August 25, 2025 • 36 mins
What remains when we remove Christ from Christianity? A powerful exploration of how modern Christianity often betrays its namesake by replacing love with judgment, inclusion with exclusion, and grace with condemnation.
Through vulnerable personal stories and penetrating cultural analysis, we confront the uncomfortable reality that Gandhi articulated: "I like your Christ, but not your Christianity." From turning away from homeless people while claiming religious devotion, to Christians leading opposition against refugees and immigrants despite clear biblical mandates to welcome strangers, we see a faith that has lost its center.
The heart of this spiritual crisis lies in our desperate search for validation and worth. We collect "medals" of achievement, relationship status, and financial success, wearing them proudly until they're inevitably stripped away. But Jesus offers a different medal—the unchangeable identity of being God's beloved child—that never leaves our neck regardless of circumstances or performance.
Putting Christ back into Christianity requires two transformational moves: accepting Christ's unconditional love rather than frantically trying to earn it, and extending that same love to others—especially those who seem least deserving of it. The families of Emanuel AME Church shooting victims demonstrated this radical love when they looked at their loved ones' killer and said, "I forgive you."
What would happen if we were given the microphone to address those who have wounded us most deeply? Could we find the courage to bless rather than curse? When we choose forgiveness over vengeance and love over hatred, Christ returns to the center of our faith, transforming it from hollow religion into living relationship.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I was at Northwestern University there
was a group of guys that we alllived together and we were
inseparable.
There was Poo Dog, he was thenice one.
There was Flippo, he was thecrazy one.
There was Andrew Kim, ruler ofthe gym, he was the athletic one
.
There was Hawaiian Ryan, he wasthe soft and musical one.
(00:21):
There was Miller Time, who wasthe strong one, and there was me
, dent Boy.
We don't need to know why I wascalled Dent Boy, but me Dent
Boy.
I was the religious one and Iwas unashamed of my Christianity
.
In fact they knew it.
I was kind of bold in theirface about my Christianity.
At that time I was passionate.
I would tell them all the timesabout Jesus and how they should
(00:43):
follow him, and I would holdBible studies in my dorm room
and sometimes they would comeand they would say man, jason,
I've never met anybody who knowsas much about the Bible as you
do.
We even would talk about it atdifferent times.
One day we went all as a groupof guys to see Titanic.
It was a strange movie as agroup of guys, not an action
(01:04):
movie.
But we went to see Titanic.
It was a strange movie as agroup of guys, not an action
movie, but we went to seeTitanic.
It was back in the 90s, as youmay imagine, and you know that
famous scene where Rose, forsome reason, leonardo DiCaprio
is on the board, but I mean,rose is on the board and Leo is
going down down, down into thewater and he passes away.
And later that night I turnedto my roommate, hawaiian Ryan,
(01:29):
and I said, ryan, when I saw Leogo down into his death, I
thought about you and I thoughtabout your Christless eternity
and would you follow Jesus?
This is not the way to explainJesus to people.
He was scared, he didn't answer, it didn't go well, but he
forgave me.
(01:50):
And a little bit later in thatyear, as we did every single
night at about midnight is whenwe stopped studying and we all
went down to Burger King.
So we walked down SheridanAvenue to Burger King because
they had a $2.99 Whopper mealNow it's $39.99, but back then
it was $2.99.
And we ordered our $2.99Whopper meal.
(02:10):
We had it and we were walkingout and there was a homeless guy
there.
He was there every night.
We were there and he asked usfor money.
True Dog gave him some moneyand talked to him.
And then he turned to me and heasked me for the same.
Not only did I not give himmoney, I turned my back to him
(02:32):
and walked away and didn't evenacknowledge that he existed.
A little bit later that night,poo Dog said to me Jason, I
thought you were all about Jesus, wasn't Jesus about helping the
poor?
And I realized in that moment,while I claimed to be a
(02:53):
Christian, I had taken Christout of Christian and all I was
left with was anger and prideand judgmentalism and things
unfortunately, I had learned inmy church growing up.
I told him that you know whatGod helps those who help
themselves.
I told him he's probably anaddict.
(03:14):
His choices brought him thereand I ignored the teachings of
Jesus that I'm not the one tojudge.
I ignored the teachings ofJesus where he said I have come
to proclaim good news to thepoor.
I ignored the teachings ofJesus that said I have come that
all may have rest.
See, my Jesus was really justmasquerading as Jason and I had
(03:37):
taken Christ out of Christian.
Mahatma Gandhi was once askedwhy he did not call himself a
Christian.
Listen to what he said Ibelieve in the teachings of
Christ, but you on the otherside of the world do not?
I read the Bible faithfully andsee little in Christendom that
those who profess faith pretendto see.
The Christians of all othersare seeking after wealth.
(04:00):
Their aim is to be rich at theexpense of their neighbors.
They come among aliens toexploit them for their own good
and cheat them to do so.
Their prosperity is far moreessential to them than the life,
liberty and happiness of others.
The Christians are the mostwarlike people.
I like your Christ, but notyour Christianity.
(04:22):
In so many ways this is truetoday.
Christians have taken Christout of Christian.
We live in a country where theterm evangelical where at its
root means bearer of good news,of hope of something beautiful.
When we hear the wordevangelical now, people think of
(04:44):
hatred and judgmentalism.
Christian has been synonymouswith hate and anger and
isolation.
We see this with immigrants andrefugees.
Christians are often theleading voice on the front line
celebrating the horrific actionsof kids being torn away from
their family, family members whohave not committed a crime.
(05:04):
Jesus said in Matthew 25, whenyou welcome the stranger, you
welcome me, and there is verseafter verse in scripture about
welcoming immigrants andstrangers into your land.
We have taken Christ out ofChristian.
We see it as Gandhi said, inwar.
Now, war is complicated, I knowthat, but those who are
(05:27):
Christians, call themselvesChristians have often, with
blind theology and incompletetheology, supported.
In Gaza, one of the greatesthumanitarian crises of our time,
where 22% of the population,470,000 people right now, are
facing starvation, malnutritionis at its peak, infrastructure
(05:48):
has been destroyed, limiting theability for electricity, clean
water, sanitation and healthcare.
According to the Red Cross,52,000 people have died since
October of 2023, and the worstoff are the elderly, the women
and the children the elderly,the women and the children.
Yet many Christians are okaywith this, claiming their
(06:11):
theology as the reason why We'vetaken Christ out of Christian.
I could spend years talkingabout the LGBTQ community, how,
in the name of Christianity,people have shown hatred and
bigotry and even violence.
I'll never forget when I was apastor of a church, a woman came
in and said hey, can we grabcoffee someday?
(06:33):
And so we grabbed coffee andshe told me her story.
She was a trans woman and shedidn't ask for our church's
position on sexuality.
She didn't ask for a whitepaper on what do you believe
about marriage, what do youbelieve about this or that she
just simply asked me a question.
She said, jason, can I comehere?
Because I've been to churcheswhere when they find out I'm
(06:57):
there, they kick me out the nextweek.
And I told her in our churchyou can have a front row seat
and one of the greatest joys ofmy time there was baptizing her
and her husband, who's apassionate follower of Jesus.
But for her, many Christianshad taken Christ out of
Christian.
(07:18):
It wasn't about their stance,it was just do you love me or
not?
We could go to people of color.
Christians have been on thefront lines of being against
issues of race in the past datesback to the days of slavery,
where pastors would use theBible to justify it, or the days
(07:38):
of segregation in the 50s and60s, but now as well.
I remember not too long afterthe Ferguson riots, I felt it
was necessary to speak to mychurch just on what the Bible
says about race and what Jesuscalls us to.
I didn't use any politicallycharged comments.
I just used 67 verses from thescripture to show God's desire
(08:02):
for racial equity and why it'sat the core of Christianity.
And while some peopleunderstood it, the next day I
started getting lettersanonymously sent to my house
threatening my kids.
I got anonymous emails fromchurch leaders calling me a
fascist, a heretic and theantichrist.
(08:26):
I soon had to have security atthe church and people tried to
get me fired.
We've taken the Christ out ofChristian For the females in the
room.
You know what this is like too.
If you go on Desiring Godwebsite right now the website
that I was told in seminary wasa great source for all things
(08:49):
theological, prominent site forthousands of churches around the
country you would see multiplebooks by a man named Douglas
Wilson.
Douglas Wilson is pastor ofChrist Church in Idaho and a
leader of movement of churchesacross the United States, and
prominent figures, includingpoliticians, attend his churches
.
He recently said in aninterview with CNN that women
(09:15):
are the kind of people thatpeople come out of and that
takes no talent, and he and hischurch leaders advocate for a
society where the 19th Amendmentis revoked and women should not
be allowed to vote and insteadthe husband should vote for the
household.
It's extreme that many of thewomen in this room have faced
restriction in church, inabilityto lead and abuse at home in
(09:38):
the name of Christianity.
I'll never forget a seminary, afellow seminarian of mine.
She graduated summa cum laudefrom seminary and she went into
the placement office, whichhelps with placement of students
into churches, and theplacement officer laughed at her
and said what are you doinghere?
There's no jobs for you.
(10:00):
Taking Christ out of Christian.
The Christ who elevated therole of women, had women
disciples, women who financedhis ministry, who entrusted with
the message of his resurrection.
Yet we don't.
Shane Claiborne, a Christianauthor and activist, writes this
when someone asks us if we areChristians, I think the best
(10:20):
answer is to tell them to askthe poor, the incarcerated, the
immigrants, the refugees, thewidows and the orphans, the
least of these.
They will tell you who theChristians are.
See, when we take Christ out ofChristian, we're left with
nationalism, judgmentalism.
The Christian we're left withnationalism, judgmentalism,
isolationism, sexism, racism,classism, anything but Christian
(10:48):
.
But this is much more personalthan just something globally or
nationally or politically.
It's personal for a lot of us.
I could tell you of a woman Iknow whose husband emotionally
abused her and controlled herevery move.
He didn't let her have money,he tracked her every move, left
her broken in a shell and when Iconfronted him on it he said
well, jason, I'm the head of thehousehold.
(11:09):
I'm supposed to lead it asChrist led the church.
And I said that's not howChrist led the church.
He gave himself up for her.
He didn't control her.
He had taken Christ out ofChristian.
I could tell you my own storyof how, a few years ago I mean
you know my life imploded froman addiction.
I was hesitant about going backinto church.
(11:31):
I had moved down to the Chicagoarea and while I was still
connected with Madison Churchwhich was awesome, you're a bit
far away, so I couldn't come uphere every Sunday and so I went
and I said I'll give church atry again.
I had hurt church, but I'd alsobeen hurt deeply by church.
And so I went and the pastorthere gave an amazing message
(11:52):
about grace and redemption andforgiveness and second chances.
And I remember sitting there inthe pews just crying, grateful
I'd found a safe place.
I decided to take the next stepand sign up for a small group.
Even though I didn't reallywant to.
I thought I should you knowthey tell me to do this, that
I'll go to hell if I don't.
(12:12):
So I'll just do this.
And so I signed up for a smallgroup.
I got a call from one of theleaders of the small group
ministry and he said let's meeton Wednesday night to talk about
your application for smallgroup ministry, to be in a small
group.
And I thought, oh great, thismust be kind of a personal way
they introduce people to smallgroups.
(12:34):
And I walked through the doorand the first thing he said
wasn't hi, it wasn't hey, we'reglad you're here.
He said I know who you are, Iknow your story and you can't be
a part of our groups.
Even though I had never brokena law, I'd never prayed on
anybody in my congregation, Ihad never done anything with
anybody that would in any sensekeep me from small group
(12:56):
ministry.
I was broken goods taking Christout of Christian.
Many of you here have similarstories Family members who are
the most adamant about churchand Bible but the most abusive
towards you.
Friends who use the Bible as aweapon against you.
Churches who, in the name of,hurt you and left you hanging
out to dry and if that's thecase, I'm so sorry.
(13:18):
That's not Christianity.
In so many ways and so manyforms we've taken Christ out of
Christian.
This problem is nothing new.
We're in a series calledPharisee and Me looking at these
religious leaders, thesepastors, these priests, these
spiritual authorities who livelives marked not by grace and
(13:39):
mercy and love, but byjudgmentalism, hatred and
bigotry.
In John, chapter 5, jesus comes,and I love Jesus.
He doesn't mince his words withthese leaders, he calls them
out on it.
Look at John, chapter 5, verse36.
He says this I have testimonyweightier than that of John For
the works that the Father hasgiven me to finish, the very
works that I am doing testifythat the Father has sent me, and
(14:05):
the Father who sent me himselfhas himself testified concerning
me.
You never heard his voice, norseen his form, nor does his word
dwell in you, for you do notbelieve the one he sent.
You study the scriptures Now.
Don't miss this.
You study the scripturesdiligently because you think
dwell in you, for you do notbelieve the one he sent.
You study the scriptures Now.
Don't miss this.
You study the scripturesdiligently because you think
that in them you have eternallife.
These are the very scripturesthat testify about me, yet you
(14:28):
refuse to come to me to havelife.
That's a lot of words, but whatJesus is essentially saying is
you know the Bible, you have theverses, you claim the religious
high ground.
But you've missed the pointaltogether.
In fact, a little later in thepassage, he says you follow the
words of Moses.
But Moses was about me.
(14:50):
He was pointing people to thecoming Messiah.
I'm the focus, not some laws,not some who's in, who's out,
who's right, who's wrong gameyou are playing.
No, it's about me.
Always has been, always will be.
Those Psalms that David wrote,they're about me.
Those prophecies that were inthe Old Testament, they're about
me.
Yet you have missed it.
(15:11):
You have taken Christ.
They had these words back thenout of Christian.
John would write this earlierin his gospel.
John very first words of hisgospel in the beginning was the
word, and the word was with Godand the word was God.
He's talking about Jesus here.
He was with God in thebeginning.
Through him, all things weremade.
(15:32):
Without him, nothing was made.
That has been made In him waslife, and that life was the
light of all mankind.
The light shines in thedarkness and the darkness.
And that word, jesus, peoplehad often missed it.
Jesus was saying that I am theword.
He's saying Don't use thesewords for other things.
(15:55):
Use them to point them to me.
And it's easy for us when wehear these examples that I
talked about earlier or we readwhat the Pharisees are doing
here, it's easy for us to shakeour heads and say how can they
miss it?
How can they take Christ out ofChristian?
But remember, this series isnot the Pharisee and our
politician, it's not thePharisee and the people who hurt
(16:17):
us.
Pharisee and our politician.
It's not the Pharisee and thepeople who hurt us.
No, stephen chose the title ofthe series to be the Pharisee in
me.
I'm a Pharisee.
All of us have a Phariseeinside of us.
Will we miss the pointaltogether?
All of us in some way, big orsmall, take Christ out of
(16:39):
Christian.
So the question remains if weclaim to be Christian, how do we
make sure Christ is actually inthe center of the Christian
entity we live out?
Jesus gives the answer to this,and it's powerfully simple and
powerfully hard.
I do not accept the glory fromhuman beings, he says in verse
41, but I know you.
(17:00):
I know that you do not have thelove of God in your hearts.
Jesus is saying the reasonyou're missing me is you're
missing love, one of the wordsof the great theologians, the
Black Eyed Peas.
Where is the love?
(17:21):
I mean.
That's what Jesus was about.
People asked him what's all theOld Testament laws, what are
they all about?
He said let me just put it onthe table for you Love God, love
others.
It's as simple and as difficultas that.
And so if you and I are ever toput Christ into our Christian,
(17:43):
we have to be about love.
It's not complex, but it's noteasy the first thing we need to
do.
There's many things we can talkabout, but let me just talk
about a couple of things thismorning.
We have to accept Christ's love.
Stop trying to earn it.
We have to accept Christ's love.
Stop trying to earn it.
(18:04):
See, the life of a Pharisee is alife that always is desperate
for people's love andaffirmation.
Jesus pointed this out rightafter saying they are missing
love.
Look at what he says, verse 43,for I have come to you in my
father's name and you haverejected me.
Yet if others come in their ownname, you gladly welcome them.
No wonder you can't believe,for you gladly honor each other,
but you don't care about thehonor that comes from the one
(18:29):
who, alone, is God.
He's saying you're living yourlife dependent on acceptance of
others.
You are living trying to proveto them that you are good, that
you are something, but youmissed the whole point.
No wonder you can't believe.
Your whole life was pointed tothem to gain their approval.
You've forgotten who you are.
In me and I read this and Ithink how could they be so blind
(18:52):
?
Why are they so focused on theapproval of other people?
But I remember most of my lifewas lived that way.
I've shared a bit of the storywith some of you before, but it
bears repeating.
I grew up in a seeminglyperfect family.
My dad was a vice president atMichigan State University.
He won regularly awards forbeing the best fundraiser in
(19:16):
higher education in the nation.
He led a $1.5 billion campaignStephen, you should talk to him
about the giving here at thechurch, but he was amazing.
He was the chairman of ourelder board at church.
People loved him.
He was one of those guys thatjust had it and he still has it.
People love my dad.
He's extremely successful andan awesome person to boot.
(19:39):
My mom was just as impressive.
She was a stay-at-home mom formuch of my life, but
stay-at-home mom for her meantthat she did everything and
anything in the community andshe ran the largest women's
ministry in our city.
She could preach and then justfor kicks.
When I was in high school shewent and got her master's and
did a whole second career juston top of that, my brother my
(20:04):
brother's just annoying.
I mean, I love him most of thetime, but he was perfect at
everything.
He was an all-athlete ateverything.
He was an all-state.
I didn't even know you could bethis.
He was an all-state musicianand he dated my friends, which
(20:25):
was really annoying, even thoughhe was a little bit older.
But there's one thing that hewasn't perfect at he didn't have
a perfect 4.0 GPA, he just hada 3.97.
So I thought I can beat that.
And even though we went to thenumber one ranked school in the
state of Michigan, I decided I'mgoing to get a 4.0, no matter
what it takes.
And so every day in my highschool and this is not an
(20:48):
exaggeration every day I wouldcome home from 3.30 until 11.30,
I would study.
My parents actually had to puta limit on how much I was
allowed to study.
I know that's sick and twisted,but it's my life.
After I graduated from highschool, I would actually study
on this love seat in our familyroom.
(21:09):
They actually had to throw thelove seat away because I'd worn
a hole in it from sitting therefor so long.
But lo and behold, my senioryear.
I graduated with a 4.0.
I had destroyed my brother andI got this medal that was put
(21:29):
around my neck that proudlystates I am valedictorian.
I remember how good that feltfor 20 minutes.
And then I went home and Irealized well, what's next?
(21:50):
What other medals do I need toget now?
People are clapping for me now,but they're not going to keep
clapping for me.
And so I need to get now.
And people are clapping for menow, but they're not going to
keep clapping for me.
And so I went to seminary and Iwent to grads, undergrad, and I
went to seminary and said well,I got to graduate number one.
And so I got another medal andgraduated number one there.
And then, when I was statingthis outwardly, I actually wrote
(22:14):
this down somewhere that I needto be a pastor of a megachurch
by the time I'm 35.
And I accomplished that.
I got another medal.
But then the medals stoppedcoming, and the more they
stopped coming and the more Ididn't know what to do.
My marriage, which was a medalin itself, was falling apart and
(22:41):
soon that medal felt like itwas being taken away.
For the first time in my career, I was being criticized by
people and in that moment, whenI started to lose my medals, I
went into addiction and I lostlose my medals.
I went into addiction.
I lost all my medals.
I lost my job, my marriage, myreputation.
(23:05):
I found myself sitting in theArizona desert at a rehab center
asking who am I now that Idon't have this?
See, our problem is that we liveour lives trying to get and
keep our medals.
We may get them for a bid, wemay get them in relationships.
(23:28):
She, she's into you and for awhile it's amazing she puts that
medal of acceptance around yourneck.
She's your person, until she'snot, and she rips that medal off
you and you wonder whathappened.
Maybe you get it in a careerfor that time.
(23:50):
In your job, you get thepromotion.
You're going up high in yourcareer, you're climbing that
ladder, you get that medal.
You get medal after medal untilyou don't, until you lose that
job.
You may have it with your kids.
They want to be with you asmuch as possible, and then they
get older and life getscomplicated and they don't want
(24:11):
to be with you and that medalyou had around your neck is
taken away again.
You may have done wellfinancially lots of medals, gold
medals.
Your portfolio is strong, youhave the house, you have the
cars, you have the vacations,until you don't you lose that
medal.
But maybe we don't lose ourmedals, maybe life is good and
(24:36):
we just keep adding more andmore and more medals.
But the more we add, theheavier they get and the more
pressure we put on ourselves tokeep them around our necks.
Let me ask you what medals doyou have?
What medals are you sodesperately trying to get?
Which ones have you lost?
(24:56):
Which ones are you trying tohold on to?
I mean, these things aren't bad,don't get me wrong.
Relationships are good, successis good, careers are good,
financial blessings are good.
But when we hang our worth onthat, jesus says you've missed
the whole point.
Stop trying to look to otherpeople for your honor, jesus
(25:17):
says in John, chapter 5.
Instead, realize that from theday you were born, I put a medal
around your neck and it doesn'tsay CEO, it doesn't say
valedictorian on it, it doesn'tsay any of it, it just simply
says child of God.
And that medal never leavesyour neck.
(25:39):
You don't have to get otherthings.
Those things will come and theywill go, but you always have
this you were loved by me.
It doesn't matter what othermedals you get.
Want to put Christ intoChristian.
Accept that.
(26:00):
Stop trying so dang hard toprove to other people.
You're worth something.
You are worth something.
So accept Christ's love.
Stop trying to earn it.
The second thing and the lastthing we'll focus on today is
(26:21):
show Christ's love, even if theydon't deserve it.
That's the hard one.
That's what Kyle spoke of acouple of weeks ago in a great
message.
I encourage you to go listen tothat.
But perhaps the greatest way wecan show Christ in us is loving
people who don't deserve it.
But the problem is and let'sjust be honest here that goes
(26:42):
against the emotions that rileup inside of us.
I mean, aren't we supposed tocall out the wrong?
Aren't we supposed to beagainst the people we mentioned
earlier who use Jesus' name tohurt?
And we have this list of peoplewho hurt us or hurt people in
general, who we are convincedthat God actually agrees with us
(27:03):
on them, that our enemies areGod's enemies.
I love what Anne Lamott, one ofmy favorite authors writes.
She says this you can safelyassume you've created God in
your own image.
When it turns out, god hatesall the same people you do.
If we're honest, does God hatethe same people you do?
(27:23):
But what if?
Just what if God doesn't seethem the way we see them?
What if, instead of seeing themthrough the eyes of anger or
through the eyes of trauma,which is very real, or through
the eyes of hurt, which is veryreal, or through the eyes of
(27:46):
hurt, what if, instead of seeingthem through the eyes of
confusion or the eyes of rightand wrong, like we do, what if,
instead of seeing them throughthose eyes, jesus instead sees
them through the eyes of love?
The fact is, in John 5, thesePharisees thought that they were
viewing people rightly.
They thought they had the rightto judge, the right to call out
(28:08):
evil in other people.
And throughout the Gospels yousee them again and again
pointing to people and sayinglook at him, look at her.
They deserve what they aregetting.
They are not following God'sways.
But Jesus comes to them andsays in verse 43, I know you.
You don't have the love of God,the Father, in you.
You're judging other people.
(28:30):
You're claiming to be betterthan them.
But here's the deal Pharisees,you have the medal I gave you
around your neck, but so do they.
Everybody wears the medal.
So do they.
Everybody wears the medal.
You want to put Christ backinto Christian.
It's about seeing people theway my father sees them as his
kids, no matter how lost theyare, as people deserving of love
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, as people who have that medalaround their neck, just like you
.
No matter what they've done, nomatter how much you disagree
with them, no matter whatpolitical party they're a part
of, no matter how much they havehurt you, they have the medal
too.
Jesus is adamant about this andthroughout his Gospels Matthew 5
, he writes this you have heardthat it is said love your
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neighbor and hate your enemy,but I tell you, love your
enemies and pray for those whopersecute you, that you may be
children of your.
This is love.
Jesus says to love theunlovable.
Pray good for them.
In other places he said blessthem, don't curse them.
Bless them.
Leave judgment, he says inRomans 12, to God, but you, as
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much as it depends on you.
You live at peace with them.
Don't repay evil with evil.
You live at peace with them.
Don't repay evil with evil.
Instead, repay evil with good.
That's what Jesus did, jesuswho never did anything wrong to
anybody.
He was lied about, accused ofcrimes he didn't commit.
Lies were said about him,betrayed by his closest friends,
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beaten nearly to death, hung ona cross, gasping for air,
desperate for something to drink.
The Roman soldiers give himsomething to drink, but it's a
towel soaked in urine andvinegar.
In that moment, he had everyright to fight back.
In that moment, he could haveremember he's God.
He could have called down theheavenly armies to just take
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everybody out who is fightinghim.
Instead, what does he do?
He says, father, what?
Forgive them.
They have no clue what they'redoing.
In the moment that he shouldhave been angry, he showed
compassion and forgiveness.
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In June 2015, at Emanuel AMEChurch, church members gathered
in a basement just like this fortheir weekly Bible study.
The church was a predominantlyblack church, but that night
they welcomed into their group anew member, dylan Roof.
Into their group, a new member,dylan Roof.
He was a white male.
The study went on as usual forabout an hour and then Roof, the
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new attender, stood up andstarted firing.
See, roof was a neo-Nazi hopingto start a race war.
He would later admit he shot atanybody, and anybody he could
fled the scene and actually afriend of mine who had attended
my church and had moved toCharleston was one of the first
responding officers on the scene.
He said what he saw was hell onearth.
In that church basement hefound nine dead people, nine
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beautiful souls mothers, sisters, brothers, grandfathers lying
in pools of blood, all killed.
Roof was later captured and thenation was enraged.
This was in the midst of risingtensions of racial issues in
our country.
Other murders had caused riotsin cities, as I mentioned, like
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Ferguson, and the world waswaiting to see if another riot
would happen in Charleston.
A couple days after he wascaught, there was a bond hearing
and the judge, just as he does,read to Dylan, who was
appearing via video from hisprison cell, what was going to
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happen.
But the judge then gave some ofthe family members a chance to
talk and to address Dylandirectly, and family member
after family member said thesame thing.
One member said this I just wanteverybody to know that to you I
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forgive you.
You took something veryprecious away from me.
I will never talk to my momever again.
I will never be able to holdher again, but I forgive you and
have mercy on your soul.
You have hurt me.
You have hurt a lot of people,but God forgive you and I
forgive you.
Another family member stood upand said.
She said this for me I'm a workin progress.
I acknowledge that I'm veryangry, but one thing with us is
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that we are a family that lovebuilt.
We have no room for hate, so wehave to forgive.
I pray God to have mercy onyour soul.
Another person stood up andsaid although my grandfather and
other victims died at the handsof your hate, this is proof
Everyone here is pleading foryour soul that they lived and
loved and their legacies willlive and love.
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So hate won't win.
I forgive you, person afterperson, dylan, we forgive you,
person after person.
Dylan, we forgive you.
In that moment, family startedto heal.
Charleston did not erupt in ariot.
The nation saw this.
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They saw something nobody wasexpecting.
They saw the love of Christ.
Father forgive him.
He has no idea what he did.
While that story is certainlyextreme, I wonder, I just wonder
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what would happen if we weregiven the same opportunity.
What would happen if, in thisroom, the person who has hurt
you the most just stood thereand they couldn't say anything.
And you were given the mic.
What would you say?
(34:38):
What would you say to thefriend who you thought would
always be there but she betrayedyou?
What would you say to her?
What would you say to your exif he was brought in, the one
you were supposed to spend therest of your life with but
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you're not and he left?
What would you say?
What would you say to your boss, who has treated you like dirt
but she was forced to standthere silently as you had the
mic?
What would you say?
What would you say to that dadwho was supposed to be there for
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you but never was?
What would you say to the kidwho you poured your life into
but now pretends you don't exist?
What would you say to theperson who has hurt you the way
they hurt you?
What would you say?
I'm not saying there shouldn'tbe justice Dylan Roof was
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sentenced to death.
I'm not saying reconciliationis possible.
It may not be, and it may notbe wise or safe, but would you
have the love of the Father inyou, the love that Christ showed
?
Would you have the guts to saymay the Lord have mercy to you.
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Would you have the guts to saymay God bless you and keep you.
May his face shine upon you andgive you peace.
Would you have the courage tosay I forgive you.
You don't know what you did tome.
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You have no idea how much ithurt, but I forgive you Because
when we do that, christ is alive, and Christ is at the center of
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Christian life.
When I was at Northwestern University there
was a group of guys that we alllived together and we were
inseparable.
There was Poo Dog, he was thenice one.
There was Flippo, he was thecrazy one.
There was Andrew Kim, ruler ofthe gym, he was the athletic one
.
There was Hawaiian Ryan, he wasthe soft and musical one.
(00:21):
There was Miller Time, who wasthe strong one, and there was me
, dent Boy.
We don't need to know why I wascalled Dent Boy, but me Dent
Boy.
I was the religious one and Iwas unashamed of my Christianity
.
In fact they knew it.
I was kind of bold in theirface about my Christianity.
At that time I was passionate.
I would tell them all the timesabout Jesus and how they should
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follow him, and I would holdBible studies in my dorm room
and sometimes they would comeand they would say man, jason,
I've never met anybody who knowsas much about the Bible as you
do.
We even would talk about it atdifferent times.
One day we went all as a groupof guys to see Titanic.
It was a strange movie as agroup of guys, not an action
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movie.
But we went to see Titanic.
It was a strange movie as agroup of guys, not an action
movie, but we went to seeTitanic.
It was back in the 90s, as youmay imagine, and you know that
famous scene where Rose, forsome reason, leonardo DiCaprio
is on the board, but I mean,rose is on the board and Leo is
going down down, down into thewater and he passes away.
And later that night I turnedto my roommate, hawaiian Ryan,
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and I said, ryan, when I saw Leogo down into his death, I
thought about you and I thoughtabout your Christless eternity
and would you follow Jesus?
This is not the way to explainJesus to people.
He was scared, he didn't answer, it didn't go well, but he
forgave me.
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And a little bit later in thatyear, as we did every single
night at about midnight is whenwe stopped studying and we all
went down to Burger King.
So we walked down SheridanAvenue to Burger King because
they had a $2.99 Whopper mealNow it's $39.99, but back then
it was $2.99.
And we ordered our $2.99Whopper meal.
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We had it and we were walkingout and there was a homeless guy
there.
He was there every night.
We were there and he asked usfor money.
True Dog gave him some moneyand talked to him.
And then he turned to me and heasked me for the same.
Not only did I not give himmoney, I turned my back to him
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and walked away and didn't evenacknowledge that he existed.
A little bit later that night,poo Dog said to me Jason, I
thought you were all about Jesus, wasn't Jesus about helping the
poor?
And I realized in that moment,while I claimed to be a
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Christian, I had taken Christout of Christian and all I was
left with was anger and prideand judgmentalism and things
unfortunately, I had learned inmy church growing up.
I told him that you know whatGod helps those who help
themselves.
I told him he's probably anaddict.
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His choices brought him thereand I ignored the teachings of
Jesus that I'm not the one tojudge.
I ignored the teachings ofJesus where he said I have come
to proclaim good news to thepoor.
I ignored the teachings ofJesus that said I have come that
all may have rest.
See, my Jesus was really justmasquerading as Jason and I had
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taken Christ out of Christian.
Mahatma Gandhi was once askedwhy he did not call himself a
Christian.
Listen to what he said Ibelieve in the teachings of
Christ, but you on the otherside of the world do not?
I read the Bible faithfully andsee little in Christendom that
those who profess faith pretendto see.
The Christians of all othersare seeking after wealth.
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Their aim is to be rich at theexpense of their neighbors.
They come among aliens toexploit them for their own good
and cheat them to do so.
Their prosperity is far moreessential to them than the life,
liberty and happiness of others.
The Christians are the mostwarlike people.
I like your Christ, but notyour Christianity.
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In so many ways this is truetoday.
Christians have taken Christout of Christian.
We live in a country where theterm evangelical where at its
root means bearer of good news,of hope of something beautiful.
When we hear the wordevangelical now, people think of
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hatred and judgmentalism.
Christian has been synonymouswith hate and anger and
isolation.
We see this with immigrants andrefugees.
Christians are often theleading voice on the front line
celebrating the horrific actionsof kids being torn away from
their family, family members whohave not committed a crime.
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Jesus said in Matthew 25, whenyou welcome the stranger, you
welcome me, and there is verseafter verse in scripture about
welcoming immigrants andstrangers into your land.
We have taken Christ out ofChristian.
We see it as Gandhi said, inwar.
Now, war is complicated, I knowthat, but those who are
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Christians, call themselvesChristians have often, with
blind theology and incompletetheology, supported.
In Gaza, one of the greatesthumanitarian crises of our time,
where 22% of the population,470,000 people right now, are
facing starvation, malnutritionis at its peak, infrastructure
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has been destroyed, limiting theability for electricity, clean
water, sanitation and healthcare.
According to the Red Cross,52,000 people have died since
October of 2023, and the worstoff are the elderly, the women
and the children the elderly,the women and the children.
Yet many Christians are okaywith this, claiming their
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theology as the reason why We'vetaken Christ out of Christian.
I could spend years talkingabout the LGBTQ community, how,
in the name of Christianity,people have shown hatred and
bigotry and even violence.
I'll never forget when I was apastor of a church, a woman came
in and said hey, can we grabcoffee someday?
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And so we grabbed coffee andshe told me her story.
She was a trans woman and shedidn't ask for our church's
position on sexuality.
She didn't ask for a whitepaper on what do you believe
about marriage, what do youbelieve about this or that she
just simply asked me a question.
She said, jason, can I comehere?
Because I've been to churcheswhere when they find out I'm
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there, they kick me out the nextweek.
And I told her in our churchyou can have a front row seat
and one of the greatest joys ofmy time there was baptizing her
and her husband, who's apassionate follower of Jesus.
But for her, many Christianshad taken Christ out of
Christian.
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It wasn't about their stance,it was just do you love me or
not?
We could go to people of color.
Christians have been on thefront lines of being against
issues of race in the past datesback to the days of slavery,
where pastors would use theBible to justify it, or the days
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of segregation in the 50s and60s, but now as well.
I remember not too long afterthe Ferguson riots, I felt it
was necessary to speak to mychurch just on what the Bible
says about race and what Jesuscalls us to.
I didn't use any politicallycharged comments.
I just used 67 verses from thescripture to show God's desire
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for racial equity and why it'sat the core of Christianity.
And while some peopleunderstood it, the next day I
started getting lettersanonymously sent to my house
threatening my kids.
I got anonymous emails fromchurch leaders calling me a
fascist, a heretic and theantichrist.
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I soon had to have security atthe church and people tried to
get me fired.
We've taken the Christ out ofChristian For the females in the
room.
You know what this is like too.
If you go on Desiring Godwebsite right now the website
that I was told in seminary wasa great source for all things
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theological, prominent site forthousands of churches around the
country you would see multiplebooks by a man named Douglas
Wilson.
Douglas Wilson is pastor ofChrist Church in Idaho and a
leader of movement of churchesacross the United States, and
prominent figures, includingpoliticians, attend his churches
.
He recently said in aninterview with CNN that women
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are the kind of people thatpeople come out of and that
takes no talent, and he and hischurch leaders advocate for a
society where the 19th Amendmentis revoked and women should not
be allowed to vote and insteadthe husband should vote for the
household.
It's extreme that many of thewomen in this room have faced
restriction in church, inabilityto lead and abuse at home in
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the name of Christianity.
I'll never forget a seminary, afellow seminarian of mine.
She graduated summa cum laudefrom seminary and she went into
the placement office, whichhelps with placement of students
into churches, and theplacement officer laughed at her
and said what are you doinghere?
There's no jobs for you.
(10:00):
Taking Christ out of Christian.
The Christ who elevated therole of women, had women
disciples, women who financedhis ministry, who entrusted with
the message of his resurrection.
Yet we don't.
Shane Claiborne, a Christianauthor and activist, writes this
when someone asks us if we areChristians, I think the best
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answer is to tell them to askthe poor, the incarcerated, the
immigrants, the refugees, thewidows and the orphans, the
least of these.
They will tell you who theChristians are.
See, when we take Christ out ofChristian, we're left with
nationalism, judgmentalism.
The Christian we're left withnationalism, judgmentalism,
isolationism, sexism, racism,classism, anything but Christian
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.
But this is much more personalthan just something globally or
nationally or politically.
It's personal for a lot of us.
I could tell you of a woman Iknow whose husband emotionally
abused her and controlled herevery move.
He didn't let her have money,he tracked her every move, left
her broken in a shell and when Iconfronted him on it he said
well, jason, I'm the head of thehousehold.
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I'm supposed to lead it asChrist led the church.
And I said that's not howChrist led the church.
He gave himself up for her.
He didn't control her.
He had taken Christ out ofChristian.
I could tell you my own storyof how, a few years ago I mean
you know my life imploded froman addiction.
I was hesitant about going backinto church.
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I had moved down to the Chicagoarea and while I was still
connected with Madison Churchwhich was awesome, you're a bit
far away, so I couldn't come uphere every Sunday and so I went
and I said I'll give church atry again.
I had hurt church, but I'd alsobeen hurt deeply by church.
And so I went and the pastorthere gave an amazing message
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about grace and redemption andforgiveness and second chances.
And I remember sitting there inthe pews just crying, grateful
I'd found a safe place.
I decided to take the next stepand sign up for a small group.
Even though I didn't reallywant to.
I thought I should you knowthey tell me to do this, that
I'll go to hell if I don't.
(12:12):
So I'll just do this.
And so I signed up for a smallgroup.
I got a call from one of theleaders of the small group
ministry and he said let's meeton Wednesday night to talk about
your application for smallgroup ministry, to be in a small
group.
And I thought, oh great, thismust be kind of a personal way
they introduce people to smallgroups.
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And I walked through the doorand the first thing he said
wasn't hi, it wasn't hey, we'reglad you're here.
He said I know who you are, Iknow your story and you can't be
a part of our groups.
Even though I had never brokena law, I'd never prayed on
anybody in my congregation, Ihad never done anything with
anybody that would in any sensekeep me from small group
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ministry.
I was broken goods taking Christout of Christian.
Many of you here have similarstories Family members who are
the most adamant about churchand Bible but the most abusive
towards you.
Friends who use the Bible as aweapon against you.
Churches who, in the name of,hurt you and left you hanging
out to dry and if that's thecase, I'm so sorry.
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That's not Christianity.
In so many ways and so manyforms we've taken Christ out of
Christian.
This problem is nothing new.
We're in a series calledPharisee and Me looking at these
religious leaders, thesepastors, these priests, these
spiritual authorities who livelives marked not by grace and
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mercy and love, but byjudgmentalism, hatred and
bigotry.
In John, chapter 5, jesus comes,and I love Jesus.
He doesn't mince his words withthese leaders, he calls them
out on it.
Look at John, chapter 5, verse36.
He says this I have testimonyweightier than that of John For
the works that the Father hasgiven me to finish, the very
works that I am doing testifythat the Father has sent me, and
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the Father who sent me himselfhas himself testified concerning
me.
You never heard his voice, norseen his form, nor does his word
dwell in you, for you do notbelieve the one he sent.
You study the scriptures Now.
Don't miss this.
You study the scripturesdiligently because you think
dwell in you, for you do notbelieve the one he sent.
You study the scriptures Now.
Don't miss this.
You study the scripturesdiligently because you think
that in them you have eternallife.
These are the very scripturesthat testify about me, yet you
(14:28):
refuse to come to me to havelife.
That's a lot of words, but whatJesus is essentially saying is
you know the Bible, you have theverses, you claim the religious
high ground.
But you've missed the pointaltogether.
In fact, a little later in thepassage, he says you follow the
words of Moses.
But Moses was about me.
(14:50):
He was pointing people to thecoming Messiah.
I'm the focus, not some laws,not some who's in, who's out,
who's right, who's wrong gameyou are playing.
No, it's about me.
Always has been, always will be.
Those Psalms that David wrote,they're about me.
Those prophecies that were inthe Old Testament, they're about
me.
Yet you have missed it.
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You have taken Christ.
They had these words back thenout of Christian.
John would write this earlierin his gospel.
John very first words of hisgospel in the beginning was the
word, and the word was with Godand the word was God.
He's talking about Jesus here.
He was with God in thebeginning.
Through him, all things weremade.
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Without him, nothing was made.
That has been made In him waslife, and that life was the
light of all mankind.
The light shines in thedarkness and the darkness.
And that word, jesus, peoplehad often missed it.
Jesus was saying that I am theword.
He's saying Don't use thesewords for other things.
(15:55):
Use them to point them to me.
And it's easy for us when wehear these examples that I
talked about earlier or we readwhat the Pharisees are doing
here, it's easy for us to shakeour heads and say how can they
miss it?
How can they take Christ out ofChristian?
But remember, this series isnot the Pharisee and our
politician, it's not thePharisee and the people who hurt
(16:17):
us.
Pharisee and our politician.
It's not the Pharisee and thepeople who hurt us.
No, stephen chose the title ofthe series to be the Pharisee in
me.
I'm a Pharisee.
All of us have a Phariseeinside of us.
Will we miss the pointaltogether?
All of us in some way, big orsmall, take Christ out of
(16:39):
Christian.
So the question remains if weclaim to be Christian, how do we
make sure Christ is actually inthe center of the Christian
entity we live out?
Jesus gives the answer to this,and it's powerfully simple and
powerfully hard.
I do not accept the glory fromhuman beings, he says in verse
41, but I know you.
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I know that you do not have thelove of God in your hearts.
Jesus is saying the reasonyou're missing me is you're
missing love, one of the wordsof the great theologians, the
Black Eyed Peas.
Where is the love?
(17:21):
I mean.
That's what Jesus was about.
People asked him what's all theOld Testament laws, what are
they all about?
He said let me just put it onthe table for you Love God, love
others.
It's as simple and as difficultas that.
And so if you and I are ever toput Christ into our Christian,
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we have to be about love.
It's not complex, but it's noteasy the first thing we need to
do.
There's many things we can talkabout, but let me just talk
about a couple of things thismorning.
We have to accept Christ's love.
Stop trying to earn it.
We have to accept Christ's love.
Stop trying to earn it.
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See, the life of a Pharisee is alife that always is desperate
for people's love andaffirmation.
Jesus pointed this out rightafter saying they are missing
love.
Look at what he says, verse 43,for I have come to you in my
father's name and you haverejected me.
Yet if others come in their ownname, you gladly welcome them.
No wonder you can't believe,for you gladly honor each other,
but you don't care about thehonor that comes from the one
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who, alone, is God.
He's saying you're living yourlife dependent on acceptance of
others.
You are living trying to proveto them that you are good, that
you are something, but youmissed the whole point.
No wonder you can't believe.
Your whole life was pointed tothem to gain their approval.
You've forgotten who you are.
In me and I read this and Ithink how could they be so blind
(18:52):
?
Why are they so focused on theapproval of other people?
But I remember most of my lifewas lived that way.
I've shared a bit of the storywith some of you before, but it
bears repeating.
I grew up in a seeminglyperfect family.
My dad was a vice president atMichigan State University.
He won regularly awards forbeing the best fundraiser in
(19:16):
higher education in the nation.
He led a $1.5 billion campaignStephen, you should talk to him
about the giving here at thechurch, but he was amazing.
He was the chairman of ourelder board at church.
People loved him.
He was one of those guys thatjust had it and he still has it.
People love my dad.
He's extremely successful andan awesome person to boot.
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My mom was just as impressive.
She was a stay-at-home mom formuch of my life, but
stay-at-home mom for her meantthat she did everything and
anything in the community andshe ran the largest women's
ministry in our city.
She could preach and then justfor kicks.
When I was in high school shewent and got her master's and
did a whole second career juston top of that, my brother my
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brother's just annoying.
I mean, I love him most of thetime, but he was perfect at
everything.
He was an all-athlete ateverything.
He was an all-state.
I didn't even know you could bethis.
He was an all-state musicianand he dated my friends, which
(20:25):
was really annoying, even thoughhe was a little bit older.
But there's one thing that hewasn't perfect at he didn't have
a perfect 4.0 GPA, he just hada 3.97.
So I thought I can beat that.
And even though we went to thenumber one ranked school in the
state of Michigan, I decided I'mgoing to get a 4.0, no matter
what it takes.
And so every day in my highschool and this is not an
(20:48):
exaggeration every day I wouldcome home from 3.30 until 11.30,
I would study.
My parents actually had to puta limit on how much I was
allowed to study.
I know that's sick and twisted,but it's my life.
After I graduated from highschool, I would actually study
on this love seat in our familyroom.
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They actually had to throw thelove seat away because I'd worn
a hole in it from sitting therefor so long.
But lo and behold, my senioryear.
I graduated with a 4.0.
I had destroyed my brother andI got this medal that was put
(21:29):
around my neck that proudlystates I am valedictorian.
I remember how good that feltfor 20 minutes.
And then I went home and Irealized well, what's next?
(21:50):
What other medals do I need toget now?
People are clapping for me now,but they're not going to keep
clapping for me.
And so I need to get now.
And people are clapping for menow, but they're not going to
keep clapping for me.
And so I went to seminary and Iwent to grads, undergrad, and I
went to seminary and said well,I got to graduate number one.
And so I got another medal andgraduated number one there.
And then, when I was statingthis outwardly, I actually wrote
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this down somewhere that I needto be a pastor of a megachurch
by the time I'm 35.
And I accomplished that.
I got another medal.
But then the medals stoppedcoming, and the more they
stopped coming and the more Ididn't know what to do.
My marriage, which was a medalin itself, was falling apart and
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soon that medal felt like itwas being taken away.
For the first time in my career, I was being criticized by
people and in that moment, whenI started to lose my medals, I
went into addiction and I lostlose my medals.
I went into addiction.
I lost all my medals.
I lost my job, my marriage, myreputation.
(23:05):
I found myself sitting in theArizona desert at a rehab center
asking who am I now that Idon't have this?
See, our problem is that we liveour lives trying to get and
keep our medals.
We may get them for a bid, wemay get them in relationships.
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She, she's into you and for awhile it's amazing she puts that
medal of acceptance around yourneck.
She's your person, until she'snot, and she rips that medal off
you and you wonder whathappened.
Maybe you get it in a careerfor that time.
(23:50):
In your job, you get thepromotion.
You're going up high in yourcareer, you're climbing that
ladder, you get that medal.
You get medal after medal untilyou don't, until you lose that
job.
You may have it with your kids.
They want to be with you asmuch as possible, and then they
get older and life getscomplicated and they don't want
(24:11):
to be with you and that medalyou had around your neck is
taken away again.
You may have done wellfinancially lots of medals, gold
medals.
Your portfolio is strong, youhave the house, you have the
cars, you have the vacations,until you don't you lose that
medal.
But maybe we don't lose ourmedals, maybe life is good and
(24:36):
we just keep adding more andmore and more medals.
But the more we add, theheavier they get and the more
pressure we put on ourselves tokeep them around our necks.
Let me ask you what medals doyou have?
What medals are you sodesperately trying to get?
Which ones have you lost?
(24:56):
Which ones are you trying tohold on to?
I mean, these things aren't bad,don't get me wrong.
Relationships are good, successis good, careers are good,
financial blessings are good.
But when we hang our worth onthat, jesus says you've missed
the whole point.
Stop trying to look to otherpeople for your honor, jesus
(25:17):
says in John, chapter 5.
Instead, realize that from theday you were born, I put a medal
around your neck and it doesn'tsay CEO, it doesn't say
valedictorian on it, it doesn'tsay any of it, it just simply
says child of God.
And that medal never leavesyour neck.
(25:39):
You don't have to get otherthings.
Those things will come and theywill go, but you always have
this you were loved by me.
It doesn't matter what othermedals you get.
Want to put Christ intoChristian.
Accept that.
(26:00):
Stop trying so dang hard toprove to other people.
You're worth something.
You are worth something.
So accept Christ's love.
Stop trying to earn it.
The second thing and the lastthing we'll focus on today is
(26:21):
show Christ's love, even if theydon't deserve it.
That's the hard one.
That's what Kyle spoke of acouple of weeks ago in a great
message.
I encourage you to go listen tothat.
But perhaps the greatest way wecan show Christ in us is loving
people who don't deserve it.
But the problem is and let'sjust be honest here that goes
(26:42):
against the emotions that rileup inside of us.
I mean, aren't we supposed tocall out the wrong?
Aren't we supposed to beagainst the people we mentioned
earlier who use Jesus' name tohurt?
And we have this list of peoplewho hurt us or hurt people in
general, who we are convincedthat God actually agrees with us
(27:03):
on them, that our enemies areGod's enemies.
I love what Anne Lamott, one ofmy favorite authors writes.
She says this you can safelyassume you've created God in
your own image.
When it turns out, god hatesall the same people you do.
If we're honest, does God hatethe same people you do?
(27:23):
But what if?
Just what if God doesn't seethem the way we see them?
What if, instead of seeing themthrough the eyes of anger or
through the eyes of trauma,which is very real, or through
the eyes of hurt, which is veryreal, or through the eyes of
(27:46):
hurt, what if, instead of seeingthem through the eyes of
confusion or the eyes of rightand wrong, like we do, what if,
instead of seeing them throughthose eyes, jesus instead sees
them through the eyes of love?
The fact is, in John 5, thesePharisees thought that they were
viewing people rightly.
They thought they had the rightto judge, the right to call out
(28:08):
evil in other people.
And throughout the Gospels yousee them again and again
pointing to people and sayinglook at him, look at her.
They deserve what they aregetting.
They are not following God'sways.
But Jesus comes to them andsays in verse 43, I know you.
You don't have the love of God,the Father, in you.
You're judging other people.
(28:30):
You're claiming to be betterthan them.
But here's the deal Pharisees,you have the medal I gave you
around your neck, but so do they.
Everybody wears the medal.
So do they.
Everybody wears the medal.
You want to put Christ backinto Christian.
It's about seeing people theway my father sees them as his
kids, no matter how lost theyare, as people deserving of love
(28:53):
, as people who have that medalaround their neck, just like you
.
No matter what they've done, nomatter how much you disagree
with them, no matter whatpolitical party they're a part
of, no matter how much they havehurt you, they have the medal
too.
Jesus is adamant about this andthroughout his Gospels Matthew 5
, he writes this you have heardthat it is said love your
(29:20):
neighbor and hate your enemy,but I tell you, love your
enemies and pray for those whopersecute you, that you may be
children of your.
This is love.
Jesus says to love theunlovable.
Pray good for them.
In other places he said blessthem, don't curse them.
Bless them.
Leave judgment, he says inRomans 12, to God, but you, as
(29:41):
much as it depends on you.
You live at peace with them.
Don't repay evil with evil.
You live at peace with them.
Don't repay evil with evil.
Instead, repay evil with good.
That's what Jesus did, jesuswho never did anything wrong to
anybody.
He was lied about, accused ofcrimes he didn't commit.
Lies were said about him,betrayed by his closest friends,
(30:01):
beaten nearly to death, hung ona cross, gasping for air,
desperate for something to drink.
The Roman soldiers give himsomething to drink, but it's a
towel soaked in urine andvinegar.
In that moment, he had everyright to fight back.
In that moment, he could haveremember he's God.
He could have called down theheavenly armies to just take
(30:22):
everybody out who is fightinghim.
Instead, what does he do?
He says, father, what?
Forgive them.
They have no clue what they'redoing.
In the moment that he shouldhave been angry, he showed
compassion and forgiveness.
(30:46):
In June 2015, at Emanuel AMEChurch, church members gathered
in a basement just like this fortheir weekly Bible study.
The church was a predominantlyblack church, but that night
they welcomed into their group anew member, dylan Roof.
Into their group, a new member,dylan Roof.
He was a white male.
The study went on as usual forabout an hour and then Roof, the
(31:16):
new attender, stood up andstarted firing.
See, roof was a neo-Nazi hopingto start a race war.
He would later admit he shot atanybody, and anybody he could
fled the scene and actually afriend of mine who had attended
my church and had moved toCharleston was one of the first
responding officers on the scene.
He said what he saw was hell onearth.
In that church basement hefound nine dead people, nine
(31:41):
beautiful souls mothers, sisters, brothers, grandfathers lying
in pools of blood, all killed.
Roof was later captured and thenation was enraged.
This was in the midst of risingtensions of racial issues in
our country.
Other murders had caused riotsin cities, as I mentioned, like
(32:02):
Ferguson, and the world waswaiting to see if another riot
would happen in Charleston.
A couple days after he wascaught, there was a bond hearing
and the judge, just as he does,read to Dylan, who was
appearing via video from hisprison cell, what was going to
(32:23):
happen.
But the judge then gave some ofthe family members a chance to
talk and to address Dylandirectly, and family member
after family member said thesame thing.
One member said this I just wanteverybody to know that to you I
(32:49):
forgive you.
You took something veryprecious away from me.
I will never talk to my momever again.
I will never be able to holdher again, but I forgive you and
have mercy on your soul.
You have hurt me.
You have hurt a lot of people,but God forgive you and I
forgive you.
Another family member stood upand said.
She said this for me I'm a workin progress.
I acknowledge that I'm veryangry, but one thing with us is
(33:11):
that we are a family that lovebuilt.
We have no room for hate, so wehave to forgive.
I pray God to have mercy onyour soul.
Another person stood up andsaid although my grandfather and
other victims died at the handsof your hate, this is proof
Everyone here is pleading foryour soul that they lived and
loved and their legacies willlive and love.
(33:34):
So hate won't win.
I forgive you, person afterperson, dylan, we forgive you,
person after person.
Dylan, we forgive you.
In that moment, family startedto heal.
Charleston did not erupt in ariot.
The nation saw this.
(33:55):
They saw something nobody wasexpecting.
They saw the love of Christ.
Father forgive him.
He has no idea what he did.
While that story is certainlyextreme, I wonder, I just wonder
(34:16):
what would happen if we weregiven the same opportunity.
What would happen if, in thisroom, the person who has hurt
you the most just stood thereand they couldn't say anything.
And you were given the mic.
What would you say?
(34:38):
What would you say to thefriend who you thought would
always be there but she betrayedyou?
What would you say to her?
What would you say to your exif he was brought in, the one
you were supposed to spend therest of your life with but
(34:58):
you're not and he left?
What would you say?
What would you say to your boss, who has treated you like dirt
but she was forced to standthere silently as you had the
mic?
What would you say?
What would you say to that dadwho was supposed to be there for
(35:20):
you but never was?
What would you say to the kidwho you poured your life into
but now pretends you don't exist?
What would you say to theperson who has hurt you the way
they hurt you?
What would you say?
I'm not saying there shouldn'tbe justice Dylan Roof was
(35:42):
sentenced to death.
I'm not saying reconciliationis possible.
It may not be, and it may notbe wise or safe, but would you
have the love of the Father inyou, the love that Christ showed
?
Would you have the guts to saymay the Lord have mercy to you.
(36:04):
Would you have the guts to saymay God bless you and keep you.
May his face shine upon you andgive you peace.
Would you have the courage tosay I forgive you.
You don't know what you did tome.
(36:24):
You have no idea how much ithurt, but I forgive you Because
when we do that, christ is alive, and Christ is at the center of
(36:45):
Christian life.
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