles.
You're on a steering committee.
And this is going to soundlike a joke, but it's not.
So the kind of-- takingresponsibility for vision
and vision changes and thedirection of the larger
movements on the campus--
that's the kind of thing thatI don't want to be a part of.
I very much enjoy working onthe stuff that I'm good at now
(14:25):
and doing smallinnovations within those,
like this radio showor things like that.
How does it feel to beat that level of guidance
and talking about whatthe institute's going
to do in 5, 10 years?
You feel comfortable with that?
WARREN GOETZEL (14:41):
Yeah, I do.
I feel comfortable onboth sides of that fence.
So in OIT, I manage a team thatoversees the administration
of the technologies,the platforms
and tools, the administration,and provide support
for faculty and students.
And that kind of work isvery rewarding as well,
direct contact withcustomers, with stakeholders
(15:01):
across the institution,with students, especially.
But then zooming out,the strategic work
at the leadership levelis also very rewarding
because that reallytakes you out
of your comfort zone in a spacewhere you don't own or control
what you're working on.
What you're trying to dois engage with stakeholders
(15:24):
across campus and garner supportto build that vision and mission
and implement the technologiesthat support that.
CHARLIE BENNETT (15:31):
And getting the buy-in--
is that kind of like, hey, we'regoing to use this tool now,
so everybody geton board, or we're
going to use this toolfor these purposes?
What are the big guidancekind of things you have to do?
WARREN GOETZEL (15:45):
Yeah.
I would say thereis some of that.
So the technologiesin our portfolio
really have grown organicallyout of needs from faculty
and students acrosscampus, so we don't really
push top down any technologies.
Canvas was chosen froma cross-functional team
across campus offaculty, administrators.
(16:05):
And all the technologiesthat we have integrated
there were either oncampus already and my team
assumed ownership ofthose technologies
to be managed at atrue enterprise level.
And then therewere some that were
acquired along the wayas a result of needs
from others across campus.
FRED RASCOE (16:24):
So you mentioned that all
the different participantsfrom all over campus that
are involved in thiscommittee-- and you
did mention that librarianswere a part of that.
Marlee, I thinkthat's you, isn't it?
MARLEE GIVENS (16:38):
It's not just me.
CHARLIE BENNETT (16:40):
OK.
MARLEE GIVENS (16:41):
No, and I was not the first.
Someone that you commutewith or used to commute with
started it, right?
Well, all jokingaside, can you tell us
why the library ison this committee?
WARREN GOETZEL (16:53):
Sure.
Because like I startedtalking about before,
I see libraries and technologiesas inextricably linked,
especially as librarieshave transformed
over the past decade or two--
overseeing that transition inAtlanta Public Schools, where
I used to manage theschool library system,
really moving from the olddays of the card catalog
(17:16):
and really movingtowards a digital age.
And very often librariansare not only charged with
but are keenlyinterested in leveraging
those technologies to supportthe academics across campus.
MARLEE GIVENS (17:32):
And I was going to say in our first segment,
I think when a lot of peoplethink of educational technology
they're thinkingabout the K-12 space.
So is there anything differentin the college and university
setting?
WARREN GOETZEL: It's 110% different. (17:48):
undefined
[LAUGHTER]
I mean, there are some basicprinciples like data security
and privacy that are criticalno matter what space you're
working in.
But in universities, facultyhave a great amount of autonomy
(18:10):
that does not exist in K-12.
In K-12--
CHARLIE BENNETT: I think that's-- (18:15):
undefined
WARREN GOETZEL (18:16):
It's more prescribed.
CHARLIE BENNETT: --nice way of saying (18:17):
undefined
that you have to follow a muchmore rigid kind of learning
plan, right, in grade school.
WARREN GOETZEL (18:24):
Yeah, there's definitely
defined curriculum and definedresources that you're allowed
or not allowed to use.
FRED RASCOE (18:33):
But still, in academia, there's
the-- as you described it,the hub and the spokes,
Canvas as the huband the spokes.
And a faculty member can't justsay, well, I don't like that.
I'm going to use a newhub or different spokes.
MARLEE GIVENS (18:45):
Oh, Fred, this is Georgia Tech.
FRED RASCOE (18:47):
Uh, yeah.
OK.
[LAUGHTER]
WARREN GOETZEL (18:49):
So we try and encourage
faculty to use the technologiesthat are authorized
for use at Georgia Tech.
That way, we canensure that they've
been vetted appropriatelyfor security, for privacy,
to protect FERPA data, inparticular, being learning
technologies.
And we do find that facultyare using other technologies.
(19:14):
And that often is a good segueinto learning about and adopting
new technologies across campus.
So it's not 100% prescriptive.
We do provide a portfolioof platforms and tools,
but certainly, faculty are freeand do use other technologies
as well.
FRED RASCOE (19:31):
Well, you're listening to Lost in the Stacks,
and we'll be back with moreon educational technology,
instruction technology,academic technology--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Keep using them. (19:39):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (19:40):
Right, yeah.
There's probably more.
CHARLIE BENNETT (19:41):
Acronyms.
Come on.
FRED RASCOE (19:42):
And libraries on the left side of the hour.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MATTHEW FULLER (20:01):
Hi.
I'm Matthew Fullerfrom the Center
for Cultural Studies atGoldsmiths University of London.
And this is Lost in the Stacks,the one and only research
library rock androll radio show.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (20:21):
Today's show is called "Steering the Edtech
Ship," and we are examining therelationship between educational
technology and libraries.
MARLEE GIVENS (20:29):
In a 2014 post for ACRL, librarian Steven J.
Bell wrote about what hecalled the "edtech tech surge,"
a recent proliferation ofeducational technologies
in the K-16 sphere.
Bell admits that thesurge feels overwhelming,
and he offerscuriosity as the cure.
So among his recommendations--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Explore three to five (20:50):
undefined
new educationaltechnologies a week.
FRED RASCOE (20:54):
Ask forgiveness rather than permission,
except when introducinga new technology
to someone else's class.
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:00):
Keep up with the edtech community.
MARLEE GIVENS (21:03):
And for this, he recommends about a dozen
blogs and other sites.
So at this point inreading the post,
I have to admit I found myselfmore overwhelmed than curious.
I mean, three to fivetechnologies a week,
engaging with anotherprofessional community?
Because, of course, keeping upwith things is still something
we all do.
And the amount of things tokeep up with continues to grow.
(21:27):
But then I got to Bell'sfinal recommendation,
and it is still relevant.
He says, "Explorationis good, but ask why.
Before falling in love withany one edtech product,
make sure it serves asthe solution to a learning
or instructional gapinstead of hunting
for a problem for which itcould serve as a solution.
In any event, it's goodto know what's out there
(21:49):
and how it works.
And you never know when aparticular instructional product
could become thefavorite option."
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:55):
And while you're chewing on that,
file this set under BF-1261.B35.
[BIG SAM'S FUNKY NATION, "WHO'SGONNA HELP BROTHER GET FURTHER"]
[OSEES, "SCRAMBLE SUIT II"]
MARLEE GIVENS (22:14):
That was "Scramble Suit II"
by Three Oh Sees,and before that,
we heard "Who's GonnaHelp Brother Get Further"
by Big Sam's Funky Nation.
Songs about working togetherto learn more and see more.
FRED RASCOE (22:28):
Thee Oh Sees.
There's more thanthree, I think.
MARLEE GIVENS (22:31):
Oh.
FRED RASCOE (22:33):
So there you go.
WARREN GOETZEL (22:34):
There are more than three.
There's two drummersin the room itself.
[LAUGHTER]
FRED RASCOE (22:38):
Anyway.
MARLEE GIVENS (22:39):
You can tell I didn't put any of these
together.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:42):
I love being on the radio on Fridays.
MARLEE GIVENS (22:43):
Yeah.
Welcome back, everyone,to Lost in the Stacks.
And we are continuingour interview
with Warren Goetzel, who, likemany members of the academy,
has two job titles.
Now, prior to joining theacademy, you were in K-12,
and you had a media servicestitle at some point.
(23:06):
And you have a masters oflibrary and information science.
WARREN GOETZEL: Yeah, that's right. (23:08):
undefined
As I started to mention before,I started at Georgia State
in the late '90s in a scienceeducation prep program to teach
K-12, which really focusedon integrating technology.
And back then, that was,like, Netscape Navigator.
CHARLIE BENNETT (23:25):
Holy cow.
WARREN GOETZEL: Building websites (23:26):
undefined
and using very primordiallearning management systems.
I really got interestedin the technology side.
So I actually gotout of the classroom
and started working asan educational technology
specialist for thedistrict, floating around
to different schools, supportingteachers in their integration
(23:47):
of learning technologies.
And I quickly noticedthat intersection
of academic technologyand libraries
and decided I would pausemy instructional technology
education specialist degreeand dive into a library science
(24:08):
program.
So I worked on themconcurrently and finished them
both in about 2005and then was asked
to step in and help supportthe library services program
in Atlanta Public Schools,which had then just
merged with the learningtechnologies department.
So that is how I first cameto see how inextricably
(24:30):
linked they really are.
And as time went on, I cameto take over that department
and manage the professionallearning, the technologies,
the procurement of printresources for about
a hundred libraries, a hundredlibrarians around the district.
FRED RASCOE (24:50):
So you went into this, but what I wanted to ask
you was when you realizedthat moment of connection
that educational technologieshad with libraries,
was there a thingthat you were doing?
Was there, like, a test--like, you were doing something
or involved in a project?
And was there kind of alight bulb moment where
that kind of integration hit?
WARREN GOETZEL: Yes, but not along (25:12):
undefined
the lines thatyou're speaking of.
So for me, it wasmy career path.
And I was really interestedin learning technologies.
And at the time, therewas no certification
for educators in Georgiarelated to digital learning,
instructional technology,learning technologies at all.
(25:32):
The closest thingwas library science.
And at the time, there was DOErules that required librarians
in all the schools.
So it seemed like a veryappealing career path
to choose because therewas a degree available.
The positions were required.
They were funded.
There was funding for libraries.
(25:54):
And so I decided to go that pathbecause there weren't really
jobs that were specificallyfunded or required
in K-12 related todigital learning
or instructional technology.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:05):
So that's wild.
You were at the beginning oflearning technology as a career.
And you caught the endof libraries as a career.
MARLEE GIVENS (26:14):
I was going to say--
I mean, you'retalking about funding.
The difference in fundingbetween instructional technology
and libraries, I think,is astounding nowadays.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:26):
Yeah.
You're like a surferwho caught a wave,
and when it broke on theshore, you ended up in a Jeep
that then just went right off.
It's kind of amazing.
MARLEE GIVENS (26:34):
Yeah.
I think instructionaltechnology gives this illusion
that there's some product--
there's some technologythat can make education
more efficient and cheaper.
And there's nothing in thatwith libraries, I think.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:50):
Do you ever miss it?
WARREN GOETZEL (26:52):
I do miss it.
I primarily miss the people.
And for example, I was justtexting over the weekend
with the currentperson who serves
in that capacity at AtlantaPublic Schools and the person
that I brought on thatsucceeded me when I left,
who also has now left-- sheretired, fortunately for her.
(27:15):
And they are sponsoring thedistrict-wide reading ball
this weekend.
That's the HelenRuffin Reading Bowl.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:22):
Oh, yeah.
MARLEE GIVENS (27:22):
Oh, yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (27:23):
And so I brought that to Atlanta Public Schools.
We did not participate inthe statewide reading bowl
competition whenI started there.
And so I founded that effortat Atlanta Public Schools.
Started out with two orthree teams back in 2007.
And now it is a huge,district-wide event
with dozens of schools, hundredsand hundreds of students.
(27:45):
So I miss some of thatliteracy-focused programming
as well, for sure.
And the printmaterials, the books.
I miss that.
CHARLIE BENNETT: The Reading Bowl-- (27:53):
undefined
I'm going to blowpast this timing,
also, for this last question.
My daughter is in theReading Bowl tomorrow, so--
WARREN GOETZEL (28:00):
Excellent.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:01):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (28:02):
In Atlanta?
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:03):
Yeah.
WARREN GOETZEL (28:04):
No details.
[LAUGHS]
CHARLIE BENNETT: The Reading Bowl (28:06):
undefined
feels like the physical or thematerial version of the learning
technology stuff,like bringing together
something that createscollaboration, that
brings manystakeholders together,
and they passinformation around.
Is that where theconnections are for you,
(28:28):
or am I barking upthe wrong tree there?
WARREN GOETZEL: You're not barking up (28:30):
undefined
the wrong tree altogether.
But for me, it reallywas the love of reading.
So I also gravitatedtoward the library field
because I spent mychildhood in the library
and a lot of my college career.
But yeah, I was a latchkey kidand always go to the library
after school.
I was a voracious reader.
(28:52):
When I was a kid,there wasn't much to do
other than play outside orread or take things apart.
[LAUGHTER]
And hopefully, maybe,put them back together.
FRED RASCOE (29:00):
The 80s were a different time.
I was there, too.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:03):
Do we have our Gen X shirts around here?
WARREN GOETZEL (29:05):
I wasn't allowed to be bored.
If I ever dared to say I wasbored, I was told to get a book,
and I wouldn't be bored.
Yeah, I loved the book fair,loved everything about reading,
loved the librarians.
Like, I read every book inevery library I went to.
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:19):
I love it.
MARLEE GIVENS (29:20):
That's such a great note to end on.
This is Lost in the Stacks.
Our guest today hasbeen Warren Goetzel,
Director of AcademicTechnology Engagement--
and Engagement for GeorgiaTech's Office of Information
Technology and Director ofExternal and Faculty Engagement
with the Center for 21stCentury Universities.
I got it out this time.
Warren, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
WARREN GOETZEL: Thank you so much. (29:41):
undefined
It was a pleasure.
FRED RASCOE (29:43):
File this set under HD-588.8.G55.
[BAG MEN, "BOIL AWAY"]
[KIM GORDON, "BYE BYE"]
(30:06):
That was "BYE BYE" by Kim Gordonfrom her recent solo album.
And before that, "BoilAway" by the Bag Men.
Those are songs abouthandling transitions.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MARLEE GIVENS (30:27):
Our show today was called "Steering the Edtech
Ship."
And rather than wrappingup with a question
about educationaltechnology or sailing--
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:35):
Oh, good.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:36):
--I wanted to point out
that today is the 15 yearanniversary to the day of Lost
in the Stacks.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:42):
Holy cow.
The first broadcast.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:44):
Yeah.
So, I-- we all know whatCharlie was doing that day.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:49):
Sweating.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:50):
I was preparing to leave my previous place
of work for a new job at theGeorgia Tech Library, which
I started in February of 2010.
Warren, do you rememberwhat you might have
been doing in January 2010?
WARREN GOETZEL (31:01):
I do.
I was celebrating myfirst wedding anniversary
and getting ready for thearrival of my youngest
son a few weeks later.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:10):
Wow.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:11):
Wow.
0 to 60 in the first year.
WARREN GOETZEL (31:12):
Yep.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:13):
Fred?
FRED RASCOE (31:14):
OK, so I don't exactly remember January 2010.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:18):
You and everybody else, man.
[LAUGHTER]
FRED RASCOE (31:21):
Yeah, man.
But I pulled-- I wentinto my old Gmail account.
And, of course, the firstepisode, Lost in the Stacks
was this date in 2010.
The second-- it wason a Sunday night.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:32):
Sunday.
Sunday special.
FRED RASCOE (31:34):
Yeah.
They did a coupleof Sunday night
shows before we got theregular Friday slot.
But the second show wasalmost a month later
on another Sunday evening.
I didn't catch the first one,but I caught the second one.
Now, I don't rememberthe second one,
but I did write to AmeetDoshi about it, the person who
started the show--
CHARLIE BENNETT: Co-founder with me. (31:55):
undefined
Yeah.
FRED RASCOE (31:56):
--with you, Charlie, because it was just you
and Ameet for a few years.
And I emailed Ameet.
Said, hey, I caught the show.
And the email thatI got back from him
reads, in part, "Thanksfor tuning in to the show.
We're a library showwith a music problem.
Yeah.
We're that geeky."
That was from Ameet.
[LAUGHTER]
He says-- he goes on--
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:16):
I do remember that, yeah.
FRED RASCOE (32:17):
He goes on to say, "It's a fun side project,
and I'm still a little rusty.
The content anddelivery will hopefully
get better as we do more shows.
Our third show is scheduledfor this Friday at noon.
It's going to be called'Maps and Legends.'
We'll be interviewing"--
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:33):
I remember that one.
FRED RASCOE (32:34):
--"the GIS librarian,
a student aboutlibrary geocache,
and some GIS researchers."
And then a few otherthings he says--
"I hope to see youall again soon."
So I didn't hearthe first episode,
but I went to college withAmeet, so we were friends,
and he told meabout the show, so I
did hear the second episode.
(32:55):
So that's what I wasdoing in February of 2010.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Fred, I'm so misty. (32:59):
undefined
Will you please justroll the credits?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Lost in the Stacks is a 15-yearcollaboration between WREK
Atlanta and theGeorgia Tech Library,
currently written and producedby Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
MARLEE GIVENS (33:20):
Legal counsel and a tall ship
and a star to steerher by were provided
by the Burrus IntellectualProperty Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Thank you, Phillip, (33:28):
undefined
for being there all 15 years.
I think we got an email fromyou after the very first show.
Special thanks to Warrenfor being on the show,
to the rest of the educationaltechnology steering
committee at Georgia Tech,and thanks, as always,
for ever and ever, toall of you for listening.
MARLEE GIVENS (33:45):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Next week's show (33:55):
undefined
is a look into thefuture from 2001,
so looking back to the future.
Oh.
I think I know wherewe'll get the cold open.
Hmm.
FRED RASCOE (34:05):
Time for our last song today
from Warren's list of bandsseen in 2024, just like all
the other ones have been.
This song doesn't really haveto do with learning technology,
I don't think, ortransitions or sailing
or any of the other thingswe've mentioned today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:20):
When has that ever stopped you, Fred?
FRED RASCOE (34:22):
Exactly.
This one is all about themusic and how important music
is in our lives.
I know I'd give up a lotbefore I gave up rock and roll.
Speaking for me, personally.
So from 1972, this is theBrazilian band Os Mutantes
with the track--
OK, here we go.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah, you got it. (34:40):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (34:40):
"Posso Perder Minha Mulher,
Minha Mae Desde que EuTenha o Rock and Roll."
OK.
I am sure I mangledthat Portuguese title,
but it translates to, "I couldlose my wife and my mother
as long as I haverock and roll."
CHARLIE BENNETT (34:54):
How dare you?
FRED RASCOE (34:55):
Have a great weekend, everybody.
[OS MUTANTES, "POSSOPERDER MINHA MULHER,
MINHA MAE DESDE QUE EUTENHA O ROCK AND ROLL"]
[BIRDS CHIRPING, CHEERING,CLAPPING]
[SINGING IN PORTUGUESE]
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