April 29, 2025 • 32 mins
When they threaten to leave or take something away from you, but they never follow through, expect them to repeat that behavior indefinitely. Empty threats are effective on those who fear them coming true. There is a way to stop the empty threats (but you probably won't like it).
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship, from simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors. You deserve respect and kindness.
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All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
Thank you for joining me for another episode of Love and Abuse.
If this is your first time I'm sorry that you had to tune into a show like this, but I'm glad that you're here to learn something
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that may help you in your life, in your relationship, and maybe give you the tools you need to make decisions that are right for you.
And today I'm going to talk about recursive behavior or abusive behavior that repeats usually because it works.
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For example, somebody wrote to me and said, every time my fiance gets mad because I have asked for something that I think
is reasonable, but it requires him to change something he's done or is doing, then he claims that he feels beaten down, and
then he tells me he'll move out.
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He says this is what he feels in the heat of the moment when he says it, but then he comes back and says, I hate when we fight. I love you. I don't want to lose you. I don't want to leave. And it just repeats itself.
He threatens to leave, and then he comes back and he doesn't even say if he He says that, here it is, he rarely apologizes
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for hurting me, and my resentment is growing because it doesn't seem like that he cares that he's hurting me, or his solution
is to break up because he can't or won't stop or change this.
This is taking a major toll on me and our relationship, and I also don't trust that he won't abandon me and my children, who
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have grown very close to him, and he considers them his daughters.
I'm so sorry you're going through this, and I know what you're dealing with.
It is somebody who is controlling and wanting to control how you respond.
So, he is setting you up to respond in a way that works for him, and by setting you up to respond in that way, he maintains power and control in the relationship.
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He maintains power and control in his own life, because if he doesn't get what he wants, he will feel either weak or vulnerable or afraid.
He doesn't want to express his real thoughts or his real emotions, and what happens is when somebody doesn't want to deal
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with their own stuff, they push their stuff in a different way onto you.
And so again, to the person who wrote this, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Let me address what you wrote.
One of the things that you said was, I don't trust that he won't abandon me and my children, and that tells me right there
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that you have a need for something that he is abusing or exploiting.
And so, I mean, there are a couple other major things in this message that you sent me that I'm going to address in a moment,
but this one stuck out, because if you have a strong need for something and someone who wants to maintain control and power
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over you knows about that need, then they will take advantage of it.
He knows that you fear abandonment, even subconsciously.
Like if you are kind of clingy, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but if you're kind of clingy and really emotionally
connected to him all the time and you want to hang out with him and do things together, all normal relationship stuff.
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But if he feels that from you, if he feels that strong need for emotional connection, again, very normal, but if he feels
it and he has a tendency or some dominant personality trait to want to control and keep his power in the relationship and
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over you and in his own life, then that's going to be a vulnerability that he will use to his advantage. This is what some people do.
They will find the vulnerability in you and use it to their advantage to keep their power and control over you.
And so this is the first thing I see is that he is using the exact thing that you fear to control you.
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It's like a form of emotional blackmail.
I have something to hold over your head.
And if you don't do what I want, and if you behave in a way I don't like, then I'm going to hold this over your head so you better straighten up.
Or in this case, specifically, this person, this guy is saying, I don't want to do what you're asking me to do.
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So here's how I'm going to control you so that I don't have to do it.
And as soon as you ask him not to do something and the stuff that you listed is very reasonable, like stop threatening to move out. That's a very reasonable request.
When he doesn't want to be told what to do or he feels that his power tool, if you want to call it that, he feels that his
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power tool is in jeopardy of being taken away from him.
That's when he uses his power tools, his control mechanisms to put you in your place.
There's no other way to say it. That's what's happening.
Putting you in the place he wants you to be so that you will leave him alone and you will focus on your own behaviors.
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And then you will do what every or almost every victim of emotional abuse does.
Take the blame, take responsibility, ask yourself, how can I show up better?
What can I do differently so that this person will stop mistreating me or will make the relationship better?
They'll work on the relationship, they'll work on themselves. And maybe you're not saying that.
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I mean, you said basically that you know it's bad behavior.
In so many words, you said, I know this is bad behavior, but he won't stop. This gets to my second point.
He won't stop, A, because I already said it works because he knows your vulnerability. And B, there's no accountability.
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If he says, I'm going to leave and you say, please don't leave or please stop saying that, he's not going to see that as accountable.
He's going to see that as part of the equation of the power and control model that he has meticulously designed.
And I'm not saying he did this totally consciously.
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Some people will do this all their lives and not realize just how awful and hurtful they're being.
But he is being awful and hurtful by this threat.
It is a few steps away or maybe less than a few steps away than someone saying, if you leave me, I'll kill myself.
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I know that's a giant step in a different direction, but that's the same type threat. I will abandon you.
I will make you feel bad and kill myself.
That's the kind of wording that is used to control people.
The challenge is, you know, you don't know if he's telling the truth or not, but here's the problem.
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They know the language works, so they keep using it.
But the problem is, how do you stop that language? The answer is accountability.
Accountability in the form of, and you're not going to like this. Fine, do it.
I'm not saying that about the kill yourself one. That's a different topic altogether.
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But I'm just saying, if someone uses language to take advantage of your vulnerability, to exploit your fears, they know what works to exploit your fears.
And most of the time, it's an empty threat.
It's a threat that has no substance.
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And again, it's a different scenario with the, with someone threatening suicide.
And I do have an episode on that called, if you leave me, I'll kill myself. And there's more to it.
But if you go to loveandabuse.com, you can look up, if you leave me and you'll see the episode appear.
And that's an important episode if you're dealing with that.
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And most of the time it's an empty threat, but sometimes it's real.
And what do you do when it's real in that situation?
But again, I do address that over at loveandabuse.com.
Just look for that in the podcast page.
And for this example, for this scenario, most of the time, again, it's an empty threat, but the only way to stop it.
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And again, this is something you won't like, is to say, okay, if that's what you need to do, or okay, fine, go ahead. I know you won't like that.
I'm not telling you that you should do that.
I'm saying, that's how you stop it.
And you stop it because now they have to follow through.
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And they're either going to follow through, or they're going to tell themselves that, oh, this doesn't work anymore. I can't do that anymore.
The solution to empty threats is to let people go through with it.
The one or 2% of the time that it's not an empty threat, it may actually happen. It's true.
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It may actually happen, but here's the thing. And I know that's scary part.
And that's why a lot of people won't do it. Because what if it does happen?
If you never address it, nothing will change. So there's part A of this.
If you never address the empty threat, or what I'm going to call an empty threat, besides the one or 2% time that it may not
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be, because they're so self-righteous and they're going to prove you wrong, even at own detriment, even if it hurts them,
there are people out there like that.
But most of the time, there's an empty threat.
And when you say, okay, fine, if that's what you need to do, and that might be your words, if that's what you feel you need
to do, then you should do it.
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Because the opposite, the resistance that, especially this person, if you are resisting it, saying, no, please don't leave,
or don't say that, every time you resist, it reinforces that that strategy, that tactic works.
It's very similar to the emotionally abusive silent treatment.
Some people will use silence and disconnect, emotionally disconnecting from the other person to make them feel bad, to make
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them feel guilty in order to control their behavior.
So some people will use silence and emotional disconnect and withdrawing love and connection in order to control the other person.
So if John is doing something that Mary doesn't like, Mary might say, well, I can't get John to stop doing that.
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So I'm just going to go silent. I'm going to emotionally disconnect.
I'm going to withdraw love and connection.
And that'll make John feel so bad, because he won't be able to feel my presence anymore.
He won't know where I am inside my head.
He'll think that love only comes where there is compliance.
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And so Mary will go silent and wait for John to finally say, please come back, please.
And then she'll hope that John sees the results of his behavior himself and learn not to do the behavior that upsets Mary.
Again, this is the emotionally abusive silent treatment.
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There are other reasons to go silent and disconnect. Sometimes you have to process things.
Sometimes you're in shock about something, but I'm talking about when silence is used as a control mechanism to control the other person and their behavior.
And in my example here, John's doing some behavior that may not be bad, but Mary doesn't like it.
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So Mary goes silent and disconnects and disappears emotionally for a while until John finally dotes on her long enough and apologizes for whatever he did maybe.
And he just tries to get her back.
And on top of that, Mary might have a deep fear of abandonment, just like this person who wrote.
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And because of that fear, she gets more love and attention when she's silent.
And so John will give her more love and attention, and that fulfills Mary's dysfunctional need.
I mean, it's not wholly fair to say dysfunctional, but that's what she's dealing with in the example I just gave.
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Not the story I just read, but the example I just gave where Mary doesn't want John to act in a certain way, or Mary doesn't
feel like she's being loved or given enough attention.
So she goes silent and gains, it's called secondary gain as well, she gains something from her silence.
And when that gain comes in, she might start to come back, fulfilling this recursive cycle of abusive behavior and cause and effect pretty much.
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Every time Mary goes silent, John gets more loving, more caring.
And then Mary comes back, and the effect fulfills the cause, which leads to the next cause and effect. It's almost like stimulus response.
A person rings the bell, the dogs come running because they know every time the bell is rung, there's food.
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The person goes silent, the other person comes running and gives them love and attention.
And the silent person feels more fulfilled, or at least is starting to get that dysfunction fulfilled, or that fear, the fear of abandonment in my example. And that completes the abuse cycle.
And when you have something that completes the abuse cycle, and when the person who does the abusive behavior gets the outcome
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they want, they know it works, so they won't stop. It's rare when they stop.
I mean, if they're going to do this anyway, and even if they know it's hurtful, even if they see you upset, they will think
that you are causing your own upset because all you need to do is do what they want you to do. It's a no-win situation.
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You're going to be unhappy either way when somebody does this kind of abusive behavior.
So to this person who wrote, the part that is going to be very difficult is for you to say, if that's what you need to do, then maybe you should do it. Because he really could do it.
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But the way I look at it, and I'm sorry to even give you that idea in your head, I don't want to suggest that you do it or not.
In fact, don't listen to me, because it could happen.
But I know what happens if you don't do this.
If you don't do this, the cycle continues.
He will continue using it as a threat to you, because he knows that you fear him leaving.
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I'm sure he's seen it in your face. He probably has seen you cry.
He's probably heard you say, please don't do that. Please don't say that. Because he can see the fear. He can feel it from you. You're emitting it. You are emoting it. At least that's my guess.
You didn't really say that, but in your words in this message, I'm sure that's what's happening.
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And I'm sure you've said plenty of times, please stop doing that.
Because if he knows that you don't want him to do it, that's exactly what he is going to do.
So saying something like, if that's what you need to do, if he says, well, I'm going to leave, you know, that's it.
I'm going to pack up my bags and get out of this house and leave this relationship.
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Instead of the resistance that you normally give, which completes the abuse cycle, not saying it's your fault, but just saying that's how they operate.
Instead of doing that, the accountability part is you saying, if you feel you need to do that, that's up to you. Something like that.
What that does is put the spotlight back on the person doing the behavior and takes it off of you.
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Because when the spotlight is on you, when the attention's on you, then the person doing the bad behavior can get away with it.
Because now the baton has been passed, so to speak.
He has passed that baton to you.
So now you need to do something about this relationship.
And in order for me to stay in this relationship, this is him talking, in order for me to stay, you need to make a decision
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if you're going to change your behavior or not.
Your change in behavior is to stop telling me what to do.
So basically, if you say nothing, now I'm talking to the person who wrote, if you say nothing, then he maintains his control over you.
If you say, please don't do that, please stop, he maintains his control over you.
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If you say, if that's what you need to do, if you feel that you need to do that, then I won't stop you.
Because you have a right to do anything you want.
You're an adult, you can make that decision.
And that's scary because what if he does leave?
And this is part three of my answer. What if he does leave?
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If he leaves, then what is the quality of that relationship in the I love you, I love you so much, I never want to leave you, which he said many times. And then he leaves.
Then what was it all about anyway?
What was the quality of your relationship? What was the longevity?
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What was the permanence of your relationship? It wasn't there.
And the only way it's been permanent is his control over you.
And if you are with someone who wants to maintain the permanence of the relationship by keeping their control over you, then
you have to seriously consider if it was a relationship worth keeping in the first place.
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I know none of this is what you want to hear. And there's no magic pill. Actually, that is the magic pill.
The accountability part is the magic pill, but it doesn't mean that everyone's going to be happy in the end.
My guess is when you say something like, okay, if that's what you need to do, when you say that, they're going to be surprised
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and not know what to do with that information.
He's not going to expect that you are going to throw a wrench into his control machine. He's not going to expect that.
He is so used to controlling the outcome of all these events.
And when that happens, and the onus and responsibility of what happens next in the relationship is up to him, then you'll get to see his true colors.
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Because someone who says, I love you, I never want to leave you, and then leaves, their true colors are showing.
And that's what I worry about with you.
Because if you have a fear of abandonment, and you have a fear that your children will be affected if he leaves, if all those
fears are driving your behaviors in the relationship and your behaviors toward him, what does the totality of the relationship look like because of that? You are in fear. He is in control. That is your relationship.
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And I didn't read to the listeners what the ages of your children were, but they're old enough.
They're old enough to get over it.
And they're old enough to also have a relationship with him outside of your relationship if they want.
If they really do have a great connection, then maybe he makes a better dad than a boyfriend or husband.
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Maybe he makes a better parent than a partner.
I've heard from many people that have infants, that have little children, that they're so worried how the children are going
to respond and how they're going to be mentally and emotionally and psychologically affected if the person writing to me leaves their abusive partner or whatever.
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I get a lot of those letters and my answer is always the same.
If they stay in a relationship that has abuse, they learn how to treat others through those interactions.
So if you are in a relationship with an abusive person, they may learn that it's okay to be treated this way.
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And if you leave an abusive relationship, your kids may learn that it's important to protect yourself and it's important to
honor your boundaries and make sure nobody crosses them.
So it's important not to prioritize a family structure for children. And this is my own opinion.
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I'm not telling you that I'm a child expert, child psychologist or anything like that.
But my opinion is that you shouldn't prioritize a family structure with a toxic family dynamic.
You shouldn't prioritize family first when a part of the family or a component of the family is harmful or toxic.
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We always see keep the family together for the kids sake.
And again, this is my opinion and there are religious beliefs that have this alternate opinion.
But my opinion is if there's a toxic element or abusive behavior in the family and it is consistent and persistent, it's happening a lot.
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Then my priority is what the kids will learn from that.
And of course, what you will learn in that situation as well. What are you teaching yourself?
What are you exposing yourself to when you're in that?
This is something I just thought of when I woke up this morning.
I said, what you fill your head with, you go to bed with.
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I woke up thinking, okay, what happened yesterday?
What did I fill my head with? And what dreams did I have?
And when I woke up, how did I feel?
And I remember watching a lot of scary movies when I was younger and what I filled my head with, I went to bed with.
And how about abuse and toxicity throughout the day?
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What you fill your head with, you go to bed with.
This is you carrying your day into your night, into your next day, into your night.
And when you're with somebody that you are always feeling confused or fearful or upset or sad, all of these feelings you take with you, you are walking forward.
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This is very similar to that quote, wherever you go, there you are.
And so what you fill your head with, you go to bed with, might have a lot of meanings to a lot of different people.
But the way I see it is if my relationship, if my work environment, if anything that I was exposed to was draining me and
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making me feel bad more than 50% of the time, meaning I feel bad more than I feel good, then I know that I'm taking that with
me in some way, shape or form.
And it could be just a low level feeling underneath how you feel or something that's pervasive and at the forefront of your
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mind and you can't stop thinking about it.
And what that has to do with kids is what they are exposed to throughout the day. What are they exposed to?
This is what the whole point of that rhyme I made is, what am I exposed to throughout the day that I'm taking with me?
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So if somebody prioritizes a family with a toxic element or abuse, then those children are also exposed to that toxic element and abuse.
And that's what they're taking with them going forward.
But if it's a, I'll just say it, broken family, if it's a family that has split up and now that abusive element isn't so pervasive
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at the forefront anymore, maybe they're still a part of their lives, maybe they're not, but it's not every day or it's not
as much as it used to be.
Then there's some reprieve, there's some break, and maybe that break gives them more balance. And again, this is my opinion.
This may be something that flies in the face of your belief.
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Or you believe that the family should never be apart, growing up in a dysfunctional home myself with an abusive alcoholic
for a stepfather, wow, you know, my life would have been different if I wasn't exposed to that every single day of my life. I probably wouldn't have this show.
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Maybe I wouldn't be the person I am today.
And I actually, I know I wouldn't be the person I am today.
Maybe a lot of good things would have happened to me or maybe worse things would have happened to me.
I do know that it took me a lot longer to heal throughout my life because I had that exposure every single day of my at least 19 years of my life.
And it's quite possible that I would not have as much knowledge about this subject because I wouldn't have taken the route I did in my life. So, who knows?
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And as grateful as I am for my childhood and the abuse I witnessed and the dysfunction that I experienced and the very scary
environment that I was in, as much as I am grateful for that because it did shape who I am today, I do wonder what it would
have been like had I not experienced that kind of upbringing.
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And I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad for having kids and being in a situation with an abusive person or anything like that. That's not what this is about.
Because you could bring up a child in a perfect environment and they can still turn out going to therapy.
They can still do things that would surprise you.
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And then you can have a child in a dysfunctional home or an alcoholic home come out and pursue a path of helping others. That's where I went.
I pursued a path of helping others and that fulfilled me and that gave meaning to my life. So, you never know. You don't.
So, this is why I'm giving you both sides of the coin where a child can grow up in an abusive household and come out fine
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and a child can grow up in a perfect household and come out abusive. It can happen.
I just know what I would choose if I were in that situation.
I would rather take the chance of not having the toxic element in the relationship. And that doesn't mean automatically leaving.
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It might mean having a hard conversation. It might mean going to therapy.
It might mean a lot of things.
Some people just need to be told, hey, you better stop doing that because I don't want that in our relationship.
This is one of those pick your battles wisely moments.
If they're dangerous and violent, you don't want to get into that conversation.
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But I do hear from a lot of people that haven't had this conversation, that haven't said, if you want to leave, then leave. Accountability.
The person who wrote to me said, he keeps threatening to leave and I want him to stop and I tell him to stop.
But if you said, okay, fine, if that's what you need to do, then that's your choice. I'm not going to stop you. I hope you don't. I hope you stay.
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I hope you want to work this out.
But if that's what you feel you need to do, then I'm not going to get in your way.
I will honor the path that you believe you need to take.
What that does, that accountability factor and having the hard conversation like that, is it will change the direction of the relationship.
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Yes, there's a chance it will go in the direction you don't like.
And there's also a chance they'll stop doing it because they realize that you are no longer threatened by it. Again, that could go either way.
But I know the path that I would take because I don't want that toxicity.
I don't want the emotionally abusive behavior.
I don't want somebody who controls me like that in the relationship.
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And if I had children, I wouldn't want them to be exposed to that as well because I don't want them to know that it's okay to tolerate that.
Let me just address this last sentence.
I'm going to re-read you the last sentence in this message. He rarely apologizes for hurting me.
My resentment is growing because it doesn't seem that he cares that he's hurting me.
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Or his solution is to break up because he can't or won't stop or change his behavior.
If somebody doesn't care or doesn't seem to care that they're hurting you, please let that land. Please let that land.
And the very last thing that she said, or his solution is to break up because he can't or won't stop or change this. I look at it this way.
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Sometimes we have to say, that's okay.
If you don't want to change, I honor that in you.
I honor the path that you want to take, but I can't be around that anymore.
I can't be around somebody who refuses to change, even though they know it hurts me. Stay strong. Thanks for sharing this.
(31:23):
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200-point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
If you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about and you want to change that about
(31:47):
yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
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(32:07):
safe listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone and you're not going crazy.
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love, and you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
(32:31):
I'm I'm
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship, from simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors. You deserve respect and kindness.
(00:10):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
Thank you for joining me for another episode of Love and Abuse.
If this is your first time I'm sorry that you had to tune into a show like this, but I'm glad that you're here to learn something
(00:36):
that may help you in your life, in your relationship, and maybe give you the tools you need to make decisions that are right for you.
And today I'm going to talk about recursive behavior or abusive behavior that repeats usually because it works.
(01:00):
For example, somebody wrote to me and said, every time my fiance gets mad because I have asked for something that I think
is reasonable, but it requires him to change something he's done or is doing, then he claims that he feels beaten down, and
then he tells me he'll move out.
(01:22):
He says this is what he feels in the heat of the moment when he says it, but then he comes back and says, I hate when we fight. I love you. I don't want to lose you. I don't want to leave. And it just repeats itself.
He threatens to leave, and then he comes back and he doesn't even say if he He says that, here it is, he rarely apologizes
(01:48):
for hurting me, and my resentment is growing because it doesn't seem like that he cares that he's hurting me, or his solution
is to break up because he can't or won't stop or change this.
This is taking a major toll on me and our relationship, and I also don't trust that he won't abandon me and my children, who
(02:09):
have grown very close to him, and he considers them his daughters.
I'm so sorry you're going through this, and I know what you're dealing with.
It is somebody who is controlling and wanting to control how you respond.
So, he is setting you up to respond in a way that works for him, and by setting you up to respond in that way, he maintains power and control in the relationship.
(02:38):
He maintains power and control in his own life, because if he doesn't get what he wants, he will feel either weak or vulnerable or afraid.
He doesn't want to express his real thoughts or his real emotions, and what happens is when somebody doesn't want to deal
(03:01):
with their own stuff, they push their stuff in a different way onto you.
And so again, to the person who wrote this, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Let me address what you wrote.
One of the things that you said was, I don't trust that he won't abandon me and my children, and that tells me right there
(03:21):
that you have a need for something that he is abusing or exploiting.
And so, I mean, there are a couple other major things in this message that you sent me that I'm going to address in a moment,
but this one stuck out, because if you have a strong need for something and someone who wants to maintain control and power
(03:46):
over you knows about that need, then they will take advantage of it.
He knows that you fear abandonment, even subconsciously.
Like if you are kind of clingy, and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but if you're kind of clingy and really emotionally
connected to him all the time and you want to hang out with him and do things together, all normal relationship stuff.
(04:12):
But if he feels that from you, if he feels that strong need for emotional connection, again, very normal, but if he feels
it and he has a tendency or some dominant personality trait to want to control and keep his power in the relationship and
(04:33):
over you and in his own life, then that's going to be a vulnerability that he will use to his advantage. This is what some people do.
They will find the vulnerability in you and use it to their advantage to keep their power and control over you.
And so this is the first thing I see is that he is using the exact thing that you fear to control you.
(05:00):
It's like a form of emotional blackmail.
I have something to hold over your head.
And if you don't do what I want, and if you behave in a way I don't like, then I'm going to hold this over your head so you better straighten up.
Or in this case, specifically, this person, this guy is saying, I don't want to do what you're asking me to do.
(05:27):
So here's how I'm going to control you so that I don't have to do it.
And as soon as you ask him not to do something and the stuff that you listed is very reasonable, like stop threatening to move out. That's a very reasonable request.
When he doesn't want to be told what to do or he feels that his power tool, if you want to call it that, he feels that his
(05:54):
power tool is in jeopardy of being taken away from him.
That's when he uses his power tools, his control mechanisms to put you in your place.
There's no other way to say it. That's what's happening.
Putting you in the place he wants you to be so that you will leave him alone and you will focus on your own behaviors.
(06:18):
And then you will do what every or almost every victim of emotional abuse does.
Take the blame, take responsibility, ask yourself, how can I show up better?
What can I do differently so that this person will stop mistreating me or will make the relationship better?
They'll work on the relationship, they'll work on themselves. And maybe you're not saying that.
(06:42):
I mean, you said basically that you know it's bad behavior.
In so many words, you said, I know this is bad behavior, but he won't stop. This gets to my second point.
He won't stop, A, because I already said it works because he knows your vulnerability. And B, there's no accountability.
(07:04):
If he says, I'm going to leave and you say, please don't leave or please stop saying that, he's not going to see that as accountable.
He's going to see that as part of the equation of the power and control model that he has meticulously designed.
And I'm not saying he did this totally consciously.
(07:26):
Some people will do this all their lives and not realize just how awful and hurtful they're being.
But he is being awful and hurtful by this threat.
It is a few steps away or maybe less than a few steps away than someone saying, if you leave me, I'll kill myself.
(07:48):
I know that's a giant step in a different direction, but that's the same type threat. I will abandon you.
I will make you feel bad and kill myself.
That's the kind of wording that is used to control people.
The challenge is, you know, you don't know if he's telling the truth or not, but here's the problem.
(08:13):
They know the language works, so they keep using it.
But the problem is, how do you stop that language? The answer is accountability.
Accountability in the form of, and you're not going to like this. Fine, do it.
I'm not saying that about the kill yourself one. That's a different topic altogether.
(08:34):
But I'm just saying, if someone uses language to take advantage of your vulnerability, to exploit your fears, they know what works to exploit your fears.
And most of the time, it's an empty threat.
It's a threat that has no substance.
(08:55):
And again, it's a different scenario with the, with someone threatening suicide.
And I do have an episode on that called, if you leave me, I'll kill myself. And there's more to it.
But if you go to loveandabuse.com, you can look up, if you leave me and you'll see the episode appear.
And that's an important episode if you're dealing with that.
(09:17):
And most of the time it's an empty threat, but sometimes it's real.
And what do you do when it's real in that situation?
But again, I do address that over at loveandabuse.com.
Just look for that in the podcast page.
And for this example, for this scenario, most of the time, again, it's an empty threat, but the only way to stop it.
(09:40):
And again, this is something you won't like, is to say, okay, if that's what you need to do, or okay, fine, go ahead. I know you won't like that.
I'm not telling you that you should do that.
I'm saying, that's how you stop it.
And you stop it because now they have to follow through.
(10:00):
And they're either going to follow through, or they're going to tell themselves that, oh, this doesn't work anymore. I can't do that anymore.
The solution to empty threats is to let people go through with it.
The one or 2% of the time that it's not an empty threat, it may actually happen. It's true.
(10:23):
It may actually happen, but here's the thing. And I know that's scary part.
And that's why a lot of people won't do it. Because what if it does happen?
If you never address it, nothing will change. So there's part A of this.
If you never address the empty threat, or what I'm going to call an empty threat, besides the one or 2% time that it may not
(10:48):
be, because they're so self-righteous and they're going to prove you wrong, even at own detriment, even if it hurts them,
there are people out there like that.
But most of the time, there's an empty threat.
And when you say, okay, fine, if that's what you need to do, and that might be your words, if that's what you feel you need
to do, then you should do it.
(11:10):
Because the opposite, the resistance that, especially this person, if you are resisting it, saying, no, please don't leave,
or don't say that, every time you resist, it reinforces that that strategy, that tactic works.
It's very similar to the emotionally abusive silent treatment.
Some people will use silence and disconnect, emotionally disconnecting from the other person to make them feel bad, to make
(11:40):
them feel guilty in order to control their behavior.
So some people will use silence and emotional disconnect and withdrawing love and connection in order to control the other person.
So if John is doing something that Mary doesn't like, Mary might say, well, I can't get John to stop doing that.
(12:03):
So I'm just going to go silent. I'm going to emotionally disconnect.
I'm going to withdraw love and connection.
And that'll make John feel so bad, because he won't be able to feel my presence anymore.
He won't know where I am inside my head.
He'll think that love only comes where there is compliance.
(12:25):
And so Mary will go silent and wait for John to finally say, please come back, please.
And then she'll hope that John sees the results of his behavior himself and learn not to do the behavior that upsets Mary.
Again, this is the emotionally abusive silent treatment.
(12:45):
There are other reasons to go silent and disconnect. Sometimes you have to process things.
Sometimes you're in shock about something, but I'm talking about when silence is used as a control mechanism to control the other person and their behavior.
And in my example here, John's doing some behavior that may not be bad, but Mary doesn't like it.
(13:07):
So Mary goes silent and disconnects and disappears emotionally for a while until John finally dotes on her long enough and apologizes for whatever he did maybe.
And he just tries to get her back.
And on top of that, Mary might have a deep fear of abandonment, just like this person who wrote.
(13:32):
And because of that fear, she gets more love and attention when she's silent.
And so John will give her more love and attention, and that fulfills Mary's dysfunctional need.
I mean, it's not wholly fair to say dysfunctional, but that's what she's dealing with in the example I just gave.
(13:57):
Not the story I just read, but the example I just gave where Mary doesn't want John to act in a certain way, or Mary doesn't
feel like she's being loved or given enough attention.
So she goes silent and gains, it's called secondary gain as well, she gains something from her silence.
And when that gain comes in, she might start to come back, fulfilling this recursive cycle of abusive behavior and cause and effect pretty much.
(14:28):
Every time Mary goes silent, John gets more loving, more caring.
And then Mary comes back, and the effect fulfills the cause, which leads to the next cause and effect. It's almost like stimulus response.
A person rings the bell, the dogs come running because they know every time the bell is rung, there's food.
(14:51):
The person goes silent, the other person comes running and gives them love and attention.
And the silent person feels more fulfilled, or at least is starting to get that dysfunction fulfilled, or that fear, the fear of abandonment in my example. And that completes the abuse cycle.
And when you have something that completes the abuse cycle, and when the person who does the abusive behavior gets the outcome
(15:17):
they want, they know it works, so they won't stop. It's rare when they stop.
I mean, if they're going to do this anyway, and even if they know it's hurtful, even if they see you upset, they will think
that you are causing your own upset because all you need to do is do what they want you to do. It's a no-win situation.
(15:37):
You're going to be unhappy either way when somebody does this kind of abusive behavior.
So to this person who wrote, the part that is going to be very difficult is for you to say, if that's what you need to do, then maybe you should do it. Because he really could do it.
(16:00):
But the way I look at it, and I'm sorry to even give you that idea in your head, I don't want to suggest that you do it or not.
In fact, don't listen to me, because it could happen.
But I know what happens if you don't do this.
If you don't do this, the cycle continues.
He will continue using it as a threat to you, because he knows that you fear him leaving.
(16:26):
I'm sure he's seen it in your face. He probably has seen you cry.
He's probably heard you say, please don't do that. Please don't say that. Because he can see the fear. He can feel it from you. You're emitting it. You are emoting it. At least that's my guess.
You didn't really say that, but in your words in this message, I'm sure that's what's happening.
(16:47):
And I'm sure you've said plenty of times, please stop doing that.
Because if he knows that you don't want him to do it, that's exactly what he is going to do.
So saying something like, if that's what you need to do, if he says, well, I'm going to leave, you know, that's it.
I'm going to pack up my bags and get out of this house and leave this relationship.
(17:10):
Instead of the resistance that you normally give, which completes the abuse cycle, not saying it's your fault, but just saying that's how they operate.
Instead of doing that, the accountability part is you saying, if you feel you need to do that, that's up to you. Something like that.
What that does is put the spotlight back on the person doing the behavior and takes it off of you.
(17:38):
Because when the spotlight is on you, when the attention's on you, then the person doing the bad behavior can get away with it.
Because now the baton has been passed, so to speak.
He has passed that baton to you.
So now you need to do something about this relationship.
And in order for me to stay in this relationship, this is him talking, in order for me to stay, you need to make a decision
(18:05):
if you're going to change your behavior or not.
Your change in behavior is to stop telling me what to do.
So basically, if you say nothing, now I'm talking to the person who wrote, if you say nothing, then he maintains his control over you.
If you say, please don't do that, please stop, he maintains his control over you.
(18:31):
If you say, if that's what you need to do, if you feel that you need to do that, then I won't stop you.
Because you have a right to do anything you want.
You're an adult, you can make that decision.
And that's scary because what if he does leave?
And this is part three of my answer. What if he does leave?
(18:54):
If he leaves, then what is the quality of that relationship in the I love you, I love you so much, I never want to leave you, which he said many times. And then he leaves.
Then what was it all about anyway?
What was the quality of your relationship? What was the longevity?
(19:14):
What was the permanence of your relationship? It wasn't there.
And the only way it's been permanent is his control over you.
And if you are with someone who wants to maintain the permanence of the relationship by keeping their control over you, then
you have to seriously consider if it was a relationship worth keeping in the first place.
(19:39):
I know none of this is what you want to hear. And there's no magic pill. Actually, that is the magic pill.
The accountability part is the magic pill, but it doesn't mean that everyone's going to be happy in the end.
My guess is when you say something like, okay, if that's what you need to do, when you say that, they're going to be surprised
(20:00):
and not know what to do with that information.
He's not going to expect that you are going to throw a wrench into his control machine. He's not going to expect that.
He is so used to controlling the outcome of all these events.
And when that happens, and the onus and responsibility of what happens next in the relationship is up to him, then you'll get to see his true colors.
(20:26):
Because someone who says, I love you, I never want to leave you, and then leaves, their true colors are showing.
And that's what I worry about with you.
Because if you have a fear of abandonment, and you have a fear that your children will be affected if he leaves, if all those
fears are driving your behaviors in the relationship and your behaviors toward him, what does the totality of the relationship look like because of that? You are in fear. He is in control. That is your relationship.
(21:01):
And I didn't read to the listeners what the ages of your children were, but they're old enough.
They're old enough to get over it.
And they're old enough to also have a relationship with him outside of your relationship if they want.
If they really do have a great connection, then maybe he makes a better dad than a boyfriend or husband.
(21:25):
Maybe he makes a better parent than a partner.
I've heard from many people that have infants, that have little children, that they're so worried how the children are going
to respond and how they're going to be mentally and emotionally and psychologically affected if the person writing to me leaves their abusive partner or whatever.
(21:49):
I get a lot of those letters and my answer is always the same.
If they stay in a relationship that has abuse, they learn how to treat others through those interactions.
So if you are in a relationship with an abusive person, they may learn that it's okay to be treated this way.
(22:10):
And if you leave an abusive relationship, your kids may learn that it's important to protect yourself and it's important to
honor your boundaries and make sure nobody crosses them.
So it's important not to prioritize a family structure for children. And this is my own opinion.
(22:31):
I'm not telling you that I'm a child expert, child psychologist or anything like that.
But my opinion is that you shouldn't prioritize a family structure with a toxic family dynamic.
You shouldn't prioritize family first when a part of the family or a component of the family is harmful or toxic.
(22:56):
We always see keep the family together for the kids sake.
And again, this is my opinion and there are religious beliefs that have this alternate opinion.
But my opinion is if there's a toxic element or abusive behavior in the family and it is consistent and persistent, it's happening a lot.
(23:18):
Then my priority is what the kids will learn from that.
And of course, what you will learn in that situation as well. What are you teaching yourself?
What are you exposing yourself to when you're in that?
This is something I just thought of when I woke up this morning.
I said, what you fill your head with, you go to bed with.
(23:40):
I woke up thinking, okay, what happened yesterday?
What did I fill my head with? And what dreams did I have?
And when I woke up, how did I feel?
And I remember watching a lot of scary movies when I was younger and what I filled my head with, I went to bed with.
And how about abuse and toxicity throughout the day?
(24:01):
What you fill your head with, you go to bed with.
This is you carrying your day into your night, into your next day, into your night.
And when you're with somebody that you are always feeling confused or fearful or upset or sad, all of these feelings you take with you, you are walking forward.
(24:22):
This is very similar to that quote, wherever you go, there you are.
And so what you fill your head with, you go to bed with, might have a lot of meanings to a lot of different people.
But the way I see it is if my relationship, if my work environment, if anything that I was exposed to was draining me and
(24:45):
making me feel bad more than 50% of the time, meaning I feel bad more than I feel good, then I know that I'm taking that with
me in some way, shape or form.
And it could be just a low level feeling underneath how you feel or something that's pervasive and at the forefront of your
(25:06):
mind and you can't stop thinking about it.
And what that has to do with kids is what they are exposed to throughout the day. What are they exposed to?
This is what the whole point of that rhyme I made is, what am I exposed to throughout the day that I'm taking with me?
(25:26):
So if somebody prioritizes a family with a toxic element or abuse, then those children are also exposed to that toxic element and abuse.
And that's what they're taking with them going forward.
But if it's a, I'll just say it, broken family, if it's a family that has split up and now that abusive element isn't so pervasive
(25:51):
at the forefront anymore, maybe they're still a part of their lives, maybe they're not, but it's not every day or it's not
as much as it used to be.
Then there's some reprieve, there's some break, and maybe that break gives them more balance. And again, this is my opinion.
This may be something that flies in the face of your belief.
(26:13):
Or you believe that the family should never be apart, growing up in a dysfunctional home myself with an abusive alcoholic
for a stepfather, wow, you know, my life would have been different if I wasn't exposed to that every single day of my life. I probably wouldn't have this show.
(26:33):
Maybe I wouldn't be the person I am today.
And I actually, I know I wouldn't be the person I am today.
Maybe a lot of good things would have happened to me or maybe worse things would have happened to me.
I do know that it took me a lot longer to heal throughout my life because I had that exposure every single day of my at least 19 years of my life.
And it's quite possible that I would not have as much knowledge about this subject because I wouldn't have taken the route I did in my life. So, who knows?
(27:05):
And as grateful as I am for my childhood and the abuse I witnessed and the dysfunction that I experienced and the very scary
environment that I was in, as much as I am grateful for that because it did shape who I am today, I do wonder what it would
have been like had I not experienced that kind of upbringing.
(27:28):
And I'm not saying this to make anyone feel bad for having kids and being in a situation with an abusive person or anything like that. That's not what this is about.
Because you could bring up a child in a perfect environment and they can still turn out going to therapy.
They can still do things that would surprise you.
(27:50):
And then you can have a child in a dysfunctional home or an alcoholic home come out and pursue a path of helping others. That's where I went.
I pursued a path of helping others and that fulfilled me and that gave meaning to my life. So, you never know. You don't.
So, this is why I'm giving you both sides of the coin where a child can grow up in an abusive household and come out fine
(28:17):
and a child can grow up in a perfect household and come out abusive. It can happen.
I just know what I would choose if I were in that situation.
I would rather take the chance of not having the toxic element in the relationship. And that doesn't mean automatically leaving.
(28:38):
It might mean having a hard conversation. It might mean going to therapy.
It might mean a lot of things.
Some people just need to be told, hey, you better stop doing that because I don't want that in our relationship.
This is one of those pick your battles wisely moments.
If they're dangerous and violent, you don't want to get into that conversation.
(29:00):
But I do hear from a lot of people that haven't had this conversation, that haven't said, if you want to leave, then leave. Accountability.
The person who wrote to me said, he keeps threatening to leave and I want him to stop and I tell him to stop.
But if you said, okay, fine, if that's what you need to do, then that's your choice. I'm not going to stop you. I hope you don't. I hope you stay.
(29:25):
I hope you want to work this out.
But if that's what you feel you need to do, then I'm not going to get in your way.
I will honor the path that you believe you need to take.
What that does, that accountability factor and having the hard conversation like that, is it will change the direction of the relationship.
(29:47):
Yes, there's a chance it will go in the direction you don't like.
And there's also a chance they'll stop doing it because they realize that you are no longer threatened by it. Again, that could go either way.
But I know the path that I would take because I don't want that toxicity.
I don't want the emotionally abusive behavior.
I don't want somebody who controls me like that in the relationship.
(30:10):
And if I had children, I wouldn't want them to be exposed to that as well because I don't want them to know that it's okay to tolerate that.
Let me just address this last sentence.
I'm going to re-read you the last sentence in this message. He rarely apologizes for hurting me.
My resentment is growing because it doesn't seem that he cares that he's hurting me.
(30:34):
Or his solution is to break up because he can't or won't stop or change his behavior.
If somebody doesn't care or doesn't seem to care that they're hurting you, please let that land. Please let that land.
And the very last thing that she said, or his solution is to break up because he can't or won't stop or change this. I look at it this way.
(31:02):
Sometimes we have to say, that's okay.
If you don't want to change, I honor that in you.
I honor the path that you want to take, but I can't be around that anymore.
I can't be around somebody who refuses to change, even though they know it hurts me. Stay strong. Thanks for sharing this.
(31:23):
Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200-point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
If you've discovered that you are doing the hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about and you want to change that about
(31:47):
yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from being emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with some free lessons right away.
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
(32:07):
safe listening button on the podcast page over at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone and you're not going crazy.
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love, and you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
(32:31):
I'm I'm
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