July 16, 2025 • 43 mins
Have you ever been terrified by end-times prophecies based on Revelation? You're not alone. Randy Knie vividly recalls sitting on his parents' bed at 13, trembling as he read a newsletter predicting imminent apocalypse—supposedly decoded straight from Revelation's pages. This traumatic experience mirrors countless others who've either become obsessed with this mysterious biblical book or avoid it entirely.
But what if Revelation isn't primarily about predicting when the world ends? What if it's actually a revolutionary message about where we place our allegiance in a world of competing powers?
In this illuminating exploration, Randy unpacks Revelation as "apocalyptic" literature—not meaning catastrophic destruction, but rather an "unveiling" of what's really happening behind world events. Written to persecuted Christians under Roman oppression, Revelation uses coded imagery that would be recognized by believers but missed by authorities.
The heart of Revelation centers not on fearsome beasts but on "a Lamb that looked as if it had been slaughtered." This unexpected protagonist creates a profound counter-narrative to empire's violent power. Meanwhile, the beasts from sea and earth represent not specific individuals but timeless systems of war, violence, and economic exploitation that demand human allegiance throughout history.
Most striking is the final battle scene where Jesus appears already covered in blood before the fighting begins—his own sacrificial blood, not his enemies'. This radical inversion challenges popular interpretations of a vengeful warrior Christ and reveals a victory achieved not through domination but through self-sacrifice.
What does this mean for us today? In a polarized society where political leaders, media voices, and national identities demand our unwavering loyalty, Revelation boldly asks: where does your true allegiance lie? Join us in discovering how this ancient text speaks with surprising relevance to our modern struggles with power, violence, and competing claims on our hearts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Again.
My name is Randy Nye.
I'm the lead pastor at BrewCity Church in downtown
Milwaukee area.
Brew City sends their love.
They're interested that there'schurches like ours in the state
of Wisconsin.
How about that?
We love partnering togetherwith you.
We love knowing that you guysexist and I love being here.
My family is here.
I have my wife, sarah, and thenfour kids.
(00:22):
I'm not going to say theirnames and embarrass them, but my
daughter I will embarrass.
It's the great joy of my life.
One of the great joys of mylife is embarrassing my kids,
not sorry.
And my daughter is going to bemoving to Madison in less than
two months and going toUW-Madison.
So let's, yes, get one ofwhatever.
(00:42):
Yes, do you mind if I pray?
Is that all right, god?
I'm grateful for the church.
I'm grateful that we get tothat there's all these
expressions of your body, ofwhat it means to follow you and
be your people, jesus, of whatit means to follow you and be
(01:05):
your people, jesus.
And I'm grateful that I candrive an hour west in Wisconsin
and be with the people who arecalled by name and who follow
you, jesus, and who are tryingto take you and your gospel and
this idea of being the churchseriously.
I'm grateful that I get to beshaped and formed by the church
(01:25):
and all her beauty and diversityand complexity, that my family
gets to be the same thing,formed and shaped by you and by
your bride, jesus, and I justask that you would continually
call us to yourselves, jesus,continually call us to
(01:46):
yourselves, jesus.
There's so many voices in thisworld calling for our attention,
demanding our allegiance.
I ask that you, jesus, wouldbreak through all of those
voices and call our attentionand faithfulness and allegiance
to you, the Lamb, who was slain,who has conquered all things.
(02:10):
It's in your name, jesus, thatwe pray.
Amen.
So I grew up in a very normalevangelical home.
I was born in 1978.
So through the 80s and 90s.
(02:31):
I grew up in a shelteredChristian home where I had a
Lutheran dad and a Baptist mom,so I knew all the hymns.
I was a church kid.
I went to Lutheran gradeschools, but my family had a
very evangelical feel and Iremember I have a strong memory
(02:55):
of sitting on my parents' bedone day and a family member had
given me this newsletter from apastor in New York City and this
family member said you need toread this.
We all need to read this.
And by newsletter I don't meanan email newsletter, I mean like
a trifold that you had to openit up and read it.
And this newsletter, basically,was telling me that the end of
(03:22):
the world was imminent.
One of those newsletters haveyou ever read one?
It was telling me all thethings that were about to happen
.
And this pastor that wrote thisnewsletter that my family
member said you have to readthis and remember I'm 13 years
old thereabout I remembersitting on my parents' bed by
(03:46):
myself reading this newsletterwhich was telling me that the
world is going to end, how itwas going to end.
It was going to end after abunch of tribulation for the
church.
Things are going to get reallybad for Christians.
A great persecution is going tohappen in all the things.
And I remember it so clearlybecause I was so terrified, I
(04:12):
was not knowing whether I shouldbelieve this, but I've trusted
the family member who gave it tome, and this person who wrote
the newsletter was speaking andsaying the reason that I'm
telling you and forecasting andprophesying and predicting these
events in the end of the world,in the end times, is because
it's clearly marked out where Inthe book of Revelation right,
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it's all right there In plainEnglish to be seen.
It said and it terrified me asa 13-year-old who felt like I
had a lot of life to live.
I wasn't excited about thisimpending end of the world.
(04:55):
I'm pretty sure it was withinthe next like one to three years
.
I don't remember theparticulars, but I remember that
feeling inside of me.
I don't remember theparticulars, but I remember that
feeling inside of me.
See, the book of Revelation hasbeen used in all the ways that
terrify Stephen when a guestpastor comes and talks about it.
(05:15):
The book of Revelation is isthere a book in the Bible that's
been abused more than the bookof Revelation?
Is there a book of the Biblethat has repulsed more people
away from the church and awayfrom the scriptures and away
from Christianity, the person ofJesus, more than the book of
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Revelation?
Also, the book of Revelationhas made a lot of people a lot
of money.
You know what I'm talking about.
Anybody read the Left Behindseries.
You can admit it.
It's okay.
Forgiveness is alive and wellin Jesus.
There's all like.
(05:58):
The Left Behind series soldmillions of copies, turned into
a really ill-fated movie series.
I'm sorry if there's any fanshere of Kirk Cameron, but it's
not just the Left Behind series,I mean.
There's this cottage industryof end times, prophecies and
predictions that come acrossvery, very confidently, that
have traumatized many other13-year-olds, just like myself.
(06:21):
And so when it comes to thechurch and you think about the
book of Revelation, you eitherlove it or hate it.
Usually, if you love it, thatmeans you probably treat it kind
of like astrology or ahoroscope, reading the signs to
(06:41):
see when the end times arecoming.
And man, I'm sorry if I'moffending anyone by saying this,
or if that's not you and you'relike me and you were
traumatized in some ways by thebook of Revelation.
Maybe you want nothing to dowith the book of Revelation.
It's that book of the Biblethat you just kind of leave over
(07:04):
to the side.
I'll leave it alone if itleaves me alone.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
So why am I talking about thebook of Revelation?
As I've been occupying space andliving in this world for the
(07:25):
last, for this last time, forthis last season of life right
now, in our world, in our nation, I've been thinking about the
book of Revelation and I knowthat's a dangerous thing for me
to say, because many of the say,because many of the
(07:49):
quote-unquote prophets who talkabout the book of Revelation say
something exactly like I justsaid.
I've been thinking about thebook of Revelation lately, but I
want to tell you really truly,I've been thinking about the
book of Revelation as I've seenwhat's happening in our world.
I think the book of Revelationhas something to teach us.
I think the book of Revelationhas an invitation for us as a
(08:12):
church today, and not just today, but I think the book of
Revelation wants to form andshape us and tell us how to live
in the midst of the world thatwe live in today.
See, I wound up falling in lovewith the book of Revelation
when I actually started studyingit and I found that there is
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power and life and beauty andrevolutionary goodness in the
book of Revelation If we'reactually listening and if we
actually pay attention to goodbiblical scholars.
So let me just contextualize thebook of Revelation just a brief
moment.
I'm talking like real flyovertype contextualization.
(08:53):
Just who wrote it?
Who is it for?
When it was written?
That kind of thing?
All right, real quick.
So the book of Revelation waswritten by who?
We know the guy's name was JohnJohn the Revelator, if we're
going to be fancy about it, john, saint John was exiled in the
Isle of Patmos and the Spirit ofGod gave John this apocalyptic
vision.
We're going to talk about whatapocalyptic means in a moment.
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But this guy, john John theRevelator, we don't know exactly
who he was.
Some think that John was theJohn the beloved disciple, the
same guy who maybe wrote thegospel of John.
We don't know if those two werethe same person either, but
maybe the guy who wrote thegospel of John also wrote the
book of Revelation.
(09:36):
Some scholars think that's thecase.
Other scholars think it's atotally different John.
John was a very common name inthe ancient Near East.
So we don't know exactly.
But this John the Revelator,who wrote the letter of
Revelation to these sevenchurches which there might have
been, particularly sevenchurches in Asia Minor that were
(09:57):
literally written to Seven isalso a very, very symbolic and
rich number in the book ofRevelation, if you know the book
of Revelation.
So John, this guy, receives thisvision to give to the church in
the specific time-space moments, and the people that this book
(10:21):
was written to were the earlychurch.
It was written in the laterhalf, later part of the first
century in the 90s-ish, and theguy who was the ruler of the
world of the Roman Empire atthis point his name is Domitian.
We think Domitian ruledprobably a little bit more than
a decade after Nero and if youknow church history at all, you
(10:42):
know Nero was really awful tothe early church I'm talking.
Nero was consumed with hatredfor Jesus and the church and
wanted to wipe the church out.
It was a nightmare time to bethe church to follow Jesus in
the Roman Empire when Nero wasCaesar.
Now, a couple Caesars later,domitian is the Caesar in the
(11:06):
90s-ish and he's kind of pickingup where Nero left off.
He's persecuting the churchagain.
So the reality, the situationthat the book of Revelation is
written in, is that people likethis as a matter of fact,
meeting underground in manytimes in the ancient Near East.
(11:26):
But meeting underground notbecause it's cheap rent or a
good space to meet when a churchis meeting at nine o'clock in
the morning or something likethat but because maybe if they
knew that we were meetingtogether, they would want to
bring us before the powers thatbe and murder us and our
families, kidnap the pastor thatbe and murder us and our
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families, kidnap the pastor I'mtalking.
The most powerful person in themost powerful empire in the
world has set themselves againstthe church.
And so the book of Revelationis this prophetic, apocalyptic
vision that's given to this mannamed John to give to the
churches.
And apocalyptic means something.
So let's think about for amoment what that word apocalypse
means.
Apocalypse does not mean justthe end of the world.
(12:10):
Apocalyptic literature isbasically an unveiling of what's
really going on in the world,right?
So the book of Revelation iscalled the Revelation of St John
.
The actual, literal word forthat, instead of Revelation, is
it's the apocalypse of St John,the apocalypse.
And what that means is that Godgave John this vision.
(12:34):
The spirit of God gave Johnthis vision in which John gets
to see what's really going on inthe course of human history.
An apocalyptic letter is onethat kind of takes the veil back
on what's happening in thecourse of human history.
An apocalyptic letter is onethat kind of takes the veil back
on what's happening in theworld.
We see what's happening in theworld.
There's war in the Middle Eastand there's war in Eastern
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Europe and there's tumultuousstuff happening in the United
States of America.
This is what's happening on thesurface.
An apocalyptic vision is onewhere God says I want to show
you what's going on behind thecurtain.
I want to show you what'sreally happening, who these
leaders in your world really are, what they're really like, and
I want to show you what'sultimately going to happen in
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the course of human history.
Who wins.
Does that make sense?
Apocalyptic literature is anunveiling of what's really
happening, peeling back of thecurtain to show you what God
sees in human history, how Godsees the current events that are
happening now.
Are we on the same page?
And it's this apocalypticvision that John gets from the
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Spirit of God in code, purposely, because it needs to be.
It's a subversive message inthe book of Revelation to
encourage a church and a peoplewho are being hunted and
persecuted by the Roman Empire.
This is why it's apocalyptic,because it needs to be written
in code in a way that the peoplewho were intended to read it,
(14:06):
the target audience, wouldunderstand.
But everybody else doesn't.
And you know what the code is.
It's the images and symbols ofthe Old Testament, of the Hebrew
Scriptures.
See, one of the reasons wedon't understand the book of
Revelation is because we don'tunderstand the Hebrew Scriptures
Right.
The book of Revelation is notthe only apocalyptic book in the
(14:31):
Bible.
If you don't understand thebook of Daniel in the Old
Testament, you're never going tounderstand the book of
Revelation.
They are very, very similar andmany of the images in
Revelation you find originallyin the book of Daniel and the
writer expects us to know them.
It's going to be really hard tokind of understand this
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apocalyptic visions and symbolsand metaphors if we don't
understand the Old Testament.
But it's written in code forand to a persecuted church to
encourage them and to tell them.
This is what's really happeningin your moments and this is
where all of history is heading.
Are we on the same page now?
This is the book of Revelationand I want to do just this real
(15:14):
quick, deep dive.
I want to give you, show you, acouple of characters from the
book of Revelation who I thinkwe need to know about, the
reasons why I've been thinkingabout Revelation the last
several months.
So let's dive in.
And the first person I want totell you about, the first thing
I want to tell you about in thebook of Revelation, is who the
main character is.
Okay, who's the main characterin the book of Revelation?
(15:38):
There are some crazy, wackywild characters in the book of
Revelation.
I'm talking animals that haveone that has the head of an
eagle and the feet of a bear and10 horns and 10 eyes eyes all
around their bodies wild things.
But there's one image in thebook of Revelation who is the
(16:02):
main character in the book ofRevelation and it's easy to miss
.
But we meet the main characterof the book of Revelation in
Revelation 5.
So let's go there and turn toRevelation 5.
I think it's verse 1.
Do we have it up there?
Perfect, this is John.
John gets beamed into thethrone room of God in the
(16:25):
heavenly reality, or realm ifyou will, and that kind of seems
to be all around.
Just so you know.
But I don't have time to gointo that.
But here we go, revelation 5.
Then I saw a scroll.
This is John saying this Johnthe Revelator.
Then I saw a scroll in theright hand of the one who was
sitting on the throne God theAlmighty.
There was written on the insideand outside of the scroll and
it was sealed with seven seals.
(16:46):
Imagine, like a wax seal on aletter.
Have you ever seen that kind offancy old thing that's the
seven seals.
And I saw a strong angel whoshouted with a loud voice who is
worthy to break the seals onthe scroll and open it?
But no one in heaven or onearth or under the earth was
able to open the scroll and readit.
We're supposed to feel thetension in this moment.
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There's something in thisscroll that needs to get up, but
no one can or is worthy to openit.
It's like the sword and thestone.
No one can do it.
Then I began to weep bitterlybecause no one was found worthy
to open the scroll and read it.
Do you hear the emotion there?
But one of the 24 elders whoworships before the throne day
(17:31):
and night said to me stopweeping.
Look, the lion of the tribe ofJudah, the heir to David's
throne, has won the victory.
He is worthy to open the scrolland its seven seals.
Then I saw a lamb that lookedas if it had been slaughtered.
Now here's something fun thathappens in the book of
Revelation pretty regularly.
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John will say I heard someonesaid this.
He said hey, don't worry, thelion of the tribe of Judah, he
is conquered, he is able to openthe scroll.
That's what John heard.
But then he looks and hedoesn't see a lion actually, but
he sees the main character ofthe book of Revelation.
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See, because the main characterof the book of Revelation is
this really ironic image, thatis, a lamb that looked as if it
had been slaughtered.
Do you know what a slaughteredlamb looks like?
It's this lamb that has had itsthroat slit and has blood
everywhere.
It's a very, very unlikelyimage to be the protagonist in
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this epic book with beasts andcreatures.
The main character in the bookof Revelation is this lamb that
looked as if it had beenslaughtered, but it was now
standing between the throne andthe four living beings, among
the 24 elders.
He had seven horns and seveneyes, which represent the
sevenfold spirit of God that issent out into every part of the
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earth.
He stepped forward and took thescroll from the slaughtered
lamb, stepped forward, took thescroll from the right hand of
the one sitting on the throne,and when he took the scroll from
the right hand of the onesitting on the throne and when
he took the scroll, the fourliving beings and the 24 elders
fell down before the lamb.
Each one had a harp and theyheld golden bowls filled with
incense, which are the prayersof God's people, and they sang a
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new song with these words youare worthy, the slaughtered lamb
.
You are worthy to take thescroll and break its seals and
open it, for you are slaughteredand your blood has what the
people of God look like.
That's what the people of Godlook like, a people from every
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tribe and language and peopleand nation.
See right off the bat, rightwhen we hear about who the Lamb
is and what the Lamb has done.
It's subversive.
Why have I been thinking aboutRevelation?
Let's start connecting the dots, and you have caused them to
(20:05):
become a kingdom of priests forour God, and they will reign on
the earth.
The main character of the bookof Revelation, friends, are not
these fantastic and awful beaststhat we find in the book of
Revelation.
The main character in the bookof Revelation is not the dragon
who comes to wage war on theearth and on God's people.
The main character of the bookof Revelation are not the
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churches.
Even the main character of thebook of Revelation is here's the
Sunday school answer Jesus.
But it's this particular visionof Jesus.
It's Jesus, the slaughteredlamb, and not just the
slaughtered lamb, but in themidst of this empire that is
hunting down the church andpersecuting God's people.
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The empire, the one whoslaughtered this lamb, is the
empire.
The one who slaughtered Jesuson the cross, is this empire who
set itself against the peopleof God.
Now talk about an ironic maincharacter to a book, main
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character to a book.
The book's written in thesubversive way, encoded language
to a people who are beinghunted down and persecuted by
the empire for following Jesus.
And the main character of thebook is one who has been killed
and slaughtered by the empire.
See, because in God's economy,in the book of Revelation,
that's what victory looks like.
We need to learn from theseimages, friends.
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These images want to teach ussomething and these images say
if you want to achieve victoryin this world and in God's
kingdom, it is not the way ofthe beast.
If you want to achieve victoryin this world, it's the way of
the beast.
If you want to achieve victoryin this world, it's the way of
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the slaughtered lamb.
It's the way of the one wholaid his life down in the face
of all the injustice andoppression the empire could
throw at him and went quietly.
Who laid down his life for hisenemies, even the empire.
This is the main character ofthe book of Revelation and we
need to learn from this maincharacter.
Let's keep going.
Can we keep going?
I could go, I could.
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We could have some fun there.
But there's more here, allright.
So let's move on to these, thetwo kind of antagonists and
there's a number of them.
I'm going to just highlight twomajor ones from Revelation 13.
Of them, I'm going to justhighlight two major ones from
Revelation 13.
Now is when stuff gets juicy.
All right, we've got aslaughtered lamb, that's the
main character.
But we've got a couple ofbeasts.
So let's go.
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I think it is Revelation 13.
Is that right?
What's your name, by the way,ellen?
Thank you.
Here we go.
Revelation 13.
The stuff that we all came for,right.
Then I saw a beast rising upout of the sea.
A beast.
Now Revelation is asking youturn your thinking caps on.
Imagine here.
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All right, I preached throughthe book of Revelation several
years ago in church and we hadan artist who was painting
images while I was preaching.
Super fun to be able to seethat stuff.
But we got to imagine.
Then I saw a beast rising upout of the sea.
It had seven heads and 10 hornswith 10 crowns on its horns.
That's authority and power.
And written on are youimagining this?
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And written on each of itsseven heads with 10 horns and 10
crowns on its horns were namesthat blasphemed God.
The beast looked like a leopard, but it had the feet of a bear
and the mouth of a lion, and thedragon who I'm not going to go
into in Revelation 12, thedragon that's Satan, by the way.
The dragon gave the beast hisown power and throne and great
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authority.
I saw that one of the heads ofthe beast seemed wounded, beyond
recovery, but the fatal woundwas healed.
The whole earth marveled atthis miracle and gave allegiance
Ooh, that's a big word inRevelation gave allegiance to
the beast.
They worshiped the dragon forgiving the beast such power and
they also worshiped the beast,who is as great as the beast.
They exclaimed who is able tofight against him?
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Then I saw another.
Okay, so first of all, the beastfrom the sea.
Can you go back, ellen?
Just one, so we don't ruin thenext one.
Yes, the beast of the sea withseven heads and 10 horns and 10
crowns on its horns, and in allthe things, the face of a
leopard, all the things.
This is this wild image.
I don't have time to tease thisout and have a little fun with
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you.
I just want to ask the question.
Let's ask who is this beast ofthe sea?
What does this beast of the searepresent?
Everyone wants to know.
Ready, it's Hillary Clinton,I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, no, no
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.
Everybody knows.
It's Donald Trump.
No, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry,I'm sorry.
The beast, the beast everybodyknows is Barack Obama, I'm sorry
, no, okay, that's, I'm havingsome fun with you here.
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Here's what many good biblicalscholars think the beast
represents.
The beast represents the warmachines of the earth.
Can we actually?
Let's keep going forward?
I'm a little thrown off becauseI don't have my Bible, because
it's in the NIV and you guys usethe NLT and geez, louise
Stephen.
Okay, yes, here we go.
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I'm going to read from verse 5and 13.
I don't think it's up there.
The beast was given a mouth toutter proud words and
blasphemies and to exercise hisauthority.
For 42 months it opened itsmouth to blaspheme God and to
slander his name in his dwellingplace and those who live in
heaven.
It was given power to wage waragainst God's holy people and to
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conquer them.
And it was given authority overevery tribe, people, language
and nation.
All the inhabitants of theearth will worship the beast,
all those whose names have notbeen written in the book of the
Lamb's book of life, the Lambwho was slain over the creation
of the world, the main character, so the beast of the sea,
represents the empires of theworld that are the war machines
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that use violence and fear andpower to overwhelm the world and
to demand allegiance from theworld.
The beast of the sea, most goodbiblical scholars will tell you
, represents the violent,bloodthirsty war machines of the
empires of this world.
Okay, the empires and theleaders of this world who
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realize that if I use force anddomination and violence and
instill fear and manipulatepeople, the people of the world,
I get more power.
His name was Domitian in thetime that this book was, this
letter was written.
But see, that beast has manynames throughout history, and
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because there have been many,many, countless empires in the
history of the world that haveused violence, that have used
bloodthirsty, power-hungrygreedy men who are obsessed with
more and more power and willuse violence to get it, the
beast of the sea is the violentwar machines of the empires of
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this world that stand opposed tothe ways of the slaughtered
lamb.
Are you with me?
Okay, there's another beast,and they're fun too.
Then I saw another beast come upout of the earth, the beast
from the sea and then the beastof the earth.
He had two horns, like those ofa lamb Interesting but he spoke
with the voice of a dragon.
He exercised authority, all theauthority of the first beast,
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and let me tell you people havebeen trying to decipher this and
decode this and try to putnames on these characters for
2,000 years.
He exercised all authority,blah, blah, blah, and he
required all the earth and itspeople to worship the first
beast, whose fatal wound hadbeen healed.
He did astounding miracles,even making fire flash down from
the earth, from to the earth,from the sky, while everyone was
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watching.
This is fascinating stuff, andwith all the miracles he was
allowed to perform on behalf ofthe first beast, he deceived all
the people who belonged to thisworld.
He ordered the people to make agreat statue of the first beast
, who was fatally wounded andthen came back to life.
He was then permitted to givelife to the statue so that it
could speak.
Then the statue of the beastcommanded that anyone refusing
to worship it must die.
(28:35):
He required everyone, small andgreat, rich and poor, free and
slave, to be given a mark on theright hand or the forehead.
We obsess over who this is, andno one could buy or sell
anything without that mark,which was either the name of the
beast or the numberrepresenting his name.
What this is, biblical scholarstell us, is this 666 written on
your forehead and on your hand.
(28:56):
It's kind of an anti-shema.
Does anyone know what the shemais?
It's kind of an anti-shema.
Does anyone know what the shemais?
It's from the book ofDeuteronomy and it says Hear O
Israel, the Lord, your God isone.
You shall worship the Lord,your God, with all your heart,
soul, mind and strength right,and you shall write these words
on your forehead and on yourhand.
This is kind of an anti-shemahere.
(29:16):
And what this is, let me justagain, because I don't know,
holy cow, I don't have tons oftime.
The beast from the earth is, themany biblical scholars say,
represents the economic,exploitative, economic
propaganda machine of theempires of this world.
So the beast of the searepresents the violent,
warmongering ways of the empiresof this world and the beast of
(29:40):
the sea and the beast of theearth represents the
exploitative, economicpropaganda machines of this
world that demands theallegiance to both of them, the
ways of the empire, which areviolence and exploitation, and
demands and calls for all ofhumanity's allegiance.
These are the beasts in thebook of Revelation and if you
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read further, you'll see.
John the Revelator startstalking about Babylon and how
Babylon is this metaphoricalbeast in this book.
And it's not that Babylon issomething special.
It's just this really, reallycentral example within the
biblical narrative of what anempire looks like, example
within the biblical narrative ofwhat an empire looks like Back
(30:27):
in the book of Daniel, when thepeople of Israel were enslaved
and occupied and taken captiveby the Babylonians.
This empire that is fueled byviolence and manipulation and
economic exploitation andvictimization and oppression and
injustice.
Babylon was the first that wefind.
Well, actually, egypt was thefirst, but Babylon is this type
or this metaphor, but the peopleof God were oppressed by many
(30:50):
other empires.
First it was the Babylonians,then it was the Persians, then
it was the Greeks, then it wasthe Romans when this stuff was
written.
But it keeps going throughouthistory.
There's no point to asking whoprecisely are these beasts?
Because they are a symbolicpicture for all of the empires
and all of the leaders of theworld who use violence and war
(31:11):
and exploitation and injusticeand oppression and call for the
people's allegiance.
That's who these beastsrepresent.
People's allegiance that's whothese beasts represent.
Are you getting a clue as to whyI've been thinking about
Revelation?
Last one, last scriptural?
Can you give me like 10 minutes, is that okay?
(31:33):
Yeah, last one, revelation 19.
Here's a spoiler alert.
This is the end of the storyhere.
The revelation goes on, but thisis kind of the end of the
battle, the epic battle of theslaughtered lamb and the beast.
Then I saw heaven opened and awhite horse was standing there.
Its rider was named Faithfuland True.
Oh, that's so good, for hejudges fairly and wages a
(31:55):
righteous war.
His eyes were like flames offire and on his head were many
crowns.
This is the slaughtered lamb.
By the way, this is a differentimage of the slaughtered lamb.
His eyes were like flames offire and on his head were many
crowns.
A name was written on him thatno one understood except himself
.
He wore a robe dipped in bloodand his title was the Word of
God, the armies of heaven,dressed in the finest of pure
(32:18):
white linen, followed him onwhite horses.
From his mouth came a sharpsword to strike down the nations
.
He will rule them with an ironrod.
This is all scriptural.
He will release them with thefierce wrath of God, the
Almighty, like juice flowingdown from a wine press.
On his robe and at his thighwas written this title King of
all kings and Lord of all lords.
Then I saw an angel standing inthe sun shouting to the vultures
(32:39):
flying in the sky come, gathertogether for the great banquet
God has prepared.
Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, strong warriors, of
horses and their riders and ofall humanity, both free and
slave and small and great.
It's kind of dark.
Then I saw the beast and thekings of this world and their
armies gathered together tofight against the one sitting on
the horse and his army.
And the beast was captured andwith him the false prophet who
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did many mighty miracles onbehalf of the beast of the earth
, the miracles that deceived allwho accepted the mark of the
beast and worshipped his statue.
Both the beast and the falseprophet were thrown alive into
the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Then I saw the beast and thekings of this world and their
armies gathered together tofight against the one sitting on
the horse in his army, and thebeast was captured and with Now
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that's quite the picture,violent, ugly picture.
But first a couple things.
Remember it's symbolic.
Many violently prone pastorshave taken up on this section
and this image of Jesus andreally really done a number to
it.
Has anybody listened to thepodcast the Rise and Fall of
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Mars Hill?
A couple of you.
Let me just give you an exampleof a pastor who is one of these
, of a pastor who is one ofthese, shall I say overly oh
gosh, any words I use are goingto not awesome pastor.
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This is a direct quote.
I'm reading it right here InRevelation, quote from his
name's, mark Driscoll.
In Revelation, jesus is a pridefighter with a tattoo down his
leg, a sword in his hand.
That's not true.
It's coming out of his mouth.
A sword in his hand and acommitment to make someone bleed
.
This preaches.
That is the guy I can worship.
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I cannot worship the hippiediaper halo Jesus, because I
cannot worship a guy.
I can beat up A couple thingsabout this image here.
First of all, if you can't.
Let's just take beat up inJesus out of the equation here,
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this vision of this warrior,violent warrior who's got a robe
dipped in blood and it's theblood of his enemies and we're
excited about that.
That might not be the mostaccurate picture of this rider
in Revelation 19,.
The one who is a slaughteredlamb has now become the rider,
because, if you pay attention,I'm going to read to you from
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the NIV.
Interestingly enough, he comesto battle in verse 13, dressed
in a robe dipped in blood.
His name is the word of God.
See, what you find if you'repaying attention to the actual
text, is that he's already gotblood on his robe before the
battle even starts.
So what does that mean?
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It means that these violentpictures of Jesus being a
slaughtering warrior general areactually completely
non-biblical, because, see,jesus showed up to the battle
already covered in blood.
Do you know why?
Because he's the slaughteredlamb and the blood that his robe
(36:29):
is dipped in is his own.
See, this battle isn't wonthrough killing your enemies.
This battle is won, the battleover the empires of this world,
the battle that's waging wherethe empires and beasts and
leaders of this world are usingviolence and exploitation and
oppression and injustice, tryingto divide humanity and calling
(36:53):
for our allegiance.
The way that they have beenovercome, revelation tells us,
is through the way ofself-sacrificial love of the
Lamb of God.
See, when we get obsessed byasking who the beast is,
sometimes we become the beastourselves and we get
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bloodthirsty and we see humansas enemies.
But see, the enemies that Jesusslays here in this vision in
Revelation 19 are not humanbeings.
See, how could that be?
Because Jesus died for allhuman beings.
He doesn't kill them, he diesfor them.
The enemies that Jesus iskilling here in Revelation 19
are the enemies and the evilthat set themselves against the
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people of God.
Things like violence, thingslike racism that you're talking
about, stephen Things likeinjustice, things like
exploitation, things likeoppression, things like
separation, all of the thingsthat set themselves against
humanity, that are representedin the beasts and the empires of
this world and the leaders ofthis world that are calling for
our allegiance.
Those are the enemies of Godthat Jesus slays with a sword
(38:02):
coming out of his mouth.
It's a metaphorical, symbolicsword.
So why have I been thinkingabout the book of Revelation,
friends?
I've been thinking about thebook of Revelation because
there's a lot of people in ourworld who seem to think that
(38:26):
turning people against oneanother is the way to win
allegiance.
There seem to be a lot ofpeople in our world talking very
loudly in high places of powerwho are using violence to
overcome their so-called enemies.
There are leaders in this worldwho I've been thinking about
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Revelation because, see, theleaders in our world today have
been reminding me of thesecharacters in the book of
Revelation who are waging war,who are using economic
exploitation, who are preying onthe vulnerable in order to get
ahead, and they're calling forour allegiance.
So what does Revelation have toteach us?
(39:11):
I think Revelation is telling uschurch, don't be surprised.
Don't be surprised when theempires of this world set
themselves against the way ofthe slaughtered lamb.
Be surprised when you see thechurch, following the ways of
this world, set themselvesagainst the way of the
slaughtered lamb.
Be surprised when you see thechurch following the ways of
this world and the beasts.
Be grieved when you see thathappening, but don't let
(39:34):
yourself get distracted, see,because the beast wants to
distract us, the beast wants todivide us, the beasts always
throughout human history.
Again, there is no one personthat personifies this beast.
It's all the empires and allthe leaders, they all look the
same and sound the same and havethe same motivations it's their
own good and power.
(39:55):
See, but Jesus, the way of themain character of the book of
Revelation, the way of theslaughtered lamb.
Jesus gives himself, for thesake of the world, the empire
that's killing him.
The book of Revelation is a bookof allegiance and faithfulness.
Allegiance and faithfulness.
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Since I've been taking the bookof Revelation seriously for
about the last decade, I want totell you just a little tiny bit
that Revelation has changed mypractical life.
I have decided I'm no longergoing to say the Pledge of
Allegiance.
Some of you might think thatI'm a bad American for doing
that.
I love this country.
My mom's an immigrant.
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I have a lot of patriotism inme.
I really do.
I remember walking across theBrooklyn Bridge for the first
time and seeing the Statue ofLiberty for the first time, and
I welled up with tears in myhead, goosebumps all over my
body, but where was I?
(40:58):
Pledge of Allegiance?
But see, the book of Revelationtells me that there's one person
who calls for my allegiance andexpects 100% of it, and it's
the slaughtered lamb.
It's Jesus.
And I cannot stand there andsay I pledge allegiance to
anything or anyone other thanJesus and his kingdom.
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That's me.
That's just a little change.
But see, little changes likethat start changing the way you
see all, everything else.
They start changing the way we.
It changes the power we give tothe ones in power.
Are you with me?
It changes the power in theirwords, see, because I know that
(41:41):
the world's headed towardsgoodness, life, justice and the
end of oppression and violencein the ways of the beast.
I know it and so I'm called byJesus, the lamb of God, who was
slain before the foundations ofthe world, to manifest the ways
of the slaughtered lamb, tomanifest and live out the ways
of Jesus in the world.
That's calling me to seeeveryone as enemies.
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That's the way of the beast.
Friends, see, revelation iscalling for our allegiance and
our faithfulness and ouralertness.
Are you seeing the way theworld is operating, the way God
sees it?
Are you seeing the end of thestory as the lamb who was slain,
(42:26):
who is worthy to open the sealsof the scroll and say this is
what the world has been made tolook like?
Which story are we living into?
Which story are we believing,friends?
Which story do we think isactually the truest and most
real story?
And I don't care what side ofthe aisle you're on Jesus, the
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way of the slaughtered lamb, itbreaks through all of our
ideologies and all of ourethnicity, all of our
identifications, and says I wantyour allegiance, I want your
faithfulness.
Who are we gonna give ourallegiance and faithfulness to?
That's why I've been thinkingabout the book of Revelation.
Friends,
Again.
My name is Randy Nye.
I'm the lead pastor at BrewCity Church in downtown
Milwaukee area.
Brew City sends their love.
They're interested that there'schurches like ours in the state
of Wisconsin.
How about that?
We love partnering togetherwith you.
We love knowing that you guysexist and I love being here.
My family is here.
I have my wife, sarah, and thenfour kids.
(00:22):
I'm not going to say theirnames and embarrass them, but my
daughter I will embarrass.
It's the great joy of my life.
One of the great joys of mylife is embarrassing my kids,
not sorry.
And my daughter is going to bemoving to Madison in less than
two months and going toUW-Madison.
So let's, yes, get one ofwhatever.
(00:42):
Yes, do you mind if I pray?
Is that all right, god?
I'm grateful for the church.
I'm grateful that we get tothat there's all these
expressions of your body, ofwhat it means to follow you and
be your people, jesus, of whatit means to follow you and be
(01:05):
your people, jesus.
And I'm grateful that I candrive an hour west in Wisconsin
and be with the people who arecalled by name and who follow
you, jesus, and who are tryingto take you and your gospel and
this idea of being the churchseriously.
I'm grateful that I get to beshaped and formed by the church
(01:25):
and all her beauty and diversityand complexity, that my family
gets to be the same thing,formed and shaped by you and by
your bride, jesus, and I justask that you would continually
call us to yourselves, jesus,continually call us to
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yourselves, jesus.
There's so many voices in thisworld calling for our attention,
demanding our allegiance.
I ask that you, jesus, wouldbreak through all of those
voices and call our attentionand faithfulness and allegiance
to you, the Lamb, who was slain,who has conquered all things.
(02:10):
It's in your name, jesus, thatwe pray.
Amen.
So I grew up in a very normalevangelical home.
I was born in 1978.
So through the 80s and 90s.
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I grew up in a shelteredChristian home where I had a
Lutheran dad and a Baptist mom,so I knew all the hymns.
I was a church kid.
I went to Lutheran gradeschools, but my family had a
very evangelical feel and Iremember I have a strong memory
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of sitting on my parents' bedone day and a family member had
given me this newsletter from apastor in New York City and this
family member said you need toread this.
We all need to read this.
And by newsletter I don't meanan email newsletter, I mean like
a trifold that you had to openit up and read it.
And this newsletter, basically,was telling me that the end of
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the world was imminent.
One of those newsletters haveyou ever read one?
It was telling me all thethings that were about to happen
.
And this pastor that wrote thisnewsletter that my family
member said you have to readthis and remember I'm 13 years
old thereabout I remembersitting on my parents' bed by
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myself reading this newsletterwhich was telling me that the
world is going to end, how itwas going to end.
It was going to end after abunch of tribulation for the
church.
Things are going to get reallybad for Christians.
A great persecution is going tohappen in all the things.
And I remember it so clearlybecause I was so terrified, I
(04:12):
was not knowing whether I shouldbelieve this, but I've trusted
the family member who gave it tome, and this person who wrote
the newsletter was speaking andsaying the reason that I'm
telling you and forecasting andprophesying and predicting these
events in the end of the world,in the end times, is because
it's clearly marked out where Inthe book of Revelation right,
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it's all right there In plainEnglish to be seen.
It said and it terrified me asa 13-year-old who felt like I
had a lot of life to live.
I wasn't excited about thisimpending end of the world.
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I'm pretty sure it was withinthe next like one to three years
.
I don't remember theparticulars, but I remember that
feeling inside of me.
I don't remember theparticulars, but I remember that
feeling inside of me.
See, the book of Revelation hasbeen used in all the ways that
terrify Stephen when a guestpastor comes and talks about it.
(05:15):
The book of Revelation is isthere a book in the Bible that's
been abused more than the bookof Revelation?
Is there a book of the Biblethat has repulsed more people
away from the church and awayfrom the scriptures and away
from Christianity, the person ofJesus, more than the book of
(05:36):
Revelation?
Also, the book of Revelationhas made a lot of people a lot
of money.
You know what I'm talking about.
Anybody read the Left Behindseries.
You can admit it.
It's okay.
Forgiveness is alive and wellin Jesus.
There's all like.
(05:58):
The Left Behind series soldmillions of copies, turned into
a really ill-fated movie series.
I'm sorry if there's any fanshere of Kirk Cameron, but it's
not just the Left Behind series,I mean.
There's this cottage industryof end times, prophecies and
predictions that come acrossvery, very confidently, that
have traumatized many other13-year-olds, just like myself.
(06:21):
And so when it comes to thechurch and you think about the
book of Revelation, you eitherlove it or hate it.
Usually, if you love it, thatmeans you probably treat it kind
of like astrology or ahoroscope, reading the signs to
(06:41):
see when the end times arecoming.
And man, I'm sorry if I'moffending anyone by saying this,
or if that's not you and you'relike me and you were
traumatized in some ways by thebook of Revelation.
Maybe you want nothing to dowith the book of Revelation.
It's that book of the Biblethat you just kind of leave over
(07:04):
to the side.
I'll leave it alone if itleaves me alone.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
So why am I talking about thebook of Revelation?
As I've been occupying space andliving in this world for the
(07:25):
last, for this last time, forthis last season of life right
now, in our world, in our nation, I've been thinking about the
book of Revelation and I knowthat's a dangerous thing for me
to say, because many of the say,because many of the
(07:49):
quote-unquote prophets who talkabout the book of Revelation say
something exactly like I justsaid.
I've been thinking about thebook of Revelation lately, but I
want to tell you really truly,I've been thinking about the
book of Revelation as I've seenwhat's happening in our world.
I think the book of Revelationhas something to teach us.
I think the book of Revelationhas an invitation for us as a
(08:12):
church today, and not just today, but I think the book of
Revelation wants to form andshape us and tell us how to live
in the midst of the world thatwe live in today.
See, I wound up falling in lovewith the book of Revelation
when I actually started studyingit and I found that there is
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power and life and beauty andrevolutionary goodness in the
book of Revelation If we'reactually listening and if we
actually pay attention to goodbiblical scholars.
So let me just contextualize thebook of Revelation just a brief
moment.
I'm talking like real flyovertype contextualization.
(08:53):
Just who wrote it?
Who is it for?
When it was written?
That kind of thing?
All right, real quick.
So the book of Revelation waswritten by who?
We know the guy's name was JohnJohn the Revelator, if we're
going to be fancy about it, john, saint John was exiled in the
Isle of Patmos and the Spirit ofGod gave John this apocalyptic
vision.
We're going to talk about whatapocalyptic means in a moment.
(09:15):
But this guy, john John theRevelator, we don't know exactly
who he was.
Some think that John was theJohn the beloved disciple, the
same guy who maybe wrote thegospel of John.
We don't know if those two werethe same person either, but
maybe the guy who wrote thegospel of John also wrote the
book of Revelation.
(09:36):
Some scholars think that's thecase.
Other scholars think it's atotally different John.
John was a very common name inthe ancient Near East.
So we don't know exactly.
But this John the Revelator,who wrote the letter of
Revelation to these sevenchurches which there might have
been, particularly sevenchurches in Asia Minor that were
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literally written to Seven isalso a very, very symbolic and
rich number in the book ofRevelation, if you know the book
of Revelation.
So John, this guy, receives thisvision to give to the church in
the specific time-space moments, and the people that this book
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was written to were the earlychurch.
It was written in the laterhalf, later part of the first
century in the 90s-ish, and theguy who was the ruler of the
world of the Roman Empire atthis point his name is Domitian.
We think Domitian ruledprobably a little bit more than
a decade after Nero and if youknow church history at all, you
(10:42):
know Nero was really awful tothe early church I'm talking.
Nero was consumed with hatredfor Jesus and the church and
wanted to wipe the church out.
It was a nightmare time to bethe church to follow Jesus in
the Roman Empire when Nero wasCaesar.
Now, a couple Caesars later,domitian is the Caesar in the
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90s-ish and he's kind of pickingup where Nero left off.
He's persecuting the churchagain.
So the reality, the situationthat the book of Revelation is
written in, is that people likethis as a matter of fact,
meeting underground in manytimes in the ancient Near East.
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But meeting underground notbecause it's cheap rent or a
good space to meet when a churchis meeting at nine o'clock in
the morning or something likethat but because maybe if they
knew that we were meetingtogether, they would want to
bring us before the powers thatbe and murder us and our
families, kidnap the pastor thatbe and murder us and our
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families, kidnap the pastor I'mtalking.
The most powerful person in themost powerful empire in the
world has set themselves againstthe church.
And so the book of Revelationis this prophetic, apocalyptic
vision that's given to this mannamed John to give to the
churches.
And apocalyptic means something.
So let's think about for amoment what that word apocalypse
means.
Apocalypse does not mean justthe end of the world.
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Apocalyptic literature isbasically an unveiling of what's
really going on in the world,right?
So the book of Revelation iscalled the Revelation of St John
.
The actual, literal word forthat, instead of Revelation, is
it's the apocalypse of St John,the apocalypse.
And what that means is that Godgave John this vision.
(12:34):
The spirit of God gave Johnthis vision in which John gets
to see what's really going on inthe course of human history.
An apocalyptic letter is onethat kind of takes the veil back
on what's happening in thecourse of human history.
An apocalyptic letter is onethat kind of takes the veil back
on what's happening in theworld.
We see what's happening in theworld.
There's war in the Middle Eastand there's war in Eastern
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Europe and there's tumultuousstuff happening in the United
States of America.
This is what's happening on thesurface.
An apocalyptic vision is onewhere God says I want to show
you what's going on behind thecurtain.
I want to show you what'sreally happening, who these
leaders in your world really are, what they're really like, and
I want to show you what'sultimately going to happen in
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the course of human history.
Who wins.
Does that make sense?
Apocalyptic literature is anunveiling of what's really
happening, peeling back of thecurtain to show you what God
sees in human history, how Godsees the current events that are
happening now.
Are we on the same page?
And it's this apocalypticvision that John gets from the
(13:43):
Spirit of God in code, purposely, because it needs to be.
It's a subversive message inthe book of Revelation to
encourage a church and a peoplewho are being hunted and
persecuted by the Roman Empire.
This is why it's apocalyptic,because it needs to be written
in code in a way that the peoplewho were intended to read it,
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the target audience, wouldunderstand.
But everybody else doesn't.
And you know what the code is.
It's the images and symbols ofthe Old Testament, of the Hebrew
Scriptures.
See, one of the reasons wedon't understand the book of
Revelation is because we don'tunderstand the Hebrew Scriptures
Right.
The book of Revelation is notthe only apocalyptic book in the
(14:31):
Bible.
If you don't understand thebook of Daniel in the Old
Testament, you're never going tounderstand the book of
Revelation.
They are very, very similar andmany of the images in
Revelation you find originallyin the book of Daniel and the
writer expects us to know them.
It's going to be really hard tokind of understand this
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apocalyptic visions and symbolsand metaphors if we don't
understand the Old Testament.
But it's written in code forand to a persecuted church to
encourage them and to tell them.
This is what's really happeningin your moments and this is
where all of history is heading.
Are we on the same page now?
This is the book of Revelationand I want to do just this real
(15:14):
quick, deep dive.
I want to give you, show you, acouple of characters from the
book of Revelation who I thinkwe need to know about, the
reasons why I've been thinkingabout Revelation the last
several months.
So let's dive in.
And the first person I want totell you about, the first thing
I want to tell you about in thebook of Revelation, is who the
main character is.
Okay, who's the main characterin the book of Revelation?
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There are some crazy, wackywild characters in the book of
Revelation.
I'm talking animals that haveone that has the head of an
eagle and the feet of a bear and10 horns and 10 eyes eyes all
around their bodies wild things.
But there's one image in thebook of Revelation who is the
(16:02):
main character in the book ofRevelation and it's easy to miss
.
But we meet the main characterof the book of Revelation in
Revelation 5.
So let's go there and turn toRevelation 5.
I think it's verse 1.
Do we have it up there?
Perfect, this is John.
John gets beamed into thethrone room of God in the
(16:25):
heavenly reality, or realm ifyou will, and that kind of seems
to be all around.
Just so you know.
But I don't have time to gointo that.
But here we go, revelation 5.
Then I saw a scroll.
This is John saying this Johnthe Revelator.
Then I saw a scroll in theright hand of the one who was
sitting on the throne God theAlmighty.
There was written on the insideand outside of the scroll and
it was sealed with seven seals.
(16:46):
Imagine, like a wax seal on aletter.
Have you ever seen that kind offancy old thing that's the
seven seals.
And I saw a strong angel whoshouted with a loud voice who is
worthy to break the seals onthe scroll and open it?
But no one in heaven or onearth or under the earth was
able to open the scroll and readit.
We're supposed to feel thetension in this moment.
(17:09):
There's something in thisscroll that needs to get up, but
no one can or is worthy to openit.
It's like the sword and thestone.
No one can do it.
Then I began to weep bitterlybecause no one was found worthy
to open the scroll and read it.
Do you hear the emotion there?
But one of the 24 elders whoworships before the throne day
(17:31):
and night said to me stopweeping.
Look, the lion of the tribe ofJudah, the heir to David's
throne, has won the victory.
He is worthy to open the scrolland its seven seals.
Then I saw a lamb that lookedas if it had been slaughtered.
Now here's something fun thathappens in the book of
Revelation pretty regularly.
(17:51):
John will say I heard someonesaid this.
He said hey, don't worry, thelion of the tribe of Judah, he
is conquered, he is able to openthe scroll.
That's what John heard.
But then he looks and hedoesn't see a lion actually, but
he sees the main character ofthe book of Revelation.
(18:11):
See, because the main characterof the book of Revelation is
this really ironic image, thatis, a lamb that looked as if it
had been slaughtered.
Do you know what a slaughteredlamb looks like?
It's this lamb that has had itsthroat slit and has blood
everywhere.
It's a very, very unlikelyimage to be the protagonist in
(18:39):
this epic book with beasts andcreatures.
The main character in the bookof Revelation is this lamb that
looked as if it had beenslaughtered, but it was now
standing between the throne andthe four living beings, among
the 24 elders.
He had seven horns and seveneyes, which represent the
sevenfold spirit of God that issent out into every part of the
(19:01):
earth.
He stepped forward and took thescroll from the slaughtered
lamb, stepped forward, took thescroll from the right hand of
the one sitting on the throne,and when he took the scroll from
the right hand of the onesitting on the throne and when
he took the scroll, the fourliving beings and the 24 elders
fell down before the lamb.
Each one had a harp and theyheld golden bowls filled with
incense, which are the prayersof God's people, and they sang a
(19:21):
new song with these words youare worthy, the slaughtered lamb
.
You are worthy to take thescroll and break its seals and
open it, for you are slaughteredand your blood has what the
people of God look like.
That's what the people of Godlook like, a people from every
(19:44):
tribe and language and peopleand nation.
See right off the bat, rightwhen we hear about who the Lamb
is and what the Lamb has done.
It's subversive.
Why have I been thinking aboutRevelation?
Let's start connecting the dots, and you have caused them to
(20:05):
become a kingdom of priests forour God, and they will reign on
the earth.
The main character of the bookof Revelation, friends, are not
these fantastic and awful beaststhat we find in the book of
Revelation.
The main character in the bookof Revelation is not the dragon
who comes to wage war on theearth and on God's people.
The main character of the bookof Revelation are not the
(20:26):
churches.
Even the main character of thebook of Revelation is here's the
Sunday school answer Jesus.
But it's this particular visionof Jesus.
It's Jesus, the slaughteredlamb, and not just the
slaughtered lamb, but in themidst of this empire that is
hunting down the church andpersecuting God's people.
(20:46):
The empire, the one whoslaughtered this lamb, is the
empire.
The one who slaughtered Jesuson the cross, is this empire who
set itself against the peopleof God.
Now talk about an ironic maincharacter to a book, main
(21:12):
character to a book.
The book's written in thesubversive way, encoded language
to a people who are beinghunted down and persecuted by
the empire for following Jesus.
And the main character of thebook is one who has been killed
and slaughtered by the empire.
See, because in God's economy,in the book of Revelation,
that's what victory looks like.
We need to learn from theseimages, friends.
(21:33):
These images want to teach ussomething and these images say
if you want to achieve victoryin this world and in God's
kingdom, it is not the way ofthe beast.
If you want to achieve victoryin this world, it's the way of
the beast.
If you want to achieve victoryin this world, it's the way of
(21:57):
the slaughtered lamb.
It's the way of the one wholaid his life down in the face
of all the injustice andoppression the empire could
throw at him and went quietly.
Who laid down his life for hisenemies, even the empire.
This is the main character ofthe book of Revelation and we
need to learn from this maincharacter.
Let's keep going.
Can we keep going?
I could go, I could.
(22:17):
We could have some fun there.
But there's more here, allright.
So let's move on to these, thetwo kind of antagonists and
there's a number of them.
I'm going to just highlight twomajor ones from Revelation 13.
Of them, I'm going to justhighlight two major ones from
Revelation 13.
Now is when stuff gets juicy.
All right, we've got aslaughtered lamb, that's the
main character.
But we've got a couple ofbeasts.
So let's go.
(22:37):
I think it is Revelation 13.
Is that right?
What's your name, by the way,ellen?
Thank you.
Here we go.
Revelation 13.
The stuff that we all came for,right.
Then I saw a beast rising upout of the sea.
A beast.
Now Revelation is asking youturn your thinking caps on.
Imagine here.
(22:58):
All right, I preached throughthe book of Revelation several
years ago in church and we hadan artist who was painting
images while I was preaching.
Super fun to be able to seethat stuff.
But we got to imagine.
Then I saw a beast rising upout of the sea.
It had seven heads and 10 hornswith 10 crowns on its horns.
That's authority and power.
And written on are youimagining this?
(23:21):
And written on each of itsseven heads with 10 horns and 10
crowns on its horns were namesthat blasphemed God.
The beast looked like a leopard, but it had the feet of a bear
and the mouth of a lion, and thedragon who I'm not going to go
into in Revelation 12, thedragon that's Satan, by the way.
The dragon gave the beast hisown power and throne and great
(23:43):
authority.
I saw that one of the heads ofthe beast seemed wounded, beyond
recovery, but the fatal woundwas healed.
The whole earth marveled atthis miracle and gave allegiance
Ooh, that's a big word inRevelation gave allegiance to
the beast.
They worshiped the dragon forgiving the beast such power and
they also worshiped the beast,who is as great as the beast.
They exclaimed who is able tofight against him?
(24:04):
Then I saw another.
Okay, so first of all, the beastfrom the sea.
Can you go back, ellen?
Just one, so we don't ruin thenext one.
Yes, the beast of the sea withseven heads and 10 horns and 10
crowns on its horns, and in allthe things, the face of a
leopard, all the things.
This is this wild image.
I don't have time to tease thisout and have a little fun with
(24:27):
you.
I just want to ask the question.
Let's ask who is this beast ofthe sea?
What does this beast of the searepresent?
Everyone wants to know.
Ready, it's Hillary Clinton,I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, no, no
(24:48):
.
Everybody knows.
It's Donald Trump.
No, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry,I'm sorry.
The beast, the beast everybodyknows is Barack Obama, I'm sorry
, no, okay, that's, I'm havingsome fun with you here.
(25:09):
Here's what many good biblicalscholars think the beast
represents.
The beast represents the warmachines of the earth.
Can we actually?
Let's keep going forward?
I'm a little thrown off becauseI don't have my Bible, because
it's in the NIV and you guys usethe NLT and geez, louise
Stephen.
Okay, yes, here we go.
(25:39):
I'm going to read from verse 5and 13.
I don't think it's up there.
The beast was given a mouth toutter proud words and
blasphemies and to exercise hisauthority.
For 42 months it opened itsmouth to blaspheme God and to
slander his name in his dwellingplace and those who live in
heaven.
It was given power to wage waragainst God's holy people and to
(26:00):
conquer them.
And it was given authority overevery tribe, people, language
and nation.
All the inhabitants of theearth will worship the beast,
all those whose names have notbeen written in the book of the
Lamb's book of life, the Lambwho was slain over the creation
of the world, the main character, so the beast of the sea,
represents the empires of theworld that are the war machines
(26:21):
that use violence and fear andpower to overwhelm the world and
to demand allegiance from theworld.
The beast of the sea, most goodbiblical scholars will tell you
, represents the violent,bloodthirsty war machines of the
empires of this world.
Okay, the empires and theleaders of this world who
(26:48):
realize that if I use force anddomination and violence and
instill fear and manipulatepeople, the people of the world,
I get more power.
His name was Domitian in thetime that this book was, this
letter was written.
But see, that beast has manynames throughout history, and
(27:11):
because there have been many,many, countless empires in the
history of the world that haveused violence, that have used
bloodthirsty, power-hungrygreedy men who are obsessed with
more and more power and willuse violence to get it, the
beast of the sea is the violentwar machines of the empires of
(27:32):
this world that stand opposed tothe ways of the slaughtered
lamb.
Are you with me?
Okay, there's another beast,and they're fun too.
Then I saw another beast come upout of the earth, the beast
from the sea and then the beastof the earth.
He had two horns, like those ofa lamb Interesting but he spoke
with the voice of a dragon.
He exercised authority, all theauthority of the first beast,
(27:53):
and let me tell you people havebeen trying to decipher this and
decode this and try to putnames on these characters for
2,000 years.
He exercised all authority,blah, blah, blah, and he
required all the earth and itspeople to worship the first
beast, whose fatal wound hadbeen healed.
He did astounding miracles,even making fire flash down from
the earth, from to the earth,from the sky, while everyone was
(28:14):
watching.
This is fascinating stuff, andwith all the miracles he was
allowed to perform on behalf ofthe first beast, he deceived all
the people who belonged to thisworld.
He ordered the people to make agreat statue of the first beast
, who was fatally wounded andthen came back to life.
He was then permitted to givelife to the statue so that it
could speak.
Then the statue of the beastcommanded that anyone refusing
to worship it must die.
(28:35):
He required everyone, small andgreat, rich and poor, free and
slave, to be given a mark on theright hand or the forehead.
We obsess over who this is, andno one could buy or sell
anything without that mark,which was either the name of the
beast or the numberrepresenting his name.
What this is, biblical scholarstell us, is this 666 written on
your forehead and on your hand.
(28:56):
It's kind of an anti-shema.
Does anyone know what the shemais?
It's kind of an anti-shema.
Does anyone know what the shemais?
It's from the book ofDeuteronomy and it says Hear O
Israel, the Lord, your God isone.
You shall worship the Lord,your God, with all your heart,
soul, mind and strength right,and you shall write these words
on your forehead and on yourhand.
This is kind of an anti-shemahere.
(29:16):
And what this is, let me justagain, because I don't know,
holy cow, I don't have tons oftime.
The beast from the earth is, themany biblical scholars say,
represents the economic,exploitative, economic
propaganda machine of theempires of this world.
So the beast of the searepresents the violent,
warmongering ways of the empiresof this world and the beast of
(29:40):
the sea and the beast of theearth represents the
exploitative, economicpropaganda machines of this
world that demands theallegiance to both of them, the
ways of the empire, which areviolence and exploitation, and
demands and calls for all ofhumanity's allegiance.
These are the beasts in thebook of Revelation and if you
(30:03):
read further, you'll see.
John the Revelator startstalking about Babylon and how
Babylon is this metaphoricalbeast in this book.
And it's not that Babylon issomething special.
It's just this really, reallycentral example within the
biblical narrative of what anempire looks like, example
within the biblical narrative ofwhat an empire looks like Back
(30:27):
in the book of Daniel, when thepeople of Israel were enslaved
and occupied and taken captiveby the Babylonians.
This empire that is fueled byviolence and manipulation and
economic exploitation andvictimization and oppression and
injustice.
Babylon was the first that wefind.
Well, actually, egypt was thefirst, but Babylon is this type
or this metaphor, but the peopleof God were oppressed by many
(30:50):
other empires.
First it was the Babylonians,then it was the Persians, then
it was the Greeks, then it wasthe Romans when this stuff was
written.
But it keeps going throughouthistory.
There's no point to asking whoprecisely are these beasts?
Because they are a symbolicpicture for all of the empires
and all of the leaders of theworld who use violence and war
(31:11):
and exploitation and injusticeand oppression and call for the
people's allegiance.
That's who these beastsrepresent.
People's allegiance that's whothese beasts represent.
Are you getting a clue as to whyI've been thinking about
Revelation?
Last one, last scriptural?
Can you give me like 10 minutes, is that okay?
(31:33):
Yeah, last one, revelation 19.
Here's a spoiler alert.
This is the end of the storyhere.
The revelation goes on, but thisis kind of the end of the
battle, the epic battle of theslaughtered lamb and the beast.
Then I saw heaven opened and awhite horse was standing there.
Its rider was named Faithfuland True.
Oh, that's so good, for hejudges fairly and wages a
(31:55):
righteous war.
His eyes were like flames offire and on his head were many
crowns.
This is the slaughtered lamb.
By the way, this is a differentimage of the slaughtered lamb.
His eyes were like flames offire and on his head were many
crowns.
A name was written on him thatno one understood except himself
.
He wore a robe dipped in bloodand his title was the Word of
God, the armies of heaven,dressed in the finest of pure
(32:18):
white linen, followed him onwhite horses.
From his mouth came a sharpsword to strike down the nations
.
He will rule them with an ironrod.
This is all scriptural.
He will release them with thefierce wrath of God, the
Almighty, like juice flowingdown from a wine press.
On his robe and at his thighwas written this title King of
all kings and Lord of all lords.
Then I saw an angel standing inthe sun shouting to the vultures
(32:39):
flying in the sky come, gathertogether for the great banquet
God has prepared.
Come and eat the flesh of kings, generals, strong warriors, of
horses and their riders and ofall humanity, both free and
slave and small and great.
It's kind of dark.
Then I saw the beast and thekings of this world and their
armies gathered together tofight against the one sitting on
the horse and his army.
And the beast was captured andwith him the false prophet who
(33:00):
did many mighty miracles onbehalf of the beast of the earth
, the miracles that deceived allwho accepted the mark of the
beast and worshipped his statue.
Both the beast and the falseprophet were thrown alive into
the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Then I saw the beast and thekings of this world and their
armies gathered together tofight against the one sitting on
the horse in his army, and thebeast was captured and with Now
(33:48):
that's quite the picture,violent, ugly picture.
But first a couple things.
Remember it's symbolic.
Many violently prone pastorshave taken up on this section
and this image of Jesus andreally really done a number to
it.
Has anybody listened to thepodcast the Rise and Fall of
(34:11):
Mars Hill?
A couple of you.
Let me just give you an exampleof a pastor who is one of these
, of a pastor who is one ofthese, shall I say overly oh
gosh, any words I use are goingto not awesome pastor.
(34:35):
This is a direct quote.
I'm reading it right here InRevelation, quote from his
name's, mark Driscoll.
In Revelation, jesus is a pridefighter with a tattoo down his
leg, a sword in his hand.
That's not true.
It's coming out of his mouth.
A sword in his hand and acommitment to make someone bleed
.
This preaches.
That is the guy I can worship.
(34:56):
I cannot worship the hippiediaper halo Jesus, because I
cannot worship a guy.
I can beat up A couple thingsabout this image here.
First of all, if you can't.
Let's just take beat up inJesus out of the equation here,
(35:20):
this vision of this warrior,violent warrior who's got a robe
dipped in blood and it's theblood of his enemies and we're
excited about that.
That might not be the mostaccurate picture of this rider
in Revelation 19,.
The one who is a slaughteredlamb has now become the rider,
because, if you pay attention,I'm going to read to you from
(35:42):
the NIV.
Interestingly enough, he comesto battle in verse 13, dressed
in a robe dipped in blood.
His name is the word of God.
See, what you find if you'repaying attention to the actual
text, is that he's already gotblood on his robe before the
battle even starts.
So what does that mean?
(36:04):
It means that these violentpictures of Jesus being a
slaughtering warrior general areactually completely
non-biblical, because, see,jesus showed up to the battle
already covered in blood.
Do you know why?
Because he's the slaughteredlamb and the blood that his robe
(36:29):
is dipped in is his own.
See, this battle isn't wonthrough killing your enemies.
This battle is won, the battleover the empires of this world,
the battle that's waging wherethe empires and beasts and
leaders of this world are usingviolence and exploitation and
oppression and injustice, tryingto divide humanity and calling
(36:53):
for our allegiance.
The way that they have beenovercome, revelation tells us,
is through the way ofself-sacrificial love of the
Lamb of God.
See, when we get obsessed byasking who the beast is,
sometimes we become the beastourselves and we get
(37:15):
bloodthirsty and we see humansas enemies.
But see, the enemies that Jesusslays here in this vision in
Revelation 19 are not humanbeings.
See, how could that be?
Because Jesus died for allhuman beings.
He doesn't kill them, he diesfor them.
The enemies that Jesus iskilling here in Revelation 19
are the enemies and the evilthat set themselves against the
(37:37):
people of God.
Things like violence, thingslike racism that you're talking
about, stephen Things likeinjustice, things like
exploitation, things likeoppression, things like
separation, all of the thingsthat set themselves against
humanity, that are representedin the beasts and the empires of
this world and the leaders ofthis world that are calling for
our allegiance.
Those are the enemies of Godthat Jesus slays with a sword
(38:02):
coming out of his mouth.
It's a metaphorical, symbolicsword.
So why have I been thinkingabout the book of Revelation,
friends?
I've been thinking about thebook of Revelation because
there's a lot of people in ourworld who seem to think that
(38:26):
turning people against oneanother is the way to win
allegiance.
There seem to be a lot ofpeople in our world talking very
loudly in high places of powerwho are using violence to
overcome their so-called enemies.
There are leaders in this worldwho I've been thinking about
(38:49):
Revelation because, see, theleaders in our world today have
been reminding me of thesecharacters in the book of
Revelation who are waging war,who are using economic
exploitation, who are preying onthe vulnerable in order to get
ahead, and they're calling forour allegiance.
So what does Revelation have toteach us?
(39:11):
I think Revelation is telling uschurch, don't be surprised.
Don't be surprised when theempires of this world set
themselves against the way ofthe slaughtered lamb.
Be surprised when you see thechurch, following the ways of
this world, set themselvesagainst the way of the
slaughtered lamb.
Be surprised when you see thechurch following the ways of
this world and the beasts.
Be grieved when you see thathappening, but don't let
(39:34):
yourself get distracted, see,because the beast wants to
distract us, the beast wants todivide us, the beasts always
throughout human history.
Again, there is no one personthat personifies this beast.
It's all the empires and allthe leaders, they all look the
same and sound the same and havethe same motivations it's their
own good and power.
(39:55):
See, but Jesus, the way of themain character of the book of
Revelation, the way of theslaughtered lamb.
Jesus gives himself, for thesake of the world, the empire
that's killing him.
The book of Revelation is a bookof allegiance and faithfulness.
Allegiance and faithfulness.
(40:17):
Since I've been taking the bookof Revelation seriously for
about the last decade, I want totell you just a little tiny bit
that Revelation has changed mypractical life.
I have decided I'm no longergoing to say the Pledge of
Allegiance.
Some of you might think thatI'm a bad American for doing
that.
I love this country.
My mom's an immigrant.
(40:37):
I have a lot of patriotism inme.
I really do.
I remember walking across theBrooklyn Bridge for the first
time and seeing the Statue ofLiberty for the first time, and
I welled up with tears in myhead, goosebumps all over my
body, but where was I?
(40:58):
Pledge of Allegiance?
But see, the book of Revelationtells me that there's one person
who calls for my allegiance andexpects 100% of it, and it's
the slaughtered lamb.
It's Jesus.
And I cannot stand there andsay I pledge allegiance to
anything or anyone other thanJesus and his kingdom.
(41:19):
That's me.
That's just a little change.
But see, little changes likethat start changing the way you
see all, everything else.
They start changing the way we.
It changes the power we give tothe ones in power.
Are you with me?
It changes the power in theirwords, see, because I know that
(41:41):
the world's headed towardsgoodness, life, justice and the
end of oppression and violencein the ways of the beast.
I know it and so I'm called byJesus, the lamb of God, who was
slain before the foundations ofthe world, to manifest the ways
of the slaughtered lamb, tomanifest and live out the ways
of Jesus in the world.
That's calling me to seeeveryone as enemies.
(42:02):
That's the way of the beast.
Friends, see, revelation iscalling for our allegiance and
our faithfulness and ouralertness.
Are you seeing the way theworld is operating, the way God
sees it?
Are you seeing the end of thestory as the lamb who was slain,
(42:26):
who is worthy to open the sealsof the scroll and say this is
what the world has been made tolook like?
Which story are we living into?
Which story are we believing,friends?
Which story do we think isactually the truest and most
real story?
And I don't care what side ofthe aisle you're on Jesus, the
(42:52):
way of the slaughtered lamb, itbreaks through all of our
ideologies and all of ourethnicity, all of our
identifications, and says I wantyour allegiance, I want your
faithfulness.
Who are we gonna give ourallegiance and faithfulness to?
That's why I've been thinkingabout the book of Revelation.
Friends,
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