July 1, 2025 • 26 mins
Mark J. Kohler and Mat Sorensen reveal game-changing strategies for transforming your retirement accounts from Wall Street limitations to Main Street opportunities. Discover how to legally invest your IRA or 401(k) in high-potential assets beyond traditional stocks and mutual funds.
- Maximize Tax-Free Wealth: Learn Roth IRA investment strategies that minimize taxes
- Explore Alternative Investments: Real estate, crypto, private businesses, and more
- Gain Checkbook Control: Understand IRA LLC structures for flexible investing
- Protect Your Assets: Learn how retirement accounts shield your investments
- A comprehensive guide for entrepreneurs seeking smarter, more strategic retirement investing
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Main Street Business Podcast with
your distinguished hosts, mark JKohler and Matt Sorenson.
Both are bestselling authorsand have over 25 years of
industry experience, with 10,000client consultations, making
them the leading tax and legalexperts in the nation.
Together, they'll unpack themost complex tax, legal and
financial strategies crucial forsaving more, stressing less and
(00:22):
building generational wealth.
Crucial for saving more,stressing less and building
generational wealth.
Today they're your personaladvisors, ready to break it down
for you and make the tax andlegal game easier than ever.
Here is Mark and Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
You may want to buy gold or silver, you may want to
buy crypto, you might want to doreal estate and we never think
that, oh, I could be doing thisin my IRA or 401k.
We want to build wealth, paythe least amount in tax and even
asset, protect it when your IRAmakes money, particularly your
Roth IRA.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
nothing goes to the IRS, Anything you put in it.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You can pull back out tax-free, penalty-free, anytime
you want it.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
This is not for everyone, I'll say that, but
it's for a lot more people thatare currently utilizing it.
Welcome everyone to the MainStreet Business Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, joinedby the incredible Mark J Kohler,
and we're delighted to be withyou today talking about
strategic strategies with aself-directed IRA.
(01:18):
You've got two tax lawyers here.
We've got the 10,000 hours inthe space We've been working in
this.
We co-founded a trust companythat does this and we got
something we want to share.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, and there are ways to better invest your money
and that could and we're notjust talking wall street, we're
talking about maybe your rentalproperty, what your your side
hustle, your brother's business,a startup down the street.
For those that aren't familiarwith this and we have a whole
other podcast on this topic weneeded to bring it to Main
Street today.
(01:48):
We needed to talk aboutsummertime investment strategies
and let you know there's moreout there.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, and I think one of the things we hear from a
lot of our clients on MainStreet and our law firm and as
we're working with clients andtalking to other professionals
across the country is people arethinking like where's the best
place to invest right now?
And if you think about where themoney is, there's $44 trillion
in retirement accounts and thetypical Main Street Americans
most investable section ofdollars is in their IRAs and
(02:19):
401ks, and you've just been toldthat you need to buy a stock
bond or a mutual fund and welove the Main Street investing,
not the Wall Street investingand so how do we bring those
retirement accounts over tothese assets?
We want to hit some strategiesfor you today.
Dive into that, and this issomething Mark and I love.
(02:39):
We do it ourselves.
You know we're eating our owncooking, so to speak, and we're
not here to sell you anythingeither.
If you're not interested inthis and the main street
investing versus Wall Streetinvesting, that's okay.
I'm not trying to convince you.
I just want you to know what'spossible, because you're not
hearing that from your financialadvisor and you're definitely
not hearing it from Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, a couple of things.
The plan today we're going toshare some strategies and then
some how-to steps so that, ifsome of you get excited about
this, you know what to do next,where to get a little more
educated on this, how you cantake action.
But one of the first concepts Iwant to share is you don't have
to take your entire IRA or yourentire 401k and go do something
(03:20):
else.
You can say, ooh, I'm going topeel off 10 grand, 20 grand, 200
grand, whatever you got, add azero to it.
So I'm just going to lay it outlike this.
First point is you may want tobuy gold or silver, you may want
to buy crypto, you might wantto do real estate, and we never
think that, oh, I could be doingthis in my IRA or 401k, oh, I
(03:43):
could be doing this in my IRA or401k.
And I mean, matt, the other daysomeone asked you how do I save
taxes?
And it was so funny what yousaid I don't want to steal your
thunder.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah Well, I mean, the first thing we always say
about like, how do I save taxes,is we'll stop making money, and
no one likes that answer.
But what we're saying is Istill want you to build wealth,
but when you make money, it goeson your 1040 and it goes to the
IRS and there's something thatgoes to the state when your IRA
makes money, particularly yourRoth IRA, the number one account
we work with.
Nothing goes to the IRS.
This is growing and coming outtax-free.
(04:18):
It's long-term wealth building.
I'm waiting until I'm 59 and ahalf.
But what we've seen with clientsover the years and I stole that
line from Mark, by the way, Iwill give some attribution is,
and I remember Mark talking to aclient like a real estate
client that was like all bentabout how much taxes he was
paying.
He had a really great yearflipping houses and it was like
well, stop making money.
And the guy's like what kind ofa guy is this?
(04:39):
That's something to stop makingmoney?
He's like, no, you need yourRoth IRA to make money.
So if you're someone like a realestate investor or you like
Main Street assets, like itcould be the gold, the crypto,
it could be small business.
It could be private funds.
I mean, these are kind of morethe Main Street assets, not the
big publicly traded company orthe ETF or whatever.
(05:01):
But if you like those MainStreet assets and you feel like
you have a competitive advantagein that they are more valuable,
have more value over time,they're priced right, you feel
like you can buy them at a goodprice.
We just want you to know youcan do it in your IRA and that
same tool that a lot of peopleare familiar with buying a stock
and selling it for a gain andnot paying taxes, and every
(05:21):
penny you make on it gets to bereinvested and you can compound
and grow that.
If you think about with yourstock portfolio and Wall Street
taught us that Well, that samestrategy and the tax benefits
apply in real estate and theseother Main Street assets.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, when you saw the title of the show.
This is it.
This is a strategy.
We want to build wealth, paythe least amount in tax and even
asset protect it.
Now a couple of you out therethat might be a little younger
are like well, I don't want towait till I'm 59 and a half or
whatever.
Hey, with these Roth accounts,anything you put in it, you can
(05:57):
pull back out tax-free,penalty-free, anytime you want
it.
But let's let the gains rolland ride and snowball and get
going Then.
Another thing I think it's justso important to mention is that
you can invest in things thatyou know best.
And there are some guardrails,like you can't work in the
(06:17):
business your IRA may invest in.
Generally there are.
There are some.
You'll learn more as you godown this path.
But we've got to be carefulthat your Roth IRA is not going
to create a job for you or payyou for what you're going to be
doing.
But when you've got an idea ora strategy or you know of
something in the local area or astrategic advantage, that's not
(06:40):
insider trading.
I don't mean insider trading.
You know something no one elseknows.
Yeah, so does Nancy Pelosi, butyou've got the same runway she
does.
It is not insider trading foryou to invest your IRA in
something you know that no oneelse knows.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, and let's just give a couple of examples here,
just so you guys canconceptualize this, particularly
for anyone new here.
I'll share one.
I've done Mark can share one.
Okay, yeah, let's read Is whereyou see kind of like a main
street investment opportunity.
Right, it's not like some indexfund or ETF or stock, but
you're like I just see this mainstreet opportunity, for example
, like what my account isinvested in right now.
(07:20):
The most recent investment I didout of my own self-directed
retirement account mine's a Roth, but you could do traditional
funds is I'm lending anotherreal estate investor money out
of my account.
I'm charging them 12% interestin two points.
Now when they came to methey're like hey, I'm buying
this deal, the bank won'tfinance it, there's a ton of
equity in it, I'll give you alien in first position and I
(07:43):
know you like to lend on realestate deals because I kind of
told people that.
So I get deals, people willtalk to me about it, and so I'm
like cool, 12% interest andyou're going to pay me two
points, so I'm getting a 14%rate of return.
I usually lend that money twicein six-month loans.
So overall I get the two pointstwice a year, so I'm getting a
(08:05):
16% return on my investment.
Now I could have said, let mejust fund that with my
non-retirement account dollars,you know.
I could have just said, let mejust lend you a hundred grand,
you know, out of my regulardollars.
But if I'm being strategicabout it, which I am I'm
thinking about long-term wealthbuilding, which I am, I'm
thinking about asset protection,which I get in my retirement
account.
I'm going to be more strategicin using my Roth account to do
(08:27):
that.
Because if you think about it,if I lent that person money and
I get let's say, I'm getting 16%rate of return, so I'm getting,
I lend my retirement account,is my retirement account keeps
that entire 16%.
Like that retirement accountkeeps that entire 16%, like that
I get $116,000.
If I did that personally, okay,I'm in the highest tax bracket,
(08:54):
I'm paying state tax.
Let's say, 40% of what I makeon interest income as I'm
lending money is going to thegovernment, like that 16% return
ends up being like 9%, you know.
And so if you're thinking aboutbuilding wealth, we want our
money working for us as best aspossible, and that's where you
can be strategic about it is I'mcompounding this over time my
(09:15):
money, that 100,000, if I keepreinvesting it just on the math
here will be $1.6 millionwithout putting any new
contributions in, if I can keepgetting that return because I
pay no tax, if I do that outsidemy retirement account.
Sorry I'm going long here, butI'm just trying to illustrate
that outside my retirementaccount, where I got to pay
Uncle Sam every year and I'mmaking money but I don't get to
(09:37):
reinvest at all, it's going totake me 30 plus years to get to
$1.6 million versus 18.
And I want to have that moneywhen I'm 45, you know, in my 60s
, not when I'm in my 80s.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, no perfect example.
I'm going to go long now too.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Now let's use it without objection.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I yield the balance of the time.
Thank you, thank you, senatorfrom Arizona.
There is another strategic ideahere.
When we go out and invest, it'svery hard to use leverage.
Leverage is difficult.
You may have heard of marginaccounts and they're very
dangerous.
I'm going to buy stock onmargin.
That's how people end upjumping out of buildings, so we
(10:19):
don't want to do that.
But what's cool with yourretirement account is it can
borrow money non-recourse,meaning your credit doesn't
matter, your FICO score doesn'tmatter.
And so here's an example of oneof mine.
I actually used my healthsavings account.
I still own this property tothis day.
I think I bought it like 10 to12 years ago.
But there was this low-incomehousing, section eight rental.
(10:42):
It was over in Elgin outsideChicago and I was able to put
down six, seven grand becauseit's a low-income housing about
50 grand and it wasseller-financed and they wanted
a first trust deed.
They didn't care what my creditwas, they just wanted 10% down.
(11:03):
So I think I put down like fiveto six grand, bought it for 55
grand, whatever, 10% down.
So I think it put down likefive to six grand, bought it for
55 grand, whatever.
And after section eight, federalrent control area, I'm still
netting a couple hundred bucks amonth.
Now that may not seem a lot,but when you take 12 years at
$200 a month, growing inside myhealth savings account, this
paid for braces for one of mykids tax-free.
(11:26):
So an HSA strategic strategyhere that I'm going to do a
twofer is first, I use leverageto get more property with a
lower down payment and your IRAcan do that very safely and
rental property.
And number two you can use yourhealth savings account, you can
use your Roth IRA.
You can use your IRA.
(11:47):
You can use your 401k, yourRoth 401k, your SEP, your
Coverdell college savingsaccount, people, any
tax-preferred vehicle you canuse to invest in what you know
best.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, and I think you know, I know you've done like
cows and we've both.
I know I've done rentalproperty too.
You did the rental.
I've invested in privatecompanies and stuff like that.
Xrp, don't forget XRP, xrp.
Yeah, that works.
You did Bitcoin.
Yeah, I did Bitcoin in 2017.
I should have held all of it,but I still got a good ride on
(12:24):
it.
Definitely a good return.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
How much did you buy Bitcoin for when you bought it?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
2,500 per BTC.
Oh my gosh, you know, and it'sfunny because back then that was
a Main Street asset.
It's now a Wall Street asset.
Wall Street buys it now, youknow, yeah, but back in 2017,
wall Street was crapping on it.
Right, it was more of a MainStreet asset, you know so.
But if we think of theseinvestment opportunities, we see
and you know many of ourlisteners you know Main Street
(12:50):
business owners areentrepreneurial.
They like that stuff.
You know, we like kind of beingcaptain of the ship, we like
taking a little bit of risk,betting on ourselves and finding
these opportunities, cuttingdeals, and you just can't do
that with a Wall Streetinvestment.
You just, you know it's like,well, what's the what's it
trading for today, you know.
But in the street assets, youcan use a lot of that expertise
(13:12):
you have, either as a realestate investor or you, where
you know this or as a businessowner, to go find and make deals
happen and get your retirementaccount in a strategic way where
you're building long-termwealth.
And the other thing that Markmentioned earlier was asset
protection.
One thing we found with a lotof our clients over the years is
they're always worried, as abusiness owner, about that
(13:35):
lawsuit one day and losing it.
All you know despite you knowall the blood, sweat and tears
you put into that businesssomething goes wrong and getting
that lawsuit that can wipe youout.
Now we want to use entities forthat.
We talk about that, of course,and using LLCs and corporations
for asset protection, but onething to keep in mind for your
retirement account is you canfile bankruptcy and keep your
(13:56):
retirement account, so yourretirement accounts are asset
protected.
Some states will limit that upto a million dollars.
Most states it's unlimited,though, and it cuts down to a
state by state basis for IRAs.
So just keep in mind that yourretirement account has
incredible asset protection ifsomething does go wrong
somewhere else in your lifewhere you have to file
bankruptcy or you've got alawsuit or creditor chasing you
(14:18):
down.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, there's only two people that can get your IRA
folks the IRS and your ex-wifeor ex-husband.
So just keep that in mind.
It's pretty sweet.
Now here's what I want to do.
I want to give you guys somebasic steps here, if that was
enticing to you at all.
We've got other podcasts wherewe go step by step.
Each podcast is a step, sodon't stress about it.
(14:41):
We'll give you down in the shownotes you can see a reference
to our other podcasts that we'vegot hundreds of shows on the
Directed IRA podcast.
So if you're interested in thisat all, start dipping your toe
into it by going and checkingout that podcast.
But here's some quick steps.
First thing is just think aboutit.
It's funny how the universeworks, like, if you're like I'm
(15:02):
going to look for a deal and Iwant my IRA to invest in a deal,
you know what's weird.
If you go think about buying awhite car, you're going to see
white cars everywhere.
So all of a sudden, deals aregoing to start to fall in your
lap and you're like, oh my gosh,I could do that in my IRA or my
401k.
Number two, I'll just throw outthe first two or three, matt,
(15:22):
and they're in people.
There's a gray area between allthese, meaning sometimes they
happen simultaneously or all atthe same time.
Whatever that means the samething Anyway.
So first thing is start lookingfor deals.
Number two open a self-directedaccount.
We've got it.
Every summer we do an open anaccount special and you could
(15:43):
open an IRA.
It could be an old 401k thatyou just have languishing
somewhere that can roll over.
There's no tax, no penalty.
When you self-direct, it's justlike you're getting rid of your
broker dealer and you're comingover to direct an IRA.
We don't sell you anyinvestments, we're just like
what do you want to do?
It's self-directed, you getthat self-directed, you get to
direct what you want.
(16:03):
So think about investments,open an account and I'll say
number three choose a dollaramount, say I'm going to take 10
grand, 100 grand, a million,whatever it is you want, and say
I'm going to pursue that ideaI've got in a self-directed
format and quit investing insomething I don't understand or
(16:24):
don't want on Wall Street andinvest in something I understand
.
So those are my first three,matt.
Where would you go from there?
Would you add to that?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
yeah, I know, I think that's the great like.
You got to be thinking throughthose things.
Right, that is your, so you'restarting to get ready on what
you're gonna do now.
Then here's how I'm gonna do it.
Let me hit a couple of things.
I'm like all right, yeah, yeah,yeah, do it.
You know.
So you figured that out.
You've thought about the thingsyou want to invest in.
We're not here selling you aninvestment.
By the way, there's no secrethere of like, when you come to
(16:51):
us, we're like you need toinvest in this and we're making
some money on this.
We don't care.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I don't, we don't make money on it, I want you to
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
So this is up to you.
This is the part ofself-directing which can
sometimes be intimidating, butit's exciting too about that.
You're taking control andyou're kind of captain of your
ship on this.
So all right.
So here's the first thing Iwant to make sure everyone
(17:19):
understands.
You know we have our companyDirected IRA where we do this.
You can get directediracom.
Our team will definitely takecare of you, walk you through
the steps and help you along inthis process, but we still want
to make sure you understand whatyou need to do.
The first thing is you're likeall right, I found that deal, I
found that investment, or I knowwhat I want to do.
I've kind of gone through thatthought process that Mark talked
about.
I know how much money I want todo on this.
(17:40):
Well, the problem is, if yourIRA is over at Fidelity,
fidelity is not going to let youdo it.
Fidelity is going to be likewhat ETF do you want?
What mutual fund are youthinking about?
You know that's what you'regoing to get over there.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So yeah, and let me say, let me inject this, matt,
when I said in step three, openan account, you got to have
somewhere the money is going togo into.
So I like, matt, that you'resaying.
Number four is like well, wheream I going to?
Those are two different things,people.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yes, and when most people think of doing this, you
know they already have money inan IRA somewhere right.
There's $17 trillion in IRAsright now.
There's more money in IRAs than401ks in either type of plan.
And so the most common scenariois well, I've got money in an
IRA at Fidelity.
They just don't let me do thisLike I've got kind of the Wall
Street menu over here atFidelity.
(18:32):
So you're like all right, Ifound that deal opportunity I
want to do.
You've opened your account atdirected IRA.
We're just going to transferthe funds over.
So we got to get that accountfunded.
That could be the old 401k.
You could even be making newcontributions of 7,000 bucks a
year in an IRA or maybe 70 grandin a solo.
Okay, but we got to get themoney in that vehicle, that
(18:52):
account type, and so that wouldbe.
The next step is that we got toget the money in.
We opened the right account.
We got the money transferredover or rolled over from an
existing account.
Maybe it's new contributions.
I'd say 90% of our new accounts.
They're just moving money fromWall Street type opportunities
or accounts.
I should say.
Now you're funded and ready togo.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And this is kind of where the fork in the road
happens, people, because ifyou're like, okay, I want to do
crypto, okay, we have an app forthat with Gemini and you can
invest in all the mainstreamtokens and coins and all that,
or you go, I want to lend itCryptocurrencies, you could do.
(19:35):
Go, I want to lend itCryptocurrencies, you could do.
Yeah.
And you may say well, I want todo an LLC where I can get more
creative with crypto and go insome different types of tokens
that are not on a mainstreamexchange and I don't want to use
a mainstream exchange, don'tfeel like you're forced to do
that.
And then some of you mightthink, well, I want to do a note
.
Okay, well, you send us thepaperwork and a direct IRA,
we'll fund that note.
(19:56):
And then there are others saywell, I want to do real estate
or get a little more creativewhere I have control to be able
to pull a trigger quickly.
And I think that's, matt, wherethe LLC comes into play and and
as one of those kind of fork inthe road paths a lot of people
take as well.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, and that would be a strategy within
self-directing.
So maybe I'm using the Roth IRA,maybe I'm using a traditional
IRA there's the differentaccount types you might have
moved funds over to and thenyou're like well, I want to do
the property.
That's a rehab.
I want to go buy the propertyon 123 Green Street and either
(20:32):
flip it or hold it as a buy andhold.
Short-term, long-term rentaldoesn't matter, but there needs
to be a rehab on it.
Okay, well, rather than yourIRA owning that asset directly,
where your IRA is untitled tothe asset, your IRA gets the
income.
Your IRA is paying the expenseand that's an account with us,
by the way.
Okay, so you're working throughyour custodian, whoever that
may be.
We're just the best.
(20:52):
So you could use the inferiorones.
But just use directed IRA wouldbe our suggestion here.
But let's say that you're likewell, matt, dude, I'm going to
have contractors on this.
I may want to buy the propertyat auction.
I'm buying a bunch ofproperties.
We like the IRA LLC for that.
So your IRA doesn't own theasset.
Your IRA invests in a newlycreated LLC.
(21:13):
Our law firm, kkos Lawyers,sets these up.
You can be the manager of theLLC.
You're going to have a bankaccount at the LLC level.
The IRA is going to invest itscash into the LLC, which goes in
the LLC bank account.
Now you don't own the LLC.
Your IRA owns the LLC in theexample here, but you're manager
of the LLC.
Manager of an LLC is likepresident of the corporation,
(21:34):
right.
So you have authority to actfor the LLC.
Now that LLC goes out and cando the real estate deal, it can
pay the contractor.
You can have a debit card,checks, wires all out of that
LLC business checking accountand the LLC is getting the
income right.
The LLC is paying the expenses.
It's growing.
You sell the property.
The gain goes back into the LLCbank account.
Now you don't touch the LLC.
You don't own the LLC.
(21:54):
Your IRA does.
You can keep investing out ofthe LLC.
Go do the next deal, keepbuying more assets, building
your wealth.
But that's a strategy withinself-directing.
Is that IRA LLC?
Some people call it a checkbookIRA and, as Mark said on our
(22:15):
Directed IRA podcast, we've gota whole episode on that.
We've both got videos on thison YouTube where you can get
more info on the IRLC.
Our team at Directed IRA canhelp walk you through the steps
on that.
So that's a common strategy touse where you might want a
little more control,particularly if you're
entrepreneurial.
Maybe you're a real estateinvestor already and you're just
used to doing your deals out ofan LLC.
It's faster, it's easier, youget that checkbook control.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, no, it's great, and I also I think I can
summarize with this Now theworld is your oyster.
You have a new door open to youto access a capital that you
thought was locked up in WallStreet.
You now start partnering withothers because you go hey, you
got a retirement account, let'swork together.
(22:54):
Now you've got even morepossible partners or investors
for lack of a better word orlenders, and you're now.
You've upped your game.
You're more educated, you'remore strategic and you've got a
lot of options.
But that's really it.
I mean, now there's a lot tolearn.
There's prohibited transactions,there's UBIT tax and prohibited
(23:16):
parties, and I can't buy mymom's house and I can't put my
kid to work in there.
Yeah, you can't self-serve.
Just think of that.
I can't benefit myself in thisprocess, but, holy crap, I can
benefit my retirement account.
So I'm going to encourage youto just get over to our other
podcast, start consuming, startlearning.
Open an account.
This summer We've got a specialthe link's down below and you
(23:38):
can open an account for like 100bucks off or whatever,
something like that.
It's a great deal.
Open accounts for your kids.
Every one of my kids have aRoth account.
I want them to have a Rothaccount.
So when I go into a deal I canmake them a partner.
That's not prohibited.
So be thinking outside of thebox and just know that this is a
really exciting, fun journeythat you can go on and your
(23:59):
retirement account can go on.
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, and I think you know this is not for everyone.
I'll say that, you know butit's for a lot more people that
are currently utilizing it.
You business owners, youentrepreneurs, you real estate
investors.
We just know you're into thisstuff.
I mean, mark and I have justtalked to those clients over the
years.
That's who we are and this iswhat we're doing with our own
accounts, and we're here to helpyou along the way.
I wrote the number one book onthis, the Self-Directed IRA
(24:24):
Handbook.
If you're like Matt, I need togeek out on this.
I'm the engineer, I'm the pilot, I just you know, I can't just
watch a podcast.
I need a book, I need all thecitations.
I want to feel good about this.
We've done that.
I mean, we're tax lawyers, allright, no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, we're geeks, we both get excited about it.
So, direct at IRAcom there's ahelpline there too that can help
you get started, and we didn'ttruly want this to sound like an
infomercial and it's not.
We wanted to give you aresource.
You don't have to use us if youdon't like our team, but we've
been in this space for over 20years as a law firm, our
(25:27):
accounting firm, our trustcompany.
We have so many resources inthis area of tax law to help the
average again Main Streetbusiness owner succeed.
So thanks for letting us touchon one of these topics we're so
passionate about today and Iencourage you strongly to get
(25:49):
over to that other podcast.
Get an account open this summer,have a lot of fun going into
the fall investing in somethingnew and different.
And guys, 10 to 15, you'remaking 16% on notes.
That's very common in thedirected IRA space.
You start playing with the ruleof 72.
And if you don't know aboutthat, go chat GBT or Grok rule
(26:10):
of 72.
You started getting a 15 to 20%return.
Your brain will blow up on whatyour money is going to be worth
in five to 10 or 15 years.
So thanks so much for listening.
Matt, you want to take us out?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah, Thanks everyone for listening.
Please, you know, make sureyou're subscribed, share this
with your friends and family,give us a thumbs up or a great
review.
If you have any negativefeedback, you can send that to
Mark.
Of course, post PO box, youknow, one, two, three, whatever,
(26:41):
but send it in on a check.
And yeah, yes, but thankseveryone for listening.
We appreciate it.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Main Street Business Podcast with
your distinguished hosts, mark JKohler and Matt Sorenson.
Both are bestselling authorsand have over 25 years of
industry experience, with 10,000client consultations, making
them the leading tax and legalexperts in the nation.
Together, they'll unpack themost complex tax, legal and
financial strategies crucial forsaving more, stressing less and
(00:22):
building generational wealth.
Crucial for saving more,stressing less and building
generational wealth.
Today they're your personaladvisors, ready to break it down
for you and make the tax andlegal game easier than ever.
Here is Mark and Matt.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
You may want to buy gold or silver, you may want to
buy crypto, you might want to doreal estate and we never think
that, oh, I could be doing thisin my IRA or 401k.
We want to build wealth, paythe least amount in tax and even
asset, protect it when your IRAmakes money, particularly your
Roth IRA.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
nothing goes to the IRS, Anything you put in it.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
You can pull back out tax-free, penalty-free, anytime
you want it.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
This is not for everyone, I'll say that, but
it's for a lot more people thatare currently utilizing it.
Welcome everyone to the MainStreet Business Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, joinedby the incredible Mark J Kohler,
and we're delighted to be withyou today talking about
strategic strategies with aself-directed IRA.
(01:18):
You've got two tax lawyers here.
We've got the 10,000 hours inthe space We've been working in
this.
We co-founded a trust companythat does this and we got
something we want to share.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, and there are ways to better invest your money
and that could and we're notjust talking wall street, we're
talking about maybe your rentalproperty, what your your side
hustle, your brother's business,a startup down the street.
For those that aren't familiarwith this and we have a whole
other podcast on this topic weneeded to bring it to Main
Street today.
(01:48):
We needed to talk aboutsummertime investment strategies
and let you know there's moreout there.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, and I think one of the things we hear from a
lot of our clients on MainStreet and our law firm and as
we're working with clients andtalking to other professionals
across the country is people arethinking like where's the best
place to invest right now?
And if you think about where themoney is, there's $44 trillion
in retirement accounts and thetypical Main Street Americans
most investable section ofdollars is in their IRAs and
(02:19):
401ks, and you've just been toldthat you need to buy a stock
bond or a mutual fund and welove the Main Street investing,
not the Wall Street investingand so how do we bring those
retirement accounts over tothese assets?
We want to hit some strategiesfor you today.
Dive into that, and this issomething Mark and I love.
(02:39):
We do it ourselves.
You know we're eating our owncooking, so to speak, and we're
not here to sell you anythingeither.
If you're not interested inthis and the main street
investing versus Wall Streetinvesting, that's okay.
I'm not trying to convince you.
I just want you to know what'spossible, because you're not
hearing that from your financialadvisor and you're definitely
not hearing it from Wall Street.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, a couple of things.
The plan today we're going toshare some strategies and then
some how-to steps so that, ifsome of you get excited about
this, you know what to do next,where to get a little more
educated on this, how you cantake action.
But one of the first concepts Iwant to share is you don't have
to take your entire IRA or yourentire 401k and go do something
(03:20):
else.
You can say, ooh, I'm going topeel off 10 grand, 20 grand, 200
grand, whatever you got, add azero to it.
So I'm just going to lay it outlike this.
First point is you may want tobuy gold or silver, you may want
to buy crypto, you might wantto do real estate, and we never
think that, oh, I could be doingthis in my IRA or 401k, oh, I
(03:43):
could be doing this in my IRA or401k.
And I mean, matt, the other daysomeone asked you how do I save
taxes?
And it was so funny what yousaid I don't want to steal your
thunder.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah Well, I mean, the first thing we always say
about like, how do I save taxes,is we'll stop making money, and
no one likes that answer.
But what we're saying is Istill want you to build wealth,
but when you make money, it goeson your 1040 and it goes to the
IRS and there's something thatgoes to the state when your IRA
makes money, particularly yourRoth IRA, the number one account
we work with.
Nothing goes to the IRS.
This is growing and coming outtax-free.
(04:18):
It's long-term wealth building.
I'm waiting until I'm 59 and ahalf.
But what we've seen with clientsover the years and I stole that
line from Mark, by the way, Iwill give some attribution is,
and I remember Mark talking to aclient like a real estate
client that was like all bentabout how much taxes he was
paying.
He had a really great yearflipping houses and it was like
well, stop making money.
And the guy's like what kind ofa guy is this?
(04:39):
That's something to stop makingmoney?
He's like, no, you need yourRoth IRA to make money.
So if you're someone like a realestate investor or you like
Main Street assets, like itcould be the gold, the crypto,
it could be small business.
It could be private funds.
I mean, these are kind of morethe Main Street assets, not the
big publicly traded company orthe ETF or whatever.
(05:01):
But if you like those MainStreet assets and you feel like
you have a competitive advantagein that they are more valuable,
have more value over time,they're priced right, you feel
like you can buy them at a goodprice.
We just want you to know youcan do it in your IRA and that
same tool that a lot of peopleare familiar with buying a stock
and selling it for a gain andnot paying taxes, and every
(05:21):
penny you make on it gets to bereinvested and you can compound
and grow that.
If you think about with yourstock portfolio and Wall Street
taught us that Well, that samestrategy and the tax benefits
apply in real estate and theseother Main Street assets.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, when you saw the title of the show.
This is it.
This is a strategy.
We want to build wealth, paythe least amount in tax and even
asset protect it.
Now a couple of you out therethat might be a little younger
are like well, I don't want towait till I'm 59 and a half or
whatever.
Hey, with these Roth accounts,anything you put in it, you can
(05:57):
pull back out tax-free,penalty-free, anytime you want
it.
But let's let the gains rolland ride and snowball and get
going Then.
Another thing I think it's justso important to mention is that
you can invest in things thatyou know best.
And there are some guardrails,like you can't work in the
(06:17):
business your IRA may invest in.
Generally there are.
There are some.
You'll learn more as you godown this path.
But we've got to be carefulthat your Roth IRA is not going
to create a job for you or payyou for what you're going to be
doing.
But when you've got an idea ora strategy or you know of
something in the local area or astrategic advantage, that's not
(06:40):
insider trading.
I don't mean insider trading.
You know something no one elseknows.
Yeah, so does Nancy Pelosi, butyou've got the same runway she
does.
It is not insider trading foryou to invest your IRA in
something you know that no oneelse knows.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, and let's just give a couple of examples here,
just so you guys canconceptualize this, particularly
for anyone new here.
I'll share one.
I've done Mark can share one.
Okay, yeah, let's read Is whereyou see kind of like a main
street investment opportunity.
Right, it's not like some indexfund or ETF or stock, but
you're like I just see this mainstreet opportunity, for example
, like what my account isinvested in right now.
(07:20):
The most recent investment I didout of my own self-directed
retirement account mine's a Roth, but you could do traditional
funds is I'm lending anotherreal estate investor money out
of my account.
I'm charging them 12% interestin two points.
Now when they came to methey're like hey, I'm buying
this deal, the bank won'tfinance it, there's a ton of
equity in it, I'll give you alien in first position and I
(07:43):
know you like to lend on realestate deals because I kind of
told people that.
So I get deals, people willtalk to me about it, and so I'm
like cool, 12% interest andyou're going to pay me two
points, so I'm getting a 14%rate of return.
I usually lend that money twicein six-month loans.
So overall I get the two pointstwice a year, so I'm getting a
(08:05):
16% return on my investment.
Now I could have said, let mejust fund that with my
non-retirement account dollars,you know.
I could have just said, let mejust lend you a hundred grand,
you know, out of my regulardollars.
But if I'm being strategicabout it, which I am I'm
thinking about long-term wealthbuilding, which I am, I'm
thinking about asset protection,which I get in my retirement
account.
I'm going to be more strategicin using my Roth account to do
(08:27):
that.
Because if you think about it,if I lent that person money and
I get let's say, I'm getting 16%rate of return, so I'm getting,
I lend my retirement account,is my retirement account keeps
that entire 16%.
Like that retirement accountkeeps that entire 16%, like that
I get $116,000.
If I did that personally, okay,I'm in the highest tax bracket,
(08:54):
I'm paying state tax.
Let's say, 40% of what I makeon interest income as I'm
lending money is going to thegovernment, like that 16% return
ends up being like 9%, you know.
And so if you're thinking aboutbuilding wealth, we want our
money working for us as best aspossible, and that's where you
can be strategic about it is I'mcompounding this over time my
(09:15):
money, that 100,000, if I keepreinvesting it just on the math
here will be $1.6 millionwithout putting any new
contributions in, if I can keepgetting that return because I
pay no tax, if I do that outsidemy retirement account.
Sorry I'm going long here, butI'm just trying to illustrate
that outside my retirementaccount, where I got to pay
Uncle Sam every year and I'mmaking money but I don't get to
(09:37):
reinvest at all, it's going totake me 30 plus years to get to
$1.6 million versus 18.
And I want to have that moneywhen I'm 45, you know, in my 60s
, not when I'm in my 80s.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, no perfect example.
I'm going to go long now too.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Now let's use it without objection.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I yield the balance of the time.
Thank you, thank you, senatorfrom Arizona.
There is another strategic ideahere.
When we go out and invest, it'svery hard to use leverage.
Leverage is difficult.
You may have heard of marginaccounts and they're very
dangerous.
I'm going to buy stock onmargin.
That's how people end upjumping out of buildings, so we
(10:19):
don't want to do that.
But what's cool with yourretirement account is it can
borrow money non-recourse,meaning your credit doesn't
matter, your FICO score doesn'tmatter.
And so here's an example of oneof mine.
I actually used my healthsavings account.
I still own this property tothis day.
I think I bought it like 10 to12 years ago.
But there was this low-incomehousing, section eight rental.
(10:42):
It was over in Elgin outsideChicago and I was able to put
down six, seven grand becauseit's a low-income housing about
50 grand and it wasseller-financed and they wanted
a first trust deed.
They didn't care what my creditwas, they just wanted 10% down.
(11:03):
So I think I put down like fiveto six grand, bought it for 55
grand, whatever, 10% down.
So I think it put down likefive to six grand, bought it for
55 grand, whatever.
And after section eight, federalrent control area, I'm still
netting a couple hundred bucks amonth.
Now that may not seem a lot,but when you take 12 years at
$200 a month, growing inside myhealth savings account, this
paid for braces for one of mykids tax-free.
(11:26):
So an HSA strategic strategyhere that I'm going to do a
twofer is first, I use leverageto get more property with a
lower down payment and your IRAcan do that very safely and
rental property.
And number two you can use yourhealth savings account, you can
use your Roth IRA.
You can use your IRA.
(11:47):
You can use your 401k, yourRoth 401k, your SEP, your
Coverdell college savingsaccount, people, any
tax-preferred vehicle you canuse to invest in what you know
best.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, and I think you know, I know you've done like
cows and we've both.
I know I've done rentalproperty too.
You did the rental.
I've invested in privatecompanies and stuff like that.
Xrp, don't forget XRP, xrp.
Yeah, that works.
You did Bitcoin.
Yeah, I did Bitcoin in 2017.
I should have held all of it,but I still got a good ride on
(12:24):
it.
Definitely a good return.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
How much did you buy Bitcoin for when you bought it?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
2,500 per BTC.
Oh my gosh, you know, and it'sfunny because back then that was
a Main Street asset.
It's now a Wall Street asset.
Wall Street buys it now, youknow, yeah, but back in 2017,
wall Street was crapping on it.
Right, it was more of a MainStreet asset, you know so.
But if we think of theseinvestment opportunities, we see
and you know many of ourlisteners you know Main Street
(12:50):
business owners areentrepreneurial.
They like that stuff.
You know, we like kind of beingcaptain of the ship, we like
taking a little bit of risk,betting on ourselves and finding
these opportunities, cuttingdeals, and you just can't do
that with a Wall Streetinvestment.
You just, you know it's like,well, what's the what's it
trading for today, you know.
But in the street assets, youcan use a lot of that expertise
(13:12):
you have, either as a realestate investor or you, where
you know this or as a businessowner, to go find and make deals
happen and get your retirementaccount in a strategic way where
you're building long-termwealth.
And the other thing that Markmentioned earlier was asset
protection.
One thing we found with a lotof our clients over the years is
they're always worried, as abusiness owner, about that
(13:35):
lawsuit one day and losing it.
All you know despite you knowall the blood, sweat and tears
you put into that businesssomething goes wrong and getting
that lawsuit that can wipe youout.
Now we want to use entities forthat.
We talk about that, of course,and using LLCs and corporations
for asset protection, but onething to keep in mind for your
retirement account is you canfile bankruptcy and keep your
(13:56):
retirement account, so yourretirement accounts are asset
protected.
Some states will limit that upto a million dollars.
Most states it's unlimited,though, and it cuts down to a
state by state basis for IRAs.
So just keep in mind that yourretirement account has
incredible asset protection ifsomething does go wrong
somewhere else in your lifewhere you have to file
bankruptcy or you've got alawsuit or creditor chasing you
(14:18):
down.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, there's only two people that can get your IRA
folks the IRS and your ex-wifeor ex-husband.
So just keep that in mind.
It's pretty sweet.
Now here's what I want to do.
I want to give you guys somebasic steps here, if that was
enticing to you at all.
We've got other podcasts wherewe go step by step.
Each podcast is a step, sodon't stress about it.
(14:41):
We'll give you down in the shownotes you can see a reference
to our other podcasts that we'vegot hundreds of shows on the
Directed IRA podcast.
So if you're interested in thisat all, start dipping your toe
into it by going and checkingout that podcast.
But here's some quick steps.
First thing is just think aboutit.
It's funny how the universeworks, like, if you're like I'm
(15:02):
going to look for a deal and Iwant my IRA to invest in a deal,
you know what's weird.
If you go think about buying awhite car, you're going to see
white cars everywhere.
So all of a sudden, deals aregoing to start to fall in your
lap and you're like, oh my gosh,I could do that in my IRA or my
401k.
Number two, I'll just throw outthe first two or three, matt,
(15:22):
and they're in people.
There's a gray area between allthese, meaning sometimes they
happen simultaneously or all atthe same time.
Whatever that means the samething Anyway.
So first thing is start lookingfor deals.
Number two open a self-directedaccount.
We've got it.
Every summer we do an open anaccount special and you could
(15:43):
open an IRA.
It could be an old 401k thatyou just have languishing
somewhere that can roll over.
There's no tax, no penalty.
When you self-direct, it's justlike you're getting rid of your
broker dealer and you're comingover to direct an IRA.
We don't sell you anyinvestments, we're just like
what do you want to do?
It's self-directed, you getthat self-directed, you get to
direct what you want.
(16:03):
So think about investments,open an account and I'll say
number three choose a dollaramount, say I'm going to take 10
grand, 100 grand, a million,whatever it is you want, and say
I'm going to pursue that ideaI've got in a self-directed
format and quit investing insomething I don't understand or
(16:24):
don't want on Wall Street andinvest in something I understand
.
So those are my first three,matt.
Where would you go from there?
Would you add to that?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
yeah, I know, I think that's the great like.
You got to be thinking throughthose things.
Right, that is your, so you'restarting to get ready on what
you're gonna do now.
Then here's how I'm gonna do it.
Let me hit a couple of things.
I'm like all right, yeah, yeah,yeah, do it.
You know.
So you figured that out.
You've thought about the thingsyou want to invest in.
We're not here selling you aninvestment.
By the way, there's no secrethere of like, when you come to
(16:51):
us, we're like you need toinvest in this and we're making
some money on this.
We don't care.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
I don't, we don't make money on it, I want you to
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
So this is up to you.
This is the part ofself-directing which can
sometimes be intimidating, butit's exciting too about that.
You're taking control andyou're kind of captain of your
ship on this.
So all right.
So here's the first thing Iwant to make sure everyone
(17:19):
understands.
You know we have our companyDirected IRA where we do this.
You can get directediracom.
Our team will definitely takecare of you, walk you through
the steps and help you along inthis process, but we still want
to make sure you understand whatyou need to do.
The first thing is you're likeall right, I found that deal, I
found that investment, or I knowwhat I want to do.
I've kind of gone through thatthought process that Mark talked
about.
I know how much money I want todo on this.
(17:40):
Well, the problem is, if yourIRA is over at Fidelity,
fidelity is not going to let youdo it.
Fidelity is going to be likewhat ETF do you want?
What mutual fund are youthinking about?
You know that's what you'regoing to get over there.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So yeah, and let me say, let me inject this, matt,
when I said in step three, openan account, you got to have
somewhere the money is going togo into.
So I like, matt, that you'resaying.
Number four is like well, wheream I going to?
Those are two different things,people.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Yes, and when most people think of doing this, you
know they already have money inan IRA somewhere right.
There's $17 trillion in IRAsright now.
There's more money in IRAs than401ks in either type of plan.
And so the most common scenariois well, I've got money in an
IRA at Fidelity.
They just don't let me do thisLike I've got kind of the Wall
Street menu over here atFidelity.
(18:32):
So you're like all right, Ifound that deal opportunity I
want to do.
You've opened your account atdirected IRA.
We're just going to transferthe funds over.
So we got to get that accountfunded.
That could be the old 401k.
You could even be making newcontributions of 7,000 bucks a
year in an IRA or maybe 70 grandin a solo.
Okay, but we got to get themoney in that vehicle, that
(18:52):
account type, and so that wouldbe.
The next step is that we got toget the money in.
We opened the right account.
We got the money transferredover or rolled over from an
existing account.
Maybe it's new contributions.
I'd say 90% of our new accounts.
They're just moving money fromWall Street type opportunities
or accounts.
I should say.
Now you're funded and ready togo.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
And this is kind of where the fork in the road
happens, people, because ifyou're like, okay, I want to do
crypto, okay, we have an app forthat with Gemini and you can
invest in all the mainstreamtokens and coins and all that,
or you go, I want to lend itCryptocurrencies, you could do.
(19:35):
Go, I want to lend itCryptocurrencies, you could do.
Yeah.
And you may say well, I want todo an LLC where I can get more
creative with crypto and go insome different types of tokens
that are not on a mainstreamexchange and I don't want to use
a mainstream exchange, don'tfeel like you're forced to do
that.
And then some of you mightthink, well, I want to do a note
.
Okay, well, you send us thepaperwork and a direct IRA,
we'll fund that note.
(19:56):
And then there are others saywell, I want to do real estate
or get a little more creativewhere I have control to be able
to pull a trigger quickly.
And I think that's, matt, wherethe LLC comes into play and and
as one of those kind of fork inthe road paths a lot of people
take as well.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, and that would be a strategy within
self-directing.
So maybe I'm using the Roth IRA,maybe I'm using a traditional
IRA there's the differentaccount types you might have
moved funds over to and thenyou're like well, I want to do
the property.
That's a rehab.
I want to go buy the propertyon 123 Green Street and either
(20:32):
flip it or hold it as a buy andhold.
Short-term, long-term rentaldoesn't matter, but there needs
to be a rehab on it.
Okay, well, rather than yourIRA owning that asset directly,
where your IRA is untitled tothe asset, your IRA gets the
income.
Your IRA is paying the expenseand that's an account with us,
by the way.
Okay, so you're working throughyour custodian, whoever that
may be.
We're just the best.
(20:52):
So you could use the inferiorones.
But just use directed IRA wouldbe our suggestion here.
But let's say that you're likewell, matt, dude, I'm going to
have contractors on this.
I may want to buy the propertyat auction.
I'm buying a bunch ofproperties.
We like the IRA LLC for that.
So your IRA doesn't own theasset.
Your IRA invests in a newlycreated LLC.
(21:13):
Our law firm, kkos Lawyers,sets these up.
You can be the manager of theLLC.
You're going to have a bankaccount at the LLC level.
The IRA is going to invest itscash into the LLC, which goes in
the LLC bank account.
Now you don't own the LLC.
Your IRA owns the LLC in theexample here, but you're manager
of the LLC.
Manager of an LLC is likepresident of the corporation,
(21:34):
right.
So you have authority to actfor the LLC.
Now that LLC goes out and cando the real estate deal, it can
pay the contractor.
You can have a debit card,checks, wires all out of that
LLC business checking accountand the LLC is getting the
income right.
The LLC is paying the expenses.
It's growing.
You sell the property.
The gain goes back into the LLCbank account.
Now you don't touch the LLC.
You don't own the LLC.
(21:54):
Your IRA does.
You can keep investing out ofthe LLC.
Go do the next deal, keepbuying more assets, building
your wealth.
But that's a strategy withinself-directing.
Is that IRA LLC?
Some people call it a checkbookIRA and, as Mark said on our
(22:15):
Directed IRA podcast, we've gota whole episode on that.
We've both got videos on thison YouTube where you can get
more info on the IRLC.
Our team at Directed IRA canhelp walk you through the steps
on that.
So that's a common strategy touse where you might want a
little more control,particularly if you're
entrepreneurial.
Maybe you're a real estateinvestor already and you're just
used to doing your deals out ofan LLC.
It's faster, it's easier, youget that checkbook control.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, no, it's great, and I also I think I can
summarize with this Now theworld is your oyster.
You have a new door open to youto access a capital that you
thought was locked up in WallStreet.
You now start partnering withothers because you go hey, you
got a retirement account, let'swork together.
(22:54):
Now you've got even morepossible partners or investors
for lack of a better word orlenders, and you're now.
You've upped your game.
You're more educated, you'remore strategic and you've got a
lot of options.
But that's really it.
I mean, now there's a lot tolearn.
There's prohibited transactions,there's UBIT tax and prohibited
(23:16):
parties, and I can't buy mymom's house and I can't put my
kid to work in there.
Yeah, you can't self-serve.
Just think of that.
I can't benefit myself in thisprocess, but, holy crap, I can
benefit my retirement account.
So I'm going to encourage youto just get over to our other
podcast, start consuming, startlearning.
Open an account.
This summer We've got a specialthe link's down below and you
(23:38):
can open an account for like 100bucks off or whatever,
something like that.
It's a great deal.
Open accounts for your kids.
Every one of my kids have aRoth account.
I want them to have a Rothaccount.
So when I go into a deal I canmake them a partner.
That's not prohibited.
So be thinking outside of thebox and just know that this is a
really exciting, fun journeythat you can go on and your
(23:59):
retirement account can go on.
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, and I think you know this is not for everyone.
I'll say that, you know butit's for a lot more people that
are currently utilizing it.
You business owners, youentrepreneurs, you real estate
investors.
We just know you're into thisstuff.
I mean, mark and I have justtalked to those clients over the
years.
That's who we are and this iswhat we're doing with our own
accounts, and we're here to helpyou along the way.
I wrote the number one book onthis, the Self-Directed IRA
(24:24):
Handbook.
If you're like Matt, I need togeek out on this.
I'm the engineer, I'm the pilot, I just you know, I can't just
watch a podcast.
I need a book, I need all thecitations.
I want to feel good about this.
We've done that.
I mean, we're tax lawyers, allright, no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yeah, we're geeks, we both get excited about it.
So, direct at IRAcom there's ahelpline there too that can help
you get started, and we didn'ttruly want this to sound like an
infomercial and it's not.
We wanted to give you aresource.
You don't have to use us if youdon't like our team, but we've
been in this space for over 20years as a law firm, our
(25:27):
accounting firm, our trustcompany.
We have so many resources inthis area of tax law to help the
average again Main Streetbusiness owner succeed.
So thanks for letting us touchon one of these topics we're so
passionate about today and Iencourage you strongly to get
(25:49):
over to that other podcast.
Get an account open this summer,have a lot of fun going into
the fall investing in somethingnew and different.
And guys, 10 to 15, you'remaking 16% on notes.
That's very common in thedirected IRA space.
You start playing with the ruleof 72.
And if you don't know aboutthat, go chat GBT or Grok rule
(26:10):
of 72.
You started getting a 15 to 20%return.
Your brain will blow up on whatyour money is going to be worth
in five to 10 or 15 years.
So thanks so much for listening.
Matt, you want to take us out?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah, Thanks everyone for listening.
Please, you know, make sureyou're subscribed, share this
with your friends and family,give us a thumbs up or a great
review.
If you have any negativefeedback, you can send that to
Mark.
Of course, post PO box, youknow, one, two, three, whatever,
(26:41):
but send it in on a check.
And yeah, yes, but thankseveryone for listening.
We appreciate it.
We'll see you next time.
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