October 25, 2023 • 26 mins
FULL SHOW NOTES
https://podcast.nz365guy.com/494
Imagine revolutionizing businesses with a single platform... that's precisely what our guest Phil Glew-Deval, an MVP from Bexel, England, does with the Power Platform. As a lead developer, he's not just designing applications; he's transforming workflows and making business processes more efficient. Balancing his technical prowess with a love for food, family, and a good book, Phil's world extends far beyond the realm of coding.
Join us in the exciting journey of Phil, from his early days as an internal audit professional to becoming a Power Platform developer. Not one to keep his knowledge to himself, Phil reveals his process of creating an app in PowerApps, from the intricacies of SharePoint to the wonders of dataverse tables. Hear about his most advanced creation - a desk booking application for nearly 4,000 colleagues. But not everything is as rosy as it seems. Phil addresses the misconceptions around the Power Platform, and how education and communication are the key to dispelling them. Wrapping up our conversation, we delve into the world of Microsoft Certified Trainer qualification, giving you a comprehensive overview of what the certification entails. Prepare to be inspired and enlightened - this episode is packed with insights!
OTHER RESOURCES:
Microsoft MVP YouTube Series - How to Become a Microsoft MVP
90-Day Mentoring Challenge - https://ako.nz365guy.com/
Learn Microsoft: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/users/philglewdeval-0632/
Website: www.dcsuk.tech
If you want to get in touch with me, you can message me here on Linkedin.
Thanks for listening 🚀 - Mark Smith
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Smith (00:06):
Welcome to the MVP Show.
My intention is that you listento the stories of these MVP
guests and are inspired tobecome an MVP and bring value to
the world through your skills.
If you have not checked it outalready, I do a YouTube series
called how to Become an MVP.
The link is in the show notes.
With that, let's get on withthe show.
(00:31):
Today's guest is from Bexel,england.
He works at Hastings Direct asthe lead power platform
developer.
He was first awarded as MVP in2023, so nice and fresh.
He believes that the powerplatform is a game changer for
businesses of all sizes andindustries.
Couldn't agree more.
(00:51):
You can find links to his bioand socials in the show notes
for this episode.
As always, welcome to the show,phil.
Thank you very much, hi, mark.
Good to have you on the show.
It'll be interesting.
I'm packing asorry-in-your-perspective on the
power platform.
We're looking forward to that.
Before we start, tell us aboutfood, family and fun.
(01:14):
What do they mean to you?
What's the impact they have onyour life?
Phil Glew-Deval (01:18):
Food, family and fun.
Well, equally important, Iwould say each one.
So yes, you've said a lot aboutBexel, so just a small town
really outside Hastings.
With my husband, we've just gota new puppy.
That's taking out a lot of mytime at the moment.
We've got a from birth reallyDash and Eric, who needs his own
(01:41):
platform really.
Mark Smith (01:46):
Do you have an Instagram account for him?
Phil Glew-Deval (01:49):
Not at the moment.
No, I think we need to get thatone set up when he's of age.
At the moment it would just bea lot of videos of him chewing
things, which is great.
Food-wise, anything goes reallybit to me.
You can't beat a goodtraditional full English.
You've lived in the UK, mark,you know how amazing that is.
(02:14):
So if that would be my go-toFun-wise, I'm pretty happy.
People say you know what do youdo for fun?
And people always say, oh well,I work on.
You know I enjoy using thePower Platform tools and of
course that's a big part of whatI do for my own sort of
interests and keeping me out oftrouble, so to speak.
(02:35):
But I'm a big reader.
I've got about two, two and ahalf thousand books in our house
.
So whenever I can yeah,whenever I can is to read for
pleasure, if that makes sense.
So read a good novel, read agood biography, anything which
is just completely different towhat I do for work, something
not related to technology.
(02:55):
So it's a bit of a scapism.
Mark Smith (02:57):
I like it.
I like it and the beauty of abook.
Right.
It can easily take you down arabbit hole of reality that you
can absolutely lose time with.
Right.
Phil Glew-Deval (03:08):
Completely yeah .
And even if it's notparticularly, you know, real or
true to life, it's, it'sescapism, that's what it's there
for, right, and a physical bookto me is 10 times better than
an ebook.
Mark Smith (03:24):
Yes, interesting, interesting.
I've definitely read where Iwent to bed reading and I didn't
sleep at all.
I the sun came up and I wasstill reading, you know.
Phil Glew-Deval (03:33):
Yeah, we've all had those.
And similarly you've had thatwhere you, you started to read a
book and you, you, you facepalm with the, with the book in
your hand.
So it's great for both.
Mark Smith (03:42):
Yeah, totally, totally.
I find that, particularly withelectronic books, if I don't
have the audio as well, I'll allof a sudden find myself asleep.
You know, don't know what'sgoing on.
Yeah, no, it's interesting.
Tell us a bit about how you gotinvolved with the Power
Platform.
Phil Glew-Deval (04:01):
Yeah.
So it's actually been very,very quick for me to to really
come into anything to do withtechnology, let alone the Power
Platform.
So whistle stop, really.
Is the?
The lot of sort of 10 years ofmy career priors are working on
the Microsoft suite specifically.
Power has been in compliance,internal audit and sort of
(04:22):
complaint management.
Really, the opportunity arose,for we're currently working to
create a new application for oneof our regulatory pieces of
work that we need to do and, asit often happens, we were
relying on Excel documents.
We're relying on prettyoutdated SharePoint sites which
(04:45):
served their purpose but neededthat overhaul, needed that
refresh.
I had already voiced that Ineeded to stretch my legs a
little bit more.
The one thing working in auditis you write an audit report.
It goes out to the masses andit's well received.
You get great engagement frompeople.
But you write a finding anaudit report or something that
(05:09):
maybe has gone a little bit awry, a little bit wrong due to
manual processes, and you thinkI could do that, I could
automate that, I could fix that.
So I kind of got fed up tellingother people what you should be
doing and I thought I could dothat myself and the way I could
do that spin up a power app,spin up an automation flow.
It really is that simple inthose cases.
(05:31):
So towards the last six months,really, of me working in audit,
I was given the opportunity toreally sort of let loose on
power, which even two years agobecause it's come such a long
way was a little bit lessadvanced than some of the
elements that we have now.
So my first deliverable was apretty basic.
(05:51):
I look back at it now I think,oh, what was I doing?
That was really bad.
But it was straightforwardcanvas app with a SharePoint
data source to capture, as I say, regulatory information from
some of our colleagues, and thatwas my first step into it.
I thought I really enjoyeddoing this.
You can see the impact thatthis is having immediately.
(06:13):
So those long development timeshave gone and you create what
you know, as a business expert,needs to be done without having
to jump through the hoops ofelongated planning and elongated
testing.
It's all ready for you and thatwas my first app and it's
(06:36):
really just taken from there andlucky enough to then move
directly into a role where itwas looking after the power
platform for the organization,for the company.
So I've had a lot of luck, buta lot of hard work as well, to
(07:00):
be able to put my career in thisposition now, using these great
tools and solving businessproblems and challenges, and
being able to see the outcome,being able to see the effect
that they're having in our dayto day operations and also be a
user myself of these.
It's not something we create andthen throw away.
(07:22):
It's not something we create,deploy and walk away.
We create, we deploy, we test,we use, we continue that support
throughout its life cycle andthat, for me, is, I think, one
of the biggest pluses of theplatform is that you continue
(07:43):
through it.
It's an iterative developmentprocess, like everything but
those deployments.
There's no updates.
We don't need teams ofdevelopers.
I can do that.
That's the only issue with theaccountability and the drive,
therefore, of the passion ofmaking this a really good
application or a really good setof automation principles is
(08:07):
kind of what drives me on.
Mark Smith (08:10):
So how did you first hear about it?
Who introduced you to the PowerPlatform or the Power App or
Power Automate?
Who was at first?
What was that first day thatyou remember, that you came
across it?
Phil Glew-Deval (08:21):
Because I remember the date, but I
remember the actual day.
I remember where I was sitting.
It sounds like you know wherewe were when X happened and it
was a good friend of mine butour CTO, our Chief Technology
Officer at the time, simonBullars, and we were talking
through what needed to be doneand my original sort of proof of
(08:48):
concept, my original spin-up ofwhat I thought could work, was
really a SharePoint site and, toexplain in general terms, this
was a way for people to logcertain activities.
It's all it really really is,but needed to be user friendly,
needed to be quick and it neededto be in a way that really
non-technology people could getto grips with and submit the
(09:10):
information that they needed to.
And he said to me this screamsPowerApp to me.
And there was me trying to playalong, knowing exactly what he
meant, but Googling feverishlyin the background about
PowerApps, and it was as simpleas going then to
makepowerappscom.
(09:31):
Walking through the process, Iwas like I was back then what do
I start with?
I start with SharePoint.
Okay, let's move forward.
What kind of app would it bebest to use?
Okay, let's use Canvas.
And then it really took fromthere and I've never looked back
since that first conversationwith him of how he sold, how it
(09:51):
was sold to me.
It can literally do anything orit can be configured to do
anything, and I thought there'snothing that can do anything,
there's nothing that you canreally push that far.
But from that day on, I'venever yet found a case, a use
case, that doesn't utilize someof the Power Platform or can't
(10:13):
use some of the Power Platformin some way.
So that really was the pinnacleturning point for me.
Mark Smith (10:19):
What's been your most advanced solution that
you've created on the PowerPlatform.
Phil Glew-Deval (10:25):
So there's probably two, but the one that
is in kind of most use is a deskbooking application with a
difference, as I call it.
So this very, very large Canvasapp now is used by nearly 4,000
colleagues daily to not onlybook desks across our current
(10:50):
office space but also be able toamend and edit that desk
booking book on behalf of others.
So we have a lot of people withenhanced permissions on there
who have got teams of people orlook after maybe a member of our
leadership team so they canbook on behalf of that person
(11:10):
but also submit requests fortravel information.
And the reason I say this is ortravel booking, should I say
the reason I say this is thelargest is that we have swathes
of dataverse tables in there.
It's constantly being used, infact, during the hours of I
think it's between 11 pm andmaybe around now, so called at 6
(11:32):
, 6 am.
It's downtime.
From now onwards, people will beusing the application for a
whole host of things bookinginvisitors, for example, until
11 o'clock, 10 o'clock tonight.
So it is big.
It's getting a little bit toobig for its booths In some ways.
(11:54):
There's always a way torefactor, but again, that's not
a huge task with Power Platform,it's because of its
extensibility.
This is how the future of theseservices should and is going to
work, so I'm not scared to getback in there and update it,
(12:15):
make it better.
Mark Smith (12:18):
So how do you deal with misconceptions around that
the Power Platform is just for,like, simple apps, maybe a form
capture, simple stuff.
How do you deal with that?
Phil Glew-Deval (12:30):
Yeah, it's a tricky one, but I think not to
be too evangelistic, but it'sreally about education,
communication and knowledge ofmaybe some IT professionals or
those in decision making roleswithin the organisation who
(12:53):
really just don't understand it,because sometimes of the way it
can be positioned as somethingto keep those people that think
their developers happy whilstthe actual developers get on
with the real work writing theirJavaScript, writing their
Python.
It's a difficult one toovercome, but the way I tackle
it is to really show them.
(13:13):
You know, you've, you'vementioned on this call, you've
mentioned in this meeting thatthis is your business problem.
This is what you want to try toachieve and, because of the
speed and the ease of use from adeveloper's perspective, to use
power to spin up somethingwithin literally an hour to
(13:34):
hours and show that back to themEither on a screen recording or
here's the out, here's the linkto what you were asking for go
and have a play.
You can't break anything.
Go and have a play, and thatwas all done with power.
That's neither as well.
With the right licensing,that's not going to cost you
anything and you haven't paid avery expensive external
(13:57):
consultancy firm.
You know, to ground a day,let's say, for six weeks to come
up with something in a pro codefashion.
That's been a big way of makingpeople think, oh okay, I didn't
realize that the power apps orpower platform or power BI, even
in some cases, is enough tomake people think, wow, this is,
(14:19):
this is a game changer.
That's done a lot, but for meit's what I said, that about
that knowledge and the educationthat's been, I think the you
know we talk about how I movedinto becoming MVP, etc that's
been.
The biggest thing for me is toshow people, not just give them
(14:40):
the output and here it is done,does it work for you, yes or no,
but show them those steps of.
This is what we do, this is howit works, and that is that.
I think that's been the far andaway the best way of
communicating and educatingpeople on what this is.
Because I do understand why it'sscary for people, especially
(15:04):
those that have worked indevelopment teams, scrum teams,
senior levels, even for many,many years, decades.
Even this new kid on the blockof low no code can be unsettling
for them and I get that.
But there's no reason it shouldbe.
It's not there to replace jobs.
It's there to compliment whatwe already have, and the two, in
(15:28):
my view, can work very muchhand in hand seamlessly.
So let's embrace that and let'sexploit that as much as we can.
Mark Smith (15:35):
Yeah, I want to side steps quickly into the area of
Microsoft certified trainer.
I take it you're an MCT right?
Phil Glew-Deval (15:43):
Yes, I was MCT first.
Mark Smith (15:45):
Yeah, yes, so.
So one of the things I noticedon your profile you had a comp
tier trainer.
Trainer was that rightqualification.
Now, I did that over 20 yearsago, my career and it's been a
long time and I've recommended alot of people do it if they, if
they want to become a adulteducator trainer, how long ago
did you do your do that comptier cert and what was involved
(16:09):
in it and what are the keythings that addresses?
Phil Glew-Deval (16:12):
Yeah, so the comp tier plus plus, as I think,
is known.
I did that nearly two years agonow I think it was about 18
months to two years ago and thatparticular, along with some
other training, adult training,classroom training,
(16:33):
qualifications, is one of theprerequisites to getting the MCT
.
But the company specifically isan assessed program To really
evaluate how you are as atrainer, not necessarily the
content of what you're trainingyou could train anything, but
(16:54):
it's how you do that.
How are you acting, how are youbehaving, how are you engaging
with your pupils, with yourclassroom students?
For that particular topic andmy particular assessment was
actually on Dataverse, I did ahalf an hour.
I think it was real high leveloverview.
(17:15):
We dealt with it in a littlebit of detail with my team.
It was knowledge learning forall of us really, because you
never really understandsomething until you try to train
on it and you realise, oh,that's a very good question to
find that one out.
So I was on Dataverse and Isubmitted that through to them
(17:37):
along with a formal assessmenton the principles of engaging
classroom training, and thensubmitted that through was
successful and moved on totraining the actual courses
themselves.
So it's quite a lot of work forthe CompTIA in terms of meeting
(17:59):
the requirements.
But once you're in there andyou're either virtually or in
person doing that, that training, that assess piece of training
and onwards, you just come intoyour own really.
Mark Smith (18:10):
So, specifically for those listening, it was CTT
Plus as the actual trainingcourse.
Comptia do a lot of differentcourses.
My first one was, I think,called A Plus, which was how to
build computers right back inthe, you know, back in the day
when I started in IT and so, butyeah, the train the trainer was
(18:33):
a really good, or becoming anadult trainer was that program.
And you're right, people, oneperson on my course I remember
doing the class and everything.
We had a full classroomenvironment.
One person was an adulteducator of yoga and they were
using it to build out their yogatraining skills.
Yeah, so it's not not specificto IT, not at all, and it's
(18:58):
industry standard qualification.
Phil Glew-Deval (19:00):
And the great thing about it now is really
sort of buoyed on by the COVIDyears that I called them is the
ability to not just have theclassroom trainer element but
there's also a virtual classroomtrainer pathway between the two
so you know you can pick theone that's most suitable for you
, where your audience is goingto be, and it's all tailored
(19:21):
then to that kind ofcommunication channel.
So a classroom physicalclassroom trainer is about
engaging you know your physicalpresence whereas the virtual one
is how to use teams, how to useSkype to do breakout rooms.
How do you engage with thosepeople?
How are you getting yourmessage across?
How are you pausing for breath?
(19:42):
How are you bringing thesubject matter to life?
So there's two pathways thereand they're equally as brilliant
.
So it's definitely the firststep towards empty team.
I go again.
Mark Smith (19:58):
It's good.
The last question I havebecause we're at the 20 minute
mark already is the lastquestion I have is how did you
become an MVP?
Who nominated you?
What was involved?
Being that you've got itrecently, it'll be interesting
to hear how things were.
Phil Glew-Deval (20:14):
Yes, mvp for me was something that I always
wanted to aspire to.
I knew that the primary ofbecoming an MVP is really the
gift back to the community.
That's what it's all about.
So I created my blogpowerupwithfilcom Not quite sure
of the name now maybe I have tochange that, but that's what I
(20:35):
went with To record very shortshot videos and walkthrough
guides of how we can push power,how we can really extend its
boundaries.
So I got that all up andrunning and started very, very
small, with just a few littleblog posts on how to use
(20:56):
Dataverse.
In a certain way, my good friendof my, nick Fry, who works for
Microsoft, who I worked with ina previous life, has spotted
blogs, spotted what I was doingand nominated me for MVP, which
I remain always thankful to himfor.
(21:18):
It's, then, quite a longprocess for MVP because
obviously you need to keep goingon the blogging, the community
involvement, the conversationswith Microsoft as well.
It really helps.
So, at a time when PowerVirtual Agents was in its
(21:40):
infancy, I joined a workinggroup of what should PVA do?
What is it missing versus botframework as your bot framework,
and the two are never the samebecause of their underlying
infrastructure, but how can wemake PVA do some of the things
that bot framework can do in apro-code way?
That was a great piece for meto really get involved in the
(22:03):
future of Microsoft technology.
So the application submitted.
This is how it works in an appshell you get nominated, you put
forward everything aboutyourself, why you want to be MVP
, what is it about the MVPstatus and the MVP community
that is going to enhance theMicrosoft community overall?
(22:26):
And then there's the tensemoments of a month or two where
you wait for your application tobe reviewed, keep going, keep
on with your knowledge, sharingyour learning, your own personal
development, learning as well.
And then that magic email comesthrough mine came through early
May this year ofcongratulations, you've been
(22:48):
accepted in the MVP program.
And then there's thecelebration natural celebration
to come after, and you then arewelcomed.
So well, the MVP community isone of the most welcoming places
ever that you can never ask thewrong or bad question.
So, even if this is somethingthat is pretty fundamental that
(23:13):
maybe I've just never comeacross, I can ask the MVP
community, the distribution list, the groups that we are members
of how do I do this?
What am I doing wrong andsomeone will come back with
here's a link to the docs,something very straightforward,
but you just think, ah, that'sbrilliant.
(23:35):
And for those more taxingchallenges as well, and
sometimes when we encounter bugs, we're often the first people
to raise them with Microsoftdirectly and get them out, get
them sorted, or at leastworkarounds developed by the
Microsoft themselves, or all oneof us.
We'll help you do that to comeup with a workaround that
Tilifix can be put in.
(23:56):
So it's extremely rewarding tobe part of and the sky really is
no limit in this case theamount of development, the
amount of thought to each andevery problem, each and every
(24:19):
use case, each and every ideathat we want to try and achieve,
not just with power.
This is when VP really comesinto its own, because you're
exposed to all of the Microsofttechnologies and I've not come
across it yet, but I know othershave is when power maybe isn't
the best solution for something.
Chat with your mates, chat withyour other MVP, chat with the
(24:42):
community.
What is the best Microsoft pieceto solve this problem?
And if it's not power, you'llsoon get the answers to what it
really should be.
And just to close off, reallyfrom my MVP experience the
amount of times where we stillleverage some power capabilities
in something completely leftfield from Azure.
(25:05):
So Azure Internet things,keeval virtual machines, etc.
That don't really natively havetheir place in the power world,
so to speak, the twointeracting between each other
to bring a really fast andreally reliable solution to the
end user.
(25:26):
It happens more often thanpeople would think.
Mark Smith (25:32):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I'm your host businessapplication MVP Mark Smith,
otherwise known as the NZ365 guy.
If you like the show and wantto be a supporter, check out
buymeacoffeecom forward slashNZ365 guy.
Thanks again and see you nexttime.
Welcome to the MVP Show.
My intention is that you listento the stories of these MVP
guests and are inspired tobecome an MVP and bring value to
the world through your skills.
If you have not checked it outalready, I do a YouTube series
called how to Become an MVP.
The link is in the show notes.
With that, let's get on withthe show.
(00:31):
Today's guest is from Bexel,england.
He works at Hastings Direct asthe lead power platform
developer.
He was first awarded as MVP in2023, so nice and fresh.
He believes that the powerplatform is a game changer for
businesses of all sizes andindustries.
Couldn't agree more.
(00:51):
You can find links to his bioand socials in the show notes
for this episode.
As always, welcome to the show,phil.
Thank you very much, hi, mark.
Good to have you on the show.
It'll be interesting.
I'm packing asorry-in-your-perspective on the
power platform.
We're looking forward to that.
Before we start, tell us aboutfood, family and fun.
(01:14):
What do they mean to you?
What's the impact they have onyour life?
Phil Glew-Deval (01:18):
Food, family and fun.
Well, equally important, Iwould say each one.
So yes, you've said a lot aboutBexel, so just a small town
really outside Hastings.
With my husband, we've just gota new puppy.
That's taking out a lot of mytime at the moment.
We've got a from birth reallyDash and Eric, who needs his own
(01:41):
platform really.
Mark Smith (01:46):
Do you have an Instagram account for him?
Phil Glew-Deval (01:49):
Not at the moment.
No, I think we need to get thatone set up when he's of age.
At the moment it would just bea lot of videos of him chewing
things, which is great.
Food-wise, anything goes reallybit to me.
You can't beat a goodtraditional full English.
You've lived in the UK, mark,you know how amazing that is.
(02:14):
So if that would be my go-toFun-wise, I'm pretty happy.
People say you know what do youdo for fun?
And people always say, oh well,I work on.
You know I enjoy using thePower Platform tools and of
course that's a big part of whatI do for my own sort of
interests and keeping me out oftrouble, so to speak.
(02:35):
But I'm a big reader.
I've got about two, two and ahalf thousand books in our house
.
So whenever I can yeah,whenever I can is to read for
pleasure, if that makes sense.
So read a good novel, read agood biography, anything which
is just completely different towhat I do for work, something
not related to technology.
(02:55):
So it's a bit of a scapism.
Mark Smith (02:57):
I like it.
I like it and the beauty of abook.
Right.
It can easily take you down arabbit hole of reality that you
can absolutely lose time with.
Right.
Phil Glew-Deval (03:08):
Completely yeah .
And even if it's notparticularly, you know, real or
true to life, it's, it'sescapism, that's what it's there
for, right, and a physical bookto me is 10 times better than
an ebook.
Mark Smith (03:24):
Yes, interesting, interesting.
I've definitely read where Iwent to bed reading and I didn't
sleep at all.
I the sun came up and I wasstill reading, you know.
Phil Glew-Deval (03:33):
Yeah, we've all had those.
And similarly you've had thatwhere you, you started to read a
book and you, you, you facepalm with the, with the book in
your hand.
So it's great for both.
Mark Smith (03:42):
Yeah, totally, totally.
I find that, particularly withelectronic books, if I don't
have the audio as well, I'll allof a sudden find myself asleep.
You know, don't know what'sgoing on.
Yeah, no, it's interesting.
Tell us a bit about how you gotinvolved with the Power
Platform.
Phil Glew-Deval (04:01):
Yeah.
So it's actually been very,very quick for me to to really
come into anything to do withtechnology, let alone the Power
Platform.
So whistle stop, really.
Is the?
The lot of sort of 10 years ofmy career priors are working on
the Microsoft suite specifically.
Power has been in compliance,internal audit and sort of
(04:22):
complaint management.
Really, the opportunity arose,for we're currently working to
create a new application for oneof our regulatory pieces of
work that we need to do and, asit often happens, we were
relying on Excel documents.
We're relying on prettyoutdated SharePoint sites which
(04:45):
served their purpose but neededthat overhaul, needed that
refresh.
I had already voiced that Ineeded to stretch my legs a
little bit more.
The one thing working in auditis you write an audit report.
It goes out to the masses andit's well received.
You get great engagement frompeople.
But you write a finding anaudit report or something that
(05:09):
maybe has gone a little bit awry, a little bit wrong due to
manual processes, and you thinkI could do that, I could
automate that, I could fix that.
So I kind of got fed up tellingother people what you should be
doing and I thought I could dothat myself and the way I could
do that spin up a power app,spin up an automation flow.
It really is that simple inthose cases.
(05:31):
So towards the last six months,really, of me working in audit,
I was given the opportunity toreally sort of let loose on
power, which even two years agobecause it's come such a long
way was a little bit lessadvanced than some of the
elements that we have now.
So my first deliverable was apretty basic.
(05:51):
I look back at it now I think,oh, what was I doing?
That was really bad.
But it was straightforwardcanvas app with a SharePoint
data source to capture, as I say, regulatory information from
some of our colleagues, and thatwas my first step into it.
I thought I really enjoyeddoing this.
You can see the impact thatthis is having immediately.
(06:13):
So those long development timeshave gone and you create what
you know, as a business expert,needs to be done without having
to jump through the hoops ofelongated planning and elongated
testing.
It's all ready for you and thatwas my first app and it's
(06:36):
really just taken from there andlucky enough to then move
directly into a role where itwas looking after the power
platform for the organization,for the company.
So I've had a lot of luck, buta lot of hard work as well, to
(07:00):
be able to put my career in thisposition now, using these great
tools and solving businessproblems and challenges, and
being able to see the outcome,being able to see the effect
that they're having in our dayto day operations and also be a
user myself of these.
It's not something we create andthen throw away.
(07:22):
It's not something we create,deploy and walk away.
We create, we deploy, we test,we use, we continue that support
throughout its life cycle andthat, for me, is, I think, one
of the biggest pluses of theplatform is that you continue
(07:43):
through it.
It's an iterative developmentprocess, like everything but
those deployments.
There's no updates.
We don't need teams ofdevelopers.
I can do that.
That's the only issue with theaccountability and the drive,
therefore, of the passion ofmaking this a really good
application or a really good setof automation principles is
(08:07):
kind of what drives me on.
Mark Smith (08:10):
So how did you first hear about it?
Who introduced you to the PowerPlatform or the Power App or
Power Automate?
Who was at first?
What was that first day thatyou remember, that you came
across it?
Phil Glew-Deval (08:21):
Because I remember the date, but I
remember the actual day.
I remember where I was sitting.
It sounds like you know wherewe were when X happened and it
was a good friend of mine butour CTO, our Chief Technology
Officer at the time, simonBullars, and we were talking
through what needed to be doneand my original sort of proof of
(08:48):
concept, my original spin-up ofwhat I thought could work, was
really a SharePoint site and, toexplain in general terms, this
was a way for people to logcertain activities.
It's all it really really is,but needed to be user friendly,
needed to be quick and it neededto be in a way that really
non-technology people could getto grips with and submit the
(09:10):
information that they needed to.
And he said to me this screamsPowerApp to me.
And there was me trying to playalong, knowing exactly what he
meant, but Googling feverishlyin the background about
PowerApps, and it was as simpleas going then to
makepowerappscom.
(09:31):
Walking through the process, Iwas like I was back then what do
I start with?
I start with SharePoint.
Okay, let's move forward.
What kind of app would it bebest to use?
Okay, let's use Canvas.
And then it really took fromthere and I've never looked back
since that first conversationwith him of how he sold, how it
(09:51):
was sold to me.
It can literally do anything orit can be configured to do
anything, and I thought there'snothing that can do anything,
there's nothing that you canreally push that far.
But from that day on, I'venever yet found a case, a use
case, that doesn't utilize someof the Power Platform or can't
(10:13):
use some of the Power Platformin some way.
So that really was the pinnacleturning point for me.
Mark Smith (10:19):
What's been your most advanced solution that
you've created on the PowerPlatform.
Phil Glew-Deval (10:25):
So there's probably two, but the one that
is in kind of most use is a deskbooking application with a
difference, as I call it.
So this very, very large Canvasapp now is used by nearly 4,000
colleagues daily to not onlybook desks across our current
(10:50):
office space but also be able toamend and edit that desk
booking book on behalf of others.
So we have a lot of people withenhanced permissions on there
who have got teams of people orlook after maybe a member of our
leadership team so they canbook on behalf of that person
(11:10):
but also submit requests fortravel information.
And the reason I say this is ortravel booking, should I say
the reason I say this is thelargest is that we have swathes
of dataverse tables in there.
It's constantly being used, infact, during the hours of I
think it's between 11 pm andmaybe around now, so called at 6
(11:32):
, 6 am.
It's downtime.
From now onwards, people will beusing the application for a
whole host of things bookinginvisitors, for example, until
11 o'clock, 10 o'clock tonight.
So it is big.
It's getting a little bit toobig for its booths In some ways.
(11:54):
There's always a way torefactor, but again, that's not
a huge task with Power Platform,it's because of its
extensibility.
This is how the future of theseservices should and is going to
work, so I'm not scared to getback in there and update it,
(12:15):
make it better.
Mark Smith (12:18):
So how do you deal with misconceptions around that
the Power Platform is just for,like, simple apps, maybe a form
capture, simple stuff.
How do you deal with that?
Phil Glew-Deval (12:30):
Yeah, it's a tricky one, but I think not to
be too evangelistic, but it'sreally about education,
communication and knowledge ofmaybe some IT professionals or
those in decision making roleswithin the organisation who
(12:53):
really just don't understand it,because sometimes of the way it
can be positioned as somethingto keep those people that think
their developers happy whilstthe actual developers get on
with the real work writing theirJavaScript, writing their
Python.
It's a difficult one toovercome, but the way I tackle
it is to really show them.
(13:13):
You know, you've, you'vementioned on this call, you've
mentioned in this meeting thatthis is your business problem.
This is what you want to try toachieve and, because of the
speed and the ease of use from adeveloper's perspective, to use
power to spin up somethingwithin literally an hour to
(13:34):
hours and show that back to themEither on a screen recording or
here's the out, here's the linkto what you were asking for go
and have a play.
You can't break anything.
Go and have a play, and thatwas all done with power.
That's neither as well.
With the right licensing,that's not going to cost you
anything and you haven't paid avery expensive external
(13:57):
consultancy firm.
You know, to ground a day,let's say, for six weeks to come
up with something in a pro codefashion.
That's been a big way of makingpeople think, oh okay, I didn't
realize that the power apps orpower platform or power BI, even
in some cases, is enough tomake people think, wow, this is,
(14:19):
this is a game changer.
That's done a lot, but for meit's what I said, that about
that knowledge and the educationthat's been, I think the you
know we talk about how I movedinto becoming MVP, etc that's
been.
The biggest thing for me is toshow people, not just give them
(14:40):
the output and here it is done,does it work for you, yes or no,
but show them those steps of.
This is what we do, this is howit works, and that is that.
I think that's been the far andaway the best way of
communicating and educatingpeople on what this is.
Because I do understand why it'sscary for people, especially
(15:04):
those that have worked indevelopment teams, scrum teams,
senior levels, even for many,many years, decades.
Even this new kid on the blockof low no code can be unsettling
for them and I get that.
But there's no reason it shouldbe.
It's not there to replace jobs.
It's there to compliment whatwe already have, and the two, in
(15:28):
my view, can work very muchhand in hand seamlessly.
So let's embrace that and let'sexploit that as much as we can.
Mark Smith (15:35):
Yeah, I want to side steps quickly into the area of
Microsoft certified trainer.
I take it you're an MCT right?
Phil Glew-Deval (15:43):
Yes, I was MCT first.
Mark Smith (15:45):
Yeah, yes, so.
So one of the things I noticedon your profile you had a comp
tier trainer.
Trainer was that rightqualification.
Now, I did that over 20 yearsago, my career and it's been a
long time and I've recommended alot of people do it if they, if
they want to become a adulteducator trainer, how long ago
did you do your do that comptier cert and what was involved
(16:09):
in it and what are the keythings that addresses?
Phil Glew-Deval (16:12):
Yeah, so the comp tier plus plus, as I think,
is known.
I did that nearly two years agonow I think it was about 18
months to two years ago and thatparticular, along with some
other training, adult training,classroom training,
(16:33):
qualifications, is one of theprerequisites to getting the MCT
.
But the company specifically isan assessed program To really
evaluate how you are as atrainer, not necessarily the
content of what you're trainingyou could train anything, but
(16:54):
it's how you do that.
How are you acting, how are youbehaving, how are you engaging
with your pupils, with yourclassroom students?
For that particular topic andmy particular assessment was
actually on Dataverse, I did ahalf an hour.
I think it was real high leveloverview.
(17:15):
We dealt with it in a littlebit of detail with my team.
It was knowledge learning forall of us really, because you
never really understandsomething until you try to train
on it and you realise, oh,that's a very good question to
find that one out.
So I was on Dataverse and Isubmitted that through to them
(17:37):
along with a formal assessmenton the principles of engaging
classroom training, and thensubmitted that through was
successful and moved on totraining the actual courses
themselves.
So it's quite a lot of work forthe CompTIA in terms of meeting
(17:59):
the requirements.
But once you're in there andyou're either virtually or in
person doing that, that training, that assess piece of training
and onwards, you just come intoyour own really.
Mark Smith (18:10):
So, specifically for those listening, it was CTT
Plus as the actual trainingcourse.
Comptia do a lot of differentcourses.
My first one was, I think,called A Plus, which was how to
build computers right back inthe, you know, back in the day
when I started in IT and so, butyeah, the train the trainer was
(18:33):
a really good, or becoming anadult trainer was that program.
And you're right, people, oneperson on my course I remember
doing the class and everything.
We had a full classroomenvironment.
One person was an adulteducator of yoga and they were
using it to build out their yogatraining skills.
Yeah, so it's not not specificto IT, not at all, and it's
(18:58):
industry standard qualification.
Phil Glew-Deval (19:00):
And the great thing about it now is really
sort of buoyed on by the COVIDyears that I called them is the
ability to not just have theclassroom trainer element but
there's also a virtual classroomtrainer pathway between the two
so you know you can pick theone that's most suitable for you
, where your audience is goingto be, and it's all tailored
(19:21):
then to that kind ofcommunication channel.
So a classroom physicalclassroom trainer is about
engaging you know your physicalpresence whereas the virtual one
is how to use teams, how to useSkype to do breakout rooms.
How do you engage with thosepeople?
How are you getting yourmessage across?
How are you pausing for breath?
(19:42):
How are you bringing thesubject matter to life?
So there's two pathways thereand they're equally as brilliant
.
So it's definitely the firststep towards empty team.
I go again.
Mark Smith (19:58):
It's good.
The last question I havebecause we're at the 20 minute
mark already is the lastquestion I have is how did you
become an MVP?
Who nominated you?
What was involved?
Being that you've got itrecently, it'll be interesting
to hear how things were.
Phil Glew-Deval (20:14):
Yes, mvp for me was something that I always
wanted to aspire to.
I knew that the primary ofbecoming an MVP is really the
gift back to the community.
That's what it's all about.
So I created my blogpowerupwithfilcom Not quite sure
of the name now maybe I have tochange that, but that's what I
(20:35):
went with To record very shortshot videos and walkthrough
guides of how we can push power,how we can really extend its
boundaries.
So I got that all up andrunning and started very, very
small, with just a few littleblog posts on how to use
(20:56):
Dataverse.
In a certain way, my good friendof my, nick Fry, who works for
Microsoft, who I worked with ina previous life, has spotted
blogs, spotted what I was doingand nominated me for MVP, which
I remain always thankful to himfor.
(21:18):
It's, then, quite a longprocess for MVP because
obviously you need to keep goingon the blogging, the community
involvement, the conversationswith Microsoft as well.
It really helps.
So, at a time when PowerVirtual Agents was in its
(21:40):
infancy, I joined a workinggroup of what should PVA do?
What is it missing versus botframework as your bot framework,
and the two are never the samebecause of their underlying
infrastructure, but how can wemake PVA do some of the things
that bot framework can do in apro-code way?
That was a great piece for meto really get involved in the
(22:03):
future of Microsoft technology.
So the application submitted.
This is how it works in an appshell you get nominated, you put
forward everything aboutyourself, why you want to be MVP
, what is it about the MVPstatus and the MVP community
that is going to enhance theMicrosoft community overall?
(22:26):
And then there's the tensemoments of a month or two where
you wait for your application tobe reviewed, keep going, keep
on with your knowledge, sharingyour learning, your own personal
development, learning as well.
And then that magic email comesthrough mine came through early
May this year ofcongratulations, you've been
(22:48):
accepted in the MVP program.
And then there's thecelebration natural celebration
to come after, and you then arewelcomed.
So well, the MVP community isone of the most welcoming places
ever that you can never ask thewrong or bad question.
So, even if this is somethingthat is pretty fundamental that
(23:13):
maybe I've just never comeacross, I can ask the MVP
community, the distribution list, the groups that we are members
of how do I do this?
What am I doing wrong andsomeone will come back with
here's a link to the docs,something very straightforward,
but you just think, ah, that'sbrilliant.
(23:35):
And for those more taxingchallenges as well, and
sometimes when we encounter bugs, we're often the first people
to raise them with Microsoftdirectly and get them out, get
them sorted, or at leastworkarounds developed by the
Microsoft themselves, or all oneof us.
We'll help you do that to comeup with a workaround that
Tilifix can be put in.
(23:56):
So it's extremely rewarding tobe part of and the sky really is
no limit in this case theamount of development, the
amount of thought to each andevery problem, each and every
(24:19):
use case, each and every ideathat we want to try and achieve,
not just with power.
This is when VP really comesinto its own, because you're
exposed to all of the Microsofttechnologies and I've not come
across it yet, but I know othershave is when power maybe isn't
the best solution for something.
Chat with your mates, chat withyour other MVP, chat with the
(24:42):
community.
What is the best Microsoft pieceto solve this problem?
And if it's not power, you'llsoon get the answers to what it
really should be.
And just to close off, reallyfrom my MVP experience the
amount of times where we stillleverage some power capabilities
in something completely leftfield from Azure.
(25:05):
So Azure Internet things,keeval virtual machines, etc.
That don't really natively havetheir place in the power world,
so to speak, the twointeracting between each other
to bring a really fast andreally reliable solution to the
end user.
(25:26):
It happens more often thanpeople would think.
Mark Smith (25:32):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I'm your host businessapplication MVP Mark Smith,
otherwise known as the NZ365 guy.
If you like the show and wantto be a supporter, check out
buymeacoffeecom forward slashNZ365 guy.
Thanks again and see you nexttime.
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