September 3, 2025 • 31 mins
How do you know when it’s time to instigate a split? If your partner’s behavior leaves you feeling oppressed and defeated, and they refuse to change, and they also don't want to end the relationship, then what?
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship, from simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors. You deserve respect and kindness.
(00:10):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host Paul Colaianni.
Welcome to another episode of Love and Abuse.
If this is your first time, then, how can I say this, I'm sorry that you have to tune in to a show like this.
(00:35):
At the same time, some people will tune in just to find out what kind of behavior is healthy in a relationship.
So not everyone's in a controlling or manipulative relationship.
Some people want to know if their relationship is unhealthy, toxic, abusive.
And others, like this wrote to me, I've got it in front of me right now, who said, I think my marriage has been unrecoverable
(01:02):
for a long time, but I still find myself hoping for a miracle when we get along.
I think when you are in a state of, I hope it gets better.
I don't think I've ever heard from anyone who says, I hope it gets better, and then they write back and say, it got better.
(01:23):
Unless the person that was very difficult or controlling or emotionally abusive went through some sort of transformation or
a program like the one I run, Healed Being, or they went to therapy, something had to have happened, something majorly different.
Because we bring ourselves into the relationship, and if that's who they are, then that's who they are showing up as, because that's who they are.
(01:53):
So they may have started off differently.
They may have started off as kind and caring and supportive, and then things changed.
The honeymoon period ended, and then they started acting in their default patterns and their default behaviors.
And when they do that, the real person comes out.
(02:14):
Now that doesn't mean that somebody who's controlling, that's who they are deep down, because a lot of abusive and controlling
behaviors come from a place of fear, unresolved anger, unresolved trauma from the past.
And so we bring our unresolved traumas, our unhealed wounds into a relationship, and those things usually appear a few months after the relationship starts.
(02:46):
It's not an exact timeline, but I typically see two to four months, sometimes six months, sometimes a year, sometimes when you get married.
We start showing our unresolved, unhealed components of ourselves.
And so when those things come out, we think, why are they changing? But they're not changing. Even in ourselves, we're not changing.
(03:13):
That's who we are and what we have inside of us.
It doesn't mean we have to stay that way.
It doesn't mean that's who we are forever. Some people will choose to change. Some people won't.
Some people will choose to look at their unresolved traumas and unhealed wounds and decide to work on those things.
(03:34):
And when they do that, maybe they'll heal.
Maybe they'll reflect on all the ways they've been behaving and change those ways. Maybe they'll show up differently.
But again, something major needs to happen.
If you are in a relationship where you're wondering if things will get better or you're waiting for something to change, you
(03:55):
need to see something big happening on their end or something big happening in general. Something major needs to happen.
It's very rare that somebody is doing hurtful behaviors, for example, and then they stop and think, hmm, I shouldn't be hurting that person anymore. I think I'll change.
(04:17):
It's very rare for that to happen just out of the blue. Something big needs to happen.
This is why if you've been listening a while, you've heard me say this.
This is why emotionally abusive people don't normally change until you either say, I've had enough and I'm leaving or you
(04:39):
better stop doing what you're doing or else that's when they realize, oh, what I'm doing is really bad and I need to look at that.
Or they'll say, I better stop doing what I'm doing even though I don't believe what I'm doing is wrong. That can happen too. How do I tell the difference? I know, right?
(05:01):
You tell the difference when it happens.
If they do change in a few weeks, you'll see if it's real. It's typically what happens.
Somebody will either stop doing some bad or hurtful behaviors for a few weeks, get you on their good side again, get you feeling
comfortable and safe, and then their default behaviors come back. That's how you can tell.
(05:26):
They may change for a few weeks and then they come back.
I know the question is, well, how do I know it's real this time? How do I know it's real?
How do I know if what they're doing is authentic or not?
Got to wait longer than a few weeks and you have to reintroduce what triggered them before to find out if they truly are in
(05:46):
a different space, in a different headspace, in a different emotional space, if they truly are healing.
Because you won't be able to tell if somebody's healing if they're faking it, if you don't reintroduce the triggers that caused
them to react in the first place.
So if your partner, for example, gets really jealous when you talk to somebody of the opposite sex or the same sex, if you're
(06:13):
in the same sex relationship, if they get jealous and they get insecure and they say things, they make you feel bad for talking to that person.
And then they say, I've changed, I'm healing, I'm feeling better.
There should be no problem with you talking to someone that could make them think it could be a potential partner.
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So if you could talk to someone the same way you used to talk to them and your partner doesn't have a problem with it, oh
yeah, you guys have a good time.
Then you know they're changing or at least they're biting their tongue and working on it in themselves.
Now, again, they can fake that for a few weeks, but eventually there's a buildup inside of them. I can't take it anymore. You were talking to that person. I can't take it. Don't talk to those people. You'll experience that.
(07:07):
This is why I often say that if emotionally abusive people listen to this show, they might get all these tools and tips on
how to fake it until the other person feels comfortable.
And then the other person thinks, oh no, if they listen to this show and get all those tools and tips, all this advice, am I going to be fooled?
You will probably be fooled for about a week or two.
(07:30):
And then again, the default behaviors will come out because there's a buildup.
Because if somebody doesn't work on their old emotional traumas that are causing the emotional triggers today, it will come out. Those things will come out. They need to heal.
They need to work on that stuff.
They need to address why they react the way they do.
(07:53):
It's usually because they're poor at coping.
They developed poor or unhealthy coping skills as a child or in their childhood.
And growing up, they apply those poor coping skills to adult relationships, which don't apply to adult relationships anymore.
They only applied as a child because the child tried to figure out exactly how to survive situations, whether they were deadly
(08:18):
or not, whether they were dangerous or not.
They felt like there was danger, so they would develop coping mechanisms.
It's just one little aspect of why somebody becomes emotionally abusive later on in life. But that is very typical.
That is what happened to me as a kid.
I grew up in an alcoholic home and I realized it was very dangerous to be around the alcoholic when they were drunk and they were very dangerous.
(08:48):
And so I developed these coping mechanisms back then by hiding, being quiet, not honoring myself, meaning not standing up
and saying, hey, shut up, don't hurt my mom, you know, things like that.
I'm sorry if that's triggering for anyone, but that's that was what I dealt with.
And I would have to learn how to survive.
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And so when we're children, we don't have these tools, unless somebody taught us back then, but we do.
We don't have the tools to survive, so we make them up on our own.
It's like being introduced to an alien planet and learning how to live on that planet, not knowing what's coming next.
And then there's a storm that happens on the planet.
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So you have to build yourself a shelter and you don't know how any of the materials work, what their resistance or resiliency is.
And so you try to put something together and maybe it doesn't work the first time, but maybe after the fifth or sixth or 10th time, you got something to work.
So you made it up on your own. You figured it out. But is it the best material?
(09:57):
Is it the best way to protect yourself? You don't know. You just know it worked.
And so you probably will use that same logic as you grow up, as you continue to survive on the planet, knowing that the materials
that you found work in this respect, but maybe they don't work for a different type of storm.
(10:18):
You know, there's all kinds of things that we teach ourselves when we're children or that we learn from others that may be unhealthy or unresourceful.
They just don't work like they're supposed to.
And then when we get into a different environment with different people, aliens, when we get around people that are no longer
our caretakers or no longer our parents, and they are just different to us, there are their equals and other adults because
(10:46):
we're growing up and we're trying to use these old tools and resources and we're really messing it up.
People become emotionally abusive because they're still using these old tools and resources and they think it's right.
They think that what they're doing is the right thing to do because it worked when I was six.
And it's not that they're thinking of this consciously. It just became ingrained.
(11:10):
And this is how I'm supposed to act.
I'm supposed to be controlling of other people so that I stay safe. That's how I live my life. That might be their thought process. I'm supposed to be controlling.
Even though it doesn't make sense to somebody who's not controlling.
It doesn't make sense to somebody who's being controlled.
If that doesn't make sense, why would you want to hurt me?
I hurt you to stay safe because that's how I learned. That might be their thought process.
(11:36):
So I want to visit this person's message that wrote to me and said, well first, I'm still hoping for a miracle when we get along. I think I answered that.
If there's no major change like what this person wrote, a miracle, you're not going to see it.
And so you can wait and wait and wait.
(11:58):
But if there's no forward progress on their end, you're not going to see forward progress.
If they don't say like, if they don't say, I'm going to go to therapy tomorrow, but they don't go, then that's not progress.
If they say instead, I don't need help. You do. That's not forward progress. And so it creates a trend.
(12:21):
And you look at the trend line from the last one year, five year, 10 years, what has happened with them? Have they done anything? Are they doing anything? Because if they aren't, they won't.
That's just a belief that you have to create in yourself.
If somebody isn't doing anything to help themselves, to work on themselves, to get help in some way, then they won't.
(12:46):
What you see today is what will be tomorrow.
What you see today is all you have as your evidence for what will be.
So what you see today, you have to believe is the truth of what will be.
That requires probably altering your belief system because hoping that someone will change when there's been no evidence of
(13:12):
it so far, requires you to alter what you believe.
Because you may believe that they could change because you saw it at the beginning.
You saw who they, who you wanted at the beginning, who you really loved at the beginning.
But now that's not that person anymore. Their default behaviors are showing up.
And so now your beliefs have really relaxed.
(13:36):
And we need to alter that belief system to realize that what you see today is what will be. And accept that as truth. They could surprise you tomorrow. I understand that.
But accept what you see as truth today because otherwise you rely on quite possibly a false belief system.
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And I say that carefully because I don't mean to tread on your beliefs or anything like that.
But I don't want you to continue looking at something like your relationship and expecting something different that isn't different.
And by developing a belief system that what you see today is the truth of what will be, then you make decisions from that point.
(14:23):
I know they won't change, therefore I will blank. Does that mean leave?
Does that mean say, I can't take it anymore, you better stop or else?
Does that mean I can't be in this dangerous situation anymore, so I better leave?
Or I better start planning to leave? I better create an escape plan?
(14:44):
It could mean a number of things.
Some people are in emotionally abusive relationships where they can speak up and say, look, I've had enough.
I don't want you doing this anymore.
I don't want you making me feel guilty.
I don't want you making me feel bad.
I don't want you embarrassing me in front of friends.
I don't want to be judged every time I talk to somebody that you think is going to take me away, sweep me off my feet.
(15:08):
I don't want to deal with that.
I don't want to deal with your insecurities. I want to live my life.
I want to be accepted as I am. I want to be trusted.
So there are people in relationships where that can be spoken and then you'll have a real conversation.
And then there are some relationships where you might say that and you could be hurt.
(15:30):
And so the disclaimer, pick your battles wisely is wise advice.
But hopefully most people listening to this show, hopefully all of them aren't in that kind of violent relationship.
I think there's a difference between a violent relationship and someone who's being emotionally abusive, who's taking advantage
(15:51):
of you emotionally, turning your emotions around back onto you. It's still dangerous.
It can be emotionally and even physically dangerous.
Not necessarily that they would become physical with you, but in your own body.
Like this person who wrote in their email said, I feel it. I feel it in my body.
(16:12):
My mind and body are telling me, Hey, it's probably time to end this because my, my marriage has been unrecoverable for a long time. There's emotional abuse and narcissistic tendencies.
And she experienced those things from day one, she says.
And then she forgave him, but she also worked harder and harder to make things work for him.
(16:36):
When you have to work that hard to make a relationship work for your partner, then your partner is not doing anything. You're doing all the work.
If you are doing all the work in the relationship, then it is not a relationship.
A relationship requires the work of both people taking responsibility for their role in the relationship, supporting each
(16:58):
other, wanting to see each other happy, accepting each other as they are and having our squabbles and our little arguments,
but coming back to a point where we want the other person to be happy.
That's what a relationship should look like.
It shouldn't look like I need to do everything to make sure they're happy. It shouldn't ever look like that.
(17:21):
If my wife ever said, nothing I do ever makes you happy. Wow.
I would have to reflect hard on that because that would just blow my mind.
That's one of my primary goals is to make sure she's happy.
I mean, it sounds a little dysfunctional when I say it that way, but I want her to be happy because if she's happy, the relationship is stronger.
(17:44):
We bond more and we are both happy because I like happy wife, happy life.
She does the same for me because we are both interested in each other's happiness. That's how I define love.
When you support the other person's happiness and you support the decisions that make them happy.
There's nothing more I want to see than a smile on my wife's face.
(18:08):
That's how a relationship should be, but that's equal. Both people have to want that.
Both people have to want the other person to be happy.
If one person is guilting the other person, that's the opposite. That's abusive. It's hurtful. It's not loving or supportive.
(18:30):
I'm going to conclude with this person's actual question in the message.
She wrote, in your experience, what are the signs of knowing when it's over?
When you know you'll be the instigator of the split.
I thought about writing a bullet list and then just reading you what I wrote down, but I think the answer is a lot shorter, a lot simpler.
(18:57):
One of the questions that comes to mind is if I woke up tomorrow and there was a Dear John or Jane or whatever note that said,
I've left, I've hurt you a lot and I realize I need to work on myself and I'm going to leave you alone and I hope you have a great life. How does that feel?
(19:17):
You're going to go through some emotions there, like, whoa, what's going on here? How do I process this?
How does it feel, not only in the moment, but an hour later?
How about the time you go to bed that night and they're not there? How does that feel?
If it feels freeing, then you already know your answer.
(19:43):
If it feels scary, but freeing, then you know your answer.
If freeing is in there anywhere, if liberation is in there anywhere, then you know your answer.
When it feels freeing, the answer is you want to be free.
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And you might maybe like or love a lot of what the relationship offers and a lot of what your partner offers and whatever,
but if you feel freed when you imagine them not in your life, that's your answer.
The worry is, what if I make the wrong choice?
What if I feel that in the moment, but I feel regret later?
(20:27):
The truth is always in the moment.
The truth of what you should do next is always in the moment. Does that mean it's always right?
It's your truth, but is it right?
I'm going to be honest, who cares? Who cares if you're wrong?
Okay, so you say, look, I'm glad they're gone, but then you regret it a week later.
(20:51):
And then you decide, look, I want to work things out. I want to call them up. I want to work things out. Or maybe you haven't left. Maybe they haven't left.
Maybe you're still in the same house. I'm going to have this conversation.
Look, I can't live like the way we've been living, but I do want to see if we can work things out. Great.
I mean, there's no reason you can't do that.
(21:13):
What if they go and find somebody else? Wow.
If they found somebody else that quick, then what was the relationship in the first place?
Someone who loves you, someone who cares about you, who wants you to be happy, and someone who is happy to be with you is not going to want to leave.
They're not going to want to go off and find somebody else.
They're going to want to work things out.
(21:35):
So if you said, look, I can't live like this, and something needs to change or else, and then they leave, and then they go
find somebody else, that tells you where your relationship stood.
So I look at decision-making as a process of looking at what's true today, not what might be tomorrow. Is it true today?
(22:02):
Do I feel free imagining that they're not in my life anymore?
Yeah, I feel free, but I still feel lonely, and I still feel like we have other things that we enjoyed together, and I really
wish those existed, but this other stuff didn't.
But if there's freedom in there, and I'm not talking about 5% freedom.
(22:22):
I mean, any one of us in a relationship, even great relationships, enjoy freedom.
We enjoy doing our own thing, but we love getting back together and sharing what we did, or maybe just sharing time together and not sharing what we did. It's just a different feeling.
I'm talking about freedom that you feel you are no longer oppressed.
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You feel like you can be accepted as you are, who you are.
Whatever you're doing in your life, you feel like you have support.
That's the difference between the feeling of freedom when you just want to work on your own projects or whatever, versus the
feeling of freedom that you aren't accepted as you are, that you are being controlled or manipulated or made to feel bad for being who you are.
(23:14):
That is the kind of freedom, the freedom from that. That's what I'm talking about.
When you feel that, you know your answer.
So she wrote, what are the signs of knowing when it's over? That's one sign, for sure.
Just imagine you waking up tomorrow and they left you a note and they're gone.
You're going to go through a lot of thoughts and emotions, but how does it feel that night?
(23:36):
You know, the next night and how does it feel in the next week and the next year?
So that's one way to look at it.
Another way to look at it is imagine nothing ever changes. How will you feel about that?
I think that's a great question to ask yourself.
If nothing ever changes and they never heal, they never grow, they never evolve into any different version of themselves. How will that feel?
(24:07):
Five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, nothing ever changed. Are you okay with it? It's another way to ask it.
Am I going to be okay if nothing ever changes?
Because if you say, no, I won't, you have an answer. That's a sign.
That's a, that's a sign this person's looking for.
(24:27):
And I know I'm kind of glossing over the actual question, which is, uh, what are the signs of knowing when it's over, when
you'll be the instigator of the split?
And this is what I look for.
If you don't know, if you are going to have to instigate the split, the divorce, the separation, whatever it is, and you're
just waiting for the next miracle, or you're hoping that things will change, but then you realize, oh boy, if nothing ever
(24:52):
changes, I'm going to have to instigate the split.
How do I know if I'm going to be the one to do this?
Or, you know, that's kind of the question.
Um, I look at it this way.
If they're bugged by you so much and they haven't left, they won't.
I've seen relationships where somebody was so annoyed and frustrated with the other person so much, but they never left, but
(25:20):
they still blamed the other person for everything wrong with the relationship, but they're not leaving.
And that's what their relationship has been and will be long-term.
This may not be 100% true all the time, but that's how I see things.
I see that someone who is really irritated and can't accept the other person as they are and tries to make them feel bad,
(25:42):
tries to control them, turns their emotions around on them, just makes them feel awful and miserable and unworthy and unlovable, yet they haven't left.
It's just, when you see something like that, it's confusing.
First of all, if you hate that person so much, which it seems you do, why are you still there?
But when they don't leave, that means they won't. So they gain something from staying.
(26:07):
I don't know if it's a power trip.
I mean, I do know there are many reasons they stay.
But one of the reasons they could be they like controlling. They like controlling you.
Another reason could be that they're so insecure that they can't be without a partner, but the partner they have, they can't accept as they are.
And so what they do is because they're insecure, like having a fear of abandonment or a fear of being alone, they will stay
(26:31):
in the relationship and continue hurting the person they're with or controlling or whatever. It's all painful.
And try to get their securities met by keeping you in their life and trying to control you and make you feel bad and make
you feel unworthy and unlovable, even though they're trying to get those very same things from you. Why do they do that, Paul?
(26:55):
Because that's how they learned that they have very unstable, unhelpful, very toxic ways to cope with challenges in life.
And they've never learned how to relate to others in a healthy way because of something that happened in their upbringing.
A number of things could go on and go wrong in their upbringing. And so that's when we learn.
(27:20):
We learn when we're young, how we're going to be when we're older.
We learn how to relate to others when we're young.
And we learn how to protect ourselves in sometimes unhealthy ways.
We learn how to cope with challenges in unhealthy ways.
And then we bring all these old unhealthy coping skills and the ways to relate to others into our adult relationships.
(27:40):
And we either mess them up or we figure out what doesn't work and stop doing that. We heal. We work on ourselves. We continue to improve ourselves.
I believe in bringing the best version of ourselves into our relationships.
So we bring as few dysfunctions as we possibly can so that if those dysfunctions do appear, then hopefully we are able to
(28:06):
work on them and continue to improve ourselves more so we don't mess up somebody else's life.
I mean, I'm talking mainly to controlling, hurtful, emotionally abusive people who haven't worked on this stuff yet.
Work on yourself, improve yourself, then get into a relationship, and then you do your best.
(28:30):
Because people bring out the best in us, and they bring out the worst in us.
The closest people in our lives will bring out the best and the worst in us.
And hopefully we can work on the worst of us, the worst in ourselves, as we go through the relationship.
And hopefully the other person will too, because we both have to work on ourselves.
(28:51):
We don't want to work on each other. That's what emotionally abusive people do.
They work on the other person to change for them.
The victim of emotional abuse works on themselves to change for the other person.
I hope this helps the person who wrote.
I hope this helps you if you're listening and it applies to you.
And of course, I hope it doesn't apply to you, but you wouldn't be here if it didn't.
(29:12):
So I want you to stay strong, stay in the know, keep learning about yourself, keep learning about all the behaviors that make
you feel bad, unworthy, unlovable, and just basically unaccepted. It's the feeling of oppression.
Because you are lovable, you are worthy, you are important, and you deserve somebody who treats you with respect and kindness.
(29:39):
And you'll hear that again at the very end of this episode. Thanks for listening.
Share this with others who might benefit.
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200 point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
(30:04):
And if you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about, and you want to change that
about yourself, sign up for the program I was talking about at the very beginning of this episode is called Healed Being.
And it walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
(30:25):
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show, where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
safe listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone, and you're not going crazy.
(30:45):
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love.
And you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship, from simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors. You deserve respect and kindness.
(00:10):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host Paul Colaianni.
Welcome to another episode of Love and Abuse.
If this is your first time, then, how can I say this, I'm sorry that you have to tune in to a show like this.
(00:35):
At the same time, some people will tune in just to find out what kind of behavior is healthy in a relationship.
So not everyone's in a controlling or manipulative relationship.
Some people want to know if their relationship is unhealthy, toxic, abusive.
And others, like this wrote to me, I've got it in front of me right now, who said, I think my marriage has been unrecoverable
(01:02):
for a long time, but I still find myself hoping for a miracle when we get along.
I think when you are in a state of, I hope it gets better.
I don't think I've ever heard from anyone who says, I hope it gets better, and then they write back and say, it got better.
(01:23):
Unless the person that was very difficult or controlling or emotionally abusive went through some sort of transformation or
a program like the one I run, Healed Being, or they went to therapy, something had to have happened, something majorly different.
Because we bring ourselves into the relationship, and if that's who they are, then that's who they are showing up as, because that's who they are.
(01:53):
So they may have started off differently.
They may have started off as kind and caring and supportive, and then things changed.
The honeymoon period ended, and then they started acting in their default patterns and their default behaviors.
And when they do that, the real person comes out.
(02:14):
Now that doesn't mean that somebody who's controlling, that's who they are deep down, because a lot of abusive and controlling
behaviors come from a place of fear, unresolved anger, unresolved trauma from the past.
And so we bring our unresolved traumas, our unhealed wounds into a relationship, and those things usually appear a few months after the relationship starts.
(02:46):
It's not an exact timeline, but I typically see two to four months, sometimes six months, sometimes a year, sometimes when you get married.
We start showing our unresolved, unhealed components of ourselves.
And so when those things come out, we think, why are they changing? But they're not changing. Even in ourselves, we're not changing.
(03:13):
That's who we are and what we have inside of us.
It doesn't mean we have to stay that way.
It doesn't mean that's who we are forever. Some people will choose to change. Some people won't.
Some people will choose to look at their unresolved traumas and unhealed wounds and decide to work on those things.
(03:34):
And when they do that, maybe they'll heal.
Maybe they'll reflect on all the ways they've been behaving and change those ways. Maybe they'll show up differently.
But again, something major needs to happen.
If you are in a relationship where you're wondering if things will get better or you're waiting for something to change, you
(03:55):
need to see something big happening on their end or something big happening in general. Something major needs to happen.
It's very rare that somebody is doing hurtful behaviors, for example, and then they stop and think, hmm, I shouldn't be hurting that person anymore. I think I'll change.
(04:17):
It's very rare for that to happen just out of the blue. Something big needs to happen.
This is why if you've been listening a while, you've heard me say this.
This is why emotionally abusive people don't normally change until you either say, I've had enough and I'm leaving or you
(04:39):
better stop doing what you're doing or else that's when they realize, oh, what I'm doing is really bad and I need to look at that.
Or they'll say, I better stop doing what I'm doing even though I don't believe what I'm doing is wrong. That can happen too. How do I tell the difference? I know, right?
(05:01):
You tell the difference when it happens.
If they do change in a few weeks, you'll see if it's real. It's typically what happens.
Somebody will either stop doing some bad or hurtful behaviors for a few weeks, get you on their good side again, get you feeling
comfortable and safe, and then their default behaviors come back. That's how you can tell.
(05:26):
They may change for a few weeks and then they come back.
I know the question is, well, how do I know it's real this time? How do I know it's real?
How do I know if what they're doing is authentic or not?
Got to wait longer than a few weeks and you have to reintroduce what triggered them before to find out if they truly are in
(05:46):
a different space, in a different headspace, in a different emotional space, if they truly are healing.
Because you won't be able to tell if somebody's healing if they're faking it, if you don't reintroduce the triggers that caused
them to react in the first place.
So if your partner, for example, gets really jealous when you talk to somebody of the opposite sex or the same sex, if you're
(06:13):
in the same sex relationship, if they get jealous and they get insecure and they say things, they make you feel bad for talking to that person.
And then they say, I've changed, I'm healing, I'm feeling better.
There should be no problem with you talking to someone that could make them think it could be a potential partner.
(06:34):
So if you could talk to someone the same way you used to talk to them and your partner doesn't have a problem with it, oh
yeah, you guys have a good time.
Then you know they're changing or at least they're biting their tongue and working on it in themselves.
Now, again, they can fake that for a few weeks, but eventually there's a buildup inside of them. I can't take it anymore. You were talking to that person. I can't take it. Don't talk to those people. You'll experience that.
(07:07):
This is why I often say that if emotionally abusive people listen to this show, they might get all these tools and tips on
how to fake it until the other person feels comfortable.
And then the other person thinks, oh no, if they listen to this show and get all those tools and tips, all this advice, am I going to be fooled?
You will probably be fooled for about a week or two.
(07:30):
And then again, the default behaviors will come out because there's a buildup.
Because if somebody doesn't work on their old emotional traumas that are causing the emotional triggers today, it will come out. Those things will come out. They need to heal.
They need to work on that stuff.
They need to address why they react the way they do.
(07:53):
It's usually because they're poor at coping.
They developed poor or unhealthy coping skills as a child or in their childhood.
And growing up, they apply those poor coping skills to adult relationships, which don't apply to adult relationships anymore.
They only applied as a child because the child tried to figure out exactly how to survive situations, whether they were deadly
(08:18):
or not, whether they were dangerous or not.
They felt like there was danger, so they would develop coping mechanisms.
It's just one little aspect of why somebody becomes emotionally abusive later on in life. But that is very typical.
That is what happened to me as a kid.
I grew up in an alcoholic home and I realized it was very dangerous to be around the alcoholic when they were drunk and they were very dangerous.
(08:48):
And so I developed these coping mechanisms back then by hiding, being quiet, not honoring myself, meaning not standing up
and saying, hey, shut up, don't hurt my mom, you know, things like that.
I'm sorry if that's triggering for anyone, but that's that was what I dealt with.
And I would have to learn how to survive.
(09:11):
And so when we're children, we don't have these tools, unless somebody taught us back then, but we do.
We don't have the tools to survive, so we make them up on our own.
It's like being introduced to an alien planet and learning how to live on that planet, not knowing what's coming next.
And then there's a storm that happens on the planet.
(09:33):
So you have to build yourself a shelter and you don't know how any of the materials work, what their resistance or resiliency is.
And so you try to put something together and maybe it doesn't work the first time, but maybe after the fifth or sixth or 10th time, you got something to work.
So you made it up on your own. You figured it out. But is it the best material?
(09:57):
Is it the best way to protect yourself? You don't know. You just know it worked.
And so you probably will use that same logic as you grow up, as you continue to survive on the planet, knowing that the materials
that you found work in this respect, but maybe they don't work for a different type of storm.
(10:18):
You know, there's all kinds of things that we teach ourselves when we're children or that we learn from others that may be unhealthy or unresourceful.
They just don't work like they're supposed to.
And then when we get into a different environment with different people, aliens, when we get around people that are no longer
our caretakers or no longer our parents, and they are just different to us, there are their equals and other adults because
(10:46):
we're growing up and we're trying to use these old tools and resources and we're really messing it up.
People become emotionally abusive because they're still using these old tools and resources and they think it's right.
They think that what they're doing is the right thing to do because it worked when I was six.
And it's not that they're thinking of this consciously. It just became ingrained.
(11:10):
And this is how I'm supposed to act.
I'm supposed to be controlling of other people so that I stay safe. That's how I live my life. That might be their thought process. I'm supposed to be controlling.
Even though it doesn't make sense to somebody who's not controlling.
It doesn't make sense to somebody who's being controlled.
If that doesn't make sense, why would you want to hurt me?
I hurt you to stay safe because that's how I learned. That might be their thought process.
(11:36):
So I want to visit this person's message that wrote to me and said, well first, I'm still hoping for a miracle when we get along. I think I answered that.
If there's no major change like what this person wrote, a miracle, you're not going to see it.
And so you can wait and wait and wait.
(11:58):
But if there's no forward progress on their end, you're not going to see forward progress.
If they don't say like, if they don't say, I'm going to go to therapy tomorrow, but they don't go, then that's not progress.
If they say instead, I don't need help. You do. That's not forward progress. And so it creates a trend.
(12:21):
And you look at the trend line from the last one year, five year, 10 years, what has happened with them? Have they done anything? Are they doing anything? Because if they aren't, they won't.
That's just a belief that you have to create in yourself.
If somebody isn't doing anything to help themselves, to work on themselves, to get help in some way, then they won't.
(12:46):
What you see today is what will be tomorrow.
What you see today is all you have as your evidence for what will be.
So what you see today, you have to believe is the truth of what will be.
That requires probably altering your belief system because hoping that someone will change when there's been no evidence of
(13:12):
it so far, requires you to alter what you believe.
Because you may believe that they could change because you saw it at the beginning.
You saw who they, who you wanted at the beginning, who you really loved at the beginning.
But now that's not that person anymore. Their default behaviors are showing up.
And so now your beliefs have really relaxed.
(13:36):
And we need to alter that belief system to realize that what you see today is what will be. And accept that as truth. They could surprise you tomorrow. I understand that.
But accept what you see as truth today because otherwise you rely on quite possibly a false belief system.
(13:58):
And I say that carefully because I don't mean to tread on your beliefs or anything like that.
But I don't want you to continue looking at something like your relationship and expecting something different that isn't different.
And by developing a belief system that what you see today is the truth of what will be, then you make decisions from that point.
(14:23):
I know they won't change, therefore I will blank. Does that mean leave?
Does that mean say, I can't take it anymore, you better stop or else?
Does that mean I can't be in this dangerous situation anymore, so I better leave?
Or I better start planning to leave? I better create an escape plan?
(14:44):
It could mean a number of things.
Some people are in emotionally abusive relationships where they can speak up and say, look, I've had enough.
I don't want you doing this anymore.
I don't want you making me feel guilty.
I don't want you making me feel bad.
I don't want you embarrassing me in front of friends.
I don't want to be judged every time I talk to somebody that you think is going to take me away, sweep me off my feet.
(15:08):
I don't want to deal with that.
I don't want to deal with your insecurities. I want to live my life.
I want to be accepted as I am. I want to be trusted.
So there are people in relationships where that can be spoken and then you'll have a real conversation.
And then there are some relationships where you might say that and you could be hurt.
(15:30):
And so the disclaimer, pick your battles wisely is wise advice.
But hopefully most people listening to this show, hopefully all of them aren't in that kind of violent relationship.
I think there's a difference between a violent relationship and someone who's being emotionally abusive, who's taking advantage
(15:51):
of you emotionally, turning your emotions around back onto you. It's still dangerous.
It can be emotionally and even physically dangerous.
Not necessarily that they would become physical with you, but in your own body.
Like this person who wrote in their email said, I feel it. I feel it in my body.
(16:12):
My mind and body are telling me, Hey, it's probably time to end this because my, my marriage has been unrecoverable for a long time. There's emotional abuse and narcissistic tendencies.
And she experienced those things from day one, she says.
And then she forgave him, but she also worked harder and harder to make things work for him.
(16:36):
When you have to work that hard to make a relationship work for your partner, then your partner is not doing anything. You're doing all the work.
If you are doing all the work in the relationship, then it is not a relationship.
A relationship requires the work of both people taking responsibility for their role in the relationship, supporting each
(16:58):
other, wanting to see each other happy, accepting each other as they are and having our squabbles and our little arguments,
but coming back to a point where we want the other person to be happy.
That's what a relationship should look like.
It shouldn't look like I need to do everything to make sure they're happy. It shouldn't ever look like that.
(17:21):
If my wife ever said, nothing I do ever makes you happy. Wow.
I would have to reflect hard on that because that would just blow my mind.
That's one of my primary goals is to make sure she's happy.
I mean, it sounds a little dysfunctional when I say it that way, but I want her to be happy because if she's happy, the relationship is stronger.
(17:44):
We bond more and we are both happy because I like happy wife, happy life.
She does the same for me because we are both interested in each other's happiness. That's how I define love.
When you support the other person's happiness and you support the decisions that make them happy.
There's nothing more I want to see than a smile on my wife's face.
(18:08):
That's how a relationship should be, but that's equal. Both people have to want that.
Both people have to want the other person to be happy.
If one person is guilting the other person, that's the opposite. That's abusive. It's hurtful. It's not loving or supportive.
(18:30):
I'm going to conclude with this person's actual question in the message.
She wrote, in your experience, what are the signs of knowing when it's over?
When you know you'll be the instigator of the split.
I thought about writing a bullet list and then just reading you what I wrote down, but I think the answer is a lot shorter, a lot simpler.
(18:57):
One of the questions that comes to mind is if I woke up tomorrow and there was a Dear John or Jane or whatever note that said,
I've left, I've hurt you a lot and I realize I need to work on myself and I'm going to leave you alone and I hope you have a great life. How does that feel?
(19:17):
You're going to go through some emotions there, like, whoa, what's going on here? How do I process this?
How does it feel, not only in the moment, but an hour later?
How about the time you go to bed that night and they're not there? How does that feel?
If it feels freeing, then you already know your answer.
(19:43):
If it feels scary, but freeing, then you know your answer.
If freeing is in there anywhere, if liberation is in there anywhere, then you know your answer.
When it feels freeing, the answer is you want to be free.
(20:04):
And you might maybe like or love a lot of what the relationship offers and a lot of what your partner offers and whatever,
but if you feel freed when you imagine them not in your life, that's your answer.
The worry is, what if I make the wrong choice?
What if I feel that in the moment, but I feel regret later?
(20:27):
The truth is always in the moment.
The truth of what you should do next is always in the moment. Does that mean it's always right?
It's your truth, but is it right?
I'm going to be honest, who cares? Who cares if you're wrong?
Okay, so you say, look, I'm glad they're gone, but then you regret it a week later.
(20:51):
And then you decide, look, I want to work things out. I want to call them up. I want to work things out. Or maybe you haven't left. Maybe they haven't left.
Maybe you're still in the same house. I'm going to have this conversation.
Look, I can't live like the way we've been living, but I do want to see if we can work things out. Great.
I mean, there's no reason you can't do that.
(21:13):
What if they go and find somebody else? Wow.
If they found somebody else that quick, then what was the relationship in the first place?
Someone who loves you, someone who cares about you, who wants you to be happy, and someone who is happy to be with you is not going to want to leave.
They're not going to want to go off and find somebody else.
They're going to want to work things out.
(21:35):
So if you said, look, I can't live like this, and something needs to change or else, and then they leave, and then they go
find somebody else, that tells you where your relationship stood.
So I look at decision-making as a process of looking at what's true today, not what might be tomorrow. Is it true today?
(22:02):
Do I feel free imagining that they're not in my life anymore?
Yeah, I feel free, but I still feel lonely, and I still feel like we have other things that we enjoyed together, and I really
wish those existed, but this other stuff didn't.
But if there's freedom in there, and I'm not talking about 5% freedom.
(22:22):
I mean, any one of us in a relationship, even great relationships, enjoy freedom.
We enjoy doing our own thing, but we love getting back together and sharing what we did, or maybe just sharing time together and not sharing what we did. It's just a different feeling.
I'm talking about freedom that you feel you are no longer oppressed.
(22:45):
You feel like you can be accepted as you are, who you are.
Whatever you're doing in your life, you feel like you have support.
That's the difference between the feeling of freedom when you just want to work on your own projects or whatever, versus the
feeling of freedom that you aren't accepted as you are, that you are being controlled or manipulated or made to feel bad for being who you are.
(23:14):
That is the kind of freedom, the freedom from that. That's what I'm talking about.
When you feel that, you know your answer.
So she wrote, what are the signs of knowing when it's over? That's one sign, for sure.
Just imagine you waking up tomorrow and they left you a note and they're gone.
You're going to go through a lot of thoughts and emotions, but how does it feel that night?
(23:36):
You know, the next night and how does it feel in the next week and the next year?
So that's one way to look at it.
Another way to look at it is imagine nothing ever changes. How will you feel about that?
I think that's a great question to ask yourself.
If nothing ever changes and they never heal, they never grow, they never evolve into any different version of themselves. How will that feel?
(24:07):
Five years from now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, nothing ever changed. Are you okay with it? It's another way to ask it.
Am I going to be okay if nothing ever changes?
Because if you say, no, I won't, you have an answer. That's a sign.
That's a, that's a sign this person's looking for.
(24:27):
And I know I'm kind of glossing over the actual question, which is, uh, what are the signs of knowing when it's over, when
you'll be the instigator of the split?
And this is what I look for.
If you don't know, if you are going to have to instigate the split, the divorce, the separation, whatever it is, and you're
just waiting for the next miracle, or you're hoping that things will change, but then you realize, oh boy, if nothing ever
(24:52):
changes, I'm going to have to instigate the split.
How do I know if I'm going to be the one to do this?
Or, you know, that's kind of the question.
Um, I look at it this way.
If they're bugged by you so much and they haven't left, they won't.
I've seen relationships where somebody was so annoyed and frustrated with the other person so much, but they never left, but
(25:20):
they still blamed the other person for everything wrong with the relationship, but they're not leaving.
And that's what their relationship has been and will be long-term.
This may not be 100% true all the time, but that's how I see things.
I see that someone who is really irritated and can't accept the other person as they are and tries to make them feel bad,
(25:42):
tries to control them, turns their emotions around on them, just makes them feel awful and miserable and unworthy and unlovable, yet they haven't left.
It's just, when you see something like that, it's confusing.
First of all, if you hate that person so much, which it seems you do, why are you still there?
But when they don't leave, that means they won't. So they gain something from staying.
(26:07):
I don't know if it's a power trip.
I mean, I do know there are many reasons they stay.
But one of the reasons they could be they like controlling. They like controlling you.
Another reason could be that they're so insecure that they can't be without a partner, but the partner they have, they can't accept as they are.
And so what they do is because they're insecure, like having a fear of abandonment or a fear of being alone, they will stay
(26:31):
in the relationship and continue hurting the person they're with or controlling or whatever. It's all painful.
And try to get their securities met by keeping you in their life and trying to control you and make you feel bad and make
you feel unworthy and unlovable, even though they're trying to get those very same things from you. Why do they do that, Paul?
(26:55):
Because that's how they learned that they have very unstable, unhelpful, very toxic ways to cope with challenges in life.
And they've never learned how to relate to others in a healthy way because of something that happened in their upbringing.
A number of things could go on and go wrong in their upbringing. And so that's when we learn.
(27:20):
We learn when we're young, how we're going to be when we're older.
We learn how to relate to others when we're young.
And we learn how to protect ourselves in sometimes unhealthy ways.
We learn how to cope with challenges in unhealthy ways.
And then we bring all these old unhealthy coping skills and the ways to relate to others into our adult relationships.
(27:40):
And we either mess them up or we figure out what doesn't work and stop doing that. We heal. We work on ourselves. We continue to improve ourselves.
I believe in bringing the best version of ourselves into our relationships.
So we bring as few dysfunctions as we possibly can so that if those dysfunctions do appear, then hopefully we are able to
(28:06):
work on them and continue to improve ourselves more so we don't mess up somebody else's life.
I mean, I'm talking mainly to controlling, hurtful, emotionally abusive people who haven't worked on this stuff yet.
Work on yourself, improve yourself, then get into a relationship, and then you do your best.
(28:30):
Because people bring out the best in us, and they bring out the worst in us.
The closest people in our lives will bring out the best and the worst in us.
And hopefully we can work on the worst of us, the worst in ourselves, as we go through the relationship.
And hopefully the other person will too, because we both have to work on ourselves.
(28:51):
We don't want to work on each other. That's what emotionally abusive people do.
They work on the other person to change for them.
The victim of emotional abuse works on themselves to change for the other person.
I hope this helps the person who wrote.
I hope this helps you if you're listening and it applies to you.
And of course, I hope it doesn't apply to you, but you wouldn't be here if it didn't.
(29:12):
So I want you to stay strong, stay in the know, keep learning about yourself, keep learning about all the behaviors that make
you feel bad, unworthy, unlovable, and just basically unaccepted. It's the feeling of oppression.
Because you are lovable, you are worthy, you are important, and you deserve somebody who treats you with respect and kindness.
(29:39):
And you'll hear that again at the very end of this episode. Thanks for listening.
Share this with others who might benefit.
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200 point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
(30:04):
And if you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about, and you want to change that
about yourself, sign up for the program I was talking about at the very beginning of this episode is called Healed Being.
And it walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
(30:25):
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show, where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
safe listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone, and you're not going crazy.
(30:45):
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love.
And you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
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