April 14, 2025 • 42 mins
You'd think it'd be easy to figure out: The hurtful one is the abusive one. But what happens when the victim gets convinced they are the abuser? Determining that while in the abuse cycle can sometimes be very difficult. However, I make it very clear in this episode.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship, from simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors. You deserve respecting kindness.
(00:10):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
Question I get often is, am I the abusive one? Am I the hurtful one? Am I the difficult one?
(00:34):
I've answered it a few times on this show, and I probably answer it every episode, but that's what I hear often is people
write to me and say, this is happening in my relationship. Am I the narcissist? Am I the emotionally abusive one? And here's my stock answer.
My stock answer is emotionally abusive people listen to shows like this to prove the other person is the problem, hoping they
(01:01):
can find tools to make that person show up better. That's the emotionally abusive person side.
So the emotionally abusive person will listen to to prove the other person is the problem, hoping they can find tools to make that person show up better.
In other words, to control or change the other person.
(01:24):
The victims of emotional abuse will listen to this show because they want to show up as the best version of themselves so
that they aren't a problem to that person. Do you hear the difference? Do you get the difference?
I'm not saying emotionally abusive people don't listen to this show for that reason too.
(01:47):
Like there are some emotionally abusive people that start their healing journey.
And so they will listen to a show like this and they will try to learn about their own behavior so that they don't do those behaviors anymore. And that is huge. That is commendable. And I encourage that.
(02:09):
But once they start listening to a show like this for that reason, to heal themselves, then technically they're no longer emotionally abusive.
I mean, they may still have behaviors. They may still have thoughts. They may actually do those behaviors.
And those behaviors may be emotionally abusive, but they have changed course, altered their trajectory.
(02:34):
When somebody listens to a show like this to heal themselves, to focus on themselves, to show up as the best version of themselves,
usually I find 99% of the time the person who is doing that is not the narcissist, not the sociopath, not the emotionally abusive person.
(02:56):
And I'm not putting them all in the same category.
I'm just saying there's one side of the equation and then the other.
And this one side of the equation, the abusive side, contains a variety of people.
The non-abusive side, the victim side of the equation, is a victim to those abusive people.
(03:16):
So when somebody listens to this show to heal, to learn about their own behaviors, to improve themselves, they are typically not abusive themselves. Doesn't mean they aren't.
Doesn't mean that everyone listening right now that is doing it for that purpose may not or doesn't have abusive tendencies.
(03:39):
We all may actually do abusive behaviors and not be abusive people. Those are just behaviors. They're one-offs or two-offs.
And we usually learn and tell ourselves, oh gee, I don't want to do that again. That's really hurtful.
When I hurt my wife, yikes, I never ever want to hurt her again. I hate seeing her in pain.
(04:04):
And so if I make a mistake or become emotionally triggered and say or do something stupid and she gets hurt, wow, that makes me feel so bad.
There's a sympathy and empathy component to stopping abusive behaviors.
And in order to stop abusive behaviors, you have to have that component. At a minimum, sympathy. I feel bad I did that. At most, empathy.
(04:35):
That would feel terrible if I were in that person's shoes.
And then I can look back at my own behaviors from their perspective.
Sympathy is feeling bad for someone else and feeling bad that you did something to someone else.
And empathy is imagining you were that person that it happened to and feeling really bad. Feeling what they feel.
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Because when you can feel what they feel, it's going to be hard to be hurtful.
And that's what most victims of abusive behavior feel.
They feel what it feels like to be that person, which is why they're usually not the hurtful person.
So that's another way to differentiate between being a hurtful person and not a hurtful person.
(05:24):
If you actually feel bad for the other person that feels bad because of you.
So as I was saying, emotionally abusive people listen to shows like this to prove that the other person is the problem, hoping
they can find tools or the words or the proof that they need to show that the other person is at fault.
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Whereas victims of emotional abuse listen to this show because they want to show up as the best version of themselves so that
they aren't a problem in the relationship.
To further explain that, emotionally abusive people don't listen to better themselves.
They listen to try and better the other person.
(06:09):
Victims of emotional abuse, however, listen to better themselves.
That way they can show up as the best person possible.
The best partner, the best family member, the best friend, whatever.
So if you think about writing to me or someone that talks about this stuff online or a therapist or whoever, if you're writing
(06:32):
to find out how to show up as a better person, you are either the victim of abusive behavior or hurtful behavior or you're
on the healing path of stopping the abusive behavior.
And you can tell if you were that person before, the abusive person, the hurtful person, the difficult one in the relationship.
You can tell if you were that person before, if you didn't feel this way before, if you always felt righteous, if you always
(07:01):
felt like you were right, they were wrong and nothing they could do would ever be good enough for you.
Or even if they did something that you wanted them to do, it still wasn't enough to make you happy.
You always found things that were wrong, that they did wrong, that they said wrong.
So if you were that person and you realize I shouldn't be treating someone like that, that's not loving.
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In fact, that might even feel hurtful.
If you have transformed from the way I just described into a person that feels empathy and feels empathy, you know you're on a healing path. At least that's the assumption.
The assumption is that you are no longer focused on them trying to get them to change, trying to make them see that they're
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a problem and make them feel bad for being a problem. You're not focused on them anymore. You're focused on yourself. That's how I can differentiate typically.
I'm not saying it works 100% of the time.
I'm saying that most of the time when people write to me and they ask, am I the problem? Am I the abusive one? Am I the narcissist?
(08:17):
My immediate response is if you are writing to me because you want to show up as a better person and you don't want to be
hurtful and you're not trying to change or control the other person, then you are probably victim to some hurtful or abusive behavior.
And finally, if you still question if you are the abusive one or the narcissist or name that tune, if you think you're that
(08:45):
person, emotionally abusive people never want to be a part of the blame. They only want to fix.
They only want to solve the problem and they think the other person is the problem.
And now I know this can work both ways.
The victim of abuse can look at the other person and say, yeah, they are the problem.
(09:08):
Usually if that happens, if the victim writes to me and say, I know the other person's a problem, they're not asking me that question.
They're not asking the question, am I the victim or the abuser? They're not asking that question.
So this is for the people who don't know.
This is for the people listening right now who aren't sure what side of the fence they're on because what often happens, like
(09:34):
if this is unusual to hear for you, like how wouldn't, how would you not know if it's unusual for you to hear?
It probably means you don't understand that abuse victims are often led to believe that they are the problem and they are
led to believe they are the problem, usually through crazy making where the abusive person or the hurtful person will change the reality for the victim.
(10:03):
And it's a very subtle thing sometimes because the victim is usually in a relationship with somebody they have come to trust.
But if the trustful person changes that other person's reality, then the victim of that crazy making or gaslighting will tend
(10:23):
to believe that person because they've come to trust and sometimes almost always love that other person because why would
a trusting partner or family or friend, why would they mislead you? Why would they mislead you?
Why would they make you think something isn't real?
The victim of that kind of behavior might hear themselves saying something along the lines of, I thought we said we were going out tonight.
(10:53):
And the abuser might say, no, we didn't talk about that at all.
And then the victim might say, but I could have sworn we did. I know we didn't.
In fact, last night we were talking and you said we were going out at six.
And then the crazy maker will say something along the lines of, no, you said you couldn't get dressed in time after work.
(11:16):
They'll say something that it sounds like you might say. It sounds reasonable.
It sounds logical, but it's not true.
Now, again, this could be a one-off.
You can have a conversation with somebody and be wrong, be wrong about what you thought and what you believed and it could happen to them as well.
(11:37):
They could be wrong about what they thought and they believed and it doesn't mean they're a crazy maker. It doesn't mean they're a gaslighter.
It just might mean there was a misunderstanding or they forgot or remembered things differently. So that can happen.
But if it's a consistent thing, then the crazy making will compound.
(11:58):
See, a healthy relationship, there's no confusion or at least very, very little confusion. Everything is on the table.
You don't have to go through scenarios like this.
You aren't saying that's not what you said. Oh, yes, it is. I mean, again, those are one-offs.
They can happen once in a while.
(12:20):
But if it's often, the victim of that will find themselves more and more confused, more and more unable to trust their own
decisions, their own judgments, their own instincts. And this gets worse over time. Why does somebody do that?
Why does somebody make somebody feel crazy? It's all about power and control.
(12:46):
If you feel crazy, guess who you're going to trust?
The person that is in your life, who is the closest person that you have come to trust, at least at one point, who is also
the crazy maker, who is also making you feel confused and making you feel uneasy and even unhappy.
(13:08):
In a regular healthy relationship, we want the other person to not feel confused. We want them to feel happy.
We want them to feel safe and comfortable.
We want their quality of life to be high, to be good, and not down in the dumps where they feel like they can't even trust themselves.
(13:32):
If my wife said, I can't trust my own decisions anymore, I would want to know why.
Why can't you trust your own decisions? What's going on, honey?
I want to know because I trust your decisions.
I think you're a great decision maker. Let's talk about this.
And I would want to lift her spirits and make her feel better. What happens in the abusive relationship? The opposite.
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The abuser does not want the victim to feel better.
They want the victim to feel unstable.
They want them to feel powerless so that that victim will come to the abuser because the abuser has the answers.
And I'm using the term abuser just for brevity, but the abusive, hurtful person wants to be in control.
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And in order to maintain that control, keeping the victim out of control helps them maintain it.
And that helps them keep their power over the victim because if the victim feels powerless, they're not going to go anywhere.
At least that's the goal of the abuser.
If a victim feels like they don't trust their own decisions, then the abuser becomes the victim's decision maker.
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And if the abuser is making decisions for the victim, then the victim is now even more powerless.
And why does an abuser want a victim powerless?
We talked about wanting to control them, but why do they want to control them?
I've always asked this question where if you don't like how someone's showing up in your life, why do you want to be in their life?
(15:07):
I ask that of the abusive people that I've talked to.
Why do you want somebody in your life that you can't accept?
Why do you keep someone in your you want to change, that you want to make them a different person than they are?
(15:28):
Instead of trying to control them and change them, which makes everyone miserable, why don't you just get out of their life?
I mean, I'm not trying to encourage separation or divorce or anything like that.
It's just more of a philosophical question.
Philosophically speaking, why would you have someone in your life that you couldn't accept as is?
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And I ask that of the emotionally abusive people that I talk to.
And the answer is usually because I love them.
And as hard as that may be to understand for a lot of people listening, they have learned to love in an unhealthy way.
They have learned that in order to have love, they must control what love looks like.
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They must control the other person to show up in a way that feels safe for them.
Because they don't have very good coping skills.
If they had good coping skills, then when challenges came along, they could handle it. They could bring it up.
They could say, hey, what you just did was not very respectful.
Let's talk about this because I don't want to feel disrespected in a relationship.
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I tell that to abuse victims all the time.
Telling the abusive person that what they just did is hurtful or disrespectful or makes me feel like you don't love me.
Will you please not do that again?
And hopefully that gets the message across that the other person's not being very kind.
(16:58):
So will they please be kind next time?
And maybe that's all it will take for some people, but usually not.
Usually when you're dealing with somebody who is emotionally abusive and has been like this most their adult life, they're
not going to just switch on a dime.
They're not going to change right away.
(17:19):
But something like that, a small seed of saying, hey, that hurts when you do that, will you please not do that?
Or that feels disrespectful or it feels like you don't love me.
When you say something like that, hopefully it gets through. Hopefully they get it.
But if they don't, that's why I do what I do.
And this is the show that talks about that.
This is why this show continues, because you're going to have challenges in a relationship where when you say something like
(17:48):
that to somebody and they don't change, what do you do then?
And coming back to what I was saying, why do emotionally abusive people want to control you?
Why can't they just leave you if they don't accept you because they think that this is how love is supposed to be.
And they haven't dealt with their own coping mechanisms and their own coping mechanisms cause them to become emotionally triggered
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and then do all sorts of behaviors.
Emotional abuse stems from the triggers that get activated because of coping mechanisms. Most of the time, almost always.
If they don't know how to cope with a challenge that comes along, that means they're not addressing it in a healthy way.
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They're instead trying to coerce or deceive or manipulate or control so that they don't have to deal with it.
Because coping with some challenges can be hard. It can be difficult.
What if the person you're with in a romantic relationship is no longer attracted to you?
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That would be a very difficult thing to bring up.
But instead of bringing it up, an abusive person, somebody who doesn't know how to cope with such challenges, and that's a difficult one. I know it.
It's a difficult one to bring up because it's going to hurt feelings.
But if that person doesn't know how to cope, they may become more abusive by making you feel bad, trying to make you feel
(19:26):
guilty and responsible for all the problems in the relationship, and trying to push you away either subtly or overtly so that
they don't have to be the bad guy and you have to take responsibility for leaving or whatever they want you to do.
This is how some abusive behavior works.
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They continue showing up in a way that is confusing but hurtful. Why are they being so hurtful? Why are they being so mean?
There doesn't seem to be a logical explanation for it.
It may be something they don't want to talk about, they don't want to bring up because they haven't learned a coping strategy to do that.
(20:07):
They haven't learned how to express themselves in an honest way and face the music. That happens a lot.
A lot of emotionally abusive people do not know how to face the music, do not want to face the music, so they won't bring
things up and they'll just be hurtful.
It's their way of pushing you away so that you have to say something and be the bad guy.
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Because if you say, hey, I don't like the way I'm being treated, that sounds like you complaining.
Hey, I don't like when you say that about me. That sounds like you complaining, right?
I don't like when you call me that name. They might say, you're so sensitive. Why are you so sensitive? I can't say anything around you. Making you the bad guy.
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That's what happens sometimes is that some people do not have healthy coping mechanisms and this is what they end up doing.
They end up pushing you away without actually saying, get away.
They're just hurtful in so many ways in order for you to feel like you have to be the bad guy or have to be the one to say
(21:20):
something so that they can blame you for ending things or bringing things up. Why? So you'll feel more powerless.
It really does come down to how you feel inside you.
If you feel worse about yourself or worse about bringing something up, something wrong in the relationship, something wrong
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with them, you always look like the bad guy.
And as long as you look like the bad guy, they can do no wrong.
So my whole goal with this episode was to read this message that I received and talk about all this stuff that I've already
talked about, but I'm going to read you this, at least pieces and parts of this message so I can kind of wrap everything up
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in a nice little bow as we conclude this episode.
This person wrote, I'm looking for advice on my relationship.
I've been with my wife for a number of years and we each brought a child into the relationship.
My wife believes I'm controlling and narcissistic and manipulative, and I believe it's her.
Now, before I continue, you remember what I said at the beginning of the episode, who writes in wanting to improve themselves,
(22:32):
wanting to know if they're the abusive one.
It's usually the person who wants to improve themselves.
And I know there's a possibility that an abusive person is listening right now saying, Hey, that's a good idea.
That's what I'll do because I want to get one over or keep my control in the relationship and prove that I'm right and they're wrong.
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I know there are people that listen to this show trying to get those tools, but as I always say, those people reveal themselves
in a very short period of time because they try to gather tools or words or behaviors so that they can say these words or
do these behaviors and get away with their bad behaviors, their controlling or manipulative behaviors.
(23:19):
And when they do that, they act in a way that a healing person, a healing, emotionally abusive person might act, but it doesn't last because it's not real.
They will not be able to handle it for very long and you will see through it.
So, I'm just throwing this in there in case you're worried somebody that you know might listen to this show and say, Hey, that's what I'll do. I'll act this way.
(23:46):
And I'll say those words and I'll appear like the victim.
I'll appear like I'm healing or, you know, I'll appear like an abusive person. I've seen this happen. Honestly, I've seen people do that.
And every single time I've seen it, it blows up in their face because they try to act in a healthier way than what I call healthier.
(24:11):
And I've done this long enough that I know what healthy looks like.
People like that will show up in what they believe is a healthier way, but it doesn't last because their emotional triggers
build up and they eventually reveal themselves.
And then they can't go back because they went through all the fake steps.
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They faked it until they tried to make it, but they couldn't make it because it wasn't real because they didn't address their emotional triggers. They didn't address their coping mechanisms. They didn't work on themselves.
They just stayed focused on controlling or changing the other person.
So, I'm just throwing that in there just in case you think, well, what if, you know, so-and-so listens and they get all this
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advice from you on how to act like a healthy person.
If they do that, then they will reveal themselves soon enough. You won't have to wait long. It does happen. So, don't worry about that.
I'm going to continue reading this message.
I believe I've made mistakes and I've broken her trust and I do take blame and accountability for those things.
(25:17):
And the short is I broke up with my daughter's father when she was nine months old.
We remained great friends and co-parents and we would do stuff together with my daughter and we were always platonic after the breakup.
But within months, a couple months of meeting my wife, I guess this is a same-sex marriage, within a couple of months of them
(25:40):
meeting, my ex and my new wife, she said it was an inappropriate relationship that I had with my ex and that I should stop being friends.
And against my own feelings, I did.
And then it became I was only to speak to him if an extremely necessary issue came up about my child. I agreed to that too.
(26:01):
And then I was to block him and speak only through my daughter, who was a child.
Am I wrong for having him as a close friend when it was in a appropriate? That's her first question.
I don't think I have to say this. I think you know the answer. The answer is crystal clear.
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You have a child with your ex, and as long as your child is in your life, your ex will probably be in your life too, at least until your child 18.
And I mean, typically, and because of that, your wife has to accept that that person is in your life and your child is in your life. And that is the entire package. That's my answer.
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When she married you, she married that package.
When I married Asha, my wife, her crazy ex-husband and their child, that was the package.
And I was ready to assume that responsibility, if you want to call it that.
I was ready to accept she would be talking to him and she would be arranging things with him for their son.
(27:23):
I had to accept that there was no choice, whether I liked it or not.
And whether I liked it or not, I didn't give her a hard time. I didn't say anything.
She already had a hard enough time to deal with him.
And I mean, those were my words, crazy ex-husband.
She had a very challenging marriage with him.
(27:45):
And so I know that their relationship was over, gone. I felt no threat.
And it sounds like your wife feels a threat, not because of you or not because of him, but because of her own insecurities.
Or if she feels a threat because of you, it's because she doesn't trust you.
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I mean, I've talked about jealousy on the Overwhelmed Brain, my other podcast, and I've learned that jealousy is all about trust.
Because if you trusted the person 100%, if you trusted someone 100%, you would know for a fact that there would be no reason
to fear them leaving or them finding someone else. Jealousy is all about trust.
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I know there's insecurities and other things that are mixed in there.
But again, if it came down to it, if you trust someone 100%, there would be no reason to be jealous, because you would trust them.
If she doesn't trust you, then that's on her and she would have to either trust you or not, but she has to deal with that.
(28:59):
So that's my answer to your first question.
And it's not something I know that's going to be easy to talk to her about because she has insecurities that she has to deal
with and trust issues that she has to deal with.
And if she doesn't deal with those things, you're going to suffer. You're going to suffer.
If I was jealous about my wife's friend or my wife's ex, she would say, you'll have to get over it.
(29:26):
She would tell me that you'll have to get over it because there's nothing going on.
And if you believe there's something going on, there's nothing I can do about it. Sorry.
And if I was whining and insecure and said, yeah, but you know, what if he wants to take you away?
And what if he wants you back?
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She would say, you really think that's going to happen?
You really think that I spent the last 10 years with you and I suddenly want my ex-husband back? It doesn't make any sense. And she would be right. It doesn't make any sense. Why am I bringing it up? It doesn't make any sense.
So she would say, sorry, that's on you.
You'll have to figure that stuff out.
If you can't trust me after all this time, I don't know what to say.
(30:11):
And her doing that would actually point the spotlight back on me.
So I have to deal with it, which is what should happen.
Unless there's a real reason to be jealous.
Like she'd been unfaithful before, but when there's no reason, then there's no reason unless there is.
And if there is, then it still comes back to me.
(30:31):
Like if I had a reason not to I now have to make a decision.
If I want to be with somebody that I can't trust, or I could stick around and give her a hard time all the time, which makes both of us miserable.
I'm not saying this is easy to do.
I'm not saying you can solve this problem by saying, Hey, that's on you.
(30:53):
I'm just giving you an example of what somebody who is more secure in the relationship might say.
And if you have somebody who's secure or both people who are secure in a relationship, then things like this, of course, won't
come up, but it does come down to trust.
And, um, that's my, I don't know if you'd call that an answer to this person, but that's my perspective regarding this first comment or question that she had.
(31:19):
So she goes on to say a few other things.
I'm not going to read them all here, but most of her message was about her wife, not liking a person in her life or having
that person as a friend or an ex and slowly isolating her from those people. Isolation is emotionally abusive.
(31:42):
When you systematically say, you can't see that person anymore.
And I don't want you talking to that person anymore or that family member or that ex or that friend.
When you do that, or when somebody does that to you, it's called isolation.
It's when somebody slowly removes other people from your life or remove you from them.
(32:08):
Sometimes that involves moving away from those people.
Like they take you with them to a place that you have no friends or family.
And now you are isolated from everyone else. Mainly.
So there is less influence in your life, the less influence in your life, the less chance that the controlling abusive partner or person will be discovered.
(32:34):
And the less chance they are discovered, the longer they get to keep their power over you.
Now, some people aren't doing this consciously.
Some people just have so much insecurity that they don't want other people in that person's life.
If I was so insecure that I didn't want my wife to have friends, that would make sense that I would do something like that.
(32:59):
It wouldn't necessarily be a conscious choice to isolate her, but it would be me trying to make my life more comfortable.
So I don't have to think about other people being a threat.
It all has to do with my dysfunctional insecurities that I haven't addressed, that I need to work on if that were the case.
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So in this person's case, you are being isolated from friends and family and exes and having to do with trust, having to do with insecurities.
And if you don't address that and say, look, if you don't trust me, there's nothing I can do or say about it. You just have to.
And if you can't, then I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you, but these are my friends.
(33:50):
And that's only if you feel safe enough to say that if that person's dangerous, you know, violent, you probably don't want
to get into that conversation, you know, pick your battles wisely.
But it really does come down to when somebody gets into a relationship with you, or you get into a relationship with them, you are getting the whole package. I can't stress it enough.
(34:11):
When Asha decided to connect with me and be in a relationship with me, she had to accept my family members as a part of me.
Doesn't mean she has to like them.
Doesn't mean she has to accept them in her life.
She just has to accept them in my life.
Unfortunately, if she doesn't like them, and I'm a part of her life, then they're going to be a part of her life as well.
(34:37):
So it is a lot easier if she can at least tolerate them, at least get along with them, and even better, love them, include them in her life. That would be fantastic.
But it's not required, but it's a lot easier.
Just like there are members of her family that I could choose to accept or not accept, but choosing not to accept them only makes my life more difficult.
(35:02):
So I would rather treat them as family as much as possible, unless they're completely crazy or psycho or dysfunctional, like
I don't plan on being friends with her ex, even though he has been kind and treated me with decency.
But I have no reason to have him in my life.
I have no reason to call him.
But if he's around, I'm certainly going to treat him with respect and kindness and trust that my wife is making the right
(35:29):
decisions regarding any conversations that she has with him, because I trust her.
And if I'm insecure about it, I need to go deal with that on my own.
I need to deal with that myself.
My wife comes with that package, her son, her ex, her other exes, her male friends, her female friends, everyone in her life
(35:52):
that she chooses to have in her life. I look at it this way.
I look at it as I trust her to choose wisely.
I trust her to make friends that make sense.
I trust her to have exes as friends because she doesn't want to have them as partners anymore.
(36:16):
The past is the past, so I can trust her now.
If I didn't trust her in all those areas of life, then I wouldn't want to be with her because I wouldn't want to feel insecure
in my own relationship with, especially with somebody I married, for the rest of my life.
If I felt that insecure, I need to deal with it.
(36:40):
Again, if there was a reason to feel insecure, like she cheated on me or something at one time and it was really bothering
me, I would have to a conversation or a thousand conversations with her until I felt comfortable, until I trusted her again.
But if I couldn't ever reach that point of trust, I'm not going to put her through my inability to trust.
(37:05):
I'm not going to put her through my own insecurities.
I'm not going to make her responsible for my own insecurities.
I'm going to address them in myself and even say, hey, look, I love you, but I can't trust you, so I'm leaving.
Even though that sounds cold, that sounds heartless, why would I want to torture her?
(37:25):
I'm exaggerating, but why would I want to put her through that?
I mean, it could be torture to her if I always bothered her about that.
Why would I want to put her through my inability to trust her? That's how I see it. You might disagree.
You might have a different perspective on that.
You might have a better perspective on that, but I don't think it's fair to put anyone through my own inability to trust someone
(37:53):
that I'm supposed to be with for the rest of my life. I don't think it's fair.
So I have developed a philosophy that if I have a problem with her, it's my problem, not hers. Period. That's it.
If I have a problem with her, I have to deal with it inside of me, not try to change or control her or anything like that, because that's the old me.
(38:17):
I never want to be that person again.
I've learned that if I have a problem with somebody else, I'm going to deal with it inside of me.
That means I have to ask myself, well, am I okay with this?
Is this a violation of my values or my boundaries?
And if I'm not okay with it, am I going to make her suffer with my inability to not be okay with it?
(38:42):
That doesn't mean I'm not going to have a conversation or express myself.
I'm not going to not have a conversation.
I'm not going to not express myself.
I'm going to say, hey, I'm having a challenge here. Let's talk about it.
And hopefully we can get somewhere with it.
Hopefully she can put my mind at ease or something like that.
But I'm not going to stay with somebody that I will have a problem with continually because that just makes the relationship miserable for both of us.
(39:13):
I want to thank that person who wrote to me and I hope what I talked about today is helpful to you.
And, um, I wish you much strength and healing through this.
And I hope you're able to get through this unscathed and maybe even help each other heal through this.
I'm not sure what that involves or what that entails for both of you.
(39:33):
But, um, when it comes down to it, when the other person is continually blaming you and continuing, continually calling you
bad names and whatever they're doing, it's time to go inward and ask yourself, is this something I want to deal with for the rest of my life?
Is this something that is violating my boundaries, violating my values? Is this ever going to change?
(39:56):
You may not have the answers to some of these questions, but hopefully you have some answers.
And, um, when they won't change and they keep pointing the finger and they keep isolating you from friends and family, and
you feel smaller and smaller when you're with them instead of larger than life and lifted up and happy, you might want to
(40:22):
evaluate where you are and where this relationship is going.
And, um, just seriously think about if you want this for the rest of your life.
And if not, it's time to tackle it. It's time to bring it up.
And if you can't bring it up because they're violent or scary, it may be time to make a, an even bigger decision for yourself. Again, I hope this is helpful.
(40:43):
Thank you for listening and share this with others who Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200 point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
(41:04):
And if you've discovered that you are doing hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about, and you want to change that
about yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with your free lessons right away.
(41:25):
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
safe listening button over on the podcast page at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone and you're not going crazy.
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love, and you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
Welcome to Love and Abuse, the show about navigating the difficult relationship, from simple disagreements to emotionally abusive behaviors. You deserve respecting kindness.
(00:10):
All the information on this show is meant for educational purposes only.
Always seek a professional for your mental health and well-being, and always pick your battles wisely. I'm your host, Paul Colaianni.
Question I get often is, am I the abusive one? Am I the hurtful one? Am I the difficult one?
(00:34):
I've answered it a few times on this show, and I probably answer it every episode, but that's what I hear often is people
write to me and say, this is happening in my relationship. Am I the narcissist? Am I the emotionally abusive one? And here's my stock answer.
My stock answer is emotionally abusive people listen to shows like this to prove the other person is the problem, hoping they
(01:01):
can find tools to make that person show up better. That's the emotionally abusive person side.
So the emotionally abusive person will listen to to prove the other person is the problem, hoping they can find tools to make that person show up better.
In other words, to control or change the other person.
(01:24):
The victims of emotional abuse will listen to this show because they want to show up as the best version of themselves so
that they aren't a problem to that person. Do you hear the difference? Do you get the difference?
I'm not saying emotionally abusive people don't listen to this show for that reason too.
(01:47):
Like there are some emotionally abusive people that start their healing journey.
And so they will listen to a show like this and they will try to learn about their own behavior so that they don't do those behaviors anymore. And that is huge. That is commendable. And I encourage that.
(02:09):
But once they start listening to a show like this for that reason, to heal themselves, then technically they're no longer emotionally abusive.
I mean, they may still have behaviors. They may still have thoughts. They may actually do those behaviors.
And those behaviors may be emotionally abusive, but they have changed course, altered their trajectory.
(02:34):
When somebody listens to a show like this to heal themselves, to focus on themselves, to show up as the best version of themselves,
usually I find 99% of the time the person who is doing that is not the narcissist, not the sociopath, not the emotionally abusive person.
(02:56):
And I'm not putting them all in the same category.
I'm just saying there's one side of the equation and then the other.
And this one side of the equation, the abusive side, contains a variety of people.
The non-abusive side, the victim side of the equation, is a victim to those abusive people.
(03:16):
So when somebody listens to this show to heal, to learn about their own behaviors, to improve themselves, they are typically not abusive themselves. Doesn't mean they aren't.
Doesn't mean that everyone listening right now that is doing it for that purpose may not or doesn't have abusive tendencies.
(03:39):
We all may actually do abusive behaviors and not be abusive people. Those are just behaviors. They're one-offs or two-offs.
And we usually learn and tell ourselves, oh gee, I don't want to do that again. That's really hurtful.
When I hurt my wife, yikes, I never ever want to hurt her again. I hate seeing her in pain.
(04:04):
And so if I make a mistake or become emotionally triggered and say or do something stupid and she gets hurt, wow, that makes me feel so bad.
There's a sympathy and empathy component to stopping abusive behaviors.
And in order to stop abusive behaviors, you have to have that component. At a minimum, sympathy. I feel bad I did that. At most, empathy.
(04:35):
That would feel terrible if I were in that person's shoes.
And then I can look back at my own behaviors from their perspective.
Sympathy is feeling bad for someone else and feeling bad that you did something to someone else.
And empathy is imagining you were that person that it happened to and feeling really bad. Feeling what they feel.
(04:59):
Because when you can feel what they feel, it's going to be hard to be hurtful.
And that's what most victims of abusive behavior feel.
They feel what it feels like to be that person, which is why they're usually not the hurtful person.
So that's another way to differentiate between being a hurtful person and not a hurtful person.
(05:24):
If you actually feel bad for the other person that feels bad because of you.
So as I was saying, emotionally abusive people listen to shows like this to prove that the other person is the problem, hoping
they can find tools or the words or the proof that they need to show that the other person is at fault.
(05:48):
Whereas victims of emotional abuse listen to this show because they want to show up as the best version of themselves so that
they aren't a problem in the relationship.
To further explain that, emotionally abusive people don't listen to better themselves.
They listen to try and better the other person.
(06:09):
Victims of emotional abuse, however, listen to better themselves.
That way they can show up as the best person possible.
The best partner, the best family member, the best friend, whatever.
So if you think about writing to me or someone that talks about this stuff online or a therapist or whoever, if you're writing
(06:32):
to find out how to show up as a better person, you are either the victim of abusive behavior or hurtful behavior or you're
on the healing path of stopping the abusive behavior.
And you can tell if you were that person before, the abusive person, the hurtful person, the difficult one in the relationship.
You can tell if you were that person before, if you didn't feel this way before, if you always felt righteous, if you always
(07:01):
felt like you were right, they were wrong and nothing they could do would ever be good enough for you.
Or even if they did something that you wanted them to do, it still wasn't enough to make you happy.
You always found things that were wrong, that they did wrong, that they said wrong.
So if you were that person and you realize I shouldn't be treating someone like that, that's not loving.
(07:28):
In fact, that might even feel hurtful.
If you have transformed from the way I just described into a person that feels empathy and feels empathy, you know you're on a healing path. At least that's the assumption.
The assumption is that you are no longer focused on them trying to get them to change, trying to make them see that they're
(07:56):
a problem and make them feel bad for being a problem. You're not focused on them anymore. You're focused on yourself. That's how I can differentiate typically.
I'm not saying it works 100% of the time.
I'm saying that most of the time when people write to me and they ask, am I the problem? Am I the abusive one? Am I the narcissist?
(08:17):
My immediate response is if you are writing to me because you want to show up as a better person and you don't want to be
hurtful and you're not trying to change or control the other person, then you are probably victim to some hurtful or abusive behavior.
And finally, if you still question if you are the abusive one or the narcissist or name that tune, if you think you're that
(08:45):
person, emotionally abusive people never want to be a part of the blame. They only want to fix.
They only want to solve the problem and they think the other person is the problem.
And now I know this can work both ways.
The victim of abuse can look at the other person and say, yeah, they are the problem.
(09:08):
Usually if that happens, if the victim writes to me and say, I know the other person's a problem, they're not asking me that question.
They're not asking the question, am I the victim or the abuser? They're not asking that question.
So this is for the people who don't know.
This is for the people listening right now who aren't sure what side of the fence they're on because what often happens, like
(09:34):
if this is unusual to hear for you, like how wouldn't, how would you not know if it's unusual for you to hear?
It probably means you don't understand that abuse victims are often led to believe that they are the problem and they are
led to believe they are the problem, usually through crazy making where the abusive person or the hurtful person will change the reality for the victim.
(10:03):
And it's a very subtle thing sometimes because the victim is usually in a relationship with somebody they have come to trust.
But if the trustful person changes that other person's reality, then the victim of that crazy making or gaslighting will tend
(10:23):
to believe that person because they've come to trust and sometimes almost always love that other person because why would
a trusting partner or family or friend, why would they mislead you? Why would they mislead you?
Why would they make you think something isn't real?
The victim of that kind of behavior might hear themselves saying something along the lines of, I thought we said we were going out tonight.
(10:53):
And the abuser might say, no, we didn't talk about that at all.
And then the victim might say, but I could have sworn we did. I know we didn't.
In fact, last night we were talking and you said we were going out at six.
And then the crazy maker will say something along the lines of, no, you said you couldn't get dressed in time after work.
(11:16):
They'll say something that it sounds like you might say. It sounds reasonable.
It sounds logical, but it's not true.
Now, again, this could be a one-off.
You can have a conversation with somebody and be wrong, be wrong about what you thought and what you believed and it could happen to them as well.
(11:37):
They could be wrong about what they thought and they believed and it doesn't mean they're a crazy maker. It doesn't mean they're a gaslighter.
It just might mean there was a misunderstanding or they forgot or remembered things differently. So that can happen.
But if it's a consistent thing, then the crazy making will compound.
(11:58):
See, a healthy relationship, there's no confusion or at least very, very little confusion. Everything is on the table.
You don't have to go through scenarios like this.
You aren't saying that's not what you said. Oh, yes, it is. I mean, again, those are one-offs.
They can happen once in a while.
(12:20):
But if it's often, the victim of that will find themselves more and more confused, more and more unable to trust their own
decisions, their own judgments, their own instincts. And this gets worse over time. Why does somebody do that?
Why does somebody make somebody feel crazy? It's all about power and control.
(12:46):
If you feel crazy, guess who you're going to trust?
The person that is in your life, who is the closest person that you have come to trust, at least at one point, who is also
the crazy maker, who is also making you feel confused and making you feel uneasy and even unhappy.
(13:08):
In a regular healthy relationship, we want the other person to not feel confused. We want them to feel happy.
We want them to feel safe and comfortable.
We want their quality of life to be high, to be good, and not down in the dumps where they feel like they can't even trust themselves.
(13:32):
If my wife said, I can't trust my own decisions anymore, I would want to know why.
Why can't you trust your own decisions? What's going on, honey?
I want to know because I trust your decisions.
I think you're a great decision maker. Let's talk about this.
And I would want to lift her spirits and make her feel better. What happens in the abusive relationship? The opposite.
(13:56):
The abuser does not want the victim to feel better.
They want the victim to feel unstable.
They want them to feel powerless so that that victim will come to the abuser because the abuser has the answers.
And I'm using the term abuser just for brevity, but the abusive, hurtful person wants to be in control.
(14:18):
And in order to maintain that control, keeping the victim out of control helps them maintain it.
And that helps them keep their power over the victim because if the victim feels powerless, they're not going to go anywhere.
At least that's the goal of the abuser.
If a victim feels like they don't trust their own decisions, then the abuser becomes the victim's decision maker.
(14:43):
And if the abuser is making decisions for the victim, then the victim is now even more powerless.
And why does an abuser want a victim powerless?
We talked about wanting to control them, but why do they want to control them?
I've always asked this question where if you don't like how someone's showing up in your life, why do you want to be in their life?
(15:07):
I ask that of the abusive people that I've talked to.
Why do you want somebody in your life that you can't accept?
Why do you keep someone in your you want to change, that you want to make them a different person than they are?
(15:28):
Instead of trying to control them and change them, which makes everyone miserable, why don't you just get out of their life?
I mean, I'm not trying to encourage separation or divorce or anything like that.
It's just more of a philosophical question.
Philosophically speaking, why would you have someone in your life that you couldn't accept as is?
(15:49):
And I ask that of the emotionally abusive people that I talk to.
And the answer is usually because I love them.
And as hard as that may be to understand for a lot of people listening, they have learned to love in an unhealthy way.
They have learned that in order to have love, they must control what love looks like.
(16:14):
They must control the other person to show up in a way that feels safe for them.
Because they don't have very good coping skills.
If they had good coping skills, then when challenges came along, they could handle it. They could bring it up.
They could say, hey, what you just did was not very respectful.
Let's talk about this because I don't want to feel disrespected in a relationship.
(16:37):
I tell that to abuse victims all the time.
Telling the abusive person that what they just did is hurtful or disrespectful or makes me feel like you don't love me.
Will you please not do that again?
And hopefully that gets the message across that the other person's not being very kind.
(16:58):
So will they please be kind next time?
And maybe that's all it will take for some people, but usually not.
Usually when you're dealing with somebody who is emotionally abusive and has been like this most their adult life, they're
not going to just switch on a dime.
They're not going to change right away.
(17:19):
But something like that, a small seed of saying, hey, that hurts when you do that, will you please not do that?
Or that feels disrespectful or it feels like you don't love me.
When you say something like that, hopefully it gets through. Hopefully they get it.
But if they don't, that's why I do what I do.
And this is the show that talks about that.
This is why this show continues, because you're going to have challenges in a relationship where when you say something like
(17:48):
that to somebody and they don't change, what do you do then?
And coming back to what I was saying, why do emotionally abusive people want to control you?
Why can't they just leave you if they don't accept you because they think that this is how love is supposed to be.
And they haven't dealt with their own coping mechanisms and their own coping mechanisms cause them to become emotionally triggered
(18:13):
and then do all sorts of behaviors.
Emotional abuse stems from the triggers that get activated because of coping mechanisms. Most of the time, almost always.
If they don't know how to cope with a challenge that comes along, that means they're not addressing it in a healthy way.
(18:34):
They're instead trying to coerce or deceive or manipulate or control so that they don't have to deal with it.
Because coping with some challenges can be hard. It can be difficult.
What if the person you're with in a romantic relationship is no longer attracted to you?
(18:56):
That would be a very difficult thing to bring up.
But instead of bringing it up, an abusive person, somebody who doesn't know how to cope with such challenges, and that's a difficult one. I know it.
It's a difficult one to bring up because it's going to hurt feelings.
But if that person doesn't know how to cope, they may become more abusive by making you feel bad, trying to make you feel
(19:26):
guilty and responsible for all the problems in the relationship, and trying to push you away either subtly or overtly so that
they don't have to be the bad guy and you have to take responsibility for leaving or whatever they want you to do.
This is how some abusive behavior works.
(19:47):
They continue showing up in a way that is confusing but hurtful. Why are they being so hurtful? Why are they being so mean?
There doesn't seem to be a logical explanation for it.
It may be something they don't want to talk about, they don't want to bring up because they haven't learned a coping strategy to do that.
(20:07):
They haven't learned how to express themselves in an honest way and face the music. That happens a lot.
A lot of emotionally abusive people do not know how to face the music, do not want to face the music, so they won't bring
things up and they'll just be hurtful.
It's their way of pushing you away so that you have to say something and be the bad guy.
(20:35):
Because if you say, hey, I don't like the way I'm being treated, that sounds like you complaining.
Hey, I don't like when you say that about me. That sounds like you complaining, right?
I don't like when you call me that name. They might say, you're so sensitive. Why are you so sensitive? I can't say anything around you. Making you the bad guy.
(20:59):
That's what happens sometimes is that some people do not have healthy coping mechanisms and this is what they end up doing.
They end up pushing you away without actually saying, get away.
They're just hurtful in so many ways in order for you to feel like you have to be the bad guy or have to be the one to say
(21:20):
something so that they can blame you for ending things or bringing things up. Why? So you'll feel more powerless.
It really does come down to how you feel inside you.
If you feel worse about yourself or worse about bringing something up, something wrong in the relationship, something wrong
(21:44):
with them, you always look like the bad guy.
And as long as you look like the bad guy, they can do no wrong.
So my whole goal with this episode was to read this message that I received and talk about all this stuff that I've already
talked about, but I'm going to read you this, at least pieces and parts of this message so I can kind of wrap everything up
(22:07):
in a nice little bow as we conclude this episode.
This person wrote, I'm looking for advice on my relationship.
I've been with my wife for a number of years and we each brought a child into the relationship.
My wife believes I'm controlling and narcissistic and manipulative, and I believe it's her.
Now, before I continue, you remember what I said at the beginning of the episode, who writes in wanting to improve themselves,
(22:32):
wanting to know if they're the abusive one.
It's usually the person who wants to improve themselves.
And I know there's a possibility that an abusive person is listening right now saying, Hey, that's a good idea.
That's what I'll do because I want to get one over or keep my control in the relationship and prove that I'm right and they're wrong.
(22:55):
I know there are people that listen to this show trying to get those tools, but as I always say, those people reveal themselves
in a very short period of time because they try to gather tools or words or behaviors so that they can say these words or
do these behaviors and get away with their bad behaviors, their controlling or manipulative behaviors.
(23:19):
And when they do that, they act in a way that a healing person, a healing, emotionally abusive person might act, but it doesn't last because it's not real.
They will not be able to handle it for very long and you will see through it.
So, I'm just throwing this in there in case you're worried somebody that you know might listen to this show and say, Hey, that's what I'll do. I'll act this way.
(23:46):
And I'll say those words and I'll appear like the victim.
I'll appear like I'm healing or, you know, I'll appear like an abusive person. I've seen this happen. Honestly, I've seen people do that.
And every single time I've seen it, it blows up in their face because they try to act in a healthier way than what I call healthier.
(24:11):
And I've done this long enough that I know what healthy looks like.
People like that will show up in what they believe is a healthier way, but it doesn't last because their emotional triggers
build up and they eventually reveal themselves.
And then they can't go back because they went through all the fake steps.
(24:32):
They faked it until they tried to make it, but they couldn't make it because it wasn't real because they didn't address their emotional triggers. They didn't address their coping mechanisms. They didn't work on themselves.
They just stayed focused on controlling or changing the other person.
So, I'm just throwing that in there just in case you think, well, what if, you know, so-and-so listens and they get all this
(24:56):
advice from you on how to act like a healthy person.
If they do that, then they will reveal themselves soon enough. You won't have to wait long. It does happen. So, don't worry about that.
I'm going to continue reading this message.
I believe I've made mistakes and I've broken her trust and I do take blame and accountability for those things.
(25:17):
And the short is I broke up with my daughter's father when she was nine months old.
We remained great friends and co-parents and we would do stuff together with my daughter and we were always platonic after the breakup.
But within months, a couple months of meeting my wife, I guess this is a same-sex marriage, within a couple of months of them
(25:40):
meeting, my ex and my new wife, she said it was an inappropriate relationship that I had with my ex and that I should stop being friends.
And against my own feelings, I did.
And then it became I was only to speak to him if an extremely necessary issue came up about my child. I agreed to that too.
(26:01):
And then I was to block him and speak only through my daughter, who was a child.
Am I wrong for having him as a close friend when it was in a appropriate? That's her first question.
I don't think I have to say this. I think you know the answer. The answer is crystal clear.
(26:24):
You have a child with your ex, and as long as your child is in your life, your ex will probably be in your life too, at least until your child 18.
And I mean, typically, and because of that, your wife has to accept that that person is in your life and your child is in your life. And that is the entire package. That's my answer.
(26:53):
When she married you, she married that package.
When I married Asha, my wife, her crazy ex-husband and their child, that was the package.
And I was ready to assume that responsibility, if you want to call it that.
I was ready to accept she would be talking to him and she would be arranging things with him for their son.
(27:23):
I had to accept that there was no choice, whether I liked it or not.
And whether I liked it or not, I didn't give her a hard time. I didn't say anything.
She already had a hard enough time to deal with him.
And I mean, those were my words, crazy ex-husband.
She had a very challenging marriage with him.
(27:45):
And so I know that their relationship was over, gone. I felt no threat.
And it sounds like your wife feels a threat, not because of you or not because of him, but because of her own insecurities.
Or if she feels a threat because of you, it's because she doesn't trust you.
(28:07):
I mean, I've talked about jealousy on the Overwhelmed Brain, my other podcast, and I've learned that jealousy is all about trust.
Because if you trusted the person 100%, if you trusted someone 100%, you would know for a fact that there would be no reason
to fear them leaving or them finding someone else. Jealousy is all about trust.
(28:32):
I know there's insecurities and other things that are mixed in there.
But again, if it came down to it, if you trust someone 100%, there would be no reason to be jealous, because you would trust them.
If she doesn't trust you, then that's on her and she would have to either trust you or not, but she has to deal with that.
(28:59):
So that's my answer to your first question.
And it's not something I know that's going to be easy to talk to her about because she has insecurities that she has to deal
with and trust issues that she has to deal with.
And if she doesn't deal with those things, you're going to suffer. You're going to suffer.
If I was jealous about my wife's friend or my wife's ex, she would say, you'll have to get over it.
(29:26):
She would tell me that you'll have to get over it because there's nothing going on.
And if you believe there's something going on, there's nothing I can do about it. Sorry.
And if I was whining and insecure and said, yeah, but you know, what if he wants to take you away?
And what if he wants you back?
(29:46):
She would say, you really think that's going to happen?
You really think that I spent the last 10 years with you and I suddenly want my ex-husband back? It doesn't make any sense. And she would be right. It doesn't make any sense. Why am I bringing it up? It doesn't make any sense.
So she would say, sorry, that's on you.
You'll have to figure that stuff out.
If you can't trust me after all this time, I don't know what to say.
(30:11):
And her doing that would actually point the spotlight back on me.
So I have to deal with it, which is what should happen.
Unless there's a real reason to be jealous.
Like she'd been unfaithful before, but when there's no reason, then there's no reason unless there is.
And if there is, then it still comes back to me.
(30:31):
Like if I had a reason not to I now have to make a decision.
If I want to be with somebody that I can't trust, or I could stick around and give her a hard time all the time, which makes both of us miserable.
I'm not saying this is easy to do.
I'm not saying you can solve this problem by saying, Hey, that's on you.
(30:53):
I'm just giving you an example of what somebody who is more secure in the relationship might say.
And if you have somebody who's secure or both people who are secure in a relationship, then things like this, of course, won't
come up, but it does come down to trust.
And, um, that's my, I don't know if you'd call that an answer to this person, but that's my perspective regarding this first comment or question that she had.
(31:19):
So she goes on to say a few other things.
I'm not going to read them all here, but most of her message was about her wife, not liking a person in her life or having
that person as a friend or an ex and slowly isolating her from those people. Isolation is emotionally abusive.
(31:42):
When you systematically say, you can't see that person anymore.
And I don't want you talking to that person anymore or that family member or that ex or that friend.
When you do that, or when somebody does that to you, it's called isolation.
It's when somebody slowly removes other people from your life or remove you from them.
(32:08):
Sometimes that involves moving away from those people.
Like they take you with them to a place that you have no friends or family.
And now you are isolated from everyone else. Mainly.
So there is less influence in your life, the less influence in your life, the less chance that the controlling abusive partner or person will be discovered.
(32:34):
And the less chance they are discovered, the longer they get to keep their power over you.
Now, some people aren't doing this consciously.
Some people just have so much insecurity that they don't want other people in that person's life.
If I was so insecure that I didn't want my wife to have friends, that would make sense that I would do something like that.
(32:59):
It wouldn't necessarily be a conscious choice to isolate her, but it would be me trying to make my life more comfortable.
So I don't have to think about other people being a threat.
It all has to do with my dysfunctional insecurities that I haven't addressed, that I need to work on if that were the case.
(33:24):
So in this person's case, you are being isolated from friends and family and exes and having to do with trust, having to do with insecurities.
And if you don't address that and say, look, if you don't trust me, there's nothing I can do or say about it. You just have to.
And if you can't, then I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you, but these are my friends.
(33:50):
And that's only if you feel safe enough to say that if that person's dangerous, you know, violent, you probably don't want
to get into that conversation, you know, pick your battles wisely.
But it really does come down to when somebody gets into a relationship with you, or you get into a relationship with them, you are getting the whole package. I can't stress it enough.
(34:11):
When Asha decided to connect with me and be in a relationship with me, she had to accept my family members as a part of me.
Doesn't mean she has to like them.
Doesn't mean she has to accept them in her life.
She just has to accept them in my life.
Unfortunately, if she doesn't like them, and I'm a part of her life, then they're going to be a part of her life as well.
(34:37):
So it is a lot easier if she can at least tolerate them, at least get along with them, and even better, love them, include them in her life. That would be fantastic.
But it's not required, but it's a lot easier.
Just like there are members of her family that I could choose to accept or not accept, but choosing not to accept them only makes my life more difficult.
(35:02):
So I would rather treat them as family as much as possible, unless they're completely crazy or psycho or dysfunctional, like
I don't plan on being friends with her ex, even though he has been kind and treated me with decency.
But I have no reason to have him in my life.
I have no reason to call him.
But if he's around, I'm certainly going to treat him with respect and kindness and trust that my wife is making the right
(35:29):
decisions regarding any conversations that she has with him, because I trust her.
And if I'm insecure about it, I need to go deal with that on my own.
I need to deal with that myself.
My wife comes with that package, her son, her ex, her other exes, her male friends, her female friends, everyone in her life
(35:52):
that she chooses to have in her life. I look at it this way.
I look at it as I trust her to choose wisely.
I trust her to make friends that make sense.
I trust her to have exes as friends because she doesn't want to have them as partners anymore.
(36:16):
The past is the past, so I can trust her now.
If I didn't trust her in all those areas of life, then I wouldn't want to be with her because I wouldn't want to feel insecure
in my own relationship with, especially with somebody I married, for the rest of my life.
If I felt that insecure, I need to deal with it.
(36:40):
Again, if there was a reason to feel insecure, like she cheated on me or something at one time and it was really bothering
me, I would have to a conversation or a thousand conversations with her until I felt comfortable, until I trusted her again.
But if I couldn't ever reach that point of trust, I'm not going to put her through my inability to trust.
(37:05):
I'm not going to put her through my own insecurities.
I'm not going to make her responsible for my own insecurities.
I'm going to address them in myself and even say, hey, look, I love you, but I can't trust you, so I'm leaving.
Even though that sounds cold, that sounds heartless, why would I want to torture her?
(37:25):
I'm exaggerating, but why would I want to put her through that?
I mean, it could be torture to her if I always bothered her about that.
Why would I want to put her through my inability to trust her? That's how I see it. You might disagree.
You might have a different perspective on that.
You might have a better perspective on that, but I don't think it's fair to put anyone through my own inability to trust someone
(37:53):
that I'm supposed to be with for the rest of my life. I don't think it's fair.
So I have developed a philosophy that if I have a problem with her, it's my problem, not hers. Period. That's it.
If I have a problem with her, I have to deal with it inside of me, not try to change or control her or anything like that, because that's the old me.
(38:17):
I never want to be that person again.
I've learned that if I have a problem with somebody else, I'm going to deal with it inside of me.
That means I have to ask myself, well, am I okay with this?
Is this a violation of my values or my boundaries?
And if I'm not okay with it, am I going to make her suffer with my inability to not be okay with it?
(38:42):
That doesn't mean I'm not going to have a conversation or express myself.
I'm not going to not have a conversation.
I'm not going to not express myself.
I'm going to say, hey, I'm having a challenge here. Let's talk about it.
And hopefully we can get somewhere with it.
Hopefully she can put my mind at ease or something like that.
But I'm not going to stay with somebody that I will have a problem with continually because that just makes the relationship miserable for both of us.
(39:13):
I want to thank that person who wrote to me and I hope what I talked about today is helpful to you.
And, um, I wish you much strength and healing through this.
And I hope you're able to get through this unscathed and maybe even help each other heal through this.
I'm not sure what that involves or what that entails for both of you.
(39:33):
But, um, when it comes down to it, when the other person is continually blaming you and continuing, continually calling you
bad names and whatever they're doing, it's time to go inward and ask yourself, is this something I want to deal with for the rest of my life?
Is this something that is violating my boundaries, violating my values? Is this ever going to change?
(39:56):
You may not have the answers to some of these questions, but hopefully you have some answers.
And, um, when they won't change and they keep pointing the finger and they keep isolating you from friends and family, and
you feel smaller and smaller when you're with them instead of larger than life and lifted up and happy, you might want to
(40:22):
evaluate where you are and where this relationship is going.
And, um, just seriously think about if you want this for the rest of your life.
And if not, it's time to tackle it. It's time to bring it up.
And if you can't bring it up because they're violent or scary, it may be time to make a, an even bigger decision for yourself. Again, I hope this is helpful.
(40:43):
Thank you for listening and share this with others who Love and Abuse is the official podcast of The Mean Workbook, an assessment and healing guide for difficult relationships.
The workbook contains a 200 point assessment to tell you exactly what's causing you to leave so many interactions feeling bad. Gain clarity on your relationship today. Visit loveandabuse.com for more information.
(41:04):
And if you've discovered that you are doing hurtful behaviors to someone that you care about, and you want to change that
about yourself, sign up for the only program that walks you through the entire process of healing from emotionally abusive.
It has changed thousands of lives and relationships and can change yours too.
Visit healedbeing.com to start with your free lessons right away.
(41:25):
And if you're looking for a safer way to listen to this show where all the titles to the episodes are changed, click on the
safe listening button over on the podcast page at loveandabuse.com.
This show exists to remind you that you are not alone and you're not going crazy.
You are worthy of respect, kindness, and love, and you deserve to be accepted exactly as you are. Stay strong. We'll talk again soon.
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