April 30, 2025 • 23 mins
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FULL SHOW NOTES
https://www.microsoftinnovationpodcast.com/682
Microsoft MVP Tiffany Songvilay shares her perspective on embracing technological change and preparing for an AI-powered future in the workplace. She explains her philosophy that fighting against inevitable change drains energy while adapting to Microsoft's vision positions professionals for success.
TAKEAWAYS
• Tiffany focuses on "whatever's new with Microsoft," currently evangelizing for Copilot while maintaining expertise in SharePoint and Viva
• Building prompt engineering skills is essential for thriving in an AI world—crafting sophisticated prompts that improve quality rather than just saving time
• AI will likely make certain jobs irrelevant rather than "taking" them, particularly impacting white-collar professions like legal and consulting
• Corporate communications, legal, and risk management are seeing significant benefits from Copilot implementation
• AI helps overcome task procrastination by making challenging work less intimidating
• Future developments may eliminate the need for traditional data structures like lists, fundamentally changing information architecture
• The MVP program's value comes from building relationships with product teams and advocating for client needs
Ready to embrace AI rather than fight against it? Listen now to discover how you can position yourself for success in Microsoft's AI-powered future—and perhaps reclaim your work-life balance in the process.
OTHER RESOURCES:
👉 Microsoft MVP YouTube Series - How to Become a Microsoft MVP - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzf0yupPbVkqdRJDPVE4PtTlm6quDhiu7
This year we're adding a new show to our line up - The AI Advantage. We'll discuss the skills you need to thrive in an AI-enabled world.
Accelerate your Microsoft career with the 90 Day Mentoring Challenge
We’ve helped 1,300+ people across 70+ countries establish successful careers in the Microsoft Power Platform and Dynamics 365 ecosystem.
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If you want to get in touch with me, you can message me here on Linkedin.
Thanks for listening 🚀 - Mark Smith
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Smith (00:06):
Welcome to the MVP show.
My intention is that you listento the stories of these MVP
guests and are inspired tobecome an MVP and bring value to
the world through your skills.
If you have not checked it outalready, I do a YouTube series
called how to Become an MVP.
The link is in the show notes.
With that, let's get on withthe show.
(00:31):
Today's guest is from Houston,texas in the United States.
She works at Avanade as a groupmanager and product management
in business and tech integration.
She was first awarded her MVPin 2024.
Her personal interests andhobbies include sport, bike
(00:51):
riding, stand-up comedy I lovethat craft beer and yin yoga.
You can find links to her bioand social media in the show
notes for this episode.
As always, welcome to the show,Tiffany.
Tiffany Songvilay (00:58):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
Mark Smith (01:01):
I'm excited to have you on.
I always like to start withfood, family and fun.
Happy to be here.
Tiffany Songvilay (01:04):
I'm excited to have you on I always like to
start with food, family and fun.
What do they mean to you?
Food for sure I do enjoycooking.
During the pandemic there wasan Indian restaurant that did
classes, so for some amount ofmoney you could go and you could
pick up the ingredients.
And then you came home and thenyou over zoom, you did some
(01:31):
cooking.
So I learned how to do someIndian cooking.
So food for me is important.
I think that bleeds into family.
So for me I'm very big intofamily by choice.
And the people that you share ameal with or that you invite
over to your house, to me thoseare people kind of more in your
inner circle.
And fun I mean you've alreadykind of more in your inner
circle.
And fun I mean you've alreadysaid it I love to ride my
motorcycle.
I've got a great group of womenthat I ride with.
We do a couple of rallies eachyear where we take our
(01:56):
motorcycles to different placesand ride them in a parade.
So that's a lot of fun.
I'm also in a bowling leagueWow.
Mark Smith (02:06):
Wow, very diverse.
It's a lot of choices to choosefrom.
There then for fun.
Tiffany Songvilay (02:12):
Yeah.
Mark Smith (02:14):
Tell me about the area of tech that you focus on.
Tiffany Songvilay (02:18):
Oh yeah for sure.
So I think the best way to sayit is I do whatever's new with
Microsoft.
So I started in SharePoint,went to Power Platform you know
I still do migrations andintranet modernizations but now
(02:39):
everything is about Copilot andCopilot is now at the center of
the wheel and so I'm now ourCopilot evangelist.
I'm a co-pilot MVP that's whatmy MVP and co-pilot and
SharePoint and Viva.
I know we kind of lost track ofViva, but I'm still a huge
engage fan working with internalcomms people yeah, so pretty
(03:03):
much employee experience.
There are things I'm not supergood at, Like you probably
wouldn't call me if you needed aWindows 11 upgrade or an Intune
, but pretty much anythinginside of that modern workplace
space that is collaboration orknowledge management centered.
Mark Smith (03:21):
I like it.
I want to unpack a comment thatyou made there, which was you
do you work on whatever's newfor Microsoft?
Tell me about your philosophybehind that and why people
really need to understand theimportance of that, particularly
if you consult in the space.
Tiffany Songvilay (03:38):
Yeah for sure.
Actually, it was Caruana lastweek at MVP Summit and she put
that slide up with Copilot inthe middle, and that, for me,
change management is so key whenyou're talking about Microsoft
technologies.
And the reason is is because ifMicrosoft tells you you're
(03:59):
going to the cloud, you're goingto the cloud.
If Microsoft says you're goingto use Copilot, you're going to
use Copilot.
So I always say change isn'thard, it's fighting the change
that kills you.
Right, that's what's going toexhaust you.
So, for me, I supportwhatever's new with Microsoft,
(04:19):
because because that is thevision for the future, and so,
whether or not a CTO or a CIOwants to go there, eventually
their business will insist on it, and at this point you have to
have an AI strategy.
Mark Smith (04:41):
I'm on board.
I totally agree.
The interesting thing there inyour comment as in from a change
in adoption perspective, isthat, for the first time in
history, different thanMicrosoft Teams, no one was
worried about Microsoft Teamsreplacing their job.
Right, but people, when itcomes to change, might be very
(05:03):
concerned that AI because wehear it in the news all the time
and then we hear kind of like,well, AI won't take your job,
but somebody that's good atusing AI will take your job.
Where I'm of the opinion.
I just published a post an hourago which says no, ai is going
to take your job and therefore,what do you do?
What do you do in that scenario?
How do you help people that areare fearful that ai will take
(05:27):
their job?
Um, because, as you say, it'sgoing to happen as an, if you're
like, the technology is goingto happen.
Um, people are going to makegood use of it, people are going
to innovate with it, but wheredoes that leave people?
Let's say, in five years time,if you're in this information
worker space?
Tiffany Songvilay (05:44):
Yeah.
So I'm actually going to stealmy answer from Aaron Reich.
He is one of our leaders hereat Avanade and he said to us
something that was reallyinteresting and that was in the
mid-90s.
Could we imagine all the jobsthat came out of Amazon, right?
(06:05):
So it's a matter of similar towhat you just said.
Yes, it's going to, yes, it'sgoing to.
I'm not going to say it's goingto take jobs, right.
I would rather say it's goingto make some jobs irrelevant or
unnecessary or unnecessary.
(06:30):
And so it is our responsibility, I believe, as tech advisors
and good partners with ourclients, to help them see the
future of work, and the truth iswe're not so sure what that
looks like yet.
So for me, it's a hugeopportunity for people to get
into this space, learn as muchas they can to help define that
future.
Mark Smith (06:48):
Yeah, so, so important.
And are you seeing kind of ifyou think about skills that
people should be adopting ordeveloping now to kind of future
ready themselves?
I don't believe in future proof, I don't think that's possible
anymore, because we just neverknow what's coming next.
But how do you really gain newskills in an ai world?
(07:11):
From your perspective, and eventhe work that you've done with
co-pilot, what are you seeingthat's really allowing people to
, to upgrade their skill levelusing this tech?
Tiffany Songvilay (07:26):
Yeah, I think for me, you start with
prompt engineering, you learnhow to write a really good
prompt and you practice, youpractice prompting.
I mean, I want you to useprompts that might take you an
hour to build.
I want you to use prompts thataren't just an internet search,
(07:48):
right, because you know theynamed it co-pilot for a reason,
and it really is supposed to belike an assistant, somebody you
can bounce ideas off of,somebody who can draft that that
first.
You know email, right, andthese things seem so simple.
(08:09):
I think what's stopping peopleis they're like, well, well, I
can do this myself, you know, soI might as well just do it
myself, but to me, in the timeit takes you to do it yourself,
is you could have crafted aprompt that increases the
quality of what you can doyourself.
(08:31):
It helps you not get distracted,right?
Think about neurodivergence andADHD really being able to focus
on the task at hand and usingthat technology to benefit you.
So for me, I feel like this isone of those.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
I do believe that, yes, we willbe able forget about the taking
(08:56):
jobs, because the truth is it'sprobably coming from AI, is
coming for expensive resources.
It's coming for white collar.
It's coming for lawyers.
It's coming for white collar.
It's coming for lawyers.
It's coming for consultants.
So think about people who arejust now entering their career,
or entry-level folks.
It is going to help elevatetheir ability to do their job,
(09:21):
and I think that someone wholearns prompt engineering is the
future of work.
So that's where I would start.
Mark Smith (09:30):
I like it.
I like it.
What are you seeing in theprojects that you're involved in
, without revealing customersnames, etc.
But what are you seeing is isworking really well, like what
are the scenarios that you seethat people you know?
Obviously we've got thesummarization of meetings and
we've now got agent-assistedaround meetings and things like
that.
We've got things like you knowthose drafting emails, but are
(09:55):
you seeing stuff outside thatarena where people are really
starting to get some massivebenefits?
Tiffany Songvilay (10:04):
Yeah, gets a massive benefits.
Yeah, so there are.
There are a couple of jobfunctions and a couple of
industries, so for me, I focus alot on people who have to do a
lot of research people so, sales, marketing and, uh, internal
communications.
People who have to, who have to, um, technical writers, right,
(10:25):
people who have to taketechnical writers, right, people
who have to take a concept andtry to understand it.
So one of my favorite promptsis tell me about this thing
using an analogy, right, likeusing a sports analogy or using
some kind of an analogy, so itallows me to understand
something very quickly.
So, again, sales marketing,internal communications, legal,
(10:55):
I will tell you.
Actually, let me pick that asmy number one.
And they even have a customagent where they've taken all of
their approved contracts andlanguage and all of that, and
they're able to use Copilot toactually craft new writers or
(11:18):
new pieces in the contract but,more importantly, review a
contract that a client hasbrought back with a comment and
ask Copilot, what are the risksin me accepting this wording?
So I think risk management is ahuge, huge place where I would
expect to see M365 co-pilot.
(11:40):
So corporate communications butalso risk management.
Mark Smith (11:45):
I like it, I like it and so so relevant, and it's
great to hear that legal usecase because it's something that
I'm coming across a lot as well.
In fact, my neighbor's a lawyerand she was like, oh, it feels
a bit like I'm cheating, and youknow when I use it.
And I but you know my raised acertain interesting point and
(12:05):
she was like, well, but you know, as a lawyer, whether what it's
returning is correct, where, ifI wrote that same prompt and
got that result?
I don't know, because I don'thave the legal profession right,
so so I'm just guessing thatit's got it right where you.
So it's not cheating, becausethere's no way I could validate
what came out, because I'm nottrained in that area of law that
(12:27):
you focus on, and so I do thinkthat there needs.
I don't, and I think it'll fallaway, naturally, this kind of
concept of is it cheating?
Should I?
Tiffany Songvilay (12:36):
you know, um , I think that well, and it's
also am I supposed to divulgethat co-pilot did this right
like and I think that's wherewhere the concept of cheating is
coming in is people are kind ofashamed that they used it right
, and so I agree that feelingneeds to fall away.
Mark Smith (12:57):
Yeah, but it's interesting, it is, it totally
does Like if I write a blog post, I'm dyslexic and so therefore
I don't do good via keyboardinput, right.
So what I do?
I take my iPhone, I go outsideand I have a concept and I will
record for 30 minutes into justthe recording app on my iPhone
(13:21):
and I just download my thoughtsand it's you know, because I'm
neurodivergent it's all over theplace, right.
And then I take it, I useWhisper, I have it, you know,
transcribed out into text.
Then I will give that to aco-pilot and say, hey, make, can
you see the patterns in whatI'm talking about?
What's the structure of this?
(13:42):
What's the core point?
And so was it AI written orwell, I think it's a very much a
, you know, an assisted process.
Right, it was all my originalthought.
It just structured my thinkingand and I like your term before
you mention analogies and howanalogies are so important in
communication and to know youraudience, you're going to change
(14:03):
the analogy so it the messagelands, and I think AI is
massively powerful in assistingin that scenario.
Tiffany Songvilay (14:11):
Yeah, 100%, and I think we need more of this
.
I think, instead of beingscared about it, I think we need
more companies to startcreating think tanks around AI
and how the company can use it.
And even if AI here's what Ithink is going to happen You're
(14:36):
going to come up with thingsthat just can't be done yet,
right, but you're going to putthat on a roadmap so that, when
the technology is ready for you,you already know how you're
going to use it.
I think that's what happenedwith M365.
Copilot is people kind of gotblindsided by it.
It just kind of showed up inthe market and there was no real
(14:57):
clear understanding other thanthis blanket statement that AI
is going to make your businessbetter.
Well, that's not very helpful.
I need to know how.
So what we're hearing fromclients is they want to know the
industry specific use cases,because they need to understand
from a total cost of ownershiphow having AI is going to impact
(15:21):
their bottom line.
So even Microsoft says this.
Think about every productMicrosoft has ever rolled out.
They always roll out somethingfor productivity.
And then we get into businessand business realizes you can't
measure productivity.
And in fact, somebody last weeksaid they said I'm sick and
(15:43):
tired of you telling me thatit's going to make me more
productive.
I am a highly productive person.
I don't want to hear that Ineed to get more work done with
less.
That is not what I want to hear.
But if you tell me that I canstop working 10-hour days, or if
you can tell me that I won'tfeel guilty taking every other
(16:05):
Friday off, right, whatever thatis, don't make me more
productive.
Get me out of working overtime.
Mark Smith (16:12):
Yeah, it's so true, right, Is that?
So many people you know thatare productive work way too many
hours, way more than perhapseven what they're paid for in
most situations, and this isgoing to allow balance to that
right.
Spend more time with family, Ijust like that idea.
It means I can get home, youknow, pick my kids up from
school or daycare in my case.
I love that right and it's thatproductivity.
(16:35):
Even just before this, I've gota website that I need designed.
It was in my diary to do justone task write a design brief.
I went to AI I said, hey, Ineed a website design.
This is the audience, this iswhat I want to achieve.
This is the parameters and I'mgoing to be posting it on a.
I use a tool called 99designsfor my design work and graphic
(16:58):
designers bid on doing that work.
Now, if I had tried that twoyears ago, that would have I
would have needed a lot morethan the 20 minutes it took me
to do that brief, right?
But allow me to get stuff doneand I really like that concept
of it.
Allows you to get stuff done.
Um, now, and uh, I think, yeah,it's, it's amazing.
Tell me about your highlightfrom MVP summit this year.
Tiffany Songvilay (17:22):
Hmm, well, let me go back real quick and
then I'll come back to that.
I believe that what AI or Iknow that what AI does for me is
I stop.
I stop fearing tasks that I'mnot good at, and so I'm, and so
I will actually bite off thetask that I know AI can help me
(17:43):
with, which is typicallysomething I would have
procrastinated to do becausemaybe I'm not good at it.
Right, those are the tasks I'mnot good at that I can't do in
30 minutes.
But now I'm like you know what?
I'm gonna let AI help me dothis, and something I thought
was going to take me an hour, ofcourse just takes me that 15 or
(18:05):
20 minutes.
So I just wanted to validate,uh, what you were saying there.
Yeah, as far as what I took awayfrom MVP summit, I'm going to
tell you something that one ofthe presenters said that blew my
mind.
He was talking about powerpages, and you know where the
data comes from, you know for,for power pages, and he just
(18:28):
flippantly, just like everybodyalready felt this way, he says
well, eventually we won't needlists.
And my brain just broke becausehe's right.
What happens in a world whereit doesn't matter where it is in
(18:53):
the database, right, like wherethe list can be created on
demand and then automate a task.
And then that list, we don'thave to store it anymore, you
don't have to store that listanywhere anymore.
And I just think, man, what afuture If we can consistently
make it so that we don't need alist.
(19:14):
We just got better didn't we?
Mark Smith (19:18):
I think it applies to navigation as well.
Yeah Well, we need navigationright.
As long as the data's there andit's accessible.
Produce it in the format that'srelevant to whatever I'm doing
right now.
I think it is, and that's whatI like.
Those nuggets, those kind ofsound bites, that kind of become
pivoted points in your thinkingright and allows you to switch
(19:41):
paradigms and move forward.
I think you've given abrilliant example of one of the
benefits of going to Summit andhanging around amazing, amazing
people.
Final thoughts what are the?
What's the value of the MVPprogram to you?
Tiffany Songvilay (19:59):
So this was my first year, and so when I
gave my feedback to other MVPs,they said you know, that's what
it's like your first year, right, but it gets better.
So I don't want to say I wasdisappointed in it, it was just,
you know and I think Microsofttakes responsibility for this
(20:22):
too Microsoft is no longer braveenough to give MVPs information
before they're ready toannounce it.
So my disappointment was I feltlike this was just another
opportunity for Microsoft toannounce things, because they
were literally presentingsomething to us and we asked
(20:43):
when it was going to come out,and they're like the
announcement's going to come outin two hours or it's going to
be in GA next week.
And I'm like, well then, whatam I doing here, right, other
than to be kind of a marketingengine?
And so I think for me, thevalue I expected to get out of
MVP Summit and what I think willhappen in future years is as I
(21:07):
develop those relationships withthe product team.
Apparently there are thingswhere there are like side
conversations or side meetingswhere you're able to actually
contribute to the life cycle orthe path of a product, and so I
think for me the value is andI'm trying to be altruistic
(21:29):
about it, it's it's my abilityto take my client's stories
directly to the product team,and if that's all I get out of
this program, it was worth it.
Mark Smith (21:44):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I'm your host businessapplication MVP Mark Smith,
otherwise known as the NZ365 guy.
If you like the show and wantto be a supporter, check out
buymeacoffeecom forward slashNZ365 guy.
Thanks again and see you nexttime.
Thank you.
Welcome to the MVP show.
My intention is that you listento the stories of these MVP
guests and are inspired tobecome an MVP and bring value to
the world through your skills.
If you have not checked it outalready, I do a YouTube series
called how to Become an MVP.
The link is in the show notes.
With that, let's get on withthe show.
(00:31):
Today's guest is from Houston,texas in the United States.
She works at Avanade as a groupmanager and product management
in business and tech integration.
She was first awarded her MVPin 2024.
Her personal interests andhobbies include sport, bike
(00:51):
riding, stand-up comedy I lovethat craft beer and yin yoga.
You can find links to her bioand social media in the show
notes for this episode.
As always, welcome to the show,Tiffany.
Tiffany Songvilay (00:58):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
Mark Smith (01:01):
I'm excited to have you on.
I always like to start withfood, family and fun.
Happy to be here.
Tiffany Songvilay (01:04):
I'm excited to have you on I always like to
start with food, family and fun.
What do they mean to you?
Food for sure I do enjoycooking.
During the pandemic there wasan Indian restaurant that did
classes, so for some amount ofmoney you could go and you could
pick up the ingredients.
And then you came home and thenyou over zoom, you did some
(01:31):
cooking.
So I learned how to do someIndian cooking.
So food for me is important.
I think that bleeds into family.
So for me I'm very big intofamily by choice.
And the people that you share ameal with or that you invite
over to your house, to me thoseare people kind of more in your
inner circle.
And fun I mean you've alreadykind of more in your inner
circle.
And fun I mean you've alreadysaid it I love to ride my
motorcycle.
I've got a great group of womenthat I ride with.
We do a couple of rallies eachyear where we take our
(01:56):
motorcycles to different placesand ride them in a parade.
So that's a lot of fun.
I'm also in a bowling leagueWow.
Mark Smith (02:06):
Wow, very diverse.
It's a lot of choices to choosefrom.
There then for fun.
Tiffany Songvilay (02:12):
Yeah.
Mark Smith (02:14):
Tell me about the area of tech that you focus on.
Tiffany Songvilay (02:18):
Oh yeah for sure.
So I think the best way to sayit is I do whatever's new with
Microsoft.
So I started in SharePoint,went to Power Platform you know
I still do migrations andintranet modernizations but now
(02:39):
everything is about Copilot andCopilot is now at the center of
the wheel and so I'm now ourCopilot evangelist.
I'm a co-pilot MVP that's whatmy MVP and co-pilot and
SharePoint and Viva.
I know we kind of lost track ofViva, but I'm still a huge
engage fan working with internalcomms people yeah, so pretty
(03:03):
much employee experience.
There are things I'm not supergood at, Like you probably
wouldn't call me if you needed aWindows 11 upgrade or an Intune
, but pretty much anythinginside of that modern workplace
space that is collaboration orknowledge management centered.
Mark Smith (03:21):
I like it.
I want to unpack a comment thatyou made there, which was you
do you work on whatever's newfor Microsoft?
Tell me about your philosophybehind that and why people
really need to understand theimportance of that, particularly
if you consult in the space.
Tiffany Songvilay (03:38):
Yeah for sure.
Actually, it was Caruana lastweek at MVP Summit and she put
that slide up with Copilot inthe middle, and that, for me,
change management is so key whenyou're talking about Microsoft
technologies.
And the reason is is because ifMicrosoft tells you you're
(03:59):
going to the cloud, you're goingto the cloud.
If Microsoft says you're goingto use Copilot, you're going to
use Copilot.
So I always say change isn'thard, it's fighting the change
that kills you.
Right, that's what's going toexhaust you.
So, for me, I supportwhatever's new with Microsoft,
(04:19):
because because that is thevision for the future, and so,
whether or not a CTO or a CIOwants to go there, eventually
their business will insist on it, and at this point you have to
have an AI strategy.
Mark Smith (04:41):
I'm on board.
I totally agree.
The interesting thing there inyour comment as in from a change
in adoption perspective, isthat, for the first time in
history, different thanMicrosoft Teams, no one was
worried about Microsoft Teamsreplacing their job.
Right, but people, when itcomes to change, might be very
(05:03):
concerned that AI because wehear it in the news all the time
and then we hear kind of like,well, AI won't take your job,
but somebody that's good atusing AI will take your job.
Where I'm of the opinion.
I just published a post an hourago which says no, ai is going
to take your job and therefore,what do you do?
What do you do in that scenario?
How do you help people that areare fearful that ai will take
(05:27):
their job?
Um, because, as you say, it'sgoing to happen as an, if you're
like, the technology is goingto happen.
Um, people are going to makegood use of it, people are going
to innovate with it, but wheredoes that leave people?
Let's say, in five years time,if you're in this information
worker space?
Tiffany Songvilay (05:44):
Yeah.
So I'm actually going to stealmy answer from Aaron Reich.
He is one of our leaders hereat Avanade and he said to us
something that was reallyinteresting and that was in the
mid-90s.
Could we imagine all the jobsthat came out of Amazon, right?
(06:05):
So it's a matter of similar towhat you just said.
Yes, it's going to, yes, it'sgoing to.
I'm not going to say it's goingto take jobs, right.
I would rather say it's goingto make some jobs irrelevant or
unnecessary or unnecessary.
(06:30):
And so it is our responsibility, I believe, as tech advisors
and good partners with ourclients, to help them see the
future of work, and the truth iswe're not so sure what that
looks like yet.
So for me, it's a hugeopportunity for people to get
into this space, learn as muchas they can to help define that
future.
Mark Smith (06:48):
Yeah, so, so important.
And are you seeing kind of ifyou think about skills that
people should be adopting ordeveloping now to kind of future
ready themselves?
I don't believe in future proof, I don't think that's possible
anymore, because we just neverknow what's coming next.
But how do you really gain newskills in an ai world?
(07:11):
From your perspective, and eventhe work that you've done with
co-pilot, what are you seeingthat's really allowing people to
, to upgrade their skill levelusing this tech?
Tiffany Songvilay (07:26):
Yeah, I think for me, you start with
prompt engineering, you learnhow to write a really good
prompt and you practice, youpractice prompting.
I mean, I want you to useprompts that might take you an
hour to build.
I want you to use prompts thataren't just an internet search,
(07:48):
right, because you know theynamed it co-pilot for a reason,
and it really is supposed to belike an assistant, somebody you
can bounce ideas off of,somebody who can draft that that
first.
You know email, right, andthese things seem so simple.
(08:09):
I think what's stopping peopleis they're like, well, well, I
can do this myself, you know, soI might as well just do it
myself, but to me, in the timeit takes you to do it yourself,
is you could have crafted aprompt that increases the
quality of what you can doyourself.
(08:31):
It helps you not get distracted,right?
Think about neurodivergence andADHD really being able to focus
on the task at hand and usingthat technology to benefit you.
So for me, I feel like this isone of those.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
I do believe that, yes, we willbe able forget about the taking
(08:56):
jobs, because the truth is it'sprobably coming from AI, is
coming for expensive resources.
It's coming for white collar.
It's coming for lawyers.
It's coming for white collar.
It's coming for lawyers.
It's coming for consultants.
So think about people who arejust now entering their career,
or entry-level folks.
It is going to help elevatetheir ability to do their job,
(09:21):
and I think that someone wholearns prompt engineering is the
future of work.
So that's where I would start.
Mark Smith (09:30):
I like it.
I like it.
What are you seeing in theprojects that you're involved in
, without revealing customersnames, etc.
But what are you seeing is isworking really well, like what
are the scenarios that you seethat people you know?
Obviously we've got thesummarization of meetings and
we've now got agent-assistedaround meetings and things like
that.
We've got things like you knowthose drafting emails, but are
(09:55):
you seeing stuff outside thatarena where people are really
starting to get some massivebenefits?
Tiffany Songvilay (10:04):
Yeah, gets a massive benefits.
Yeah, so there are.
There are a couple of jobfunctions and a couple of
industries, so for me, I focus alot on people who have to do a
lot of research people so, sales, marketing and, uh, internal
communications.
People who have to, who have to, um, technical writers, right,
(10:25):
people who have to taketechnical writers, right, people
who have to take a concept andtry to understand it.
So one of my favorite promptsis tell me about this thing
using an analogy, right, likeusing a sports analogy or using
some kind of an analogy, so itallows me to understand
something very quickly.
So, again, sales marketing,internal communications, legal,
(10:55):
I will tell you.
Actually, let me pick that asmy number one.
And they even have a customagent where they've taken all of
their approved contracts andlanguage and all of that, and
they're able to use Copilot toactually craft new writers or
(11:18):
new pieces in the contract but,more importantly, review a
contract that a client hasbrought back with a comment and
ask Copilot, what are the risksin me accepting this wording?
So I think risk management is ahuge, huge place where I would
expect to see M365 co-pilot.
(11:40):
So corporate communications butalso risk management.
Mark Smith (11:45):
I like it, I like it and so so relevant, and it's
great to hear that legal usecase because it's something that
I'm coming across a lot as well.
In fact, my neighbor's a lawyerand she was like, oh, it feels
a bit like I'm cheating, and youknow when I use it.
And I but you know my raised acertain interesting point and
(12:05):
she was like, well, but you know, as a lawyer, whether what it's
returning is correct, where, ifI wrote that same prompt and
got that result?
I don't know, because I don'thave the legal profession right,
so so I'm just guessing thatit's got it right where you.
So it's not cheating, becausethere's no way I could validate
what came out, because I'm nottrained in that area of law that
(12:27):
you focus on, and so I do thinkthat there needs.
I don't, and I think it'll fallaway, naturally, this kind of
concept of is it cheating?
Should I?
Tiffany Songvilay (12:36):
you know, um , I think that well, and it's
also am I supposed to divulgethat co-pilot did this right
like and I think that's wherewhere the concept of cheating is
coming in is people are kind ofashamed that they used it right
, and so I agree that feelingneeds to fall away.
Mark Smith (12:57):
Yeah, but it's interesting, it is, it totally
does Like if I write a blog post, I'm dyslexic and so therefore
I don't do good via keyboardinput, right.
So what I do?
I take my iPhone, I go outsideand I have a concept and I will
record for 30 minutes into justthe recording app on my iPhone
(13:21):
and I just download my thoughtsand it's you know, because I'm
neurodivergent it's all over theplace, right.
And then I take it, I useWhisper, I have it, you know,
transcribed out into text.
Then I will give that to aco-pilot and say, hey, make, can
you see the patterns in whatI'm talking about?
What's the structure of this?
(13:42):
What's the core point?
And so was it AI written orwell, I think it's a very much a
, you know, an assisted process.
Right, it was all my originalthought.
It just structured my thinkingand and I like your term before
you mention analogies and howanalogies are so important in
communication and to know youraudience, you're going to change
(14:03):
the analogy so it the messagelands, and I think AI is
massively powerful in assistingin that scenario.
Tiffany Songvilay (14:11):
Yeah, 100%, and I think we need more of this
.
I think, instead of beingscared about it, I think we need
more companies to startcreating think tanks around AI
and how the company can use it.
And even if AI here's what Ithink is going to happen You're
(14:36):
going to come up with thingsthat just can't be done yet,
right, but you're going to putthat on a roadmap so that, when
the technology is ready for you,you already know how you're
going to use it.
I think that's what happenedwith M365.
Copilot is people kind of gotblindsided by it.
It just kind of showed up inthe market and there was no real
(14:57):
clear understanding other thanthis blanket statement that AI
is going to make your businessbetter.
Well, that's not very helpful.
I need to know how.
So what we're hearing fromclients is they want to know the
industry specific use cases,because they need to understand
from a total cost of ownershiphow having AI is going to impact
(15:21):
their bottom line.
So even Microsoft says this.
Think about every productMicrosoft has ever rolled out.
They always roll out somethingfor productivity.
And then we get into businessand business realizes you can't
measure productivity.
And in fact, somebody last weeksaid they said I'm sick and
(15:43):
tired of you telling me thatit's going to make me more
productive.
I am a highly productive person.
I don't want to hear that Ineed to get more work done with
less.
That is not what I want to hear.
But if you tell me that I canstop working 10-hour days, or if
you can tell me that I won'tfeel guilty taking every other
(16:05):
Friday off, right, whatever thatis, don't make me more
productive.
Get me out of working overtime.
Mark Smith (16:12):
Yeah, it's so true, right, Is that?
So many people you know thatare productive work way too many
hours, way more than perhapseven what they're paid for in
most situations, and this isgoing to allow balance to that
right.
Spend more time with family, Ijust like that idea.
It means I can get home, youknow, pick my kids up from
school or daycare in my case.
I love that right and it's thatproductivity.
(16:35):
Even just before this, I've gota website that I need designed.
It was in my diary to do justone task write a design brief.
I went to AI I said, hey, Ineed a website design.
This is the audience, this iswhat I want to achieve.
This is the parameters and I'mgoing to be posting it on a.
I use a tool called 99designsfor my design work and graphic
(16:58):
designers bid on doing that work.
Now, if I had tried that twoyears ago, that would have I
would have needed a lot morethan the 20 minutes it took me
to do that brief, right?
But allow me to get stuff doneand I really like that concept
of it.
Allows you to get stuff done.
Um, now, and uh, I think, yeah,it's, it's amazing.
Tell me about your highlightfrom MVP summit this year.
Tiffany Songvilay (17:22):
Hmm, well, let me go back real quick and
then I'll come back to that.
I believe that what AI or Iknow that what AI does for me is
I stop.
I stop fearing tasks that I'mnot good at, and so I'm, and so
I will actually bite off thetask that I know AI can help me
(17:43):
with, which is typicallysomething I would have
procrastinated to do becausemaybe I'm not good at it.
Right, those are the tasks I'mnot good at that I can't do in
30 minutes.
But now I'm like you know what?
I'm gonna let AI help me dothis, and something I thought
was going to take me an hour, ofcourse just takes me that 15 or
(18:05):
20 minutes.
So I just wanted to validate,uh, what you were saying there.
Yeah, as far as what I took awayfrom MVP summit, I'm going to
tell you something that one ofthe presenters said that blew my
mind.
He was talking about powerpages, and you know where the
data comes from, you know for,for power pages, and he just
(18:28):
flippantly, just like everybodyalready felt this way, he says
well, eventually we won't needlists.
And my brain just broke becausehe's right.
What happens in a world whereit doesn't matter where it is in
(18:53):
the database, right, like wherethe list can be created on
demand and then automate a task.
And then that list, we don'thave to store it anymore, you
don't have to store that listanywhere anymore.
And I just think, man, what afuture If we can consistently
make it so that we don't need alist.
(19:14):
We just got better didn't we?
Mark Smith (19:18):
I think it applies to navigation as well.
Yeah Well, we need navigationright.
As long as the data's there andit's accessible.
Produce it in the format that'srelevant to whatever I'm doing
right now.
I think it is, and that's whatI like.
Those nuggets, those kind ofsound bites, that kind of become
pivoted points in your thinkingright and allows you to switch
(19:41):
paradigms and move forward.
I think you've given abrilliant example of one of the
benefits of going to Summit andhanging around amazing, amazing
people.
Final thoughts what are the?
What's the value of the MVPprogram to you?
Tiffany Songvilay (19:59):
So this was my first year, and so when I
gave my feedback to other MVPs,they said you know, that's what
it's like your first year, right, but it gets better.
So I don't want to say I wasdisappointed in it, it was just,
you know and I think Microsofttakes responsibility for this
(20:22):
too Microsoft is no longer braveenough to give MVPs information
before they're ready toannounce it.
So my disappointment was I feltlike this was just another
opportunity for Microsoft toannounce things, because they
were literally presentingsomething to us and we asked
(20:43):
when it was going to come out,and they're like the
announcement's going to come outin two hours or it's going to
be in GA next week.
And I'm like, well then, whatam I doing here, right, other
than to be kind of a marketingengine?
And so I think for me, thevalue I expected to get out of
MVP Summit and what I think willhappen in future years is as I
(21:07):
develop those relationships withthe product team.
Apparently there are thingswhere there are like side
conversations or side meetingswhere you're able to actually
contribute to the life cycle orthe path of a product, and so I
think for me the value is andI'm trying to be altruistic
(21:29):
about it, it's it's my abilityto take my client's stories
directly to the product team,and if that's all I get out of
this program, it was worth it.
Mark Smith (21:44):
Hey, thanks for listening.
I'm your host businessapplication MVP Mark Smith,
otherwise known as the NZ365 guy.
If you like the show and wantto be a supporter, check out
buymeacoffeecom forward slashNZ365 guy.
Thanks again and see you nexttime.
Thank you.
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