August 12, 2024 • 20 mins
Tom Panos, John McGrath, and Troy Malcolm dive deep into insights from Ryan Holiday, a modern-day philosopher renowned for his works on stoic philosophy.
We discuss the importance of humility, continuous learning, and the concept of "two sacred hours" for productivity.
Key takeaways include:
- setting firm goals
- embracing the process over ego, and
- preparing for unexpected challenges with "panic rules."
This episode blends philosophy with actionable steps for agents to invoke their inner-Stoic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Panos (00:03):
Tom Panos, john McGrath, troy, malcolm, million
Dollar Agent, and today you arein for a treat, a deep dive with
Ryan Holiday.
And I'm saying it, I'm puttingit on the record, I've actually
told everyone I've spoken tothis week or last week the best
two hours of education I've hadin living memory came in that
(00:27):
room there.
By the way, guys,congratulations, you've got a
beautiful office.
Had not been into your newoffice, but we had a great time.
Troy and John, I was blown awaybecause I mean, what do they say
?
When the student's ready, theteacher will appear.
I think he was just like he'sjust come at the right time, and
(00:51):
what I thought that we'd dotoday is just to go through
three or four, maybe five thingsthat we all picked up that
really resonated in the timethat we had with Ryan, john and
congratulations, john, I wasthinking about it, I was
explaining it to one of yourMcGrath people.
And and congratulations, john,I was thinking about it, I was
explaining it to one of yourMcGrath people.
And you know to be able, youknow your ability to be able to
(01:14):
get people like that in, to comeinto your organisation is
fantastic.
And he actually said to me I'mblessed, I'm blessed.
So he was very, very happy hewas there as well.
John McGrath (01:24):
No thanks, thanks, tommy.
It's funny.
Two observations, that, or justlittle side notes before we
start.
So I think today we're going tounpack what each of the three
of us sort of took away.
First thing was, of all thepeople I know, I agree with you,
he is the world-classmodern-day philosopher genius.
(01:44):
I love him and I think he'sjust incredible.
But he's also one of the mosthumble people I've met, and the
three of us being on thispodcast regularly, all the time,
consistently that in ourindustry it's such a pity that
people get a little bit ofsuccess and they start acting
like they're God's gift to theplanet.
Little bit of success and theystart acting like they're God's
(02:07):
gift to the planet.
He was just another reminderthat real, true success embodies
humility, which I think isactually one of the Stoic
philosophies as well.
That's number one.
Number two is I was speaking theday before actually on the
Friday before the Monday, so acouple of days before to Michael
Maguire.
I guess most rugby leaguefollowers would know him to be
(02:27):
the ex-coach of South Sydney andmore recently the coach of the
New South Wales team that wonthe State of Origin, and I was
just chatting to him about stuff.
And I said to him look, youprobably wouldn't be interested,
but I've got this guy coming onMonday.
And I said you know, this iswhat he talks about, if you'd
like to come and be a you knowparticipant.
And he said I will be there,like I'll be the first person
(02:50):
there, which, by the way, he was.
And it's interesting that, again, the true successful people
never stop learning.
So here's a guy who's at theheight of his success.
You know, just had thehistorical win in the tough,
probably the toughest rugbyleague battle in the world, you
know, new South Wales versusQueensland, and he was the first
(03:10):
person to the event.
He didn't need to be askedtwice.
He said I don't know him, I'lltake your word, it sounds
fascinating, I'll be there, justlet me know what time and when.
So again, humility and neverstop learning.
They were just two things fromtwo great people, and I know you
sat next to and chatted forquite a while with Michael
McGuire, tom, and I'm sure you'dagree with me that he's just a
(03:34):
humble, just a lovely guy too.
Tom Panos (03:36):
I don't know, I was a bit starstruck I mean, it's not
like he's a movie star, but thefact that I've been a West
Tiger supporter and I actuallydid like him and I'd watch the
Tales of Tiger Town, which wasvery much centred on him, and
seeing his personality.
But, john, if you remember,towards the end I actually said
(03:57):
to Mag I said, was this relevantfor you?
And he just looked up and hesaid that's my life, this is my
life, that's right, I was there.
John McGrath (04:10):
I remember you were there Successfully.
Sometimes they're in theclassroom listening to people
like Ryan and sometimes they'reobserving people like Ryan or
Michael McGuire and just peoplein everyday life.
But I know today we're going tofocus on what were the key
things that we took out of itand I'll tell you what the hard
bit for me is going to be tryingto whittle it down to a small
(04:32):
few.
But I'm going to open thebatting.
I used to like opening thebatting Trosie as a youngster,
before playing cricket.
I used to like getting outthere.
So a couple of things that Igot out of it.
He so a couple of things that Igot out of it.
He talked about James Clear,who also spoke at ARIC a few
years ago Atomic Habits and hesaid you know one of the things
(04:52):
from meeting and interviewingJames Clear was he said the
greatest thing for him was hehad two sacred hours in the
morning to write and he saidnothing would interrupt them no
social media, no appointments,no meetings.
And so again, I was justimmediately thinking about that,
tommy, that again, if agentshad two sacred hours every
(05:13):
morning where nothing everinterrupted it and they
prospected, they rang pastclients.
They rang current vendors.
They rang hot buyers.
They rang people that wererelevant.
Where have recent sales takenplace?
Whatever is your prospectingplan, expired listings and so
forth, two sacred hours a daywould be the only thing you
(05:34):
would need to do to actually endup being a world-class agent.
That would be about all.
If you just did that every dayand you had a modicum of talent,
that would be enough to get youthere.
So that was.
I really loved that idea.
And the second one that I got,which I loved, which was very
similar.
He talked about because he'swritten I think it's 13
(05:55):
best-selling books and I thinkthey've each averaged about a
million in terms of about amillion sales each.
And he talked about the factthat every day he just wrote a
few crappy pages was his kind ofwording and it's interesting
but important the wording thathe had behind it a few crappy
pages.
He said look, if I'd have setout every time I wrote a book to
(06:16):
write a bestseller, to write amillion copies that were going
to be sold, it had to be perfect, it had to be better than the
last one, all those sort ofsuperlatives.
He said.
I never would have writtenanything.
But when I just said to myself,all I got to do is sit down at
a desk every day and write a fewcrappy pages, knowing that
somewhere down the track they'dbe edited, somewhere down the
track he'd probably move bitsaround and add to them.
(06:38):
But just the concept of a fewcrappy pages and a similar
concept of two sacred hoursevery morning to me, they were
really interesting and sorelevant to us.
Third one for me was North Star.
So he spoke about you reallyhave to stand for something, and
we often talk again on thispodcast about transparency and
(07:00):
integrity and humility, whateveryour values are.
He said, in business, very fewbusinesses stand for something
and very few businesses are ableto articulate what they stand
for.
So again I thought about it.
Troy, imagine walking into alisting appointment and choosing
the right time, but somewheresaying you know, troy, I just
(07:21):
want to share with you what arethe really important values for
me, as not only a human but asalesperson as well, because I
stand for integrity, I stand fortransparency, I stand for no
surprises.
You're never going to hearanything from me that's not 100%
accurate.
This is who I am as a personand this is who I am as a
business person, whatever it is.
(07:42):
So I love the concept ofbringing your core values,
things that are really vital toyou, bringing them into the
listing lounge room, bringinginto the workplace.
I thought that was really,really interesting.
And the fourth and final one I'mgoing to offer is he talked
about I think Troy was Les Needwas the name of the coach.
(08:02):
I think they might even callthem managers in the US, but he
coached or managed the I'm goingto say LA Rams, la Rams, yeah,
yeah.
And Ryan was invited in,interestingly enough, because we
had Michael McGuire there, aswe said.
But he was invited in to talkto the LA Rams and he said he
learned, you know, hopefully heimparted some of his knowledge
(08:22):
and they learned from him.
But he said he also learnedfrom them and one of the things
he learned was their panic rules.
And apparently Coach Snead saidlook, you know, no one needs
too many great rules whenthey're 20 points ahead and when
they're playing at their best.
But you know, everyone gets toa point when they're buggered,
they've lost their rhythm,they're 20 points down at
(08:44):
halftime or whatever it is, ormaybe one of your best players
leaves and goes to yourcompetition and he said you know
, the key thing really was theyhad a set of rules and there
were different for each scenario, but if something went wrong,
if something wasn't as theyexpected, if there was an issue,
they went to their panic rules.
And these were things that theydevised to basically keep them
(09:07):
going in maximum momentum orturn the momentum around when
they were in a time of challenge.
So I immediately, troy, thoughtof okay, you have three auctions
on the weekend.
All three pass in Panic rules.
What do I do next?
Does every agent have a set of12, 14, 20 things they do to
turn it around, get it listed?
(09:28):
Okay, I've got to put a priceback on it.
I've got to get a pricereduction.
I need to get some social mediagoing.
I need to open it next Saturday.
I need to.
You know, whatever are the 10or 12 or 13 things you need to
do, a lot of agents literallypanic when they pass one in or
when one doesn't look like.
You could even have a panicrules for a property going to
(09:49):
auction this weekend that has nobuyers.
What are your panic rules?
Because that's not what youplanned.
So I thought you know thosekind of four things, a few
crappy pages, two sacred hours.
Have your North Star and bringit into business and have some
panic rules for when thingsdon't go right.
They were the four things thatstood out for me Over to you,
troy.
Tom Panos (10:09):
Yeah, troy, I'll get you to speak, but I'll just add
extend on what you just said onthat last one, so I don't have
to bring it up again when I goaround to give you mine.
Troy, do you remember when hesaid think about in advance what
can go wrong, because it's theunexpected that lands heaviest.
(10:30):
Yeah, right, and I think that'sthat's in sync with what you've
just said there, john, becauseyou won't be panicking if you
have already preempted andthere's an expectation that
these things will happen andyou've actually got a panadol
for those things.
It just gives you peace of mindknowing that, no matter what
happens, we've actually got thepanic button set up for us.
(10:54):
We know what to do next.
So and I've got to tell you inreal estate, troisy, you know
what it's like, I think vendorsthat have an agent that has not
prepared them for what's goingto actually happen, for instance
, on auction day, they're theones that have the things that
(11:14):
land heaviest on them, or thebuyer.
It's even worse for the buyer.
They've told the buyer for fourweeks you're going to buy this
home for a million.
This is what we're talkingabout under quoting.
Now You're going to buy thisproperty for a million dollars.
And then they get to theauction and they find out the
vendor's got a reserve of 1.3.
These are examples of stuffthat we don't have to have
(11:37):
problems with if we do thingsproperly and prepare Troy.
What else did you pick up thatJohn didn't cover?
Troy Malcolm (11:44):
Yeah, well, just following on as well with the
panic rules, because I thinkthat was a bit of a revelation
during the presentation and hecovered off so much content.
But there's one line that heactually said as well, talking
about the panic rules and whatthe LA Rams went through, and
I've underlined it three times,so it must've had an impact on
me during the presentation, butit was what is your job?
(12:06):
Underlined, underlined,underlined in the situation when
things go wrong.
So you don't have to solve thewhole problem, you have to focus
on what you need to do to getthings back on track.
And when you think about the LARams, one of their key
philosophies were when things gowrong, you stick with your man,
you do the job that you're paidto do.
So I thought that was a reallyimportant part of it, tom.
(12:29):
The other one that I reallyliked from him was about goal
setting.
He spoke a lot about goalsetting.
He spoke a lot about how thatcan grow and build confidence,
and ego is the enemy.
But around goal setting, Ithought one of the main things
was focus on the doing and nottalking about it.
Tom Panos (12:48):
Yeah, I remember he talked about what he spoke about
about.
Some people put down day sevenof my you know getting fit day
eight, right, he actually saysoh, I actually don't talk about
it till the end when it'saccomplished.
And I think he's done that witha book, with books.
Troy Malcolm (13:05):
He's done that a lot with his books and you know
he's delivered 12 bestsellersand he's probably got another
five or six up his sleeve thathe's going to deliver over the
next five or six years.
But he was saying that he justfocuses on the doing instead of
talking about it, becausesometimes when you talk about it
you get those people that wantto have an influence or want to
have their opinion and maybetake you off track, and so his
(13:27):
focus is around that goalsetting.
He's actually theimplementation to create the
bestseller and deliver thebestseller and then talk about
the bestseller.
And I thought that was quitegood.
John McGrath (13:37):
And then the final one that I want to- Troy, troy,
can I sorry, buddy, I just wantto add to that, because another
bit that I picked up around theyou know, I don't reveal
projects until I've completed, Ithink he said, is I don't
reveal projects until I'vealmost completed them.
He said you know, often you say, oh, you know, I started this
diet yesterday, or you know, I'mgoing to train for a Hawaii
(13:57):
marathon in two years' time,whatever.
And then he said a lot ofpeople, you know, they love the
agile.
Oh, you're great, wow,fantastic.
And he said it's like, you know,sort of getting a loan in
advance.
It's like it's getting creditbefore the activity that you're
talking about has been done.
And he said I'd rather do theactivity.
And then he said I love thecredit after I've done it, but I
(14:18):
don't want to, I don't want to,you know, sort of soak in the
adulation or congratulations andcredit when all I've all, at
this stage I've done iscontemplated doing something in
the future.
So I thought that was reallygood.
Sorry, troy, back to you.
Troy Malcolm (14:35):
No, and the final one that I wanted to talk about
was when he was talking aboutego, and he said that ego limits
your confidence to acknowledgeyour mistakes.
And I think a lot about realestate.
Sometimes we get so caught upin the price that we've pitched
to our clients that we sometimesaren't showing that
vulnerability to say, hey,listen, I think we went a little
bit off track.
I think we haven't realizedthere was another sale that was
made that's justifying why thebuyers aren't at the level we
think they're at.
And so again, I underlined thatone because I thought when he
(14:58):
said that it had a big impact onthe room and I looked around
and it wasn't a huge room butthere was probably 30 or 40
people there and a lot of peoplewere making that message as
well.
So I think showing a little bitof the vulnerability takes away
from the ego and ego cansometimes cloud our judgment
around what we think can beachieved but also what we're
saying to our clients.
Tom Panos (15:18):
Yeah, well said, troy , on that confidence and ego.
I started to dwell on itbecause I've actually come to
the and I say this because I'mthe subject and the scientist
when I'm doing one-on-ones withZooms.
I'm not going to mention anynames, but I'm actually now
convinced that you know, when wesay confidence and ego, what's
(15:42):
the difference?
I actually think there's somuch the opposite.
I actually think someone that'sgot an ego is actually not
confident.
I think deep down they're theopposite of confident and
there's this facade and thismakeup and this external thing
to make up for the lack ofconfidence and that someone that
(16:03):
is actually very confident onthe inside probably is very far
away from ego because there's noneed for it.
And I say that because I noticedwith I've got a couple of
clients that they've beenongoing.
You talk on them on Zooms andon the social side they're very
(16:23):
egotistical.
I see it.
I look at what they post, butthen when I'm talking to them
one-on-one, I can sense in thethings that they say they've got
self doubts.
And it's interesting that Ithink social media is not the
real life of a person.
Social media lives and reallives are two different things.
(16:44):
That's what I actually think.
Troy Malcolm (16:46):
Well, tom, it's funny.
We always think that withagents that we expect and
probably have a little bit ofego, it's impossible for them to
sometimes learn what they thinkthey already know.
So, like you said earlier aboutMichael Maguire, I think it
speaks volume for thatindividual.
You would say that he knows alot about the sport that he's
involved with with rugby league,but he's also a master at his
(17:06):
craft in regards to leadershipand coaching and getting the
best from people.
Yet he's a guy that actuallyturned up and wanted to sit and
listen to someone else that cangive a different point of view
and have a profound impact onwhat his coaching style is
probably going to be goingforward.
And so I think a lot of agentsprobably fall into that trap as
well.
You know they are successful,they go to all the events and
they learn great skills, andthen they develop that ego and
(17:28):
they stop attending differentthings because they think they
know it all, but it's actuallyimpossible for them to know it
all.
Tom Panos (17:39):
Isn't it incredible how things can change so quickly
.
It only felt it was the otherday that Maguire had been sacked
by the worst club in recentyears and I thought to myself
that's the end of it.
He's resurfaced.
He's done amazing things withthe New Zealand national team.
He's now the flavour of themonth with what he's done in the
(18:01):
state of origin and like.
Obviously, all of a sudden, hisattractiveness in his field is
skyrocketed because of theresults he's been getting.
And I think it says a lot toanyone that's listening to this.
If they have had a challengingperiod where they've been
working or whatever has happenedand it hasn't been their season
(18:24):
, that man, it changes.
It changes very quickly.
You don't have to make a badyear doesn't have to become a
bad year or a bad year doesn'thave to become a bad year or a
bad year doesn't have to becomea bad decade or a bad three
months doesn't have to become abad year.
Things change Exactly right.
All righty Troy John.
(18:44):
He went through to me threemain themes because he went
through three of his main booksthe Silence, which is all about
the history of people that goinward and silent to help them
clear think, and he talked aboutthat.
He talked about CEOs that don'tget digital dementia because
they're always on a screen.
(19:05):
They don't have time to thinkclearly.
He also touched a lot on Ithink John, you asked him
questions on the 48 laws ofpower.
That was really his mentor orhis first employer.
Oh, I just had a mental blank.
What's his name?
Troy?
48 power, john, are you there?
(19:26):
I think we've dropped off.
No no.
John McGrath (19:31):
I was there.
It was on mute.
Tom Panos (19:33):
Robert.
John McGrath (19:34):
Green, robert Green, robert Green.
Tom Panos (19:36):
The 48 Rules of Power , which I've started reading
again.
They're gold in itself.
They're gold in itself.
But, gentlemen, Ryan Holiday,you've got plenty of content
that you can go to.
You can also actually go andwatch his Aric talk if you've
bought the videos from last year.
(19:58):
He did 2023, not 2024.
But, troy and John, I am reallylooking.
I'm convinced that we're aboutto have a great volume in spring
and real estate agents.
We live off volume and I'venoticed the last few days it's
not as been as chilly.
We know that we're three weeksaway from that.
(20:19):
I reckon spring is the besttime when you're a real estate
agent the weather's good,there's activity, there's stuff
going on.
It's a great three, four months.
So, team, let's go out and getit.
Good to see you again, troy.
Good to see you, john.
John McGrath (20:32):
Thanks, tommy, see you, guys See you.
Tom Panos, john McGrath, troy, malcolm, million
Dollar Agent, and today you arein for a treat, a deep dive with
Ryan Holiday.
And I'm saying it, I'm puttingit on the record, I've actually
told everyone I've spoken tothis week or last week the best
two hours of education I've hadin living memory came in that
(00:27):
room there.
By the way, guys,congratulations, you've got a
beautiful office.
Had not been into your newoffice, but we had a great time.
Troy and John, I was blown awaybecause I mean, what do they say
?
When the student's ready, theteacher will appear.
I think he was just like he'sjust come at the right time, and
(00:51):
what I thought that we'd dotoday is just to go through
three or four, maybe five thingsthat we all picked up that
really resonated in the timethat we had with Ryan, john and
congratulations, john, I wasthinking about it, I was
explaining it to one of yourMcGrath people.
And and congratulations, john,I was thinking about it, I was
explaining it to one of yourMcGrath people.
And you know to be able, youknow your ability to be able to
(01:14):
get people like that in, to comeinto your organisation is
fantastic.
And he actually said to me I'mblessed, I'm blessed.
So he was very, very happy hewas there as well.
John McGrath (01:24):
No thanks, thanks, tommy.
It's funny.
Two observations, that, or justlittle side notes before we
start.
So I think today we're going tounpack what each of the three
of us sort of took away.
First thing was, of all thepeople I know, I agree with you,
he is the world-classmodern-day philosopher genius.
(01:44):
I love him and I think he'sjust incredible.
But he's also one of the mosthumble people I've met, and the
three of us being on thispodcast regularly, all the time,
consistently that in ourindustry it's such a pity that
people get a little bit ofsuccess and they start acting
like they're God's gift to theplanet.
Little bit of success and theystart acting like they're God's
(02:07):
gift to the planet.
He was just another reminderthat real, true success embodies
humility, which I think isactually one of the Stoic
philosophies as well.
That's number one.
Number two is I was speaking theday before actually on the
Friday before the Monday, so acouple of days before to Michael
Maguire.
I guess most rugby leaguefollowers would know him to be
(02:27):
the ex-coach of South Sydney andmore recently the coach of the
New South Wales team that wonthe State of Origin, and I was
just chatting to him about stuff.
And I said to him look, youprobably wouldn't be interested,
but I've got this guy coming onMonday.
And I said you know, this iswhat he talks about, if you'd
like to come and be a you knowparticipant.
And he said I will be there,like I'll be the first person
(02:50):
there, which, by the way, he was.
And it's interesting that, again, the true successful people
never stop learning.
So here's a guy who's at theheight of his success.
You know, just had thehistorical win in the tough,
probably the toughest rugbyleague battle in the world, you
know, new South Wales versusQueensland, and he was the first
(03:10):
person to the event.
He didn't need to be askedtwice.
He said I don't know him, I'lltake your word, it sounds
fascinating, I'll be there, justlet me know what time and when.
So again, humility and neverstop learning.
They were just two things fromtwo great people, and I know you
sat next to and chatted forquite a while with Michael
McGuire, tom, and I'm sure you'dagree with me that he's just a
(03:34):
humble, just a lovely guy too.
Tom Panos (03:36):
I don't know, I was a bit starstruck I mean, it's not
like he's a movie star, but thefact that I've been a West
Tiger supporter and I actuallydid like him and I'd watch the
Tales of Tiger Town, which wasvery much centred on him, and
seeing his personality.
But, john, if you remember,towards the end I actually said
(03:57):
to Mag I said, was this relevantfor you?
And he just looked up and hesaid that's my life, this is my
life, that's right, I was there.
John McGrath (04:10):
I remember you were there Successfully.
Sometimes they're in theclassroom listening to people
like Ryan and sometimes they'reobserving people like Ryan or
Michael McGuire and just peoplein everyday life.
But I know today we're going tofocus on what were the key
things that we took out of itand I'll tell you what the hard
bit for me is going to be tryingto whittle it down to a small
(04:32):
few.
But I'm going to open thebatting.
I used to like opening thebatting Trosie as a youngster,
before playing cricket.
I used to like getting outthere.
So a couple of things that Igot out of it.
He so a couple of things that Igot out of it.
He talked about James Clear,who also spoke at ARIC a few
years ago Atomic Habits and hesaid you know one of the things
(04:52):
from meeting and interviewingJames Clear was he said the
greatest thing for him was hehad two sacred hours in the
morning to write and he saidnothing would interrupt them no
social media, no appointments,no meetings.
And so again, I was justimmediately thinking about that,
tommy, that again, if agentshad two sacred hours every
(05:13):
morning where nothing everinterrupted it and they
prospected, they rang pastclients.
They rang current vendors.
They rang hot buyers.
They rang people that wererelevant.
Where have recent sales takenplace?
Whatever is your prospectingplan, expired listings and so
forth, two sacred hours a daywould be the only thing you
(05:34):
would need to do to actually endup being a world-class agent.
That would be about all.
If you just did that every dayand you had a modicum of talent,
that would be enough to get youthere.
So that was.
I really loved that idea.
And the second one that I got,which I loved, which was very
similar.
He talked about because he'swritten I think it's 13
(05:55):
best-selling books and I thinkthey've each averaged about a
million in terms of about amillion sales each.
And he talked about the factthat every day he just wrote a
few crappy pages was his kind ofwording and it's interesting
but important the wording thathe had behind it a few crappy
pages.
He said look, if I'd have setout every time I wrote a book to
(06:16):
write a bestseller, to write amillion copies that were going
to be sold, it had to be perfect, it had to be better than the
last one, all those sort ofsuperlatives.
He said.
I never would have writtenanything.
But when I just said to myself,all I got to do is sit down at
a desk every day and write a fewcrappy pages, knowing that
somewhere down the track they'dbe edited, somewhere down the
track he'd probably move bitsaround and add to them.
(06:38):
But just the concept of a fewcrappy pages and a similar
concept of two sacred hoursevery morning to me, they were
really interesting and sorelevant to us.
Third one for me was North Star.
So he spoke about you reallyhave to stand for something, and
we often talk again on thispodcast about transparency and
(07:00):
integrity and humility, whateveryour values are.
He said, in business, very fewbusinesses stand for something
and very few businesses are ableto articulate what they stand
for.
So again I thought about it.
Troy, imagine walking into alisting appointment and choosing
the right time, but somewheresaying you know, troy, I just
(07:21):
want to share with you what arethe really important values for
me, as not only a human but asalesperson as well, because I
stand for integrity, I stand fortransparency, I stand for no
surprises.
You're never going to hearanything from me that's not 100%
accurate.
This is who I am as a personand this is who I am as a
business person, whatever it is.
(07:42):
So I love the concept ofbringing your core values,
things that are really vital toyou, bringing them into the
listing lounge room, bringinginto the workplace.
I thought that was really,really interesting.
And the fourth and final one I'mgoing to offer is he talked
about I think Troy was Les Needwas the name of the coach.
(08:02):
I think they might even callthem managers in the US, but he
coached or managed the I'm goingto say LA Rams, la Rams, yeah,
yeah.
And Ryan was invited in,interestingly enough, because we
had Michael McGuire there, aswe said.
But he was invited in to talkto the LA Rams and he said he
learned, you know, hopefully heimparted some of his knowledge
(08:22):
and they learned from him.
But he said he also learnedfrom them and one of the things
he learned was their panic rules.
And apparently Coach Snead saidlook, you know, no one needs
too many great rules whenthey're 20 points ahead and when
they're playing at their best.
But you know, everyone gets toa point when they're buggered,
they've lost their rhythm,they're 20 points down at
(08:44):
halftime or whatever it is, ormaybe one of your best players
leaves and goes to yourcompetition and he said you know
, the key thing really was theyhad a set of rules and there
were different for each scenario, but if something went wrong,
if something wasn't as theyexpected, if there was an issue,
they went to their panic rules.
And these were things that theydevised to basically keep them
(09:07):
going in maximum momentum orturn the momentum around when
they were in a time of challenge.
So I immediately, troy, thoughtof okay, you have three auctions
on the weekend.
All three pass in Panic rules.
What do I do next?
Does every agent have a set of12, 14, 20 things they do to
turn it around, get it listed?
(09:28):
Okay, I've got to put a priceback on it.
I've got to get a pricereduction.
I need to get some social mediagoing.
I need to open it next Saturday.
I need to.
You know, whatever are the 10or 12 or 13 things you need to
do, a lot of agents literallypanic when they pass one in or
when one doesn't look like.
You could even have a panicrules for a property going to
(09:49):
auction this weekend that has nobuyers.
What are your panic rules?
Because that's not what youplanned.
So I thought you know thosekind of four things, a few
crappy pages, two sacred hours.
Have your North Star and bringit into business and have some
panic rules for when thingsdon't go right.
They were the four things thatstood out for me Over to you,
troy.
Tom Panos (10:09):
Yeah, troy, I'll get you to speak, but I'll just add
extend on what you just said onthat last one, so I don't have
to bring it up again when I goaround to give you mine.
Troy, do you remember when hesaid think about in advance what
can go wrong, because it's theunexpected that lands heaviest.
(10:30):
Yeah, right, and I think that'sthat's in sync with what you've
just said there, john, becauseyou won't be panicking if you
have already preempted andthere's an expectation that
these things will happen andyou've actually got a panadol
for those things.
It just gives you peace of mindknowing that, no matter what
happens, we've actually got thepanic button set up for us.
(10:54):
We know what to do next.
So and I've got to tell you inreal estate, troisy, you know
what it's like, I think vendorsthat have an agent that has not
prepared them for what's goingto actually happen, for instance
, on auction day, they're theones that have the things that
(11:14):
land heaviest on them, or thebuyer.
It's even worse for the buyer.
They've told the buyer for fourweeks you're going to buy this
home for a million.
This is what we're talkingabout under quoting.
Now You're going to buy thisproperty for a million dollars.
And then they get to theauction and they find out the
vendor's got a reserve of 1.3.
These are examples of stuffthat we don't have to have
(11:37):
problems with if we do thingsproperly and prepare Troy.
What else did you pick up thatJohn didn't cover?
Troy Malcolm (11:44):
Yeah, well, just following on as well with the
panic rules, because I thinkthat was a bit of a revelation
during the presentation and hecovered off so much content.
But there's one line that heactually said as well, talking
about the panic rules and whatthe LA Rams went through, and
I've underlined it three times,so it must've had an impact on
me during the presentation, butit was what is your job?
(12:06):
Underlined, underlined,underlined in the situation when
things go wrong.
So you don't have to solve thewhole problem, you have to focus
on what you need to do to getthings back on track.
And when you think about the LARams, one of their key
philosophies were when things gowrong, you stick with your man,
you do the job that you're paidto do.
So I thought that was a reallyimportant part of it, tom.
(12:29):
The other one that I reallyliked from him was about goal
setting.
He spoke a lot about goalsetting.
He spoke a lot about how thatcan grow and build confidence,
and ego is the enemy.
But around goal setting, Ithought one of the main things
was focus on the doing and nottalking about it.
Tom Panos (12:48):
Yeah, I remember he talked about what he spoke about
about.
Some people put down day sevenof my you know getting fit day
eight, right, he actually saysoh, I actually don't talk about
it till the end when it'saccomplished.
And I think he's done that witha book, with books.
Troy Malcolm (13:05):
He's done that a lot with his books and you know
he's delivered 12 bestsellersand he's probably got another
five or six up his sleeve thathe's going to deliver over the
next five or six years.
But he was saying that he justfocuses on the doing instead of
talking about it, becausesometimes when you talk about it
you get those people that wantto have an influence or want to
have their opinion and maybetake you off track, and so his
(13:27):
focus is around that goalsetting.
He's actually theimplementation to create the
bestseller and deliver thebestseller and then talk about
the bestseller.
And I thought that was quitegood.
John McGrath (13:37):
And then the final one that I want to- Troy, troy,
can I sorry, buddy, I just wantto add to that, because another
bit that I picked up around theyou know, I don't reveal
projects until I've completed, Ithink he said, is I don't
reveal projects until I'vealmost completed them.
He said you know, often you say, oh, you know, I started this
diet yesterday, or you know, I'mgoing to train for a Hawaii
(13:57):
marathon in two years' time,whatever.
And then he said a lot ofpeople, you know, they love the
agile.
Oh, you're great, wow,fantastic.
And he said it's like, you know,sort of getting a loan in
advance.
It's like it's getting creditbefore the activity that you're
talking about has been done.
And he said I'd rather do theactivity.
And then he said I love thecredit after I've done it, but I
(14:18):
don't want to, I don't want to,you know, sort of soak in the
adulation or congratulations andcredit when all I've all, at
this stage I've done iscontemplated doing something in
the future.
So I thought that was reallygood.
Sorry, troy, back to you.
Troy Malcolm (14:35):
No, and the final one that I wanted to talk about
was when he was talking aboutego, and he said that ego limits
your confidence to acknowledgeyour mistakes.
And I think a lot about realestate.
Sometimes we get so caught upin the price that we've pitched
to our clients that we sometimesaren't showing that
vulnerability to say, hey,listen, I think we went a little
bit off track.
I think we haven't realizedthere was another sale that was
made that's justifying why thebuyers aren't at the level we
think they're at.
And so again, I underlined thatone because I thought when he
(14:58):
said that it had a big impact onthe room and I looked around
and it wasn't a huge room butthere was probably 30 or 40
people there and a lot of peoplewere making that message as
well.
So I think showing a little bitof the vulnerability takes away
from the ego and ego cansometimes cloud our judgment
around what we think can beachieved but also what we're
saying to our clients.
Tom Panos (15:18):
Yeah, well said, troy , on that confidence and ego.
I started to dwell on itbecause I've actually come to
the and I say this because I'mthe subject and the scientist
when I'm doing one-on-ones withZooms.
I'm not going to mention anynames, but I'm actually now
convinced that you know, when wesay confidence and ego, what's
(15:42):
the difference?
I actually think there's somuch the opposite.
I actually think someone that'sgot an ego is actually not
confident.
I think deep down they're theopposite of confident and
there's this facade and thismakeup and this external thing
to make up for the lack ofconfidence and that someone that
(16:03):
is actually very confident onthe inside probably is very far
away from ego because there's noneed for it.
And I say that because I noticedwith I've got a couple of
clients that they've beenongoing.
You talk on them on Zooms andon the social side they're very
(16:23):
egotistical.
I see it.
I look at what they post, butthen when I'm talking to them
one-on-one, I can sense in thethings that they say they've got
self doubts.
And it's interesting that Ithink social media is not the
real life of a person.
Social media lives and reallives are two different things.
(16:44):
That's what I actually think.
Troy Malcolm (16:46):
Well, tom, it's funny.
We always think that withagents that we expect and
probably have a little bit ofego, it's impossible for them to
sometimes learn what they thinkthey already know.
So, like you said earlier aboutMichael Maguire, I think it
speaks volume for thatindividual.
You would say that he knows alot about the sport that he's
involved with with rugby league,but he's also a master at his
(17:06):
craft in regards to leadershipand coaching and getting the
best from people.
Yet he's a guy that actuallyturned up and wanted to sit and
listen to someone else that cangive a different point of view
and have a profound impact onwhat his coaching style is
probably going to be goingforward.
And so I think a lot of agentsprobably fall into that trap as
well.
You know they are successful,they go to all the events and
they learn great skills, andthen they develop that ego and
(17:28):
they stop attending differentthings because they think they
know it all, but it's actuallyimpossible for them to know it
all.
Tom Panos (17:39):
Isn't it incredible how things can change so quickly
.
It only felt it was the otherday that Maguire had been sacked
by the worst club in recentyears and I thought to myself
that's the end of it.
He's resurfaced.
He's done amazing things withthe New Zealand national team.
He's now the flavour of themonth with what he's done in the
(18:01):
state of origin and like.
Obviously, all of a sudden, hisattractiveness in his field is
skyrocketed because of theresults he's been getting.
And I think it says a lot toanyone that's listening to this.
If they have had a challengingperiod where they've been
working or whatever has happenedand it hasn't been their season
(18:24):
, that man, it changes.
It changes very quickly.
You don't have to make a badyear doesn't have to become a
bad year or a bad year doesn'thave to become a bad year or a
bad year doesn't have to becomea bad decade or a bad three
months doesn't have to become abad year.
Things change Exactly right.
All righty Troy John.
(18:44):
He went through to me threemain themes because he went
through three of his main booksthe Silence, which is all about
the history of people that goinward and silent to help them
clear think, and he talked aboutthat.
He talked about CEOs that don'tget digital dementia because
they're always on a screen.
(19:05):
They don't have time to thinkclearly.
He also touched a lot on Ithink John, you asked him
questions on the 48 laws ofpower.
That was really his mentor orhis first employer.
Oh, I just had a mental blank.
What's his name?
Troy?
48 power, john, are you there?
(19:26):
I think we've dropped off.
No no.
John McGrath (19:31):
I was there.
It was on mute.
Tom Panos (19:33):
Robert.
John McGrath (19:34):
Green, robert Green, robert Green.
Tom Panos (19:36):
The 48 Rules of Power , which I've started reading
again.
They're gold in itself.
They're gold in itself.
But, gentlemen, Ryan Holiday,you've got plenty of content
that you can go to.
You can also actually go andwatch his Aric talk if you've
bought the videos from last year.
(19:58):
He did 2023, not 2024.
But, troy and John, I am reallylooking.
I'm convinced that we're aboutto have a great volume in spring
and real estate agents.
We live off volume and I'venoticed the last few days it's
not as been as chilly.
We know that we're three weeksaway from that.
(20:19):
I reckon spring is the besttime when you're a real estate
agent the weather's good,there's activity, there's stuff
going on.
It's a great three, four months.
So, team, let's go out and getit.
Good to see you again, troy.
Good to see you, john.
John McGrath (20:32):
Thanks, tommy, see you, guys See you.
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