May 23, 2025 • 57 mins
First broadcast May 23 2025. Transcript at https://hdl.handle.net/1853/77624
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
(00:00):
[Clip from Hustle and Flow]
Key (00:00):
Let me tell you what I learned while working on my job.
Deejay (00:03):
Thank you.
Key (00:04):
There are two types of people.
Those that talk the talk andthose that walk the walk.
People who walk the walk,they sometimes talk the talk.
But most of thetime, they don't talk
at all 'cause they're walking.
Now, people who talk the talk,when it comes time for them
to walk, you want toknow what they do?
(00:24):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:46):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in theStacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett in thestudio with Fred Rascoe, Cody
Turner, and Alex McGee.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
Whichever you're herefor, we hope you dig it.
ALEX MCGEE (01:07):
Our show today is called Talk The Talk,
Walk The Walk.
It's a panel show,so you're going
to hear our thoughts ona couple of subjects.
Our opinions are,of course, our own
and do not necessarilyreflect the beliefs and values
of WREK or Georgia Tech.
CHARLIE BENNETT: What does-- wait, (01:22):
undefined
did you just do a disclaimer?
FRED RASCOE (01:26):
I don't think we've ever done one of those before.
ALEX MCGEE (01:29):
Yikes.
Well, let me rip off theBand-Aid from this boo-boo right
away.
The phrase diversity, equity,and inclusion, otherwise
known as DEI--
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:39):
Oh, OK.
ALEX MCGEE (01:40):
Has become a flashpoint
in the current culture war,especially in higher education.
Today, we're talking aboutcultural competencies, which
are an essential part ofadvancing DEIA, otherwise known
as diversity, equity, inclusion,and accessibility, in libraries
and archives.
FRED RASCOE (01:55):
And since anything related to a DEI or DEIA,
anything like that seemsto raise hackles and stick
in craws, we need a disclaimer.
This is just us talking,the three of us.
So let's not justdo a disclaimer.
Let's also say, promotingor attacking DEI and DEIA
(02:16):
as a monolithic, simpleconcept will get us nowhere.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:20):
OK, I'm down for both of those things.
ALEX MCGEE (02:22):
So today we're talking
about cultural competencies.
What are they?
Why are they?
What do we think of them?
And are they inarchival job postings?
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:31):
One of those questions
might sound like it'sdifferent from the others,
but here's the deal.
To seed our conversation,we're using an article titled
"Recruiting ForCultural Competency,
A Content Analysis OfArchives Job Postings,"
written by Helen Wong Smith,Don Schmitz, and Cindy Shein,
with Lisa Schmitz, published inThe American Archivist in 2024.
FRED RASCOE (02:53):
And our songs today are about rolling with new ways
that you may not be used to,employment and connecting
outside your cultural circleand being honest with yourself
and others.
One of the key findingsin that article,
"Cultural CompetenciesIn Job Postings,"
were disproportionate tothe professional emphasis
on cultural competency.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:13):
What a diplomatic way to say it, Fred.
FRED RASCOE (03:16):
If you talk the talk but don't walk the walk,
problems arise.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:19):
There it is.
FRED RASCOE (03:20):
So let's start with "When Problems Arise"
by Fishbone, right hereon Lost in the Stacks.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
That was "When ProblemsArise" by fishbone.
Our show today is calledTalk The Talk, Walk The Walk.
(03:40):
We are discussingcultural competencies
sparked by an articlethat Alex brought to us.
ALEX MCGEE (03:47):
That's right.
It's "Recruiting ForCultural Competency,
A Content Analysis OfArchives Job Postings"
written by Helen WongSmith, Don Schmitz,
and Cindy Shein with LisaSchmitz and published
in The AmericanArchivist in 2024.
CHARLIE BENNETT: And so let's start (04:03):
undefined
with a conversational sparkthat's right there in the title.
Cultural competency.
What is that?
ALEX MCGEE (04:11):
So as the good pupil that I am, I have summarized.
Well, they distill a lotof different definitions
and end up with onethat they are using.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:22):
I was so worried you
were about to startwith an undergrad paper.
Webster's definescultural competency.
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX MCGEE (04:29):
Well, I'm going to let them.
They've settled on a nicedefinition that I want to read.
Cultural competencyis the capacity
to continuallyimprove one's ability
to function with self-awareness,open mindedness, humility,
respect, knowledge,and interpersonal skill
when engaging with people fromall backgrounds and experiences.
(04:50):
It requires an awarenessand understanding
of the significanceof culture, beginning
with one's own,and an orientation
of respectful curiositytoward the beliefs, values,
and practices of others.
Key components arethe recognition
of the structural,socioeconomic,
and political factorsthat adversely
affect diverse populations,and the commitment
(05:10):
to respond with policies orpractices that recognize,
affirm, and protect the dignityof individuals, families,
and communities.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:19):
Can I try and say that back to you?
ALEX MCGEE (05:21):
Sure.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Cultural competency (05:21):
undefined
is not assuming that you arethe default. I mean, that's
what I try and tell my kids.
ALEX MCGEE (05:28):
Yeah.
I think the things that stuckout to me that I underlined
are continually improve.
This idea that this is nota fixed function for us.
It is iterative work thatwe are always working on.
And I really liked therespectful curiosity.
I think that'ssomething that when
(05:48):
I think about talking to my sonabout other cultures, other,
people this idea that we can askquestions, but it's grounding it
and respectfulness.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:58):
And it's not about a particular store
of knowledge.
It's about a way of being.
Being able to imagine that youare going to learn something,
to learn it, andthen to apply it.
ALEX MCGEE (06:13):
Yeah.
And I think theother thing I really
like about this definitionis I feel like people that
are defensive about DEIand DEIA, often it's part--
or they're feeling lessthan because they're not
doing this work.
And I think thething that I really
like is this idea that it's openmindedness, it's respectfulness.
Those are, I think, goodconcepts for all of us
(06:36):
as human beings to engage in.
And so I think that I like thepositiveness of this definition.
Because it's thinking aboutwe all grow as human beings.
That's how I view this work,especially in archives.
FRED RASCOE (06:51):
It seems like a really non-controversial idea
if you just talk about itin terms of its definition.
You respect other people.
You acknowledgewhat others believe
and where they're coming from.
ALEX MCGEE (07:04):
It's not saying one is right or wrong either.
It's just sayingthat my point of view
is not the only point of view.
And that's OK.
FRED RASCOE (07:12):
And everyone should adopt that life,
since we're talking aboutwalking the walk, right?
CHARLIE BENNETT: I mean, that would (07:17):
undefined
be a position onecould take, if one were
going to do a call to action.
[LAUGHTER]
Not that we would do that.
ALEX MCGEE (07:28):
Definitely not.
FRED RASCOE (07:29):
There's parallels in probably a lot
of religious traditions.
The one that I certainly comefrom, there's that golden rule.
ALEX MCGEE (07:38):
The golden rule.
Exactly.
FRED RASCOE (07:39):
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
So it sometimes stymies mea little bit, dumbfounded.
It is to incorporate things likecultural competency into a job.
I understand why it is,but that doesn't stop me
from being dumbfoundeda little bit by it.
ALEX MCGEE (07:59):
Well, and I want to think
that some of these baselinethings of being respectful
to our colleagues and to others,that shouldn't be new for us.
But putting it inthis framework,
suddenly it is controversial.
CHARLIE BENNETT (08:18):
So this conversation
is a race that I just lost,because you two presented
these ideas, but I'm thethird person to talk,
so I have to do thisslightly against what
you're saying stuff.
I have to do a counterpoint,which I can't really do.
But I can say that thetrouble we run into
is not with the definitionthat we just talked about,
(08:38):
of being respectful, being agood person, that kind of thing.
It's definitions thatpeople have in their mind.
ALEX MCGEE (08:45):
Exactly.
CHARLIE BENNETT: That are created out (08:46):
undefined
of the idea of, I don't know,having something taken away
from you, having somekind of shaming aspect,
having some kind ofinappropriate advantage provided
to a policy driven by, say,DEI, cultural competency,
or whatever.
FRED RASCOE (09:06):
I think along those lines,
there's that view that havingcultural competencies instituted
into, say, job postings forlibrary archival positions,
which I think we'll talkabout in the next segment,
get the hackles upof some folks having
(09:28):
that institutionalrequirements in those.
ALEX MCGEE (09:31):
We'll get into.
But the funny thing isit's not even requirements
for most of these places.
All right, so this isLost in the Stacks.
And we will be back with moreabout cultural competencies
after a music set.
FRED RASCOE (09:47):
Oh.
File this set under BL624.5.L47.
CHARLIE BENNETT: It's because you're (09:52):
undefined
in the wrong seat,isn't it, Fred?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
FRED RASCOE (10:10):
That was "Hung Up" by The Marshmallow Coast.
And before that, "Them Changes,"a version of the Buddy Miles
song by Sunny and The Sunliners.
Those are songs aboutleaving behind old habits
and embracing positive change.
CHARLIE BENNETT (10:31):
This is Lost in the Stacks
and today's show is calledTalk The Talk, Walk The Walk.
It's a panel show inspiredby the article "Recruiting
For Cultural Competency, AContent Analysis Of Archives Job
Postings."
So let me read a bit fromthe article's abstract.
This study analyzes a sample ofnearly 500 archival job postings
(10:53):
to gauge the degree to whichthe job postings demonstrate
the employer's awarenessof and commitment
to cultural competency intheir recruiting practices.
The central finding is thatonly 7% of job ads in the sample
included knowledge, skills,or abilities relating
to cultural competencyamong the requirements
(11:15):
for working in anarchives related position.
Alex, you want to say thatin terms everyone here
can easily understand?
ALEX MCGEE (11:25):
This is not really happening.
[LAUGHTER]
I think the authors wereprojecting, I think,
and looking for this intheir findings of we're
talking about--
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:39):
Looking for the recruiting
for cultural competency.
ALEX MCGEE (11:42):
Because this is such a topic in our profession
and it's buzzy thing, we havelots of presentations about it,
I think they were expectingto see that it was actually
more codified in the jobpostings for the profession.
And what they foundwas that actually--
FRED RASCOE (11:58):
Not so much.
ALEX MCGEE (11:59):
A minuscule number.
And so what theyalso talk about is
that this is in thequalifications for a job
description, not necessarilythe responsibility.
So the responsibilitiesmay have this language,
but for their intents andpurposes, they are looking for,
are there things inthe qualifications
for hiring someone thatpoints to cultural competency?
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:23):
So why is this buzzy?
Why are people talking about it?
What's the elevator pitch forwhy cultural competency is
job postings in particular?
ALEX MCGEE (12:32):
Yeah, so as we know, archives have grown and evolved
and we are diversifyingthe stories that we tell.
Here at GeorgiaTech, it used to be
a lot of administrative recordsof the inner workings of Georgia
Tech.
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:51):
Used to be a file cabinet for the admin.
ALEX MCGEE (12:53):
Yeah, file cabinets and offices.
And now I can talkabout [INAUDIBLE].
What are they doingon campus more?
It's the actions of ourfaculty and maybe those
that are retiring, our alumni.
It's more stories than just thetraditional workings of a higher
ed institution.
And so as aprofession, we will be
(13:15):
better at buildingour collections,
telling those stories,taking care of them
if we understandthem and can have
those [INAUDIBLE] competencypiece comes into play.
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:27):
Can you think of the last time
or a recent time when you hadto put some cultural competency
into play?
ALEX MCGEE (13:37):
Yeah.
So I actually just wasworking with the Society
of Women Engineers.
This is really recent.
They actually weregiving us records
that were going to ourRecords Management Center,
and I was like, oh, divert someof that over to the archive.
(13:58):
Kind of documenting the historyof this particular organization.
They're at all thecolleges all over.
But this chapter atGeorgia Tech actually, it
was founded by PresidentVan Leer's daughter
when women were firstadmitted to Georgia
Tech for the firsttime for engineering.
So they have a reallylong history here.
And I think appealing tothem of why this matters,
(14:21):
why it should bepreserved in the archives.
I think there is hesitancyseen as very valuable to you
personally and yourorganization's history
that maybe you worry thatwhoever you're giving it
to in the archiveswon't appreciate it
the way that you do.
And being able tohave that conversation
and communicate that,no, I appreciate
(14:44):
why this is significant.
And you can trust me to doright by your organization, you
and the history andknow that steward it
well as long as GeorgiaTech is in existence,
but also how I useit in instruction
or how we serve it in thereading room, how we describe it
(15:04):
online.
You can trust that I can userespectful, appropriate language
to talk about whatyou have done.
CHARLIE BENNETT (15:12):
I don't know what it says about me,
but my first thought wasthat your example would
involve us understand it.
ALEX MCGEE (15:19):
That also is true.
CHARLIE BENNETT (15:21):
Absolutely.
But it makes so much moresense that cultural competency,
like a soft skill, bigquote marks around "soft"
in soft skill, is being able towork with the people that you
need to collaborate with, beingable to work with your potential
donors and not have it be,yeah, just give it to me.
ALEX MCGEE (15:42):
Extractive.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think that's one big thingis for archives and especially
with student organizationsor individuals,
just because you giveit to us doesn't mean
that our relationship ends.
I work with studentorganizations
(16:02):
like the Societyof Women Engineers
where they actually came andmade their own time capsules,
and we all decoratedthem and talked
about what we would putin our personal archives
and everything.
And then reflected on thelegacy of their organization
and what is in the archives now.
And so I think that that isa secondary piece to getting
(16:23):
a collection, butspeaks to why it matters
that we have these culturalcompetency skills when
working with folks, becausethe relationship piece is just
as important as people tofeel good and trust us.
FRED RASCOE (16:37):
I think it's important to mention again
that this articlepublished in 2024,
probably written 2023or around that time,
obviously, momentousevents in US politics
since that publication.
ALEX MCGEE (16:56):
To put it delicately.
FRED RASCOE (16:58):
And so their recommendations, well, we
want to have cultural competencyforeground in archivist job
postings.
It's only at-- but Ifeel that even that.
ALEX MCGEE (17:15):
It's 0% now.
FRED RASCOE (17:16):
Right.
The things that they talkabout in this article
that we could do toimprove on that 7%,
those are being explicitlylined out in legislation
and in executive orders,things like that.
(17:37):
I don't know that I havea question about that,
except that--
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:41):
That's a good point to make.
That the ideas in this articlethat were just sort of swimming.
FRED RASCOE (17:48):
Going to be explicit.
Hey, bring an archivist.
Have that person talkabout when they witnessed
a failure ofinclusion or equity,
and that could informfuture archival practice.
And that kind ofquestion was going to be,
if it's not already--
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:07):
Prohibited.
FRED RASCOE: Specifically prohibited. (18:08):
undefined
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:10):
Yeah.
FRED RASCOE (18:13):
So that seems a good place to end the segment.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:16):
A good place or just a place
that we have to end the segment?
FRED RASCOE (18:20):
Why did the end of the segment come now?
Why is it 29 minutesafter the hour now?
I'm sorry about that.
You are listening toLost in the Stacks,
and we'll talk more on the leftside of the hour, hopefully
in a more positive direction.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:34):
Ooh, optimism.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
All right, bring iton home, Jessica.
JESSICA MEYERSON (18:49):
right.
Can you hear me?
Hi, y'all.
I'm Jessica Meyerson, one of theco-directors of The Maintainers.
And you are listening to Lostin the Stacks on WREK Atlanta.
CHARLIE BENNETT (19:12):
Today's episode is called Talk The Talk,
Walk The Walk.
And as we put theepisode together,
I dipped into a fewarticles and TED Talks
about culturalcompetencies and the hits
and misses surroundingthem in our institutions.
I found a talk fromTedX Rutgers-Camden
that stuck out to me.
It's by Dr. Raquel Martin.
It's called "You'reDoing It Wrong,
(19:34):
The Evolution OfCultural Competence."
So here's a clip from that.
RAQUEL MARTIN (19:44):
Did you know that when Professor and psychologist
Dr. Derald Wing Sue coined thephrase cultural competence,
he stated that it is notpossible to be fully versed
on a group of peoplein your lifetime.
It's true.
He actually statedthat it is more
important to haveexperiential learning,
to engage with peoplethat don't look
like you from different walksof life as human beings,
(20:07):
than it is to focus onthe academic trainings,
the cognitive understandingthat so many of these diversity
trainings seek to embody.
But that's not really how we'retaught cultural competence,
is it?
Every year, we aremandated to go to at least
one mandatory training.
(20:27):
Most of the timeit is in February.
We all know why it istypically in February.
And then we see a speaker,we watch a webinar,
we check off a box, weget the certificate.
And too often, theeducation ends there.
No afterthought, no followup, no experiential learning.
(20:48):
And that was never howit was meant to be.
When we treatcultural competence
like an achievable goal, likea finish line to be crossed,
we completely miss the mark.
And we do injusticeto all those that
will be significantlyimpacted by our ignorance,
by our insensitivity, andby our inconsideration.
(21:08):
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:11):
File this set under JK765.U593.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
That was "I UnderstandYou" by The Strand.
(21:32):
And before that,"Graduation Equals Jobless"
by My Little Airport.
Oh, that hurts me in my heart.
And we started thatset with "En Chomage"
by Jean Bernard de Libreville.
I don't think "Liberville"is how you say it,
but that's all thatmy mouth can manage.
Songs about problems withaccessing employment and showing
(21:53):
understanding.
This is Lost in theStacks, and our show
is called Talk TheTalk, Walk The Walk.
We've been talking aboutcultural competencies.
We're going to take alook at ourselves now.
If you're a long timelistener, you probably
have a sense of our politicaland cultural leanings.
I mean, except for Alex, wedon't know what she has hidden.
(22:16):
But that's us talking our talk.
So let's consider our walk.
FRED RASCOE (22:19):
Those archivists, you know.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:21):
I mean, archivists are troublemakers.
ALEX MCGEE (22:22):
Slippery.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:23):
Yeah, and not known for their directness.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm sorry.
I love you, Wendy, andthat's not really the joke
I wanted to make there.
OK.
So the prompt I have here is howdoes the Lost in the Stacks team
think of themselvesand their work
in terms of culturalcompetencies?
And I want to start, because I'mkind of telling on myself there.
(22:46):
As we talked about this, aswe built up this episode,
I realized that Ivery rarely have
to consider whether I have acultural competency in my day
to day work.
When I produce the show, I amworking from previously created
(23:08):
material.
I'm responding tostuff that I've found.
I'm doing research.
And so I don't have totalk to someone about
whether I'm getting it.
I don't do collectiondevelopment.
I think the closest I getto a cultural competency
is when I teach, and I haveto think about how people are
going to take certain things.
(23:28):
But that feels likecognitive competency, not
cultural competency.
So that was the promptor that was the catalyst
for that particular idea.
And so I want to tossit out to you two.
And Cody, you two.
I mean, I see that youhaven't turned on your mic,
but you can talk aboutthis too if you want.
ALEX MCGEE (23:50):
Do you want to go first, Fred?
FRED RASCOE (23:52):
OK, sure.
I can just brieflysay that, like you, I
don't do a lot ofcollection development,
seeking out new areas thathave been previously neglected
in the Georgia Tech collection.
That's not really my area.
But in some aspects, certainlyin my scholarly communication
(24:14):
librarian role,being aware shared
and how that is-- whenit's shared openly,
it's going acrosscultural barriers,
breaking down accessbarriers to that.
And also just a sense, and Idon't know that necessarily this
(24:34):
is something that comesfrom being a librarian,
but just having asense of empathy.
Whether it's areference question
that you're getting or justsome kind of interaction
with a colleague oranything, just understanding
that the concept ofempathy is not against you.
(24:57):
It's not a weaknessthat you have.
It's a strength thatwill inform and improve
whatever it is thatyou do, whether it's
in my line of work,librarianship,
or elsewhere, I'm sure.
ALEX MCGEE (25:10):
I think one of the things that
was really interestingfor me with this article
was they were talking aboutthe difference between a public
facing archivist job.
So if you're doing reference orcollection development, donor
relations, and then technicalservices kind of side
and arguing that actuallypeople doing description work
(25:30):
should have thisas part of their--
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:32):
Examining description work right
from the past.
ALEX MCGEE (25:35):
From the past, yeah.
I think I certainly feellike my job has a lot of it.
But I also, going backto that definition,
I see as I always have lessonsto learn, room to grow.
And I think thatrespectful curiosity
is what I will continueto ground what I do.
(26:00):
But I would say Charlie,more than anything.
So you definitely have acultural competency piece.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:09):
OK.
We're near the endof the segment,
but I'm going toblow past the time,
just because I want torespond to what you just said.
ALEX MCGEE (26:16):
Respond to me.
Do it.
CHARLIE BENNETT: And that's something (26:17):
undefined
I've talked I'vethought about a lot.
Even if I have some ofthat, I have not consciously
thought about how to do it.
I have not considered it.
ALEX MCGEE (26:28):
It starts today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:29):
Oh, I mean, yeah, it starts
with starts with a cipher.
Now, having to foregroundin your thinking something
that you do either automaticallyor intuitively, it's a big deal.
It feels like a kind of rift.
ALEX MCGEE (26:48):
It's intentional.
It has to be intentional.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:50):
It has to be intentional.
So yes, I do thinkthat I am public facing
and that I work withincultural competencies,
and I don't doterribly, but I also
don't think I've beenvery intentional about it.
ALEX MCGEE (27:01):
Room for growth.
FRED RASCOE (27:02):
Now in the political environment
that we're in, because itjust has to be something
that we started atthe top of the show
saying that thisis just us talking,
and that's because these are notpolicies that are coming down
from administration.
ALEX MCGEE (27:17):
It's a choice we are making.
FRED RASCOE (27:19):
This is what individuals
have to do, not required aspart of an institutional policy,
but just what individualsmight do just to--
ALEX MCGEE (27:28):
Be better at our jobs and in the world,
and to be better human beings.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:33):
And being prepared for critique
that's not intentional.
Critique that'ssort of, oh, DEI.
That's how everyone'sgetting away--
ALEX MCGEE (27:40):
Talking about people assign shame to this sometimes
that we're not good at this.
And I think thatthat's certainly,
I mean, I have hadmoments where I'm like,
I need to be betterin this area,
or I've had an interaction whereI got needed feedback that I
missed the mark on something.
And rather than seeing thatas a really low moment,
(28:04):
instead seeing it as a learningopportunity for me to be better
twice is what I always say.
And I've been likethat for a long time.
Honestly, when I gota test back in school,
I wanted to know exactly why Igot something wrong, because I
wasn't going to makethat mistake again.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:22):
I'm laughing because in my life,
I think I have really enjoyedmaking the same mistake
over and over and over again.
ALEX MCGEE (28:30):
We are learning a lot about each other today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:32):
Yeah.
This is Lost in theStacks, and today we've
been discussingcultural competence.
Other things.
ALEX MCGEE (28:38):
File this set under LC1099.3.B73.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(29:06):
That was "You're AllTalk" by Cheap Trick.
And before that, "Every WordIs True" by Tiger Tiger.
Songs about being honestwith yourself and others.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:24):
Today's show was called Talk The Talk,
Walk The Walk.
And if you're up for it,Lost in the Stacks crew,
I wonder if you mightidentify some talk of your own
that you want toguide your walk.
That is to say,what's a principle
or value that youhold that you need
to start putting into action?
We're going to gothrough this one quick,
because we alreadyborrowed some time.
(29:46):
I'm just going to say gratitude.
Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (29:51):
Don't be afraid to ask why.
Doing things.
I don't know.
I just sometimes feelbad about asking why,
but I usually reallyneed that to execute.
CHARLIE BENNETT: And it turned out (30:02):
undefined
to work out just fineoff air, didn't it?
FRED RASCOE (30:07):
I talked about empathy in the show,
so I want to makesure I continue that.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:11):
Nice.
Cody?
CODY TURNER (30:13):
I think you got to contribute.
So if you want to go tothe public comment section,
you got to say something atthe public comment section.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:21):
OK.
Y'all's were better than mine.
Cody, will you pleaseroll the credits?
Lost in the Stacksis a collaboration
between WREK Atlanta andthe Georgia Tech Library.
Written and produced byAlex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
ALEX MCGEE (30:42):
Legal counsel and an email encouraging us
not to actually dothe show provided
by the Burruss Intellectualproperty Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:49):
Sorry, Philip.
FRED RASCOE (30:52):
Special thanks to Helen, Don, Cindy, and Lisa
for writing the articlethat we talked about today.
And thanks, as always, toeach and every one of you
for listening.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:00):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to get in touchwith us, as Cody discussed.
ALEX MCGEE (31:13):
Next week, we'll talk
about how to writean academic book
about the fast paced,disorienting world of the flight
attendant.
FRED RASCOE (31:20):
And it's time for our last song today.
All of us here on the show willcontinue to try and improve
our cultural competency.
It's a worthy goal,because cultural competency
will remain necessary evenin environments when it's not
required or embedded ina policy, which nowadays
may be most environments.
(31:42):
But just because it'snot in our systems
doesn't mean we haveto be quiet about it.
So let's close with asong about speaking up.
This is "Bring The Noise"by Public Enemy and Anthrax
together.
Does that count ascross-cultural collaboration?
CHARLIE BENNETT: Waxes for Anthrax. (31:58):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (32:00):
Have a great weekend, everybody.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:00):
[Clip from Hustle and Flow]
Key (00:00):
Let me tell you what I learned while working on my job.
Deejay (00:03):
Thank you.
Key (00:04):
There are two types of people.
Those that talk the talk andthose that walk the walk.
People who walk the walk,they sometimes talk the talk.
But most of thetime, they don't talk
at all 'cause they're walking.
Now, people who talk the talk,when it comes time for them
to walk, you want toknow what they do?
(00:24):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:46):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in theStacks, the research library
rock and roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennett in thestudio with Fred Rascoe, Cody
Turner, and Alex McGee.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
Whichever you're herefor, we hope you dig it.
ALEX MCGEE (01:07):
Our show today is called Talk The Talk,
Walk The Walk.
It's a panel show,so you're going
to hear our thoughts ona couple of subjects.
Our opinions are,of course, our own
and do not necessarilyreflect the beliefs and values
of WREK or Georgia Tech.
CHARLIE BENNETT: What does-- wait, (01:22):
undefined
did you just do a disclaimer?
FRED RASCOE (01:26):
I don't think we've ever done one of those before.
ALEX MCGEE (01:29):
Yikes.
Well, let me rip off theBand-Aid from this boo-boo right
away.
The phrase diversity, equity,and inclusion, otherwise
known as DEI--
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:39):
Oh, OK.
ALEX MCGEE (01:40):
Has become a flashpoint
in the current culture war,especially in higher education.
Today, we're talking aboutcultural competencies, which
are an essential part ofadvancing DEIA, otherwise known
as diversity, equity, inclusion,and accessibility, in libraries
and archives.
FRED RASCOE (01:55):
And since anything related to a DEI or DEIA,
anything like that seemsto raise hackles and stick
in craws, we need a disclaimer.
This is just us talking,the three of us.
So let's not justdo a disclaimer.
Let's also say, promotingor attacking DEI and DEIA
(02:16):
as a monolithic, simpleconcept will get us nowhere.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:20):
OK, I'm down for both of those things.
ALEX MCGEE (02:22):
So today we're talking
about cultural competencies.
What are they?
Why are they?
What do we think of them?
And are they inarchival job postings?
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:31):
One of those questions
might sound like it'sdifferent from the others,
but here's the deal.
To seed our conversation,we're using an article titled
"Recruiting ForCultural Competency,
A Content Analysis OfArchives Job Postings,"
written by Helen Wong Smith,Don Schmitz, and Cindy Shein,
with Lisa Schmitz, published inThe American Archivist in 2024.
FRED RASCOE (02:53):
And our songs today are about rolling with new ways
that you may not be used to,employment and connecting
outside your cultural circleand being honest with yourself
and others.
One of the key findingsin that article,
"Cultural CompetenciesIn Job Postings,"
were disproportionate tothe professional emphasis
on cultural competency.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:13):
What a diplomatic way to say it, Fred.
FRED RASCOE (03:16):
If you talk the talk but don't walk the walk,
problems arise.
CHARLIE BENNETT (03:19):
There it is.
FRED RASCOE (03:20):
So let's start with "When Problems Arise"
by Fishbone, right hereon Lost in the Stacks.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
That was "When ProblemsArise" by fishbone.
Our show today is calledTalk The Talk, Walk The Walk.
(03:40):
We are discussingcultural competencies
sparked by an articlethat Alex brought to us.
ALEX MCGEE (03:47):
That's right.
It's "Recruiting ForCultural Competency,
A Content Analysis OfArchives Job Postings"
written by Helen WongSmith, Don Schmitz,
and Cindy Shein with LisaSchmitz and published
in The AmericanArchivist in 2024.
CHARLIE BENNETT: And so let's start (04:03):
undefined
with a conversational sparkthat's right there in the title.
Cultural competency.
What is that?
ALEX MCGEE (04:11):
So as the good pupil that I am, I have summarized.
Well, they distill a lotof different definitions
and end up with onethat they are using.
CHARLIE BENNETT (04:22):
I was so worried you
were about to startwith an undergrad paper.
Webster's definescultural competency.
[LAUGHTER]
ALEX MCGEE (04:29):
Well, I'm going to let them.
They've settled on a nicedefinition that I want to read.
Cultural competencyis the capacity
to continuallyimprove one's ability
to function with self-awareness,open mindedness, humility,
respect, knowledge,and interpersonal skill
when engaging with people fromall backgrounds and experiences.
(04:50):
It requires an awarenessand understanding
of the significanceof culture, beginning
with one's own,and an orientation
of respectful curiositytoward the beliefs, values,
and practices of others.
Key components arethe recognition
of the structural,socioeconomic,
and political factorsthat adversely
affect diverse populations,and the commitment
(05:10):
to respond with policies orpractices that recognize,
affirm, and protect the dignityof individuals, families,
and communities.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:19):
Can I try and say that back to you?
ALEX MCGEE (05:21):
Sure.
CHARLIE BENNETT: Cultural competency (05:21):
undefined
is not assuming that you arethe default. I mean, that's
what I try and tell my kids.
ALEX MCGEE (05:28):
Yeah.
I think the things that stuckout to me that I underlined
are continually improve.
This idea that this is nota fixed function for us.
It is iterative work thatwe are always working on.
And I really liked therespectful curiosity.
I think that'ssomething that when
(05:48):
I think about talking to my sonabout other cultures, other,
people this idea that we can askquestions, but it's grounding it
and respectfulness.
CHARLIE BENNETT (05:58):
And it's not about a particular store
of knowledge.
It's about a way of being.
Being able to imagine that youare going to learn something,
to learn it, andthen to apply it.
ALEX MCGEE (06:13):
Yeah.
And I think theother thing I really
like about this definitionis I feel like people that
are defensive about DEIand DEIA, often it's part--
or they're feeling lessthan because they're not
doing this work.
And I think thething that I really
like is this idea that it's openmindedness, it's respectfulness.
Those are, I think, goodconcepts for all of us
(06:36):
as human beings to engage in.
And so I think that I like thepositiveness of this definition.
Because it's thinking aboutwe all grow as human beings.
That's how I view this work,especially in archives.
FRED RASCOE (06:51):
It seems like a really non-controversial idea
if you just talk about itin terms of its definition.
You respect other people.
You acknowledgewhat others believe
and where they're coming from.
ALEX MCGEE (07:04):
It's not saying one is right or wrong either.
It's just sayingthat my point of view
is not the only point of view.
And that's OK.
FRED RASCOE (07:12):
And everyone should adopt that life,
since we're talking aboutwalking the walk, right?
CHARLIE BENNETT: I mean, that would (07:17):
undefined
be a position onecould take, if one were
going to do a call to action.
[LAUGHTER]
Not that we would do that.
ALEX MCGEE (07:28):
Definitely not.
FRED RASCOE (07:29):
There's parallels in probably a lot
of religious traditions.
The one that I certainly comefrom, there's that golden rule.
ALEX MCGEE (07:38):
The golden rule.
Exactly.
FRED RASCOE (07:39):
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
So it sometimes stymies mea little bit, dumbfounded.
It is to incorporate things likecultural competency into a job.
I understand why it is,but that doesn't stop me
from being dumbfoundeda little bit by it.
ALEX MCGEE (07:59):
Well, and I want to think
that some of these baselinethings of being respectful
to our colleagues and to others,that shouldn't be new for us.
But putting it inthis framework,
suddenly it is controversial.
CHARLIE BENNETT (08:18):
So this conversation
is a race that I just lost,because you two presented
these ideas, but I'm thethird person to talk,
so I have to do thisslightly against what
you're saying stuff.
I have to do a counterpoint,which I can't really do.
But I can say that thetrouble we run into
is not with the definitionthat we just talked about,
(08:38):
of being respectful, being agood person, that kind of thing.
It's definitions thatpeople have in their mind.
ALEX MCGEE (08:45):
Exactly.
CHARLIE BENNETT: That are created out (08:46):
undefined
of the idea of, I don't know,having something taken away
from you, having somekind of shaming aspect,
having some kind ofinappropriate advantage provided
to a policy driven by, say,DEI, cultural competency,
or whatever.
FRED RASCOE (09:06):
I think along those lines,
there's that view that havingcultural competencies instituted
into, say, job postings forlibrary archival positions,
which I think we'll talkabout in the next segment,
get the hackles upof some folks having
(09:28):
that institutionalrequirements in those.
ALEX MCGEE (09:31):
We'll get into.
But the funny thing isit's not even requirements
for most of these places.
All right, so this isLost in the Stacks.
And we will be back with moreabout cultural competencies
after a music set.
FRED RASCOE (09:47):
Oh.
File this set under BL624.5.L47.
CHARLIE BENNETT: It's because you're (09:52):
undefined
in the wrong seat,isn't it, Fred?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
FRED RASCOE (10:10):
That was "Hung Up" by The Marshmallow Coast.
And before that, "Them Changes,"a version of the Buddy Miles
song by Sunny and The Sunliners.
Those are songs aboutleaving behind old habits
and embracing positive change.
CHARLIE BENNETT (10:31):
This is Lost in the Stacks
and today's show is calledTalk The Talk, Walk The Walk.
It's a panel show inspiredby the article "Recruiting
For Cultural Competency, AContent Analysis Of Archives Job
Postings."
So let me read a bit fromthe article's abstract.
This study analyzes a sample ofnearly 500 archival job postings
(10:53):
to gauge the degree to whichthe job postings demonstrate
the employer's awarenessof and commitment
to cultural competency intheir recruiting practices.
The central finding is thatonly 7% of job ads in the sample
included knowledge, skills,or abilities relating
to cultural competencyamong the requirements
(11:15):
for working in anarchives related position.
Alex, you want to say thatin terms everyone here
can easily understand?
ALEX MCGEE (11:25):
This is not really happening.
[LAUGHTER]
I think the authors wereprojecting, I think,
and looking for this intheir findings of we're
talking about--
CHARLIE BENNETT (11:39):
Looking for the recruiting
for cultural competency.
ALEX MCGEE (11:42):
Because this is such a topic in our profession
and it's buzzy thing, we havelots of presentations about it,
I think they were expectingto see that it was actually
more codified in the jobpostings for the profession.
And what they foundwas that actually--
FRED RASCOE (11:58):
Not so much.
ALEX MCGEE (11:59):
A minuscule number.
And so what theyalso talk about is
that this is in thequalifications for a job
description, not necessarilythe responsibility.
So the responsibilitiesmay have this language,
but for their intents andpurposes, they are looking for,
are there things inthe qualifications
for hiring someone thatpoints to cultural competency?
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:23):
So why is this buzzy?
Why are people talking about it?
What's the elevator pitch forwhy cultural competency is
job postings in particular?
ALEX MCGEE (12:32):
Yeah, so as we know, archives have grown and evolved
and we are diversifyingthe stories that we tell.
Here at GeorgiaTech, it used to be
a lot of administrative recordsof the inner workings of Georgia
Tech.
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:51):
Used to be a file cabinet for the admin.
ALEX MCGEE (12:53):
Yeah, file cabinets and offices.
And now I can talkabout [INAUDIBLE].
What are they doingon campus more?
It's the actions of ourfaculty and maybe those
that are retiring, our alumni.
It's more stories than just thetraditional workings of a higher
ed institution.
And so as aprofession, we will be
(13:15):
better at buildingour collections,
telling those stories,taking care of them
if we understandthem and can have
those [INAUDIBLE] competencypiece comes into play.
CHARLIE BENNETT (13:27):
Can you think of the last time
or a recent time when you hadto put some cultural competency
into play?
ALEX MCGEE (13:37):
Yeah.
So I actually just wasworking with the Society
of Women Engineers.
This is really recent.
They actually weregiving us records
that were going to ourRecords Management Center,
and I was like, oh, divert someof that over to the archive.
(13:58):
Kind of documenting the historyof this particular organization.
They're at all thecolleges all over.
But this chapter atGeorgia Tech actually, it
was founded by PresidentVan Leer's daughter
when women were firstadmitted to Georgia
Tech for the firsttime for engineering.
So they have a reallylong history here.
And I think appealing tothem of why this matters,
(14:21):
why it should bepreserved in the archives.
I think there is hesitancyseen as very valuable to you
personally and yourorganization's history
that maybe you worry thatwhoever you're giving it
to in the archiveswon't appreciate it
the way that you do.
And being able tohave that conversation
and communicate that,no, I appreciate
(14:44):
why this is significant.
And you can trust me to doright by your organization, you
and the history andknow that steward it
well as long as GeorgiaTech is in existence,
but also how I useit in instruction
or how we serve it in thereading room, how we describe it
(15:04):
online.
You can trust that I can userespectful, appropriate language
to talk about whatyou have done.
CHARLIE BENNETT (15:12):
I don't know what it says about me,
but my first thought wasthat your example would
involve us understand it.
ALEX MCGEE (15:19):
That also is true.
CHARLIE BENNETT (15:21):
Absolutely.
But it makes so much moresense that cultural competency,
like a soft skill, bigquote marks around "soft"
in soft skill, is being able towork with the people that you
need to collaborate with, beingable to work with your potential
donors and not have it be,yeah, just give it to me.
ALEX MCGEE (15:42):
Extractive.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think that's one big thingis for archives and especially
with student organizationsor individuals,
just because you giveit to us doesn't mean
that our relationship ends.
I work with studentorganizations
(16:02):
like the Societyof Women Engineers
where they actually came andmade their own time capsules,
and we all decoratedthem and talked
about what we would putin our personal archives
and everything.
And then reflected on thelegacy of their organization
and what is in the archives now.
And so I think that that isa secondary piece to getting
(16:23):
a collection, butspeaks to why it matters
that we have these culturalcompetency skills when
working with folks, becausethe relationship piece is just
as important as people tofeel good and trust us.
FRED RASCOE (16:37):
I think it's important to mention again
that this articlepublished in 2024,
probably written 2023or around that time,
obviously, momentousevents in US politics
since that publication.
ALEX MCGEE (16:56):
To put it delicately.
FRED RASCOE (16:58):
And so their recommendations, well, we
want to have cultural competencyforeground in archivist job
postings.
It's only at-- but Ifeel that even that.
ALEX MCGEE (17:15):
It's 0% now.
FRED RASCOE (17:16):
Right.
The things that they talkabout in this article
that we could do toimprove on that 7%,
those are being explicitlylined out in legislation
and in executive orders,things like that.
(17:37):
I don't know that I havea question about that,
except that--
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:41):
That's a good point to make.
That the ideas in this articlethat were just sort of swimming.
FRED RASCOE (17:48):
Going to be explicit.
Hey, bring an archivist.
Have that person talkabout when they witnessed
a failure ofinclusion or equity,
and that could informfuture archival practice.
And that kind ofquestion was going to be,
if it's not already--
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:07):
Prohibited.
FRED RASCOE: Specifically prohibited. (18:08):
undefined
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:10):
Yeah.
FRED RASCOE (18:13):
So that seems a good place to end the segment.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:16):
A good place or just a place
that we have to end the segment?
FRED RASCOE (18:20):
Why did the end of the segment come now?
Why is it 29 minutesafter the hour now?
I'm sorry about that.
You are listening toLost in the Stacks,
and we'll talk more on the leftside of the hour, hopefully
in a more positive direction.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:34):
Ooh, optimism.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
All right, bring iton home, Jessica.
JESSICA MEYERSON (18:49):
right.
Can you hear me?
Hi, y'all.
I'm Jessica Meyerson, one of theco-directors of The Maintainers.
And you are listening to Lostin the Stacks on WREK Atlanta.
CHARLIE BENNETT (19:12):
Today's episode is called Talk The Talk,
Walk The Walk.
And as we put theepisode together,
I dipped into a fewarticles and TED Talks
about culturalcompetencies and the hits
and misses surroundingthem in our institutions.
I found a talk fromTedX Rutgers-Camden
that stuck out to me.
It's by Dr. Raquel Martin.
It's called "You'reDoing It Wrong,
(19:34):
The Evolution OfCultural Competence."
So here's a clip from that.
RAQUEL MARTIN (19:44):
Did you know that when Professor and psychologist
Dr. Derald Wing Sue coined thephrase cultural competence,
he stated that it is notpossible to be fully versed
on a group of peoplein your lifetime.
It's true.
He actually statedthat it is more
important to haveexperiential learning,
to engage with peoplethat don't look
like you from different walksof life as human beings,
(20:07):
than it is to focus onthe academic trainings,
the cognitive understandingthat so many of these diversity
trainings seek to embody.
But that's not really how we'retaught cultural competence,
is it?
Every year, we aremandated to go to at least
one mandatory training.
(20:27):
Most of the timeit is in February.
We all know why it istypically in February.
And then we see a speaker,we watch a webinar,
we check off a box, weget the certificate.
And too often, theeducation ends there.
No afterthought, no followup, no experiential learning.
(20:48):
And that was never howit was meant to be.
When we treatcultural competence
like an achievable goal, likea finish line to be crossed,
we completely miss the mark.
And we do injusticeto all those that
will be significantlyimpacted by our ignorance,
by our insensitivity, andby our inconsideration.
(21:08):
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:11):
File this set under JK765.U593.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
That was "I UnderstandYou" by The Strand.
(21:32):
And before that,"Graduation Equals Jobless"
by My Little Airport.
Oh, that hurts me in my heart.
And we started thatset with "En Chomage"
by Jean Bernard de Libreville.
I don't think "Liberville"is how you say it,
but that's all thatmy mouth can manage.
Songs about problems withaccessing employment and showing
(21:53):
understanding.
This is Lost in theStacks, and our show
is called Talk TheTalk, Walk The Walk.
We've been talking aboutcultural competencies.
We're going to take alook at ourselves now.
If you're a long timelistener, you probably
have a sense of our politicaland cultural leanings.
I mean, except for Alex, wedon't know what she has hidden.
(22:16):
But that's us talking our talk.
So let's consider our walk.
FRED RASCOE (22:19):
Those archivists, you know.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:21):
I mean, archivists are troublemakers.
ALEX MCGEE (22:22):
Slippery.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:23):
Yeah, and not known for their directness.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm sorry.
I love you, Wendy, andthat's not really the joke
I wanted to make there.
OK.
So the prompt I have here is howdoes the Lost in the Stacks team
think of themselvesand their work
in terms of culturalcompetencies?
And I want to start, because I'mkind of telling on myself there.
(22:46):
As we talked about this, aswe built up this episode,
I realized that Ivery rarely have
to consider whether I have acultural competency in my day
to day work.
When I produce the show, I amworking from previously created
(23:08):
material.
I'm responding tostuff that I've found.
I'm doing research.
And so I don't have totalk to someone about
whether I'm getting it.
I don't do collectiondevelopment.
I think the closest I getto a cultural competency
is when I teach, and I haveto think about how people are
going to take certain things.
(23:28):
But that feels likecognitive competency, not
cultural competency.
So that was the promptor that was the catalyst
for that particular idea.
And so I want to tossit out to you two.
And Cody, you two.
I mean, I see that youhaven't turned on your mic,
but you can talk aboutthis too if you want.
ALEX MCGEE (23:50):
Do you want to go first, Fred?
FRED RASCOE (23:52):
OK, sure.
I can just brieflysay that, like you, I
don't do a lot ofcollection development,
seeking out new areas thathave been previously neglected
in the Georgia Tech collection.
That's not really my area.
But in some aspects, certainlyin my scholarly communication
(24:14):
librarian role,being aware shared
and how that is-- whenit's shared openly,
it's going acrosscultural barriers,
breaking down accessbarriers to that.
And also just a sense, and Idon't know that necessarily this
(24:34):
is something that comesfrom being a librarian,
but just having asense of empathy.
Whether it's areference question
that you're getting or justsome kind of interaction
with a colleague oranything, just understanding
that the concept ofempathy is not against you.
(24:57):
It's not a weaknessthat you have.
It's a strength thatwill inform and improve
whatever it is thatyou do, whether it's
in my line of work,librarianship,
or elsewhere, I'm sure.
ALEX MCGEE (25:10):
I think one of the things that
was really interestingfor me with this article
was they were talking aboutthe difference between a public
facing archivist job.
So if you're doing reference orcollection development, donor
relations, and then technicalservices kind of side
and arguing that actuallypeople doing description work
(25:30):
should have thisas part of their--
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:32):
Examining description work right
from the past.
ALEX MCGEE (25:35):
From the past, yeah.
I think I certainly feellike my job has a lot of it.
But I also, going backto that definition,
I see as I always have lessonsto learn, room to grow.
And I think thatrespectful curiosity
is what I will continueto ground what I do.
(26:00):
But I would say Charlie,more than anything.
So you definitely have acultural competency piece.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:09):
OK.
We're near the endof the segment,
but I'm going toblow past the time,
just because I want torespond to what you just said.
ALEX MCGEE (26:16):
Respond to me.
Do it.
CHARLIE BENNETT: And that's something (26:17):
undefined
I've talked I'vethought about a lot.
Even if I have some ofthat, I have not consciously
thought about how to do it.
I have not considered it.
ALEX MCGEE (26:28):
It starts today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:29):
Oh, I mean, yeah, it starts
with starts with a cipher.
Now, having to foregroundin your thinking something
that you do either automaticallyor intuitively, it's a big deal.
It feels like a kind of rift.
ALEX MCGEE (26:48):
It's intentional.
It has to be intentional.
CHARLIE BENNETT (26:50):
It has to be intentional.
So yes, I do thinkthat I am public facing
and that I work withincultural competencies,
and I don't doterribly, but I also
don't think I've beenvery intentional about it.
ALEX MCGEE (27:01):
Room for growth.
FRED RASCOE (27:02):
Now in the political environment
that we're in, because itjust has to be something
that we started atthe top of the show
saying that thisis just us talking,
and that's because these are notpolicies that are coming down
from administration.
ALEX MCGEE (27:17):
It's a choice we are making.
FRED RASCOE (27:19):
This is what individuals
have to do, not required aspart of an institutional policy,
but just what individualsmight do just to--
ALEX MCGEE (27:28):
Be better at our jobs and in the world,
and to be better human beings.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:33):
And being prepared for critique
that's not intentional.
Critique that'ssort of, oh, DEI.
That's how everyone'sgetting away--
ALEX MCGEE (27:40):
Talking about people assign shame to this sometimes
that we're not good at this.
And I think thatthat's certainly,
I mean, I have hadmoments where I'm like,
I need to be betterin this area,
or I've had an interaction whereI got needed feedback that I
missed the mark on something.
And rather than seeing thatas a really low moment,
(28:04):
instead seeing it as a learningopportunity for me to be better
twice is what I always say.
And I've been likethat for a long time.
Honestly, when I gota test back in school,
I wanted to know exactly why Igot something wrong, because I
wasn't going to makethat mistake again.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:22):
I'm laughing because in my life,
I think I have really enjoyedmaking the same mistake
over and over and over again.
ALEX MCGEE (28:30):
We are learning a lot about each other today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (28:32):
Yeah.
This is Lost in theStacks, and today we've
been discussingcultural competence.
Other things.
ALEX MCGEE (28:38):
File this set under LC1099.3.B73.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(29:06):
That was "You're AllTalk" by Cheap Trick.
And before that, "Every WordIs True" by Tiger Tiger.
Songs about being honestwith yourself and others.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHARLIE BENNETT (29:24):
Today's show was called Talk The Talk,
Walk The Walk.
And if you're up for it,Lost in the Stacks crew,
I wonder if you mightidentify some talk of your own
that you want toguide your walk.
That is to say,what's a principle
or value that youhold that you need
to start putting into action?
We're going to gothrough this one quick,
because we alreadyborrowed some time.
(29:46):
I'm just going to say gratitude.
Alex.
ALEX MCGEE (29:51):
Don't be afraid to ask why.
Doing things.
I don't know.
I just sometimes feelbad about asking why,
but I usually reallyneed that to execute.
CHARLIE BENNETT: And it turned out (30:02):
undefined
to work out just fineoff air, didn't it?
FRED RASCOE (30:07):
I talked about empathy in the show,
so I want to makesure I continue that.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:11):
Nice.
Cody?
CODY TURNER (30:13):
I think you got to contribute.
So if you want to go tothe public comment section,
you got to say something atthe public comment section.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:21):
OK.
Y'all's were better than mine.
Cody, will you pleaseroll the credits?
Lost in the Stacksis a collaboration
between WREK Atlanta andthe Georgia Tech Library.
Written and produced byAlex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
ALEX MCGEE (30:42):
Legal counsel and an email encouraging us
not to actually dothe show provided
by the Burruss Intellectualproperty Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:49):
Sorry, Philip.
FRED RASCOE (30:52):
Special thanks to Helen, Don, Cindy, and Lisa
for writing the articlethat we talked about today.
And thanks, as always, toeach and every one of you
for listening.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:00):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to get in touchwith us, as Cody discussed.
ALEX MCGEE (31:13):
Next week, we'll talk
about how to writean academic book
about the fast paced,disorienting world of the flight
attendant.
FRED RASCOE (31:20):
And it's time for our last song today.
All of us here on the show willcontinue to try and improve
our cultural competency.
It's a worthy goal,because cultural competency
will remain necessary evenin environments when it's not
required or embedded ina policy, which nowadays
may be most environments.
(31:42):
But just because it'snot in our systems
doesn't mean we haveto be quiet about it.
So let's close with asong about speaking up.
This is "Bring The Noise"by Public Enemy and Anthrax
together.
Does that count ascross-cultural collaboration?
CHARLIE BENNETT: Waxes for Anthrax. (31:58):
undefined
FRED RASCOE (32:00):
Have a great weekend, everybody.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
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