#31 | Reliving the Games World Journey with Matt Blair - Mean Machine Talks

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey everyone, welcome to Meemachine Talks.
This has probably been apodcast that's 30 years in the
making.
I say this every podcast, buttoday's guest is probably one of
the most special ones I've hadOur paths crossed by the way of

(00:29):
YouTube.
He lit up my little face with acomment in one of my videos.
But to explain a little bitmore about my guest, which is
Matt Blair, he classes himselfas a musician, a comedian, a
film fanatic, an idiot which wecan go into, and also a coffee
lover, which is something thatwe can definitely talk about.

(00:49):
He also has his own podcast,the Geek Apportium podcast, but
I'm sure he'll come onto all ofthat.
Matt Blair met me 30 years agoon Game 12, when I was very
small, and he was slightlysmaller but slightly more taller
than me.
But what a pleasure it is.
Welcome, matt, to MeemachineTalks, a podcast.

(01:09):
I never thought would happen,but here we are.
How are you today?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm good.
Thank you very much for havingme.
It's lovely to see you againafter 30 odd years.
Yeah, it's lovely.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, it's a very surreal moment.
I've been thinking about thissince I first invited you to the
podcast because I just didn'tknow what it would be like,
because I mean I was casting mymemory back and I mean there are
snapshots that I remember ofGame 12.
I remember the important partsI guess you could say, but I

(01:41):
don't remember.
Yeah, exactly, well, winningthat part.
I didn't win the Grand Final,unfortunately, but anyway,
that's for another time.
But I did beat Big Boy Barryrecently.
So have you not seen that video?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
No, I haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'll tell you about that story in a moment.
So most people know that I hadthis picture taken in 2019,
before the world went to shitand that was just after I beat
him at the game that he beat meout at Games World so well
that's lovely, that's cool therewe go the Games World Reunion.
There we go.
So, yes, I mean, I rememberhonestly very little about our

(02:21):
show.
I think there are certainsnapshots in my mind that do
appear back.
But one thing I wanted to knowbecause it's very interesting to
hear everybody's input was howdid you get invited into Games
World and how did you get ontothe show?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
So this would involve telling you a little bit about
myself.
It might feel a little, notlike a huge downer, but at least
like it might feel a little bitof a downer.
But it's not meant to be, itjust is.
So it was mainly through my dad.
He helped me out a lot, and soI'm going to now ask you,

(03:01):
because you might be like Idon't know Do you know who my
dad is?

Speaker 1 (03:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
The clue is in my surname.
My father was the lateFantastic Lionel Blair.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
And he kind of.
So I found out that they weredoing like auditions, like sort
of like tryouts for Games World,and I have a feeling that,
because of my dad and hispresence there at the tryouts, I
feel like they probably justlet me through.

(03:35):
Like if he wasn't there and Iplayed on my own merits I'm not
100% I would have got through.
But the guy that I ended uphaving to play against I
remember it was a fighting gameand I did tear him apart in it,
but I don't know whether when Ilook back at it and it was being
like I must have been 11, 12years old or something like that
it's hard to tell whether theywere just being nice and letting

(04:00):
me win or if I was genuinely,and the further away I get from
it, it's like they definitelylet me win.
There's no way that the guy theworks for the tryouts of Games
World and so easily loses, like,listen, I've always been a
gamer and I've always lovedplaying games, but I've never
been amazingly good at games.

(04:21):
I just enjoy playing them.
There are some games I am verygood at, but most of them I
don't care that much.
But I have a feeling that thisguy just let me through, and
then that was sort of it.
I'm trying to, I desperatelytry to remember exactly where
those tryouts were held, but Ican't think for the life of me

(04:43):
where they were.
I think it was like Bromley,maybe I don't know, though I'm
just picking that name out ofthe air.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
So the only thing that I, at first of all, I can't
believe I'm talking to LionelBlair's son.
That hasn't quite sunk in yet,but I'll let that marinate in my
mind for a minute.
But yeah, the only thing I doremember was the actual Games
World set was in a old Sarsonsvinegar brewery which I think

(05:09):
was in East London.
As for the tryouts, do you knowwhat I think?
Do you know what I'm going todo?
Live on the air.
I'm going to message my brotherbecause he came with me, because
he had the trial as well.
He actually got into the showand got kicked out in the first
round.
Sorry, brother, Let me just askhim now Do you remember where

(05:32):
the Games World tryouts were inLondon?
This is going to be fantastic,because he's normally got a
memory elephany.
You just remember random facts.
I'm fascinated to see if he'sgoing to get back to me.
But yeah, I definitely rememberEast London Sarsons vinegar
brewery because I remember mydad talking to one of the

(05:53):
backstage staff about it.
But I firmly remember thetryouts being on like some
second or third floor officetype space and there was like a
waiting area and there was likeconsoles at the back and you
kind of got caught up and stufflike that.
I think the beating up they hador, sorry, the fighting game
they had running I think wasSuper Street Fighter 2.

(06:16):
The only reason I remember isbecause it had the new
characters and as a kid I waslike, oh, new characters, this
will be cool, completelyforgetting the fact that you
know you're meant to be here fora flipping trial, didn't have a
clue of any of the movesets andwas getting absolutely
massacred.
And I met my brother going pickre who you mug and I was like,

(06:37):
oh yeah, we have it for a tryout.
And then something startedwinning.
So yeah, I'm amazed that yourLionel Blair son.
I honestly had no idea allthose years have passed.
That's absolutely insane.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
But you didn't come to the actual recording of the
show.
That's the thing.
He didn't come to that, right,I see.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I see, yeah, he said he can't actually Damn.
Do you know what?
I know a man who would AlexBerry, big boy Barry, this guy,
he wouldn't know.
I'm going to hit him up off thepodcast and find out where that
is.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's kind of interesting because another
friend of mine like one of mybest friends ever, he actually
went to school and I'veforgotten his name, but he went
to school with the kid whoplayed Master Moriarty.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Ah, okay.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
And I went to see him do a school play.
My mate and Master Moriarty wasalso in the school play as well
, like it was.
Just it was a very surrealmoment seeing like my best
friend and this other like kidfrom TV.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
It was very weird yeah it's small world kind of
thing, you know yeah it's beenvery it's been very weird for me
because I've been on podcastswhere Rick Henderson, the Violet
Blade I've known him for prettymuch since Gameswell, to be
honest, and speaking to himafter all these years and
obviously seeing Alex after 30odd years and stuff, it's just,

(07:57):
it's it's like a disjointedfamily that whenever you meet,
everybody suddenly got all theseconnections to different people
that you know, that they knowand other people know.
It's a very surreal moment.
But Lionel Blair's son Well,I've really, I've really hit the
high point now with thispodcast.
There we go Right, so we'llcome on to Gameswell later.

(08:19):
But what I normally do is openup the floor to my guests to
talk about what they do.
So I will let you plug anythingyou want for as long as you
want, and then we'll get back ontrack.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Okay, the floor is yours.
I mean, wow, what to tell youabout myself?
So before, before everythingwent to crap with the pandemic
and everything, I've beenworking as a comedian, cabaret
musician, gigging like in Europe.
When we were allowed to, when Iwas allowed to freely work in

(08:53):
Europe, that was, that was agood time.
That was a good time.
Can't do that now.
And, yeah, we're doing gigs,we're doing festivals,
glastonbury, download, latitude,all sorts of nice little bits
and bobs.
Sometimes I'd be playing drums,sometimes I'd be playing guitar
, sometimes I'd be doing standup.
But I was part of this doubleact but, like 2021, that came to
an end, the double act I've run.

(09:14):
Now I've run a monthly comedynight in Chiswick at the
Spacakville Park course, whichis, which is lovely.
And I do Twitch streaming.
Twitch username Matt Blair, uk,if you want to.
You know I do mainly at themoment, mainly music on Twitch,
but I do.
I do do games, but at themoment it's just music, because

(09:35):
I'm sort of in the middle of amove and it's all been a bit
like chaotic and I can't reallysettle with a game, if you know
what I mean, because I like mystory games and I like to play
out the stories.
I'm not one of those streamersthat sort of grinds a particular
game for a very long time.
I mean I have done that onTwitch, but that's not my main
thing.
I like stories, so you know.

(09:56):
I like Guardians of the Galaxygame, which was superb, shadow
of the Colossus, last Guardian,no sorts of things, other stuff
that I do.
At the moment I work for Roland,which is pretty nice I like.
If you know who Roland are,they make keyboards and electric
drums.
I work mainly for the guitardepartment, which is boss, boss
pedals and stuff like that andwhat this is guitar product

(10:19):
specialist, which is quite anice title.
I quite like that and otherbits and bobs.
You know I just do as muchcomedy, guitar playing and
gaming as I can.
That's really my life, that's.
That's.
That's the stuff right there.
In terms of games, if we wantto talk games, is that what

(10:39):
we're going to do?

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Well, we can talk about anything.
I mean, you've got your podcastas well, so feel free to talk
about that Well it's actuallyhas ended now.
How dare?

Speaker 2 (10:47):
you, I know no, that we.
So it was called theGeekitorium and it was it was.
We did it.
We started it during thepandemic.
It was my great friend, rickCaranza, and he's a fellow
comedian and we'd wanted to worktogether for ages and he
already had the podcast but hewasn't really doing anything
with it and he wanted a co-host.
And then I was like I'm righthere, dude, I'm right here.

(11:10):
And he was like I was waitingfor you to offer, so I didn't
have to ask, which was a veryweird thing.
But then we did that and itbecame, because the whole point
of the podcast was we wouldwatch nerdy things or read nerdy
things and then talk about themin sort of spoilery detail and
all that.
But then he had a kid and I wasworking again because things

(11:32):
opened up and it became harderand harder to keep the podcast
going consistently.
It just was really, because alot of people don't realize it's
not just sit around, talk andput it out there.
There's the editing, there'sthe artwork and promotional
stuff and making clips topromote and it's.
It's a lot of work and it takesa lot of time.

(11:55):
It doesn't earn you any money,so you kind of have to try and
justify it and when you run outof ways to justify it, it was
like we kind of need to stop thepodcast and it's a shame
because we miss talking to eachother on that weekly basis, but
we don't miss the admin.
So it's tricky stuff.
It's tricky stuff.

(12:16):
So, yeah, but you can listen tothe old episodes, the geeky
tour, what's on Apple andSpotify and anchor and all the
other places.
So you know, check it out.
If you want to hear us talkabout episodes of TV shows that
were finished two years ago.
You know, if you want to hearour views on She-Hulk and our
views on Picard and Obi-Wan,yeah, you can.

(12:38):
You can listen to our podcast.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Awesome.
Well, there we go, there we go.
It's going to sound like areally weird question to us.
Have you always lived inChiswick?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I don't live in Chiswick.
Oh, I'm going to be night inChiswick.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Oh, ok, interesting Because Chiswick isn't a million
miles away from where I live,so oh, OK, no.
I'm in.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Chiswick every week because I also I write host pub
quizzes in Chiswick, which isevery Wednesday at the same
place.
I'll pack halls.
So if you like a pub quiz, youcan come along, because, yeah, I
put together a pub quiz.
It's it's, it's a bit of fun.
It's only a couple of quidperson.
So, yeah, it's it's, it's, it'sgood.
And yeah, I just run a comedynight there.
I live sort of like nearWimbledon, so I'm sort of South

(13:20):
London.
I'm South London and I work incentral London, so I'm very
London based.
But yeah, no Chiswick.
I've been doing the quiz atChiswick this is 2019 and been
running the comedy night theresince September, so last year.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
So I will definitely be trying to make my way there
now.
Now I know you're there, so nowI've got to do, now I've got no
excuse to come and see you now,so so, yeah, I mean it sounds
like you've definitely kept yourgaming head on since all those
years ago, but there was a patchwhere I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
There was a patch where I wasn't sort of.
I basically kind of stoppedgaming during the PS one era.
I just, I just didn't, I justdidn't.
My friends did know would playwhen I was at theirs, but it
would normally be a VirtuaFighter or Tekken because, you
know, because friend of Mars hada had a Dreamcast, so that's
where we played Virtua Fighterstuff.
And then I just, I just I wasmore sort of focused on guitar

(14:23):
and music, college and thingslike that.
So I didn't really game thatmuch.
It wasn't until I got a PS two,because I just sort of thought I
needed a DVD player and Ithought if I'm going to get a
DVD player, I may as well haveit be multifunctional rather
than just this one little device.
So so that's, that's, that's,that was my thinking.

(14:46):
And then I slowly got back intoit.
You know I had the oddwrestling game and I had a
Rayman game, but the games thatreally brought me back into
gaming and it might seem I don'tknow at the time it was
different.
Now it's like oh, it's likeflavour of the month kind of

(15:07):
thing, but it was God of War2005.
And you can't see properlybehind me.
I do have a.
Kratos picture on my wall behindme.
I love those games.
I love those games so much.
But it's also because one ofthe gameplay is fantastic and
for the first three games thegameplay didn't change.

(15:29):
So it was very easy to justmove on to the sequel just so
easy and it was just.
It just felt like DLC asopposed to, you know, a new game
, few bits and bobs here andthere were different couple of
mechanics, but otherwise it'svirtually the same game with a
new story.
But the story is what I cameback for.
I loved that story because Ihave a fascination with Greek

(15:51):
myth and those games.
Obviously, of course, they playfast and loose with the, the,
the, the actual story of Greekmyth.
But it was great.
They really, really got me intothe games again.
And I had these friends.
They were PC gamers, you know.
They, they, they, they would.
I'd spend nights.

(16:11):
You know we'd get wasted onthings I won't talk about, but
we got wasted.
I would watch them play Halofor hours and it was great.
And then then I eventually got.
Well, I got a PSP.
I went, I got, I ended up inhospital.
So I got a PSP, but the PSPended up being faulty so I took

(16:33):
it back, got the money back andgot an Xbox 360.
And then got into games likebecause I had friends that would
point me in that direction, Igot like oblivion, elder Scrolls
, oblivion.
That was sort of my first forayinto that kind of into that
kind of game.
Bio shock loved that.

(16:55):
First bio shock.
Second one not too good.
Third one amazing.
I really liked the third one,but that first bio shock was
absolutely incredible.
What are the games that I playon the 360?
In a hit man, you know, I did abit of the stealth stuff but
again none of the story stuffwas hitting.
But oh no, I by passing somestuff on PS2, actually Shadow of

(17:17):
the Colossus I have now boughtthree times.
I got it when it first came out.
Do you want?

Speaker 1 (17:24):
to.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I got the PlayStation 3 remaster and then
I got the full remake and I've,I've, I've played all multiple
times and it wasn't until thepandemic, it wasn't until
lockdown, that I actually couldbe bothered to try and climb the
temple.
It took that long.

(17:46):
It was like, ok, I think Iplayed this enough.
Now I think I can do this.
I tried maybe a couple of timesback in the day, but but never
actually made it.
But during the pandemic I waslike this is look, we've got
nothing to live for at themoment.
I've got this.
This is, this is going to be my, my task, this is my mission
right now.
And I did it, which was whichwas great.

(18:07):
The other games that really, youknow, I feel some.
I'm a bit what's the word?
Basic in some respects, but Ilove the Arkham series as well,
like the Batman Arkham series,like that.
That was some proper, proper,amazing gaming and also
brilliant storytelling.
I agree, I love that wholestoryline of the Arkham series.

(18:28):
Really, really did I had.
The thing is I haven't playedGotham Knights.
I heard it was terrible, so Ijust didn't bother.
I have not played GothamKnights, so I don't.
Maybe I'm wrong, someonecorrect me, I don't know, but it
just bothered me that it wasn'treally connected to that main
storyline, because I still feelthere's more to be told with
that, because that weird endingwhen you 100 percent, it is not

(18:49):
really an ending.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's annoying.
So what other games, what otherthings about I mean now?
Now I do have the PlayStation 5and I'm very much into like
again, I did the Dead Spaceremake.
I'm actually very OK with themdoing these remakes.
I'm really OK with it becausedo you know one game that I'd

(19:13):
like to see remade?
I don't know, Did you playstation two person or were you?

Speaker 1 (19:17):
absolutely, absolutely I was yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Did you ever play the suffering?

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yes, fantastic game.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I loved that game and I played it and got every
ending, because you got theneutral ending, the bad ending
and the good ending, alldepending on how often you use
the.
Well, let's call it the Hulk.
He was a sort of a weird skintone, flesh tone Hulk.
But yeah, I loved that game andthat would be a great game,
remade, I think.

(19:44):
Suffering Ties, the Bind, thatwas disappointing, very
disappointing, because that wasjust Fight Club.
Yeah, I agree, it really was.
But yeah, the suffering I'dreally like to see remade.
I'd never really got into Halo.
I got Halo 3.
I enjoyed playing Halo 3, butthe thing that Do you know what?

(20:07):
The thing that I liked aboutHalo 3 more than anything was I
liked the being able to playback the mission and watch it
back and then move the cameraaround so you could actually see
the level played out from thebad guys' point of view, and
being able to pause it like, andyou could create these great
sort of shots and save them, andthat was a really cool thing.

(20:28):
I have not seen any game doanything like that since, where
you could play the level back.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, do you know what?
Think about it.
I can't actually think of asingle game that does that.
There's games where, obviously,you can take decent screenshots
, but nothing where you can playthe entirety of it.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
You can do selfies and play the level back and see,
because if there was a momentyou're like, oh, that was
brilliant, let's see it fromthis angle.
When you watch the whole levelthing, like this looks great,
it's like watching your ownmovie.
It's like you shoot a movie andthen watch it back.
That was so cool.
But yeah, I don't recall anyother game that's ever done that
, or at least talked about it,or it's been a big deal.

(21:05):
Maybe it uses too much memory,I don't know who cares, but I'm
trying to think now of whatother games came.
The God of War series willalways be particularly special
to me, though.
Oh, last Guardian, I need toadd Last Guardian.
Did you play Last Guardian?

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I did yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Were you annoyed with it because of the controls?
I know a lot of people werevery annoyed with it because of
the controls.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Initially, yes, but I think I just adapted myself to
it and then learned to enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
There was maybe two or three times I had to restart
the console because Trico wasn'tdoing what he was supposed to
be doing and I knew that that'swhat he was supposed to be doing
.
It was so obvious.
So you'd restart it and thenload it, and then he does the
thing that it was like okay,there was clearly something
glitching or a bug of some sort,you know.
So what happened was I'd beenplaying it and I got stuck at a

(22:01):
point and I looked up awalkthrough.
Yes, I look at walkthroughs.
I don't care, I'm the same.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
If I get really stuck , it's the only thing.
It's that, or YouTube videos.
I do the bit I'm stuck at itand then I go away.
I'm like right.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yes, yes, but what happened was I looked something
up for Last Guardian and when Ilooked at it I was like, oh,
there's only like three sectionsleft after this.
I'll probably be able tocomplete it tonight.
At this point it was midnight.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
I can see where this is going.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Cut to 5am and my girlfriend comes in from the
bedroom to the living room tosee me there and I'm just
looking at her going.
I know, okay, I know I need tofinish this.
I didn't have to be up the nextday, I didn't have to tell, it
was no big deal, but it was likeI know, I know I'm just going

(22:56):
to get this done, and I thinkmaybe it was a combination of
being tired and the journey andhaving played such a long
stretch of it, because it reallygets you in the heart, this
game.
It really gets you.
And then there's the bit Iwon't spoil it in case anyone's
listening that might want toplay it but there's a bit at the

(23:19):
end where you have to do acommand to do something, but
before that command, somethingin the background is happening.
That is really harrowing andhard to watch.
And I am not ashamed to say Ididn't just well up, I didn't
shed a tear, I ugly cried likeproper, like face wrenching,

(23:43):
like I was just distraught withwhat was going on.
But, as I said, I was also verytired.
But this point is about quarterto six in the morning and I'd
been playing it for about sevenhours straight at this point.
So I was like, oh my God.
But the thing was after.
It was like okay, it's all done.

(24:03):
I went onto YouTube and I'mlike I'm going to see other
people's reaction to the end ofthis game, and everyone was also
ugly crying.
It wasn't just me, okay, good,it wasn't just me, thank God.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
I am one of them.
This is good, I am human afterall.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
But still that there's not many games that like
I.
There's the bit in Shadow ofthe Colossus where aggro the
horse sort of falls down thatcliff and I remember being a
little bit emotional about it,but I didn't well up or cry or
anything like that, it was justactually I think I got more
emotional when aggro came backlimping and then I was like, oh

(24:43):
my God, it's okay, but there'sno other game that's really
given me that much of anemotional reaction.
As to that one, I think I don'tknow the Darkness.
That was a good game, theDarkness.
I liked the Darkness.
That had some emotional beatsin it as well.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Oh, my God, the bit when you see your girlfriend
being killed.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
My God.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
I remember my friend being like you might want to
brace yourself for this becauseit's pretty intense, and I was
like I've seen some of thecomics, I know what to expect.
Oh no, I was not ready for that.
I was like what?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
I mean, I loved it as a game.
I did try and replay itrecently on the PlayStation now
stuff, but it doesn't hold up aswell as I'd have liked it to,
unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
I must say the second one's actually not too bad.
It did take me a bit of fingerpoking to get it running through
steam because obviously oldtech versus new tech and it kind
of just was like I don't knowwhat to do, so I kind of poked
it with a stick and eventuallyit worked.
Yeah, it's graphically obviouslybetter.
Obviously it's not as advancedas modern titles, but I think in

(25:55):
terms of the gameplay and ifyou've not played any of the
previous games, you can stillenjoy it for the I don't want to
say basic game, but I guess inmodern terms, the variety of the
gameplay to have that darknesselement, so you've got to make
sure you turn out the lights,and then there's one eats hearts
and this one does this, andthis one opens a black hole and
there's, like it was, aninteresting.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
they gave you a variety of ways of disposing of
enemies, which was which wasgreat, which is another reason
why I like the Guardians of theGalaxy game, because you had a
big variety in one.
You had a big variety ofenemies and then a variety of
ways of disposing of them, andthat's, I think that's what's
important in games.
It's not.
That's why I don't often play alot of the Call of Duty and

(26:38):
modern warfare stuff, becauseit's just guns.
It's just guns and grenades.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
I must say I was very much in that way.
I think, because you touched onHalo I used to I mean, I loved
Halo 2 all the way up to reach.
It was the last one I playedyeah, and a lot of it was down
to the multiplayer, because themultiplayer was just fantastic
in those games.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
And then kind of moved on to the battlefields and
cards and stuff.
And the problem was is as muchas I was playing with friends,
the novelty wore off incrediblyquickly, incredibly quickly, and
I just got bored with it.
It was like, oh, we've had tolike be incredibly, like
controversial to make people beaware of our game.

(27:27):
You know the shoot out in theairport.
You just mow people down themlike if you have to turn to
controversy to try and make yourgame good, that's a big warning
sign.
And the problem is, is everyone of those games yeah, okay,
there's memeable bits in thosegames and stuff like that but
the actual core component ofthose games not that great?

(27:47):
You know, warzone was a hugehit during lockdown because
there was nothing else reallyout at the time and I think
everybody jumped on it no punintended for a bit, but even so,
you know that level ofcommitment to play.
I mean, you saw this huge spikeand then just slowly take it

(28:09):
off until it.
Just I'm sure there are peopleare still playing it, but I'm
sure it's nowhere near as muchas it was pre pandemic.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, I remember getting called duty to on 360.
The reason why I bought thatwas because some friends had it
and I won a game of poker and Ijust thought I'm going to use
this money to buy.
Call a duty to.
Why not?
Why not?
It's not my money, it's theirmoney.
That I just fantastic and andand that was good and it was

(28:40):
sort of my first sort of properforay into first person shooter
because I wasn't really a FPSkind of guy.
And then again a group ofpeople who I'd hang out with and
and you know, wasted with.
We would, we would, we wouldplay the zombie levels in.

(29:02):
I can't remember which one itwas, but the zombie levels were
great fun, like you just have todo wave after wave after wave.
That was called of duty blackblack ops.
Maybe it was the.
It was one of the earlier onewarfare.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
possibly it wasn't a warfare?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
No, because it was still World War Two.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
It was still World War Two, so I think it might
have been three, it might havebeen three, and it was just like
a couple is one where you'rejust in a shack and you just
take waves after wave and theneventually you have to go
upstairs and take wave afterwave and it was just how far can
you get?
How far can you get?
And we had full on strategiesand it was great Like.
And it was like Okay, now we'llget this and we get enough

(29:40):
money to get this gun.
We have to make sure we getthat gun and we just had these
great strategies and thatelement was fun.
I'm not much these days of amultiplayer person.
I don't.
I like my single playerimmersion kind of thing.
It's the only game I really,really enjoy these days and I

(30:03):
say these days like it's an oldgame.
It's about five years old now.
I guess.
Star Trek Bridge Crew is such agreat multiplayer game.
Obviously it's better if you'reall into Star Trek, but because
then it will make sense, thenyou know your roles and, as it
turns out, I would not be a goodcaptain.

(30:23):
And oh no, no, I admitted itand I was.
There's this one of my favoriteclips of being on Twitch is
just like guys, I don't think Ilike being captain.
There was like no, we don'tlike that either.
Just after we said it is like Idon't think you're a good
captain either side, and then afriend goes We've just lost
shields.
It was like oh no, we're aboutto die.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
It's all gone wrong.
It's fine.
We've accepted defeat, now Justlet it happen.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's fun so so, yeah, that's the only right real
multiplayer game I'll play.
You know, jagbox is fun, butit's not really.
It's not really.
It's a good game to play withyour viewers on Twitch, but yeah
.
Yeah, I'm trying desperately tothink of all the games, because
my first console was the Atari2600.

(31:16):
That was that was, that waswhat started it.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
all bit of sense peed , but sense peed and dig dug
which, which 2600 that you have,that you have the wooden one,
or the more the wooden one, thewooden one with the joystick and
the orange button.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
So that was.
It was like centipede dig dugand the terrible, terrible
ghostbusters game and that wassort of it.
Then I had the Nez, and I lovethe Nez.
Listen, listen, I'm not.
I know this is going to be sortof having to sort of make

(31:52):
excuses for myself.
I know I grew up in a time likewhere not everyone was able to
have all of these things.
That's one of the things I canthank my dad for, because there
were times where I had the Nez,I had the Super Nez and I had
the Mega Drive, and then I meanactually that that was sort of
it.
But being able to have the SuperNez, and the time was like sort

(32:16):
of an unheard of thing.
At the time I had the SuperScope.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I actually got one of those bots somewhere up here,
so it's probably worth quite abit as well.
Well, I mean to be honest, itwas shit, but it was
disappointing.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
The gun though.
The gun I didn't like.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, I think the problem was is it was just it
was just overly complicated.
I mean, I remember I didn'thave the Super Scope like from I
guess what would be class.
That's new.
So I remember getting it andbeing super excited and I
remember setting the whole thingup and about 10 minutes into it
going it's not as good as Ithought it was going to be.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
No, exactly, some of those, some of the levels
weren't, weren't like not levels, but that they never really
made good games for it, whichwas a shame.
It did work, but it was likeshoot the fireworks.
Great, great, this is the bestyou could come up with shoot
fireworks.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Guys, guys, we need to, we need a story for this.
Bazooka tanks, no Rockets, nofireworks.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Now you're on to summit.
There we go.
We'll take that.
The graphics aren't good enoughfor this at the time.
Really they're not.
They're really not good enough.
And then so the Super, theSupernails.
I played, you know, the Aladdingame.
I liked movie tie in stuff.
So I had the Aladdin game,alien three, the game which was,
which was nothing like theactual story of the film, but it

(33:38):
was it was.
I never really made it past thefirst two levels.
I always that's, that's whatwould happen every time Do you
know why?

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I saw this on a video recently, I think it was.
I think a guy was actuallygoing through.
I think it was all of the aliengames who had gone back through
, like spectrum games, wherethere was actually a really what
back then it would be deemedquite a terrifying version of
aliens, even though it was on aspectrum.
But yeah, that particular aliengame going well, I've only seen

(34:08):
the first level because Icouldn't get any further.
And then I looked at awalkthrough and I still didn't
get any further.
So let's move on to the nextalien.
Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the onlyone.
That makes me feel a little bithappier about life.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
It was hard.
But the thing was, though, atthe same time it's like I loved,
like the Sonic the Hedgehoggames, but I've never been able
to complete them without doinglike the level select cheat
Apart from Sonic 2, like I gotthat Christmas and on Boxing Day
I made it to the Death Egg Zone.
I didn't complete it, wow, butI made it to the like.
I was a dedicated Sonic theHedgehog player.

(34:42):
I love Sonic the Hedgehog and Ilike Sonic and Knuckles.
Like that was just one of like,because that felt like it was
really building up to something.
Like it just there was no realstory, but you got the sense
that there was something goingon.
But also the manuals, whichthey don't do now, but the

(35:04):
manuals helped fill in the gapsof the story.
So that was always somethingreally, really cool.
But my biggest problem withplaying all of those old, old
games like Alien 3 and the Sonicthe Hedgehogs and the Marios
and all of those games, mybiggest problem is, I realized
later in life I've been playingthem completely wrong, because
in my head what you had to dowas kill every enemy on the

(35:29):
screen.
It never crossed my mind thatall you needed to do is just go
from left to right and just getto the end.
I thought the whole point ofthem being there was to kill
them all.
So I'd spend, I would spendtime doing that.
So that's why, like Alien 3 thegame, I'd try and find the
aliens, to kill them as well asrescuing the others.

(35:49):
I didn't think that you'd justrun away from things, like it
never crossed my mind.
I thought that was not thepoint of the game.
Well, I put the bad guys there.
I've just got to go from oneplace to another if there's not
the obstacles in between to takeout.
So it wasn't like when I waswatching things back going oh, I

(36:09):
have been playing video gamescompletely, completely wrong and
I felt stupid.
I felt really stupid.
So, like now, I recently justplayed and I'd never played it
when it came out the Last of UsGreat game.
Great game.

(36:30):
Had it not been for lots ofstealth in like the Batman and
Spider-Man games of late andI've got Twitch viewers who
encourage me to do more stealthI barely killed anything in the
Last of Us.
I mean, I killed, and there'ssome sections you have to, you
have to.
But that last level, whenyou're going through the tunnel

(36:51):
and there's like three or fourbloaters, I stealthed.
That whole thing, didn't haveone encounter with a bloater.
I snuck past every single oneof them and I was pretty proud
of myself and was like so thisis how you play video games, ok,
ok.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
I think my old-school mentality of just running guns
sometimes gets me into moretrouble than I would like to
admit, because I've done lots ofstreams where I've been like,
yeah, I can just go into thisroom and shoot everything.
Oh, you died.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, it's like, will you use that same?

Speaker 1 (37:21):
strategy again.
Oh, I've died again.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Maybe this is not the strategy I need to go for it's
the same Batman where it's like,ok, I've done stealth and I get
bored.
I'm like, ok, I've stealth,killed like three people, now
can I?
I'm just gonna, you know, I'mjust gonna go for it.
And oh no, they got guns and Idid.
Ok, yeah, all of that again.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I had that exact same thing the first time, but I
think it was Arkham City orArkham Knight, I can't remember.
Now, the first time you meetguys with guns, I'm thinking I'm
Batman, I'm gonna do nothing.
Bang oh, oh, bullets, do killit.
Now I learn.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Very quick, and in Spider-Man as well, it's like oh
Christ, it's just very, veryquick deaths.
And don't get me wrong, Iunderstand it's realistic.
Sure it's realistic, fine fine,but it's not fun.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
No, exactly, exactly.
I mean, you watch films andstuff and you see like bullets
being shot at Batman, they'repinging off him.
You're thinking ha-ha, noproblem oh no, he's dead.
Oh, but yeah, they're going forheadshots, not body shots.
This isn't what was in thescript, you liars.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, and it's always the things that always annoyed
me in video games, like in Sonicand Mario and all that.
It's like when Like a sectionof a bad guy touches you and you
die when you move your ringsand all that, but you're just
like that's a piece of theirhair or that's like the side of
their shirt.
How does touching their shirtkill me, for whatever reason?

(38:55):
How does that?
That makes no sense to me.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
The guy who was the guy who was carrying that was an
absolute bastard.
He was like what's the hitboxgoing to be?
Everything, everything,everything.
How are they?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
She likes this.
Everything, every pixel, right.
If the edge of, if the rim ofhis glasses, if the bad guy with
glasses, if the rim of theirglasses touches you, that's it,
it's over.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
If he breathes everything like OK, fine, yeah,
I'm trying to remember a game Iplayed recently.
That was like that.
It was definitely somethingthat we streamed.
It was one of the rare timeswhen I nearly Ducktales was like
that.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Ducktales was like that.
Oh my God, yes, Bad guys likethat.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Oh, it was like oh, I've hit Noah Heaven.
Oh, they've killed me on that.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, yeah, wow, I mean Ducktales one of the best
games and one of the mostconsistent things that was
ported.
Like cos, you played the GameBoy version of Ducktales.
It was the same as the NESversion.
Agreed, it was exactly the same.
And that was another one ofthose rare things that never
happened.
Like cos, yeah, I had the GameBoy.
I loved the Game Boy SuperMario World.

(40:00):
When I completed that and thatwas without level select, I did
complete that.
That felt like a full-onachievement.
Completing, like that fuckingairplane level was awful, but,
but I did it.
And, like, wario Land was agreat game.
Being able to save on a GameBoy, what a novel feature.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
I remember getting was it Six Golden Coins?
The Mario Game, super MarioWorld 2?
Yes, and that save feature blewmy little brain apart.
I was like what I don't have tolike indefinitely pause this
game and hope that the batterieslast.
This is amazing.
And then it had like threedifferent save areas.
I was like hang on, I can havethree individual saving areas.

(40:41):
What?

Speaker 2 (40:42):
is this about?
Yeah, it was incredible.
What other Game Boy games did Iplay?
Well, obviously Tetris, becausewho didn't?
Er?
Oh, I had the AmazingSpider-Man.
That was a good little Game Boygame that was fun.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
I liked that was the.
Let me just remember, it waslike the quarter-sized screen of
Spider-Man where you couldswing and I think in between it
had like little comic stripsexplaining the story.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Kind of Well, the one that I had.
It was you could swing, butyou'd use up your web if you did
that was it yeah?
And the first level wasMysterio.
So you'd like fight people inthe street and there'd be people
throwing stuff out of a windowand all of that.
You'd fight Mysterio.
The Mysterio would disappear.
Then the second level wasclimbing a building.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yes, and then there'll be barrels.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
all yeah, barrels will be dropping and then you
get to the top and then it waschasing the green goblin over
the rooftops and then after thatlevel it was fighting Venom on
top of a train.
Er, and that was, I think, asfar as I ever got, was Venom on
the train.
I don't think I ever got as faras that.
I think Venom always killed me.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
That brought back some memories, christ up at
Farty, many hours and time intothat game.
But that was the thing like andI've always said this.
Like you know, games back thencost a fair whack, you know.
I mean, I always go back to thefact that, ironically, the year
I went on Games World, my dadbought me NBA Jam, which I ended

(42:15):
up playing on the series, ohwell, and I've left the sticker
on there because he got it fromBlockbuster Video and he's got a
59.99 sticker on it.
Yeah, exactly, which back thenwas a lot.
Yeah, and I've left it on thereas a point to remind myself of,
a, how much these things cost,and B, obviously you know my
parents spent a lot on me, soit's always a reminder.

(42:36):
But the thing is like I can pickthat game up right now and play
it and still have the samelevel of enjoyment then as I did
now.
And you know, I think games,especially in the last three to
four years, the costs havestarted to go back to those
levels with the justification oflarger game sizes and stuff.

(42:57):
But again, the fundamentalproblem that I find is you'll
get a title, you'll finish itand that's it.
There's absolutely zero replayvalue in a lot of the titles
that come out, which is fine ifit's a longer game.
I think that's fine if you wantto go back and redo it, but
there's just something aboutthat niche of old games where

(43:18):
you can just pick it up and playand enjoy it exactly the same
way as you did back then.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Part of me agrees.
Another part of me is like I'mold now and my reaction times
are not what they were.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Agreed.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
And I have you know I can't always defeat Bowser at
the end.
You know, the Princess may bein another castle, but I'm dead,
so she can just wait, that'sthe thing.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
I'll be back in a bit .
Love you, look after Bowser fora bit.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
So yeah that's.
I do enjoy the retro stuff, butI don't think I could ever
complete it.
Another game series that Inever mastered, like I was just
the worst at it and I wanted tobe good at it.
I was all right.
I was better at the Game Boythan any of the other versions.
But Mega man, they were so hard, those Mega man games.
I was better at the Game Boythan I was in anything else.

(44:10):
But I recently tried to playlike Mega man X and I was like
nope, after 10 minutes, just no,this is too hard, just can't do
it.
I don't have the reflexes 100%agree.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
It's been one of those series Like I had friends
who would obsess about it.
And the thing is it's like Ijoined the bandwagon I was like,
yeah, mega Man's great and Iremember playing it, going I'm
just not good enough for thisgame.
Like I'm just not good enoughfor this game.
And I remember even going backto the NES ones and being like
how did anyone get past like anylevel in this game?

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Like instant reactions of trying to yeah, the
levels themselves, let alonethe bosses like the levels
themselves, were ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Absolutely Insanity.
And the problem is is when Istream, if I plug in a you know
a particular console orsomething, or if I'm not using
one of my many retro devices,whether it's the MISTER or the
Raspberry Pi there's still thatadded bit of lag put in.
So if you're trying to play agame like Mega man, just with
that added bit of lag and slowreflexes is a pure recipe for

(45:15):
disaster.
Yeah, wait, that happened.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I've got the recall box.
This is what I've got.
It's like, it's like some of my20,000 games on it.
It's just amazing.
But the thing that I love aboutit, it's got arcade games.
Yeah, so I was able, becauseyou don't have to put coins in,
so I can always play thatTurtles arcade game and make it
to the end and I don't have toworry about the coins.
Although, although saying that,where we used to me and my

(45:42):
family, we used to holiday inthis area of Spain and they had
a Turtles arcade machine, niceand but we found a glitch in
this particular machine where ifyou put your finger in the coin
where the coins get returnedinto the change slot, if you hit
it, it somehow counted asputting coins in.

(46:02):
So we would just put in like 30quids worth of coins and just
play it.
So I actually completed that onan arcade, but then the owners
of the establishment found outabout it and unplugged the
machine.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
No way.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, well, because we were there for hours and they
were like, wow, we're makingloads of money.
They made nothing.
They made absolutely nothing.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I can just imagine how gutted the guy is like aha,
these kids.
They've been on this for hours.
What.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yep, not a single penny.
That's brilliant.
Now I'm going to mentionsomething because I'm not going
to like shout his name outbecause I don't want him to get
in trouble.
But one of my viewers issomeone who works for Sony
Creative and he did twice.
Now he did something wonderfulfor me.

(46:50):
He knows how much I loved likethe God of War series and all of
that and he worked on thingslike.
He worked on like the art forthe health bars and stuff like
that.
Wow, and this is the thing Iwanted to sort of mention like
back in the day, maybe teamsworking on games they weren't
huge, there'd probably be maybeten people working on like one
game.
Now you know you've got severalart departments.

(47:13):
Like you've got a departmentthat's just doing like the
health bars, another one that'sjust doing the weapons, another
one's character design, butsometimes different people will
do different character designsand they've got to somehow then
communicate with each other likesame with costume designs and
well-set designs, music design,all of this stuff.
And this is why, look, Iunderstand why games are 70, 80

(47:34):
quid.
This is a lot of work.
They look like movies, theylook amazing.
There's a lot of work that goesinto it.
They're not cheap.
They're not cheap to make,there's a lot of labour and yeah
, so the fact that he worked onthis sort of thing and he came
onto my stream during Christmastime, I was like I'm surprised
you're not playing God of War,because what I was doing at the

(47:55):
time was 100%ing the Arkhamseries again, right, and I was
like, listen, I thought I'd bedone by now.
I was like I thought I'd bedone by now.
So I'm doing this and then I'mtaking a break for Christmas and
then in January I'm going toget God of War, ragnarok, as a
treat to myself.
About five minutes after I saidthat on stream, he sends me the

(48:17):
code and just goes here, go haveGod of War right there.
Oh, wow, I was like, thank youso much.
You just, how old, neaved me 70pounds, thank you so much.
And then, when the last of usthing was, we're talking about
the TV series and I was saying Idon't know whether to get the
remastered version or just anormal version.
I want the remastered versionbecause it's remastered and it
will look better, but it is moreexpensive than the other one.

(48:39):
And then he just sends me acode and goes here, here you go,
have the remastered one, wow.
And it's like thank you so much, can I have you?
Just basically just choose whatI play on my streams, just send
me codes, because he also sentme Ratchet and Clank, the
multi-verse one.
I forgot what it's called.
I forgot what it's called,anyway, because he was really

(49:04):
just saying, like you've got aPS5, now this is the
best-looking game with a PS5.
And he wasn't wrong.
It was a beautiful-looking game, but I played it for about an
hour and went.
I'm not the target audience forthis.
This is a children's game.
Sure, this is.
And don't get me wrong, I'm notabove playing children's games.
You know, the other day I satdown and watched DC Super League
of Pets just because I thoughtyeah, let's, why not?

(49:27):
I'm fine with watching kids'films.
You know because sometimesthey're quite funny.
But Ratchet and Clank, I waslike, yeah, this is a kids' game
.
So, and plus, also, the back ofmy head is like kids' games are
hard because kids, as I said,they have better reaction times.
They have much better reactiontimes.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Do you know what there was?
What was it?
I want to say it was one of theLEGO Star Wars games, Something
like that, and I was justgetting massacred at it and
somebody was like oh, you needto react quicker.
I'm like what You're sayingbecause I'm old.
This is the downfall of me in aLEGO game.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
I had the same thing with an Avengers LEGO game and
it was like I was fine, fine,fine.
And then all of a sudden thedifficulty curve.
It's not really a curve, it'sjust a wall, it's just.
It's like oh, now it'simpossible.
And it brings back to theoriginal point of If it's not
fun, why bother?
I understand make thingschallenging, but if it's not fun

(50:31):
, why bother?
I loved the concept of alienisolation.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Loved the concept of it, but if I have to play for
two hours, then unfortunatelydie and because I didn't get to
a save point, I have to do thosetwo hours again, that's not fun
.
Yeah, it's not fun.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I agree with that.
I've never agreed with hardsave points.
I think we live in a worldwhere pass codes are a thing of
the past.
But even that would allow youto at least skip back to where
you were.
And a lot of people are like,oh, I don't like quick saves,
well, save yourself.
But yeah, I agree Having thosemoments where you're thinking,

(51:13):
crap, I've got to now replaythat entire portion, and this
happened to me a few times onstream where I'm like, oh, I've
died.
And then the game's like ha,remember that entire point that
you've just streamed.
Well, tough luck, you've got todo it all over again.
Oh, great.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
I can't be dealing with that.
And also at the time, do youhave PlayStation 5?
I do, yeah, did you have or doyou still have a problem with
Drift on the controls?

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Do you know what?
I've never had it, never had it.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I had it really, really badly playing Alien
Isolation.
It was one of the reasons why Istopped playing it.
There was a section.
There was a section I saw analien dropping down from the
ceiling.
I ducked, I crawled under atable, slash gurney, and I was
like, ok, I'm fine.
And then I stopped moving.
But the control kept on walking.

(52:08):
And there I go, just standingup in front of the alien, and I
was like that was not my fault,it really annoyed me.
So now when I stream and I playwith the PlayStation, I just
Because I've done all theupdates and all of that sort of
stuff I even have twocontrollers now Both controllers

(52:28):
were doing it, so now it'shard-wired in.
Apparently, what it might beand it's just to do with the way
I stream is because when Istream I've got Essentially I've
got two MacBooks and an iPadand my phone and there's all
this Bluetooth going on becauseI've got the Bluetooth keyboard,
bluetooth mouse, so apparentlyit's an interference thing with

(52:53):
that, and because I'm surroundedby other Bluetooth devices,
there's nothing I can do aboutthat.
So well, I can hard-wireeverything in, but unfortunately
MacBooks just don't have enoughports to plug everything in.
They just don't, and hubs arevery expensive if you want good
hubs.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
I agree, I love Apple , I like their products.
But when it comes to thingslike that, when they're like hey
, be really creative, doeverything you want, okay, so
well, oh okay, so I need aBluetooth that, and then they're
okay.
So I need a Bluetooth that andthen the.
Okay, so that's going to run onBluetooth.
What if I want to just plugthis in oh well, you've got to

(53:34):
buy that hub, sir.
Oh right, how much is that?
Well, it could be anywherebetween 150 to 200 quid and some
more.
Oh, to plug in a USB stick.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
It's a really unexciting purchase as well.
A USB hub, it's like.
It's like you're going to spend200 pounds on a USB hub.
It's the sexiest USB hub youever did see.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
It's funny where I work and I'll tell you where I
work off string because I don'twant anyone knowing, but for
obvious reasons that will comeapparent after we come up for
the air.
It's only for yeah, it's onlyfans.
Yes, yeah, you can sign up tothat.
I'll give you a discount code.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Oh yeah, that's all I was about to say.
Hold on.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Well, you've been waiting 30 years for it.
So Exactly, oh no.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Definitely waiting until you're older than 18,
that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Oh Christ.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
You were 12 when we met, weren't you?

Speaker 1 (54:29):
That took a hard left turn.
It was nine actually, so itdidn't work.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
You were nine Wow we need to.
After your point now we'll havea chat about the actual day of
Games World.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
I've actually just forgotten what the point was I
was going to make now.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
It was about Apple products.
Oh, that was it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Ah, that was it.
So at work they've now goneaway from Macs, but the entire
department bought thesebrand-new MacBook Pros with the
touch bar and all this stuff andthey've got external drives and
things that they plug in andvideo equipment and everything
like that.
And I remember the creativedirector just going fuck really

(55:08):
loud in the office and I waslike what?
And he was like we've justspent £12,000 and I can't plug
in this USB hub.
So the next day he had toliterally walk over to the IT
guy going so you know, we justspend all this money.
Well, we need to buy some hubs.
And they bought these likemassive hubs and they were the

(55:30):
most ugliest things I've everseen.
You know, I can describe itlike.
It looked like a vertical conchshell with just cables that
came out of it and I was likethat is one of the most
disgusting products we've everseen.
They were like this is the onlyone that works at the rate that
we need to transfer files at.
And I was like how much didthat cost?

(55:50):
And they were like oh, therewere about £150 each.
There's 12 people in thatdepartment, wow, wow.
So, yeah, that was fun.
And then a year later they werelike, yeah, I'm getting rid of
Max now I'm having winnersinstead.
It was like what so?

Speaker 2 (56:07):
the thing with Max, though.
They do last.
You know, touch wood when I saythat, but they do last.
I've got one here that I'vebeen using for about 10, 12
years, something like that.
It's ridiculous.
So you get what you pay for.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
I agree, I think the build quality of late has been
very poor with regards to thelaptops, but I think the era
between, I'm going to say, 2010to probably 2015 was probably
the glory days of those laptopsand jobs was actually still
alive.
Yeah, exactly, and the thing isis when you you see people take

(56:45):
those apart, if you take yoursapart, you see, even the screws
are not more than the thread.
It's just enough thread totighten it up, that it just
closes it enough, and all thecabling is is just enough to fit
into there.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
And it's all meticulously done and well,
here's another thing that'squite fun on one of the old when
they did like the black Macbooks and things like that.
So there was a couple of screwsthat were in the side of it
that didn't hold anything in.
There was no purpose.
The only reason why thosescrews were there was because
there were screws on the otherside and they wanted it to be
symmetrical.
They had no other purpose.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
We're doing this, there we go.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
That's best.
He's got to do something withhim.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Can you imagine the port in terms like when does
this go in there?
What does it do?
Nothing Brilliant.
So, yes, well it's.
I mean, I'm still.
I've had so many WTF moments.
I mean, first of all, learningwho your father is, which is

(57:53):
blowing, and then obviously it'sbeen so long and out of
interest how many nine you were,nine I was.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
I must have been 12.
What year was?

Speaker 1 (58:02):
it again Nine.
Well, it's funny enough.
I was having this discussionwith my mum, I think it was 93
going into 94.
So I think from 11.
So I think it was filmed at theback end of 93, because I
remember it being winter and itbeing really effing cold, and

(58:23):
then I think it got broadcast.
I want to say it was like fourmonths later and then the rest
of the shows that I worked wason further than went into the
rest of 1994.
So yeah, it all kind of startedin 93.
Yeah, it's even looking back atsome of the footage and now
it's just it's so funny becausepeople are like, oh wow, that

(58:46):
studio must have been so big.
No, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
So so many TV shows that I've been.
I've been in audience forthings like QI and Penn and
Telepholis.
I've been in the audience forthose things and they are so
much smaller than you think andlike when you get there you're
like, oh my God, and it was likethat backstage area and again
we were freezing cold.
I remember being really cockybecause I was complaining about
being cold and one of therunners or producers working on

(59:13):
the show was just like, do youwant to wear the championship
jacket?
And I was just like, no, I'llwear it when I win.
But it was, it was fine.
Like the thing is, because I'vegot clips from it, because
basically the video you uploadedto YouTube, I've downloaded it.

(59:34):
I played it on Twitch.
I played it without tellinganyone that it was, because I
was just like look at this 90show, look at this, and oh there
, I am, there you go.
And it was so it's.
And then, because there aresome fun clips for me in there,
like I love the bit where youhear the guy going like Matthew
wins.
And I'm like, yes, that's aclip on Twitch, they can do that

(59:54):
.
There's me to try to do likeproper, like shit talking, just
like he's got two chances slimand none.
I'm just like this little shitand I was wearing the backwards
baseball cap and, oh God, whatan absolute nerd.

(01:00:16):
I mean, we all had to wear thebackwards baseball cap, didn't
we?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Do you know what?
I don't really want to talkbadly about him, but I've always
had a how can I word thiswithout it being controversial a
skewed view of Dave Perry, andeven from the time when I met
him at Games World, there is onething that stuck out in my mind
, and I don't know if youremember we were in the area

(01:00:41):
that was meant to be the pit,when we were all sat in the
chairs and he kind of feel hewas filming walking back and
forth.
I remember he walked past Iwasn't exactly a big kid by then
.
I made up for it now.
I wasn't a big kid back thenand I remember he trod on my
foot and I was like I could saysomething.
But I'm like, well, he's DavePerry, it'd be a bit bad.

(01:01:01):
And he just called off whatpast me and was like, did you
try to trip me up?
And I'm like, and it was kindof ironic that he had the whole
debacle with Games Master andeverything else, because then I
thought calm as a bitch in it,son.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
That came first thing like he really did not take
that prank.
Well, like it was, like it wasa prank dude, it was a prank
Right, just let it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Let it go and ironically, I was on a podcast
with with him and Rick and a fewothers, not not that long ago.
Actually, it was just beforethe turn of the year and my
opinion of him still hasn'tchanged, so yeah, I was in the
audience for a Games Masterepisode once.
Oh really.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, the one where they filmed them at the prison.
It was a Dexter Fletcher series, right, but it was.
I remember the guest was.
What was her name?
Moni Love, I think, was themusic guest at the time.
I remember the first like halfof the day because they wouldn't
let us go to the toilet, and Iwas desperate.
Desperate to go to the toiletbecause they'd done this thing,

(01:02:05):
that it made sure that all of uswear white T shirt and blue
jeans because they wantedeveryone to look like prisoners,
because that was, it was filmedin a prison.
That was.
That was actually was like anold prison.
Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I wasjust just being desperate for
the loan, just the relief ofjust like, can we finish the
filming so that we can go to thetoilet.

(01:02:28):
And now, what was the game?
That was my first time reallyseeing cool spots being played,
nice, so that was it.
That was.
That was an interesting productplacement of a game, wasn't it?
But the, the filming of.
I remember being freezing coldduring when we did Games World

(01:02:48):
and I remember being really putout by the fact that they made
everyone film there.
Yeah, I'm going to win afterwe'd already lost.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yes, you're absolutely correct.
I remember that because theywere like oh yeah, you've got to
say this, this and this, andI'm in the back of mind, I'm
thinking what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
I know that our TV shows are made because you know,
listen.
You know my dad is like I grewup learning about that thing in
order.
That's fine, but in this case,where you've got children who
are already now, at this point,been demoralized not all
children are actors, for cryingout loud.
You're making them pretend thatthey're to say I'm going to win,

(01:03:35):
I'm the best, when they know intheir heart they have already
lost.
It was, that was, it was athing that kind of tarnished my
actual experience of the wholething, because I felt a bit used
at that point.
You know it was, it was, it was.
That was the only thing.
The rest of it you know, and wecan talk about the fact that

(01:03:56):
you know, at the time now Idon't care, but at the time,
that whole thing because I lost,I lost to a girl Now I don't
care, I really don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
I won the first get thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
I won the first thing .
It was a penalty shootout.
I won that I won that, but itwas during the game it was it
and it in the end ended up beingbetween me and her, gemma, I
think it was yeah, and I gavethe, the, the, the virus to her

(01:04:31):
and then, like the last threeseconds, gave it to me and then
that was it and I was gone.
It was.
It was kind of devastatingbecause it was just like that,
that last three seconds, and Ijust remember standing there
like no, no, this is, this isthe game that beat me.
Was it the game that no one hadever played before?

(01:04:51):
Because it was a worldexclusive, because it was no?
Did they ever release that game?

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I don't think so.
Do you know what I'd actuallylike to speak to to Alex,
because I think he's still gotcontacts from Hewland
International?
Someone must have a copy,because I think, if I remember
correctly, games like cash dashit and I think the snipers alley
the game with the bullet.
At the end you had to shoot.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
I'm sure they were made on the Amiga and obviously
if there is one then I couldprobably replay them now.
Someone out there must have acopy of those must be one
kicking around some.
Agreed, agreed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Because also, it's, it's, it's.
It's just a really easy onlinegame.
It could be done on your mobile.
No, it could be like among us.
It remastered.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
There you go.
There you go.
Hewland International, get onit.
Keep us in copyright here, but,as I said, there are certain,
there are certain snapshots thatI remember from especially that
particular day games world, andI remember, after I'd got the
jacket, sorry to rub it in theover it now, well, well, if I

(01:06:07):
meet you in Chiswick I'll bringit down and you can wear it
there you go, I'll host thenight wearing it.
Now, that would be brilliant.
So I remember get obviouslywearing the jacket and it was so
dumb because, like, they put iton your shoulders and you had
to turn on the spot.

(01:06:27):
I did that five times.
They're like oh, you didn't youturn too quick.
Oh, you turn too suddenly it'sa fucking code.
Everybody seen it.
What difference does it matter?
Yeah, so after doing that, Iremember we went back up to the
production room and everyone waslike oh, so great.
And then they were like can wehave the coat back?
And I'm like what?
They were like we've only gotone.

(01:06:49):
What do you mean?
What do you mean?
You've only got one?
They were like well, we've gotothers on order, this is the
only one we need.
And I was, and my mom.
I remember my mom was like he'staking it and he's taking it to
school and he's showing all ofhis friends.
And they were like well, aslong as you can promise to bring
it back, then we'll let it go.
And it was like trust me, thisthing is not coming off my

(01:07:09):
shoulders.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Yeah, oh God, yeah, yeah, I understand their
mentality Absolutely.
You get that Like I imagine,obviously.
Yeah, I can imagine being a kidat the time.
I don't know how I would havereacted if I was told that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Do you remember this thing that you just want?
Yeah, fuck you, you can go andget some else.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
You peasant like, hang on a minute Did you just
basically do a sticky at schoolbecause it was during a school
week, did you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
know.
So what actually happened was.
The story is hilarious.
I think I actually uploaded avideo about it and obviously we
got.
Obviously we were meant to beat school and I was still in
primary school back then and Iremember my parents had to go

(01:07:54):
and speak to the headmaster likethis is a really weird
situation.
But they explained to me andthey were like, yeah, that's
totally cool, as long as when,if he comes back, we'll show it
at school.
If he comes back, if he comesback like I'm going to Vietnam
or something like that youweren't there, man.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
you weren't there, man.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
You weren't there.
Um, so, uh, so yeah, obviouslyI came back and, um, the ironic
thing was my dad was like I'vegot to take a day off work to
come and drive you all the wayto East London.
And then, obviously, once I won, he was like that's great son,
now I've got to take another dayoff work.
I'm like, oh, I'm so.
I'm so sorry, dad.
Um, so yeah, I remember goingback and I didn't tell anyone

(01:08:38):
what had happened.
They were like, all right, youmust have just got knocked out.
I didn't tell anybody and Iremember the night the episode
came out and literally going toschool the next day and everyone
was like what?
And I was like, yes, so yeah,it was, it was just a crazy,
crazy ride.
And then obviously to to playthe video is was just again.

(01:08:59):
It was just a very weirdexperience and, thinking back as
a a nine year old boy, to havethat level of pressure put on my
shoulders and it was, I mean,it really did get to me at one
point and I think the tippingpoint you've probably seen it
was um, or maybe you haven'tseen it was.
There's a point in uh, beat theelite when Violet Blade comes

(01:09:22):
out and assaults this guy with abaseball bat.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
They didn't tell me they were going to do that.
So so imagine, as a nine yearold kid, seeing a man dressed as
a pirate with a baseball batcome on stage.
Bob Mills pulls me in.
I'm like huh, seeing a big boy,barry, get smacked in the
stomach with his baseball back,and then frog marched off with
him and I'm just like that'sgoing to be that's going to be.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
some literally control me right there In 10
minutes just tears.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
And then everyone was like what's going on?
And I'm like, uh, he just gothit.
They were like, no, no, no,it's all pretend.
And then, like Rick Hendersonand Alex came out of Violet
Blade and big boy Barry and theywas like, oh, you're fine.
They were like, yeah, it wasall pretend.
I'm like why didn't you tell methat You're the mugs?
That's all you had to say yeah.
And I and from that moment onmy head was just obviously

(01:10:17):
completely, you know, completemess at that point.
But again, it's still greatmemories and it's nice to be
part of history.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
Yeah Well, I don't think the thing with games world
was at the time it was only onsky and not everyone had sky at
the time, so it wasn't reallycertainly at my school it wasn't
as as known a thing, and alsonot everyone was really that
into gaming at my school, so soso it was really just this very

(01:10:51):
sort of small but dedicated andlike enthusiastic community.
You know cause?
I loved all that stuff.
I used to buy all the gamingmagazines as well.
I remember what was the gamingmagazine, but every week was, or
every month, they would havefan art and basically the fan

(01:11:12):
art would base only be justreally horrific images of Mario
and Sonic maiming each other.
I can't remember what themagazine was.
Do you remember that at all, doyou?

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
remember.
Do you remember that?
I'm trying to remember, but nowyou said that it has brought
back a few memories of some ofthose.
I'm trying to remember what?

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
that's like Sonic the Hedgehog turning himself into a
saw blade and cutting offMario's head, and it was.
It was all pictures like that,but drawn with colored pencil,
so like crayon almost.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
I'm genuinely trying to remember what magazine that
would have been, so I'm justcast my mind back, because you
have things like Mean Machinesmagazine.
There would have been theofficial then 10 day magazine,
games Master obviously being oneas well.
Edge, I think, was around then.
Cool, I'm trying to remembersome of the others, but it just
it always, it always.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Just like that.
I sort of weirdly look forwardto seeing what horrible images
were in this week, but that wasthe thing.
So, like with Games World, likeyou were sort of part of this
community, but it was very, youknow, because no one really
talks about Games World anymoreit was very hard, excuse me, it

(01:12:24):
was very hard to find your video, but, oh man, you should have
seen my face.
When I found it, though, I wasstreaming on Twitch for a while
and I just forgot that I haddone it.
I had forgotten that I had beenon James Weld and then, while I
was streaming on Twitch, I wentoh yeah, I did that thing once.
I should probably look that upbecause it's quite relevant to

(01:12:47):
Twitch.
I should probably try and lookit up.
And it took about a couple ofdays worth of looking like,
because I couldn't remember theyear.
I obviously couldn't rememberthe episode, but the thumbnail.
I found the thumbnail and Irecognized your face.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
That little shit, I remember it Like well this has
got to be the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
So then when it eventually, when I saw it I
literally I was on my own.
It was like the middle of thenight and I was on my own in my
living room, but like fistpumping in the air, kind of like
, yes, here it is, my utterhumiliation on television.
What a weird thing to celebrate.
But here, we go.
So yeah, brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Yeah, it's funny because I've still got the video
footage and I was half temptedto actually see if I could
attempt to upscale it to 4k justto see what would happen and
then re-release the whole lot.
But I don't know, that's aproject for another day and
another time.
But yeah, it's still weirdsometimes even looking back and

(01:13:49):
remembering those days Becausenow it's so long ago, but some
of those memories are still sovivid and fresh in my mind.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
Oh yeah.
I remember, as I say, Iremember vividly how cold it was
.
I remember how nice thesoldiers were.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Yeah, they were awesome, they were so nice those
guys.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
They were really, especially looking back on it
and with my dad and being aperformer like myself I've done
acting and I've done that kindof thing where it's sort of
what's the word I'm looking for,it's sort of like roaming
performer at festivals and stufflike that.
I don't know if you've everdone that as a job.
I haven't.
You're in character and soyou're not being yourself, you

(01:14:41):
are being someone completelydifferent and that's sort of
what they're doing.
So when they're sort ofdropping character and just
being nice to you, and I'mrealising when I look back
they're just jobbing actors.
That's all they were.
It was just a great show thatthey put on.
You can't fault.
Yes, it was very 90s, but theymade this effort to make it have

(01:15:03):
this atmosphere and thischaracter.
I think they really because thegame's already used to be a bit
dry and that season where theymade it apocalyptic and all of
that they gave it some morecharacter.
Yeah, I agree it was reallycool.
I think they tried too hard bydoing like the big boy Barry
sitcom and stuff like that.
I think they tried to milksomething, which was a shame,

(01:15:27):
although it did introduce theworld, I think, to David
Walliams that is correct, 100%correct.
But I just I appreciate the factthat it existed because I don't
think like these days thereisn't really something on
television for gaming.
I don't, unless I it'ssomething that would be great

(01:15:48):
for Netflix or Amazon Prime orit's something like that.
But I'm not saying bring backGames World, I'm just saying I
guess YouTube and Twitch kind ofhave made it unnecessary.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
There's something about a TV production type event
around gaming.
You know even something whenyou think about EVO
championships, the fighting gametournaments in Las Vegas, like
watching those and even watchingdocumentaries about those, you
can't help but get caught up inthe hype.
You know, and I think that waskind of what the atmosphere was,

(01:16:26):
especially with Games World andGames Master.
I mean, I get people from allover the world come to some of
my streams and they're like wenever had anything like that in
our part of the world,especially in South America or
certain parts in Europe.
So we were incredibly lucky inthe UK to have, you know, shows
like Bad Influence came aroundas well.
So many other hugely influentialyou know kind of gaming related

(01:16:51):
or computer related things andI guess, realistically going all
the way back to probably thewhat?
Early or late 60s, early 70s,you have like the BBC movement
of getting people intoprogramming and getting
computers at home.
There would be a dedicated TVshow which I think is actually
in the BBC archives on iPlayer,where you can actually see like,
oh, here's how you own a BBCmicro, here is how you load a

(01:17:14):
disk, here is how you do stuff,and this was a broad a
broadcasted TV thing, so peoplewould actually sit down and
watch these things.
And then we've come all the wayto being able to click on
Twitch and watch someoneinstantly broadcast something
live, which is it's.
It's crazy.
But talking to Alex about hisintroduction to Games Master,

(01:17:37):
getting into Games World, as youmentioned, the spin-off series
working with David Walliams it'sjust if you drew a Venn diagram
, it would be endless, with justpeople being interconnected
with each other.
It's just the more people Italk to from either Games World
or Games Master, it just itmakes me so honored to even be

(01:18:00):
part of, I guess, gaming strokeTV history, but also just how
interconnected and how small theworld really is.
As you said, the entertainmentindustry.
You're never that far away fromsomeone else who's connected to
someone else, and that'scertainly how it was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
The cliche phrase of six degrees of Kevin Bacon, six
degrees of Big Boy Barry.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
That needs to be a T-shirt.
I'm going to speak to him andsee if we can get that.
Well, I mean one of the thingsthat Alex did mention.
Obviously we've had the revivalof Games Master.
Apparently they are looking atdoing a new series based on the
relative success of the trialperiod.
I said to him is there thepotential of a Games World

(01:18:48):
series?
And he said let's just say I'vepitched it and they've not shot
it down yet.
My win, I see.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Let me tell you a bit of 90s stuff that I've been
involved in over the years aswell.
I completely forgot about this.
Do you remember Nightmare?
Yes, side step left, side stepright, that sort of stuff.
I was involved in bringing itto live a few years back in 2013

(01:19:15):
.
Wow, 10 years ago now, jesus.
But yes, so I was working withthis double act, but then that
double act sort of broke up andthen I became part of that
double act, but I also startedworking with the other one, on
Nightmare, and I ended up doingthe music for Nightmare Live, as

(01:19:36):
it was called, and that was ano daunting task.
It was to be just like OK,recreate the theme to nightmare
Easy, that'll please everyone,that'll be easy to do.
A version that will pleaseabsolutely everybody knowing,
because at the time the internetexisted.
So I was like I know what theinternet's like.

(01:19:56):
And now Jesus, and there weresome comments were just like
well, it just sounds like MIDI.
And you're just like yes, I'dlove to be able to afford an
orchestra.
Thanks very much.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
And now on stage film mocking orchestra.
Come on down, Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
But so, yeah, I ended up doing some sound design and
music and then I was basicallythe sound engineer and lighting
technician for it for theEdinburgh Fringe in 2013.
And then we brought it toLondon and I was essentially
like technical director of butit was all sort of Paul
Flannery's like brainchild,because they wanted to do

(01:20:37):
Funhouse.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
They wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
Funhouse, but it would cost them like 100,000
pounds just for the rights.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
Or is that just for the twins?

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Who weren't actually twins.
No, they were, they were.
I think there was a room thatthey weren't actually twins but
they definitely were.
But the but with nightmares isa lovely story.
He emailed the creator ofnightmare and said I would like
to do this.
Can I get your blessing, and isit going to be okay to do it?
And the response he got fromthe creator of nightmare was

(01:21:10):
welcome to level one.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Wow, that's awesome that is awesome, so sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
I got to meet Tragar and it was cool.
It was a really cool time to beinvolved in that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
You mentioned about remakes.
I mean that is a perfectexample where I think if you go
with the right mentality and theright heart and the right
reason, the whole thing workstogether.
There's a lot of remakes thatare done for a quick cash grab
or just to hit the hype trainthat's going around at the point
.
But in that example I mean thatis a beautiful story of just

(01:21:52):
how passion and enthusiasm withthe original person I mean you
can ask for a better acceptance.
Yeah, agreed.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Yeah, there's a really what's the word?
I'm also blanking on the word,but it just was just a humble
response, just really just like.
It was almost like saying thankyou as well as getting
permission.
It was like thank you for doingit kind of thing, and it was
great and to be involved in that.
At the same time they did do aquick like few episodes of like

(01:22:23):
Nightmare, but with othercomedians like playing it as
well and having the originalTragar for that.
I don't think it did wellenough for it to like fully come
back.
Unfortunately, the stage showdid great.
The stage show toured and waslike selling out.
It was a great thing.
I just, as going back to thatpoint of I just would like to

(01:22:45):
see something like Games Worldagain, like competitive gaming
on television again in some wayor another.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
I pitched this idea to big boy Barry once and by the
time I'd finished his eyes litup like a Christmas tree and he
said there's any one problem,the budget and basically it was
gaming meets professionalwrestling.
So like the showmanship, thewhole performance, entrance
stuff of professional wrestlingmeeting professional gaming just

(01:23:17):
in an arena like the O2, withentrances and pyrotechnics or
anything, that would besomething like that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
I mean not entirely that, because it's a different
thing, but the part of yourconcept exists, but it's movie
trivia.
Yeah, it stops now.
Did you ever watch the movie?

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
trivia show now.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
Yeah, exactly that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
And I loved the movie trivish mode.
I stopped watching it duringpandemic because I couldn't be
bothered to watch any more zoomschats.
I couldn't watch the zoom chatsanymore.
I just got so done with zoomchats is like I've got to deal
with my own now I've got towatch other people.
Zoom chats no, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
The last thing I want to do is watch people do the
thing that I've been doing fortwo years Now.
You're okay.
So it's the person who'sfilming a podcast, but that's
fine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Hey, that was the one zoom chat that I, you know,
like doing, doing the podcast.
I'm glad with this because Idon't have to do any recording
or editing.
So I'm very happy with thisscenario right now.
But yeah, I got very done withthat.
But I like that idea.
I like because I don't watchwrestling anymore.

(01:24:21):
I've really done.
I used to love it and I got tosee it live a couple of times,
like I.
Actually I saw hacks or JimDuggan live once, which was,
which was really cool.
British Bulldog Hulk Hogan sawhim live, I think it was an L
was caught arena or somethinglike that, which was, which was
really really fun.
But I like the becausewrestling is so fake.

(01:24:42):
But when it's done sort of likefor comedy because I don't
think wrestling is really donefor comedy, sure, excuse me.
I think wrestling kind of isdone for comedy but it takes
itself kind of seriously as well.
It's Italy.
It tries to do somethingserious.
Fun fact do you know who theygot in once to help people with
their acting in wrestling?
Freddie Prinze Jr.

(01:25:03):
He worked for the WWE for alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Really, that's insane .

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
He's a big wrestling fan and worked for the WWE for a
bit to help with some of theirperformances.
He didn't laugh very long, it'slike six months.
He was like doing stuff forthem.
But yeah, freddie Prinze Jr wassort of behind the scenes and
WWE for a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
I just can't imagine him and Vince McMahon sat in the
same room.
That has brought my mind apart.
That is hilarious.
I mean I dabble, I guess, withmodern wrestling, but I've seen
a few moments where somethingthat's meant to be very serious,
where someone has saidsomething, the crowd has caught
wind of it and it has broken themoment, where just everybody is

(01:25:49):
dying and they're trying tohide the laughter.
But it's made the whole thingso much better that it was meant
to have been and it was just.
And again it's that comedy,deliverance of when it's done
right for completely the wrongreason.
It's a brilliant moment.
I'll see if I could find one ofthem and send it to you,
because it is absolutelyhilarious.

(01:26:09):
And to see them try and fightthe moment and they clearly
can't and then slowly start tolean into it makes it brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
As someone who's done their fair share of breaking
the character on stage andthings like that.
Audience is kind of like thatmore than anything else, and to
the point where what we ended updoing we would do it on purpose
.
In the end, we would basicallyadd a bit where we broke

(01:26:39):
character as a scripted bitbecause it ended up getting a
better reaction than theoriginal bit that we wrote.
Sure, so we do a bit where Iwould start laughing at
something when I'm not supposedto be laughing air quote, not
supposed to be laughing at thatbut I would start laughing and
that would make the audiencelaugh because there's that thing
of it makes them feel likethey're seeing something new and
special.

(01:26:59):
Exactly, and I hate to say, ifyou ever saw me with my act used
to be called Ray Guns, lookReal Enough.
If you ever saw our act and yousaw that scene where I start
laughing because I made a jokeabout Emos and it doesn't get a
big laugh.
So I start laughing at the factthat it doesn't get a laugh and
then the audience is laughingat me, laughing at the fact that
it didn't get a laugh and itended up being a very scripted

(01:27:21):
bit, even though it came acrossas unscripted, sure, but it's a
very interesting thing to sortof play on that fourth wall
breaking.
It's very Deadpool kind ofthing.
So there's, there's somethingto be said for for that sort of
thing.
So I can understand why thatwould work in the wrestling
environment, because wrestlingis ridiculous.
It is like the, not not theactual wrestling itself.

(01:27:44):
That's impressive because it'sit's some proper physical effort
going into that and they're not.
Well, yes, they're hitting eachother with closed fists, but
they're still big dudes hittingeach other with closed fist.
You're still going to be to bedead If you don't get hit by
those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
I mean as much as I know each other with a chair.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
They're really hitting each other with a chair.
It's work as well.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
As much as I'm not a huge fan of Logan Paul, I mean
the fact that he's recently beeninvolved in the WWE and has
seemed to just take to it likehe's been a natural his entire
life Because he's a performer.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
Exactly, and I would say to an audience where a lot
of other wrestlers don't reallyknow how to do that at first he
took to it like a Dr Walter,because he already know you had
to interact with an audience.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
There is one video and I showed it actually not
that long ago in my stream wherethere's him and another guy and
they literally jump off theropes at each other and collide
in the middle of ring and landand you think most people would
take years to try and executethat.
I mean he's been in there for afew months and does it
seamlessly, but the landing theyboth took, yeah, I mean he just

(01:29:02):
sort of look and go wrestling'sfake.
But my God, that landing wasanything but fake and you kind
of see it both like we probablyshouldn't have done that, but
that reaction was worth it.
We're just going to kind ofsquabble off now and let someone
else take over.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Yeah, oh God.
Well, luckily we didn't have todo that at the ages.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
No, no, we didn't have to jump off the off the top
of balcony area or try andthrow people down the pit.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
So imagine if it was just like.
Well, no one won the game of it, so now you will have to
wrestle each other.
It's now become a Royal Rumbleover the top rope, you go.
Poor Gemma, yeah, poor Gemma,may she rest in peace, Although
she did.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
she did beat the guy who was apparently like was it
16th in England at gaming orsomething I remember she
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
Oh, what in that first round game?

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Yeah, she absolutely massacred him in Street Fighter
and I remember Bob Mills tearingthat poor guy a new asshole and
sort of me being backstagebeing like.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Yeah, he was good at that.
He was good at that.
I actually have met him sincethen.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
Oh hey, in comedy, in comedy, he's a stand-up
comedian.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
He didn't talk about it that much, but I just I said
that I was a contestant andbecause he is a large man in all
aspects of the word, like I'mnot like being mean, like in oh
sure, he's a large frame, buttall, yeah, very tall, and when
we were kids, like he was agiant, yeah, an absolute giant

(01:30:31):
of a man, he was one of thosepeople.
He was like he was rude, but hewas allowed to be rude.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
Yeah, agree.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
And I don't know why you liked him, Like when he,
when I got off, he was just likeso I hear you're an expert at
boogie boarding.
I feel very, very embarrassedabout that whole thing, by the
way.
But where he says you're anexpert at boogie boarding, Now
what a lot of people here mightbe thinking is what's a boogie
board?
The thing is, we're never goingto know, because take him away.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
Yeah, it's like oh, cheers, bob, thanks for ruining,
my life, mate Cheers.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
We're killing your children's self-esteem.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
I've just locked.
Thanks, kick me in the bollocksagain, why don't you?
No, thanks a lot.
Oh, would you like another one?
Here you go.
Here's another one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Oh, just like kicking you in the back as you're
walking away, just three, threehundred-style, booting you in
the back down a pit, kicking you.
What's that scar on your back?
Bob Mills foot.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
Yeah, I'm gonna put a tattoo next to just Bob Mills.
His foot was here.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
I should know I'd be quite good, I might get that
yeah there you go, if I'mlooking again.
Get him to sign my back so Ican get it back rude.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
That's a brilliant idea.
When did you get that GamesWorld?

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
You won't have heard of it.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
Next to the tattoo is a QR code someone could scan.
That takes you to the exact tothe exact moment when it happens
.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Can you believe QR codes are still a thing?

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
Yeah, but do you know what I find is hilarious?
Because I remember when QRcodes first came out and
everyone was like, oh, they'rereally cool, and then it just
faded into the oblivion, andthen all of a sudden, it was
like QR codes are cool and I'mlike they've been around for
ages.
It's like, why are we gettingsuper hyped up about it?
And it was like but you canmake them colourful and you can
put your logo in the middle.
And I'm like, yeah, you canalways do that.

(01:32:34):
Scan this and it takes you to awebsite.
Yeah, I know, I get how itworks.
It's just really old techthat's now come back.
It's very weird, very, veryweird.
But then again, we've hadrevivals of stuff like that,
even like record players, rightyeah?

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
vinyl, vinyl.
Yeah, very much back yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
I can't believe what year it was.
I think it was 20.
I want to say it was 2018,where there was more sales of
vinyls than DVDs, blu-rays andCDs combined, or something
insane, it doesn't surprise mein the slightest.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
One of my mates became an avid vinyl collector.
I've got some vinyl Like I'vegot.
Do you know what I've got onvinyl?
I've got Space man, Babylon Zooon vinyl.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
Look at that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
To the point, because one of the reasons why I wanted
to get it on vinyl was becauseI wanted to play it and then
hold it to slow it down, to hearif the beginning did sound like
that slowed down bit in.
And it did, it did.
It was like ah, science, I likethis.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
This actually works yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
I'm one of the only people in the world that
actually kind of enjoyed theirfirst album.
Their second album is HotGarbage.
It is absolutely just some ofthe worst music you have ever
heard.
That first album has someactually quite good tunes on it.
I don't care.
I quite like that first BabylonZoo album.
I don't even mind the slow downbits of Space man.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
I quite like it.
I probably have to go back andhave them cut their back out.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
No, don't, don't, it's not that good.
It's not that good, but I quiteliked it.
But I've got very poor taste inthings.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Brilliant, brilliant, oh well.
Well, I think we're going toleave it there, but that has
been an incredible journey Ithink through.
About Matt Blair, that's forsure.
You've blown my mind in manydifferent ways, but it's just
incredible to be able to talk toyou again after all these years

(01:34:37):
.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
No, genuinely thank you One.
Thank you for putting the videoup.
Thank you for inviting me to dothis.
Thank you for this conversation.
I've had a wonderful time.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
I'm glad to be here.
I know I like to hear, but foranyone who is listening or
watching, all of Matt's detailswill be down below.
There won't be links to BabylonZoo, but there will be links to
everything that he does.
I'll make sure you go give hima follow-on switch, such as I
have.
I'll have to pop by yourstreams at some point.
What days times do you normallystream at?

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
Sorry, at the moment I'm actually on a break because,
as I said, I'm in the middle ofmoving, but usually Thursdays I
tend to do trivia nights.
I do the pub quiz, because mypub quiz is on a Wednesday, and
then I just put the questions upon Twitch.
There's no prizes, it's just,you know, thursdays and Sundays
are usually a definite Thursday.
Thursday and Sunday eveningsOccasionally a Tuesday, if I can

(01:35:31):
.
But I'm about to change thingsup a little bit because I'm
going to be doing some likemusic, looping streams, ok, as
well as games.
I'm waiting.
I need to get Jedi Survivor andI need to get Aliens Dark
Descent.
Those are two games I reallywant to play, but when
Spider-Man 2 comes out, I'mdefinitely going to be playing

(01:35:51):
that.
So you'll just have to Like.
If you follow me on Twitch,then at some point ask for an
invite to the Discord, and theDiscord is where I post all of
my upcoming streams.

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
Awesome.
Well, there we go.
That is all the details.
Stay on the line, Matt, butit's been an absolute pleasure.
I've learned things about youthat I've waited 30 years to
know.
But, yeah, I mean again, it'sjust been an absolutely
incredible journey and the startof a new friendship revives, I
think, is probably I think so, Ithink so.

(01:36:25):
Well, I certainly hope you keepin touch.
Anyway, and for anybody who iswatching or listening, please
make sure you go and check allof the places where Matt does
all of his amazing things as hestrokes his guitar.
Is that the name of the nextalbum?
Matt Blair Strokes a Guitar.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Yes, no, I was actually.
I'm actually feeling to see howrusty this string is.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
I thought that's what you were doing, but I was
trying to cover that up, butit's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Hold on, is this rusty?
Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
Yes, it is Never mind We'll have to get that restrung
and get it on Twitch.
But anyway, from Mimi MachineDean and from Matt Blair, a very
, very very good evening goodafternoon or good morning,
wherever you are, and thank youvery much for listening.
Bye-bye, I'll see you now ifyou want.
I might play some comedy musicover this, I don't know.

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#31 | Reliving the Games World Journey with Matt Blair

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#31 | Reliving the Games World Journey with Matt Blair