March 21, 2024 • 56 mins
In this episode I chat with the host of the Supernormalized podcast CeeJay Barnaby about his spiritual journey, personal philosophies and powerful meditation practice. He also gives us an intimate glimpse into his inner world and a rather disturbing spiritual experience he had.
Check out CeeJay’s podcast Supernormalized
Email CeeJay: supernormalized@proton.me
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wendy (00:02):
You're listening to Lucid Cafe. I'm your host, Wendy
Halley. Hey. Thanks for joiningme for another episode of Lucid
(00:34):
Cafe. A podcast exploringhealing, consciousness, and the
complexities of being human.
Well, speaking of thosecomplexities, today's episode is
kind of a perfect example of howchallenging being human can be
at times. So this is part 2 of apod swap I did with CeeJay
Barnaby, who's the host of thepodcast Super Normalized, Where
(00:59):
part 1 focused primarily on myotherworldly experiences in
shamanic practice, This episodefocuses on CeeJay's experiences.
So if you listen to part 1, yougot a glimpse of his inner
world. Well, today, you're gonnaget a big and quite intimate
glimpse of how things haveplayed out in CeeJay's inner
(01:19):
world in a pretty dramatic way.So please enjoy part 2 of my
conversation with CeeJayBarnaby.
CeeJay (01:30):
Welcome to Supernormalize, Wendy Halley.
We're back for a secondinterview here. So, I'm very
looking forward to getting intoour discussion today, Wendy. And
as this is a bit of a sharedpodcast, maybe you wanted to
introduce me as well.
Wendy (01:45):
Yeah. Absolutely. We have CeeJay Barnaby with us, and it's
such an unusual thing to bedoing 2 podcasts at the same
time. So
CeeJay (01:59):
I'm trying to get used to it too.
Wendy (02:02):
Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with
me. I really appreciate it.
CeeJay (02:06):
Yeah. Thank you too. I really appreciate coming back
for a second interview here, andI'm looking forward to seeing
what comes out because we had alot to say last time. We were
like, at the end we were like ,let's do this again.
Wendy (02:15):
So here we are. And so here we are. Absolutely. Yeah.
Alright. So, CeeJay, why don'tyou tell me a little bit about,
like, where is your head atthese days as far as your
perspective on the world and howyou make sense of things?
CeeJay (02:31):
How I make sense of things? Okay. So I like to see
the way the world sort ofinforms me through information
that gets presented to me. It'slike I'm in a continuous
dialogue with reality, and Ihave this sort of open sort of
vision and an open sort ofcosmology that allows me to be
(02:53):
able to hear and be able to beaware of, say, intuitions that,
point me in certain directionsor information that I need to
get my eyes across. And I thinkthat comes about from my
meditation practice, which I Itry to do at least once or twice
every day without fail, becausethat actually opens me up to
(03:13):
having more of an intuitive sortof way in the world.
And my intuition comes in theform of either, like, ideas or
seeing something, say, anywhere,like in the media or anywhere
that just seems to grab myattention. And the way that sort
(03:34):
of informs me, guides me on a ona path, and I and I seem to be
to know the right path most ofthe time, not all the time. I
mean, sometimes I get distractedand thrown around a bit, but,
most of the time I try to keepeverything pretty clear and on
sort of some some sort of focusthat allows me to keep a
connection to what I would callinfinite reality. Because, there
(03:56):
does seem to be some sort ofconcerted effort at distraction
in our reality nowadays. And Ithink keeping a clear focus or
keeping a clear understanding ofwhere you are going in life and
how you can change to yourbenefit is and then the benefit
(04:16):
of others because, you know, youhave to, you know, be the change
that you wanna see in the worldand really, embrace that.
I think that's an importantthing to do. So for me, that
seems to be as a big a big partof me, and I I stick with that
and try to keep that up as apart of my personal cosmology in
(04:37):
the everyday.
Wendy (04:38):
Okay. You mentioned, and I'm trying to remember the exact
words you used, that there's aneffort to distract us.
CeeJay (04:46):
Yes.
Wendy (04:47):
What do you mean by that?
CeeJay (04:48):
Okay. Imagine okay. There seems to be, like, from my
from my perspective of of myexperiences that there is a
there's many creative forces ormany sort of forces in the
universe, in our universe, ourenvironmental sort of
experience. And some of thoseforces are towards the pure
(05:09):
creative and enhancement ofunderstanding and experience in
the world and of the world. Andthen there's others which are
all like distraction,dissection, and they are, like,
sort of negative credit sort offorce.
So one could be love based andthe other could be the opposite
(05:30):
of love based, not necessarilyhate, but it could be this
distraction. So it stops youfrom really focusing on the pure
authenticity of being here andexperiencing from the absolute
truth rather than the masks thatwe put upon the truth of what
is.
Wendy (05:46):
Okay. You make it sound as though it's an intentional
thing.
CeeJay (05:49):
Yeah. For sure.
Wendy (05:51):
And so who or what would you suggest is intending it?
CeeJay (05:55):
I haven't figured that out yet.
Wendy (05:58):
Just a just a small question, a light question.
CeeJay (06:01):
Okay. So there there seems to be from my experience I
mean, I've been lucky in someways because I've had
experiences with plant medicineswhere the spirits that have come
to me have always been reallysuper helpful. And I would say,
like, goading me towardspersonal growth and enhancement.
(06:21):
But there has been times whenI've been literally that's
wanted to say it's like distractI mean, I've gotta say
distracted because those itseems like a distraction every
single time. It's like you couldyou have in every single moment,
there's this choice that couldcome from your decision.
You know, it could be in onedirection or it could be in
another direction. And everysingle one of those is a door
(06:42):
opening and, like, an openingtowards truth or an opening
towards distraction. And if youchoose the trip path of truth
all the time, it's I mean, it'sa conscious effort to actually
keep it going, then you'reopening the portals towards
authenticity and a greaterconnection to the world and a
greater connection to nature andand the environment and everyone
(07:03):
and everything around you. Butif you tell you the truth is the
other direction, you actuallystart shutting that down. And,
yeah, I've had times in my lifewhere I have shut that down.
And one of those times wasintentionally just to see what
would happen, and other timeshas been because I had
experiences of possession to tovarying degrees. And possession
is is anything that that takesyour attention more than it
(07:27):
should. And and it seems like alot of the social media and
everything that we see around usin the way of divisiveness in
the media and amongst people isa form of distraction. That is
that, taking away from thetruth.
Wendy (07:43):
I think you've hit on something extremely important.
It's something I talk about alot. I've been wondering about
this. I mean, I think about thisa lot, the whole distraction
piece. I think culturally, mostthese are just my my thoughts.
I'm curious what you think ofthem, at least my thoughts as of
today. Okay. That culturally,kind of in a universal way, sort
(08:07):
of this Western cultureperspective, We have a very
external focus. In other words,we're-- it's all about the
external world and that we'retrying to organize and put in
order the things in our externalworld so that our internal world
will feel better. There's not alot of internal focus.
Right? And and I think that'swhy meditation seems like such a
(08:29):
novel thing when it actuallyprobably should be just the norm
and probably how we should beleading our lives. But our focus
is very externalized and it doesit to me, I I look at it as like
a byproduct of our culturalworldview.
CeeJay (08:43):
Definitely. Colonialized mind.
Wendy (08:46):
Exactly. Precisely. Yeah. So because we have maybe a lack
of a relationship with ourinternal world, I think the
byproduct of that is a lot ofnoise. So a lot of mental noise,
a lot of emotional noise.
CeeJay (09:02):
Exactly.
Wendy (09:03):
And because of all that noise, it's really hard to tap
into the spiritual side of youbecause you have to kind of sort
through all of that shit to beable to get to your intuition,
that higher guidance, thosefeelings of bliss that you can
you can tap into on occasion. Asyou were talking about this
external force kind of causingdistraction, showing up through
(09:25):
social media and advertisementsand the media in general and
just who's doing what becausewe're interested. Not really.
But Yeah. Yeah.
Maybe we're just very nosy. Idon't know. That's the social
media world. But if thatinternal noise is actually for
(09:47):
people who are sensitive, I'mtrying to find a way I don't
think I've ever articulated thisout loud, so I'm struggling to
put it into words. But it's kindof like, why wouldn't our
internal noise be external too?
So, like, when you're trying totap into that level of reality,
it's like you're having to sortthrough everybody's noise that's
(10:09):
kind of populating the planet.It sounds so dramatic, but,
really, I mean, thoughts andfeelings are frequency, are
energy. Right? So, of course,energy isn't contained inside
your body. It's going to travelthroughout the energetic realm.
Mhmm. And so if the energeticrealm if, like, you're tapping
(10:30):
into that through yourmeditation on your way to
shamanic trance, you have to getthrough all of that noise
CeeJay (10:38):
Yes.
Wendy (10:38):
In order to get to this other place. Right? And if
you're noisy already and you'retrying to get through every
other people's noise, it's likeit's like, yeah, extra hard and
frustrating. And I notice itwhen I'm doing shamanic work
with folks in that if someonehas a lot of disruption in their
interior world, it's really hardfor me to make my way through
(11:03):
all of that noise in order toget to
CeeJay (11:05):
Yep.
Wendy (11:06):
What I need to perceive for my folks, my invisible
friends to do the healing work,at least for me to understand
what it is that they're doing.But, anyway, blah blah blah, all
of that. Any thoughts on any ofthat stuff I was just saying?
CeeJay (11:18):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So, yeah, the the the noise that
actually is, internalized, Iactually would say even well, if
we take it to the to the mundanedegree of, say, the secret, you
know, people will say, you know,the secret manifest everything,
you know, by your will, which isquite, to put a plainly, Crowley
and the Alema type based sort ofmagic. We actually do manifest
reality around us from from ourinternal will.
(11:41):
And if your will is full ofdistraction and your will is
full of dissection type stories,you know, we are unfortunately
naturally colonized already inin our brain and our thinking
and our understanding of timeand categories.
Wendy (11:55):
Mhmm.
CeeJay (11:56):
When that ex that becomes externalized and you're
a really noisy person, thatturns into a life of drama and
disaster continuously. And I'veand I can say that because I've
I've actually experienced it. II had a partner, way back when,
and and her life was justdramatic all the time. And I
(12:17):
knew what was going on. It wasbecause of all the stuff that
she was carrying in herself, andit was so hard to work with.
But I vowed after that timeafter that experience, so that
relationship to really be more,understanding with people, but
also choose better partners.That's Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy (12:41):
Process of elimination. Alright. Now I know what doesn't
work.
CeeJay (12:44):
Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Wendy (12:45):
So it helps me find what will work. That is really what
dating is all about, I think.
CeeJay (12:50):
I think so. Yeah. But, bring it back around. Yeah. So
that that that noise doesmanifest in reality around you.
And so if you if you have a ifyou are a person that's, we just
say, caught up in multiple storyloops or, multiple
understandings, which aren'texactly you or aren't even truly
(13:11):
you, then you you pretty muchfeel like you're living life in
a pinball machine, andeverything's a quite a pain, and
it's really difficult. And it'sit's often feels like it's
nearly impossible to sort outwhen you're inside that. And, it
often does take a pattern breakto be able to see it for what it
is and to step back and go,okay. This isn't me, and these
(13:33):
aren't my stories. Who am I, andwhat do I want and need to live?
You know? And when you hit thatpoint, then things start to
change like it's karma becauseyou start to realize what you
need.
Wendy (13:47):
Okay. Well, you make it sound very simple.
CeeJay (13:50):
Well, I'm fine too. It's not that simple, but yeah.
Wendy (13:55):
I was gonna say, it's like once you realize it, it's I
think that's a a big struggle onanyone's path is once they start
wanting to be and do better Yes.They start paying attention to
what's getting in the way, andthen they find out, like, oh,
all of these stories, likeyou're saying, these these
narratives that I have playingout in my psyche are not serving
(14:17):
me. And it's like, well, nowthat I know that, now what?
Like, what's the true narrative?What's what's really if I'm not
the things that I think I am,then what how do I figure out
who I really am?
And so I don't know if you wentthrough a process like that, but
I'm curious if you don't mind,talking a bit about your
(14:38):
particular process of quietingthe noise.
CeeJay (14:43):
Okay. So quieting the noise, to me, I was actually
really good at it as as a child,and then I sort of left behind
my meditation practice that Ihave learned through my early
teens, and life was quite messybecause of that at the time and
also, you know, growing up in myteens. That's just typical. In
the end of my teens, I startedto recover it again, and I did
(15:05):
that through reading a book onpositive thinking, and that
helped me to sort of breakthrough at the time. I can't
remember the name of the book,right now because it's so long
ago.
And that helped me to breakthrough into an understanding of
what, I needed to do aboutmyself. And I started meditating
again, and I did so with aneffort. And what I mean by an
(15:26):
effort is I set up a practicefor myself where I say I'm doing
it this time every day, thistime every day. And the body
comes along for the ride at thatstage and goes, okay. Well, this
time every day, I'm just gonnastart letting go as well.
So you you do actually find thatit becomes a concerted effort of
the body and the mind when youset up a practice like that. And
for me, just the the point of ofmaking that that space for
(15:51):
myself allowed all of the loopsthat I was carrying at that time
to just break naturally. It'slike I wasn't allowing in them
to rule my life. And in breakingthose loops, it it allowed for
an expansion towards theinfinite. Because those loops
are sort of limiting in the waythey hold you in and hold and
(16:13):
when they're holding you inplace, they hold you in in mind.
They hold you in in patterns.You know? Not all of the
patterns are healthy. Not allthe patterns are unhealthy, but
they just are. But they arestill loops, and and breaking
those loops for me allowed meto, get more in touch with my
intuition.
And and then over time, thatallowed me to, again, connect
(16:35):
more to nature, connect more tothe nature of myself, my true
self, and what I really need andand who I really am, and that
helped me to, I'd say, groundground out, really. That's the
the ultimate the ultimategrounding. Yeah.
Wendy (16:53):
Nice. Well said. So you're saying that, primarily,
it's meditation that was thetool you used.
CeeJay (17:00):
Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Meditation was the main
tool I used for sure. I mean,what I was using other medicines
as well sometimes, butmeditation was the main key.
Wendy (17:09):
What kind of medicines?
CeeJay (17:11):
Psychedelics.
Wendy (17:12):
Oh, okay. Plant medicines. Psychedelics.
CeeJay (17:15):
And Yeah. Psychedelics. We're gonna say psychedelics.
Wendy (17:17):
Not not all not always plant medicines. So it could be
LSD or Yeah. Okay.
CeeJay (17:22):
But they're all done consciously. I should say that
too. It was it wasn't reallylike right. Recreational.
Wendy (17:25):
It wasn't recreational. Yeah.
CeeJay (17:27):
No. No. Because I didn't find recreational. Didn't really
do anything good for anyone, inthe end. And and it could be
fun, but then that doesn'treally help you.
You've actually gotta put effortinto what I would call a
ritualized practice of ofexperience. And when you do
that, it actually invites inother forces to help you on your
(17:48):
way, for sure.
Wendy (17:50):
I'm intrigued.
CeeJay (17:52):
Oh, okay.
Wendy (17:55):
Well, I wanna hear about other forces. But before we go
into that, I'd I'd love for youto describe what flavor of
meditation you practice.
CeeJay (18:03):
Oh, okay. I've talked to people and they say it's like a,
Vipassana slash transcendentalmeditation type style. What I do
is I I sit still either in anupright position on the floor or
an upright position in a chair.And in doing so, I, just allow
(18:23):
my body to relax, and I allow mymind to relax. And the thoughts
that are popping into my head, Ijust observe them and let them
pass, and I get to a certainpoint where I find a space
between everything.
And when I hit that spacebetween everything, I find at
that moment, all understandingstarts to get get abstract, and
(18:46):
my my hearing becomes abstract.I can't understand what I'm
hearing anymore. You know? Atfirst, those those sort of,
phenomenal effects were a bitsurprising, and I'd pop back in.
Yeah.
But once you get used to it andyour body gets used to it and
your mind gets used to it andalso the mind also realize that
this is a good thing and stopspresenting things to you, then,
(19:08):
yeah, you really hit the deepopen space. And, it's like time
traveling. You you get reallydeep, and in a moment, you're
coming out. It's like, well,it's a new day. So, yeah, that's
what I do.
Wendy (19:18):
Very cool. So it sounds like you were you were just
doing it intuitively. You werejust doing meditation the way
you wanted to do meditation orwhat made sense to you just to
quiet yourself.
CeeJay (19:35):
And I think when I talked about that last time,
when I was 4 or 5 years old, Iwas compelled to go across the
road to the forest from where welived. And, being the seventies,
I was loosely parented, so I wasallowed to walk across the, the
dirt road to the forest becausethere's no cars. So
Wendy (19:57):
So do you had latchkey kids in Australia too in the
seventies?
CeeJay (20:01):
Yeah. We're we're I was only 4 or 5, so my mother was
sitting on the balcony watching,but I she'd allowed me to go
across the forest because I wasso fascinated by it, and I had a
thing that I used to do.
Wendy (20:10):
Yeah. You you were very little when you did that. Okay.
CeeJay (20:13):
Yeah. Very, very little.
Wendy (20:14):
Didn't quite penetrate my brain. Okay. So you you go over
there?
CeeJay (20:18):
I go over there, and I walk across into the forest, and
I walked I walked into, like, alittle path. For me, it seemed
like I was walking a 100 meters,but, you know, I went back and
looked at it as an adult. It wasonly about 5 meters.
Wendy (20:30):
That's adorable.
CeeJay (20:31):
Yeah. And there was these rocks that I used to sit
on. And as a baby, I'd sit thereor a child or child, infant, I
should say. I'd sit there, andbeings would come to me from the
forest, and they were my friendsfrom on my memory of it. And,
they taught me how to meditate.
And the way they did that wasjust say, be still. And they
(20:52):
keep me, like, in a sort ofspace where I'd be still. And
then all of a sudden, the plantsaround me started to wiggle like
I'm underwater. And it wasbeautiful, and I loved it. And I
used to do go and do that asoften as I possibly could.
Wendy (21:07):
That's so cool.
CeeJay (21:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy (21:10):
Alright. So then going back to forces were helping you.
CeeJay (21:14):
That's right. You asked me about meditation. Yeah. So
these these beings told me howto meditate the first sort of
way. And then as I got older, Isort of forgot that method.
I didn't like, it it's it, like,it fell away because of all of
the social pressure. And what Imean by social pressure is that,
like, for what was normal for mewasn't normal for anyone around
me at all. So I had to sort ofshut down a lot of that sort of
(21:37):
communication with the spiritsthat I had at that stage. And
that didn't help me, and infact, it actually made things
worse for me in the world. And,it it left me with the it's like
a rift, in in my soul and myheart.
I actually felt a a yearning forthat connection to those spirits
again.
Wendy (21:54):
And there was, like, losing a limb.
CeeJay (21:55):
I didn't know what that was. It was. It was. Definitely
was. And and and it felt like Iwas a fish out of water when it
came to normal culture.
I was, I thought that what I wasexperiencing was normal. And
then when I discovered that itwasn't normal, I sort of put
pressure myself to be normal,and then I was thinking, well, I
mean, normal. These people areretarded by comparison. So, when
(22:18):
it comes to connection to theinfinite, it seemed like I had
something that I wish everyonehad, and I wanted to bring that
to them. Because that had beenthat became a part of my mission
in in my experiencing of theworld.
As I got older and I did recoverthat meditation practice, and
it's it's helped me immenselysince, I can tell you. It's
(22:39):
like, I I need to meditatebecause that actually, helps my
deeper connection to the world.
Wendy (22:46):
Do you think you kind of answered the other forces
question already? Do Do youthink you already addressed
that?
CeeJay (22:51):
The other forces question. So, yeah, we would say
that. Yeah. I mean, otherforces. I mean, we were talking
about other forces being bothpositive and negative.
I wanna actually touch on thenegative ones too because a lot
of people, from my understandingand my experience, when I talk
about them in the past, althoughI'm finding more people that
actually get it nowadays. Notall spirit entities or
(23:14):
disconnect or, entities areactually friendly or out to help
you. And you can invite them inthrough really ramping up the
distraction in your life and youknow, even those distractions
themselves can be those, like,tentacles of those entities. And
what I mean by tentacles,they're just falling away into
to hook in to your consciousnessto have a life through you. And
(23:40):
that's not necessarily a goodthing for you because often
you'll have with, you know,their influence upon your life.
You'll you'll have ideas andthings you're doing in the
world, which you think are you,but then when they're gone, you
realize was not you at all.Right? Like, that's addiction,
(24:01):
for example.
Wendy (24:02):
You had an experience like this?
CeeJay (24:03):
Yeah. For sure. For sure. So I think we all have
experiences like this. I mean,just picture addiction for 1.
When you're addicted tosomething, it's like the spirit
of whatever it is you'readdicted to, has taken you over
and makes you come back for moreand more and more. But that
spirit of addiction is alsoexperiencing through you using
it. It it's gaining energy fromyou by your experience of it.
Wendy (24:24):
Okay. That's an interesting frame. Yeah.
CeeJay (24:28):
So, yeah, anything anything can be a a soft form of
possession. Now I didn't like, Iwas a bit of, like, a as a part
of trying to become a normalperson. I I hate yeah. I laugh
at that because I look back atit and think it's silly.
Wendy (24:46):
Well, normal's a loaded word, isn't it?
CeeJay (24:49):
It is. It is. You know? And I manifested a friend that
was a very, scientificmaterialist. And part of that
was, you know, also a connectionto that sort of atheistic
Cartesian dogma that, you know,is written into all of our,
colonialized sort of world view,which makes everything so
(25:10):
regular and, clockwork technofantasy.
And that's really supercomfortable if you, you know,
you don't think you have anycontrol of the world. And I I
adopted that sort of frame as anunderstanding. And as a part of
that frame, spirits don't exist,and a part of that frame also
says that, you can't getpossessed. That's just, you
(25:30):
know, what they put in themovies. That's totally untrue
because we we all get possessedall the time to different
degrees and also to differentagreements.
And revoking those contractsactually is a really healthy way
to, get better in the world andget better with yourself, but I
didn't believe that that waspossible. And and one experience
(25:52):
I had with possession changed mecompletely, and, I had an
unfortunate incident with anencounter with a what you would
call an evil sort of shaman inByron Bay that attacked me and
loaded me up with some spiritsthat were relentless in their
perpetual attacks upon my psycheand my experience in the world.
(26:16):
And in doing so, that made merealize that, well, true
possession is really horribleand awful, and, you no longer
really want it at that sort ofovert level.
Wendy (26:26):
What was the experience like? Like, how did you know
something was
CeeJay (26:30):
How did I know? Okay. So there's a big story to this. So
I'll I'll try and make it short,because it is a long one. So I'm
living in Byron Bay at the time,and I'd been to a music
festival, and and I'd been outall night.
And I'd sort of missed my myride for the way home at that
stage, and I thought, well,look, I'll just walk home. And
(26:51):
it was a hot, hot, hot summer'snight. I think it was, early
January in 1999. And all I'vegot on is a pair of jeans. It
was a pretty wild sort of party.
And
Wendy (27:08):
Okay.
CeeJay (27:09):
Yeah.
Wendy (27:10):
I guess that's another story for another time.
CeeJay (27:12):
That is another story. And I'm walking back from where
I am to where I was going to.That's, like, 45 kilometers
distance. So I'm thinking I canwalk that way. I'm barefoot, but
I can I can do that, which whichis, you know, not rational, but
that's what I thought at thetime?
Wendy (27:28):
Okay.
CeeJay (27:30):
And I'm walking along the road that leads out of Byron
Bay towards the freeway. And ifyou know the area, there's one
big petrol station there or gasstation, you would say, on the
right hand side as you'rewalking away from Byron Bay. And
I I can see, like, this road isempty. There's nothing for many
like, a couple of kilometerseasily. And it's flat.
(27:51):
Totally flat. Yeah. And as I'mwalking up to this petrol
station or gas station, I Inoticed that suddenly there's a
couple of people sitting on thecurb near it. I'm thinking,
what's going on here? I didn'tsee those people before, and
suddenly they're there.
And as I go up, I see a mansitting with a boy. The boy runs
off, and this man is sittingthere. And he looks at me, and
(28:15):
he says, Christopher Columbus,you're on your travels, for this
evening, and I know it's yourSaturn return, which it was. And
I'm here to talk to you aboutyour life. Would you like to
smoke a joint with me?
And he pulled his fingers apart,and there's a joint in it like
he just magic it in the in thespace right there. I'm like, and
(28:36):
I looked at it and I went, whatis going on? And I said, no. No.
No.
No. No. I don't need to doanything very much.
Wendy (28:44):
I'm good.
CeeJay (28:44):
And he says, but we have some really good conversations
to be had. And I said, yeah. II'm totally good. Let's just
forget about it. Look.
I I just wanna go home. Youknow, I've had a big day. I'm
just refusing this this guy, andhe says, well, I'll I'll catch
you later. I'm walking alongthis road, and a couple of cars
do pass me and but I look back,and he's gone. I'm thinking, is
(29:05):
that real?
I don't know. I'm just not sure.And I get to the end of the
road, which in those days, thethere was a big crossroads there
and a street light. And I wokeup, and I see the guy standing
there. I'm like, this has gottabe that guy that's back there.
Like, what is going on here? Youknow? And I walk up to him, and
(29:29):
he says, Christopher Columbus,you're here again. Let's have a
conversation. I'm like, oh god.
Okay. I figured this must bemeant to be. I'm gonna go along
with this. And he says, look. Myname is Dennis, and I'm here to
work with you tonight.
And as you can see here, I'vegot one clubfoot. And he's
(29:49):
showing it to me like it's animportant thing for me to
notice. And so I said, alright.And he goes, can you get a stick
for me so I can walk moreeasily? I said, okay.
So I grabbed this found a stickfor him, and I gave him a stick.
And then I said, well, I'm goingto Myokum. I'm going this way.
I'm gonna cross over thesefields. I'm gonna cut across
there to where I do where I'vegotta go.
(30:12):
He said, just by chance, that'swhere I'm going. And
Wendy (30:15):
Yeah. Right.
CeeJay (30:16):
Okay. Okay. And I thought, okay. Look. I'm I'm
gonna just walk along withScott.
I'm not sure if I trust thisperson whatsoever. Now I hadn't
had a drink of water forprobably about 3 or 4 hours. I
was dying of thirst at thisstage. And he said, look, you're
really thirsty. And I'm like,how's he doing?
(30:36):
And he said, just down there issome water. And I can see the
creek, and I'm thinking, I don'tknow how good this creek is.
Yeah. And and I said, okay. Hesaid, look down the water.
The water down there is good,but you gotta do like, you've
gotta cup your hands togetherand push it apart to get past
(30:57):
all the oil on top because ofall the Jesus. The camp because
the camphor well, it's camphorlaurels. It's the camphor
laurels trees put oil on top toactually
Wendy (31:05):
Oh, okay.
CeeJay (31:05):
I thought it was petrochemical. Not necessary
yeah. No. No. Not necessarilybad.
But, so I got a drink of waterfrom that that creek, and I
thought, I it actually wasn't sobad. I feel better for that. I
must trust this man because, youknow, you know, relationally, it
made sense. So we startedwalking across the fields. And
over a period of 2 to 3 hours,we were talking, and I realized
(31:33):
that he's doing well, like, as Iunderstand a bit of he's doing
confusion technique and puttingspells upon me.
And I didn't realize this at thetime that they were spells, but
later on as I understood moreabout how magic works, it became
obvious to me what he would whathe had done. And I found that
these spells had made an impactupon me that I felt like I was
(31:57):
buzzing at a differentfrequency, and I could feel this
this energy inside me that Icould not explain. And I knew
that this guy was probably crazyand not really good for me, and
I also knew that I had to getaway. But then the strange thing
is he was also very helpful insome ways because he was telling
(32:19):
me stuff about my life that Icouldn't. There's no way this
guy would have known.
I've never seen this person inmy life, but he's telling me
about my life.
Wendy (32:26):
Did you give him permission to kind of read you
or or he was just doing it asyou were having a conversation?
CeeJay (32:32):
He was just doing it. But at one stage, he did did
something that was really odd.He had held up his his pinky
finger with a ring on it. I'mlike, I don't even remember now
today to to this day what thatring had on it. But he said,
you're meant to remember me.
You are to recognize me by this.And he shows it to me like it's
a warning. I'm thinking, whatdoes that mean? And I don't know
what it means. But it did occurto me that, when I went back in
(32:56):
my journal that about 8 monthsbefore, I had seen a psychic,
and she said, you're going tohave an encounter on this date
January next year.
And it will be with an evilshaman, and this is the way
you'll recognize him. You mustrun away from that man.
Wendy (33:12):
Did you remember that at the time?
CeeJay (33:14):
No. I did not. I did not remember that at the time, so it
was to my, detrimentdramatically. So I had this
encounter with this guy. He'sputting spells on me, and he
introduced introducing these 2entities into me.
I don't know how he did that,but, at the time, he was using,
like, a technique where he wouldpoint at me and pull a string on
(33:37):
his arm while pointing at my,chakras, saying things in a
different language. I didn'tknow what it was. And in doing
that, I became severelypossessed, but I didn't know
that at the time. It actuallywas something that was sound
like a like a buzzing sort offeeling at first. You You know,
this this whole night wasn'tstrange discussions, and,
eventually, I got away from thisperson because I thought, no.
(33:57):
You're damn crazy, and I'mtotally crazy like you. And, I
got home and to where I wasstaying with some other friends
who were locals and told themabout what happened. They said,
oh, you gotta watch out. There'sevil shamans around this time of
year. Like, well, I'll probablyjust encounter 1.
It was good that they knew whatthat was all that was about. And
sitting inside their house, andeveryone's trying to look after
me because I'd actually walkedso far that I injured my feet,
(34:19):
and they put, comfrey. Theysmashed up some comfrey they had
in the in the yard into a mortwith a mortar pestle and put all
over my feet to recover my feet,which was good, and, looked
after me generally. But I didnotice that whatever it was was
inside me was also starting tomanifest itself. My first
inkling of that was they said,look.
You've had no sleep. You'veyou've gotta rest. You've gotta
(34:40):
rest. Just go in this room hereand go to sleep. And as I was
trying to go to sleep, everytime I tried to stop all the
noise around me, that everythingaround me in reality started to
get louder, and people startedto fight in the next room and
shuffle furniture and do allcrazy stuff.
And I've ended up puttingfingers in my ears and and
humming just to to block it out.And, I could hear somebody just
(35:03):
as I was trying to block it outcompletely saying, hey. You
can't do that. It's just like,whatever it was was in me was
also manifesting reality aroundme at that stage. So the the
internal hours that they thatwere that were attacking me did
have control of reality aroundme at that same at that same
that same time.
And for a period of, I think, itwas about 3 and a half to 4
(35:26):
months where this was at itspeak, that happened all the
time, which was reallydisconcerting. So I found with
these beings inside me, theywere continuously attempting to,
undermine my experience ofreality by creating events
around me and interactions withpeople which were negative, to
(35:48):
put it plainly. Yeah.
Wendy (35:51):
To what end do you think?
CeeJay (35:52):
The end is to try and kill me. That was that's pretty
much the plain the plain thingthey that they wanted was for me
to become so upset with my worldand so depressed that I would
end up taking my life. I wasn'tgonna go there, and I knew that
what was happening was this I'veyou know, for the first time in
my life, I really realized whatpossession was, and this was
(36:14):
obviously it. Because I had myrational mind, which was at the
front, and then I'd have thesehad these 2 other entities,
which would pop in and cause allsorts of havoc. And they were
obviously not me, and I didn'tfeel them as me.
I just knew they were separatethings which were in me. And,
it's quite a journey. I ended upgetting them out of my system by
(36:37):
several sort of things. It tooka lot of discovery to get there.
And part of that discovery, Iended up moving out of that
house to, my own shack inanother place up in Western
Mullumbimby, New South Wales,called Main Arm.
When I was in that shack, Istarted forcibly doing
meditation again because thatwas one of the things that
(36:58):
actually seemed to help. Theydidn't like that at all. It
actually made them go to sleep,it seemed at times, and I could
actually do some peace. Andanother shaman popped in and
started talking to me.
Wendy (37:10):
From the dream time Yep. Or in the physical reality?
CeeJay (37:13):
From the dream time. From the dream
Wendy (37:14):
time. Okay.
CeeJay (37:15):
Yeah. That's the way I put it to. And at first, I was
thinking, okay. So I'mpossessed, but I'm also got
another being that's popped upto say hello. This is you know,
my world is weird.
But it seems like I was totallyokay with it because I was like,
well, okay. Maybe this being ishere to help. And he said, yeah.
I'm definitely here to help. Andto put it clearly, this was a
(37:37):
Mexican shaman.
He had a Mexican accent speakingin English to me, and he had a
really cracking sense of humor.So, it was great to actually
have someone that was actuallyhappy that was working with me
at that stage, and he didn'tever give me his name, but, he
told me a path to take. And thepart of that path was to make it
(37:58):
really super obvious. He said,you have to drink your your
urine. And I said, what?
Wendy (38:04):
Yeah. No kidding.
CeeJay (38:06):
And I said, why? And he said it's for balancing your
your brain chemistry becausethey need your brain chemistry
out of whack to keep you. Isaid, right. And I said, okay.
How do I do it?
How do I do this? You know? Andhe said, you gotta first thing
in the morning is your besttime, and it's the the best
(38:27):
quality of liquid, and you takeyour midstream. I was like, k. I
said, sure.
And I said, you put that into acontainer, and then when the sun
comes over the horizon, you lookup at the sun, and you you drink
it right then. I said, okay.
Wendy (38:40):
Was it a onetime deal, or did you have to do it for No.
CeeJay (38:43):
I had to do it for months.
Wendy (38:45):
Oh, wow.
CeeJay (38:46):
But I'll I'll tell you what I'll tell you what
happened. So it
Wendy (38:49):
Okay. Please. Yeah.
CeeJay (38:50):
The the first time I did it, I was like, okay. This is
this is wild. I'm doingsomething that's totally against
anything I understand. It wasreally hard the first 3 or 4
times. And then after, I waslike, well, I'm used to this
now.
I'm gonna do it. So I think Istarted it on, like, a Monday or
a Tuesday. So by Thursday, hesaid, look. I've got a I've got
a surprise for you. And I said,what?
And he said, you've gotta go tothe local community hall this
(39:14):
Sunday. There's a there's a booksale on there, and there's a
book there for you. I was like,I didn't know anything about
this because I hadn't been outfor a long time. So I go down
there on the Sunday, and therewas a book sale on. And I walk
around in the books, and hesays, this one this one.
He's pointing like, he'smentally pointing me towards 1.
I went over and I pick it up.And it's a book on urine
(39:37):
therapy, you know, an Ayurvedicbook on urine therapy.
Wendy (39:41):
I had heard that it is a therapeutic device used in
India. Yeah. So Ayurvedic yeah.I I hadn't heard it it through
the Ayurvedic tradition, butthat would make sense. But,
yeah, like, that's aninteresting approach for what
you're saying is depossession.
CeeJay (39:59):
Well, it was it was for me, and and picking up that book
and reading, and I was like,okay. So this being that I'm
talking with that's got medrinking my own wee actually has
a grounding. You know, there isa story in this, and it actually
is a true story. And, obviously,this has been practiced for 1000
of years, and it must work. SoI'll keep it up.
(40:21):
During that period of 3 months,I kept it up. The spirits kept
on attacking me and trying toget back in and getting a deeper
hold of me, and they couldn't.It's like they faded away, and
all their external effects whichwas, manifesting in reality
around me also faded away. Yeah.That's pretty much my story of
massive possession.
Wendy (40:42):
Okay. So why do you think this dentist guy chose you?
CeeJay (40:48):
I have no idea. I've gotta say I have no idea. I I
think I might have been justopen to it at the time. I don't
know.
Wendy (40:56):
Were you under the influence of anything when you
encountered him?
CeeJay (40:59):
I was coming off the influence of things.
Wendy (41:04):
Of things?
CeeJay (41:05):
Yes. It was I would just say it was a day that didn't
work out the way I thought itwould. Gotcha. Yeah. It's it's
like I'd cracked open somethingin myself at that stage.
So
Wendy (41:18):
Okay. So there was a a a vulnerability of sorts.
CeeJay (41:21):
Yeah. That's right. That's right. There was a
vulnerability of sorts.
Wendy (41:25):
Do you think that Dennis was do you think he was
physical, or do you think he wasnonmaterial?
CeeJay (41:33):
He was definitely physical, and I know that
because at one stage where wecome to a small stream, and he
says, look. You are the Christ.I have to carry you across the
stream. And I said, okay. That'sweird.
And he got down on his knees,and he said, jump on my
shoulders. I jumped on hisshoulders, and he carried me
(41:55):
across the stream.
Wendy (41:56):
On his shoulders? Not on his back?
CeeJay (41:58):
On on his shoulders.
Wendy (42:01):
That must have been his sight, but a guy with a club
foot and a stick carrying youacross water.
CeeJay (42:06):
Yeah. Well, I mean, the stream was, like, maybe a foot
wide, but it was
Wendy (42:10):
Oh, oh, okay.
CeeJay (42:12):
It was for him, it was metaphorical. So
Wendy (42:15):
I see. Okay. But it sounds like he was also trying
to plant an idea of you're achosen one or you are Yeah. I
see. Special being.
CeeJay (42:23):
Yeah. A lot of so that's sort of
Wendy (42:26):
What a trippy experience.
CeeJay (42:28):
Oh, god. I don't recommend it.
Wendy (42:32):
Yeah. And and it sounds like your meditation practice
really helped
CeeJay (42:36):
Massively. Massively helped.
Wendy (42:38):
Pull you out of that experience. Yeah. Yeah. That's
quite a story. Do you I mean,you had mentioned that people
said, oh, yeah.
There are evil shamans that comeout at this time.
CeeJay (42:49):
They've ex must have experienced them before. So,
yeah, the people I lived withwere pretty like a shamanic
family as it was. So they knewthat there was these sort of
forces around this time.
Wendy (43:00):
Was Dennis was he an indigenous fellow? No.
CeeJay (43:05):
Dennis was actually Irish. I know. Right? I'm like
Alright. Sounding weird.
Irish or Scottish? I can't Idon't think it was Irish.
Wendy (43:17):
From the UK.
CeeJay (43:19):
Yeah. He was he was from overseas, and he did have an
accent. And he was in as a partof pulling up his his pants leg
to show me his club foot, he didactually also say that, you
know, you'll notice this isthese are really good quality
tweed wool trousers. It's like,okay. But if I'm asked.
Wendy (43:40):
Yeah. Well, that's helpful. Thanks for thanks for
that information, man.
CeeJay (43:44):
Thanks for that detail.
Wendy (43:45):
And you were probably mightily impressed, right, with
the quality
CeeJay (43:48):
of the
Wendy (43:49):
trousers. Yeah.
CeeJay (43:50):
That's I thought it was just odd. Like, because that but
my whole day had been odd, soit's like, it can't get any odd
up, but it did.
Wendy (43:58):
But it did.
CeeJay (43:58):
Yes. It
Wendy (43:59):
did. He's like, I'll I'll take that oddness, and I will
Yeah. I will double it, tripleit.
CeeJay (44:06):
Yes. Yes.
Wendy (44:10):
Well, I'm glad you got through that. I'm glad you
figured that out. And I find itfascinating that you were able
to navigate that territory onyour own, that you were able to
because of your own practice.
CeeJay (44:22):
Well, I mean, it wasn't only on my own. I did have that,
Mexican Shabbat that did help methrough. There were other
spirits.
Wendy (44:28):
No. But, I mean, he helped you, but he was part of
your spiritual practice. He yousaid he was in the dream time.
He came to you in yourmeditations or he came to you in
the physical?
CeeJay (44:38):
He well, I wasn't meditating at the time. It just
turned up as an extra spiritentity that started talking to
me in my head
Wendy (44:46):
Okay. Alright.
CeeJay (44:47):
Plainly. So to me, it was like because I'm I have
times when I'm severely open tocontact, and spirits can come up
and talk to me. And depending onwhether they're good or not,
I'll talk to them.
Wendy (44:57):
And how do you discern that?
CeeJay (44:59):
I can just tell and feel feel it. Yeah. When you carry a
lot of light, I think thatactually actually does act as a
bit of barriers that thenegative ones don't really get a
chance to come in.
Wendy (45:10):
Not like a beacon?
CeeJay (45:11):
There still can be a beacon. But, I find that for
myself, I I have a lot ofprotection on my side. So I
think I'm I'm pretty well good.I mean, occasionally, I get
possessed. So, but like smallpossessions, like, say,
different plant medicines ormaybe chocolate.
Wendy (45:29):
Or I can definitely relate to the chocolate.
CeeJay (45:32):
Yeah. Or a terrible TV series.
Wendy (45:37):
I never considered that possession. I just consider that
a nice escape.
CeeJay (45:41):
Well, escape is possession, isn't it? Like, you
know, this being distracted?
Wendy (45:44):
According to your definition of it, yeah. I guess
it is. I mean, I see that assomebody who's does intense work
and is an intense person myselfYes. And very sensitive on top
of it. It's like diving into astory helps it gives me reprieve
CeeJay (46:01):
from Oh, for sure. For sure. You gotta pick the right
stories though, I think.
Wendy (46:04):
Yeah. Well yeah. I mean, I probably don't do that,
CeeJay (46:08):
but whatever the rush is. I don't think any of us
does. That dude, that's whythat's why I was saying it.
Wendy (46:14):
Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. So what's your relationship like
then with fear?
CeeJay (46:18):
Don't have fear, but during that time that I had that
possession, I experiencedabsolute horror and, was
overwhelming and and wasterrifying all the time, which
was really awful. So when I wasin that possession, I didn't
know I didn't know fear properlyuntil I had that. And, it was
well, to put a playmate, it'slike the the biblical fire and
(46:39):
brimstone coming down on youcontinuously. You just felt
like, like, I felt like everymoment was gonna be something
horrible happening. That's howawful it was.
Wendy (46:49):
That sounds terrible.
CeeJay (46:50):
Yeah. It was. Yeah. So three and a half months of that.
Wendy (46:53):
Like, you're waiting for the the other shoe to drop all
the time.
CeeJay (46:56):
All the time. Because that's how they they triggered
sort of chemistry in me to tohave that sort of thing. Because
you think about it, these beingsare drinking like there's no
tomorrow. They really, reallyenjoy what they call the loush,
I think it is, which is like anenergy for the force, and they
get that out of you throughextreme emotion. And when they
(47:16):
do that, they get rewarded.
Wendy (47:17):
Oh, I yeah. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah.
CeeJay (47:19):
Comes up in, a lot of the reductions for the circles
and but, yeah. So that's theiraim, I think, is to actually get
a lot of energy out of you. Andin doing so, fear is probably
the best one. That's that's, Ithink, the one of the best ones
to
Wendy (47:33):
Oh, yeah. No. That's it's an effective tool for anyone to
use against someone else.
CeeJay (47:39):
Yeah. When people are in fear states, they don't make
clear decisions, do they? Sothey just, yeah, narrow focus.
Wendy (47:45):
No. And I think that is kind of where we're collectively
at is in a place of fear.
CeeJay (47:51):
Well, I think they tried their best on in the last little
while, but I think more peopleare waking up because of it.
It's like, does the world haveto be like this? Do we have to
listen to these idiots?
Wendy (48:02):
I don't think so. Yeah. I certainly hope so. Absolutely.
Yeah.
I still see us as all verycollectively lost, again, with
all of that noise. But I'm I'mnoticing that more and more
folks seem to be it's almostlike it's the volume is getting
turned up so high that thediscomfort that people are
(48:22):
feeling is getting so intensethat they're just like, make it
stop. What do I need to do tomake this stop? And asking that
question
CeeJay (48:32):
Yeah. People are looking for a Skype.
Wendy (48:33):
Well, yeah. Because we have that external thing, so
they're going externally. Sowhat do I need? Antidepressants,
antianxiety medication, sleepmedication?
CeeJay (48:41):
Yeah. A
Wendy (48:42):
lot of people seem to be leaning towards more spiritual
avenues to to investigate what'sgoing on within themselves
because maybe they triedeverything else and it doesn't
seem to be
CeeJay (48:53):
Yeah. I think so.
Wendy (48:54):
Settling what's going on inside of them.
CeeJay (48:56):
True. True.
Wendy (48:58):
But, yeah, I I'd have to say in the last, yeah, the last
year, it's like almost everybodyI'm working with is in crisis, a
crisis of some sort.
CeeJay (49:08):
Yeah. I would say that. I mean, talking to people around
me and whatever it is in theAstra, whether that's causing
it, but, it's like everyone hashad, like, a for 2,023, for
example, everyone has hadongoing catastrophe, but also
amazing stuff too. So it's like
Wendy (49:28):
Yeah. No. There's that side as well. You're right.
CeeJay (49:32):
So I don't know. I'm I'm enjoying everything. It's like
this is a I've just been througha disaster here where I live,
and and, I just look at it aslike an opportunity for
enjoyment. There's another wayto enjoy things. You just gotta
go, okay.
Well, this is where we are now.This is where we are now. Things
aren't exactly as it used to be,but there is still a way to
(49:56):
enjoy everything because this isthe life that we chose. This is
the life that we chose. It's nothorrible.
It's not terrible. I mean, thereis events that happen in that,
but not every moment is. So behere now. Be in this moment.
What have you got?
Do you have gratitude for that?That's that's the important
thing, I think.
Wendy (50:16):
And what if it's all is a dream?
CeeJay (50:20):
God. That a part of us
Wendy (50:23):
is dreaming into existence.
CeeJay (50:26):
Yeah. For sure. There is does seem like it it does seem
like that at times for sure and,stronger at other times than
others.
Wendy (50:34):
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that's how I kind of make
sense of things right nowanyway. But
CeeJay (50:40):
Mhmm. Yeah. It does. I mean, it does have that dream
logic, doesn't it? That's why wehave all this sort of these
twists and turns and and, plotchanges.
Wendy (50:47):
It's like, what? Now? This is crazy. Yeah.
CeeJay (50:51):
Yeah. Yeah. It's gold on acid.
Wendy (50:53):
So what do you I mean, you you don't do any kind of I
mean, this is just your own solopractice and your podcast is
just about exploringotherworldly events and people
who
CeeJay (51:06):
Yes.
Wendy (51:07):
Do healing work and have had experiences and
CeeJay (51:10):
That's right.
Wendy (51:10):
So you're basically you're just sharing information.
You're not offering services topeople, or are you?
CeeJay (51:18):
No. No. I should.
Wendy (51:21):
If you if you did, what would you offer?
CeeJay (51:23):
If I did, I would offer divination services because I do
psychic work and I do tarotwork. In a pinch, I could do
some astrology, like transitreadings and stuff like that as
well. I wouldn't say I'm anexpert at that. But, from what I
hear from other astrologists,that's how it always feels in
the start, so don't worry aboutit. So
Wendy (51:43):
How about guidance on urine therapy?
CeeJay (51:45):
Oh, no. I'd I'd be I'm happy to talk to people about
that if they wanna try that. Imean, that's fine. Yeah.
Wendy (51:52):
I'm asking because if anyone is listening and they're
intrigued by what you've had tosay.
CeeJay (51:57):
Well, look look, there is ways to like, I'd I'd be
totally willing to talk topeople about their understanding
or position, or if they'reactually going through stuff to
if they wanna reach out and andtalk about how they can get
through it, totally fine withtalking with people about that.
That's I'd be happy to helppeople get out of their their
loops if they want to or try tohelp them or point them in
(52:20):
directions, that may help themfor sure.
Wendy (52:22):
So what what's the best way to get a hold of you?
CeeJay (52:25):
Best way to get a hold of me directly is to write to me
on email at supernormalized witha zed, at proton.me, and that's
my main email address for all ofthis sort of work. Otherwise,
yeah, actually, just we'll justleave it at that. It's probably
just just best to go straight tothat email.
Wendy (52:45):
Okay.
CeeJay (52:45):
And then if you wish to listen to my podcast too, get
out of mind, I'd like to plugthat. And, yeah, that's just
I should say. Yeah. Let's makeit nice and simple.
Wendy (52:57):
And on any platform where you listen to podcasts, I
imagine.
CeeJay (53:01):
That's right. Yeah. It's on every podcast platform. Then
just type in supernormalized,and you'll find me.
Wendy (53:06):
Alright. Excellent. Well, this has this has been quite a
conversation.
CeeJay (53:11):
Yeah. For sure. I still think we've got more to say,
Wendy.
Wendy (53:15):
Are we not done yet? We have more yeah. I'm sure there's
always stuff we could talkabout. Absolutely.
CeeJay (53:20):
Yeah. For sure. For sure. Thank you so much for
having me on your show, andthanks so much for coming on my
show again.
Wendy (53:26):
Yeah. No. Thank you.
CeeJay (53:27):
Our time.
Wendy (53:28):
Yeah. No. It was it was a lot of fun. Yeah.
CeeJay (53:30):
Maybe maybe there's a part 3. We'll see.
Wendy (53:32):
We'll see. Let's see if maybe people, give us feedback,
and they wanna hear more.
CeeJay (53:36):
Yeah. That's right. Give us some feedback if you like it.
That's right. It's a good idea.
Wendy (53:41):
But not if you don't.
CeeJay (53:45):
Actually, I don't mind if people don't. I mean, if I
don't like it and tell us,because then I know, like, well,
that didn't work or Tell useverything. Tell us the truth.
Wendy (53:53):
Well, yeah, I'll I'll get behind that.
CeeJay (53:55):
Yeah.
Wendy (53:55):
Just don't be mean about it.
CeeJay (53:56):
No. No. Don't don't be mean. That's boring. Yeah.
Wendy (53:59):
That's boring. It's also mean.
CeeJay (54:03):
Yeah. True.
Wendy (54:05):
Alright, sir. Well, thank you so much.
CeeJay (54:07):
Thank you too, Wendy.
Wendy (54:11):
There's a lot to unpack there. I really appreciate CJ's
honesty and his willingness toshare his experience with me and
now you. As he was talking, Iwas thinking about what it must
be like to hear about hisexperience. And I think the
downside of sharing stories likeCJ's is that it can make you, as
(54:31):
a listener, feel powerless towhat he's referring to as dark
or unsavory forces out there inthe universe. If you've listened
to me talk about my thoughts onevil and dark forces in other
episodes, you already know thatI don't quite see things the
same way as CJ.
And I'm not saying that what heexperienced wasn't real, but
(54:54):
what I've learned over theyears, right or wrong, is that
your worldview can't help butinfluence how you make sense of
things that don't make sense. Soif hearing CJ's story ramped up
your fear, please know that youare an innately powerful person
with a lot of agency with howyou think and what you believe
(55:14):
and subsequently how you makesense of things. And like I said
at the end of our conversation,maybe this life we're living is
really just all a dream, ormaybe you're thinking that I'm
just naive or really lucky thatwhat happened to CJ hasn't
happened to me. The truth isthere are disturbing experiences
I've had. I'm thinking of 1 inparticular where I did frame
(55:37):
what happened in a similar wayto CJ and remember how powerless
and vulnerable I felt as aresult.
I look back on that time now andsee the experience much
differently. As the Hawaiianssay, the world is what you think
it is. And when you really,really contemplate what that
means, it's an immenselypowerful thing. So, I'll leave
(56:01):
you with that. Do with itwhatever you like.
So thank you so very much forlistening. I hope the rest of
your day is crazy peaceful andreally fun. Until next time.
You're listening to Lucid Cafe. I'm your host, Wendy
Halley. Hey. Thanks for joiningme for another episode of Lucid
(00:34):
Cafe. A podcast exploringhealing, consciousness, and the
complexities of being human.
Well, speaking of thosecomplexities, today's episode is
kind of a perfect example of howchallenging being human can be
at times. So this is part 2 of apod swap I did with CeeJay
Barnaby, who's the host of thepodcast Super Normalized, Where
(00:59):
part 1 focused primarily on myotherworldly experiences in
shamanic practice, This episodefocuses on CeeJay's experiences.
So if you listen to part 1, yougot a glimpse of his inner
world. Well, today, you're gonnaget a big and quite intimate
glimpse of how things haveplayed out in CeeJay's inner
(01:19):
world in a pretty dramatic way.So please enjoy part 2 of my
conversation with CeeJayBarnaby.
CeeJay (01:30):
Welcome to Supernormalize, Wendy Halley.
We're back for a secondinterview here. So, I'm very
looking forward to getting intoour discussion today, Wendy. And
as this is a bit of a sharedpodcast, maybe you wanted to
introduce me as well.
Wendy (01:45):
Yeah. Absolutely. We have CeeJay Barnaby with us, and it's
such an unusual thing to bedoing 2 podcasts at the same
time. So
CeeJay (01:59):
I'm trying to get used to it too.
Wendy (02:02):
Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with
me. I really appreciate it.
CeeJay (02:06):
Yeah. Thank you too. I really appreciate coming back
for a second interview here, andI'm looking forward to seeing
what comes out because we had alot to say last time. We were
like, at the end we were like ,let's do this again.
Wendy (02:15):
So here we are. And so here we are. Absolutely. Yeah.
Alright. So, CeeJay, why don'tyou tell me a little bit about,
like, where is your head atthese days as far as your
perspective on the world and howyou make sense of things?
CeeJay (02:31):
How I make sense of things? Okay. So I like to see
the way the world sort ofinforms me through information
that gets presented to me. It'slike I'm in a continuous
dialogue with reality, and Ihave this sort of open sort of
vision and an open sort ofcosmology that allows me to be
(02:53):
able to hear and be able to beaware of, say, intuitions that,
point me in certain directionsor information that I need to
get my eyes across. And I thinkthat comes about from my
meditation practice, which I Itry to do at least once or twice
every day without fail, becausethat actually opens me up to
(03:13):
having more of an intuitive sortof way in the world.
And my intuition comes in theform of either, like, ideas or
seeing something, say, anywhere,like in the media or anywhere
that just seems to grab myattention. And the way that sort
(03:34):
of informs me, guides me on a ona path, and I and I seem to be
to know the right path most ofthe time, not all the time. I
mean, sometimes I get distractedand thrown around a bit, but,
most of the time I try to keepeverything pretty clear and on
sort of some some sort of focusthat allows me to keep a
connection to what I would callinfinite reality. Because, there
(03:56):
does seem to be some sort ofconcerted effort at distraction
in our reality nowadays. And Ithink keeping a clear focus or
keeping a clear understanding ofwhere you are going in life and
how you can change to yourbenefit is and then the benefit
(04:16):
of others because, you know, youhave to, you know, be the change
that you wanna see in the worldand really, embrace that.
I think that's an importantthing to do. So for me, that
seems to be as a big a big partof me, and I I stick with that
and try to keep that up as apart of my personal cosmology in
(04:37):
the everyday.
Wendy (04:38):
Okay. You mentioned, and I'm trying to remember the exact
words you used, that there's aneffort to distract us.
CeeJay (04:46):
Yes.
Wendy (04:47):
What do you mean by that?
CeeJay (04:48):
Okay. Imagine okay. There seems to be, like, from my
from my perspective of of myexperiences that there is a
there's many creative forces ormany sort of forces in the
universe, in our universe, ourenvironmental sort of
experience. And some of thoseforces are towards the pure
(05:09):
creative and enhancement ofunderstanding and experience in
the world and of the world. Andthen there's others which are
all like distraction,dissection, and they are, like,
sort of negative credit sort offorce.
So one could be love based andthe other could be the opposite
(05:30):
of love based, not necessarilyhate, but it could be this
distraction. So it stops youfrom really focusing on the pure
authenticity of being here andexperiencing from the absolute
truth rather than the masks thatwe put upon the truth of what
is.
Wendy (05:46):
Okay. You make it sound as though it's an intentional
thing.
CeeJay (05:49):
Yeah. For sure.
Wendy (05:51):
And so who or what would you suggest is intending it?
CeeJay (05:55):
I haven't figured that out yet.
Wendy (05:58):
Just a just a small question, a light question.
CeeJay (06:01):
Okay. So there there seems to be from my experience I
mean, I've been lucky in someways because I've had
experiences with plant medicineswhere the spirits that have come
to me have always been reallysuper helpful. And I would say,
like, goading me towardspersonal growth and enhancement.
(06:21):
But there has been times whenI've been literally that's
wanted to say it's like distractI mean, I've gotta say
distracted because those itseems like a distraction every
single time. It's like you couldyou have in every single moment,
there's this choice that couldcome from your decision.
You know, it could be in onedirection or it could be in
another direction. And everysingle one of those is a door
(06:42):
opening and, like, an openingtowards truth or an opening
towards distraction. And if youchoose the trip path of truth
all the time, it's I mean, it'sa conscious effort to actually
keep it going, then you'reopening the portals towards
authenticity and a greaterconnection to the world and a
greater connection to nature andand the environment and everyone
(07:03):
and everything around you. Butif you tell you the truth is the
other direction, you actuallystart shutting that down. And,
yeah, I've had times in my lifewhere I have shut that down.
And one of those times wasintentionally just to see what
would happen, and other timeshas been because I had
experiences of possession to tovarying degrees. And possession
is is anything that that takesyour attention more than it
(07:27):
should. And and it seems like alot of the social media and
everything that we see around usin the way of divisiveness in
the media and amongst people isa form of distraction. That is
that, taking away from thetruth.
Wendy (07:43):
I think you've hit on something extremely important.
It's something I talk about alot. I've been wondering about
this. I mean, I think about thisa lot, the whole distraction
piece. I think culturally, mostthese are just my my thoughts.
I'm curious what you think ofthem, at least my thoughts as of
today. Okay. That culturally,kind of in a universal way, sort
(08:07):
of this Western cultureperspective, We have a very
external focus. In other words,we're-- it's all about the
external world and that we'retrying to organize and put in
order the things in our externalworld so that our internal world
will feel better. There's not alot of internal focus.
Right? And and I think that'swhy meditation seems like such a
(08:29):
novel thing when it actuallyprobably should be just the norm
and probably how we should beleading our lives. But our focus
is very externalized and it doesit to me, I I look at it as like
a byproduct of our culturalworldview.
CeeJay (08:43):
Definitely. Colonialized mind.
Wendy (08:46):
Exactly. Precisely. Yeah. So because we have maybe a lack
of a relationship with ourinternal world, I think the
byproduct of that is a lot ofnoise. So a lot of mental noise,
a lot of emotional noise.
CeeJay (09:02):
Exactly.
Wendy (09:03):
And because of all that noise, it's really hard to tap
into the spiritual side of youbecause you have to kind of sort
through all of that shit to beable to get to your intuition,
that higher guidance, thosefeelings of bliss that you can
you can tap into on occasion. Asyou were talking about this
external force kind of causingdistraction, showing up through
(09:25):
social media and advertisementsand the media in general and
just who's doing what becausewe're interested. Not really.
But Yeah. Yeah.
Maybe we're just very nosy. Idon't know. That's the social
media world. But if thatinternal noise is actually for
(09:47):
people who are sensitive, I'mtrying to find a way I don't
think I've ever articulated thisout loud, so I'm struggling to
put it into words. But it's kindof like, why wouldn't our
internal noise be external too?
So, like, when you're trying totap into that level of reality,
it's like you're having to sortthrough everybody's noise that's
(10:09):
kind of populating the planet.It sounds so dramatic, but,
really, I mean, thoughts andfeelings are frequency, are
energy. Right? So, of course,energy isn't contained inside
your body. It's going to travelthroughout the energetic realm.
Mhmm. And so if the energeticrealm if, like, you're tapping
(10:30):
into that through yourmeditation on your way to
shamanic trance, you have to getthrough all of that noise
CeeJay (10:38):
Yes.
Wendy (10:38):
In order to get to this other place. Right? And if
you're noisy already and you'retrying to get through every
other people's noise, it's likeit's like, yeah, extra hard and
frustrating. And I notice itwhen I'm doing shamanic work
with folks in that if someonehas a lot of disruption in their
interior world, it's really hardfor me to make my way through
(11:03):
all of that noise in order toget to
CeeJay (11:05):
Yep.
Wendy (11:06):
What I need to perceive for my folks, my invisible
friends to do the healing work,at least for me to understand
what it is that they're doing.But, anyway, blah blah blah, all
of that. Any thoughts on any ofthat stuff I was just saying?
CeeJay (11:18):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So, yeah, the the the noise that
actually is, internalized, Iactually would say even well, if
we take it to the to the mundanedegree of, say, the secret, you
know, people will say, you know,the secret manifest everything,
you know, by your will, which isquite, to put a plainly, Crowley
and the Alema type based sort ofmagic. We actually do manifest
reality around us from from ourinternal will.
(11:41):
And if your will is full ofdistraction and your will is
full of dissection type stories,you know, we are unfortunately
naturally colonized already inin our brain and our thinking
and our understanding of timeand categories.
Wendy (11:55):
Mhmm.
CeeJay (11:56):
When that ex that becomes externalized and you're
a really noisy person, thatturns into a life of drama and
disaster continuously. And I'veand I can say that because I've
I've actually experienced it. II had a partner, way back when,
and and her life was justdramatic all the time. And I
(12:17):
knew what was going on. It wasbecause of all the stuff that
she was carrying in herself, andit was so hard to work with.
But I vowed after that timeafter that experience, so that
relationship to really be more,understanding with people, but
also choose better partners.That's Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy (12:41):
Process of elimination. Alright. Now I know what doesn't
work.
CeeJay (12:44):
Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Wendy (12:45):
So it helps me find what will work. That is really what
dating is all about, I think.
CeeJay (12:50):
I think so. Yeah. But, bring it back around. Yeah. So
that that that noise doesmanifest in reality around you.
And so if you if you have a ifyou are a person that's, we just
say, caught up in multiple storyloops or, multiple
understandings, which aren'texactly you or aren't even truly
(13:11):
you, then you you pretty muchfeel like you're living life in
a pinball machine, andeverything's a quite a pain, and
it's really difficult. And it'sit's often feels like it's
nearly impossible to sort outwhen you're inside that. And, it
often does take a pattern breakto be able to see it for what it
is and to step back and go,okay. This isn't me, and these
(13:33):
aren't my stories. Who am I, andwhat do I want and need to live?
You know? And when you hit thatpoint, then things start to
change like it's karma becauseyou start to realize what you
need.
Wendy (13:47):
Okay. Well, you make it sound very simple.
CeeJay (13:50):
Well, I'm fine too. It's not that simple, but yeah.
Wendy (13:55):
I was gonna say, it's like once you realize it, it's I
think that's a a big struggle onanyone's path is once they start
wanting to be and do better Yes.They start paying attention to
what's getting in the way, andthen they find out, like, oh,
all of these stories, likeyou're saying, these these
narratives that I have playingout in my psyche are not serving
(14:17):
me. And it's like, well, nowthat I know that, now what?
Like, what's the true narrative?What's what's really if I'm not
the things that I think I am,then what how do I figure out
who I really am?
And so I don't know if you wentthrough a process like that, but
I'm curious if you don't mind,talking a bit about your
(14:38):
particular process of quietingthe noise.
CeeJay (14:43):
Okay. So quieting the noise, to me, I was actually
really good at it as as a child,and then I sort of left behind
my meditation practice that Ihave learned through my early
teens, and life was quite messybecause of that at the time and
also, you know, growing up in myteens. That's just typical. In
the end of my teens, I startedto recover it again, and I did
(15:05):
that through reading a book onpositive thinking, and that
helped me to sort of breakthrough at the time. I can't
remember the name of the book,right now because it's so long
ago.
And that helped me to breakthrough into an understanding of
what, I needed to do aboutmyself. And I started meditating
again, and I did so with aneffort. And what I mean by an
(15:26):
effort is I set up a practicefor myself where I say I'm doing
it this time every day, thistime every day. And the body
comes along for the ride at thatstage and goes, okay. Well, this
time every day, I'm just gonnastart letting go as well.
So you you do actually find thatit becomes a concerted effort of
the body and the mind when youset up a practice like that. And
for me, just the the point of ofmaking that that space for
(15:51):
myself allowed all of the loopsthat I was carrying at that time
to just break naturally. It'slike I wasn't allowing in them
to rule my life. And in breakingthose loops, it it allowed for
an expansion towards theinfinite. Because those loops
are sort of limiting in the waythey hold you in and hold and
(16:13):
when they're holding you inplace, they hold you in in mind.
They hold you in in patterns.You know? Not all of the
patterns are healthy. Not allthe patterns are unhealthy, but
they just are. But they arestill loops, and and breaking
those loops for me allowed meto, get more in touch with my
intuition.
And and then over time, thatallowed me to, again, connect
(16:35):
more to nature, connect more tothe nature of myself, my true
self, and what I really need andand who I really am, and that
helped me to, I'd say, groundground out, really. That's the
the ultimate the ultimategrounding. Yeah.
Wendy (16:53):
Nice. Well said. So you're saying that, primarily,
it's meditation that was thetool you used.
CeeJay (17:00):
Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Meditation was the main
tool I used for sure. I mean,what I was using other medicines
as well sometimes, butmeditation was the main key.
Wendy (17:09):
What kind of medicines?
CeeJay (17:11):
Psychedelics.
Wendy (17:12):
Oh, okay. Plant medicines. Psychedelics.
CeeJay (17:15):
And Yeah. Psychedelics. We're gonna say psychedelics.
Wendy (17:17):
Not not all not always plant medicines. So it could be
LSD or Yeah. Okay.
CeeJay (17:22):
But they're all done consciously. I should say that
too. It was it wasn't reallylike right. Recreational.
Wendy (17:25):
It wasn't recreational. Yeah.
CeeJay (17:27):
No. No. Because I didn't find recreational. Didn't really
do anything good for anyone, inthe end. And and it could be
fun, but then that doesn'treally help you.
You've actually gotta put effortinto what I would call a
ritualized practice of ofexperience. And when you do
that, it actually invites inother forces to help you on your
(17:48):
way, for sure.
Wendy (17:50):
I'm intrigued.
CeeJay (17:52):
Oh, okay.
Wendy (17:55):
Well, I wanna hear about other forces. But before we go
into that, I'd I'd love for youto describe what flavor of
meditation you practice.
CeeJay (18:03):
Oh, okay. I've talked to people and they say it's like a,
Vipassana slash transcendentalmeditation type style. What I do
is I I sit still either in anupright position on the floor or
an upright position in a chair.And in doing so, I, just allow
(18:23):
my body to relax, and I allow mymind to relax. And the thoughts
that are popping into my head, Ijust observe them and let them
pass, and I get to a certainpoint where I find a space
between everything.
And when I hit that spacebetween everything, I find at
that moment, all understandingstarts to get get abstract, and
(18:46):
my my hearing becomes abstract.I can't understand what I'm
hearing anymore. You know? Atfirst, those those sort of,
phenomenal effects were a bitsurprising, and I'd pop back in.
Yeah.
But once you get used to it andyour body gets used to it and
your mind gets used to it andalso the mind also realize that
this is a good thing and stopspresenting things to you, then,
(19:08):
yeah, you really hit the deepopen space. And, it's like time
traveling. You you get reallydeep, and in a moment, you're
coming out. It's like, well,it's a new day. So, yeah, that's
what I do.
Wendy (19:18):
Very cool. So it sounds like you were you were just
doing it intuitively. You werejust doing meditation the way
you wanted to do meditation orwhat made sense to you just to
quiet yourself.
CeeJay (19:35):
And I think when I talked about that last time,
when I was 4 or 5 years old, Iwas compelled to go across the
road to the forest from where welived. And, being the seventies,
I was loosely parented, so I wasallowed to walk across the, the
dirt road to the forest becausethere's no cars. So
Wendy (19:57):
So do you had latchkey kids in Australia too in the
seventies?
CeeJay (20:01):
Yeah. We're we're I was only 4 or 5, so my mother was
sitting on the balcony watching,but I she'd allowed me to go
across the forest because I wasso fascinated by it, and I had a
thing that I used to do.
Wendy (20:10):
Yeah. You you were very little when you did that. Okay.
CeeJay (20:13):
Yeah. Very, very little.
Wendy (20:14):
Didn't quite penetrate my brain. Okay. So you you go over
there?
CeeJay (20:18):
I go over there, and I walk across into the forest, and
I walked I walked into, like, alittle path. For me, it seemed
like I was walking a 100 meters,but, you know, I went back and
looked at it as an adult. It wasonly about 5 meters.
Wendy (20:30):
That's adorable.
CeeJay (20:31):
Yeah. And there was these rocks that I used to sit
on. And as a baby, I'd sit thereor a child or child, infant, I
should say. I'd sit there, andbeings would come to me from the
forest, and they were my friendsfrom on my memory of it. And,
they taught me how to meditate.
And the way they did that wasjust say, be still. And they
(20:52):
keep me, like, in a sort ofspace where I'd be still. And
then all of a sudden, the plantsaround me started to wiggle like
I'm underwater. And it wasbeautiful, and I loved it. And I
used to do go and do that asoften as I possibly could.
Wendy (21:07):
That's so cool.
CeeJay (21:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy (21:10):
Alright. So then going back to forces were helping you.
CeeJay (21:14):
That's right. You asked me about meditation. Yeah. So
these these beings told me howto meditate the first sort of
way. And then as I got older, Isort of forgot that method.
I didn't like, it it's it, like,it fell away because of all of
the social pressure. And what Imean by social pressure is that,
like, for what was normal for mewasn't normal for anyone around
me at all. So I had to sort ofshut down a lot of that sort of
(21:37):
communication with the spiritsthat I had at that stage. And
that didn't help me, and infact, it actually made things
worse for me in the world. And,it it left me with the it's like
a rift, in in my soul and myheart.
I actually felt a a yearning forthat connection to those spirits
again.
Wendy (21:54):
And there was, like, losing a limb.
CeeJay (21:55):
I didn't know what that was. It was. It was. Definitely
was. And and and it felt like Iwas a fish out of water when it
came to normal culture.
I was, I thought that what I wasexperiencing was normal. And
then when I discovered that itwasn't normal, I sort of put
pressure myself to be normal,and then I was thinking, well, I
mean, normal. These people areretarded by comparison. So, when
(22:18):
it comes to connection to theinfinite, it seemed like I had
something that I wish everyonehad, and I wanted to bring that
to them. Because that had beenthat became a part of my mission
in in my experiencing of theworld.
As I got older and I did recoverthat meditation practice, and
it's it's helped me immenselysince, I can tell you. It's
(22:39):
like, I I need to meditatebecause that actually, helps my
deeper connection to the world.
Wendy (22:46):
Do you think you kind of answered the other forces
question already? Do Do youthink you already addressed
that?
CeeJay (22:51):
The other forces question. So, yeah, we would say
that. Yeah. I mean, otherforces. I mean, we were talking
about other forces being bothpositive and negative.
I wanna actually touch on thenegative ones too because a lot
of people, from my understandingand my experience, when I talk
about them in the past, althoughI'm finding more people that
actually get it nowadays. Notall spirit entities or
(23:14):
disconnect or, entities areactually friendly or out to help
you. And you can invite them inthrough really ramping up the
distraction in your life and youknow, even those distractions
themselves can be those, like,tentacles of those entities. And
what I mean by tentacles,they're just falling away into
to hook in to your consciousnessto have a life through you. And
(23:40):
that's not necessarily a goodthing for you because often
you'll have with, you know,their influence upon your life.
You'll you'll have ideas andthings you're doing in the
world, which you think are you,but then when they're gone, you
realize was not you at all.Right? Like, that's addiction,
(24:01):
for example.
Wendy (24:02):
You had an experience like this?
CeeJay (24:03):
Yeah. For sure. For sure. So I think we all have
experiences like this. I mean,just picture addiction for 1.
When you're addicted tosomething, it's like the spirit
of whatever it is you'readdicted to, has taken you over
and makes you come back for moreand more and more. But that
spirit of addiction is alsoexperiencing through you using
it. It it's gaining energy fromyou by your experience of it.
Wendy (24:24):
Okay. That's an interesting frame. Yeah.
CeeJay (24:28):
So, yeah, anything anything can be a a soft form of
possession. Now I didn't like, Iwas a bit of, like, a as a part
of trying to become a normalperson. I I hate yeah. I laugh
at that because I look back atit and think it's silly.
Wendy (24:46):
Well, normal's a loaded word, isn't it?
CeeJay (24:49):
It is. It is. You know? And I manifested a friend that
was a very, scientificmaterialist. And part of that
was, you know, also a connectionto that sort of atheistic
Cartesian dogma that, you know,is written into all of our,
colonialized sort of world view,which makes everything so
(25:10):
regular and, clockwork technofantasy.
And that's really supercomfortable if you, you know,
you don't think you have anycontrol of the world. And I I
adopted that sort of frame as anunderstanding. And as a part of
that frame, spirits don't exist,and a part of that frame also
says that, you can't getpossessed. That's just, you
(25:30):
know, what they put in themovies. That's totally untrue
because we we all get possessedall the time to different
degrees and also to differentagreements.
And revoking those contractsactually is a really healthy way
to, get better in the world andget better with yourself, but I
didn't believe that that waspossible. And and one experience
(25:52):
I had with possession changed mecompletely, and, I had an
unfortunate incident with anencounter with a what you would
call an evil sort of shaman inByron Bay that attacked me and
loaded me up with some spiritsthat were relentless in their
perpetual attacks upon my psycheand my experience in the world.
(26:16):
And in doing so, that made merealize that, well, true
possession is really horribleand awful, and, you no longer
really want it at that sort ofovert level.
Wendy (26:26):
What was the experience like? Like, how did you know
something was
CeeJay (26:30):
How did I know? Okay. So there's a big story to this. So
I'll I'll try and make it short,because it is a long one. So I'm
living in Byron Bay at the time,and I'd been to a music
festival, and and I'd been outall night.
And I'd sort of missed my myride for the way home at that
stage, and I thought, well,look, I'll just walk home. And
(26:51):
it was a hot, hot, hot summer'snight. I think it was, early
January in 1999. And all I'vegot on is a pair of jeans. It
was a pretty wild sort of party.
And
Wendy (27:08):
Okay.
CeeJay (27:09):
Yeah.
Wendy (27:10):
I guess that's another story for another time.
CeeJay (27:12):
That is another story. And I'm walking back from where
I am to where I was going to.That's, like, 45 kilometers
distance. So I'm thinking I canwalk that way. I'm barefoot, but
I can I can do that, which whichis, you know, not rational, but
that's what I thought at thetime?
Wendy (27:28):
Okay.
CeeJay (27:30):
And I'm walking along the road that leads out of Byron
Bay towards the freeway. And ifyou know the area, there's one
big petrol station there or gasstation, you would say, on the
right hand side as you'rewalking away from Byron Bay. And
I I can see, like, this road isempty. There's nothing for many
like, a couple of kilometerseasily. And it's flat.
(27:51):
Totally flat. Yeah. And as I'mwalking up to this petrol
station or gas station, I Inoticed that suddenly there's a
couple of people sitting on thecurb near it. I'm thinking,
what's going on here? I didn'tsee those people before, and
suddenly they're there.
And as I go up, I see a mansitting with a boy. The boy runs
off, and this man is sittingthere. And he looks at me, and
(28:15):
he says, Christopher Columbus,you're on your travels, for this
evening, and I know it's yourSaturn return, which it was. And
I'm here to talk to you aboutyour life. Would you like to
smoke a joint with me?
And he pulled his fingers apart,and there's a joint in it like
he just magic it in the in thespace right there. I'm like, and
(28:36):
I looked at it and I went, whatis going on? And I said, no. No.
No.
No. No. I don't need to doanything very much.
Wendy (28:44):
I'm good.
CeeJay (28:44):
And he says, but we have some really good conversations
to be had. And I said, yeah. II'm totally good. Let's just
forget about it. Look.
I I just wanna go home. Youknow, I've had a big day. I'm
just refusing this this guy, andhe says, well, I'll I'll catch
you later. I'm walking alongthis road, and a couple of cars
do pass me and but I look back,and he's gone. I'm thinking, is
(29:05):
that real?
I don't know. I'm just not sure.And I get to the end of the
road, which in those days, thethere was a big crossroads there
and a street light. And I wokeup, and I see the guy standing
there. I'm like, this has gottabe that guy that's back there.
Like, what is going on here? Youknow? And I walk up to him, and
(29:29):
he says, Christopher Columbus,you're here again. Let's have a
conversation. I'm like, oh god.
Okay. I figured this must bemeant to be. I'm gonna go along
with this. And he says, look. Myname is Dennis, and I'm here to
work with you tonight.
And as you can see here, I'vegot one clubfoot. And he's
(29:49):
showing it to me like it's animportant thing for me to
notice. And so I said, alright.And he goes, can you get a stick
for me so I can walk moreeasily? I said, okay.
So I grabbed this found a stickfor him, and I gave him a stick.
And then I said, well, I'm goingto Myokum. I'm going this way.
I'm gonna cross over thesefields. I'm gonna cut across
there to where I do where I'vegotta go.
(30:12):
He said, just by chance, that'swhere I'm going. And
Wendy (30:15):
Yeah. Right.
CeeJay (30:16):
Okay. Okay. And I thought, okay. Look. I'm I'm
gonna just walk along withScott.
I'm not sure if I trust thisperson whatsoever. Now I hadn't
had a drink of water forprobably about 3 or 4 hours. I
was dying of thirst at thisstage. And he said, look, you're
really thirsty. And I'm like,how's he doing?
(30:36):
And he said, just down there issome water. And I can see the
creek, and I'm thinking, I don'tknow how good this creek is.
Yeah. And and I said, okay. Hesaid, look down the water.
The water down there is good,but you gotta do like, you've
gotta cup your hands togetherand push it apart to get past
(30:57):
all the oil on top because ofall the Jesus. The camp because
the camphor well, it's camphorlaurels. It's the camphor
laurels trees put oil on top toactually
Wendy (31:05):
Oh, okay.
CeeJay (31:05):
I thought it was petrochemical. Not necessary
yeah. No. No. Not necessarilybad.
But, so I got a drink of waterfrom that that creek, and I
thought, I it actually wasn't sobad. I feel better for that. I
must trust this man because, youknow, you know, relationally, it
made sense. So we startedwalking across the fields. And
over a period of 2 to 3 hours,we were talking, and I realized
(31:33):
that he's doing well, like, as Iunderstand a bit of he's doing
confusion technique and puttingspells upon me.
And I didn't realize this at thetime that they were spells, but
later on as I understood moreabout how magic works, it became
obvious to me what he would whathe had done. And I found that
these spells had made an impactupon me that I felt like I was
(31:57):
buzzing at a differentfrequency, and I could feel this
this energy inside me that Icould not explain. And I knew
that this guy was probably crazyand not really good for me, and
I also knew that I had to getaway. But then the strange thing
is he was also very helpful insome ways because he was telling
(32:19):
me stuff about my life that Icouldn't. There's no way this
guy would have known.
I've never seen this person inmy life, but he's telling me
about my life.
Wendy (32:26):
Did you give him permission to kind of read you
or or he was just doing it asyou were having a conversation?
CeeJay (32:32):
He was just doing it. But at one stage, he did did
something that was really odd.He had held up his his pinky
finger with a ring on it. I'mlike, I don't even remember now
today to to this day what thatring had on it. But he said,
you're meant to remember me.
You are to recognize me by this.And he shows it to me like it's
a warning. I'm thinking, whatdoes that mean? And I don't know
what it means. But it did occurto me that, when I went back in
(32:56):
my journal that about 8 monthsbefore, I had seen a psychic,
and she said, you're going tohave an encounter on this date
January next year.
And it will be with an evilshaman, and this is the way
you'll recognize him. You mustrun away from that man.
Wendy (33:12):
Did you remember that at the time?
CeeJay (33:14):
No. I did not. I did not remember that at the time, so it
was to my, detrimentdramatically. So I had this
encounter with this guy. He'sputting spells on me, and he
introduced introducing these 2entities into me.
I don't know how he did that,but, at the time, he was using,
like, a technique where he wouldpoint at me and pull a string on
(33:37):
his arm while pointing at my,chakras, saying things in a
different language. I didn'tknow what it was. And in doing
that, I became severelypossessed, but I didn't know
that at the time. It actuallywas something that was sound
like a like a buzzing sort offeeling at first. You You know,
this this whole night wasn'tstrange discussions, and,
eventually, I got away from thisperson because I thought, no.
(33:57):
You're damn crazy, and I'mtotally crazy like you. And, I
got home and to where I wasstaying with some other friends
who were locals and told themabout what happened. They said,
oh, you gotta watch out. There'sevil shamans around this time of
year. Like, well, I'll probablyjust encounter 1.
It was good that they knew whatthat was all that was about. And
sitting inside their house, andeveryone's trying to look after
me because I'd actually walkedso far that I injured my feet,
(34:19):
and they put, comfrey. Theysmashed up some comfrey they had
in the in the yard into a mortwith a mortar pestle and put all
over my feet to recover my feet,which was good, and, looked
after me generally. But I didnotice that whatever it was was
inside me was also starting tomanifest itself. My first
inkling of that was they said,look.
You've had no sleep. You'veyou've gotta rest. You've gotta
(34:40):
rest. Just go in this room hereand go to sleep. And as I was
trying to go to sleep, everytime I tried to stop all the
noise around me, that everythingaround me in reality started to
get louder, and people startedto fight in the next room and
shuffle furniture and do allcrazy stuff.
And I've ended up puttingfingers in my ears and and
humming just to to block it out.And, I could hear somebody just
(35:03):
as I was trying to block it outcompletely saying, hey. You
can't do that. It's just like,whatever it was was in me was
also manifesting reality aroundme at that stage. So the the
internal hours that they thatwere that were attacking me did
have control of reality aroundme at that same at that same
that same time.
And for a period of, I think, itwas about 3 and a half to 4
(35:26):
months where this was at itspeak, that happened all the
time, which was reallydisconcerting. So I found with
these beings inside me, theywere continuously attempting to,
undermine my experience ofreality by creating events
around me and interactions withpeople which were negative, to
(35:48):
put it plainly. Yeah.
Wendy (35:51):
To what end do you think?
CeeJay (35:52):
The end is to try and kill me. That was that's pretty
much the plain the plain thingthey that they wanted was for me
to become so upset with my worldand so depressed that I would
end up taking my life. I wasn'tgonna go there, and I knew that
what was happening was this I'veyou know, for the first time in
my life, I really realized whatpossession was, and this was
(36:14):
obviously it. Because I had myrational mind, which was at the
front, and then I'd have thesehad these 2 other entities,
which would pop in and cause allsorts of havoc. And they were
obviously not me, and I didn'tfeel them as me.
I just knew they were separatethings which were in me. And,
it's quite a journey. I ended upgetting them out of my system by
(36:37):
several sort of things. It tooka lot of discovery to get there.
And part of that discovery, Iended up moving out of that
house to, my own shack inanother place up in Western
Mullumbimby, New South Wales,called Main Arm.
When I was in that shack, Istarted forcibly doing
meditation again because thatwas one of the things that
(36:58):
actually seemed to help. Theydidn't like that at all. It
actually made them go to sleep,it seemed at times, and I could
actually do some peace. Andanother shaman popped in and
started talking to me.
Wendy (37:10):
From the dream time Yep. Or in the physical reality?
CeeJay (37:13):
From the dream time. From the dream
Wendy (37:14):
time. Okay.
CeeJay (37:15):
Yeah. That's the way I put it to. And at first, I was
thinking, okay. So I'mpossessed, but I'm also got
another being that's popped upto say hello. This is you know,
my world is weird.
But it seems like I was totallyokay with it because I was like,
well, okay. Maybe this being ishere to help. And he said, yeah.
I'm definitely here to help. Andto put it clearly, this was a
(37:37):
Mexican shaman.
He had a Mexican accent speakingin English to me, and he had a
really cracking sense of humor.So, it was great to actually
have someone that was actuallyhappy that was working with me
at that stage, and he didn'tever give me his name, but, he
told me a path to take. And thepart of that path was to make it
(37:58):
really super obvious. He said,you have to drink your your
urine. And I said, what?
Wendy (38:04):
Yeah. No kidding.
CeeJay (38:06):
And I said, why? And he said it's for balancing your
your brain chemistry becausethey need your brain chemistry
out of whack to keep you. Isaid, right. And I said, okay.
How do I do it?
How do I do this? You know? Andhe said, you gotta first thing
in the morning is your besttime, and it's the the best
(38:27):
quality of liquid, and you takeyour midstream. I was like, k. I
said, sure.
And I said, you put that into acontainer, and then when the sun
comes over the horizon, you lookup at the sun, and you you drink
it right then. I said, okay.
Wendy (38:40):
Was it a onetime deal, or did you have to do it for No.
CeeJay (38:43):
I had to do it for months.
Wendy (38:45):
Oh, wow.
CeeJay (38:46):
But I'll I'll tell you what I'll tell you what
happened. So it
Wendy (38:49):
Okay. Please. Yeah.
CeeJay (38:50):
The the first time I did it, I was like, okay. This is
this is wild. I'm doingsomething that's totally against
anything I understand. It wasreally hard the first 3 or 4
times. And then after, I waslike, well, I'm used to this
now.
I'm gonna do it. So I think Istarted it on, like, a Monday or
a Tuesday. So by Thursday, hesaid, look. I've got a I've got
a surprise for you. And I said,what?
And he said, you've gotta go tothe local community hall this
(39:14):
Sunday. There's a there's a booksale on there, and there's a
book there for you. I was like,I didn't know anything about
this because I hadn't been outfor a long time. So I go down
there on the Sunday, and therewas a book sale on. And I walk
around in the books, and hesays, this one this one.
He's pointing like, he'smentally pointing me towards 1.
I went over and I pick it up.And it's a book on urine
(39:37):
therapy, you know, an Ayurvedicbook on urine therapy.
Wendy (39:41):
I had heard that it is a therapeutic device used in
India. Yeah. So Ayurvedic yeah.I I hadn't heard it it through
the Ayurvedic tradition, butthat would make sense. But,
yeah, like, that's aninteresting approach for what
you're saying is depossession.
CeeJay (39:59):
Well, it was it was for me, and and picking up that book
and reading, and I was like,okay. So this being that I'm
talking with that's got medrinking my own wee actually has
a grounding. You know, there isa story in this, and it actually
is a true story. And, obviously,this has been practiced for 1000
of years, and it must work. SoI'll keep it up.
(40:21):
During that period of 3 months,I kept it up. The spirits kept
on attacking me and trying toget back in and getting a deeper
hold of me, and they couldn't.It's like they faded away, and
all their external effects whichwas, manifesting in reality
around me also faded away. Yeah.That's pretty much my story of
massive possession.
Wendy (40:42):
Okay. So why do you think this dentist guy chose you?
CeeJay (40:48):
I have no idea. I've gotta say I have no idea. I I
think I might have been justopen to it at the time. I don't
know.
Wendy (40:56):
Were you under the influence of anything when you
encountered him?
CeeJay (40:59):
I was coming off the influence of things.
Wendy (41:04):
Of things?
CeeJay (41:05):
Yes. It was I would just say it was a day that didn't
work out the way I thought itwould. Gotcha. Yeah. It's it's
like I'd cracked open somethingin myself at that stage.
So
Wendy (41:18):
Okay. So there was a a a vulnerability of sorts.
CeeJay (41:21):
Yeah. That's right. That's right. There was a
vulnerability of sorts.
Wendy (41:25):
Do you think that Dennis was do you think he was
physical, or do you think he wasnonmaterial?
CeeJay (41:33):
He was definitely physical, and I know that
because at one stage where wecome to a small stream, and he
says, look. You are the Christ.I have to carry you across the
stream. And I said, okay. That'sweird.
And he got down on his knees,and he said, jump on my
shoulders. I jumped on hisshoulders, and he carried me
(41:55):
across the stream.
Wendy (41:56):
On his shoulders? Not on his back?
CeeJay (41:58):
On on his shoulders.
Wendy (42:01):
That must have been his sight, but a guy with a club
foot and a stick carrying youacross water.
CeeJay (42:06):
Yeah. Well, I mean, the stream was, like, maybe a foot
wide, but it was
Wendy (42:10):
Oh, oh, okay.
CeeJay (42:12):
It was for him, it was metaphorical. So
Wendy (42:15):
I see. Okay. But it sounds like he was also trying
to plant an idea of you're achosen one or you are Yeah. I
see. Special being.
CeeJay (42:23):
Yeah. A lot of so that's sort of
Wendy (42:26):
What a trippy experience.
CeeJay (42:28):
Oh, god. I don't recommend it.
Wendy (42:32):
Yeah. And and it sounds like your meditation practice
really helped
CeeJay (42:36):
Massively. Massively helped.
Wendy (42:38):
Pull you out of that experience. Yeah. Yeah. That's
quite a story. Do you I mean,you had mentioned that people
said, oh, yeah.
There are evil shamans that comeout at this time.
CeeJay (42:49):
They've ex must have experienced them before. So,
yeah, the people I lived withwere pretty like a shamanic
family as it was. So they knewthat there was these sort of
forces around this time.
Wendy (43:00):
Was Dennis was he an indigenous fellow? No.
CeeJay (43:05):
Dennis was actually Irish. I know. Right? I'm like
Alright. Sounding weird.
Irish or Scottish? I can't Idon't think it was Irish.
Wendy (43:17):
From the UK.
CeeJay (43:19):
Yeah. He was he was from overseas, and he did have an
accent. And he was in as a partof pulling up his his pants leg
to show me his club foot, he didactually also say that, you
know, you'll notice this isthese are really good quality
tweed wool trousers. It's like,okay. But if I'm asked.
Wendy (43:40):
Yeah. Well, that's helpful. Thanks for thanks for
that information, man.
CeeJay (43:44):
Thanks for that detail.
Wendy (43:45):
And you were probably mightily impressed, right, with
the quality
CeeJay (43:48):
of the
Wendy (43:49):
trousers. Yeah.
CeeJay (43:50):
That's I thought it was just odd. Like, because that but
my whole day had been odd, soit's like, it can't get any odd
up, but it did.
Wendy (43:58):
But it did.
CeeJay (43:58):
Yes. It
Wendy (43:59):
did. He's like, I'll I'll take that oddness, and I will
Yeah. I will double it, tripleit.
CeeJay (44:06):
Yes. Yes.
Wendy (44:10):
Well, I'm glad you got through that. I'm glad you
figured that out. And I find itfascinating that you were able
to navigate that territory onyour own, that you were able to
because of your own practice.
CeeJay (44:22):
Well, I mean, it wasn't only on my own. I did have that,
Mexican Shabbat that did help methrough. There were other
spirits.
Wendy (44:28):
No. But, I mean, he helped you, but he was part of
your spiritual practice. He yousaid he was in the dream time.
He came to you in yourmeditations or he came to you in
the physical?
CeeJay (44:38):
He well, I wasn't meditating at the time. It just
turned up as an extra spiritentity that started talking to
me in my head
Wendy (44:46):
Okay. Alright.
CeeJay (44:47):
Plainly. So to me, it was like because I'm I have
times when I'm severely open tocontact, and spirits can come up
and talk to me. And depending onwhether they're good or not,
I'll talk to them.
Wendy (44:57):
And how do you discern that?
CeeJay (44:59):
I can just tell and feel feel it. Yeah. When you carry a
lot of light, I think thatactually actually does act as a
bit of barriers that thenegative ones don't really get a
chance to come in.
Wendy (45:10):
Not like a beacon?
CeeJay (45:11):
There still can be a beacon. But, I find that for
myself, I I have a lot ofprotection on my side. So I
think I'm I'm pretty well good.I mean, occasionally, I get
possessed. So, but like smallpossessions, like, say,
different plant medicines ormaybe chocolate.
Wendy (45:29):
Or I can definitely relate to the chocolate.
CeeJay (45:32):
Yeah. Or a terrible TV series.
Wendy (45:37):
I never considered that possession. I just consider that
a nice escape.
CeeJay (45:41):
Well, escape is possession, isn't it? Like, you
know, this being distracted?
Wendy (45:44):
According to your definition of it, yeah. I guess
it is. I mean, I see that assomebody who's does intense work
and is an intense person myselfYes. And very sensitive on top
of it. It's like diving into astory helps it gives me reprieve
CeeJay (46:01):
from Oh, for sure. For sure. You gotta pick the right
stories though, I think.
Wendy (46:04):
Yeah. Well yeah. I mean, I probably don't do that,
CeeJay (46:08):
but whatever the rush is. I don't think any of us
does. That dude, that's whythat's why I was saying it.
Wendy (46:14):
Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. So what's your relationship like
then with fear?
CeeJay (46:18):
Don't have fear, but during that time that I had that
possession, I experiencedabsolute horror and, was
overwhelming and and wasterrifying all the time, which
was really awful. So when I wasin that possession, I didn't
know I didn't know fear properlyuntil I had that. And, it was
well, to put a playmate, it'slike the the biblical fire and
(46:39):
brimstone coming down on youcontinuously. You just felt
like, like, I felt like everymoment was gonna be something
horrible happening. That's howawful it was.
Wendy (46:49):
That sounds terrible.
CeeJay (46:50):
Yeah. It was. Yeah. So three and a half months of that.
Wendy (46:53):
Like, you're waiting for the the other shoe to drop all
the time.
CeeJay (46:56):
All the time. Because that's how they they triggered
sort of chemistry in me to tohave that sort of thing. Because
you think about it, these beingsare drinking like there's no
tomorrow. They really, reallyenjoy what they call the loush,
I think it is, which is like anenergy for the force, and they
get that out of you throughextreme emotion. And when they
(47:16):
do that, they get rewarded.
Wendy (47:17):
Oh, I yeah. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah.
CeeJay (47:19):
Comes up in, a lot of the reductions for the circles
and but, yeah. So that's theiraim, I think, is to actually get
a lot of energy out of you. Andin doing so, fear is probably
the best one. That's that's, Ithink, the one of the best ones
to
Wendy (47:33):
Oh, yeah. No. That's it's an effective tool for anyone to
use against someone else.
CeeJay (47:39):
Yeah. When people are in fear states, they don't make
clear decisions, do they? Sothey just, yeah, narrow focus.
Wendy (47:45):
No. And I think that is kind of where we're collectively
at is in a place of fear.
CeeJay (47:51):
Well, I think they tried their best on in the last little
while, but I think more peopleare waking up because of it.
It's like, does the world haveto be like this? Do we have to
listen to these idiots?
Wendy (48:02):
I don't think so. Yeah. I certainly hope so. Absolutely.
Yeah.
I still see us as all verycollectively lost, again, with
all of that noise. But I'm I'mnoticing that more and more
folks seem to be it's almostlike it's the volume is getting
turned up so high that thediscomfort that people are
(48:22):
feeling is getting so intensethat they're just like, make it
stop. What do I need to do tomake this stop? And asking that
question
CeeJay (48:32):
Yeah. People are looking for a Skype.
Wendy (48:33):
Well, yeah. Because we have that external thing, so
they're going externally. Sowhat do I need? Antidepressants,
antianxiety medication, sleepmedication?
CeeJay (48:41):
Yeah. A
Wendy (48:42):
lot of people seem to be leaning towards more spiritual
avenues to to investigate what'sgoing on within themselves
because maybe they triedeverything else and it doesn't
seem to be
CeeJay (48:53):
Yeah. I think so.
Wendy (48:54):
Settling what's going on inside of them.
CeeJay (48:56):
True. True.
Wendy (48:58):
But, yeah, I I'd have to say in the last, yeah, the last
year, it's like almost everybodyI'm working with is in crisis, a
crisis of some sort.
CeeJay (49:08):
Yeah. I would say that. I mean, talking to people around
me and whatever it is in theAstra, whether that's causing
it, but, it's like everyone hashad, like, a for 2,023, for
example, everyone has hadongoing catastrophe, but also
amazing stuff too. So it's like
Wendy (49:28):
Yeah. No. There's that side as well. You're right.
CeeJay (49:32):
So I don't know. I'm I'm enjoying everything. It's like
this is a I've just been througha disaster here where I live,
and and, I just look at it aslike an opportunity for
enjoyment. There's another wayto enjoy things. You just gotta
go, okay.
Well, this is where we are now.This is where we are now. Things
aren't exactly as it used to be,but there is still a way to
(49:56):
enjoy everything because this isthe life that we chose. This is
the life that we chose. It's nothorrible.
It's not terrible. I mean, thereis events that happen in that,
but not every moment is. So behere now. Be in this moment.
What have you got?
Do you have gratitude for that?That's that's the important
thing, I think.
Wendy (50:16):
And what if it's all is a dream?
CeeJay (50:20):
God. That a part of us
Wendy (50:23):
is dreaming into existence.
CeeJay (50:26):
Yeah. For sure. There is does seem like it it does seem
like that at times for sure and,stronger at other times than
others.
Wendy (50:34):
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that's how I kind of make
sense of things right nowanyway. But
CeeJay (50:40):
Mhmm. Yeah. It does. I mean, it does have that dream
logic, doesn't it? That's why wehave all this sort of these
twists and turns and and, plotchanges.
Wendy (50:47):
It's like, what? Now? This is crazy. Yeah.
CeeJay (50:51):
Yeah. Yeah. It's gold on acid.
Wendy (50:53):
So what do you I mean, you you don't do any kind of I
mean, this is just your own solopractice and your podcast is
just about exploringotherworldly events and people
who
CeeJay (51:06):
Yes.
Wendy (51:07):
Do healing work and have had experiences and
CeeJay (51:10):
That's right.
Wendy (51:10):
So you're basically you're just sharing information.
You're not offering services topeople, or are you?
CeeJay (51:18):
No. No. I should.
Wendy (51:21):
If you if you did, what would you offer?
CeeJay (51:23):
If I did, I would offer divination services because I do
psychic work and I do tarotwork. In a pinch, I could do
some astrology, like transitreadings and stuff like that as
well. I wouldn't say I'm anexpert at that. But, from what I
hear from other astrologists,that's how it always feels in
the start, so don't worry aboutit. So
Wendy (51:43):
How about guidance on urine therapy?
CeeJay (51:45):
Oh, no. I'd I'd be I'm happy to talk to people about
that if they wanna try that. Imean, that's fine. Yeah.
Wendy (51:52):
I'm asking because if anyone is listening and they're
intrigued by what you've had tosay.
CeeJay (51:57):
Well, look look, there is ways to like, I'd I'd be
totally willing to talk topeople about their understanding
or position, or if they'reactually going through stuff to
if they wanna reach out and andtalk about how they can get
through it, totally fine withtalking with people about that.
That's I'd be happy to helppeople get out of their their
loops if they want to or try tohelp them or point them in
(52:20):
directions, that may help themfor sure.
Wendy (52:22):
So what what's the best way to get a hold of you?
CeeJay (52:25):
Best way to get a hold of me directly is to write to me
on email at supernormalized witha zed, at proton.me, and that's
my main email address for all ofthis sort of work. Otherwise,
yeah, actually, just we'll justleave it at that. It's probably
just just best to go straight tothat email.
Wendy (52:45):
Okay.
CeeJay (52:45):
And then if you wish to listen to my podcast too, get
out of mind, I'd like to plugthat. And, yeah, that's just
I should say. Yeah. Let's makeit nice and simple.
Wendy (52:57):
And on any platform where you listen to podcasts, I
imagine.
CeeJay (53:01):
That's right. Yeah. It's on every podcast platform. Then
just type in supernormalized,and you'll find me.
Wendy (53:06):
Alright. Excellent. Well, this has this has been quite a
conversation.
CeeJay (53:11):
Yeah. For sure. I still think we've got more to say,
Wendy.
Wendy (53:15):
Are we not done yet? We have more yeah. I'm sure there's
always stuff we could talkabout. Absolutely.
CeeJay (53:20):
Yeah. For sure. For sure. Thank you so much for
having me on your show, andthanks so much for coming on my
show again.
Wendy (53:26):
Yeah. No. Thank you.
CeeJay (53:27):
Our time.
Wendy (53:28):
Yeah. No. It was it was a lot of fun. Yeah.
CeeJay (53:30):
Maybe maybe there's a part 3. We'll see.
Wendy (53:32):
We'll see. Let's see if maybe people, give us feedback,
and they wanna hear more.
CeeJay (53:36):
Yeah. That's right. Give us some feedback if you like it.
That's right. It's a good idea.
Wendy (53:41):
But not if you don't.
CeeJay (53:45):
Actually, I don't mind if people don't. I mean, if I
don't like it and tell us,because then I know, like, well,
that didn't work or Tell useverything. Tell us the truth.
Wendy (53:53):
Well, yeah, I'll I'll get behind that.
CeeJay (53:55):
Yeah.
Wendy (53:55):
Just don't be mean about it.
CeeJay (53:56):
No. No. Don't don't be mean. That's boring. Yeah.
Wendy (53:59):
That's boring. It's also mean.
CeeJay (54:03):
Yeah. True.
Wendy (54:05):
Alright, sir. Well, thank you so much.
CeeJay (54:07):
Thank you too, Wendy.
Wendy (54:11):
There's a lot to unpack there. I really appreciate CJ's
honesty and his willingness toshare his experience with me and
now you. As he was talking, Iwas thinking about what it must
be like to hear about hisexperience. And I think the
downside of sharing stories likeCJ's is that it can make you, as
(54:31):
a listener, feel powerless towhat he's referring to as dark
or unsavory forces out there inthe universe. If you've listened
to me talk about my thoughts onevil and dark forces in other
episodes, you already know thatI don't quite see things the
same way as CJ.
And I'm not saying that what heexperienced wasn't real, but
(54:54):
what I've learned over theyears, right or wrong, is that
your worldview can't help butinfluence how you make sense of
things that don't make sense. Soif hearing CJ's story ramped up
your fear, please know that youare an innately powerful person
with a lot of agency with howyou think and what you believe
(55:14):
and subsequently how you makesense of things. And like I said
at the end of our conversation,maybe this life we're living is
really just all a dream, ormaybe you're thinking that I'm
just naive or really lucky thatwhat happened to CJ hasn't
happened to me. The truth isthere are disturbing experiences
I've had. I'm thinking of 1 inparticular where I did frame
(55:37):
what happened in a similar wayto CJ and remember how powerless
and vulnerable I felt as aresult.
I look back on that time now andsee the experience much
differently. As the Hawaiianssay, the world is what you think
it is. And when you really,really contemplate what that
means, it's an immenselypowerful thing. So, I'll leave
(56:01):
you with that. Do with itwhatever you like.
So thank you so very much forlistening. I hope the rest of
your day is crazy peaceful andreally fun. Until next time.
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