August 8, 2025 • 30 mins
Join Mark and Mat as they discuss the powerful SALT workaround in 36 states. You can have unlimited deductions for state taxes for this workaround strategy and exceed the $40,000 with the workaround.
You’ll learn:
- The 3 steps to see if you qualify for the SALT workaround
- The 3 steps to implement it before year-end
- How to navigate state-specific deadlines and forms
- Why acting in 2025 is critical for 2025 tax savings
Get a comprehensive tax consultation with one of our mains street tax lawyers that can build a tax strategy plan with an affordable consultation that will leave you speechless!!
Here’s the link - https://kkoslawyers.com/services/comprehensive-bus-tax-consult/?utm_source=buzzsprout&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=SALT_Deduction
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Main Street Business Podcast with
your distinguished hosts, mark JKohler and Matt Sorenson.
Both are bestselling authorsand have over 25 years of
industry experience, with 10,000client consultations, making
them the leading tax and legalexperts in the nation.
Together, they'll unpack themost complex tax, legal and
financial strategies crucial forsaving more, stressing less and
(00:22):
building generational wealth.
Crucial for saving more,stressing less and building
generational wealth.
Today they're your personaladvisors, ready to break it down
for you and make the tax andlegal game easier than ever.
Here is Mark and Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
There's three steps to see if you can use this
workaround, and then there'sthree steps to do it.
We want to be focused on thisnow.
Tax planning for 2025 happensin 2025.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You want your advisor to be able to put this all up
on the board like a chess moveand go okay, let's do this, do
this, do this and boom.
All of a sudden you're saving20, 30 grand in taxes that you
never realized you could.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Once you have success as a business owner, your
number one expense becomes taxes.
So if you want to play a littledefense so you're not getting
points scored on you from theIRS in your state, that's tax
planning.
Welcome everyone to the MainStreet Business Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, joinedby the incredible Mark J Kohler.
We are excited to be with youtoday talking about something
(01:18):
that matters on your tax return.
This is about saving on yourfederal tax return for money
you're spending in taxes to thestate.
That's right.
You may be paying taxes to thefederal government on money you
made but actually had to send tothe state.
This is called the SALTdeduction, which has a cap now.
So we want to break this downfor you.
(01:40):
This is hotly contested in theone big beautiful bill, but some
workarounds and some strategieswere preserved here for you
business owners.
So we want to go over that tomake sure you understand how to
maximize this deduction forstate and local taxes you're
paying.
And Mark's going to break itdown for us because he's really
dived into this, had personalexperience with it.
(02:00):
Of course, he's teachingadvisors and tax attorneys
accountants across the countryon the strategies to be
implementing for their clients.
So Mark what do you think aboutthis?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you, and I've liked the way you've explained
this before regarding paying taxtwice almost on the same money.
We'll come back to that, butlet me get this right out here
right now.
There's three steps to see ifyou can use this workaround, and
I'm going to lay those outbecause you need to know this so
that you can have anintelligent conversation with
(02:31):
your tax advisor and thenthere's three steps to do it.
So we're going to talk about doI even qualify and what are the
three things I need to do it.
Now, what I love here is thename workaround, the AICPA.
I got to hand it to them.
Everybody was calling it aloophole.
How they branded this as aworkaround is amazing, because
(02:53):
in the big, beautiful bill, thiswas slated to be eliminated and
at the last minute, thisworkaround was left in there.
So I like their branding.
I'll just tell you that.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I like it.
Someone at the AICPA knows whatthey're doing, that's for sure.
And you kind of you know wherewas the American Bar Association
and tax lawyers?
Leave it to the AICPA.
They're advocating for this.
This is kind of a punitive taxhere.
Let me just say why I thinkthis is so dumb.
Actually, yes, why, yes, why wehad.
You should be entitled to theworkaround.
You should feel good doing theworkaround loophole strategy.
(03:27):
Let's not call it a scheme, butwhatever we want to call it,
you should feel good aboutimplementing this.
Because here's what's happening.
Let's say you make $300,000 ayear as a business owner and
you're in a high-income taxstate and you had to pay $30,000
to the state in taxes, right?
Well, at the end of the day, onyour tax return to the federal
(03:48):
government, you're like I made$270,000, right, because I had
to send $30,000 to the state.
I didn't get $300,000.
I got $270,000.
So, federal government, wouldyou tax me like I made $270,000?
And they were like no, we'renot going to do that.
We'll only let you deduct$10,000 of that $30,000.
That was kind of the old rule,and this is the $10,000 cap of
(04:08):
how much state and local tax youcould deduct.
So the fact that the federalgovernment limits how much of a
deduction you get to take isvery punitive, because you're
paying tax to the federalgovernment on money you already
paid to the state, like youdidn't even get that money.
So it makes sense that youshould have no cap on this.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, and some of you may say well, they increased it
to $40,000.
It doesn't start to phase downuntil you make 500 grand.
So, matt, in your example theworkaround doesn't matter
because they had 30,000 in statetax.
The new limit's $40,000.
They should be okay.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Remember the SALT limitation of$40,000 is state and local
(04:52):
taxes, which includes yourproperty taxes.
So you might have propertytaxes on your primary residence
and some taxes licensing yourvehicles or your RV.
All of that goes into that$40,000 figure.
So when you slap that $30,000figure, so when you slap that 30
grand of state tax in there,you've already chewed up 75% of
that limitation.
Now you've only got 10 grand towrite off property tax and
(05:15):
other DMV type taxes andproperty taxes, personal
property taxes.
So you're already behind theeight ball.
So you got to know this doesmatter because that 40,000 gets
chewed up quicker than yourealize.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, and I guess that's probably the first tip
here, as we talk about threesteps to qualify, I know that
you have Mark, which is you knowif you're making a couple
hundred grand a year and you'rein like like now that the new
cap, by the way, was raised from10.
So it used to be 10, which alot of really even small
business owners, like very smallbusiness owners, were getting
caught up in this, particularlyin higher income tax states.
(05:50):
It came up to 40,000 now.
So that's the new, where youcan just put it right on your
personal return.
You don't have to do thisworkaround strategy we're
talking about.
It's simple you can take that40K deduction, but if you got
more than that, every penny overthat, you're paying tax on
money to the federal government.
You already paid tax to thestate on.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, and Matt nailed it, that's number one.
You've got to ask yourself andthis is the time of year to do
this in.
Third and fourth quarter iswhen you want to have that
strategy session with your taxadvisor, and we'll put a link
down below.
We've got a very, veryaffordable tax lawyer
specializing in small businessfor clients all over the country
where you can get a consult andsay give me a second opinion,
is this an issue for me?
What are my options?
(06:37):
Then you can go to your normalaccountant and lay it out for
them, unless you have a greataccountant that you feel
confident talking about this.
But here's the point Number one.
You've got to say am I buttingup against that $40,000 limit?
Am I going to have a problem?
So you want to be looking atwhat am I going to put away in
(06:57):
charity versus in the SALT,state and local taxes, and am I
going to try to write off somemedical expenses on the itemized
schedule?
And I want to know am I goingto be itemizing or am I going to
be taking the standarddeduction?
The standard deduction is 30grand for a married couple and
then you're going to say well,I've got more than 30 grand in
(07:20):
SALT and charitablecontributions, maybe a little
medical.
And so all of a sudden you'relike, okay, I would rather
itemize than take the standarddeduction and the salt is
causing a problem.
That's your first idea.
If it's not good, you're golden.
You may take the standarddeduction, itemize and not even
(07:43):
max out your SALT.
But if you are maxing out yourSALT, we go to step two.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, and I think the other thing I'd add in there is
on the itemize, you could behaving mortgage interest too,
pushing you up into thatitemizing, of course.
Oh yeah, yes, and so that couldbe pushing you over there.
Okay, so let's say I'm hittingup against that, though, and I
do have over 40K of state andlocal tax and I'm going to lose
(08:12):
out on the deduction.
I'm going to hit the ceilingand get nothing left.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yep.
So step two is do you have an Scorporation, which is going to
primarily be the entity ofchoice here?
You could use an LLC in certainsituations.
If you're using an LLC for this, you got bigger problems.
You should probably have thatLLC in an S corp position.
So this is part of doing a good, comprehensive review with kind
(08:38):
of an outside party.
If we don't save you in taxeswhat it costs to do that review,
if we don't save you in taxeswhat it costs to do that review,
we've screwed up.
We'll have a conversation withyou and we've never refunded
someone's money in the last fiveor six years.
For that case, we will find youmore write-offs than you will
pay us every time.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, what I would say is if you're someone that's
doing this SALT deductionworkaround, you should have
already been doing the babysteps of having an S-corporation
already.
This is a little more advancedstrategy, so we might have to
take you back to baby steps ifyou're not.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And that's the exciting part, everybody.
Just to digress for a momentwhen you open up the can on this
SALT deduction and you startlooking at your S-corp, you're
going to start looking at yourreasonable comp.
Are my family members onpayroll or getting 1099s?
Am I doing my board meetings?
Am I writing off all my travel?
Am I writing off all my dining?
Am I going to use bonusdepreciation this year?
(09:34):
Where's my 109A?
I mean all of this start isinterrelated and you want your
advisor to be able to put thisall up on the board like a chess
move and go okay, let's do this, do this, do this and boom, all
of a sudden you're saving 20,30 grand in taxes that you never
realized you could and you'renot doing anything crazy or wild
or having to go buy some stupidsolar project or throw good
(09:56):
money at bad just to get awrite-off.
It's just putting things in theright box on a return is the
goal.
So step two you know you'regoing to bump up against salt.
Step two do you have an Scorporation?
And if you have an Scorporation, we're in the money,
because now we're going to usethat S corp as part of the
(10:17):
workaround strategy.
If you do not have a smallbusiness, this workaround is not
going to help you.
That small business S-corp iscritical?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, and it's.
You know, even if you knew W-2earners that are high income and
you might have a side hustlethat I don't know that you're
going to get that that strategyis going to work either.
You know we really this incomeneeds to be running through the
S-corp, where you're having thissalt, this state and local tax
being incurred.
So sorry for you W-2 earnersthat are high income in those
(10:49):
high-tax states.
This strategy is not for youbut, of course, the business
owner clients here on MationRevisits Podcast.
This is like one of the manythings and perks that you get as
a business owner.
You take so many risks, ofcourse, running and owning a
business, but this is one of theperks that you get the strategy
to maximize this SALT deductionpast the 40K.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, absolutely no-transcript.
Are you in one of the 36 statesthat allow you to do this?
There's 36 states that willprovide the right tax form to
(11:28):
make this happen.
14 states do not participate inthis.
Now you can go to ChatGBT orGrok.
They'll give you the 36 states.
I've got an article on this downbelow that really lays this out
beautifully in understandablelanguage and if you're enjoying
(11:48):
this podcast, I'm going to laythis all out in that article.
But here's why the statesmatter and here's the strategy.
Instead of you trying to deductyour state income tax that you
paid, like Matt said, you got 30grand.
You're paying to the state.
Normally you would pay for thatpersonally.
You got a personal tax return.
You pay for it personally.
(12:09):
Well, the workaround is, if youhave an S corporation, you're
going to let the S corp pay that30 grand for you.
So your S corporation writesoff the $30,000 in tax that
you're paying personally.
And this is important that thestate tax return allows for this
(12:29):
, and only 36 states comply withthis or will provide for the
strategy.
So you write off the $30,000 onthe federal return, the federal
return and it comes through thestate tax return that you got a
credit for paying this on thefederal return for your
S-corporation.
So your S-corporation pays, ittakes a write-off which reduces
(12:52):
your income.
So that's where the federalsavings is.
You're writing it off in yourS-corp, then the state return
shows it as a credit, anon-refundable credit that you
paid for over on your S-Corp taxreturn.
And that's the connection.
And so then when you go to doyour personal return, your
(13:15):
personal state return is goingto go.
Hey look, I've made thispayment over on my S-Corp
federal.
Give me that credit.
Boom.
So you get the credit forpaying it on the state return.
You get the deduction on thefederal and it doesn't even show
up on your SALT limitation.
Now, this is for state incometax, only in 36 states where
(13:38):
you're paying state income taxand you want to see if your
state allows for this so thatyou can go through these steps
which we're going to come to now, and lay out the three steps to
actually make it happen.
That's the concept of how youpull it off.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, and I think this is a really critical
planning topic because you doneed to do running this through
the right steps and, as Marktalked about earlier, this is
like how you do what to do,running this through the right
steps and, as Mark talked aboutearlier, this is like how you do
what matters and you got tomake sure you're doing this in
the tax year.
A lot of people worry about taxplanning and they think, oh,
it's April 15th or maybe theextension deadline October 15th.
(14:14):
Guys, we're just recordinghistory on that tax return.
At that point, for the mostpart, there's a few things you
can do.
You've got to be focused onthis in the tax year right now,
which is critical for any of youin 2025, thinking about this,
we want to be focused on thisnow.
Tax planning for 2025 happensin 2025.
A lot of our clients they'restarting at the end of third
(14:36):
quarter, beginning of fourthquarter.
We're doing tax planning in ourlaw firm, kko Storage storage
for those clients.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What do I need to be thinking about to get done this
year to save on taxes in 2025,on my 2025 return?
Yeah, now Matt nailed it.
That, of course, is step one.
You've got to make the deposit.
Your S corporation has to writethe check or do the online
electronic deposit, which iswhat all the states pretty much
do.
Now you would log into yourpersonal state tax portal and
(15:09):
you're going to say I want tomake a deposit for 2025 taxes
and my S-Corporation bankaccount is going to provide the
routing number, account number,or you'll write a check with
paper filing, whatever procedureyou use to send that in.
So that's step one.
You've got to plan to send thismoney in before year end.
(15:30):
And some of you are like, oh mygosh, I don't even have that
money around.
What do I do?
Well, cashflow considerationswill have to be taken into
account and if you're makingregular quarterly deposits
anyway, you want to make surethat those deposits are being
allocated in the proper way,which is really what we're
(15:53):
coming to.
Step two and Matt, you and Italk about this all the time is
just sending the state money isone thing.
Letting them know what it's forin the right form is the second
step.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, and I would say too on that paying it on the
first part is, if you haveregular payments going to the
state from your personal accountfor your personal estimated tax
at the state level, stop those.
It's not like you're payingmore.
This is being paid in lieu ofright.
We're not paying more state tax.
(16:24):
We're only paying the state andlocal tax that we have to pay
right.
But the trick here to be ableto use this workaround is don't
pay it personally.
Have it being paid from thecompany bank account.
So for many of you that arepaying on a quarterly basis
right now, you got to reassessthe strategy now.
You got to refocus on this, onwhere that money's coming from.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, perfect.
And step two.
It may sound a little odd thatI'm calling this a step, but it
really is Paying.
It is one thing.
Tying it to the right form andmaking sure you don't miss any
deadlines is step two.
For example, in New York, ifyou're going to make this state
(17:06):
tax deposit for 2025, you haveto do it by September 15th.
And we're coming up on thathere in a month.
And so the state of New Yorksays oh, you want to do this?
All right, we want to see allthis money deposited by
September 15th because we'd loveto earn interest on that for
the fourth quarter if we'regoing to give you this little
(17:28):
benefit.
So the time value of moneycoming into play is always
better to get that write-offthan worrying about annual
interest for three months orfour months.
But New York has a deadline ofSeptember 15th.
California buckle up everybody.
The deadline is June 1st tofile a form that says I'm going
(17:52):
to do this and you have to sendin at least a thousand dollars.
So I hate to say I'm sorryyou're hearing this podcast
later in the year.
If you're in California, you'dwant to call your accountant and
go what the hell?
Why did I not send in $1,000 byJune 1st, with making the
election to do an early statetax deposit procedure.
(18:15):
Now your accountant may havealready done this for you you
don't know so if you're makingregular state deposits.
This is why having a veryengaged conversation with your
tax advisor in third and fourthquarter is so critical again.
And so the moral of the story isall 36 states do this
differently.
In the state of Utah it is anon-refundable credit which I'm
(18:38):
getting into almost step threehere.
Credit which I'm getting intoalmost step three here is that
if you don't use all that moneyfor 2025, you can push it into
2026.
So now you're getting a bite atthe apple for next year at the
same time.
Now there's a little loopholethere I'll talk about as well.
(18:59):
But step two is know your state, know the deadline, know the
form, know the procedure.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So important and I would say for many of you that
are business owners, of course,know that your advisor knows
you're doing this, know that youhave a good tax advisor account
at first, all but actuallyunderstands the strategy and can
execute on it for you and thenbe coordinating with them in
terms of where the state you'reat, where you have your state
(19:27):
and local tax that you need tobe paying, and they should be
coordinating with you on this.
So this should not be on yourlist.
Your list is yours.
I understand the strategy here.
Let me coordinate with myprofessionals and advisors and
have them help me get this done,because, as you're listening to
this, you could be.
I can hear people already like,oh my gosh, this sounds a
(19:48):
little complicated, it's not.
You get in the routine of doingthis and the habit of doing it
and you do it this year and thenyou're going to do it next year
and the following year and itjust gets into this pace of how
you do it.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, and we should have mentioned this probably
back in step one of youranalysis.
If you're making more than 500grand a year, god bless you.
So glad, you're so fortunatethat you're in the 1%.
If you're making more than 500grand a year, well, that 40,000,
it starts to phase down back to10.
(20:18):
So by 600 grand of adjustedgross income, that 40,000 is
gone, it's back down to 10.
And so this SALT becomes evenmore important.
And here's an interesting nuanceand, matt, this is what's cool
is that if you're phasing outwith the SALT, it's based on
your federal AGI and remember,salt includes your property
(20:41):
taxes too.
So if you're making over 500grand a year, you might have a
higher than average cost of home, maybe in a mortgage, maybe
higher property taxes than theaverage person too.
So you're really looking atstate income tax and property
tax.
That's going to be killing you.
And if you're making more than500 grand, if I do this work
(21:01):
around strategy, I'm actuallylowering my AGI to keep my SALT
closer to 40.
So I find between 500 and 600grand of income and I use the
work around, I'm preserving moreof that 40 grand rather than
having it phase out so quicklyso I can throw my property taxes
(21:22):
in there.
So, there's some yin and yanghere, that's kind of I guess I'm
a geeking out on this, but it'skind of fun yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I was even going to say some of that like property
tax stuff.
You're not used to paying itout of your business, right, but
you're still going to have atleast 10 left and depending on
your optimizing it, it, as yousaid there you could be even get
up to the 40s still left.
So even if you use the pastorany taxes what this the pt was
called pastor any taxes kind ofworkaround strategy um, you
(21:52):
still are.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Have that deduction left on your personal for that
property taxes yes, yeah, yeah,because the property tax, your
S-Corp cannot pay that for youand use this strategy.
It's only for income tax.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
So we want to try to Maybe a business vehicle or
something like that, I guess.
Or like well, it's only incometax, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's for your primary residence.
Property tax is an itemizeddeduction up to a certain value,
so you're going to have to lookat that in this equation.
Now let's back to the finalstep.
So you're going to put themoney away, you're preparing to
do it, you're going to look atyour state deadlines and the
forms and the procedure.
(22:31):
The final step is being engagedon the back end of this when
you go to do your 1040 taxreturn in the spring.
You've got to be a littlewatchdog and look for this.
I know that sounds a littlecrazy and you don't have to be
trained in tax preparation to dothis, but you've got to be able
to talk about it with youraccountant.
(22:53):
A little reveal here.
This happened to me.
I always use an outside partyto help prepare my returns
because I'm in the weeds.
I want to have a second set ofeyes on it.
And a couple of years ago, whenthe workaround was just
starting to get more and morepopular, I told my account make
sure you do that.
And I took a glance at it and Iwas like okay, perfect.
(23:13):
Well, it was off by one box onthe state return, because I file
in three states, because wehave offices in three states and
it was off one box.
Well, it required me to amendmy return.
Even though I made the deposit,it wasn't reported in the
spring in the right spot.
So I made the deposit rightwith the right form, but then I
(23:36):
didn't report it properly on the1040 and the state tax return.
So that connection occurred soI had to amend the return.
Well, guess what happens whenyou amend a return, you get
audited.
So this tax auditor from thestate calls up and wants to look
at it.
And there was no problem and itwasn't like a big audit per se,
but it just created anothermonth of headache.
(23:57):
So I had to get on a phone call.
Oh look, and we.
But it just created anothermonth of headache.
So I had to get on a phone call.
Oh look, and we got the creditand it was all good.
But there's a lot of strategyinvolved here, because you may
be still making deposits on yourspouse's W-2 for state taxes.
Those are refundable.
But a lot of times thisstrategy is not refundable.
So you wanna also look well,how much is my spouse putting in
(24:19):
on state tax deposit, how mucham I doing in my S-corp and how
much is going to be refundableif I, because if I aim too high,
I don't know if I want to loseout on that use of the money for
another freaking year.
So this is the beauty of havinga good tax advisor, and I'm
going to say it one last timeplease get a comprehensive tax
(24:40):
consult with one of our taxlawyers that can walk you
through this, show you what tobe aware of, so that you can
quarterback your team.
You don't have to do it.
You don't have to be therunning back and the receiver
and all these positions, but yougot to be the one on the field
ready to yell Omaha and justcall a different play if you
(25:00):
have to yeah, a little peytonmanning.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Um, all right.
Well, I think this is a a greatstrategy for many of you, and
again, this is a little highincome.
So if you're like, um, I'm, I'mgood, I'm under this 40k, I
don't need to worry about thatgreat, we got an increased
deduction.
A lot of you that have smallerbusinesses where you don't need
to worry about this.
You, you're going to have thathigher deduction.
But this pass-through entitydeduction is an incredible
(25:25):
strategy.
It's one about threading theneedle.
I like to think of it more of aloophole.
We can use workaround.
That sounds a lot more.
That sounds better.
In Washington DC, nobody likesto say the word loophole.
That's like a swear word.
It's a workaround.
But, mark, awesome.
I love how you broke that downthough, too.
Three steps to qualify, threesteps to implement that, to take
(25:47):
advantage of this deduction,and this is something that could
.
There's literally tens ofthousands of dollars in tax
savings and, for many of you,even higher, higher incomes.
I mean, you could be very highincome person and this could be
hundreds of thousands of dollarsin tax savings by doing this
properly.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, it's just it can get.
I know I'm going to throw outone thought I want you guys to
have.
The trick to life I'm learningmore and more as I get older is
having the right mindset If Ihave a mindset of expecting
perfection or someone else totake care of this for me, or I
(26:26):
shouldn't have to worry aboutthis.
We know crap happens and it'snot always going to go perfectly
, but we set ourselves up forfeelings of frustration, regret,
anger, all these things thatare just not productive.
And so I would challenge you toI know this is going to sound
crazy everybody, but I wouldchallenge you to think of tax
(26:49):
planning as fun, and here's whyI would suggest it be fun.
Have you ever gone to the store,especially a black Monday,
black Friday, whatever they are?
And you go and it's more abouthow much you're saving than what
you're spending, and it'spretty fun.
You're like man, I'm gettingsavings everywhere and some of
(27:12):
you are like that.
In certain acquisitions in yourlife.
You're going to really drilldown on that car purchase or
that cell phone purchase.
I'm going to stick it to themand you know it becomes a
challenge and fun and your taxreturn can be that way you can
find workarounds, you can bestrategic, you can learn the
balancing act and the yin andyang of certain write-offs, and
(27:34):
you don't have to be a rocketscientist to do this.
It's not that overwhelming andit can be really exciting and
fun.
And when you go in with thatmindset, you're going to have to
do the work anyway.
So why not try to create ascenario where it's a little
more enjoyable?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah, and I come just from the mindset of it's really
hard out there to go make moneyand earn it and we want to keep
as much of it in our pockets aspossible.
And tax planning once you havesuccess as a business owner,
your number one expense becomestaxes.
So if you want to play a littledefense so you're not getting
points scored on you from theIRS in your state, that's tax
planning.
So maybe we want to gamify ithere or something.
(28:13):
But we of course, love taxplanning and helping our clients
across the country save ontaxes.
And it's strategies like thisand it's not a one thing either.
It's not just like oh, I dothis one thing, I save taxes.
No, it might be 10 or 12 thingsand we might look at 30 or 40,
but you end up implementing 10or 12.
That really move the needle andhelp you save taxes.
The nice thing is you get agood plan, you get a good
(28:35):
structure, you can get focusedon that, what works for you, and
then it gets a little moreroutine.
You still want to learn anddevelop new strategies.
Listen to the podcast.
We're, of course, updating youon new things we learn and
changes in the law, but itreally moves the needle and it
can be very meaningful to you asyou're trying to go out there
and grow and build well, Well, Ilove the way you said that and
(28:57):
we'll wrap it up on that.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
You just gave it the right term.
I love the way you said thatand we'll wrap it up on that.
You just gave it the right termgamify, Gamify this process,
and if you're a gamer, you knowthere's not one strategy that's
going to help you win anyparticular game and be on the
leaderboard.
It's a combination of things,and so if you can gamify this
tax planning, it might give youa little extra mojo to get
(29:19):
through the process, and Ichallenge all of you to do a
strategy session before year endas soon as possible, frankly,
but we're here for you.
We're excited to be a part ofyour life.
Thank you for listening to thispodcast.
Please share it with someone.
Give us a five star, two thumbsup, high five, 10 out of 10,
whatever the hell.
We appreciate it, and we willbe back here next week on the
(29:40):
Main Street Business Podcasttrying to talk about things that
actually move the needle, as mypartner just said, and make a
difference in all of our effortsto better live the American
dream.
Thanks so much for listeningand or watching on YouTube.
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Main Street Business Podcast with
your distinguished hosts, mark JKohler and Matt Sorenson.
Both are bestselling authorsand have over 25 years of
industry experience, with 10,000client consultations, making
them the leading tax and legalexperts in the nation.
Together, they'll unpack themost complex tax, legal and
financial strategies crucial forsaving more, stressing less and
(00:22):
building generational wealth.
Crucial for saving more,stressing less and building
generational wealth.
Today they're your personaladvisors, ready to break it down
for you and make the tax andlegal game easier than ever.
Here is Mark and Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
There's three steps to see if you can use this
workaround, and then there'sthree steps to do it.
We want to be focused on thisnow.
Tax planning for 2025 happensin 2025.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You want your advisor to be able to put this all up
on the board like a chess moveand go okay, let's do this, do
this, do this and boom.
All of a sudden you're saving20, 30 grand in taxes that you
never realized you could.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Once you have success as a business owner, your
number one expense becomes taxes.
So if you want to play a littledefense so you're not getting
points scored on you from theIRS in your state, that's tax
planning.
Welcome everyone to the MainStreet Business Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, joinedby the incredible Mark J Kohler.
We are excited to be with youtoday talking about something
(01:18):
that matters on your tax return.
This is about saving on yourfederal tax return for money
you're spending in taxes to thestate.
That's right.
You may be paying taxes to thefederal government on money you
made but actually had to send tothe state.
This is called the SALTdeduction, which has a cap now.
So we want to break this downfor you.
(01:40):
This is hotly contested in theone big beautiful bill, but some
workarounds and some strategieswere preserved here for you
business owners.
So we want to go over that tomake sure you understand how to
maximize this deduction forstate and local taxes you're
paying.
And Mark's going to break itdown for us because he's really
dived into this, had personalexperience with it.
(02:00):
Of course, he's teachingadvisors and tax attorneys
accountants across the countryon the strategies to be
implementing for their clients.
So Mark what do you think aboutthis?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you, and I've liked the way you've explained
this before regarding paying taxtwice almost on the same money.
We'll come back to that, butlet me get this right out here
right now.
There's three steps to see ifyou can use this workaround, and
I'm going to lay those outbecause you need to know this so
that you can have anintelligent conversation with
(02:31):
your tax advisor and thenthere's three steps to do it.
So we're going to talk about doI even qualify and what are the
three things I need to do it.
Now, what I love here is thename workaround, the AICPA.
I got to hand it to them.
Everybody was calling it aloophole.
How they branded this as aworkaround is amazing, because
(02:53):
in the big, beautiful bill, thiswas slated to be eliminated and
at the last minute, thisworkaround was left in there.
So I like their branding.
I'll just tell you that.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I like it.
Someone at the AICPA knows whatthey're doing, that's for sure.
And you kind of you know wherewas the American Bar Association
and tax lawyers?
Leave it to the AICPA.
They're advocating for this.
This is kind of a punitive taxhere.
Let me just say why I thinkthis is so dumb.
Actually, yes, why, yes, why wehad.
You should be entitled to theworkaround.
You should feel good doing theworkaround loophole strategy.
(03:27):
Let's not call it a scheme, butwhatever we want to call it,
you should feel good aboutimplementing this.
Because here's what's happening.
Let's say you make $300,000 ayear as a business owner and
you're in a high-income taxstate and you had to pay $30,000
to the state in taxes, right?
Well, at the end of the day, onyour tax return to the federal
(03:48):
government, you're like I made$270,000, right, because I had
to send $30,000 to the state.
I didn't get $300,000.
I got $270,000.
So, federal government, wouldyou tax me like I made $270,000?
And they were like no, we'renot going to do that.
We'll only let you deduct$10,000 of that $30,000.
That was kind of the old rule,and this is the $10,000 cap of
(04:08):
how much state and local tax youcould deduct.
So the fact that the federalgovernment limits how much of a
deduction you get to take isvery punitive, because you're
paying tax to the federalgovernment on money you already
paid to the state, like youdidn't even get that money.
So it makes sense that youshould have no cap on this.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, and some of you may say well, they increased it
to $40,000.
It doesn't start to phase downuntil you make 500 grand.
So, matt, in your example theworkaround doesn't matter
because they had 30,000 in statetax.
The new limit's $40,000.
They should be okay.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Remember the SALT limitation of$40,000 is state and local
(04:52):
taxes, which includes yourproperty taxes.
So you might have propertytaxes on your primary residence
and some taxes licensing yourvehicles or your RV.
All of that goes into that$40,000 figure.
So when you slap that $30,000figure, so when you slap that 30
grand of state tax in there,you've already chewed up 75% of
that limitation.
Now you've only got 10 grand towrite off property tax and
(05:15):
other DMV type taxes andproperty taxes, personal
property taxes.
So you're already behind theeight ball.
So you got to know this doesmatter because that 40,000 gets
chewed up quicker than yourealize.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, and I guess that's probably the first tip
here, as we talk about threesteps to qualify, I know that
you have Mark, which is you knowif you're making a couple
hundred grand a year and you'rein like like now that the new
cap, by the way, was raised from10.
So it used to be 10, which alot of really even small
business owners, like very smallbusiness owners, were getting
caught up in this, particularlyin higher income tax states.
(05:50):
It came up to 40,000 now.
So that's the new, where youcan just put it right on your
personal return.
You don't have to do thisworkaround strategy we're
talking about.
It's simple you can take that40K deduction, but if you got
more than that, every penny overthat, you're paying tax on
money to the federal government.
You already paid tax to thestate on.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, and Matt nailed it, that's number one.
You've got to ask yourself andthis is the time of year to do
this in.
Third and fourth quarter iswhen you want to have that
strategy session with your taxadvisor, and we'll put a link
down below.
We've got a very, veryaffordable tax lawyer
specializing in small businessfor clients all over the country
where you can get a consult andsay give me a second opinion,
is this an issue for me?
What are my options?
(06:37):
Then you can go to your normalaccountant and lay it out for
them, unless you have a greataccountant that you feel
confident talking about this.
But here's the point Number one.
You've got to say am I buttingup against that $40,000 limit?
Am I going to have a problem?
So you want to be looking atwhat am I going to put away in
(06:57):
charity versus in the SALT,state and local taxes, and am I
going to try to write off somemedical expenses on the itemized
schedule?
And I want to know am I goingto be itemizing or am I going to
be taking the standarddeduction?
The standard deduction is 30grand for a married couple and
then you're going to say well,I've got more than 30 grand in
(07:20):
SALT and charitablecontributions, maybe a little
medical.
And so all of a sudden you'relike, okay, I would rather
itemize than take the standarddeduction and the salt is
causing a problem.
That's your first idea.
If it's not good, you're golden.
You may take the standarddeduction, itemize and not even
(07:43):
max out your SALT.
But if you are maxing out yourSALT, we go to step two.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, and I think the other thing I'd add in there is
on the itemize, you could behaving mortgage interest too,
pushing you up into thatitemizing, of course.
Oh yeah, yes, and so that couldbe pushing you over there.
Okay, so let's say I'm hittingup against that, though, and I
do have over 40K of state andlocal tax and I'm going to lose
(08:12):
out on the deduction.
I'm going to hit the ceilingand get nothing left.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yep.
So step two is do you have an Scorporation, which is going to
primarily be the entity ofchoice here?
You could use an LLC in certainsituations.
If you're using an LLC for this, you got bigger problems.
You should probably have thatLLC in an S corp position.
So this is part of doing a good, comprehensive review with kind
(08:38):
of an outside party.
If we don't save you in taxeswhat it costs to do that review,
if we don't save you in taxeswhat it costs to do that review,
we've screwed up.
We'll have a conversation withyou and we've never refunded
someone's money in the last fiveor six years.
For that case, we will find youmore write-offs than you will
pay us every time.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah, what I would say is if you're someone that's
doing this SALT deductionworkaround, you should have
already been doing the babysteps of having an S-corporation
already.
This is a little more advancedstrategy, so we might have to
take you back to baby steps ifyou're not.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And that's the exciting part, everybody.
Just to digress for a momentwhen you open up the can on this
SALT deduction and you startlooking at your S-corp, you're
going to start looking at yourreasonable comp.
Are my family members onpayroll or getting 1099s?
Am I doing my board meetings?
Am I writing off all my travel?
Am I writing off all my dining?
Am I going to use bonusdepreciation this year?
(09:34):
Where's my 109A?
I mean all of this start isinterrelated and you want your
advisor to be able to put thisall up on the board like a chess
move and go okay, let's do this, do this, do this and boom, all
of a sudden you're saving 20,30 grand in taxes that you never
realized you could and you'renot doing anything crazy or wild
or having to go buy some stupidsolar project or throw good
(09:56):
money at bad just to get awrite-off.
It's just putting things in theright box on a return is the
goal.
So step two you know you'regoing to bump up against salt.
Step two do you have an Scorporation?
And if you have an Scorporation, we're in the money,
because now we're going to usethat S corp as part of the
(10:17):
workaround strategy.
If you do not have a smallbusiness, this workaround is not
going to help you.
That small business S-corp iscritical?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yeah, and it's.
You know, even if you knew W-2earners that are high income and
you might have a side hustlethat I don't know that you're
going to get that that strategyis going to work either.
You know we really this incomeneeds to be running through the
S-corp, where you're having thissalt, this state and local tax
being incurred.
So sorry for you W-2 earnersthat are high income in those
(10:49):
high-tax states.
This strategy is not for youbut, of course, the business
owner clients here on MationRevisits Podcast.
This is like one of the manythings and perks that you get as
a business owner.
You take so many risks, ofcourse, running and owning a
business, but this is one of theperks that you get the strategy
to maximize this SALT deductionpast the 40K.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, absolutely no-transcript.
Are you in one of the 36 statesthat allow you to do this?
There's 36 states that willprovide the right tax form to
(11:28):
make this happen.
14 states do not participate inthis.
Now you can go to ChatGBT orGrok.
They'll give you the 36 states.
I've got an article on this downbelow that really lays this out
beautifully in understandablelanguage and if you're enjoying
(11:48):
this podcast, I'm going to laythis all out in that article.
But here's why the statesmatter and here's the strategy.
Instead of you trying to deductyour state income tax that you
paid, like Matt said, you got 30grand.
You're paying to the state.
Normally you would pay for thatpersonally.
You got a personal tax return.
You pay for it personally.
(12:09):
Well, the workaround is, if youhave an S corporation, you're
going to let the S corp pay that30 grand for you.
So your S corporation writesoff the $30,000 in tax that
you're paying personally.
And this is important that thestate tax return allows for this
(12:29):
, and only 36 states comply withthis or will provide for the
strategy.
So you write off the $30,000 onthe federal return, the federal
return and it comes through thestate tax return that you got a
credit for paying this on thefederal return for your
S-corporation.
So your S-corporation pays, ittakes a write-off which reduces
(12:52):
your income.
So that's where the federalsavings is.
You're writing it off in yourS-corp, then the state return
shows it as a credit, anon-refundable credit that you
paid for over on your S-Corp taxreturn.
And that's the connection.
And so then when you go to doyour personal return, your
(13:15):
personal state return is goingto go.
Hey look, I've made thispayment over on my S-Corp
federal.
Give me that credit.
Boom.
So you get the credit forpaying it on the state return.
You get the deduction on thefederal and it doesn't even show
up on your SALT limitation.
Now, this is for state incometax, only in 36 states where
(13:38):
you're paying state income taxand you want to see if your
state allows for this so thatyou can go through these steps
which we're going to come to now, and lay out the three steps to
actually make it happen.
That's the concept of how youpull it off.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, and I think this is a really critical
planning topic because you doneed to do running this through
the right steps and, as Marktalked about earlier, this is
like how you do what to do,running this through the right
steps and, as Mark talked aboutearlier, this is like how you do
what matters and you got tomake sure you're doing this in
the tax year.
A lot of people worry about taxplanning and they think, oh,
it's April 15th or maybe theextension deadline October 15th.
(14:14):
Guys, we're just recordinghistory on that tax return.
At that point, for the mostpart, there's a few things you
can do.
You've got to be focused onthis in the tax year right now,
which is critical for any of youin 2025, thinking about this,
we want to be focused on thisnow.
Tax planning for 2025 happensin 2025.
A lot of our clients they'restarting at the end of third
(14:36):
quarter, beginning of fourthquarter.
We're doing tax planning in ourlaw firm, kko Storage storage
for those clients.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
What do I need to be thinking about to get done this
year to save on taxes in 2025,on my 2025 return?
Yeah, now Matt nailed it.
That, of course, is step one.
You've got to make the deposit.
Your S corporation has to writethe check or do the online
electronic deposit, which iswhat all the states pretty much
do.
Now you would log into yourpersonal state tax portal and
(15:09):
you're going to say I want tomake a deposit for 2025 taxes
and my S-Corporation bankaccount is going to provide the
routing number, account number,or you'll write a check with
paper filing, whatever procedureyou use to send that in.
So that's step one.
You've got to plan to send thismoney in before year end.
(15:30):
And some of you are like, oh mygosh, I don't even have that
money around.
What do I do?
Well, cashflow considerationswill have to be taken into
account and if you're makingregular quarterly deposits
anyway, you want to make surethat those deposits are being
allocated in the proper way,which is really what we're
(15:53):
coming to.
Step two and Matt, you and Italk about this all the time is
just sending the state money isone thing.
Letting them know what it's forin the right form is the second
step.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, and I would say too on that paying it on the
first part is, if you haveregular payments going to the
state from your personal accountfor your personal estimated tax
at the state level, stop those.
It's not like you're payingmore.
This is being paid in lieu ofright.
We're not paying more state tax.
(16:24):
We're only paying the state andlocal tax that we have to pay
right.
But the trick here to be ableto use this workaround is don't
pay it personally.
Have it being paid from thecompany bank account.
So for many of you that arepaying on a quarterly basis
right now, you got to reassessthe strategy now.
You got to refocus on this, onwhere that money's coming from.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, perfect.
And step two.
It may sound a little odd thatI'm calling this a step, but it
really is Paying.
It is one thing.
Tying it to the right form andmaking sure you don't miss any
deadlines is step two.
For example, in New York, ifyou're going to make this state
(17:06):
tax deposit for 2025, you haveto do it by September 15th.
And we're coming up on thathere in a month.
And so the state of New Yorksays oh, you want to do this?
All right, we want to see allthis money deposited by
September 15th because we'd loveto earn interest on that for
the fourth quarter if we'regoing to give you this little
(17:28):
benefit.
So the time value of moneycoming into play is always
better to get that write-offthan worrying about annual
interest for three months orfour months.
But New York has a deadline ofSeptember 15th.
California buckle up everybody.
The deadline is June 1st tofile a form that says I'm going
(17:52):
to do this and you have to sendin at least a thousand dollars.
So I hate to say I'm sorryyou're hearing this podcast
later in the year.
If you're in California, you'dwant to call your accountant and
go what the hell?
Why did I not send in $1,000 byJune 1st, with making the
election to do an early statetax deposit procedure.
(18:15):
Now your accountant may havealready done this for you you
don't know so if you're makingregular state deposits.
This is why having a veryengaged conversation with your
tax advisor in third and fourthquarter is so critical again.
And so the moral of the story isall 36 states do this
differently.
In the state of Utah it is anon-refundable credit which I'm
(18:38):
getting into almost step threehere.
Credit which I'm getting intoalmost step three here is that
if you don't use all that moneyfor 2025, you can push it into
2026.
So now you're getting a bite atthe apple for next year at the
same time.
Now there's a little loopholethere I'll talk about as well.
(18:59):
But step two is know your state, know the deadline, know the
form, know the procedure.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
So important and I would say for many of you that
are business owners, of course,know that your advisor knows
you're doing this, know that youhave a good tax advisor account
at first, all but actuallyunderstands the strategy and can
execute on it for you and thenbe coordinating with them in
terms of where the state you'reat, where you have your state
(19:27):
and local tax that you need tobe paying, and they should be
coordinating with you on this.
So this should not be on yourlist.
Your list is yours.
I understand the strategy here.
Let me coordinate with myprofessionals and advisors and
have them help me get this done,because, as you're listening to
this, you could be.
I can hear people already like,oh my gosh, this sounds a
(19:48):
little complicated, it's not.
You get in the routine of doingthis and the habit of doing it
and you do it this year and thenyou're going to do it next year
and the following year and itjust gets into this pace of how
you do it.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, and we should have mentioned this probably
back in step one of youranalysis.
If you're making more than 500grand a year, god bless you.
So glad, you're so fortunatethat you're in the 1%.
If you're making more than 500grand a year, well, that 40,000,
it starts to phase down back to10.
(20:18):
So by 600 grand of adjustedgross income, that 40,000 is
gone, it's back down to 10.
And so this SALT becomes evenmore important.
And here's an interesting nuanceand, matt, this is what's cool
is that if you're phasing outwith the SALT, it's based on
your federal AGI and remember,salt includes your property
(20:41):
taxes too.
So if you're making over 500grand a year, you might have a
higher than average cost of home, maybe in a mortgage, maybe
higher property taxes than theaverage person too.
So you're really looking atstate income tax and property
tax.
That's going to be killing you.
And if you're making more than500 grand, if I do this work
(21:01):
around strategy, I'm actuallylowering my AGI to keep my SALT
closer to 40.
So I find between 500 and 600grand of income and I use the
work around, I'm preserving moreof that 40 grand rather than
having it phase out so quicklyso I can throw my property taxes
(21:22):
in there.
So, there's some yin and yanghere, that's kind of I guess I'm
a geeking out on this, but it'skind of fun yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
I was even going to say some of that like property
tax stuff.
You're not used to paying itout of your business, right, but
you're still going to have atleast 10 left and depending on
your optimizing it, it, as yousaid there you could be even get
up to the 40s still left.
So even if you use the pastorany taxes what this the pt was
called pastor any taxes kind ofworkaround strategy um, you
(21:52):
still are.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Have that deduction left on your personal for that
property taxes yes, yeah, yeah,because the property tax, your
S-Corp cannot pay that for youand use this strategy.
It's only for income tax.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
So we want to try to Maybe a business vehicle or
something like that, I guess.
Or like well, it's only incometax, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's for your primary residence.
Property tax is an itemizeddeduction up to a certain value,
so you're going to have to lookat that in this equation.
Now let's back to the finalstep.
So you're going to put themoney away, you're preparing to
do it, you're going to look atyour state deadlines and the
forms and the procedure.
(22:31):
The final step is being engagedon the back end of this when
you go to do your 1040 taxreturn in the spring.
You've got to be a littlewatchdog and look for this.
I know that sounds a littlecrazy and you don't have to be
trained in tax preparation to dothis, but you've got to be able
to talk about it with youraccountant.
(22:53):
A little reveal here.
This happened to me.
I always use an outside partyto help prepare my returns
because I'm in the weeds.
I want to have a second set ofeyes on it.
And a couple of years ago, whenthe workaround was just
starting to get more and morepopular, I told my account make
sure you do that.
And I took a glance at it and Iwas like okay, perfect.
(23:13):
Well, it was off by one box onthe state return, because I file
in three states, because wehave offices in three states and
it was off one box.
Well, it required me to amendmy return.
Even though I made the deposit,it wasn't reported in the
spring in the right spot.
So I made the deposit rightwith the right form, but then I
(23:36):
didn't report it properly on the1040 and the state tax return.
So that connection occurred soI had to amend the return.
Well, guess what happens whenyou amend a return, you get
audited.
So this tax auditor from thestate calls up and wants to look
at it.
And there was no problem and itwasn't like a big audit per se,
but it just created anothermonth of headache.
(23:57):
So I had to get on a phone call.
Oh look, and we.
But it just created anothermonth of headache.
So I had to get on a phone call.
Oh look, and we got the creditand it was all good.
But there's a lot of strategyinvolved here, because you may
be still making deposits on yourspouse's W-2 for state taxes.
Those are refundable.
But a lot of times thisstrategy is not refundable.
So you wanna also look well,how much is my spouse putting in
(24:19):
on state tax deposit, how mucham I doing in my S-corp and how
much is going to be refundableif I, because if I aim too high,
I don't know if I want to loseout on that use of the money for
another freaking year.
So this is the beauty of havinga good tax advisor, and I'm
going to say it one last timeplease get a comprehensive tax
(24:40):
consult with one of our taxlawyers that can walk you
through this, show you what tobe aware of, so that you can
quarterback your team.
You don't have to do it.
You don't have to be therunning back and the receiver
and all these positions, but yougot to be the one on the field
ready to yell Omaha and justcall a different play if you
(25:00):
have to yeah, a little peytonmanning.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Um, all right.
Well, I think this is a a greatstrategy for many of you, and
again, this is a little highincome.
So if you're like, um, I'm, I'mgood, I'm under this 40k, I
don't need to worry about thatgreat, we got an increased
deduction.
A lot of you that have smallerbusinesses where you don't need
to worry about this.
You, you're going to have thathigher deduction.
But this pass-through entitydeduction is an incredible
(25:25):
strategy.
It's one about threading theneedle.
I like to think of it more of aloophole.
We can use workaround.
That sounds a lot more.
That sounds better.
In Washington DC, nobody likesto say the word loophole.
That's like a swear word.
It's a workaround.
But, mark, awesome.
I love how you broke that downthough, too.
Three steps to qualify, threesteps to implement that, to take
(25:47):
advantage of this deduction,and this is something that could
.
There's literally tens ofthousands of dollars in tax
savings and, for many of you,even higher, higher incomes.
I mean, you could be very highincome person and this could be
hundreds of thousands of dollarsin tax savings by doing this
properly.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, it's just it can get.
I know I'm going to throw outone thought I want you guys to
have.
The trick to life I'm learningmore and more as I get older is
having the right mindset If Ihave a mindset of expecting
perfection or someone else totake care of this for me, or I
(26:26):
shouldn't have to worry aboutthis.
We know crap happens and it'snot always going to go perfectly
, but we set ourselves up forfeelings of frustration, regret,
anger, all these things thatare just not productive.
And so I would challenge you toI know this is going to sound
crazy everybody, but I wouldchallenge you to think of tax
(26:49):
planning as fun, and here's whyI would suggest it be fun.
Have you ever gone to the store,especially a black Monday,
black Friday, whatever they are?
And you go and it's more abouthow much you're saving than what
you're spending, and it'spretty fun.
You're like man, I'm gettingsavings everywhere and some of
(27:12):
you are like that.
In certain acquisitions in yourlife.
You're going to really drilldown on that car purchase or
that cell phone purchase.
I'm going to stick it to themand you know it becomes a
challenge and fun and your taxreturn can be that way you can
find workarounds, you can bestrategic, you can learn the
balancing act and the yin andyang of certain write-offs, and
(27:34):
you don't have to be a rocketscientist to do this.
It's not that overwhelming andit can be really exciting and
fun.
And when you go in with thatmindset, you're going to have to
do the work anyway.
So why not try to create ascenario where it's a little
more enjoyable?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah, and I come just from the mindset of it's really
hard out there to go make moneyand earn it and we want to keep
as much of it in our pockets aspossible.
And tax planning once you havesuccess as a business owner,
your number one expense becomestaxes.
So if you want to play a littledefense so you're not getting
points scored on you from theIRS in your state, that's tax
planning.
So maybe we want to gamify ithere or something.
(28:13):
But we of course, love taxplanning and helping our clients
across the country save ontaxes.
And it's strategies like thisand it's not a one thing either.
It's not just like oh, I dothis one thing, I save taxes.
No, it might be 10 or 12 thingsand we might look at 30 or 40,
but you end up implementing 10or 12.
That really move the needle andhelp you save taxes.
The nice thing is you get agood plan, you get a good
(28:35):
structure, you can get focusedon that, what works for you, and
then it gets a little moreroutine.
You still want to learn anddevelop new strategies.
Listen to the podcast.
We're, of course, updating youon new things we learn and
changes in the law, but itreally moves the needle and it
can be very meaningful to you asyou're trying to go out there
and grow and build well, Well, Ilove the way you said that and
(28:57):
we'll wrap it up on that.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
You just gave it the right term.
I love the way you said thatand we'll wrap it up on that.
You just gave it the right termgamify, Gamify this process,
and if you're a gamer, you knowthere's not one strategy that's
going to help you win anyparticular game and be on the
leaderboard.
It's a combination of things,and so if you can gamify this
tax planning, it might give youa little extra mojo to get
(29:19):
through the process, and Ichallenge all of you to do a
strategy session before year endas soon as possible, frankly,
but we're here for you.
We're excited to be a part ofyour life.
Thank you for listening to thispodcast.
Please share it with someone.
Give us a five star, two thumbsup, high five, 10 out of 10,
whatever the hell.
We appreciate it, and we willbe back here next week on the
(29:40):
Main Street Business Podcasttrying to talk about things that
actually move the needle, as mypartner just said, and make a
difference in all of our effortsto better live the American
dream.
Thanks so much for listeningand or watching on YouTube.
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Thank you.
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