May 20, 2025 • 32 mins
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FULL SHOW NOTES
https://www.microsoftinnovationpodcast.com/689
In a world where AI is reshaping how we build, lead, and learn, standing still is no longer an option. In this episode, the Ecosystem Show team dives into the evolving role of Microsoft partners, the rise of “vibe coding,” and the critical mindsets needed to thrive in tech’s next chapter. Whether you're navigating AI adoption, rethinking your Power Platform strategy, or simply trying to stay relevant in a fast-changing landscape, this conversation offers clarity, challenge, and a roadmap forward.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
AI demands new mental models: Success in the AI era requires critical thinking, constant learning, and a willingness to challenge assumptions—even those served up by machines.
Power Platform is evolving fast: It’s no longer just low-code—it’s becoming the enterprise-grade “vibe coding” platform, integrating seamlessly with advanced tools and governance systems.
Trustworthy AI is non-negotiable: Leaders must embed safety, transparency, and validation into every AI practice. Microsoft’s internal frameworks offer a strong starting point.
The partner landscape is shifting: The best Microsoft partners are transforming their culture, offerings, and delivery models to meet the demands of AI-native enterprises.
Your career is your responsibility: In a time of layoffs and disruption, professionals must take ownership of their growth by developing adaptive, future-focused mindsets.
RESOURCES MENTIONED
👉 Dynamics Minds Conference – https://dynamicsminds.com
👉 Forrester Wave Report – https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/power-platform/blog/power-apps/microsoft-is-a-leader-in-2025-forrester-wave-low-code-platforms-for-professional-developers/
👉 Microsoft's Trustworthy AI Framework – https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/ai-foundry/responsible-use-of-ai-overview
This year we're adding a new show to our line up - The AI Advantage. We'll discuss the skills you need to thrive in an AI-enabled world.
Accelerate your Microsoft career with the 90 Day Mentoring Challenge
We’ve helped 1,300+ people across 70+ countries establish successful careers in the Microsoft Power Platform and Dynamics 365 ecosystem.
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If you want to get in touch with me, you can message me here on Linkedin.
Thanks for listening 🚀 - Mark Smith
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Smith (00:01):
Welcome to the Ecosystem Show.
We're thrilled to have you withus here.
We challenge traditionalmindsets and explore innovative
approaches to maximizing thevalue of your software estate.
We don't expect you to agreewith everything.
Challenge us, share yourthoughts and let's grow together
.
Now let's dive in.
It's showtime.
Alright, welcome back, welcomeback.
(00:23):
Three of us on to night for meTo do to morning this morning
for you in Venezia is right, andso you can see the sun's gone
down.
Where I am it's a lot darkerand it's all nice and shiny in
Spain.
I don't know if anyone pickedit, but you like my new little,
my rocket to the moon back.
Ana Welch (00:42):
I do like that.
Mark Smith (00:43):
It's a nice little addition.
You like my new little, myrocket to the moon back.
I do like that Nice littleaddition, I do like that I just
picked up recently as a littlebackdrop item, but with that
we've got an exciting week andlike next week not quite next
week, but by the time we recordanother episode we will be all
in person again Probably try andget an episode recorded like we
(01:08):
did last time at Dynamics Mindsin Slovenia.
Andrew Welch (01:09):
Well.
So I wonder, when you weredoing the open there, it did
occur to me I wonder how manylongtime watchers you probably
you wouldn't pick this up if youwere just listening but I
wonder how many longtimewatchers of the show have
noticed that we've traded in?
Those of us in Europe havetraded in our glass of wine
during the recording and we'renow drinking coffee.
(01:31):
So we flipped the script.
We are now recording theseregularly in Mark's evening and
our morning, but so we're alittle more hyped but a little
bit less wine.
Ana Welch (01:43):
We're a little more hyped but a little bit less wine
.
It's also based on how we allfunction right.
I function not at all in theevening, but you two seem to
have a second wind.
Andrew Welch (02:00):
So I now work.
So we live in Spain primarily,but we work with people all
around the world.
So I have this, this schedulenow, where on Tuesdays and
Thursdays usually um, I kind ofyou know, don't start my day
until around around noon I takecare of some family things that
that need to be done, whatever,and then I work into the evening
(02:22):
.
But I am such a long time nightowl I work so much better in
the evening, right that you knowit's 11 o'clock at night and
Anna will come in and be like,are you almost done?
And I'm like, oh, come on, Ishould work for hours more.
Ana Welch (02:37):
Yeah, that's very true, that's very, very true.
Mark Smith (02:40):
That's interesting that, like once, I hadn't picked
that up about you guys, likeyour differences, because I am,
according to my aura ring, oneof only 10% of the world that
functions extremely well at 5am,and so I get my best work done
in the morning part of my dayand then the rest of it is all
bonus time if I, if I can keepthe energy you know cranking.
Ana Welch (03:02):
Wow, that's amazing.
I am actually, according to myaura ring, my chronotype is
evening.
What does that even mean?
Mark Smith (03:11):
That means you do your best work in the evening.
Andrew Welch (03:17):
That is false.
Shut up, Andrew.
My ring just says that I'mmarried.
It does not pontificate on mychronotype or other physical
traits.
It just tells the odd girl, orsometimes boy, at the bar get
away, get away, be gone with you.
Ana Welch (03:39):
You don't know how people function differently, how
like people functiondifferently.
But also I do feel like I do mybest work in between, I don't
know 3.30 and 7.
But is that even evening?
I don't know, we don't know.
That's nap time, that'safternoon, right?
(04:00):
That's siesta time in.
Mark Smith (04:00):
Spain, which is something I wish we rolled out
worldwide.
Siesta time in Spain, which issomething I wish we rolled out
worldwide.
I couldn't believe when Iwalked the Camino in Spain for
33 days and you would go into atown just on 12, let's say, 1
o'clock, 2 o'clock in theafternoon, and you'd want to go
to a cafe and they're all closedand you're like I'm a customer
(04:22):
who cares, nobody cares.
Ana Welch (04:24):
We don't right, but siesta time is one but like, and
then after siesta time you likesleep later in at night, right?
So I today I went to uh dropoff our daughter at uh school,
uh, which happens at nine.
Like nowhere in the world doesschool start at 9, but over here
(04:46):
it starts at 9.
Coming back, I wanted to.
I wanted to get a coffee for us.
Only none of the cafes openuntil 10 and I'm like this is
coffee people, how do you?
yeah but listen, taxation isreally high, so I guess that's
(05:08):
how we we function.
It's a good thing.
Andrew Welch (05:11):
Rodley, can we just all stop to reflect now?
Anna and I did not get to walkthe Camino in Spain, but but
Mark did and his wife Meg wasalong.
Mark Smith (05:31):
You and I did that together right.
Andrew Welch (05:33):
Can we just all reflect on a time before we had,
you know, four year olds, whenthings like walking the Camino
was a thing Three days.
Right Could be done.
Mark Smith (05:48):
How could you do that now, right?
Just wow, mind blowing.
Andrew Welch (05:53):
Now it feels like a victory when one of us says
I'll get the kid ready forschool this morning.
Mark Smith (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not me.
I can never sleep in.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's something nowtrading.
Who gets to sleep in?
Ana Welch (06:05):
But also it's like it's so hard.
It's so hard Like, for example,yesterday was a really, really,
really busy day and we solved alot of things and I had a lot
of intense phone calls yesterday, right, and yet my daughter
came home from school and sheneeded her nails clipped and I
(06:25):
swear to God that was thehardest job that I did yesterday
.
Mark Smith (06:30):
It's hard work, little kids.
It was absolutely not.
Ana Welch (06:33):
It was absolutely not planning a massive project.
It was that.
Mark Smith (06:41):
Yeah, I had to add something Before we talk a bit
about Porter, porteros and uh,dynamics, minds and the epicness
of this conference.
Um, I had a long time listener,put in my diary a meeting this
week because I've gone and setup on linkedin then you can book
a meeting.
It goes straight to my calendarif there's a spot free and you
(07:03):
and it works for you.
And so this, you know it's,it's always I feel a bit like
gambling going on these callsbecause I have no idea who they
are right, and um, yeah, city isa long time listener to the
show.
He's got an isb business and aa geography in the world and
wants to know you know how wecould work together.
And I find it's, um, it's.
(07:23):
You never know who's listeningto these things, right, like
he'd said he's been lurking foryears.
Um, and decided, hey, why don'treach out and see how we can
help?
So if you're in that position,we're always open to having a
chat if we can help you in anyway on your project.
But let's talk about slovenia,the conference of all
conferences when it comes tobeing able to mix great content,
(07:48):
epic speakers and then everyevening's a carnival.
Andrew Welch (07:56):
It says something about Dynamics Minds.
So we're recording this on theEuropean morning, friday, the
16th of May.
So we've got next week.
This coming week ahead isMicrosoft Build and then the
week following that is DynamicsMines, and I think that it says
(08:17):
something about Dynamics Minesthat we've got Microsoft Build
standing between us and DynamicsMines and we're talking about
how Dynamics Minds is this, thisabsolutely epic event.
So you know, if you've been, ifyou've been following along
with us over the last couple ofyears on this show, you know
that that we love, we love thatevent and we love the organizers
(08:39):
and we love that.
We love the town.
So the conference is held andit's a massive conference,
relatively speaking, it's heldin a small town, right there's a
little.
Ana Welch (08:50):
By the way, sorry to interrupt you.
There's a little Disney shortabout a little boy in that town.
Wow.
Andrew Welch (08:59):
Is there.
Ana Welch (09:00):
Yes, and it looks exactly like that, like even the
little shops.
It looks exactly like that,like even the little shops.
It's exactly like that.
It's a little disney shortabout diversity.
Mark Smith (09:10):
It's so good I've gone and watched a bunch in the
last couple of weeks.
Well, because my megsencouraged me to um of travel
videos of portarosh and just tocheck out, you know, show her
like remember last year we had alobster dinner and we were like
I was like, look at that,that's the restaurant.
They're on the water.
We had our lobster dinner.
Andrew Welch (09:32):
Well.
So, for those who are maybecoming for the first time, or
you know, I remember the firstyear that we did this we didn't,
actually I didn't venture outof the hotel much, no, you
didn't.
And then the second year Irealized what a mistake that is.
So the hotel complex, it's notone hotel, there's the main
(09:53):
hotel but then there's multiple.
It's part of a resort, so tospeak, there right on the water
on the Adriatic Sea.
But it's located on this littlepeninsula that is between
roughly between Porto Roche andanother town called Piran.
So, even though the event is in, I guess, like the postcode or
(10:14):
the boundaries of Porto Roche,piran is actually the town that
most folks walk to, and you canwalk right along the sea right
along the water.
Yeah, exactly, and you can walkinto Piran.
So if you're attending thisevent this year, I really
encourage you to find some timeto go.
I cannot with that.
Mark Smith (10:35):
Can you see that?
Trophy yes, this is the onlytrophy my podcast has ever
received and it says hereDynamics Minds, the most magical
podcast, mark smith.
And uh, I didn't even know Iwas going to be awarded this.
I didn't go to the event thefirst year.
it ran, but of course peoplequickly chimed in on social
(10:57):
media that I'd won this awardand, um, yeah, it's the only
award this podcast has everreceived, and how epic a design
is that.
I just it's amazing.
And so they hooked me when theyasked me to actually go the
following year, which theyactually asked me to go the
first year, but I was like it'stoo far away and my kids were
too young.
But I'm pleased this is mysecond year going and, man, I'm
(11:20):
looking forward to it.
Andrew Welch (11:23):
Mark when he was given well, not given, but when
he was awarded his award for hispodcasting at the event last
year.
He was not at the awards eventbecause he was off with anna and
me and chris and I think willwas there, I think keith walling
and donna was there as welllike it was this crowd that we
(11:44):
had gathered and we were all offslaughtering live lobsters for
our dinner.
Um, they were swimming about atank and chris was delighted by
this.
It was like he was gleeful.
He'd never.
He's just this giant lobstertrying to escape.
When they brought it to him topick out, it's like trying to
crawl across his table, and hewas.
He was delighted by this.
Mark Smith (12:06):
It's a great event.
It's a great event andcongratulations whoever took the
award on my behalf last year.
I heard it involved a lot ofchocolates and stuff like that,
but well done, I'll try and makethe awards this year.
I heard Birdie told me thatsomebody else on this podcast
might be getting an award, solet's see what happens.
(12:28):
Let's see what happens.
Andrew Welch (12:33):
Yes, I'm sure that William will be very excited.
Mark Smith (12:37):
He will be ecstatic.
I'm looking forward to actuallyseeing William's partner at
this event.
That'll be the first time Imeet her.
She's very cool, very smartshe's yeah she's very cool hey,
but tell one thing I want tocrack on.
As in, we're running somethingat this event, right.
As in, we're doing a lot ofspeaking at this event.
(12:59):
Um, what is the?
How did it come about, what isit and why is it, uh, important?
Andrew Welch (13:05):
mark's like how did my idea this was mark's idea
to do this?
Mark?
Mark's like someone tell meabout my idea.
So, at Dynamics Minds, we'vebeen, we've been working with
the organizers who, like I said,we love them.
They're, they're great, and we,we, we've organized this year
(13:26):
what we're calling the executiveforum.
So, the executive forum I don'tthink that they've done
anything like this before.
It it's aimed at um.
It's aimed at at technical andbusiness leaders, um, who might
be attending though Of course II believe that all are welcome.
Um, and the the executive forumis a series of four sessions
(13:50):
that we're going to be sharingand they're all thematically
linked, right.
So they are, and I'm going tojust pull up the list here so I
can read them to you.
Specifically, monday, at itlooks like 2.15 local time there
(14:12):
in Slovenia, with a sessioncalled the Microsoft Partner of
the Future, and then the nextday there will be a session at
nine o'clock called Buildingyour Microsoft Partner AI
Practice.
Anna, you're presenting thatone.
Is that the one that you'redoing with?
Who else is joining you forthat?
Ana Welch (14:36):
I think, chris.
Andrew Welch (14:37):
Chris, okay, and then later in the day there is
the Microsoft Partner Execs.
So later in the day, at 2.15 onTuesday the 27th, there's the
Microsoft Partner Exec's Guideto Trustworthy AI, and I think
that one is Anna, chris andIoana is doing that Okay.
Mark Smith (14:57):
That's right.
Can we just explain?
Andrew Welch (14:58):
who Ioana is.
Mark Smith (14:59):
Yeah, because the guests might not know.
Ana Welch (15:03):
Ioana is responsible for a lot of the transport AI
work at Microsoft.
She's right there making surethat all of the Microsoft
products are safe, that theygive you good results.
(15:24):
Very much involved with theprocess of checking these things
over and over and over again,being on call to like double,
triple, quadruple, checkeverything that goes out.
So one of the pioneers toactually figure out how do we
even do this right.
(15:44):
So, iwana, she's been guidingus through this whole process
because nobody knows right.
So she's been guiding usthrough this whole process
because nobody knows right.
So she's been guiding usthrough this whole process.
And after we say, look, this ishow you should build your
practice, we're going to go in.
And I was going to say, look,there's got.
There's like nothing leftbehind, there are no secrets.
(16:07):
This is how you do.
You do the thing.
We're very, very grateful andprivileged to have her.
Mark Smith (16:15):
Yeah, awesome.
Andrew Welch (16:17):
Yeah, and then we'll finish on the forum.
We'll finish on Wednesday at315 with a session the closing
which is becoming a trulystrategic Microsoft partner.
So, yeah, we've got foursessions as part of the
executive forum Microsoftpartner the future, building
your Microsoft partner AIpractice.
(16:38):
The Microsoft partners apartner execs guide to
trustworthy AI and becoming atruly strategic Microsoft
partner.
So you know, the executiveforum is part of the partner biz
track, the partner businesstrack at the conference.
So you know it's, of course,quite partner oriented.
(16:59):
However, if you're not a partnerand you know you're, you're if
you are a technical or businessleader from, say, a Microsoft
customer I would say that thisis definitely these sessions in
the forum are something youshould definitely attend,
because I think it will help youunderstand what you need to
(17:20):
know in order to select thecorrect Microsoft partner going
forward for you and we've talkeda lot about this on the show
all of the changes in all of thechanges that I think the
partner community in thatparticular sub industry within,
you know, within Microsoft, isundergoing.
(17:41):
It's tough times for thosepartners, not because business
is bad, but because business ischanging so much and many, many
organizations are simply not setup to be able to absorb that
change, and that's what we'regoing to be exploring.
So we'll really try to helppartners become the partners
that they need to be in the eraahead, but also help customers
(18:04):
understand what they need toknow to discern the truly great
partners from the mediocre ones.
Ana Welch (18:12):
Right, and that's not just, and that's not all.
Those are not all of thesessions that we're doing.
We're actually doing a lot more, yeah, so that's just the forum
right, that's just theexecutive forum.
Forum right, that's just, that'sjust the executive forum.
(18:33):
But the the point is, withinthe executive forum, we are
taking our partners andcustomers on a journey, right,
so we are doing a whole thingwhy partners need to change, how
they need to change, right?
And then what are the thingsthat you know our work must
include from now on?
So it's not just about how thepartner changes their culture,
(18:56):
but it's also about some brandnew practices that we're going
to include, which invariablymeans that we need to exclude
other stuff, because peopledon't want, all of a sudden want
to just randomly pay more sothat you can keep your
traditional way of doing things,and then adding all of the
(19:17):
trustworthy AI stuff on top ofit.
And, by the way, you need toadd all of the trustworthy stuff
on top of it because you willbe touched by all of these tools
and practices and so on and soforth.
But apart from that, we havelike Chris isn't here right, for
example, right now, but he'sgoing to be involved in the
(19:39):
keynote and then he's going todo like an agent framework
session as well, and then he'sgoing to do an expert partner
also.
So it's a really, really busyweek for us.
What other sessions are yougoing to present, mark?
Mark Smith (19:59):
Meg's coming with me .
She's doing one on AI adoptionAmazing.
Ana Welch (20:04):
She's doing a session.
Mark Smith (20:06):
And then what I'm doing is one on 10 things that
you need to do.
This is aimed more at theconsultants that are going to be
there to take your career tothe next level.
It seems a lot of people arestarting to become hyper-focused
on or concerned about theircareer futures at the moment,
(20:26):
and so it's an interesting topic.
It's an interesting time.
We've seen over the last weekwhat 6,000, 7,000 people laid
off from Microsoft and if you'rewatching LinkedIn you can see
there's some upset people outthere and can't kind of
reconcile what it means, and Ithink it's more important than
(20:47):
ever that you've got to realizeyou've got to take ownership of
your own career.
Ana Welch (20:50):
No one owes you anything.
Mark Smith (20:52):
Your employer doesn't owe you anything, and
it's really important that youdevelop a mindset of constant
learning, because we don't knowwhat the future holds, and so
I'm really hyper-focused on whatyou need to learn to be
relevant in the future, and it'sactually it's what I call like
(21:15):
mindsets that you need todevelop rather than going out
and learning a particular skill.
It's around what I call mentalmodels, and that you should be
running in your day-to-day toprepare you for the future.
But I did do listen.
Ana Welch (21:28):
I want to share something that's so interesting.
Wait, give me an example of amental model.
Mark Smith (21:34):
So a mental model would be the concept of learning
that what I've learned up tothis point is probably not going
to make me employable in fiveyears' time.
So if that's the case, you'vegot to switch off, a switch from
a.
You know, you went throughschool, you went to university,
(21:55):
you got your degree and you kindof.
If you look at the how people'slives run, there's that big
education piece before they gointo their career I feel like
sure you're just going to keeprunning that now as in, keep
re-educating but also developing, like one of the mindsets I
think is really in critical,critical to develop.
When I said critical in, I'mlike did ai just plug into me
(22:17):
because I just noticed that'sone of the words it uses a lot.
Lady, it's critical that you dothis.
It's critical as in um, as injust when, when you're working
with it.
So it seems one of the littlebugbears at the moment um, like
the em which I was talking toyou about earlier today, andrew,
the, the.
But the thing is is that whenyou get an answer, you need to
(22:37):
be responsible enough tovalidate the answer with the ai
solution.
One examples I give there was apolice officer that arrested
somebody because they were usingAI to serve up who needed to be
arrested.
Like that's very high level.
I'm talking about the arrestprofile photo.
Looked nothing like theindividual, but however the
(23:00):
camera work or in the countrywas working, it said that was
the individual to arrest.
So they arrested the dude andlike it goes to court and the
judge goes.
How could you think?
Like the profile pic and theperson don't even look anything
the same and the the officer'sdefense was well, the system
told me it was him.
So I just and it's like thiskind of full abdication of well,
(23:22):
the technology told me so.
Therefore I will obey it andnot and devoid my critical
thinking.
And so one of the mental modelsis that you need to become.
If you've never been a criticalthinker and you've been a
passive absorber of the worldaround you, you need to become.
If you've never been a criticalthinker and you've been a
passive absorber of the worldaround you, you need to change
it because, more than ever,there's going to be a lot that's
out there to manipulate yourthinking, and AI can do it so
(23:44):
effectively and will do it evenbetter in the future, and so you
need to develop a mindset toquestion.
I say question everything, likego hang on a second, is this
right?
Is the reason for me gettingthis answer?
Am someone trying to influenceme?
Does someone make money off medoing what's been recommended,
et cetera.
And it's these little thoughtprocesses that make.
(24:05):
And it's so hard today, likebecause you know when Trump was
coming into his position earlierthis year, et cetera.
I was like, how do I find anews source that's not biased?
That's not biased, that's noteither going one way he's an
idiot or the other way, sayinghe's the Messiah.
And it's like how do you find anews source?
And I've found it verydifficult to there isn't one.
Andrew Welch (24:25):
Hey, there isn't one On that topic.
I feel like the line.
Mark Smith (24:29):
It's like you take that now and amplify Anybody can
that now on, amplify, anybodycan generate any type of news
and manipulate anything.
And you know, I just think,yeah, we've got to develop mind,
mental models that allow us toact with a lot of thought, and
(24:50):
how we interface with everythinggoing on around us in the world
.
And now that's a rant, it's arant and I don't want to no, I
love it.
Ana Welch (24:55):
I'll definitely be in that.
Uh, in in that session I've gotmuch to learn.
Mark Smith (25:01):
It's, it's, it is awesome, the.
The other thing yes, I want toshow you something funny, um,
which which is?
It came to me.
Um, I was, I had somebody on apodcast and after that that
podcast, I put up this pictureand this is, by the way, my
first post on LinkedIn, I thinkpretty much this year which is
(25:23):
the Power Platform, the vibecoding for the enterprise.
But the whole idea of thisPower Platform, vibe coding for
the enterprise, and thediscussion I was having with a
CVP at Microsoft about it, wasthat you know, the future of the
Power Platform, I think, is notgoing anywhere, but the way we
(25:43):
build with the Power Platform, Ithink is going to dramatically
change in the next three years.
That's my observation.
Ana Welch (25:49):
It's already changing right.
Mark Smith (25:50):
There will be a tooling, but none of us will be
working with it.
And so I had been seeing somestuff on vibe coding.
I had whipped up a website theother day in literally 10
minutes with a prompt anddeployed it across the city and
around the world in that timepublic-facing.
It was a 30-plus page websiteand it looked freaking amazing
(26:13):
from a prompt that I gave.
And so then I go on to thiscall I and what adorned on me
the more I see microsoft put aiand co-pilot into the interfaces
and, you know, the ability toprompt a build.
I am wondering whether the powerplatform literally will become
the five coding platform, andwhy I say for the enterprise is
(26:34):
because it has all theenterprise governance and stuff
built in.
It has the, you know pipelines,alm, all that type of great
stuff supporting, and I thinkthat perhaps where we have had
low code, no code in the past, Ithink that might be.
It could potentially become thevibe code platform of the past.
I think that might be.
(26:55):
It could potentially become thevibe code platform of the
enterprise, but with thatenterprise governance, security,
rigor, all that built in.
Ana Welch (27:03):
It's got one more thing that you didn't mention.
What was that Integration?
Mark Smith (27:09):
It can integrate.
Ana Welch (27:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Smith (27:12):
It just integrates.
Ana Welch (27:14):
You think the ALM isn't good enough?
Great, it just integrates withanother ALM system yeah, it just
integrates.
You think the ALM isn't goodenough?
Great, it just integrates withanother ALM system.
Yes, you think that theautomation isn't good enough?
Awesome, for that specific usecase, we use another technology.
You believe that you need amore advanced ML piece of
software functionality?
You need to train a model.
(27:34):
You need to do somethingfantastic.
Awesome, because this is whatyou will be doing, instead of
coding our back by hand.
Andrew Welch (27:43):
Yeah, well, well, and there is, and I know we're
gonna have to wrap up, we'regonna have to wrap up here.
But you know, we've been, we'vebeen having a, I've been having
a long I'm trying to think ofwhat to call it.
I don't want to call it adebate, but kind of a long
debate.
Right, one of the clients thatI work with and that Anna works
(28:08):
with as well, they've, a whileback, made a big decision to go
with, go with um uh powerplatform for some of their big
enterprise app development.
They actually hired a partner,a Microsoft partner, who was.
It was the worst partnerperformance I have ever seen.
(28:31):
I, I, I think essentially, thispartner took millions and
millions and millions of dollars, put it in a bag and set fire
to the bag.
Um, that was their primaryachievement, um, so you know
this is obviously a lot of moneyin the meantime they made a lot
of money, right?
Don't cry a tear yeah.
Um, but they, they absolutelyfleeced their, their client Um,
(28:55):
and and it was horrible um,which is part of the reason that
Anna and I have been helpingthat client work through this.
But this has left, in the mindsof some of the folks in this
organization, has left a reallybad taste for power platform.
I think that what they don'tunderstand is that what they
(29:18):
don't understand is that theythey did not have a bad
experience with the technology.
They had a bad experience withthe partner who was implementing
the technology.
So go all the way back to howwe started this discussion.
But, in any case, one of thesort of, I think, red herrings
that the naysayers in thisorganization who are not very
(29:41):
enthused about Power Platformhave thrown out is that, oh,
it's not scalable, it's reallymeant for citizen developers and
basic sorts of things and it'snot enterprise ready.
And they've actually cooked upthese wild wild architectures to
get around using Power Platformthat will cost the organization
orders of magnitude more toimplement.
(30:02):
So, anyway, I loved when I sawthe other day the Forrester Wave
.
If anyone's familiar with thosestudies, right, a new Forrester
Wave study out that rates PowerPlatform as the best offering in
(30:22):
terms of strength of strategyand strength of offering, which
is how Forrester Wave works, thebest offering in low-code
platforms for professionaldevelopers, and I thought this
was a really I loved seeing thisand it reminds me I actually
need to share this with um,share this with with our clients
.
So, on that note, beautifulwith that.
Mark Smith (30:41):
We'll uh see you next time.
Um, hopefully we'll get asession in at dynamics minds
we're on the same room, like wedid last year.
That was fun.
Um, perhaps we'll talk aboutthe inspiration that dynamics
minds uh gave us to launch ourown conference um later on in
december this year.
(31:02):
Um, that is going to be off therichter epic of epic, of
epicness.
That's something to be epic.
Andrew Welch (31:10):
Um, I'm so looking forward to it with that mark
smith's body has been inhabitedby Chris Huntingford's language
Bye guys, Bye.
Mark Smith (31:19):
Thanks for tuning into the Ecosystem Show.
We hope you found today'sdiscussion insightful and
thought-provoking, and maybe youhad a laugh or two.
Remember your feedback andchallenges help us all grow, so
don't hesitate to share yourperspective.
Stay connected with us for moreinnovative ideas and strategies
to enhance your software estate.
(31:39):
Thank you.
Welcome to the Ecosystem Show.
We're thrilled to have you withus here.
We challenge traditionalmindsets and explore innovative
approaches to maximizing thevalue of your software estate.
We don't expect you to agreewith everything.
Challenge us, share yourthoughts and let's grow together
.
Now let's dive in.
It's showtime.
Alright, welcome back, welcomeback.
(00:23):
Three of us on to night for meTo do to morning this morning
for you in Venezia is right, andso you can see the sun's gone
down.
Where I am it's a lot darkerand it's all nice and shiny in
Spain.
I don't know if anyone pickedit, but you like my new little,
my rocket to the moon back.
Ana Welch (00:42):
I do like that.
Mark Smith (00:43):
It's a nice little addition.
You like my new little, myrocket to the moon back.
I do like that Nice littleaddition, I do like that I just
picked up recently as a littlebackdrop item, but with that
we've got an exciting week andlike next week not quite next
week, but by the time we recordanother episode we will be all
in person again Probably try andget an episode recorded like we
(01:08):
did last time at Dynamics Mindsin Slovenia.
Andrew Welch (01:09):
Well.
So I wonder, when you weredoing the open there, it did
occur to me I wonder how manylongtime watchers you probably
you wouldn't pick this up if youwere just listening but I
wonder how many longtimewatchers of the show have
noticed that we've traded in?
Those of us in Europe havetraded in our glass of wine
during the recording and we'renow drinking coffee.
(01:31):
So we flipped the script.
We are now recording theseregularly in Mark's evening and
our morning, but so we're alittle more hyped but a little
bit less wine.
Ana Welch (01:43):
We're a little more hyped but a little bit less wine
.
It's also based on how we allfunction right.
I function not at all in theevening, but you two seem to
have a second wind.
Andrew Welch (02:00):
So I now work.
So we live in Spain primarily,but we work with people all
around the world.
So I have this, this schedulenow, where on Tuesdays and
Thursdays usually um, I kind ofyou know, don't start my day
until around around noon I takecare of some family things that
that need to be done, whatever,and then I work into the evening
(02:22):
.
But I am such a long time nightowl I work so much better in
the evening, right that you knowit's 11 o'clock at night and
Anna will come in and be like,are you almost done?
And I'm like, oh, come on, Ishould work for hours more.
Ana Welch (02:37):
Yeah, that's very true, that's very, very true.
Mark Smith (02:40):
That's interesting that, like once, I hadn't picked
that up about you guys, likeyour differences, because I am,
according to my aura ring, oneof only 10% of the world that
functions extremely well at 5am,and so I get my best work done
in the morning part of my dayand then the rest of it is all
bonus time if I, if I can keepthe energy you know cranking.
Ana Welch (03:02):
Wow, that's amazing.
I am actually, according to myaura ring, my chronotype is
evening.
What does that even mean?
Mark Smith (03:11):
That means you do your best work in the evening.
Andrew Welch (03:17):
That is false.
Shut up, Andrew.
My ring just says that I'mmarried.
It does not pontificate on mychronotype or other physical
traits.
It just tells the odd girl, orsometimes boy, at the bar get
away, get away, be gone with you.
Ana Welch (03:39):
You don't know how people function differently, how
like people functiondifferently.
But also I do feel like I do mybest work in between, I don't
know 3.30 and 7.
But is that even evening?
I don't know, we don't know.
That's nap time, that'safternoon, right?
(04:00):
That's siesta time in.
Mark Smith (04:00):
Spain, which is something I wish we rolled out
worldwide.
Siesta time in Spain, which issomething I wish we rolled out
worldwide.
I couldn't believe when Iwalked the Camino in Spain for
33 days and you would go into atown just on 12, let's say, 1
o'clock, 2 o'clock in theafternoon, and you'd want to go
to a cafe and they're all closedand you're like I'm a customer
(04:22):
who cares, nobody cares.
Ana Welch (04:24):
We don't right, but siesta time is one but like, and
then after siesta time you likesleep later in at night, right?
So I today I went to uh dropoff our daughter at uh school,
uh, which happens at nine.
Like nowhere in the world doesschool start at 9, but over here
(04:46):
it starts at 9.
Coming back, I wanted to.
I wanted to get a coffee for us.
Only none of the cafes openuntil 10 and I'm like this is
coffee people, how do you?
yeah but listen, taxation isreally high, so I guess that's
(05:08):
how we we function.
It's a good thing.
Andrew Welch (05:11):
Rodley, can we just all stop to reflect now?
Anna and I did not get to walkthe Camino in Spain, but but
Mark did and his wife Meg wasalong.
Mark Smith (05:31):
You and I did that together right.
Andrew Welch (05:33):
Can we just all reflect on a time before we had,
you know, four year olds, whenthings like walking the Camino
was a thing Three days.
Right Could be done.
Mark Smith (05:48):
How could you do that now, right?
Just wow, mind blowing.
Andrew Welch (05:53):
Now it feels like a victory when one of us says
I'll get the kid ready forschool this morning.
Mark Smith (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not me.
I can never sleep in.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's something nowtrading.
Who gets to sleep in?
Ana Welch (06:05):
But also it's like it's so hard.
It's so hard Like, for example,yesterday was a really, really,
really busy day and we solved alot of things and I had a lot
of intense phone calls yesterday, right, and yet my daughter
came home from school and sheneeded her nails clipped and I
(06:25):
swear to God that was thehardest job that I did yesterday
.
Mark Smith (06:30):
It's hard work, little kids.
It was absolutely not.
Ana Welch (06:33):
It was absolutely not planning a massive project.
It was that.
Mark Smith (06:41):
Yeah, I had to add something Before we talk a bit
about Porter, porteros and uh,dynamics, minds and the epicness
of this conference.
Um, I had a long time listener,put in my diary a meeting this
week because I've gone and setup on linkedin then you can book
a meeting.
It goes straight to my calendarif there's a spot free and you
(07:03):
and it works for you.
And so this, you know it's,it's always I feel a bit like
gambling going on these callsbecause I have no idea who they
are right, and um, yeah, city isa long time listener to the
show.
He's got an isb business and aa geography in the world and
wants to know you know how wecould work together.
And I find it's, um, it's.
(07:23):
You never know who's listeningto these things, right, like
he'd said he's been lurking foryears.
Um, and decided, hey, why don'treach out and see how we can
help?
So if you're in that position,we're always open to having a
chat if we can help you in anyway on your project.
But let's talk about slovenia,the conference of all
conferences when it comes tobeing able to mix great content,
(07:48):
epic speakers and then everyevening's a carnival.
Andrew Welch (07:56):
It says something about Dynamics Minds.
So we're recording this on theEuropean morning, friday, the
16th of May.
So we've got next week.
This coming week ahead isMicrosoft Build and then the
week following that is DynamicsMines, and I think that it says
(08:17):
something about Dynamics Minesthat we've got Microsoft Build
standing between us and DynamicsMines and we're talking about
how Dynamics Minds is this, thisabsolutely epic event.
So you know, if you've been, ifyou've been following along
with us over the last couple ofyears on this show, you know
that that we love, we love thatevent and we love the organizers
(08:39):
and we love that.
We love the town.
So the conference is held andit's a massive conference,
relatively speaking, it's heldin a small town, right there's a
little.
Ana Welch (08:50):
By the way, sorry to interrupt you.
There's a little Disney shortabout a little boy in that town.
Wow.
Andrew Welch (08:59):
Is there.
Ana Welch (09:00):
Yes, and it looks exactly like that, like even the
little shops.
It looks exactly like that,like even the little shops.
It's exactly like that.
It's a little disney shortabout diversity.
Mark Smith (09:10):
It's so good I've gone and watched a bunch in the
last couple of weeks.
Well, because my megsencouraged me to um of travel
videos of portarosh and just tocheck out, you know, show her
like remember last year we had alobster dinner and we were like
I was like, look at that,that's the restaurant.
They're on the water.
We had our lobster dinner.
Andrew Welch (09:32):
Well.
So, for those who are maybecoming for the first time, or
you know, I remember the firstyear that we did this we didn't,
actually I didn't venture outof the hotel much, no, you
didn't.
And then the second year Irealized what a mistake that is.
So the hotel complex, it's notone hotel, there's the main
(09:53):
hotel but then there's multiple.
It's part of a resort, so tospeak, there right on the water
on the Adriatic Sea.
But it's located on this littlepeninsula that is between
roughly between Porto Roche andanother town called Piran.
So, even though the event is in, I guess, like the postcode or
(10:14):
the boundaries of Porto Roche,piran is actually the town that
most folks walk to, and you canwalk right along the sea right
along the water.
Yeah, exactly, and you can walkinto Piran.
So if you're attending thisevent this year, I really
encourage you to find some timeto go.
I cannot with that.
Mark Smith (10:35):
Can you see that?
Trophy yes, this is the onlytrophy my podcast has ever
received and it says hereDynamics Minds, the most magical
podcast, mark smith.
And uh, I didn't even know Iwas going to be awarded this.
I didn't go to the event thefirst year.
it ran, but of course peoplequickly chimed in on social
(10:57):
media that I'd won this awardand, um, yeah, it's the only
award this podcast has everreceived, and how epic a design
is that.
I just it's amazing.
And so they hooked me when theyasked me to actually go the
following year, which theyactually asked me to go the
first year, but I was like it'stoo far away and my kids were
too young.
But I'm pleased this is mysecond year going and, man, I'm
(11:20):
looking forward to it.
Andrew Welch (11:23):
Mark when he was given well, not given, but when
he was awarded his award for hispodcasting at the event last
year.
He was not at the awards eventbecause he was off with anna and
me and chris and I think willwas there, I think keith walling
and donna was there as welllike it was this crowd that we
(11:44):
had gathered and we were all offslaughtering live lobsters for
our dinner.
Um, they were swimming about atank and chris was delighted by
this.
It was like he was gleeful.
He'd never.
He's just this giant lobstertrying to escape.
When they brought it to him topick out, it's like trying to
crawl across his table, and hewas.
He was delighted by this.
Mark Smith (12:06):
It's a great event.
It's a great event andcongratulations whoever took the
award on my behalf last year.
I heard it involved a lot ofchocolates and stuff like that,
but well done, I'll try and makethe awards this year.
I heard Birdie told me thatsomebody else on this podcast
might be getting an award, solet's see what happens.
(12:28):
Let's see what happens.
Andrew Welch (12:33):
Yes, I'm sure that William will be very excited.
Mark Smith (12:37):
He will be ecstatic.
I'm looking forward to actuallyseeing William's partner at
this event.
That'll be the first time Imeet her.
She's very cool, very smartshe's yeah she's very cool hey,
but tell one thing I want tocrack on.
As in, we're running somethingat this event, right.
As in, we're doing a lot ofspeaking at this event.
(12:59):
Um, what is the?
How did it come about, what isit and why is it, uh, important?
Andrew Welch (13:05):
mark's like how did my idea this was mark's idea
to do this?
Mark?
Mark's like someone tell meabout my idea.
So, at Dynamics Minds, we'vebeen, we've been working with
the organizers who, like I said,we love them.
They're, they're great, and we,we, we've organized this year
(13:26):
what we're calling the executiveforum.
So, the executive forum I don'tthink that they've done
anything like this before.
It it's aimed at um.
It's aimed at at technical andbusiness leaders, um, who might
be attending though Of course II believe that all are welcome.
Um, and the the executive forumis a series of four sessions
(13:50):
that we're going to be sharingand they're all thematically
linked, right.
So they are, and I'm going tojust pull up the list here so I
can read them to you.
Specifically, monday, at itlooks like 2.15 local time there
(14:12):
in Slovenia, with a sessioncalled the Microsoft Partner of
the Future, and then the nextday there will be a session at
nine o'clock called Buildingyour Microsoft Partner AI
Practice.
Anna, you're presenting thatone.
Is that the one that you'redoing with?
Who else is joining you forthat?
Ana Welch (14:36):
I think, chris.
Andrew Welch (14:37):
Chris, okay, and then later in the day there is
the Microsoft Partner Execs.
So later in the day, at 2.15 onTuesday the 27th, there's the
Microsoft Partner Exec's Guideto Trustworthy AI, and I think
that one is Anna, chris andIoana is doing that Okay.
Mark Smith (14:57):
That's right.
Can we just explain?
Andrew Welch (14:58):
who Ioana is.
Mark Smith (14:59):
Yeah, because the guests might not know.
Ana Welch (15:03):
Ioana is responsible for a lot of the transport AI
work at Microsoft.
She's right there making surethat all of the Microsoft
products are safe, that theygive you good results.
(15:24):
Very much involved with theprocess of checking these things
over and over and over again,being on call to like double,
triple, quadruple, checkeverything that goes out.
So one of the pioneers toactually figure out how do we
even do this right.
(15:44):
So, iwana, she's been guidingus through this whole process
because nobody knows right.
So she's been guiding usthrough this whole process
because nobody knows right.
So she's been guiding usthrough this whole process.
And after we say, look, this ishow you should build your
practice, we're going to go in.
And I was going to say, look,there's got.
There's like nothing leftbehind, there are no secrets.
(16:07):
This is how you do.
You do the thing.
We're very, very grateful andprivileged to have her.
Mark Smith (16:15):
Yeah, awesome.
Andrew Welch (16:17):
Yeah, and then we'll finish on the forum.
We'll finish on Wednesday at315 with a session the closing
which is becoming a trulystrategic Microsoft partner.
So, yeah, we've got foursessions as part of the
executive forum Microsoftpartner the future, building
your Microsoft partner AIpractice.
(16:38):
The Microsoft partners apartner execs guide to
trustworthy AI and becoming atruly strategic Microsoft
partner.
So you know, the executiveforum is part of the partner biz
track, the partner businesstrack at the conference.
So you know it's, of course,quite partner oriented.
(16:59):
However, if you're not a partnerand you know you're, you're if
you are a technical or businessleader from, say, a Microsoft
customer I would say that thisis definitely these sessions in
the forum are something youshould definitely attend,
because I think it will help youunderstand what you need to
(17:20):
know in order to select thecorrect Microsoft partner going
forward for you and we've talkeda lot about this on the show
all of the changes in all of thechanges that I think the
partner community in thatparticular sub industry within,
you know, within Microsoft, isundergoing.
(17:41):
It's tough times for thosepartners, not because business
is bad, but because business ischanging so much and many, many
organizations are simply not setup to be able to absorb that
change, and that's what we'regoing to be exploring.
So we'll really try to helppartners become the partners
that they need to be in the eraahead, but also help customers
(18:04):
understand what they need toknow to discern the truly great
partners from the mediocre ones.
Ana Welch (18:12):
Right, and that's not just, and that's not all.
Those are not all of thesessions that we're doing.
We're actually doing a lot more, yeah, so that's just the forum
right, that's just theexecutive forum.
Forum right, that's just, that'sjust the executive forum.
(18:33):
But the the point is, withinthe executive forum, we are
taking our partners andcustomers on a journey, right,
so we are doing a whole thingwhy partners need to change, how
they need to change, right?
And then what are the thingsthat you know our work must
include from now on?
So it's not just about how thepartner changes their culture,
(18:56):
but it's also about some brandnew practices that we're going
to include, which invariablymeans that we need to exclude
other stuff, because peopledon't want, all of a sudden want
to just randomly pay more sothat you can keep your
traditional way of doing things,and then adding all of the
(19:17):
trustworthy AI stuff on top ofit.
And, by the way, you need toadd all of the trustworthy stuff
on top of it because you willbe touched by all of these tools
and practices and so on and soforth.
But apart from that, we havelike Chris isn't here right, for
example, right now, but he'sgoing to be involved in the
(19:39):
keynote and then he's going todo like an agent framework
session as well, and then he'sgoing to do an expert partner
also.
So it's a really, really busyweek for us.
What other sessions are yougoing to present, mark?
Mark Smith (19:59):
Meg's coming with me .
She's doing one on AI adoptionAmazing.
Ana Welch (20:04):
She's doing a session.
Mark Smith (20:06):
And then what I'm doing is one on 10 things that
you need to do.
This is aimed more at theconsultants that are going to be
there to take your career tothe next level.
It seems a lot of people arestarting to become hyper-focused
on or concerned about theircareer futures at the moment,
(20:26):
and so it's an interesting topic.
It's an interesting time.
We've seen over the last weekwhat 6,000, 7,000 people laid
off from Microsoft and if you'rewatching LinkedIn you can see
there's some upset people outthere and can't kind of
reconcile what it means, and Ithink it's more important than
(20:47):
ever that you've got to realizeyou've got to take ownership of
your own career.
Ana Welch (20:50):
No one owes you anything.
Mark Smith (20:52):
Your employer doesn't owe you anything, and
it's really important that youdevelop a mindset of constant
learning, because we don't knowwhat the future holds, and so
I'm really hyper-focused on whatyou need to learn to be
relevant in the future, and it'sactually it's what I call like
(21:15):
mindsets that you need todevelop rather than going out
and learning a particular skill.
It's around what I call mentalmodels, and that you should be
running in your day-to-day toprepare you for the future.
But I did do listen.
Ana Welch (21:28):
I want to share something that's so interesting.
Wait, give me an example of amental model.
Mark Smith (21:34):
So a mental model would be the concept of learning
that what I've learned up tothis point is probably not going
to make me employable in fiveyears' time.
So if that's the case, you'vegot to switch off, a switch from
a.
You know, you went throughschool, you went to university,
(21:55):
you got your degree and you kindof.
If you look at the how people'slives run, there's that big
education piece before they gointo their career I feel like
sure you're just going to keeprunning that now as in, keep
re-educating but also developing, like one of the mindsets I
think is really in critical,critical to develop.
When I said critical in, I'mlike did ai just plug into me
(22:17):
because I just noticed that'sone of the words it uses a lot.
Lady, it's critical that you dothis.
It's critical as in um, as injust when, when you're working
with it.
So it seems one of the littlebugbears at the moment um, like
the em which I was talking toyou about earlier today, andrew,
the, the.
But the thing is is that whenyou get an answer, you need to
(22:37):
be responsible enough tovalidate the answer with the ai
solution.
One examples I give there was apolice officer that arrested
somebody because they were usingAI to serve up who needed to be
arrested.
Like that's very high level.
I'm talking about the arrestprofile photo.
Looked nothing like theindividual, but however the
(23:00):
camera work or in the countrywas working, it said that was
the individual to arrest.
So they arrested the dude andlike it goes to court and the
judge goes.
How could you think?
Like the profile pic and theperson don't even look anything
the same and the the officer'sdefense was well, the system
told me it was him.
So I just and it's like thiskind of full abdication of well,
(23:22):
the technology told me so.
Therefore I will obey it andnot and devoid my critical
thinking.
And so one of the mental modelsis that you need to become.
If you've never been a criticalthinker and you've been a
passive absorber of the worldaround you, you need to become.
If you've never been a criticalthinker and you've been a
passive absorber of the worldaround you, you need to change
it because, more than ever,there's going to be a lot that's
out there to manipulate yourthinking, and AI can do it so
(23:44):
effectively and will do it evenbetter in the future, and so you
need to develop a mindset toquestion.
I say question everything, likego hang on a second, is this
right?
Is the reason for me gettingthis answer?
Am someone trying to influenceme?
Does someone make money off medoing what's been recommended,
et cetera.
And it's these little thoughtprocesses that make.
(24:05):
And it's so hard today, likebecause you know when Trump was
coming into his position earlierthis year, et cetera.
I was like, how do I find anews source that's not biased?
That's not biased, that's noteither going one way he's an
idiot or the other way, sayinghe's the Messiah.
And it's like how do you find anews source?
And I've found it verydifficult to there isn't one.
Andrew Welch (24:25):
Hey, there isn't one On that topic.
I feel like the line.
Mark Smith (24:29):
It's like you take that now and amplify Anybody can
that now on, amplify, anybodycan generate any type of news
and manipulate anything.
And you know, I just think,yeah, we've got to develop mind,
mental models that allow us toact with a lot of thought, and
(24:50):
how we interface with everythinggoing on around us in the world
.
And now that's a rant, it's arant and I don't want to no, I
love it.
Ana Welch (24:55):
I'll definitely be in that.
Uh, in in that session I've gotmuch to learn.
Mark Smith (25:01):
It's, it's, it is awesome, the.
The other thing yes, I want toshow you something funny, um,
which which is?
It came to me.
Um, I was, I had somebody on apodcast and after that that
podcast, I put up this pictureand this is, by the way, my
first post on LinkedIn, I thinkpretty much this year which is
(25:23):
the Power Platform, the vibecoding for the enterprise.
But the whole idea of thisPower Platform, vibe coding for
the enterprise, and thediscussion I was having with a
CVP at Microsoft about it, wasthat you know, the future of the
Power Platform, I think, is notgoing anywhere, but the way we
(25:43):
build with the Power Platform, Ithink is going to dramatically
change in the next three years.
That's my observation.
Ana Welch (25:49):
It's already changing right.
Mark Smith (25:50):
There will be a tooling, but none of us will be
working with it.
And so I had been seeing somestuff on vibe coding.
I had whipped up a website theother day in literally 10
minutes with a prompt anddeployed it across the city and
around the world in that timepublic-facing.
It was a 30-plus page websiteand it looked freaking amazing
(26:13):
from a prompt that I gave.
And so then I go on to thiscall I and what adorned on me
the more I see microsoft put aiand co-pilot into the interfaces
and, you know, the ability toprompt a build.
I am wondering whether the powerplatform literally will become
the five coding platform, andwhy I say for the enterprise is
(26:34):
because it has all theenterprise governance and stuff
built in.
It has the, you know pipelines,alm, all that type of great
stuff supporting, and I thinkthat perhaps where we have had
low code, no code in the past, Ithink that might be.
It could potentially become thevibe code platform of the past.
I think that might be.
(26:55):
It could potentially become thevibe code platform of the
enterprise, but with thatenterprise governance, security,
rigor, all that built in.
Ana Welch (27:03):
It's got one more thing that you didn't mention.
What was that Integration?
Mark Smith (27:09):
It can integrate.
Ana Welch (27:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Mark Smith (27:12):
It just integrates.
Ana Welch (27:14):
You think the ALM isn't good enough?
Great, it just integrates withanother ALM system yeah, it just
integrates.
You think the ALM isn't goodenough?
Great, it just integrates withanother ALM system.
Yes, you think that theautomation isn't good enough?
Awesome, for that specific usecase, we use another technology.
You believe that you need amore advanced ML piece of
software functionality?
You need to train a model.
(27:34):
You need to do somethingfantastic.
Awesome, because this is whatyou will be doing, instead of
coding our back by hand.
Andrew Welch (27:43):
Yeah, well, well, and there is, and I know we're
gonna have to wrap up, we'regonna have to wrap up here.
But you know, we've been, we'vebeen having a, I've been having
a long I'm trying to think ofwhat to call it.
I don't want to call it adebate, but kind of a long
debate.
Right, one of the clients thatI work with and that Anna works
(28:08):
with as well, they've, a whileback, made a big decision to go
with, go with um uh powerplatform for some of their big
enterprise app development.
They actually hired a partner,a Microsoft partner, who was.
It was the worst partnerperformance I have ever seen.
(28:31):
I, I, I think essentially, thispartner took millions and
millions and millions of dollars, put it in a bag and set fire
to the bag.
Um, that was their primaryachievement, um, so you know
this is obviously a lot of moneyin the meantime they made a lot
of money, right?
Don't cry a tear yeah.
Um, but they, they absolutelyfleeced their, their client Um,
(28:55):
and and it was horrible um,which is part of the reason that
Anna and I have been helpingthat client work through this.
But this has left, in the mindsof some of the folks in this
organization, has left a reallybad taste for power platform.
I think that what they don'tunderstand is that what they
(29:18):
don't understand is that theythey did not have a bad
experience with the technology.
They had a bad experience withthe partner who was implementing
the technology.
So go all the way back to howwe started this discussion.
But, in any case, one of thesort of, I think, red herrings
that the naysayers in thisorganization who are not very
(29:41):
enthused about Power Platformhave thrown out is that, oh,
it's not scalable, it's reallymeant for citizen developers and
basic sorts of things and it'snot enterprise ready.
And they've actually cooked upthese wild wild architectures to
get around using Power Platformthat will cost the organization
orders of magnitude more toimplement.
(30:02):
So, anyway, I loved when I sawthe other day the Forrester Wave
.
If anyone's familiar with thosestudies, right, a new Forrester
Wave study out that rates PowerPlatform as the best offering in
(30:22):
terms of strength of strategyand strength of offering, which
is how Forrester Wave works, thebest offering in low-code
platforms for professionaldevelopers, and I thought this
was a really I loved seeing thisand it reminds me I actually
need to share this with um,share this with with our clients
.
So, on that note, beautifulwith that.
Mark Smith (30:41):
We'll uh see you next time.
Um, hopefully we'll get asession in at dynamics minds
we're on the same room, like wedid last year.
That was fun.
Um, perhaps we'll talk aboutthe inspiration that dynamics
minds uh gave us to launch ourown conference um later on in
december this year.
(31:02):
Um, that is going to be off therichter epic of epic, of
epicness.
That's something to be epic.
Andrew Welch (31:10):
Um, I'm so looking forward to it with that mark
smith's body has been inhabitedby Chris Huntingford's language
Bye guys, Bye.
Mark Smith (31:19):
Thanks for tuning into the Ecosystem Show.
We hope you found today'sdiscussion insightful and
thought-provoking, and maybe youhad a laugh or two.
Remember your feedback andchallenges help us all grow, so
don't hesitate to share yourperspective.
Stay connected with us for moreinnovative ideas and strategies
to enhance your software estate.
(31:39):
Thank you.
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