FULL SHOW NOTES
https://www.microsoftinnovationpodcast.com/580
Imagine discovering a whole new career path through unexpected turns and community support. That’s exactly what happened to our special guest, Heidi Jordan, an MVP from South Dakota and manager at Avanade. From an aspiring math teacher to a problem-solving business analyst and finally a tech leader in business intelligence and SharePoint, Heidi's journey is nothing short of inspiring. Listen in as she shares the pivotal moment in 2016 when she stumbled upon the Power Platform and how it propelled her into the tech world. Heidi’s personal anecdotes about her love for cooking, family time, and enduring South Dakota winters add a heartfelt touch to her remarkable story.
In this episode, Heidi also opens up about the challenges and triumphs she faced while transitioning to the Power Platform, including becoming a "Flowmaster" and dealing with complex migrations without prior experience. The importance of community support and mentorship becomes evident as she recounts how impactful mentors and opportunities like attending conferences helped shape her career. Heidi reveals why she moved from the customer side to the partner side of the tech industry, driven by a desire to stay dynamic and avoid repetitive projects. This is a must-listen for anyone curious about how unexpected career paths and community involvement can lead to extraordinary achievements.
OTHER RESOURCES:
Microsoft MVP YouTube Series - How to Become a Microsoft MVP
90-Day Mentoring Challenge - https://ako.nz365guy.com/
If you want to get in touch with me, you can message me here on Linkedin.
Thanks for listening 🚀 - Mark Smith
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Smith (00:06):
Welcome to the MVP show.
My intention is that you listento the stories of these MVP
guests and are inspired tobecome an MVP and bring value to
the world through your skills.
If you have not checked it outalready, I do a YouTube series
called how to Become an MVP.
The link is in the show notes.
With that, let's get on withthe show.
(00:31):
Today's guest is from SouthDakota, the United States.
She works at Avanade as amanager.
She was first awarded her MVPin 2023.
She actively participates inindustry conferences, community
days and user group speakingevents, sharing her insights and
connecting with fellowenthusiasts.
(00:51):
She specializes in no-codedesign and is passionate about
implementing custom solutionsthat satisfy both business and
user needs.
You can find links to her bioand social media, et cetera, in
the show notes for this episode.
As always, welcome to the show,Heidi.
Heidi Jordan (01:07):
Hello, thanks for having me, Mark.
This is really awesome to behere.
Mark Smith (01:11):
Good to have you on the show.
I always like to start off withgetting some background.
So with that in mind, food,family and fun what do they mean
to you?
Heidi Jordan (01:22):
Well, the food.
I'll start with that one.
Food is actually like mytherapy, not just in eating, but
I love to cook.
I love to watch food.
Food Network is how I fallasleep at night.
I love to watch cooking videosand shows and stuff.
So that's kind of how I feelabout food.
Fun and family those are two ofthe same thing.
We like to have a lot of funwith my family.
I'm very busy.
(01:43):
I've got three boys 21, eightand five.
So we do a lot of baseballgames and football games, lots
of sports and constantly runningaround to that stuff.
We try and take most of thesummer and head up to the lake
on the weekends and do someboating and just kind of
disconnect from the plugged inworld that we have here in South
Dakota.
(02:03):
So love to spend time on thelake, love to watch sports all
winter when it's snowing, youknow, eight months out of the
year in South Dakota.
So it's kind of what we do forfun.
Eight months of the year itsnows Bit of exaggeration, but
more like six.
But yeah, we do get a ton ofsnow in the winter so we don't
go too far.
Mark Smith (02:20):
Well, I'm the opposite.
I never drop below negativefive degrees Celsius.
Sorry, I never drop growthpositive five degrees Celsius.
So I don't know what that's inFahrenheit, but it means I don't
even get a frost.
Heidi Jordan (02:35):
That seems pretty mild.
Mark Smith (02:35):
Consider yourself lucky, yeah, yeah.
So snow is something I go tovisit, to go skiing.
I don't ever have it local.
Very cool, very cool.
Tell me about your story.
How did you get into tech?
How did you get to where youare today?
Heidi Jordan (02:49):
Yeah, I guess it all starts back in college.
You know, I think it's funnythat we go to college too.
We have this idea of what we'regoing to be and then it
completely goes a differentdirection, which is why I love
hearing stories of MVPs and howthey started.
So I was pretty similar.
I went to school to teach math.
So I actually have a backgroundin math and I was going to be a
math teacher and that was mylife plan.
(03:11):
And then I got out of school andapplied at a bank because there
was no teaching jobs and theysaw my resume with the problem
solving, the math skills andthey're like we think you should
be a business analyst.
I said, okay, I don't know whatthat is, but I'll do it.
So connecting that problemsolving with skills with the
issues that the bank was having,and particularly in the
(03:31):
business intelligence department, that was just really a good
fit for me to be a businessanalyst.
So I think that that reallygave me my solid background
today in SharePoint.
That's really where my strengthlies, is in SharePoint.
But you know, being a businessanalyst, you get to see the
databases behind the scenes, theSQL you get to get into, the
(03:52):
reporting you get to work withthe business itself and
gathering requirements andmaking that happen, you know, in
the end product.
So I think that was kind of mysolid base there and did that
for a while.
And then in 2016, when I stillremember where I was when they
announced the Power Platform andwhen Power Automate would flow
(04:15):
back in the day like I stillremember what I was doing
exactly, I knew that I had to bea part of that.
So my current job wasn't readyto go online, so I went
somewhere else it was, and Ireally took a shift from the
SharePoint on-prem world to theonline world and jumped in, you
know, both feet first, and eversince then that's all I've been
doing is the online stuff.
(04:35):
And then really that kind ofgot me connected to some other
people in the community andthat's really the second half of
my story, which I'll pausethere because that's kind of a
long way through.
Mark Smith (04:46):
No, that's brilliant .
That's brilliant.
It's interesting.
You talk about online, or youknow, and previously being
on-prem, and I find now, for thelast three years, I don't think
I've ever had an on-premconversation anymore.
It's only ever.
Heidi Jordan (05:00):
There are still people out there.
Mark Smith (05:03):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
I think people are panickingthat SharePoint end of life
on-prem, isn't it 2026 orsomething like that?
Yep, I think that's whatthey're saying, those last folks
to come on.
But also I'm seeing somemassive sharepoint
(05:23):
implementations up around youknow, in the tens of millions of
dollars in storage per year andonline for really large
enterprise organizations.
Heidi Jordan (05:32):
So it's still definitely a big workhorse right
for many orgs absolutely, andit's still the back end to a
whole lot of stuff that we usetoday and people don't quite
understand that in some cases sotell us, you fell in love with
the Power Platform, as did I.
Mark Smith (05:47):
It only got the name Power Platform, I think, in
2019.
I think it got that name aftera year, right?
2016 is when Power Apps cameout, and Steven Siciliano with
Flow.
I wish I had not lost.
I had a Flow shirt back in theday and I've kept my Power App
original shirt, but I haven'tgot my Flow one for some reason.
So tell me what happened then.
(06:09):
So what was your journey onceyou had started building
solutions using those new tools?
Heidi Jordan (06:15):
Sure, yeah, I remember telling my boss at the
time that my new job title wasgoing to be Flowmaster.
I specifically remember thatbecause I loved the name Flow.
But yeah, once I started doingthat it's a funny story when I
started the next job to do thePower Platform, I was really
excited about this and I got thejob and they had a SharePoint
online migration that they weretrying to do.
(06:37):
They're like we need to get toonline so we can go use this
power platform, et cetera.
I was like, okay, sounds good,let's do the online migration
first.
And I started day one.
I was ready to do the migrationand then they tasked me with
you need to remove our thirdparty workflow system and move
us to the power platform.
And I was like I have neverworked with power platform
before.
I know it's awesome and I knowthat I want to use it, but I
(06:58):
don't know how to do it.
So that's really how I got myroots in.
It is.
I had to learn from thetrenches ground up.
This was at the time when therewasn't that much stuff out there
.
Honestly, it was so new andthere were so many.
The only things we had werevideos and the people in the
community that really embracedthis and ran with it.
There's no history books on thePower Platform.
It came out in whatever yearand that was it.
(07:19):
So I had to kind of cultivateall my resources through videos
and the community and learningand I built my first Power App.
I tell everyone it took me ninemonths, because low code does
not mean easy, it does not meanlow complexity.
You know, this still takes alot, especially when you're
doing it for the first time andthen implementing it to an
organization that has neverheard of it either, and then
implementing it to anorganization that has never
(07:40):
heard of it either.
So that really got me going onmy first application and then
Flows and then really just keptdoing those kinds of solutions,
just rinse and repeat, for thatsame organization for many years
.
Mark Smith (07:52):
What was that very first step?
What was the design for?
Heidi Jordan (07:57):
The first application.
Yeah, so there was a coupledifferent use cases and the one
was like a document reviewsystem, kind of like the
policies, procedures and thingsthat have to be reviewed on a
yearly basis, and then also aproject management tool.
So they were using thisthird-party workflow for those
two specific use cases and theywanted to remove that and
(08:20):
replace it with the PowerPlatform.
Mark Smith (08:23):
Nice, nice, if you look across your career to date,
what's kind of been the careerhighlights and this might go
pre-Power Platform, but whathave been?
And when I think about careerhighlights, I'm talking about
were there key people thatmentored you?
What were the inflection pointsthat you, when you look back
(08:44):
across your career, like I'mglad I made that decision that
led to this, that type of thing.
Heidi Jordan (08:49):
I think you made a good point there.
Excuse me, it's always thepeople that I remember.
It's the people that made mefeel recognized and enabled to
reach for the stars here and dothese things, and one of my very
first managers really.
She always made a point to sendus to trainings, for example.
You cannot replace thatin-person training that you get
(09:12):
when you go to these conferences, and so, whether I was ready or
not, she would send me to theseconferences because she knew
that I would just go, immersemyself and learn and come back
and bring all those things backto my daily life and just be
rejuvenated.
And so that, in particular, andjust the way she trained me to
answer to emails and to workwith others in the organization,
(09:33):
like with a positive manner, Ithink that those things are
really what keeps me driving tothe success I'm having today.
So I would say for sure her.
And then the other token is amentor.
At that job I reached the topof.
No one else understoodSharePoint at the level I did.
I had nowhere else to look up,and that's when you have to look
(09:54):
outside.
So that's when I reached out tomy friend, liz Sunda at
Microsoft and she was my mentorfor a couple of years and really
brought me to the next.
You know, just kept me goingdown that technical path.
Mark Smith (10:07):
Nice.
You mentioned email, lynn, andit's those little sparks of how
you do something that can impactpeople.
How you do something that canimpact people when you say she
taught you about how to you knowbecause I think email is such
an important part still ofcommunication in business what
did she teach you?
(10:28):
What kind of stuck with you?
What do you take or do now whenyou advise others around email
management?
Heidi Jordan (10:34):
I think that honestly, in college I also took
a technical writing class whichat the time was awful, Like we
had to do things like write amanual for the microwave, Like
how do you know and think aboutall the steps of how you unbox
the food and how you put it inthem, like very technical,
detailed that and being verythorough in emails and then also
(10:55):
with the positive tone and youknow, always step back and take
a breath before you respond,Like I learned that.
So never respond angry, and Ialways leave the end of my
emails like please let me knowif there's anything else I can
do.
Whether I mean it or not, Ithink it's a good salutation to
close the email and just let thepeople know that you're still
(11:15):
there and willing to help.
Mark Smith (11:17):
I like it Very cool, Very cool.
Good advice.
Tell me you obviously didn'tstay at customer side.
You made a transition topartner side.
What was that transition foryou?
Heidi Jordan (11:31):
Yeah, so after working a couple of local
organizations, I went toconsulting and the reason I'd
switched is because I got sickof doing the same stuff every
day.
So you know, not every day, butit was kind of the same
projects over and over again andI you can kind of feel yourself
plateauing and your skills,your skill set, and you know, I
(11:54):
think there's a quote of like,if you're comfortable, you're
doing something wrong, like atyour job, and that's how I was
comfortable.
So I wanted to get out thereand be scared and start to do
some new projects and that wasreally what drove me to move
into the consulting world.
Mark Smith (12:09):
And how long have you been consulting now?
Heidi Jordan (12:11):
So I did a small firm for a couple of years, but
then I've been with Avanade fortwo years now.
Mark Smith (12:17):
Nice, four years total-ish.
Okay, Can you give me somecomparisons between partner side
?
Because a lot of people ask me,when it comes to career
advancement, what are my options?
And I say, well, there's reallythree different organization
groups you can work for.
You can work for Microsoft,ultimately go, you know, get a
(12:38):
blue badge and work for themothership.
You can work partner side oryou can work in customer.
So you've been in those two.
What's your?
If you were to do a comparisonpros and cons between working
for customer, working forpartner, what do they look like
for you?
Heidi Jordan (12:54):
That's a great question.
I think that one of the hardestparts of consulting is coming
into the organization and youhave to learn the culture and
how things work in very shorttime.
You know, if you come in as aclient the client side you get a
wonderful orientation programand culture and everyone knows
your name.
But when you come in as aconsultant, you have to learn
(13:16):
how it works fast, because it'syour job to be successful and
keep things moving, regardlessof how they work.
So you got to learn fast.
But one of the plus sides isthat you can work with those
clients and then you can see howyou can draw from your
experience from otherengagements.
So you kind of learn how thingswork and then that really just
builds your skill set.
So you become this bigconglomerate that has all this
(13:39):
information and knowledge of howyou can best help the client.
And I think that's why theylike working with consultants
too in larger firms is thatthey've we're the people that
have done this for everyone elseand we've drawn our own lessons
learned from that and um andare able to move them forward
nice, nice, I like it.
Mark Smith (13:57):
Um, what's up on mine for you right now?
Right, we're in, we're in uh2024 there's.
In the last few years, we'veseen a lot of announcements and
a lot of changes insidemicrosoft, around co-pilot, of
course, so so, when you look atyour runway for the next 12
months, the rest of this year,what does that look like for you
(14:19):
?
Heidi Jordan (14:20):
That's another great question.
So I do a lot of speakingevents.
I have a lot of that on tapthis year.
So particularly the PowerPlatform Conference is coming up
.
So I am working on that andjust trying to immerse myself in
the Power Platform.
Still, copilot has taken overmy life a little bit.
I've been doing a lot ofCopilot, m365 Copilot.
(14:42):
I do see in my future a lotmore of those engagements and
doing that tech readiness.
I think having a SharePointbackground is key for this
Copilot stuff because obviouslyCopilot can only leverage the
things it has access to andSharePoint is one of those
places it can access.
So bringing my skills with theSharePoint background and
merging that into some Copilotengagements will be in my future
(15:06):
for sure, but trying to stayclose to the Power Platform too.
Like I mentioned, I do a lot ofM365 these days and I kind of
miss my Power Platform friends.
So I'm trying to revisitCopilot Studio and some of those
other things that are comingout.
Mark Smith (15:21):
So what are you speaking on in Vegas?
Heidi Jordan (15:24):
So I have two sessions.
I'm actually doing a sessionwith Eliza Benitez.
Mark Smith (15:28):
I think her name is Benitez.
Yeah, she's from my country.
Heidi Jordan (15:31):
Yes, she is.
So we are doing a co-session onthe approvals kit for power
automate and then how you canalso leverage copilot studio to
connect to that so that you cansee, like, where your approvals
are at and what process they'rein.
And then I have a secondsession on power automate and
teams and the integrationsbetween the two of those.
(15:52):
It's a lot of Power Automate atthis conference.
Mark Smith (15:55):
Nice, nice, nice.
I might see you there.
I'm also speaking.
Tell me the MVP program.
How did you end up finding outabout it?
Getting involved, how did youget nominated?
Tell me a bit about that.
Heidi Jordan (16:12):
Sure.
So I found out from I rememberit was in 2019.
I remember from my mentor, lizI have been attending the
conferences and the SharePointSaturdays and things for years.
As I mentioned.
My manager, you know, alwaysencouraged me to go to those and
I got to that point where I wasready to take what I know from
(16:35):
all this stuff and share it withothers.
So my mentor said, like youshould be a speaker.
And I kind of laughed at herlike no, it's not for me, but
you know you gather all thisstuff from other people.
It's time to share with theworld.
So you know, I am gravitatingtowards those things that I'm
scared of, and that was one ofthem.
So I started doing speakingevents.
(16:56):
I did my first one in Januaryof 2020, I think, and then
everything shut down.
So I had just gotten thiswonderful first event and I had
a great crowd.
It was like the highestattended of the session time.
I was so excited and theneverything shut down.
So then I really kind of had alull in there of like how do I
continue to be a part of thisand this community from home, on
(17:20):
lockdown?
So I also, I just continuedoing speaking events.
I tried to do some virtual usergroups.
I think that my goal is reallyjust to share what I've learned
with others in hopes thatsomeone can benefit from it, and
that is one thing she told me,too, when I asked her about the
MVP program.
Goal is really just to sharewhat I've learned with others in
hopes that someone can benefitfrom it, and that is one thing
she told me too, when I askedher about the MVP program.
She said you don't seek it, itfinds you, and you should be
(17:42):
asking what can I do for thecommunity, rather than how do I
become an MVP?
And that kind of resonated withme.
So I just kept working, keepdoing my sessions and work, and
I started a blog just keep trackof it.
And then she ended upnominating me in 2022, I think,
is when I got nominated.
Mark Smith (18:02):
Wow, awesome, awesome.
That is so good and such a goodstory.
Last question I have for youbefore we go before we go,
what's been, if you were topoint to one automation or one
(18:22):
app or one solution that youhave done?
What's kind of like the storythat you tell about once I built
XYZ and it had this impact.
What is that for you?
Heidi Jordan (18:28):
I think that it was definitely that first one
that I built that documentcontrol solution and that one I
do lots of variations with onsessions.
And really the root of thestory was how to take that out
of InfoPath into Power Apps,because that is something that
everyone should do.
If they haven't, if theyhaven't looked into it, they
should start looking at runningan InfoPath from their
(18:50):
environment.
But, you know, learning Ididn't know it still existed.
I thought it was all gone.
It's in the wild still.
Yeah, there's still some outthere.
It is, yep, but I think that'sone of them.
But also, you know, buildingthat form solution, also
considering some of those.
Don't just build your solutions.
You need to actually take astep back and work with the end
(19:11):
users first.
You know a lot of times they'redoing these things, that
they're just done forever, andthat's why we've always done it.
You know and you say, but why?
And then you have theseconversations about what is
possible, not about thetechnology.
You know this is what you'redoing.
Let me see.
Do you need to do that?
You know, and then you canstart to connect those dots and
then work that into the tool setthat we have available as
(19:34):
technicians.
Mark Smith (19:38):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I'm your host businessapplication MVP Mark Smith,
otherwise known as the NZ365 guy.
If you like the show and wantto be a supporter, check out
buymeacoffeecom forward slashNZ365 guy.
Thanks again and see you nexttime.
Thank you.
Welcome to the MVP show.
My intention is that you listento the stories of these MVP
guests and are inspired tobecome an MVP and bring value to
the world through your skills.
If you have not checked it outalready, I do a YouTube series
called how to Become an MVP.
The link is in the show notes.
With that, let's get on withthe show.
(00:31):
Today's guest is from SouthDakota, the United States.
She works at Avanade as amanager.
She was first awarded her MVPin 2023.
She actively participates inindustry conferences, community
days and user group speakingevents, sharing her insights and
connecting with fellowenthusiasts.
(00:51):
She specializes in no-codedesign and is passionate about
implementing custom solutionsthat satisfy both business and
user needs.
You can find links to her bioand social media, et cetera, in
the show notes for this episode.
As always, welcome to the show,Heidi.
Heidi Jordan (01:07):
Hello, thanks for having me, Mark.
This is really awesome to behere.
Mark Smith (01:11):
Good to have you on the show.
I always like to start off withgetting some background.
So with that in mind, food,family and fun what do they mean
to you?
Heidi Jordan (01:22):
Well, the food.
I'll start with that one.
Food is actually like mytherapy, not just in eating, but
I love to cook.
I love to watch food.
Food Network is how I fallasleep at night.
I love to watch cooking videosand shows and stuff.
So that's kind of how I feelabout food.
Fun and family those are two ofthe same thing.
We like to have a lot of funwith my family.
I'm very busy.
(01:43):
I've got three boys 21, eightand five.
So we do a lot of baseballgames and football games, lots
of sports and constantly runningaround to that stuff.
We try and take most of thesummer and head up to the lake
on the weekends and do someboating and just kind of
disconnect from the plugged inworld that we have here in South
Dakota.
(02:03):
So love to spend time on thelake, love to watch sports all
winter when it's snowing, youknow, eight months out of the
year in South Dakota.
So it's kind of what we do forfun.
Eight months of the year itsnows Bit of exaggeration, but
more like six.
But yeah, we do get a ton ofsnow in the winter so we don't
go too far.
Mark Smith (02:20):
Well, I'm the opposite.
I never drop below negativefive degrees Celsius.
Sorry, I never drop growthpositive five degrees Celsius.
So I don't know what that's inFahrenheit, but it means I don't
even get a frost.
Heidi Jordan (02:35):
That seems pretty mild.
Mark Smith (02:35):
Consider yourself lucky, yeah, yeah.
So snow is something I go tovisit, to go skiing.
I don't ever have it local.
Very cool, very cool.
Tell me about your story.
How did you get into tech?
How did you get to where youare today?
Heidi Jordan (02:49):
Yeah, I guess it all starts back in college.
You know, I think it's funnythat we go to college too.
We have this idea of what we'regoing to be and then it
completely goes a differentdirection, which is why I love
hearing stories of MVPs and howthey started.
So I was pretty similar.
I went to school to teach math.
So I actually have a backgroundin math and I was going to be a
math teacher and that was mylife plan.
(03:11):
And then I got out of school andapplied at a bank because there
was no teaching jobs and theysaw my resume with the problem
solving, the math skills andthey're like we think you should
be a business analyst.
I said, okay, I don't know whatthat is, but I'll do it.
So connecting that problemsolving with skills with the
issues that the bank was having,and particularly in the
(03:31):
business intelligence department, that was just really a good
fit for me to be a businessanalyst.
So I think that that reallygave me my solid background
today in SharePoint.
That's really where my strengthlies, is in SharePoint.
But you know, being a businessanalyst, you get to see the
databases behind the scenes, theSQL you get to get into, the
(03:52):
reporting you get to work withthe business itself and
gathering requirements andmaking that happen, you know, in
the end product.
So I think that was kind of mysolid base there and did that
for a while.
And then in 2016, when I stillremember where I was when they
announced the Power Platform andwhen Power Automate would flow
(04:15):
back in the day like I stillremember what I was doing
exactly, I knew that I had to bea part of that.
So my current job wasn't readyto go online, so I went
somewhere else it was, and Ireally took a shift from the
SharePoint on-prem world to theonline world and jumped in, you
know, both feet first, and eversince then that's all I've been
doing is the online stuff.
(04:35):
And then really that kind ofgot me connected to some other
people in the community andthat's really the second half of
my story, which I'll pausethere because that's kind of a
long way through.
Mark Smith (04:46):
No, that's brilliant .
That's brilliant.
It's interesting.
You talk about online, or youknow, and previously being
on-prem, and I find now, for thelast three years, I don't think
I've ever had an on-premconversation anymore.
It's only ever.
Heidi Jordan (05:00):
There are still people out there.
Mark Smith (05:03):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
I think people are panickingthat SharePoint end of life
on-prem, isn't it 2026 orsomething like that?
Yep, I think that's whatthey're saying, those last folks
to come on.
But also I'm seeing somemassive sharepoint
(05:23):
implementations up around youknow, in the tens of millions of
dollars in storage per year andonline for really large
enterprise organizations.
Heidi Jordan (05:32):
So it's still definitely a big workhorse right
for many orgs absolutely, andit's still the back end to a
whole lot of stuff that we usetoday and people don't quite
understand that in some cases sotell us, you fell in love with
the Power Platform, as did I.
Mark Smith (05:47):
It only got the name Power Platform, I think, in
2019.
I think it got that name aftera year, right?
2016 is when Power Apps cameout, and Steven Siciliano with
Flow.
I wish I had not lost.
I had a Flow shirt back in theday and I've kept my Power App
original shirt, but I haven'tgot my Flow one for some reason.
So tell me what happened then.
(06:09):
So what was your journey onceyou had started building
solutions using those new tools?
Heidi Jordan (06:15):
Sure, yeah, I remember telling my boss at the
time that my new job title wasgoing to be Flowmaster.
I specifically remember thatbecause I loved the name Flow.
But yeah, once I started doingthat it's a funny story when I
started the next job to do thePower Platform, I was really
excited about this and I got thejob and they had a SharePoint
online migration that they weretrying to do.
(06:37):
They're like we need to get toonline so we can go use this
power platform, et cetera.
I was like, okay, sounds good,let's do the online migration
first.
And I started day one.
I was ready to do the migrationand then they tasked me with
you need to remove our thirdparty workflow system and move
us to the power platform.
And I was like I have neverworked with power platform
before.
I know it's awesome and I knowthat I want to use it, but I
(06:58):
don't know how to do it.
So that's really how I got myroots in.
It is.
I had to learn from thetrenches ground up.
This was at the time when therewasn't that much stuff out there
.
Honestly, it was so new andthere were so many.
The only things we had werevideos and the people in the
community that really embracedthis and ran with it.
There's no history books on thePower Platform.
It came out in whatever yearand that was it.
(07:19):
So I had to kind of cultivateall my resources through videos
and the community and learningand I built my first Power App.
I tell everyone it took me ninemonths, because low code does
not mean easy, it does not meanlow complexity.
You know, this still takes alot, especially when you're
doing it for the first time andthen implementing it to an
organization that has neverheard of it either, and then
implementing it to anorganization that has never
(07:40):
heard of it either.
So that really got me going onmy first application and then
Flows and then really just keptdoing those kinds of solutions,
just rinse and repeat, for thatsame organization for many years
.
Mark Smith (07:52):
What was that very first step?
What was the design for?
Heidi Jordan (07:57):
The first application.
Yeah, so there was a coupledifferent use cases and the one
was like a document reviewsystem, kind of like the
policies, procedures and thingsthat have to be reviewed on a
yearly basis, and then also aproject management tool.
So they were using thisthird-party workflow for those
two specific use cases and theywanted to remove that and
(08:20):
replace it with the PowerPlatform.
Mark Smith (08:23):
Nice, nice, if you look across your career to date,
what's kind of been the careerhighlights and this might go
pre-Power Platform, but whathave been?
And when I think about careerhighlights, I'm talking about
were there key people thatmentored you?
What were the inflection pointsthat you, when you look back
(08:44):
across your career, like I'mglad I made that decision that
led to this, that type of thing.
Heidi Jordan (08:49):
I think you made a good point there.
Excuse me, it's always thepeople that I remember.
It's the people that made mefeel recognized and enabled to
reach for the stars here and dothese things, and one of my very
first managers really.
She always made a point to sendus to trainings, for example.
You cannot replace thatin-person training that you get
(09:12):
when you go to these conferences, and so, whether I was ready or
not, she would send me to theseconferences because she knew
that I would just go, immersemyself and learn and come back
and bring all those things backto my daily life and just be
rejuvenated.
And so that, in particular, andjust the way she trained me to
answer to emails and to workwith others in the organization,
(09:33):
like with a positive manner, Ithink that those things are
really what keeps me driving tothe success I'm having today.
So I would say for sure her.
And then the other token is amentor.
At that job I reached the topof.
No one else understoodSharePoint at the level I did.
I had nowhere else to look up,and that's when you have to look
(09:54):
outside.
So that's when I reached out tomy friend, liz Sunda at
Microsoft and she was my mentorfor a couple of years and really
brought me to the next.
You know, just kept me goingdown that technical path.
Mark Smith (10:07):
Nice.
You mentioned email, lynn, andit's those little sparks of how
you do something that can impactpeople.
How you do something that canimpact people when you say she
taught you about how to you knowbecause I think email is such
an important part still ofcommunication in business what
did she teach you?
(10:28):
What kind of stuck with you?
What do you take or do now whenyou advise others around email
management?
Heidi Jordan (10:34):
I think that honestly, in college I also took
a technical writing class whichat the time was awful, Like we
had to do things like write amanual for the microwave, Like
how do you know and think aboutall the steps of how you unbox
the food and how you put it inthem, like very technical,
detailed that and being verythorough in emails and then also
(10:55):
with the positive tone and youknow, always step back and take
a breath before you respond,Like I learned that.
So never respond angry, and Ialways leave the end of my
emails like please let me knowif there's anything else I can
do.
Whether I mean it or not, Ithink it's a good salutation to
close the email and just let thepeople know that you're still
(11:15):
there and willing to help.
Mark Smith (11:17):
I like it Very cool, Very cool.
Good advice.
Tell me you obviously didn'tstay at customer side.
You made a transition topartner side.
What was that transition foryou?
Heidi Jordan (11:31):
Yeah, so after working a couple of local
organizations, I went toconsulting and the reason I'd
switched is because I got sickof doing the same stuff every
day.
So you know, not every day, butit was kind of the same
projects over and over again andI you can kind of feel yourself
plateauing and your skills,your skill set, and you know, I
(11:54):
think there's a quote of like,if you're comfortable, you're
doing something wrong, like atyour job, and that's how I was
comfortable.
So I wanted to get out thereand be scared and start to do
some new projects and that wasreally what drove me to move
into the consulting world.
Mark Smith (12:09):
And how long have you been consulting now?
Heidi Jordan (12:11):
So I did a small firm for a couple of years, but
then I've been with Avanade fortwo years now.
Mark Smith (12:17):
Nice, four years total-ish.
Okay, Can you give me somecomparisons between partner side
?
Because a lot of people ask me,when it comes to career
advancement, what are my options?
And I say, well, there's reallythree different organization
groups you can work for.
You can work for Microsoft,ultimately go, you know, get a
(12:38):
blue badge and work for themothership.
You can work partner side oryou can work in customer.
So you've been in those two.
What's your?
If you were to do a comparisonpros and cons between working
for customer, working forpartner, what do they look like
for you?
Heidi Jordan (12:54):
That's a great question.
I think that one of the hardestparts of consulting is coming
into the organization and youhave to learn the culture and
how things work in very shorttime.
You know, if you come in as aclient the client side you get a
wonderful orientation programand culture and everyone knows
your name.
But when you come in as aconsultant, you have to learn
(13:16):
how it works fast, because it'syour job to be successful and
keep things moving, regardlessof how they work.
So you got to learn fast.
But one of the plus sides isthat you can work with those
clients and then you can see howyou can draw from your
experience from otherengagements.
So you kind of learn how thingswork and then that really just
builds your skill set.
So you become this bigconglomerate that has all this
(13:39):
information and knowledge of howyou can best help the client.
And I think that's why theylike working with consultants
too in larger firms is thatthey've we're the people that
have done this for everyone elseand we've drawn our own lessons
learned from that and um andare able to move them forward
nice, nice, I like it.
Mark Smith (13:57):
Um, what's up on mine for you right now?
Right, we're in, we're in uh2024 there's.
In the last few years, we'veseen a lot of announcements and
a lot of changes insidemicrosoft, around co-pilot, of
course, so so, when you look atyour runway for the next 12
months, the rest of this year,what does that look like for you
(14:19):
?
Heidi Jordan (14:20):
That's another great question.
So I do a lot of speakingevents.
I have a lot of that on tapthis year.
So particularly the PowerPlatform Conference is coming up
.
So I am working on that andjust trying to immerse myself in
the Power Platform.
Still, copilot has taken overmy life a little bit.
I've been doing a lot ofCopilot, m365 Copilot.
(14:42):
I do see in my future a lotmore of those engagements and
doing that tech readiness.
I think having a SharePointbackground is key for this
Copilot stuff because obviouslyCopilot can only leverage the
things it has access to andSharePoint is one of those
places it can access.
So bringing my skills with theSharePoint background and
merging that into some Copilotengagements will be in my future
(15:06):
for sure, but trying to stayclose to the Power Platform too.
Like I mentioned, I do a lot ofM365 these days and I kind of
miss my Power Platform friends.
So I'm trying to revisitCopilot Studio and some of those
other things that are comingout.
Mark Smith (15:21):
So what are you speaking on in Vegas?
Heidi Jordan (15:24):
So I have two sessions.
I'm actually doing a sessionwith Eliza Benitez.
Mark Smith (15:28):
I think her name is Benitez.
Yeah, she's from my country.
Heidi Jordan (15:31):
Yes, she is.
So we are doing a co-session onthe approvals kit for power
automate and then how you canalso leverage copilot studio to
connect to that so that you cansee, like, where your approvals
are at and what process they'rein.
And then I have a secondsession on power automate and
teams and the integrationsbetween the two of those.
(15:52):
It's a lot of Power Automate atthis conference.
Mark Smith (15:55):
Nice, nice, nice.
I might see you there.
I'm also speaking.
Tell me the MVP program.
How did you end up finding outabout it?
Getting involved, how did youget nominated?
Tell me a bit about that.
Heidi Jordan (16:12):
Sure.
So I found out from I rememberit was in 2019.
I remember from my mentor, lizI have been attending the
conferences and the SharePointSaturdays and things for years.
As I mentioned.
My manager, you know, alwaysencouraged me to go to those and
I got to that point where I wasready to take what I know from
(16:35):
all this stuff and share it withothers.
So my mentor said, like youshould be a speaker.
And I kind of laughed at herlike no, it's not for me, but
you know you gather all thisstuff from other people.
It's time to share with theworld.
So you know, I am gravitatingtowards those things that I'm
scared of, and that was one ofthem.
So I started doing speakingevents.
(16:56):
I did my first one in Januaryof 2020, I think, and then
everything shut down.
So I had just gotten thiswonderful first event and I had
a great crowd.
It was like the highestattended of the session time.
I was so excited and theneverything shut down.
So then I really kind of had alull in there of like how do I
continue to be a part of thisand this community from home, on
(17:20):
lockdown?
So I also, I just continuedoing speaking events.
I tried to do some virtual usergroups.
I think that my goal is reallyjust to share what I've learned
with others in hopes thatsomeone can benefit from it, and
that is one thing she told me,too, when I asked her about the
MVP program.
Goal is really just to sharewhat I've learned with others in
hopes that someone can benefitfrom it, and that is one thing
she told me too, when I askedher about the MVP program.
She said you don't seek it, itfinds you, and you should be
(17:42):
asking what can I do for thecommunity, rather than how do I
become an MVP?
And that kind of resonated withme.
So I just kept working, keepdoing my sessions and work, and
I started a blog just keep trackof it.
And then she ended upnominating me in 2022, I think,
is when I got nominated.
Mark Smith (18:02):
Wow, awesome, awesome.
That is so good and such a goodstory.
Last question I have for youbefore we go before we go,
what's been, if you were topoint to one automation or one
(18:22):
app or one solution that youhave done?
What's kind of like the storythat you tell about once I built
XYZ and it had this impact.
What is that for you?
Heidi Jordan (18:28):
I think that it was definitely that first one
that I built that documentcontrol solution and that one I
do lots of variations with onsessions.
And really the root of thestory was how to take that out
of InfoPath into Power Apps,because that is something that
everyone should do.
If they haven't, if theyhaven't looked into it, they
should start looking at runningan InfoPath from their
(18:50):
environment.
But, you know, learning Ididn't know it still existed.
I thought it was all gone.
It's in the wild still.
Yeah, there's still some outthere.
It is, yep, but I think that'sone of them.
But also, you know, buildingthat form solution, also
considering some of those.
Don't just build your solutions.
You need to actually take astep back and work with the end
(19:11):
users first.
You know a lot of times they'redoing these things, that
they're just done forever, andthat's why we've always done it.
You know and you say, but why?
And then you have theseconversations about what is
possible, not about thetechnology.
You know this is what you'redoing.
Let me see.
Do you need to do that?
You know, and then you canstart to connect those dots and
then work that into the tool setthat we have available as
(19:34):
technicians.
Mark Smith (19:38):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I'm your host businessapplication MVP Mark Smith,
otherwise known as the NZ365 guy.
If you like the show and wantto be a supporter, check out
buymeacoffeecom forward slashNZ365 guy.
Thanks again and see you nexttime.
Thank you.
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