June 24, 2025 • 42 mins
They did the worst thing imaginable and now want you to stay in their life. Is it possible they can change? Should you give them a chance?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship. You deserve respect and kindness.
(00:07):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
Welcome to Love and Abuse. I am going to dive right into the first topic.
(00:27):
I'm hoping to address two topics today. Let me switch screens here.
This person asked me, I got through your entire Mean Workbook.
My score was 144, and that's out of 200.
So if you're familiar with the workbook, it is about the level of control, manipulation, and abuse in your relationship.
(00:48):
And it reveals a lot that you may not even realize that is abusive.
So that's the Mean Workbook that I clean to me a couple of years ago about posting pictures of me, nude pictures, on a website with stories about me.
(01:09):
He started a nasty dating profile of me to see what interest I would get.
He says he feels terrible about doing these things to me, and I'm wondering if, in your opinion, someone who does something
like this could really change, or if these are signs of antisocial personality disorder. I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
(01:35):
Wow, sometimes there are things that people do that you cannot recover from.
Putting pictures of you online, nude pictures, they are there permanently. So you are out there permanently.
You are now exposed to the world. How damaging is that?
(02:01):
So there are many ways to look at this.
One of the ways, and this is just something I'm throwing out there, I'm not saying this is how you should think about it,
but one of the ways is you are one of a billion nude photos out there, and someone may recognize you or not if they happen to chance upon your pictures. That's not an excuse.
(02:28):
I'm not saying what he did was right. It's not.
I'm just saying if there are any personal feelings, personal negative feelings that you have about this, you are going to
be forgotten as soon as you are seen.
And in this instance, being forgotten is OK.
I mean, if you didn't want these out there, which I'm assuming that's exactly what you're telling, why you're telling me this,
(02:51):
then you're going to be forgotten rather sooner than later.
It's just going to happen because people move on.
They see something, they look at it, whatever, and then they move on. They're done.
Now, if this was shared with friends and co-workers of yours, of his or whatever, that's a different story. That's pretty damaging.
(03:16):
I mean, it's damaging either way, but that's really personal.
So there's one way to look at it.
Another way, and this is pretty much related, is that it's a huge violation of your privacy, of how you want to show up in
the world and how comfortable you feel being who you are, knowing that there's this exposure out there of you that makes you very vulnerable.
(03:49):
And not everyone's going to feel this way.
Some people will feel like, yeah, you're right, Paul, there are billions of images out there and somebody may see them, somebody
may not, somebody may know you, somebody may just move on and not care.
But because there are so many images, because there is so much out there to consume, it's a pretty safe bet that you will
(04:13):
never be seen by people who know you.
I'm not saying it can't happen or it won't happen, but the chances are typically slim unless the links are shared with people you know. Again, it's an unacceptable act.
It is an unacceptable and sometimes unrecoverable, like I was saying.
(04:36):
And it can be recoverable if you're okay moving on from it.
Meaning, you know it's out there and there's a one in a billion chance that somebody who knows you is going to see it, but
since that's so minute, you may just move on and not care.
I know somebody who is out there.
(04:57):
I know somebody very who is out there in pictures and movies and no one has ever said to her, hey, I saw you.
No one has ever said to her, you're that girl.
And so she can move on through life, not even thinking about it because now it's way in the past and everything we put out
(05:18):
there becomes a part of the past.
So again, that's just one way to look at it.
And I only tell you that, I tell you that for many reasons, but I only tell you that because I want to make sure that you're
okay moving forward because now we know it's out there in a permanent way and that if you really searched hard for those images, you could find them.
(05:41):
But I want to make sure that you're okay in yourself so that you can move forward.
So that's why I'm kind of sharing that perspective.
And so, like I said, this is a huge personal violation.
It's a very, first of all, it's a very immature thing that he did. Second, I think it's even illegal.
(06:03):
Third, you did not offer your consent, which puts that in another whole category.
And I'm just going to say this, it is similar to a digital form of rape. That's just my personal opinion.
And I know that's an entirely different subject, but you are being put out there.
(06:26):
So I'm laying the groundwork for the foundation of how I'd feel if it happened to me and what I would need to go through,
the thought process, the emotions that I would need to go through.
Rape is a very strong word and it means something entirely different, but it is a massive violation. Rape is a violation.
(06:53):
And so that might be too strong for some people that may be just right for some people.
But when I say it, it feels true.
You are putting me out there exposed to the world in my most vulnerable form and other people are now able to access that.
So again, I'm just laying this foundation so that you can reconcile inside yourself how you should feel, how you want to feel,
(07:22):
if you want to move forward, if you have thought about all these things so that you can heal.
And if you can heal and move forward, then we can get to the thought of what he did.
And is it something that you can move forward with?
Is it something that he actually feels bad doing?
(07:45):
Is he a sociopath or whatever you want to call him?
I think we need to address all of that, what I just healed from what happened and move on.
Because if this doesn't happen, if you aren't able to heal and move on from it inside yourself, what you carry forward into
(08:11):
the relationship that will be a part of it. And maybe it needs to be.
Sometimes we don't just let things go and we can move on from it. Think of infidelity.
Sometimes that needs to be a part of your foundation of moving forward, but it doesn't necessarily disappear.
(08:34):
But there does need to be healing.
If you are going to continue the relationship, there does need to be healing from it in yourself.
Because if you're not healed, you might carry resentments into the relationship going forward.
I'm not saying you don't deserve to feel resentful.
I'm just saying if you want this relationship to work out, those resentments need to be addressed.
(09:00):
And maybe with him, of course, you need to have these conversations.
When you did this, it made me feel what?
And knowing that they'll always be there makes me feel what?
Have these conversations with him because that will determine who he is going to be going forward.
(09:25):
Because let's just say that he's, I mean, maybe he's really young.
And I'm not, again, these aren't reasons or excuses.
I'm just putting out there what can happen and what is more likely a scenario like a young man might do something like this,
or they're more likely to do like this than someone who has matured.
(09:46):
Young man, 25 and under, 30 and under, 35 and under, they are more likely to do something like this than an older person.
Someone who is emotionally matured and understands the consequences of their actions and also has a bit of empathy to know that this could hurt you forever.
(10:08):
Even though if somebody does something like this, it is to hurt you.
And maybe they don't think in terms of forever, or maybe they're so angry or so wound up about something that they decide
to do something this bad to hurt you, the ultimate form of punishment.
And when they do that, they could be in that state of mind because they're young and immature or they're old and stupid, or they're just old and spiteful.
(10:39):
Or like you said, antisocial personality disorder. I can't necessarily address that.
That's something you have to have diagnosed.
But I will say that there are a couple of things to look at.
If somebody has that disorder, they're very likely not going to apologize because they never think they're wrong.
They don't think what they do is wrong.
(11:02):
And the other way to look at it is that if they want to gain a benefit, if they want to keep something together in their life,
keep a relationship in their life, they may pretend to be sorry.
And that's why I like the idea that you keep talking about this until you feel good, you know, talking about it with until
(11:27):
you feel good in yourself that he truly is sorry and he actually feels bad.
And you can tell when someone feels bad because when you bring it up, they don't say stupid things.
I'm sorry I'm being harsh, but this is the truth.
They don't say stupid things like, well, you should be over it by now.
(11:51):
Why are you still talking about this? It's been three months.
It's just a dumb thing to say for somebody who has hurt you so bad.
Why do you bring this up so much?
Why do you bring this up every time there's someone on TV that's naked or, you know, watching a movie or whatever? Why do you bring it up?
(12:12):
The person who has hurt you has to be prepared to address this every single time in a way that they know you may never get
over it and you may need to hear it from them over and over again.
Because somebody who is truly apologetic and truly cares about you is going to feel bad every time they think about what they did to upset you. They are going to feel bad.
(12:41):
It is going to be on their conscience.
They are not going to be able to get past it themselves. I say this from experience.
Every time I think about something I did to someone in my past, because I used to be emotionally abusive in my past relationships,
and it took many breakups and finally a divorce for me to finally learn.
(13:04):
I learned that I was the hurtful one.
I was the common denominator for all my problems, for all the relationship issues.
And I needed to learn that I was selfish and controlling and manipulative in order for me to start healing from that.
And I also needed to learn empathy.
(13:25):
And I mean, I had empathy, but not to the point where it overrode my selfishness.
So my selfish thoughts and my selfish desires overrode my empathy.
I was empathetic at times, but not all the time.
And I also wanted to control who my partners were.
(13:47):
Not all the time, but most of the time, where if they didn't show up as the person I wanted them to be, I wanted to change that.
And that made me a selfish person.
Controlling and manipulative, it made me want what I wanted, regardless of what they wanted.
I do not say that with any pride.
(14:10):
I feel low when I say that, but that's who I was.
And I share that because I'm emphasizing that when I think about how I treated those people, and if they showed up in my life
today and said, you treated me this way, and I'm still angry.
The first thing I would say is, you have every right to be.
(14:31):
I feel so awful I did that.
And whatever you need to say to me, you definitely should say it, because you didn't deserve that behavior.
You are worthy of kindness and respect, and I didn't give it to you.
You did not deserve any of what I did to you.
And if you are angry with me, you have every right to be.
(14:53):
If you are sad that I ruined your life, you have every right to be.
Fortunately, the people in my past have moved on to better relationships, and I've even reconnected with a couple of them,
and they were surprised at my changes, and they really liked what they saw, and they are happy that I have learned a lot in
(15:15):
myself and healed and moved past who I used to be, which was also immature.
I'd never done anything like this person wrote, but that is something that immature people do, and hurtful people do, and
most people who do something like that usually want to control the other person.
(15:36):
And in this case, I'm going to say that the person who did it was probably trying to control her, trying to make her do something
that she didn't want to do, or trying to make her do something, or be somebody that he wanted her to be, but she didn't, so he did something terrible.
So my opinion, if somebody is like a sociopath or antisocial personality disorder, if they are like that, then you're never going to feel the apology.
(16:06):
You're never going to sense that it's authentic, and they will very likely turn it back on you as your fault.
Like, this wouldn't have happened if you didn't say yes that day, or this wouldn't have happened if you chose to leave.
This wouldn't have happened if you didn't break up with me.
(16:26):
Whatever it is, whatever it is to them, but they will find a way to turn it back on you.
They will put the spotlight back on you, and they may even say something like, I'm so sorry, I wish I had never done that, but there's the but, right?
But I wouldn't have done that, and then they'll fill in the blank.
This reminds me of my wife's ex who said, I might not have cheated on you had I known it was grounds for divorce.
(16:57):
Every time I say it, hearing it is ridiculous. You might not have cheated. What? There's no compassion in that statement.
It's all selfish, and yeah, that's probably a sociopath talking.
I don't know for sure, but that's surely what it seems like. There's no empathy there for sure.
(17:20):
I'm so sorry, and I share this knowing that a sociopathic abuser might be listening, but they can't fake it.
It's so hard for them, and they can fake it for a little bit, but they can't fake it forever because they will get to the
point where they can't stand being blamed for something they did that hurt you that you're not over yet. They can't stand it.
(17:48):
Anyone who does not have enough empathy to treat you the way you deserve to be treated and the way you deserve to be respected
and supported, if they can't access enough empathy or any of it, then they are going to be upset that the spotlight is continually
(18:10):
on them, and they will get to the point where they say you need to get over it. Now, there are exceptions.
Let's just say that they have apologized, and they've been apologizing, and they're so sorry, and it's genuine, and you can
tell how authentic it is, but it's been like a year, and you continue bringing it up, and they're still apologizing, and they
(18:35):
don't know what else to say or do to make you feel better.
I'm not blaming you for that, because some people will not let go of the anger.
Some people will not heal from that.
Some people may stay upset indefinitely, and if that is you, if you still feel upset, I like to use the timeline of a year,
(18:58):
if you still feel this anger, this unresolvable hatred or anger or just resentment, if that's still in there, and you can't
let it go, and you do bring it up, you have to consider that maybe you won't be able to heal with this person in your life. That's just a fact, unfortunately.
(19:22):
Sometimes we want to have this relationship, but we can't get past what they did, and when you can't get past what they did,
and my timeline is a year, if it's been a year, and you still can't get past that, I mean, you can still feel feelings about
it, but if you're still angry, and you're bringing it up, and you're still putting it in the conversation, and putting it
(19:47):
in their face, and making sure they know you're still angry, this may be unresolvable in this relationship, and you may have
to make a choice to move on, and they may have to make a choice to move on, which I've seen happen.
Some people are in relationships where they were the hurtful one. They realized it. They healed from it.
(20:09):
I've seen it in my own program.
I healed being program, and when the year was up, and the second, even the second year was up, they decided there's nothing I can do. I've changed. I'm a different person.
I show up this way now, and no matter what I do, they still can't get past it, and again, I'm not blaming the victim there.
(20:32):
I'm showing that there are people who will stay upset, and will never get past it, and they have every right to feel that
way, and I'll never take that away from them, but there are people who will never get past what was done to them, and if that's
the case, this relationship may not ever work out, and that's when we have to think maybe and think, okay, what else do I
(20:58):
need to do, because this relationship, it's a constant trigger.
I can't look at their face without thinking of all that stuff they did to me, and I don't think I can move forward with this
person, and have any nice feelings about them, or if I have nice feelings, they're going to be mixed, and I don't want those
resentful, or angry, or hurtful, or hateful comments, or feelings coming out in our relationship, so I think I need to take
(21:26):
care of myself, and move forward in a different way without that person.
That could be the result of all of that, because I believe in that.
If you have been working on this, and trying to heal from something that somebody has done to you, and you can't get past
it, it may be time to move on from them. Sometimes that needs to happen.
(21:49):
So, let me get to this person's question, who asked, he says he feels terrible about doing these things, and I'm wondering,
in your opinion, someone who does something like this, could they really change, or if it shows signs of a personality disorder?
I think the personality disorder part will be noticed if all the other behaviors are in alignment with what they've already done.
(22:16):
If this is a one-off, and they don't normally do things so hurtful and hateful, then maybe it's not.
Again, I can't diagnose that, but that's how I look at it. I look at the patterns.
If somebody has ASPD, antisocial personality disorder, if they have that, you're going to see it in other things they do.
(22:36):
You're going to see it in how they treat other people.
The sociopath will park their vehicle on two lines at a diagonal, in a parking lot, and not care what people think.
Somebody who owns a nice car might do the same thing, and say, I do care what people think, but I don't want my car to get scratched.
(22:57):
Okay, so we might be able to look at that in two different ways, but the sociopath might say something to the waiter, waitress, whatever, and it's really mean.
And the sociopath doesn't really care what the waiter thinks.
Or they treat their mom like a pile of dirt, when their mom doesn't deserve that. So I look for patterns. I look for patterns.
(23:21):
And one-offs, I don't really care about. Sometimes people get angry.
Some people get triggered and do stupid things.
And this stupid thing that this person did will be up to you.
If you, like I said, if you feel like you've healed and you can heal from that and move forward, if he really has healed and
(23:43):
changed and will never do that again, which is a stipulation of forward movement in this relationship, he needs to promise
and mean that he will never ever do anything like that again. He needs to mean that.
And if anything even comes close to that, in my opinion, that's a huge violation and maybe a deal breaker.
(24:05):
So nothing should even ever come close to that act or event.
And if he truly is apologetic, you're going to feel it.
You're going to feel like he feels bad.
Because if he doesn't feel bad and you can feel the shift from him to you, the shift of the spotlight from him to you, and
(24:27):
you don't feel like there's resolution there, like you feel there's a but in his apology, I'm so sorry, but you know, this
wouldn't have happened if you weren't so angry at me that day.
If you feel that but, that's not a true apology. It's an offensive apology. It's a self-protective apology.
It's somebody saying, I'm sorry, I did this to you, but I got to protect myself. So don't look at me. It's not my fault. I'm protecting myself.
(24:55):
And I'm upset at you for making me have to do that, blaming you.
And I wouldn't have done that had you not done that to me.
So that's, there's no value in that apology. There's no substance.
It's just a placater so that they can say what they need to say to you.
(25:17):
You got to watch out for those kinds of apologies for sure.
And you will feel a real apology. You will know it's true.
Because you won't have to write to me and say, you know, my partner apologized and it just doesn't feel right.
I feel like there's still something missing.
Or I feel like I'm still angry. And they haven't addressed that.
(25:41):
There are signs, there are symptoms that you will have that will make you feel like the apology wasn't genuine and that they don't actually feel that way.
And the only caveat to that is if you have anger or resentment that you just can't let go of, and it's been a long time, and
I already talked about that, but that's how I see it.
(26:02):
If you've been holding onto it for a long time and you still can't let it go, and you are at the same level you've been at
for months, then that's probably not. going to end, because usually someone who has wronged you when you have healed and you
are healing from it, the level of negative energy that you feel about it decreases over time. When it doesn't, it doesn't.
(26:30):
It doesn't ever decrease over time, it just stays at the same level.
So that's the only caveat to that, is that you will feel a real apology, but you may be at a certain point where you can't get past it.
And whether that apology is real or not, if you still can't get past it, then we're back in the same old boat of, well, I
(26:50):
can't get past it, so I need to do something else with my time, with my life. That might be where it goes.
But again, you will feel a real apology.
It will feel like that person will move mountains, take a bullet for you, and it will be hard for them to have a good day because they feel so bad.
(27:12):
It's one way to look at it.
So let's just say he's not a sociopath. Can he change? I've seen change. I've seen big change.
I've seen a physical abuser become a non-abuser, completely. I've seen big changes in people.
And when that happens, it's because whatever triggered them in the past, they've learned to heal from and deal with.
(27:42):
So if somebody getting loud triggered them in the past, somebody getting loud today, it hits them differently.
And whatever triggered them activated their coping mechanism.
And is how you can find out if someone has changed. You just re-trigger them.
What coping mechanism do they default to?
(28:05):
If you talking to your ex triggered them in the past, how did they cope with it?
Their coping might be to yell at you, control you, manipulate you, get angry with you, give you that look, give you that glare.
Whatever their coping mechanism was, and coping in this case has a lot to do with control, they may cope by trying to control
(28:28):
you so that they don't have to deal with their own emotions about it.
That's what can happen or what does happen.
And the best thing to do is find out if what used to trigger them still triggers them.
And if it does, you need to talk about it.
Hey, why does this still trigger you? What's going on with you?
And if it triggers them and they still respond with the same abusive behavior they did before, then they haven't healed.
(28:54):
And someone who responds the same way to the same triggers that they did before, in this case, someone who posted nudes of
you online with some BS story dating app or whatever, if that's what they did before when they were triggered and they still
(29:15):
react the same way when they're triggered in other ways, they may do it again.
I hate to say that, I hope it's not true, but they may do it again because you know their fight-or-flight kicks in and they they just act impulsively.
If someone hasn't gotten a grip and done some healing on what emotionally triggers them and they still become triggered just
(29:42):
like they used to and they still act the same way when they're triggered, then the likelihood that they will do the same thing they did before is high. It is great. And that's not a good thing.
That's something that absolutely needs to be addressed.
And if that's still in him, there is a chance that he will do it again. Change is possible.
(30:06):
I've seen very abusive people turn into very kind, caring, supportive people because usually that's in there and most people that's in there.
Kind, caring, support, empathy, compassion, that's usually in most people.
And then these coping mechanisms add up a layer of protection for themselves so that they act in ways that push others away
(30:30):
so they don't have to deal with their own stuff.
And when they are hurtful and controlling and manipulative to you, it protects them.
So if those triggers, those old triggers haven't been dealt with and you can re-trigger them the same way, be careful because
it's still in there and the capability of hurting you the way they did in the past is still there too.
(30:56):
And of course, always pick your battles wisely.
I hope this helps you figure out what's going on.
Thank you so much for the person who wrote that.
And I did say, I was going to address something else today. It's a quick question.
Somebody wrote, does the verbal abuser want me to leave?
And how do I know if this is the case?
And what does it look like depending on the stage of the relationship? Dating, unofficial versus officially marriage. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
(31:26):
Does the verbal abuser want you to leave?
In my perspective, someone who wants you to leave will tell you to leave.
But that's just one basic way to look at this.
If they're yelling and screaming and they're angry and they say, you need to leave, you need to get out of my face, then they want you to leave. Take it at face value.
(31:49):
Now if they don't say something like that, they're just angry or they're just abusive and they're calling you names, then
they're trying to keep their power over you.
That's typically the way it looks to me, is that someone who is aggressive and verbally abusive and just intimidating to be
(32:09):
around, it's almost always them wanting power over you.
And if they can keep their power over you, they can get what they want from you.
And so somebody who's verbally abusive probably doesn't want you to go at all because they want to get what they want from you.
They need to control you and the more they diminish and invalidate and intimidate you, the less likely you're going to fight back.
(32:37):
The less likely you're going to feel confident enough to stand up for yourself or move on and move away from that person because
they want you to feel worthless without them.
They want you to feel unlovable without them.
As odd as that sounds, no one will ever love you like I do.
(32:59):
I hope no one has ever heard that, but I have a feeling the majority of people that listen to the show have heard that.
Someone who is controlling and abusive might say something, well, would say something like that.
No one could ever love you like I love you.
That's usually said in fear and anger or in desperation too.
(33:22):
So there's three energies there, three emotional energies. Fear, anger, desperation.
It's fearful because if they say that, then they believe that you'll want to stay because if you can't be loved, you know,
if somebody else can't love you as much as they do, you don't want that. You love being loved. Well, most people love being loved.
(33:45):
So they don't want to miss out on that.
So the abuser thinks, if I say no one will ever love you like I do, which is again ridiculous, like an oxymoron, I'm going to abuse you. This is how I love you.
If they say that, then they believe you'll stay.
So they do that out of fear that you'll leave. So that's how they control you. And then there's anger.
(34:07):
They're just angry and want you to feel bad, making you think that you're not lovable at all.
So this will hurt you enough for you to stay.
And then there is the desperation part, where they are so afraid of abandonment and rejection, which a lot of abusive people
are, they will say something so awful like that, so that you don't leave them.
(34:32):
And that is their primary concern, is you leaving them.
So they try to instill fear and powerlessness in you, so that you don't leave.
So that they can keep their control over you, so they can get what they want from you.
I'm generalizing a lot of people here.
I understand that not everyone is like this.
There are different reasons for different things that people do.
(34:55):
But in most cases, this is what happens.
Someone wants to keep their power over you, so they become abusive in different ways. Aggression and intimidation and bullying.
And when they do that, they're slowly diminishing your power and building theirs.
And their power is built on fear and desperation and sometimes anger. The angry ones, they're scarier, typically.
(35:20):
Because you don't know what's going to happen.
You don't know what they're going to do next.
And they could go off the handle and you don't know if they're going to throw something or hit you. It's very dangerous.
So to this person, does the verbal abuser want me to leave? Probably not.
They want you to stay, so that they can keep their control over you.
Now there are circumstances where someone will become abusive in hopes that you will leave.
(35:47):
So that they don't have to take responsibility for making the decision to either break up or leave the house or whatever.
The reason they do that is because they don't like taking responsibility.
They don't like being the person, the bad guy, the person that makes a decision like that.
(36:07):
So that they can look in the past after it happens and say, you left me. You abandoned us. You abandoned me and the kids. You abandoned our family. You did this to us.
So the more aggressive and abusive that they get, the more likely you'll want to get away from that.
(36:28):
And if their desire is for you to leave and you do leave, then they can say, ah you did this. You're the bad guy.
And if you are the bad guy, I'm in the clear.
And I can always point my finger at you and never have to take responsibility for the decisions that I make in my life or my behaviors.
So you leaving caused all this problem.
(36:53):
They'll never say my behavior caused you to get to the point where you had to leave me because it was too dangerous for you to stay.
Because it's easier for them to point the finger at you and say, you left. You didn't want to try.
You didn't want to go to therapy or we went to therapy and you didn't try hard enough. It doesn't matter.
Their goal is to make you make the decisions that break up the family or whatever so that they can point the finger at you later and blame you.
(37:20):
The question that this person has is, how do I know if they want me to leave or whatever? What does that look like?
And they also said, depending on the stage of the relationship, dating unofficial versus officially marriage.
I don't, I don't know how to answer that part of this question depending on the stage of the relationship.
But I do know that when somebody doesn't want to take responsibility, it's very present in, I mean, that type of personality
(37:51):
is very present in the relationship, meaning it shows up in other ways in the relationship.
So if there is a decision to be made and they don't want to make it, it might be because they don't want to take responsibility if it turns out bad.
And if it turns out badly and they made that decision, then they can be the one to blame.
(38:14):
So the avoidant type that don't like to make decisions, especially commitment type decisions, like, hey, let's take a vacation in a year.
That person may never talk about it again, may never bring it up again.
They just don't want to take the steps or take action to make a decision like that.
(38:36):
So when it, if it doesn't work out or when it doesn't work out, they can say, well, you know, it wasn't my fault.
So you're going to, you're going to see patterns like that in a person like that, where they will refuse to commit to future events. Hey, let's get married. That sounds great.
And then 10 years later, you're still not married.
(38:58):
That kind of person doesn't want to be responsible for making a decision like that.
Just in case it all goes wrong, they can point the finger at you and say, Hey, you were the one who wanted to do this.
You were the one who wanted to get married and look what happened to whatever.
The point is you'll notice these patterns in a person like that.
(39:20):
So if you want to know what it looks like, if someone wants you to leave, look for the presence of non committance and avoidance.
They don't want to commit to things and they avoid the heart, the hard things, and they avoid taking responsibility or making decisions or at least big decisions.
(39:41):
And if they are that type of avoidant, noncommittal person, and they are verbally or any type of abusive, any type of behavior
that is abusive towards you, and they're relentless and they're nonstop, they are very, very likely wanting you to make the
decision to leave so that they can be free and clear of the blame of any blame for anything that happens in the future.
(40:09):
After you leave, they can just say, well, you left.
And that's why I'm in this situation now.
And you're in this situation now because it's your fault. You broke us up.
So that is a way to tell if they want you to leave.
If they are not that way, if they can make decisions, if they can plan ahead and they don't mind making those types of decisions
(40:29):
and they are verbal and this person's question, they are verbally abusive person and they are bullying and calling you names
and making you feel bad about yourself. It's all about power.
I want to have power over you.
And I definitely want you to stay.
Because if you stay, I get what I want.
(40:51):
I sincerely hope no one is in that position who was listening.
But I know there are people out there that need to hear this.
I want to thank both people who wrote to me.
Thank you for sharing their stories and stay strong and share this with others who might benefit.
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
(41:12):
The workbook contains a 200 point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
And if you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about, and you want to change that
about yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
(41:36):
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
If you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the safe
listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone and you're not going crazy.
(42:01):
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love.
And you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship. You deserve respect and kindness.
(00:07):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
Welcome to Love and Abuse. I am going to dive right into the first topic.
(00:27):
I'm hoping to address two topics today. Let me switch screens here.
This person asked me, I got through your entire Mean Workbook.
My score was 144, and that's out of 200.
So if you're familiar with the workbook, it is about the level of control, manipulation, and abuse in your relationship.
(00:48):
And it reveals a lot that you may not even realize that is abusive.
So that's the Mean Workbook that I clean to me a couple of years ago about posting pictures of me, nude pictures, on a website with stories about me.
(01:09):
He started a nasty dating profile of me to see what interest I would get.
He says he feels terrible about doing these things to me, and I'm wondering if, in your opinion, someone who does something
like this could really change, or if these are signs of antisocial personality disorder. I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.
(01:35):
Wow, sometimes there are things that people do that you cannot recover from.
Putting pictures of you online, nude pictures, they are there permanently. So you are out there permanently.
You are now exposed to the world. How damaging is that?
(02:01):
So there are many ways to look at this.
One of the ways, and this is just something I'm throwing out there, I'm not saying this is how you should think about it,
but one of the ways is you are one of a billion nude photos out there, and someone may recognize you or not if they happen to chance upon your pictures. That's not an excuse.
(02:28):
I'm not saying what he did was right. It's not.
I'm just saying if there are any personal feelings, personal negative feelings that you have about this, you are going to
be forgotten as soon as you are seen.
And in this instance, being forgotten is OK.
I mean, if you didn't want these out there, which I'm assuming that's exactly what you're telling, why you're telling me this,
(02:51):
then you're going to be forgotten rather sooner than later.
It's just going to happen because people move on.
They see something, they look at it, whatever, and then they move on. They're done.
Now, if this was shared with friends and co-workers of yours, of his or whatever, that's a different story. That's pretty damaging.
(03:16):
I mean, it's damaging either way, but that's really personal.
So there's one way to look at it.
Another way, and this is pretty much related, is that it's a huge violation of your privacy, of how you want to show up in
the world and how comfortable you feel being who you are, knowing that there's this exposure out there of you that makes you very vulnerable.
(03:49):
And not everyone's going to feel this way.
Some people will feel like, yeah, you're right, Paul, there are billions of images out there and somebody may see them, somebody
may not, somebody may know you, somebody may just move on and not care.
But because there are so many images, because there is so much out there to consume, it's a pretty safe bet that you will
(04:13):
never be seen by people who know you.
I'm not saying it can't happen or it won't happen, but the chances are typically slim unless the links are shared with people you know. Again, it's an unacceptable act.
It is an unacceptable and sometimes unrecoverable, like I was saying.
(04:36):
And it can be recoverable if you're okay moving on from it.
Meaning, you know it's out there and there's a one in a billion chance that somebody who knows you is going to see it, but
since that's so minute, you may just move on and not care.
I know somebody who is out there.
(04:57):
I know somebody very who is out there in pictures and movies and no one has ever said to her, hey, I saw you.
No one has ever said to her, you're that girl.
And so she can move on through life, not even thinking about it because now it's way in the past and everything we put out
(05:18):
there becomes a part of the past.
So again, that's just one way to look at it.
And I only tell you that, I tell you that for many reasons, but I only tell you that because I want to make sure that you're
okay moving forward because now we know it's out there in a permanent way and that if you really searched hard for those images, you could find them.
(05:41):
But I want to make sure that you're okay in yourself so that you can move forward.
So that's why I'm kind of sharing that perspective.
And so, like I said, this is a huge personal violation.
It's a very, first of all, it's a very immature thing that he did. Second, I think it's even illegal.
(06:03):
Third, you did not offer your consent, which puts that in another whole category.
And I'm just going to say this, it is similar to a digital form of rape. That's just my personal opinion.
And I know that's an entirely different subject, but you are being put out there.
(06:26):
So I'm laying the groundwork for the foundation of how I'd feel if it happened to me and what I would need to go through,
the thought process, the emotions that I would need to go through.
Rape is a very strong word and it means something entirely different, but it is a massive violation. Rape is a violation.
(06:53):
And so that might be too strong for some people that may be just right for some people.
But when I say it, it feels true.
You are putting me out there exposed to the world in my most vulnerable form and other people are now able to access that.
So again, I'm just laying this foundation so that you can reconcile inside yourself how you should feel, how you want to feel,
(07:22):
if you want to move forward, if you have thought about all these things so that you can heal.
And if you can heal and move forward, then we can get to the thought of what he did.
And is it something that you can move forward with?
Is it something that he actually feels bad doing?
(07:45):
Is he a sociopath or whatever you want to call him?
I think we need to address all of that, what I just healed from what happened and move on.
Because if this doesn't happen, if you aren't able to heal and move on from it inside yourself, what you carry forward into
(08:11):
the relationship that will be a part of it. And maybe it needs to be.
Sometimes we don't just let things go and we can move on from it. Think of infidelity.
Sometimes that needs to be a part of your foundation of moving forward, but it doesn't necessarily disappear.
(08:34):
But there does need to be healing.
If you are going to continue the relationship, there does need to be healing from it in yourself.
Because if you're not healed, you might carry resentments into the relationship going forward.
I'm not saying you don't deserve to feel resentful.
I'm just saying if you want this relationship to work out, those resentments need to be addressed.
(09:00):
And maybe with him, of course, you need to have these conversations.
When you did this, it made me feel what?
And knowing that they'll always be there makes me feel what?
Have these conversations with him because that will determine who he is going to be going forward.
(09:25):
Because let's just say that he's, I mean, maybe he's really young.
And I'm not, again, these aren't reasons or excuses.
I'm just putting out there what can happen and what is more likely a scenario like a young man might do something like this,
or they're more likely to do like this than someone who has matured.
(09:46):
Young man, 25 and under, 30 and under, 35 and under, they are more likely to do something like this than an older person.
Someone who is emotionally matured and understands the consequences of their actions and also has a bit of empathy to know that this could hurt you forever.
(10:08):
Even though if somebody does something like this, it is to hurt you.
And maybe they don't think in terms of forever, or maybe they're so angry or so wound up about something that they decide
to do something this bad to hurt you, the ultimate form of punishment.
And when they do that, they could be in that state of mind because they're young and immature or they're old and stupid, or they're just old and spiteful.
(10:39):
Or like you said, antisocial personality disorder. I can't necessarily address that.
That's something you have to have diagnosed.
But I will say that there are a couple of things to look at.
If somebody has that disorder, they're very likely not going to apologize because they never think they're wrong.
They don't think what they do is wrong.
(11:02):
And the other way to look at it is that if they want to gain a benefit, if they want to keep something together in their life,
keep a relationship in their life, they may pretend to be sorry.
And that's why I like the idea that you keep talking about this until you feel good, you know, talking about it with until
(11:27):
you feel good in yourself that he truly is sorry and he actually feels bad.
And you can tell when someone feels bad because when you bring it up, they don't say stupid things.
I'm sorry I'm being harsh, but this is the truth.
They don't say stupid things like, well, you should be over it by now.
(11:51):
Why are you still talking about this? It's been three months.
It's just a dumb thing to say for somebody who has hurt you so bad.
Why do you bring this up so much?
Why do you bring this up every time there's someone on TV that's naked or, you know, watching a movie or whatever? Why do you bring it up?
(12:12):
The person who has hurt you has to be prepared to address this every single time in a way that they know you may never get
over it and you may need to hear it from them over and over again.
Because somebody who is truly apologetic and truly cares about you is going to feel bad every time they think about what they did to upset you. They are going to feel bad.
(12:41):
It is going to be on their conscience.
They are not going to be able to get past it themselves. I say this from experience.
Every time I think about something I did to someone in my past, because I used to be emotionally abusive in my past relationships,
and it took many breakups and finally a divorce for me to finally learn.
(13:04):
I learned that I was the hurtful one.
I was the common denominator for all my problems, for all the relationship issues.
And I needed to learn that I was selfish and controlling and manipulative in order for me to start healing from that.
And I also needed to learn empathy.
(13:25):
And I mean, I had empathy, but not to the point where it overrode my selfishness.
So my selfish thoughts and my selfish desires overrode my empathy.
I was empathetic at times, but not all the time.
And I also wanted to control who my partners were.
(13:47):
Not all the time, but most of the time, where if they didn't show up as the person I wanted them to be, I wanted to change that.
And that made me a selfish person.
Controlling and manipulative, it made me want what I wanted, regardless of what they wanted.
I do not say that with any pride.
(14:10):
I feel low when I say that, but that's who I was.
And I share that because I'm emphasizing that when I think about how I treated those people, and if they showed up in my life
today and said, you treated me this way, and I'm still angry.
The first thing I would say is, you have every right to be.
(14:31):
I feel so awful I did that.
And whatever you need to say to me, you definitely should say it, because you didn't deserve that behavior.
You are worthy of kindness and respect, and I didn't give it to you.
You did not deserve any of what I did to you.
And if you are angry with me, you have every right to be.
(14:53):
If you are sad that I ruined your life, you have every right to be.
Fortunately, the people in my past have moved on to better relationships, and I've even reconnected with a couple of them,
and they were surprised at my changes, and they really liked what they saw, and they are happy that I have learned a lot in
(15:15):
myself and healed and moved past who I used to be, which was also immature.
I'd never done anything like this person wrote, but that is something that immature people do, and hurtful people do, and
most people who do something like that usually want to control the other person.
(15:36):
And in this case, I'm going to say that the person who did it was probably trying to control her, trying to make her do something
that she didn't want to do, or trying to make her do something, or be somebody that he wanted her to be, but she didn't, so he did something terrible.
So my opinion, if somebody is like a sociopath or antisocial personality disorder, if they are like that, then you're never going to feel the apology.
(16:06):
You're never going to sense that it's authentic, and they will very likely turn it back on you as your fault.
Like, this wouldn't have happened if you didn't say yes that day, or this wouldn't have happened if you chose to leave.
This wouldn't have happened if you didn't break up with me.
(16:26):
Whatever it is, whatever it is to them, but they will find a way to turn it back on you.
They will put the spotlight back on you, and they may even say something like, I'm so sorry, I wish I had never done that, but there's the but, right?
But I wouldn't have done that, and then they'll fill in the blank.
This reminds me of my wife's ex who said, I might not have cheated on you had I known it was grounds for divorce.
(16:57):
Every time I say it, hearing it is ridiculous. You might not have cheated. What? There's no compassion in that statement.
It's all selfish, and yeah, that's probably a sociopath talking.
I don't know for sure, but that's surely what it seems like. There's no empathy there for sure.
(17:20):
I'm so sorry, and I share this knowing that a sociopathic abuser might be listening, but they can't fake it.
It's so hard for them, and they can fake it for a little bit, but they can't fake it forever because they will get to the
point where they can't stand being blamed for something they did that hurt you that you're not over yet. They can't stand it.
(17:48):
Anyone who does not have enough empathy to treat you the way you deserve to be treated and the way you deserve to be respected
and supported, if they can't access enough empathy or any of it, then they are going to be upset that the spotlight is continually
(18:10):
on them, and they will get to the point where they say you need to get over it. Now, there are exceptions.
Let's just say that they have apologized, and they've been apologizing, and they're so sorry, and it's genuine, and you can
tell how authentic it is, but it's been like a year, and you continue bringing it up, and they're still apologizing, and they
(18:35):
don't know what else to say or do to make you feel better.
I'm not blaming you for that, because some people will not let go of the anger.
Some people will not heal from that.
Some people may stay upset indefinitely, and if that is you, if you still feel upset, I like to use the timeline of a year,
(18:58):
if you still feel this anger, this unresolvable hatred or anger or just resentment, if that's still in there, and you can't
let it go, and you do bring it up, you have to consider that maybe you won't be able to heal with this person in your life. That's just a fact, unfortunately.
(19:22):
Sometimes we want to have this relationship, but we can't get past what they did, and when you can't get past what they did,
and my timeline is a year, if it's been a year, and you still can't get past that, I mean, you can still feel feelings about
it, but if you're still angry, and you're bringing it up, and you're still putting it in the conversation, and putting it
(19:47):
in their face, and making sure they know you're still angry, this may be unresolvable in this relationship, and you may have
to make a choice to move on, and they may have to make a choice to move on, which I've seen happen.
Some people are in relationships where they were the hurtful one. They realized it. They healed from it.
(20:09):
I've seen it in my own program.
I healed being program, and when the year was up, and the second, even the second year was up, they decided there's nothing I can do. I've changed. I'm a different person.
I show up this way now, and no matter what I do, they still can't get past it, and again, I'm not blaming the victim there.
(20:32):
I'm showing that there are people who will stay upset, and will never get past it, and they have every right to feel that
way, and I'll never take that away from them, but there are people who will never get past what was done to them, and if that's
the case, this relationship may not ever work out, and that's when we have to think maybe and think, okay, what else do I
(20:58):
need to do, because this relationship, it's a constant trigger.
I can't look at their face without thinking of all that stuff they did to me, and I don't think I can move forward with this
person, and have any nice feelings about them, or if I have nice feelings, they're going to be mixed, and I don't want those
resentful, or angry, or hurtful, or hateful comments, or feelings coming out in our relationship, so I think I need to take
(21:26):
care of myself, and move forward in a different way without that person.
That could be the result of all of that, because I believe in that.
If you have been working on this, and trying to heal from something that somebody has done to you, and you can't get past
it, it may be time to move on from them. Sometimes that needs to happen.
(21:49):
So, let me get to this person's question, who asked, he says he feels terrible about doing these things, and I'm wondering,
in your opinion, someone who does something like this, could they really change, or if it shows signs of a personality disorder?
I think the personality disorder part will be noticed if all the other behaviors are in alignment with what they've already done.
(22:16):
If this is a one-off, and they don't normally do things so hurtful and hateful, then maybe it's not.
Again, I can't diagnose that, but that's how I look at it. I look at the patterns.
If somebody has ASPD, antisocial personality disorder, if they have that, you're going to see it in other things they do.
(22:36):
You're going to see it in how they treat other people.
The sociopath will park their vehicle on two lines at a diagonal, in a parking lot, and not care what people think.
Somebody who owns a nice car might do the same thing, and say, I do care what people think, but I don't want my car to get scratched.
(22:57):
Okay, so we might be able to look at that in two different ways, but the sociopath might say something to the waiter, waitress, whatever, and it's really mean.
And the sociopath doesn't really care what the waiter thinks.
Or they treat their mom like a pile of dirt, when their mom doesn't deserve that. So I look for patterns. I look for patterns.
(23:21):
And one-offs, I don't really care about. Sometimes people get angry.
Some people get triggered and do stupid things.
And this stupid thing that this person did will be up to you.
If you, like I said, if you feel like you've healed and you can heal from that and move forward, if he really has healed and
(23:43):
changed and will never do that again, which is a stipulation of forward movement in this relationship, he needs to promise
and mean that he will never ever do anything like that again. He needs to mean that.
And if anything even comes close to that, in my opinion, that's a huge violation and maybe a deal breaker.
(24:05):
So nothing should even ever come close to that act or event.
And if he truly is apologetic, you're going to feel it.
You're going to feel like he feels bad.
Because if he doesn't feel bad and you can feel the shift from him to you, the shift of the spotlight from him to you, and
(24:27):
you don't feel like there's resolution there, like you feel there's a but in his apology, I'm so sorry, but you know, this
wouldn't have happened if you weren't so angry at me that day.
If you feel that but, that's not a true apology. It's an offensive apology. It's a self-protective apology.
It's somebody saying, I'm sorry, I did this to you, but I got to protect myself. So don't look at me. It's not my fault. I'm protecting myself.
(24:55):
And I'm upset at you for making me have to do that, blaming you.
And I wouldn't have done that had you not done that to me.
So that's, there's no value in that apology. There's no substance.
It's just a placater so that they can say what they need to say to you.
(25:17):
You got to watch out for those kinds of apologies for sure.
And you will feel a real apology. You will know it's true.
Because you won't have to write to me and say, you know, my partner apologized and it just doesn't feel right.
I feel like there's still something missing.
Or I feel like I'm still angry. And they haven't addressed that.
(25:41):
There are signs, there are symptoms that you will have that will make you feel like the apology wasn't genuine and that they don't actually feel that way.
And the only caveat to that is if you have anger or resentment that you just can't let go of, and it's been a long time, and
I already talked about that, but that's how I see it.
(26:02):
If you've been holding onto it for a long time and you still can't let it go, and you are at the same level you've been at
for months, then that's probably not. going to end, because usually someone who has wronged you when you have healed and you
are healing from it, the level of negative energy that you feel about it decreases over time. When it doesn't, it doesn't.
(26:30):
It doesn't ever decrease over time, it just stays at the same level.
So that's the only caveat to that, is that you will feel a real apology, but you may be at a certain point where you can't get past it.
And whether that apology is real or not, if you still can't get past it, then we're back in the same old boat of, well, I
(26:50):
can't get past it, so I need to do something else with my time, with my life. That might be where it goes.
But again, you will feel a real apology.
It will feel like that person will move mountains, take a bullet for you, and it will be hard for them to have a good day because they feel so bad.
(27:12):
It's one way to look at it.
So let's just say he's not a sociopath. Can he change? I've seen change. I've seen big change.
I've seen a physical abuser become a non-abuser, completely. I've seen big changes in people.
And when that happens, it's because whatever triggered them in the past, they've learned to heal from and deal with.
(27:42):
So if somebody getting loud triggered them in the past, somebody getting loud today, it hits them differently.
And whatever triggered them activated their coping mechanism.
And is how you can find out if someone has changed. You just re-trigger them.
What coping mechanism do they default to?
(28:05):
If you talking to your ex triggered them in the past, how did they cope with it?
Their coping might be to yell at you, control you, manipulate you, get angry with you, give you that look, give you that glare.
Whatever their coping mechanism was, and coping in this case has a lot to do with control, they may cope by trying to control
(28:28):
you so that they don't have to deal with their own emotions about it.
That's what can happen or what does happen.
And the best thing to do is find out if what used to trigger them still triggers them.
And if it does, you need to talk about it.
Hey, why does this still trigger you? What's going on with you?
And if it triggers them and they still respond with the same abusive behavior they did before, then they haven't healed.
(28:54):
And someone who responds the same way to the same triggers that they did before, in this case, someone who posted nudes of
you online with some BS story dating app or whatever, if that's what they did before when they were triggered and they still
(29:15):
react the same way when they're triggered in other ways, they may do it again.
I hate to say that, I hope it's not true, but they may do it again because you know their fight-or-flight kicks in and they they just act impulsively.
If someone hasn't gotten a grip and done some healing on what emotionally triggers them and they still become triggered just
(29:42):
like they used to and they still act the same way when they're triggered, then the likelihood that they will do the same thing they did before is high. It is great. And that's not a good thing.
That's something that absolutely needs to be addressed.
And if that's still in him, there is a chance that he will do it again. Change is possible.
(30:06):
I've seen very abusive people turn into very kind, caring, supportive people because usually that's in there and most people that's in there.
Kind, caring, support, empathy, compassion, that's usually in most people.
And then these coping mechanisms add up a layer of protection for themselves so that they act in ways that push others away
(30:30):
so they don't have to deal with their own stuff.
And when they are hurtful and controlling and manipulative to you, it protects them.
So if those triggers, those old triggers haven't been dealt with and you can re-trigger them the same way, be careful because
it's still in there and the capability of hurting you the way they did in the past is still there too.
(30:56):
And of course, always pick your battles wisely.
I hope this helps you figure out what's going on.
Thank you so much for the person who wrote that.
And I did say, I was going to address something else today. It's a quick question.
Somebody wrote, does the verbal abuser want me to leave?
And how do I know if this is the case?
And what does it look like depending on the stage of the relationship? Dating, unofficial versus officially marriage. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
(31:26):
Does the verbal abuser want you to leave?
In my perspective, someone who wants you to leave will tell you to leave.
But that's just one basic way to look at this.
If they're yelling and screaming and they're angry and they say, you need to leave, you need to get out of my face, then they want you to leave. Take it at face value.
(31:49):
Now if they don't say something like that, they're just angry or they're just abusive and they're calling you names, then
they're trying to keep their power over you.
That's typically the way it looks to me, is that someone who is aggressive and verbally abusive and just intimidating to be
(32:09):
around, it's almost always them wanting power over you.
And if they can keep their power over you, they can get what they want from you.
And so somebody who's verbally abusive probably doesn't want you to go at all because they want to get what they want from you.
They need to control you and the more they diminish and invalidate and intimidate you, the less likely you're going to fight back.
(32:37):
The less likely you're going to feel confident enough to stand up for yourself or move on and move away from that person because
they want you to feel worthless without them.
They want you to feel unlovable without them.
As odd as that sounds, no one will ever love you like I do.
(32:59):
I hope no one has ever heard that, but I have a feeling the majority of people that listen to the show have heard that.
Someone who is controlling and abusive might say something, well, would say something like that.
No one could ever love you like I love you.
That's usually said in fear and anger or in desperation too.
(33:22):
So there's three energies there, three emotional energies. Fear, anger, desperation.
It's fearful because if they say that, then they believe that you'll want to stay because if you can't be loved, you know,
if somebody else can't love you as much as they do, you don't want that. You love being loved. Well, most people love being loved.
(33:45):
So they don't want to miss out on that.
So the abuser thinks, if I say no one will ever love you like I do, which is again ridiculous, like an oxymoron, I'm going to abuse you. This is how I love you.
If they say that, then they believe you'll stay.
So they do that out of fear that you'll leave. So that's how they control you. And then there's anger.
(34:07):
They're just angry and want you to feel bad, making you think that you're not lovable at all.
So this will hurt you enough for you to stay.
And then there is the desperation part, where they are so afraid of abandonment and rejection, which a lot of abusive people
are, they will say something so awful like that, so that you don't leave them.
(34:32):
And that is their primary concern, is you leaving them.
So they try to instill fear and powerlessness in you, so that you don't leave.
So that they can keep their control over you, so they can get what they want from you.
I'm generalizing a lot of people here.
I understand that not everyone is like this.
There are different reasons for different things that people do.
(34:55):
But in most cases, this is what happens.
Someone wants to keep their power over you, so they become abusive in different ways. Aggression and intimidation and bullying.
And when they do that, they're slowly diminishing your power and building theirs.
And their power is built on fear and desperation and sometimes anger. The angry ones, they're scarier, typically.
(35:20):
Because you don't know what's going to happen.
You don't know what they're going to do next.
And they could go off the handle and you don't know if they're going to throw something or hit you. It's very dangerous.
So to this person, does the verbal abuser want me to leave? Probably not.
They want you to stay, so that they can keep their control over you.
Now there are circumstances where someone will become abusive in hopes that you will leave.
(35:47):
So that they don't have to take responsibility for making the decision to either break up or leave the house or whatever.
The reason they do that is because they don't like taking responsibility.
They don't like being the person, the bad guy, the person that makes a decision like that.
(36:07):
So that they can look in the past after it happens and say, you left me. You abandoned us. You abandoned me and the kids. You abandoned our family. You did this to us.
So the more aggressive and abusive that they get, the more likely you'll want to get away from that.
(36:28):
And if their desire is for you to leave and you do leave, then they can say, ah you did this. You're the bad guy.
And if you are the bad guy, I'm in the clear.
And I can always point my finger at you and never have to take responsibility for the decisions that I make in my life or my behaviors.
So you leaving caused all this problem.
(36:53):
They'll never say my behavior caused you to get to the point where you had to leave me because it was too dangerous for you to stay.
Because it's easier for them to point the finger at you and say, you left. You didn't want to try.
You didn't want to go to therapy or we went to therapy and you didn't try hard enough. It doesn't matter.
Their goal is to make you make the decisions that break up the family or whatever so that they can point the finger at you later and blame you.
(37:20):
The question that this person has is, how do I know if they want me to leave or whatever? What does that look like?
And they also said, depending on the stage of the relationship, dating unofficial versus officially marriage.
I don't, I don't know how to answer that part of this question depending on the stage of the relationship.
But I do know that when somebody doesn't want to take responsibility, it's very present in, I mean, that type of personality
(37:51):
is very present in the relationship, meaning it shows up in other ways in the relationship.
So if there is a decision to be made and they don't want to make it, it might be because they don't want to take responsibility if it turns out bad.
And if it turns out badly and they made that decision, then they can be the one to blame.
(38:14):
So the avoidant type that don't like to make decisions, especially commitment type decisions, like, hey, let's take a vacation in a year.
That person may never talk about it again, may never bring it up again.
They just don't want to take the steps or take action to make a decision like that.
(38:36):
So when it, if it doesn't work out or when it doesn't work out, they can say, well, you know, it wasn't my fault.
So you're going to, you're going to see patterns like that in a person like that, where they will refuse to commit to future events. Hey, let's get married. That sounds great.
And then 10 years later, you're still not married.
(38:58):
That kind of person doesn't want to be responsible for making a decision like that.
Just in case it all goes wrong, they can point the finger at you and say, Hey, you were the one who wanted to do this.
You were the one who wanted to get married and look what happened to whatever.
The point is you'll notice these patterns in a person like that.
(39:20):
So if you want to know what it looks like, if someone wants you to leave, look for the presence of non committance and avoidance.
They don't want to commit to things and they avoid the heart, the hard things, and they avoid taking responsibility or making decisions or at least big decisions.
(39:41):
And if they are that type of avoidant, noncommittal person, and they are verbally or any type of abusive, any type of behavior
that is abusive towards you, and they're relentless and they're nonstop, they are very, very likely wanting you to make the
decision to leave so that they can be free and clear of the blame of any blame for anything that happens in the future.
(40:09):
After you leave, they can just say, well, you left.
And that's why I'm in this situation now.
And you're in this situation now because it's your fault. You broke us up.
So that is a way to tell if they want you to leave.
If they are not that way, if they can make decisions, if they can plan ahead and they don't mind making those types of decisions
(40:29):
and they are verbal and this person's question, they are verbally abusive person and they are bullying and calling you names
and making you feel bad about yourself. It's all about power.
I want to have power over you.
And I definitely want you to stay.
Because if you stay, I get what I want.
(40:51):
I sincerely hope no one is in that position who was listening.
But I know there are people out there that need to hear this.
I want to thank both people who wrote to me.
Thank you for sharing their stories and stay strong and share this with others who might benefit.
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
(41:12):
The workbook contains a 200 point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
And if you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about, and you want to change that
about yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
(41:36):
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
If you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the safe
listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone and you're not going crazy.
(42:01):
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love.
And you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.