October 1, 2025 • 40 mins
Mat sat down with Donald Miller to break down how the StoryBrand framework and airplane model can transform small business growth. In this episode of the Main Street Business Podcast, we dive into marketing, sales, and clarity in messaging so entrepreneurs can scale with confidence.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Every human being wakes up identifying as a hero
in a story.
A hero is character that wantssomething and overcomes conflict
to get it.
So as it relates to yourbusiness, my question to you is
what's the conflict that yourcustomer is trying to overcome?
They are the hero in the story.
You never want to positionyourself as the hero in the
story.
The reason is that's a weakcharacter.
That's your customer.
(00:21):
Your customer is a weakcharacter.
Every customer out there has aproblem and they're looking for
somebody to help them.
And so what you need to do isposition yourself as the guide
helping the hero win.
And all of a sudden, peoplestart paying attention to you.
I always say if you want to growyour business, talk 75% about
the pain your customer is in and25% about your product.
Your sales will go up.
SPEAKER_03 (00:39):
Welcome everyone to the Main Street Business
Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, and I'mhonored to be joined in studio
by Donald Miller, best-sellingauthor, teaches people how to
consult and grow businesses, andhas worked with probably
thousands of business owners ingrowing small businesses.
So it's a pleasure to have youin the studio here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
Yeah.
Well, we've got an audience ofMain Street business owners.
This is the Main Street BusinessPodcast, after all.
A lot of small business owners,some big business owners, some
people with a side hustle, somepeople trying to launch a
business.
And I know you've got a lot ofbooks out there, but I wanted to
start with your flight plan onhow to grow a small business.
I've listened to some of yourpodcasts already, and I've
ordered your books.
I should have had them herebefore you got here, but I but
(01:19):
I've been listening to a lot ofyour stuff, and I was really
captivated by how you talk aboutan aircraft and how people
should be thinking about theirsmall business.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
Yeah.
I'm an accidental business guy.
I mean, I started out as amemoirist and had a really
successful career there, andthen wrote a a business book
about messaging and suddenly hada staff of 35 people and a
thousand certified coaches andall this kind of stuff.
So I found myself moving veryquickly from sitting around in
my underwear writing books toactually having to put on pants
(01:48):
and go into an office, which isjust very foreign to me.
And I don't tend to do well ifthings get complicated or
confusing.
And so one of the things thatthat I wouldn't like to buy
that's complicated Well, yeah,it's that that's the case too.
But also I need very simpleframeworks and processes in
order to run my operation.
(02:08):
And so created those in order togrow my business, and they
worked very, very well.
And then I would share them withfriends.
And basically, the realizationthat I had when I was trying to
figure out without a businessdegree, trying to figure out how
to run a small business and growit, is that a business works
like an airplane.
As long as I kept that airplanemodel in my mind as I was making
(02:28):
decisions, I made much, muchbetter decisions.
And my business doubled yearafter year for quite a long
time.
And I actually do credit withcredit that growth.
I don't credit the growth withthe airplane model, though some
of it, I credit not crashingwith the airplane model.
And here's what it is thecockpit is where the leadership
sits.
It's the vision casting, it'swhere this thing is going.
(02:50):
And so you have to reverseengineer where is this plane
going?
How much fuel do we need?
Who do we need on board?
And you do that with missionstatement guiding principles.
A lot of people already knowthat.
Those are actually reallyimportant.
Uh, your mission statement.
I I have a formula for a missionstatement that I think is much
better than most missionstatements.
Most mission statements are notmemorable, hard to actualize,
(03:12):
written by sound like they werewritten by lawyers.
Mine is just we will accomplishX uh by Y, because of Z.
So we will have in my particularbusiness a thousand story brand
certified guides, right?
By 2027, January 1 of 2027,because a lot of people need
(03:34):
help creating good marketing.
That's my mission statement.
Yeah it's we will accomplish Xby Y because of Z, because I
think you need to define theobjective, you need to put a
deadline to it, and then youneed to have a reason that this
is an altruistic motive in orderto motivate a team.
And so that that's my missionstatement.
That's the the cockpit.
The wings of the airplanerepresent your products.
(03:55):
They give the company lift.
You have to have something tosell in order to get the numbers
up.
SPEAKER_04 (04:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
So you have to have products that are highly
profitable and in demand, andthat creates lift.
And then the jet engines of theairplane are your marketing.
And your right engine is yourmarketing, your left engine is
your sales.
If you don't have sales, youhave a single engine aircraft.
But those things have to bereally sharp, and you increase
the thrust of those engines byclarifying your message.
(04:22):
The body of the airplane, thefuselage is where the people
sit.
Uh, that's your overhead.
And you want to keep that lightas light as you possibly can.
So you never want a bunch ofpeople in that thing if you
don't need them.
And then the fuel tank is thecash flow.
And those are the those are theseven parts or the six parts of
an airplane that you've got tomanage if you're managing a
business.
(04:43):
So what would happen is somebodywould come to me and they would
say, Don, you know, we want to,you know, we want to put some
new furniture in the office.
And it's a hundred grand.
And the way I looked at that wasyou're you're putting a lot of
weight into the fuselage of theairplane.
And so I would say no.
And they would say, Hey, we wantto spend a hundred grand on
advertising.
And I would say, okay, thatsounds good because it's making
my ride engine sharper, youknow, or more, more thrust.
(05:05):
So they'd come in and say, wait,why is it it's just a hundred
grand furniture of this?
Right.
Well, let me explain to you howan airplane works.
And as long as I kept that in mymind, we kept from crashing the
plane.
SPEAKER_04 (05:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
And you know, so you're constantly making those
decisions.
Or if sales are sputtering, youknow, the fuselage is too big,
our overhead's too big, ourmarketing isn't efficient
enough, our sales isn'tefficient enough.
Uh and if we're running out ofgas, we're done.
SPEAKER_03 (05:30):
Yeah.
And I think I think the firstthing I when I think about this
uh metaphor, which is excellent,I think, is like what's the type
of plane you're trying to buildtoo?
I just think of my ownexperience in building our own
businesses, is like I've foundthere's like an optimal speed
that you hit in your business,right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Of growth.
SPEAKER_03 (05:49):
Yes.
And we scaled some businessesvery quickly.
And in some ways, you have toomuch fuel.
Like the the marketing and salesis cr is phenomenal.
And you're gonna crash out.
Like you really are.
Like that that body of the planecannot handle it.
Your team, your culture, yourdelivery of your product or your
service is threatened if youscrew that up.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
And well, not only that, you you end up taking off
in a Cessna, yeah, and two hourslater you're in a Boeing 737,
and the team that ran the Cessnadoesn't know how to run this
airplane.
SPEAKER_03 (06:23):
Very true.
SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
And you know, there are people who are just really,
really good at flying a Cessna,they're amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (06:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
And you find yourself firing them or letting
them go or trying to figure outhow to transition them out
because this this plane has justgotten too big for them.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Yeah.
And that's what I've, you know,you heard the saying, you know,
the people that got you worriedabout the same people that get
you worked out.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
Not only that, but you as the owner have to change.
Yeah.
You have to figure out a wholenew set of skills.
SPEAKER_03 (06:44):
We'll have to evolve.
And that goes so when you thinkabout um the cockpit and
leadership, I also I think oflike the person flying the
plane, you know, and it'sdriving that business every day
where it's supposed to go.
You also got like, how do Iconstruct these different
pieces?
And maybe even like focusing inon how do I know what's out of
whack?
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Anytime a business is going down, that is your you
know, your leads are drying up,your revenues, you know, you you
had a negative month and you'removing money out of your safety
account back in to fund it.
What's wrong is usually yourwings aren't big enough or light
enough.
Yeah, your right and left enginearen't producing enough power,
(07:25):
and the body of your plane hastoo much weight in it.
So you gotta throw people out ofthe body of the plane, which I
don't recommend.
SPEAKER_04 (07:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
What I recommend is you actually analyze your
products and say, is there a wayI can make these products more
profitable?
Can I batch things together tocreate a new product?
Can I take three or four thingsand you know, if I'm running a
little pet store and I'm sellingkennels and puppy food and this,
can I actually put together anew puppy kit and batch it
together and sell a lot more ofthose?
(07:54):
Well, what you did is you justtook the wings of the airplane,
you made them bigger andlighter.
SPEAKER_04 (07:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
And then you go over there in your marketing engine
and you promote that in the youknow, in the paper or whatever,
you know, on online, howeveryou're gonna promote that.
Or you have somebody in the bodyof the airplane who's at the
cash register, and you make arule.
Anytime somebody buys kibble,they have to say, Did you see
our new puppy kit over here?
Is there anything over here thatwell that's gonna increase
(08:19):
sales?
So you have to think like thatin order to to fix the but it's
always it's always the airplaneis not built right.
And then that what that does isit tells you what to fix.
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
So as you've looked at, you've looked at and
consulted hundreds, thousands ofbusinesses, I presume.
Yeah, probably thousands at thispoint.
Thousands.
I think marketing and sales issomething that solves all
problems, right?
Like I knew you gotta likeexecute on it, but you know, if
you get the marketing and salesright, you know, that can mask a
lot of problems in the business.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Mask is a good word.
SPEAKER_03 (08:49):
Yeah, right.
It's not solving it.
I should say that's probably notthe best word.
It's masking it.
Where do you spend most of yourtime when you get into a
business owner and they're consyou're consulting with them?
Where do you spend most of yourtime that's gonna move the
needle?
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
If they've come to me and they're really hurting,
we talk about their message,which I would I would put in
that marketing engine.
I basically say, what problem doyou solve?
And if they can't answer thatquestion, we have an amazing
opportunity.
SPEAKER_04 (09:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Uh we have an amazing opportunity.
I've seen companies answer thatquestion, come up with with a
sound bite to answer thatquestion and double their
business.
Yeah.
Uh by just talking about whatthey sell differently.
And so I think there are thereare what I would do is I would
start with five sound bites.
They they the the acronym spellsout the word peace.
SPEAKER_04 (09:34):
Okay.
So taking notes, guys.
SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
Yeah.
So the first is the problem.
Okay.
What's the problem that yousolve?
That's the most importantsoundbite that you every small
business owner needs an answerto that.
Okay.
And that's the number one thingthat you want to talk about from
here on out.
SPEAKER_04 (09:49):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And there's a lot of reasons for that.
Uh mainly because problems areinteresting and you're trying to
get attention.
SPEAKER_04 (09:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
They also qualify customers.
Yeah.
The next one is the empathysoundbite.
Here's why I care about the factthat you have this problem.
Yeah.
The next one is the answer, andthat's where you put the
product.
I have a product that's going tosolve this problem for you.
The next one is the C, P-E-A-C.
So C is change.
When you use my product, yourproblem will go away.
(10:18):
Life changes for you.
And then finally, the endresult.
What does life look like after Ibuy your product?
Let me give you an example.
A company came to me recently uhcalled You Need a Budget.
Wineab is the name of thecompany.
This is a$50 million app in theApple store.
They're making$50 million a yearselling this app.
(10:39):
They have a cult-like following.
People love this app.
They use it to manage theirmoney, they use it to manage
their lifestyle.
They came to me and they didn'tlike the word budget because
it's really not aboutrestrictive stuff.
You know, it's about spendingand you know, a bunch of re
rules on, but they're alreadydoing really well.
So let me let me give you thethe the peace sound bites.
(11:00):
P was have you ever worriedabout money?
So everybody listening to me asit relates to your business
needs a have you ever worriedabout?
unknown (11:09):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Have you ever worried about?
Then they said, We know how itfeels to worry about money.
So that's it's very simple.
That's your empatheticsoundbite.
The answer is also very simple.
Download the YNAB app.
So P E A, download the YNAB appis the answer.
C is we'll we'll help you getgood with money.
So that's how we we're changingyou, we're transforming you.
(11:30):
We're gonna help you get goodwith money.
The end result is so you neverhave to worry about money again.
Now let's say I'm at a cocktailparty.
Todd Curtis is the CEO.
Todd, let's say Todd's at acocktail party and somebody
says, Todd, what do you do?
If he says I'm the CEO ofWineab, it's an app that helps
you figure out how to spendmoney well and uh not not let it
drive you crazy, you're gonnaget some casual conversation.
(11:53):
But if if you say, Todd, what doyou do?
and he says, Well, have you oranybody you ever known worried
about money?
Yeah, all of a sudden that's amore interesting conversation.
Right, totally, absolutely.
I'm wondering where this isgoing.
And then he says, I really feelfor you.
I have 65 employees who feelyour pain, feel your uncle's
pain.
Everybody worries about money,and we really care about them.
(12:13):
What we want them to do isdownload the Wineab app off of
the App Store.
It's gonna teach you to managemoney, and we're gonna help you
get really good with money.
That's what that app is gonna doso that you never have to worry
about money again.
Yeah.
That is a much more interestingway to describe your business.
We value Matt, we value productsthat solve problems.
What most business owners do isthey talk about their product
(12:36):
thinking that the person willfigure out what problem it
solves, and nobody ever figuresit out.
So if you actually lead with theproblem, then express empathy,
which basically creates a bondbetween you and the person that
you're talking to, and thenposition your product as the
solution to that problem, theperceived value of that product
goes way up, and people are muchmore likely to buy it.
(12:57):
Then you talk about the changethat you personally are going to
experience if I use my product,if you use my product.
That says there's there's notjust a product, you're going to
transform me.
And then the end result is thehappily ever after ending that
you're going to have if you usemy product.
So essentially, every story isabout a hero who's at peace.
(13:18):
Then they fall into a hole.
Then a guide comes to the edgeof the hole, empathizes with
them, throws a rope down, pullsthem out of the hole to return
them to peace.
Yeah.
And that's exactly what you'redoing with your business.
You're saying, here's the holeyou're in, use this rope, which
is my product, so I can pull youout of this and you can get back
to normal.
SPEAKER_03 (13:36):
Yeah.
Now this is coming, is this thisis stuff out of Story Brand 2.0.
This is your latest book that'sout.
Where you is this where Piecescomes out in?
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah, it's actually there's actually more than that
in there, but that's in there,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
Okay.
So, because I know you talk alsoabout, you know, the hero is the
customer in the story and theguide here is the business.
Right.
I also thought it wasinteresting too.
I was reading some of your workabout that somehow like this
problem that you're trying tosolve and your message, or I
guess your answer and whatyou're trying to change is also
like expressing some injusticein the situation of what you're
(14:09):
trying to solve.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
Because I'm actually going to beable to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:12):
Yeah, you're getting into the additional information.
You're, you know, the advanced.
Every business listening to meneeds those five sound bites.
Yeah.
Philosophically, here's why youneed them.
Because every human being wakesup identifying as a hero in a
story.
A hero is a character that wantssomething and overcomes conflict
to get it.
So as it relates to yourbusiness, my question to you is
(14:33):
what's the conflict that yourcustomers trying to overcome?
They need a new roof, they needa plumber, they need, you know,
they're they don't want to dotheir landscaping anymore.
What's the problem they'retrying to overcome?
They are the hero in the story.
The hero is ill-equipped, afraidto take action, in desperate
need of help.
You never want to positionyourself as the hero in the
story if you run a brand.
(14:54):
The reason is that's a weakcharacter.
That's your customer.
Your customer is a weakcharacter.
The guide, which is in almostevery movie you ever see, Mr.
Miyagi, Young.
Obi-Kenobi.
Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Mary Poppins is the guide.
The guide is a much, muchstronger character who helps the
hero win.
So every hero, every customerout there has a problem and
they're looking for somebody tohelp them.
(15:15):
And when you come along and youplay the hero, I own a locksmith
company and I'm trying to growit.
I inherited it from my fatherand I want to pass it along to
my son.
I I I'm not hearing anythingthat is helping me out of a hole
here.
And so what you need to do isposition yourself as the guide
helping the hero win.
SPEAKER_04 (15:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
And all of a sudden, people start paying attention to
you.
The the way you do that is youempathize with the customer's
pain.
You talk about their painconstantly.
I always say if you want to growyour business, talk 75% about
the pain your customer is in and25% about your product.
SPEAKER_03 (15:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
And you'll you'll your sales will go up.
SPEAKER_03 (15:52):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I know like Nike had a wholetheme for a while about um
honoring athletes, basically,and on honoring like it wasn't
about their product.
You know, it wasn't about likeour shoes do this.
It was more like honoringathletes, which I thought was
like an interesting way to lookat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Yeah, so what they're doing is they're they
have defined an aspirationalidentity for their customer.
When I talk about change andthat the transformation that a
hero goes through, think aboutYNAB.
Their last sound sound bite isyou'll never worry about our
money again.
Yeah.
And also, we will help you getgood with money.
That's an aspirational identity.
(16:30):
So what Nike is doing is saying,you know, look at these athletes
and how great they are and howamazing they are.
Yeah.
And associating that with theirNike swoosh and all of their
products, because you would liketo also be a great athlete,
wouldn't you?
SPEAKER_04 (16:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
And so I'm going to go buy these products to feel
like the aspirational identitythat Nike is presenting.
When you have that many productsand your company is that big,
it's very hard to do actualsales.
And so selling an aspirationalidentity is a move that
multi-billion dollar brands cando.
(17:07):
I would say if you have a smallbusiness, it's not your best
play.
SPEAKER_04 (17:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
In other words, you know, Coke probably spends five
billion dollars a year,Coca-Cola or more.
I don't know their marketingbudget.
And all their marketing is isreally, you know, can it's just
sort of like a feel-goodmarketing.
SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
If a small business tries to do that, they'll go
bankrupt.
SPEAKER_04 (17:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:27):
The reason is we all know what Coca-Cola is.
I don't know what you do.
SPEAKER_04 (17:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
So Coca-Cola doesn't have to explain what it does, it
doesn't have to explain theproblem that it solves.
It doesn't have to do any ofthat because it's a household
name.
And a lot of times you'll takeyour hard-earned money as a
small business owner to amarketing firm, a small
marketing firm, and they'll useCoca-Cola's playbook.
Yeah.
And they'll put you inbankruptcy doing it.
SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
And they'll still take your money.
What they need to do is actuallyjust explain what problem you
solve, put it on a billboard,put it on meta ads, and start
making money.
SPEAKER_03 (17:58):
So this peace method is very specific for small
business owners.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
I mean, even a big if you're running for president,
that's the script.
So it's not just I my one of myclients is national security.
This is the script we use.
SPEAKER_03 (18:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
On China policy.
So it's it's not just smallbusinesses.
Big businesses need to do thistoo.
SPEAKER_03 (18:17):
Yeah.
I love it.
And I do think, you know, I tellour team a lot of times, I'm
like, the the problem ourcustomers face is like our
opportunity, actually.
Like that's why we exist as abusiness to begin with.
And so we are able to solvetheir problem.
This is more in the execution ofour services as we kind of talk
about it as a team.
But I'm taking notes here on howto articulate this from a
(18:38):
marketing message.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
Well, I mean, you could say something like with a
self-directed IRA.
You could say, you could saysomething like, have you ever
wanted to invest creatively, butyou can't because your money's
tied up in an IRA?
You know if you if you want amore control.
I I I'm I'm tempted to say, doyou want more control over your
(18:59):
retirement investments?
But I think that's a little bittoo elusive or vague.
It doesn't trigger that desire.
Yeah.
So if you actually say a lot ofpeople invest in real estate or
crypto or these sorts of things,they want to do these things,
but they don't have the money.
unknown (19:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
Well, actually, if you put your retirement into an
IRA account, you can you caninvest creatively.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
You know, I you know something like that would be how
I would open the conversation.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think we kind of talkabout how we let you invest in
assets you know and believe in.
And see, but you gotta likeidentify what they're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Well, you help us control.
I have no control over what I'minvesting in.
If I gotta fund a SEP IRA,right?
Yeah.
Um, but if I put that money intoa self-directed IRA, I have a
lot of creativity and controlover what I do with my
retirement investing.
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
And maybe maybe that's an angle.
You want to test these.
SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
And I think the empathy angle is you've wanted
to do this.
Haven't you ever wanted toinvest in this and have more
control and freedom andflexibility to invest in what
you know and believe in?
Yeah.
Rather than what's on the menu.
Yeah.
I mean, that's not bad.
Fidelity.
Yeah.
Well, open up a self-directed I,right, directed I'm going to do
it.
We're going to change your life.
(20:10):
And you're going to live happilyever after having a retirement
you're looking forward to.
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Well, there it's see, it's easy.
It's easy.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
There you go.
I mean, uh, you know, I'm a goodstudent.
Well, tell me about you got someAI stuff that you're doing too.
And I've been like really I'vepoo-pooed AI on our in our team
in many ways, I have to say.
Yeah.
I'll get copy or I'll get stuff,and I'm like, did AI write this?
And they're like, yes.
I'm like, because it's kind ofthere and it sounds really good,
but it's wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah.
You know?
The problem with AI, if I if Igo to Chat GPT as a writer, as
somebody who's written, I don'tknow, 15 books now, it takes me,
I I do work with AI to write.
SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
It's slower because the prompts that I'm putting in
are so long.
They're almost longer than theanswer it's giving me.
And the problem that the reasonthat bad writing is coming out
of AI is because the promptsyou're using.
Yeah.
You're not giving it, yeah.
You're not telling it what notto say.
So what I did was createdstorybrand.ai and gave it 110
single-spaced uh pages of noteson.
(21:15):
So for instance, storybrand.aiwill never let you play the hero
in the story.
It will always position you asthe guide.
SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Uh it will not make that mistake.
And everybody makes thatmistake.
Story brand will not be vague,it will not be elusive, it will
not be probably my favorite.
It will not let you use insidelanguage, it will not do any of
that.
And so the the results are muchbetter.
I would still say considereverything that comes out as
rough draft, you know, and testit.
(21:42):
But what I wanted to do is takeand improve from a writer's
perspective, and I've writtenmany books, uh, what AI was
going to spit out.
And so storybrand.ai came out ofthat.
SPEAKER_03 (21:53):
Okay.
So I want to get where we aretoday because I want to get
those three things out on thetable.
How to grow your small business.
Yeah.
I want to talk about what you'redoing with Storybrand 2.0.
We got in AI, because that's allcutting edge.
People do want to hear about AI.
And I'm trying to figure thatout.
Everybody's trying to figurethat out, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (22:07):
But I want to just talk about like some of the
lessons you've learned withworking with small business
owners.
SPEAKER_04 (22:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
Then maybe some examples or two where you've
seen transformational change.
And because I we run acrossbusiness owners, you know, you
know, as a as a business and taxlawyer, I'd get them on the
phone and they're making so muchmoney, they're just like want
every tax strategy out there.
Yeah.
And I'm like, wow, they're sosuccessful.
And then we got other onesfighting issues, problems here
and there, and they're likehanging on for dear life.
(22:34):
And like, I'm just gonna go backto my job.
Entrepreneurship and smallbusiness is really hard.
Yeah.
Right.
And um, so there can be a lot ofsuccess and a lot of failure, I
think, in entrepreneurism,running a small business.
What have you seen that'sconsistent or would be
instructional for most smallbusiness owners listening right
now to make meaningful impact intheir business?
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
I I the number one thing, and I've got two, but the
number one thing is that youneed to worry about and figure
out is what problem am I gonnaown?
That's it.
Uh you have got to own aproblem.
And when people think of a leakyroof or a dog that barks every
time somebody knocks on thedoor, they've got to think about
you if that's the problem yousolve.
(23:16):
Yeah.
And so you need to work on yoursound bite that says, if you're
struggling with X, call me.
Well, what's X?
Most people are vague or theylist too many things and it goes
in one ear, out the other.
If you can actually nail thatproblem, that's the biggest
challenge to growing yourbusiness, is people can't figure
(23:37):
out why they should buy fromyou.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
Now the the only reason anybody pulls out their
wallet and buys anything is tosolve a problem.
And so if you own a problem,then everybody who has that
problem is going to give youmoney.
But if you are vague and elusivein how you talk about it, you're
not gonna own the problem.
The money is in the problem.
So that's the number one thing.
SPEAKER_03 (23:57):
What's a good example?
Do you have you have do you havean example of someone you've
worked with or even your ownbusiness expertise where you had
to like refocus that and it waslike transformational change?
Like it's not sometimes like,you know, we think of the
aircraft, it's not so much likethat the the wings or the
products are wrong, whether it'sthe locksmith or the plumber or
whatever it is.
Like they have the expertise tosolve the problem.
(24:17):
They're just messaging it wrong.
SPEAKER_04 (24:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Who's up in the cockpit is like going around
like you know, they can't hitthe right the right path
forward, whatever it is, youknow, to like drive that plane
efficiently to make itprofitable.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Let me give you a non-small business example, just
because it's a fun example.
National security.
So the national security, theNSA is a massive organization.
It's classified how manyemployees.
I don't have a securityclearance there, but I've worked
with them quite a bit.
They have so many challenges.
Eight or so divisions,cybersecurity, Signet, you know,
(24:53):
they work with the Pentagon,they work with foreign security
analysis and organizations.
They have to do uh congressionalauthorization to fund the NSA
every single year.
So they're going to Congressevery year and asking them to
re-up the budget, which meansSenate hearing after Senate
hearing after confirmationhearing.
(25:13):
So what they didn't have thoughwas a controlling idea because
it's a it's actually arelatively new organization.
Massive, the budget is is notdisclosed.
And they have all sorts ofproblems.
I mean, people think they spy onAmerican citizens, they don't.
Yeah.
You know, like Hollywood isreally misrepresenting them in a
terrible way.
(25:33):
And so as as we worked withthem, we thought, well, you
know, they had kind of atagline, which was protect our
freedom, defend the future.
But that that's that's anexample of vague.
SPEAKER_04 (25:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
So when you go m member to meet a member of
Congress and they have somepower to affect this
authorization, and you say,Well, defend our freedom, you
know, they're going, what areyou, the Marines?
What are you the Pentagon?
What are you making us ahelicopter?
What are you doing?
So we needed something morespecific than that.
And the interim directoractually came up with
intelligence means victory.
(26:07):
Three words.
So now you go to Congress andyou say, Well, as you know,
intelligence means victory andwe need billions of dollars.
What are they saying yes or noto?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:16):
Victory.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Right?
And it's also in nowintelligence is just what they
collect, uh, but they alsoprotect our intelligence.
That has some weight to it nowbecause it means we get defeated
if we don't have it.
That's the sort of sound bitethat you're looking for.
Something that immediately says,okay, let's talk about that.
(26:38):
That seems really, reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_03 (26:39):
Whoever's buying, whether that's a customer or a
member of Congress, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Yeah, because really what is Congress saying is like
we're we're running a pretty baddeficit, yeah, and you're asking
for what?
And so what they're actuallysaying is, why are you
important?
Why should I fund you?
Well, defend our future, protectthe freedom, it's not gonna
motivate a pen on a check.
What's gonna motivate that isintelligence means victory.
And so, you know, you're lookingfor that sound bite that
(27:04):
explains why your product is sourgent, what problem it solves,
and it needs to resonate withyour customer in seconds, really
in milliseconds.
As soon as you say it, somebodyneeds to say, I need that, or my
uncle needs that.
SPEAKER_04 (27:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
Or tell me more.
SPEAKER_04 (27:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:22):
You know, because I I might want to buy this.
Let me give you an example.
Let's say you're at a cocktailparty and you meet two people
who do the same thing, sameproduct, same price, same
quality.
Meet the first one, you say,What do you do?
They say, Well, I'm an at-homechef.
You know, I come to your houseand I cook.
You're gonna have questionsabout where they went to
culinary school, you're gonnahave questions about who they've
cooked for.
You ever cooked for anybodyfamous?
You know, things like that.
(27:42):
Next person, an hour later, sameproduct, same price, same value,
everything.
What do you do?
Well, you know how most familiesdon't eat together anymore
because they don't have time.
I'm an at-home chef.
I come to your house and cook.
Completely differentconversation.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
Yeah, way better positioned.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
But it's the same product.
But but chef number two is gonnado all the business.
Yeah.
Because they've positioned theirproduct as the solution to a
problem.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:04):
I love that example because it gets it what it gets
at the problem you might notthink you're solving.
Like Yeah, what's the that's awhat's the real problem?
What's the real problem?
You're not solving food.
No.
You're solving I want to eat athome with my family and I don't
have time.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:20):
And that's way more compelling.
Like I'd buy that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:24):
We do, I buy that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:27):
We have someone that comes to our house that cooks
for us because we have thatproblem.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:30):
And you want to eat at home.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
You want to eat healthy and you want to eat
together and you don't have timeto cook.
SPEAKER_03 (28:34):
And I don't buy it because I need food.
I buy it because I want to be athome.
SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
That's exactly it and pay a premium for it.
I get my haircut on my frontporch.
Yeah.
So I don't have time.
Yeah.
You know, so it it let's say,and I probably charge I probably
pay twice as much for a haircut.
Yeah.
But that that barber, you know,she Robin, she might introduce
herself by saying, you know,really busy people that don't
have time to get a haircut.
(28:58):
But in this age, day and age,you gotta look good.
I come to your house.
I come to your house and I cook.
And I cook your house and I cutyour hair.
SPEAKER_04 (29:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
That's how she should position herself.
SPEAKER_04 (29:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
And she can charge twice as much for doing that.
SPEAKER_03 (29:08):
Can I tell you one of the best sells I just
remember this moment?
I was I had a BMW at the time.
Love that car.
It was this BMW six series.
I took it in to get fixed.
It had a had a tire blown out onit.
The guy, this is the guy like,you know, just selling me tires,
right?
And he comes back and he's like,All right, well, I have that
tire, but it's like$1,200.
I'm like, for one tire?
(29:30):
And he's like, yeah.
He's like, but I'll put it on in45 minutes.
He's like, and he and I waslike, done.
He sold me on time because Ithought when he phrased it that
way, I thought, I'm gonna haveto go somewhere else.
Go to Costco or discount tie,wherever you go.
Yeah.
(29:50):
And he knew I was in a hustlebecause I was in there, like,
all right, how much longer willthis?
What's the time?
When can I get in?
Like, so he kind of had a thisis just a you know a one on one
thing, but I'm just thinking.
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
That was really, really intelligent of him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:04):
I was like, done.
He's like, cool, you'll be donein 30, 40, 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
But I mean, yeah, I mean, I you know, I probably
would have made the samedecision.
That's so interesting.
Because he reframed it that asnot being about money, but being
about time.
He didn't think that's the same.
SPEAKER_03 (30:16):
The thing is, if you don't buy that tire, this
matches your other tires.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
He was like And also you you quickly realized if I
don't buy this tire, it's gonnacost me hours to figure out how
to solve this problem.
That was probably a$600 tire.
SPEAKER_02 (30:30):
Yeah, exactly.
I knew I looked in the 30minutes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
He charged you$600 for the 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
I was Googling what that tire really was for.
It was not$1,200.
And he knew that.
Yeah.
He told me that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:41):
He's like, go get somewhere else.
But but I do think some of thoseattributes to your services,
that could be the plumber or thelocksmith.
A lot of people who do might DYDIY the service that you that
you sell, right?
You're a lot of times you'regiving them back time, which you
can tie to their family or thethings that they otherwise may
want to do or love.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
Or is there a big you know, one thing to ask
ourselves is our product solvesproblem X.
Is there a more valuable problemthat it also solves?
Our problem solves a hungryfamily.
But a family that can't connectbecause they they can't sit
together at dinner anymore is abigger problem.
Well, let's switch to that.
SPEAKER_04 (31:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Let's talk about that now.
SPEAKER_04 (31:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
And let's see if that gets a better result.
You're you're always looking tosort of say, is there a bigger
problem that I can solve here?
I have a friend who wrote a bookabout the Enneagram, you know,
personality theory type thing.
I got an email from him and itsaid he's doing a spiritual
retreat for 50 bucks on theEnneagram.
So I texted him back and I said,I'll pay 50 bucks to learn what
(31:43):
you know about the Enneagram tohelp me spiritually.
But I'll pay 10,000 if you canhelp my team connect with each
other and understand each other.
He called me and said, What areyou talking about?
I said, It's the same thing.
Yeah, just sell it, package itin a different way and solve a
bigger problem.
Now that's all he does.
And he has two houses doing it.
Because he took the same productinstead of selling it for 50
(32:05):
bucks, he sold it for 10,000bucks because it's like a
cordless drill.
I can either come and hang apicture or I can use it to build
a house.
Yeah.
But it's just it's the samedrill.
So you got to figure out whatproblem am I solving here.
SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
Yeah, and I think you know, you've got a whether
it's marketing or sales andhowever your messaging, your
story, what whatever this is,like we have a certain amount of
attention from people and thiswindow of buying opportunity,
whether it's an email that yougot or you know, it's a
one-on-one conversation, it's awhatever it is.
It's an ad, it's a website.
(32:41):
I mean, people have limitedattention span, and we do think
they will connect the dots.
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
No, they won't.
SPEAKER_03 (32:47):
Yeah.
Like you gotta lay it up forthem.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
You do.
You you can't, you know, we havea notch around our office and
it's don't make people think.
unknown (32:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:55):
You know, do not make people think.
Spell it out so clearly.
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
Don't bury the lead.
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
Which by the way, the reason that people are are
not clear is because it'sextremely hard.
It's very, very easy to saythings that are vague and
confusing.
It is extremely hard to saythings clearly.
But when you say things clearly,nobody has to think to figure
out why they should give youmoney.
So it's worth sitting andthinking about the sound bite
(33:21):
that I'm going to use.
And one of the reasons I lovesound bites is you write it once
and you repeat it a milliontimes.
Yeah.
And you memorize it and you justsay it.
It's just a line.
SPEAKER_03 (33:29):
Part of your team culture, too.
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_03 (33:32):
It's very digestible.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Yeah.
15 minutes can save you 15% oncar insurance or whatever it is.
Like that's your line.
Yeah.
And you just repeat it over andover and you make a billion
dollars.
SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
Okay.
So I started this dialogue hereof one major thing, and you
talked about sound bites,getting clear on the problem
that you're solving.
Like, what problem do I own?
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
Yes, own a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (33:54):
How about that?
Own a problem.
SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
And and let me just say this real quick.
Many small business owners willsay, Well, all my competitors
solve the same problem.
Let me just tell you if you'resaying it clearly in the mind of
the public, you're the only onesolving that problem.
Yeah.
You're the only one.
So clarity is your competitiveadvantage.
If so many good one-linerscience, well, you know, think
(34:16):
about like think about likePeter's Clarity is your How many
doctors out there are helpingyou with longevity?
Yeah.
A million?
How many can you name?
One.
SPEAKER_04 (34:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
Why?
Because he communicates theclearest.
Yeah.
Peter Atia.
And so you want to be thatperson in your industry.
You want to own it.
You're going to own it withclarity.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
Okay.
I think you said you had twothings.
You said one was what problem doI have to do?
SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
Yeah, the other one is a whole other, a whole other
world that we can dive into.
But maybe let's give him a tasteof the case.
Yeah, you need a master plan.
You know, I learned uh I readPete Carroll's book.
Oh, I think it was called WinWin Forever.
Yeah.
Okay.
I met him and got to know him,and we spent some time together.
Not much.
He probably wouldn't remember menow, but he did remember me for
(34:59):
a minute.
But he he's he's an inspirationfor me.
And he made it all the way tothe head coach of the Jets and
the head coach of the NewEngland Patriots and was fired.
He had 500 seasons, I think,with those teams.
He had a year off in SouthernCalifornia where he was from,
and he decided you know, thething I've never done as an NFL
coach or as a coach, period, isput together a master plan of
(35:21):
how I would run a team.
I've been winging it.
And so he he spent a yearputting together a giant binder
of how he would run practice,how he would run meetings, how
he would recruit players, allthis kind of stuff.
And he got organized.
He even had a page on how thereceptionist would answer the
phone.
So he became a micromanager of ateam.
USC called him and said, Can weinterview you for the head coach
(35:42):
job?
Now, what was true at the timewas USC already had their head
coach, but the board was sayingyou need to hire you need to
interview two other coaches inorder to we're not gonna let you
hire this guy.
Well, Pete lived in the area, sothey were like, Well, we don't
have to fly him in.
Yeah, let's get him in here for30 minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
So he comes in, he drops thisbinder on the desk, and they
(36:04):
start asking him questions.
Like eight hours later, he'sstill sitting there and they're
they're blown away by this guy.
And they actually say, Whatwould you say in the press
conference if we made you headcoach at USC?
And he said, Well, turn to page433 because I already wrote it.
And he did.
And they hired him on the spot.
SPEAKER_04 (36:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
And uh he they were and he took him to multiple
national championships.
Then he goes on to Seattle,takes him to two Super Bowls,
and wins one of them.
The difference between yourunning a good business and you
being a champion is that masterplan.
And I just saw a clip of NickSaban in a meeting at Alabama.
He had a binder.
I'm not making this up, man.
That binder was 20 inches thick.
(36:42):
I don't even know that.
I don't even know where they gotthat binder.
Like who makes that binder?
It's this thick.
And you say, well, how does hewin national championships?
He knows how you're supposed todrink from the water fountain.
SPEAKER_04 (36:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
And you better do it right.
SPEAKER_04 (36:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
And everybody knows their job.
There's no excuse.
He's not winging it.
And that's the point I'mpreaching to the choir because
that's the point I'm in with mycompany.
Like if we're gonna get to 100million, we need we need a
master plan on how everything inthis business operates.
Yeah.
And um, that's the journey I'mon next, is that master plan.
SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
Yeah, and I think if we go back to that the plane
analogy, you know, if you'rethat captain in the cockpit, you
know, flying that thing, youbetter know everything about
that business, how that plane'ssupposed to fly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:27):
I mean, that is like your well, and you do it with
you do it with checklists.
You do not you do not trust yourgut.
SPEAKER_03 (37:34):
Yes.
And that's why they do thatthing, right?
But the whole team know theirrole and what their
responsibility is.
What do we do if there's danger?
What if this warning goes off,right?
Like all these contingencies andthings you think of for flying a
plane.
This is a business.
I mean, that stuff iscomplicated and hard too.
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (37:51):
There are challenges.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
And people can get hurt.
SPEAKER_03 (37:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
People's livelihoods are at stake.
SPEAKER_03 (37:55):
Yeah, there's a lot at risk.
You know, your own, youremployees, your customers.
I mean, you've got to win on allthose different areas.
And I think it can be difficultto be at the helm of that.
And and having a plan, I mean,we we try to do this.
I'm just thinking of so manythings to do here for myself,
but I gotta get not caught up inthat.
I can totally um relate to thatpreparation and planning, the
(38:20):
initial thought in it.
But I will say one thing isbeing willing to change and
adapt to.
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:25):
And that there could be contingencies like in Pete
Carroll's binder.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
I'm sure every page changes.
Yeah, you know, what happened.
That's how your marketingdirector comes back and says,
Hey, I'd like to change how wedo a webinar.
Okay, well, let's talk about it.
And then rip that out and put itin.
SPEAKER_03 (38:38):
What do we do?
You know, there is no more Pac10 or 12, whatever it was.
So well, Donald, awesome to haveyou here.
SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
Matt, thank you.
I've I've I've really loved thisconversation.
SPEAKER_03 (38:46):
Yeah, it's been great.
I got you a tax tip too.
You got me a great tax tip.
Before we go here, self-rentalrule.
If you didn't make it here onthe podcast, so we clipped that
out.
But uh self-rental rule for anyof you business owners buying
real estate for your ownbusiness, which Donald's doing,
you can use a self-rental ruleto write off your real estate
losses against the businessincome.
All right, where should peoplego um to learn more about you or
anything you've got coming up?
SPEAKER_01 (39:07):
Storybrand.com.
Okay, storybrand.ai is where youcan go, and I'll write your
sound bites for you.
I love it.
And by the way, that's free.
There's a paid version, but youget it for seven days for free.
So uh let me write your soundbites.
SPEAKER_03 (39:21):
And I'll write your sound bites for you.
So you're always good with themessaging.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
You know, you don't just teach me.
Let me let me let me say itbetter.
Let me say it better.
You're saying it wrong and it'scosting you money.
Let me rewrite it for you.
Go to storybrand.ai.
SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
So you can make more business.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
That's exactly so you can make more money and
enjoy your life.
So you stop sounding like afool.
SPEAKER_03 (39:38):
See, we gotta get to the change and the end result
too.
I'll carry that through.
SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
I love that that's yeah, so that you can retire
with an IRA that you cancontrol.
Yeah, with a lot more money.
SPEAKER_03 (39:47):
You're actually looking forward to.
Not dreading.
Awesome to have you here.
Thanks so much.
Get over to Storybrand 2.0.
SPEAKER_01 (39:53):
Storybrand 2.0 is the book on Amazon.
SPEAKER_03 (39:56):
Okay, storybrand.com and then storybrand.ai.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:59):
All right.
And then you have an eventcoming up too.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, we do.
We have one in uh January.
It's a story brand your businesslive.
It's limited to a hundredpeople, but I'm in the room for
two days with you.
And I'm gonna really write yoursound bites.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell you when they'rewhen they're wrong.
Okay.
And we've got about 20 coacheswho are gonna be in the room
kind of hovering around and makesure you get it right.
(40:22):
So if you just want to nail itdown, you want to get your five
sound bites.
SPEAKER_03 (40:25):
Other business owners.
SPEAKER_01 (40:26):
Yeah, other business owners, other business owners.
We're gonna look at uh yourwebsite and show you how you can
do things differently.
And you can find out more aboutthat at storybrand.com.
Actually, I'm sorry,storybrandyourbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Yeah, is where that one is.
SPE (40:40):
Storybrandyourbusiness.com.
All right.
Well, thanks for being in today.
Um, thanks everyone for beinghere for the Main Street
Business Podcast.
We'll be back next week withanother amazing episode.
We'll see you then.
Every human being wakes up identifying as a hero
in a story.
A hero is character that wantssomething and overcomes conflict
to get it.
So as it relates to yourbusiness, my question to you is
what's the conflict that yourcustomer is trying to overcome?
They are the hero in the story.
You never want to positionyourself as the hero in the
story.
The reason is that's a weakcharacter.
That's your customer.
(00:21):
Your customer is a weakcharacter.
Every customer out there has aproblem and they're looking for
somebody to help them.
And so what you need to do isposition yourself as the guide
helping the hero win.
And all of a sudden, peoplestart paying attention to you.
I always say if you want to growyour business, talk 75% about
the pain your customer is in and25% about your product.
Your sales will go up.
SPEAKER_03 (00:39):
Welcome everyone to the Main Street Business
Podcast.
This is Matt Sorensen, and I'mhonored to be joined in studio
by Donald Miller, best-sellingauthor, teaches people how to
consult and grow businesses, andhas worked with probably
thousands of business owners ingrowing small businesses.
So it's a pleasure to have youin the studio here today.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
Yeah.
Well, we've got an audience ofMain Street business owners.
This is the Main Street BusinessPodcast, after all.
A lot of small business owners,some big business owners, some
people with a side hustle, somepeople trying to launch a
business.
And I know you've got a lot ofbooks out there, but I wanted to
start with your flight plan onhow to grow a small business.
I've listened to some of yourpodcasts already, and I've
ordered your books.
I should have had them herebefore you got here, but I but
(01:19):
I've been listening to a lot ofyour stuff, and I was really
captivated by how you talk aboutan aircraft and how people
should be thinking about theirsmall business.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
Yeah.
I'm an accidental business guy.
I mean, I started out as amemoirist and had a really
successful career there, andthen wrote a a business book
about messaging and suddenly hada staff of 35 people and a
thousand certified coaches andall this kind of stuff.
So I found myself moving veryquickly from sitting around in
my underwear writing books toactually having to put on pants
(01:48):
and go into an office, which isjust very foreign to me.
And I don't tend to do well ifthings get complicated or
confusing.
And so one of the things thatthat I wouldn't like to buy
that's complicated Well, yeah,it's that that's the case too.
But also I need very simpleframeworks and processes in
order to run my operation.
(02:08):
And so created those in order togrow my business, and they
worked very, very well.
And then I would share them withfriends.
And basically, the realizationthat I had when I was trying to
figure out without a businessdegree, trying to figure out how
to run a small business and growit, is that a business works
like an airplane.
As long as I kept that airplanemodel in my mind as I was making
(02:28):
decisions, I made much, muchbetter decisions.
And my business doubled yearafter year for quite a long
time.
And I actually do credit withcredit that growth.
I don't credit the growth withthe airplane model, though some
of it, I credit not crashingwith the airplane model.
And here's what it is thecockpit is where the leadership
sits.
It's the vision casting, it'swhere this thing is going.
(02:50):
And so you have to reverseengineer where is this plane
going?
How much fuel do we need?
Who do we need on board?
And you do that with missionstatement guiding principles.
A lot of people already knowthat.
Those are actually reallyimportant.
Uh, your mission statement.
I I have a formula for a missionstatement that I think is much
better than most missionstatements.
Most mission statements are notmemorable, hard to actualize,
(03:12):
written by sound like they werewritten by lawyers.
Mine is just we will accomplishX uh by Y, because of Z.
So we will have in my particularbusiness a thousand story brand
certified guides, right?
By 2027, January 1 of 2027,because a lot of people need
(03:34):
help creating good marketing.
That's my mission statement.
Yeah it's we will accomplish Xby Y because of Z, because I
think you need to define theobjective, you need to put a
deadline to it, and then youneed to have a reason that this
is an altruistic motive in orderto motivate a team.
And so that that's my missionstatement.
That's the the cockpit.
The wings of the airplanerepresent your products.
(03:55):
They give the company lift.
You have to have something tosell in order to get the numbers
up.
SPEAKER_04 (04:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
So you have to have products that are highly
profitable and in demand, andthat creates lift.
And then the jet engines of theairplane are your marketing.
And your right engine is yourmarketing, your left engine is
your sales.
If you don't have sales, youhave a single engine aircraft.
But those things have to bereally sharp, and you increase
the thrust of those engines byclarifying your message.
(04:22):
The body of the airplane, thefuselage is where the people
sit.
Uh, that's your overhead.
And you want to keep that lightas light as you possibly can.
So you never want a bunch ofpeople in that thing if you
don't need them.
And then the fuel tank is thecash flow.
And those are the those are theseven parts or the six parts of
an airplane that you've got tomanage if you're managing a
business.
(04:43):
So what would happen is somebodywould come to me and they would
say, Don, you know, we want to,you know, we want to put some
new furniture in the office.
And it's a hundred grand.
And the way I looked at that wasyou're you're putting a lot of
weight into the fuselage of theairplane.
And so I would say no.
And they would say, Hey, we wantto spend a hundred grand on
advertising.
And I would say, okay, thatsounds good because it's making
my ride engine sharper, youknow, or more, more thrust.
(05:05):
So they'd come in and say, wait,why is it it's just a hundred
grand furniture of this?
Right.
Well, let me explain to you howan airplane works.
And as long as I kept that in mymind, we kept from crashing the
plane.
SPEAKER_04 (05:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
And you know, so you're constantly making those
decisions.
Or if sales are sputtering, youknow, the fuselage is too big,
our overhead's too big, ourmarketing isn't efficient
enough, our sales isn'tefficient enough.
Uh and if we're running out ofgas, we're done.
SPEAKER_03 (05:30):
Yeah.
And I think I think the firstthing I when I think about this
uh metaphor, which is excellent,I think, is like what's the type
of plane you're trying to buildtoo?
I just think of my ownexperience in building our own
businesses, is like I've foundthere's like an optimal speed
that you hit in your business,right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Of growth.
SPEAKER_03 (05:49):
Yes.
And we scaled some businessesvery quickly.
And in some ways, you have toomuch fuel.
Like the the marketing and salesis cr is phenomenal.
And you're gonna crash out.
Like you really are.
Like that that body of the planecannot handle it.
Your team, your culture, yourdelivery of your product or your
service is threatened if youscrew that up.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
And well, not only that, you you end up taking off
in a Cessna, yeah, and two hourslater you're in a Boeing 737,
and the team that ran the Cessnadoesn't know how to run this
airplane.
SPEAKER_03 (06:23):
Very true.
SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
And you know, there are people who are just really,
really good at flying a Cessna,they're amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (06:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
And you find yourself firing them or letting
them go or trying to figure outhow to transition them out
because this this plane has justgotten too big for them.
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
Yeah.
And that's what I've, you know,you heard the saying, you know,
the people that got you worriedabout the same people that get
you worked out.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
Not only that, but you as the owner have to change.
Yeah.
You have to figure out a wholenew set of skills.
SPEAKER_03 (06:44):
We'll have to evolve.
And that goes so when you thinkabout um the cockpit and
leadership, I also I think oflike the person flying the
plane, you know, and it'sdriving that business every day
where it's supposed to go.
You also got like, how do Iconstruct these different
pieces?
And maybe even like focusing inon how do I know what's out of
whack?
SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Anytime a business is going down, that is your you
know, your leads are drying up,your revenues, you know, you you
had a negative month and you'removing money out of your safety
account back in to fund it.
What's wrong is usually yourwings aren't big enough or light
enough.
Yeah, your right and left enginearen't producing enough power,
(07:25):
and the body of your plane hastoo much weight in it.
So you gotta throw people out ofthe body of the plane, which I
don't recommend.
SPEAKER_04 (07:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:32):
What I recommend is you actually analyze your
products and say, is there a wayI can make these products more
profitable?
Can I batch things together tocreate a new product?
Can I take three or four thingsand you know, if I'm running a
little pet store and I'm sellingkennels and puppy food and this,
can I actually put together anew puppy kit and batch it
together and sell a lot more ofthose?
(07:54):
Well, what you did is you justtook the wings of the airplane,
you made them bigger andlighter.
SPEAKER_04 (07:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
And then you go over there in your marketing engine
and you promote that in the youknow, in the paper or whatever,
you know, on online, howeveryou're gonna promote that.
Or you have somebody in the bodyof the airplane who's at the
cash register, and you make arule.
Anytime somebody buys kibble,they have to say, Did you see
our new puppy kit over here?
Is there anything over here thatwell that's gonna increase
(08:19):
sales?
So you have to think like thatin order to to fix the but it's
always it's always the airplaneis not built right.
And then that what that does isit tells you what to fix.
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
So as you've looked at, you've looked at and
consulted hundreds, thousands ofbusinesses, I presume.
Yeah, probably thousands at thispoint.
Thousands.
I think marketing and sales issomething that solves all
problems, right?
Like I knew you gotta likeexecute on it, but you know, if
you get the marketing and salesright, you know, that can mask a
lot of problems in the business.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Mask is a good word.
SPEAKER_03 (08:49):
Yeah, right.
It's not solving it.
I should say that's probably notthe best word.
It's masking it.
Where do you spend most of yourtime when you get into a
business owner and they're consyou're consulting with them?
Where do you spend most of yourtime that's gonna move the
needle?
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
If they've come to me and they're really hurting,
we talk about their message,which I would I would put in
that marketing engine.
I basically say, what problem doyou solve?
And if they can't answer thatquestion, we have an amazing
opportunity.
SPEAKER_04 (09:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Uh we have an amazing opportunity.
I've seen companies answer thatquestion, come up with with a
sound bite to answer thatquestion and double their
business.
Yeah.
Uh by just talking about whatthey sell differently.
And so I think there are thereare what I would do is I would
start with five sound bites.
They they the the acronym spellsout the word peace.
SPEAKER_04 (09:34):
Okay.
So taking notes, guys.
SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
Yeah.
So the first is the problem.
Okay.
What's the problem that yousolve?
That's the most importantsoundbite that you every small
business owner needs an answerto that.
Okay.
And that's the number one thingthat you want to talk about from
here on out.
SPEAKER_04 (09:49):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And there's a lot of reasons for that.
Uh mainly because problems areinteresting and you're trying to
get attention.
SPEAKER_04 (09:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
They also qualify customers.
Yeah.
The next one is the empathysoundbite.
Here's why I care about the factthat you have this problem.
Yeah.
The next one is the answer, andthat's where you put the
product.
I have a product that's going tosolve this problem for you.
The next one is the C, P-E-A-C.
So C is change.
When you use my product, yourproblem will go away.
(10:18):
Life changes for you.
And then finally, the endresult.
What does life look like after Ibuy your product?
Let me give you an example.
A company came to me recently uhcalled You Need a Budget.
Wineab is the name of thecompany.
This is a$50 million app in theApple store.
They're making$50 million a yearselling this app.
(10:39):
They have a cult-like following.
People love this app.
They use it to manage theirmoney, they use it to manage
their lifestyle.
They came to me and they didn'tlike the word budget because
it's really not aboutrestrictive stuff.
You know, it's about spendingand you know, a bunch of re
rules on, but they're alreadydoing really well.
So let me let me give you thethe the peace sound bites.
(11:00):
P was have you ever worriedabout money?
So everybody listening to me asit relates to your business
needs a have you ever worriedabout?
unknown (11:09):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:09):
Have you ever worried about?
Then they said, We know how itfeels to worry about money.
So that's it's very simple.
That's your empatheticsoundbite.
The answer is also very simple.
Download the YNAB app.
So P E A, download the YNAB appis the answer.
C is we'll we'll help you getgood with money.
So that's how we we're changingyou, we're transforming you.
(11:30):
We're gonna help you get goodwith money.
The end result is so you neverhave to worry about money again.
Now let's say I'm at a cocktailparty.
Todd Curtis is the CEO.
Todd, let's say Todd's at acocktail party and somebody
says, Todd, what do you do?
If he says I'm the CEO ofWineab, it's an app that helps
you figure out how to spendmoney well and uh not not let it
drive you crazy, you're gonnaget some casual conversation.
(11:53):
But if if you say, Todd, what doyou do?
and he says, Well, have you oranybody you ever known worried
about money?
Yeah, all of a sudden that's amore interesting conversation.
Right, totally, absolutely.
I'm wondering where this isgoing.
And then he says, I really feelfor you.
I have 65 employees who feelyour pain, feel your uncle's
pain.
Everybody worries about money,and we really care about them.
(12:13):
What we want them to do isdownload the Wineab app off of
the App Store.
It's gonna teach you to managemoney, and we're gonna help you
get really good with money.
That's what that app is gonna doso that you never have to worry
about money again.
Yeah.
That is a much more interestingway to describe your business.
We value Matt, we value productsthat solve problems.
What most business owners do isthey talk about their product
(12:36):
thinking that the person willfigure out what problem it
solves, and nobody ever figuresit out.
So if you actually lead with theproblem, then express empathy,
which basically creates a bondbetween you and the person that
you're talking to, and thenposition your product as the
solution to that problem, theperceived value of that product
goes way up, and people are muchmore likely to buy it.
(12:57):
Then you talk about the changethat you personally are going to
experience if I use my product,if you use my product.
That says there's there's notjust a product, you're going to
transform me.
And then the end result is thehappily ever after ending that
you're going to have if you usemy product.
So essentially, every story isabout a hero who's at peace.
(13:18):
Then they fall into a hole.
Then a guide comes to the edgeof the hole, empathizes with
them, throws a rope down, pullsthem out of the hole to return
them to peace.
Yeah.
And that's exactly what you'redoing with your business.
You're saying, here's the holeyou're in, use this rope, which
is my product, so I can pull youout of this and you can get back
to normal.
SPEAKER_03 (13:36):
Yeah.
Now this is coming, is this thisis stuff out of Story Brand 2.0.
This is your latest book that'sout.
Where you is this where Piecescomes out in?
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah, it's actually there's actually more than that
in there, but that's in there,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
Okay.
So, because I know you talk alsoabout, you know, the hero is the
customer in the story and theguide here is the business.
Right.
I also thought it wasinteresting too.
I was reading some of your workabout that somehow like this
problem that you're trying tosolve and your message, or I
guess your answer and whatyou're trying to change is also
like expressing some injusticein the situation of what you're
(14:09):
trying to solve.
Yeah.
Tell me about that.
Because I'm actually going to beable to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:12):
Yeah, you're getting into the additional information.
You're, you know, the advanced.
Every business listening to meneeds those five sound bites.
Yeah.
Philosophically, here's why youneed them.
Because every human being wakesup identifying as a hero in a
story.
A hero is a character that wantssomething and overcomes conflict
to get it.
So as it relates to yourbusiness, my question to you is
(14:33):
what's the conflict that yourcustomers trying to overcome?
They need a new roof, they needa plumber, they need, you know,
they're they don't want to dotheir landscaping anymore.
What's the problem they'retrying to overcome?
They are the hero in the story.
The hero is ill-equipped, afraidto take action, in desperate
need of help.
You never want to positionyourself as the hero in the
story if you run a brand.
(14:54):
The reason is that's a weakcharacter.
That's your customer.
Your customer is a weakcharacter.
The guide, which is in almostevery movie you ever see, Mr.
Miyagi, Young.
Obi-Kenobi.
Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Mary Poppins is the guide.
The guide is a much, muchstronger character who helps the
hero win.
So every hero, every customerout there has a problem and
they're looking for somebody tohelp them.
(15:15):
And when you come along and youplay the hero, I own a locksmith
company and I'm trying to growit.
I inherited it from my fatherand I want to pass it along to
my son.
I I I'm not hearing anythingthat is helping me out of a hole
here.
And so what you need to do isposition yourself as the guide
helping the hero win.
SPEAKER_04 (15:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
And all of a sudden, people start paying attention to
you.
The the way you do that is youempathize with the customer's
pain.
You talk about their painconstantly.
I always say if you want to growyour business, talk 75% about
the pain your customer is in and25% about your product.
SPEAKER_03 (15:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
And you'll you'll your sales will go up.
SPEAKER_03 (15:52):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I know like Nike had a wholetheme for a while about um
honoring athletes, basically,and on honoring like it wasn't
about their product.
You know, it wasn't about likeour shoes do this.
It was more like honoringathletes, which I thought was
like an interesting way to lookat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Yeah, so what they're doing is they're they
have defined an aspirationalidentity for their customer.
When I talk about change andthat the transformation that a
hero goes through, think aboutYNAB.
Their last sound sound bite isyou'll never worry about our
money again.
Yeah.
And also, we will help you getgood with money.
That's an aspirational identity.
(16:30):
So what Nike is doing is saying,you know, look at these athletes
and how great they are and howamazing they are.
Yeah.
And associating that with theirNike swoosh and all of their
products, because you would liketo also be a great athlete,
wouldn't you?
SPEAKER_04 (16:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
And so I'm going to go buy these products to feel
like the aspirational identitythat Nike is presenting.
When you have that many productsand your company is that big,
it's very hard to do actualsales.
And so selling an aspirationalidentity is a move that
multi-billion dollar brands cando.
(17:07):
I would say if you have a smallbusiness, it's not your best
play.
SPEAKER_04 (17:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
In other words, you know, Coke probably spends five
billion dollars a year,Coca-Cola or more.
I don't know their marketingbudget.
And all their marketing is isreally, you know, can it's just
sort of like a feel-goodmarketing.
SPEAKER_04 (17:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
If a small business tries to do that, they'll go
bankrupt.
SPEAKER_04 (17:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:27):
The reason is we all know what Coca-Cola is.
I don't know what you do.
SPEAKER_04 (17:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
So Coca-Cola doesn't have to explain what it does, it
doesn't have to explain theproblem that it solves.
It doesn't have to do any ofthat because it's a household
name.
And a lot of times you'll takeyour hard-earned money as a
small business owner to amarketing firm, a small
marketing firm, and they'll useCoca-Cola's playbook.
Yeah.
And they'll put you inbankruptcy doing it.
SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
And they'll still take your money.
What they need to do is actuallyjust explain what problem you
solve, put it on a billboard,put it on meta ads, and start
making money.
SPEAKER_03 (17:58):
So this peace method is very specific for small
business owners.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
I mean, even a big if you're running for president,
that's the script.
So it's not just I my one of myclients is national security.
This is the script we use.
SPEAKER_03 (18:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
On China policy.
So it's it's not just smallbusinesses.
Big businesses need to do thistoo.
SPEAKER_03 (18:17):
Yeah.
I love it.
And I do think, you know, I tellour team a lot of times, I'm
like, the the problem ourcustomers face is like our
opportunity, actually.
Like that's why we exist as abusiness to begin with.
And so we are able to solvetheir problem.
This is more in the execution ofour services as we kind of talk
about it as a team.
But I'm taking notes here on howto articulate this from a
(18:38):
marketing message.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
Well, I mean, you could say something like with a
self-directed IRA.
You could say, you could saysomething like, have you ever
wanted to invest creatively, butyou can't because your money's
tied up in an IRA?
You know if you if you want amore control.
I I I'm I'm tempted to say, doyou want more control over your
(18:59):
retirement investments?
But I think that's a little bittoo elusive or vague.
It doesn't trigger that desire.
Yeah.
So if you actually say a lot ofpeople invest in real estate or
crypto or these sorts of things,they want to do these things,
but they don't have the money.
unknown (19:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
Well, actually, if you put your retirement into an
IRA account, you can you caninvest creatively.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
You know, I you know something like that would be how
I would open the conversation.
SPEAKER_03 (19:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think we kind of talkabout how we let you invest in
assets you know and believe in.
And see, but you gotta likeidentify what they're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Well, you help us control.
I have no control over what I'minvesting in.
If I gotta fund a SEP IRA,right?
Yeah.
Um, but if I put that money intoa self-directed IRA, I have a
lot of creativity and controlover what I do with my
retirement investing.
SPEAKER_03 (19:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
And maybe maybe that's an angle.
You want to test these.
SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
And I think the empathy angle is you've wanted
to do this.
Haven't you ever wanted toinvest in this and have more
control and freedom andflexibility to invest in what
you know and believe in?
Yeah.
Rather than what's on the menu.
Yeah.
I mean, that's not bad.
Fidelity.
Yeah.
Well, open up a self-directed I,right, directed I'm going to do
it.
We're going to change your life.
(20:10):
And you're going to live happilyever after having a retirement
you're looking forward to.
There you go.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Well, there it's see, it's easy.
It's easy.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
There you go.
I mean, uh, you know, I'm a goodstudent.
Well, tell me about you got someAI stuff that you're doing too.
And I've been like really I'vepoo-pooed AI on our in our team
in many ways, I have to say.
Yeah.
I'll get copy or I'll get stuff,and I'm like, did AI write this?
And they're like, yes.
I'm like, because it's kind ofthere and it sounds really good,
but it's wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Yeah.
You know?
The problem with AI, if I if Igo to Chat GPT as a writer, as
somebody who's written, I don'tknow, 15 books now, it takes me,
I I do work with AI to write.
SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
It's slower because the prompts that I'm putting in
are so long.
They're almost longer than theanswer it's giving me.
And the problem that the reasonthat bad writing is coming out
of AI is because the promptsyou're using.
Yeah.
You're not giving it, yeah.
You're not telling it what notto say.
So what I did was createdstorybrand.ai and gave it 110
single-spaced uh pages of noteson.
(21:15):
So for instance, storybrand.aiwill never let you play the hero
in the story.
It will always position you asthe guide.
SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Uh it will not make that mistake.
And everybody makes thatmistake.
Story brand will not be vague,it will not be elusive, it will
not be probably my favorite.
It will not let you use insidelanguage, it will not do any of
that.
And so the the results are muchbetter.
I would still say considereverything that comes out as
rough draft, you know, and testit.
(21:42):
But what I wanted to do is takeand improve from a writer's
perspective, and I've writtenmany books, uh, what AI was
going to spit out.
And so storybrand.ai came out ofthat.
SPEAKER_03 (21:53):
Okay.
So I want to get where we aretoday because I want to get
those three things out on thetable.
How to grow your small business.
Yeah.
I want to talk about what you'redoing with Storybrand 2.0.
We got in AI, because that's allcutting edge.
People do want to hear about AI.
And I'm trying to figure thatout.
Everybody's trying to figurethat out, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (22:07):
But I want to just talk about like some of the
lessons you've learned withworking with small business
owners.
SPEAKER_04 (22:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (22:12):
Then maybe some examples or two where you've
seen transformational change.
And because I we run acrossbusiness owners, you know, you
know, as a as a business and taxlawyer, I'd get them on the
phone and they're making so muchmoney, they're just like want
every tax strategy out there.
Yeah.
And I'm like, wow, they're sosuccessful.
And then we got other onesfighting issues, problems here
and there, and they're likehanging on for dear life.
(22:34):
And like, I'm just gonna go backto my job.
Entrepreneurship and smallbusiness is really hard.
Yeah.
Right.
And um, so there can be a lot ofsuccess and a lot of failure, I
think, in entrepreneurism,running a small business.
What have you seen that'sconsistent or would be
instructional for most smallbusiness owners listening right
now to make meaningful impact intheir business?
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
I I the number one thing, and I've got two, but the
number one thing is that youneed to worry about and figure
out is what problem am I gonnaown?
That's it.
Uh you have got to own aproblem.
And when people think of a leakyroof or a dog that barks every
time somebody knocks on thedoor, they've got to think about
you if that's the problem yousolve.
(23:16):
Yeah.
And so you need to work on yoursound bite that says, if you're
struggling with X, call me.
Well, what's X?
Most people are vague or theylist too many things and it goes
in one ear, out the other.
If you can actually nail thatproblem, that's the biggest
challenge to growing yourbusiness, is people can't figure
(23:37):
out why they should buy fromyou.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
Now the the only reason anybody pulls out their
wallet and buys anything is tosolve a problem.
And so if you own a problem,then everybody who has that
problem is going to give youmoney.
But if you are vague and elusivein how you talk about it, you're
not gonna own the problem.
The money is in the problem.
So that's the number one thing.
SPEAKER_03 (23:57):
What's a good example?
Do you have you have do you havean example of someone you've
worked with or even your ownbusiness expertise where you had
to like refocus that and it waslike transformational change?
Like it's not sometimes like,you know, we think of the
aircraft, it's not so much likethat the the wings or the
products are wrong, whether it'sthe locksmith or the plumber or
whatever it is.
Like they have the expertise tosolve the problem.
(24:17):
They're just messaging it wrong.
SPEAKER_04 (24:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (24:19):
Who's up in the cockpit is like going around
like you know, they can't hitthe right the right path
forward, whatever it is, youknow, to like drive that plane
efficiently to make itprofitable.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Let me give you a non-small business example, just
because it's a fun example.
National security.
So the national security, theNSA is a massive organization.
It's classified how manyemployees.
I don't have a securityclearance there, but I've worked
with them quite a bit.
They have so many challenges.
Eight or so divisions,cybersecurity, Signet, you know,
(24:53):
they work with the Pentagon,they work with foreign security
analysis and organizations.
They have to do uh congressionalauthorization to fund the NSA
every single year.
So they're going to Congressevery year and asking them to
re-up the budget, which meansSenate hearing after Senate
hearing after confirmationhearing.
(25:13):
So what they didn't have thoughwas a controlling idea because
it's a it's actually arelatively new organization.
Massive, the budget is is notdisclosed.
And they have all sorts ofproblems.
I mean, people think they spy onAmerican citizens, they don't.
Yeah.
You know, like Hollywood isreally misrepresenting them in a
terrible way.
(25:33):
And so as as we worked withthem, we thought, well, you
know, they had kind of atagline, which was protect our
freedom, defend the future.
But that that's that's anexample of vague.
SPEAKER_04 (25:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
So when you go m member to meet a member of
Congress and they have somepower to affect this
authorization, and you say,Well, defend our freedom, you
know, they're going, what areyou, the Marines?
What are you the Pentagon?
What are you making us ahelicopter?
What are you doing?
So we needed something morespecific than that.
And the interim directoractually came up with
intelligence means victory.
(26:07):
Three words.
So now you go to Congress andyou say, Well, as you know,
intelligence means victory andwe need billions of dollars.
What are they saying yes or noto?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:16):
Victory.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Right?
And it's also in nowintelligence is just what they
collect, uh, but they alsoprotect our intelligence.
That has some weight to it nowbecause it means we get defeated
if we don't have it.
That's the sort of sound bitethat you're looking for.
Something that immediately says,okay, let's talk about that.
(26:38):
That seems really, reallyimportant.
SPEAKER_03 (26:39):
Whoever's buying, whether that's a customer or a
member of Congress, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Yeah, because really what is Congress saying is like
we're we're running a pretty baddeficit, yeah, and you're asking
for what?
And so what they're actuallysaying is, why are you
important?
Why should I fund you?
Well, defend our future, protectthe freedom, it's not gonna
motivate a pen on a check.
What's gonna motivate that isintelligence means victory.
And so, you know, you're lookingfor that sound bite that
(27:04):
explains why your product is sourgent, what problem it solves,
and it needs to resonate withyour customer in seconds, really
in milliseconds.
As soon as you say it, somebodyneeds to say, I need that, or my
uncle needs that.
SPEAKER_04 (27:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
Or tell me more.
SPEAKER_04 (27:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:22):
You know, because I I might want to buy this.
Let me give you an example.
Let's say you're at a cocktailparty and you meet two people
who do the same thing, sameproduct, same price, same
quality.
Meet the first one, you say,What do you do?
They say, Well, I'm an at-homechef.
You know, I come to your houseand I cook.
You're gonna have questionsabout where they went to
culinary school, you're gonnahave questions about who they've
cooked for.
You ever cooked for anybodyfamous?
You know, things like that.
(27:42):
Next person, an hour later, sameproduct, same price, same value,
everything.
What do you do?
Well, you know how most familiesdon't eat together anymore
because they don't have time.
I'm an at-home chef.
I come to your house and cook.
Completely differentconversation.
SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
Yeah, way better positioned.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
But it's the same product.
But but chef number two is gonnado all the business.
Yeah.
Because they've positioned theirproduct as the solution to a
problem.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:04):
I love that example because it gets it what it gets
at the problem you might notthink you're solving.
Like Yeah, what's the that's awhat's the real problem?
What's the real problem?
You're not solving food.
No.
You're solving I want to eat athome with my family and I don't
have time.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_03 (28:20):
And that's way more compelling.
Like I'd buy that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:24):
We do, I buy that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:27):
We have someone that comes to our house that cooks
for us because we have thatproblem.
SPEAKER_01 (28:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:30):
And you want to eat at home.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
You want to eat healthy and you want to eat
together and you don't have timeto cook.
SPEAKER_03 (28:34):
And I don't buy it because I need food.
I buy it because I want to be athome.
SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
That's exactly it and pay a premium for it.
I get my haircut on my frontporch.
Yeah.
So I don't have time.
Yeah.
You know, so it it let's say,and I probably charge I probably
pay twice as much for a haircut.
Yeah.
But that that barber, you know,she Robin, she might introduce
herself by saying, you know,really busy people that don't
have time to get a haircut.
(28:58):
But in this age, day and age,you gotta look good.
I come to your house.
I come to your house and I cook.
And I cook your house and I cutyour hair.
SPEAKER_04 (29:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
That's how she should position herself.
SPEAKER_04 (29:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
And she can charge twice as much for doing that.
SPEAKER_03 (29:08):
Can I tell you one of the best sells I just
remember this moment?
I was I had a BMW at the time.
Love that car.
It was this BMW six series.
I took it in to get fixed.
It had a had a tire blown out onit.
The guy, this is the guy like,you know, just selling me tires,
right?
And he comes back and he's like,All right, well, I have that
tire, but it's like$1,200.
I'm like, for one tire?
(29:30):
And he's like, yeah.
He's like, but I'll put it on in45 minutes.
He's like, and he and I waslike, done.
He sold me on time because Ithought when he phrased it that
way, I thought, I'm gonna haveto go somewhere else.
Go to Costco or discount tie,wherever you go.
Yeah.
(29:50):
And he knew I was in a hustlebecause I was in there, like,
all right, how much longer willthis?
What's the time?
When can I get in?
Like, so he kind of had a thisis just a you know a one on one
thing, but I'm just thinking.
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
That was really, really intelligent of him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:04):
I was like, done.
He's like, cool, you'll be donein 30, 40, 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
But I mean, yeah, I mean, I you know, I probably
would have made the samedecision.
That's so interesting.
Because he reframed it that asnot being about money, but being
about time.
He didn't think that's the same.
SPEAKER_03 (30:16):
The thing is, if you don't buy that tire, this
matches your other tires.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
He was like And also you you quickly realized if I
don't buy this tire, it's gonnacost me hours to figure out how
to solve this problem.
That was probably a$600 tire.
SPEAKER_02 (30:30):
Yeah, exactly.
I knew I looked in the 30minutes.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
He charged you$600 for the 45 minutes.
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
I was Googling what that tire really was for.
It was not$1,200.
And he knew that.
Yeah.
He told me that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:41):
He's like, go get somewhere else.
But but I do think some of thoseattributes to your services,
that could be the plumber or thelocksmith.
A lot of people who do might DYDIY the service that you that
you sell, right?
You're a lot of times you'regiving them back time, which you
can tie to their family or thethings that they otherwise may
want to do or love.
SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
Or is there a big you know, one thing to ask
ourselves is our product solvesproblem X.
Is there a more valuable problemthat it also solves?
Our problem solves a hungryfamily.
But a family that can't connectbecause they they can't sit
together at dinner anymore is abigger problem.
Well, let's switch to that.
SPEAKER_04 (31:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Let's talk about that now.
SPEAKER_04 (31:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
And let's see if that gets a better result.
You're you're always looking tosort of say, is there a bigger
problem that I can solve here?
I have a friend who wrote a bookabout the Enneagram, you know,
personality theory type thing.
I got an email from him and itsaid he's doing a spiritual
retreat for 50 bucks on theEnneagram.
So I texted him back and I said,I'll pay 50 bucks to learn what
(31:43):
you know about the Enneagram tohelp me spiritually.
But I'll pay 10,000 if you canhelp my team connect with each
other and understand each other.
He called me and said, What areyou talking about?
I said, It's the same thing.
Yeah, just sell it, package itin a different way and solve a
bigger problem.
Now that's all he does.
And he has two houses doing it.
Because he took the same productinstead of selling it for 50
(32:05):
bucks, he sold it for 10,000bucks because it's like a
cordless drill.
I can either come and hang apicture or I can use it to build
a house.
Yeah.
But it's just it's the samedrill.
So you got to figure out whatproblem am I solving here.
SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
Yeah, and I think you know, you've got a whether
it's marketing or sales andhowever your messaging, your
story, what whatever this is,like we have a certain amount of
attention from people and thiswindow of buying opportunity,
whether it's an email that yougot or you know, it's a
one-on-one conversation, it's awhatever it is.
It's an ad, it's a website.
(32:41):
I mean, people have limitedattention span, and we do think
they will connect the dots.
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
No, they won't.
SPEAKER_03 (32:47):
Yeah.
Like you gotta lay it up forthem.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
You do.
You you can't, you know, we havea notch around our office and
it's don't make people think.
unknown (32:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:55):
You know, do not make people think.
Spell it out so clearly.
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
Don't bury the lead.
SPEAKER_01 (33:00):
Which by the way, the reason that people are are
not clear is because it'sextremely hard.
It's very, very easy to saythings that are vague and
confusing.
It is extremely hard to saythings clearly.
But when you say things clearly,nobody has to think to figure
out why they should give youmoney.
So it's worth sitting andthinking about the sound bite
(33:21):
that I'm going to use.
And one of the reasons I lovesound bites is you write it once
and you repeat it a milliontimes.
Yeah.
And you memorize it and you justsay it.
It's just a line.
SPEAKER_03 (33:29):
Part of your team culture, too.
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
That's exactly it.
SPEAKER_03 (33:32):
It's very digestible.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Yeah.
15 minutes can save you 15% oncar insurance or whatever it is.
Like that's your line.
Yeah.
And you just repeat it over andover and you make a billion
dollars.
SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
Okay.
So I started this dialogue hereof one major thing, and you
talked about sound bites,getting clear on the problem
that you're solving.
Like, what problem do I own?
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
Yes, own a problem.
SPEAKER_03 (33:54):
How about that?
Own a problem.
SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
And and let me just say this real quick.
Many small business owners willsay, Well, all my competitors
solve the same problem.
Let me just tell you if you'resaying it clearly in the mind of
the public, you're the only onesolving that problem.
Yeah.
You're the only one.
So clarity is your competitiveadvantage.
If so many good one-linerscience, well, you know, think
(34:16):
about like think about likePeter's Clarity is your How many
doctors out there are helpingyou with longevity?
Yeah.
A million?
How many can you name?
One.
SPEAKER_04 (34:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:25):
Why?
Because he communicates theclearest.
Yeah.
Peter Atia.
And so you want to be thatperson in your industry.
You want to own it.
You're going to own it withclarity.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
Okay.
I think you said you had twothings.
You said one was what problem doI have to do?
SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
Yeah, the other one is a whole other, a whole other
world that we can dive into.
But maybe let's give him a tasteof the case.
Yeah, you need a master plan.
You know, I learned uh I readPete Carroll's book.
Oh, I think it was called WinWin Forever.
Yeah.
Okay.
I met him and got to know him,and we spent some time together.
Not much.
He probably wouldn't remember menow, but he did remember me for
(34:59):
a minute.
But he he's he's an inspirationfor me.
And he made it all the way tothe head coach of the Jets and
the head coach of the NewEngland Patriots and was fired.
He had 500 seasons, I think,with those teams.
He had a year off in SouthernCalifornia where he was from,
and he decided you know, thething I've never done as an NFL
coach or as a coach, period, isput together a master plan of
(35:21):
how I would run a team.
I've been winging it.
And so he he spent a yearputting together a giant binder
of how he would run practice,how he would run meetings, how
he would recruit players, allthis kind of stuff.
And he got organized.
He even had a page on how thereceptionist would answer the
phone.
So he became a micromanager of ateam.
USC called him and said, Can weinterview you for the head coach
(35:42):
job?
Now, what was true at the timewas USC already had their head
coach, but the board was sayingyou need to hire you need to
interview two other coaches inorder to we're not gonna let you
hire this guy.
Well, Pete lived in the area, sothey were like, Well, we don't
have to fly him in.
Yeah, let's get him in here for30 minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
So he comes in, he drops thisbinder on the desk, and they
(36:04):
start asking him questions.
Like eight hours later, he'sstill sitting there and they're
they're blown away by this guy.
And they actually say, Whatwould you say in the press
conference if we made you headcoach at USC?
And he said, Well, turn to page433 because I already wrote it.
And he did.
And they hired him on the spot.
SPEAKER_04 (36:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
And uh he they were and he took him to multiple
national championships.
Then he goes on to Seattle,takes him to two Super Bowls,
and wins one of them.
The difference between yourunning a good business and you
being a champion is that masterplan.
And I just saw a clip of NickSaban in a meeting at Alabama.
He had a binder.
I'm not making this up, man.
That binder was 20 inches thick.
(36:42):
I don't even know that.
I don't even know where they gotthat binder.
Like who makes that binder?
It's this thick.
And you say, well, how does hewin national championships?
He knows how you're supposed todrink from the water fountain.
SPEAKER_04 (36:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
And you better do it right.
SPEAKER_04 (36:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:55):
And everybody knows their job.
There's no excuse.
He's not winging it.
And that's the point I'mpreaching to the choir because
that's the point I'm in with mycompany.
Like if we're gonna get to 100million, we need we need a
master plan on how everything inthis business operates.
Yeah.
And um, that's the journey I'mon next, is that master plan.
SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
Yeah, and I think if we go back to that the plane
analogy, you know, if you'rethat captain in the cockpit, you
know, flying that thing, youbetter know everything about
that business, how that plane'ssupposed to fly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:27):
I mean, that is like your well, and you do it with
you do it with checklists.
You do not you do not trust yourgut.
SPEAKER_03 (37:34):
Yes.
And that's why they do thatthing, right?
But the whole team know theirrole and what their
responsibility is.
What do we do if there's danger?
What if this warning goes off,right?
Like all these contingencies andthings you think of for flying a
plane.
This is a business.
I mean, that stuff iscomplicated and hard too.
SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (37:51):
There are challenges.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
And people can get hurt.
SPEAKER_03 (37:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
People's livelihoods are at stake.
SPEAKER_03 (37:55):
Yeah, there's a lot at risk.
You know, your own, youremployees, your customers.
I mean, you've got to win on allthose different areas.
And I think it can be difficultto be at the helm of that.
And and having a plan, I mean,we we try to do this.
I'm just thinking of so manythings to do here for myself,
but I gotta get not caught up inthat.
I can totally um relate to thatpreparation and planning, the
(38:20):
initial thought in it.
But I will say one thing isbeing willing to change and
adapt to.
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:25):
And that there could be contingencies like in Pete
Carroll's binder.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
I'm sure every page changes.
Yeah, you know, what happened.
That's how your marketingdirector comes back and says,
Hey, I'd like to change how wedo a webinar.
Okay, well, let's talk about it.
And then rip that out and put itin.
SPEAKER_03 (38:38):
What do we do?
You know, there is no more Pac10 or 12, whatever it was.
So well, Donald, awesome to haveyou here.
SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
Matt, thank you.
I've I've I've really loved thisconversation.
SPEAKER_03 (38:46):
Yeah, it's been great.
I got you a tax tip too.
You got me a great tax tip.
Before we go here, self-rentalrule.
If you didn't make it here onthe podcast, so we clipped that
out.
But uh self-rental rule for anyof you business owners buying
real estate for your ownbusiness, which Donald's doing,
you can use a self-rental ruleto write off your real estate
losses against the businessincome.
All right, where should peoplego um to learn more about you or
anything you've got coming up?
SPEAKER_01 (39:07):
Storybrand.com.
Okay, storybrand.ai is where youcan go, and I'll write your
sound bites for you.
I love it.
And by the way, that's free.
There's a paid version, but youget it for seven days for free.
So uh let me write your soundbites.
SPEAKER_03 (39:21):
And I'll write your sound bites for you.
So you're always good with themessaging.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
You know, you don't just teach me.
Let me let me let me say itbetter.
Let me say it better.
You're saying it wrong and it'scosting you money.
Let me rewrite it for you.
Go to storybrand.ai.
SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
So you can make more business.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
That's exactly so you can make more money and
enjoy your life.
So you stop sounding like afool.
SPEAKER_03 (39:38):
See, we gotta get to the change and the end result
too.
I'll carry that through.
SPEAKER_01 (39:42):
I love that that's yeah, so that you can retire
with an IRA that you cancontrol.
Yeah, with a lot more money.
SPEAKER_03 (39:47):
You're actually looking forward to.
Not dreading.
Awesome to have you here.
Thanks so much.
Get over to Storybrand 2.0.
SPEAKER_01 (39:53):
Storybrand 2.0 is the book on Amazon.
SPEAKER_03 (39:56):
Okay, storybrand.com and then storybrand.ai.
SPEAKER_01 (39:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (39:59):
All right.
And then you have an eventcoming up too.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, we do.
We have one in uh January.
It's a story brand your businesslive.
It's limited to a hundredpeople, but I'm in the room for
two days with you.
And I'm gonna really write yoursound bites.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell you when they'rewhen they're wrong.
Okay.
And we've got about 20 coacheswho are gonna be in the room
kind of hovering around and makesure you get it right.
(40:22):
So if you just want to nail itdown, you want to get your five
sound bites.
SPEAKER_03 (40:25):
Other business owners.
SPEAKER_01 (40:26):
Yeah, other business owners, other business owners.
We're gonna look at uh yourwebsite and show you how you can
do things differently.
And you can find out more aboutthat at storybrand.com.
Actually, I'm sorry,storybrandyourbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_03 (40:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Yeah, is where that one is.
SPE (40:40):
Storybrandyourbusiness.com.
All right.
Well, thanks for being in today.
Um, thanks everyone for beinghere for the Main Street
Business Podcast.
We'll be back next week withanother amazing episode.
We'll see you then.
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