March 28, 2025 • 59 mins
Guest: Geoff Hetherington, Archivist and Records Analyst, Archdiocese of Atlanta.
First broadcast March 28 2025. Transcript at https://hdl.handle.net/1853/77514
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"I needed a job."
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
(00:00):
- Christianity's most sacredcodices are in that archive.
Given your recententanglement with the church,
there is a question I'dlike to ask you first here
in the Office of His Holiness.
Do you believe in God, sir?
(00:21):
- Father, I simplybelieve that religion--
- I did not ask if you believewhat man says about God.
I asked if you believe in God.
- I'm an academic.
[END PLAYBACK]
[ROCK MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNET: You are listening (00:57):
undefined
to listening to WREKAtlanta, and this
is Lost in the Stacks,a religious-themed show.
No, it's not.
This is the research libraryrock'n'roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett inthe studio with a crowd.
Everybody's here.
I'm just going tosay Alex Marley
and Fred and Cody are here,and there's some other folks
that we'll talk to later.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
(01:19):
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
Whichever you tune infor, we hope you dig it.
ALEX MCGEE (01:25):
Our show today is called "There's an Archivist
for That?!"
We are launching anew occasional series
that highlights archivistsdoing work where you may not
expect to find them.
CHARLIE BENNET (01:33):
I like that you pronounced
the question mark anexclamation mark simultaneously.
ALEX MCGEE (01:37):
Had to get it.
I wrote it for areason like that.
FRED RASCOE (01:39):
That's hard to do.
CHARLIE BENNET: And I also noticed (01:40):
undefined
that even though we're aresearch library radio show,
we can't seem to getaway from the archivists
now that you're on board, Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (01:48):
What can I say?
FRED RASCOE (01:49):
There are archivists
doing work everywhere, Charlie.
And while I can tell youthat and you know it's true,
I have to admit thatour guest today is
working somewhere that wasn'treally top of mind for me.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:59):
Yeah, and considering
how long that organizationhas been around,
I don't think we shouldbe surprised that they
have an archivist or two.
ALEX MCGEE (02:07):
Seriously, guys.
Come on.
In fact, they have quitea lot all over the world,
but our guest today is anarchivist and records analyst
for Atlanta and a bit more.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:16):
You all are being very coy about what
this organization is.
Is it like a spy shop ora secret organization?
ALEX MCGEE (02:24):
Just wait for it, Charlie.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:25):
I will.
FRED RASCOE (02:26):
All right, so in keeping
with WREK's overallprogramming theme of the day,
honoring Women'sHistory Month, we're
playing all-femaleartists for our music.
And our specificepisode themes today
are about spiritualand physical labor,
preserving memories andrecords of human events
that may for somehave divine meaning.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:44):
I'm starting to think this is not the CIA.
FRED RASCOE (02:46):
You're getting some clues there, Charlie.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:47):
I am.
FRED RASCOE (02:48):
OK.
In any archive, onecan search for history.
In a religious archive, onemay find divine inspiration.
CHARLIE BENNET: Aha, I get it now. (02:54):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (02:56):
So let's start with "Buscando Inspiración,"
which means "searchingfor inspiration,"
by Eme Alfonso right hereon Lost in the Stacks.
[EME ALFONSO,"BUSCANDO INSPIRACIÓN"]
MARLEE GIVENS (03:17):
That was "Buscando Inspiration"
by Eme Alfonso.
This is Lost in the Stacks,and our show today is called
"There's anArchivist for That?!"
ALEX MCGEE (03:27):
Well done.
MARLEE GIVENS (03:28):
It's the first in a new series that's
all about meetingarchivists in places
you may not expect to findthem or, I guess in this case,
maybe overlook.
ALEX MCGEE (03:37):
That's probably fair.
Today, we are talkingto Geoff Hetherington,
archivist and records analystfor-- drum roll, please.
We've built it up so much--
the CatholicArchdiocese of Atlanta.
CHARLIE BENNET: It is a spy shop. (03:48):
undefined
[LAUGHTER]
That joke was so that you couldslide the mic over to Geoff.
There you go.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (03:56):
Hello.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (03:58):
Welcome to the show, Geoff.
Thanks for coming.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (04:00):
Thank you.
CHARLIE BENNET (04:02):
I guess we should talk very much
about what the archivistswork is that you do now,
but it's always importantto find out, how
did you get into this business?
How did you cometo be an archivist?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (04:14):
Sure.
Very carefully, so I didundergrad at Oglethorpe
University, history major,like a lot of history majors,
did not work in thefield of history,
just worked at a corporategig and then decided
I should do somethingmore that I enjoy.
(04:34):
And so I volunteered in thearchives at the Atlanta History
Center just to get a senseof what archives are like,
and I found that I was enjoyingdoing that on my Saturdays
more than what I wasgetting paid to do.
CHARLIE BENNET (04:50):
A story as old as time.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (04:52):
Right.
So I enrolled at GeorgiaState University's Heritage
Preservation Program--
ALEX MCGEE (05:00):
Go, Panthers!
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --yeah, where I met Alex. (05:01):
undefined
And I didn't know--
I wasn't thinking,oh, I'm definitely
going to be an archivist.
But I knew thatI liked archives.
I liked museums.
I liked historic preservation.
And that program kind of hada little bit of everything,
and so that's whatreally drew me to it.
So I graduated from that,and while I was there,
(05:22):
I had an internship atthe Georgia Power Company
in the archives.
And so archivesjust kind of kept
being part of mytraining and my studies,
so that's ultimately what I washired to do after grad school,
so.
ALEX MCGEE (05:38):
And you were initially--
correct me, but you wereworking with corporate archives
when you got out of grad school?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (05:46):
Yes.
So Georgia Power, myinternship-- that was corporate
archives.
And then I worked in corporatearchives for a few years
before coming tothe Archdiocese.
And the Archdioceseis kind of unique--
and we can get to that--but it in many ways
is very much like acorporate archive.
ALEX MCGEE (06:06):
Yeah.
You worked with collectionsfor some notable corporations
that people wouldrecognize, too, though,
so I'm curious howthat prepared you.
What are some ofthose companies?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: So some of the work (06:17):
undefined
I did was for NestleUSA and Hewlett-Packard.
And those are superinteresting collections.
I loved working with them.
It's the type ofthing where I never
knew that I needed to know thehistory of Hewlett-Packard.
But once I knew it, Iwas fascinated by it,
and I loved it.
CHARLIE BENNET (06:37):
You mean on a personal level.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (06:38):
Yeah.
I love becoming-- one of thethings I love about this work is
that I become subject matterexpert or at least subject
matter somewhat-expert on--
CHARLIE BENNET (06:46):
Aficionado.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --yes, on a bunch (06:47):
undefined
of things that I never expectedto know anything about.
ALEX MCGEE (06:53):
I remember getting texts
where it was like theJell-O mold recipes
that Nestlé was pushing fortheir various food products.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (07:00):
Yeah, a lot of really fun old cookbooks
with some verydated recipes that--
CHARLIE BENNET (07:08):
So is it just the fact that they are archives
and they are older informationand detailed information, that's
what appeals to you?
Or was it aboutcorporate matters?
What was the thing that--
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Yeah, I wouldn't (07:20):
undefined
say I'm particularly interestedin corporations as a subject,
but I think that thecollections provide
a context of that businessin a larger context.
Allow myself tointroduce myself.
CHARLIE BENNET (07:38):
Yeah, go for it, yeah.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (07:40):
So Hewlett-Packard, for example,
was very interesting becauseDave Packard served in the Nixon
administration, andso a lot of the papers
were kind of about that andhow the business expanded
internationally anddealing with China.
And it's just super interesting.
So there's a historyof the company
(08:02):
but also a historyof the United States,
of corporations in general, ofthe world contextually peppered
throughout.
CHARLIE BENNET (08:10):
And so I'm going to try and make
a connection between what you donow and the corporate archives.
It seems like youenjoy finding out
small details aboutsomething that
is big enough to just kind of bethe background of the culture.
So I know what Hewlett-Packardis, but that's about it.
I didn't know theguy's name was Dave.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (08:30):
Bill and Dave, Bill Hewitt
and Dave Packard.
CHARLIE BENNET (08:33):
I find that I like them so much more now.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (08:35):
Yeah.
And they were knownas Bill and Dave.
That was their [INAUDIBLE]--
ALEX MCGEE (08:40):
Very approachable names.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --the employees, yep. (08:41):
undefined
CHARLIE BENNET (08:42):
That's great.
We're almost at theend of the segment.
So obviously we'regoing to talk a lot more
about your currentjob, but can you
tell us very quickly howyou jumped from corporate
to religious archives?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (08:54):
Yeah, sure.
I needed a job, andthey were hiring.
And they hired me.
CHARLIE BENNET (09:00):
That's the best story ever.
[LAUGHTER]
MARLEE GIVENS (09:04):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and we'll be back with more withour guest, Geoff Hetherington,
after a music set.
File this set underCS432.C36, no dot, G72.
CHARLIE BENNET (09:18):
Always no dot.
[ALVVAYS, "ARCHIE, MARRY ME"]
[JAPANESE BREAKFAST, "TILLDEATH"]
ALEX MCGEE (09:38):
That was "Till Death"
by Japanese Breakfast andbefore that "Archie, Marry Me"
by Alvvays, songs about officialrecords of events with divine
meaning.
[ROCK MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNET (09:51):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and today's show is called--
OK, let me get this right--
"There's anArchivist for That?!"
FRED RASCOE (09:58):
Yeah, you did it.
CHARLIE BENNET (09:59):
Thank you, Alex, I appreciate it.
MARLEE GIVENS (10:00):
And we're talking with Geoff Hetherington,
archivist and recordsanalyst for the Catholic
Archdiocese of Atlanta.
And I kind of want to stopon the word "archdiocese,"
and can you briefly explain forour audience what an archdiocese
is?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (10:16):
I can try.
So a diocese is just a kind ofgeographical and administrative
boundary within the hierarchyof the Catholic Church.
And so an archdiocese is abigger version of a diocese.
(10:37):
So every diocese has abishop, at least one, and then
an archdiocesehas an archbishop.
And there may be otherbishops, but the "arch"
gives it that one extrastep up the hierarchy.
But yeah, basicallyit's the area
that administrates a bunch ofparishes, schools, missions,
(10:58):
ministries, et cetera.
CHARLIE BENNET (11:00):
I'm afraid I have to ask one more
stupid question.
Do bishops run things?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (11:05):
Yes.
They are kind of, for lack ofa better analogy, like a CEO.
They're the--
CHARLIE BENNET (11:12):
There you go.
That's what I need.
That's the context needed.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --administrative head (11:13):
undefined
of the organization.
CHARLIE BENNET (11:16):
And this brings us back to corporate archives.
So what are the archives?
What do you work with?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Lots of stuff. (11:25):
undefined
So I would sayprobably primarily it
is the records of theday-to-day business
and work of the organization.
So we have-- the centraloffice is called the Chancery,
and there's theOffice of Finance.
(11:46):
So things like financialrecords, annual reports,
stuff like that comes down.
And we have an HR office.
We have anything thatany company would have.
But then also, because it'sthe church, there's ministries.
So there's things likeJustice and Peace Ministries.
There's all sorts of different--the work of the church,
(12:09):
and so those recordscome to us as well.
And then also, there are over100 parishes and missions
within the Archdiocese,so records from them come.
And so that's wherewe become sort of
like a community archive.
So we have records relatedto different churches.
(12:31):
So parish is another sortof geographical boundary
where a church is andso the church records,
things like sacramental records,your baptisms, your marriages.
And then we'll havephotographs of events.
When a new church isbuilt, they do a blessing.
So there will be a program aboutthe blessing of the church,
(12:53):
that kind of thing.
CHARLIE BENNET (12:54):
Were you raised Catholic?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (12:56):
No.
CHARLIE BENNET (12:56):
You didn't know what you were getting
into when you entered this job?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (12:59):
No.
CHARLIE BENNET: What was that like (13:00):
undefined
to learn about the churchfrom its business side?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Very interesting. (13:06):
undefined
I think, similar to what wewere talking about before,
it's a thing I didn'tknow I needed to know.
And now I know it, and Ican't imagine not knowing it.
[LAUGHTER]
It's a fascinating place,lots of different people.
The diversity in theArchdiocese of Atlanta is wild,
(13:29):
and so it's not one--
I think the thingthat I didn't realize
was that, the churchbeing so hierarchical,
I expected a sortof monolithic group,
and it couldn't befurther from the truth.
There's tons of differentcommunities and ways
(13:51):
of celebrating their faith,and it's just really--
it's cool to see.
It's really interesting stuff.
CHARLIE BENNET (13:57):
Do you see--
how many archivists are there?
Are you the onewho sees everything
that's going to be saved?
Or what happens?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: More or less. (14:03):
undefined
So it's the Office ofArchives and Records,
and so we also dorecords management.
And there's three of us in theoffice, the director, Angelique
Richardson, and then me, thearchivist and records analyst.
And then we have a recordsmanager and assistant archivist,
and that's Megan Udell.
CHARLIE BENNET (14:17):
Are there any weird rituals when
you have to shred something?
Do you have to doanything extra?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Not with shredding. (14:21):
undefined
We approve shredding,and so there's
that, the ritual ofjust signing paper.
But we don't-- disposingof certain things that are
blessed--
CHARLIE BENNET (14:34):
This is so what I'm looking for.
[LAUGHTER]
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Certain things (14:37):
undefined
have to be burned or buried.
CHARLIE BENNET (14:40):
Wow.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: And if it's buried, (14:41):
undefined
it has to be on, I believe,consecrated ground.
FRED RASCOE (14:45):
Charlie, are you looking for the plot
of the next Dan Brown novel?
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (14:49):
I am not, Fred, and I'm
going to leave the stationnow that you've said that.
No, I love the--
I love looking atthe extra things that
are added when you get into ararefied kind of organization.
And then religiousorganizations have
even more of that extra oomph.
(15:10):
And I also find itvery interesting
that you walked in as auninitiate to the larger system,
but then now you're into it.
What was I going to saybefore Fred completely
knocked me off my--
I don't know.
Do you have a question,Fred, since I'm just
thinking about Dan Brown now?
FRED RASCOE (15:31):
Oh, I think that's an area that we need to explore.
OK, but let's get back to--let's get back to Geoff.
What sort of researchquestions come in?
You've got recordsthat-- who was married
when, who was baptized when,when was a church built.
What kind of researchneeds access to that?
(15:53):
What kind of questions arethey looking to answer?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (15:55):
Sure.
So you touched onthe sacraments.
So we only havesacramental records
that are of a certain age.
The rest of them, whatwe would consider active,
where the people withinthe records are living,
would be at the parish and notopen for genealogy research.
But we have someof the older ones
(16:17):
that are open, so we do getgenealogy requests for those.
But we also have--
we have some studentrecords for Catholic schools
that have closed.
And so if a school closed,we take the records,
and then so we will gettranscript requests, which isn't
really a research request.
(16:38):
It's a kind of activeneed of an organization.
But we do get that.
We get a lot of requests from--
say a parish ishaving an anniversary
and they want whateverinformation, maybe photographs,
history, the listof priests that
have worked there over time.
So we provide that kindof thing a lot as well.
FRED RASCOE (16:58):
Do you ever find anything juicy,
kind outside ofofficial context?
Maybe somebody wrotesomething in the margins.
CHARLIE BENNET (17:05):
Careful, Fred.
[LAUGHTER]
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Honestly, no. (17:07):
undefined
Most everything comesfrom official channels,
and so it's all pretty official.
It's pretty "run of the mill."
But there might besome correspondence,
like some parishioner hadsome issue with something that
went down at the churchthey didn't like,
and so there's stuff like that.
CHARLIE BENNET (17:28):
Fred was projecting about that Dan Brown
thing.
FRED RASCOE (17:30):
Yeah, I'm going to find that Dan Brown plot
point somewhere.
[LAUGHTER]
MARLEE GIVENS: Hold that thought. (17:35):
undefined
You are listening toLost in the Stacks,
and we will hear more from Geoffon the left side of the hour.
[ROCK MUSIC]
[SURF ROCK]
CLIFF LANDIS (17:52):
Hi, this is Cliff Landis, digital curation
archivist at the GeorgiaTech Library and Archives,
and you are listening to Lost inthe Stacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show--
that's a lot harderto roll off the tongue
than I would have thought--
(18:12):
WREK Atlanta.
ALEX MCGEE (18:16):
Today's show is called "There's an Archivist
for That?"
And speaking withour guest, it is
important to consider theimpact the collections
we work with have onus as their custodians.
We are entangled in aweb that connects us
to our communities, theirbeliefs, hopes, and stories.
A group of religiousarchivists were
asked to reflect on how theirarchival thinking has been
(18:38):
shaped by the religiousand philosophical tenets
of the institutions they serve.
Joseph Cohen, an archivist withthe Archdiocese of Brooklyn,
had this answer--
"The religious and philosophicaltenets of the institution
I work for tend to reinforce myarchival thinking, rather than
causing me to reconsider it.
The importance and value of eachindividual and the importance
(18:58):
of stories of faith in thatparticular religious tradition
reinforces the importance ofpreserving the memory of how
the organization and itsmembers have lived out
and put that faith into practiceindividually and corporately.
It has reinforced the importanceof reaching out and to try
to incorporate the voices andstories of different races,
(19:19):
ethnic groups, peopleof different political
and theological orientations,socioeconomic classes,
et cetera."
And this is me, as Alex, saying,I feel like this answer deserves
an "amen."
FRED RASCOE (19:31):
Amen.
ALEX MCGEE (19:32):
Thank you.
File this set underAZ195, point or dot--
[LAUGHTER]
--D54123.
CHARLIE BENNET (19:43):
This is what happens when an archivist does
the amen break.
FRED RASCOE (19:46):
Amen.
[TOPS, "LOOKING TO REMEMBER"]
(SINGING) Hey, now,yeah, what you sayin'
And I wonder ifyou remember when
CHARLIE BENNET: Now, this set review (20:07):
undefined
is actually my responsibility.
But I'm abdicating thatresponsibility right now,
and I'm grabbing thisperson here in the studio.
Come on over here, Tyler.
TYLER ROGERS (20:16):
We just heard Faye Webster,
Atlanta's own FayeWebster and a large,
very big Atlanta Braves fan,who's just started their season
off, playing thesong "Remember When."
And before that, we heardMontreal's Tops playing "Looking
to Remember."
And these songs were aboutpreserving important memories.
(20:41):
[ROCK MUSIC]
This is a great show.
[LAUGHTER]
I love it.
CHARLIE BENNET (20:47):
That's so good.
ALEX MCGEE (20:48):
Y'all, OK, this is Lost in the Stacks in case you
forgot where we were,and our show today--
FRED RASCOE (20:54):
I kind of did, Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (20:55):
Yeah.
Let me just bring us all back.
I thought we were atWUOG for a second.
I don't know.
CHARLIE BENNET: Easy there, tiger. (21:01):
undefined
ALEX MCGEE (21:02):
Our show today is the first installment in a new
series called, "There'san Archivist for That?!"
CHARLIE BENNET (21:08):
We're speaking with Geoff Hetherington,
an archivist and recordsmanager for the Catholic
Archdiocese of Atlanta.
And I should point out, youjust heard a relative of Alex's.
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX MCGEE (21:19):
Full disclosure, yeah.
CHARLIE BENNET (21:24):
Geoff, we left off talking about Dan Brown,
and I'd like to clearthat completely out.
We are not going to talk aboutconspiracies, Fred, conspiracies
and things like that.
But we do want totalk about, why
are you needed in the church?
I think some peoplemight not really
imagine that an archivistor an office of archivists
(21:46):
is really importantfor the church.
Can you talk about how you'vediscovered that you absolutely
are essential?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (21:53):
Well, that's a decently easy question
to answer because it iscanonically required.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (22:02):
Wait a minute.
What does that mean?
ALEX MCGEE (22:04):
Yeah, I know.
He's throwing out big words now.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Canon law, which (22:06):
undefined
is like the law of thechurch, dictates that you've
got to have archives.
You've got to have--
CHARLIE BENNET (22:14):
How old is that?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (22:15):
The law?
CHARLIE BENNET (22:16):
Yeah, the canonical law.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Oh, as old as time. (22:17):
undefined
I don't know.
ALEX MCGEE (22:19):
Thousands of years.
CHARLIE BENNET (22:21):
I know it sounds like a goofy question,
but it's in the churchteachings from the beginning?
Or is this in the--
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: I think it has-- (22:26):
undefined
CHARLIE BENNET: --corporate structure? (22:27):
undefined
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --changed somewhat over time. (22:28):
undefined
I'm not a canonist.
But yeah, it's like the rulesand regs written into law,
and I imagine it's likethe Cardinals in Rome that
make the changes and decide.
(22:48):
But again, I don't know,but I do know that it is--
we're required to exist, so.
CHARLIE BENNET (22:54):
Because there's so much going on,
people have to trackwhat's happening.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (22:58):
Yes, but to the spirit of your question--
because, yes, thereare records that
document the patrimony ofthe church, the parishioners,
their sacraments.
All of that stuff is very,very permanent for the church.
(23:19):
And then aside from thechurchiness side of it,
there's just--
it's important fororganizations to have archives
of their goings-on intheir incorporation records
and things like that, so.
ALEX MCGEE (23:37):
Yeah, I think about how
we-- well, in my job asuniversity archivist,
I'm thinking aboutstudent organizations.
There's the big GeorgiaTech and those records
of their administrativeactivities.
But then there's thesmaller organizations
that kind of arethe fuller picture
(23:57):
of day-to-day life on campus.
And so I feel like some ofwhat you're catching too
reflects that as well.
Does that make sense?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (24:05):
Absolutely.
It's a subjectiveprofession ultimately.
Different peopleare going to have
different views onwhat is important
and what should be kept.
But I think thatmost people would
agree that the work thatis being done is important
and there should besome record of that.
CHARLIE BENNET (24:24):
Is there a part of your collections
that surprised you when youlearned that you kept it?
Because you obviously wereexperienced with archives,
so you weren't surprisedby the nature of the work.
But is there something aboutthe particular collection
that stuck out to you?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: That's a good question. (24:39):
undefined
There probably is.
Off the top of my head, Idon't really have anything.
I feel like every repositoryis full of fun surprises
that you don't know about.
So for one thing--
I don't know if this isexactly answers your question,
but there was a whole collectionon labor and this labor dispute
(25:03):
that the church kindof uncharacteristically
got involved in becauseit escalated to the point
where they just decided theycouldn't stay quiet about it
anymore.
And so I didn't really knowthat was in there and found it
and just thought it was so cool.
But that kind of thingis just-- you never
(25:25):
know what you're going to find.
ALEX MCGEE (25:26):
I know we've talked about--
there were publications, Iwant to say-- were they, quote,
unquote, "pro-life--" thatyou were talking about with
a women's archivist over atGeorgia State, Morna Gerrard.
You have that kind of stuff too.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Oh, absolutely. (25:43):
undefined
So there's the RespectLife Ministry--
ALEX MCGEE (25:45):
Right, there we go.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --which has changed. (25:47):
undefined
It used to be thePro-Life Office.
And we have a wholecollection on that ministry.
But that collection--there was a bunch of--
we collect records relatedto the Archdiocese of Atlanta
and the work that Atlantadoes, so that collection
(26:07):
had a bunch ofnational publications
that no one was everaccessing, we didn't need.
And so I have beentalking to Morna
about possibly doing a transferwhere it'll get more use.
ALEX MCGEE (26:20):
The women's collections at Georgia State,
even though it does havea pro-choice, I would say,
slant in some ways, they liketo document all points of view.
So that includes opposition.
CHARLIE BENNET (26:34):
I sense another show getting ready to happen.
ALEX MCGEE (26:37):
Who's to say?
But I also love, Geoff,the Atlanta Archdiocese
had a MargaretMitchell collection
for all the Atlanta lovers.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (26:48):
Yes.
We don't have that anymore.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (26:52):
Thanks for--
ALEX MCGEE (26:53):
They did.
CHARLIE BENNET: --bringing it up. (26:54):
undefined
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (26:54):
No, it was a fun conversation piece.
Basically, MargaretMitchell's nephew
was a parishionerof the cathedral,
and he died without heirsand so left all the stuff
to the Archdiocese.
And so we had a bunch ofinternational editions
of Gone with the Wind,Margaret Mitchell family stuff.
(27:17):
And it's really coolstuff, but we were not
the place that anyone would haveever thought to look for that--
ALEX MCGEE (27:23):
Out of scope.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --kind of thing. (27:23):
undefined
ALEX MCGEE (27:24):
That's what we say.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (27:25):
Exactly.
And so a lot of that is nowwith the Atlanta History Center
and then with the MargaretMitchell Museum in Marietta,
which I think ismore appropriate
and will be betterappreciated there.
MARLEE GIVENS (27:37):
I hate to end it there.
This is Lost in the Stacks,and our show today was called
"There's anArchivist for That?!"
ALEX MCGEE (27:43):
I love how everyone's
really committed to gettingthe question mark, exclamation
point.
Our guest today isGeoff Hetherington,
archivist and records analystfor the Catholic archdiocese
of Atlanta.
Thank you so much, Geoff,for being on our show.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (27:57):
Thank you very much for having me.
MARLEE GIVENS (27:59):
File this set under BT453.L66.
[WARPAINT, "ALTAR"]
(SINGING) Jesuswas a cross maker
Yes, Jesus was a cross maker
(28:21):
Oh, Jesus was a cross maker
Yes, Jesus was a cross maker
Oh, Jesus was a--
That was "Jesus Was a Cross Maker"
by Judee Sill.
And before that, we heard"Altar" by Warpaint,
songs about the intersection ofphysical labor with spiritual
(28:45):
pursuit.
CHARLIE BENNET (28:47):
Today's show was called "There's an Archivist
for That?!"
And we spoke with Geoff, who isan archivist for the Catholic
Church here in Atlanta.
Since this is a new seriesthat Alex is starting,
some trouble that she'sdecided to make, let's
end the show with a quicksurvey of everybody.
What kind of archivist would youlike to hear from in the future?
(29:08):
I want to start with you, Fred.
Who do you want to hear about?
FRED RASCOE (29:12):
I think anybody eccentric
that just collected abunch of random things,
like boxes of theirown toenail clippings.
ALEX MCGEE (29:19):
So a collector, really?
FRED RASCOE (29:20):
Yeah.
ALEX MCGEE (29:21):
A collector, not an archivist.
FRED RASCOE (29:23):
Somebody who's Howard Hughes-esque.
CHARLIE BENNET (29:26):
OK.
We're going to reject--
ALEX MCGEE (29:29):
Yeah, less excited about that one.
CHARLIE BENNET: --Fred's proposal. (29:30):
undefined
Marlee, how about you?
MARLEE GIVENS (29:33):
I hate to say this,
but can we hear from the currentarchivist of Hewlett-Packard?
I just feel like I wantto learn more about--
CHARLIE BENNET (29:39):
So corporate archives--
MARLEE GIVENS (29:40):
--Dave and Bill.
CHARLIE BENNET: --woule be awesome (29:41):
undefined
because you can have anynumber of surprise joys.
And we have-- there'senough corporations.
There's, like, five or six.
FRED RASCOE (29:50):
There's enough.
We don't need any more.
CHARLIE BENNET: Cody, how about you? (29:52):
undefined
You want to get up onthat mic over there?
CODY (29:55):
I can think of three.
I'd like to hear fromthe-- the city archivist
I think would be cool.
I'm sure there's a neighborhoodarchivist out there.
But I'd even settle forone of the buildings.
I'm sure they have an archivist,one of the old buildings
that we haven't torn down yet.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:08):
OK, that's pretty good, actually.
Alex, how about you?
ALEX MCGEE (30:12):
I'm going to set the bar really high for myself.
Many years ago on archivesTwitter, everyone-- or, well, I
call it Twitter, yeah.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:20):
Zitter.
ALEX MCGEE (30:21):
Yeah.
There was a lot of buzzabout a job posting
with Roc Nation forBeyoncé digital archivist.
CHARLIE BENNET: That's right, yeah. (30:27):
undefined
ALEX MCGEE (30:29):
So I'm going to really work hard on that,
I guess.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:32):
We have a little extra time,
so Tyler, why don't you comeup here and tell me what you
think before we get Geoff too?
TYLER (30:37):
Well, as this is a rock and roll radio show,
I think this is very wellwithin your wheelhouse
to get Dave Lemieux from theGrateful Dead to come by.
ALEX MCGEE (30:45):
Yes, they do have their own archivist.
TYLER (30:47):
Maybe over digital means to be on the show.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:51):
Tyler kind of stole mine
because I want to talkto Neil Young's archivist
because the Neil Young archivesis a big deal right now,
and I know there'ssomebody behind the facade.
Geoff, how about you?
Is there a place--
you're kind of our example ofan archivist from somewhere,
but what would youlike to hear about?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (31:10):
Well, it's funny you mention
that because I wasgoing to say I would
like to hear more from me.
I think I wouldlike to come back--
CHARLIE BENNET (31:15):
I love it.
[LAUGHTER]
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --and do some more. (31:16):
undefined
But I think these are allpretty fun suggestions.
Corporate, I like corporate.
That's what I--
FRED RASCOE (31:24):
I want to hear about the stuff
that you've collected, what youhave, what shoeboxes you got.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (31:27):
Like my personal collection?
Comic books, action figures.
CHARLIE BENNET (31:30):
Oh, there it is.
You're coming back.
ALEX MCGEE (31:33):
The collector.
CHARLIE BENNET (31:34):
Roll those credits, Fred,
and make sure it's notanything to do with Dan Brown.
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]
Oh, no.
[HIP HOP MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNET: Lost in the Stacks (31:46):
undefined
is a collaborationbetween WREK Atlanta
and the Georgia TechLibrary written and produced
by Alex McGee, CharlieBennett, Fred RASCOE:,
who throws puns ineverything, and Marlee Givens.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:57):
Legal counsel and a special blast shredder
were provided by the BurrusIntellectual Property Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
Special thanks toGeoff Hetherington
for speaking to us today,to all the archivists who do
work where you don't expectthem, and thanks, as always,
to each and every oneof you for listening.
CHARLIE BENNET (32:14):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
MARLEE GIVENS (32:25):
Next week, it's the first Friday of the month,
so we'll be visiting anothersite in the Georgia Tech Library
guidebook for morearchives talk.
CHARLIE BENNET (32:33):
Once they get in, you can't get them out.
FRED RASCOE (32:35):
It's time for our last song today,
and it's appropriately, for areligious-themed show, a song
about searching for meaning.
And if you find it in a textpreserved in an archive,
thank an archivist.
This is "Thank You" by AlanisMorissette right here on Lost
in the Stacks.
(32:55):
Have a great weekend, everybody.
Go in peace.
CHARLIE BENNET (32:58):
Man, Fred, you went all around the block
for that one.
[ALANIS MORISSETTE, "THANK YOU"]
(SINGING) How 'bout gettingoff of these antibiotics?
(33:21):
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]
(00:00):
- Christianity's most sacredcodices are in that archive.
Given your recententanglement with the church,
there is a question I'dlike to ask you first here
in the Office of His Holiness.
Do you believe in God, sir?
(00:21):
- Father, I simplybelieve that religion--
- I did not ask if you believewhat man says about God.
I asked if you believe in God.
- I'm an academic.
[END PLAYBACK]
[ROCK MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNET: You are listening (00:57):
undefined
to listening to WREKAtlanta, and this
is Lost in the Stacks,a religious-themed show.
No, it's not.
This is the research libraryrock'n'roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett inthe studio with a crowd.
Everybody's here.
I'm just going tosay Alex Marley
and Fred and Cody are here,and there's some other folks
that we'll talk to later.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
(01:19):
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
Whichever you tune infor, we hope you dig it.
ALEX MCGEE (01:25):
Our show today is called "There's an Archivist
for That?!"
We are launching anew occasional series
that highlights archivistsdoing work where you may not
expect to find them.
CHARLIE BENNET (01:33):
I like that you pronounced
the question mark anexclamation mark simultaneously.
ALEX MCGEE (01:37):
Had to get it.
I wrote it for areason like that.
FRED RASCOE (01:39):
That's hard to do.
CHARLIE BENNET: And I also noticed (01:40):
undefined
that even though we're aresearch library radio show,
we can't seem to getaway from the archivists
now that you're on board, Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (01:48):
What can I say?
FRED RASCOE (01:49):
There are archivists
doing work everywhere, Charlie.
And while I can tell youthat and you know it's true,
I have to admit thatour guest today is
working somewhere that wasn'treally top of mind for me.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:59):
Yeah, and considering
how long that organizationhas been around,
I don't think we shouldbe surprised that they
have an archivist or two.
ALEX MCGEE (02:07):
Seriously, guys.
Come on.
In fact, they have quitea lot all over the world,
but our guest today is anarchivist and records analyst
for Atlanta and a bit more.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:16):
You all are being very coy about what
this organization is.
Is it like a spy shop ora secret organization?
ALEX MCGEE (02:24):
Just wait for it, Charlie.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:25):
I will.
FRED RASCOE (02:26):
All right, so in keeping
with WREK's overallprogramming theme of the day,
honoring Women'sHistory Month, we're
playing all-femaleartists for our music.
And our specificepisode themes today
are about spiritualand physical labor,
preserving memories andrecords of human events
that may for somehave divine meaning.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:44):
I'm starting to think this is not the CIA.
FRED RASCOE (02:46):
You're getting some clues there, Charlie.
CHARLIE BENNET (02:47):
I am.
FRED RASCOE (02:48):
OK.
In any archive, onecan search for history.
In a religious archive, onemay find divine inspiration.
CHARLIE BENNET: Aha, I get it now. (02:54):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (02:56):
So let's start with "Buscando Inspiración,"
which means "searchingfor inspiration,"
by Eme Alfonso right hereon Lost in the Stacks.
[EME ALFONSO,"BUSCANDO INSPIRACIÓN"]
MARLEE GIVENS (03:17):
That was "Buscando Inspiration"
by Eme Alfonso.
This is Lost in the Stacks,and our show today is called
"There's anArchivist for That?!"
ALEX MCGEE (03:27):
Well done.
MARLEE GIVENS (03:28):
It's the first in a new series that's
all about meetingarchivists in places
you may not expect to findthem or, I guess in this case,
maybe overlook.
ALEX MCGEE (03:37):
That's probably fair.
Today, we are talkingto Geoff Hetherington,
archivist and records analystfor-- drum roll, please.
We've built it up so much--
the CatholicArchdiocese of Atlanta.
CHARLIE BENNET: It is a spy shop. (03:48):
undefined
[LAUGHTER]
That joke was so that you couldslide the mic over to Geoff.
There you go.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (03:56):
Hello.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (03:58):
Welcome to the show, Geoff.
Thanks for coming.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (04:00):
Thank you.
CHARLIE BENNET (04:02):
I guess we should talk very much
about what the archivistswork is that you do now,
but it's always importantto find out, how
did you get into this business?
How did you cometo be an archivist?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (04:14):
Sure.
Very carefully, so I didundergrad at Oglethorpe
University, history major,like a lot of history majors,
did not work in thefield of history,
just worked at a corporategig and then decided
I should do somethingmore that I enjoy.
(04:34):
And so I volunteered in thearchives at the Atlanta History
Center just to get a senseof what archives are like,
and I found that I was enjoyingdoing that on my Saturdays
more than what I wasgetting paid to do.
CHARLIE BENNET (04:50):
A story as old as time.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (04:52):
Right.
So I enrolled at GeorgiaState University's Heritage
Preservation Program--
ALEX MCGEE (05:00):
Go, Panthers!
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --yeah, where I met Alex. (05:01):
undefined
And I didn't know--
I wasn't thinking,oh, I'm definitely
going to be an archivist.
But I knew thatI liked archives.
I liked museums.
I liked historic preservation.
And that program kind of hada little bit of everything,
and so that's whatreally drew me to it.
So I graduated from that,and while I was there,
(05:22):
I had an internship atthe Georgia Power Company
in the archives.
And so archivesjust kind of kept
being part of mytraining and my studies,
so that's ultimately what I washired to do after grad school,
so.
ALEX MCGEE (05:38):
And you were initially--
correct me, but you wereworking with corporate archives
when you got out of grad school?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (05:46):
Yes.
So Georgia Power, myinternship-- that was corporate
archives.
And then I worked in corporatearchives for a few years
before coming tothe Archdiocese.
And the Archdioceseis kind of unique--
and we can get to that--but it in many ways
is very much like acorporate archive.
ALEX MCGEE (06:06):
Yeah.
You worked with collectionsfor some notable corporations
that people wouldrecognize, too, though,
so I'm curious howthat prepared you.
What are some ofthose companies?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: So some of the work (06:17):
undefined
I did was for NestleUSA and Hewlett-Packard.
And those are superinteresting collections.
I loved working with them.
It's the type ofthing where I never
knew that I needed to know thehistory of Hewlett-Packard.
But once I knew it, Iwas fascinated by it,
and I loved it.
CHARLIE BENNET (06:37):
You mean on a personal level.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (06:38):
Yeah.
I love becoming-- one of thethings I love about this work is
that I become subject matterexpert or at least subject
matter somewhat-expert on--
CHARLIE BENNET (06:46):
Aficionado.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --yes, on a bunch (06:47):
undefined
of things that I never expectedto know anything about.
ALEX MCGEE (06:53):
I remember getting texts
where it was like theJell-O mold recipes
that Nestlé was pushing fortheir various food products.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (07:00):
Yeah, a lot of really fun old cookbooks
with some verydated recipes that--
CHARLIE BENNET (07:08):
So is it just the fact that they are archives
and they are older informationand detailed information, that's
what appeals to you?
Or was it aboutcorporate matters?
What was the thing that--
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Yeah, I wouldn't (07:20):
undefined
say I'm particularly interestedin corporations as a subject,
but I think that thecollections provide
a context of that businessin a larger context.
Allow myself tointroduce myself.
CHARLIE BENNET (07:38):
Yeah, go for it, yeah.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (07:40):
So Hewlett-Packard, for example,
was very interesting becauseDave Packard served in the Nixon
administration, andso a lot of the papers
were kind of about that andhow the business expanded
internationally anddealing with China.
And it's just super interesting.
So there's a historyof the company
(08:02):
but also a historyof the United States,
of corporations in general, ofthe world contextually peppered
throughout.
CHARLIE BENNET (08:10):
And so I'm going to try and make
a connection between what you donow and the corporate archives.
It seems like youenjoy finding out
small details aboutsomething that
is big enough to just kind of bethe background of the culture.
So I know what Hewlett-Packardis, but that's about it.
I didn't know theguy's name was Dave.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (08:30):
Bill and Dave, Bill Hewitt
and Dave Packard.
CHARLIE BENNET (08:33):
I find that I like them so much more now.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (08:35):
Yeah.
And they were knownas Bill and Dave.
That was their [INAUDIBLE]--
ALEX MCGEE (08:40):
Very approachable names.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --the employees, yep. (08:41):
undefined
CHARLIE BENNET (08:42):
That's great.
We're almost at theend of the segment.
So obviously we'regoing to talk a lot more
about your currentjob, but can you
tell us very quickly howyou jumped from corporate
to religious archives?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (08:54):
Yeah, sure.
I needed a job, andthey were hiring.
And they hired me.
CHARLIE BENNET (09:00):
That's the best story ever.
[LAUGHTER]
MARLEE GIVENS (09:04):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and we'll be back with more withour guest, Geoff Hetherington,
after a music set.
File this set underCS432.C36, no dot, G72.
CHARLIE BENNET (09:18):
Always no dot.
[ALVVAYS, "ARCHIE, MARRY ME"]
[JAPANESE BREAKFAST, "TILLDEATH"]
ALEX MCGEE (09:38):
That was "Till Death"
by Japanese Breakfast andbefore that "Archie, Marry Me"
by Alvvays, songs about officialrecords of events with divine
meaning.
[ROCK MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNET (09:51):
This is Lost in the Stacks,
and today's show is called--
OK, let me get this right--
"There's anArchivist for That?!"
FRED RASCOE (09:58):
Yeah, you did it.
CHARLIE BENNET (09:59):
Thank you, Alex, I appreciate it.
MARLEE GIVENS (10:00):
And we're talking with Geoff Hetherington,
archivist and recordsanalyst for the Catholic
Archdiocese of Atlanta.
And I kind of want to stopon the word "archdiocese,"
and can you briefly explain forour audience what an archdiocese
is?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (10:16):
I can try.
So a diocese is just a kind ofgeographical and administrative
boundary within the hierarchyof the Catholic Church.
And so an archdiocese is abigger version of a diocese.
(10:37):
So every diocese has abishop, at least one, and then
an archdiocesehas an archbishop.
And there may be otherbishops, but the "arch"
gives it that one extrastep up the hierarchy.
But yeah, basicallyit's the area
that administrates a bunch ofparishes, schools, missions,
(10:58):
ministries, et cetera.
CHARLIE BENNET (11:00):
I'm afraid I have to ask one more
stupid question.
Do bishops run things?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (11:05):
Yes.
They are kind of, for lack ofa better analogy, like a CEO.
They're the--
CHARLIE BENNET (11:12):
There you go.
That's what I need.
That's the context needed.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --administrative head (11:13):
undefined
of the organization.
CHARLIE BENNET (11:16):
And this brings us back to corporate archives.
So what are the archives?
What do you work with?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Lots of stuff. (11:25):
undefined
So I would sayprobably primarily it
is the records of theday-to-day business
and work of the organization.
So we have-- the centraloffice is called the Chancery,
and there's theOffice of Finance.
(11:46):
So things like financialrecords, annual reports,
stuff like that comes down.
And we have an HR office.
We have anything thatany company would have.
But then also, because it'sthe church, there's ministries.
So there's things likeJustice and Peace Ministries.
There's all sorts of different--the work of the church,
(12:09):
and so those recordscome to us as well.
And then also, there are over100 parishes and missions
within the Archdiocese,so records from them come.
And so that's wherewe become sort of
like a community archive.
So we have records relatedto different churches.
(12:31):
So parish is another sortof geographical boundary
where a church is andso the church records,
things like sacramental records,your baptisms, your marriages.
And then we'll havephotographs of events.
When a new church isbuilt, they do a blessing.
So there will be a program aboutthe blessing of the church,
(12:53):
that kind of thing.
CHARLIE BENNET (12:54):
Were you raised Catholic?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (12:56):
No.
CHARLIE BENNET (12:56):
You didn't know what you were getting
into when you entered this job?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (12:59):
No.
CHARLIE BENNET: What was that like (13:00):
undefined
to learn about the churchfrom its business side?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Very interesting. (13:06):
undefined
I think, similar to what wewere talking about before,
it's a thing I didn'tknow I needed to know.
And now I know it, and Ican't imagine not knowing it.
[LAUGHTER]
It's a fascinating place,lots of different people.
The diversity in theArchdiocese of Atlanta is wild,
(13:29):
and so it's not one--
I think the thingthat I didn't realize
was that, the churchbeing so hierarchical,
I expected a sortof monolithic group,
and it couldn't befurther from the truth.
There's tons of differentcommunities and ways
(13:51):
of celebrating their faith,and it's just really--
it's cool to see.
It's really interesting stuff.
CHARLIE BENNET (13:57):
Do you see--
how many archivists are there?
Are you the onewho sees everything
that's going to be saved?
Or what happens?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: More or less. (14:03):
undefined
So it's the Office ofArchives and Records,
and so we also dorecords management.
And there's three of us in theoffice, the director, Angelique
Richardson, and then me, thearchivist and records analyst.
And then we have a recordsmanager and assistant archivist,
and that's Megan Udell.
CHARLIE BENNET (14:17):
Are there any weird rituals when
you have to shred something?
Do you have to doanything extra?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Not with shredding. (14:21):
undefined
We approve shredding,and so there's
that, the ritual ofjust signing paper.
But we don't-- disposingof certain things that are
blessed--
CHARLIE BENNET (14:34):
This is so what I'm looking for.
[LAUGHTER]
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Certain things (14:37):
undefined
have to be burned or buried.
CHARLIE BENNET (14:40):
Wow.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: And if it's buried, (14:41):
undefined
it has to be on, I believe,consecrated ground.
FRED RASCOE (14:45):
Charlie, are you looking for the plot
of the next Dan Brown novel?
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (14:49):
I am not, Fred, and I'm
going to leave the stationnow that you've said that.
No, I love the--
I love looking atthe extra things that
are added when you get into ararefied kind of organization.
And then religiousorganizations have
even more of that extra oomph.
(15:10):
And I also find itvery interesting
that you walked in as auninitiate to the larger system,
but then now you're into it.
What was I going to saybefore Fred completely
knocked me off my--
I don't know.
Do you have a question,Fred, since I'm just
thinking about Dan Brown now?
FRED RASCOE (15:31):
Oh, I think that's an area that we need to explore.
OK, but let's get back to--let's get back to Geoff.
What sort of researchquestions come in?
You've got recordsthat-- who was married
when, who was baptized when,when was a church built.
What kind of researchneeds access to that?
(15:53):
What kind of questions arethey looking to answer?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (15:55):
Sure.
So you touched onthe sacraments.
So we only havesacramental records
that are of a certain age.
The rest of them, whatwe would consider active,
where the people withinthe records are living,
would be at the parish and notopen for genealogy research.
But we have someof the older ones
(16:17):
that are open, so we do getgenealogy requests for those.
But we also have--
we have some studentrecords for Catholic schools
that have closed.
And so if a school closed,we take the records,
and then so we will gettranscript requests, which isn't
really a research request.
(16:38):
It's a kind of activeneed of an organization.
But we do get that.
We get a lot of requests from--
say a parish ishaving an anniversary
and they want whateverinformation, maybe photographs,
history, the listof priests that
have worked there over time.
So we provide that kindof thing a lot as well.
FRED RASCOE (16:58):
Do you ever find anything juicy,
kind outside ofofficial context?
Maybe somebody wrotesomething in the margins.
CHARLIE BENNET (17:05):
Careful, Fred.
[LAUGHTER]
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Honestly, no. (17:07):
undefined
Most everything comesfrom official channels,
and so it's all pretty official.
It's pretty "run of the mill."
But there might besome correspondence,
like some parishioner hadsome issue with something that
went down at the churchthey didn't like,
and so there's stuff like that.
CHARLIE BENNET (17:28):
Fred was projecting about that Dan Brown
thing.
FRED RASCOE (17:30):
Yeah, I'm going to find that Dan Brown plot
point somewhere.
[LAUGHTER]
MARLEE GIVENS: Hold that thought. (17:35):
undefined
You are listening toLost in the Stacks,
and we will hear more from Geoffon the left side of the hour.
[ROCK MUSIC]
[SURF ROCK]
CLIFF LANDIS (17:52):
Hi, this is Cliff Landis, digital curation
archivist at the GeorgiaTech Library and Archives,
and you are listening to Lost inthe Stacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show--
that's a lot harderto roll off the tongue
than I would have thought--
(18:12):
WREK Atlanta.
ALEX MCGEE (18:16):
Today's show is called "There's an Archivist
for That?"
And speaking withour guest, it is
important to consider theimpact the collections
we work with have onus as their custodians.
We are entangled in aweb that connects us
to our communities, theirbeliefs, hopes, and stories.
A group of religiousarchivists were
asked to reflect on how theirarchival thinking has been
(18:38):
shaped by the religiousand philosophical tenets
of the institutions they serve.
Joseph Cohen, an archivist withthe Archdiocese of Brooklyn,
had this answer--
"The religious and philosophicaltenets of the institution
I work for tend to reinforce myarchival thinking, rather than
causing me to reconsider it.
The importance and value of eachindividual and the importance
(18:58):
of stories of faith in thatparticular religious tradition
reinforces the importance ofpreserving the memory of how
the organization and itsmembers have lived out
and put that faith into practiceindividually and corporately.
It has reinforced the importanceof reaching out and to try
to incorporate the voices andstories of different races,
(19:19):
ethnic groups, peopleof different political
and theological orientations,socioeconomic classes,
et cetera."
And this is me, as Alex, saying,I feel like this answer deserves
an "amen."
FRED RASCOE (19:31):
Amen.
ALEX MCGEE (19:32):
Thank you.
File this set underAZ195, point or dot--
[LAUGHTER]
--D54123.
CHARLIE BENNET (19:43):
This is what happens when an archivist does
the amen break.
FRED RASCOE (19:46):
Amen.
[TOPS, "LOOKING TO REMEMBER"]
(SINGING) Hey, now,yeah, what you sayin'
And I wonder ifyou remember when
CHARLIE BENNET: Now, this set review (20:07):
undefined
is actually my responsibility.
But I'm abdicating thatresponsibility right now,
and I'm grabbing thisperson here in the studio.
Come on over here, Tyler.
TYLER ROGERS (20:16):
We just heard Faye Webster,
Atlanta's own FayeWebster and a large,
very big Atlanta Braves fan,who's just started their season
off, playing thesong "Remember When."
And before that, we heardMontreal's Tops playing "Looking
to Remember."
And these songs were aboutpreserving important memories.
(20:41):
[ROCK MUSIC]
This is a great show.
[LAUGHTER]
I love it.
CHARLIE BENNET (20:47):
That's so good.
ALEX MCGEE (20:48):
Y'all, OK, this is Lost in the Stacks in case you
forgot where we were,and our show today--
FRED RASCOE (20:54):
I kind of did, Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (20:55):
Yeah.
Let me just bring us all back.
I thought we were atWUOG for a second.
I don't know.
CHARLIE BENNET: Easy there, tiger. (21:01):
undefined
ALEX MCGEE (21:02):
Our show today is the first installment in a new
series called, "There'san Archivist for That?!"
CHARLIE BENNET (21:08):
We're speaking with Geoff Hetherington,
an archivist and recordsmanager for the Catholic
Archdiocese of Atlanta.
And I should point out, youjust heard a relative of Alex's.
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX MCGEE (21:19):
Full disclosure, yeah.
CHARLIE BENNET (21:24):
Geoff, we left off talking about Dan Brown,
and I'd like to clearthat completely out.
We are not going to talk aboutconspiracies, Fred, conspiracies
and things like that.
But we do want totalk about, why
are you needed in the church?
I think some peoplemight not really
imagine that an archivistor an office of archivists
(21:46):
is really importantfor the church.
Can you talk about how you'vediscovered that you absolutely
are essential?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (21:53):
Well, that's a decently easy question
to answer because it iscanonically required.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (22:02):
Wait a minute.
What does that mean?
ALEX MCGEE (22:04):
Yeah, I know.
He's throwing out big words now.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Canon law, which (22:06):
undefined
is like the law of thechurch, dictates that you've
got to have archives.
You've got to have--
CHARLIE BENNET (22:14):
How old is that?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (22:15):
The law?
CHARLIE BENNET (22:16):
Yeah, the canonical law.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Oh, as old as time. (22:17):
undefined
I don't know.
ALEX MCGEE (22:19):
Thousands of years.
CHARLIE BENNET (22:21):
I know it sounds like a goofy question,
but it's in the churchteachings from the beginning?
Or is this in the--
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: I think it has-- (22:26):
undefined
CHARLIE BENNET: --corporate structure? (22:27):
undefined
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --changed somewhat over time. (22:28):
undefined
I'm not a canonist.
But yeah, it's like the rulesand regs written into law,
and I imagine it's likethe Cardinals in Rome that
make the changes and decide.
(22:48):
But again, I don't know,but I do know that it is--
we're required to exist, so.
CHARLIE BENNET (22:54):
Because there's so much going on,
people have to trackwhat's happening.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (22:58):
Yes, but to the spirit of your question--
because, yes, thereare records that
document the patrimony ofthe church, the parishioners,
their sacraments.
All of that stuff is very,very permanent for the church.
(23:19):
And then aside from thechurchiness side of it,
there's just--
it's important fororganizations to have archives
of their goings-on intheir incorporation records
and things like that, so.
ALEX MCGEE (23:37):
Yeah, I think about how
we-- well, in my job asuniversity archivist,
I'm thinking aboutstudent organizations.
There's the big GeorgiaTech and those records
of their administrativeactivities.
But then there's thesmaller organizations
that kind of arethe fuller picture
(23:57):
of day-to-day life on campus.
And so I feel like some ofwhat you're catching too
reflects that as well.
Does that make sense?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (24:05):
Absolutely.
It's a subjectiveprofession ultimately.
Different peopleare going to have
different views onwhat is important
and what should be kept.
But I think thatmost people would
agree that the work thatis being done is important
and there should besome record of that.
CHARLIE BENNET (24:24):
Is there a part of your collections
that surprised you when youlearned that you kept it?
Because you obviously wereexperienced with archives,
so you weren't surprisedby the nature of the work.
But is there something aboutthe particular collection
that stuck out to you?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: That's a good question. (24:39):
undefined
There probably is.
Off the top of my head, Idon't really have anything.
I feel like every repositoryis full of fun surprises
that you don't know about.
So for one thing--
I don't know if this isexactly answers your question,
but there was a whole collectionon labor and this labor dispute
(25:03):
that the church kindof uncharacteristically
got involved in becauseit escalated to the point
where they just decided theycouldn't stay quiet about it
anymore.
And so I didn't really knowthat was in there and found it
and just thought it was so cool.
But that kind of thingis just-- you never
(25:25):
know what you're going to find.
ALEX MCGEE (25:26):
I know we've talked about--
there were publications, Iwant to say-- were they, quote,
unquote, "pro-life--" thatyou were talking about with
a women's archivist over atGeorgia State, Morna Gerrard.
You have that kind of stuff too.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: Oh, absolutely. (25:43):
undefined
So there's the RespectLife Ministry--
ALEX MCGEE (25:45):
Right, there we go.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --which has changed. (25:47):
undefined
It used to be thePro-Life Office.
And we have a wholecollection on that ministry.
But that collection--there was a bunch of--
we collect records relatedto the Archdiocese of Atlanta
and the work that Atlantadoes, so that collection
(26:07):
had a bunch ofnational publications
that no one was everaccessing, we didn't need.
And so I have beentalking to Morna
about possibly doing a transferwhere it'll get more use.
ALEX MCGEE (26:20):
The women's collections at Georgia State,
even though it does havea pro-choice, I would say,
slant in some ways, they liketo document all points of view.
So that includes opposition.
CHARLIE BENNET (26:34):
I sense another show getting ready to happen.
ALEX MCGEE (26:37):
Who's to say?
But I also love, Geoff,the Atlanta Archdiocese
had a MargaretMitchell collection
for all the Atlanta lovers.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (26:48):
Yes.
We don't have that anymore.
[LAUGHTER]
CHARLIE BENNET (26:52):
Thanks for--
ALEX MCGEE (26:53):
They did.
CHARLIE BENNET: --bringing it up. (26:54):
undefined
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (26:54):
No, it was a fun conversation piece.
Basically, MargaretMitchell's nephew
was a parishionerof the cathedral,
and he died without heirsand so left all the stuff
to the Archdiocese.
And so we had a bunch ofinternational editions
of Gone with the Wind,Margaret Mitchell family stuff.
(27:17):
And it's really coolstuff, but we were not
the place that anyone would haveever thought to look for that--
ALEX MCGEE (27:23):
Out of scope.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --kind of thing. (27:23):
undefined
ALEX MCGEE (27:24):
That's what we say.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (27:25):
Exactly.
And so a lot of that is nowwith the Atlanta History Center
and then with the MargaretMitchell Museum in Marietta,
which I think ismore appropriate
and will be betterappreciated there.
MARLEE GIVENS (27:37):
I hate to end it there.
This is Lost in the Stacks,and our show today was called
"There's anArchivist for That?!"
ALEX MCGEE (27:43):
I love how everyone's
really committed to gettingthe question mark, exclamation
point.
Our guest today isGeoff Hetherington,
archivist and records analystfor the Catholic archdiocese
of Atlanta.
Thank you so much, Geoff,for being on our show.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (27:57):
Thank you very much for having me.
MARLEE GIVENS (27:59):
File this set under BT453.L66.
[WARPAINT, "ALTAR"]
(SINGING) Jesuswas a cross maker
Yes, Jesus was a cross maker
(28:21):
Oh, Jesus was a cross maker
Yes, Jesus was a cross maker
Oh, Jesus was a--
That was "Jesus Was a Cross Maker"
by Judee Sill.
And before that, we heard"Altar" by Warpaint,
songs about the intersection ofphysical labor with spiritual
(28:45):
pursuit.
CHARLIE BENNET (28:47):
Today's show was called "There's an Archivist
for That?!"
And we spoke with Geoff, who isan archivist for the Catholic
Church here in Atlanta.
Since this is a new seriesthat Alex is starting,
some trouble that she'sdecided to make, let's
end the show with a quicksurvey of everybody.
What kind of archivist would youlike to hear from in the future?
(29:08):
I want to start with you, Fred.
Who do you want to hear about?
FRED RASCOE (29:12):
I think anybody eccentric
that just collected abunch of random things,
like boxes of theirown toenail clippings.
ALEX MCGEE (29:19):
So a collector, really?
FRED RASCOE (29:20):
Yeah.
ALEX MCGEE (29:21):
A collector, not an archivist.
FRED RASCOE (29:23):
Somebody who's Howard Hughes-esque.
CHARLIE BENNET (29:26):
OK.
We're going to reject--
ALEX MCGEE (29:29):
Yeah, less excited about that one.
CHARLIE BENNET: --Fred's proposal. (29:30):
undefined
Marlee, how about you?
MARLEE GIVENS (29:33):
I hate to say this,
but can we hear from the currentarchivist of Hewlett-Packard?
I just feel like I wantto learn more about--
CHARLIE BENNET (29:39):
So corporate archives--
MARLEE GIVENS (29:40):
--Dave and Bill.
CHARLIE BENNET: --woule be awesome (29:41):
undefined
because you can have anynumber of surprise joys.
And we have-- there'senough corporations.
There's, like, five or six.
FRED RASCOE (29:50):
There's enough.
We don't need any more.
CHARLIE BENNET: Cody, how about you? (29:52):
undefined
You want to get up onthat mic over there?
CODY (29:55):
I can think of three.
I'd like to hear fromthe-- the city archivist
I think would be cool.
I'm sure there's a neighborhoodarchivist out there.
But I'd even settle forone of the buildings.
I'm sure they have an archivist,one of the old buildings
that we haven't torn down yet.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:08):
OK, that's pretty good, actually.
Alex, how about you?
ALEX MCGEE (30:12):
I'm going to set the bar really high for myself.
Many years ago on archivesTwitter, everyone-- or, well, I
call it Twitter, yeah.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:20):
Zitter.
ALEX MCGEE (30:21):
Yeah.
There was a lot of buzzabout a job posting
with Roc Nation forBeyoncé digital archivist.
CHARLIE BENNET: That's right, yeah. (30:27):
undefined
ALEX MCGEE (30:29):
So I'm going to really work hard on that,
I guess.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:32):
We have a little extra time,
so Tyler, why don't you comeup here and tell me what you
think before we get Geoff too?
TYLER (30:37):
Well, as this is a rock and roll radio show,
I think this is very wellwithin your wheelhouse
to get Dave Lemieux from theGrateful Dead to come by.
ALEX MCGEE (30:45):
Yes, they do have their own archivist.
TYLER (30:47):
Maybe over digital means to be on the show.
CHARLIE BENNET (30:51):
Tyler kind of stole mine
because I want to talkto Neil Young's archivist
because the Neil Young archivesis a big deal right now,
and I know there'ssomebody behind the facade.
Geoff, how about you?
Is there a place--
you're kind of our example ofan archivist from somewhere,
but what would youlike to hear about?
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (31:10):
Well, it's funny you mention
that because I wasgoing to say I would
like to hear more from me.
I think I wouldlike to come back--
CHARLIE BENNET (31:15):
I love it.
[LAUGHTER]
GEOFF HETHERINGTON: --and do some more. (31:16):
undefined
But I think these are allpretty fun suggestions.
Corporate, I like corporate.
That's what I--
FRED RASCOE (31:24):
I want to hear about the stuff
that you've collected, what youhave, what shoeboxes you got.
GEOFF HETHERINGTON (31:27):
Like my personal collection?
Comic books, action figures.
CHARLIE BENNET (31:30):
Oh, there it is.
You're coming back.
ALEX MCGEE (31:33):
The collector.
CHARLIE BENNET (31:34):
Roll those credits, Fred,
and make sure it's notanything to do with Dan Brown.
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]
Oh, no.
[HIP HOP MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNET: Lost in the Stacks (31:46):
undefined
is a collaborationbetween WREK Atlanta
and the Georgia TechLibrary written and produced
by Alex McGee, CharlieBennett, Fred RASCOE:,
who throws puns ineverything, and Marlee Givens.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:57):
Legal counsel and a special blast shredder
were provided by the BurrusIntellectual Property Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
Special thanks toGeoff Hetherington
for speaking to us today,to all the archivists who do
work where you don't expectthem, and thanks, as always,
to each and every oneof you for listening.
CHARLIE BENNET (32:14):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
MARLEE GIVENS (32:25):
Next week, it's the first Friday of the month,
so we'll be visiting anothersite in the Georgia Tech Library
guidebook for morearchives talk.
CHARLIE BENNET (32:33):
Once they get in, you can't get them out.
FRED RASCOE (32:35):
It's time for our last song today,
and it's appropriately, for areligious-themed show, a song
about searching for meaning.
And if you find it in a textpreserved in an archive,
thank an archivist.
This is "Thank You" by AlanisMorissette right here on Lost
in the Stacks.
(32:55):
Have a great weekend, everybody.
Go in peace.
CHARLIE BENNET (32:58):
Man, Fred, you went all around the block
for that one.
[ALANIS MORISSETTE, "THANK YOU"]
(SINGING) How 'bout gettingoff of these antibiotics?
(33:21):
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