July 28, 2025 • 31 mins
Underquoting is under increasing scrutiny in Australia, with regulators cracking down on misleading pricing tactics. In this episode, Tom Panos, John McGrath, and Troy Malcolm dive into what underquoting really is, why it happens, and how ethical agents can avoid it.
They explore three common pricing pitfalls: lack of product knowledge, deliberate deception, and good agents being pressured by dodgy competitors. More importantly, they offer real-world strategies—like early buyer feedback, honest price conversations, and aligning vendor expectations transparently across a campaign.
Troy discusses how buyers now use AI to do their own market research, making deception harder than ever. John McGrath reinforces the need for radical transparency, stating, "We don’t condition, we don’t make up buyers, we don’t make up comments."
With Tom reporting a strong market and a recent 100% clearance rate, this timely episode provides essential insights for agents who want to stay ethical—and competitive.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Panos (00:00):
Tom Panos, john McGrath, troy, malcolm, million
Dollar Agent the podcast.
By the way, gentlemen, I've gotto tell you I was listening to
some other podcasts the otherday and I went on there and had
a look at a number of episodes,the podcast and then I just
thought let's just go binge onthese different podcasts, see
(00:22):
how many they are.
I actually we've done listen,we've done pretty good to be
going for Troy.
It is over a decade, isn't it?
Yeah, 2013,.
We kicked off.
If you actually have a look atit, there is like there's, I've
got to say, podcasting hasexploded to the point that even
people that aren't in educationI mean everyone's got a podcast,
(00:44):
that even people that aren't ineducation, I mean everyone's
got a podcast.
We've gone the distance.
But I think, troy, we're theonly ones that aren't making
money out of podcasting.
That's true.
John McGrath (00:56):
Troy.
I've seen a clipping to Tom.
The other day, while he wasoverseas, there was an article
about an Australian podcast thatjust sold for $8.5 million.
I said to Tom what are we doingwrong?
No, we're not doing anythingwrong.
Actually, We've got a loyalband of followers who are
listening right now and weappreciate you all and we love
doing it and we enjoy In fact,today is going to be a great one
(01:19):
, because this is an importanttopic right around Australia but
we enjoy what we do, so, eventhough we do it for love, not
money, that's okay too.
Troy Malcolm (01:30):
I was going to say we've got the first part right,
john, we started a podcast, wejust haven't monetized it.
What do they say If you?
John McGrath (01:36):
follow your passion, the money will follow.
Well, let's see about that 10years later, tom, today, I know
you want to talk about, and sodo I.
Let's call it underquoting.
It's a scourge of the industry.
Certainly, the various NCATsand VCATs and so forth, and OFTs
the regulatory bodies are rightnow, as they should be, putting
(02:00):
it under the microscope.
What are we referring to?
We're referring to agents whosystematically not occasionally,
but systematically push aproperty out into the market at
an artificial price that itcan't be bought at, to attract
more interest.
And there are going to be a lotof dire consequences, because
(02:23):
all the consumer bodies aroundthe country are getting
complaints on a regular basisand they're sick and tired of
the real estate industry goingout there with outdated
practices that lack transparency, that waste people's time and
money and so am I, by the way.
I've been banging on this allthree of us have for the best
part of that decade, I think.
(02:43):
I'm sure, if you look at thefirst few episodes, we probably
spoke about the bad practices ofthe industry.
So I think today, tommy, we'regoing to talk about what the
hell is underquoting.
Why does it happen?
Why does it not only happenoccasionally?
Why does it seem to be aconstant thorn in the agents?
Because if you don't get thisright, if you don't deal with
(03:04):
this, there are licenses andbusinesses that will go to the
wall, because I think enough'senough and I think the governing
bodies are sort of coming tothat same conclusion.
So we don't want anyone that'slistening here to suffer from
that negative consequence, oranyone in the industry, even if
they're not listening.
I mean, I love the industry andpretty much all the real estate
(03:27):
agents that I know I reallylove, and even the people I like
and respect.
Tom, some of them have got thisbad practice because they're
just not sure how to change thehabit or how to do it properly,
how to deal with it.
What do you think?
Tom Panos (03:39):
So there's three, john and Troy, three things in
real estate.
This is my 39th year, threeyears in real estate that have
bugged me Overpricing, wherethey deceive an owner on what
price they're going to get this.
Conditioning, where they go inmanipulation, no market buyer
(04:02):
intel, no intelligence, and theyuse a sledgehammer to crunch an
owner.
And then the third one is theunderquoting.
So if those three thingsweren't happening, I would say
we work in the perfect industry.
We meet amazing people, we addvalue, we change lives and we
can end up building aneffortless, lucrative, fun life.
(04:24):
But the under quoting out of thethree seems to be the big
spotlight, and we are talking,of course, specifically about
markets that are auction focusedmarketplaces.
That's where it's relevant.
So let's kick it off, troy,john, firstly, I think it's
(04:44):
important to define, becausethere are times where people
walk away feeling like thatagent has underquoted, but they
haven't underquoted what it waswas.
It was a result that wentbeyond that was expecting.
So I think what we should lookat is what is underquoting and
what is not underquoting in aresult.
So let's touch on that.
John McGrath (05:07):
So, tommy, I think look, as I said up front, this
is what we're talking about isthe systematic, premeditated
approach to agents saying youknow, I'm going to tell them
it's worth 1.2.
But then, when the buyersarrive, I'm going to tell them
they might buy it for a million,and that someone you know
thinks that's a good idea, andsomeone that does this well,
(05:29):
actually, if you do it once it'sbad.
But this is as opposed tosomeone.
Why do I think?
Troy, underquoting and whereverunderquoting is happening,
there's probably overquoting.
The same agents are telling thevendors, often an inflated
price, yes, and then they'regoing to the market at a lesser
price, and often not just alesser price than the inflated
(05:49):
one, a lesser price than thereal market value.
That's why you end up with this.
You know, 20% gap.
I think there's three Troy,there's three avenues.
Some agents, their productknowledge is not as good as it
needs to be, should be, and theyget it wrong.
Well, you might say.
Well, you can't really comedown too hard and someone gets
it wrong.
Well, yes, I can, because if abrain surgeon screwed up because
(06:13):
they hadn't read the manual orthe books or been to the course
that they needed to get to.
That's pretty serious.
Real estate agents have anobligation and a responsibility
to be up to speed.
You know as much as practicableon their product knowledge.
But that is I think that's thefirst case is sometimes people
get it wrong, and I guess ifoccasionally you get it wrong,
(06:34):
not the end of the world.
The next one I think that we'rereally going to look at is what
I mentioned before a systematic, premeditated underquoting.
Tom Panos (06:43):
The intent was there, wasn't it?
John A hundred percent.
John McGrath (06:46):
And these are the people that know what it's worth
tell the vendor more, tell thebuyers less, highly illegal
process in pretty much everywell, in every part of Australia
, as it should be, and NewZealand and you know.
Certainly I'm not sureelsewhere in the world, but I
know a lot of Kiwis watch this.
So I think that's just peoplethat have been taught to do it
(07:10):
the wrong way, that haven'tfigured out this is a bad
practice, or people that thinkit's a good practice to win
business and then you know sortof create a competitive auction.
And I think the third one isprobably good agents, good
people, but they know that theirmajor competitors are going in
high and they kind of haven'tfigured out how do you have the
conversation without losing alisting.
(07:31):
So they're not maliciousintending, but they just haven't
honed their skills.
So I think the first one youcan dispense with is just get
really good on product knowledge.
You've got to know what's sold,what's for sale, what offers
are coming in on properties,what's sold off market.
(07:51):
That's just really critical,troy.
Here's where I think theinteresting part happens is what
do you do when you know thatcompetitors in your marketplace
are going to?
And let's just for today, let'scall a property market
comparables around a million andwe know competitors are saying
one one and we know that a lotof those same agents, if they
(08:14):
list the property, they'requoting 900 plus this kind of
craziness.
And, as you know, tommy, someof them are even coming up with
look, I'm going to put this onthe agreement because I have to
by law and I can't quite Allthat sort of rubbish.
My God, just learn to tell thetruth.
So I think, troy, there's somedialogue here and I know you and
I and Tom teach this a lot.
(08:36):
I think it's important A is tobe able to curate the right
recent comparables and Irecommend three to five.
Any more than five becomesconfusing and suggests that I
mean CoreLogic could give me 30.
I actually want an expert thatcan refine down a list of recent
sales that look a bit like mine, that can actually match and
(08:57):
give me comparative reason as towhy it might be seen by the
buyers.
So I take the pressure off, asyou know, up front, troy.
I say Troy, you know, here'sthe good news we don't need to
finalise price today.
In fact, I'll go a step further, troy.
I don't think we should belooking to finalise price today,
because there's one thingneither you nor I know as we sit
(09:17):
here today is what's it reallyworth.
What we can look at is whatother similar properties that
are on similar locations andhave similar improvements and
similar land size, what thesesort of properties have been
fetching in the market to date,and also what other properties
similar to yours perhaps mightbe being offered for.
So I find, up front, if youtake the pressure off this
(09:40):
decision to have to determineand finalise a price today, it
actually helps your process,troy.
Troy Malcolm (09:47):
Yeah, I agree, john, and most of the time when
it comes to agents winninglistings on price, you can
guarantee their strategy andproven track record probably
doesn't equal the skill theyhave.
It's actually interesting, tomand John.
I have a couple of friends thatare trying to buy a property at
the moment and the agent thatthey're trying to purchase it
(10:10):
from has been fantasticthroughout the whole campaign
and has been really clear withthe transparency around what
other properties that aresimilar to theirs that they're
going to purchase has sold for.
Here's the interesting thingthe buyers right now are so
savvy.
Here's the interesting thingthe buyers right now are so
savvy.
They've taken that informationfrom the agent and they've put
(10:30):
it into AI and to see what elseis selling in the area.
So, john, you know how youmentioned RP Data and CoreLogic
and Cotality can produce allthose recent sales for you.
The buyers are savvy enough totake that information, put it
into AI and then generate whatthey deem is the appropriate
price, and I just think we'reheading down this pathway For
(10:52):
the agents that keep gettingthis wrong.
You're going to get found out.
Technology is enabling so muchmore information and really
being transparent around thatinformation and giving the
clients the really valuableinformation.
If you're even 10% out, you'regoing to come undone, so I think
transparency wins here everytime, even speaking, troy.
Tom Panos (11:15):
that's brilliant, and I don't know how my brain
hadn't come up to correlateusing AI there, because every
day we're finding a differentway to use AI to make our lives
better.
And there's just another one.
But I can also see the AI beingable to do the same thing and
showing the vendor or saying hey, I need you to know that this
(11:37):
is what we're doing.
They're putting your address inthere and they're saying give
me the most relevant sales.
Relevant sales, yeah.
Troy Malcolm (11:43):
So Tom, I did this .
I did this on the weekendbecause I kind of thought, oh,
that's interesting.
When they said it to me Ihadn't kind of clicked on, but I
did it and I had a look on theweekend and it was the results
that were happening on theweekend.
So it actually grabbedrealestatecom and Domain's
results from the weekend andactually spat out results back
to make the sales like to theminute, not just within the last
three months, it was like fromthe weekend, which I thought was
(12:06):
amazing.
Tom Panos (12:11):
Jordan, john Troy I want to continue on this
conversation that John startedabout, like you know, the three
groups.
Let's talk.
So let's try and come up andhelp our listeners, because
every one of our listeners isprobably our listeners.
We make the assumption ofpeople that want to do the right
thing, they've got the rightintent, they've got the right
(12:33):
transparency.
But I, troy and John, I havegood real estate agents that say
, tom, but you need tounderstand every vendor that
goes onto the market is alwaysbeing optimistic, regardless.
Number one, they're going totry and go for that 2% to 5%
premium anyway, right?
Everyone thinks their house isworth more.
Everyone thinks their kid'sbetter looking than what it is.
(12:55):
We accept all of that.
But in addition to that,unfortunately in our industry,
every area does seem to have atleast one Larry the liar, and
that is one that goes in thereand says, oh look, I'll get you
the 1.2.
So when you've got the doubleeffect of an owner being
optimistic and then also a Larrythe liar, then you've got good
(13:17):
quality people that need a wayto be able to sort of give that
vendor the opportunity to go fortheir aim price but at the same
time have the conversation in atransparent way to say if this
happens, we're going to do this,if this happens, we're going to
do this.
And on your point, john, whereyou talk about having the
(13:39):
pressure off, because a reallygood real estate agent will take
into account the buyer intel,the feedback and all the stuff
that happens after the home goeson the market.
And, as you said, john,sometimes you're adjusting down
but sometimes you're adjustingup, because if you have a
campaign where you end upgetting 70 groups come through
(14:02):
in week one and 15 people askfor a contract and you know you
went out there thinking, hey, itwas 1 to 1.1, you might need to
re-look at it and say, hey,listen, we've got so much
interest, we better accept thatwe might actually have to start
educating these buyers andre-look at the sales again,
(14:22):
because that happens a lot ofthe times as well.
John McGrath (14:25):
Yeah, totally, which is where I mean agents as
wordsmiths.
So number one is you've got tohave an incredibly solid
foundation of product knowledgeso you know the facts.
Two is you have to be smartenough to realise there are
always exceptions.
So we've all seen, andhopefully experienced for
ourselves, where we've done sucha damn good job.
(14:46):
We've got eight buyers at anauction and it's gone for 20%
above reserve.
So we know that.
And, by the way, you should beadjusting that going forward if
you're aware of the priceescalation.
So I think that's cool.
So on that example, I wastalking about Troy.
So you know it's probablycomparable to saying a million,
a lot of dirty agents are goingto be saying Troy.
(15:07):
So you know it's probablycomparable to saying a million,
a lot of dirty agents are goingto be saying, oh, we're going to
quote 900, and yet they've toldthe vendor 1-1.
And the vendor probably wouldlike to hear 1-1.
In fact, they might pop a biton top and say, well, you know,
I'm a seller at 1,150,000.
So how do you deal with that?
You say you know, troy,$1,150,000 would be an
(15:29):
extraordinary result.
In fact it probably would breakrecords and I would love to
break records if they'reachievable.
I have at the moment a lot ofbuyers I'm working with.
In fact, I did some researchbefore I came here and, knowing
what you'd told me beforehandthat you would like to get in
the early millions I've goteight or nine buyers right now
that have got a budget of $1,1to $ 1.2.
And if you put me to work today, the first people I'm going to
call are those people with thebudget at the price range that
(15:53):
you're trying to achieve.
I'm going to get them throughin the short period of time.
Initially, and one of two thingsis going to happen, troy, we're
going to achieve that sort ofresult that would break that
record and we're going to getfeedback, which is great.
Or we that sort of result thatwould break that record and
we're going to get feedback,which is great.
Or we're going to get feedbackto suggest that we're not
fishing where the fish are andwe need to actually adjust our
sites to actually createinterest and create competitive
(16:14):
tension.
So you just have an honestconversation.
But again, you know some peopletalk about you don't want to,
you know, steal their dreams ortake away their hope, and I get
that but you also don't wantthem going into a campaign
expecting that oh, oh yeah, 115,I reckon that's a goer, we'll
achieve that and then you waittill the first open home and
then you either quote what theywant and you're burning the
(16:35):
market, or you then quotesomething way lower and you're
committing an illegal act inmany jurisdictions.
So I think you've just got tolearn to have those honest
conversations and have productknowledge that gives you a good
footing and have a buyerdatabase across a whole range of
buyers so you can startbringing people through at the
(16:56):
top end of their goal and theirdream price and then get some
feedback.
Troy.
Tom Panos (17:03):
That's beautifully said, John.
Can you extend on that?
Troy Malcolm (17:06):
Yeah, I was just going to say John and Tom.
You know, john, you justmentioned that they're having
that pool of buyers, those hotbuyers that you've been working
really closely with, to get themthrough very early on in the
campaign, like within the firstcouple of days of listing it.
They will be really transparent, especially if you have an
existing relationship with them.
I think if you go out there andjust try to pitch a price and
(17:32):
wait for the first open forinspection, you're kind of
already behind the eight ball.
You've really got to be infront of it and make sure that
you're getting really valuablefeedback, that's transparent,
from those buyers and then takeit straight to the owners and
say, hey, listen, the great newsis we got really valuable
feedback.
The great news also is that wemay need to adjust our price up
or down, and that's even beforethe first open for inspection or
before the first set ofappointments.
So I think, john, you nailed itin regards to having that pool
(17:54):
of buyers.
Now what's the right number,depending on your area?
20, 30.
I think, john, some of our bestagents have a pool of 50 buyers
that they work with at any onetime, based on the volume of the
market that they push through.
But 20 to 30 of those hotbuyers is always the goal.
So you know exactly the pricepoint, the type of property, the
configuration, but also thelifestyle attributes as well
that they're looking for.
Tom Panos (18:17):
John just jump in.
It's interesting, troy, becauseI ask a lot of agents, when
they're making that adjustmenton the guide, because they don't
have the buyer intel, do theywait till the end of week one or
do they actually do it byhaving a preview inspection with
buyers that they've already gotbefore they actually start
(18:39):
marketing?
And I get I get a mixed message.
I get some say we like toactually try and address price
before we actually launch onweek one, after we've had our
buyer intel.
I have other agents that say,tom, we need to sometimes go
through week one and week twobecause many of our vendors are
going to say that we haven't hadthe first week of the campaign.
(19:04):
And I get all of that.
I've said it to you off camerabefore.
John.
I've got to give credit to Tarun, one of your agents, who's done
exactly that.
We had a situation it's alisting that's a friend of mine.
He was managing it for him Atthe last week of the campaign.
They've got no buyers.
The feedback they were givingthe vendor didn't want to adjust
(19:27):
.
The vendor rings me up Tom,should I just cancel my auction,
right?
Tarun is saying that maybe ifwe adjust the price and we add
another two weeks because itdoes take time, sometimes for a
price, to filter on to aninspection.
More buyers get excited by thetime they get their lawyers
involved.
They extended the campaign bytwo weeks and in the end the
(19:50):
owner ended up getting more thanwhat he was originally hoping
to get Right.
It created competitive tensionand it went off.
John McGrath (20:00):
Yeah, I think there's.
And Tarun, he's a freak of anagent.
I think we saw a stat the otherday I'll send it to you Tommy
16 of the top 20 sales inStrathfield he's done which is
phenomenal 80% of the top sales.
He's incredible.
But there's a couple of thingsthat come to mind just want to
make sure our audience capturesthis.
Number one is you need to havethe buyers, as Troy said, across
(20:21):
several price ranges to be ableto early on.
Now I'm not talking and it didsound like some of that feedback
that the vendor took was at thetail end of his campaign.
But in an ideal world youactually want if there's
feedback to the contrary thatsuggests that you're fishing
where the fish aren't and you'regoing in too high, in an ideal
(20:41):
world you actually want that upfront.
So if you can get off marketfirst week before you actually
have any opens, even before ithits the website, potentially
get some of your most qualifiedbuyers at the upper end through.
And if the feedback is you guysare kidding, you're going too
high, it's not worth that andit's qualified commentary from
people that are in the marketthat really they know what's
(21:05):
going on.
I think that's really critical.
So urgency off market early on,I think, is really critical.
And the second thing is, youknow, at the listing,
presentation or soon afteryou've got to say Tom, I just
want to talk to you about how Ithink this kind of process
generally works best.
I'm sort of a bit of anunfiltered frequent
communication guy and I'm happyto do it via text if that works
(21:27):
better.
You're a busy guy, but what Ifind is, every time I have a
quality conversation withsomeone who's in the market, who
knows what they're talkingabout, that's either inquired or
come through your property.
I like to share as much of thatwith you because this is a real
partnership and if I hold backon information it's probably not
in your best interest.
So if you're good with it, I'lljust sort of keep you updated
(21:50):
on the commentary.
And I've never in 40 years ofreal estate had someone say no,
don't tell me.
No, actually once I have.
I sold a property in BellevueHill in Kambala Road, many, many
, many moons ago and this guysaid to me and it was true he
said send me a text once a weekand I'll see you at the auction.
And we sold it, fortunately,but that was all he wanted.
(22:11):
I tried to contact him and hesaid didn't you hear what I said
?
I don't want to talk to you.
Send me a text once a week andI'll see you at the auction.
And fortunately we got away.
Tom Panos (22:22):
Sounds like it.
Ryan Serhant said I don't knowwhat it is with billionaires.
All they want to do is send youa text message.
They don't want to talkanything.
They feel like if I get talkingit's not going to be in my best
interest.
John McGrath (22:32):
Well, it's close to the mark because this guy was
extremely wealthy and verysuccessful and he's just one of
those guys he knew.
He said I don't want to bebothered, just don't email me,
don't call me, send me a text.
So anyway, they're theexception.
But everyone else says, yeah,yeah, keep me posted, it's
important.
So I think that's really acouple of critical pieces that
(22:54):
you get permission upfront tolet them know the commentary
along the way, you get buyersthrough early that have the
capacity to pay the top end ofthe market, and you get feedback
early.
So preferably you can get itsold by the auction date.
But Tarun did the right thing,as he always does.
If he feels that the weight ofevidence is starting to suggest,
(23:17):
the closer we get to theauction, that we're a little bit
high, let's adjust it.
Let's just take our medicine,adjust it, push the auction back
a week or two and I know, troy,you've had a number of your top
agents who have adopted thesame.
It's not a strategy but it's aflexibility within a sales
campaign to do it.
And of course, Troy, you've gotthe other opportunity and I
(23:37):
know a lot of your agency, yourauction for it, mcgrath as well
bring auctions forward.
Sometimes you get a whoosh ofenthusiasm in the first week of
the campaign.
You've got seven contracts out,everyone wants to make an offer
, vendor is keen to sell, andyou say, well, we're going to
bring this damn auction forwardtwo weeks and we'll do it next
Saturday.
So I think you've got to beflexible as an agent.
(23:57):
But what you never do is tell anuntruth.
Don't tell someone somethingthat's not real.
Yes, agree to them, it'll be agreat outcome.
Yes, tell them, you'll try andget it.
Tell them you've got buyers atthat level You'll be getting
through as long as it's true.
But there's no need.
You know, you just don't wantto be going and telling.
(24:17):
And imagine if it was a memberof your family, tom.
You know, like someone youcared for your parents or your
best friend or whatever one ofyour kids.
You know, I know you're soclose with your kids, tommy.
Imagine they went to buy theirfirst home and you know an
agent's quoting 600 goes for 800and they're devastated.
And they come home and they'reemotional.
I mean, it's just, it's a badvibe, man, you just don't do
(24:40):
that, tony.
Tom Panos (24:41):
Listen, I have got a family case study on a real
estate issue about a year agoand he's also been negligent.
The vendor, my friend.
He had his property valued.
The agent was adamant, I'mgoing to get you this price.
He went off and bought anotherproperty.
Right, he's bought this otherproperty thinking to himself.
(25:05):
There ends up being a $400,000differential between the hope
price and the sell price.
And listen, you know a lot ofpeople $400,000 is game changing
in their life.
It changes the direction oftheir life significantly.
But, john and Troy, I just wantto finish off and just share
(25:27):
with our listeners the perfectpiece of dialogue I heard a real
estate agent do at a listingpresentation in a marketplace
where an owner wanted more thanit was worth because there was
another agent that had gone inthere and over-promised it.
And I just want to show youwhat beautiful dialogue he used
(25:51):
to get the listing.
He shared it with me.
He said to the owner look, I'veshown you comparable sales and
those comparable sales are 1.8%to $2 million.
I've shown you those.
You've indicated to me thatyou're hoping to get at least
(26:12):
$2.2 million and you'veindicated to me that you've had
another agent that has said thatthey've got a buyer that will
buy this property at $2.3million.
I want to let you know that$2.2 million and $2.3 million is
not out of the question, but Ineed you to be aware that if we
(26:32):
got that price, that would be anextraordinary number and I
would be singing it from the topof the mountain how proud I
would be.
And I need you to know that fornow, my comparables are going
away.
I need to focus on finding abuyer that has the same opinion
(26:52):
on value as you, and I want tolet you know the best chance of
that happening is in the firstweek, because there's a hard
buyer out there that might bewaiting.
But I need you to know that ifwe're not getting engagement in
that week or so, we are going toneed to realign based on the
feedback.
That realignment might behigher, but most likely be lower
(27:18):
, based on what you've showed me, on what you want and my
comparables.
So what I'd love to do is toset a date a week from now,
after we've had a number ofinspections, where I can speak
to you with confidence on whatwe've got.
How does that sound?
And I just thought to myself.
I said to him I gave him thebenefit of the doubt to try and
(27:41):
see if it was out there, but atthe same time I also told him
that we would have to relook atat things if it wasn't achieved
right.
And I think the big differenceis having the transparency to
actually give the benefit of thedoubt.
We're going for more but at thesame time help an owner
understand there is a strongpossibility we might have to
(28:03):
realign your price yeah, yeah,and I word alignment, tom,
because a lot of the old agentjargon is conditioning.
John McGrath (28:12):
Conditioning is a terrible, it's a disgusting word
, john.
Yeah, a terrible word, and theconnotations are I'll tell them
a high figure and then I'll tellthem lots of other stuff to
bring them back to earth.
You know vendor alignment is.
You know where's the market at.
If you're going to sell, ifyou've got shares on the share
market and they're trading thisafternoon on the ASX at $21,
(28:33):
there's no point putting one upthere for $28 and thinking
you're going to get a bid.
You've got to be in the money,as they say, and it's the same
in real estate.
If you want to get competitivetension, you've got to be in the
money where people see value,and that gives you the
opportunity to createcompetitive tension.
But we don't condition, we don'tmake up buyers, we don't make
up comments.
(28:53):
You know we act with integrityand that's where I think the
future is.
That's where you know radicaltransparency is all about.
So look, I know we're preachingsomewhat to the converted, but
I know even the good agents andeven members of your great gym,
tom, you, they'll say to me yeah, but John, I get it, but I just
find it hard because I want toget the listing and I know two
(29:14):
other agents have told them aprice that's really inflated.
So I get all that.
But just work hard on your craftto get your words right, get
your energy right and you canovercome it.
And I'm delighted to say allthe top agents certainly, that
I'm working closely with, theyhave a total commitment to
integrity and they don't havethe desire to run a business
(29:36):
that's based on lies.
They don't have the time towaste with it and they've built
the credibility that theirowners are listening to them.
So, anyway, hopefully there'ssome good dialogue in there.
I loved your dialogue, tom,from your man there and let's
just-.
Tom Panos (29:51):
John, between realestatecom domain RP data,
the first category where yousaid, where they just don't know
values.
I mean, I totally get it.
If you're selling that $160million house in Vaucluse, that
gets this.
I understand that there's norecommended retail price for
that, but I think there's only asmall number of real estate
(30:14):
agents that can genuinely say,in the 2025 year, with all the
resources, including what AI isdoing and the beautiful input
that Troy had, there is very fewpeople that can honestly say,
oh, I don't know what it's worth, I didn't have the right
information.
(30:34):
Every agent should have greatproduct knowledge to at least to
be able they should be able toget a rough idea.
But John Troy, an absolutepleasure.
I actually think, on themarketplace I auctioned on
Saturday, I hadn't auctioned fora while.
12 sold out of 12.
(30:55):
To me it seems that there's alot of.
To me I can sense buyers arethinking we're on a rate going
down and I actually think thatthis market is a good
marketplace for agents to beoperating.
It's a great market.
I spoke to Ethan this morningand Jason and they said to me
(31:15):
they wish the Melbourne marketstayed exactly the way it is.
They said stocks coming in andstocks being sold.
There are no complaints.
John McGrath (31:24):
But, tommy, 12 out of 12, it doesn't get any
better than that.
Well done to you and all youragents that you work with in the
inner west.
Great result, but that speaksvolumes.
And again, you know I've hadconversations in the last few
days, generally not with ourguys but with just people in the
industry, and they're tellingme how tough it is, you know.
So every time someone tells youhow tough it is, just realise
there's someone around thecorner in a postcode nearby
(31:46):
doing 12 out of 12.
All right, guys, have a goodone, have a great week.
See you later.
Thanks John, thanks Tim.
See you, tommy.
Tom Panos, john McGrath, troy, malcolm, million
Dollar Agent the podcast.
By the way, gentlemen, I've gotto tell you I was listening to
some other podcasts the otherday and I went on there and had
a look at a number of episodes,the podcast and then I just
thought let's just go binge onthese different podcasts, see
(00:22):
how many they are.
I actually we've done listen,we've done pretty good to be
going for Troy.
It is over a decade, isn't it?
Yeah, 2013,.
We kicked off.
If you actually have a look atit, there is like there's, I've
got to say, podcasting hasexploded to the point that even
people that aren't in educationI mean everyone's got a podcast,
(00:44):
that even people that aren't ineducation, I mean everyone's
got a podcast.
We've gone the distance.
But I think, troy, we're theonly ones that aren't making
money out of podcasting.
That's true.
John McGrath (00:56):
Troy.
I've seen a clipping to Tom.
The other day, while he wasoverseas, there was an article
about an Australian podcast thatjust sold for $8.5 million.
I said to Tom what are we doingwrong?
No, we're not doing anythingwrong.
Actually, We've got a loyalband of followers who are
listening right now and weappreciate you all and we love
doing it and we enjoy In fact,today is going to be a great one
(01:19):
, because this is an importanttopic right around Australia but
we enjoy what we do, so, eventhough we do it for love, not
money, that's okay too.
Troy Malcolm (01:30):
I was going to say we've got the first part right,
john, we started a podcast, wejust haven't monetized it.
What do they say If you?
John McGrath (01:36):
follow your passion, the money will follow.
Well, let's see about that 10years later, tom, today, I know
you want to talk about, and sodo I.
Let's call it underquoting.
It's a scourge of the industry.
Certainly, the various NCATsand VCATs and so forth, and OFTs
the regulatory bodies are rightnow, as they should be, putting
(02:00):
it under the microscope.
What are we referring to?
We're referring to agents whosystematically not occasionally,
but systematically push aproperty out into the market at
an artificial price that itcan't be bought at, to attract
more interest.
And there are going to be a lotof dire consequences, because
(02:23):
all the consumer bodies aroundthe country are getting
complaints on a regular basisand they're sick and tired of
the real estate industry goingout there with outdated
practices that lack transparency, that waste people's time and
money and so am I, by the way.
I've been banging on this allthree of us have for the best
part of that decade, I think.
(02:43):
I'm sure, if you look at thefirst few episodes, we probably
spoke about the bad practices ofthe industry.
So I think today, tommy, we'regoing to talk about what the
hell is underquoting.
Why does it happen?
Why does it not only happenoccasionally?
Why does it seem to be aconstant thorn in the agents?
Because if you don't get thisright, if you don't deal with
(03:04):
this, there are licenses andbusinesses that will go to the
wall, because I think enough'senough and I think the governing
bodies are sort of coming tothat same conclusion.
So we don't want anyone that'slistening here to suffer from
that negative consequence, oranyone in the industry, even if
they're not listening.
I mean, I love the industry andpretty much all the real estate
(03:27):
agents that I know I reallylove, and even the people I like
and respect.
Tom, some of them have got thisbad practice because they're
just not sure how to change thehabit or how to do it properly,
how to deal with it.
What do you think?
Tom Panos (03:39):
So there's three, john and Troy, three things in
real estate.
This is my 39th year, threeyears in real estate that have
bugged me Overpricing, wherethey deceive an owner on what
price they're going to get this.
Conditioning, where they go inmanipulation, no market buyer
(04:02):
intel, no intelligence, and theyuse a sledgehammer to crunch an
owner.
And then the third one is theunderquoting.
So if those three thingsweren't happening, I would say
we work in the perfect industry.
We meet amazing people, we addvalue, we change lives and we
can end up building aneffortless, lucrative, fun life.
(04:24):
But the under quoting out of thethree seems to be the big
spotlight, and we are talking,of course, specifically about
markets that are auction focusedmarketplaces.
That's where it's relevant.
So let's kick it off, troy,john, firstly, I think it's
(04:44):
important to define, becausethere are times where people
walk away feeling like thatagent has underquoted, but they
haven't underquoted what it waswas.
It was a result that wentbeyond that was expecting.
So I think what we should lookat is what is underquoting and
what is not underquoting in aresult.
So let's touch on that.
John McGrath (05:07):
So, tommy, I think look, as I said up front, this
is what we're talking about isthe systematic, premeditated
approach to agents saying youknow, I'm going to tell them
it's worth 1.2.
But then, when the buyersarrive, I'm going to tell them
they might buy it for a million,and that someone you know
thinks that's a good idea, andsomeone that does this well,
(05:29):
actually, if you do it once it'sbad.
But this is as opposed tosomeone.
Why do I think?
Troy, underquoting and whereverunderquoting is happening,
there's probably overquoting.
The same agents are telling thevendors, often an inflated
price, yes, and then they'regoing to the market at a lesser
price, and often not just alesser price than the inflated
(05:49):
one, a lesser price than thereal market value.
That's why you end up with this.
You know, 20% gap.
I think there's three Troy,there's three avenues.
Some agents, their productknowledge is not as good as it
needs to be, should be, and theyget it wrong.
Well, you might say.
Well, you can't really comedown too hard and someone gets
it wrong.
Well, yes, I can, because if abrain surgeon screwed up because
(06:13):
they hadn't read the manual orthe books or been to the course
that they needed to get to.
That's pretty serious.
Real estate agents have anobligation and a responsibility
to be up to speed.
You know as much as practicableon their product knowledge.
But that is I think that's thefirst case is sometimes people
get it wrong, and I guess ifoccasionally you get it wrong,
(06:34):
not the end of the world.
The next one I think that we'rereally going to look at is what
I mentioned before a systematic, premeditated underquoting.
Tom Panos (06:43):
The intent was there, wasn't it?
John A hundred percent.
John McGrath (06:46):
And these are the people that know what it's worth
tell the vendor more, tell thebuyers less, highly illegal
process in pretty much everywell, in every part of Australia
, as it should be, and NewZealand and you know.
Certainly I'm not sureelsewhere in the world, but I
know a lot of Kiwis watch this.
So I think that's just peoplethat have been taught to do it
(07:10):
the wrong way, that haven'tfigured out this is a bad
practice, or people that thinkit's a good practice to win
business and then you know sortof create a competitive auction.
And I think the third one isprobably good agents, good
people, but they know that theirmajor competitors are going in
high and they kind of haven'tfigured out how do you have the
conversation without losing alisting.
(07:31):
So they're not maliciousintending, but they just haven't
honed their skills.
So I think the first one youcan dispense with is just get
really good on product knowledge.
You've got to know what's sold,what's for sale, what offers
are coming in on properties,what's sold off market.
(07:51):
That's just really critical,troy.
Here's where I think theinteresting part happens is what
do you do when you know thatcompetitors in your marketplace
are going to?
And let's just for today, let'scall a property market
comparables around a million andwe know competitors are saying
one one and we know that a lotof those same agents, if they
(08:14):
list the property, they'requoting 900 plus this kind of
craziness.
And, as you know, tommy, someof them are even coming up with
look, I'm going to put this onthe agreement because I have to
by law and I can't quite Allthat sort of rubbish.
My God, just learn to tell thetruth.
So I think, troy, there's somedialogue here and I know you and
I and Tom teach this a lot.
(08:36):
I think it's important A is tobe able to curate the right
recent comparables and Irecommend three to five.
Any more than five becomesconfusing and suggests that I
mean CoreLogic could give me 30.
I actually want an expert thatcan refine down a list of recent
sales that look a bit like mine, that can actually match and
(08:57):
give me comparative reason as towhy it might be seen by the
buyers.
So I take the pressure off, asyou know, up front, troy.
I say Troy, you know, here'sthe good news we don't need to
finalise price today.
In fact, I'll go a step further, troy.
I don't think we should belooking to finalise price today,
because there's one thingneither you nor I know as we sit
(09:17):
here today is what's it reallyworth.
What we can look at is whatother similar properties that
are on similar locations andhave similar improvements and
similar land size, what thesesort of properties have been
fetching in the market to date,and also what other properties
similar to yours perhaps mightbe being offered for.
So I find, up front, if youtake the pressure off this
(09:40):
decision to have to determineand finalise a price today, it
actually helps your process,troy.
Troy Malcolm (09:47):
Yeah, I agree, john, and most of the time when
it comes to agents winninglistings on price, you can
guarantee their strategy andproven track record probably
doesn't equal the skill theyhave.
It's actually interesting, tomand John.
I have a couple of friends thatare trying to buy a property at
the moment and the agent thatthey're trying to purchase it
(10:10):
from has been fantasticthroughout the whole campaign
and has been really clear withthe transparency around what
other properties that aresimilar to theirs that they're
going to purchase has sold for.
Here's the interesting thingthe buyers right now are so
savvy.
Here's the interesting thingthe buyers right now are so
savvy.
They've taken that informationfrom the agent and they've put
(10:30):
it into AI and to see what elseis selling in the area.
So, john, you know how youmentioned RP Data and CoreLogic
and Cotality can produce allthose recent sales for you.
The buyers are savvy enough totake that information, put it
into AI and then generate whatthey deem is the appropriate
price, and I just think we'reheading down this pathway For
(10:52):
the agents that keep gettingthis wrong.
You're going to get found out.
Technology is enabling so muchmore information and really
being transparent around thatinformation and giving the
clients the really valuableinformation.
If you're even 10% out, you'regoing to come undone, so I think
transparency wins here everytime, even speaking, troy.
Tom Panos (11:15):
that's brilliant, and I don't know how my brain
hadn't come up to correlateusing AI there, because every
day we're finding a differentway to use AI to make our lives
better.
And there's just another one.
But I can also see the AI beingable to do the same thing and
showing the vendor or saying hey, I need you to know that this
(11:37):
is what we're doing.
They're putting your address inthere and they're saying give
me the most relevant sales.
Relevant sales, yeah.
Troy Malcolm (11:43):
So Tom, I did this .
I did this on the weekendbecause I kind of thought, oh,
that's interesting.
When they said it to me Ihadn't kind of clicked on, but I
did it and I had a look on theweekend and it was the results
that were happening on theweekend.
So it actually grabbedrealestatecom and Domain's
results from the weekend andactually spat out results back
to make the sales like to theminute, not just within the last
three months, it was like fromthe weekend, which I thought was
(12:06):
amazing.
Tom Panos (12:11):
Jordan, john Troy I want to continue on this
conversation that John startedabout, like you know, the three
groups.
Let's talk.
So let's try and come up andhelp our listeners, because
every one of our listeners isprobably our listeners.
We make the assumption ofpeople that want to do the right
thing, they've got the rightintent, they've got the right
(12:33):
transparency.
But I, troy and John, I havegood real estate agents that say
, tom, but you need tounderstand every vendor that
goes onto the market is alwaysbeing optimistic, regardless.
Number one, they're going totry and go for that 2% to 5%
premium anyway, right?
Everyone thinks their house isworth more.
Everyone thinks their kid'sbetter looking than what it is.
(12:55):
We accept all of that.
But in addition to that,unfortunately in our industry,
every area does seem to have atleast one Larry the liar, and
that is one that goes in thereand says, oh look, I'll get you
the 1.2.
So when you've got the doubleeffect of an owner being
optimistic and then also a Larrythe liar, then you've got good
(13:17):
quality people that need a wayto be able to sort of give that
vendor the opportunity to go fortheir aim price but at the same
time have the conversation in atransparent way to say if this
happens, we're going to do this,if this happens, we're going to
do this.
And on your point, john, whereyou talk about having the
(13:39):
pressure off, because a reallygood real estate agent will take
into account the buyer intel,the feedback and all the stuff
that happens after the home goeson the market.
And, as you said, john,sometimes you're adjusting down
but sometimes you're adjustingup, because if you have a
campaign where you end upgetting 70 groups come through
(14:02):
in week one and 15 people askfor a contract and you know you
went out there thinking, hey, itwas 1 to 1.1, you might need to
re-look at it and say, hey,listen, we've got so much
interest, we better accept thatwe might actually have to start
educating these buyers andre-look at the sales again,
(14:22):
because that happens a lot ofthe times as well.
John McGrath (14:25):
Yeah, totally, which is where I mean agents as
wordsmiths.
So number one is you've got tohave an incredibly solid
foundation of product knowledgeso you know the facts.
Two is you have to be smartenough to realise there are
always exceptions.
So we've all seen, andhopefully experienced for
ourselves, where we've done sucha damn good job.
(14:46):
We've got eight buyers at anauction and it's gone for 20%
above reserve.
So we know that.
And, by the way, you should beadjusting that going forward if
you're aware of the priceescalation.
So I think that's cool.
So on that example, I wastalking about Troy.
So you know it's probablycomparable to saying a million,
a lot of dirty agents are goingto be saying Troy.
(15:07):
So you know it's probablycomparable to saying a million,
a lot of dirty agents are goingto be saying, oh, we're going to
quote 900, and yet they've toldthe vendor 1-1.
And the vendor probably wouldlike to hear 1-1.
In fact, they might pop a biton top and say, well, you know,
I'm a seller at 1,150,000.
So how do you deal with that?
You say you know, troy,$1,150,000 would be an
(15:29):
extraordinary result.
In fact it probably would breakrecords and I would love to
break records if they'reachievable.
I have at the moment a lot ofbuyers I'm working with.
In fact, I did some researchbefore I came here and, knowing
what you'd told me beforehandthat you would like to get in
the early millions I've goteight or nine buyers right now
that have got a budget of $1,1to $ 1.2.
And if you put me to work today, the first people I'm going to
call are those people with thebudget at the price range that
(15:53):
you're trying to achieve.
I'm going to get them throughin the short period of time.
Initially, and one of two thingsis going to happen, troy, we're
going to achieve that sort ofresult that would break that
record and we're going to getfeedback, which is great.
Or we that sort of result thatwould break that record and
we're going to get feedback,which is great.
Or we're going to get feedbackto suggest that we're not
fishing where the fish are andwe need to actually adjust our
sites to actually createinterest and create competitive
(16:14):
tension.
So you just have an honestconversation.
But again, you know some peopletalk about you don't want to,
you know, steal their dreams ortake away their hope, and I get
that but you also don't wantthem going into a campaign
expecting that oh, oh yeah, 115,I reckon that's a goer, we'll
achieve that and then you waittill the first open home and
then you either quote what theywant and you're burning the
(16:35):
market, or you then quotesomething way lower and you're
committing an illegal act inmany jurisdictions.
So I think you've just got tolearn to have those honest
conversations and have productknowledge that gives you a good
footing and have a buyerdatabase across a whole range of
buyers so you can startbringing people through at the
(16:56):
top end of their goal and theirdream price and then get some
feedback.
Troy.
Tom Panos (17:03):
That's beautifully said, John.
Can you extend on that?
Troy Malcolm (17:06):
Yeah, I was just going to say John and Tom.
You know, john, you justmentioned that they're having
that pool of buyers, those hotbuyers that you've been working
really closely with, to get themthrough very early on in the
campaign, like within the firstcouple of days of listing it.
They will be really transparent, especially if you have an
existing relationship with them.
I think if you go out there andjust try to pitch a price and
(17:32):
wait for the first open forinspection, you're kind of
already behind the eight ball.
You've really got to be infront of it and make sure that
you're getting really valuablefeedback, that's transparent,
from those buyers and then takeit straight to the owners and
say, hey, listen, the great newsis we got really valuable
feedback.
The great news also is that wemay need to adjust our price up
or down, and that's even beforethe first open for inspection or
before the first set ofappointments.
So I think, john, you nailed itin regards to having that pool
(17:54):
of buyers.
Now what's the right number,depending on your area?
20, 30.
I think, john, some of our bestagents have a pool of 50 buyers
that they work with at any onetime, based on the volume of the
market that they push through.
But 20 to 30 of those hotbuyers is always the goal.
So you know exactly the pricepoint, the type of property, the
configuration, but also thelifestyle attributes as well
that they're looking for.
Tom Panos (18:17):
John just jump in.
It's interesting, troy, becauseI ask a lot of agents, when
they're making that adjustmenton the guide, because they don't
have the buyer intel, do theywait till the end of week one or
do they actually do it byhaving a preview inspection with
buyers that they've already gotbefore they actually start
(18:39):
marketing?
And I get I get a mixed message.
I get some say we like toactually try and address price
before we actually launch onweek one, after we've had our
buyer intel.
I have other agents that say,tom, we need to sometimes go
through week one and week twobecause many of our vendors are
going to say that we haven't hadthe first week of the campaign.
(19:04):
And I get all of that.
I've said it to you off camerabefore.
John.
I've got to give credit to Tarun, one of your agents, who's done
exactly that.
We had a situation it's alisting that's a friend of mine.
He was managing it for him Atthe last week of the campaign.
They've got no buyers.
The feedback they were givingthe vendor didn't want to adjust
(19:27):
.
The vendor rings me up Tom,should I just cancel my auction,
right?
Tarun is saying that maybe ifwe adjust the price and we add
another two weeks because itdoes take time, sometimes for a
price, to filter on to aninspection.
More buyers get excited by thetime they get their lawyers
involved.
They extended the campaign bytwo weeks and in the end the
(19:50):
owner ended up getting more thanwhat he was originally hoping
to get Right.
It created competitive tensionand it went off.
John McGrath (20:00):
Yeah, I think there's.
And Tarun, he's a freak of anagent.
I think we saw a stat the otherday I'll send it to you Tommy
16 of the top 20 sales inStrathfield he's done which is
phenomenal 80% of the top sales.
He's incredible.
But there's a couple of thingsthat come to mind just want to
make sure our audience capturesthis.
Number one is you need to havethe buyers, as Troy said, across
(20:21):
several price ranges to be ableto early on.
Now I'm not talking and it didsound like some of that feedback
that the vendor took was at thetail end of his campaign.
But in an ideal world youactually want if there's
feedback to the contrary thatsuggests that you're fishing
where the fish aren't and you'regoing in too high, in an ideal
(20:41):
world you actually want that upfront.
So if you can get off marketfirst week before you actually
have any opens, even before ithits the website, potentially
get some of your most qualifiedbuyers at the upper end through.
And if the feedback is you guysare kidding, you're going too
high, it's not worth that andit's qualified commentary from
people that are in the marketthat really they know what's
(21:05):
going on.
I think that's really critical.
So urgency off market early on,I think, is really critical.
And the second thing is, youknow, at the listing,
presentation or soon afteryou've got to say Tom, I just
want to talk to you about how Ithink this kind of process
generally works best.
I'm sort of a bit of anunfiltered frequent
communication guy and I'm happyto do it via text if that works
(21:27):
better.
You're a busy guy, but what Ifind is, every time I have a
quality conversation withsomeone who's in the market, who
knows what they're talkingabout, that's either inquired or
come through your property.
I like to share as much of thatwith you because this is a real
partnership and if I hold backon information it's probably not
in your best interest.
So if you're good with it, I'lljust sort of keep you updated
(21:50):
on the commentary.
And I've never in 40 years ofreal estate had someone say no,
don't tell me.
No, actually once I have.
I sold a property in BellevueHill in Kambala Road, many, many
, many moons ago and this guysaid to me and it was true he
said send me a text once a weekand I'll see you at the auction.
And we sold it, fortunately,but that was all he wanted.
(22:11):
I tried to contact him and hesaid didn't you hear what I said
?
I don't want to talk to you.
Send me a text once a week andI'll see you at the auction.
And fortunately we got away.
Tom Panos (22:22):
Sounds like it.
Ryan Serhant said I don't knowwhat it is with billionaires.
All they want to do is send youa text message.
They don't want to talkanything.
They feel like if I get talkingit's not going to be in my best
interest.
John McGrath (22:32):
Well, it's close to the mark because this guy was
extremely wealthy and verysuccessful and he's just one of
those guys he knew.
He said I don't want to bebothered, just don't email me,
don't call me, send me a text.
So anyway, they're theexception.
But everyone else says, yeah,yeah, keep me posted, it's
important.
So I think that's really acouple of critical pieces that
(22:54):
you get permission upfront tolet them know the commentary
along the way, you get buyersthrough early that have the
capacity to pay the top end ofthe market, and you get feedback
early.
So preferably you can get itsold by the auction date.
But Tarun did the right thing,as he always does.
If he feels that the weight ofevidence is starting to suggest,
(23:17):
the closer we get to theauction, that we're a little bit
high, let's adjust it.
Let's just take our medicine,adjust it, push the auction back
a week or two and I know, troy,you've had a number of your top
agents who have adopted thesame.
It's not a strategy but it's aflexibility within a sales
campaign to do it.
And of course, Troy, you've gotthe other opportunity and I
(23:37):
know a lot of your agency, yourauction for it, mcgrath as well
bring auctions forward.
Sometimes you get a whoosh ofenthusiasm in the first week of
the campaign.
You've got seven contracts out,everyone wants to make an offer
, vendor is keen to sell, andyou say, well, we're going to
bring this damn auction forwardtwo weeks and we'll do it next
Saturday.
So I think you've got to beflexible as an agent.
(23:57):
But what you never do is tell anuntruth.
Don't tell someone somethingthat's not real.
Yes, agree to them, it'll be agreat outcome.
Yes, tell them, you'll try andget it.
Tell them you've got buyers atthat level You'll be getting
through as long as it's true.
But there's no need.
You know, you just don't wantto be going and telling.
(24:17):
And imagine if it was a memberof your family, tom.
You know, like someone youcared for your parents or your
best friend or whatever one ofyour kids.
You know, I know you're soclose with your kids, tommy.
Imagine they went to buy theirfirst home and you know an
agent's quoting 600 goes for 800and they're devastated.
And they come home and they'reemotional.
I mean, it's just, it's a badvibe, man, you just don't do
(24:40):
that, tony.
Tom Panos (24:41):
Listen, I have got a family case study on a real
estate issue about a year agoand he's also been negligent.
The vendor, my friend.
He had his property valued.
The agent was adamant, I'mgoing to get you this price.
He went off and bought anotherproperty.
Right, he's bought this otherproperty thinking to himself.
(25:05):
There ends up being a $400,000differential between the hope
price and the sell price.
And listen, you know a lot ofpeople $400,000 is game changing
in their life.
It changes the direction oftheir life significantly.
But, john and Troy, I just wantto finish off and just share
(25:27):
with our listeners the perfectpiece of dialogue I heard a real
estate agent do at a listingpresentation in a marketplace
where an owner wanted more thanit was worth because there was
another agent that had gone inthere and over-promised it.
And I just want to show youwhat beautiful dialogue he used
(25:51):
to get the listing.
He shared it with me.
He said to the owner look, I'veshown you comparable sales and
those comparable sales are 1.8%to $2 million.
I've shown you those.
You've indicated to me thatyou're hoping to get at least
(26:12):
$2.2 million and you'veindicated to me that you've had
another agent that has said thatthey've got a buyer that will
buy this property at $2.3million.
I want to let you know that$2.2 million and $2.3 million is
not out of the question, but Ineed you to be aware that if we
(26:32):
got that price, that would be anextraordinary number and I
would be singing it from the topof the mountain how proud I
would be.
And I need you to know that fornow, my comparables are going
away.
I need to focus on finding abuyer that has the same opinion
(26:52):
on value as you, and I want tolet you know the best chance of
that happening is in the firstweek, because there's a hard
buyer out there that might bewaiting.
But I need you to know that ifwe're not getting engagement in
that week or so, we are going toneed to realign based on the
feedback.
That realignment might behigher, but most likely be lower
(27:18):
, based on what you've showed me, on what you want and my
comparables.
So what I'd love to do is toset a date a week from now,
after we've had a number ofinspections, where I can speak
to you with confidence on whatwe've got.
How does that sound?
And I just thought to myself.
I said to him I gave him thebenefit of the doubt to try and
(27:41):
see if it was out there, but atthe same time I also told him
that we would have to relook atat things if it wasn't achieved
right.
And I think the big differenceis having the transparency to
actually give the benefit of thedoubt.
We're going for more but at thesame time help an owner
understand there is a strongpossibility we might have to
(28:03):
realign your price yeah, yeah,and I word alignment, tom,
because a lot of the old agentjargon is conditioning.
John McGrath (28:12):
Conditioning is a terrible, it's a disgusting word
, john.
Yeah, a terrible word, and theconnotations are I'll tell them
a high figure and then I'll tellthem lots of other stuff to
bring them back to earth.
You know vendor alignment is.
You know where's the market at.
If you're going to sell, ifyou've got shares on the share
market and they're trading thisafternoon on the ASX at $21,
(28:33):
there's no point putting one upthere for $28 and thinking
you're going to get a bid.
You've got to be in the money,as they say, and it's the same
in real estate.
If you want to get competitivetension, you've got to be in the
money where people see value,and that gives you the
opportunity to createcompetitive tension.
But we don't condition, we don'tmake up buyers, we don't make
up comments.
(28:53):
You know we act with integrityand that's where I think the
future is.
That's where you know radicaltransparency is all about.
So look, I know we're preachingsomewhat to the converted, but
I know even the good agents andeven members of your great gym,
tom, you, they'll say to me yeah, but John, I get it, but I just
find it hard because I want toget the listing and I know two
(29:14):
other agents have told them aprice that's really inflated.
So I get all that.
But just work hard on your craftto get your words right, get
your energy right and you canovercome it.
And I'm delighted to say allthe top agents certainly, that
I'm working closely with, theyhave a total commitment to
integrity and they don't havethe desire to run a business
(29:36):
that's based on lies.
They don't have the time towaste with it and they've built
the credibility that theirowners are listening to them.
So, anyway, hopefully there'ssome good dialogue in there.
I loved your dialogue, tom,from your man there and let's
just-.
Tom Panos (29:51):
John, between realestatecom domain RP data,
the first category where yousaid, where they just don't know
values.
I mean, I totally get it.
If you're selling that $160million house in Vaucluse, that
gets this.
I understand that there's norecommended retail price for
that, but I think there's only asmall number of real estate
(30:14):
agents that can genuinely say,in the 2025 year, with all the
resources, including what AI isdoing and the beautiful input
that Troy had, there is very fewpeople that can honestly say,
oh, I don't know what it's worth, I didn't have the right
information.
(30:34):
Every agent should have greatproduct knowledge to at least to
be able they should be able toget a rough idea.
But John Troy, an absolutepleasure.
I actually think, on themarketplace I auctioned on
Saturday, I hadn't auctioned fora while.
12 sold out of 12.
(30:55):
To me it seems that there's alot of.
To me I can sense buyers arethinking we're on a rate going
down and I actually think thatthis market is a good
marketplace for agents to beoperating.
It's a great market.
I spoke to Ethan this morningand Jason and they said to me
(31:15):
they wish the Melbourne marketstayed exactly the way it is.
They said stocks coming in andstocks being sold.
There are no complaints.
John McGrath (31:24):
But, tommy, 12 out of 12, it doesn't get any
better than that.
Well done to you and all youragents that you work with in the
inner west.
Great result, but that speaksvolumes.
And again, you know I've hadconversations in the last few
days, generally not with ourguys but with just people in the
industry, and they're tellingme how tough it is, you know.
So every time someone tells youhow tough it is, just realise
there's someone around thecorner in a postcode nearby
(31:46):
doing 12 out of 12.
All right, guys, have a goodone, have a great week.
See you later.
Thanks John, thanks Tim.
See you, tommy.
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