June 4, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode, the trio unpack the highlights of AREC 2025, noting the electric atmosphere and standout sessions, particularly Will Guidara’s keynote on meaningful engagement.
They then shift focus to social media, examining the fine line between genuine personal branding and ego-driven content. The trio critique common trends on platforms like Instagram and TikTok and offers practical tips for agents to create authentic, value-driven content.
The episode wraps up with a discussion on defending real estate fees and sustaining a value-based approach in a competitive market.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Panos (00:02):
Tom Panos, john McGrath, troy Malcolm.
Another week of Million DollarAgent the podcast post-Derek.
How are you, gentlemen?
John McGrath (00:12):
Good, Tommy, You're looking like a polar bear
there.
The audience can't see you, butI can, we can.
Yeah, You're all rugged up thewinter.
I reckon started snowingsomewhere near Sydney, for sure.
Troy Malcolm (00:24):
It is freezing today, absolutely freezing, I
love it.
Tom Panos (00:28):
I actually like I sleep a lot better in the winter
, cole, there's no questionabout it.
I sleep a lot better in thewinter months and I just think,
like when I was in Denmark withMadeline, where it's like close,
it's zero or minus degrees,they, they, they seem to do it
(00:49):
well.
They're just really fast atlayering their clothes, they,
they, they get used to it.
It's all it's all about, youknow, putting on the right
layers.
But if anyone could see meright now I've got one.
Everyone collects sloppy joesfrom people, right?
This has been given to me bysomeone on some podcast.
I get sloppy joes from people,right, this has been given to me
by someone on some podcast.
I get sloppy joes fromcampaignagentrealestatecom.
But, guys, you know, it's beenover a week since ARIC and I
(01:16):
have to say we say it every yearI think that was close to the
perfect conference, and I don'tsay it myself, I'm relaying what
has been said to me by thosethat went to it and those that
didn't go to it had people thattold them this time you missed
(01:36):
out, it was special.
There was a buzz that washappening the whole week.
So I was on the Gold Coast andBrisbane that whole week.
I still had people stopping mein the street in Surfers and
Broad Beach that Thursday,friday, saying man, how could it
(01:57):
be possible that everyone wasso good at the one time?
Troy Malcolm (02:02):
Yeah, I agree.
Sorry, troy, I was just goingto say I was in the expo most of
the time during the podcastrecordings for the ARIC podcast
and Tom.
I think that sums up exactlythe right word for the
conference a buzz.
Everyone was in there and youcould tell not only by the
conversations that they werehaving just hanging around the
(02:23):
expo but also how eager theywere to get back into the main
arena and to get to the propertymanagement breakout and Propik
did an auditorium breakout inthe expo as well and just the
amount of people that werereally enjoying that was really
positive.
So the buzz was very high andthe energy was really high and
it was great to see so manyfamiliar faces that have come
(02:43):
back to Eric year and year timeafter time yeah, and it was.
Tom Panos (02:49):
It'll always go down as the conference that John
McGrath entered the status ofgenius interviewing skills of
Barbara Walters.
Mate, I can't, I can't stop it.
Barbara Walters, don't be shyabout it, you're outstanding,
because let's be.
I mean, if you go off and saywhat was the best session, and I
(03:13):
ask everyone, like I have myown little votes Everyone's
saying Will Godera, and I saidto you offline, john, that it's
remarkable how a Q&A that hasbeen done virtually ends up
becoming what was talked aboutby everyone as the best session.
On that point, can we just likeJohn and Troy, we're not going
(03:35):
to use this is not going to bean Aric summary.
We did do the Hangover Cure andmost people have got access to
the AI summarised notes of theconference.
But when you were interviewingWill online, what are the top
one or two things that came outof it that you think is super
relevant to our real estateindustry?
John McGrath (03:57):
Well, you've got to go listen to the hot dog
story.
I think that's a legendary one.
If you Google Will Godera hotdog story, that's a classic
about creating a moment.
I thought that's a legendaryone.
If you Google Will Gadara hotdog story, that's a classic
about creating a moment.
I thought that wasextraordinary.
He actually I love the way hedived into the real estate
specific and he talked about howagents are very cookie
(04:18):
cutter-ish.
And he talked about, you know,working with an agent for six
months.
Then you get a bottle ofsparkling champagne and nothing
wrong with it, but you know,it's kind of fairly predictable.
And he said what if my wife,who's a yoga fan, who was
looking for a sunny spot to doyoga, if we had arrived at our
new apartment and there was abeautiful yoga mat, a little
personalized letter and a candlesaying I hope this becomes your
(04:39):
new sunny yoga spot?
So little things that just makebig differences.
And that's really what he builtthe world's best restaurant on.
I mean, there's millions ofrestaurants, or certainly
hundreds of thousands, that havegood food, good service, good
decor.
But he specialized in the onepercenters.
I reckon you know from thatperspective, that's what he had
(05:00):
some great stories.
Tom Panos (05:02):
Okay.
So Troy, john, two topics we'rejust going to sort of just
break up and talk about.
And you know we're not going tosit there and sort of say these
are the do's and these are thedon'ts.
But this whole real estatesocial media space, right at the
one end of the extreme you'vegot agents who you know
(05:26):
celebrity, podcast success,affluence.
On the other extreme you've gotsome people that are doing
absolutely nothing right, beinginvisible.
So there's this thing likewhat's the right thing, what's
the right frequency, what's thesort of stuff?
Are people turning people offwith their social media?
(05:47):
Are they posting too much orare they posting not enough?
I look at a lot of real estateagents' social media.
I sit from afar and look atthem, and I look at them on
Insta, I look at them on TikTok.
I don't seem to spend too muchtime on Facebook or LinkedIn
they're the two that I'm on andI seem to be on TikTok a lot
(06:08):
more.
I consume content better onTikTok for some reason.
But I do look at Insta becauseInsta is where the community is
TikTok.
You know, there's a lot ofpeople that are people that
don't have a relationship, butI'm interested in the topic.
John McGrath (06:22):
Yeah, look, you've got to be engaged, involved,
and I think you've got to beusing it both for selling
property as well as for personalbranding.
But the problem is, tommy, Ithink a lot of people all of a
sudden they've got a rush ofadrenaline, they realise they've
got their own little TV channel.
Their egos some of them, theiregos are pretty high and they
(06:48):
just turn it into a brag sessionand a know-it-all session.
And I think you know ReeseWitherspoon said it at ARIC a
few years ago and she said youknow, you've got to think of the
person who's receiving themessage, the note or the
Instagram post.
What do you want them to feel?
How do you want them to feelwhen they watch it?
And I think that's a real keyto success, whereas a lot of
(07:09):
agents see it as the opportunityto tell everyone how good they
are, and I think that's a turnoff.
So I think frequency is fine.
If you've got great content,that's without ego.
You know Matt's sign way too.
So are you, tom.
You know you guys are greatexamples because you'll frequent
posters I don't know howregularly, but daily, I would
imagine most of you and I can'twait to see Matt, whether he's
(07:31):
on TikTok or Instagram.
I just think his content'sbrilliant, as is yours.
But there are some other peopleagain that the minute I see my
scroll past them because I knowit's just going to be another
ego show and telling me how manyproperties they've sold this
month and how clever they areand all this sort of stuff.
So you've got to be sellingproperty.
I know REA and domain they'reso important parts of the
(07:56):
marketing mix.
But I reckon nowadays, socialmedia, if you're not using it
proactively to target buyers, Ithink you're missing a big
portion of the market.
So, yeah, I think you've got tobe using it both for personal
branding.
I mean, troy, you're a bit moreof an expert on social media
than me, but that's kind of myfirst level view.
Troy Malcolm (08:19):
Yeah, I agree, john, tom and John, I reckon
it's mainly down to adding value.
Um, tom and John, I reckon it'smainly down to adding value.
If you're not providing sometype of insight that's going to
help the consumer, the watcher,the person looking at the
content, don't post it.
You know there's there's amillion different ways to
deliver that message.
But if you do it like you weresaying, john, being authentic
(08:39):
and providing value, and youconstantly think how is this
going to help someone make adecision, whether it's the
decision to list and sell theirhome now, if it's the decision
to list their property for lease, if it's the decision to go and
buy a property, you've reallygot to position it and, john,
we've got a number of agentsthat do it really authentically
and well out there in the market.
But, yeah, I agree, there is afine line between delivering the
(09:03):
message and then going intothat ego space where you're
pulling up in the Lamborghiniand showing how many soldiers
are on the signboard.
I just don't think that thatresonates with people anymore.
I think there was a time andplace where people thought that
was cool, but most of the greatagents now have moved past that.
John McGrath (09:19):
It does not resonate, tom, but people hate
it.
Imagine the poor average personout there and that's mostly
customers.
When I say average, just normalJoe Blow, they're out there,
they're working hard, they'retaking a hundred grand a year
and maybe their partners areearning the same amount of money
.
And then an agent swans on andsays I've done six deals this
week and I've made $300,000.
(09:41):
People actually hate it.
They hate agents because mostagents don't tell the truth.
And then you get some pratonline just telling you how much
money he or she's made and Ijust think you know it's just
poor form.
Who likes it?
You know some of the young,testosterone-driven aspiring
agents.
They say oh, you know, isn't hegreat, isn't she great?
But you know, I really thinkit's a very strange approach.
(10:06):
So, humility, you Give me someinformation, make it interesting
, be creative.
I think that's the kind ofstarting point.
Tom Panos (10:18):
Yeah, what I was going to say is the irony of it
all is, in this country we knowthat housing is a big issue.
Like the average person whetheryou're a tenant or whether
you're a homeowner or whetheryou're a buyer, trying to get
into the market we know howchallenging it is and it's
(10:38):
ironic that probably the biggestthing that affects people's
lives is the thing that realestate agents sort of end up,
you know, talking about luxury,self-promotion, cars, watches,
you know all that stuff, in anenvironment where the average
(10:59):
person is actually in a lot ofpain because of either their
mortgages, the rent that they'repaying, or struggling to get
into the market.
As you said, it turns people off, particularly in tough economic
climates that we're in, and Ijust think that the majority and
the worst part about it Iactually think, is that when you
(11:22):
look at some of these posts,you actually think it's actually
been posted with the view thatanother agent's going to watch
it.
It's not even educational tothe consumer.
It's like, hey, like half thestuff that you see posted online
on social media the averageconsumer might not even
understand what it is, you know,sold in four days, one meal,
(11:46):
gci month.
They don't even understand thatstuff.
It's like there's thisecosystem of real estate agents
that are sort of trying tooutbrag each other, and I think
the opportunity is golden forthe small group of people that
actually say I am different, Iam like you, I'm a human being
(12:06):
and my job is in real estate.
I know that you needinformation that's going to help
you, so that's what I'm goingto be posting.
John McGrath (12:15):
Well, tommy, turn it around and I can't even think
of any industry that peoplehate probably as much as our
industry to a degree.
But just think of an industryyou hate, or someone or a
certain sector where they alwayspiss you off because they under
deliver or over promise orwhatever.
And then imagine them jumpingon Instagram and saying how much
money they've made this month.
So if you turn it around, yourealize this is just absurd.
(12:38):
What agents do and I'm notsaying they hate every agent,
because there are some good ones, and most of them listen to
this podcast because they'reeducating themselves and the
maniacs probably don't like usbecause we're always bashing
them too Just saying it's justcrazy.
But, yeah, I think it's justcrazy.
But, um, yeah, I think it'sreally.
Yeah, you've got to be in it.
Um, you know, video?
(12:58):
Um, property video, drone shots, um, valuable stuff again, even
for property stuff, you've gotto be careful you don't try and
become the star of the show.
You know this is not milliondollar listing or lux listings.
This is about a property thatyou're promoting on behalf of a
client.
How can you best showcase thisproperty so it will appeal to
(13:19):
most people?
And, um, yeah, it's generallynot, you know, having you on 50
of the shots focused on you andseeing you stroll around the
property, you know you.
You want to be able to see therooms and the views and how the
rooms connect with each other inthe front of the property, in
the rear, rear of the property,and so make sure it's about the
property.
So I think it's a great giftfor agents to be able to promote
(13:42):
themselves in properties, butdo it the right way.
Troy Malcolm (13:45):
Yeah, it's never been easier to actually get the
message out there as well.
Like everyone has an iPhone, togo and get, tom, as you know,
some small microphones thatattach to you as a lapel and get
a gimbal and walk through aproperty and just talk about it.
It's never been easier to postthat content online with
authenticity.
So I feel like those thatembrace it are definitely
(14:06):
catering to both sides of themarket and they're going to do
really well.
They're going to continue to dowell.
Touche, yeah.
Tom Panos (14:18):
I just you know what I'm going to.
I think maybe in one of thenext few podcasts I'm going to
actually I wouldn't.
I'm not in a position to do itnow because you actually even
asked me.
You know who are the peoplethat are doing amazing real
estate social media content.
I can't even think of that many.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to actually start
collating a list to actuallymaybe send some of our listeners
and say, hey, this is the sortof content.
(14:41):
But I can tell you there's oneagent who told me what they do
is that every month they get thenewsletter from their local
council.
They just get it online andthey just know that their
community is probably not goingto be sort of going onto the
council website.
So they just go off and say,hey, I'm just going to give you
a five minute wrap on whathappened in our town in the
(15:03):
month of May, and he just prettymuch just reads off the
council's blog that they've gotsome PR person, that's done and
it's useful information, right.
So yeah, anyway.
So out of curiosity, troy, whenyou're consuming content do you
consume?
Are you mainly on Instagram?
Troy Malcolm (15:26):
Yeah, instagram is probably I kind of more lean
into Instagram more than anyother platform, but I have
started.
There's a lot more agents nowon TikTok, I've got to be honest
, and there's a lot more contentbeing pushed out to places like
LinkedIn as well, likeLinkedIn's got a bit of a
resurgence at the moment, tomand John.
So those three platformsFacebook, everyone's kind of
fallen away from.
I don't go onto that platformvery often, if at all, but
(15:49):
between Instagram, tiktok andLinkedIn, that's where I'm
spending the majority of my time.
And then, if it's longer formcontent, it's definitely
something like a YouTube, whichis video platforms.
Tom Panos (15:59):
I'm changing John and Troy.
I'm changing from probably fromJuly onwards.
It's going to mean more effort.
I'm not putting the samecontent on Instagram and TikTok
because I found that, tiktok,you've got to laugh at yourself.
Tiktok, you've got to laugh atyourself.
Tiktok, you've got to be alittle bit quirky.
I can go off and put you knowlike a bit of you know training
(16:22):
content on Instagram becauseyou've got your community there
right and they're your regulars.
But you know and we've got toaccept that the real estate
industry is not that well likedout there in the community.
So I find I hear what you'resaying.
John McGrath (16:39):
I don't 100% agree because I was watching today.
I spoke about it with Troy onour webinar this morning.
Alex Hermosi, you've seen him,yep, yep, great content.
And I think I see him on TikTokmost because that's probably
the platform I look at most.
Never funny, never crazy, buthe delivers stuff and I think he
edits it right.
(17:00):
So you've only got to watch 15seconds, 30 seconds, and you get
a piece of gold.
And I think there aredefinitely I know what you're
saying, but I think there aresome people that have mastered
the TikTok space who aredelivering good coaching
commentary.
That's really useful, reallyuseful.
But see, you've got the benefitthat you've got sort of two
(17:23):
gears and you know you've got areally serious set of messages
you often send out and you'veoften got some you know sort of
you know, not crazy, but youknow you're sort of challenging
people more and you have a bitof fun and a bit of laugh with
it.
But I think, yeah, for someonelike Homozy, who's not a funny
guy, he certainly doesn'tpromote that in the way he
presents himself.
(17:44):
And TikTok has been renowned,troy, as a kind of entertainment
space.
Really I think TikTok now is agreat educational space as well.
I probably get more.
You know my answer to thatquestion, tom.
I get most of my content fromTikTok, I'd say second Instagram
.
I don't look at LinkedIn a lot.
(18:04):
I definitely look at YouTube alot and YouTube Shorts, which is
kind of their version of TikTok, and when I'm really looking
for some serious information, ifthere's a topic that's going on
or a debate or something Trumpor Tariff, something like that I
would tend to go to X or theold Twitter.
I find that there's some reallysmart people and you get their
(18:26):
insights and it helps youformulate your own opinion.
But I reckon TikTok's movedfrom a kids' entertainment space
to now a much broader platformwhere someone, an expert in real
estate, could and I see peopledo it quite a lot- yeah,
(18:46):
tiktok's become for me where Ilike, even getting information
on sport and what's going on inthe world and economy.
Tom Panos (18:55):
I don't seem to be looking at sports shows or
looking at news, because I justknow that the recency of TikTok
it's there within a couple ofhours.
Listen, you know, the otherthing that we were going to talk
about today is fees.
You know the other thing thatwe were going to talk about
today is fees.
Yeah, I actually went to.
I was doing some training todaywith the Diamond Tee's group
(19:16):
out there and even out therewhere prices you know Penrith,
st Mary's, they're a lot lowerFees.
I mean in some marketplaces I'mreally surprised at how low
people go, but you know it is,it is life, um, and I also, and
(19:40):
I also accept that you can turnaround and there are certain
vendors that are sticker shockervendors that will turn around
and say I get everything thatyou've said, but I only want to
pay that.
What you hearing on fees in thegroup and John Troy, your views
on this race to the bottom, weused to like.
I mean there was a time, john,when you and I were selling real
estate, if you can recall, newSouth Wales 3.1% to the first
(20:05):
100, and then 2% thereafter.
John McGrath (20:07):
I still remember the actual fee and I think
Queensland, they kind of stickpretty much to a similar script
and fees up there, in terms ofpercentage-wise, are generally
higher.
Look, I mean, obviously, whatwe should say before this is
everyone's got to make their owndecision on fees.
We're not trying to collude,we'll pump their prices up.
(20:28):
I mean, agents are like anyother service.
There are better ones, averageones and worse ones.
My view is, if you're one ofthe best, it only makes sense
that you should be moreexpensive than someone who's
less successful, less competent,not as good a negotiator.
I mean, why would a world-classnegotiator, an agent working
(20:49):
under an amazing brand with aterrific team supporting them,
charge the same as some personthat finished TAFE, you know,
six months ago and they soldthree properties?
So I think you've got to assesswhere you're at in the market
and where you see the value youbring and the value you put on
yourself.
I mean, the price you charge isthe way you tell the market,
where you see the value you'rebringing to the process or to
(21:11):
the negotiation.
So I think you know you've gotto make your own decision on it.
I think people discount far tooreadily.
I think that a lot of vendors,the fee is actually not that
important.
It's a common and obviousquestion.
You know what would you do itfor?
How low would you?
You know what would younegotiate down to that's.
Every vendor is going to askyou a version of that question.
(21:33):
But if you say you know that'smy fee, two, three, whatever
your percentage is, and youstick to it, I think you'd be
surprised how many people sayokay, where do I sign?
I think people respect an agentthat has strength in their
position on fees and if you'rehalf a percent or even a percent
(21:53):
more than someone else and youbring a lot more value to the
table, it shouldn't be that hardto justify it.
So, having said that, I thinkit's also a little bit price
related.
I mean, a million dollars at 2%is 20 grand and 10 million is
200 grand.
And a vendor will probablyargue well, it's no harder or
(22:14):
easier to sell a 10 million thana million.
So you'll probably find thehigh and since many prices in
some of the big cities and theregionals have gone crazy,
there's quite a few vendors thatsay hang on, I can't see why I
should be paying you $500,000for your fee.
So I think prices have risen.
People are under some sort ofpressure.
(22:36):
Whilst I don't think fees are areason people do or don't
choose you, there probably is alimit depending on the price
range you're at.
Troy Malcolm (22:44):
Troy, I think.
John, you mentioned it justbefore.
You spoke about value and again, if you can't articulate your
value in the lounge room to yourclient, they will decide on the
fee that you charge.
The very best that I've seen inthe industry they go in with a
plan, they have a strategy andthey have proven case studies
that if they follow that planand execute that, then they get
(23:06):
the premium result.
That then they get the premiumresult.
You're right, not many peopleselect people on the fee they
charge.
They actually take that as onelayer of many layers to deciding
which is the right agent forthem, and the objections that
normally come in fees is one ofthem, but it's not the main one.
Why people do or don't selectan agent depending on-.
John McGrath (23:26):
So if you're a standout as an agent and you'll
call it 3% which in Queenslandis certainly not uncommon, and
someone's just left, and theywere pretty mediocre, with no
creativity, no innovation, notrack record, and they were 2% I
can't see anyone going to savethe 1%.
Having said that, if you alllook the same and if no one is a
(23:46):
standout and if no one presentstheir case as to why choose
them with incredible gusto andgreat facts and compelling well,
then they will take the 1%.
If everyone looks the same,people take the cheapest.
But I do think you've got toremember that the value you
place on yourself in a lot ofvendors' minds is you know the
(24:08):
value that you know.
You go into a shop right andyou're looking at buying a
product and there's six of themon the shelf from different
suppliers.
You see the one and they willlook fairly similar, maybe
slightly different.
The one that's most expensive.
Most people will assume it'sthe better quality.
It's just commonplace.
Not everyone's going to buythat one, but most people would
(24:28):
assume that's the best.
Well, this is not a product.
This is a service that can makea big difference to the net you
bring into your bank account atthe end of the transaction.
So, yeah, I think so, but, as Isaid, we're not here to guide
you on what you should orshouldn't charge.
But I think you should havepride in your service and you
think you should place a valueon yourself that reflects the
(24:49):
value you believe you bring tothe equation, and I don't think
you should be matching peoplethat are heavy discounters where
they're not in the sameballpark as you.
And when it comes to capability, track record, team brand,
skills, negotiations, auctioneerall the elements, as you said,
troy, that guide someone in yourdirection, they're all
different.
You said, troy, that guidesomeone in your direction.
They're all different.
Tom Panos (25:14):
John, I want to share a story with you, and we can
finish off on this, because it'sgoing to explain the concept of
price and value.
So two years ago I did anauction.
The first bid was $300, I think, over reserve.
It ended up selling for $400over reserve.
It was a one-minute auction, Ithink it was reserve, as one two
sold for 400 over reserve.
It was a one minute auction, Ithink it was reserve, as one two
sold for one six.
I leave head to the car.
(25:35):
The owner follows me down.
I thought he was going to highfive me and give me a pat on the
back and he said this.
He said thank you and he goes.
That was a quick auction.
And I turned around and I saidyeah, and he goes.
How long does your averageauction?
(25:55):
Last?
I said I don't know about 15minutes he goes.
Do I get a discount?
I couldn't believe it, you know.
I said how come?
And he says that was one minute.
I mean the first bid was likewithin seconds.
I said well, you're not reallypaying me for the minute, you're
paying me for the 35 years thathave got it down to a minute.
(26:19):
And we got chatting and thereand there and then he goes yeah,
but you're only here for aminute and I said, hang on a
second.
You're telling me that youwould have preferred someone to
be here for half an hour.
Get it at 1.2 and you're happyto pay the full fee.
I said so.
You're telling me you'd ratherpay on time than value, and I
(26:46):
think a lot of real estatepeople need to understand.
I think Buffett says it peoplepay you a fee, but it's value
that they get back.
John McGrath (26:55):
That's a good point.
That's 100% good point.
A great auctioneer that gets asuperb price in 60 seconds is
better than an average one thattakes 10 minutes to not get as
good an outcome.
So yeah, it's all interestingstuff, but we'll have some more
topics for next week, so yeah,it's all interesting stuff.
Tom Panos (27:11):
We'll have some more topics for next week.
Yeah, Okay, Beautiful John Troy, good to see you again.
By the way, Troy, the Roosterswere unlucky right they were.
It was a good game.
It was a very good game.
Roosters have been playing.
Roosters have surprisedeveryone.
John, your team, South Sydney.
John's an inner West boy, halfand half I can suss him.
(27:34):
He does want the Tigers to winevery time they play.
Right, he does want them to winand I obviously want them to
win.
But I'm really really nervousabout this weekend against
Penrith, because even thoughPenrith is coming, I think
they're last, aren't they?
Troy Malcolm (27:50):
They've jumped up a bit.
Yeah, they're a couple ofplaces up now.
Yeah, they're a worry.
Tom Panos (27:56):
They're the only team that I actually think that
ladder does not stack up.
That team could actually winthe grand final.
Still, I think yeah, all rightygentlemen, all right guys,
we'll see you next week.
Troy Malcolm (28:09):
See you, John See.
Tom Panos, john McGrath, troy Malcolm.
Another week of Million DollarAgent the podcast post-Derek.
How are you, gentlemen?
John McGrath (00:12):
Good, Tommy, You're looking like a polar bear
there.
The audience can't see you, butI can, we can.
Yeah, You're all rugged up thewinter.
I reckon started snowingsomewhere near Sydney, for sure.
Troy Malcolm (00:24):
It is freezing today, absolutely freezing, I
love it.
Tom Panos (00:28):
I actually like I sleep a lot better in the winter
, cole, there's no questionabout it.
I sleep a lot better in thewinter months and I just think,
like when I was in Denmark withMadeline, where it's like close,
it's zero or minus degrees,they, they, they seem to do it
(00:49):
well.
They're just really fast atlayering their clothes, they,
they, they get used to it.
It's all it's all about, youknow, putting on the right
layers.
But if anyone could see meright now I've got one.
Everyone collects sloppy joesfrom people, right?
This has been given to me bysomeone on some podcast.
I get sloppy joes from people,right, this has been given to me
by someone on some podcast.
I get sloppy joes fromcampaignagentrealestatecom.
But, guys, you know, it's beenover a week since ARIC and I
(01:16):
have to say we say it every yearI think that was close to the
perfect conference, and I don'tsay it myself, I'm relaying what
has been said to me by thosethat went to it and those that
didn't go to it had people thattold them this time you missed
(01:36):
out, it was special.
There was a buzz that washappening the whole week.
So I was on the Gold Coast andBrisbane that whole week.
I still had people stopping mein the street in Surfers and
Broad Beach that Thursday,friday, saying man, how could it
(01:57):
be possible that everyone wasso good at the one time?
Troy Malcolm (02:02):
Yeah, I agree.
Sorry, troy, I was just goingto say I was in the expo most of
the time during the podcastrecordings for the ARIC podcast
and Tom.
I think that sums up exactlythe right word for the
conference a buzz.
Everyone was in there and youcould tell not only by the
conversations that they werehaving just hanging around the
(02:23):
expo but also how eager theywere to get back into the main
arena and to get to the propertymanagement breakout and Propik
did an auditorium breakout inthe expo as well and just the
amount of people that werereally enjoying that was really
positive.
So the buzz was very high andthe energy was really high and
it was great to see so manyfamiliar faces that have come
(02:43):
back to Eric year and year timeafter time yeah, and it was.
Tom Panos (02:49):
It'll always go down as the conference that John
McGrath entered the status ofgenius interviewing skills of
Barbara Walters.
Mate, I can't, I can't stop it.
Barbara Walters, don't be shyabout it, you're outstanding,
because let's be.
I mean, if you go off and saywhat was the best session, and I
(03:13):
ask everyone, like I have myown little votes Everyone's
saying Will Godera, and I saidto you offline, john, that it's
remarkable how a Q&A that hasbeen done virtually ends up
becoming what was talked aboutby everyone as the best session.
On that point, can we just likeJohn and Troy, we're not going
(03:35):
to use this is not going to bean Aric summary.
We did do the Hangover Cure andmost people have got access to
the AI summarised notes of theconference.
But when you were interviewingWill online, what are the top
one or two things that came outof it that you think is super
relevant to our real estateindustry?
John McGrath (03:57):
Well, you've got to go listen to the hot dog
story.
I think that's a legendary one.
If you Google Will Godera hotdog story, that's a classic
about creating a moment.
I thought that's a legendaryone.
If you Google Will Gadara hotdog story, that's a classic
about creating a moment.
I thought that wasextraordinary.
He actually I love the way hedived into the real estate
specific and he talked about howagents are very cookie
(04:18):
cutter-ish.
And he talked about, you know,working with an agent for six
months.
Then you get a bottle ofsparkling champagne and nothing
wrong with it, but you know,it's kind of fairly predictable.
And he said what if my wife,who's a yoga fan, who was
looking for a sunny spot to doyoga, if we had arrived at our
new apartment and there was abeautiful yoga mat, a little
personalized letter and a candlesaying I hope this becomes your
(04:39):
new sunny yoga spot?
So little things that just makebig differences.
And that's really what he builtthe world's best restaurant on.
I mean, there's millions ofrestaurants, or certainly
hundreds of thousands, that havegood food, good service, good
decor.
But he specialized in the onepercenters.
I reckon you know from thatperspective, that's what he had
(05:00):
some great stories.
Tom Panos (05:02):
Okay.
So Troy, john, two topics we'rejust going to sort of just
break up and talk about.
And you know we're not going tosit there and sort of say these
are the do's and these are thedon'ts.
But this whole real estatesocial media space, right at the
one end of the extreme you'vegot agents who you know
(05:26):
celebrity, podcast success,affluence.
On the other extreme you've gotsome people that are doing
absolutely nothing right, beinginvisible.
So there's this thing likewhat's the right thing, what's
the right frequency, what's thesort of stuff?
Are people turning people offwith their social media?
(05:47):
Are they posting too much orare they posting not enough?
I look at a lot of real estateagents' social media.
I sit from afar and look atthem, and I look at them on
Insta, I look at them on TikTok.
I don't seem to spend too muchtime on Facebook or LinkedIn
they're the two that I'm on andI seem to be on TikTok a lot
(06:08):
more.
I consume content better onTikTok for some reason.
But I do look at Insta becauseInsta is where the community is
TikTok.
You know, there's a lot ofpeople that are people that
don't have a relationship, butI'm interested in the topic.
John McGrath (06:22):
Yeah, look, you've got to be engaged, involved,
and I think you've got to beusing it both for selling
property as well as for personalbranding.
But the problem is, tommy, Ithink a lot of people all of a
sudden they've got a rush ofadrenaline, they realise they've
got their own little TV channel.
Their egos some of them, theiregos are pretty high and they
(06:48):
just turn it into a brag sessionand a know-it-all session.
And I think you know ReeseWitherspoon said it at ARIC a
few years ago and she said youknow, you've got to think of the
person who's receiving themessage, the note or the
Instagram post.
What do you want them to feel?
How do you want them to feelwhen they watch it?
And I think that's a real keyto success, whereas a lot of
(07:09):
agents see it as the opportunityto tell everyone how good they
are, and I think that's a turnoff.
So I think frequency is fine.
If you've got great content,that's without ego.
You know Matt's sign way too.
So are you, tom.
You know you guys are greatexamples because you'll frequent
posters I don't know howregularly, but daily, I would
imagine most of you and I can'twait to see Matt, whether he's
(07:31):
on TikTok or Instagram.
I just think his content'sbrilliant, as is yours.
But there are some other peopleagain that the minute I see my
scroll past them because I knowit's just going to be another
ego show and telling me how manyproperties they've sold this
month and how clever they areand all this sort of stuff.
So you've got to be sellingproperty.
I know REA and domain they'reso important parts of the
(07:56):
marketing mix.
But I reckon nowadays, socialmedia, if you're not using it
proactively to target buyers, Ithink you're missing a big
portion of the market.
So, yeah, I think you've got tobe using it both for personal
branding.
I mean, troy, you're a bit moreof an expert on social media
than me, but that's kind of myfirst level view.
Troy Malcolm (08:19):
Yeah, I agree, john, tom and John, I reckon
it's mainly down to adding value.
Um, tom and John, I reckon it'smainly down to adding value.
If you're not providing sometype of insight that's going to
help the consumer, the watcher,the person looking at the
content, don't post it.
You know there's there's amillion different ways to
deliver that message.
But if you do it like you weresaying, john, being authentic
(08:39):
and providing value, and youconstantly think how is this
going to help someone make adecision, whether it's the
decision to list and sell theirhome now, if it's the decision
to list their property for lease, if it's the decision to go and
buy a property, you've reallygot to position it and, john,
we've got a number of agentsthat do it really authentically
and well out there in the market.
But, yeah, I agree, there is afine line between delivering the
(09:03):
message and then going intothat ego space where you're
pulling up in the Lamborghiniand showing how many soldiers
are on the signboard.
I just don't think that thatresonates with people anymore.
I think there was a time andplace where people thought that
was cool, but most of the greatagents now have moved past that.
John McGrath (09:19):
It does not resonate, tom, but people hate
it.
Imagine the poor average personout there and that's mostly
customers.
When I say average, just normalJoe Blow, they're out there,
they're working hard, they'retaking a hundred grand a year
and maybe their partners areearning the same amount of money
.
And then an agent swans on andsays I've done six deals this
week and I've made $300,000.
(09:41):
People actually hate it.
They hate agents because mostagents don't tell the truth.
And then you get some pratonline just telling you how much
money he or she's made and Ijust think you know it's just
poor form.
Who likes it?
You know some of the young,testosterone-driven aspiring
agents.
They say oh, you know, isn't hegreat, isn't she great?
But you know, I really thinkit's a very strange approach.
(10:06):
So, humility, you Give me someinformation, make it interesting
, be creative.
I think that's the kind ofstarting point.
Tom Panos (10:18):
Yeah, what I was going to say is the irony of it
all is, in this country we knowthat housing is a big issue.
Like the average person whetheryou're a tenant or whether
you're a homeowner or whetheryou're a buyer, trying to get
into the market we know howchallenging it is and it's
(10:38):
ironic that probably the biggestthing that affects people's
lives is the thing that realestate agents sort of end up,
you know, talking about luxury,self-promotion, cars, watches,
you know all that stuff, in anenvironment where the average
(10:59):
person is actually in a lot ofpain because of either their
mortgages, the rent that they'repaying, or struggling to get
into the market.
As you said, it turns people off, particularly in tough economic
climates that we're in, and Ijust think that the majority and
the worst part about it Iactually think, is that when you
(11:22):
look at some of these posts,you actually think it's actually
been posted with the view thatanother agent's going to watch
it.
It's not even educational tothe consumer.
It's like, hey, like half thestuff that you see posted online
on social media the averageconsumer might not even
understand what it is, you know,sold in four days, one meal,
(11:46):
gci month.
They don't even understand thatstuff.
It's like there's thisecosystem of real estate agents
that are sort of trying tooutbrag each other, and I think
the opportunity is golden forthe small group of people that
actually say I am different, Iam like you, I'm a human being
(12:06):
and my job is in real estate.
I know that you needinformation that's going to help
you, so that's what I'm goingto be posting.
John McGrath (12:15):
Well, tommy, turn it around and I can't even think
of any industry that peoplehate probably as much as our
industry to a degree.
But just think of an industryyou hate, or someone or a
certain sector where they alwayspiss you off because they under
deliver or over promise orwhatever.
And then imagine them jumpingon Instagram and saying how much
money they've made this month.
So if you turn it around, yourealize this is just absurd.
(12:38):
What agents do and I'm notsaying they hate every agent,
because there are some good ones, and most of them listen to
this podcast because they'reeducating themselves and the
maniacs probably don't like usbecause we're always bashing
them too Just saying it's justcrazy.
But, yeah, I think it's justcrazy.
But, um, yeah, I think it'sreally.
Yeah, you've got to be in it.
Um, you know, video?
(12:58):
Um, property video, drone shots, um, valuable stuff again, even
for property stuff, you've gotto be careful you don't try and
become the star of the show.
You know this is not milliondollar listing or lux listings.
This is about a property thatyou're promoting on behalf of a
client.
How can you best showcase thisproperty so it will appeal to
(13:19):
most people?
And, um, yeah, it's generallynot, you know, having you on 50
of the shots focused on you andseeing you stroll around the
property, you know you.
You want to be able to see therooms and the views and how the
rooms connect with each other inthe front of the property, in
the rear, rear of the property,and so make sure it's about the
property.
So I think it's a great giftfor agents to be able to promote
(13:42):
themselves in properties, butdo it the right way.
Troy Malcolm (13:45):
Yeah, it's never been easier to actually get the
message out there as well.
Like everyone has an iPhone, togo and get, tom, as you know,
some small microphones thatattach to you as a lapel and get
a gimbal and walk through aproperty and just talk about it.
It's never been easier to postthat content online with
authenticity.
So I feel like those thatembrace it are definitely
(14:06):
catering to both sides of themarket and they're going to do
really well.
They're going to continue to dowell.
Touche, yeah.
Tom Panos (14:18):
I just you know what I'm going to.
I think maybe in one of thenext few podcasts I'm going to
actually I wouldn't.
I'm not in a position to do itnow because you actually even
asked me.
You know who are the peoplethat are doing amazing real
estate social media content.
I can't even think of that many.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to actually start
collating a list to actuallymaybe send some of our listeners
and say, hey, this is the sortof content.
(14:41):
But I can tell you there's oneagent who told me what they do
is that every month they get thenewsletter from their local
council.
They just get it online andthey just know that their
community is probably not goingto be sort of going onto the
council website.
So they just go off and say,hey, I'm just going to give you
a five minute wrap on whathappened in our town in the
(15:03):
month of May, and he just prettymuch just reads off the
council's blog that they've gotsome PR person, that's done and
it's useful information, right.
So yeah, anyway.
So out of curiosity, troy, whenyou're consuming content do you
consume?
Are you mainly on Instagram?
Troy Malcolm (15:26):
Yeah, instagram is probably I kind of more lean
into Instagram more than anyother platform, but I have
started.
There's a lot more agents nowon TikTok, I've got to be honest
, and there's a lot more contentbeing pushed out to places like
LinkedIn as well, likeLinkedIn's got a bit of a
resurgence at the moment, tomand John.
So those three platformsFacebook, everyone's kind of
fallen away from.
I don't go onto that platformvery often, if at all, but
(15:49):
between Instagram, tiktok andLinkedIn, that's where I'm
spending the majority of my time.
And then, if it's longer formcontent, it's definitely
something like a YouTube, whichis video platforms.
Tom Panos (15:59):
I'm changing John and Troy.
I'm changing from probably fromJuly onwards.
It's going to mean more effort.
I'm not putting the samecontent on Instagram and TikTok
because I found that, tiktok,you've got to laugh at yourself.
Tiktok, you've got to laugh atyourself.
Tiktok, you've got to be alittle bit quirky.
I can go off and put you knowlike a bit of you know training
(16:22):
content on Instagram becauseyou've got your community there
right and they're your regulars.
But you know and we've got toaccept that the real estate
industry is not that well likedout there in the community.
So I find I hear what you'resaying.
John McGrath (16:39):
I don't 100% agree because I was watching today.
I spoke about it with Troy onour webinar this morning.
Alex Hermosi, you've seen him,yep, yep, great content.
And I think I see him on TikTokmost because that's probably
the platform I look at most.
Never funny, never crazy, buthe delivers stuff and I think he
edits it right.
(17:00):
So you've only got to watch 15seconds, 30 seconds, and you get
a piece of gold.
And I think there aredefinitely I know what you're
saying, but I think there aresome people that have mastered
the TikTok space who aredelivering good coaching
commentary.
That's really useful, reallyuseful.
But see, you've got the benefitthat you've got sort of two
(17:23):
gears and you know you've got areally serious set of messages
you often send out and you'veoften got some you know sort of
you know, not crazy, but youknow you're sort of challenging
people more and you have a bitof fun and a bit of laugh with
it.
But I think, yeah, for someonelike Homozy, who's not a funny
guy, he certainly doesn'tpromote that in the way he
presents himself.
(17:44):
And TikTok has been renowned,troy, as a kind of entertainment
space.
Really I think TikTok now is agreat educational space as well.
I probably get more.
You know my answer to thatquestion, tom.
I get most of my content fromTikTok, I'd say second Instagram
.
I don't look at LinkedIn a lot.
(18:04):
I definitely look at YouTube alot and YouTube Shorts, which is
kind of their version of TikTok, and when I'm really looking
for some serious information, ifthere's a topic that's going on
or a debate or something Trumpor Tariff, something like that I
would tend to go to X or theold Twitter.
I find that there's some reallysmart people and you get their
(18:26):
insights and it helps youformulate your own opinion.
But I reckon TikTok's movedfrom a kids' entertainment space
to now a much broader platformwhere someone, an expert in real
estate, could and I see peopledo it quite a lot- yeah,
(18:46):
tiktok's become for me where Ilike, even getting information
on sport and what's going on inthe world and economy.
Tom Panos (18:55):
I don't seem to be looking at sports shows or
looking at news, because I justknow that the recency of TikTok
it's there within a couple ofhours.
Listen, you know, the otherthing that we were going to talk
about today is fees.
You know the other thing thatwe were going to talk about
today is fees.
Yeah, I actually went to.
I was doing some training todaywith the Diamond Tee's group
(19:16):
out there and even out therewhere prices you know Penrith,
st Mary's, they're a lot lowerFees.
I mean in some marketplaces I'mreally surprised at how low
people go, but you know it is,it is life, um, and I also, and
(19:40):
I also accept that you can turnaround and there are certain
vendors that are sticker shockervendors that will turn around
and say I get everything thatyou've said, but I only want to
pay that.
What you hearing on fees in thegroup and John Troy, your views
on this race to the bottom, weused to like.
I mean there was a time, john,when you and I were selling real
estate, if you can recall, newSouth Wales 3.1% to the first
(20:05):
100, and then 2% thereafter.
John McGrath (20:07):
I still remember the actual fee and I think
Queensland, they kind of stickpretty much to a similar script
and fees up there, in terms ofpercentage-wise, are generally
higher.
Look, I mean, obviously, whatwe should say before this is
everyone's got to make their owndecision on fees.
We're not trying to collude,we'll pump their prices up.
(20:28):
I mean, agents are like anyother service.
There are better ones, averageones and worse ones.
My view is, if you're one ofthe best, it only makes sense
that you should be moreexpensive than someone who's
less successful, less competent,not as good a negotiator.
I mean, why would a world-classnegotiator, an agent working
(20:49):
under an amazing brand with aterrific team supporting them,
charge the same as some personthat finished TAFE, you know,
six months ago and they soldthree properties?
So I think you've got to assesswhere you're at in the market
and where you see the value youbring and the value you put on
yourself.
I mean, the price you charge isthe way you tell the market,
where you see the value you'rebringing to the process or to
(21:11):
the negotiation.
So I think you know you've gotto make your own decision on it.
I think people discount far tooreadily.
I think that a lot of vendors,the fee is actually not that
important.
It's a common and obviousquestion.
You know what would you do itfor?
How low would you?
You know what would younegotiate down to that's.
Every vendor is going to askyou a version of that question.
(21:33):
But if you say you know that'smy fee, two, three, whatever
your percentage is, and youstick to it, I think you'd be
surprised how many people sayokay, where do I sign?
I think people respect an agentthat has strength in their
position on fees and if you'rehalf a percent or even a percent
(21:53):
more than someone else and youbring a lot more value to the
table, it shouldn't be that hardto justify it.
So, having said that, I thinkit's also a little bit price
related.
I mean, a million dollars at 2%is 20 grand and 10 million is
200 grand.
And a vendor will probablyargue well, it's no harder or
(22:14):
easier to sell a 10 million thana million.
So you'll probably find thehigh and since many prices in
some of the big cities and theregionals have gone crazy,
there's quite a few vendors thatsay hang on, I can't see why I
should be paying you $500,000for your fee.
So I think prices have risen.
People are under some sort ofpressure.
(22:36):
Whilst I don't think fees are areason people do or don't
choose you, there probably is alimit depending on the price
range you're at.
Troy Malcolm (22:44):
Troy, I think.
John, you mentioned it justbefore.
You spoke about value and again, if you can't articulate your
value in the lounge room to yourclient, they will decide on the
fee that you charge.
The very best that I've seen inthe industry they go in with a
plan, they have a strategy andthey have proven case studies
that if they follow that planand execute that, then they get
(23:06):
the premium result.
That then they get the premiumresult.
You're right, not many peopleselect people on the fee they
charge.
They actually take that as onelayer of many layers to deciding
which is the right agent forthem, and the objections that
normally come in fees is one ofthem, but it's not the main one.
Why people do or don't selectan agent depending on-.
John McGrath (23:26):
So if you're a standout as an agent and you'll
call it 3% which in Queenslandis certainly not uncommon, and
someone's just left, and theywere pretty mediocre, with no
creativity, no innovation, notrack record, and they were 2% I
can't see anyone going to savethe 1%.
Having said that, if you alllook the same and if no one is a
(23:46):
standout and if no one presentstheir case as to why choose
them with incredible gusto andgreat facts and compelling well,
then they will take the 1%.
If everyone looks the same,people take the cheapest.
But I do think you've got toremember that the value you
place on yourself in a lot ofvendors' minds is you know the
(24:08):
value that you know.
You go into a shop right andyou're looking at buying a
product and there's six of themon the shelf from different
suppliers.
You see the one and they willlook fairly similar, maybe
slightly different.
The one that's most expensive.
Most people will assume it'sthe better quality.
It's just commonplace.
Not everyone's going to buythat one, but most people would
(24:28):
assume that's the best.
Well, this is not a product.
This is a service that can makea big difference to the net you
bring into your bank account atthe end of the transaction.
So, yeah, I think so, but, as Isaid, we're not here to guide
you on what you should orshouldn't charge.
But I think you should havepride in your service and you
think you should place a valueon yourself that reflects the
(24:49):
value you believe you bring tothe equation, and I don't think
you should be matching peoplethat are heavy discounters where
they're not in the sameballpark as you.
And when it comes to capability, track record, team brand,
skills, negotiations, auctioneerall the elements, as you said,
troy, that guide someone in yourdirection, they're all
different.
You said, troy, that guidesomeone in your direction.
They're all different.
Tom Panos (25:14):
John, I want to share a story with you, and we can
finish off on this, because it'sgoing to explain the concept of
price and value.
So two years ago I did anauction.
The first bid was $300, I think, over reserve.
It ended up selling for $400over reserve.
It was a one-minute auction, Ithink it was reserve, as one two
sold for 400 over reserve.
It was a one minute auction, Ithink it was reserve, as one two
sold for one six.
I leave head to the car.
(25:35):
The owner follows me down.
I thought he was going to highfive me and give me a pat on the
back and he said this.
He said thank you and he goes.
That was a quick auction.
And I turned around and I saidyeah, and he goes.
How long does your averageauction?
(25:55):
Last?
I said I don't know about 15minutes he goes.
Do I get a discount?
I couldn't believe it, you know.
I said how come?
And he says that was one minute.
I mean the first bid was likewithin seconds.
I said well, you're not reallypaying me for the minute, you're
paying me for the 35 years thathave got it down to a minute.
(26:19):
And we got chatting and thereand there and then he goes yeah,
but you're only here for aminute and I said, hang on a
second.
You're telling me that youwould have preferred someone to
be here for half an hour.
Get it at 1.2 and you're happyto pay the full fee.
I said so.
You're telling me you'd ratherpay on time than value, and I
(26:46):
think a lot of real estatepeople need to understand.
I think Buffett says it peoplepay you a fee, but it's value
that they get back.
John McGrath (26:55):
That's a good point.
That's 100% good point.
A great auctioneer that gets asuperb price in 60 seconds is
better than an average one thattakes 10 minutes to not get as
good an outcome.
So yeah, it's all interestingstuff, but we'll have some more
topics for next week, so yeah,it's all interesting stuff.
Tom Panos (27:11):
We'll have some more topics for next week.
Yeah, Okay, Beautiful John Troy, good to see you again.
By the way, Troy, the Roosterswere unlucky right they were.
It was a good game.
It was a very good game.
Roosters have been playing.
Roosters have surprisedeveryone.
John, your team, South Sydney.
John's an inner West boy, halfand half I can suss him.
(27:34):
He does want the Tigers to winevery time they play.
Right, he does want them to winand I obviously want them to
win.
But I'm really really nervousabout this weekend against
Penrith, because even thoughPenrith is coming, I think
they're last, aren't they?
Troy Malcolm (27:50):
They've jumped up a bit.
Yeah, they're a couple ofplaces up now.
Yeah, they're a worry.
Tom Panos (27:56):
They're the only team that I actually think that
ladder does not stack up.
That team could actually winthe grand final.
Still, I think yeah, all rightygentlemen, all right guys,
we'll see you next week.
Troy Malcolm (28:09):
See you, John See.
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