Feel, Heal & Let that Sh*t Go with Rachel Kaplan

Are you emotionally potty trained? My guest Rachel Kaplan is a licensed psychotherapist who created an accessible framework for self-care and personal transformation that she calls Emotional Potty Training™ (EPT). In this episode and in her new book Feel, Heal & Let That Sh*t Go, she shares her revolutionary call to action that will teach you precisely how to feel your emotions by moving them through your body as nature intended.

Rachel Kaplan, MA, MFT, is a licensed psychotherapist with a thriving practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Creator and host of the acclaimed podcast Healing Feeling Sh*t Show, she is active on a variety of social media channels and has published multiple features in Common Ground. Kaplan has studied yoga, meditation, and hands-on healing practices in India and Nepal, earned a master’s degree in counseling psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies, and trained in cutting-edge trauma modalities such as EMDR. She divides her time between Oakland and Joshua Tree, California.

In this episode, Rachel discusses:

• Her creative perspective regarding processing emotions
• The trend of thinking about your feelings
• The tragic event that heavily influenced her life
• The limits of traditional psychotherapy
• The importance of feeling your feelings
• How she teaches people how to get in touch with their wounds in order to release their pain
• The importance of taking charge of your healing process
• Her spiritual journey
• What being emotionally resilient looks like
• The benefits of allowing yourself to feel all your feelings
• Why people experience stuck-ness
• Reactive and proactive emotional release
• The fear of allowing yourself to feel 
• The importance of feeling a sense of agency in your emotional life
• The various ways she works with clients
• Her podcast Healing Feeling Sh*t Show

Rachel’s website

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Episode Transcript

Wendy (00:02):
This is Wendy Halley, and you're listening to Lucid Cafe.

(00:31):
Hi there, and welcome back. Ifit's your first time tuning in,
thanks for joining me. Before weget to today's episode, which is
a really good one, are you readyto unlock the secrets of your
inner self? To journey beyondthe ordinary and experience the
extraordinary?
Become Your Own Shaman is a selfpaced experiential introductory

(00:53):
course that gives you thegroundwork to start a personal
shamanic practice. Thefoundation of the course is
based, with permission, on myunderstanding of the indigenous
Hawaiian spiritual world viewthat was shared with me during
the early phase of myapprenticeship. We'll explore
subjects like the nature ofreality, the nature of the self
and how it relates toconsciousness. And you'll learn

(01:16):
the mechanics of how to safelyand easily enter a Shamanic
trance state using sound. Thenwe'll dive into some fundamental
experiential exercisesintroducing you to the Shamanic
realms and 2 of your personalspirit guides.
My goal in creating this coursewas to make it as affordable and
as user friendly as possible. Itincorporates all I've learned

(01:39):
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years, including ways to addressthe common areas where new
practitioners can get a littlestuck. So don't wait any longer.
Take the first step towardbecoming your own shaman today.
Visit lucidpathwellness.com oruse the link in the show notes
to enroll and start your journeytoward deepening your connection

(02:02):
to the unseen world andyourself.
Alright. On with the show. Myguest, Rachel Kaplan, is a
bundle of energy, enthusiasm andcreativity. That is no joke.
She's a licensed psychotherapistand the host of the acclaimed
podcast Healing FeelingShitshow.

(02:25):
Her accessible approach to selfcare and personal
transformation, which she callsemotional potty training or EPT,
is a revolutionary call toaction that will teach you
precisely how to feel youremotions by moving them through
your body as nature intended.Rachel has found that
conceptualizing serious mentalhealth work through the

(02:47):
lighthearted metaphorical lensof EPT resonates with clients
across the board. In her newbook, Feel, Heal and Let That
Shit Go, and in thisconversation, she shares the
time tested practices of her oneof a kind modality in a way
that's easy to relate to. Herstep by step guidance leads to

(03:07):
real world emotional resilience,empowered authenticity, and
stronger relationships. Pleaseenjoy my conversation with
Rachel Kaplan.
Rachel, thank you so much forjoining me.

Rachel (03:21):
It's my pleasure.

Wendy (03:23):
I wanna start out by saying that I loved the
dedication in your book.

Rachel (03:30):
So it's like what it said or that it was a Radiohead
quote or reference?

Wendy (03:34):
Both. That's actually not a very popular Radiohead song so
that you chose it is very cool.

Rachel (03:41):
I have two lines tattooed on my arms dedicated to
all human beings is on my rightarm. My left arm says from that
song, my left arm says, dancingfor your pleasure because that's
like my deepest personal delightof way to engage is to translate
rock stars music through my bodyand my dedication to the web of

(04:01):
life because there's anyway,it's not gonna translate well to
the audio but I have 2 eyeballs.1 is me, 1 is the web of life so
I I love that song.

Wendy (04:10):
I do too. And music also plays a really important role in
my life. So I totally get it.

Rachel (04:16):
And the song is Reckoner by Radiohead if anyone wants to
know.

Wendy (04:19):
Yes. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah. It's a pretty
amazing song.

Rachel (04:23):
Yeah.

Wendy (04:24):
Alright. So let's start out with you have a book out,
Feel, Heal, and Let That ShitGo, your guide to emotional
resilience and lasting selflove. The way you approach this
book is quite creative.

Rachel (04:39):
Thank you.

Wendy (04:40):
Sure sure you've been hearing that. The correlation
between taking a shit andhealing emotional wounds Mhmm.
Didn't get lost on me. Mhmm.It's pretty right there.
Yeah. Would you say?

Rachel (04:52):
Yeah. Yeah. And specifically between taking a
shit and basically, like, theclearest way to understand how
we ideally would relate to ouremotions if if we look at how we
relate to our shit. And thatthey're they're very similar
body based signals thatsomething needs to move through
us. But one of those signals,the rumbling guts sensation,

(05:15):
don't shit in your pants signal,We were taught how to deal with
and the how to move youremotions safely through the
body.
We were not. And most of us,even in the best of situations,
were conditioned out of that.And so we're all desperately
trying to scroll and eat anddrink and smoke and validate and

(05:35):
success our way out of ouremotions and so that means we're
all emotionally constipated andfull of it and it doesn't work
and so I'm just like, hey guys,what if we were to relate to it
this other way?

Wendy (05:48):
In a very direct way.

Rachel (05:50):
Yeah. Yeah. In a in a direct way where you learn how
to allow this the signal, learnhow to read what it's telling
you. And also just there's somuch fun in and I didn't do this
too much in the book because thepublishing industry was like,
oh, honey, we don't talk aboutpoop. And I was like, oh, well,
I I I do.
You know, it was it was a realjourney.

Wendy (06:10):
Well, I can't imagine what they
edited out then because, I mean,you do it's in there.

Rachel (06:15):
It's it's a it's probably we edited out poop
emojis as, like, different andthere was a point where I got on
board with that. Like, I one ofmy favorite endorsements, I
don't know if you've heard ofRoger Kamenetz. He wrote The Jew
and the Lotus and reallybrilliant scholar, writer. He
wrote his endorsement for thebook was, you know, Rachel
Kaplan, da da da da. She's gotthe poop.

(06:36):
And I was like, well, actually,we're not using that metaphor.
Can we not use that? He said,nope. We're using it. So in the
journey of de pooping the book,I also got a little more
cautious about it.
But things like, for instance,if you have to poop twice in one
day, you're not like, oh, God,what's wrong with me? I'm so
weak that I'm pooping more.You're just like, oh, I know

(06:57):
what to do. And we we don'tnecessarily need to know what
food went into that poop. Wejust know that it needs to move.
And I think our world andpartially and this is something
interesting to get into butmaybe not yet even as a
byproduct of the therapy worldor the mindset manifest your
world like there's almost anobsession with like thinking
about our feelings and like wellwhy am I feeling this? And so

(07:20):
you don't need to know why youhave to poop. You just need to
know that you do have to poopand you need to go do the poop
and to and that's the only wayto not have to poop. Right? And
so I think emotions are similarand that the more we just learn
how to in the most skillful way,like, let them do their thing
and not get stuck in our headstrying to analyze them or have a

(07:41):
story or feel bad about needingto have them, just the lighter
and less full of it we are.
So the the metaphor is juststunning.

Wendy (07:49):
It is, actually. If you distill it down, they're both
biological processes like youwere saying. It's like taking a
shit is as normal as having anemotional experience.

Rachel (08:01):
And for most people who were conditioned out of their
feelings, if you imagine notshading for a decade or even 5
years or even a week You wouldbe dead. You'd be dead, but also
like to try to get if you justthink of some more normal
constipation, the bigger themore backlog you have, the more
patience you need, the more youmight need help, like, getting

(08:23):
that movement out. And that'swhat this book is.

Wendy (08:26):
You also get really toxic too.

Rachel (08:29):
Yeah. And that's what we're living in. Yeah.

Wendy (08:31):
Yeah. Exactly. And if you think about that through the
emotional lens, we can getreally toxic with our emotions
too when we're emotionallyconstipated. Yeah. It's it's
quite

Rachel (08:40):
clever. You Yeah. I mean, and there's, you know, I
was like, there was a guy whohad a big viral video about
feelings being like farts. Imean, there are other ways to
equate it. I think poop is thebest, but I've always been
really into poop.
I'm a very good pooper, just soyou know.

Wendy (08:56):
Oh, well, that's good to hear. Yeah. Alright. So I do
wanna come back to what you'dstarted talking about, and that
is how we're typically handlingour emotions. But first, I wanna
touch on a bit of yourbackground and what led you to
write this book to begin with.
I mean, you had pretty tragiccircumstances early in your

(09:19):
life. It seemed to pave the waythat led to, I'm guessing, us
having this conversation and youwriting this book and yeah.

Rachel (09:28):
And that gives me chills. Isn't that amazing that
I can be 30 years out from thatexperience and it gives me
chills just how true that is?

Wendy (09:35):
Do you wanna talk a little bit about that or...?

Rachel (09:38):
Yeah. I'm happy to talk about it. First, before I tell
anything about that story, I'lljust say that I had the run of
the mill wounding that anyonewith human parents will have.
The older generations knew evenless about and had less
permission to feel and knew lessabout how to feel. And any
parent knows it's really hard tokeep a kid alive and tune into

(10:02):
the kids every feeling.
And I'm not even saying that'sthe answer, but so all of us
have a certain degree ofwounding, and I had that also
and had a deep sense of thingsthat were wrong with me by the
before I met this young man andprobably was part of my
attachment to him. But,basically, the first person I
was just wanting to be as closeto as possible was this young

(10:25):
boy who I met probably at 12 anddesigned, a very serious way to
try to make him my boyfriend,which worked. And by 8th grade,
I believe, he was my boyfriend.And halfway through our freshman
year of high school, after avery convoluted way of bringing
me into a fabricated lie, hetook his life. And I was the

(10:49):
cryptic subject of his suicidenote and he was really like my
entire world and I tried to stophim by saying I would kill
myself also And I spent years inthe aftermath of that
annihilation thinking maybe Iwould.
I actually you know, you seemlike a spiritually oriented
person. I heard a voiceinterestingly in the room when

(11:10):
it was confirmed that they foundhis body. I don't talk about
this often, but this voice, veryclear voice was not something
inside my head. It was not him.I don't know what it was, but it
said you will never do this.
And then that was the only timeI heard a voice.

Wendy (11:23):
Okay. That's very clear. Yeah.

Rachel (11:25):
So clear. But, and, you know, they're screaming all this
stuff happening in the room. Mymom's like, my daughter needs
help. I mean, it was just sochaotic, that moment.

Wendy (11:34):
Intense, man.

Rachel (11:35):
But anyway, I I did spend a few years kind of
planning that because I just ithollowed me out. I couldn't
tolerate it as a 14 year old.

Wendy (11:43):
Planning what, taking your own life?

Rachel (11:46):
Planning my death. Yeah. I think lightheartedly. Like, at
least for about a year or so.And then the first time I I was
in another romantic relationshipalmost by accident is really
when I started to see howinjured I was and how I mean, I
was really sarcastic and mental.

(12:06):
I had stopped feeling and anyonewho was outside of my immediate
life was dead to me. I hadreally my attachment when it was
so injured. Right? My my senseof safety and it being safe for
me to like someone was deeplyinjured and through that process
of just I tried to break up withthis partner, I realized, oh,

(12:26):
man. Like and I took mushrooms.
My first time, which was justdark. It was like, I was well, I
mean, it was helpful. There wasa lot of intense stuff going on.
It was right on the heels ofrealizing, wow, I'm injured and
I need to get therapy. But wethought my mom had cancer.
We had just found out my and I'mlike a teenager, but my sister
had friends over, and Ibasically walked through my high

(12:48):
school house just feeling terrorin my bones. And then finally,
at the end of the experience,after just asking people who are
around me to make it stop as Iwas coming down, I sat outside
in my backyard with my sister.This is probably one of our most
precious shared moments and justwept and talked about how we
were like these orbits that weremaybe you sync up with someone's

(13:09):
orbit for a minute, but we'redoomed to be alone. And, I just
got such a deep picture of,like, kind of my reality having
been annihilated like that. Andthen, I started therapy.
And, this therapist, my firsttherapist is fantastic and she
wrote the forward for my book,which I don't think was in the
book by the time you got it.

Wendy (13:28):
No. I don't have the forward in the copy that I have.
Yeah.

Rachel (13:32):
Yeah. It's precious. And actually, a couple years after I
launched my podcast, which isthe first form that this content
came out in, we had a moment ofgetting in touch with each other
and she said, I've been spyingon your life through your
podcast, which is mandatedlistening for patients. Wow. So
my therapist from my highschool, and she's actually I'm

(13:52):
giving a TEDx talk the weekafter the book comes out, which
is in a couple weeks, and she'sflying out to Boston to hear me.
It's really precious. Butanyway, I did very deep work
with her. She was really thefirst person that helped me slow
down and come out of my veryvoracious mind, very fast mind
and start to feel again. And bythe end of my senior year of

(14:13):
high school, I thought I wasfurther along that I was, which
I admit in the book. Of course,it was the next quarter century
of actually healing that wound.
But I was, at that point, knewthat, okay, this is I'm meant to
be a companion for people onthis healing path. And, you
know, the truth is is that thereare plenty of people who are
psychotherapists because it's agreat job. I mean, you get to

(14:33):
sit and talk to people formoney. I mean and for all the
people who their wounding showedup as caretaking their family
members, I mean, there's so manypeople who had hard childhoods
and that's how they decided theywould survive. And so then
having that job is essentially amonetizable version of their
adaptive slash maladaptivestrategy.

(14:55):
Right? So I I will just say andand my editor made me cut the
chapter where I just said, hey.I think the therapeutic industry
sucks right now, and we'rephoning it in and b minusing it.
But they're you know, not alltherapy is created equally. And
some people were lucky enoughthat they didn't get torn up and
shredded and annihilated aschildren.

(15:16):
And bless them. That's great.You know? But if you really if
you did, if you had significanttrauma or if you just are trying
to learn how to be with a painthat feels intolerable to you,
whatever the cause, you want theperson you're sitting with to
have had to have done that andto know because you don't know.
And I will say that the mainhelp I got, and I think I make

(15:38):
this clear in the book, reallycame outside the therapeutic
industry and came and I wouldsay that also it took me
literally 25 years before Ireached a place, and that was a
full decade into being apracticing psychotherapist.
And I was always good at this.But before I actually felt
deeply well and deeply lovableand worthy. And so for me, the

(15:59):
book, the podcast, everythingI've done in the last 8, 9 years
is sharing what made thedifference between me hobbling
around and still kind of feelinglike a worthless piece of shit
inside and me actually havingthis baseline and and what have
I seen of course with 100 ofclient? It's not only me, but
it's like what are the piecesthat are actually required for

(16:20):
someone to heal and not justcompensate? And so that's what
the book is.
It's like, this is the parts youactually really need.

Wendy (16:28):
Right. Okay. Lot there. So

Rachel (16:32):
I warned you. You did.

Wendy (16:34):
Alright. So I'm like, okay. Ticking things off in my
brain, like, let's go back tothis. Let's go back to this.
We'll see how many of them Iactually remember.
But the thing that stands outmost is that and I don't usually
say this publicly as a mentalhealth clinician myself, that
how limited it is, I think, inits effectiveness.

Rachel (16:54):
Mhmm. Yeah.

Wendy (16:55):
And I I remember in graduate school thinking that
there's gotta be something more.Even as I was learning all the
theory and the differenttherapeutic approaches, I was
like, yeah. They're cool, butthere's something more. And then
now close to 30 years in, itstrikes me of of how head

(17:16):
centric psychotherapy is. It'slike it's all Yeah.
Everything that's in yourawareness and then bringing
things out of your unconsciousand into your awareness and
developing beautiful insights.Right? Mhmm. That's why I think
the way I do or I I behave orreact the way I do, the way I
feel, it makes sense now. But itdoesn't necessarily change the

(17:37):
reason why you No.
The way you do, you react theway you do, you feel the way you
do, you will understand it,which is actually can be more
vexing, I think. Yeah.Absolutely. Have all this
insight. It's like nothing to dowith it.
But that's what I find is thatpeople tend to stay in story,
especially people who are doinglonger term counseling.

Rachel (17:57):
Or Freudian psychoanalytic. Yeah. They'll
just report what happened sincethe last session.

Wendy (18:03):
Right. That's there are other ways to to heal, and I
think that's what's really coolis that I think psychotherapy is
wonderful and it's a greatsupport and I think developing
insight is is a cool thing.

Rachel (18:16):
Well, it depends what kind of psychotherapy. I mean,
there it's, you know, there is amore somatic approach at this
point and someone who

Wendy (18:24):
That didn't exist when I was studying.

Rachel (18:26):
Yeah.

Wendy (18:26):
So somatic therapy has so body centric, body centered
therapy has

Rachel (18:31):
Yeah.

Wendy (18:31):
Come into the foreground because of the limitations, I
think.

Rachel (18:34):
Absolutely.

Wendy (18:35):
That's brilliant. And you are also an EMDR practitioner
Mhmm. Which helps people movethrough trauma.

Rachel (18:41):
Yeah.

Wendy (18:41):
And it's not about talking, but it's about
reporting as you're goingthrough the process using the
technique.

Rachel (18:48):
Right. Yeah. I I agree. The narrative often gets in the
way with the healing, which isit's a great thing to look back
at your poop. You know?
Do you need to understandanything about it?

Wendy (19:00):
Yeah. Well, it that's like keeping your shit in a
Yeah. Container and, like,bringing it out every so often
and looking at it and saying,oh, I remember that shit.

Rachel (19:08):
Right. Yeah. I think it there there is something I'll
there's one piece. I think thesecret sauce of, like, how you
actually heal is is somethingthat really goes in the face of
that that I think we'll get to.It's like the crux of of the
journey, but yeah, it's like alot of those stories or a lot of
the ways that people come upwith those stories are to try to

(19:29):
be more compassionate towardthemselves or the therapist
helps them realize what was thebest you could do and it wasn't
your fault and it was yourparents or it was your effort
for this or for that.
And in a way maybe I'll just sayit now. It's like in a way when
we tell ourselves that we'rekinda talking ourselves out of
our deep Great point. Fears andpains. Like if some if some part
of us thinks that we're notenough and we're like, oh, no.

(19:51):
You were always enough, but yourmom this or your dad that or
it's like we're stillessentially saying to that deep
part inside that feels like I'mthe worst or I'm not lovable,
you know, stay in the closet.
You stay away. Like, you'rewrong. And that's whether a
parent was shushing us tellingus we're fine when we were
scared or telling us there'snothing to be afraid of those

(20:12):
are very benevolent ways thatwe're conditioned out of feeling
our feelings when we're littleand of course it becomes much
more can be traumatic or abusivewhen we're taught I'll give you
something to cry about or thatit's not okay to feel a certain
way or that it's not okay toexpress ourselves in a certain
way. So our core wounds that runthe mill attachment wounding

(20:32):
stuff I was saying we all have,they're all these pain parts
that feel like they're aproblem, they somehow make us
less lovable or less acceptable,and they're positive no matter
how bright and shining our livesare, no matter how successful we
are, no matter how much we thinkwe have these other good things
about us, they're positive thateverything else is a cover up

(20:53):
and that like if people knew uswell enough or that deep down
there's something wrong with usand so in order to actually heal
those, and that's what I feellike my life has taught me
really how to do, you can't justgive it an explanation.
You can't just tell it, no, youyou aren't bad. You aren't wrong
because that's more of thatdismissal shit, you know? And so
it's like what I think I'multimately doing is teaching

(21:15):
people a series of skills thatstep I call it becoming. It's
like kind of the crux of it.It's deep in the book, it's deep
in your process because you'renot gonna be able to allow that
feeling to to come through as atruth unless you find the part
of you that feels that unlessyou've cultivated a relationship
with that part of you where ittrusts you enough to show you

(21:36):
how it feels and then you haveto know how to move your your
awareness into the part of youin pain.
But what I will say if someonewasn't gonna listen to this
whole podcast and they werelike, I gotta go. What's the
deal? The deal is until you knowhow to let the wounded part of
you feel its pain as truth likethat yes you do suck you're
still gonna be compensating andthat once you learn how to

(21:59):
skillfully dip into that andfrom a place of identifying with
it which is not what theBuddhist would tell you to do
it's not what most therapiststell you to do but, like,
letting yourself become the partthat's like, yeah. Nobody loves
me. Like, release the pain fromthat vantage point, and then
there's a whole recoveryprocess.
That is the crux that I thinkmakes a difference between

(22:22):
someone who feels lovable andsomeone who is hobbling around.

Wendy (22:25):
That was the very cool thing that was refreshing to see
in your book was that youactually have a much more
shamanic approach to dealingwith emotionality. In that, you
talk about having a relationshipwith your feelings, which is a
much more indigenous perspectivethan our western cultural
worldview. So the idea to makefriends with your anger, your

(22:48):
sadness, your shame, all ofthose things, then you can get
somewhere. Right?

Rachel (22:54):
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And and this is having a moment, you
know, a lot of people aretalking about inner child
healing. So it's like parts workis part of the conversation.
The first phase of my approachis about parts work and so
luckily that's not totally newand that's good because it's
essential to healing as you Butit is new

Wendy (23:13):
in the psychotherapy world. IFS Yeah. Internal family
systems thing. I never studiedit but

Rachel (23:19):
I didn't either. But I had parts where my foundation
was Gestalt. Parts works allover Gestalt, and that's been
around at least since, like, theseventies. So which is still
pretty new. But, yeah, as far asbefriending these parts or
befriending our feelings, it'slike, yeah, that relationship
building, I think, in myapproach is most important
there.
It's like you're not gonna beable to help yourself feel your

(23:42):
pain if you have it all stilltucked away in a closet. And the
parts of you that you've tuckedaway, I used a Radiohead quote
for this too. I don't know ifyou remember. They don't trust
you because it wasn't just yourparents and your teachers and
your peers when you were littlethat said, don't be that way.
Ew.
It's like you decided that wasthe truth and you are the
locker, you are the jailer, andall of us that are denying these

(24:03):
parts and trying to cast themout or blaming ourselves for
this quirk or that quirk, we'rethe ones who, at this point, are
really kind of abusing our ourlittle parts. And so we have to
rebuild trust with them and wehave to court them back out. The
Radiohead quote is you do it toyourself. You do and that's what
really hurts. But so yeah.
The first half of this is reallyabout like how do you find and

(24:26):
reinvite, reintegrate with thesehurting parts and then once they
trust you enough then you canmaybe help them clear out some
other pain and yeah, Shamanism,Eastern Spirituality, it's all
been a big part of my path. Theperson who was the most helpful
who I'm private about becausehe's very private. He lives in a
mud hut. He was, Apacheinitiated, and and he was the

(24:48):
biggest influence of my work.And so and he was not he didn't
like therapy.
But but it's, you know, you canget good therapy. There is good
therapy. I'm doing good therapywith people. But it's it's not
what you think of.

Wendy (25:03):
No. I totally understand. Yeah. So can you talk a little
bit about your more spiritualbent? Like, how do you look at
all of this through the lens of

Rachel (25:13):
what

Wendy (25:13):
you've discovered through your own spiritual experiences?

Rachel (25:16):
Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, when I was young, when I
had that awakening at 18 whichin some way was just like I
reclaimed some piece of mywounded self if you've heard of
and maybe your audience isreally used to spiritual talk
like when people do soulretrievals and they bring back
these like, fragmented parts.It's like that's a that's a
version of the work we're doing,but it's someone else doing it

(25:37):
for you. And I don't think itworks that well, honestly.
I mean, maybe it works.

Wendy (25:41):
For you?

Rachel (25:41):
Yeah. It's like at the end of the day, we have to

Wendy (25:44):
Probably depends on the practitioner.

Rachel (25:45):
It's true. Yeah. But also the person I think if we
don't feel like we know what'shappening or we didn't work for
something, it's much harder tointegrate it. Like, a lot of the
end of the book is helpingpeople. How do you integrate the
transformation you've gonethrough so that you actually
know who you are now?
If we're not involved withsomething, in fact, my mentor
would say a lot of what'smissing as far as the wellness

(26:07):
in our society is theconvenience of things, like
people who were living moreindigenously or more earth
connected. You had to havewell-being and strength in order
to bring forth fire or buildyour your home structure or hunt
your food. Like, you can't belazy and entitled and doing
those things. Like, no matterhow cold you are, if you don't

(26:28):
know how to contribute what'sneeded to a fire by friction,
you don't have fire.

Wendy (26:34):
Right.

Rachel (26:34):
So anyway and that was so foreign to me when I started
learning from him in that way.But anyway, just to go back to
the soul retrieval, and I'm notsaying it never works, but I
think the more involved we arein our healing, the more
sustainable it will be and themore we will own the work we've
done. You know?

Wendy (26:52):
I wonder if what you're referencing is the person's
state of readiness. I mean,because the idea of healing and
going to a practitioner who willallegedly heal you when it's
really it doesn't work that wayin shamanism. The shamanic
practitioner is just takingsomeone's request for healing

(27:13):
from this world to the dreamtime world. Yeah. And it's the
practitioner's relationship withtheir their helping spirits.
That's that's the key. But inour culture, we're used to the
magic pill. And if you go to apractitioner thinking, like, I'm
gonna walk out of this sessionand voila, I'll be healed. I'll
have all my soul parts returned,and I'll be whole again, and

(27:35):
it'll be great. But it's justlike a psychedelic experience to
me.
Right. I've never had apsychedelic experience, but
well, with medicine. Mhmm.Right. They say the moment the
medicine is out of your systemis when the real work begins.

Rachel (27:49):
And I think

Wendy (27:50):
that's true with shamanic healing too. The moment your
session is over, that's whenyour true work begins.

Rachel (27:57):
Yeah. I love that. And I think the therapeutic industry
is way too focused right now onpsychedelics as that bigger,
faster, quicker thing. And, youknow, I realized while you were
talking that, like, one of thebig supports right now in my
life in the last few years hasbeen a Dagura lineage diviner.
Like, the first time I met him,I think I went in because of

(28:18):
dating woes and I will get backto your question by the way.
Although, in this exact moment,I can't remember it, but the
soul Soul Rejuvenation. Yeah. Ido remember it. It was about,
like, what happened at 18.

Wendy (28:31):
Oh, yeah. Your spiritual journey.

Rachel (28:33):
Yeah. Yeah. I'll come back to it. But what I'll say is
there was a diviner involvedwith a lot of my community and I
was frustrated about dating andwent to him but didn't say
anything and blew on a quarterand he was like, woah. There's a
huge space in the world for yourwork, but there's this block and
he figured out all these things.
Anyway, I've done probably,like, 6 or 8 sessions with him

(28:53):
over the last 2, 3 years. And hehas me doing stuff that is not
intuitive to me, like, makingofferings of milk, food. The
last one, I just got back to mydesert property and I was
instructed to dump out 4 fullbottles of liquor all over the
land, which I had to spread outof course, so I didn't kill
anything. But so in that way,that is a place in my life where

(29:16):
I am happy to have help that Idon't know anything about. You
know what I mean?
I'm like, tell me what to do.I'll do the rituals. I bring my
most authentic feeling to it.I've received the help. It's
clearly helping, like, so muchhas happened in my life since
then.
So it's not like I think we needto know everything about what's
going on, but I do think inparts work integration, it's
helpful. And so anyway, youasked me about my spiritual

(29:37):
journey and when I first gotaccess to my feelings again and
when that first chunk of me cameback at 18 through it was
actually through the theboyfriend I had by accident. He
begged me to stay with him whenhe went to college. You might
know this from the story. Andthen the moment and I was like,
hell no.
Because I didn't wanna be leftagain. But I finally agreed, and

(29:59):
the moment he went to college,he dropped me, like, whatever
you would drop. And it wasthrough being left again that I
actually had this huge wake up,and there was this whole imagery
around life's not a circle, it'sa spiral, and here I was
revisiting this thing I had beenterrified of, but I wasn't the I
wasn't the same person and sothere was a real spiritual tone

(30:20):
to this first layer of comingback to myself. I think emotions
I was also smoking weed at thetime. It was like in my new
phase of exploring.
Pretty sober in most of my lifesince like 21. I think things
are intense enough as they are,but, yeah, I was having a pretty
far out trip and I think I gotreally into Eastern religions. I

(30:41):
spent a year in Nepal, and I wasstudying I was looking for what
are their what are their healerslike? And it it was so
fascinating. We had talked aboutthat forever, but because they
didn't have the type of healersthat I was expecting and where
they did have them, it wasreally designed toward tourism.
And they did have these villagehealers, the Jonkarees, and
there was this thing, but it wasso far outside of my ideas. And

(31:06):
during that time, I also had abig insight around I'm not a
Buddhist and I'm not a Hindu andbut, like, I'm Jewish. That's
how I found that author RogerKamenetz. What does that mean?
And so I've always had and partof my spiritual life now is in
the the Jewish cycle through theyear.
I think there's some realbrilliant technologies around

(31:26):
the seasons and earth connectionand doing evaluating how am I
not being my true self that'spart of my world. But, yeah, I
taught yoga for years. I've donemy undergrad thesis was on
meditation. I did I've done alot of meditation. And I think
at this point, what's funny iswhen I was young, I really
identified with being spiritualand I think I was trying to

(31:47):
transcend or achieve something.
And the more I've healed, Icould I really don't care. Like,
I feel like I'm mostlyinterested in being, like, my
full human self. And now, like,I'm not trying to transcend
anything at all. Like, I'm notthinking about liberation or
enlightenment. In fact, I'mlike, god, I wish I cared more

(32:08):
because I don't know that Iwanna keep doing this, but I
will say as far as spiritualityis like I this I am so driven
right now.
This is so clearly, like, thepurpose of my life and the the
work I'm doing.

Wendy (32:22):
Right.

Rachel (32:22):
Like, bring it using everything I have access to to,
like, bring this body of help tothe planet at this time and the
the way that infuses my drivebecause I have a full time
therapy practice. That's how Ipay for my life. I have an
apartment that I don't own, butthat's expensive. I bought a
house, and so it's like, I can'tslow down no matter how much

(32:43):
I've done for the book orretreats or anything publicity.
Like, there's no slowing down.
So I'm just really andhopefully, there will be, but
I'm working so hard, but it'sjust so much like the calling
that I can't stop.

Wendy (32:58):
Right. Understood. Yeah. It makes me wonder if, I mean,
it sounds like there's just,like, an integrative experience
that you've had where it's likespirituality isn't this thing
that's out there that you'restriving for. It's just become a
part of probably how you see theworld based on all the
experiences you've had and howyou approach your work.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's moreto it than just this material

(33:21):
reality. Right.

Rachel (33:22):
Yeah.

Wendy (33:23):
There's there's the mental world. There's the
emotional world. There'spotentially an other world.

Rachel (33:28):
Yeah. Many.

Wendy (33:29):
For those of you who are open to that idea. But but,
yeah, I the idea ofenlightenment makes me laugh.
Yeah. I think it's, I don'tknow. It doesn't sound
interesting to me to

Rachel (33:40):
Get off the wheel. I don't know. This human thing's
hard.

Wendy (33:44):
And anybody who says they're enlightened, I wanna
run-in the other direction,actually.

Rachel (33:50):
Yeah. But Right. Yeah.

Wendy (33:52):
The reason why I wanted to dive into that a little bit
is because it seemed like, fromreading your book, your reaction
to Keith's suicide, which Ithink Yeah. Death does that to
most of us is that we go into areally dark existential place.

Rachel (34:09):
Yeah.

Wendy (34:10):
And it's a a real perspective builder. Like, you
start asking questions thatyou'd normally wouldn't ask
unless something like thathappens. Right?

Rachel (34:19):
Yeah. I call myself an initiate of death. I mean, it
changed my whole life. Like, Imight be in fashion design or
interior design if it wasn't forthat. Luckily, I still love
beauty, and I my apartment wasin apartmenttherapy.com
whatever.
It's like I still buy too manyclothes but, yeah, this I mean,
my entire life was shaped inthis being able to rise to the

(34:41):
occasion to be able to transformthis. And I will say, I think I
I found this a lot in dating,like, that I underestimate how
deeply spiritual I am, and Ithink it's because it's so
integrated into who I am. ButI've seen many a person look
like they were electrocuted whenthey leave a date with me. She's
so intense. Or just like, yeah,I mean, the interestingly, I

(35:06):
think I am intense, but I thinkalso there's been a levity like
the last many since I feel likeI got to a place where I really
feel self love, like, I'm mostlyhaving fun.
And I and I think that Iactually just edited a video I'd
made for the Internet thismorning or maybe yesterday, just
being like, if you're notgetting lighter in your healing,
what is the point? Like, wedon't have to take this

(35:28):
seriously. I think the point ofhealing is to enjoy these short
precious lives.

Wendy (35:32):
Good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be
painful, drudgery.

Rachel (35:38):
Yeah. And I think that is the natural outcome. When I
say emotional resilience in thebook title and one of my
favorite little quips I came upwith in this work is emotional
resilience is the new happy. Andthe reason is that if you know
you can handle and you know howto move all of your feelings
through you, then you're gonnaheal so much because you're
gonna be able to clear out someof the backlogged feelings.

(36:00):
You're gonna have such strengthand confidence as you move
through your life becausesurprise, surprise, there's
never not hard feelings.
No matter how strong you are,we're all gonna die. Everyone we
love is gonna die. Like, there'sno way out where you're not
gonna occasionally feel bad. Butif you're not afraid of feeling
bad because you know how to feelbad well, like, skillfully,
you're kinda golden to be whoyou are and to go big and to

(36:23):
take risks. And I think peoplefixating on happiness or joy
instead of that kind of robust,I'm going to feel everything.
And the more we are willing tofeel our bad feelings, our hard
feelings, bad with in quotes,the more access we get to joy
and to happiness. And I thinkthe more genuine levity and
delight we can have. So

Wendy (36:44):
Yeah. You're talking about freedom, really. I mean,
if you can experience all ofyou, the good, bad, and the ugly

Rachel (36:51):
Yep. Yep.

Wendy (36:52):
Then that's that's pure freedom.

Rachel (36:54):
Yeah. Then it's like, well, what do you want? What do
you wanna do with this shortlittle life?

Wendy (36:58):
And it's all very it's all very human too. Yeah. I know
we've already kind of touched onthis, but I wanna ask this
question in this way because theword stuck comes into my mind
all the time with respect to howI describe the folks that I work
with in my practice too. Andfrom your perspective and what

(37:18):
you've learned, why do you thinkpeople are feeling so stuck?

Rachel (37:23):
Lots of ways. I think the one level or echelon of
people are they're just tryingto not feel bad and so they're
they're deeply ingrained inhabits like, constant
distraction, constantconsumption, or chasing a high
to avoid their pain that is sopervasive and those kinds of

(37:44):
behaviors only lead to sufferingwhether it's relational or
disease addiction, whatever itis. So there's there's that
level. Those people are clearlystuck because they're trying to
outrun themselves. There's noway of course, those people
aren't coming into your office,so I don't think that's what
you're talking about.
I think probably the people thatare coming to get help that are
still stuck. I imagine it's moreabout kind of what we've already

(38:07):
been alluding to around wantingto dip their toe in the pain
maybe or or the truth enough tosay they did it but that they're
quickly running from it. Somaybe if let's say like someone
had a hard work presentation andso suddenly they're feeling
imposter syndrome or shame ordid I screw up? Am I a screw up?

(38:30):
Those kinds of feelings.
Most likely people are going tobe like, oh, no. No. No. You
know, kinda battle withthemselves. No.
You're doing it good. You'reyou're you did this well. And we
think that that's us taking careof ourselves, and there's a lot
of schools of thought that willsay that's the right thing but
it's basically like it's almostlike trying to ride 2 horses

(38:51):
would be one way to picture itor that I like to say there's a
door in the bottom of the wellof your pain but if you just dip
your toe and then run away fromit, you're you're not gonna get
down there to see what happenswhen you feel it all the way
through. So what I think I'mtrying to teach is can you learn
how to create a containedexperience to actually feel how

(39:13):
bad you feel? And it it wouldn'tbe in that meeting.
It's not always the appropriatetime to do it. That's why I talk
about there's reactive emotionalrelease work, there's proactive.
Reactive. Let's say you had thathard meeting you feel like shit
maybe go into the bathroom oraround the block and you let you
give yourself 20 minutes toreally like wallow or suffer in

(39:35):
that fear or shame that came upfrom your performance. Right?
And then you would try to comeout of it. That would be more of
a way to move through somethingthan just like the kind of
constant battle. I think whatpeople are dealing with more
generally is that there is aconstant suffering happening but

(39:56):
an equally constant numbinghappening and so nothing is
acute enough or loud enough tobe actually transformative
whereas if we can touch orexperience our our acute grief
or our shame as a sensationalexperience of burning and
collapse in the body for, like,a couple minutes. I mean, most

(40:17):
people are afraid. Well, if I dothat, I'll never come out of it.
I'm like, yeah. Good luck tryingto stay with it for a few
minutes. Like, that's not unlessyour partner just died or you
just got dumped. Like, mostpeople can't sustain feeling for
very long.

Wendy (40:32):
I think you just hit on the key point that I think what
leads to the stuckness ispeople's fear of if they allow
themselves to feel the thingthat they'll never come out of
it.

Rachel (40:43):
Yeah.

Wendy (40:43):
And that they'll just sink down into a well of despair
and stay there. Yeah. Maybebecause of that lack of
resilience, they haven't knownwhat it's like that emotions do
have that distinct beginning,middle, and an end. Right. Each
wave of it.
Yeah. And if you allow yourselfto go through it, you will come
out to the other side. But ifyou haven't let yourself have
the experience, then you don'tknow that yet.

Rachel (41:04):
Right. Yeah. There's the fear, but I also think all the
years of numbing our body'snatural mechanisms are being
shamed out of them orconditioning ourselves out of
them. That even once people arelike, alright, fine. I'll feel
my feelings.
You got me. Even at that point,it's like you have to kind of
like massage the system. Youhave to, like, retrain the

(41:26):
body's capacity, the person'sawareness. They're they're kind
of like creating the muscularstrength to stay with the
feelings. A lot of and I thinkit's important to know that and
I trust anyone who's inspired bythis and picks up the book.
You are gonna have so many veryspecific tips and tricks to try
when you try. It will still behard and a lot of the early

(41:48):
experiences are feeling like afailure. The good news about
that is that you probablyalready feel like a failure and
so if you can just recognize uphere I am, I'm even failing
feeling bad. Then if you cantrack that into your body, then
boom, you're in your feelings.But I think there's the fear
that I agree is huge.
And then there's the lack ofkind of the system operating in

(42:10):
in a healthy way. So that's partof what the skill building can
do and in general I just thinklike the distance we have from
our experience and there's somany ways that happens I think
it's through what we've alreadysaid I think there's also
language gestalt therapy reallyhelped me. There's so many
people were when they're talkingabout their experience, they
start saying well, you know, andyou go do this and then you feel

(42:32):
this and there's all these wayswe're trying to get away from
our experience and one of myfavorite things about gestalt is
like the idea is agency, thatsense of I can create change in
my life is part of what createshealth in a person and the only
way we know what change tocreate is if we're really close
to ourselves. So So it's allabout really using language

(42:53):
that's like, say I. You're notselfish if you say I.
You're talking about yourself.Like you don't know what if
someone's telling me they'reexperiencing like, well, you
know, when you do this, youdon't know what happens to me
And I don't let none of myclients I call it the I game.
They're not allowed to say oryou when they mean I.
Unfortunately, I've done it ondates too. People don't like

(43:14):
that as much.
But it's like, I think we'restuck because we're afraid of
being really close to ourexperience, and we're afraid of
it because it's painful. Andonce we taste and I think this
is really important. It's animportant point on the healing
journey. People have to tastethe relief for themselves. Well,
I do my best to really make acase for this and to teach
people how to do it.

(43:34):
Sounds good. But until you havea tiny bit of relief because you
sat with your pain for 15minutes and you feel a little
lighter, you feel a little morerelaxed, you're gonna be like a
little bit unsure. And if youcannot give up in that time,
just keep trying until you havea taste of that relief. And then
it's very self motivatingbecause there's something that
actually works. Like the hoursof watching and scrolling and

(43:57):
the pounds of eating, they don'tactually make us feel better,
but feeling how bad we feeldoes.

Wendy (44:03):
Healing is not an intellectual process. It sounds
like that's what you're saying.And that's, I think, where a lot
of us wanna stay, and that'swhat I was kind of referring to
earlier in how a lot of talktherapy is

Rachel (44:15):
approached. It

Wendy (44:16):
keeps you in that intellectual place. Yeah.

Rachel (44:19):
Yeah.

Wendy (44:19):
And if you read the book and if you get the steps in the
book and you understand thesteps, but then you don't
actually go through the steps.

Rachel (44:28):
Yeah. At the end of every chapter, I'm like, stop
reading. Now go try it, please.But, you know, I can't make that
choice. You paint the map to thewell, and you you hope to make
it sound enticing.
And it's my deep prayer with mylife that people will use this
to just get freer and happierand kinder and more empathic,
but I can only do my part. Sobut yeah.

Wendy (44:49):
Yep. The invitation is here in the book.

Rachel (44:51):
And I tried to make it really like I tried to not sound
smart and to really I tried tomake it really applicable for
lay folks. Like, that's why poopis so great. Like, you're
pooping. If you're alive, you'repooping. Right?
And so I I've tried to make itaccessible. I hope it is. It is.
That's what I was going to saythat it is a

Wendy (45:07):
very reader friendly book. Yeah. Not intimidating at
all. I mean, it makes you laugh.It also makes a lot of sense.
So your approach is superinviting. Thanks.

Rachel (45:22):
Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (45:23):
And so as we wind our conversation down, you are a
practicing psychotherapist. So Iimagine your practice is full,
and you might even have awaiting list.

Rachel (45:33):
You know, you'd be shocked. It's not. I've had
moments well, the waiting listpart, that's on me. Right? It's
up to me to say, okay.
No more clients. And I thinkthat will happen more and more
as the years go on. I thinkright now, like I've said, it's
like I have 2 homes, and I lovethe work so much that I I don't
always say no to the clients. Ifeel like I do have space. But I

(45:55):
do yeah.
If you you're welcome. Ifsomeone's interested in working
with me, you could reach out. Ido also have ways to work with
me where they aren't sopersonal. Like, I have a DIY
course that is like anotherguided journey through this
emotional potty trainingprogram. I have like a bunch of
classes I've taught that are alllike in a catalog that you could
do at your own pace.

(46:15):
I have a membership and all ofthat is housed together and
actually tomorrow I have 10people coming to my property in
the desert which I do twice ayear for what I call the
Becoming Ourselves HealingRetreat, where people come and
they do kind of a deep dive ofthis parts work reintegration.
They may they dedicate theretreat to a specific part of

(46:35):
them. They're trying to courtback and get to know, and we
have a log for chopping wood,and we have a whole field of
Joshua trees and cacti forthrowing rocks and feeling
feelings, and we we even natureconnection and death and all
these, like, sound healing. So,yeah, there's various ways to
work with me, but all of themcan be found through the

(46:56):
feelingsmovement.com. One coolthing about making all this
content, both the podcast andthe YouTube version and I'm on
some social media things, isthat I really ask my clients
like you said about shamanism itstarts at the end of your
session.
I'm asking people who wanna workwith me and you should only
contact me if you're willing towork between sessions. You're

(47:16):
willing to like kind of use thebook and use the episodes to
practice what you're so becauseI don't wanna talk at people for
their therapy. I wanna use ourconnection.

Wendy (47:27):
What's the point of that? Yeah.

Rachel (47:29):
And but the great but if I didn't have all this somewhere
else, I would need to because Iwould need to teach them. I
don't think that the main thingthat heals them is our voice.

Wendy (47:36):
Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. I thought you
meant just as an approach. Yeah.

Rachel (47:39):
Yeah. I mean, I don't believe anymore that it's our
compassionate kind regard foreach other that's gonna heal
them. That's nice. I'm sure thatthey didn't get that always, but
I'm pretty kind of fierce withmy clients. I think the point is
they need to learn how to bethat for themselves, and there's
a lot of teaching that happens.
And so luckily, I've done thatelsewhere, and we can use our

(48:00):
sessions just to troubleshoothow it's going and to for them
to practice with me how to dropinto their feelings makes me a
lot more efficient, but I onlywant people who are willing to
do that. If you come in beinglike wanting me to explain the
same thing to you over and overor just wanting to tell me your
dramatic week, it's not thatinteresting for you. I could
have you pay me to talk at melike your buddy, but it's not

(48:23):
good for you and I'm toocommitted to that.

Wendy (48:25):
So but as far as doing psychotherapy with folks, are
you licensed just California.And when I

Rachel (48:31):
work with people who are not in California, we don't use
insurance and we don't call itpsychotherapy. But because it's
it is a little different, I'vebecome a psycho educator. So I
can do helpful work in aslightly in a slightly different
way that feels in integrity. Ithink those laws are really
about maintaining people'ssafety and integrity. They are.

(48:53):
Yeah. I don't think it's that mymy skills aren't helpful if
we're not living in the sametown. But, you know, I hold it a
little differently, And and youcan't get a super bill for it.

Wendy (49:03):
Right. No. I just wanted to verify that for people who
might be interested in

Rachel (49:07):
Yeah. Looking for it. Trouble, but I do work with
people outside of California.And we do

Wendy (49:12):
Well, psychoeducation is a very different thing than
psychotherapy.

Rachel (49:15):
Yeah.

Wendy (49:17):
So that makes sense. And and then out of pocket makes
sense too. What is the name ofyour podcast?

Rachel (49:23):
The podcast is the healing feeling shit show. Yeah.
You know and every episode has apoop story like in fact if you
have one I'd love you to recordit and email it to me and I poop
my pants kind of story at comicrelief poop story but I I mostly
am not doing episodes. I amgonna do an abbreviated season

(49:44):
this season with about 6 to 8episodes just to kind of, like,
celebrate the book coming out.But because this was the first
iteration of me getting thisworkout.
So now the book is out.

Wendy (49:55):
So is it just you discussing your ideas and
thoughts with folks? You're nottalking with guests.

Rachel (50:01):
Well, season 1 is kind of like a version of the book.
Season 1 is a guided journeythrough healing in this way.
It's a lot less refined than thebook at this point. I wrote it
in 2018, and it's really good.It's thorough.
It's like and a lot of thequotes that you hear from in the
book of clients are actually inthe podcast. I wrote essentially

(50:22):
a book and then turned it into apodcast and then tried to turn
it into a book and edited it for5, 6 years. But, season 1 is
that. Season 2 is interviewswith healing experts and there's
like, probably maybe about 10sessions of me doing therapy
with people Oh, wow. Who werewilling to do it on the
Internet.

Wendy (50:42):
Okay.

Rachel (50:43):
And then I did a few special episodes, one with my
high school therapist like Isaid, one about coronavirus, one
with friends who are in a bandfor, like, a kind of very
sporadic season 3. And then thisseason will be me interviewing
people. Like, the firstinterview is the person who has
a quote on the cover of my bookwho's a trauma therapist. Part
of the motivation to do this, Imet Gabor Mate and gave him a

(51:05):
letter, and he agreed that Icould, interview him. I'm
waiting to hear back to scheduleit, but I was like, yeah.

Wendy (51:10):
That's a big get. Alright.

Rachel (51:11):
So, like, it's a good idea to put out a few, and part
of it will be for people to meetsome of the endorsers of the
book. Like, who are these peoplethat are sharing their opinion?
But I generally I don't thinkthat the best use of my life is
to be a talk show host. And soI'm trying to just go where I'm
most useful. And so that it wasreally important and I knew that
I wanted to get the book out.

(51:31):
Like, this is really aboutchampioning a body of
understanding and knowledge tohelp train people and so the
book is a good way to do that.We'll see what other ways come
up.

Wendy (51:42):
Well, your creative mind, I'm sure, will come up with some
interesting things that willprobably surprise you.

Rachel (51:48):
Yeah. And, like, whatever the universe wants from
me. Right when I went viral, Ihad a viral moment shortly after
that first set of rituals, whichis funny because at first, I was
I was on a trip in Europe afterI did all the rituals, and I had
a different thought. I was like,oh, maybe I'll do this book
instead of that book first. AndI was like, oh, that must be the
the fruit of the ritual.
Like, that was it. Right? Andthen, like, 6 weeks later, I

(52:09):
went from 2,000 followers to a112,000 followers in, like, a
week. But anyway, right afterthat, I had a couple TV
producers reach out to me, andwe actually created a pitch. And
it was one of those momentswhere I was, like, that kind of
attention could ruin your life,like, ruin my life.
Let's say, Let me own it and notsay yours. But it was even in

(52:31):
that opportunity. I'm like, I'mjust a yes. Like, I want to be
used well. I want to took methis long to be able to ride
this weird pony that I am, andso I think there's medicine in
that, just being willing to beseen as a weird authentic
expressive human.
And so I'm kind of hoping to sayyes to as many of the

(52:51):
opportunities that come my waybut also with balance and
hopefully getting compensated soI can work a little bit.

Wendy (52:59):
That sounds reasonable. Yeah. Alright. Well, Rachel,
thank you so much for coming onthe show.

Rachel (53:07):
It was so fun. I really like you. So easy to talk to
you.

Wendy (53:12):
Sweet. I like you too. Yeah. Thank you.

Rachel (53:14):
Cool. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Wendy (53:17):
Well, given how things are unfolding in the world, and
in the US in particular, whoknew a shit show could be this
inviting? To learn more aboutRachel's work, or to purchase a
copy of her book, please visitthe feelingsmovement.com. Thank
you so much for joining metoday, and for helping me spread
the word about Lucid Cafe. I'llbe back in a few weeks with the

(53:41):
next episode. It's anotherreally good one that's delicious
and heart opening.
How's that for a tease? Untilnext time.