March 11, 2025 • 32 mins
When you get into an emotionally abusive relationship, you have no idea what you're walking into. When you figure it out, you might have to make some tough choices. One of those choices might lead to getting deeper into something you know is bad for you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship.
(00:05):
From simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors, you deserve respect and kindness.
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
(00:25):
This may be just in time for some people, and this may be too late for others, but I'm going to talk about it anyway.
Somebody sent me a message that, um, I'll just read you the message and I'll take out some details, but the person wrote,
I'm not sure what compelled me to reach out to you at this point in my life.
I left my violent and abusive relationship a couple of years ago, and, um, it has been quite a while since I turned on your podcast.
(00:50):
In fact, I think I tried to forget a lot from that part of my life, but today for some unknown reason, Love and Abuse popped
into my head and I realized that I was ready to acknowledge what terrible trouble I was in and how much you helped me along the way.
I listened to your podcast every day at work.
You were a voice when I was silent.
You showed me that I was not in fact crazy and that the relationship I was in was extremely unhealthy.
(01:17):
I built up the courage to finally call the police and I provided enough evidence that my ex-partner was convicted of felony domestic violence.
I won custody of my child and, uh, while the physical pain inflicted upon me was awful, nothing compared to the emotional abuse.
You were such a beacon of light in my life at that time, and I am forever indebted to you for giving me the resiliency and
(01:43):
courage to step away from the toxicity that was slowly eating me alive. Thank you, Paul, forever.
You saved me in a big way.
When I first read that, I, I teared up.
I mean, this is just so hard to read and I'm looking at it thinking, I'm so glad this person took steps to protect herself.
(02:05):
She took steps to protect her children.
She was in a very tough situation that some people listening might be in right now or might get into.
So I want to thank that person for sharing that with me. It was very humbling.
And at the same time, I did very little except give you information and you did these massive steps to protect yourself and
(02:32):
get into a better space, better place, even though it was probably the scariest thing you've had to do. I mean, think about that.
You call the police, you call somebody on your partner, you call somebody to come over and arrest or take them in because they're so hurtful.
(02:55):
And she was in a violent situation for sure.
And I want you to, um, if you, if you haven't considered this, I want you to consider not the person who wrote, but anyone
listening that the emotional abuse was more long lasting, more impactful than the physical abuse. This is what she said.
(03:17):
I've heard from people, they tell me that the victims of abusive behavior, they've written to me and said, it would be easier if they just hit me.
That way I could justify leaving or whatever their next step is.
It would be easier if they just hit me.
And so here we have somebody who has been hit and did take the steps to leave.
(03:41):
And she got herself and her child into a better situation, but it wasn't without fear.
It wasn't without a lot of challenge, I'm sure.
And she wanted to put it all behind her, like she said, but love and abuse popped in her head.
And she decided to reach out to me and share this.
And I, I have a feeling there were probably other stories like this, where somebody has left an abusive situation and they
(04:05):
just want to leave it behind them.
And, um, I am so proud of people who take this massive step.
And I am so proud of people who are just listening to this information that I share or looking at other resources, looking
into other resources and finding out all they can about the situation they're in, the relationship they're in, the behaviors they're experiencing.
(04:33):
That is the key, or at least the first step.
The very first step is just to find out what's going on. Figure it out. What are the behaviors? What's happening inside of you? Figure that out. Reflect on how you feel.
Reflect on what you're thinking on a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day basis, and ask yourself how you feel and what you want to think about.
(05:01):
I'm sure there are many people out there thinking, I just don't want to have to think about this stuff.
I don't want to have to think about if they're going to do this behavior again, if they're going to call me that name again,
I don't want to have to think about it.
I just want to put it in the back of my mind or not think about it at all and hope it never happens again.
(05:22):
And then when it does happen again, then the cycle can repeat or will repeat because if it happened before, it probably will happen again.
And that's the trend I talk about. You look at the trend.
If it's happened more than once or twice, it's going to happen more than once or twice again.
And if it's a frequent thing, then it will happen frequently.
(05:45):
I don't say that to put you in a bad mood or anything.
I'm saying that to know what to expect. The first part is information gathering. You want to gather information.
You want to learn all you can.
Educate yourself so you know what you're dealing with.
There are all kinds of abusive behaviors.
(06:07):
We talk mostly about emotional abuse, but there obviously are physical abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, religious abuse.
And because there are so many types of abuse, some people don't even know they're in it. Financial abuse is huge.
One person, the abuser, for example, might be the moneymaker.
(06:27):
And the other person, the victim, relies on the moneymaker. So now what do they do? They feel stuck.
And that's something I kind of want to talk about today is the feeling of being stuck.
I'm sure this person who wrote to me felt stuck.
They probably thought there's nothing they can do and they can't leave because their partner was violent.
(06:48):
And stirring the pot, rocking the boat, whatever they do was going to cause more violence. I'm sure that's what they thought. Yet they found a way. They made their escape plan.
They mustered up the courage to do it.
And I'm not saying that that's what you need to do if you're in that type of environment.
(07:13):
I'm not saying that you should do that or not.
In fact, you'll learn as you do your information gathering that telling anyone to leave an abusive situation is not the right thing to do.
Which is why I never come on here and say, you need to leave.
And I read that all over the internet too. You need to leave that house. You need to leave that abuser. You need to leave right away.
(07:36):
I read that all over the internet.
And of course, personally, I can connect with that. I agree with it.
You shouldn't be in an abusive situation because I don't want to see you be abused.
I don't want to see you hurt.
I don't want to read a story about you being hurt. And I read them every day. And it's sad to me.
(07:57):
It's sad to me that people are in these relationships and there's nothing I can do except come on the air and say, this is what I know.
And I hope you are able to take this information and do something with it.
And that something could be a number of things.
In the typical emotionally abusive relationship, which probably none of them are typical, but there are commonalities.
(08:24):
But in the typical emotionally abusive relationship, you usually don't have to fear physical violence.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't, because I don't know your situation, but you usually don't have to fear physical violence.
And you can usually have a conversation with the other person to say something along the lines of, Hey, when you do this, it hurts me.
(08:46):
Could you please not do that anymore? I'm not saying it'll be effective.
I'm not saying that these are the magic words that will stop everything.
I'm saying that at least you can let them know that it is hurtful and they become conscious of it.
Because if they weren't for some reason before, they are now.
(09:08):
I like to make people conscious of their actions, their behaviors.
And even if they disagree with it, like they might say, I'm not hurting you. You're just being sensitive. Whatever I said, you took wrong.
Even if they said that, at least they're now aware that what they do and say is hurtful.
(09:31):
That's why I like to make people conscious.
You know, the perpetrators of hurtful behavior, the emotionally abusive people, they weren't aware before they become aware.
And then if they choose to abuse, or if it just comes out because they're emotionally triggered, then at least they're aware
that their behavior is hurtful because you advise them of such.
(09:56):
And again, I'm not saying, hey, you should advise them as such, because saying that might be irresponsible on my part.
But I do know that if they don't know, they have excuses.
If someone is emotionally abusive and they keep doing it because they never heard the words, when you do that, it hurts me, then they have an excuse.
(10:19):
So I like to take excuses out. Let's address those excuses.
Like if they don't really know, then letting them know it hurts you, makes them aware, even if they disagree with it.
You're just too sensitive, whatever they say.
Making them aware, lets them know that their behaviors are not acceptable to you and hurt. And that should be enough.
(10:45):
Telling somebody that their behavior is hurtful should be enough.
It should be enough to stop them from hurting you.
You know, I read that letter to you.
And again, thank you so much for writing that.
The person who wrote to me, I just read through that and was so touched and so happy that you'd left that abusive person. Because I know it wasn't easy.
(11:08):
Might've been the most difficult thing you've done.
And it was so difficult, you didn't even want to think about it again.
And you had to get to a point. What is this?
Many years later, where you could finally maybe have it pop in your head and not affect you as bad as it used to.
(11:28):
Have it not be another PTSD episode, thinking about the past and how awful it was, having to get through it and getting out of it. Again, very courageous. Thank you for sharing that.
And I want to share a story that I don't know if I've talked about it on the air or not. I might have once or twice.
(11:50):
My wife and I used to live in an apartment complex and below us on the next floor down, I heard this woman, she had their
door open and she was going, she was just crying.
I couldn't even understand what she was saying, but she was just, and I walked down the stairs and I saw the door open and
(12:10):
I'm looking at her and she's just crying.
She looked over at me and she kept crying.
She was just there with the door open crying out loud.
And I walked up to her and I said, what's going on? Are you okay?
And she didn't say what was happening.
But, um, I kind of opened the door a little bit and I saw her husband holding their child and he looked like, I don't know,
(12:36):
he looked either angry or there was a mixture, a mixture of anger and, uh, surprise or confusion, not really confusion, but
he looked like he was caught, like he was caught hurting her.
I actually walked into the apartment because something crazy was going on and I needed to find out.
And there was food on the wall.
(12:59):
She was crying at the front door, like I was saying, and I walked right up to him. He was holding his child.
And I don't recommend you do this.
Uh, the police are even afraid of domestic violence situations because anything could happen.
But I felt, I felt I needed to do something.
So I walked up to the guy and I said, look, I'm not here to judge.
(13:20):
I'm just going to take her with us so that she can calm down.
And of course, in my mind, I'm judging. I already know what happened.
I already know, at least, you know, this is my guess.
My guess what happened is that he hurt her.
And then because she was crying, trying to get attention, trying to get help, but not saying help me, he hurt me. She was just crying.
(13:46):
And so I looked at the guy and I said, again, I'm not here to judge.
Uh, I'm just going to take her.
You know, I tried to respect their space, even though my mind is saying, you son of a, you, you hurt her.
That's my mind is saying that, but trying to calm the situation down.
And I said, I'm going to take her with us and calm her down.
(14:06):
And he just looked at me and he was still, you know, he could tell he was still in that intensity, but he just nodded his head once.
Like he would, he approved of it. I didn't need his approval.
I was going to take her anyway, but I wanted to keep things calm.
And so my wife and I, we weren't married back then, but Asha and I took her upstairs and, um, we calmed her down. She finally calmed down.
(14:31):
And of course we asked, are you okay?
And we didn't really want to say what happened. We just said, are you okay?
Because what happened is, you know, she knows what happened and she's going to tell us what happened if she wants to, but
we didn't want to just dive into that highly intense situation and just have her explain things yet.
(14:52):
We just wanted to calm her down.
And so my wife stayed with her for a while.
And I, I think I went back downstairs.
I forget, I forget where I was, but my wife was upstairs with her.
And my wife told me later that as she calmed her down and they were able to connect a little bit and talk to each other, my
wife, who actually works with child sexual abuse victims, you know, adult children who have survived child sexual abuse, she
(15:16):
knew how to talk to her in a way that was permissive and safe.
She gave her a safe space to express herself.
However, this woman did not want to admit that, or that's the wrong word.
She did not want to say what happened. She was afraid.
She didn't want to say what happened because of, this is my own opinion, but the repercussions.
(15:41):
For example, if she went back and he asked, did you tell them anything?
She could honestly say, no, I didn't.
But my wife being a good communicator asked her the right questions. Did he hurt you?
Would you tell me if he hurt you?
She asked the right questions and without her saying much at all, she got to the truth.
(16:07):
So by the time I got back to our apartment, that woman had left and went back home.
She went right back into that relationship that she's been probably for years because their child was several years old.
So I'm assuming that they've been together for years.
And, um, the next time we saw them, he was happy. He was joyful.
(16:30):
He was inviting us to some gathering and she was kind of standoffish, but, um, you know, things had passed and I think he
thought he just got away with it.
I think he thought that since I didn't come back and cause any trouble with him, that we weren't aware.
(16:55):
I mean, that was a good thing that he believed that we weren't aware of what happened, or at least he believed that we weren't
going to get in the middle of that.
And so he treated us like, um, we were best friends after that.
And it was very awkward, but my wife had told that woman, come to us.
(17:16):
If you need help, come up here, we're here for you. And so she never did.
She never came back and maybe things calmed down in there, but we knew it was still a dangerous situation.
And, um, we told her that, you know, we have a safe place for you. I will protect you. We'll do our best. We'll get somebody involved.
(17:36):
And it's very difficult when you're dealing with a situation like this, because, uh, even if you call the police, it could make things worse.
If we went down there and saw what happened and we ended up calling the police, it may have made things worse.
And the professionals, all the people that deal with abuse victims and domestic violence say, don't call the police. It could make it worse.
(17:59):
And so, um, we didn't, it's just a hard place to be. We wanted to, and we didn't.
And at the same time, she knew where we were, so she could come up.
And we also knew that she might be too afraid to do that because of the repercussions.
It's a very difficult place to be in.
If you call the police, it makes things worse.
If you don't, it could be worse that way. Very difficult.
(18:23):
And I know there are people on both sides of this, and, uh, you may have strong opinions on this and I hear you. I really do.
I hear you, but I think we did our best that day.
And, um, we gave her that place to come to that safe place.
So my whole point of this story is about a month later, they were moving, they were moving to a place away from her family.
(18:50):
And I don't even know if his family was there, but they were moving to a house and she was going to be separated and isolated from her support system.
Not just us, but her family, her friends.
He was taking her somewhere else to be isolated.
(19:10):
They ended up moving and we never saw them again.
And to this day, I still, I wish I had known where they went, but what could I have done about it?
I think about her all the time.
I hope she found this show, but I think about her all the time and I, I just wish and hope and pray that she's okay.
(19:33):
Again, there's a reason I told this story.
The reason is there's a commitment that we can make in our lives, in your life.
You can make a commitment to take something to the next level or take it to a level that it hasn't been, that will lock you
in tighter into an abusive situation that you don't want to be in.
(19:58):
This woman was in a very difficult place.
There was a cultural thing here too.
Like they must stay married because that's how things are in their culture.
And so she felt very stuck and she felt like she had to commit and go through with it.
It's very hard to think about this in a cultural sense.
(20:20):
Like you're forced to be in an abusive relationship no matter what.
That doesn't make any sense to me, but I won't knock anybody's culture, but it doesn't make any sense that someone would be
forced to stay with someone regardless of abusive behaviors.
I'm just here to share with you that you need to gather enough information so that you know your options.
(20:44):
And especially in my point about this entire story and probably this entire episode is that you have to be careful what you commit to next.
She was in a marriage where her next commitment was to be more isolated away from her support system, away from her friends and family.
In that dangerous situation where there's domestic violence, physical violence, she felt like she had no choice maybe.
(21:13):
I don't know for sure if that's the case, but that's what I read into it and that's what my wife read into it.
We felt like she felt stuck and I create this show.
I create these episodes in hopes that you will hear something that gives you enough information, that gives you motivation,
(21:35):
that reminds you how important it is not to commit to something deeper and deeper that is harmful to you.
And at the same time, I can't say get out of it. I can't tell you to leave.
I can't tell you to get a divorce. I can't say any of that.
First of all, it's not my place, even though here I am telling you the danger of being in a situation like that.
(21:59):
But at the same time, everyone has to do it at their own pace when they're ready. And some people aren't ready.
Some people just can't step up and walk away.
There are a lot of people that are listening to this show right now that just can't walk away, or at least they believe they can't walk away.
And that's another point I want to make is that sometimes we tell ourselves that we're stuck when the reality is that we're
(22:27):
not really stuck, but we just really don't like the options.
You may not like the option of leaving someone and not having finances.
You might not like the option of sleeping on somebody else's couch.
You may not like the option of telling someone to stop their behaviors because it's dangerous, or you feel like there'll be
(22:51):
consequences that you don't want to suffer through. And so you feel stuck.
And I am just trying to iterate today. I'm trying to emphasize a point.
And the point is, if you already feel stuck, I want you to consider what happens next if there's another level of commitment.
(23:14):
Because once you put that into play inside your head, once you play that out and imagine the future with that next level of
commitment, whether it's moving somewhere and getting isolated, whether it's marrying someone that there's already issues
with, whether it's having a child with somebody that there are already issues with, or another child or whatever it is, that
(23:41):
next level of commitment, you just have to imagine it unfolding.
I mean, my wife, her previous marriage was to a sociopath and she was married for a long time.
And she put herself in a place of, well, there's nothing better.
And I don't want to be single.
And he was, he was a real piece of work.
And, uh, he put her through a lot of hell and he wanted a kid and she didn't.
(24:08):
And she had, I think she told me this.
She said, I don't want a kid with him.
I don't want a kid at all.
But with him, she didn't want one, but she felt like, okay, well, I'm married and this is what I'm supposed to do.
And so she had a kid with him and that tied them together in some way.
I mean, I think they got divorced a couple of years after that.
(24:29):
And then she became tied to him because of the shared custody of the child.
And she had to face so many nights of his lies.
Like I'll bring them back by six.
And he brings them back the next day, all these broken promises.
And she had to deal with it over and over again.
And then he didn't want to pay child support and all that stuff had to unfold.
(24:52):
And she had to go to court and she lost her house so much.
She committed to that next level with she didn't even like because she thought, okay, well, this is what you're supposed to do. I'm the wife.
This is what I'm supposed to do.
And, you know, there's more to it and I don't want to put words in her mouth.
So this is the gist I got of it though.
(25:12):
She committed to the next level, which is having a child.
And though she loves her child and I love her child. He's a great kid. He's grown up now.
She had to endure so many years of difficulty, of challenges, of her ex-husband smearing her name and telling lies to their
(25:35):
child and making her look like a terrible person.
Making her look like she was responsible for everything that was bad and wrong in the relationship and for getting him in
trouble with the court because he wouldn't pay child support. His own choice for not paying.
And he blamed her because there's no reason actually, because she didn't cause that problem. He did.
(26:01):
He stopped paying and he didn't want to pay.
And he told the judge he didn't want to pay.
So, you know, I don't want to tell you the whole story.
There's a lot of dirty laundry in there, but it was a big deal and she had to go through it for many, many years. And now she's free of that.
And she's happy she has a child.
She's not happy that she had it with him, but she's happy she has a child.
(26:23):
And it all worked out in the end, but she had to endure a lot.
That's why I see someone in a predicament like that, and maybe you're in a predicament like this or a commitment like this, and maybe you've already committed.
Maybe you've committed to that next level. Maybe you're there now.
That's why I keep creating this show.
(26:44):
I want to give you as much information as possible, but maybe if you haven't, maybe you are thinking about committing to the next level.
Maybe you are just about to step into that and you need some sort of guidance there.
This is my way of sharing with you that if there are already problems that you don't like and make you feel bad, those problems
(27:10):
typically, almost always, get worse with the next level of commitment.
And that next level could be healing. I won't take that away.
There could be healing in a relationship where somebody says, hey look, you got to stop hurting me or else I'm leaving or else I'm kicking you out.
There could be healing in the relationship. I've seen that happen.
(27:33):
You just have to figure that out. Is there going to be healing?
Because if there isn't, then that's when you commit to another level that might make things worse or you might feel more stuck.
And I'm trying to help you avoid feeling so stuck that you're just unhappy for as long as you are in that place.
(27:55):
But if there can be healing, that would be terrific.
I have a program that helps emotionally abusive people heal and grow and give them the best chance at saving a relationship
if there's still love in their heart.
Now if there's still love in your heart and the other person heals, there's a chance to rebuild or build anew, something better with this person.
(28:18):
But if the love has left your heart and it's pretty much sealed shut, the chances of rebuilding or reconciling or anything like that are very slim.
It can happen, but it's just it's not often.
Once you close your heart, it's pretty much closed after abuse.
So I hope this gives you something to think about and reflect upon.
(28:39):
It's not pleasant to think about this stuff, but it's reality for some people.
It might be a reality for you.
You might be in the the deepest, thickest part of it and you feel stuck.
That's why I keep doing this show and I want you to have as much information as possible educate yourself, continue along
the path that always emphasizes how important you are, how lovable you are, and how much you deserve respect and kindness.
(29:07):
And finally sometimes in order to see a change in a relationship, one person has to change.
It would be great if both people did, but at least one person has to change.
And unfortunately the typical abusive relationship, it's usually the victim of that abuse that has to change in order for things to change.
(29:28):
That doesn't mean you become passive and submissive and all that.
It just means whatever you're doing now, if it's not working, you may have to be the one that takes the next step.
Whatever that means, wherever that goes, but if you don't see the other person changing, they won't. And they don't until you change.
(29:51):
That might be hard to hear, but that's typically what I see.
I hope this helps somebody out there. I hope this helps you.
I want to thank that person for sharing that very heartfelt letter.
And I shared that for another reason, because if she can do it, you can too.
If she got out of that abusive toxic relationship and you're in one as well, you can take the steps you need to take as well.
(30:19):
It might take some planning and it might take some deep conversations with each other if you can have a conversation with this person.
And when you're in that dark place, there is a path to the light.
I think that's the best way to describe it.
And I'm willing to bet that this person didn't think she could do it either.
So whatever that means to you, however this helps you, stay strong and always remember who you are. Thanks for listening.
(30:43):
Share this with others who might benefit.
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200-point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
And if you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about and you want to change that
(31:08):
about yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
(31:30):
safe listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you're not alone and you're not going crazy.
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love.
And you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship.
(00:05):
From simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors, you deserve respect and kindness.
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
(00:25):
This may be just in time for some people, and this may be too late for others, but I'm going to talk about it anyway.
Somebody sent me a message that, um, I'll just read you the message and I'll take out some details, but the person wrote,
I'm not sure what compelled me to reach out to you at this point in my life.
I left my violent and abusive relationship a couple of years ago, and, um, it has been quite a while since I turned on your podcast.
(00:50):
In fact, I think I tried to forget a lot from that part of my life, but today for some unknown reason, Love and Abuse popped
into my head and I realized that I was ready to acknowledge what terrible trouble I was in and how much you helped me along the way.
I listened to your podcast every day at work.
You were a voice when I was silent.
You showed me that I was not in fact crazy and that the relationship I was in was extremely unhealthy.
(01:17):
I built up the courage to finally call the police and I provided enough evidence that my ex-partner was convicted of felony domestic violence.
I won custody of my child and, uh, while the physical pain inflicted upon me was awful, nothing compared to the emotional abuse.
You were such a beacon of light in my life at that time, and I am forever indebted to you for giving me the resiliency and
(01:43):
courage to step away from the toxicity that was slowly eating me alive. Thank you, Paul, forever.
You saved me in a big way.
When I first read that, I, I teared up.
I mean, this is just so hard to read and I'm looking at it thinking, I'm so glad this person took steps to protect herself.
(02:05):
She took steps to protect her children.
She was in a very tough situation that some people listening might be in right now or might get into.
So I want to thank that person for sharing that with me. It was very humbling.
And at the same time, I did very little except give you information and you did these massive steps to protect yourself and
(02:32):
get into a better space, better place, even though it was probably the scariest thing you've had to do. I mean, think about that.
You call the police, you call somebody on your partner, you call somebody to come over and arrest or take them in because they're so hurtful.
(02:55):
And she was in a violent situation for sure.
And I want you to, um, if you, if you haven't considered this, I want you to consider not the person who wrote, but anyone
listening that the emotional abuse was more long lasting, more impactful than the physical abuse. This is what she said.
(03:17):
I've heard from people, they tell me that the victims of abusive behavior, they've written to me and said, it would be easier if they just hit me.
That way I could justify leaving or whatever their next step is.
It would be easier if they just hit me.
And so here we have somebody who has been hit and did take the steps to leave.
(03:41):
And she got herself and her child into a better situation, but it wasn't without fear.
It wasn't without a lot of challenge, I'm sure.
And she wanted to put it all behind her, like she said, but love and abuse popped in her head.
And she decided to reach out to me and share this.
And I, I have a feeling there were probably other stories like this, where somebody has left an abusive situation and they
(04:05):
just want to leave it behind them.
And, um, I am so proud of people who take this massive step.
And I am so proud of people who are just listening to this information that I share or looking at other resources, looking
into other resources and finding out all they can about the situation they're in, the relationship they're in, the behaviors they're experiencing.
(04:33):
That is the key, or at least the first step.
The very first step is just to find out what's going on. Figure it out. What are the behaviors? What's happening inside of you? Figure that out. Reflect on how you feel.
Reflect on what you're thinking on a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day basis, and ask yourself how you feel and what you want to think about.
(05:01):
I'm sure there are many people out there thinking, I just don't want to have to think about this stuff.
I don't want to have to think about if they're going to do this behavior again, if they're going to call me that name again,
I don't want to have to think about it.
I just want to put it in the back of my mind or not think about it at all and hope it never happens again.
(05:22):
And then when it does happen again, then the cycle can repeat or will repeat because if it happened before, it probably will happen again.
And that's the trend I talk about. You look at the trend.
If it's happened more than once or twice, it's going to happen more than once or twice again.
And if it's a frequent thing, then it will happen frequently.
(05:45):
I don't say that to put you in a bad mood or anything.
I'm saying that to know what to expect. The first part is information gathering. You want to gather information.
You want to learn all you can.
Educate yourself so you know what you're dealing with.
There are all kinds of abusive behaviors.
(06:07):
We talk mostly about emotional abuse, but there obviously are physical abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, religious abuse.
And because there are so many types of abuse, some people don't even know they're in it. Financial abuse is huge.
One person, the abuser, for example, might be the moneymaker.
(06:27):
And the other person, the victim, relies on the moneymaker. So now what do they do? They feel stuck.
And that's something I kind of want to talk about today is the feeling of being stuck.
I'm sure this person who wrote to me felt stuck.
They probably thought there's nothing they can do and they can't leave because their partner was violent.
(06:48):
And stirring the pot, rocking the boat, whatever they do was going to cause more violence. I'm sure that's what they thought. Yet they found a way. They made their escape plan.
They mustered up the courage to do it.
And I'm not saying that that's what you need to do if you're in that type of environment.
(07:13):
I'm not saying that you should do that or not.
In fact, you'll learn as you do your information gathering that telling anyone to leave an abusive situation is not the right thing to do.
Which is why I never come on here and say, you need to leave.
And I read that all over the internet too. You need to leave that house. You need to leave that abuser. You need to leave right away.
(07:36):
I read that all over the internet.
And of course, personally, I can connect with that. I agree with it.
You shouldn't be in an abusive situation because I don't want to see you be abused.
I don't want to see you hurt.
I don't want to read a story about you being hurt. And I read them every day. And it's sad to me.
(07:57):
It's sad to me that people are in these relationships and there's nothing I can do except come on the air and say, this is what I know.
And I hope you are able to take this information and do something with it.
And that something could be a number of things.
In the typical emotionally abusive relationship, which probably none of them are typical, but there are commonalities.
(08:24):
But in the typical emotionally abusive relationship, you usually don't have to fear physical violence.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't, because I don't know your situation, but you usually don't have to fear physical violence.
And you can usually have a conversation with the other person to say something along the lines of, Hey, when you do this, it hurts me.
(08:46):
Could you please not do that anymore? I'm not saying it'll be effective.
I'm not saying that these are the magic words that will stop everything.
I'm saying that at least you can let them know that it is hurtful and they become conscious of it.
Because if they weren't for some reason before, they are now.
(09:08):
I like to make people conscious of their actions, their behaviors.
And even if they disagree with it, like they might say, I'm not hurting you. You're just being sensitive. Whatever I said, you took wrong.
Even if they said that, at least they're now aware that what they do and say is hurtful.
(09:31):
That's why I like to make people conscious.
You know, the perpetrators of hurtful behavior, the emotionally abusive people, they weren't aware before they become aware.
And then if they choose to abuse, or if it just comes out because they're emotionally triggered, then at least they're aware
that their behavior is hurtful because you advise them of such.
(09:56):
And again, I'm not saying, hey, you should advise them as such, because saying that might be irresponsible on my part.
But I do know that if they don't know, they have excuses.
If someone is emotionally abusive and they keep doing it because they never heard the words, when you do that, it hurts me, then they have an excuse.
(10:19):
So I like to take excuses out. Let's address those excuses.
Like if they don't really know, then letting them know it hurts you, makes them aware, even if they disagree with it.
You're just too sensitive, whatever they say.
Making them aware, lets them know that their behaviors are not acceptable to you and hurt. And that should be enough.
(10:45):
Telling somebody that their behavior is hurtful should be enough.
It should be enough to stop them from hurting you.
You know, I read that letter to you.
And again, thank you so much for writing that.
The person who wrote to me, I just read through that and was so touched and so happy that you'd left that abusive person. Because I know it wasn't easy.
(11:08):
Might've been the most difficult thing you've done.
And it was so difficult, you didn't even want to think about it again.
And you had to get to a point. What is this?
Many years later, where you could finally maybe have it pop in your head and not affect you as bad as it used to.
(11:28):
Have it not be another PTSD episode, thinking about the past and how awful it was, having to get through it and getting out of it. Again, very courageous. Thank you for sharing that.
And I want to share a story that I don't know if I've talked about it on the air or not. I might have once or twice.
(11:50):
My wife and I used to live in an apartment complex and below us on the next floor down, I heard this woman, she had their
door open and she was going, she was just crying.
I couldn't even understand what she was saying, but she was just, and I walked down the stairs and I saw the door open and
(12:10):
I'm looking at her and she's just crying.
She looked over at me and she kept crying.
She was just there with the door open crying out loud.
And I walked up to her and I said, what's going on? Are you okay?
And she didn't say what was happening.
But, um, I kind of opened the door a little bit and I saw her husband holding their child and he looked like, I don't know,
(12:36):
he looked either angry or there was a mixture, a mixture of anger and, uh, surprise or confusion, not really confusion, but
he looked like he was caught, like he was caught hurting her.
I actually walked into the apartment because something crazy was going on and I needed to find out.
And there was food on the wall.
(12:59):
She was crying at the front door, like I was saying, and I walked right up to him. He was holding his child.
And I don't recommend you do this.
Uh, the police are even afraid of domestic violence situations because anything could happen.
But I felt, I felt I needed to do something.
So I walked up to the guy and I said, look, I'm not here to judge.
(13:20):
I'm just going to take her with us so that she can calm down.
And of course, in my mind, I'm judging. I already know what happened.
I already know, at least, you know, this is my guess.
My guess what happened is that he hurt her.
And then because she was crying, trying to get attention, trying to get help, but not saying help me, he hurt me. She was just crying.
(13:46):
And so I looked at the guy and I said, again, I'm not here to judge.
Uh, I'm just going to take her.
You know, I tried to respect their space, even though my mind is saying, you son of a, you, you hurt her.
That's my mind is saying that, but trying to calm the situation down.
And I said, I'm going to take her with us and calm her down.
(14:06):
And he just looked at me and he was still, you know, he could tell he was still in that intensity, but he just nodded his head once.
Like he would, he approved of it. I didn't need his approval.
I was going to take her anyway, but I wanted to keep things calm.
And so my wife and I, we weren't married back then, but Asha and I took her upstairs and, um, we calmed her down. She finally calmed down.
(14:31):
And of course we asked, are you okay?
And we didn't really want to say what happened. We just said, are you okay?
Because what happened is, you know, she knows what happened and she's going to tell us what happened if she wants to, but
we didn't want to just dive into that highly intense situation and just have her explain things yet.
(14:52):
We just wanted to calm her down.
And so my wife stayed with her for a while.
And I, I think I went back downstairs.
I forget, I forget where I was, but my wife was upstairs with her.
And my wife told me later that as she calmed her down and they were able to connect a little bit and talk to each other, my
wife, who actually works with child sexual abuse victims, you know, adult children who have survived child sexual abuse, she
(15:16):
knew how to talk to her in a way that was permissive and safe.
She gave her a safe space to express herself.
However, this woman did not want to admit that, or that's the wrong word.
She did not want to say what happened. She was afraid.
She didn't want to say what happened because of, this is my own opinion, but the repercussions.
(15:41):
For example, if she went back and he asked, did you tell them anything?
She could honestly say, no, I didn't.
But my wife being a good communicator asked her the right questions. Did he hurt you?
Would you tell me if he hurt you?
She asked the right questions and without her saying much at all, she got to the truth.
(16:07):
So by the time I got back to our apartment, that woman had left and went back home.
She went right back into that relationship that she's been probably for years because their child was several years old.
So I'm assuming that they've been together for years.
And, um, the next time we saw them, he was happy. He was joyful.
(16:30):
He was inviting us to some gathering and she was kind of standoffish, but, um, you know, things had passed and I think he
thought he just got away with it.
I think he thought that since I didn't come back and cause any trouble with him, that we weren't aware.
(16:55):
I mean, that was a good thing that he believed that we weren't aware of what happened, or at least he believed that we weren't
going to get in the middle of that.
And so he treated us like, um, we were best friends after that.
And it was very awkward, but my wife had told that woman, come to us.
(17:16):
If you need help, come up here, we're here for you. And so she never did.
She never came back and maybe things calmed down in there, but we knew it was still a dangerous situation.
And, um, we told her that, you know, we have a safe place for you. I will protect you. We'll do our best. We'll get somebody involved.
(17:36):
And it's very difficult when you're dealing with a situation like this, because, uh, even if you call the police, it could make things worse.
If we went down there and saw what happened and we ended up calling the police, it may have made things worse.
And the professionals, all the people that deal with abuse victims and domestic violence say, don't call the police. It could make it worse.
(17:59):
And so, um, we didn't, it's just a hard place to be. We wanted to, and we didn't.
And at the same time, she knew where we were, so she could come up.
And we also knew that she might be too afraid to do that because of the repercussions.
It's a very difficult place to be in.
If you call the police, it makes things worse.
If you don't, it could be worse that way. Very difficult.
(18:23):
And I know there are people on both sides of this, and, uh, you may have strong opinions on this and I hear you. I really do.
I hear you, but I think we did our best that day.
And, um, we gave her that place to come to that safe place.
So my whole point of this story is about a month later, they were moving, they were moving to a place away from her family.
(18:50):
And I don't even know if his family was there, but they were moving to a house and she was going to be separated and isolated from her support system.
Not just us, but her family, her friends.
He was taking her somewhere else to be isolated.
(19:10):
They ended up moving and we never saw them again.
And to this day, I still, I wish I had known where they went, but what could I have done about it?
I think about her all the time.
I hope she found this show, but I think about her all the time and I, I just wish and hope and pray that she's okay.
(19:33):
Again, there's a reason I told this story.
The reason is there's a commitment that we can make in our lives, in your life.
You can make a commitment to take something to the next level or take it to a level that it hasn't been, that will lock you
in tighter into an abusive situation that you don't want to be in.
(19:58):
This woman was in a very difficult place.
There was a cultural thing here too.
Like they must stay married because that's how things are in their culture.
And so she felt very stuck and she felt like she had to commit and go through with it.
It's very hard to think about this in a cultural sense.
(20:20):
Like you're forced to be in an abusive relationship no matter what.
That doesn't make any sense to me, but I won't knock anybody's culture, but it doesn't make any sense that someone would be
forced to stay with someone regardless of abusive behaviors.
I'm just here to share with you that you need to gather enough information so that you know your options.
(20:44):
And especially in my point about this entire story and probably this entire episode is that you have to be careful what you commit to next.
She was in a marriage where her next commitment was to be more isolated away from her support system, away from her friends and family.
In that dangerous situation where there's domestic violence, physical violence, she felt like she had no choice maybe.
(21:13):
I don't know for sure if that's the case, but that's what I read into it and that's what my wife read into it.
We felt like she felt stuck and I create this show.
I create these episodes in hopes that you will hear something that gives you enough information, that gives you motivation,
(21:35):
that reminds you how important it is not to commit to something deeper and deeper that is harmful to you.
And at the same time, I can't say get out of it. I can't tell you to leave.
I can't tell you to get a divorce. I can't say any of that.
First of all, it's not my place, even though here I am telling you the danger of being in a situation like that.
(21:59):
But at the same time, everyone has to do it at their own pace when they're ready. And some people aren't ready.
Some people just can't step up and walk away.
There are a lot of people that are listening to this show right now that just can't walk away, or at least they believe they can't walk away.
And that's another point I want to make is that sometimes we tell ourselves that we're stuck when the reality is that we're
(22:27):
not really stuck, but we just really don't like the options.
You may not like the option of leaving someone and not having finances.
You might not like the option of sleeping on somebody else's couch.
You may not like the option of telling someone to stop their behaviors because it's dangerous, or you feel like there'll be
(22:51):
consequences that you don't want to suffer through. And so you feel stuck.
And I am just trying to iterate today. I'm trying to emphasize a point.
And the point is, if you already feel stuck, I want you to consider what happens next if there's another level of commitment.
(23:14):
Because once you put that into play inside your head, once you play that out and imagine the future with that next level of
commitment, whether it's moving somewhere and getting isolated, whether it's marrying someone that there's already issues
with, whether it's having a child with somebody that there are already issues with, or another child or whatever it is, that
(23:41):
next level of commitment, you just have to imagine it unfolding.
I mean, my wife, her previous marriage was to a sociopath and she was married for a long time.
And she put herself in a place of, well, there's nothing better.
And I don't want to be single.
And he was, he was a real piece of work.
And, uh, he put her through a lot of hell and he wanted a kid and she didn't.
(24:08):
And she had, I think she told me this.
She said, I don't want a kid with him.
I don't want a kid at all.
But with him, she didn't want one, but she felt like, okay, well, I'm married and this is what I'm supposed to do.
And so she had a kid with him and that tied them together in some way.
I mean, I think they got divorced a couple of years after that.
(24:29):
And then she became tied to him because of the shared custody of the child.
And she had to face so many nights of his lies.
Like I'll bring them back by six.
And he brings them back the next day, all these broken promises.
And she had to deal with it over and over again.
And then he didn't want to pay child support and all that stuff had to unfold.
(24:52):
And she had to go to court and she lost her house so much.
She committed to that next level with she didn't even like because she thought, okay, well, this is what you're supposed to do. I'm the wife.
This is what I'm supposed to do.
And, you know, there's more to it and I don't want to put words in her mouth.
So this is the gist I got of it though.
(25:12):
She committed to the next level, which is having a child.
And though she loves her child and I love her child. He's a great kid. He's grown up now.
She had to endure so many years of difficulty, of challenges, of her ex-husband smearing her name and telling lies to their
(25:35):
child and making her look like a terrible person.
Making her look like she was responsible for everything that was bad and wrong in the relationship and for getting him in
trouble with the court because he wouldn't pay child support. His own choice for not paying.
And he blamed her because there's no reason actually, because she didn't cause that problem. He did.
(26:01):
He stopped paying and he didn't want to pay.
And he told the judge he didn't want to pay.
So, you know, I don't want to tell you the whole story.
There's a lot of dirty laundry in there, but it was a big deal and she had to go through it for many, many years. And now she's free of that.
And she's happy she has a child.
She's not happy that she had it with him, but she's happy she has a child.
(26:23):
And it all worked out in the end, but she had to endure a lot.
That's why I see someone in a predicament like that, and maybe you're in a predicament like this or a commitment like this, and maybe you've already committed.
Maybe you've committed to that next level. Maybe you're there now.
That's why I keep creating this show.
(26:44):
I want to give you as much information as possible, but maybe if you haven't, maybe you are thinking about committing to the next level.
Maybe you are just about to step into that and you need some sort of guidance there.
This is my way of sharing with you that if there are already problems that you don't like and make you feel bad, those problems
(27:10):
typically, almost always, get worse with the next level of commitment.
And that next level could be healing. I won't take that away.
There could be healing in a relationship where somebody says, hey look, you got to stop hurting me or else I'm leaving or else I'm kicking you out.
There could be healing in the relationship. I've seen that happen.
(27:33):
You just have to figure that out. Is there going to be healing?
Because if there isn't, then that's when you commit to another level that might make things worse or you might feel more stuck.
And I'm trying to help you avoid feeling so stuck that you're just unhappy for as long as you are in that place.
(27:55):
But if there can be healing, that would be terrific.
I have a program that helps emotionally abusive people heal and grow and give them the best chance at saving a relationship
if there's still love in their heart.
Now if there's still love in your heart and the other person heals, there's a chance to rebuild or build anew, something better with this person.
(28:18):
But if the love has left your heart and it's pretty much sealed shut, the chances of rebuilding or reconciling or anything like that are very slim.
It can happen, but it's just it's not often.
Once you close your heart, it's pretty much closed after abuse.
So I hope this gives you something to think about and reflect upon.
(28:39):
It's not pleasant to think about this stuff, but it's reality for some people.
It might be a reality for you.
You might be in the the deepest, thickest part of it and you feel stuck.
That's why I keep doing this show and I want you to have as much information as possible educate yourself, continue along
the path that always emphasizes how important you are, how lovable you are, and how much you deserve respect and kindness.
(29:07):
And finally sometimes in order to see a change in a relationship, one person has to change.
It would be great if both people did, but at least one person has to change.
And unfortunately the typical abusive relationship, it's usually the victim of that abuse that has to change in order for things to change.
(29:28):
That doesn't mean you become passive and submissive and all that.
It just means whatever you're doing now, if it's not working, you may have to be the one that takes the next step.
Whatever that means, wherever that goes, but if you don't see the other person changing, they won't. And they don't until you change.
(29:51):
That might be hard to hear, but that's typically what I see.
I hope this helps somebody out there. I hope this helps you.
I want to thank that person for sharing that very heartfelt letter.
And I shared that for another reason, because if she can do it, you can too.
If she got out of that abusive toxic relationship and you're in one as well, you can take the steps you need to take as well.
(30:19):
It might take some planning and it might take some deep conversations with each other if you can have a conversation with this person.
And when you're in that dark place, there is a path to the light.
I think that's the best way to describe it.
And I'm willing to bet that this person didn't think she could do it either.
So whatever that means to you, however this helps you, stay strong and always remember who you are. Thanks for listening.
(30:43):
Share this with others who might benefit.
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200-point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
And if you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about and you want to change that
(31:08):
about yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
(31:30):
safe listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you're not alone and you're not going crazy.
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love.
And you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.