May 13, 2025 • 22 mins
In this special episode of Love, Discovery and Dim Sum, hosts Larissa Lam and Only Won aka Baldwin Chiu dive into a compelling review of the box office hit film Sinners, set in the 1930s Mississippi Delta. They explore how the film portrays the story of Chinese American families living in the segregated South during Jim Crow—a narrative that closely mirrors their own family history, as seen in their award-winning documentary Far East Deep South. Larissa and Baldwin discuss the historical accuracy of Sinners, the cultural and racial dynamics of Chinese grocers in the Deep South, and how this film helps shine a light on the forgotten legacy of Chinese immigrants in Mississippi. If you’re a fan of hidden history, Asian American stories, or powerful film reviews with cultural insight, this episode is a must-listen.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I discovered a Discover Aladyn. Hey everyone, it's Larisa.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Lamb and only one and.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the Love Discovery.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Jim sum podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome, Welcome. We're trying a little bit of a different format.
We're coming to you via video as well as on
our audio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Also because we are in different locations, but we still
wanted to come to you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
That's right, and so uh, we are actually going to
be taking a break from our series that we've been
doing on Healing and Loss to discuss the number one
movie Sinners. Now, don't worry, we will come back and
discuss the loss of Dei that we were teasing in
our last episode, but it is a loss. But since
(00:53):
it's Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month API a n
HPIA the various different monikers that this month holds for
our community, we are going to be sharing more about
the history of the Mississippi Delta, Chinese which is the
subject of course of our documentary Far East, Deep South,
(01:15):
and your family history.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Right, that's right. And you're probably wondering why are we
going to be talking about the movie Sinners during AAPI months.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
And if you haven't seen the movie, this is the
number one movie in the box office for two weeks
in a row. And it is directed by Ryan Coogler,
who directed Black Panther and Creed, among many other films.
Stars Michael B. Jordan as twins, so it's like starring
Michael B. Jordan and starring Michael B. Jordan. Did I
hope he got paid twice?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You know, because he had to doubt it? I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
But it also features some other actors such as del
Roy Lindo, who I thought was fantastic and stole a
lot of the scenes. And someone we just met recently,
Omar Benson Miller.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it was so fun to meet him just a
few days ago. By the way, quick side note, me
and Ryan Coogler both went to Sacramento State University, so hey.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But the reason we're talking about centers that it also
stars a few Asian American actors.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Legion specifically Chinese American.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
They're playing Chinese Americans in the film, and in the
Mississippi Delta they're playing store owners, which is very accurate
to that time period. And the other thing is it's
set in nineteen thirty two. They're very specific about the
date because the date plays a very significant role and
a lot of the events happen over the course of
the day. And it's in Clarksdale, Mississippi, which is a
(02:42):
place that we have frequented quite a bit in the
Mississippi Delta, and so we are like super excited.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
To discuss this.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And this is really kind of the first of a
series that we're going to be starting as well of
doing different movie reviews or TV reviews for shows that
we find have his good host value, especially from an
Asian American perspective. So, without further ado, let's dive into
this film centers. I will say though, if you're not
familiar with the plot, it's about twin brothers who are
(03:13):
African American. They return home from having been in Chicago
two Clocksdale, Mississippi, and they encounter some evil lurking. That's
kind of the log line I'm paraphrasing the log line.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Are we allowed to say what kind of legal? Well,
what type of evil can we say? That? Is it?
Is it known?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think it's been out long enough that you know,
people may have heard there's vampires that factor into this.
So that's not like a huge, huge spoiler, right, but
it is a horror film.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, it is a horror film, but it's it's I
think it's cornine kind of like I would like to say.
It's a horror film, uh used to disguise actually a
history lesson about Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And a racial allegory. Kind in the same way that
Get Out, which I thought was a fabulous movie too,
was about again some veiled racial themes, and so it
kind of carries that tradition. But this one is definitely
much more uh like I guess gory in a sense.
(04:18):
I mean, it's not as gory as some other slasher films,
but certainly there is an element of no vampires, so.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And what do they like to do?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There might be some blood involved, so only one they.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Don't They don't. They don't talk like that though they
don't talk. Yeah, these vampires do not talk like a
count on three. They don't. They do not sound like
that in this movie, Thank goodness.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Think there's a there's a y'all at the end of
their sentences. Y'all vampires y'all.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah. I mean, obviously I love the movie in the sense.
The specific part of the movie that I really loved
was that they included the Chinese Mississippians, and I was
just so fascinated that they would actually include that. And
then I learned that one of our new friends, Dolly Lee,
was their consultant. And I just love the fact that
(05:18):
they said, Hey, we're gonna use this short little blurb
that Dolly had created to really educate the entire cast
and crew about the Chinese and Mississippi. And they did.
They studied the documentary, they studied even our film. We've
heard other people from the cast that say like, hey,
(05:39):
we were interested in your film. We saw it too,
And those cast members that wanted to dive deeper into
what life was like between Black and Chinese. They use
our film, they used other films, they used other documentaries,
They researched, and they really did do their due diligence
to try to get it right about the Chinese Mississippi.
(05:59):
And it wasn't just a trope, it wasn't a it
wasn't just to throw Chinese people in there just for
the sake of diversity. Now. They did it as much
as they could for historical accuracy, and I really appreciated that.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, I think that was something I was very impressed with,
is that they also didn't over explain. You know, I
think a lot of times in film the saying goes
is like you want to show, not tell, And it
was just kind of natural. You know, people were there,
the Chinese store owners were there. They were helping them
(06:34):
out with their business. Without giving too much away for
the film, the two twin brothers that Michael B. Jordan
plays goes and has to ask for some help and
shopping for some items, which again would be realistic because
he wouldn't have been able to go to, say a
white store, and a lot of the grocery store owners
(06:55):
happened to have not just groceries, but they had all
these random items, right like we heard from a lot
of the members of the black and the Chinese community.
I mean they sold rakes, they sold you know, all
sorts of tools, they sold notions, and basically were like
a little bit of a general store, not just a
grocery store, in a lot of the neighborhoods. And so
(07:16):
I think that was very much accurate to the time,
and that nineteen thirties period is exactly when your grandfather
and great grandfather were in Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Because if we go even further, I mean the Chinese
in Mississippi were actually sharecroppers, and that is not in
the film because this would be post sharecropping days.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So that's why, well you still had I mean, at
least for the Chinese, for the.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Chinese, for the Chinese right, for the Chinese were no
longer sharecropping by nineteen thirty two. So they actually depicted
the Chinese very accurately historically, because even though the history
goes even farther back, what they were doing was not
the same as what they were doing in the late
eighteen hundreds. So I really appreciate that as well. And
(08:01):
it actually I felt like it allowed relationships between all
the characters to be a little more smooth blend. They
blended easier, It was more believable, it was more realistic,
and it made for the relationships between both the Black
and the Chinese to be really really really natural. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I was just going to use the word organic because again,
like they didn't like over explain anybody, right, like.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
They just there, they were there.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, Yeah, Like it wasn't something where like oh you're Chinese,
Oh what's your heritage and background? And like oh do
you you know, do celebrate Chinese New Year?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I mean, like, you know, it wasn't like this big.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Exposition about who they are and like where they came from.
It's like they have just existed in that space. They
were speaking with a Southern accent. They weren't speaking with
a Chinese accent, which again I appreciated, so that they
weren't depicted as new immigrants they were. They were depicted
as people who had there and had just been part
of the community.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I love how they were introduced because the first thing
that they introduced was basically they they they gave each
other a hug, they had a little bit of banter,
and then all of a sudden, I was like, hey, yeah,
it's obvious that they've known each other for a long time.
This was not a new relationship. And I thought that
just made things, like you said, organic, It made it
seem like it was normal.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
One of the things that you know, I was thinking
about when I was watching the movie and even reflecting
on after the fact, was you know this idea that
you know, your great grandfather Charles J. Lou You know,
we know based on documents. I mean, he was in Pace,
Mississippi by like the early nineteen hundreds and in the
(09:44):
late eighteen hundreds, he had actually gone down to Louisiana
and Memphis and other parts of cities in Mississippi. So
you know, by the nineteen thirties he was already ingrained
in the community, right, And your grandfather came over in
nineteen ninety, nineteen nineteen to join your grand your great
grandfather helping to work in the store. And so you know,
(10:08):
we've had many, many conversations with our friends in Mississippi,
And I was just rewatching an interview that we're actually
going to be reposting that we did with our cast
with a lot of our members of our Chinese, our
black community, and our one white.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Girl from the.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Archives are Archives Historian an Archive Assembly Jones, where we
had this really lovely conversation that in many sets echoes
some of those those themes and that relationships that we
see in sinners, which I know a lot of people
were skeptical like that didn't happen because sadly, our history books,
(10:45):
what we have been taught in school has been absent
of this history. I mean, we've really been the ones
who have gone out to document it and seek it out.
And and yes, people have been documenting the Chinese and
the Mississippi Delta. But a lot of the a lot
of the world in the scholarship with that has been
done by predominantly white historians, and a lot of times
(11:05):
they've only focused on the Chinese community and they haven't
actually included the African American oral histories and stories with it.
And so, you know, really really grateful that we were
given the opportunity and continue to have conversations with those
in the African American community who have corroborated a lot
(11:27):
of the stories well that they've heard, they've experienced, some
of the older ones who have experienced themselves, but also
that they've heard from their grandparents and great grandparents. In fact,
I remember Cheyenne Woodruff who's in our film. She's an
African American woman who grew up in Pace, Mississippi, and
she was recounting and granted this is actually even a
(11:47):
few decades later, after the nineteen thirties, because she grew
up in like the fifties, and she was saying how
she would just walk into the Chinese grocery store it
was then the dun family who bought the store from
your your your family, and she said like that she
would just go in and like if she needed to
get things, she would just get things and they would
just kind of like put it on credit and you know,
(12:08):
they'd be like okay, I need this, and she would
just be able to grab whatever it is and then like, oh, hey,
well'll pay you back later. I'm like okay, and then
they just write it down. It was like no no
interest borrow stuff. I mean, so that I thought was
very true to what we've heard from people where there
was a coming and going in a lot of these
Chinese stores of the African American community, and especially this
(12:28):
idea of just bartering or credit or loaning loaning things
to people like that was just very very common. Well,
what did you also think about some of the overarching
themes about race and the allegory that it was because
it's not just a slasher vampire film, it really had
some deeper social messages in it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah. I think one of the things that I appreciated
in the film was the difficulties that the black community
had in make purchases and being believable because ultimately this
was not a movie about just Chinese and black, it
was a predominantly black history. Most of the movie is
mostly about black history in Mississippi during that timeframe, and
(13:13):
yes we were a part of it. So I think
some of the more intricate parts of the movie that
I thought was really fascinating was the relationship between how somebody,
even though they were now successful, had money and came
from another part of America that was like Chicago that
(13:36):
they're now in bringing in wealth, and they can bring
that same money down to Mississippi and for some reason
that money is questioned, right especially by people that they
want to buy from. You still got to kind of
watch They still needed to watch out for for if
they were going to get ripped off. Even if they
were willing to pay that money. Are they still getting
(13:58):
ripped off even though there was a emit there is
there and and it dives into that whole part where
it's like they you think that they made an agreement,
and I don't want to give anything away if you
haven't seen it, but the the worry about trust is
still there even though a contract or a deal was made.
Does that make any sense? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And that and then you're referring that specifically to the
black and the white community, you know, like the dynamics
the white dynamic with the black community, and and really
the white power structure that was in place was very
ominous and very again true to that true to those
times as we've heard and from from other people, uh
(14:40):
that you know, unfortunately, the white dominant society controlled the land,
the property, the rules you know, of society in Mississippi
and in much of the country and especially the segregated South,
and and in the movie they were they were referencing
it's like, you know, even in a major city in
the North, they still weren't equal, right, Like people of
(15:05):
color were not in charge, they were not the ones
dictating the rules of society at that time.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, I think this is a especially a time in
our society right now where I know we were supposed
to talk about DEEI and stuff like that too, right,
I mean, it's one of those things where diversity is
now looked upon as undesirable. Yet diversity has always been
a part of our American history. So when we're talking
(15:34):
about the South, if we're not and we're talking about
specifically in Mississippi, how can we tell that story without
including unfortunately, even the harsh stories that involve black and
Asian and white and some of the whites were not
you know, oh that is one of the things that
you know that's brought up in centers also is that
(15:55):
they were Irish whites in the film. And they also
one point, we're not considered part of the majority of
American society. And so now you have all three colors,
not just three colors. But I mean, I loved how
they actually incorporated the Native Indigenous people into the film
as well. And we never hear about Native Indigenous in
(16:19):
the South, right, but they definitely were there. So now
you have a very diverse group of people reflected in
this movie during a time when diversity is frowned upon.
I just I think it's I think it's an amazing
time to actually show the film.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
If anything, if I was going to criticize certain things
about the movie, I actually wanted to see more of
the indigenous characters and learning more about that. But again,
the fact that they were in there, I was very
appreciated of that because it did show that there were
multi faceted aspects and multicultural because normally the South is
talked about in a binary right, it's only black and white.
(16:58):
How we're taught about it in the school, how we've
normally been seeing it, you know, in a film, reflected
in television and other things. And so this is why
I think this film is so significant in popular culture,
because it's opening the doors and opening the eyes of people,
even if people are skeptical to go, like wait, what
like what happened in Mississippi in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Well, there's only I was just gonna say, there's only
one thing that I wish happened in the film that
didn't happen was that in the club they should have
served dim sum. I mean, you had, you had two
Chinese people in there. They didn't serve any dim sum
in the bar. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's maybe that's a sequel for a video about nineteen
thirties dim Sum. They have to watch your music video
dim Sum.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, you know dim sums always appropriate. It is.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But I will give this warning to the audience if
you haven't seen the movie. It is a rated R,
and it is a you know, it is a hard
R because of some of the violence, some of the
adult themes, the language. Is not a family friendly film.
So I definitely do not recommend taking young children to
go see this or anyone that is of the feint
of heart, and you know, I understand if you're not
(18:10):
a horror type of person, which I'm actually not.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
I had to look away on a couple of the
bloodier scenes, But I did appreciate the film for its messaging.
I did appreciate it from its creativity because again, it
was an original script, which we don't see a lot of.
It's not based on an existing ip, it's not based
on an existing you know, superhero series or anything, even
(18:36):
though you had directed someone who directed Black Panther in it.
So I definitely hope there are more stories that can
be in different genres that aren't like the serious, you know,
sad like drama, that can actually instigate conversation and and
(19:00):
encouraging people to dive more into the histories that they
don't know. And we've definitely seen an uptake and people
asking us about our movie. Uh, you know, like we
tell people all the time, it's like, we're not making
this up. Ryan Kougler is not making this stuff up.
Like this is based on history. It's based on real
(19:20):
people and real facts. I'll give you the last word.
What what would you want people to take away from
the movie, Senters.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I think you know, go into it with an open mind,
don't don't prejudge it. I think there's a lot of
people pre judging it just based on even the title itself,
or based on just their their their like or dislike
for a certain type of genre. I would say, go
into it, watch and have an open mind with it,
and let let the creativity kind of make you think
(19:51):
a little bit, allow the subtext to be like hmm,
make make you a little bit and uncuncomfortable, but not
so uncomfortable that you block out the film. I think
that's one of the danger is is when you're uncomfortable,
you want to block out all the other nuances and
the intricacies of the film. But I really commend the
writing on this film. There's a lot of things that
(20:11):
made me think things that I wasn't really quite aware
of that I'm glad I'm aware of now too, and
just even a better understanding of myself because now I
understand another community group a little bit more too.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And I would say that the direction, in terms of
building the suspense, I really appreciated that it was very thoughtful. Again,
it does make you think, it doesn't explain everything out
there for you, so It is kind of like a
after you leave the movie theater, you might need some
time to process it. And if you go see it,
(20:45):
I will highly encourage you to make sure you stay
till the end. Don't be one of those people who
get you and leaves during the credits, because there's some
mid credits and an end credit scene that I think
puts a really nice button. In fact, I read an
interview with Ryan Coogler who actually said the very very
end of the film after the credits is the key
kind of to the whole film, and so make stay
(21:09):
to the very very very end. We have so much
more that we want to discuss regarding the history of
the Mississippi Delta Chinese. If you haven't seen our film yet,
Far East, Deep South, it is available to watch for
free on multiple platforms. It is on to B, it
is on Canopy. It is available to watch for free
for a limited time on PBS or if you have
PBS Passport you can watch it there, and if you
(21:31):
have subscription to Exfinity, you can also watch it on Exfinity.
We are going to continue to do more videos, more
podcasts breaking down different aspects of the history of the
Mississippi Delta Chinese, and we'll also get back to our
conversation about dealing with healing and loss, especially in the
wake of the loss of Dei. But we're grateful that
(21:53):
you are here and thank you for listening and watching
our Love Discovery and dim Sum podcast I Can't even do.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Finally, Fat was mighty Fa
I discovered a Discover Aladyn. Hey everyone, it's Larisa.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Lamb and only one and.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the Love Discovery.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Jim sum podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome, Welcome. We're trying a little bit of a different format.
We're coming to you via video as well as on
our audio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Also because we are in different locations, but we still
wanted to come to you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
That's right, and so uh, we are actually going to
be taking a break from our series that we've been
doing on Healing and Loss to discuss the number one
movie Sinners. Now, don't worry, we will come back and
discuss the loss of Dei that we were teasing in
our last episode, but it is a loss. But since
(00:53):
it's Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month API a n
HPIA the various different monikers that this month holds for
our community, we are going to be sharing more about
the history of the Mississippi Delta, Chinese which is the
subject of course of our documentary Far East, Deep South,
(01:15):
and your family history.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Right, that's right. And you're probably wondering why are we
going to be talking about the movie Sinners during AAPI months.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
And if you haven't seen the movie, this is the
number one movie in the box office for two weeks
in a row. And it is directed by Ryan Coogler,
who directed Black Panther and Creed, among many other films.
Stars Michael B. Jordan as twins, so it's like starring
Michael B. Jordan and starring Michael B. Jordan. Did I
hope he got paid twice?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
You know, because he had to doubt it? I doubt it.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
But it also features some other actors such as del
Roy Lindo, who I thought was fantastic and stole a
lot of the scenes. And someone we just met recently,
Omar Benson Miller.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, it was so fun to meet him just a
few days ago. By the way, quick side note, me
and Ryan Coogler both went to Sacramento State University, so hey.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But the reason we're talking about centers that it also
stars a few Asian American actors.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Legion specifically Chinese American.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
They're playing Chinese Americans in the film, and in the
Mississippi Delta they're playing store owners, which is very accurate
to that time period. And the other thing is it's
set in nineteen thirty two. They're very specific about the
date because the date plays a very significant role and
a lot of the events happen over the course of
the day. And it's in Clarksdale, Mississippi, which is a
(02:42):
place that we have frequented quite a bit in the
Mississippi Delta, and so we are like super excited.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
To discuss this.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
And this is really kind of the first of a
series that we're going to be starting as well of
doing different movie reviews or TV reviews for shows that
we find have his good host value, especially from an
Asian American perspective. So, without further ado, let's dive into
this film centers. I will say though, if you're not
familiar with the plot, it's about twin brothers who are
(03:13):
African American. They return home from having been in Chicago
two Clocksdale, Mississippi, and they encounter some evil lurking. That's
kind of the log line I'm paraphrasing the log line.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Are we allowed to say what kind of legal? Well,
what type of evil can we say? That? Is it?
Is it known?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think it's been out long enough that you know,
people may have heard there's vampires that factor into this.
So that's not like a huge, huge spoiler, right, but
it is a horror film.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes, it is a horror film, but it's it's I
think it's cornine kind of like I would like to say.
It's a horror film, uh used to disguise actually a
history lesson about Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And a racial allegory. Kind in the same way that
Get Out, which I thought was a fabulous movie too,
was about again some veiled racial themes, and so it
kind of carries that tradition. But this one is definitely
much more uh like I guess gory in a sense.
(04:18):
I mean, it's not as gory as some other slasher films,
but certainly there is an element of no vampires, so.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
And what do they like to do?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There might be some blood involved, so only one they.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Don't They don't. They don't talk like that though they
don't talk. Yeah, these vampires do not talk like a
count on three. They don't. They do not sound like
that in this movie, Thank goodness.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Think there's a there's a y'all at the end of
their sentences. Y'all vampires y'all.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah. I mean, obviously I love the movie in the sense.
The specific part of the movie that I really loved
was that they included the Chinese Mississippians, and I was
just so fascinated that they would actually include that. And
then I learned that one of our new friends, Dolly Lee,
was their consultant. And I just love the fact that
(05:18):
they said, Hey, we're gonna use this short little blurb
that Dolly had created to really educate the entire cast
and crew about the Chinese and Mississippi. And they did.
They studied the documentary, they studied even our film. We've
heard other people from the cast that say like, hey,
(05:39):
we were interested in your film. We saw it too,
And those cast members that wanted to dive deeper into
what life was like between Black and Chinese. They use
our film, they used other films, they used other documentaries,
They researched, and they really did do their due diligence
to try to get it right about the Chinese Mississippi.
(05:59):
And it wasn't just a trope, it wasn't a it
wasn't just to throw Chinese people in there just for
the sake of diversity. Now. They did it as much
as they could for historical accuracy, and I really appreciated that.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, I think that was something I was very impressed with,
is that they also didn't over explain. You know, I
think a lot of times in film the saying goes
is like you want to show, not tell, And it
was just kind of natural. You know, people were there,
the Chinese store owners were there. They were helping them
(06:34):
out with their business. Without giving too much away for
the film, the two twin brothers that Michael B. Jordan
plays goes and has to ask for some help and
shopping for some items, which again would be realistic because
he wouldn't have been able to go to, say a
white store, and a lot of the grocery store owners
(06:55):
happened to have not just groceries, but they had all
these random items, right like we heard from a lot
of the members of the black and the Chinese community.
I mean they sold rakes, they sold you know, all
sorts of tools, they sold notions, and basically were like
a little bit of a general store, not just a
grocery store, in a lot of the neighborhoods. And so
(07:16):
I think that was very much accurate to the time,
and that nineteen thirties period is exactly when your grandfather
and great grandfather were in Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Because if we go even further, I mean the Chinese
in Mississippi were actually sharecroppers, and that is not in
the film because this would be post sharecropping days.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So that's why, well you still had I mean, at
least for the Chinese, for the.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Chinese, for the Chinese right, for the Chinese were no
longer sharecropping by nineteen thirty two. So they actually depicted
the Chinese very accurately historically, because even though the history
goes even farther back, what they were doing was not
the same as what they were doing in the late
eighteen hundreds. So I really appreciate that as well. And
(08:01):
it actually I felt like it allowed relationships between all
the characters to be a little more smooth blend. They
blended easier, It was more believable, it was more realistic,
and it made for the relationships between both the Black
and the Chinese to be really really really natural. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I was just going to use the word organic because again,
like they didn't like over explain anybody, right, like.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
They just there, they were there.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, Yeah, Like it wasn't something where like oh you're Chinese,
Oh what's your heritage and background? And like oh do
you you know, do celebrate Chinese New Year?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I mean, like, you know, it wasn't like this big.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Exposition about who they are and like where they came from.
It's like they have just existed in that space. They
were speaking with a Southern accent. They weren't speaking with
a Chinese accent, which again I appreciated, so that they
weren't depicted as new immigrants they were. They were depicted
as people who had there and had just been part
of the community.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I love how they were introduced because the first thing
that they introduced was basically they they they gave each
other a hug, they had a little bit of banter,
and then all of a sudden, I was like, hey, yeah,
it's obvious that they've known each other for a long time.
This was not a new relationship. And I thought that
just made things, like you said, organic, It made it
seem like it was normal.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
One of the things that you know, I was thinking
about when I was watching the movie and even reflecting
on after the fact, was you know this idea that
you know, your great grandfather Charles J. Lou You know,
we know based on documents. I mean, he was in Pace,
Mississippi by like the early nineteen hundreds and in the
(09:44):
late eighteen hundreds, he had actually gone down to Louisiana
and Memphis and other parts of cities in Mississippi. So
you know, by the nineteen thirties he was already ingrained
in the community, right, And your grandfather came over in
nineteen ninety, nineteen nineteen to join your grand your great
grandfather helping to work in the store. And so you know,
(10:08):
we've had many, many conversations with our friends in Mississippi,
And I was just rewatching an interview that we're actually
going to be reposting that we did with our cast
with a lot of our members of our Chinese, our
black community, and our one white.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Girl from the.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Archives are Archives Historian an Archive Assembly Jones, where we
had this really lovely conversation that in many sets echoes
some of those those themes and that relationships that we
see in sinners, which I know a lot of people
were skeptical like that didn't happen because sadly, our history books,
(10:45):
what we have been taught in school has been absent
of this history. I mean, we've really been the ones
who have gone out to document it and seek it out.
And and yes, people have been documenting the Chinese and
the Mississippi Delta. But a lot of the a lot
of the world in the scholarship with that has been
done by predominantly white historians, and a lot of times
(11:05):
they've only focused on the Chinese community and they haven't
actually included the African American oral histories and stories with it.
And so, you know, really really grateful that we were
given the opportunity and continue to have conversations with those
in the African American community who have corroborated a lot
(11:27):
of the stories well that they've heard, they've experienced, some
of the older ones who have experienced themselves, but also
that they've heard from their grandparents and great grandparents. In fact,
I remember Cheyenne Woodruff who's in our film. She's an
African American woman who grew up in Pace, Mississippi, and
she was recounting and granted this is actually even a
(11:47):
few decades later, after the nineteen thirties, because she grew
up in like the fifties, and she was saying how
she would just walk into the Chinese grocery store it
was then the dun family who bought the store from
your your your family, and she said like that she
would just go in and like if she needed to
get things, she would just get things and they would
just kind of like put it on credit and you know,
(12:08):
they'd be like okay, I need this, and she would
just be able to grab whatever it is and then like, oh, hey,
well'll pay you back later. I'm like okay, and then
they just write it down. It was like no no
interest borrow stuff. I mean, so that I thought was
very true to what we've heard from people where there
was a coming and going in a lot of these
Chinese stores of the African American community, and especially this
(12:28):
idea of just bartering or credit or loaning loaning things
to people like that was just very very common. Well,
what did you also think about some of the overarching
themes about race and the allegory that it was because
it's not just a slasher vampire film, it really had
some deeper social messages in it.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah. I think one of the things that I appreciated
in the film was the difficulties that the black community
had in make purchases and being believable because ultimately this
was not a movie about just Chinese and black, it
was a predominantly black history. Most of the movie is
mostly about black history in Mississippi during that timeframe, and
(13:13):
yes we were a part of it. So I think
some of the more intricate parts of the movie that
I thought was really fascinating was the relationship between how somebody,
even though they were now successful, had money and came
from another part of America that was like Chicago that
(13:36):
they're now in bringing in wealth, and they can bring
that same money down to Mississippi and for some reason
that money is questioned, right especially by people that they
want to buy from. You still got to kind of
watch They still needed to watch out for for if
they were going to get ripped off. Even if they
were willing to pay that money. Are they still getting
(13:58):
ripped off even though there was a emit there is
there and and it dives into that whole part where
it's like they you think that they made an agreement,
and I don't want to give anything away if you
haven't seen it, but the the worry about trust is
still there even though a contract or a deal was made.
Does that make any sense? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And that and then you're referring that specifically to the
black and the white community, you know, like the dynamics
the white dynamic with the black community, and and really
the white power structure that was in place was very
ominous and very again true to that true to those
times as we've heard and from from other people, uh
(14:40):
that you know, unfortunately, the white dominant society controlled the land,
the property, the rules you know, of society in Mississippi
and in much of the country and especially the segregated South,
and and in the movie they were they were referencing
it's like, you know, even in a major city in
the North, they still weren't equal, right, Like people of
(15:05):
color were not in charge, they were not the ones
dictating the rules of society at that time.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, I think this is a especially a time in
our society right now where I know we were supposed
to talk about DEEI and stuff like that too, right,
I mean, it's one of those things where diversity is
now looked upon as undesirable. Yet diversity has always been
a part of our American history. So when we're talking
(15:34):
about the South, if we're not and we're talking about
specifically in Mississippi, how can we tell that story without
including unfortunately, even the harsh stories that involve black and
Asian and white and some of the whites were not
you know, oh that is one of the things that
you know that's brought up in centers also is that
(15:55):
they were Irish whites in the film. And they also
one point, we're not considered part of the majority of
American society. And so now you have all three colors,
not just three colors. But I mean, I loved how
they actually incorporated the Native Indigenous people into the film
as well. And we never hear about Native Indigenous in
(16:19):
the South, right, but they definitely were there. So now
you have a very diverse group of people reflected in
this movie during a time when diversity is frowned upon.
I just I think it's I think it's an amazing
time to actually show the film.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
If anything, if I was going to criticize certain things
about the movie, I actually wanted to see more of
the indigenous characters and learning more about that. But again,
the fact that they were in there, I was very
appreciated of that because it did show that there were
multi faceted aspects and multicultural because normally the South is
talked about in a binary right, it's only black and white.
(16:58):
How we're taught about it in the school, how we've
normally been seeing it, you know, in a film, reflected
in television and other things. And so this is why
I think this film is so significant in popular culture,
because it's opening the doors and opening the eyes of people,
even if people are skeptical to go, like wait, what
like what happened in Mississippi in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Well, there's only I was just gonna say, there's only
one thing that I wish happened in the film that
didn't happen was that in the club they should have
served dim sum. I mean, you had, you had two
Chinese people in there. They didn't serve any dim sum
in the bar. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's maybe that's a sequel for a video about nineteen
thirties dim Sum. They have to watch your music video
dim Sum.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, you know dim sums always appropriate. It is.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But I will give this warning to the audience if
you haven't seen the movie. It is a rated R,
and it is a you know, it is a hard
R because of some of the violence, some of the
adult themes, the language. Is not a family friendly film.
So I definitely do not recommend taking young children to
go see this or anyone that is of the feint
of heart, and you know, I understand if you're not
(18:10):
a horror type of person, which I'm actually not.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
I had to look away on a couple of the
bloodier scenes, But I did appreciate the film for its messaging.
I did appreciate it from its creativity because again, it
was an original script, which we don't see a lot of.
It's not based on an existing ip, it's not based
on an existing you know, superhero series or anything, even
(18:36):
though you had directed someone who directed Black Panther in it.
So I definitely hope there are more stories that can
be in different genres that aren't like the serious, you know,
sad like drama, that can actually instigate conversation and and
(19:00):
encouraging people to dive more into the histories that they
don't know. And we've definitely seen an uptake and people
asking us about our movie. Uh, you know, like we
tell people all the time, it's like, we're not making
this up. Ryan Kougler is not making this stuff up.
Like this is based on history. It's based on real
(19:20):
people and real facts. I'll give you the last word.
What what would you want people to take away from
the movie, Senters.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I think you know, go into it with an open mind,
don't don't prejudge it. I think there's a lot of
people pre judging it just based on even the title itself,
or based on just their their their like or dislike
for a certain type of genre. I would say, go
into it, watch and have an open mind with it,
and let let the creativity kind of make you think
(19:51):
a little bit, allow the subtext to be like hmm,
make make you a little bit and uncuncomfortable, but not
so uncomfortable that you block out the film. I think
that's one of the danger is is when you're uncomfortable,
you want to block out all the other nuances and
the intricacies of the film. But I really commend the
writing on this film. There's a lot of things that
(20:11):
made me think things that I wasn't really quite aware
of that I'm glad I'm aware of now too, and
just even a better understanding of myself because now I
understand another community group a little bit more too.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And I would say that the direction, in terms of
building the suspense, I really appreciated that it was very thoughtful. Again,
it does make you think, it doesn't explain everything out
there for you, so It is kind of like a
after you leave the movie theater, you might need some
time to process it. And if you go see it,
(20:45):
I will highly encourage you to make sure you stay
till the end. Don't be one of those people who
get you and leaves during the credits, because there's some
mid credits and an end credit scene that I think
puts a really nice button. In fact, I read an
interview with Ryan Coogler who actually said the very very
end of the film after the credits is the key
kind of to the whole film, and so make stay
(21:09):
to the very very very end. We have so much
more that we want to discuss regarding the history of
the Mississippi Delta Chinese. If you haven't seen our film yet,
Far East, Deep South, it is available to watch for
free on multiple platforms. It is on to B, it
is on Canopy. It is available to watch for free
for a limited time on PBS or if you have
PBS Passport you can watch it there, and if you
(21:31):
have subscription to Exfinity, you can also watch it on Exfinity.
We are going to continue to do more videos, more
podcasts breaking down different aspects of the history of the
Mississippi Delta Chinese, and we'll also get back to our
conversation about dealing with healing and loss, especially in the
wake of the loss of Dei. But we're grateful that
(21:53):
you are here and thank you for listening and watching
our Love Discovery and dim Sum podcast I Can't even do.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Finally, Fat was mighty Fa
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