July 18, 2025 • 58 mins
Guests: Danielle Evans, Affordable Learning Librarian; Justin Ellis, Digital Learning & Instruction Librarian; Karen Manning, Student Experience Librarian; and Raven Davis, Research Scientist in Data Analytics, all from the Georgia Tech Library.
First broadcast July 18 2025. Transcript: https://hdl.handle.net/1853/78035
Playlist here
"We're here to bust the myth."
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(00:01):
Some of us don't expressour skills very adequately.
Are you able topull it out of them
and get it into anattention-getting resume?
I think to the extent we cando that within these sessions,
we definitely focus on that.
What you say is 100% true.
So many times aprofessional will say,
but that's justwhat I do in my job.
(00:23):
What's the big deal?
And I say it is abig deal because that
is a strength you have.
And this isn't the time tohide it under a bushel basket.
[ROCK MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:54):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in the Stacks,the research library rock 'n
roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennettin the studio with--
and normally I say some nameshere, but it is crowded.
The oxygen level isstarting to drop.
I can feel it.
I'm in the studiowith a big old crowd.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
(01:17):
Whichever you are herefor, we hope you dig it.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:19):
And our show today is called,
"You Can Take It With You."
ALEX MCGEE (01:23):
OK, I was wondering where we
were going to put the emphasis.
I thought maybe it was, You.
Can take.
It with you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:29):
Oh, Alex.
FRED RASCOE (01:30):
Right.
You got to put the em-phay-sison the right syl-ab-ble.
I was thinking youcan take it with you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:36):
I honestly thought it
was, you can take it with you.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:39):
Yeah, actually, that one also makes sense.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:42):
Oh, good.
ALEX MCGEE (01:42):
Yeah.
Because it is what we'regoing to be talking
about with our guest today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:46):
OK, so to quote Faith No More, what is it?
MARLEE GIVENS (01:50):
It refers to the universal skills
that we acquire at work,things that are not necessarily
in our job descriptionsor hard skills,
like coding or cataloging.
We often call these portableskills, or transferable skills,
because they apply inmultiple job contexts.
They carry from job to job.
ALEX MCGEE (02:08):
Skills like communication, problem solving,
adaptability, leadership.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:11):
Don't forget creativity, public speaking,
and improvisation.
MARLEE GIVENS (02:15):
Exactly.
And our guests today arefour fairly new members
of the Georgia TechLibrary faculty
who rose through the ranks froma variety of public-facing staff
positions to wherethey are today.
But they haven'tforgotten their roots,
and they continue to applythe transferable skills
that they acquired in earlierroles to do what they do now.
FRED RASCOE (02:33):
And our songs today are
about skills, the peoplewho have those skills,
and whether one needs to stayput or move on to really put
those skills to use.
That's a differentdecision for everyone.
But today we'retalking to some folks
who have decided, for now, thatthis must be the place here
at Georgia Tech.
So let's start with "This MustBe The Place (Naive Melody)"
(02:56):
by Talking Heads.
Right here on Lostin the Stacks.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:59):
It's a love song for a lamp.
[TALKING HEADS, "THIS MUSTBE THE PLACE (NAIVE MELODY)"]
MARLEE GIVENS (03:19):
"This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody)"
by Talking Heads.
Our show today is YouCan Take It With You.
And we are pleased to welcomesome returning guests--
Karen Manning, Raven Davis,Justin Ellis and Danielle Evans.
And I would like for everyone--
because you all havesomething in common, right?
Part of the reasonthat you're here
(03:41):
is that you have kindof coalesced as a group
around making the transitionfrom a paraprofessional staff
role to a faculty positionwithin the library,
and you're now all part of theGeorgia Tech Library faculty.
So what I'd like to do as you'reintroducing yourselves is just
to share, what was the staffrole that you moved out of?
(04:03):
And then what is yourfaculty position now?
And we'll start with Karen.
KAREN MANNING (04:07):
So hello, everyone.
I'm Karen Manning and I'm theStudent Experience Librarian
at the library.
My role actually started inthe public-facing position
in the biggest--
the largest library in theworld, the Library of Congress.
And then it transitionedhere with my first position
at the Georgia Tech Libraryat the circulation desk.
(04:29):
And I just want to make adistinction that at the time
it was called PublicServices, which
now, if we referenceAccess Services,
is also the same thing.
And so I worked in thatposition for years,
and then I transitioned intoTechnical Services, which now I
am in the faculty position asa Student Experience Librarian.
RAVEN DAVIS (04:51):
This is Raven Davis.
I started about eight yearsago in Public Services,
and I'm now a researchscientist in Data Analytics.
JUSTIN ELLIS (05:02):
Hi, I'm Justin Ellis.
I am currently theDigital Learning
and Instruction Librarian.
This month I am celebratingmy 18th year at Georgia Tech.
I've been in my current rolefor a little over two years.
And I'm probably best known--
I've held a few different PublicServices roles, but probably
best known as Public Serviceslead and service owner
(05:24):
and co-manager for ourequipment-lending or gadget
service.
DANIELLE EVANS (05:30):
And I'm Danielle Evans.
I started in public servicesat Georgia Tech in 2022.
And I am now the AffordableLearning Librarian
in Technical Services.
MARLEE GIVENS (05:42):
All right.
So yeah, everyone has had, Iguess, some time on the desk.
So part of what we wantedto talk about today
was just this idea ofthese transferable skills
that you sort of grewin your previous roles.
And you now-- Ithink you all feel
(06:03):
like you have broughtsomething of that
into your current experience.
So does anyonewant to talk about
what's a skill that comes tomind when you think about that?
Yeah, Justin.
JUSTIN ELLIS (06:19):
I'll say listening skills,
having spent many hours on aninfo desk or circulation desk,
listening to the needs ofstudents or faculty members
and just trying to understand,even if they don't necessarily
know how to articulateit in the moment.
Your job is to try and askthose probing questions
and figure out thereference interview.
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:43):
And I think we should
dig into that justa little bit more.
Because obviously,listening is something
many people have to do.
What's the particular thingabout that at-the-desk listening
that feels different thansay, research, consultation
or listening in a meeting?
JUSTIN ELLIS (06:58):
Very time sensitive.
You are in the moment, so youhave to really develop or hone
those listening skills to hearbeyond the initial question,
and sometimes probea little bit deeper.
And again, you onlyhave maybe a couple
of minutes to get towhat the real need is.
(07:19):
MARLEE GIVENS (07:22):
And so what's the kind
of listening that you feellike you're doing now?
JUSTIN ELLIS (07:25):
That's a good question.
I mean, probably oneof the biggest skills--
and I'm a shy person.
Some people maynot believe that.
But listening andtalking to folks, too--
one of my sort of thingsthat I worked on a lot,
even in my gadgets role--
was listening tofaculty and reaching out
to faculty, which issomething that I have
(07:46):
to do now on a regular basis.
So understandingwhat faculty are
trying to do with particularprojects, what technology needs
they have, what are the learningoutcomes for their students.
MARLEE GIVENS (07:59):
And Karen, I think you
might have raised your hand?
Is there somethingthat you wanted to add?
KAREN MANNING (08:05):
Well, I wanted to add those types of skills
were skills thatwere already being
conducted as staff members.
And that's a perspectiveI want to discuss,
is that staff have always beendoing things that traditionally
are supposedly librarian roles.
We do informationliteracy courses,
(08:28):
we teach, there's instruction,collection development.
And so differentroles that-- research,
managing other people hasalways been a part of the roles.
It's just never been correlatedas far as the librarianship.
MARLEE GIVENS (08:45):
Yeah.
And I think we've talked aboutthat on the show a little bit,
just--
and maybe in a waythat Georgia Tech is
kind of leading the way increating these opportunities
or distributing the work ina way that's not necessarily
the traditional, facultydo this and staff do that.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:05):
I was in a lunch with a search--
with a candidate.
I was helping a search committeeout, talking to a job candidate
at the Georgia Tech Library.
And they were really pleasantlysurprised, maybe more surprised
than pleasantly surprised,that we promote from within.
They felt likethat's not common,
that there's nota lot of thinking
(09:26):
of staff as doinglibrarian work and building
towards librarianship.
MARLEE GIVENS (09:32):
Yeah.
And I actually wanted to giveour non-librarian faculty member
a chance to talk about that,because Raven, you have
a research scientist position.
So what's somethingthat you definitely
have carried from yourformer role into that?
RAVEN DAVIS (09:48):
I think even just going back to what Justin said,
I think I get a lotof questions that
span the gamut, liketechnical, research, et cetera.
And being able to hone in onwhat people are actually asking
is a skill that I had to growbeing in Public Services.
(10:10):
So that's definitelysomething that I've taken.
I think it makes me a lotmore helpful to people
who are reaching out to me.
And so I think that'spretty general.
But as a research scientist, youget a lot of research questions
and people who are lookingfor a lot of different things.
And so that's definitelybeen really helpful.
CHARLIE BENNETT (10:27):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And we will be back with more ontransferable skills for career
transitions in the libraryprofession after a music set.
MARLEE GIVENS (10:37):
File this set under Z710.P4.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
"I Know How To Do It" byNaomi and Her Handsome Devils.
(10:58):
And before that, "I've Gotthe Skill" by Jackie Ross.
Songs about the skillsthat pay the bills.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
FRED RASCOE (11:10):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And today's show is calledYou Can Take It With You.
ALEX MCGEE (11:16):
Our guests are Danielle Evans, Justin Ellis,
Karen Manning, and Raven Davis,all members of the Georgia Tech
Library faculty.
MARLEE GIVENS (11:23):
So in our first segment,
we talked about what youdo now compared to what you
did previously at the library.
And I'd now like totalk more generally
about a stereotype in theacademic library profession
that in order to getahead in the profession,
you have to move.
You have to changeinstitutions and essentially
grow your skills elsewhere.
(11:44):
And maybe after doingthat, you can come back
to where you started.
So, Danielle, is that somethingthat you have also heard?
Something that you heard as youwere sort of coming up and going
to library school?
DANIELLE EVANS (11:55):
Oh, definitely.
When I started at GeorgiaTech, I was about a year
out from graduating with my MLS.
And I started here andthought, man, I'm already
at the best institution.
How am I going togo somewhere else?
I was really--
(12:16):
I kind of felt this bittersweetfeeling that I really
wanted to pursuemy dream of being
a librarian at anacademic institution,
but also having this idea thatit wasn't going to be possible
because I already startedin another position
(12:36):
at Georgia Tech.
And so I do think thatstereotype was just
in the back of mymind in talking
with people in grad school.
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:47):
Were you directly advised by anybody
that you would have to leave?
Like, that's great thatyou're at Georgia Tech,
but you're going to have togo somewhere else once you
graduate.
DANIELLE EVANS (12:55):
No, I don't think I was directly told that,
but I do remember beingin a group discussion
in one of my classes andgiving the intro and saying,
I work in publicservices at Georgia Tech.
And somebody replying andsaying, oh, that's awesome.
So you could easilyend up at-- and listed
(13:20):
about 15 other schools.
None of them were Georgia Tech.
So I was like, yeah,yeah, that's true.
I could end up atsomewhere else university.
MARLEE GIVENS (13:31):
Yeah.
I mean, is that-- so it'sbeen a while, I think,
Justin, since you werein library school.
But do you remembergetting that same advice?
JUSTIN ELLIS (13:37):
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
I had probably threedifferent supervisors
tell me that, I think.
When I got my firstgraduate degree,
I heard that from a coupleof different supervisors.
When I got my secondgraduate degree,
I heard that again,a little more
emphatically, that youreally have to consider that.
But I loved what I was doing,and I loved the campus.
(13:59):
I loved our library.
So I wanted to hang on to seeif I could continue in some form
or fashion.
CHARLIE BENNETT: So did you two-- (14:06):
undefined
I mean, I know youdid this separately,
but you two justfight the stereotype?
Did you just sayI'm not doing it?
Like, how did you--
how did you get through this?
DANIELLE EVANS (14:19):
I think I was too new into the profession
to get jaded.
CHARLIE BENNETT (14:30):
They call that naive strength.
DANIELLE EVANS (14:32):
Yeah.
I had a lot of hope.
I got really lucky inthat I was able to apply
for this position that wasbrand new six months after I
walked across the stageand got my diploma.
So there wasn't a lotof time in between
(14:53):
for me to considerother options.
I think that had I had alonger stretch of time between,
I don't know whatI would have done,
but I like to say that Iwould have had the same hope
and perseverance tostay at Georgia Tech.
JUSTIN ELLIS (15:18):
Well, the thing, too,
is I had so many opportunitiesto grow my skills.
And within the past fewyears, in particular,
with our portfolio projectmanagement process,
being able to lead projectsas a project manager,
work across cross silosand integrate skill
sets with other folksacross the library.
(15:41):
And also our partnershipprogram and public
services, where we werepaired with faculty members
and worked through--
Raven and I worked indata visualization.
I think I can look at everyonein this room just about
and say we've worked on somesort of project together.
Danielle and I built anarticulate course together,
so a lot of stuff.
Of course, Karenand I have worked
(16:01):
on many differentprojects over the years.
So all of these littleleveling up opportunities
that sort ofculminated in, oh, I
have these skill setsand these relationships
that I can now leveragein a faculty position.
MARLEE GIVENS (16:19):
Raven, you don't have an MLIS.
You have a master'sin analytics,
but from Georgia Tech.
I have told people that itseems like Georgia Tech does
like to hire their own.
Is that something thatyou remember hearing when
you were in the OMS program?
Or did you I guessI'm just wondering,
did you picture yourselfstaying at Georgia Tech?
(16:41):
Or when you werein that program,
were you kind oflooking all around?
RAVEN DAVIS (16:46):
I definitely did not picture myself
staying at Georgia Tech.
The library didn't haveany positions like that
when I was in school.
It was like the last year,I think, that this position
was even created.
And that's reallykind of, I think--
leadership was reallyworking to build out
these types of researchfaculty positions.
(17:07):
So I have the first researchfaculty position in the library.
But since that did not existwhen I first started school,
I was definitely thinking, oh,I'm going to have to leave,
which I was really notlooking forward to.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:17):
We're almost at the end of the segment,
so I don't want toopen a can of worms,
but did people tell you, hey,this new position is coming
and we know you'redoing the degree?
RAVEN DAVIS (17:26):
Yes, they did.
Yes, they were seeking me out.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:29):
Yeah, yeah.
All these stories areabout cultivating the staff
within the library.
It's nice to hear.
MARLEE GIVENS (17:38):
It is nice to hear.
You are listening toLost in the Stacks.
And we'll talk moreabout transferable skills
for library careers onthe left side of the hour.
[ROCK MUSIC]
CLIFF LANDIS (17:59):
Hi, this is Cliff Landis, Digital Curation
Archivist at the GeorgiaTech Library and Archives.
And you are listening to Lost inthe Stacks, the research library
rock 'n roll radio show.
That's a lot harderto roll off the tongue
than I would have thought.
(18:19):
WREK, Atlanta.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:24):
Today's show is called You Can Take It With You,
or You Can Take It With You,or You Can Take It With You!
We're talking about thebenefit of transferable skills
for library careers.
We're also tryingto bust the myth
that you have to leave whereyou are in order to grow.
MARLEE GIVENS (18:41):
In a 2023 issue of College and Research
Libraries News, librarians AnniePho and Dustin Fife published
a column entitled "TheCost of Librarianship,
Relocating for Workand Finding Community."
Their conversation coveredmoving for their careers
and, as they put it,the problematic norms
that librarianship andhigher education reinforce.
ALEX MCGEE (19:03):
Both of these librarians
received the advice thatwillingness to relocate
was essential for career growth.
Annie said, I've moved to fourlibraries, three states, five
cities and seven apartments.
And Dustin, similarly,describes frequent moves
to advance his career.
He goes on to say--
CHARLIE BENNETT: "However, the more I (19:20):
undefined
think about myprofessional path,
I realize how problematicthat advice is
and how it recreatesprivilege in our field,
especially on the academicside of librarianship.
My positionality--"excuse me, "as a white,
cisgendered librarian inmanagement positions has allowed
me to thrive inthese situations.
But I know that othershave been kept out,
(19:42):
and I wonder how we canmove away from some of these
practices."
MARLEE GIVENS (19:45):
Annie adds, "That advice to move anywhere
for a job could take avery heavy toll on someone
to be the only person ofcolor in their library,
and then when they leave work,to be in an area that might be
hostile toward BIPOCor trans folks,
or where women have limitedautonomy over their own bodies.
Now, I would caution newprofessionals to make sure
(20:06):
wherever they go, they havea safety network in place
or a community to support them."
ALEX MCGEE (20:11):
Dustin and Annie call
on leaders in the professionto consider the emotional toll
of this typical advice and tooffer more support for library
workers, includingmoving stipends, tuition
support, and internal mechanismsfor advancement and growth.
Dustin concludes--
CHARLIE BENNETT (20:25):
"I want librarianship
to support morelibrary workers, many
who have not been giventhe opportunities I have.
So moving should be one way foradvancement, not the only way."
And as you unpack yourbag, you can file this set
under LB2362.G7T73.
(20:51):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALEX MCGEE (20:57):
That was "I Can Help" by Billy Swan.
And before that, "SoftSkills" by Take Turns.
Songs about recognizing theexpertise of those around you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:08):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And our show today is calledYou Can Take It With You.
Our guests are all new,or new-ish, members
of the Georgia TechLibrary faculty.
Danielle Evans is theAffordable Learning Librarian.
Justin Ellis is the DigitalLearning and Instruction
librarian.
Karen Manning is the StudentExperience Librarian, and Raven
Davis, not a librarian, but ascientist, research scientist
(21:31):
in data analytics.
You're all here because you'redoing a conference presentation,
right?
Basically pullingthese ideas together.
Now, we've been making ourown show out of these ideas,
but I'd like to know what'sthe push in the conference
presentation?
What are you trying to do?
Karen, will you-- oh, becauseof the look on your face,
(21:53):
I'm going to make you do it.
Tell us about this presentation.
What's the thesis?
What are you trying to say?
KAREN MANNING (21:59):
Well, we all--
Danielle, Justin andRaven and myself-- we
were having conversations, andwe really, really just thought
about our trajectories.
And we were just comparingthem with each other.
And then the a-ha moment cameand we realized, and we--
it was more gratitude of beingable to have the opportunity
to have these-- be presentedwith these positions.
(22:23):
And so we were in gratitude,and we thought of a way
to maybe talk about it.
And that's how we thought aboutthe conference presentation,
is to talk about howwe got to where we was
and then to also pointabout leadership in the fact
that they took us and felt thevalue in what we were doing
and thought it was worthy ofgiving us those positions.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:43):
Do you feel like you
can get other staffmembers to recognize
that this is how it can be?
Do you imagine that there'sa lot of people out there
who don't thinkthey can do this,
and you want to get them going?
KAREN MANNING: Absolutely, absolutely. (22:58):
undefined
I think this willhelp motivate people
and it will give people an idea.
And what I-- basically,it would be great
if leadership makes surethat they pay attention
to this kind of a conversationand this kind of discussion
and this type of careerladder for their employees.
And that's where we make surethat we notate it and point it
(23:21):
out and made that definitelya part of something that
is needed, is theleadership portion.
So being able to talk aboutthe leadership portion
and having thoseenvision these newer,
evolving roles fortheir employees,
it has to come fromthat standpoint also.
CHARLIE BENNETT (23:40):
So I want to open it up to the other folks
about that "leadership needsto hear this" kind of thing.
I don't want to make a jokeabout you being aggressive,
but clearly there is somechange that you're pushing for.
RAVEN DAVIS (23:54):
Yeah, I think that we
have a lot of successstories in our library.
And I think that, I mean, whenI first started eight years ago,
I think that the hope thatDanielle was talking about
was nonexistent.
I think that there wasa much different idea.
And I think that new leadershiphas definitely changed the hope.
(24:17):
I think that it's changed a lotof people's career trajectories.
I think we have a lot ofsuccess stories of staff
who have developed skillswhile they were staff,
and were able to getfaculty positions.
And yeah, I think it'sbeen a model that's
really worked for us.
DANIELLE EVANS (24:33):
And I'll just add to that,
I think that it's also importantto note that all of us,
even though we startedin public-facing roles
in kind of the samearea, we are all
in different areas as faculty.
Now I'm in Technical Services.
Justin's in academic engagement.
Raven is a researchscientist, and Karen
(24:54):
is our Student Success,Student Experience Librarian.
So we are all indifferent areas and have
used those skillsthat were curated
by our roles in public servicesand other public-facing roles
in the library, andbeen able to turn those
into more specifictrajectories in other areas.
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:17):
Justin, you've been witness
to this for a long time, right?
JUSTIN ELLIS (25:20):
Yes.
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:21):
You've been at the library
a long time, ashave I. So I'm not--
I'm not dragging anybody.
Have you seen a change in howour library leadership has
cultivated after theystarted cultivating?
JUSTIN ELLIS (25:35):
A significant change.
And like my colleagues, I feelan enormous amount of gratitude,
especially overthe past few years,
because we have leaderswho have stopped
to identify andassess skill sets
and build these career ladders.
So the mentorship that I'vereceived, like over the years,
(25:59):
these are all wonderful thingsthat have helped me along
on my career ladder.
And there was a period whereI was content in my position,
but knew that--
I guess the common thought wasthat I would have to leave.
And I didn't want to leave.
I had worked tobuild a career here.
(26:24):
And even though Ithought I could leverage
a lot of those skillsin a different role,
yeah, the opportunitiesslowly became present.
MARLEE GIVENS: And, Justin, you're (26:35):
undefined
one of the folks inthe room who's actually
gotten a glimpse of whatpeople outside of Georgia Tech
think about all of this.
I was wondering if yousee any signs of hope
out in the profession at large.
JUSTIN ELLIS (26:49):
Well, I do see signs of hope.
I will say thatin a conversation
with a former supervisorand leader not too long ago,
we at Georgia Tech havealways kind of approached
things a little bitdifferently than some
of our peer institutions.
And there are peer institutionsthat really reinforce
(27:09):
that divide betweenparaprofessional or staff
and front-facing rolesand the faculty roles.
So I think even for ourcolleagues in staff roles to see
these success stories and tosee how our folks have advanced
their skill sets, pursuedgraduate education,
(27:32):
and taken on differentleadership roles--
whether it's projectleadership, other skill sets,
and other service areas--
it builds morale.
And you start amomentum where folks are
excited to build their skills.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:47):
So if there's someone listening right now--
and I open this to everybodybecause we got two minutes left.
If there's someonelistening right now
and they're staff at a libraryand this is blowing their mind,
is there anything youwant to tell them?
Anything that you'dlike to remind them
of before they go talk totheir manager immediately?
You're laughing, Justin.
I think you should lead off.
(28:07):
JUSTIN ELLIS (28:09):
It's a good question to ask.
And I mean, maybethat is a conversation
that starts with your manager.
What does my careerpath look like?
How can I develop new skills?
What skills would youlike to cultivate,
or what should Ifocus on cultivating?
And how do I do that?
How do I partner?
(28:30):
Most of us have,in our staff roles,
had partnered withlibrary faculty members
and gotten a sense of afaculty role might entail,
whether it's a teachingrole or a research role.
So you have a lot of folks,when you start sort of prodding,
I think-- or maybeannoying people-- just
(28:51):
to ask the questions.
And you can startto change mindsets.
I think a lot of-- in alot of academic libraries,
leaders want tocultivate skill sets
and want to build professionaldevelopment avenues.
But oftentimes, there iskind of an older model
of thinking where we'relooking at new positions,
(29:11):
hybrid positions, differenttypes of technologies,
especially in the ageof AI that I think there
are a lot of opportunities.
So you can assessthe landscape where
you are and see what youcan do to climb that ladder.
MARLEE GIVENS (29:28):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And you have beenlistening to our interview
with Georgia Tech Librarycolleagues Danielle
Evans, Justin Ellis, KarenManning and Raven Davis.
And thank you all somuch for joining us.
CHARLIE BENNETT: I will remind you (29:40):
undefined
that you are pastand future guests.
File this set underHF5382.75.U6R53.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(30:00):
You just heard "There OnlyOnce" by The Soundcarriers.
And before that, "It'sYour Move" by Howard Tate.
Those are songs about thedecision to leave or stay put.
[ROCK MUSIC]
MARLEE GIVENS (30:22):
Today's show is called You Can Take It With You.
And before we rollthe credits, I
wanted to askeveryone, what do you
see as your maintransferable skill?
What's something thatyou brought to every job,
maybe even without planning to?
Mine is patience.
I've had more thanone boss comment
on my patient and calmdemeanor in evaluation letters,
so I guess I don'tbring the drama.
(30:44):
I guess that's helpful, Fred?
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:45):
Some of us think so, yeah.
FRED RASCOE (30:47):
Yeah, that sounds helpful.
Yeah, self-evaluationis not my strong suit.
I'm going to venturea guess, flexibility.
That'll be my answer.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:55):
All right.
Alex?
ALEX MCGEE (30:58):
So I'm going to say, I've
gotten this in myperformance reviews,
that I'm very good at buildingrelationships with folks,
whether it's students orpeople in our department.
I can build trust with folks,and that has served me well
over the years.
Yeah.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:16):
You all probably know this.
I can talk aboutanything as long
as we need to talk about it,until we all understand it.
JUSTIN ELLIS (31:25):
I kind of agree with Alex.
For me, I think it's-- andMarlee and I have talked about
this-- collegiality.
Like, I like--I'm a team player.
I like working ingroups and teams,
as hopefully some folksin here can attest to.
I think I'm likable.
I think-- [LAUGHS] I'm justthrowing that out there.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:43):
Raven?
RAVEN DAVIS (31:44):
I'm going to say problem-solving.
That is a very genericjob interview answer.
But yeah.
DANIELLE EVANS (31:51):
Along the same lines as Raven,
I find myself to be an idealist.
So I like findingsolutions for things
and having big picture ideasfor everything that I do.
KAREN MANNING (32:02):
For me, it's interpersonal skills.
And I also am veryinfluential with people,
and people always want me to dothings because of those skills.
And so, sometimes Ihave to pull back.
I may be doing it too well.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:18):
We have a show about saying no, librarians
saying no, that might be--
OK, anyway.
Let's roll the credits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALEX MCGEE (32:28):
Lost in the Stacks is
a collaboration between WREKAtlanta and the Georgia Tech
Library.
Written and produced byAlex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:37):
Legal counsel and a clear path
to promotion basedon cultivated skills
were provided by the BurrusIntellectual Property Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
MARLEE GIVENS (32:45):
Special thanks to Danielle, Justin, Karen,
and Raven for being on the show.
Thanks to the GeorgiaTech Library leadership
for investing in our people.
And thanks, as always, toeach and every one of you
for listening.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:57):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
ALEX MCGEE (33:08):
On next week's show, it's time for another
installment of our series,"There's an Archivist for That?"
And I'm giving outno spoilers today.
You've got to tunein to find out.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:17):
FBI.
ALEX MCGEE (33:18):
No.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:18):
CIA.
ALEX MCGEE (33:19):
No.
You should just stop now.
I'm not going togive away anything.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:22):
Sewage systems.
ALEX MCGEE (33:23):
No.
FRED RASCOE (33:24):
We don't even know.
It's suspenseful.
OK time for our last song today.
We're lucky enough atthe Georgia Tech Library
to have folks withskills and expertise
who want to stick aroundand help our library.
But as we've heardtoday, even though they
may be staying inthe same library,
their careers arealways on the move.
So let's close with "Born toMove" by The Surprise Sisters.
(33:47):
And have a greatweekend, everyone.
[THE SURPRISE SISTERS, "BORN TOMOVE"]
(00:01):
Some of us don't expressour skills very adequately.
Are you able topull it out of them
and get it into anattention-getting resume?
I think to the extent we cando that within these sessions,
we definitely focus on that.
What you say is 100% true.
So many times aprofessional will say,
but that's justwhat I do in my job.
(00:23):
What's the big deal?
And I say it is abig deal because that
is a strength you have.
And this isn't the time tohide it under a bushel basket.
[ROCK MUSIC]
CHARLIE BENNETT (00:54):
You are listening to WREK Atlanta,
and this is Lost in the Stacks,the research library rock 'n
roll radio show.
I'm Charlie Bennettin the studio with--
and normally I say some nameshere, but it is crowded.
The oxygen level isstarting to drop.
I can feel it.
I'm in the studiowith a big old crowd.
Each week on Lost in theStacks, we pick a theme
and then use it to create amix of music and library talk.
(01:17):
Whichever you are herefor, we hope you dig it.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:19):
And our show today is called,
"You Can Take It With You."
ALEX MCGEE (01:23):
OK, I was wondering where we
were going to put the emphasis.
I thought maybe it was, You.
Can take.
It with you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:29):
Oh, Alex.
FRED RASCOE (01:30):
Right.
You got to put the em-phay-sison the right syl-ab-ble.
I was thinking youcan take it with you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:36):
I honestly thought it
was, you can take it with you.
MARLEE GIVENS (01:39):
Yeah, actually, that one also makes sense.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:42):
Oh, good.
ALEX MCGEE (01:42):
Yeah.
Because it is what we'regoing to be talking
about with our guest today.
CHARLIE BENNETT (01:46):
OK, so to quote Faith No More, what is it?
MARLEE GIVENS (01:50):
It refers to the universal skills
that we acquire at work,things that are not necessarily
in our job descriptionsor hard skills,
like coding or cataloging.
We often call these portableskills, or transferable skills,
because they apply inmultiple job contexts.
They carry from job to job.
ALEX MCGEE (02:08):
Skills like communication, problem solving,
adaptability, leadership.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:11):
Don't forget creativity, public speaking,
and improvisation.
MARLEE GIVENS (02:15):
Exactly.
And our guests today arefour fairly new members
of the Georgia TechLibrary faculty
who rose through the ranks froma variety of public-facing staff
positions to wherethey are today.
But they haven'tforgotten their roots,
and they continue to applythe transferable skills
that they acquired in earlierroles to do what they do now.
FRED RASCOE (02:33):
And our songs today are
about skills, the peoplewho have those skills,
and whether one needs to stayput or move on to really put
those skills to use.
That's a differentdecision for everyone.
But today we'retalking to some folks
who have decided, for now, thatthis must be the place here
at Georgia Tech.
So let's start with "This MustBe The Place (Naive Melody)"
(02:56):
by Talking Heads.
Right here on Lostin the Stacks.
CHARLIE BENNETT (02:59):
It's a love song for a lamp.
[TALKING HEADS, "THIS MUSTBE THE PLACE (NAIVE MELODY)"]
MARLEE GIVENS (03:19):
"This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody)"
by Talking Heads.
Our show today is YouCan Take It With You.
And we are pleased to welcomesome returning guests--
Karen Manning, Raven Davis,Justin Ellis and Danielle Evans.
And I would like for everyone--
because you all havesomething in common, right?
Part of the reasonthat you're here
(03:41):
is that you have kindof coalesced as a group
around making the transitionfrom a paraprofessional staff
role to a faculty positionwithin the library,
and you're now all part of theGeorgia Tech Library faculty.
So what I'd like to do as you'reintroducing yourselves is just
to share, what was the staffrole that you moved out of?
(04:03):
And then what is yourfaculty position now?
And we'll start with Karen.
KAREN MANNING (04:07):
So hello, everyone.
I'm Karen Manning and I'm theStudent Experience Librarian
at the library.
My role actually started inthe public-facing position
in the biggest--
the largest library in theworld, the Library of Congress.
And then it transitionedhere with my first position
at the Georgia Tech Libraryat the circulation desk.
(04:29):
And I just want to make adistinction that at the time
it was called PublicServices, which
now, if we referenceAccess Services,
is also the same thing.
And so I worked in thatposition for years,
and then I transitioned intoTechnical Services, which now I
am in the faculty position asa Student Experience Librarian.
RAVEN DAVIS (04:51):
This is Raven Davis.
I started about eight yearsago in Public Services,
and I'm now a researchscientist in Data Analytics.
JUSTIN ELLIS (05:02):
Hi, I'm Justin Ellis.
I am currently theDigital Learning
and Instruction Librarian.
This month I am celebratingmy 18th year at Georgia Tech.
I've been in my current rolefor a little over two years.
And I'm probably best known--
I've held a few different PublicServices roles, but probably
best known as Public Serviceslead and service owner
(05:24):
and co-manager for ourequipment-lending or gadget
service.
DANIELLE EVANS (05:30):
And I'm Danielle Evans.
I started in public servicesat Georgia Tech in 2022.
And I am now the AffordableLearning Librarian
in Technical Services.
MARLEE GIVENS (05:42):
All right.
So yeah, everyone has had, Iguess, some time on the desk.
So part of what we wantedto talk about today
was just this idea ofthese transferable skills
that you sort of grewin your previous roles.
And you now-- Ithink you all feel
(06:03):
like you have broughtsomething of that
into your current experience.
So does anyonewant to talk about
what's a skill that comes tomind when you think about that?
Yeah, Justin.
JUSTIN ELLIS (06:19):
I'll say listening skills,
having spent many hours on aninfo desk or circulation desk,
listening to the needs ofstudents or faculty members
and just trying to understand,even if they don't necessarily
know how to articulateit in the moment.
Your job is to try and askthose probing questions
and figure out thereference interview.
CHARLIE BENNETT (06:43):
And I think we should
dig into that justa little bit more.
Because obviously,listening is something
many people have to do.
What's the particular thingabout that at-the-desk listening
that feels different thansay, research, consultation
or listening in a meeting?
JUSTIN ELLIS (06:58):
Very time sensitive.
You are in the moment, so youhave to really develop or hone
those listening skills to hearbeyond the initial question,
and sometimes probea little bit deeper.
And again, you onlyhave maybe a couple
of minutes to get towhat the real need is.
(07:19):
MARLEE GIVENS (07:22):
And so what's the kind
of listening that you feellike you're doing now?
JUSTIN ELLIS (07:25):
That's a good question.
I mean, probably oneof the biggest skills--
and I'm a shy person.
Some people maynot believe that.
But listening andtalking to folks, too--
one of my sort of thingsthat I worked on a lot,
even in my gadgets role--
was listening tofaculty and reaching out
to faculty, which issomething that I have
(07:46):
to do now on a regular basis.
So understandingwhat faculty are
trying to do with particularprojects, what technology needs
they have, what are the learningoutcomes for their students.
MARLEE GIVENS (07:59):
And Karen, I think you
might have raised your hand?
Is there somethingthat you wanted to add?
KAREN MANNING (08:05):
Well, I wanted to add those types of skills
were skills thatwere already being
conducted as staff members.
And that's a perspectiveI want to discuss,
is that staff have always beendoing things that traditionally
are supposedly librarian roles.
We do informationliteracy courses,
(08:28):
we teach, there's instruction,collection development.
And so differentroles that-- research,
managing other people hasalways been a part of the roles.
It's just never been correlatedas far as the librarianship.
MARLEE GIVENS (08:45):
Yeah.
And I think we've talked aboutthat on the show a little bit,
just--
and maybe in a waythat Georgia Tech is
kind of leading the way increating these opportunities
or distributing the work ina way that's not necessarily
the traditional, facultydo this and staff do that.
CHARLIE BENNETT (09:05):
I was in a lunch with a search--
with a candidate.
I was helping a search committeeout, talking to a job candidate
at the Georgia Tech Library.
And they were really pleasantlysurprised, maybe more surprised
than pleasantly surprised,that we promote from within.
They felt likethat's not common,
that there's nota lot of thinking
(09:26):
of staff as doinglibrarian work and building
towards librarianship.
MARLEE GIVENS (09:32):
Yeah.
And I actually wanted to giveour non-librarian faculty member
a chance to talk about that,because Raven, you have
a research scientist position.
So what's somethingthat you definitely
have carried from yourformer role into that?
RAVEN DAVIS (09:48):
I think even just going back to what Justin said,
I think I get a lotof questions that
span the gamut, liketechnical, research, et cetera.
And being able to hone in onwhat people are actually asking
is a skill that I had to growbeing in Public Services.
(10:10):
So that's definitelysomething that I've taken.
I think it makes me a lotmore helpful to people
who are reaching out to me.
And so I think that'spretty general.
But as a research scientist, youget a lot of research questions
and people who are lookingfor a lot of different things.
And so that's definitelybeen really helpful.
CHARLIE BENNETT (10:27):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And we will be back with more ontransferable skills for career
transitions in the libraryprofession after a music set.
MARLEE GIVENS (10:37):
File this set under Z710.P4.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
"I Know How To Do It" byNaomi and Her Handsome Devils.
(10:58):
And before that, "I've Gotthe Skill" by Jackie Ross.
Songs about the skillsthat pay the bills.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
FRED RASCOE (11:10):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And today's show is calledYou Can Take It With You.
ALEX MCGEE (11:16):
Our guests are Danielle Evans, Justin Ellis,
Karen Manning, and Raven Davis,all members of the Georgia Tech
Library faculty.
MARLEE GIVENS (11:23):
So in our first segment,
we talked about what youdo now compared to what you
did previously at the library.
And I'd now like totalk more generally
about a stereotype in theacademic library profession
that in order to getahead in the profession,
you have to move.
You have to changeinstitutions and essentially
grow your skills elsewhere.
(11:44):
And maybe after doingthat, you can come back
to where you started.
So, Danielle, is that somethingthat you have also heard?
Something that you heard as youwere sort of coming up and going
to library school?
DANIELLE EVANS (11:55):
Oh, definitely.
When I started at GeorgiaTech, I was about a year
out from graduating with my MLS.
And I started here andthought, man, I'm already
at the best institution.
How am I going togo somewhere else?
I was really--
(12:16):
I kind of felt this bittersweetfeeling that I really
wanted to pursuemy dream of being
a librarian at anacademic institution,
but also having this idea thatit wasn't going to be possible
because I already startedin another position
(12:36):
at Georgia Tech.
And so I do think thatstereotype was just
in the back of mymind in talking
with people in grad school.
CHARLIE BENNETT (12:47):
Were you directly advised by anybody
that you would have to leave?
Like, that's great thatyou're at Georgia Tech,
but you're going to have togo somewhere else once you
graduate.
DANIELLE EVANS (12:55):
No, I don't think I was directly told that,
but I do remember beingin a group discussion
in one of my classes andgiving the intro and saying,
I work in publicservices at Georgia Tech.
And somebody replying andsaying, oh, that's awesome.
So you could easilyend up at-- and listed
(13:20):
about 15 other schools.
None of them were Georgia Tech.
So I was like, yeah,yeah, that's true.
I could end up atsomewhere else university.
MARLEE GIVENS (13:31):
Yeah.
I mean, is that-- so it'sbeen a while, I think,
Justin, since you werein library school.
But do you remembergetting that same advice?
JUSTIN ELLIS (13:37):
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
I had probably threedifferent supervisors
tell me that, I think.
When I got my firstgraduate degree,
I heard that from a coupleof different supervisors.
When I got my secondgraduate degree,
I heard that again,a little more
emphatically, that youreally have to consider that.
But I loved what I was doing,and I loved the campus.
(13:59):
I loved our library.
So I wanted to hang on to seeif I could continue in some form
or fashion.
CHARLIE BENNETT: So did you two-- (14:06):
undefined
I mean, I know youdid this separately,
but you two justfight the stereotype?
Did you just sayI'm not doing it?
Like, how did you--
how did you get through this?
DANIELLE EVANS (14:19):
I think I was too new into the profession
to get jaded.
CHARLIE BENNETT (14:30):
They call that naive strength.
DANIELLE EVANS (14:32):
Yeah.
I had a lot of hope.
I got really lucky inthat I was able to apply
for this position that wasbrand new six months after I
walked across the stageand got my diploma.
So there wasn't a lotof time in between
(14:53):
for me to considerother options.
I think that had I had alonger stretch of time between,
I don't know whatI would have done,
but I like to say that Iwould have had the same hope
and perseverance tostay at Georgia Tech.
JUSTIN ELLIS (15:18):
Well, the thing, too,
is I had so many opportunitiesto grow my skills.
And within the past fewyears, in particular,
with our portfolio projectmanagement process,
being able to lead projectsas a project manager,
work across cross silosand integrate skill
sets with other folksacross the library.
(15:41):
And also our partnershipprogram and public
services, where we werepaired with faculty members
and worked through--
Raven and I worked indata visualization.
I think I can look at everyonein this room just about
and say we've worked on somesort of project together.
Danielle and I built anarticulate course together,
so a lot of stuff.
Of course, Karenand I have worked
(16:01):
on many differentprojects over the years.
So all of these littleleveling up opportunities
that sort ofculminated in, oh, I
have these skill setsand these relationships
that I can now leveragein a faculty position.
MARLEE GIVENS (16:19):
Raven, you don't have an MLIS.
You have a master'sin analytics,
but from Georgia Tech.
I have told people that itseems like Georgia Tech does
like to hire their own.
Is that something thatyou remember hearing when
you were in the OMS program?
Or did you I guessI'm just wondering,
did you picture yourselfstaying at Georgia Tech?
(16:41):
Or when you werein that program,
were you kind oflooking all around?
RAVEN DAVIS (16:46):
I definitely did not picture myself
staying at Georgia Tech.
The library didn't haveany positions like that
when I was in school.
It was like the last year,I think, that this position
was even created.
And that's reallykind of, I think--
leadership was reallyworking to build out
these types of researchfaculty positions.
(17:07):
So I have the first researchfaculty position in the library.
But since that did not existwhen I first started school,
I was definitely thinking, oh,I'm going to have to leave,
which I was really notlooking forward to.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:17):
We're almost at the end of the segment,
so I don't want toopen a can of worms,
but did people tell you, hey,this new position is coming
and we know you'redoing the degree?
RAVEN DAVIS (17:26):
Yes, they did.
Yes, they were seeking me out.
CHARLIE BENNETT (17:29):
Yeah, yeah.
All these stories areabout cultivating the staff
within the library.
It's nice to hear.
MARLEE GIVENS (17:38):
It is nice to hear.
You are listening toLost in the Stacks.
And we'll talk moreabout transferable skills
for library careers onthe left side of the hour.
[ROCK MUSIC]
CLIFF LANDIS (17:59):
Hi, this is Cliff Landis, Digital Curation
Archivist at the GeorgiaTech Library and Archives.
And you are listening to Lost inthe Stacks, the research library
rock 'n roll radio show.
That's a lot harderto roll off the tongue
than I would have thought.
(18:19):
WREK, Atlanta.
CHARLIE BENNETT (18:24):
Today's show is called You Can Take It With You,
or You Can Take It With You,or You Can Take It With You!
We're talking about thebenefit of transferable skills
for library careers.
We're also tryingto bust the myth
that you have to leave whereyou are in order to grow.
MARLEE GIVENS (18:41):
In a 2023 issue of College and Research
Libraries News, librarians AnniePho and Dustin Fife published
a column entitled "TheCost of Librarianship,
Relocating for Workand Finding Community."
Their conversation coveredmoving for their careers
and, as they put it,the problematic norms
that librarianship andhigher education reinforce.
ALEX MCGEE (19:03):
Both of these librarians
received the advice thatwillingness to relocate
was essential for career growth.
Annie said, I've moved to fourlibraries, three states, five
cities and seven apartments.
And Dustin, similarly,describes frequent moves
to advance his career.
He goes on to say--
CHARLIE BENNETT: "However, the more I (19:20):
undefined
think about myprofessional path,
I realize how problematicthat advice is
and how it recreatesprivilege in our field,
especially on the academicside of librarianship.
My positionality--"excuse me, "as a white,
cisgendered librarian inmanagement positions has allowed
me to thrive inthese situations.
But I know that othershave been kept out,
(19:42):
and I wonder how we canmove away from some of these
practices."
MARLEE GIVENS (19:45):
Annie adds, "That advice to move anywhere
for a job could take avery heavy toll on someone
to be the only person ofcolor in their library,
and then when they leave work,to be in an area that might be
hostile toward BIPOCor trans folks,
or where women have limitedautonomy over their own bodies.
Now, I would caution newprofessionals to make sure
(20:06):
wherever they go, they havea safety network in place
or a community to support them."
ALEX MCGEE (20:11):
Dustin and Annie call
on leaders in the professionto consider the emotional toll
of this typical advice and tooffer more support for library
workers, includingmoving stipends, tuition
support, and internal mechanismsfor advancement and growth.
Dustin concludes--
CHARLIE BENNETT (20:25):
"I want librarianship
to support morelibrary workers, many
who have not been giventhe opportunities I have.
So moving should be one way foradvancement, not the only way."
And as you unpack yourbag, you can file this set
under LB2362.G7T73.
(20:51):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALEX MCGEE (20:57):
That was "I Can Help" by Billy Swan.
And before that, "SoftSkills" by Take Turns.
Songs about recognizing theexpertise of those around you.
CHARLIE BENNETT (21:08):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And our show today is calledYou Can Take It With You.
Our guests are all new,or new-ish, members
of the Georgia TechLibrary faculty.
Danielle Evans is theAffordable Learning Librarian.
Justin Ellis is the DigitalLearning and Instruction
librarian.
Karen Manning is the StudentExperience Librarian, and Raven
Davis, not a librarian, but ascientist, research scientist
(21:31):
in data analytics.
You're all here because you'redoing a conference presentation,
right?
Basically pullingthese ideas together.
Now, we've been making ourown show out of these ideas,
but I'd like to know what'sthe push in the conference
presentation?
What are you trying to do?
Karen, will you-- oh, becauseof the look on your face,
(21:53):
I'm going to make you do it.
Tell us about this presentation.
What's the thesis?
What are you trying to say?
KAREN MANNING (21:59):
Well, we all--
Danielle, Justin andRaven and myself-- we
were having conversations, andwe really, really just thought
about our trajectories.
And we were just comparingthem with each other.
And then the a-ha moment cameand we realized, and we--
it was more gratitude of beingable to have the opportunity
to have these-- be presentedwith these positions.
(22:23):
And so we were in gratitude,and we thought of a way
to maybe talk about it.
And that's how we thought aboutthe conference presentation,
is to talk about howwe got to where we was
and then to also pointabout leadership in the fact
that they took us and felt thevalue in what we were doing
and thought it was worthy ofgiving us those positions.
CHARLIE BENNETT (22:43):
Do you feel like you
can get other staffmembers to recognize
that this is how it can be?
Do you imagine that there'sa lot of people out there
who don't thinkthey can do this,
and you want to get them going?
KAREN MANNING: Absolutely, absolutely. (22:58):
undefined
I think this willhelp motivate people
and it will give people an idea.
And what I-- basically,it would be great
if leadership makes surethat they pay attention
to this kind of a conversationand this kind of discussion
and this type of careerladder for their employees.
And that's where we make surethat we notate it and point it
(23:21):
out and made that definitelya part of something that
is needed, is theleadership portion.
So being able to talk aboutthe leadership portion
and having thoseenvision these newer,
evolving roles fortheir employees,
it has to come fromthat standpoint also.
CHARLIE BENNETT (23:40):
So I want to open it up to the other folks
about that "leadership needsto hear this" kind of thing.
I don't want to make a jokeabout you being aggressive,
but clearly there is somechange that you're pushing for.
RAVEN DAVIS (23:54):
Yeah, I think that we
have a lot of successstories in our library.
And I think that, I mean, whenI first started eight years ago,
I think that the hope thatDanielle was talking about
was nonexistent.
I think that there wasa much different idea.
And I think that new leadershiphas definitely changed the hope.
(24:17):
I think that it's changed a lotof people's career trajectories.
I think we have a lot ofsuccess stories of staff
who have developed skillswhile they were staff,
and were able to getfaculty positions.
And yeah, I think it'sbeen a model that's
really worked for us.
DANIELLE EVANS (24:33):
And I'll just add to that,
I think that it's also importantto note that all of us,
even though we startedin public-facing roles
in kind of the samearea, we are all
in different areas as faculty.
Now I'm in Technical Services.
Justin's in academic engagement.
Raven is a researchscientist, and Karen
(24:54):
is our Student Success,Student Experience Librarian.
So we are all indifferent areas and have
used those skillsthat were curated
by our roles in public servicesand other public-facing roles
in the library, andbeen able to turn those
into more specifictrajectories in other areas.
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:17):
Justin, you've been witness
to this for a long time, right?
JUSTIN ELLIS (25:20):
Yes.
CHARLIE BENNETT (25:21):
You've been at the library
a long time, ashave I. So I'm not--
I'm not dragging anybody.
Have you seen a change in howour library leadership has
cultivated after theystarted cultivating?
JUSTIN ELLIS (25:35):
A significant change.
And like my colleagues, I feelan enormous amount of gratitude,
especially overthe past few years,
because we have leaderswho have stopped
to identify andassess skill sets
and build these career ladders.
So the mentorship that I'vereceived, like over the years,
(25:59):
these are all wonderful thingsthat have helped me along
on my career ladder.
And there was a period whereI was content in my position,
but knew that--
I guess the common thought wasthat I would have to leave.
And I didn't want to leave.
I had worked tobuild a career here.
(26:24):
And even though Ithought I could leverage
a lot of those skillsin a different role,
yeah, the opportunitiesslowly became present.
MARLEE GIVENS: And, Justin, you're (26:35):
undefined
one of the folks inthe room who's actually
gotten a glimpse of whatpeople outside of Georgia Tech
think about all of this.
I was wondering if yousee any signs of hope
out in the profession at large.
JUSTIN ELLIS (26:49):
Well, I do see signs of hope.
I will say thatin a conversation
with a former supervisorand leader not too long ago,
we at Georgia Tech havealways kind of approached
things a little bitdifferently than some
of our peer institutions.
And there are peer institutionsthat really reinforce
(27:09):
that divide betweenparaprofessional or staff
and front-facing rolesand the faculty roles.
So I think even for ourcolleagues in staff roles to see
these success stories and tosee how our folks have advanced
their skill sets, pursuedgraduate education,
(27:32):
and taken on differentleadership roles--
whether it's projectleadership, other skill sets,
and other service areas--
it builds morale.
And you start amomentum where folks are
excited to build their skills.
CHARLIE BENNETT (27:47):
So if there's someone listening right now--
and I open this to everybodybecause we got two minutes left.
If there's someonelistening right now
and they're staff at a libraryand this is blowing their mind,
is there anything youwant to tell them?
Anything that you'dlike to remind them
of before they go talk totheir manager immediately?
You're laughing, Justin.
I think you should lead off.
(28:07):
JUSTIN ELLIS (28:09):
It's a good question to ask.
And I mean, maybethat is a conversation
that starts with your manager.
What does my careerpath look like?
How can I develop new skills?
What skills would youlike to cultivate,
or what should Ifocus on cultivating?
And how do I do that?
How do I partner?
(28:30):
Most of us have,in our staff roles,
had partnered withlibrary faculty members
and gotten a sense of afaculty role might entail,
whether it's a teachingrole or a research role.
So you have a lot of folks,when you start sort of prodding,
I think-- or maybeannoying people-- just
(28:51):
to ask the questions.
And you can startto change mindsets.
I think a lot of-- in alot of academic libraries,
leaders want tocultivate skill sets
and want to build professionaldevelopment avenues.
But oftentimes, there iskind of an older model
of thinking where we'relooking at new positions,
(29:11):
hybrid positions, differenttypes of technologies,
especially in the ageof AI that I think there
are a lot of opportunities.
So you can assessthe landscape where
you are and see what youcan do to climb that ladder.
MARLEE GIVENS (29:28):
This is Lost in the Stacks.
And you have beenlistening to our interview
with Georgia Tech Librarycolleagues Danielle
Evans, Justin Ellis, KarenManning and Raven Davis.
And thank you all somuch for joining us.
CHARLIE BENNETT: I will remind you (29:40):
undefined
that you are pastand future guests.
File this set underHF5382.75.U6R53.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(30:00):
You just heard "There OnlyOnce" by The Soundcarriers.
And before that, "It'sYour Move" by Howard Tate.
Those are songs about thedecision to leave or stay put.
[ROCK MUSIC]
MARLEE GIVENS (30:22):
Today's show is called You Can Take It With You.
And before we rollthe credits, I
wanted to askeveryone, what do you
see as your maintransferable skill?
What's something thatyou brought to every job,
maybe even without planning to?
Mine is patience.
I've had more thanone boss comment
on my patient and calmdemeanor in evaluation letters,
so I guess I don'tbring the drama.
(30:44):
I guess that's helpful, Fred?
CHARLIE BENNETT (30:45):
Some of us think so, yeah.
FRED RASCOE (30:47):
Yeah, that sounds helpful.
Yeah, self-evaluationis not my strong suit.
I'm going to venturea guess, flexibility.
That'll be my answer.
MARLEE GIVENS (30:55):
All right.
Alex?
ALEX MCGEE (30:58):
So I'm going to say, I've
gotten this in myperformance reviews,
that I'm very good at buildingrelationships with folks,
whether it's students orpeople in our department.
I can build trust with folks,and that has served me well
over the years.
Yeah.
CHARLIE BENNETT (31:16):
You all probably know this.
I can talk aboutanything as long
as we need to talk about it,until we all understand it.
JUSTIN ELLIS (31:25):
I kind of agree with Alex.
For me, I think it's-- andMarlee and I have talked about
this-- collegiality.
Like, I like--I'm a team player.
I like working ingroups and teams,
as hopefully some folksin here can attest to.
I think I'm likable.
I think-- [LAUGHS] I'm justthrowing that out there.
MARLEE GIVENS (31:43):
Raven?
RAVEN DAVIS (31:44):
I'm going to say problem-solving.
That is a very genericjob interview answer.
But yeah.
DANIELLE EVANS (31:51):
Along the same lines as Raven,
I find myself to be an idealist.
So I like findingsolutions for things
and having big picture ideasfor everything that I do.
KAREN MANNING (32:02):
For me, it's interpersonal skills.
And I also am veryinfluential with people,
and people always want me to dothings because of those skills.
And so, sometimes Ihave to pull back.
I may be doing it too well.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:18):
We have a show about saying no, librarians
saying no, that might be--
OK, anyway.
Let's roll the credits.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALEX MCGEE (32:28):
Lost in the Stacks is
a collaboration between WREKAtlanta and the Georgia Tech
Library.
Written and produced byAlex McGee, Charlie Bennett,
Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:37):
Legal counsel and a clear path
to promotion basedon cultivated skills
were provided by the BurrusIntellectual Property Law Group
in Atlanta, Georgia.
MARLEE GIVENS (32:45):
Special thanks to Danielle, Justin, Karen,
and Raven for being on the show.
Thanks to the GeorgiaTech Library leadership
for investing in our people.
And thanks, as always, toeach and every one of you
for listening.
CHARLIE BENNETT (32:57):
Our web page is library.gatech.e
du/lostinthestacks, where you'llfind our most recent episode,
a link to our podcastfeed, and a web form
if you want to getin touch with us.
ALEX MCGEE (33:08):
On next week's show, it's time for another
installment of our series,"There's an Archivist for That?"
And I'm giving outno spoilers today.
You've got to tunein to find out.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:17):
FBI.
ALEX MCGEE (33:18):
No.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:18):
CIA.
ALEX MCGEE (33:19):
No.
You should just stop now.
I'm not going togive away anything.
CHARLIE BENNETT (33:22):
Sewage systems.
ALEX MCGEE (33:23):
No.
FRED RASCOE (33:24):
We don't even know.
It's suspenseful.
OK time for our last song today.
We're lucky enough atthe Georgia Tech Library
to have folks withskills and expertise
who want to stick aroundand help our library.
But as we've heardtoday, even though they
may be staying inthe same library,
their careers arealways on the move.
So let's close with "Born toMove" by The Surprise Sisters.
(33:47):
And have a greatweekend, everyone.
[THE SURPRISE SISTERS, "BORN TOMOVE"]
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.