Zach sits down with writer and relationship coach Matthew Fray https://matthewfray.com/, author of "This Is How Your Marriage Ends", and his partner, Jen. Together, they share the story of how their friendship over bourbon turned into a deeper relationship, shaped by lessons learned from past marriages and the blind spots that can quietly erode trust.
Matt opens up about how regret from his first marriage fuels his vigilance against repeating old patterns, while Jen explains why she trusted him enough to take a second chance on love. Their candid reflections on ADHD, planning differences, and emotional expression highlight how self-awareness, humility, and accountability create space for a resilient partnership.
Zach guides the conversation toward practical insights—why blind spots matter, how humility differs from humiliation, and how relational “paper cuts” can accumulate if couples ignore them. The episode offers a powerful reminder that love after divorce isn’t just possible—it can be stronger when both partners commit to learning and growth.
Key Takeaways
Blind spots are the silent killers – Most people aren’t malicious in relationships, but their unexamined habits can unintentionally harm trust.
Humility protects intimacy – Owning your limitations (like ADHD or defensiveness) allows space for growth without shame.
Grace and patience matter – Jen emphasizes that knowing Matt’s challenges means choosing him with them, not in spite of them.
Reciprocity in needs – Emotional connection for her and physical intimacy for him form a circle of mutual investment.
Coldness vs. stoicism – Jen reflects on how upbringing shaped her emotional availability, and how she works on showing warmth more consistently.
Shared values anchor them – A “writer’s brain,” moral compass, and mutual respect form the foundation for long-term confidence in the relationship.
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